Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Hello, women. I've got doctor Rebecca Cohen back on the show this week in celebration of our newest collaboration. One of the most common requests that I have gotten from you all is to create a pelvic health course that covers all the problems, so to speak, of the postpartum pelvis and the pelvic floor or bowl, as Rebecca calls it. Well, we did it. We've been working hard all fall behind the scenes to create the most info packed, helpful, comprehensive course on the postpartum pelvis. It's called your postpartum pelvis, and it is for you to aid you in your healing, to keep you healing at home outside of the medical system. Because what do we know? We know that mothers at large are having traumatic births with serious damage done to their pelvic floor with directed pushing, instruments, just trauma on top of trauma, and then women get back to the grind well before their pelvic bowl is truly healed. Women are walking around with prolapse, diastasis recti, hemorrhoids, like it's something they just need to accept about their new mother body. Rebecca was this mother, mother of nine. Her body was wrecked again and again from having babies and getting back to work, running on concrete, having no idea how to deal with this enormous disembodiment she was experiencing. Get this, she was literally scheduled for a hysterectomy when she went to a holistic pelvic health retreat and finally got the right guidance. I'm very happy to say Rebecca has kept her uterus and learned the techniques and care routines to heal her prolapse and her severe diastasis. So listen up. If you are peeing when you sneeze, healing from a tear, nervous to have sex because of the pain, avoiding the trampoline with your kids, watching your uterus fall out of your vaginal opening when you bear down to have a bowel movement, wondering how to self assess prolapse or diastasis, have hemorrhoids that won't go away, or just feel like something's not quite right down there, this episode and our newest course, your postpartum pelvis, is crafted for you. Rebecca has now supported thousands of women over decades, helping them come back into embodiment and wholeness after childbirth using the very wisdom within this course. You deserve to feel whole again, and I am just so proud to finally have this kind of resource on the Freebird Society platform. Go to free birth society dot com slash your postpartum pelvis and start healing today. Alright. Enjoy our conversation. Alright. Welcome back to the show, Rebecca.
Speaker 3
Hi. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm glad you're here. I'm glad we're doing this a bit, spontaneously. We are celebrating, collaboration, between you and I. And this is an episode to, name that collaboration, and and really to get into well, let me back up. I have wanted to do an episode on the postpartum pelvis for a really long time, and I haven't known who it was going to be with. And so I'm really excited that this has come into my sphere. And for any of you who are new to Rebecca, she's been on the episode before or sorry. She's been on the show before, and you can, find that in the show notes. We'll be sure to link it. The last episode you joined us for was around your shift from being an OB GYN into, moving into the holistic field after taking RBK. And so the previous episode was all about that journey. So it's really it's a it's a fan favorite, so go listen to that if you haven't. But today, we are gonna talk about Rebecca's very personal journey with, her postpartum pelvis and how that paired with her just giant well of of knowledge from working with women for so long. So we're celebrating Rebecca's course, through Free Birth Society. We're calling it your postpartum pelvis and the big stuff we're gonna be getting in today. So listen up if this is you or if you work with postpartum women, we're gonna get into diastasis, we're gonna get into prolapse, we're gonna get into tearing, and all that Rebecca has learned or a snippet of what Rebecca has learned in this arena. And then we're gonna get you all jazzed up so that you can go buy this course, because it'll change your life. This is this is must have information. Welcome.
