Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Hello, women. I've got a great episode for you today. I am bringing you the bright and oh, so charming Bebe, once medical midwife turned free birther and now holistic midwife. I love when that happens. Before we get started, I am wanting to remind you about our retreat this spring with elder midwife sister Morningstar and myself. I'm calling it midwife within, not because it's for midwives. It's really for any and all interested women, but because I understand that for most of us, maybe all of us, there is a midwife within, a maternal caretaker that aches to know the ways of the village midwife. I've dreamed of offering this retreat for a long time, so I'm really excited to open it up to you, to host you on my land, and to take you through what will be a truly magical five days. I mean, a village prenatal on Mother's Day with sister herself. Come on. You can register at matriarch rising festival dot com slash midwife within, and you can always email us with any questions you have at info at free birth society dot com. Okay. So Bebe became a licensed medical midwife at nineteen. She had never heard of free birth. But when she became pregnant with her own child, it was an obvious no that she would expose herself and her baby to, well, where she worked. This is an important story. Enjoy. Phoebe, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3
Hi, Emilee. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2
This is gonna be more interesting than I even realized.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I can't wait.
Speaker 2
Okay. Let's get right into it. So all I know, it all I know is that you are a registered midwife in Australia. You have three babies. One is a set of twins. You free birth all of them. So there just feels like so much ground for us to cover here. So why don't you just start wherever you want? We know which comes first, the midwifery, the medical midwifery or the baby, and just take it away. Tell us who you are as you get pregnant with that first.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. So I did my studies in midwifery when I was nineteen years old. Oh. And, yeah, in Italy. Then I came to Australia. I did uni again. And then I started working in the system. I when I fall pregnant with my first baby, that was two in two thousand eighteen, I was working, in Queensland. I was building, refugee clinics. So for women that were coming from refugee countries, we were doing continuity of care. So they will have semi wives from six weeks up and, from twelve weeks up until six weeks. And that's when I fall pregnant with my first baby. It was a very interesting time of, my life because I've started to notice that was my first time being with the woman for such a long time. I've always been part of the fragmented care at the hospital, and that was normal to me. First time being involved in continuity of care, and it was very exciting because I was seeing how women actually had positive birth, positive breastfeeding. Everything was so normal and so perfect. And so I thought to myself, well, that is what I want as well for my pregnancy, birth, and, you know, breastfeeding. So when I was pregnant, I decided that I wanted a private midwife because my idea was to have a home birth. Mhmm. Because as a midwife, I've seen it all at the hospital and for me, it was not going to be my safe, place. As we say to women, you should birth where you feel safe. The hospital was not gonna feel safe to me as a black woman, as a midwife, as the person that I was. So I wanna
Speaker 2
Do you mind pausing there for a second? Yeah. And I'd love to hear a little bit more about, you know, from this really inside perspective of you working in the system that's so profound that you, through your profession, come to realize that the hospital will not be safe for you and your baby. Can you articulate how you came to know that?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I think, like, what refugee women taught me, and I feel like everything was just, like, all this story, it was just also meant to be for me to be here in this moment, you know, because when I took the job with refugee women, I knew nothing. Like, I was just a baby. I knew nothing, you know. And they just said to me, like, oh, baby, it's fine. We just have babies. And I'm like, what do you mean? They're like, no. It's just normal, you know, because they're coming from countries where it's hay that you get that baby out vaginally or you get it out vaginally. Mhmm. The end. So when they came into Australia, it was just the same. So whenever they call me, you know, they're like, okay. We're ready to have a baby. I'll get into the hospital and off you go, baby. There's no labels. Nothing. Baby. I was like, wow. Like, what is this? You know? And I just learned that from them that labor and birth actually can be easy if we just let them be. Mhmm. And so for me, I was like, I just wanna let I just wanna be let be. You know? I don't want people to touch me or just come into my environment. I just wanted to just have my birth as I wanted at home in disturbed, and that was it. That was my dream.
Speaker 2
So you just you came to understand that as you learned trust in birth Mhmm. You came to understand that couldn't unfold that way in the hospital. No. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but that sounds like No.
Speaker 3
Not for me. Not for me. Because for me, it's like when I go into the hospital because I work there, I was working there, I could anticipate any everything. And so that would have put some somewhat a level of higher anxiety for me. Because I see a trolley. I know you're gonna you want a put an IV in me. You know? So so I was like, I see the future when I go in. So for me, I was like, no. I could not have I
Speaker 2
mean, you just you just know the truth. Yeah. It's just you understand how it works. It's interesting because I I think the vast majority of women, mothers who work in labor and delivery and postpartum, you know, they're such a deep part of the cult that they they they submit themselves to go through the assembly line as a part of fitting in to the culture in which they work. You know what I mean? Mhmm. Yeah. And it's pretty, like, it's pretty not acceptable in a lot of hospital culture I've been exposed to to not go through. Yeah. So, anyway, I appreciate that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It can be intense.
