Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Women, welcome to the show. This is a very exciting month over here at Free Birth Society, so listen up. First off, this episode is afire. This week, I have a young mom, Micaiah. I was really, truly blown away at Micaiah's ability to so perfectly articulate in excruciating detail how medical midwifery ruined her birth. One of the most common questions I see women ask about free birth is, how do I get my husband on board? Or I see women say things along the lines of, I'd love a home birth or a free birth, but my husband just isn't comfortable with it yet. If this is you, I'm so glad you're here. This will be a very important story for you to hear. Before we get rocking, I want you to know that we just released two more payment plan options for our springtime retreat, The Midwife Within, with elder midwife, sister Morningstar, and myself. If you're one of the many women writing into us about your interest and longing to be with us, this payment plan might be for you. We are only going to be registering for a few more weeks. We will close the doors at the end of the year. So if you are obsessed with this podcast, you've heard Sisters episodes on here. You know the deal. She's magic. She is a modern day medicine woman. She is a mystical midwife poet. She is a healer. She is a mentor to so many of us. And us coming together in this way is a really rare offering. I have no plans to do this again. And to be honest, this is a real life goal of mine, a life dream, a bucket list thing for me, to bring Sister here to my land, to call the brilliant, courageous women here, to sit by the fire, and as Sister says, speak our unspeakables, to get deep and intimate in the yurt lovingly known as the red tent, to share meals, share secrets, share dreams, to create a five day transmission of her mind blowing wisdom. It's a full on, all inclusive retreat. We shuttle you here. You'll stay in our gorgeous glamping tents with a real bed. Don't worry. You'll learn. You'll grow. You'll bring this back to your family. And have I mentioned that we're going to have a full day village prenatal on Mother's Day? You're not only going to experience the epic full day as a participant, but you're also going to learn how to facilitate these magical spaces for the women of your community. And it's worth saying that Sister will not be returning to MRF this summer as she has her own solstice gathering. So this is the way. This is the time to sit at her feet and bask in her brilliance and her generous light. Go to matriarch rising festival dot com slash midwife within for all the info. Okay. So next big announcement, and this is very time sensitive. We are running, get ready, drum roll, all that, a freaking month long, well, mostly month long November sale on The Complete Guide to Free Birth and our newest course, Compass, Foundations of Radical Birthkeeping, and we kick it off today. So The Complete Guide to Free Birth, it's our flagship course that thousands and thousands of women all over the planet have used to help them choose sovereign birth and then actualize their dream birth, birthing freely outside of the medical paradigm. We are running a fifty percent off through the end of the month, which is insane, but we're feeling generous and thought it would be fun to see how far we could watch this go with a multi week sale, something we've never done before. Okay. So then we have our newest course, another brilliant passion project of Yolanda and I. We named it Compass because it's your compass for birth work. It's the first of its kind, giving you the truly foundational language to understand this giant shift that we're going through in the birth landscape today, much of which this very podcast right here has pioneered. Compass is a groundbreaking self study program for women embarking on the path of sovereign birth reclamation and authentic midwifery. It's everything you need to anchor yourself firmly in the realm of sovereign birth and to gain the confidence you need to leave the system as a birth worker. This is entirely different from the Complete Guide to Free Birth, which is a childbirth education program for couples interested in free birth. But Compass is really geared towards women who wanna fully grasp the language, the philosophy, and the framework of the two birth paradigms so that you can stay relevant in birth work as the sovereign birth movement continues to blow up. We will be rolling out all sorts of fun things this month, so I'll just drop now that not only are we gonna be opening doors to our private membership soon, but we are about to release not one, but two amazing new courses to the Freebird Society platform. The first is an infant massage course, which I'm so excited about, and then an entire comprehensive course on understanding your postpartum pelvis and how to heal. Peeing when you sneeze, diastasis, prolapse, you name it, it's in there. It's gonna be so good. So look for that closer to Black Friday, and, yes, it's all majorly on sale this month. So for now, go grab the complete guide to free birth and Compass at half off and enjoy this amazing episode. Okay. So I titled this episode, When Your Husband Doesn't Support Free Birth, because this is such a big topic. Micaiah admits she betrayed herself in letting her husband lead on where she should birth her first child. As I said earlier, she so brilliantly and painfully articulates the horrors of the birth center and the medical midwifery practices that she endured. She learned what she needed to learn to choose differently when she became pregnant again. Micaiah shares the perfect birth story of her second attended by her darling husband and toddler. Enjoy. Okay, Micaiah. The video that that broke the Internet.
Speaker 3
I was so overwhelmed by the love and support from the Freebird Society followers. I was, like, so nervous to let the video be out there. I wasn't sure how people would take it, and then, oh my word, for days, even still, I'm getting messages. It's it was amazing.
Speaker 2
So Well, that video went really far. Like, a lot of big pages stole it and didn't credit. A lot of big pages took it and and ran with it. So, that's a whole another piece. Right? Because there's the, like, there's whatever it did on the FBS page, but now it's, like, in the in the landscape of what's possible, which ultimately is why we share it. Right?
Speaker 3
Which I was totally, you know, comfortable it being on your page. I know a lot of your followers understand, what that looks like and was pretty supportive. On the other pages, some people took it without, you know, like, permission or Mhmm. And some people were, like, I don't know, really confused. They've never seen that before. What is this magic?
Speaker 2
I can't make sense of it. Why is she touching her baby?
Speaker 3
I even saw people saying like, oh, she said that she's a doctor, and, oh, the new doctor's on the way. I was like, absolutely not. Hilarious. Oh my god. Very far from a doctor.
Speaker 2
That must be really funny for you to, well, and weird to watch your own, yeah, misinterpretation.
Speaker 3
I know. I had to I had to turn Instagram notifications off and just not look at anymore. It was like Mhmm. It was just too much for me.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I've noticed some really, really big birth ish pages have been doing this thing where they they have me blocked, but they'll troll from another account, obviously. They'll troll my page, and they'll repost my videos. I mean, not you know, they're not my videos, but you know what I mean. The the videos I first post of these beautiful free births. And so then it goes into these, like, different demographics and different populations of women who aren't, yeah, maybe totally in the grasping and understanding of what we're doing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. But, you know, I guess, how I was looking at it is, okay, it might be this person's first time because I saw, like, some nurses and doctors that were commenting. Maybe it's their first time seeing a birth like that, and maybe next time, it'll be like, oh, I saw that before. And then the next time and the next time, and the it'll eventually be normal. I don't know. But Totally. Like, it's fine if that's the first one you've seen. We all are the first.
Speaker 2
Like, that really that really, you know, like, marks where we're at. Right? That thousands of people are seeing that video, and they've never seen anything even in the realms of what is just normal birth. Like, it's a beautiful video, of course, but, like, all normal births are beautiful videos. Right? Because it's just the beautiful animal birthing her young. Right?