Speaker 3
Thanks. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2
So let's start with your story because you were texting me some crazy shit the other day, and that was when I was like, we gotta record this. I mean, like we just said beforehand, you know, part of my intention with with bringing this onto the show is you and I both are acutely aware of how depressing and hopeless feeling women can feel after their births, particularly in these realms. You know, is my body broken? Can I heal? Am I stuck with diastasis forever? Is this prolapse? What do I do? And so, yeah, this is such an important topic, and and I'm just so glad to have you here. So why don't we start with your story of of some of what you were sharing with me privately?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thanks. So, just my background, if you haven't listened to the other podcast, is I was trained as a, more medical midwife and then went ahead to medical school. And I was trained in family medicine and then did further, training in obstetrics. And so I was, also having my own children during that time. And I'm a mother of nine, but I birthed five of my children, and the others came to my family through adoption. And, my first son, I had during residency. And at the time and so I think the big thing is, and what I was telling Emilee is, is that for one thing I had blocked out a lot of this, even though this was the beginning of my swing back to holistic care was to begin to figure out how to take care of myself. But my first son I had during residency. And even though I was in family medicine, residency at that time, as in taking care of the family, that was back before now, actually, Congress put through residency hours, like, that you can only work so many hours. But at that point in time, you there were no residency hour caps. So I went back four weeks to the day after having my son to these, like, a hundred plus hour work weeks. Right? No. So I'm still a little bitter about it actually because Yeah. I realized at the time, like, how difficult that was, and I just couldn't believe I was getting the support not getting the support from my residency program. It was awful. But, you know, he was my first one. It was a forty hour labor. I he was a big kid, like, all of that. And I went back four weeks to the day, like, back up on my feet, back up working a hundred plus hour work weeks. So we used to do, like, thirty six or it he was between thirty four and thirty six on, and then, like, twelve to fourteen off, and then thirty six on, twelve off like that. And we would go through these rotations. So I'd be I the everything like the diastasis you know, I I tour with that one and all of that. I'm moving right along. So my second one I had, following my training, I'd finished my residency, finished my post, my, fellowship training, and she came super fast. She was a super fast, labor at home, like, under two hours, came out super fast. And I had no clue how to take care of myself, and that felt great comparatively. I felt great. And I was a runner, and I used to run on concrete. And within two weeks, I was out running No. Concrete again to light
Speaker 2
it. Yes.
Speaker 3
So the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists or, you know, the quote unquote expert, the college of obstetrics and gynecologists
Speaker 2
The cult the cult of obstetrics and gynecology.
Speaker 3
Still to this day, if you look up because I looked them up when I was rerecording this course. Like, what the guidelines say? They still say the same thing, which is what I was taught not only in my medical training, but in my midwifery training was, if you feel good, then return. Like, you can return. And it says the quote says, if you had an uncomplicated pregnancy and normal spontaneous, vaginal delivery, you can return to exercise soon after birth. That's what it says. That's all it says. That's the whole guideline, soon after birth. It says if you had a cesarean, ask your physician first. But that's, like, the sum total. And so I feel like I felt good, and I was out running on concrete. So then now you go to my third pregnancy. So my third pregnancy, no surprise. And, actually, I do wanna say, after my second pregnancy and I was having, like, all this lower back pain, and my yoga instructor said to me and this is again within the first month for postpartum because I'm already out attending yoga class. She was like, maybe you need to take more rest. And I remember at the time, I was like I mean, I listened to her, but I was also like, I don't, I was the quote unquote expert on Yeah. You know, I was an OB, you know, and okay. And so now my third pregnancy, it's my fourth day after pregnancy and I bear down the poop and out comes my uterus. Like, out comes my cervix right through
Speaker 2
of course, because comes your uterus or your cervix?
Speaker 3
My cervix. So my cervix. Just my cervix, like, poking down through my vaginal opening as I'm pooping. Right? And that kinda freaked me out. Yeah. I got back into my bed, and I called my friend slash colleague who was an OB. And I and he was an older, guy who I you know? And I called him, you know, because I had his cell phone. I'm like, my uterus just, like, came out. My cervix just came out while I was pooping. And he said, well, honey, just tuck it back up in there.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So, you know, I just tucked it back up in there.
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 3
So that was day four postpartum. Day ten postpartum happened to be Halloween, and I was strapping my ten plus pound baby on and trick or treating with my other kids. I had the point is is I had no clue. So my fourth, same thing again, but it wasn't a big deal this time. I remember, like, bearing down. And I remember my mom came into the bathroom, and I was sitting there and my cervix was hanging out the opening, and I was, like, pulling some memories out of it. And she was like, what are you doing? And I was just like, don't worry about it, mom. Go away. I got this. Go away. And so that was my fourth. And then I went on to have a fifth. So that's my pro lab story in short. And so I was
Speaker 2
Well, if you can heal, anyone can.
