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Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your
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host, Emilee Saldaya. It's been a while feeding
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shame
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since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 3
Welcome, women, to the Freebird Society podcast. I am here with another beautiful episode. Isn't this season awesome? Before we get get going, I wanna say that we are closing registration for the Midwife Within Retreat very soon. So please grab your spot. If you are wanting to come, come be in person with us. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to learn the art of village midwifery with elder midwife Sister Morning Star. You can go to matriarch rising festival dot com slash midwife within. Grab one of our last spots, and I'll see you in May. Okay. Another thing I wanna mention here is that we just opened up work trade positions for Matriarch Rising Festival twenty twenty four. Come co create one of the most magical events on the planet with us. We would love to have you on our team. You can check that out and apply at matriarch rising festival dot com slash work dash trade. I actually met today's guest at last year's Matriarch Rising Festival with her new little sweet daughter that she's here today to speak the story of. So my guest's name is Heather, and Heather discovered her unplanned pregnancy amidst a hectic trade show circuit, and she realized her life was about to take an unexpected twist. She navigated debilitating pregnancy sickness as she worked in corporate America. She has her first birth in a hospital supported by a doula, but Heather wanted more. She wanted better. The gaslighting that she encountered from her medical midwife during her second labor proved to be a pivotal moment in her journey, enabling her to find her voice and claim her life. Enjoy. Alright. Heather, welcome.
Speaker 2
Thank you. So happy to be here.
Speaker 3
Yeah. This is so fun to get to do this, and this has happened with a couple other guests as well where I meet you pre this baby. You know, we work together and and do coaching together, and then you come to the freaking festival with your free birth baby. And now you're on the podcast. It's such a fun, you know, spiral and full circle. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's super cool. Meet your Emilee. This is wonderful. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3
So let's get into it. Who are you before your first baby and kind of contextualize a bit of of your life and and who you are as you're heading into your first child?
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's such a journey. You know? I always kind of, like, toted myself as, like, you know, we we lived on a three acre homestead. At the same time, I was like it's like split personalities. I'm in corporate marketing, running a three acre homestead, so working in high-tech and, you know, tending to goats in in off my off hours, going and picking up new goats, adding more farm animals, big garden, but kind of in a split world. Right? Like, living into these two identities. And as we navigated our first birth, we weren't planning it. My my partner and I have been together for, I think, probably eight years at that point, a long journey. And it was right before a trade show circuit, and I knew he had been calling in the baby that it's time. I wanna start this family. And lo and behold, you know, James' spirit came. And so I went on a three event three week event circuit and didn't know I was pregnant, was like falling asleep at this trade show, and then flew from New York to Miami, then from Miami to Orlando and got back and took a pregnancy test and was like, oh, wow. This is happening. So that was, you know, it was I was, like, in the Simba Teen world of, like, okay. Now I need to shift. You know? What's gonna happen? What's gonna go on?
Speaker 3
And at this point, where are you living?
Speaker 2
I was in Santa Cruz. So at that point, I was in Valley. I was working in the Bay Area doing that hour commute each way. Oh my god. Yeah. No.
Speaker 3
Isn't it crazy what we've, like, done in our in our previous lives?
Speaker 2
It really is. It feels like different lives in a good way.
Speaker 3
Yeah. In a good way. I was just recently in a city this weekend, and I was just like, what is wrong with me? I can't handle it. Like, I can't handle the the parking and the garages and the signs, and I've completely calibrated out to a whole different
Speaker 2
I always joke that it was, like, my sanctuary. We come home to, like, the three acres, like, tucked in the Santa Cruz mountains. Like, yeah. Sure. You know, Santa Cruz is, like, a hundred thousand people, I think, now, but it doesn't feel like San Jose or San Francisco. And then, like, commute into these parking structures every day, like, battle the the freeway. And it's like, wow. This is nuts, but you just do it.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally.
Speaker 2
That's what the normal.
Speaker 3
Okay. So you get pregnant, and what happens? What do you what's what do what's your setup? Do you go to a doctor or a midwife? Who how are you starting to imagine your pregnancy is gonna be and your birth?
Speaker 2
Well, it's so interesting because it's like before that, you know, I was really sick as a kid. I had, I had epilepsy. I was in and out of the hospital. I literally lived in the in Stamford for probably, like, three months with a turban wrapped on my head for them to test, like, brain. See. So Woah. Childhood was really medicalized. Right? And that was kind of, like, the only way I really knew. You know? And so but, you know, in my teen years, as I was healthy, I never went in. It was like, well, I don't need to. Like, you know, you just kind of. And then all of a sudden, you're pregnant. And it's like, now there's this whole regimen that is, like, expected of you. Right? And I I didn't know you know, I'm like, this is what I need to do. Right? Okay. You go in. They validate your pregnancy test. Right? They they wanna give you an ultrasound right there. You know, with his birth, I Brian knew Brian really wanted to start the family, and I've never been pregnant before. Well, actually, that's not true. I think I might have had a miscarriage early on, but I wasn't a hundred percent sure on that. And so I went and got a a ultrasound, you know, what, eight weeks, just to be able to share that with him to make sure it was right because I didn't want you know, I just didn't even know. Like, do you trust the test? Do you not? And then that jump started everything. Right? So it was like the whole regimen. And and I you know, at that time, I felt good about that because I was like, okay. That's what's expected of me. This is what you do. And, you know, there was it was just they kicked us off into you know, he was elated that we were pregnant. They kicked us off into this, like, joint, actually, prenatal circle. So they did your, like it was weird. It was actually really cool. It was all other first time parents. We're in, you know, a group setting. And it would be really cool in the sense that we were just, like, communing and, like, talking and, like, having this whatever, but there is all the prenatal stuff involved. So you go in there, you take your weight once a week, they do the Doppler on you, and then you sit down, you hear the baby's heartbeat, and then you sit down as a group and you talk through and follow this little book where you track everything, like, down to a t. And we did that. You know? We did that the whole way through. In his pregnancy, and we'll see this theme as we go through all these, I get hyperemesis. I'm one of those lucky people, which whether we say it's real or not, right, that I'm just vomiting like crazy. And doing that, you know, running I was a marketing director at this time, traveling all over the United States and the world, running these big events. And so I would barf the whole way to the airport as he drove me. Sometimes, like, I remember one time it was, like, in the Lindor rice cake bag. It was, like, desperation. Like, why did I have that rice cake bag? I don't know. And then would, you know, proceed to barf the whole rest of my business trip. So that was one layer that was really threw me for a loop. And as we get to my last and my free birth, my I really owned that. Right? Because this is a part, like, this is a part of my journey. And so, actually, at one event, talk about, like, just the craziest experience. The it had been happening for so long that I started vomiting blood. And I was in Las Vegas running a huge conference. I'm that kind of person where I'm totally type a, and so I'm barfing all morning, see there's blood. I'm like, oh, no. In Las Vegas. But who's gonna set up the event? I have to set up the event. So I call the emergency emergency room. Is this a problem? They're like, yeah. You gotta come in. I'm like, well, I'll be there later if you could fast track me. I go set up the event lifting all these boxes. Right? And then go into the emergency room, and then they proceed to do the whole thing of you need to take Reglan, you need to take whatever the whatever all the prescriptions are with this stuff and had deemed that I had, severe varicose veins from the intense vomiting that came with HG. And at that time
Speaker 3
But when in when in reality, someone just needed to say quit your job, sweetheart.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Or take a break. Right?