Speaker 3
Exactly. Yep.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's a trip. Okay. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that video. I do think I think there is there is a lot in, you know, those couple minutes that are just so perfect and so sweet and the commentary of the rest of your family. And yeah. It's, you know, it's so important that the public gets to be exposed to the other side of the coin. Right? Because we all grow up with just, like, the gnarliest Mhmm. False truths about this as you know.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Alright. And I always was I always loved birth, and I would always ask people their birth story. I was born at home, and so that was, like, my favorite thing to share because it was kind of, like, a strange thing back then to be, like, born at home. And so I would always share that, oh, I was born at home. And then, of course, people would share their, like, traumatic birth story with me, and I would be, like, eleven years old. Always get it done. Yeah. I mean, like, just for as long as I can remember, it would be, like, horrible birth stories told back to me. But
Speaker 2
So, yeah, give me a bit more of your, like, kind of arc into the first birth. So you're born at home, so there's this normalcy there, but, also, culture is doing everything you can to fear monger you. So then by the time you're pregnant, where are you at with birth with your first kid?
Speaker 3
So my husband and I were planning on getting pregnant in our thirties, and then I ended up getting pregnant when I was twenty years old. Twenty? Twenty. Oh. Oh, snap. Okay. Not quite the plan, but immediately, you know, excited and totally welcome. And so I always knew I wanted to birth at home. That was just a given. There is no discussion about it. But, unfortunately, fortunately, unfortunately, my husband has really good insurance. And so, paying four, five, six thousand dollars for a home birth midwife was not logical, I guess. It wasn't something that we were willing to do when, our insurance would cover it.
Speaker 2
And you're twenty. I sorry? And you're twenty.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I'm twenty, and we're literally like, oh, that's six thousand dollars we could, like, use for the baby and stuff. Totally. So I end up compromising. I really I want a home birth, but and I know at this point, I've heard of free birth, but that wasn't something I considered for myself. I don't know why because I definitely would've if if I did.
Speaker 2
You had already heard of it?
Speaker 3
I I'm pretty sure I have.
Speaker 2
And how old are you now? Twenty three. Okay. So this was only three years ago. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I know that, like, when I found out I was pregnant, I was watching birth videos. And even the home birth videos, the midwife stepping in and, like, the blue gloves and all this stuff, I didn't like it. And so I would watch the free birth ones more, but I I don't know why I didn't associate, like, me doing that. But I definitely resonated most with the hands off undisturbed birth. But I ended up compromising and found a birth center that was run by midwives, and I we decided to go there for the first birth. They had a tub that I could birth in, and that was, like, what I wanted. That was my priority. That's what I put all my energy into was I wanted a water birth. And when I would tell people that, of course, they would be like, oh, I tried for that and then, you know, ended up doing this and that. So I really, like, manifested water birth, and that was kind of all that I focused on. I didn't really focus on anything else. So my pregnancy went really well. I loved being pregnant. I mean, I guess when you're pregnant at twenty years old, it's pretty easy. Not for everybody, but, yeah,
Speaker 2
I love that. It doesn't act against you.
Speaker 3
Yeah. But one of the midwives at the birth center, I really like. I felt like she went against what some of the other midwives were recommending for me, and I related with her the most. So I was really hoping that she would be the one that would attend, my birth. So jump forward to thirty nine weeks. There I don't know how many midwives were in the group, but it's kind of like, you know, one is doing the, clinic side, and then there's another one on call doing, you know, the attending birth. So I meet this new midwife that I hadn't met before, and she asked me if I want a, if I wanted my cervix checked. And I said, no. Thank you. And she said, okay. You can refuse this week, but at forty weeks, we do them. And I was like, oh. I mean, so that's telling me I cannot refuse. I cannot decline. I can decline at thirty nine weeks, but no longer starting next week. I'm like, okay. And I was pretty open with them that, transferring to the hospital was, like, my biggest nightmare. I absolutely did not wanna do that. And I felt like every appointment, they were like, oh, you risk out at forty two weeks. We're gonna have to make you transfer at forty two weeks. Kind of like they were using that against me Mhmm. To pressure me into, I don't know, maybe leading up to different inductions. I don't know. So, and I was really open about I wanted my husband to catch our baby. I wanted his hands to be the first one on our baby and then bring him up to me. And in my mind, that means nobody else's hands are on him, just my husband's. So I come back at forty weeks, and she does the cervix the what's it called? The exam, whatever it is. And I'm two centimeters dilated and eighty percent of face. And so I'm like, what does that mean? And she's like, well, it could mean you go into labor tonight or you could be pregnant for a couple more weeks.
Speaker 2
It means nothing. I just had to dominate you so you knew who was in control.
Speaker 3
Exactly. I'm like, okay. So that was pointless. Did you think I was gonna come in and, like, magically be ten centimeters? I don't know. So I'm like, well, I'm feeling pretty pressured to have this baby before forty two weeks. They're trying to schedule me for, an appointment where they, like, check NST or something like that. And so I'm like, what are some things I could do to try to help myself go into labor? And she's like, well, I could do a membrane sweep. And so I said, what's a membrane sweep? And she said, it's where we go in and we sweep your membranes, which, by the way, for anyone listening, that is not informed consent. Informed consent is explaining if she would have told me, I'm gonna stick my hands so far inside you, spread your cervix, and scrape the mucus that's in between your baby and you, I would have said absolutely not.
Speaker 2
Also, informed consent implies not just the right to say no, but the support to say no. Right? The support to say no, which just like with the vaginal exam, it's okay. No for now, but yes later. Right? It's all bullshit.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it wasn't even the way she worded it of you can refuse now, but starting at forty weeks, we do it, that's telling me, don't even try to refuse or I don't know. Or you're done here. You know? Mhmm. And I just wanted a water birth so bad. So, anyway, I'm like, okay. We can try that. I was not expecting the pain that it caused. I had to cancel all my appointments the rest of the day. It was the worst pain I've ever experienced in my life. And she told me, if it doesn't hurt, then it didn't work.
Speaker 2
That is some rapey ass shit to say to you. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 3
And I was like, okay. Well, that hurt a lot. Ugh. Yeah. So she also recommended that I drink castor oil on an empty stomach, the next day. So I went home. I ended up actually losing my mucus plug that night, and I didn't think anything of it. I was just like, oh, there's that. Go along. So then the morning the next morning, I drank castor oil, on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. It tasted like licking a railroad. It was horrible. And then I had I, like, didn't want anything else to eat or drink all day. So I was so dehydrated. I hadn't eaten anything since the night before, and I just wasn't feeling good. So then, I took a bite out of the pastry around, like, one o'clock and felt instant stomachache. And my husband had just left for work. He was working second shift at that time. So I just went in the bathroom and was in the bathroom for hours, just like diarrhea, stomachache, constant pain. And I called the midwife and told her, I'm like, I'm in so much pain. She's like, oh, it's probably just from the drink. Just, you know, count your contractions and then let me know. And I was like, there are no contractions. This is constant one hundred percent pain. She's like, okay. Well, when you have contractions, then let me know. And I'm like, okay. So I end up not even being able to I can't respond to people on my phone. I can't do anything. So I page my husband at work and ask him to come home. I can't even take care of myself at this point. So an hour later, he gets home. I guess he thought it wasn't, like, urgent, so he, like, finished out the hour at work. And by the time he got home, I was in the bathtub. And the first thing I said to him was, I'm just gonna have a baby in here. And he was like, well, let's just call and see, like, what they say. So he called them. She told him the same thing. So my husband downloads an app, is trying to count contractions that I'm not even feeling. And at one point, I feel what might feel like one, and I say, okay. I think I'm having one. And the app had, like, an ad. It was an interactive ad, so you had to play a little game before. So he's, like, playing this game. That's so sick. That's so sick. By the time the ad is over, he's like, okay. And then I'm like, I think it's over. Just forget it.