Speaker 3
Right. So if I was pregnant, nursing, or both for eleven years straight. Right? I had those kids one after another after another. And so here I was having prolapse, not only of my uterus, but I also had a cystocele, which is where the bladder prolapses into the vaginal vault, and a rectocele where the rectum prolapses into the vaginal vault. So I had all of them. I used to I used to joke with the other OBs in my office that I worked with that my seals were barking, which was just like, I could feel my prolapse coming down. Right? Yeah. And so I went to the OB that I worked with, and they recommended a hysterectomy. I was thirty six years old at the time. Thirty six, thirty seven years old. I went to the urogynecological surgeon that I referred people to for surgery. She told me I I went to my family practice doctor who put her arm around me and said, honey, that uterus has done so much for you. It's time to get her out. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so I actually went and made oh, so the OB that I went to, by the way, when she felt up inside and did an exam, she told me your side walls are blown. That's what she was talking about, my vaginal side walls. She tells me your side walls are blown, and I believed her. I heard I
Speaker 2
heard hers.
Speaker 3
And I believed her. So the OB sent me to, do pelvic floor therapy, which is not helpful. And I just ended up feeling guilty because I didn't feel like I was doing those right or enough or anything like that. So basically, I decided that the move for me was to have a hysterectomy and a bladder tech.
Speaker 2
Well, you I mean and you barely decided it. You were told it by every single person in your life that you had any sort of trust in.
Speaker 3
By two different OBs, my the you're a gynecological surgeon, my family practice physician. They all sort of recommended that. And so I was trying to decide timing wise, like, my kids were going back to school, and it'd probably be better to do it after they were back to school. And then I also wanted to take this course, this holistic pelvic care course from Tammy Lynn Kent, who does holistic pelvic care. And that was sort of my weaning present was, like, I would be able to go to this conference and spend a week out in Portland. And so I was at that course.
Speaker 2
Oh, thank god.
Speaker 3
I know. I know. And I was trying to time it. Right? And my date was two weeks later. My Oh my god. That my hysterectomy was two weeks later. So I was at that course, and the mind frame was such a shift, and my work was such a and we practiced, of course, on each other's. And so one of the, I remember her name's Abigail Regan. She's a a midwife and a practitioner, in California. She was my partner. And so I confessed to her as she was doing my inner pelvic work. Well, my sidewalls are blown. And she's like, what? She was just like and I go, oh, my you know, the OB told me my sidewalls were blown. And she looked me right in the eye and she said, well, that didn't serve you, did it? And I was like, oh, I can let that go. Like and by the second day, by the time I was doing the work, I really knew. I remember, like, the exact hallway I was in on break. And I was like, number one, I'm gonna start doing this work when I come back and close my conventional medical practice. I and number two, I'm not gonna have to have that surgery. Like, I knew it even though I didn't quite know which. And so I began on a deep journey of healing there from holistic pelvic care to learning about my abdominal therapy to learning about proper women's pelvic alignment. And it was so at the time, I was wearing a pessary. Do you know what the pessary is like, diaphragm on steroids, like a big donut kind of that you stick up to hold your uterine organs up. I would still by the way, going to the gym, lifting weights, running on concrete, I would just like pop my pessary up there. Right? And so I learned how to do appropriate exercise for the female body. I also had a six finger diastasis at that time. So, like, all of my fingers plus one, that's like, nobody had ever talked to me the whole time. But not only had nobody ever talked to me about that, but I, as a physician, as an obstetrician, had no clue. Right. Women used to come in and tell me that stuff. Like, tell me something doesn't feel right down there or something. And and I would kind of really honestly not know what to do. You know, stick my two fingers up and feel their womb and whatever. I didn't even know, like, to examine them standing out. I didn't know. And if they if they kinda complained about it enough, I sent them to PT. But other than that, I had no clue what to do. And women were coming to me when I think not only about myself, but when I think about all of the medical patients
Speaker 2
who were
Speaker 3
me as their physician, all of those years. And all of the women that I saw, it's like you see him for vaginal delivery in the hospital and you see him six weeks later. And Laura looked at me and she's like, well, you didn't do that, did you? And I was so embarrassed. But the answer was like, yeah.
