Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom
Speaker 2
change
Speaker 0
since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 3
Welcome to the show, my friends. This week we have a return guest, a fan favorite, really, my sweet sister Sparrow from Los Angeles. She's back on the show to tell her redemption story. You may remember her from an earlier season when she told us about her first birth when she transferred herself. She had felt confident in the transfer thinking that she could just go to the hospital as a seasoned birth worker and get a catheter to empty her bladder. Instead, she was wrongfully diagnosed with HIV and forced into a c section. It's a brutal story, and so I'm especially thrilled to have her back on today sharing a new story. Sparrow tells us about her new love, her beautiful family, her sovereign birth, and her much deserved blissful postpartum. Before we get going, I wanna announce that the very membership you're going to be hearing Sparrow reference in this episode where she found her RBK, yes, The Freebird Society membership is opening doors for new members for the last time this year, and we're doing it at forty percent off the normal annual price. If you join now, you'll lock in this sale price for life. So here's what you need to know. This is the online gathering space for women that love this podcast, that are interested in sovereign birth, that are or want to be radical birth workers, and let's just say if you identify as a wild mother. If you are holistically minded, interested in untangling yourself and your family from the medical paradigm and resonate with our work, you belong with us. We are the lighthouse and we are calling you home. Come find your place among our sisterhood where through conscious community, we're healing the fractures of our sister wounds. We rally together as mothers and access the women's wisdom that belongs to us. But really what I'm saying is if you're a mom or a mom to be and you're asking Google what contractions feel like or what to do with your feverish baby, you can just do so much better than that. Ask the mothers themselves. That's what this group is all about. We're here for you. We're here for the first time your baby falls off the bed, gets a fever, or a rash. If you are a mother that wants to live a holistic lifestyle, then surround yourself with women who already do. Gates are open for a very short time, so jump on in at free birth society dot com slash membership and get a locked in annual price that is forty percent off. Alright. It's a big month at Freebird Society. We have more coming your way but for now please enjoy this super sweet episode. Alright. We have today a very special woman to me who has been on the podcast before. I don't remember which season, but we will put it in the show notes. So Season four. Season four. So, yeah, I have my friend from California, Sparrow, on. Welcome.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
Speaker 3
And she recently rebirthed her second child, so, obviously, I had to have her on to tell that story because those of you who will remember, and she'll give a quick overview here, she had a insane insane Go of it with her first. And like I said, I'll put the link in the show notes to listen because there's a lot of wisdom in that episode. It's really worth going back and visiting after you've heard this one. But, yeah, let's just pass it to you, Sparrow. Like, what do you wanna say to help orient new listeners, to your future story or your story that's coming up? And, also, I just wanna put my excitement into the episode because you and I Marco'd after your birth, and I got, like, a little bit of it. But this is actually my first time as your friend and someone who loves you so much getting to actually hear the whole story and and also you leaving MRF last year and then just immediately you know, you had just found this amazing man, and then you left MRF, and you are living proof that when you leave the festival in that high vibe, you're you're either gonna get pregnant or you're gonna start a business or some big shift will happen.
Speaker 2
So Well yes. And and I met him right after I was floating off the high of finishing the Blood Mystery School. And that was also just such a high vibration. And then, yeah, the matriarch was yes. So, yeah, let me just get everybody oriented. And it is interesting. I feel like this, my most recent pregnancy, I really got to reflect so much more on my first go of it. And I I'm just gonna give everybody the cliff notes version of it, but it was so, just kind of tragic in so many ways. And it's not anymore, you know, and that's why I am so grateful to be here to be able to tell a very different story. And, but I I also I grieved a lot during my most recent pregnancy about my first pregnancy in layers that I couldn't even access because I was just so much in survival mode. And so the cliff notes version of my first story is that I had planned, a free birth and could not release my bladder, which I did way after the fact, way after my birth, find a way to release your bladder at home, which I shared in my last interview. If anybody wants to go back and tuck that in your toolkit. I wish I had had that in my story, but I couldn't release my bladder. So yes, my baby couldn't, couldn't get past that. And, I thought being a birth worker and having all this knowledge and going in with, you know, a good friend who was also knowledgeable of the system, that I could go into the hospital and get a very simple catheter and leave and go home. And I was, I had been trying at home for about two days and it was just really getting tiring, but I was not mentally or spiritually exhausted. I wasn't giving up in any way. I really went in thinking that I can get this little tiny bit of help sign out against medical advice if I needed to and just go home and finish my journey. But instead I was thrown just this insane curveball that I could have never guessed and both me and my baby were misdiagnosed as HIV positive. And I ended up with a completely unnecessary c section after three and a half days of labor. And when I was wheeled out of the operating room, I was met with eleven people just waiting for me and like three social workers who harassed me for the following two days would not allow me to breastfeed my brand new baby. And, you know, just why did it take two days to get definitive test results? I don't know. It was a nightmare. It was so stressful. I was using every ounce of my energy to try and protect my, you know, two hour old baby that they wanted to inject with, you know, really crazy. Yeah. Really, really crazy HIV medication without having definitive test results. And every time I brought that up, I was like, why would I, I was just, you know, I was even trying to play ball with them a little bit as if I would ever consider doing that, but I was just like, how can I possibly make an informed decision when we don't have definitive test results? Where are my test results? It took two days. Everything came back negative. Me and my baby are completely healthy and they walk in and they're like, so your test results came back. Everything's fine. You don't have HIV. And would you like to go home? And I'm like, I'm sure they wanted me to get the f out of there. And at that point, I just like, I burst into tears because I had been holding so much and having to defend so much. And, anyways went home and healed physically really well. Mentally, I had postpartum anxiety pretty bad for about eight months. And, and so that's the cliff notes version of my first go around. What I didn't share in the first story that I think needs to be told today is that, the other layer of what was going on emotionally in my life was that I was abandoned by my ex husband at eleven weeks pregnant. And even that abandonment wasn't it wasn't even, like, completely solid. So I think for a lot of my pregnancy, I kept thinking that things would potentially work out. And he left the country for two weeks and then has never come back, has never met our son.
Speaker 3
Like Still to this day. Like
Speaker 2
To this day.
Speaker 3
He left on the I on the the the agreement that he was gonna just go wrap some stuff up or work or something.
Speaker 2
Yes. So it was very hard for me to try and navigate, you know, what the hell is going on? Yeah. And you
Speaker 3
knew you were pregnant when he left? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So that whole pregnancy was marked by, like
Speaker 2
And it was a planned pregnancy. It wasn't an axe it was not an accidental
Speaker 3
Oh, I mean, that's the other piece I feel like is probably worth, yeah, bringing up right now, which is around the not being able to release the bladder. Like, everything's connected. Right? And and I want women who are new to the idea of of birth and and, you know, being at home and all of this that, like, well, it is my belief that the that nothing is, like, random, and there is that layer. I'm not saying one created the other. It's not that black and white, obviously. But, you know, I I guess I'm not sure quite sure the words here. Like, what do you make of that? Let me put it back to you. Like, what do you make of this huge heartache and reality that he's not there? He's at you know, you're about to become a mother. He's not there. And that's interesting that also this, like, physical manifestation
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 3
Gets prevented.