Speaker 2
That's a terrible memory.
Speaker 3
I know. It was it was horrible. But
Speaker 2
It's like the technocratic system right there. Like, that is so creepy.
Speaker 3
So he's like, I think we should just have them check the baby. You know? And if everything's fine, we can just come back. And so I agree to that and have a miserable car ride there. I'm wearing, like, his basketball shorts and, like, a sports bra thing. We didn't pack, you know, any bags, so my husband, like, threw stuff in the car. And we get to the birth center, and they're having a going away party for, like, one of their employees that retired or something. And so I walk in, and everybody is, like, cheering me on as I'm, like, hunched over walking through, which maybe for some people, they would like that. But for me, it was, like, not not the time. So they put me in this exam room, and I hear one of the nurses say, to another nurse, she's, like, putting her food away, and then she's gonna be in. So then I'm, like, thinking, oh, great. I'm messing up her supper. Like, she's not able to eat. My brain is off of me and, like, thinking about them. So she comes in, like, less than five minutes later, and the nurse says she's had three contractions so far. And I remember being like, oh, I had no idea I was even having that. But, I mean, it was just painful all the way through. Somehow, my pants are off. I don't remember taking them off. I don't know who took them off. And she waits for me. I know. I genuinely don't know don't know how they came off. So she waits for me to have, like, a contraction, and I'm, like, arching my back with them, I guess. And then she sticks her hand inside me and checks, and I'm, like, yelling, arching my back. No heads up. No permission given. Oh my god. And then she says, okay. What room did you want? And my husband was like, wait. We're staying? And she was like, yeah. She's eight centimeters. And so we were like, oh, okay. And then I walk across the hall naked, not even put my pants back on, just walk across the hall into this, room where the tub is at, and I go straight to the toilet because I'm still having diarrhea from the castor oil, and I haven't had anything to eat or drink all day. So at this at this point, it's, like, four or five PM. And I'm on the toilet just going to the bathroom, and the nurse and her, like, rush in the door, and they're like, are you giving birth on the toilet right now? And I was like, no. Like, please get out. Let me go to the bathroom. No. I'm not giving birth right now. So they fill up the tub, and I get in the tub, and then everything stops. You know, the pain stops, and I'm, like, frustrated. I'm so frustrated because I'm thinking it's about to be done, and it stops. And I know now why it it kind of stopped, but I asked them, like, why why did my labor stop? And the midwife says she needs nipple stimulation. Oh. And my husband reaches over and starts rubbing my nipples No. Through my shirt
Speaker 2
No. No. Or
Speaker 3
through my bra thing. And I I'm not really, like, hearing them. So I, like, ask him to please stop. I don't wanna be touched like that, in front of these strangers. And so he stops, and then, I just start I'm feeling uncomfortable. I'm feeling frustrated. I want this over with. So I start pushing without any contractions with nothing. And, eventually and they're, like, you know, telling me to stop. They're putting, like, rags on my head trying to get me to calm down. Eventually, I start having, you know, the contractions start back up, and my body is pushing. But I'm still pushing in between my body pushing because I'm just trying to get this over with. And the whole time, her hands are on on me the whole time. And his head is coming out, going back in, and she's sticking her finger in, going around his head. And my water never broke. It was still intact. And so I thought, oh, that would be kinda cool if he was born, like, in his sack or whatever. So as his head is coming out oh, and I had invited my friend, to take some pictures and video. So she's sitting across from me taking pictures, and she didn't realize it, but the live setting was on. And so I was able to go back, and you can, like, hold down on the picture, and it'll play, like, a little clip of the audio and the video. So that's how I'm able to process all of this later on. I would not have known that any of this was happening if it wasn't for her taking all these pictures. So his head is crowning, and she's sticking her finger in. And at one point, I, like, scream, and then she says, oops. That was my finger, and then you see a little bit of blood come out. And I had a small hair on my labia that I'm pretty sure was from that moment because his head is coming out. She's stretching me, and she's sticking her finger in and going around like this. And, eventually, his water breaks. I don't know if she did it or if it broke on its own, but it breaks. I don't feel it or anything like that. I must have just been, like, numb from, I don't know, the whole situation. So his head comes out, and she's still reaching her fingers in and can feel that the cord is around his neck. And so, as I'm pushing, she's, like, pulling the cord over his head. God. Just still, like, has her hands inside me when I'm, like, stretched to the most that I possibly could be. And as all of this is happening, I'm saying, Colin is my husband. I'm saying, Colin, catch him. Colin, catch him because I can feel that he's about to come out, and she has not taken her hands off of me since, his head started, you know, crowning. And I'm still saying that as his shoulders are coming out. Colin, catch him. And so then my husband reaches down. She still has his her hands on him, and they both lift him up and put him on me. And I'm in this, like, birth high. I can't believe I did it. I'm I'm so happy. I'm amazed. And then out of nowhere, boom. An ambu bag gets put on his face, and they start puffing air into his face. And I snap out of this birth high that I'm in, and I'm thinking, is my baby okay? Is he not breathing? And then he starts crying, and everybody's cheering.
Speaker 2
Gross.
Speaker 3
As this is happening and by the way, in the video, I don't realize it, but there's, like, five sets of hands on my son immediately. It's my hands, my husband's, and then, like, two nurses and the midwife. They're rubbing his feet. Someone has a rag and is rubbing his face, rubbing his back, and then somebody puts an ambi bag on him, like, seconds. I have, like, two seconds of a birth high. And in that moment, I snapped out, and I don't I don't know if I really went back in to that to that birth high. I just remember thinking, like, is my baby gonna make it? And no mother should ever feel like that when it is completely unnecessary. So, anyway, so that happens. He starts crying. Everybody's cheering, and then all of a sudden, the pool is filled with blood. And I looked down, and the midwife has my placenta in her hands, and she says to me, it was ready to come out. So as I'm having my seconds of, like and then they put the bag on him, she had reached her hand inside me and scraped my placenta out. I didn't feel any cramping. I didn't feel anything. I just saw the the tub fill with blood. And I was like, oh, that was, like, really fast. And then I start getting, like, really lightheaded. So then they pass our son over to my husband and get me out of the tub, and I was, like, really lightheaded. I remember thinking like, I can't believe I'm walking right now. And then I get into a a bed, and they do all their things. And they wanted they it was like they had a checklist before I could go home. They wanted me to shower. They wanted me to pee. They wanted to watch me breastfeed him and all of this stuff. And so I was Well, they they
Speaker 2
they do have a checklist. They they have a literal checklist.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I just remember being pushed to take a shower right away, so I washed off all of my amazing postpartum smell. I didn't even think to nurse my son until an hour later, a nurse said, maybe you should try to feed him. And I'm like, why didn't I have that instinct to feed my baby sooner? And I think it was because my power was taken away. I didn't have my own instincts at that point. Everything was being done for me, and I was just kind of sitting there, like, zoned out. So, we do go home that night, around, like, ten or eleven, and, then they do, like, a twenty four hour visit, seventy two hour visit, one week visit. Like, there's so many visits. I didn't feel like I could actually be his mom until I was released from their care, basically.