Speaker 2
Of course she did.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I
Speaker 2
have a question.
Speaker 3
Yeah. How
Speaker 2
disembodied did you feel with all of that? Like, I understand the, like, top layer of survival, and this is just how it is. But, like, now you now that you have a reference point or many reference points, like, what does that feel like?
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know, it's so it's so interesting because, like, when I first learned holistic pelvic care, I had already done thousands of pelvic exams or whatever. Felt you know, with this, like, right hand like, this I
Speaker 2
hate this. I hate this.
Speaker 3
And when I switched, it was actually the first or second day, Tammy said to me, you know, as she was walking around, she said, switch to your left hand.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And so suddenly I switched to like one finger with my left hand and I was feeling and so it was totally different. Like feeling the muscles, feeling the tissues, feeling the energetic layers and all of that. And so when I was first doing my own, like, vaginal massage and my inner pelvic work to help my organs align again, I had no clue. I had no clue, like, what? Oh, I had checked myself in labor for dilation with my right hand fingers. Right? But I had no clue other than that, like, super directive, here's your ovaries poke around. Do they feel normal? Where's the cervix? In and out? Like, I have no clue. And so not even on my own body. Like, I wasn't even much less the women's bodies that I was touching, to have that sense of that. So for me, it's like this delightful coming home. Yeah. It's really a coming home. And, you know, I still technically have prolapse. It's not like I have zero prolapse, but I still have my uterus. I no longer wear his, a pessary. I no longer am thinking that I need a hysterectomy. And if I do have symptoms, then I modify what I'm doing to help with my symptoms. Kind of like if you have migraines. Like, if you have migraines and you get migraines all the time, which is another thing, like, throughout medical school and stuff. I was having multiple migraines. And then now I have, a few handful of times a year because I've learned how to take care of my body. And, but people, when they have migraines, they learn how to manage their migraines. And then but there's something about prolapse. Like, people, when they have prolapse, it's like, oh, I am broken. And that's what I felt like. Oh, I screwed up. And I actually got super into weightlifting and powerlifting, and I was like dead lifting two hundred pounds and stuff. And then then what surprise, my prolapse symptoms started coming back. And I even went through that all over again, like, three or four years ago where I was like, I had gotten disembodied again, Emilee, honestly. I was like, oh, no. And then I was like, oh, I really broke myself this time, and I didn't. It's all fine. It's all back up there. It's all like and so it's a it's a continued journey with myself and conversation with myself. And truly, like, this type of care that we give ourselves is honoring ourselves. It's a continuing, decision to honor ourselves and honor our bodies. And then it's all out there, like, what we can do. And that's why I was so excited about putting this course together because of the things in the course are the things that I did, like, ten years after
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Of having prolapse. Like, ten years of after having all those kids, ten years later, These things I did ten years later to help heal, the prolapse.
Speaker 2
Let's get into some of that. So we had said we're gonna touch on prolapse, diastasis, and tearing. Let's do tearing first. You said something kinda wild before we started recording. So, you know, my intention is to share some real helpful tips and tricks, you know, on this episode so that it can go far and wide. I really want, you know, those of you listening who have struggled with these things or are afraid of them happening, just to know that that it all is so healable and repairable. And from from my lens where I have sat in birth work, any any woman that I can think of that I've ever seen work on this with the right framework and road map, with commitment has healed. You know? So you're not broken. It's not ruined. I have a hard time believing anyone needs their womb out. And so, yeah, I hope you'll find some solace here and some comfort and, and inspiration because it does it does take what's the right word? Like, it does take stretching out of our comfort zones to choose healing, and it's vulnerable, and it's scary, and it's expansive. And this is such a common issue. Obviously, women are blowing out their pelvic floor with traumatized, you know, fucked up, directed, pushing, numb, getting cut. Like, okay. Yes. Don't do that. You know, if you're listening to this podcast, you already know. Just don't go do that. But you can totally have a sovereign birth and do all the the postpartum stuff that that you referenced. So okay, so let's take it away. Let's start with tearing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So tearing. So, you know, you and I have talked about this a lot, the the sort of the really bad tears. And I'm not willing to, like, never say never that that would never ever happen on a physiologic birth, but you were like, I haven't seen it. I haven't seen it yet. Like, the really big bad ones. And then the other and where you might need, you know, some help to bring those tissues back together. So the other thing is that I sutured everyone. Like, I sutured everyone all of the time. I just did. And I had my own experience. It was actually after that third to where I had an allergic, type reaction to the suture material.