Speaker 2
So you come to realize birth works, f the hospital, I want a private midwife. What happens next?
Speaker 3
Well, I hired a private midwife thinking this is the best thing that I could do. Supporting a colleague, having my private midwife. And then around twenty weeks, I had my morphology scan. During this morphology scan, they found out that I had three fibromas about five centimeters each. In Australia, when you do have a private midwife that has got hospital rights, every month they do a case study. So they have to show the women that they are going to attend the home birth. So my private midwife is showing my case with my three fibrin fibromas and the obstetrician at the hospital because she's got rights at the hospital in case, you know, she has to go in. It just means she doesn't lose the care of the patient, of the woman. So the obstetrician said, well, she can't birth at home. She's going to hemorrhage. She can die and oh, yada yada yada. You know the story. So she came to me and she said, well, you can birth at home. So
Speaker 2
It's interesting how how the system uses the intentionally uses the opposite word. Like, a private midwife. Right. And in England, independent midwives are not that at all. Like there's nothing private about what you just described because private leads us to believe that this woman works for you. Yeah. It's so tricky.
Speaker 3
Yes. So that day for me was the end of the world. I started crying so much. Yeah. My eyes were coming out of my face. I was driving home, got home, couldn't see the road, had a little accident in my garage. Oh my god. I was desperate. Almost had a panic attack laying on the floor being like, this is the end of the world. So my husband was really gentle with me. I'm like a bit, you know, dramatic, of course. So he held space for me. And at one point, I don't know where, out of the blue, I was like, what if I just do it by myself? Yeah. You know? And so I fired the midwife. I was like, you're fired. I don't need you. You know? Because I wanna have a home birth. And then I start googling, and then you came
Speaker 2
up. Oh, wow. That's amazing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So the previous society came up. And I think maybe there was like a Facebook group could be a twenty eighteen. Twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2
That's before all the drama.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So I started the research and I'm like, what what is this free bird? I'm like so keep in mind that is like beginning of two nineteen. Yeah. I have been a midwife for ten years. Oh my god. No idea about free birth. No idea that women could consciously you know, choose to just birth at home without a midwife. Right. And I'm like, what?
Speaker 2
Wow.
Speaker 3
And that's when I decided that I was going to free birth. Mhmm. With my first son.
Speaker 2
And so that that's the second half of your pregnancy that all of this is coming into view for you. So, yeah, just tell keep telling us the story. What happens next and how does it work? So
Speaker 3
So yeah. So I dropped everything. I was like, okay. Well, that's it. I'm just gonna have a free bed. I was, like, so happy, you know? But I did something very stupid of me because I was very naive at that point. I was really a baby. Like like the version you see today of me, it's oh my gosh. Goddess, really. You know? But I was a baby. And so what I did is I told my colleagues and I told my manager and I'm like hey you can free me. And my colleagues the first thing she said to me is like yeah but what if you kill your baby? Yeah. And your baby is like dead. Yeah. Like and, like, if you're not, like, in the system, you don't, like, really know, but this kind of conversation, it's, like, every day. You know? You could kill your baby. Your baby could die. This can happen. This other thing can happen. Like, it's very normal. This type of, I guess Frederick. Talking to women that are pregnant. You know? Mhmm. But I was pregnant as well, and I was very fragile at that point. And, I understood very quickly that I had to protect my space. And so from that on from that day, I was like, yeah. That's fine. I will birth at the hospital. So I just said that I was going to birth at the hospital, but I I knew that I wasn't going to birth at the hospital. I told my husband, I got him ready. I said, we need to do this.
Speaker 2
How worried, were were you about the fibroids? Like, did that
Speaker 3
Oh, no.
Speaker 2
Mess with you at all?
Speaker 3
Nah. Nah. Nah. Like, honestly, when she said that for me, I was like, this is just an excuse. Is that silly? You know? Like, all women have fibroids, and we do we do know that during pregnancy, they can become a little bit bigger because of the hormones. So I was like, I don't care. You know? Like, it wasn't a bit for me, it was like something so silly that I'm like, I can't believe you're telling me I can't birth at home for the possibility that I'm making.
Speaker 2
A hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, you're speaking to a midwife. You know what I mean? So I was like, no. Like, no. No. Really.