Speaker 2
That's interesting.
Speaker 3
So, yeah, very, like, micromanaging him, I guess. Like, not letting me just be a mother and know, like, I would know if my baby's running a fever and, you know, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2
Well, first of all, I wanna say I'm really it's kind of a weird thing to say, but I'm really impressed at your ability to narrate and articulate step by step the the sabotage, you know, of your birth.
Speaker 3
And I didn't until I mean, I still I I never felt right about the ambi bag thing about the I don't know if they were, like, resuscitating him or what. I never felt good about that. I knew it was unnecessary, and that was just always like, ew. I wish they didn't do that. That really ruined that for me. But I wasn't able to actually process everything until I became pregnant again, and I had I went back to watch or look at all of the birth pictures that my friend had taken, and I was able to notice every single thing. Like, oh, that all makes sense now that this was interrupted. This was interrupted.
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, you didn't stand a chance. Like, from the from the pre from the membrane sweep. You know, I want I want the women listening to really, really hear me that what you just described is just medical midwifery. There is nothing unique in the way in which you were treated, what happened, the membrane sweeps to the castor oil, to the, I mean, to the whole thing. The whole thing is just that's what it is. That's birth center birth. That's medical midwifery, you know, pretty much step by step. I was gonna say that I have attended quite a few, like, neonatal resuscitation, you know, classes and trainings when I was a medical midwife's assistant, and I've been in multiple trainings where they say, you know, for the next hundred babies, just bag them. Just bag all of them for the practice.
Speaker 3
It's disgusting.
Speaker 2
You know? And so it it it is actually extremely likely that it had nothing to do with anything your baby was presenting, but that someone was practicing.
Speaker 3
Well and that makes a lot of sense because one of the nurses was training that day, and they told me, I'm training her. I never even put that together until you just said that. Yeah. And I even asked them what was the point of the bag, and they were like, he just needed a little help breathing.
Speaker 2
Did he? Yeah. Did he?
Speaker 3
So I never felt good about that, but the other stuff, like the placenta, me not even being able to birth the placenta, any of that stuff, I didn't really I wasn't able to process that until later on. But my postpartum was it was confusing because I was so happy that I had a water birth. I, you know, I did it without medication and all this stuff, but I had a lot of postpartum anger. I was so angry, and it was like it stole the early days of me enjoying my baby. I was very anxious. Go ahead.
Speaker 2
Did you know what you were angry, like, at, or was it just
Speaker 3
No. It was just anger. I was Okay. Well and I had visitors. You know? I had people staying in my house, and then I was really angry about that and just lots of things. And I remember telling my husband, I don't know what's going on. I just need you to, like, help me. I don't know. I don't know how. He didn't really know how to. I'm just like, I've never felt this kind of emotion before. I'm anxious. I'm sad. I'm angry, and I don't know what about.
Speaker 2
Oh, this is so, so, so, so, so, so common how women are set up to be sabotaged in their birth and then gaslit in their postpartum because everyone around them is saying,
Speaker 3
oh my god. Water birth with midwives.
Speaker 2
Like, it's as good as it gets. And so there isn't any, like, healthy, sane reflection to women experiencing this, which is incredibly common. How what you're describing, to emerge anxious, angry, depressed, shut down, disconnected, you know, all these, like, kind of, like, where who is this person? What's happening? Because we don't have the language. Right? When you have when you put the language together that you had an abusive, sabotaged
Speaker 3
birth,
Speaker 2
you know, with with interruption, hormonal and physical fracture at every step, then, of course, it starts to make a lot of sense. Right? Like, I I think of, like, a, you know, an animal that's, like, all caged up and abused. Like, when they get out of the cage, they're gonna be a little funky. They're gonna be all, like, weird. Right? But your your pitch, your birth is, like, as good as it gets. There's nothing to complain about.
Speaker 3
And I I just saw a mom post something, and it said, like, how do you process trauma? I had a traumatic home birth, and then she shared her story. And someone in the comments said, at least you didn't transfer or get a C section. And it was like, so her she can't have trauma because it's not what you think is more traumatic. Right. And so, I mean, that's telling that mom, don't tell your story. Be quiet. Be thankful that you gave birth at home Yes. Even though you were violated and abused.
Speaker 2
It's really dangerous. And and we as as women, as individuals, as friends, we need to be really careful not to, in our own minds, unconsciously play into that. And in a way in which I see women do it, and I used to do it, is comparing, like, well, my trauma is not as bad as yours. Like, yeah. My, you know, upbringing had x y z, but it didn't have the the the the right? Like, we do this in this, like, kind of privilege meets trauma competition way that's actually gaslighting ourselves of what is true for us and allowing us to have that. Right? And for anyone listening, it's also important to say that birth trauma trauma is not a competition, and it's incredibly subjective. It's incredibly personal. And when we see it and can hold it off of a a competition spectrum, right, then we can actually get curious about it. And, of course, when you understand anything about physiological birth, you know, I've seen some of the most severe PTSD in women I've seen actually has come from like, I'm thinking of this one woman who her baby was taken away for three minutes. Just three minutes. Right? We could we could minimize that whole thing. Right? Com because compared to blah blah blah blah. But, you know, that that's all the details I'm gonna give about that birth, but the baby was taken away for for three minutes, and she had serious, serious night terrors, anxiety, PTSD, and it was about of course. Of course. It was about those three minutes. Horrible. So what do you make of that? What's, like, your assessment now? Three years out, obviously, you've gotten a lot of education around this. You you have a, you know, very comprehensive grasp, you know, of of what happened, obviously, in the way you told your story. So, like, I'd love to hear you talk about what you make of your birth.
Speaker 3
And I I think about it daily. What would have happened if I had just stayed home? If I said, no. Let's not go check the baby. I'm just gonna have the baby here and just stayed home. How it could have been different? Or how maybe if I would have had the other midwife, it would have been different. I don't I doubt it. But I for me, it really helped me learn me. I thought that I was gonna want support from a midwife, from, you know, a doula, whoever. And I realized I don't actually want anybody. I did my best completely alone. My husband was at work. There was nobody else. I was completely alone. Mhmm. But still, I didn't really discover that until I was pregnant with my second and really starting to unravel all of this. So it it's hard because I don't want my son to, like, listen to this when he's older or grow up and be like, oh, my mom had a horrible birth, but then, you know, the redeeming birth with my brother. But it taught me so much, and it made me who I was to be able to, you know, make better choices for myself. And so I did grow from it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think that's an important subject. You know? How how do we talk to our first when there is birth trauma. And and I think it's a really important topic that I don't see a lot of conversation around. And I think moms can carry some kind of interesting flavor of guilt around the second child, like, not having it. Right? And I guess I wanna say, first of all, that your family is is like a like a turning of a wheel. Right? Like, all of you are players. It's not just about the mother and the first child. It's it's healing can happen in the whole family with every birth as I'm sure you've experienced, And that your son got to witness normal birth is a part, a significant part, of his story. So, yes, the way he came out is, you know, muddled with all of this stuff, but you've also done the work to understand why. Right? And as you describe it to him when he's when it's age appropriate, I'm sure you will be very intentional with the words because it's not that he was a naughty little boy that didn't come at forty weeks. It's not that he needed any of the bullshit that happened to you guys. Right? And and that's the piece I think for moms listening with with rough stories and with birth sabotage is shy of some, like, random severe complication and emergency, which are quite rare. Most likely what happened was you had a shit team. You are betrayed, and the system happened to you. Right? And you were naive and you didn't know, and that's not your fault. That's just kind of, like, how the whole thing is set up, and then we know better and we do better. And how we talk to our children about that, I think can be done really skillfully in a way that doesn't blame you and the child. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. Because I I've cried about, like, how am I gonna tell him this without him also being traumatized or feeling like he, you know, he didn't get the same experience, which but, I mean, truthfully, he showed me how powerful I really was because I had no idea. That's a
Speaker 2
pretty epic legend to walk with for him.
