Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom since I've left my roots back home.
Speaker 2
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. Emilee here, and I am just feeling so vibrant and alive these days. I hope you are too. I'm really digging the quiet darkness of winter coming in. Our family has been going to sleep hilariously early lately and just being super cuddly, playing lots of games, getting lots of sleep, drinking hot chocolate. It's been so nice. You know, being a Florida girl, I used to really loathe the winter. But in recent years, as I've come to appreciate the seasons, I've really learned to meet my own rest, my own phases, and, yeah, I've come to quite enjoy it. I've been thinking a lot lately about the phases of our lives as girls and women and about this concept of initiation and how truly, improperly the majority of us have been initiated along the way. If you've been listening to this show for a while, you're probably familiar with the blood mysteries, these rites of passages that we cross as women and girls throughout our life. And here's the thing that's so important to understand. Whatever happens as you cross the threshold into the next phase of your womanhood, like say the first time you get your blood, however you are treated, however you are talked to, how you are taught, is society grooming you for how to be in order to be accepted into your household, your culture, your society at large? And what do we all know about that, right? We're taught menarche is unimportant, even disgusting, to keep it secret, plug it up, don't talk about it, ignore it. And that's what I would call an unconscious initiation. It's still an initiation because whatever happens in these rites of passage is the initiation, but it's toxic. And it all happens on a continuum. Right? Because however we internalize the messaging of our initiations, well, that will set the foundation of the next phase of our womanhood, which after our blood will be sex. And then however that initiation goes, sets the tone for the next one, which is our births with our children. You get what I'm saying? So if the initiations keep teaching us that we are small, unimportant, broken, disposable, unworthy, and that the messaging we need to take on in order to be accepted, in order to get love and approval from the culture we're in, then that is what we come to understand and accept as a survival strategy in order to belong. This is something I'm constantly unpacking and exploring with my dear friends, Kristin Hauser and Nancy Lucina, who teach the Blood Mysteries School under the FBS umbrella. And, after much creative discussion, we have decided to offer something that we've never done before. We are having a live three day event that is totally free that we're calling the Initiated Woman. And it's going to be all about soaking in the sacred secrets of womanhood that no one has ever told you. It's about proper reinitiation. It's about you, yes, you, deserving honor, deserving celebration, and deserving to be initiated through a container of conscious women. I'm going to drop the link to reserve your spot in the show notes below. Again, it's totally free, Just something that feels really important for us to be offering to you, my listeners. I've done a lot of this reinitiation work in my life personally, and it has been absolutely paramount to me creating a new framework to resourcing myself from a space of self love so that I can hold and can do all that I am. I'm really excited. It begins January sixteenth, and I hope I see you there. Alright. So today on the show, I have Winona, a young and radiant mother from Australia who will share about her initiation into motherhood, which thankfully was entirely and powerfully perfect. Winona speaks to how she transformed from a selfish maiden to a confident mother, sure of herself and her choices. She walks us through the work and presence it took to move through the fears and prepare herself for birth. With the support of a radical birth keeper, a friend, and her partner, she gave birth to her baby girl and a new powerhouse of confidence within herself was formed. Winona's story is such an epic example of the creative spark that is ignited through an intact physiological birth and the true potential that women have when they are respected and honored during these sacred passages. Enjoy. Alright. Welcome to the show, Winona. Happy to have you here.
Speaker 3
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited.
Speaker 2
Thanks for getting up super extra early this morning since you are on the other side of the world.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 2
Alright. So I love to pitch this question. Who were you before you came before you became a mother? And kinda just tell us a little bit about who is Winona pre motherhood. What does your life look like? And then that will bring us into, this pregnancy.
Speaker 3
I feel like pre motherhood well, as everyone who, you know, is a maiden and then transitions into mother knows that there's definitely that aspect of selfishness, carelessness, and like, it was all very fun. And I had, you know, I was having a lot of fun, but I think I always felt that there was like a little part of me that was maybe missing or even yeah, unfulfilled. And as I reflect now on this whole journey, the key thing that really stands out to me is how much more confident and sure of myself I am. I feel like that was always lacking when I was a maiden and my journey into motherhood and the path that I knew I had to take has ignited this confidence and sureness and certainty within me. And life just feels very clear now. And it's like, yeah, I can see clearly now. And yeah, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2
I love it. And I was, I, it's really cool that you're saying that. Cause I was literally just writing about this before we got on here, that motherhood is designed for that, what you just described. But as we know, that isn't the common result of birth and postpartum because of what's happening in industrial birth. Right? Because women are emerging broken, fractured, separated, shut down, drugged up, all the stuff that we know. It's a rare day that I've ever witnessed a woman go through that process and be like, I'm so much more confident now. I'm so
Speaker 3
much more
Speaker 2
in my body. But like with what you just said, I see that all the time, especially when first time mother's free birth. It's so cool.