Speaker 3
Well, the same same. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. Like, you know and so it it wasn't. It was like, here's the tool that you can keep running a million miles an hour, just like we're expected when we go into our menstrual cycle. Right? Like, we feel we need to, like, take a break, but we're pushed. There's no there's no break to be had unless we carve that out for ourselves. And that's something, as we get into, that I've learned. Right? But this time, it was just follow the regimen. You know? And at that time, I felt it felt a little weird to me. Like but it was like, okay. I'm not gonna question it. You know? The white coat thing where it's like, okay. This is you know, you're telling me what's in my best interest, so I'm going to do that. You know? And so with his, you know, progressed on and there is this was a big theme, you know, with James at about eight months pregnant. My husband, he'd had three back surgeries before this, and his back went out. And he could not move. It was Oh my god. Lazy town. I was running, you know, really intense work, you know, eight months pregnant, had been going through, you know, all of our appointments. I was fine. I'm, you know, I'm healthy. We stay active. We're doing all this, like but it was the anxiety was intense at that point. He couldn't move, and it actually got so bad, they rushed him in to an immediate surgery. At that surgery, they snipped his, where it releases spinal fluid. Woah. Losing spinal fluid. You mean you mean on accident? On accident.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. And we have
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to put him into another emergency surgery. At this surgery in his back again, and this is his lower back. This is where they introduced a staph infection. Woah. And so after that surgery, he got a staph infection in his spine. And I was eight months pregnant, and it was crazy. It was like this whole like, living in this hospital. Right? Like and now he is I'm having to give him a PICC line, intravenous medication twice a day at home and have him then flush everything after three hours. At eight months pregnant, trying to, like, own what my body is doing, and all the while, like, navigate as, you know, this first pregnancy of, like, what's this gonna look like, and what are my fears? Like, I I knew I wanted to have a natural, at this time of what I thought natural birth, which meant, like, no epidural. Right? At the hospital, I had a doula friend that was really wonderful, and she supported me. But, you know, she even she had her home birth before that and was like, you know, why don't you have you know, have you thought about this? It wasn't really a conversation, but I was like, I was still on this trajectory of, like, this is what needs to do and all the women in my corporate work talking, you know, about, like, woah. You're not gonna you know, are you gonna do are you gonna vaccinate? Are you gonna do this? You're not gonna have an epidural. I mean, that was crazy. You know? But the fear I had to sit with was, can I handle this? Like, all these people around me are like, that the having not having an epidural is crazy. Right? So it, like, puts me in this headspace all the while dealing with Brian's health thing. So at that time, he's this went on for, like, two months, this this PICC medication. So right before I gave birth is actually when he finally got better. And there was a time when I I thought I was gonna lose him. Like, it was such a severe thing. Like, the doctor, I was like, what is the likelihood of this becoming really bad? And he's like, we just have to see. Because it was in his spine, underneath you know, it was in inside of him. And so I'm, like, trimming goat hooves. I'm, like, mucking stalls. I'm barfing and super pregnant and, like, so emotional. Right? Like, what is going on here? But we get through it. And,
Speaker 3
And are you guys, like, pretty alone?
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Like, I mean, we have family over there, but it's like yeah. There wasn't you know, there were some people rallying around us, but it was yeah. I mean, like, Brian's boss at that time built me a stand where I trimmed the goat hooves on, which is awesome. And they were but, like, that family was amazing, but they have kids. Right? He's running a company. It's like as far as, like, a lot of support to, like, help through this, it you know, nobody was coming in and helping me with the pick line or any of this stuff. It was us. But at that time, we didn't have kids. So, you know, it was much more manageable than if we were in that state now.
Speaker 3
And so how how is your mental health heading into your first birth?
Speaker 2
Oh, it was rough. Yeah. There is a lot of, like, feeling I was definitely feeling sorry for myself. Why am I you know? But and then having to grapple with that, like and I don't think I grappled with that at that time, but it was, like, it was a part of this journey, right, like, of self awareness. I'm realizing, like, I gotta put my big girl pants on, and we're just gonna handle this. You know? And I had a a friend at that time that had had a natural birth at, Sutter Hospital, which is in Santa Cruz. And it's like, if you're gonna give birth in a hospital I mean, this is the one. You get a balcony. You get your own room. They have a birth or pool in their tub that you can't birth in. But Of
Speaker 3
course not. But you can you know what? You can look at it, and you can you can think about maybe going in there at some point.
Speaker 2
You know what I told them? I said, I'm in there and I'm gonna give birth. Like, are you gonna, like and I'm just gonna do it. Are you gonna pull me out of there? And they're like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We'll pull you out of there. I'm like, I don't know. I can get pretty mean. Like, you might not wanna see pull me out of there. And it was like this, like, almost joking, but kinda like, no. Really, like, you No.
Speaker 3
No. We'll actually pull you out. Oh, yeah. No. No. You're on our turf, honey.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, we do the whole thing. We're in these, like, the the centering groups is what they call them. We're going through it. Right? And then, tour the hospital, all the stuff they put you through to, like, get prepared, pack your hospital bag. And James came, you know, right on right on the clock. I knew when he was conceived because I had that three week event circuit. You know? And that was the only time. It was right before there. And just by, you know, by God's alignment, it was like I was ovulating right on that day when we did it. And and his spirit was for sure called in, like, in a needed way. It was game changer for her life. But his birth, you know, it was like it was like the uniform, like, hospital birth. It was straightforward. Like, my labors are pretty quick. I was grateful that I had my girlfriend that was a doula because she gave me some good guidance that I didn't know at the time, and that was labor at home a lot at home as long as you can. Right? Before, like, going in there and you know?
Speaker 3
Right. Like, avoid prison.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Avoid the bright lights. Avoid all that until, you know and it wasn't even that she was pushing me there because she had had her home burst. Until I choose that that's where I need to be. You know? Right? So we know our last night before he was born as we walk you know, go for a walk on Capitola Beach. We wouldn't have lunch at, like, Botanical Arms over there. Walked up the sand. It was beautiful. I had you know, one thing I did start in his pregnancy was, like, my journey to more holistic approaches in medicine. And I'd always been, like you know, I I grew up at the Yuba River and the Sierra Nevadas and Nevada City. Like, that's where Brian and I met. Like, I was always really crunchy. And that like I said, it's like two lives, corporate Heather and then crunchy Heather over here. Right?
Speaker 3
Trevor just, like like, liking nature is crunchy.
Speaker 2
I know. Well and I only say that because, like, through this thing, like, even the women that I worked with who are like, oh, you're so crunchy. Like, are you granola? Are you you know? That's what you would classify in tech. Right? You're Nice. City. Right? You're not doing this. Like, it's abnormal. Mhmm. Mine maybe was a little more. You know? I was, like, sleeping at the river. Yeah. So, you know, last night, the before the birth, it was, like, went on that beautiful walk, got home. And the one fear I really had of not having experienced birth was, what's this gonna feel like? Like, am I gonna you know, it was, like, almost like people describe, well, it it feels like you're about ready to die. That's what somebody I remember telling me. So in his labor, it was like which is totally not the case.