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know? Like, he
Speaker 2
that he came in as to to show you your power. Like, what a beautiful what a beautiful gift in that story to really focus on when you do share it with him. And it is age appropriate. You know? I think we do need to be, like, age appropriate in in how we tell birth stories, especially if there's trauma because unprocessed trauma, you know, an unconscious trauma, it it it leaks out in weird ways. Case in point, when you were pregnant and everyone was giving you their trauma stories. Like, that is unprocessed
Speaker 3
Even as a child.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And as a child, that is irresponsible, you know, trauma. And and so what does it mean to be responsible with our stories, right, and to do our own work on them? And your story is not his story, which is interesting. Like, there's facts. There's facts that occurred, and then there's your story about the facts. And that's kind of a cool thing to play with that you can share it in a way that is true, but also, like, has some spaciousness around. Yes. There's the facts, and this is what I learned and take from that. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But him getting to see you birth in power and that his birth and he was, like, the impetus for that is a profound family story Mhmm. And something to be proud of and and not worried about. You know what I mean?
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 2
So when do you get the ideas this crazy idea to do this thing in your own bathtub? And I know when we DM ed, there was you know, you brought up around the, like, getting my husband on board piece, and I wanna make sure we talk about that because we both know that's a a common scapegoat of why women don't take responsibility. So, yeah, flesh out what happens between you have the baby. You go through this confusing postpartum as you called it. And when does when do things start to click into place, and when does free birth come in?
Speaker 3
So our second was a very, intentional conscious conception. I knew exactly, when we got pregnant, and, I started back up with the birth center again just thinking I know. Just thinking So we have the same insurance and but I'm still looking for midwives that I can have a home birth. So I haven't processed anything yet at this point. And the one midwife that I really liked is no longer there. It's all different people. So it starts at my anatomy scan. I go into this ultrasound place, and I have a horrible experience. They don't allow my child. They don't allow my husband. And it was a very long ultrasound. I was exhausted. They they looked at a lot of stuff, and then the the ultrasound tech said, so we found a little bit of, fluid on the ventricles of your baby's brain. And she said, boys tend to have more fluid. And I don't remember the exact measurement. I wish I remembered. But it was, like, zero point zero two centimeters out of the norm. I was like, okay. Well, how long have you been, like, studying the norm? She's like, so it's really nothing to worry about, but our doctor wants to talk to you about it. I was like, okay.
Speaker 2
But we could make some money off you.
Speaker 3
Exactly. So the doctor comes in and says basically the same thing. You had no other signs. However, this could be a sign, of Down syndrome. And so we wanna do another ultrasound to check and make sure the fluid goes down and then maybe an amniocentesis. And I didn't know what that was.
Speaker 2
Amniocentesis. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I asked her what that was, and she explained it. And I said no.
Speaker 2
Oh, you don't want a needle stuck into your into your womb?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Taking my baby's fluid? No. Thank you. Yikes. And I also didn't wanna do the ultrasound because I told her or I asked her what what was the medical reason, and she said, well, it's really just to try to get a name on what this could be. And there was no other sign saying that he had Down syndrome. And I'm like, well, regardless if he has Down syndrome or not, I still want to birth him, and I still wanna birth him, you know, not in a hospital. And she's like, well, you're not high risk yet, but we want you to do an ultrasound and and make sure. And so I'm like, we'd love to trying Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Go ahead. Trying to risk me out. Yeah. They wanna make you
Speaker 2
high risk. They wanna make you high risk. So good. So
Speaker 3
I am not doing this other ultrasound or anything. So I I feel like the midwife is my friend. So I call her and I tell her what happened, and I say, I don't wanna do the ultrasound. And she's like, well, we want you to do the ultrasound. And I'm like, what's the medical reason? And she said Who works for you. It's for scheduling purposes for, like, if you would need an MRI afterwards. And I'm just like, no. No. No. No. No. Woah. Refuse an MRI. I I'm not. And so and I said I'm not going back to the group. I had a horrible experience with them and the doctor. She and when I said I didn't want the ultrasound, the doctor flipped her tone from this could be nothing to now your baby could have Down syndrome, that could be serious, like, trying to scare me. Of course. So I got out of there as fast as I could. And I told her, look. You can send out orders for another place. I'm not going back to that place. And I had no intention of ever going to the ultrasound appointment. She can do it if that's what she has to do to check off her little list of, oh, I sent out orders for that, but I won't be there. So, apparently, she sent out orders. I never got a call to schedule for the thing, so I was like, okay. Great. That's fine. The next appointment I go to, I'm, like, twenty four weeks, I think. And she's angry, like, angry. And she's like, you were supposed to get an ultrasound weeks ago. And I'm like, really? I didn't get I didn't get a call or anything. And she's like, well, we sent out orders. I guess I'll send them out again. Didn't ask me to, like, verify information or anything. So she sent them out again.
Speaker 2
Please tell me that you sent her your birth video.
Speaker 3
Nope. But one of the nurses from there actually saw it and messaged me and was like, I'm proud of you and, like, all this stuff.
Speaker 2
But I was like, okay. We should definitely send the birth center this episode. Yeah.
Speaker 3
So, anyway, she sends out another thing. We do the appointment, and everything is fine. So then I'm in the lobby. My son is playing with the toys they have out there, and she comes out to the lobby and sits down next to me and says, you have gained so much weight. Oh my god. And I was, like, shocked because I was feeling better about my weight gain. It was less than with my first, and no one said a word about my weight with my first. And so I was like, what? And she was like, you have gained so much weight. We just need you to lay off the carbs. And I I I don't even know what to say, but what made me more mad about that statement was that she didn't ask me a single thing about my diet or what my diet looks like, what I'm eating, or anything. If she did, she would know that I am very intentional about what I put in my body. The carbs I do eat are homemade pastas. I mean, I like she's
Speaker 2
got a domination technique. You know what I mean? It has nothing to do. She just picked one of the domination strategies that are in her training. Like, what can I do to shame her and get her to be subordinate?