Speaker 2
And When you were sutured?
Speaker 3
When I was sutured. Yeah. With my third child, I was sutured. And I had an allergic reaction to the type of suture material she used. And so my body, really had this within I can't it was around two weeks. So somewhere like twelve days to two weeks, like, the stitches were all like coming apart and my whole, you know, yoni was red and all of that. And I ended up going in and, again, having a colleague, like, help cut them out of me. And it kind of and, like, what I know now, is that if I didn't I feel like if I didn't get sutured and knew how to do proper postpartum care and lay up in bed and keep my legs together and what I understand now about the healing of the tissues, I know I would have been better off. And, yeah. And so it's been amazing for me to witness the healing of the body rather than do sutures on everyone just because that's what I was always taught to do. When you have an you know, when there's, medicalized birth and the majority of the women that I my birthing experience have been with, still was women with epidurals and their legs up in stirrups, and then they push that table over, with all the instruments, you know, and I glove up and put my stuff on. And there's always suture material there and it's always open every single time. And so sometimes immediately, like, the baby was born and that and before the placenta even came out, I'd be looking because the mom doesn't feel it, and I'd be looking and throwing stitches in to see if I could get it done real quick before the placenta even came out. Right? So this prevalence of hearing about our mothers, our sisters, our friends who all have sutures, just because they received sutures doesn't mean they needed sutures. And I had the experience myself of having sutures, and causing this, like, inflammatory reaction in my body to spit all these things out and that to really stay open. And, actually, ultimately, after I had all my children, I did go in and get that repaired. And I had to, I chose to get a repair later because of how bad that had been with the suture material at the time. So yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, hopefully, people that listen to this podcast already have those dots connected for them. Like, if you're having a medicalized birth where you're laying, you're numb, you're on your back, directed pushing on drugs, it is, incredibly likely that you are going to really, I would use the word, like, rip, you know, not to mention that all of the medical hands that are stretching you, that are inside of inside of you. I mean, it's so violent, and it's so, and then, obviously, people do episiotomies and actually cut the perineum, and and then that, you know, rips as well. So we're we really kinda have to talk about tearing in these two separate paradigms because
Speaker 3
I was gonna say because you said, oh, in a medicalized birth with an epidural on your back. I no. No. No. I had home births though with a more medicalized midwife who still did directed pushing. Kind of get your knees back. So you don't even have to be in the hospital. It's just medicalized pushing. Directed pushing, purple pushing, thinking that you even have to push rather than waiting for your body.