Speaker 2
So And you're speaking to a disillusioned midwife.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right? Specifically. Yeah. Sadness. I was like, nigh. Nah. Nah. Nah. Nah.
Speaker 2
Okay. So what
Speaker 3
happened then? Lock it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You lock it down. You're like, oh, shit. This is a totally different terrain. I'm not telling anyone. Of course, I'm in a birth at the hospital.
Speaker 3
Uh-huh. Yeah. So to do that, though, because I didn't wanna I didn't want them to know anything about me in the hospital where I was working. I went to another hospital to do a booking in visits. It's just a visit. You say you're pregnant. Yes. Okay. You're good. Bye. So went into the visit. So I'm I'm quite small, short. I'm, like, about one fifty five, one fifty six centimeter. So I grow my belly at the front. Right? So the obstetrician looks at me and he's like, and he's like, oh my gosh. Your belly is so big. I don't think this baby is gonna come out vaginally. We need to do a scan like that.
Speaker 2
You want with a scan show? Like, this is such a it's such a dumb freaking thing.
Speaker 3
Oh. I know. And keep in mind, I was already thirty six weeks there. You know? So I was ready. You know? So I said, okay. That's fine. Just I didn't wanna do any drama at that point because I was so in tune with my plan that I was like, I'm not gonna make anybody ruin it. So I said, that's fine. Just give me this sleep. I took this sleep, left the hospital, put it in the bin, went back home, and just kept doing my thing. Right? That was our thing. So I was like, yeah. This is what I'm going to do. And then, around forty weeks, roughly forty maybe plus one day, plus two. I don't even know it. The contractions started. So before actually the contractions started, I said to my husband, I think we're gonna have a baby tomorrow. He's like, what do you mean? I said, no. No. No. No. I think we're gonna have a baby tomorrow. So I said, let's go for a walk. We went for a walk, came home. We had some spicy food, and then, I used some clary sage. I said, let's just have this clary sage and tomorrow we're having a baby. It's like, okay. Because my husband is in the fence. So the twenty fifth, he had to go on March. So we're like, we need to have the baby before the twenty fifth of April.
Speaker 2
Goodness. Oh my gosh. Okay.
Speaker 3
So I was like, yeah. Yeah. We're gonna have a baby. We're gonna have a baby. So, anyway, on the night of the twenty fourth, I started having my contractions, and they were just normal, like, Braxton Hicks, I would say. And it was about midnight. So I didn't wake up anybody because I used to have those all night. So I was like, sounds pretty normal to me. And then, I think around I started, like, turning on the shower because it's like, I'll just go in the shower and see whether they go away or not. Because I'm like, I always say to women, just go in the shower. If they go away, then that's fine. So I'll jump in the shower. So went into the shower, and they were still there. So I woke up my husband around one AM and I said, I think I'm starting to be in labor. So maybe just start, you know, the bowl, the candle, like, all this thing. Like, I just wanted everything perfect because I was like, nothing has to ruin the best day of our life. You know? Like, nothing. So around one so I was feeling well, to be honest. I was feeling well. I was happy. I was dancing. I was I was smiling. I was so full of joy, you know. And for me, I was not in labor yet. But at one point, I threw up. So when I threw up, actually, my mom woke up because my mom was here from Italy. So she woke up and she's like, are you okay? And I said, yeah. Yeah. I'm fine. I'm just, you know, I just dropped. Fine. Right? So the contractions started and they're just coming, but not painful. Like, there was nothing painful at that point. So I said to my husband, look. I've been a midwife for ten years. I know how these things go. I'm a prime rib, so I was talking to him as a midwife. Right? Medical professional. I'm like, I'm a primate. This is my first baby. You know? It could go for thirty six hours. So how about you go and take a camera? We'll take some pictures or put some clothes on. But I said, let me just check before you go. So I put my finger to see how many centimeters I was, and I could feel the head of the baby, but I could feel the cervixes. I was like, ladies, like, two two to three centimeters. I'm like, that's fine. Just go. So I send him out. It's two fifteen. Send him out. And then I was just, like, drying myself and getting ready. And then at one point, I just beared out and yell, and the head came out. Oh god. So my husband, like, quickly come in, and he took a picture of the just of the head. And he's like, what the and then I'm like, and that's it. And the baby was out. That is chill. That's it. But I also love
Speaker 2
I also love pain.
Speaker 3
No. No. Nothing. No pushing. Nothing.
Speaker 2
This is amazing. I also love the medical midwife in you in the room, doing what they all do, thinking that the centimeters means anything, you know, And and, like, talking yourself out of it.
Speaker 3
No. Not even.
Speaker 2
Wow. And his little head just comes right out. So how from one PM, when is it or sorry. One AM. When is it now that he's born?