Speaker 2
There's two things that I wanna say about that. Number one is that, most of most of what I know now, I didn't realize until my most recent pregnancy. How much it affected me, how much it derailed my, you know, inner stability and all of that. And just how much your, emotional kind of matrix matters when you're moving into pregnancy and motherhood. Like I I didn't know how much it could physically affect me even though I'm a bodyworker and even though I would probably say that to somebody else. I don't think that I really understood that until, until, I was in a space where I was safe enough to really kind of grieve and to look at that from all different angles. But your emotions, your support, like they matter so much. So there's that. And then the other thing that I wanted to share is that in one of, one of the few sessions that I, did to prepare for my most recent birth, I worked with one of my mentors who's a craniosacral therapist and she's like beyond like, she's just a witch. I don't know what else to call her. She's amazing. And she didn't know, like, the details of my whole story, but she was kind of scanning through my whole body trying to figure out, you know, if if there's anything that my my body physically needed before I was gonna, have my next birth. And she said, she's like, okay. There's some some remnants of something going on on the left side of your pelvic floor. And she's like, let me trace this back. When did this start? And she's going back and she's like, it was in your first trimester. She's like, I think it was, like, around week eleven. And I'm like, which is exactly when I was left. You know? And I was just like, I never told her that piece of it. So she said, yeah. When that happened, she's like, your pelvic floor twisted. She's like, and that's what was going on with your bladder by the time you were, you know, in your birthing process. And I was just like Mhmm. You know? It she said you were absolutely shocked by that. It was a it was a and I and I was. You know?
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. And it makes sense that there would be a correlation around, like, not releasing into the next phase, you know, into motherhood. Yeah. Like, of trauma, shock, holding
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 3
Given the context of your birth.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But, also, the other thing to just bring around here is the hospital sucks and is not a safe place No. Period. And your story is so wild and also I mean, I hate hearing it. I hate knowing that you went through that. And everyone gets drug tested when they come into the hospital, and and they're not told that. And I'm not saying that drugs like, nothing came up for you, obviously. But my point is, like, they're running tests on mothers. And here's Sparrow, a single mom, her partner isn't with her coming into an LA hospital. And like, you're you're nameless and faceless. You're just a statistic. You're just a a blood panel. You know? And the amount of error and accident that occurs within the system because of the lack of real human to human care is unacceptable. And you are you know, unfortunately, your first story is, like, I hope a very sobering wake up call to to any of us who think, yeah. Just know your rights. Just Yeah. You know? Like, all that doula rhetoric, that's complete bullshit.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Well yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thank you for saying that because I I I feel the exact same way. Like, I would never like, maybe if I get hit by a bus, you know, and, you know, like, okay. Maybe take me there then. But alone. Yes. That's what they're they're good at trauma. Right. They're good at they're good at trauma, I guess.
Speaker 3
I guess.
Speaker 2
And even then, they're They're
Speaker 3
actually still bad at it.
Speaker 2
There and I was gonna say
Speaker 3
something to them,
Speaker 2
you know. So terrible. What? I talked to my dad about it, you know, and we kind of both came up with this thing of, like, yeah, they'll help you if they don't kill you first. Right. And that's, you know, as as awful as that sounds, that's really how I feel at this point. So I'm glad that you were clarifying that for anyone who's listening because it can be easy to think like, oh, I can just rely on them as a backup or, you know, leave or find myself out. And it's just like, just don't go there. You know, especially in your deepest moment of vulnerability And, you know, how our births unfold, like, really shape us. And, yeah, I'm so happy that I have a different story
Speaker 3
to show. That kinda begs the question, like, if you could rewrite that first birth given your bladder, you know, doing what it was doing, like, what what do you think? What would have or could have
Speaker 2
been Indifferent? I think that I would have, reached out to and this is this is assuming that I didn't know the bladder releasing technique that I know now. I think that I would have reached out to midwives to say, can you come give me a catheter at home? And just never ever ever have left my home. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think that would have been, like, the next best thing that I could have.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. It makes sense to me that that would be if your if your goal is to artificially release your bladder.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
It makes sense to me that you would especially you being connected in the LA world, you know, trying to get a medical midwife over there to do it. And it's so painful that that the really, like, it was the it was the the false confidence, the the belief Yes. That you could, like, navigate it that knocked your ass upside down
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Which could be anyone. You know? Like, that's that's a point I just really wanna get across here because it is so random, and it is so it's so, like, nonspecific. Like, it's so random that that happened. Yeah. When you are an educated woman who knows how to speak, who understands the system, who's been to hospital births, like, you're the theoretically, unless you understand how truly nefarious the system is
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's easy to make up, like, oh, I'll just, like, work it. Yeah. Okay. But you're here in celebration because that Yes. Is over.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 3
Lessons learned. And, you know, your episode has gone on to help many, many, many free birthers release their bladders at home, which is so cool.
Speaker 2
That's so cool. I've gotten a lot of messages from women too, which is it it it really helped my healing. So thank you so much for just having this avenue with you to be able to share that really, really hard learned lesson with others.
Speaker 3
So then what happens, Sparrow?
Speaker 2
So, yeah. So then I I I meet this, you know, wonderful man who, like, right off the bat was just on board with everything that I needed and wanted, you know, for my life.
Speaker 3
And how old is your son when you meet this one?
Speaker 2
He was, two and a half. Like, we and we got pregnant, like, right away. So, yeah. So so my older son, Nicio, is two and a half. Yeah. We meet and it's before we even went on our first date because we met online, so we were just talking. And, I mean, we're already he's already picking my brain about babies and what I want, and he knows he you know, I had told him my my first story and just he was just intrigued, you know, about it. And, anyways, long story short, we we just felt, like, so deeply in love. And that was even something that, you know, there was, of course, a period of time where I was, like, I don't even know if this will happen for me, you know, in my in my late thirties and, you know, not that that means anything, but, you know, we there's these stories. Right? Will I meet somebody?
Speaker 3
You don't have with a kid.