Speaker 3
I mean, for some people, it is. For
Speaker 2
some people, it is. But, I mean, it's like how we frame it. Right? Like, of course, it could feel like that, but at the same time, like, it's the level of resistance I felt. For me, it's the level of resistance. If I'm resisting feel worse than if I allow it to wash over me, and that's what I learned through the subsequent pregnancies. But in this case, yeah, I came on in the middle of the night. I remember waking up at one AM in the morning, and it was like, boom. Okay. This is it. And then just labored by myself all night long, you know, trying to rest as much. And then come the morning time, called my doula. And I'm just being quick on this one because we wanna spend more time on our other ones. But she came down, and she got there about seven thirty. And I'm, like, writhing a bit at that point. Right? And she goes, I think you're probably around to six. I'm like, okay. Well, I feel like I need to start pushing. And she's like, oh, well, then we need to go. But I had been you know, I internalized a lot. So in my head, I'm, like, you know, working through this, and we get there. And sure enough, you know, spent that whole car right in transition. Don't recommend that. Nobody wants to be in a car in transition. That was horrendous. Get to the hospital and, yeah, I was you know, they do the the check. Right? It's like, yeah. You're eight eight centimeters. And the nice thing about that is they don't make you do any paperwork when you get to the hospital that close. So I spent spent some time in the pool there. Well, a
Speaker 3
lot of hospitals do. You got you got lucky that if they put that off. I've seen I've seen women, you know, near crowning being made to sign stuff and answer questions. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's that's cruel. That's cool. Well, we got up. I remember we're in the elevator, and I'm, like, writhing. And I I'm keeping it together, but she didn't push the button. And she's like, oh, shoot. I'm sorry. We're just standing in the elevator for, like, three minutes. And we get into the room, and I get into that tub. And I had these blessing wave beads that my beautiful women made for me up in the Sierra Nevadas, in our hometown. And I'm holding on to those, and handling it, but it was intense. And I was I started vomiting, and I've been vomiting that whole pregnancy that I knew that was gonna be for some and I probably called that in a little bit. And so they gave me an IV for water for and she could not find my vein. And then it's like, sit still, and that is the hardest thing to do when you're sitting in a tub in transition with bright lights all over you. Right? And she's my whole arm at the end of it was black and blue. She finally got it. That was a mistake. It was like, you know, then you're tethered to this thing. And sure enough, then the projectile vomiting comes. So bless my doula's heart who's, like, holding this tub, like, catching it, and he's like, are you done? I'm like, no. I'm not done yet. Yeah. And then, you know, of course, it's like the the thing. You can't stay in here. Now you gotta go lay on the bed. You have to lay on the bed. And they're, like, trying to offer me nitrous gas, which because I you know? Oh, you don't wanna have an epidural, which I guess isn't as uncommon in Santa Cruz or, you know, I knew quite a few that had done it there, but they put this mask on me. I'm like, get this off my face. Like, I can't breathe. Like, you know, no. Thank you. Uh-uh. So, and then
Speaker 3
It's barbaric.
Speaker 2
It is. It's you know? And it's like and I'm you know, whether it's coming from a good place or not defeats the fact that it's
Speaker 3
like Of course it's not. Making all attempts to drug women in labor is not coming from a good place.
Speaker 2
It's coming from an indoctrinated, like, this is what I believe is what I'm supposed to do to help you. And it's so far from the truth. Right? That's not what we need as women in that moment. And there's a fear that I had with his birth was tearing. I had this weird hang up on what it would feel like to tear. Of
Speaker 3
course. It's not weird. That's really common.
Speaker 2
What is? Totally. But it, like, just and then you realize, like, it's so intense. Like, you don't even really feel it in that moment. But I remember, like, okay. Now you need to bear down. And there was so much even though I made this whole birth plan, like, no coach pushing, none of this. Right? Everything gets kinda thrown out the window. And my body wasn't ready yet. Even though he came really quickly, like, knowing what I know now, I wasn't ready to push. And so I pushed against it, and I pushed hard because, man, I've been trimming goat poofs and hauling hay and doing all this. Like, I was ready for that push. And what happened? I tore because I pushed against my body. I didn't feel the tear, but it's just interesting because that never happened with my next two births.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So and then, you know, the Pitocin, all that. Right? It's like then it's like the massage just I remember, you know, and then getting stitched up. He's so beautiful. Have him on my chest. Right? And it's like, that was excruciating. You know? I mean, that was probably worse than the birth was getting stitched up right after. Of course. Just insanity. And we stayed there for two days, and then, you know, that was the start of my motherhood journey. And, one of the big pivotal moments where there is I knew I wasn't gonna vaccinate. And so that was what really started going down. You know, I didn't I didn't take any of the vaccines through my pregnancy. I know that was, like, a crazy thing that people looked at. They're like, what? You're not, you know, always pushing back. I'm like, no. No. I'm not gonna do it today. You know? Not and I just, you know, held firm on that. I'm glad I did. This is something that kinda came up in my, like, teenage to early adult years, is where I started to learn a little bit more about this, but not as much as I know now. Right? Because I didn't really need to. When you're a person by yourself, you're like, oh, what? They push one of flu vax on you a year? When you have a kid, what is it? I'm like seventy six now? Seventy six vaccines in, like, the first year or so. It's crazy. So, that kinda started this journey. And I remember in you know, or me off to this trajectory, and then it's expected of you that you go to these wellness visits. Right? Like, I don't know why in my head I didn't realize that any of this was optional. It was like because
Speaker 3
they don't say it is.
Speaker 2
You don't say it is. So you're as this person that's, like, type a, I'm like, oh, I have to do this. And then I'm just following along. And at one moment, I'm like, why the hell am I going to these visits? Like and I remember our pediatrician, she was actually she was she's like, yeah. You don't need to be here. She was I got lucky in that department. She never And
Speaker 3
you got some basic honesty?
Speaker 2
I got some basic honesty. And I always I needed to scratch beneath the surface because I was really sick as a kid. I was in and out of the hospital. I highly believe that that was because of a vaccine injury. Right. And, and that, you know, I went to fibro I had all this stuff. So I pushed and asked for her because I needed her help because you can't get any of testing done. You know? You have to have somebody in the medical systems help to do it. And we found out that, he has the MTHFR gene mutation. Like, I you know, so I was really grateful that I didn't I knew enough to not put him through what could've what could've happened if his body could've really suffered from given the added layer of that inability to detox. Right? And then I just stopped going. And, you know, and she was actually supportive of that. I could use that that tool when I needed to, if I absolutely needed to. Like, if he one time he smashed his finger at a daycare in the door, and he it was bad. So we needed it. But otherwise, you know, stop doing that. Boy, was that a stress relief, not getting pressure to, you know oh, you're not gonna do this fax. You're not gonna do that one. What about this combo pack? You know?
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 3
A combo pack.
Speaker 2
Combo pack. Good old combo.
Speaker 3
Okay. Wow.