Speaker 3
Totally. And like I know as well, a lot of people they'll go down the like medicalized route of pregnancy for their first and then have the realization like, oh no, this is like effed up. I need to go, you know, the free birth, path. And for me it was like, but I don't want my first pregnancy and my first birth to be like a trial run, you know, like I need to do this now. And like, of course there was those little fears coming up in me, but I just knew that there wasn't going to be any other way. And also just to touch on what you were saying as well as like all the confidence and everything that you gain, it also is an opportunity for healing and very deep healing. And I feel like that's what a lot of people are missing out on as well.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, they're actually getting more hurt. They're having more, you know, stuff to heal. Totally. Okay. So at what point in this whole journey are you aligning with this sovereign birth idea? Is it before you're pregnant or does it show up, like how do you get introduced to this whole thing?
Speaker 3
My pregnancy was a surprise and once we decided like, yep, we're gonna, you know, go ahead with this, I think it was about, you know, mid first trimester or something. I really started to sit with like, okay, wow. In, you know, eight, nine, ten months time, I'm gonna be giving birth. And, I previously was studying natural medicine. And so this, I guess, world of like what people would call, you know, a bit more alternative was always, well, not always, but for a very big part of the last few years of my life was, I guess, who I was and how I lived. And so my thinking was like, if if when I get sick, the first place that I go is, you know, to a naturopath or I tune in with myself first and and I don't go to a doctor first, you know, like it's not my first port of call, then when I'm pregnant and when I'm gonna be giving birth, why all of a sudden would I turn around and be like, oh yeah, I'm gonna go to a doctor and I'm gonna go to a hospital? Like it just didn't make sense to me and it didn't feel right to me. But in saying that, prior to becoming pregnant, I'd never even thought about how I would do any of this before. Like motherhood just wasn't really on my radar. And I didn't really have many friends, you know, that had gone down this path and you just hear all the birth stories and you have that conditioned fear within you. So I think the deepest part of me knew that this was the path that I was going to take, but I didn't really know how I was going to navigate that. And then a friend came to me and she's like, Oh, have you heard of this person? You should follow her on Instagram. And I, I jumped on and I followed her and it just so happened that in the coming months she was hosting a, sovereign birth session type thing. And I was like to my partner, oh, we need to join this. Like, I think it's going to be really interesting and I think we'll learn a lot and it will give us a bit more confidence. And we joined her session and basically she just talked everything for e birth, everything like wild pregnancy. She really illuminated like all of the, you know, awful things that are going on in the medicalized birthing industry. And after that call, me and my partner just looked at each other and were like, oh my God, like how amazing was that? Of course, this is the path we have to take. And it just really excited us. And yeah, that was kind of the instigator for it all. So in forever she ended up being my birth keeper as well. This woman. So, yeah. So it was all just, it was all really perfect and aligned and now she's a really dear friend. So,
Speaker 2
So it happened to be a woman that was already in your Yeah. Area. Life or or community, I mean.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yep. I just had never heard of her before. Yeah.
Speaker 2
What a trip. Okay. Cool. I love that. So you find out through this woman the path essentially, and she lays it all down for you, and it's just kind of obvious from there.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was just really obvious from there. Like, of course, throughout my pregnancy, I had to work at times quite hard to overcome those fears that were, like, deeply embedded in me. But I just kept reminding myself, like, they're not even mine. They're not even mine to carry. Like, where have these even come from? Because I'm not actually scared. It's just my mind playing or, you know, replaying all these stories to me. But yeah, I just knew.
Speaker 2
I also think there's this sense that you, we, all of us need to be, like, prepared with what we're gonna say, you know, with to these scripts because, yeah, they're not ours often, but they're the, like, lurking you know? They're like the things that everyone says that, you know, some part of us might feel like we need to be prepared to speak to it or defend it.
Speaker 3
And I
Speaker 2
think there's a big journey in all of this for all of us to really decide how we're gonna orient to the rest of the world that isn't gonna get it, that isn't going to you know, that are gonna think that we're nuts or you know?
Speaker 3
Totally. Yeah.
Speaker 2
So how how was that for you as you started to really own this choice? Like, did you tell people? Was the response pretty positive? How did you navigate the public arena or your family?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I feel like for the most part, I, I set like pretty strong boundaries from the get go. And if people ever wanted to debate me on it, I was like, like, I'm happy to explain why I'm doing this if you're willing to listen, but if you're gonna come at me with all the reasons why I shouldn't be doing it and all of the reasons why it's so dangerous and blah blah blah, then I actually don't want to hear it. And so I I was I got good at setting that boundary, but I definitely found with family that it was the most difficult at the beginning. But like I said, I just got really good at, I guess, telling people like, this is my choice and nothing you say or do is going to make me change my mind. I'm so sure of this. And then of course, every now and then I would whip out a few like facts and like statistics about the medical, medicalized birthing industry and stuff. But, I think just really tuning into your why and like your intention and like for me it was, it was my baby had made this really, really clear to me from the moment that I knew that I was pregnant. Like it took me a little while to kind of really tune in, but I feel like the reason I was so I did feel so strongly about this was because my communication with my baby was like so clear and yeah, it just all made so much sense. And like, even during labor and after she was born, I was like, wow, like we just did that together. We worked so perfectly together. Like I knew this was how you wanted to be brought into the world. But yeah, it's always going to be challenging when people are questioning you, especially on, you know, a topic that is so huge, like being pregnant and giving birth is what, like the greatest initiation ever. So to have to come up with, to have to argue, your choice on that is disheartening at times, but yeah, tuning, tuning into your why and sticking really strong to that. And I know it's not always easy, but also finding community of people, of women who have walked this path before you and being able to stand in solidarity together.