Speaker 2
Great. Yeah. Will I'm a single mom, you know, will this happen for me? Yeah. And you do
Speaker 3
that. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. You don't know. And and I was also like, can I get to a place where I could be okay, you know, with only having my one? And I I did feel like I could kind of it was it was some work, but I felt like I could get there. But my biggest dream for myself, like, where I could really see, like, my joy coming through was being able to completely rewrite this story and to have a partner and a loving, you know, father, for my children. And and that's that's what happened. So, yeah. So he was on board from from day one. I go to matriarch. We come back. We decide, like, okay, we'll just open this door and see what happens. We get pregnant immediately. And, yeah. I don't know I don't know what else to say necessarily about the pregnancy other than, like, I felt so deeply seen and loved that it almost felt like it was enough for the current pregnancy and the past pregnancy. Like, it was it was really everything that my soul really didn't even know that it needed to that degree. So, yeah, just a lot of a lot of, happiness, a lot of safety, a lot of contentment, moving through that whole pregnancy. And I was definitely open to free birthing, but I was also really open to having, you know, a wise woman with me. And I ended up connecting with a woman who's part of the membership, Maeda, who's Brazilian. And I've had a longstanding, love affair with Brazil since I was about nineteen. I've danced in many, many Brazilian dance companies in Los Angeles, and I speak Portuguese, and I just have an affinity. So I just I I met Maeda at, a party of a mutual friend, and she brought three of her, four children, and they were all speaking Portuguese. And, like, Nicio was there. And and and Nicio speaks Portuguese too. So he was like, look at all these, you know, sweet boys. And and, anyways, long story short is that, like, she she was my she was present at the birth along with Keyon, my partner. And, she just really became just such a sister friend, just perfect fit for my healing journey. And I just loved her so much. I love her still so much. And I just had a really good time building a relationship with her over the months of my pregnancy. And, you know, she just was what I needed. She she really listened to me. She would always just ask me like when we would meet up, what do you wanna do? You know, what do you what do you feel like you need today? And sometimes that was bodywork. And sometimes that was talking about like and kind of honing in a little bit more on my nutrition and, you know, just whatever it was. It was just always fun and it was always tailored to whatever I needed. And, I remember getting towards the end of my pregnancy. I think it was maybe like around thirty four weeks, something like that. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't, like, gonna be blindsided in any way. And so I kind of had this conversation with her of, like, I wanna know, like, what exactly do you bring to birth? Like, what's in your birth bag? Like, just in case there was something that, like, didn't resonate with me. And she was like, let's go through my stuff. You know? So she we literally put everything from her bags out, and we just, like, looked at everything. And we talked about everything. And she, like medical? Not really. Right? Like, I think I think that before before she had heard about before she listened to, sister Morningstar's, you know, first breath episode, I think she had a bag and mask, in her bag that she had never used. And after that, she took it out. And so that, like, wasn't even so no. So no. There wasn't there wasn't a lot. There was, like, a reversal and there was, like, this amazing birth stool that came apart that she could screw together. There was, you know, hot water bottles and just like stuff, homeopathic stuff. Like nothing that I didn't feel like I wanted in my space. But she was like, let's make sure. Like, let's go through this together and let's make sure.
Speaker 3
Does she does she identify as a midwife? Like, does she use that word? Does she she she
Speaker 2
I think she has had a couple iterations throughout, you know, her years, but I think at this point she calls herself an authentic birth attendant. Mhmm. Yeah. Yes. And and, you know, she and I just had so much in common in being in LA and the characters and the ride of trying to figure out, do I wanna be a midwife? Because that was, you know, that's how you and I met. That's where I thought I was gonna go at some point and backtrack that train for sure. And so That's true.
Speaker 3
We did meet because I was gonna take your place.
Speaker 2
That's right.
Speaker 3
Medical midwifery schools.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Because I was done.
Speaker 3
And then we were both like, how about no? And let's just be really good friends.
Speaker 2
Yes. And yeah. And I just remember because I didn't even know you and you were, like, willing to take my place. I was like, who is this angel girl? Like, who does this?
Speaker 3
Like, I'm sending
Speaker 2
you don't even know. No. And I'm glad you didn't. But I we offered, like, that just even my openness, you know, was so yes. It was just amazing. So that's how we met. And where was I going with that story?
Speaker 3
Oh, just that we You're connected so well.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I I think that I think that that was a turning point for me of, like, really fully trusting that this woman could and would show up for me in the way that I really needed, you know and like her her level of commitment to service to women was really palpable for me and and she knew what was at stake for me. And we had talked through so many things. And I I've cried so much in this pregnancy. Just I was just, like, watery and soft, and she's like, this is good. She's like, this is really good. You know? Unfortunately,
Speaker 3
three years of serious survival. Yeah. I got this, you know, persona in the in the season.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I just remember her, like, after we went through her, you know, all of the stuff in her bag, and she just kinda sat at my feet and she just said, I will be there. You know, if you want me there, if you will have me there, she's like, I will be there and, like, the the deepest capacity to serve you. She's like, you can you can call me. You cannot call me. She's like, you can call me and have me sit on the couch. You can she's like, however you need me to best serve you, I will be there. And I and it was great.
Speaker 3
Caitlin, anything less than that is completely unacceptable. Yes. It's just not even, like, appropriate to be anything other than I'll be there however you need.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
I I saw a doctor one time tell my tell my doula client, who wanted to, like, get into a hands and knees or something. He said, well, I don't bend.
Speaker 2
Oh god. It's not funny. It's not funny.
Speaker 3
It's versus, like, a woman at your feet being, like, however you need me, I'm here in service of your Yeah. Your beautiful dream birth. It's like, yes. That is all that is is acceptable, in my opinion. And women listening, you know, if anyone is doing anything less than that, fire them.
Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah. And then she gave me a foot bath, and we just hung out and talked for, like, two more hours, and it was wonderful. Yeah. So, yeah, she was How
Speaker 3
yeah. Anything else to say about your pregnancy and the work of your pregnancy and heading into, you know, a birth a vag you know, your first vaginal birth but still outside the system. And, obviously, you know this, but, you know, plenty of women want to v vaxxed, but almost none you know, a very few amount choose to claim that outside of the very system that abused them. Yeah. You know? Part of sharing these, you know, v backs stories outside of the system is for women to know you don't have to return to your abusive systems. Like, look at this story. Look at this story. Babies come out. There's nothing in the system for you. So, yeah, what other, like, work might be happening?