Speaker 2
So then with, you know, if we can shift, I can go into kinda Juni's. You know, this kinda started my trajectory, and it's so okay. Actually, this is a good point. I found Free Birth Society podcast on a shortly after he was born, I think he was probably I was on maternity leave for about two months, two maybe three months total, and then took him and my husband with me on my next trade show, which was he was born on June twentieth. The trade show was in September. So really didn't take a very long maternity leave at all. But on one of those upcoming business trips is where I found your podcast. And this really kinda kick started this whole Like, what? You know? And I remember it was, one of the stories was, like, how the love on this woman you know, she has this beautiful pre birth, and then the women are tending to her as equally as they're helping to tend to the baby. And this concept of, like, I think a lot of us, we get lost. You know, everybody comes visits you after birth, you know, at least for me. And they're like, oh, let me see the baby. There's no tending to you as the woman, a part of the baby, the nourishment that comes with that. Right? That was a big moment for me and and something I really wanted to call in later. Mhmm. But this, you know, I consumed your podcast just like crazy. It was like, wow. This is beautiful. Like, this this feels right. Right? And, like, this is this is awesome. And, you know, June wasn't wasn't conceived till, you know, she they're two years apart. So there's this journey throughout that stage of, you know, really learning and leaning into my motherhood and who do I wanna be as a mom, what am I providing my kid, right, and this holistic lifestyle that is very contrasting to how I grew up. Mhmm. Right? Like I said, I was in and out of the hospital. So it was kind of like and for me, in no man's land. I I didn't, you know, really know how to navigate this. And, you know, working in corporate, like, all these things are expected. Well, then we get into my COVID baby. Right? So that's the whole the whole other side. So, yeah, I can I can talk through that a little bit? Yeah. Yeah. So we consciously called in June. You know, and all the while before that had been listening to Free Birth Society, been diving in a bit more, joining some more, like, homeopathic groups, like, ways to to figure out how I could even just, like, treat myself. And, you know, this will come to kind of a head when we talk through Millie, but, like, what are the tools out there, the resources, the natural resources that I have and the natural abilities? And where's the community. Right? And I didn't find actually your community till a bit later until we actually connected after June. But this was the start of it where the seed was planted at that point. Right? So with June, we called her in, and I kinda started back on the same course and then realized, like, okay. I wanted to have a home birth this time. I got, you know, back engaged with with the, on-site doctors and realized, no. I wanna do a home birth this time. And I think I had the thought of, like, maybe free birth as an option. It's hard to think back, but I maybe that I I wasn't capable of that yet. Or how do I do that? Right?
Speaker 3
And excuse me. Medical midwifery in the home is really until until you're the wool is, like, lifted, it really seems like the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2
It does. That's what it felt like at that time. Yeah. I knew so many women, like, beautiful women that had had their home births. Right? And the thing is is it's every person is unique. Every, you know, midwife versus midwife is unique. And I would say that as I compare both stories with James and June, June's birth was much harder. Mhmm. And this is what I actually contacted you for is to unpack from the birth trauma that I I left this situation. So coming in with this mindset if I'm going to be safer at home, right, I this is more comfortable for me. I mean, you know, his birth I when I left his birth, I was on top of the world. I at that time, because I felt, you know yeah. There was stuff I didn't like. You know? They're like, let me check you, and I'm like, get your fingers out of me. Like, no. I'm in the I'm trying to do my thing here, and I don't need to be, like, fingered while I'm doing it, please. Like, but they you know? Oh, okay. That's expected of me. When we get into, you know, the midwives, I'm interviewing a lot of midwives. This woman came recommended to me by my my close friend, and, I love her to death, but I know she didn't necessarily know. You know? It's hard to know exactly how each one operates. Right? Of course. And I felt that
Speaker 3
Also also a lot of women that are recommending their midwife haven't critiqued what's happened to them. So, like, of course, they still had sutures and directed pushing and da da da da da, but it happened on her bed. And she got to be fed right after, and she got it so much better in some, you know, like, crazy cognitive dissonance way that unless they're critiquing what they had, you know, they're just recommending more medical intervention without even really grasping it.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Well and then it yeah. And it's kinda like you say it. It's actually when you flip the switch, and I've heard you say this before, it's almost worse when it's in your home own home.
Speaker 3
It can be.
Speaker 2
Yeah. When you start to look through that lens. Because then it has it's it's not like you get to leave the place and never look at it again.
Speaker 3
It's also, like, the sister wound. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
You
Speaker 3
know, like, it doesn't you kind of expect to be treated, like, robotically, you know, be a number in the hospital. Right? But when you endear yourself to one specific woman for months and she's in your home and she meets your kid and she hears your dreams and then does the same bullshit, that betrayal can cut so much deeper, of course.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that was a lot of this because I found her, and I felt like we we connected. I really thought I did my due diligence of saying, like, I really wanna have my own autonomy. I don't need someone to be, like I don't want you, like, touching me and all this stuff. What I need is when I I come to the transition this is what I said. At transition, I just need someone to affirm me, to hold space for me. Right? I I really wanna minimize checks. I don't want this, and she seemed good with that. Yeah. So that was a part of kind of, the journey with her was, you know, I I'd interviewed with, one of her other people. This was a this was should have been the red flag is that she was really, like, hands on is her partner that she works in the business with. And looking back, I should have tuned into that. So fast forward, but, we had been evacuated from the CZU fire.
Speaker 3
Oh, right. Wait. Wait. I want to ask a question before you get into that. I'm wondering, like, below the surface, like, if it's true that you only wanted someone to affirm you, why did you hire a medical provider?
Speaker 2
Well, probably because I think on the deeper level, there was the anxiety. Right? That, like, what if something goes wrong for me? And this is I had to pack with Millie. This is a lot of, like, the fear unpacking. But at that time, I didn't acknowledge that. Right. Right? I just
Speaker 3
an important thing to flush out for all these women listening. Right? Because we say stuff on the surface level, and it doesn't mean it's not true. There's just also
Speaker 2
Trace it back.
Speaker 3
Like, you you know, why not have a friend or right? If it's just the affirming and transition, like, dig I'm speaking to listeners. Like, dig deeper to be honest about what you're really wanting to see if it's in alignment.
Speaker 2
And I think that's the key thing is once you can find out what it is, then you can tackle it.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
You have to allow yourself to lean in. And Yeah. And fear is, like, fear is a part of a a part of our journey with this. Right? Because there's so many voices all around us telling us you can't you can't do that or birth is scary or this or that. And so we have to, like, unpack all of that. And that's something I had to do is with her is I think I I called the medical midwife in because I had that fear. And even at that time when I didn't acknowledge that or I gave myself, like, this vanilla this vanilla icing to, you know, make it feel better. Like, oh, I just want you to in transition. I think what was really there is, like, can I do this? Mhmm. I don't know. You know? And so I had that fear of, like, well, as I look back and I reflect, I opened my space up Mhmm. To become sabotaged because I did not unpack my fear.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Because I didn't acknowledge or allow myself to acknowledge that fear. Right? And then do the work. Do the work in it. You know? And I didn't have to because I had someone there that I could just, like they could just tell me what to do. Right? And that's
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you also didn't know yet that medical midwifery is birth sabotage.
Speaker 2
I know. Well You know? Yeah. And now I know is, like but I I guess I didn't even, like like, try to consciously look at that. Like, what is this gonna really shape out to me? Right? When when I'm was essentially offloading my responsibility and my my autonomy to this other person. Right? Like, of course, it's gonna be sabotage because I'm literally like I mean, and we'll get an I'll I'll talk through how this happened in the sense of, like, you know, like, e even to fast forward a little bit, even why I I didn't have a water birth with June because I didn't fill my own pool. Was I looking you know? All of a sudden, I was looking for her to do that like, to tell me that it was okay to do that. You know? Like, when I look back and take radical responsibility, right, I had I was trying to take my power back by having a home birth by trusting, you know, somebody that I thought would be in in. But why am I trusting somebody else when I'm the one that you know, I'm the most powerful one here. I'm the birthing mother here.