Speaker 2
And like you said about boundaries, you actually never need to argue or defend
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
Ever. Right?
Speaker 0
You can
Speaker 2
just choose to not do that.
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
So many women, you know, I'll I'll talk with them and they'll be like, how do you how do you, like, get your family to understand or respect your choice or any of that? And it's like, you don't. You actually just back off. But really, it's quite a crazy notion to a lot of women when I say, you can literally just say, I don't wanna talk about it. Mhmm. Because we're so programmed to be, you know, public property and that we owe explanations, especially to our, you know, our family. So
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I also found that when I I because I obviously I got quite quite passionate about it and so I started to share on my, on my Instagram and stuff. But I also found that people were really interested. Like it wasn't always just negativity. Like people were genuinely so fascinated and mind blown that there's another way to birth and another way to move through your pregnancy. And so I did just have a lot of curious people coming to me and yeah, it felt good to be able to kind of, I guess, yeah, open up another or plant seeds for these people as well for the future.
Speaker 2
For sure. I mean, even your willingness to share your birth video,
Speaker 3
you
Speaker 2
know, that women can actually have a visual of what hands off birth looks like.
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
You know, it's a really big deal. So anything else to say about your pregnancy? Like, I'm curious about what the tough spots were for you or what the work really felt like for you. Yeah. Just kind of anything. Anything you wanna share about how you spent your pregnancy, how you prepared for your birth. Pretty open ended question wherever you wanna take it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. My pregnancy was really slow and I wasn't really working and I feel like I just had all this time to really just, yeah, tune in to my body, connect with my baby, work through, I guess, yes, fears and anything that was coming up for me. I guess when I say that, I I just mean really sitting with when my mind would, you know, come up with these ideas that, you know, obviously we all have fears come up during pregnancy, for example, like, oh my god, what if like my baby dies or something like that? And just really being able to sit with that and I would pull out my journal and I would, I would write about it and I would just, my kind of theme of my pregnancy was how can I surrender and how can I cultivate the deepest trust for me, for my body, for my baby and for birth and really understanding and rewiring my brain to understand that birth is, you know, it's not inherently dangerous? It's the most natural thing ever. But yeah, my pregnancy was really beautiful. I loved being pregnant. I'm like, oh, am I ready to be pregnant? I know. Right? Yeah. I loved it. And I know that's not the case for everyone, but I also tell people that I think a huge reason that I did get to really enjoy my pregnancy was because I did consciously, avoid, you know, doing all the scans and going to see all the doctors and all the appointments and the obstetricians and stuff. I did have two scans throughout my whole pregnancy. It was, I think at six weeks and then again at, maybe fifteen or something like that. I can't quite remember. But I remember after the second scan, I went home and, I spoke to Joel and he was like, did that just feel really weird? And I said, yeah, it did. I I really regret it. And then I went down the that's when I started going down the rabbit hole of ultrasounds, which I hadn't actually really gone down yet. So, that was the last of them for my pregnancy. And of course, like I don't regret them or anything, but upon reflection, I, yeah, I won't be doing that again for any of my other bus.
Speaker 2
Can you speak a little bit more about why not? So for people who are new to the ultrasound thing, why, why wouldn't you do them again?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I, I didn't, I don't actually really know too much on like a more, like, logical level as to why I wouldn't, but I think it's more just this feeling within me that well, firstly, the radiation of an ultrasound just feels really off and gross to me, and I know how, how intense that is for a baby, like a tiny baby as well. So that's kind of my main reason. But secondly, I think that I don't even think that they're that accurate, like they're and, and also my thinking was, well, if something's not really right, what am I going to do? Am I going to go and like, not have this baby? You know, like it wouldn't actually change anything for me. Also I think that they can really take away from, or, like, override your connection to your baby and kind of interfere with that, yeah, that connection and, to them. So, yeah, that's kind of just my thing, but it's mostly just this intuitive feeling in my body that's like, really doesn't just, it doesn't really feel right.
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, I mean, I appreciate it not being this like highly studied intellectual explanation because I think women will really gaslight themselves from just allowing it to feel wrong, you know, and having that actually and genuinely be enough. And that Yeah. You don't. And by you, I mean, anyone listening, you don't need, you know, to be ready to cite twenty studies
Speaker 3
Of course.