Speaker 2
Well, sutures are happening on a spectrum in the medical under under the purview of medical, providers. Right? So medical midwives suture even in a normal, closer to the mark of a physiological birth. Not all medical midwives will insist on directed pushing every time. But but as far as I've ever tracked, almost all of them do routine suturing. And so, of course, everything exists on a spectrum, but there's two separate paradigms, you know, around around tearing versus forced violent, you know, ripping that, like we already said, I just wanna say again, it is my observation as well as Yolanda's, and we both attended, you know, many births in the sovereign birth paradigm. And we've also tracked thousands and thousands of birth stories. Right? And never have I ever seen a physiological tear that didn't heal. Does the does the Yoni change? Of course. Of course. Yes. As as things do and as our bodies do, but actually require, surgery to bring, you know, everything back together. No. I don't I don't I mean, of course, I could be wrong. Like, it might exist, but I've never seen it. It it can take way longer than you want, which opens up a different conversation we don't necessarily have to get into. But, you know, I had a really bad tear with my first birth, and it didn't even start to feel like it was really healing in a way that I could really grasp until seven weeks. Right? Like, okay. That's actually normal. But, anyway, so suturing and tearing don't necessarily have to go together. They do go together in the medical paradigm. But anyway, what else do we wanna say about tearing as it relates to, like, postpartum healing and the postpartum pelvis?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So there's a lot of great, hips for helping tears heal. And one of the things that I wanted to say that I think is really interesting that I hadn't come across this until I was really researching to pull some of this together for my course. But the pelvic floor muscles, you know, when I was looking at them to get the good diagram diagrams and all that I put in my, in my course, they are really, really well studied by physiologists. Physiologists are fascinated with the pelvic floor muscles. It's called the levator ani muscles because compared to any other muscle in the body, they have been shown to stretch without damage and repair without damage. And so they're interested in these muscle fibers and how they are. And so there was actually, I geeked out on that and went down this rabbit hole, like reading all about the muscle fibers and how they work. But how interesting that like muscle physiologists, are. And so it's it, for me, it was so amazing to read that. And for the stretch to come back in the studies where they've ultrasounded women's stuff and looked at all that it's. Eight weeks for the beginning, but really up to six months. So realize that too, but the takeaway is they have been shown to stretch further without tearing and to repair themselves without damage was the study is used. Duh. Yeah. And so, of course, like if if any muscle in our body was gonna be made to do it, it'd be that one, but there's actually sort of the research behind it to figure it out.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, it's also just logic. Like, a deer a deer is not gonna walk around with some, like, giant irreparable tear. It just doesn't it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, the course that that you've put out will go into quite a bit of depth around tearing. And if you find yourself with tearing in a physiological way, what to do? Anything else you wanna drop about it before we shift to diastasis?
Speaker 3
Oh, I you know, not without I go a lot into it in the course. Human herbs and and and postures and ways to take care of the, body and all that. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But I think at least for every Yeah. Of this episode, I wanna say physiological tearing is okay. It's not anything to be afraid of. It's all designed to heal. It's quite, it's actually quite an important part of the postpartum process, I think, to contend with the changing of of your yoni and and then experience the healing. There's something in that for women who choose, you know, to heal and to not be sutured and to have physiological births. I found a lot of, surprising embodiment available for me in realizing I can heal and that I did heal and that I could even feel better on the other side than I did before. And it just is the total counternarrative to, oh, thank god you had a c section. Thank god your your pussy didn't have to go through that. Like, all this disgusting, misogynistic, mistruths. It's just not true.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And Emilee, what you just said about feeling better on the other side, I hear that in my practice Mhmm. Women doing holistic pelvic care with women. You don't hear about you're exactly right. You don't hear about that as much, but I have heard many, many women. And I love that word embodiment and the healing and how, yeah, they love their like Yonis afterwards. And that's yes. Women that have torn and women where it doesn't, you know, look in the mirror the same or whatever. They, they love it. And,
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. There's just there's so much depth. There's so much misogynistic depth to untangle around why we think our yoni should never change, why they should look like the maiden version of us, why you know, it's it's it's a it's quite the the rabbit hole of self exploration should you choose to try it on. And if you are someone who is in recovery mode from birth trauma, you know, birth violence, you know, needles threading your perineum, it's also healable. And I also want you to heal that to hear that that it that doesn't mean that there isn't any coming back. And there there's a lot of cool stuff, you know, to say about it where, you know, I've been with women who who will, be sutured in a previous birth, and then their premium will will reopen sometimes, not always, but will retear at the same point where they were sutured, in a in a physiological birth, and then we'll heal it in a very real way, and it will actually become more intact. There's that midwifery adage of of, like I'm gonna mess it up, but it's like, you know, rest in bed and the walls will find each other.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Something like that.