Speaker 3
I Should you should you know that, though? Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. And should I allow myself to know that? So that, you know, started the trajectory with her. And before birth you know, right before I gave birth, we were evacuated. So all all of a sudden, I was kind of sent on this, like, spiral. And I did all my prenatals. I did my my stuff with her. I did a few even in, the doctor's office, like, just to keep it was a lot easier to get paperwork through them. So navigating, like, high-tech maternity leave is demanding. They require it's not necessarily demanding. They just require, like, check boxes checked and proof. Right? So it makes it, like and I'll well, I'll share when we get to Millie's how I navigated that Mhmm. By not engaging in this. Right? It's totally doable. Mhmm. It's just thinking outside of that checkbox. You know?
Speaker 3
And, like, of course, high-tech corporate requires and and is set up to integrate with high-tech pregnancy. Like, of course. Of course.
Speaker 2
Overlap. So, like, great. You know? All these great forms, like, easy for us to put in your file, you know, on each side. So, yeah, with, you know, with June, I didn't really I had extreme nausea with her, but I I didn't have to go, through the the the intense sickness. So that was nice. Makes sense. Yeah. And it's interesting because, you know, whatever the stigmas of boy versus girl pregnancy. We did I did the ultrasounds with her. I didn't do nearly as many as I did with James because I was so I was so I was so sick with James that it was like when I am saying that in quote and I'm doing quotations here because I wasn't it was just a part of my pregnancy story. I was, you know, I was nauseous and throwing up the whole time. I wasn't actually sick. There wasn't something wrong with me, right, as I look back, at least in my opinion. But they you know? Oh, we gotta give you more ultrasounds because of x y z. And I followed that. With June, it was just the standard stuff that they put me through, and I felt followed through with that. I wish I would've I didn't know what I know now about them. Why were you evacuated? We were evacuated from the CZU fire. So that big fire that came ripping through the Santa Cruz mountains, was, like, three miles as the crow flies from our house. And so that that was the fire that burnt all the old redwood groves down, all the old the redwood forest down. And I remember that night, Emilee, I was it was so hot. We don't have AC. We had fans, and and we had a dry thunderstorm. And I remember the power going out and laying on the couch and being like, please just give some rain. Please just, like, cool this down. Like, so pregnant. Right? And, like, this is hot in the dead of summer because she wasn't she was born September tenth. So it was, but that night is when the fire started because all the thunder it there wasn't you know, it was dry lightning that came through. And so we were evacuated for two weeks, had to get all the farm animals out of there.
Speaker 3
Oh my god.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was intense, thick smoke. I mean, ash falling from the sky. It was so it was gnarly. It was really intense. Went too much
Speaker 3
Second second crazy ass drama right before you give birth.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I know. Isn't that weird?
Speaker 3
Lord. Let's break that cycle.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It changes. Okay. Good. But yeah. So we're you know, I get back in, I think, a week and a half before I gave birth. I'm supposed to have this home birth. It was it was intense. My mental state was intense again because at that time, I wasn't I was doing a home birth at my home. Right? And where am I gonna give birth? I remember having, like, other women opening up their spaces to me. I went and toured a few spaces. We weren't sure if we were gonna get back. We weren't sure if our house was still gonna be there. Like Woah. You know? And being prepared to have a newborn. Right? So it was intense. And, but luckily, you know, I I navigated through that. There was a lot of fears that came up, and I don't think it set me up for a great stage in my birth. So get back into the house and, you know, just to kinda summarize here as we got through this, it's it she my water started leaking the day before, and that was new for me. My I my waters didn't break with James till I was pushing. So but threw me for a loop, and she wasn't born till the following day, like, thirty five hours later. Right? Which I was grateful that she actually didn't medicalize that. She didn't force me to go in. She wasn't you know? But, when it came time for her to finally show up the following day at about eleven thirty, I my labors are now becoming very precipitous, and she did not believe where I was. So we got caught into this kind of, like, tandem of where she checks me. I knew she I shouldn't have let her check me. I was five centimeters, and that was at, like, twelve forty five.
Speaker 3
You're also a second time mom who had a primary first birth. Like
Speaker 2
Yeah. And just to put it into context Last birth, I meant. Not first. Five centimeters. June was born at two sixteen.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 2
And so mom. Time she wanted to leave. She was like I felt like she thought I was dramatic. And so but this goes into that. Like, right, where I had to acknowledge this when I went through my stuff with Millie or my pregnancy and my birth with her is, like, why was I outsourcing to her? I was. I was looking because and this is a part of the journey of unpacking your fears and acknowledging yourself as an individual in this space. Right? Like, yeah, there's scary stuff that we have to work through as women, like, that we might be holding on to, but give yourself the the grace to see that. And then you can heal from it. Right? But I didn't do that with her. So I, you know, I was like, hey. I'm I'm feeling really close. And she's like, I actually think you're plateauing. And I'm like, what? And she wanted me to go walk around the property that was thick smoke. It was dark outside, and it was noon. It was like black skies.
Speaker 3
What? Howie literally who would ever say that to a mother?
Speaker 2
And she told me to go god. Go walk the property or go take a nap. So trying to heed her advice because for whatever reason, I'm, like, trying to waddle my way to bed, you know, probably edging on transition at this point. It was excruciating. And then she's I'm, like, having contractions. Like, I'm losing my head because I'm in this I'm in this rift. So I'm Right. And then she's like And
Speaker 3
she's gaslighting you in labor. So to tell you that what you're feeling isn't actually true and, of course, she knows best because she's the authority, and you've already set that up with her. So she's literally gaslighting what is real for you in your body as you're about to birth.
Speaker 2
And then I'm second guessing now my body.
Speaker 3
That's what gaslighting means. Yes.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So then then she says this to me. She's like I say you can't go. I'm not gonna be able to call you. Right. I mean, but I'm not saying it that calmly. Right? I'm like because I'm popping out of my head. And she goes, oh, that's great. I love when husbands call. And I'm like, no. You can't go. This is, you know, probably very shortly before I give birth. And she goes, you are here. You need to be here. We'll know when you're there.
Speaker 3
Okay. So so for people who can't see this, she's holding, like, a hand up for the middle and then holding up her hand, you know, up above above, right, to show that she's nowhere near where she needs to be.
Speaker 2
And I'm like, the the fuck? Like What? So condescending. He goes, you know what? We're just gonna go outside and go for a walk, give you some space. At this point, I'm like, I'm I'm so progressed. I'm like, I don't I don't care. Go get out of here. Like, whatever. But all the while, I'm losing my head because now we've had this dialogue where I'm like, she know mother knows best kinda thing is what I'm going through. Like, she knows best. I have a long ways to go.
Speaker 3
She's like, you must
Speaker 2
be crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what she said
Speaker 0
to me.
Speaker 2
You got a lot of work to do. Yeah. All the I know. And so I'm like, I'm hanging on my husband. I'm like, I can't you gotta call, well, the saving grace from the evacuation. Doula reached out and said, I would like to support you virtually, because you're going through all this. Do you need just some woman witnessing? Right? I was able to call her in that moment and just get some kind witnessing, and she helped me reground. Like, she didn't help because she was virtually, but just words that weren't gaslighting me Jesus. Helped me regain myself. And and then all of a sudden, I I hear the virtual doula go, she's about ready to have a baby. That you need to get that midwife. I mean, because I you know, the midwife was just checked out. This was, like, ten minutes from when she walked out the door. And, of course, my husband has to go find her a hundred and fifty feet away at the chicken coop. She comes back in. I'm on the toilet, like, in you know, shaking, sweating, with somehow holding the phone with the virtual doula. No. Whatever. And she comes in. She's like, get off the toilet. And I looked at this midwife, and I was all, I will get off the fucking toilet when I'm ready to get off the toilet.