Speaker 3
Two eighteen.
Speaker 2
That is fast. Very. But pain free.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Amazing. No pain. Nothing. So I was like, oh, this was, like, so easy. I'm like, I can't believe I just did this. You know? It was extremely easy and as I when he came out he didn't even cry that freaked me out because I'm used to like baby coming out and just crying came out and just looked at me Like
Speaker 2
that. Peaceful.
Speaker 3
Peaceful. And I was like, I didn't know that babies could be born like just like looking at you and and that was it. Wow. And that was it. And then the placenta came as well, like, two minutes after. There was no bleeding. Nothing, like it was all good.
Speaker 2
Wow.
Speaker 3
It was just a very quick, like yeah. Quick. Fast. Amazing. So I knew I needed some stitches, so I did go later to get the stitches. And it turned out that it was a third degree. But it was like a physiological third degree, so it wasn't like they just put stitches and everything was normal, went back. I discharged myself. Actually, they're like, oh, no. You have to stay here two nights with the catheter and everything. And I was like, no. So I went, got a syringe, got my catheter out, and I said, give me the paper. I'm out.
Speaker 2
And are you
Speaker 3
look out.
Speaker 2
Are you now because that was, what, five years ago? Or four years?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Four years and a half ago.
Speaker 2
So are you, like, hip to the the truth about vaginal tearing now that, like, you didn't need that? And, like, of course, that that will heal
Speaker 3
and you just don't know. When when everything happened, I was like, what? I got a third degree. I'm like, no. Just take a picture. I do not believe you. And they took a picture, and it was a third degree. And that was, like, it was so fine, honestly, that because when like, whenever I saw third degree, they were provoked. I mean, an episiotomy extended, a forcep, a ventilator, like, provoked third degree. So those are, like, nasty. Mhmm. Mine was that I just a normal tear, I guess. Like, just a tear. And I always say to women, don't be scared of tear because you'll be fine.
Speaker 2
But you but I'm I mean, like, do you now know four years later that the sutures weren't
Speaker 3
necessary. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that
Speaker 2
you would have totally healed.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's interesting. Yeah. This, like, this whole thing that we're all doing of just, like, just, like, climbing out of our medical programming and our our conditioning and just every every year and every baby, we just learn so much.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know, it's amazing. So you go and then you come back and that sounds like somewhat undramatic.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I understand.
Speaker 2
And then who are you now? Like, now you have this free birthing baby. You're a registered midwife. And what happens next?
Speaker 3
I breastfeed the baby for twenty one months.
Speaker 2
Naturally.
Speaker 3
So I was just like being a mom. And then I was like and then you know COVID hit, my husband went away for seven months. Woah. And I thought, yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was here by myself with my kid, couldn't leave Australia. So I was like, okay. I'll just go I'll go back and work. So I was just doing part time, like, two days a week, and, it just kept me sane, really. I needed something at that point. But when he was back, I was like, I'm ready. Let's go again. And so I was ready. So I fell pregnant, and, during my I was really sick, so I had to go to the hospital around eight weeks because I I just couldn't I couldn't even open my eyes. I couldn't even walk. So I went in there and they're like, oh, we're just gonna do a scan. And I'm like, no. You don't need any scan right now.
Speaker 2
What did you what did you go in there for? What did you want them to do?
Speaker 3
Fluids. Just needed some fluids because I was throwing up, like, anything, everything. Like, I could not keep down, like, anything. It was it it was crazy. So I just wanted some fluids so I could go home and keep living my life. And so yeah. So they gave me fluids, went home, and then a couple of weeks after, I went in for my first scan. And surprise, they were twins. So I cried. And I was happy, but I also cried a lot. Of course. So intense. Because I wanted to have a free birth again. And I was like, well, now I need to have a seizure, and I have to have, you know, scan every two weeks. They have to measure the babies, the placenta, the floors. This was going all through my head. You know? This was me. And then I was like, I was going to work, and I'm like I went on your podcast, and I'm like, let me see. Twin free birth. And then someone had free birth, the twin. Of course. Someone in our y. So if I'm, if I can remember right. Someone from our y. And so I listened to this story, and I went down the rabbit hole. And I'm like, what? You can actually free birth twins, like, naturally at your home by yourself? And so I started, like, researching and just informing myself, educating myself, and I was like, so you're telling me that I don't need to have a Caesar. I don't need to have all these cans, and I can also have my free birth the same way I did with my son.
Speaker 2
And in fact, that's the safest, healthiest possible route you could take.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It
Speaker 2
is. Like, you think the hospital's dangerous for a medical midwife, black woman, all the stuff with a singleton.