Speaker 2
To say it doesn't feel right to me. That's completely good enough.
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And like just being able to, yeah, tune in with your body and really ask, like because I know so many women, well, most women, they just do it because they're told to. And it's like, have you actually thought about or have you actually felt that's the most important thing. Have you felt into this? Like, how does it feel in your body? And really, since I started sharing everything on my Instagram, I had so many women message me saying, that they were like shocked at how many ultrasounds they were made to have. And I'm like, yeah, it's wild, but also you're not, you're not made to do anything. You know, you can decline. You don't have to have to do that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it is, it can be pretty tricky to decline within the system because they will often withhold service.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
True. So there is a sense of, like, you gotta play the game if that's the game you're choosing. But what women, you know, often aren't awake to yet is you're choosing the game.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Right? You just don't know you're choosing the game. And once you realize you're choosing the game, I mean, it's it's life. Right? All of it's
Speaker 3
Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. So you've tell me a bit about this relationship with the birth keeper. So you find her, and it feels really good to have her on the team. And and what does that all look like? She's obviously not like a medical provider or licensed in any way. She's Yeah. Tell me a bit about that setup.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So once we, decided that, yeah, she'd be my birth keeper, she actually used to be a midwife and she was in the system and then like, yeah. So like a lot of people, a lot of women or a lot of birth support workers, I guess they come to realize like, holy, holy shit, that's not fucked up. Like, yeah. Yeah. It's I can't be Mhmm.
Speaker 2
I
Speaker 3
can't be in that energy. She actually calls it the entity, like the whole the whole governing, like, I don't know. Yeah. Thing is like dark entity. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It is.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So yeah, she used to be in that and then which actually I kind of appreciate that she, like, she has dipped her toes in that before and she knows, like, how just not right it is to then yeah, swing to the complete other side, but she's completely hands off. And I had her as my birth keeper. And then I had a friend who was training to be a doula and she was still in like the training phase, I guess. And I invited her to my birth. Sorry. So it was those two and then my partner, my dog, and then my birth keeper's baby. So they were all at my birth. But, yeah, my I guess my main birth birth support was my birth keeper and my friend at the time who was training to be a doula. And, yeah, it was perfect. They were amazing and they both offered something different in the space. My birth keeper is incredibly hands off, which I love and appreciate so much, like so hands off that basically she would just her role in the space is to just almost be like this wise energy that just like doesn't even float. It's in another room and every now and then she would come out and it was almost like at the perfect time she would come out and just give me these words of it was exactly what I needed to hear at the time. I was like really, really struggling. And it was like, she knew, and she would come out and she would just say this one liner and all of a sudden I'd be like, oh yeah, that's right. Like I'm doing it. Or, oh, that's right. This is perfect. Or I remember at one point I was like begging, like, why is this taking so long? Like, I actually can't do this anymore. And she was like, it's taking as long as it needs to take. Like, it's perfect. And I was like, that's right. Because it, yeah, it's easy to get in your head and be like, hang on. Like, why is this taking so long?
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 3
But it was almost like she knew from the noises I was making and stuff that she knew where I was at in my labor and she was just like, it's fine. It's perfect.
Speaker 2
That's awesome. So she, sorry. Just go to back to her story really quick. So she surrenders her license years prior.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think I mean, yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2
Right? Because she's a fully
Speaker 3
licensed Yeah. Unlicensed out of the system. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Because that can you know, when women do that, that can really go either way. Obviously, it went the right way with her. The other way it goes with medical providers who surrender their license is, like, they can't ever stop bringing
Speaker 3
that consciousness.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Whether it's fear of meconium or fill in the blank. Because there's a long a long list of it. And so, yeah, it sounds like she has done a lot of deprogramming in order to Definitely.
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's awesome. I also don't really know anyone who like, what's the word, you know, despises the medical system when it comes to birth as much as her. So, I might rival her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I have to rival her.
Speaker 2
Okay. That's so cool. Yeah. I was wondering in your video, cause I watched it recently and I heard a baby and I was like, does this woman have a baby? Like, I couldn't figure it out, but that makes sense.
Speaker 3
That was her baby. It was her, like, one and a half year old, and he's been to, like, many, many births, in his only, you know, two years of life. And how did that
Speaker 2
how did that feel for you to have a baby in that wasn't yours in your birthing space?