Speaker 3
Just what bad vibes.
Speaker 2
I know. It was so she emerges beautifully. You know? I I can you know, like, we owned, my girl and I, we owned our body and our situation, our birth at that point, and I got I didn't give a rats what the midwife was doing at that point. She was shuffling Chuck's ads like there was a panic, and my husband was there with me. And I got on all fours on the couch, made my way over there, and she came out. She was halfway in, halfway out, made a cry. He's crying. You know, she's crying, and then she finally emerged, and she was perfect. But I fired that midwife twenty four hours into that postpartum because it was you know, it's a whole another story, but, you know, just the gaslighting that came with that. You know, what do you want me to tell you I fucked up? What do you want me to you know, you you had a you had a beautiful birth. I'm like, no. You you you weren't listening to me. I was telling you didn't do your job. You were literally not listening to me, and you were gaslighting me. I was telling you that I felt pressure, and you told me I'm not going. And you
Speaker 3
Remember how you hired her to hold space during transition, and instead, she gaslit you and abandoned you and went and hung out with her your chickens? I hope she listens to this episode.
Speaker 2
I do too. It was it was tragic. It was like but in this Do better. Yeah. Do better and and listen to women. Listen to women because we actually know something when we're going through that. Right? Like so the the big lesson was that was no. Wait. I do know. I knew my body was close. I was close. Yeah. So that that started the journey, unfortunately, threw me in, obviously, into a weird postpartum depression because it was like a a starting this birth in this crazy way. So that really led to this healing journey for me of, like, why am I this people pleaser? Why do I just go with this flow? And this is a big theme with Millie's pregnancy. Is like, you know, why am I not leaning into myself? So to move through that and this is where we connected, Emilee, because this is where I reached out to you on that healing journey is to unpack that. Right? So I kinda full force go into this, I need to own my voice. I need to own my voice and who I am as an individual, and why is this conditioning that I've gone through what is it? Let's acknowledge it. Let's put it all out there and face it. Right? It's ugly to face, but that's the only way we get through it. So Brian and I do a huge change. We move across the country, connect with you, and, you know, start calling in more like minded women of, like, this is the kind of life I wanna live. Right? I want to I wanna live in my voice. I wanna live and, and protect my children and and heal from whatever I have that I'm carrying. Right? So we move across the country to Maryland, knew we wanted to to call in another pregnancy. Absolutely beautiful journey. And we get over here and and call in a a third baby. And this is where it really starts into this. Right? Where I really test myself, and I I go through this stuff.
Speaker 3
And do you know at this point that you're doing a wild pregnancy and a free birth?
Speaker 2
Yes. I knew that I wanted a free birth. I knew that I wanted a wild pregnancy. However, I had to get there. So, with with this pregnancy, I'm you know, we're we're still, like, in the throes of of kind of the COVID ash things. People are working from home. The company I'm with at this time and still currently, it's long hours, really demanding schedule, and I I get I'm sick again. I'm just all day. And I'm like, I can't do it like this. I'm not gonna do it the same way I did before. So, eight weeks, I went in to get the diagnosis because I need I needed something to share if I was gonna take a leave. And that was my plan is if it kept going on like this, if I couldn't create scalability, I was gonna take a leave so I could find that scalability. Well, this is what kinda puts me into the forefront of really having to face my, my people pleaser. This is, like, kind of the theme that I go through in this pregnancy of finding my voice. We're in there and, of course, you know, they wanna onboard me and say, no. I don't wanna be onboarded as patient. I just I just need this diagnosis. Like, I need this formalized. And they go, okay. Well, we need to give you an ultrasound. I'm like, I really don't wanna do an ultrasound. I say no several times. Right? And then, no. We'll just do it for two minutes. And I agree. And and so in you know, she did. She snapped one picture. It was quick, but I left there going, man, I'm doing this. I'm engaging this again. It did end up becoming helpful for me to have that one when I fully left. But, this is where I reached out to the community and the free birth community. And I and, actually, you gave me you know, pointed me to the homeopath that we can do a really beautiful friendship, and I started to find my own health journey. So I we agreed that I was gonna do some get a full panel of blood testing to see because I have had gastrointestinal issues, like, my whole life. I've been struggling with severe heartburn, esophagitis. Never wanted to take the, like, the whatever whatever they call it, Prilosec or something, you know, for the rest of your life. Didn't wanna do that, but maybe this was contributing to what I was dealing with so intensely in pregnancy. So what's this healing journey look like? Right? So I go back in at eleven weeks just to get the blood panel, just to get the blood panel for the naturopath, because it's covered by insurance. And they coax me into another ultrasound. And I left that, and I said and that was totally unnecessary. It wasn't needed. Like, it wasn't needed. Right? And I it's like, I'm never going back into this. I'm not for nothing. I'm not gonna go back into this system. I can't. And then I had to face myself of, like, why am I people pleasing like this? I say my words. I say no. And then, you know, it it gets, like, whatever, right, worn down a little bit, so I really had to face that. And so I I took stood away from every other thing. Right? I never got onboarded officially as a patient, but I was like, I'm gonna take full radical responsibility for me as an individual from here on out from here on out. So from that eleven week mark on, I did what I wanted to do. Right? I I went and I I got acupuncture when I felt like I wanted acupuncture to help with my anxieties or my, like or the the nausea. I worked with this Nature Path to work on my diet, and I I cut and went to a therapeutic diet to, like, really regain my health. And it was heal it was extremely healing to tune in and see what is my body saying, what does my body need. Right? Working with nature natural medicine, and it helped. I mean, I still was sick the entire pregnancy, like, you know, nauseated, but I was able to take it with a new light. I owned it. You know? And I was like, okay. This is something that's happening to me. I'm it's gonna happen. Whatever. What do I wanna make of it? You know? Like, what's this I'm not gonna be a victim in it anymore. It's just gonna be what it is, and I'm gonna connect with my beautiful baby. I'm gonna connect with my body. And so I used a fetoscope if I you know, at, like, twenty weeks, like, trying to find just trying to learn myself. You know? Can I find baby? And I found baby. You know? And it was the most amazing relationship because even all the while while I'm still working in the same kind of work I did before, I'm taking ownership for this part that is so intimately mine. You know? And and loving that. And and so as the pregnancy was progressing, there's the fears that come up. Can I do this? Right? The stuff that I never allowed myself to face before really or really acknowledge before. And it's real. And, having to, like, to meditate on that, and and my goal was is how can I get into better a better relationship with myself? What is my inner voice telling me? Is this intuition? Is something wrong? Or is this fear? And each time I sat with that and, like, actually really sat with that, I realized it's fear. K. Where is this fear coming from? You know? What can I do to feel better about this? Do I need to do I wanna educate myself more? And as the the personality type that I am, I like to have information. So I did that, and I read, you know, and I and I cleared what I could for myself. Right?