Speaker 3
I felt like she was mad at me for the ultrasound thing, and so she, like, came back out and was like, you're fat. So so then she tells me that she's setting me up an appointment with the nutritionist. And I'm like I'm like, oh, I took her class, like, a mandatory nutrition class. I'm like, oh, I already took it. She's like, well, we're she's gonna get you set up on a diet to help you, like, maintain your weight.
Speaker 2
This is such a horrible story. Like I know. This is so bad.
Speaker 3
And at this point, I had already been listening to Freebird Society podcast and looking into stuff. And so I had been thinking, like, I need a sign of what to do, and then this happens. And I cry all the way home. And then when my husband gets off work, I tell him what happens, and he's like, cancel the nutrition appointment. And I said, I can't go back at all. I am severely uncomfortable. How am I supposed to flirt with these people? I'm so uncomfortable. And so he's like, okay. Then you need to figure something out. And so I'm like, okay. So I send them an email and say, please cancel all my appointments. We're done.
Speaker 2
Nice.
Speaker 3
And they sent me an email back, and they're like, okay. Will do. Well, then, like, a month later, I get a call that I missed my appointment, and they wanna know why. I'm like, if I cancel all appointments, I'm not your patient anymore. You're fired. So then one day at work, my husband calls me and says, hey. I just got a call that, somebody's been trying to reach you, and you've been ignoring them. And they said it's medically urgent. Oh, what? Over. Oh my god.
Speaker 2
I called the back. Get your cattle in line.
Speaker 3
Literally. I'm like, why did they call and tell on me to you? Like, why ignoring us. So I called the number, and it's another ultrasound place. They have had my orders. They've been trying to call me. Turns out they have the wrong number. I told the lady, look at your caller ID. That's not my phone number. And I'm not even seeing that doctor anymore, so I don't want to do the ultrasound. So and she was really friendly on the phone, but she was like, we've been trying to call you for, like, months, and you've been ignoring us. So after that, I don't hear anything back. I get a bill from the, birth center place, and so I'm like, okay. Good. They've finally given up on me.
Speaker 2
So after It really like, everyone forgets who works for who. Mhmm. You know? Like, it this is a service they provide. That's it. As our doctors, we hire them. And insurance makes it more confusing because they're all in bed together. But Yeah. We're we're hiring them through our insurance. Like, this is a service that people literally do not grasp. We are voluntarily opting into. And then the turnaround is that these assholes act like they're your daddy.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. It's so crazy. So I basically have convinced myself that I'm going to free birth, but I have not convinced my husband. I'm gently trying to introduce the idea to him, trying to just get him used to it, and he's not. I'm, like, saying, what if I had an experienced mom come and be with us? And, you know, she's given birth many times. She's got lots of experience, and he's like, no. I would not be comfortable with that. In every scenario I would come up to try to get him on board with this, he was not comfortable. And I was feeling really defeated. And then I was listening to the podcast, and I wish I knew which episode it was. But you say something about a mom or a lady saying, oh, I I want to free birth, but my husband won't let me. And then you were like, no. You don't want to because if you did, then you would. You would do anything to do that. And my initial response was like, she has no idea what it's like to have an unsupportive partner because her husband is totally supportive of her, and I I felt upset initially. And then it was like a pebble in my shoe. I kept thinking about your words, like, all day. And I was like, she is so right. I do I want to? Because if I want to, there's no other option. I compromised the first time Mhmm. And he doesn't live with the trauma. Nope. He sees, oh, we have a healthy baby. I'm the one that thinks every day, what if I just stayed home? I'm living with the trauma. So then that night, I I brought it up to him again trying to gently introduce it, and I'm saying, like, this is what I want. There's, like, no other option, and we're just talking in circles. And so I do kind of break down how I feel after our first born's birth, and I think that kind of softened him a little bit because he kinda then was like, yeah. I didn't know you had those feelings because I haven't talked to anybody about this.
Speaker 2
Woah.
Speaker 3
But he's still like, I'm not comfortable with it at all. And I see that this conversation is going nowhere. So then I say, well, I'm not asking for your permission. I'm asking for your support. And he said, so what? You're just gonna birth without me then? And I just said in my mind, I'm like, I am prepared to do that because that's how much I want to do this, that if that's what it takes, I will. But I say, I'm just asking for your support. And then we end the conversation on that, and we don't talk about it again until I'm thirty eight weeks pregnant. And he asked me we're driving in the car on the highway, and out of nowhere, he says, so what's the birth plan? And I'm like, I'm, like, thirty eight weeks pregnant, about to give birth, and now you wanna know what I'm doing? And so I say, I'm birthing at home. And then he said, okay. And that was it. And then we didn't talk about it again.
Speaker 2
So was there, like, tension between when you're like, I'm asking for your support until thirty eight weeks? Like, that's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I made up my mind. I said, this is the option. You can support me or not, but I'm not asking for your permission. And, yeah, there was tension. We didn't speak about birth because he didn't want to, and I didn't want to bring it up and make him mad or, you know, bring up a whole thing again. So I kept myself, which I'm actually really grateful that he was like that because I didn't realize how codependent I was of his opinion and his advice. So when I was researching things like, what do I wanna do with the cord? Do I wanna cut it? Do I wanna burn it? Do I wanna have a lotus birth? I would think, oh, I should ask Colin what he wants to do. And then it would be like, no. I'm not talking to Colin about it. I'm making a decision. So then I would do it. I would get the supplies, and I just put together everything I wanted in a bag, had it next to the bed. And what I have to say about, like, how to get your husband on board with free birth is don't. It's not their decision. And I know that's easier said than done, but truthfully, like you said, women own birth. And if your husband even though you and your husband made a baby, if he wasn't there, you're still gonna give birth. The only people that need to be there is you and your baby, and that's the only people who should be making decisions about where or how you birth.
Speaker 2
It's true. And I would just add a layer there that, it's okay if your husband's uncomfortable. Mhmm. Like, that's really okay, and that's understandable. And I do I do a lot of sessions with couples where that is the tension point. And and, really, what's underneath that is the mother is, whether she's aware of it or not, is prioritizing his comfort above all and making up the story, you know, again, unconscious or not, that for this to work, for this to be allowed, for for my, you know, my partner to support this new baby. Like, there's so much, you know, deep stuff in there that I don't think is totally conscious. He needs to be comfortable, and he needs to give his blessing. Right? Which kinda go to they kinda go hand in hand. And so a lot of the work I do is what if we just what if we all just say to each other, it's okay that you're uncomfortable? And let's start there because because, yes, everything you just said, yes. Totally. And it is, as you lived, a real tension point for a lot of couples. And I think that as women and as wives, partners, something we can do if you're in this position if you feel like it. You don't need to. But but part of the work could be, how can I so fully accept exactly where and how he is and have that be independent of my choices? Right? Because what you just said, you know, naming your codependence, that that's what's up. Like, you know, you're responsible for my life, and I'm responsible and I need you to fill in the blank in order for me to fill in the blank. And that's codependency. Right? Like, it's your fault that I'm mad. Right? Yeah. That's that's and really, honestly, most people are in codependent relationships, you know, and you have to really learn out of it because it is kind of the default, you know, dynamic.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I had to practice it a lot doing that. Every decision I made, I did on my own. And and now I even see myself as a mom being less codependent of his opinion and so I mean, yeah, it's made me confident and yeah. So I I basically since I didn't really know how he was gonna be during the labor and birth, I didn't want him to really do anything. As long as he just took care of our son and, you know, did stuff for him, I knew he would do that. I just wanted to be left alone to do my thing. And it made me have to be stronger, basically. And, because I didn't want him to be nervous or anything like that and, I don't know, freak out or something. But, so around let's see here. Forty one weeks is when I went into labor. So the night before, I was feeling kind of discouraged and just that I hadn't gone. I don't know. I I think just all the emotions were happening, and people were being nosy asking me when I was gonna be induced and all this stuff. And I really was just telling people whatever they needed to hear to protect my peace. So people thought I was birthing in a hospital, birthing with midwives. I I just told people all different kinds of things. I didn't even tell people the right due date. I told everyone a different due date, and then I was confused, like, when I was actually due, which was really helpful because I was forty one weeks and then, like, oh, maybe I'm not. Yeah. That's hilarious. Even my husband was, like, telling people that I was due, like, a week later than I actually was, which was fine. But so we went out. We went golfing. I kind of became a hermit because people were just bothering me so much asking me, like, really personal questions that I was like, please mind your business.