Speaker 3
They're gonna just put
Speaker 2
you in surgery and risk your life. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I was like, for me, I was like, I'd rather die than have a Caesar. That was me. You know? And I
Speaker 2
was like, no.
Speaker 3
No. No. No. No. No. So so I didn't tell my husband straight away. I was going to prepare him for this I think it was a big bigger thing than, you know, with Milo because there were two, there were twins. And so what happened is we went for the morphology scan, and we were just, like, kind of we were still into the COVID situation. You know? Mhmm. So I'm sitting waiting for my morphology scan, and let's say the room is about twenty meters from when I'm where I'm sitting with my husband. And they're like, oh, he can't come in. I'm like, why? Oh, well, you know, new rules, policy, whatever. And I'm like, who do you think put these babies in me? And he is sitting next to me. I mean, like, that's not about you. Us, whatever. You know?
Speaker 2
It's not even about you. It's also not about logic.
Speaker 3
Yeah. As we Exactly. So I kind of had a panic attack then. And I just realized that if that is something that I really want is the support of my husband. Yeah. And that day, I really made the decision, and I said, you know what? I tell you what. We'll do the scan, and then you'll never see me again. And that was it. That disappeared. Nobody knew what I was doing Mhmm. Unless you check my Instagram. So I didn't do any more scan. I didn't do any more antenatal visits, and I just live my life, live my pregnancy, went to the beach every second day, and, listened to your podcast every day. And then there was also another group on Facebook, reading to stories and, trusting my babies, trusting my body. And, yeah. And I was ready for my next free birth. Okay.
Speaker 2
Take us into it. How how did that all go?
Speaker 3
So I think the pregnancy with the twins, it's been very challenging. Not challenging for, like, yes, my body, but challenging because I received a lot of negativity. People were saying to me, you are so crazy. You're going to kill your babies. You are so dangerous. Wow. It's been really hard and very difficult to because at that point, I had already three hundred thousand followers on TikTok and, you know, lots more. Yeah. It was a
Speaker 2
Oh, so this was all online, what you're referencing. So were you public? Mhmm. Yeah. But let me make that let me make sure I have that. So you were public on your social media about that your plan to free birth twins?
Speaker 3
At that point, yes.
Speaker 2
Oh, well, of course, it was insane.
Speaker 3
Of
Speaker 2
course. Yeah. But they love that.
Speaker 3
At that point, yes. I was public. So what happened is that at one point, I was like, okay. I need to I need to really, you know, protect my space now. Protect my energy, protect my babies. And so I kind of, like, disconnected a little bit from everybody, and that was really good. I was really happy about it. And, people thought that, you know, I will never get to past thirty seven weeks. So Christmas day, I'm like, thirty seven weeks, and everybody is like, merry Christmas. Are you pregnant yet? Are are you still pregnant? I was like, yeah. I'm still pregnant. Really, really pregnant. So after that, I was about thirty eight weeks and two days, and I said to my husband, okay. We're ready to have the babies. That's it. Because New Year's Eve was gone and everything was fine. They were past the thirty eight weeks. Like, I wanted them to come after thirty eight weeks because, you know, a lot of time between thirty seven weeks, a little bit, like, they don't suck well, the breast. And I wanted to breastfeed as well. So I said they get
Speaker 2
Your your reference point with twins is surgical twins.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Right?
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Because I've seen physiologically born twins at thirty five, thirty six, thirty seven weeks, and they suck just fine.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know? But the damage of of the assembly line in surgery is is profound.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I I know and I think, like, it's has to do with a lot of things, you know, like, everything that is just putting, you know, the stress, the skin, like, the ultrasound, like, all of that, you know, together. So I just stayed away from everything. Thirty eight weeks and two days, I'm like, okay. We're ready. Gonna have a babies babies tomorrow, I said to my husband. So went to the beach, had a nice day at the beach, did some squat in the water, came home, went for a walk again because I know what works, and then, he burned the sage. I'm like, yeah. Sage is gonna do their thing. So I burned the sage, went to bed, and then around four AM, my water broke while I was in the bed. So I just run into the bathroom, and then, like, just as in the movie, splash all the water, like, on the ground. Right? And that, again, my midwife came up. You know? I'm panicking because I'm like, oh my gosh. I broke my water. It's no contraction. Like, this is gonna take forever. I'm gonna sit here three days waiting for this contraction. I'm like, no. No. No. No. No. You are coming now. Suck it to the babies. So I started squatting using some clary sage, walking, like, doing all the things just because I was like, no. I'm so tired. Like, I'm not staying here waiting for you. That's it. It's go time. And then at five AM, I had my first contraction. I was so happy. Like, this, it felt like a contraction. Like like, it wasn't painful, but it felt different from the Braxton Hicks. So I was like, yes. So I woke up my husband. I said, hey. Hey. Hey. We're gonna have babies. So I woke him up. And then after five minutes, I have another contraction. And then after five minutes and then it's about five twenty, and I've had about four contractions. And I said to my husband, maybe go and wake up my mom so that, you know, we are all here. Because my mom there's a lot of story back, but just to make it short, my mom had twins. So I have twin sisters. Aww. However, yeah, when, she was having she had the first one, it was kind of a accident. Baby just came out. But with the second, everybody panicked in the room. They put her to sleep, and they did, like, a a long longitudinal, so a vertical, incision. And so
Speaker 2
she woke up. God.