Speaker 3
It's the, I go into this a lot in the course, the actual physiology of our pelvic floor muscles and how they overlay and they weave back and forth like a nest. And so when they find that reweaving together, it's strong. Yeah. Really strong.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. Okay. So diastasis. Oh my goodness. You know, I think, like you said, it's in some ways not that big of a deal. It is so healable. Really. Even if yours is jacked up, it is so healable. I have literally, before my eyes, watched women, do the exercises and really commit to again, I really just this word embodiment has been coming up so much for me lately. It's like, isn't that what this is? You know, to to choose ourselves, to choose the health of our body, and to actualize the path of healing. So what what should you say about diastasis?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So if we hit Rebecca, I'm like such the good example on all of these things because I did. So I had, you know, the kids, and I never I never ever, thought about healing it at all. I just didn't. And I didn't I wasn't directing you, but it wasn't mentioned or any of that. And so by the time I had my my five children, I had a six finger. So six finger spread. So all five of the fingers from one hand plus another one could go in there. And I didn't even really understand how to engage my core. And so I just started working with some really great, and actually who I first learned about healing diastasis with was a PT that, I be be became friends with from that holistic pelvic care course, like back to that one course where she first told me about, diaphragmatic breathing and pelvic floor breathing and abdominal breathing, like, just setting the breath right and how much that that helps. And then that started the journey with that. And I I don't have one anymore. Like I don't have one and I cared for one, for ten years. And so it's all, Yeah, that's it. It's all healable. And, our bodies are meant to do this. Mhmm. And also, if you are going, like, the the obese aren't gonna be able to tell you. I was an OB and I wasn't able to tell you.
Speaker 2
Obviously, do not recommend.
Speaker 3
And so if you go to them, they're going to say surgery.
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3
I did have, actually, a surgeon friend say that she would be willing to do, like, umbilical hernia and and stitch my muscles together. Oh. So I didn't do
Speaker 2
it much. Yeah. I know she's so casually. So weird. It's so what is the word? Like, sick.
Speaker 3
It's happening all all it's happening all the time. And the other thing is that's really taken off, is labiaplasty and plastic surgery for vaginas. It's Yeah. Wild how common it is. And it used to be, like, oh, just big cities and porn stars. And now it's, like, there's multiple people that do it. And, you know, some plastic surgeons in my it used to be no one from Louisville, Kentucky. Plastic surgeons that are not even g y n's, in my town who do, like, tummy tucks and chin lifts and, will also do labiaplasty, which is insanity. But when you asked me about my personal disconnect, like, the the disconnect in general, like, from women to be that disconnected, to not even understand what real yonis look like.
Speaker 2
I'm so sad.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. It is. It is.
Speaker 2
And just to hate yourself so much. Mhmm. And to be so yeah. I mean, you can only be disembodied if you're gonna, like, augment yourself in that way for, like, the public approval or whatever. But it's
Speaker 0
so sad and it's
Speaker 2
It's sad.
Speaker 3
It's feeling broken when you're not broken. And, yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Yeah, man. And and also, you know, for women who haven't yet birthed, you can prevent diastasis quite easily. You know, there isn't none of this stuff is like a sentence. Like having a baby and and going through birth doesn't equal prolapse and diastasis and and all of this stuff. You know, I've I've never had diastasis. I've I've had two babies, and, you know, I know that I'm nourished. I know that I rest. I know that I'm not self sabotaging myself in early postpartum. I also am obviously enormously privileged to allow to have, like, been able to create an environment in which I can be self healing and self protective. You know, it's been really my highest priority since I was, you know, in my twenties. So I've worked really hard to create, postpartums where my body can heal. You know? And and I know that some women feel very victimized by their lives and that that's not on the table for them. And I would challenge that a little bit because you don't need to pick up your forty pound toddler on day five. You don't need to. You don't need to move your mattress. You know, like the stories I hear. It's like, come on, girl. Just just give yourself some some time to heal and know that you will, and and then we don't have to do all of this after the fact corrective.