Speaker 2
I'm really glad that you asked this question because, yeah, it is so important because I was not, like, fearless going into this at all. And I also just wanna say too that I specifically scoured your podcast for stories of women having, you know, free birth at home. And, of course, there were so many wonderful stories, but I think because we're so wired to learn from each other and to know that, oh, this woman came before me and she did it so I can do it, you know, specifically hearing the stories of Ita and Ariel because those are women that I know in real life. Like, their stories just were like bombs for me, bombs for my soul. And, and yeah. And that's really, I think, why, you know, I was also so excited to share this story because I want there to be at least one one more out there for women to know that. Mhmm. Yeah. But but yeah. Leading into my birth, I definitely had this really weird, doubt of like is this thing really gonna come out of my own like really, you know because it's such a strange thing to feel like I had I had done most of labor you know and even like I was in labor for three and a half days. I got to, quote, unquote, ten centimeters before everything got due. Right? Like, I had done the majority of the of the experience and not actually had the passage of a baby through my body. So it was really weird trying to navigate that in my pregnancy of, like, is this really gonna happen? And I remember after it did happen, I was able to just, like, this really almost go back in time to the moment that I was laboring with Nisio and just be like, I can see how it would have happened if I had been in a different circumstance. So, so yes, I had, I had fear. I had doubt. I had a lot of healing to do during my pregnancy and I really took the time to do it. You know, I really treated the pregnancy as, like I knew that this I knew that being able to be here and tell the story that I'm telling now and and how it unfolded that this was gonna be key to how I was gonna feel about myself and about motherhood. And I just knew the stakes were really high. So I did everything that I could, you know, like I got, I got a lot of self care and, you know, for those of you who don't know, like I am a prenatal massage therapist. I own a wellness center specifically that works with women. So I literally just went to all of the therapists that I've trained and worked with and love, and they helped me. So it was like, you know, I I have a lot of I have a lot of access to the care. So I was like, I'm not gonna not do it. And then I also, you know, I did some some work with my with my mentor. I did some, EFT tapping sessions with one of the other women that I work with. It's the emotional freedom technique. And that was really powerful and kind of I was I had a whole conversation with my, like first trimester self from my first pregnancy of just like, if I could have told myself what I know now in that moment, how would that have felt to receive that? And it was really powerful, really healing for me. There's a lot of things that were really healing. I talked to Nancy and I talked to Kristen because I had just come out of blood mystery school and, you know, I just loved them so much. And Nancy really helped me find the gems that I could take from my first experience to carry with me into my new experience. Kristen really helped me, just really realize that my emotions were strong enough to impact my birth. And even just that realization was really powerful for me. So yeah, I did a lot of things. And not to say that you needed, anyone else would need to do those things, but because I had access and because I had these relationships already intact, you know, and because I was in a place financially where I could do those things, I was like, why would I not do that? You know? It felt
Speaker 3
That that's what's interesting about this because, I mean, the potential if you hadn't have done that, the potential would be arguably higher that you would have unconsciously self sabotaged. Right? Like, that's the reason to do it is Yeah. That's the reason to cleanse and to do the work because, of course, if if someone can just, like, shut up and get out of their own way, a baby is definitely gonna come out. Right? That's obvious. That's what we know, except it's a really tall order to shut up and get out of your own way, especially with trauma and when you have a primary surgical birth and when you have the doubt and the fear that is groomed into us our entire lives. That's a tall order.
Speaker 2
It is. Yeah.
Speaker 3
I mean, of course, no one needs to do it because from a biological perspective, a baby will come out of you. But, also, I would say at the same time, everyone needs to do it because the likelihood that you'll self sabotage is is even higher without the work.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I didn't have and I didn't have this, like, easy breezy birth. So I am so glad that I did the work ahead of time because I I feel like the the the most difficult part of my birth was what was going on in my mind.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I mean, yeah. Maybe that's true for everybody, but, you know yeah. And maybe I can segue into into the actual birth because, yeah.
Speaker 3
Do you feel yeah. Do you feel complete?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think so. Did you have any other questions? You asked such great questions. Hey. I've been doing this for a while. Yeah.
Speaker 3
No. I think it yeah. You say whatever you wanna say that leads you into the start of your birth.
Speaker 2
I had a softness about me emotionally going into my birthing period, but I had some rigidity in my mental state. And it's weird that both of those things were true for me, but, like, my body was just really soft. Like, I would cry easily. I was just, you know, I was flowing through my emotions, but then I was also had some rigidity and and stupid things. Like, I thought my baby was gonna be an Aries. I thought I was gonna be like, stupid things. We're just who cares? Like, who cares?
Speaker 3
Isn't that your ass that control?
Speaker 2
Yes. And and let me tell you, like, it got knocked out of me real quick in that birth story, and I'll I'll get into that. Because it wasn't even like it wasn't even that conscious that I was doing it. I was kinda like, oh, I'm pretty sure. You know? But even in that, like, sureness, I was kinda like, right? Like, I'm gonna so, so yeah. And and I I was for sure, I was gonna go past forty weeks. Like, in my first birth, my water broke at forty one and two, and then he was in my arms at forty one and six. Three and a half days of labor. And so I was not expecting to give birth at thirty nine and one, which is what happened. And and I probably could have been because the whole week before I was having signs that I was getting like like my mucus plugs started coming out that never happened the first time and I should also say too that I was I was praying that my the start of my labor would look differently than the start of my first labor because I just felt like if it was gonna start the same that it might mentally throw me off. And it it started pretty much exactly the same. So it was I had I had some work to do there. I had some shit I had to work through. But leading up to it, I was losing my mucus plug on starting on Thursday. Baby was born on Sunday. So, you know, I could tell, like, my body's softening. It's doing all this stuff, but I'm still like, no. I'm still, like, a week and a half, two and a half weeks away. Like, you know, all this arbitrary story that I'm telling myself. And then let me see. Keon's last day of work was Friday. Like and then and I thought we were gonna have at least a week to just be together, and he was gonna have twelve weeks off. It was this awesome scenario. I was like, we can have, like, one of those to just, you know, do whatever we wanted. And then, yeah, like, Sunday comes around, and my water just pops.
Speaker 3
What were you doing when it happened?
Speaker 2
I was walking to the bathroom, which is exactly what happened the first time. Okay. And it's so weird because you know that water's opening is not necessarily, like, a super common way for labors to start, but it did. And it wasn't like a the huge gush. You know? It wasn't a full opening. It was just a small pop, baby gush, and then it was just like a trickle. And it was exactly the same start. Yeah. And you had
Speaker 3
to do a rewrite. We're rewriting.
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh. So
Speaker 3
So did it freak you out? Was it, like, bad, or, like, did it take a second? How how did that land for you?
Speaker 2
Took me it took me it's so weird. It took me a minute to like, first, I felt like a lot of anxiety boiling up, and then I dropped myself right into denial. It was just like, whoop, and then right into, nah. This isn't happening. So so my water popped. There was just a teeny tiny bit of mech that also kinda freaked me out even though I'm you know, I know. And it was, like, barely anything. It was very light. It was it was just like a tinge, just a tiny tinge. But I could feel my anxiety shoot up, and then I was just like, it's gonna be fine. This baby is not gonna come for another few days anyways. There goes the denial.
Speaker 3
Okay? Makeup. That's such a funny thing to makeup.
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 3
Well, let's do it in any direction. Like, either either women are like, the baby's coming today and it's actually in five days or Yeah. The baby's coming in five days and it's today.
Speaker 2
So that was my story. And then so we just we just decided to all go on a family walk. And now, like, I put on one of those, you know, postpartum underwear sets to just catch all the water that was starting to just leak out of me. And we go on this walk, and I'm I really did enjoy it. And it was just really sweet to see, like, Nisio, like, running and, you know, Kean and playing. And, you know, it was just like a really sweet walk. And then for some reason, I was just like, I was like, maybe I'll do some curb walking. Also, not thinking that I'm gonna have a baby for another few days, which I would not do that again for anybody who's listening. Walking. Where you put one foot on the sidewalk and one foot off the curb. So you're doing this. Why? Because it it's helps the baby helps the baby get down. I know. I would not do that again, Emilee.