Speaker 3
Honestly, I didn't even know he was there. Like I was, so in my other, in my own world, I was so completely just somewhere else that I didn't even pay attention to the fact that he was there. Yeah. Cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. So you are heading into your birth. Anything you wanna speak about about the end of your pregnancy? And if not, you can just get into your birth story.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I feel like the end of my pregnancy was definitely emotions were heightened and I did start to feel like a little bit of fear creeping back in. And I remember, I think it was about three nights or two nights before I went into labor, I knew that things were happening. Like my water had started kind of trickling out. It hadn't fully broken, but it was kind of trickling. And I was like, okay, this is all happening. And I was just, I was crying to my partner and I was like, I just felt so much anxious energy rushing through my body. Like actually for the last, for the two nights leading up to me going into birth, I laid in bed quite literally shaking like this. And my jaw was like, my jaw was like chattering and it was just wild. And my, I would text my birth keeper, like, am I okay? Like, what is this? And she's like, she's like, it's normal. Like, it's just so much energy moving through your body, preparing you for birth, you know? So, but yeah, I was, I was excited and I was also nervous and I did have some fears come up. And so I went out into the living room and I wrote down, you know, a bunch of, I guess, fears that were still present for me. And then I went outside and it was a full moon and I just burnt the piece of paper and I just said like, goodbye, truly, you're not mine, to carry. And then, yeah, just quickly when I actually was in labor, it's really interesting because of course there were many moments where I felt completely defeated, but there weren't any moments where I thought to myself, like truly thought to myself, oh my god, something's wrong. You know, like those fears, they didn't creep into my like, they they didn't come into my labor, into my birth space. It was like I was just so in it. And I'd like to think that, yeah, the nine plus months that I spent cultivating all of that trust really came through for me. And I was able to just like sit, sit in that. But yeah, my birth, let me see how much of it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right. Because your kiddo is around a year now.
Speaker 3
Yeah. She's a year in like three weeks. Wow.
Speaker 2
Wait, My baby's a year in three weeks.
Speaker 3
Oh, wow. What's the date of your
Speaker 2
October third.
Speaker 3
Oh, okay. My baby's October twelfth. So maybe she's
Speaker 2
Oh, that's cute. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Not fortunate.
Speaker 2
So okay. So a year ago, we'll see what we can remember.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
How long ish was it?
Speaker 3
I remember my so my one night, my waters started trickling, and then my contractions, I guess, started, but they were so incredibly, you know, mild, and very, very, very spaced apart. And then twenty four hours had passed and the next night I was laying in bed. Yeah. And the next night I was laying in bed and I, it was about two am and I was feeling really uncomfortable and all of a sudden I got, I got up and I thought, oh, I need to go pee. So I got up out of bed and my waters literally burst and I just felt this pop in my belly and it was the most like such a wild feeling. And then I went to the bathroom and I noticed that my, like mucus plug, I think is what it's called. Yeah. Had was there. So texted my birth keeper and she's like, all right, like all good. You just keep, just keep chilling, you know, do whatever you need to do. And she lived about two hours away at this time. So, yeah, so she was just going to jump in the car when she felt that it was her time to come. And I I went into the living room. Oh my god. It's so funny. And I I got on my ball and I had my earphones in and it was, you know, like three AM or something, and I was rolling back and forth on my ball. And I remember thinking to myself, oh my God, if this is labor, I have got this.
Speaker 2
Yeah, of course. Oh my God. Welcome to the club.
Speaker 3
And it just, I, I laugh so much because upon reflection, I really, and I mean, how can you know, but I truly, I had no idea what I was in for and it just, it's so funny to reflect back.
Speaker 2
And thank God, thank God that early labor gives us that, you know, so you can be like, okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I feel for the
Speaker 2
women, I feel for the women who, you know, there's some women out there that, like, they'll go zero to ten. They'll just, like, get up and it's on. And they don't have any of the startup, any of the, like, integration, and that's so intense.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I have a few friends who's who's who's that's happened to, and they've explained it as their baby, like, quite literally just, like, shot through them. And I was like, wow. Can't relate. But, yeah, intense.
Speaker 2
So how long about did yours once your waters opened?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So then it was once my waters opened, it was which was about, yeah, two AM on the, oh god, eleventh, I guess, if she was born on the twelfth. And then from then all the way through till the morning, my contractions completely like eased off and I was just crying so much. And I was like, what the hell? Like, are you serious? Like, what's happening? I need to meet my baby. Like, yeah. And I texted my birth keeper and she's like, she's like, it's all perfect. Like, don't worry. But she also did say this could go on for like a week, you know? And she really just told me straight up and I was like, no, it can't. And I was just feeling quite upset that it had all like literally no more, no more contractions. And I was like, what? And then, so I had a good cry about that. And then around, you know, You're like, no, I
Speaker 2
can't control this. I know.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And then around mid morning we went for a walk and the, the place we were living in, it was like in the bush and it was really hilly. And so we went on a walk and I remember as soon as I started walking up these Hills, all all of a sudden I was like, oh my God, it's coming on again hard and fast. Just out of nowhere. So I was basically walking and having to stop every few minutes to breathe through contractions. And as I kept walking, they just kept getting harder and faster, harder and faster. Oh no, wait. This must have been the tenth, not the eleventh. Wait, tenth. Hang on. Oh my gosh. I can't even remember my brain. Anyway, it'll come back to me and I'll confirm soon.