Speaker 2
My and then my joke with that when women get harassed at the end is that you should turn around and ask them their favorite sexual position.
Speaker 3
You know? Like, oh, how dilated are you? I know. Like You wanna know what's happening in my vagina?
Speaker 2
Like, how's your butt this morning? How's your, like, you know, like, give me details.
Speaker 3
Men will ask you that. Men are asking me, like, what are you dilated? I'm like, that's disgusting. Stay in your lane, bro.
Speaker 2
But their lane, they they literally have been groomed to think that their lane is to know and be entitled to everything about us.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, we go golfing. I tell my husband, I just really want, like, a greasy cheeseburger right now. He's like, okay. We go. I eat that. I'm happy. And then that night, I take a really long bath. I'm feeling kind of defeated. Like, I just need to let go and stop letting these people get in my head. So I told my mom I was free birthing, and then I told my one friend, the one that took pictures at my first son's birth. Those were the only two people and my mother-in-law. Those were the only people that knew, my actual plans. Everyone else, I was just telling, like, whatever I wanted. So I took a bath. I had a really good cry, and then I went to bed, and I had a great night's sleep. And my husband was sleeping with my toddler because I was very pregnant, very uncomfortable, and I just wanted to be alone, I guess, sleep alone. And so I woke up at, like, a couple minutes before six AM, and I felt pretty crampy. And so I was like, okay. This is either the cheeseburger or I'm, like, starting early labor. So I go in there. I go to the bathroom. I text my friend. You know? I I might be in labor. I don't know. And I'm like, okay. If I am gonna have a baby today, I want to take a shower. I wanna have clean hair and stuff like that. I wanted to feel, like, sensual, I guess, like, cute and yeah. So I took a shower, and I decided to reach in and check myself. I had been checking myself because I like to be I like to know what's going on with my body. So I knew what my cervix felt like. I knew where it was at, and I wasn't gonna hurt myself. No. And so I reach in, and I feel my cervix immediately, and I feel this tight stack bulging out. And I'm like, oh, I am in labor. And so then it was like, once I told myself that, the cramping switched to surges of, like, I'm feeling this, and then I'm getting a break. And so I got out of the shower, and I put on, like, this little bra and this robe, this silk robe that my husband got me from Japan, and I felt really cute. And then I was gonna put on, like, some makeup. And I started brushing my eyebrows, and I was like, I cannot go any further than this. This is like Oh, that's funny. This is starting to get pretty intense, and I wanna focus. So I was really talking to myself, staying in the right mindset because with my first when my labor stalled or whatever whatever happened there, I was really frustrated. And so I told myself, okay. If my labor takes a pause again, I'm gonna be thankful. I'm gonna thank my body for giving me a break. And so that's what I did over and over and over again. Every time I felt a surge, I was saying thank you. I was saying, you know, open, all these different things, whatever came to my mind. And I was moving in different positions with every single surge, like an animal. Just whatever my body was telling me, I was doing deep squats, which felt really tight, but in a comfortable way. It felt comforting to do that. And one thing, sister Morningstar said on your podcast about watching, wild animals give birth, you know, in the wild, not in captivity. And so I was doing that. I was, like, googling orangutan giving birth, flamingo giving, like, every animal. Flamingo? I don't think I'd ever seen that. It's just like look. My search history is probably, like, insane, like, this woman. It's awesome. But yeah. And they move around. And, I mean, I I've seen dogs give birth. I've seen cats give birth, and they are moving around like crazy. And that's how I felt with, like, this primal gorilla moving around. And around seven ish, my toddler woke up and came in and wanted to nurse. And so I nursed him, which made the surges, like, intensify so much, and it was really painful. But I was wanting to, like, pause and just appreciate the moment because I knew he's my he's my only baby. And then after this, he's you know, this is the last time I'm nursing him as my only child. So then my husband came in and saw me, like, on the floor in my robe nursing him, like, in pain. And he's like, are you in labor? And I was like, yes. And then my husband just takes the toddler and leaves the room. And then I focus. I'm just doing my thing. And then he comes in. I can hear him, like, making breakfast and turning on a movie for our son, which was perfect. I'm like, okay. Good. He's taken care of. And then my husband comes in and says, do you wanna get in the bath? And I wasn't sure where I was I wanted to choose in the moment where to give birth. I kind of wanted to try to have a land birth because I had a lot of birth my first, and then I was like, okay. Maybe I'll maybe this baby will want to be born on the land, and I'll be able to experience both. But I was like, yeah. That sounds really nice. So, again, without any discussion of how I wanted him to play a role in my labor, He had the lights off, candles lit, and the bath going, which was, like, perfect. I couldn't have asked for it. That's exactly how I would have asked if, we would have talked about it. So then I get in, and I'm drinking coconut water. He brings in some honey, and he'll leave. He'll bring in toast and leave. So really just bringing me, like, snacks and drinks and then leaving me alone again. And there's one point where he was standing in the doorway kind of watching, and I just say, no. And then he walks away and doesn't come back again. Like, don't watch me like a animal. Just leave me alone. That's weird. I feel, like, a huge surge, and my water, like, burst. And it scared me because I had never felt that before. And I yelled, like, my water's open or something like that. And he, like, came in. He was like, your water broke. And I was like, yep. And then he left again. And then a couple more surges later, and I could feel him coming down. And I wanted my son to witness. I wanted my husband to witness. And so I said, okay. Come in. Turn on the light and bring our son in. So he did that, and it was, like, minutes the head started coming out. And at one part, I said, can you see his head? And my husband said, yes. And then I had put, like, a little I had a bag of just, like, stuff that I wanted, and I had a little handheld mirror in there. So he gave me the mirror, and you could not see that yet. I think he was just trying to, like, encourage me or something. Liar. I know. I was like That's funny. He's like, I do not
Speaker 2
know what I'm looking at down there.
Speaker 3
I know. I'm like and I don't think I was even in a position where he could see. I was just like, do you see his head? And he's like, yep.