Speaker 3
It's very doula of you. It was. It was.
Speaker 2
But this is this is I'm just telling you, like, if I had just surrendered, everything would have unfolded for me with a little bit more ease. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like, that's, like, that's, like, our life's lesson. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Right. So I don't know why. I don't really know why I did that. It kinda felt fun for the moment. And then
Speaker 3
Well, it feels fun to do something. Yeah. That's what it is. Right? We're doers. And and and and I'm only critiquing this because I'm the exact same way, and I so feel you. There's a, like, there's a there's still, like, layers for for us, I think, for most women, you know, even in the free birth world to, like, really understand through a lived experience that there's nothing to do. And that is where you need surrender, and that takes a lot of effort for people who live all up in our heads and are control freaks, which is pretty much everyone.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And it's isn't it also hilarious that I'm like, oh, yeah. I'm this baby is not gonna come for another few days, but I'm just gonna do this thing to help quote I'm making air quotes for anybody who's listening on on just the podcast. Yeah. So it was just I was I was in it. I was really working through some stuff mentally there, but I get back from the walk. And I also had, a reflexology session, on the books. We got back from the walk, like, at, like, three thirty. I had a a session booked at, like, four. And I had earlier in the day, I was like, do you think would you be open to making this a house call? Because I'm just not sure. My water's open. Like, just not sure what's gonna happen. So she shows up at four o'clock, and right before she gets there, I kinda start to I kinda start to get that I'm probably in labor. Oh, no. Sorry. Before she gets there yes. Let me back this up. Before she gets there, I take a shower after the walk and probably because baby was so wedged in there from all that stupid curb walking that I just did, I wasn't feeling him move. And it was kind of that was also I I remember having this moment of just, like, you know, starting to create a story of, like, why isn't my baby moving? I didn't feel any movements at all. I started, like, jiggling my belly. I started talking to the baby. I'm like, hey, can you give me something here? Nothing. Right? And then I'm start create the story of, like, okay. Great. You know, my first birth was derailed this way. Now this baby's dead. Like, you know, great. This is this is how this is gonna go. And then I just took a breath. Yeah. Later. I put my hand on my heart, and I just kinda checked in, and I was just like, I feel zero sadness. It was just a it was just a script running in my head, and I was just like, I feel zero sadness. I was like, I don't feel like this is actually what's going on. But it's I think that that was a serious reality check for me of, like, who the fuck cares what astrology sign your baby is? Who cares if you're gonna birth at thirty nine weeks? Who cares? I was just like, get on board, Sparrow, right now. Like, that was my reality check-in. So when I got out of that shower, I was just like, baby, I was like, you can do whatever you need to do as long as you are safe and you are coming to us because we love you and we want you. And, you know, I didn't wanna freak out my partner, but I but I was also, like, just being real with him. I was like, you know, I took a shower. I didn't feel a whole lot of movements, you know, for the first time. And I was like, can you just talk to the baby and see if you can get a response? And so he, you know, he had this whole thing that he would do throughout the pregnancy. And he was like, you know, baby, this is daddy, you know, over like, I need you to please give us a kick. Let us know that you're good. And it didn't happen right away. And he kind of went to a different spot, but he's really, like, sweet. And really,
Speaker 3
like, I'm trying to sleep the more I make the biggest move of my life. Thanks, guys. Yeah. Thanks, guys.
Speaker 2
I know. So but He's gonna get a little napping before birth. Probably. And because I probably wedged him in there, he's like, it's really hard to move now. I was like, my the water
Speaker 3
I was in is not believed that your curb walking did anything. Well I really don't.
Speaker 2
Open I'm open to that as well. Well, just because, like,
Speaker 3
the baby and the birth process is, like, more powerful than that. Yes. It's true. You've been wiggling around your pelvis the whole time. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2
So but luckily, Kean was not he was not scared. Yeah. He was not scared. He was not tripping. He was just super sweet. He just did exactly what I wanted. He made me laugh. Yeah. And then the baby went bang and, like, gave one big kick that was, like, totally undeniable. Both of us felt it, and we're like I was like, okay. Now I'm on board with this. Like, now I understand, like, what's going on. Then I had this reflexology session that I barely made it through, by the way, because she got there, at four o'clock, and the waves just started hitting me. And it was like, they took all of my attention and all of my like, I had to breathe through them, like, as soon as they started. So she's she's working on my feet and she and she's lovely and I know her really well. She's just like, these are coming, like, every two minutes from the start. Like, that was, like, right when I was, like, okay. This is happening. And it was just it took everything for me. And then by the time that she was done, which I was, like, I could barely get through it, like, barely even sit through it, I called my Yida and I was just like, okay. This is it's on. Like, head over. You know, when I was like I think I asked her to be there by, like, in, like, an hour and a half or something like that. I was just like and she was. By the time she got there, I wasn't I was full body trembling through all of the really, really powerful waves that were coming. And they were, yeah, they were pretty much, like it was pretty much, like, about four and a half hours. Because the first little bit I could it took, like, all of my energy, but I could still kind of breathe through them. But, like, the last, like, four and a half hours out of my six hour birth, I was uncontrollably, like, purple pushing through every contraction. Like, it was like my end my body was just cranking up and then I would just that's what I sounded like through every contraction and I could not I was trying to catch my breath. Some some of the times I could in the beginning and then, like, for the last, like, maybe, like, three hours of the labor, like, I could I was not breathing through, like, the first part of my contraction, then I would catch my breath and then just really try and breathe through it. It was so intense. It was yeah. I Excuse me.
Speaker 3
What was happening on the inside? What was happening in Sparrow's mind?
Speaker 2
In in my mind, I was also telling myself the story that this was gonna go on for days or at least twenty four hours or something. Like, I had you know, when you have a three and a half day birth, I'm sure it's like you. Right? We have similar stories. When you have a three and a half day birth and then you end up with a six hour birth, I had no idea that my body could do that in that amount of time. So
Speaker 3
I mean, the only one I had was I had never seen someone who had had a multiday birth have a multiday second birth.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's yeah.
Speaker 3
That's true. That was the only thing I kept, like because I had a six hour birth too. Coming back to is I was like, okay. I need a reality check here. Like, nobody who's doing what I'm doing does this for three days.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know
Speaker 3
what I mean? Yeah. But it's really hard
Speaker 2
to access those little pieces of watches. It really was. It really is. You just, yeah, I was I was wrestling with a little bit of self pity for other part of that. Yeah. And it didn't help too that like the entire, like the entire labor also felt like it was in my back and in my ass. Like it was so uncomfortable. It was so powerful, and it was just so on top of me. Like, I feel like I could have if it could have just given me a little bit more time to breathe, you know, in between. It could have just calmed down a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 3
You mean, we're going for ecstatic, blissful birth with our thirds. Okay?