Speaker 3
This was in Italy. So she woke up, no babies, not knowing where she was. They also left half of the placenta inside, so she had to go back. She had an infection. The babies were in the NICU, which was, like, three kilometers away from where she was. So for her Wow. There was a lot of trauma there. You know? And I wanted and I needed this birth to go the way I wanted to for me and for her. So I woke her up. So I said to my husband, it's five twenty. I've had four contraction. Go and get her. So my husband go and get her, and the first baby comes out. Did
Speaker 2
she get to see the first one?
Speaker 3
Nobody was there. Just me. I was like, what? And they're like, what happened? What happened? They came in.
Speaker 2
Does she live with you or she just was staying as the baby?
Speaker 3
She came from Italy just for the baby.
Speaker 2
She lives in Italy. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. She came from Italy for the babies to be with me for three months because in my mom, she's from Nigeria. And in Nigeria, when your daughter, like, becomes a mom as her mother, you have the duty to, you know, be there for the birth for the birth and the postpartum.
Speaker 2
Beautiful.
Speaker 3
So yeah. So she came for for that. Mhmm. So yeah. So the first baby came out come come out, and I was like, oh my gosh. There's no picture. There's no video. Again. She was fine. Just the cord was shorter. So I was planning to keep everything attached, but, unfortunately, the cord was too short, so we had to cut. So we cut the cord. And, because during the scan, they told me there were two placenta, I was waiting for the placenta. But the placenta didn't come. So I said, I think I need to focus for the second twin. So I gave the baby to my husband, and then I said to my husband, can you just, like, put the camera so that, you know, we can at at least have a video of the second twin? Then I'm like, just take some pictures of me in the meantime. And this is, like, five thirty five.
Speaker 2
Having this pain free fork contraction burst.
Speaker 3
Look at me. It's amazing. So this is like five thirty five and the contraction started to pick up again finally. And I was like, okay. Yes. I'm ready to do this. I'm ready and I'm ready. And the second baby, was breech. So I was waiting for a breech baby. What happened is I had a cramp in my leg, so I beat down. And as I beat down, I could see my mom that she was scared. Mhmm. She was very scared in that moment. You know? And it's like I was about to bed, but I couldn't. And so I look at my mom, and I said, mom, you have to get out. Yeah. You have to get out. And so in that moment, she got out. She just went out. And as as she stepped out of the bathroom, the baby came out. Oh my god. Wow. And that's the video that everybody saw I've seen. It's just a video of the baby, like, just coming out, you know, that I'm just, like, putting the baby up like that. Because literally, the baby just flew out, and that was it. And she was head down. She was in breach. So she must have turned maybe. Who knows? But she was head down. She was, sunny side, posterior. Didn't even notice that someone told me not long ago. I was like, oh, really? Well.
Speaker 2
Who cares?
Speaker 3
And, after that, I cuddle the babies, had to cut the cord because placenta the cord was too short. Cuddle the babies, and then I'm like, okay. We gotta get these two placentas because there's two more placentas to come. And then I felt something really big, and I thought it was a third baby. I'm like, oh my god. What the no. What is this? And all of a sudden, one gigantic Yeah. Placenta comes out
Speaker 2
Connected. Yeah.
Speaker 3
By that. And I was like, oh my god. Huge.
Speaker 2
Yeah. They're huge. Huge. Wow. Beautiful.
Speaker 3
And that was it?
Speaker 2
I bet that felt like a third baby. I wonder if that's not copy weighed. Gosh. So one came out then and you cut the cord, and then the other came out and you cut the cord. Mhmm. And then the placenta came out and it was too fused, essentially?