Speaker 2
I mean, they don't need dates anyway.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I guess. And then, yeah, got back to the house, messaged no. Yeah. It's the eleventh. Messaged Amy, my birth keeper, and I told her, okay. Like, this is how kind of spaced apart they are and this is how I'm feeling and stuff. And she's like, oh, yep. You're you're definitely in active labor. Like, I'll see you later this afternoon. And I was like, okay. Yay. Cool. And then basically that whole afternoon, I just chilled at home listening to music, yeah, trying to wrap my head around the fact that I'd probably have a baby really soon. And I labored all that all night, like from about four PM in my mind anyway, that's when things started to really like pick up and get like quite intense. And of course, as the night went on, it only got more intense and more intense and more intense. So I my birth keeper and my, my friend came around, I think they arrived around like five, six PM and I labored all night, all morning again. And I would get in and out of the pool and onto the bed. And, yeah, I saw the sun coming up. That's right. I saw the sun coming up, and I looked out the window with the most like defeated look on my face and I would just, I looked out and I said, no, not another day of this. I was like, you are kidding me. And then at about, was it eight am she was born? Yeah. About eight am. I think she was born. And yeah, it was long. Well, it felt like forever,
Speaker 4
you
Speaker 3
know, from the moment my ward is broke to the moment that I actually, yeah, pushed her out, just felt like forever and it's all a beautiful blur.
Speaker 2
And so take me to, yeah, the end because I have a visual for it, you know, because you shared your video. And what surprised you about your birth and what what else is there to say?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I guess I was surprised firstly at the intensity of it. I don't know what I was thinking during my pregnancy. And like I said, of course, you can never fully know until you're in it. But, like, I I guess I watched as well a lot of birth videos where it literally looked like the mom just, like, breathes them out. And I was like, you know, and I of course, I know that can be the case, but, yeah, maybe I didn't I didn't expose myself to enough of, like, what it how hard it really could be. And it of course as well. Like I even have people commenting on my birth video being like, wow, that mom made it look so easy. And I'm like, yeah, because you only saw two minutes of my video. You have no idea how much I was struggling prior to pushing my baby out.
Speaker 2
Plus I'm making this up, but I feel like a lot of those quiet breathing them out videos are not first time moms.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally. Totally. Yeah. So, yeah, that that definitely surprised me, the intensity. And I think as well, maybe how long it took. And I know that, you know, there's no right or wrong amount of time, but I didn't I don't think once I even thought to myself, oh, like, this actually could take a really long time. I don't know what how long I thought it would take, but, yeah, it wasn't. Yeah. I was a little bit shocked, I guess. And there were many times where I just said like, what the hell? Like, why is this taking so long? I actually can't believe this. But you just keep doing it. You just do it. And that coming back into that trust of like, it actually is taking as long as it needs to take is really important because like, it helped me to understand that my body and my baby are moving in all of these really, you know, I don't know, intricate, like, positions and doing all the things they need to do to get themselves into the perfect position to then, you know, come earth side. They're probably my two the two things, I guess, that surprised me, but I do wanna say, that I think a big maybe lesson or insight for me upon reflection was that I actually was resisting the pain in a lot of ways during my labor, and I would often try and, I guess, escape it or or move from a position that felt more easeful for me. And the lesson for me in that was was that the more that you resist the pain and you don't just, like, hand yourself over to it, I feel like and and maybe this isn't the case, but I feel like that's maybe what was why everything was taking longer maybe and why it wasn't moving at a speed that was maybe a little bit faster because I was resisting so much. And I only say that because when my birth keeper came out, it was probably like an hour or not even two hours before I actually pushed Maya out. She walked out and she, she said, oh, like, why don't you try laying on your side? Have you laid on your side yet? And I said, I have, but every time I lay on my side, it is so painful that I actually can't bear to be in that position and I have to move. And she kind of looked at me and she's just like, why don't you, why don't you, you know, not to tell me what to do at all, but kind of insinuating, why don't you hop back into that position and see if you can really just sit with those feelings that, that come up when you're in that position. And as soon as I spent, you know, I can't tell you how long it was, but a while in that position laboring on my side in that position, that is when I started to almost start grunting and feel that she had moved down and that I was ready to start pushing. And yeah, Amy was like, I think that you can get in the pool now. And I was just like, oh my God, it's happening finally. And so, yeah. Yeah. Thank god. So I just say that I just say all of that because it was interesting to, yeah, I guess, experience, yeah, all of that and not being in the position you know, not moving into the positions that, like, because it was so painful, but then getting into that position and being like, oh, okay. Like, maybe that's how my body wanted to be, and it's so normal for us to resist all of that. Right? But, yeah, I think that's like a big a big lesson for me.
Speaker 2
And try as we might to resist, a baby will still come out.
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
Totally. Which is also important, I think, on the flip side of, like I mean, I've attended tons of births where women will do anything they possibly can to climb out of the experience, and a baby is always born.
Speaker 3
You know? Of course. Of course. Yes.