Speaker 2
I really think it's I really think that I could we can pull that off. I really do.
Speaker 3
We have to.
Speaker 2
We have to.
Speaker 3
Apparently, it's just a choice. Yolanda said there's just a door hidden somewhere in there that you can
Speaker 2
choose from. Gosh. Alright. Well, I'm gonna be looking for that door. Let me tell you next time.
Speaker 3
I forgot. I didn't even know to look for it last time. Yeah. Oh my god. So it's just fucking insane. It's on on top of you. The word I used with mine, which I think you agreed with, was, like, being pummeled. It was just like
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3
No space to find my center. I was just like, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It yeah. I've there was a point where what I described, which now I know is transition. Like, I I got in the shower. And in the shower, I felt like a wet cat that just wanted to crawl up the walls of the shower. Just like, I wanted out of my skin for a minute. And I was just like and then I was just like, okay. Something's gotta shift here, and it's gotta be internally with me. And at that moment when I was in the shower first of all, Keon and Maeda were amazing. Like, they were just they didn't pity me. They were just both super grounded. They were both so sweet. You know, I I was a little bit upset that, like, I couldn't, like I tried at one point to kind of, like, wrap my arms around Keon and, like, kiss him and kind of have, like, a sway little moment. And then another one would come out and just, like, buckled. You know? And and he was so available for that, but I just it just was not it was just not happening. So I'm in I'm in the shower.
Speaker 3
Well, when you were on the walk. Yeah.
Speaker 2
That was when you could've done it. But I was still in denial then, so that was on me. So I'm in the shower. They're sitting there, and they're, you know, they're just witnessing me, without any other kind of, like, pity. They weren't, like, giving me, like, annoying kind of, you know, pep talks. And and I didn't really feel like I needed that either. Where's Nisio? So Nisio was there for, like, the first, like, hour like, two and a half hours of my birth. He was there from four to six thirty, and then my mom came and got him. It was so intense. I I would have liked for him to maybe have been there, but once I realized what I was dealing with and what I sounded like, I was just like, it I think it would have scared him. So so my mom took him. She she
Speaker 3
Sorry. I was just gonna say it wasn't for me, it wasn't just about that I was gonna scare her. It was also that, like, managing her energy was a no. Like like, I couldn't handle thinking about anyone else's energy in the space
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Which I wouldn't be able to get out of with my child. Was that similar? Yes.
Speaker 2
It was similar. So my mom lives three, eight minutes away from where we we've moved since then. But, so she took him and he spent the night there and then ended up coming, like, getting woken up and coming back to meet the baby later that night. But yeah. So it was just Kiana Maeda. And and so I'm in the shower. I'm wanting to crawl out of my skin. I'm looking at them, and I just asked them. I said, I I need I need some time by myself. I said, can you both of you leave, and I'll just call you back in when I'm ready? You know? And they they were like, absolutely. And they both walked out, and I just had some privacy. And I was just like, okay. Like I just really told myself I was like, you need to recommit to this because like there was never a moment like I was suffering through a lot, but there was never a moment that I was like, oh, I wanna be saved or like I was ever even tempted in any way to do anything other than what I was doing. I was like, I'm either gonna do this or I'm gonna die. Those are the two options, essentially. And I didn't actually ever feel like I was gonna die. It was just kind of, those are that's what's on the table for you. So and I was just like, let me just recommit to this. I was just like, I was toying with whether or not I wanted to check myself and just feel if they were if I could feel anything because I was so scared of, like, if I don't feel anything, is that gonna, like, wreck me? And so I kinda got right with myself first, and I was like, look. Your body is working really hard. Like, your body is doing something super powerful. If you wanna check yourself, go ahead. But I I was like, is it gonna wreck you if you don't feel anything? And I decided, no. I'm just gonna keep doing what I'm doing because eventually something will be there and there will be a baby. So I'm in the shower and I and I do check myself and I'm like, okay. I can feel ahead. And that was really
Speaker 3
my God.
Speaker 2
Yes. I mean, I'm I'm glad that I had kind of talked myself through the possibility of what what are you gonna feel if you don't feel anything? But I reached in and I was like, I do feel ahead and it was, you know, in like there's probably, like, four centimeters. Like, it wasn't anything, like, crazy. But, also, I'm really happy to share the story because, like, it doesn't the way that my birth unfolded, like, the baby was out, like, less than forty minutes later. But, you know, I didn't know that. And and based on what I was feeling, I was like, okay. I've I've made up another story, but it was fine. I was like, okay. I'm gonna do this for four more hours. You can do this at this intensity for four more hours. And I was like but I got this I just got this, like, renewed sense of, like, I'm I'm in this. I'm committed to this, and I'm gonna do this. Then my hot water ran out, and I was just like, fuck. Okay. I can still do this, but I I had not just gotten in such a bad zone. Recommit again. So I get out of the shower, and I didn't really consciously do this, but I only called Kian back into the room. I didn't call Maeda. And I I asked Kian, I was like, he had these, like, little squishy foamy workout mats. I said, can you put one here on the bathroom floor for me? And he brought it in, and then I got hit with another one. I just dropped to my knees, and I'm laboring there. And he he just stayed in there with me. He was kind of behind me. I'm on hands and knees. And then I don't think I could have been there. I don't think I could have been there longer than, like, fifteen minutes, and I just felt a head just fall onto my pelvic floor. It almost like, it didn't I didn't hear a pop or, like, necessarily feel a pop, but it was almost like something popped open and the baby dropped onto my pelvic floor. And I was just like, holy shit. Like, so so what I'm gonna describe from the time that I felt my baby drop onto my pelvic floor to the time that he was outside my body was less than a minute. It was insanely fast. So what I'm gonna kinda talk through is, like, all happening in just seconds. Right? So I feel his head drop onto my pelvic floor thinking that I was still hours away. And my first thought was no way, no way this is happening right now. And then my second thought was hallelujah this is happening. It felt so good. Like, it was the only little bit of relief that I got. And then, like, the second that his head was on my pillow floor, there was so much force behind his body that my Yoni just totally swole around his head just, like, in an instant. Like, it felt like, you know, like a tuba player, like, blowing up a balloon. Like, it's, like, so easy. Right? You know? For it's like my tissues felt like nothing. They were just and then I was just like, you know, and I'm trying to, like, acknowledge what's happening because it's happening so fast. And then my birth worker brain kicked on for, like, a pathetic few seconds where I'm like, slow this down because that's a lot of stretching for these tissues really fast. And I literally let out, like, the the most pathetic, like, four little pants. Like, and then his whole head was out. There was it didn't do anything. Like, my body was just nonstop training. I remember saying it out loud, like, babies coming. Because I don't even think even though Keon was right next to me, I don't think he really realized that there was, like, a head right there and