Speaker 3
Was there a particular tool or, like, sequence that you would utilize to discern between intuition and fear? Because that's a common, question that I will get. How do I know if it's intuition or fear? And I know my answers, but I'd like to hear what your discovery process was.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think that's a really good question. When I it was very meditative. Like, when I'd really sit with myself, I knew everything was fine. Like, when I really sat, but there was this, like, this haze of fear in front of it. Well, what if what if what if you have some shoulder dystocia? What if you there's a nuchal cord? Right? What if what if this? And I knew that there was nothing, like, even gestationally. Like like, I I lost twenty pounds this pregnancy. Like, I lost twenty pounds because I threw up multiple times every day. But I knew, like, there could have been a there could have been, right, oh, something's wrong. There was a fear. Right? But I knew in my, like, in my soul that when I really actually sat with myself that I was fine. I knew
Speaker 3
was just it was you just taking the claiming the space to just stop and tune in Yes. And really get present, and then it would be obvious.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And then if I needed, like, when I when I would tune in, if I would say, okay. I need some, like I need some witnessing or I need some medicine. Like and when I say medicine, I mean, like, a a chiropractic adjustment or just, like, or some body work or, like, the acupuncture. I would give myself that. Like and and that was, like, self care. Right? And so and then I would leave those feeling, like, witnessed or feeling held. Like, I would try to make make relationships, like, even with the naturopath and talk through some of these things. Talk with trusted people that weren't trying to give me medical advice, but were trying to just hold space with me. And that was, like, a sense of therapy, right, for me on my own journey of, like, I'm feeling like this and to actually say it out loud or even talking with my partner, like, acknowledging. Like, sometimes it's not pretty. Like right? You know, sometimes you're I remember right before, you know, getting really as you it was easier in the beginning because I felt really confident in, like, my pregnant pregnant body. I knew I was, you know, okay. Yeah. I feel sick, but I knew I was healthy and fine. I would do things for myself, like, if I felt like I needed to, you know, like, I started getting headaches at one point. I'm like, okay. Well, I'm just I'll take my blood pressure if I felt like I needed to do that. Like, if there was something I felt I needed, I did it in the sense of, like, listening with a fetoscope or, like, palpating myself. Right? Nothing like going in, but, you know, taking Exploring yourself. My blood pressure. Yeah. Exactly. Like, exploring my own capabilities to to take what I needed for myself, but not at the hands of somebody else. You know? So I wasn't off power. That makes sense.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So before we get into Millie's birth story, is there anything that you want to articulate about the choice to free birth? And, like, why not just hire an even more hands off midwife just to be safe, like what most women do.
Speaker 2
Because anytime you let somebody into that space, you're sharing that space. And I knew that after that experience with June, her energy would be in that space. And it's it was it it needed to be a sanctuary for me. I didn't want anybody else there. I didn't want I just wanted my at at some point, I didn't even actually know if I wanted my partner there. You know? Like, I had this beautiful vision. Like, maybe I would just be in the middle of the night by myself. And I think it was, like like, some parts were scary. Like, yeah. Would it be scary to be alone? But then once sitting with those fears and, like, unpacking that, why am I feeling scared? Oh, because if something happened. Well, I just knew it wasn't going to, and I prepared myself. Like, if, like, shoulder dystocia, for example. Like, that was one thing that came up for me. Right? Like, what about shoulder dystocia? Well, I'll bend my body. I'll move my body. My body has never been afraid to birth. Even with June, it wasn't afraid. I was never afraid in my body when you're actually in that zone. And I held on to that and knew that, like, I can try if I can lean in and surrender and trust my body and let go of this this analytical mind here in birth, everything is gonna be fine. And if I let somebody else into that space, I run the risk of sabotaging that. Right? Of off off putting my power. And so this is a part that actually came up even with an RBK, because who's a great friend of mine, and she's very kind. But, I needed to find someone to help me with my kids because I wasn't sure when I was gonna give birth. And that was probably one of the points that was, like, the most stressful for me is, like, who's gonna be here so that if I want Brian with me, he can be with me to witness our our child emerge. Right? And some like, you know, my kids are taken care of. So I focused almost a little bit more on that. It was weird. It was like but I also didn't want somebody else in my space. I needed somebody that was comfortable with birth that wasn't gonna call Totally. Or something on me. And I ended up not needing any of that because they were asleep.
Speaker 3
Exactly. I know. But we need the backup plans.
Speaker 2
So then, you know, the other part that helped me work through my fears is actually I was listening to one of your podcast with sister Morningstar on it, and she was doing the newborn's first breaths. And she said something that really stood out. This is as I was getting farther through my pregnancy. I've been doing all of my own prenatal care, getting to know my body, getting to know my baby, listening to Yolanda's birth affirmations, which were amazing. And then I heard sister Morningstar call out something that said, you know, you need to unpack your fears before birth. And I had this fear of stillborn for some reason that kept coming up, and it came up in June's birth. So I actually reached out to sister and not for necessarily help in the birth at all, but just to, like, how what are tools I can use to unpack this and just have, like, wise woman witnessing? That was another really cathartic thing. And we ended up kindling actually a really beautiful friendship and connection that was, like, very organic, very natural, right, like, came together for both of us. And she offered to actually like, if I needed support in birth at any point, you know, I could reach out to her or which I didn't feel like I necessarily needed. You know? But it was really nice to have that offer and actually did come in handy, for one chapter in the third stage. So we continued on, with the pregnancy. The I was in prodromal labor for probably five days before, and the night of, I could feel things coming in waves. I had a really bad flu before that. And so I was in this denial state of, like, feeling like, oh my gosh. I'm having, like, a leg of this flu coming back on again. So at, like, one thirty in the morning, I'm, like, up. Like, oh, great. Here it comes. And then go back down and lay down. And all the while, I'm actually in labor, but, like, not acknowledging it. Right? And at that stage of getting into this birth, I remember, like, when I fully released all my fear, and it was the day before. And I remember this feeling of peace, and this is really key, is I was like, I am ready. I am ready for this to happen any way that it's going to happen, and I'm going to own it. Right? And that was a really beautiful thing of surrender. And lo and behold, like, it started to take shape at that point. And I remember it was so easeful, like, starting into this. So at about, like, two fifty five in the morning is when I finally came to the conclusion, okay. I think I'm actually in labor. Right? This is actually getting really intense. And I was like, I better call my husband and have him come up here and help me fill this pool. Because at this point now, I don't think I could fill the pool because I've been in denial thinking that I have a weird leg of this flu lasting. And he comes up and, very graciously, I'm you know? It was so calm. Everything was so peaceful. And Emilee, like, literally, it just went into full force. Like but there was no fear at that moment. And so the only thing that came up as it was progressing is he's up there. He's filling the pool. And all of a sudden, like, fifteen minutes into it, I'm like, oh my gosh. My body is, like, pushing. And I'm like, woah. Woah. Woah. Wait. Wait. So now, like, all the the work I did, right, to prepare, I'm like, this is really quick. And so I'm, like, taking full ownership. I'm checking myself. Right? Like, I'm like, okay. I'm gonna see. I can feel, like, something. And I'm like and my body is pushing. Like, in you know? Like, I'm not doing I'm just in that moment. And I'm like, well, this is quick. So I started to doubt myself for a second. And then not doubt myself, but going, this is really quickly. This is happening really soon. And I, you know, I said he goes, oh, you think the baby's gonna be born when the kids are going to school? And I'm like, oh, no. No. Nope. I think this is gonna happen really soon. This is at, like, you know, three o'clock in the morning, three fifteen. He's getting the pool ready. I'm, like, leaning over stuff. My body is pushing. I'm like, oh my gosh. My body really is pushing at this stage. And I'm like, do you wanna check me? And he's like, me check you? And I'm like, well, I don't know what I'm feeling