Speaker 3
Oh, we will never really know because it looks like one placenta to me. But let's say maybe they fused. But we will really never know because if you looked at like, I've seen fused placenta, and that looks like one placenta. Yeah. But you both
Speaker 2
they're like well, like, I've seen I've seen twin placentas where it's like two like, the umbilical cord insertion is there's two on one big one versus, like, two placentas that come together
Speaker 3
Oh.
Speaker 2
And they're, like, their own big old placenta, and there's a fusion point.
Speaker 3
Yeah. That make sense? Yes. Yes. I think, like, even, like because then after three hours, I went into the hospital, and they didn't know even.
Speaker 2
Why?
Speaker 3
I had them so what happened there? Well, this is a bit of a backstory. So I was so scared because I thought I told myself that I was not going to have, like, a just a quick birth. I wanted to I wanted to, like, control, like, the end of the birth because I didn't wanna have, like, a third degree. I went to have, like, a small degree, so I was I was going to stay at home. But the burden was so quick that I was like, no. I did it again. So my fear was that I had split more than before because of the two babies. My husband see. My mom couldn't see. I couldn't see. My belly was still really big. I couldn't bend. So I said, alright. You know what? We'll go to the hospital. So I called them. I said, look. I'm just gonna have eggs. Gonna have breakfast. Gonna breastfeed the babies, and then I'll come and see you. You check down there, and then I go. Plus it was really easy for paperwork as well. So went in, got my paperwork. They checked. It was a tiny tiny one. You know? Not it wasn't it wasn't a third one. So I said, yeah. That's fine. You can put stitches and then I'll go. So they put maybe one or two stitch. I don't know what they did, but I was like, okay. I'm going. So then I left and came home, and the baby slept for, like, ten hours and so and so did I.
Speaker 2
Did they just stay home with mom or dad?
Speaker 3
Yeah. With your mom? No. They came yeah. Yeah. They came with me. Kids came with me. Yeah. Yeah. They came with me, and then we came back home. And then, that was it. I breastfed them. Had a lot of milk. Each twin had the the breast. They fed so well. One of the twin, has a tongue tie. Mhmm. They didn't even notice at the hospital. I noticed because she was chewing on my Right. On my nipple, you know. But that that was fine. Like, she's she's attached really well. She breastfed until thirteen months then she win herself out, which was very sad. And the other one is still breastfeeding. So
Speaker 2
And how old are they?
Speaker 3
They are twenty one months now. Okay. So they're gonna be two in January. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Wow. Amazing.
Speaker 3
Yes. And I think the the next part of the story is that for me, this birth was, like, I felt like I was reborn. I was reborn as a as a mother, as a woman, as and as a midwife. Like, I I truly understood what type of work I want to do in this world now as a midwife, and it's very different from what I learned because I've got two degrees in midwifery. It's very different from what I learned and from what I did, you know. And now I I know what I want to do, of course, but, unfortunately, after the birth of my twins, I had a lot of negativity. A lot of people coming at me, and it was not easy at all. And so that was, you know, the other side where people were like, but what if what if that happened? What if that? What is that? It was really dangerous what you did. You shouldn't talk about it. And all of that. And that is also why, like, for one year, around for about one year, I was just like, shall I tell my story? Like, shall I let people know that, actually, you can do this? Actually, we are meant to do this. Actually, like, our body can do anything if we let it do and if we trust it. You know? And it took me, like, a very long time. And then I went to Bali, and I had my vision, let's say, that way in Bali. And I was like, no. I need I need to talk. I need to speak, and I need people to know that you can have a beautiful birth. Like, you absolutely can. And for me, I cannot even imagine where I will be or what person I would be if I haven't had this birth with my kids, you know. Totally. They were, oh my gosh, transformational transformational.
Speaker 2
And, like, that kind of stuff, like, the the what if. Oh my god. It's so dangerous. Like, it's beneath you.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Like, it just it it's nothing. It's gnats on a windshield. It's nothing because only completely indoctrinated, you know, like, agents of industrial allopathy are gonna troll concern, you know, concern troll you like that. Like, it's not even interesting. I mean, that's how I feel now. Like, it's like somebody's saying somebody's saying, like, but what if is so ignorant and and, like, low consciousness, and it's only speaking from their own unknowing. Right? That's, like, someone who knows birth, someone who knows themselves doesn't give their agency over to the state. Period. You know? Someone who knows themself, an embodied woman, an embodied mother doesn't show up at a facility and surrender herself and her baby. So when when, you know, the system, anyone within it, which is everyone, sees women like you, it it's like it's like it doesn't fit into the reality that they have been groomed into. Right? And, of course, you must speak because, unfortunately, so many women and mothers have been caught up in the evil web of this. They're not they're not idiots. They're not trolling you. They just genuinely don't know. And that's what this podcast has really done. Right? Is is like, oh, shit. I mean, there's thousands and thousands of women now that are are just, you know, trailblazing this lighting this this new path. Anyway, I mean, this is this is I would want everyone to hear this because anyone anyone of you who's going to do anything like this publicly is going to get the same little collection of bullshit. And an embodied woman ultimately is willing to learn how to generate our own sense of approval. Right? So that we can stand in our truth. And if you are a woman who still really cares what everyone else thinks, that's your work because you're not living a life for yourself yet. And when you do, like, the path gets shown. Right? It's it's not complicated. And there's so much, you know, here for us in motherhood, in pregnancy to wake up to. Yeah. I love your story. So would you say more before we end about how this has changed your midwifery vision?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yes. Well,
Speaker 2
it has changed. To.