Speaker 2
It's like, it's gonna take the time it takes to decimate you to, you know, like, the death of the ego, like, all of the spiritual workings that are happening takes the time it takes. That that's my takeaway. I had a fifty two hour birth with my first.
Speaker 3
Wow.
Speaker 2
It was I did the same thing. Like, I made up, which I didn't realize in until hindsight, I had made up that because I wasn't afraid, because I was, you know, free birthing, it would just somehow take less than twenty four hours. Yeah. I just, like, made it up. And so once it was after twenty four hours, I was, like, yeah, very pissed about that. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And, anyway, but I think I think I love that, and I wouldn't trade that for anything. Because if I had gotten a twelve hour, I wouldn't have emerged with the decimation and like spiritual resurrection that was on the other side of that, you know?
Speaker 3
Totally. Totally. And I love that. Like, yeah, you're so right. It did. It was taking as long as it needed to take to actually like absolutely transform me and fuck me up. Destroy me. Yeah. And, and like upon reflection, of course it was all perfect and I can see that. But yeah, it's wild.
Speaker 2
So then okay. So you birth her, and what is what is the next week like? Like, what is postpartum like as a first time mom?
Speaker 3
So, yeah, I birth her, and I, like, after a while, yeah, kind of, like, pull her up, which you've seen on my birth video. And then I don't know if I sent you the part or not where I'm like, oh, it's a boy? And I can't and my partner's like, like, I I don't know. I can't see properly. You know? And I don't know why I thought that, but the reason that I had, like, shock in my voice was because my whole pregnancy, I just knew I was giving birth to a girl. Like, I and I would have been shocked if it wasn't. But I
Speaker 2
would have been shocked if it wasn't. But I would have scans you didn't have them tell you what their ultrasounds?
Speaker 3
No. I didn't have them tell me. It was always gonna be, like, yeah, a surprise. But then I kinda gave her a flip and I was like, oh, it's a girl. It's my girl. It's all good guys. Don't worry. False, false alarm. Yeah. And then we, oh, this is like my favorite part of my birth story. It's when I get up out of the, oh, I try to pull her to my chest, but the umbilical cord is so short that the furthest I can pull her is like my, to my belly button. And so I can't actually pull her up to my chest. And so then everyone's like, well, you know, why don't you hop out of the pool and go lay on the bed so you can put her on your, on your chest? And I was like, oh, good idea. And so I'm like, so fatigued and light headed and I'm like trying to stand up to get out of the pool and like balance with this like baby on me. And then I step out of the pool and this gush, like this huge gush of blood just like falls out of me and I'm like, damn, I wish we got that on video. Cause the recording stopped basically after she was like in my arms. And yeah, it was just like the most incredible thing, like just so much blood just falling out of me. And for a second, I was like, is this like all good? And Amy's like, yep, it's fine. It's normal. Don't worry. Nothing to worry about. And I was like, cool. Which I think is important to note because a lot of people have fear of like bleeding out or like bleeding this, like so much after. And like, of course I know that that is, that that can happen, but this much blood, like it's, it's normal, it's fine. It was nothing to worry about and I didn't feel worried at all. I was just kind of like, wow. But yeah, that was pretty cool. And then, I laid on, yeah, got to the bed with Myra and, just was sitting there, like just, I just kept saying, I can't believe I did that. I can't believe I did that. Like, what the hell was that? Like, what the hell? But even just talking about it, honestly, I'm so excited to do it again. And, I think that's the amazing, perfect thing about nature and understood physiological birth. Like it's all, it's all perfect and you do want to do it again. And, I don't, you know, I know what it's like to walk to the fire to collect my baby and I would do it a hundred times over, you know, to, to get her again and to, to birth again, which I think is just amazing. And so sad that you do speak to so many women who are just like dreading, dreading, birth, dreading labor. Yeah. And my postpartum was pretty slow. We were living out in like the bush, like near a national park and so we didn't have like really any neighbors or anything. And upon reflection, I guess there was a part of me that wanted to be close to like community and friends, but at the same time, I know I probably would have, felt like I wanted to go and do more instead of just rest. Sorry, that was like a bit of a blessing. And I did have people obviously come out to me and stuff, but yeah, we, we stayed in, there was a part of me that felt, oh, maybe I'll do the forty days. And that definitely didn't happen. I think we got to like two weeks of, house arrest. And And then I started to feel like, alright, I really need to get outside. I need to go to the beach. I need to get to the ocean. I need to like see people. But my energy was so on and off. So I really could only give, give tiny, tiny amounts of myself and then be like, alright, yep. Time to go back home and rest now. But honestly, I just have such fond memories of my pregnancy and of my postpartum as well. It was such a beautiful, such a beautiful time, and I'm so excited to do it again. I definitely did have moments of, like, feeling quite depleted. I think the hormone my hormones just going wild and, you know, breastfeeding and everything and feeling a little, yeah, anxious at times as well, but that passed pretty soon. And I think that's also quite a normal normal part of postpartum. But but yeah.