Speaker 3
because this is like I don't either.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But just like these sweet moments of connecting, like, the raddest. Right? And I was like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. No. I got this. And, but that was the stage. And then, you know, the pre prep before that is, like, working with sister Morningstar was, like, you know, just surrendering, letting go as we were talking through this. Like, you need to just let it wash over you. And I remember those wise words and and the knowing in myself and myself journey is, like, this is just gonna be what it's gonna be. Your body is amazing, and it's got this. So he gets the the pool ready, and it's literally only got twelve inches in it because we ran out of hot water. And I'm in the pool writhing around. I think I actually Googled what does ten centimeters look like right before getting in that pool, Emilee. And it was like a bagel. And I'm like, well, this can't be a bagel. Forget it. Let it go. And literally, it was I, you know, I check myself again. I feel the waters bulging. My body is, you know, bearing her down. The waters rupture. It was beautiful. It was crazy. I feel her drop into the birth canal, and it was like everything split open. Not in a bad way, in a powerful way. And it wasn't really painful. It was intense, but it wasn't really painful. And as soon as I surrendered into that and let that thinking mind go, everything started taking shape. I took the washcloth. I was holding it holding it over myself underneath the water, asking my husband, you know, get in here, and he's, you know, he's behind me, but I'm like, she's coming now. And this is all in a span of, like, maybe twenty minutes, right, from, like, it just happening so suddenly. And all of a sudden, her head's coming out, and he catches her. I had thought at one point, do I wanna catch her? But, it felt right in that moment that I wanted his hands to be the first as I held my body and gave and gave way to that. And he passes her over to me, and it's just the most incredible moment of power of, like, it happened. It can happen this quickly this quickly. Right? And I'm in the in the pool with her, and I I pass her over my legs, sit in there for a while and get out, and then it's time I felt it was the time to birth the placenta. And I lean over this pool, and this is where or this bowl. And this is where it kind of takes a little bit of a turn because as the placenta comes out, the membrane stay in and separate it from the placenta. And I wasn't concerned at all. I, you know, I think, you know, that could have been a place where I could have sabotaged myself. Mhmm. But, I wasn't in that moment, I was fully in peace and in power. Like, she it was the most beautiful I would I would even hear to say painless experience of this birth, intense, but but pain free compared to June's where when I was losing my head, it was excruciating. It was the most painful thing I've ever experienced. But when allowing it to wash over and fully surrender and trusting your body and unpacking those fears, it was incredible. And there was nobody else there to outsource to. Right? There was nobody there to give me a gaslighting dialogue or anything. My husband just held presence. He was calm. So when this placenta came out and the membrane stayed attached, I tried to tug on them, they wouldn't come. And I'm like, okay. Well and he's like, well, is this something to be concerned about? I'm like, no. Not right now. I'm not bleeding a lot. But this is where sister Morningstar's offer really helped because I was able to take notes. She was in Nova Scotia teaching this training, and, you know, had no cell service. So I text her over WhatsApp a picture to the few people I said that I would, you know, asked when she was born. She goes, how is everything going? I said, it's great, except for there's some there's part of the placenta is stuck. And she's like, what? And so I sent her a picture, and she walks me through of turning the membranes, twisting the membranes like a rope. And I'm trying. I've got the baby. I'm twisting the membranes. They're still not coming. You know? All the while, and I didn't know this until I connected with her at your festival, is that she was twisting with me, chanting on the other side in Nova Scotia. Bless her beautiful heart. So I finally had to take it a little more seriously and pass the baby over to Brian. You know, she was now connected to her placenta and her cord detached from me and really twist and twist and twist that membrane. And I ended up moving to the bathroom because I tried multiple times, and I moved to the bathroom until I could get in a squat and twist and twist. I had to use a paper towel because it's so slick. You know? And I wasn't scared. I just kept visualizing release, release, release. And finally, it was much larger than I thought. It was, like, a good, like, probably softball ish size, and that's what it was stuck. It was stuck on the pelvic bone. And so I twisted it and I pulled, and I knew everything had come out at that point. But that could have easily been a part where I could have fallen away and and transferred. You know?
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Well, and a lot of, yeah, a lot of women that I have talked to will make up that that that trailing membranes is retained placenta. Yeah. You know? Which, you know, they just make it up because, like, no one knows anything. Right? We're all just, like, in the very early stages of reclaiming all this birth education. Right? And so, yeah, sometimes I'll hear these transfer stories of that they made up that it was retained placenta, and then it really was just trailing membranes, and they just didn't know. So I'm so glad that you had sister as a lifeline. And, yeah, that spiral move is a cool one to share on the podcast.
Speaker 2
And you just for everybody listening, you really have to twist much more than you think you have to twist. So if that It depends. It depends. Yeah. I mean, it was long enough Yeah. Twisting at the end wasn't enough. And but it then when it was done, it was fine. You know? But but the other thing that sister said is actually she thought that that was a second placenta, that there was a potential that that was an absorbed twin, which is interesting in her teachings when she looked at it it because I sent it to her. So there's all different variations of normal that we go through. Right? And after that stage, it was it was fine. You know? There was but, also, the unpacking of the fear before that of learning to tune into what is fear versus what is intuition, I knew in my intuition, everything was fine Mhmm. And everything was fine.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And doing
Speaker 2
that that work. And I will say that Yolanda's birth affirmations were really helpful in this pregnancy of listening to that. I think from about thirty weeks on, I listen to that every evening just to have a meditative mode. And there's the thought that when you train your brainwaves before you go to sleep Mhmm. Right, you carry that, like, that that reprogramming. And so, you know, part of those resources is really helpful when you can go in with that calm and know that there I think there's a line in there. She says, I have fear, but, what is it? I have fear, but I am not the fear or something she acknowledged.
Speaker 3
Think it's I feel fear, but I'm not afraid.
Speaker 2
Yes. I feel fear of fear, but I'm not
Speaker 3
I love it's one of my favorite favorite lines.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That resonated so deeply because Mhmm. Anne going through this and navigating this and stepping out of what is, quote, unquote, normal. You know? Even there is you can feel fear, and that's normal. That's fine.
Speaker 3
Of course. That's fine with it. Epic. And then you're like, yeah. Three months postpartum, I'll just come down and vend at MRF and crush it. You had the prettiest booth.
Speaker 2
Oh, you're so sweet. Yeah. That was that was a that was a whole trial in itself. Just with the newborn, but it was awesome in the beginning.
Speaker 3
Mud triarch rising. Next year will be more chill.
Speaker 2
Well, next year, it won't be, like, a ten week old baby stroking my chest, and setting up a booth with all these totes. Right?
Speaker 3
Mm-mm. And No. Yeah. It'll be easier. Next year is our year of ease. It's gonna be the full moon on solstice. No rain.
Speaker 2
Yes. It's gonna be beautiful. So excited.
Speaker 3
I love love love love your stories. It's such a journey, and I know so many women are going to just resonate with your take on it and and just be so inspired by your evolution.
Speaker 2
Thank you so much, Emilee. I really appreciate it. Yeah. It's it's a beautiful beautiful journey that we all go through to get where we need to be. Right? Unique to each of us.
Speaker 3
Proud of you.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 3
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of sovereign birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