that it was out. And then and then that kind of cued Maeda and she didn't actually come into the room because I hadn't invited her and I just had said out loud, baby's coming. And then, yeah, a few seconds later his entire body shot out between my legs onto the mat in front of me. And this is another really, I think, important part of my story that I want people to hear too, is that if I had been with any other care provider, even even, you know, someone who had some medical training, but thought that they were, you know, really of service to to a member they met home in their own autonomy. I think that it absolutely would have been pathologized that my son was complete he had no tone. Like, he was just like a floppy little baby. Right? So he he shoots out and he's face up, but his little legs kind of cross over one another. So at that point, I didn't even realize or care if he was a boy or a girl. And I, I remember just like reaching for him. And even though I was kind of like dazed and shocked by what had just happened, I was just, I did have this moment that when I cry that, like, I was like, my hands are the first hands touching my baby. And I was very aware of that. And that felt so good because that's what I had wanted, you know, for my first night. That wasn't at all what happened. So even though, you know, he's this little floppy guy, I was just like, he's mine, and I'm discovering him. And, and yeah. So he he wasn't breathing at all, and he was and he was floppy. And then I I just kinda quietly said Maeda's name and I wasn't freaking out at all. And, you know, I had listened to Sister Morningstar's and your episode about newborn first breaths. And so I had Maeda and we could kind of talk through it and she had told me that she had had a client who, whose baby took about ten minutes to transition and just, you know, it was not, it was not a scary thing for her. So she came in and just really quietly sat her back against the cabinets on the floor of my bathroom. And I just started talking to to the baby and he we didn't have a name picked up for him. I didn't know if he was a boy or girl or anything at that point, but I just started kissing him and talking to him. And, I remember he, like, opened one little eye, like, like, one of those, like, creepy dolls, you know, and then just kinda shut it. Not saying he was a creepy at all, but just the way his eye opened and then kinda shut. You know, he had a crazy wild ride getting shot out into the world like that. So, you know, and I just kept saying, like, hi. You know? How like, you're here. We love you. You know? It's time to come into your body. And I was rubbing him and kissing him and holding him. And, and Kian kinda moved. He sat on the toilet right next to me. Because he had been behind me and I didn't know it at the time because he's just so like stoic and quiet, but he was, he was a little freaked out internally. But as I kept, you know, talking to him, he kind of like, he was like, oh, I get it now. And he kind of got on board and then he put his face right next to my face and we both just started kissing the baby. And, you know, it's saying like, it's time to come into your body and we love you. And, and it was a really long time. Like he would take little sips of air and then just kind of stop. And, you know, I wouldn't have had any idea of exactly how long it was except that Maeda told me later. Like, I found out, like, maybe, like, a week later exactly how long it was, and it was eighteen minutes for him to fully kinda come into his body and be breathing.
Speaker 3
But, also, he was connected to your placenta and getting sips. Yes. You know? So, like, the transition, okay, took twenty minutes, but he wasn't without oxygen.
Speaker 2
Correct.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And that distinction.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I I knew that, and, yeah, and he was okay. And at one point, you know, after we've been at this for, like, a while, like, a kid here, he just had, like, stuff in his face, so he just really gently kinda sucked and spit out some gunk that was in his nose. And he he didn't like it. Like, he made this, like, little, like, grimace, like, you know, like, why did he do that? And at that moment, I was just like, I'm annoying him, and that's so sweet. Like, it really, like, touched my mom a heart. I was just like and I told him, I was like, I'm sorry, baby. I was like, I didn't mean to, like, bother you. But, like, when he made that little, like, like, don't do that to me kind of face, I was like, it it just I knew that he was gonna be totally fine, you know? And I apologized to him and just kinda kept calling him in. And, it was just really sweet where I could just tell that I was just annoying him and that he didn't actually really maybe even need that at all.
Speaker 3
See, like, I'm just trying to help. I don't know what I'm doing here.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And and so, yeah. And I was just also so grateful that I wasn't anywhere other than that situation because Mhmm. Yeah. Like he could have easily been taken and, you know, it would have it would have dramatically changed how I felt about my birth. You know?
Speaker 3
Well, you wouldn't if you had been with, like, medical providers, you wouldn't have even gotten to that part because your water's opened with no significant labor with meconium. Like, you would have had a c section Yeah. So early in your story even with You know what I mean? Yeah. And then even to get to this point, which you wouldn't have even gotten to this point with other Yeah.
Speaker 2
I guess I was only thinking, like, if I had had, like, a midwife or a midwife at home who thought that she was in support of free birth, but then saw this particular scenario unfold. Do you know what I mean? That's kind of what I was thinking. Like, even in that scenario, like, it could have gotten sabotaged.
Speaker 3
Well, yeah. Even even a well meaning doula sabotages births all the time. Like, I interview and debrief women all the time who have all sorts of people at their births that are outside the system technically, but everyone there has been so conditioned by the system that they're all terrified of what's happening, and they will still sabotage the birth for sure. Yes. Of course. But a limp, you know, toneless baby connected in an undisturbed normal physiological birth in dark room surrounded only by her family, you know, with the mother who's totally in her body and in the room speaking to the baby, like, I would actually say that that is totally normal Mhmm. Like, how you've described it. And and both my babies were born very similarly. And it's so different when it's in this context where they're still connected. Yeah. Literally, they're getting their blood transfusion. The mother is who's waking them up. And I think it only feels crazy because of our conditioning. Because when you watch, like, animal videos, you know, or
Speaker 2
see They're do that shit too. They're like, love for a while. You know? It's interesting. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And thank god, yes, thank god that you were so well supported and that no one interrupted your halo and that he got the exact full range of time that he needed to fully arrive because there is that spiritual component I think about a lot of how how much our culture interrupts the claiming of life. Yeah. And there's something so potent about a baby being born and choosing it, like, choosing to claim its life in every way. And I think people might confuse that with like, oh, do we not help them? It's like, well, of course. If the mother instinctually wants to do something, of course. The mothers do whatever they feel like they want to do, whether it's even helpful or not. Like Mhmm. If you feel it, do it. It is interesting to kind of investigate the layers of the suctioning piece because there's still this, like like, we need to do something. There's still this, like, wanting to help piece that's really it's not wrong or bad. It's just interesting to see how, like, deep that stuff runs in us. You know?
Speaker 2
It does. I mean, I waited a really long time before I did that. But
Speaker 3
but, yes.
Speaker 2
But, yes, it was funny.