Speaker 2
Simple and sweet.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was simple and sweet and I never
Speaker 2
And horrific.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And horrific. Parts that were horrific. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
But we, she's
Speaker 3
never been, Maya's never been to a doctor or had any checks or, gone to any appointments or anything like that. And even when I tell people that they're like, what do you mean? Like she's never been to a doctor or anything? Like, how did you No much. Yeah. Yeah. She's like, and they're like, how did you know she was okay after he gave birth? And Oh, duh. I was like, look look at her. Like, I don't need someone else to tell me that my baby's fine. Like I would have an, I would know if there was something that wasn't quite right. She's perfect. She's so healthy and yeah.
Speaker 2
But like people literally don't think that you would know.
Speaker 3
I know. Yeah.
Speaker 2
In unless you have unless a stranger who's gone through the, you know, psychological hazing of the industrial model, unless they say she's okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You might be missing something. When I when I first got pregnant with my first kid, I called my grandma to tell her. And she goes, well, how do you how do you know? And I was like, what do you mean how do I know? And she was like, well, you didn't go to a doctor. How do you really know? I was like, woah. This is so deep.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Totally. This is how, yeah, disconnected we are from our own bodies. Like, me, like me like, I have a baby in me. Like, I know.
Speaker 2
So weird. Okay. So yeah. Of course, you wouldn't take I mean, of course, you wouldn't take her to a pediatrician afterwards. Right? Like, this is the ripple effect
Speaker 3
of Yes. Exactly.
Speaker 2
What we call wild mothering. It's just like Yeah. Figuring this out without the system and centering mother baby and letting it actually be really simple.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 2
So just to kind of wrap up to to what we were talking about at the beginning, how have you like, how are you different now with this as an integrated part of who you are? What do you notice about yourself as a woman, a year into mothering, making the choices that you've made?
Speaker 3
Mhmm. I feel like I'm just, like I said at the beginning, just so sure of myself, sure of my decisions as a mother, sure of like who I am as a mother and ensure that the way that we parent is so just right for, for our family, but also in this like primal natural way. Like I just know this is, this is how it's supposed to be. Not to say that there's, I don't know, I don't want to say that there's a right or a wrong, but like we are, you know, we're animals, like we're, we're meant to be connected to that primal part of ourselves. And I really feel that coming through the way that we parent, very much like outside of the system. But yeah, also something that's come up for me and it was very big for me in my pregnancy and my, in my postpartum, it definitely like slowed down a little bit, but then, you know, from like four or five months onward, it's, it really came back and it's back like stronger now more than ever, is this creativity. I feel like I'm the most creative I've ever been in my life and with that creativity, I'm able to birth like all these incredible ideas and I'm able to make money in ways that I didn't even know was possible before. And it's like, I, yeah, it's hard to explain, but I just see it as like, you know, growing a baby and birthing a baby and then mothering, it's like we're we're opening this portal of like life and that energy, because I've been able to stay in tune with that energy and stay so connected to that energy and not have anyone like penetrate that energy or take it away from me. I'm able to carry that now with me throughout my mothering journey, but not just my mothering journey, also throughout just like my life as a person, you know, and it's so exciting because for the first time in my life, I'm like, wow, I actually can do anything. And like, I know that I can bring it to life and it's almost like symbolic of the fact that like I have, I've grown a baby and I've birthed a baby and now it's like, I can do that with anything, anything in life. And it's, it's really powerful and it's, our lives have just completely done a three sixty since, yeah, since becoming parents. And yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I love I love you speaking to the creative piece because that is, I think, extremely common experience among women who birth and and postpartum is important here, like, very intact.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But, obviously, the vast majority of women are experiencing so much fracture and a a real suppression of that creative energy. They're literally drugged. Right? They're literally given shots of Pitocin to diminish the amount of oxytocin that is there. And so the cultural narrative is that motherhood destroys you. You know, you can't make any money, like, everything is done. And then there's this over here on the fringe, there's these rebirthers and women birthing, you know, undisturbed. And it's like, oh, that's so interesting. They're all so much more vital. They're so much more embodied. They're so much more creative. I mean, it it took me having a baby for me to reach the levels of creativity and, financial success that I've ever experienced.
Speaker 3
Exactly. Yep. Yep. Love it. Totally. Yeah. And so for me, I'm just like, wow. Like, I have more babies, more abundance. Right? Exactly.
Speaker 2
That'll be the name of your title.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Alright. Cool. Thank you so much for your time. And if, women wanna follow you, we're gonna put your, you know, stuff stuff in the show notes, and maybe we'll reshare your video when we put this out so that everyone can watch it again.
Speaker 3
Amazing. Thanks for having me. I love, yeah, love talking about birth. Love, like, hopefully inspiring. Yeah. And empowering women to just, like, really know that it's all possible. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Alright. Yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3
Thank you.
Speaker 2
Take care. I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back