Speaker 2
I remember asking my husband if if he could see anything, and he just went my first kid, he went, it has a
Speaker 3
face. Like Was was it face down, like, facing your back? I don't know. Oh, it has a face. It has a face. That's what he said to me. That's really good. But, I I just kept my hand there, which was really comforting just to feel what was going on. And I could feel wrinkly skin with some fuzz, which was, like, just the most amazing thing to feel. I love I would just rub my hand over the wrinkles. And he was coming out, and the surges were, like, taking over every ounce of my body. Like, you could see my veins popping out. It was so crazy, a crazy feeling. But I remember stretching and feeling a burning sensation and feeling like my butthole was being so stretched and telling myself, woah, made to stretch. And it was like it was still that sensation. It was still tight, but I was able to relax and just trust that my body knew what it was doing. So his head came out, and I was, like, shocked to see his face down because I thought for sure he would be sunny side up. I didn't have back labor or anything like that, but I just thought he was gonna be, like, looking up at me. And so he was head down, and I was like, oh, there's his face. And I think my son is saying, like, that he can see that there's a baby there. And as I'm giving birth, he was sucking on the honey. I ate, like, half of a honey stick, and so he was sucking on the rest of it. And so then I birth his shoulders, and I can see the cord around his neck. I was expecting the cord around his neck. That is, like, that was normal for me. It was not a shocking thing, and there was not an ounce of me that was concerned at all. It was for a reason. He knew what to do, which is why the cord was around his neck. So I just also
Speaker 2
just, like, cultural myth that that's a bad thing. Like, it's highly adaptive. It's it's a intelligent, normal thing for babies to do.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. And so the shoulders are born. I'm lifting it over, and I think my husband thought I was gonna, like, lift him out. So he said, like, don't lift him out of the water yet or something like that, but I wasn't even listening to what was being said or done. And I felt another contraction. I lifted him up on me, and my son's like, oh, baby. And I'm just kind of, like, rubbing him. It it was so calm. I was really hoping that I would go into, like, this amazing birth world and, like, not be there, but, unfortunately, that is not what was it. I was so present and, like, I just was really clear minded. And just rubbing his back. Not an ounce of me was concerned about the time it took for him to transition because I knew that he would. I knew he was perfect. He was opening his eyes, calmly, just opening his eyes, and it shocked my husband too because this is the first time my husband has seen Right. Undisturbed, normal, real birth. Mhmm. And so he's like, that's crazy. He's amazed. And then, I lift my son up to me, and then that's when he starts crying. I don't know how long it took him to transition, but I was rubbing his back, kissing him. We were just gently talking to him, and that was so important to me that nobody was aggressively rubbing him, wiping his face, squeezing his feet, forcing anything. So yeah.
Speaker 2
Is there really so much to ask?
Speaker 3
Literally. Can we Could you just
Speaker 2
could you just respect the most important
Speaker 3
moment of my entire life? Yes. So, yeah, just enjoying this amazing moment and together as a family, just us, exactly how I had manifested it to be. And, I felt some cramping, and I wanted also, birthing the placenta on my own was, like, the second most important thing. After birthing my baby, I really was looking forward to being able to do that since it was stripped from me the first time. I didn't even know what that felt like. So I felt some cramping, and I fell on the cord, and it it still was attached. I it wasn't ready to come out yet. So I nursed a little bit. He latched and nursed a little bit, but he didn't nurse a ton. And then I felt cramping again. And a little bit, like, half of the placenta came out, but it was still kind of attached. So we waited some more. We probably waited, like, thirty minutes in the tub just hanging out and nursing on and off. And then, and then I tried again, and the placenta came out. And we put it in a bowl, and I was, like, amazed. It had the deepest, like, most beautiful color. It was just incredible to look at, and my son was looking at it, like, so amazed too. So, yeah, we just spent time in the bath, and then my husband turned the lights off again so that we could just, you know, be calm. And I had bought I heard another mom on the podcast say that she bought painters' cloth to, like, birth on so because it would be, like, waterproof. So I bought that because I thought maybe I'd want a birth on land, but I didn't end up using it. So my husband put it on the bed like a sheet, basically. And then I just went in, like, free blood on that. We all snuggled in bed and just took our time. We watched a movie. We ate eggs. Mhmm. And we thought about what we would call him, and then, eventually, I wanted to separate him from his court. It was kind of cold. It was getting, like, dog hair on it. And so, we I had bought some beeswax candles, and it took about ten minutes to do it. And then after it burned off, I tied it in a knot, and we enjoyed our morning. And then, when my toddler laid down for a nap, then we called family and let them know that he was here, which was really fun. But one thing I feel like was a huge game changer in my postpartum was having absolutely nobody come to visit. Nobody. It was completely just our family. I I invited one friend. She brought a big bowl of fruit. She sat down. She listened to my story, and she went home. And that was it.
Speaker 2
How long did you not have visitors?
Speaker 3
So she came. I invited her maybe, like, four days after. She was there for, like, thirty minutes or something. And then we had a family wedding a week after, and I decided I wanted to go. My entire family would be there. I'm the youngest of six, and so all my siblings were gonna be there. And so I decided to go, and I figured I would leave. So then I went out and, you know, they met the baby and came back. It was it was too soon to be out. Yeah. I know you know that. I know. But, Oh my god. But it was important to me that, you know, my my family did meet him and then but nobody came to my house for, like, two months. And so and that was amazing that we were able to just be naked, nursing, you know, bleeding, just whatever, recovering. So, yeah, it was significantly different. I had on the third day, I had a moment of anxiety where I was like, it can't be this good. This is like, there's no way that it's good. And then my husband is like, Micaiah, he's perfect, and that's it. And then I was like, you're right. And then nothing. Nothing since then. So
Speaker 2
So is your husband a a changed man now?
Speaker 3
I I think he is. I mean, I told him, if we ever got pregnant again, there would be no way to ever do this again. And he was like, yeah. There's no way. I just I wanted it to be totally normal, a normal Friday, except mom gave birth in the bathroom Mhmm. And then we continue, and that's exactly what it was. It was totally normal, except now we have two boys instead of one. And I know my brother, when we told him that he was born, my brother asked Colin if he felt nervous at all, and he said, no. Not at all. There wasn't
Speaker 2
a time.
Speaker 3
Yeah. There wasn't a time at all where he was worried or nervous. And he stayed, you know, he stayed in his lane. He let me do my thing, and that's all I wanted. For a support person, that is all I wanted. I wouldn't have changed anything about it.
Speaker 2
Love it. So proud of you.
Speaker 3
Thank you.
Speaker 2
So amazing.
Speaker 3
And it's hearing other women's stories. I heard so many that were similar to my first birth, you know, and it's hearing those stories that really does empower you to trust your instincts. You have the knowledge in you. Just like mammals, they don't have to be taught how to birth. The knowledge is in you on how to birth and take care of your baby. Just let your primal self take over.
Speaker 2
And, like, quiet the noise. Mhmm. Close it up. You'll find your way if you just close it
Speaker 3
up. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you so so so much. Thank you for having me on. With you. Yeah. It's really great. Appreciate your time.
Speaker 3
Thank you.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of sovereign birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