Speaker 3
So tell me about when you, saw that he was a boy.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. You realize we realize he was a boy because as he was, like, really coming into his body and then he, like, really started breathing. I was just looking at his face, looking at his face. And then all of a sudden, I, like, feel something, like, hit my shoulder wet. And I, like, look at Kean. I'm like, what's happening? We realized, like, he's peeing on both of us. Like, and we looked at him and we're like, oh my God. It was like, we have a boy. So, yeah. So he peed on us and that's when we realized that he was a he. And, yeah. And then the placenta came really easily. So, you know, we sat we sat there for, like, a little bit. And then Maeda, kinda asked me. She's like, are you she's like, we should probably maybe start thinking about the placenta. What do you think? And I was like, yeah. That sounds, like, good to get that out. And so she she gets a bowl, sets it in front of me, turns around to get something else. Meanwhile, I, like, just put my leg one leg up over the bowl and just give just, like, a tiny little push and it came right out. And she turned she turned back around. I think she was, like, getting a towel or something. And she's like, wait. What? What? It's out? And I'm like, yep. And she's like, well, okay. She's like, birth complete. I was like, birth complete. And then, like, they helped me, like, get all like, wiped all the blood off me and just kinda help me walk to bed and just kinda checked in if I felt dizzy. And I was like, I feel great. I was like, I'm good. You know? It just felt great to get in bed with my baby. And, yeah, it felt great to have the placenta out. It felt good to just, you know, be complete, to be on the other side of it and to have this, yeah, beautiful, boring, climbing bed with my man. And, yeah. And after a little while, we called my mom, and we just said, if he he's meaning, Nisu, if he is willing to wake up and he wants to come, like, he's welcome. And, again, it was, like, three minute drive over, so super easy. And he came and he met the baby. And we, we decided to name him Roshi, which means, like, master or enlightened teacher in Japanese. And it just felt very fitting to me because I felt like he taught me so much throughout that birth. And it was one of the names that we had kind of set aside, but we didn't know we didn't know until we met him what what his name was gonna be. So yeah. So little Roshi was with us and and postpartum was, so much better than the first time. You know? Not yeah. I just had so much great care. And like I said, Kian was off work for for twelve weeks, and he was just so absolutely present and of service. You know? Like, I mean, I never had my water never ran out. I never didn't have snacks or food next to me. And then, you know, watching him, like, really take the lead on fathering Nicio, like, getting him up, getting him ready for school, cooking him every meal, taking him he was he was still in school at that time, taking him to school, picking him up. And it was almost like like, I kind of became like a second thought to Nisio. There was no like, I was like, there was, like, a couple moments where I was like, hey, dude. Like, can I
Speaker 3
can you acknowledge me over here? Natural spinning of the wheel
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
In a functional family. You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2
And so he he had so much love and attention from him, and I feel like their bond, like, really solidified during that time. And, yeah, and then I just got to really heal and, yeah, be with the little one.
Speaker 3
Anything else you wanna add about postpartum? Anything that surprised you or that you particularly loved or that stood out?
Speaker 2
I think that it it would be good to just talk about, the tear that I had and how it healed, just because, yeah, just because there's still I feel like a lack of stories around what tearing and not having sutures can be like. You know? So, of course, like, having a baby land on my pelvic floor and then be exited my body in less than a minute. Like, my body really did not have a whole lot of time. So I had, yeah, I had a tear, and I I really just healed it with I kind of rotated between using seaweed and manuka honey. And then whenever I would use the restroom, rinsing with a peri bottle with comfrey tea and then drinking comfrey tea and just, you know, eating a traditional diet and having a lot of bone broth soups and resting and keeping my legs closed. And I know all those things have been kind of said on the podcast again, but I was just like amazed at how well I healed, like how just how completely I healed, how well I healed, how easy it was to transition back into intimacy when I felt ready. Like, all of it was just easeful despite having, you know, a tear during birth. So I just, just I couldn't have even imagined having someone come at me with a suturing needle after you know, it's, like, it's insane. And, also, you know, it's, like, when when I think about my birth and, like, all that purple pursing, like, I was swollen. Like, how are you gonna repair something that you can't even see that well?
Speaker 3
It doesn't repair it. It's bullshit. It's bullshit. It hurts it and traumatizes it. It doesn't happen. It's a fucking lie.
Speaker 2
So I just I think I just
Speaker 3
It just stretched and is swollen and then shove a needle repeatedly through it. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's just awful. When the
Speaker 3
big when the big spoiler alert is it would've just healed on its own, like, that is some unethical shit
Speaker 2
out there. Yeah. Yeah. So I just I wanted to speak to that because I was just yeah. I just healed so well, so completely. I feel so great. Like, just yeah. So I just wanted I want other women to know that that's, yeah, very, very possible. And then besides that, you know, besides feeling just you know, I just felt so integrated, so much more joyful, so much more Yeah. Yeah. Everything after that, and I still feel that, like, it has carried through, into my life and to, you know, who who I am now. And I'm so happy I got to rewrite this story, and I hope it's helpful for some women out there. And, just like, you know, like I said, the other stories that I listened to to prepare for my birth helped me so much.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's so it's such a big deal. And, again, I'm just, like, thinking on that that so many women believe until they don't that after these horrific and unnecessary surgeries, that their only choice is to, like, roll the dice with the same people. Yeah. Which is insane. And you just don't have to. You can just allow your baby to emerge. You can allow, you know, your baby to be born. And, also, you know, I think, also, what's really underneath a lot of this is that people are afraid to take responsibility. People are afraid to own their choices. Yeah. Women who tend to birth outside the system tend to also, own more of their choices. Like, it doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's not like this one thing. You know? Like, the the concept of practicing self responsibility is very, like, alive in our community and the women that free birth for obvious reasons. But I guess what I wanna say is that, you know, for anyone listening kind of on the verge, like, do whatever you want, of course, because only you are going to live with with the results of your choices. And your doctor doesn't live with it. They go home and clock out and totally forget about you. You know, your midwife doesn't live with your choices like you do, and you and your baby do. And like Sparrow said earlier, the stakes are so freaking high. You better ask yourself what is the what is the best way that you can birth and then do everything you can to align yourself with that because the stakes are so high. And and we can what am I trying to say here? That there is actually no such thing as getting out of taking responsibility because only you make the choices for your life. So this idea of, like, passing the buck and, like, if something happens you know? This is all very unconscious for most people, but, like, at least the doctor will be there to basically take the blame. You know? And and that's a big thing to investigate. And that's a lot of what we talk about in RBK school and and everywhere else that that I teach and that Yoh teaches because if you are if you aren't willing to take responsibility for your choices, you also can't have what you want
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Is really what I'm getting at and, like, your willingness to go into your darkness, do your work, face the reality of of what has, you know, resulted in in painful results is actually what put you on the path to get willing to have something different. Right? Like, your willingness to do the work, which means facing yourself and owning your choices can lead to to exactly what you described, which is just best. I love the image of of of Keyon getting Nisio ready for school and you just in bed with this baby and just, like, what a I mean, especially because I love you as my friend, but just what a what a family healing experience. I'm just so glad that you get to know that. And, of course, you do. And I'm really proud of you and the choices that you've been willing to make to have this. This didn't just, like, happen. You know? You called me. You've said yes to it, which is why it's here.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Yeah. And thank you for being such a wonderful friend and witnessing me through all of these iterations of this story and to see me where I am now. So I love you.
Speaker 3
Love you too. Thank you so much
Speaker 2
for sharing your story here. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