Speaker 3
It has changed in a way that, I thought to myself I look like this is like the truth. I thought to myself, okay. What I'm going to do is I'm gonna go back into the system, and then I'm gonna try and change thing in the system. Right? Uh-huh. And I did it for, like, four months, and I'm like, f this. I am out of here.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like Look. Look, girlfriend. If you can't birth there, you can't work there.
Speaker 3
Right? I I was just like, what what not. Like, what is going on? You know? It was just like yeah. No. I just couldn't. I just couldn't. Like, I tried, and I just feel like and, you know, like, what I was saying to someone today, you know, it's like literally, it's like you saying, hey. We're just going to hell, and we're gonna try and make the devil change their mind. And it's like, no. No. So now the work that I do, it's all from the outside. I try to do it, like, through social media as well a lot, and just try to educate a little bit more, women because as you said, I think like and even for me, I just did not know, you know? And so I truly know that there is a lot of women out there that they just don't Mhmm. Know. And not just that, they just living from a place of fear, of course. And then when there is fear, everything is clouded. And for me, I'm like, you know what? With my twins, I had such a strong intuition. Like, I I visioned the birth. Like, I knew the birth was gonna be that way. I told my mom. I told my friend. I told my sister. And it and it went exactly that way. So I had such a level of intuition that I'm like, what if women all had this level of intuition. Yeah. Without all the noise that means that you could actually tell me when something is wrong. You could actually tell me when you know that everything is fine.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And so I guess my work now, it's kind of gotten deeper. So I am working more with women to help them to find that intuition, especially during pregnancy to be able to tune with the babies because, you know, birth is like an initiation. Initiation for you as a mother and for the baby as well. And we don't want the women to be in a trauma and the baby to be in trauma because that then get passed for future generations. So I guess my work now, it's more there. It's no clinic anymore. It's not clinic at all. It's all on another level.
Speaker 2
Yeah. How could it not be? Right? Like, you can't have those birth experiences get initiated into the ecstasy of birth and the possibility of birth and the reality of birth, and then go back to an inherently abusive hierarchical hierarchical dynamic with women. That just
Speaker 3
doesn't make sense. I really don't even have the energy. I've got three kids, you know?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, it's not in alignment with what you know to be true.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Amazing. Any oh, so how can women find you? I'm sure they'll wanna find you. I have
Speaker 3
a lot of different social media, but for the English speaking, it's your underscore holistic midwife. So you will see English content there. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And that's Instagram?
Speaker 3
Instagram. Yeah. And TikTok as well. TikTok is b b your holistic midwife. So k. Yes.
Speaker 2
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you staying up late so that I could hear your story and
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me and, like, I knew this day was going to come because when I was listening to these stories, I'm like, I'm gonna go on that podcast. I'm going to story of my twins.
Speaker 2
Yeah. All of it. And the midwifery evolution is so powerful. Because I know a lot of medical midwives listen to this podcast, and they make up that they're stuck. And it's not true. It's just not true. Everything is a choice, you know? And so hopefully
Speaker 3
It is. It is. Inspire. Everything, it is a choice. And, you know, for me, like, what I can say and look, I've I've got, like, all my friends, midwives, they don't work in the system. We all do our things. So Okay. There are lots of us out there, and it's just a matter of, yeah, making a decision and just go with it. And it's going to be fine. Like, it will be fine. You know? Like, we are doing the right things. We are on the right path. We just have to keep going and trusting trusting women.
Speaker 2
Right. And it's like when you are on your deathbed, what do you want to say about what you contributed to the world? And do you wanna say that you spent the majority of your life upholding industrial birth? Or do you wanna say that you were one of the women that stood for women and stood for babies and stood for health and stood for embodiment? And it just it just doesn't have to be that complicated of a of a decision, really. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so, so, so much. It was so nice
Speaker 3
to connect.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back