Speaker 3
And Right. Yeah. Right. So there is. There's so much preventative stuff with how you move during pregnancy. That would be great. Another course of our job. And then how, to take care of yourself postpartum. But in my case where I didn't do any of that and just Yeah. Like, fully sort of betraying my body in so far as that again and again and again and getting the stuff in that became inflamed and made it all work. Like, all of the things. Even with all of that, I am whole and healthy and, you know, fit at fifty. You know? Yeah. You're not fifty, are you?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Are you really? Love that. Yeah. Yolanda has dealt with prolapse with a number of her children, and it's gotten pretty dramatic. And she has healed it every time, and it's so cool. It's so cool to see that. So let's talk about prolapse. So, you know, first of all, if you're two weeks postpartum, please don't diagnose yourself with prolapse. My friend, my darling, just relax. It's okay. This is not for you. This is for, someone much, much, much more postpartum. There are further into their postpartum window, I mean, because we see that. Right? We see it in
Speaker 3
the memory. Totally. I've had people drive into my office and, you know, carry in their newborns in the car seat when they need to be in bed. Worried about having prolapse. And those muscles are meant to stretch and open, and that opening stays open so that the uterus can shrink and move back up. And if you start, like yeah.
Speaker 2
So our point is that, yeah, actually, there is there is some physiological prolapse in the beginning. It's okay. Get back in bed. Do not do not get in the car and go see somebody. That's that's the opposite. It's really I mean, do whatever you want ultimately and just calm down. And we're really talking when we talk about prolapse, we're talking about, like, you know, really chronic issue that that did not do the physiological healing process that you are designed to do. So what do you have to say about it?
Speaker 3
I have to say that the two things that help the most are probably surprising to many, but it's posture and breath and how you b breathe. And, that's super foundational. And both of those, I talk about a lot in the course because you can start to work on the gentle breath and the the entrainment of your breath while you're laying in bed properly. Mhmm. Ideally resting. So those were the two things that were, for me, kind of the hardest
Speaker 2
to breath. Can you explain it? Let's do it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's well, it's diet it's like diaphragmatic breathing, it's called. So that, most of the time when we're breathing, we're only breathing up here on the top part. And so if we actually breathe to where we're expanding the lower part, you know, our diaphragm naturally drops down and our pelvic floor diaphragm drops down in the same. And then when we exhale, then our diaphragm comes up and our pelvic floor comes up. And so there's many reasons for this, but many women will actually try to pull in their pelvic floor on an inhale instead. And if you're just sitting there at night, you're doing it. When you're breathing at night, it's happening so your body knows how to do it, but it's just working with, working with that. So I have a lot of diagrams and practice and all of that. And then, then, of course, there's pelvic floor exercises that you can learn how to do. They don't need to be done out of the out of the beginning. And sometimes if you're doing them in the beginning, you can make that worse. You can make your prolapse worse by trying to do, pelvic contractions, AKA Kegels, but I hate Kegel because that's named after doctor Kegel and that's stupid. So we're just gonna call them pelvic floor contractions. If you're trying to do them too early, it can actually make it worse or out of balance or not doing them correctly.
Speaker 2
Well, and everyone can bring it up, but, like, we can't, like, drop it down. Yeah. Right? Oh, the sneeze pee. So so that's a form like, that's an that's a symptom of prolapse. Right?
Speaker 3
It's put sometimes sometimes, yes. And sometimes that can be a symptom of muscle weakness or muscle tightness. So that's the tricky thing about the pelvic floor. Yeah. Rollapse, the incontinence, and I discuss all of that in the course. I discuss urinary incontinence. I also discuss fecal incontinence and, like, you know, not being able to hold your gas, and that shocks a lot of people. That is also normal postpartum sometimes for some women, especially women that have had, like, precipitous super fast birth.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And they it gets scary because nobody talks about it. And if you rest, it will heal you know, that heals. But yeah. So I talk about all of those things, but the tricky part is is that sometimes it has to do with the pelvic floor being so tense. This is my pelvic floor and it's up like this, and I go to sneeze, it can't move to do that. And then sometimes it's like it's so weak. It also can't go up to do it. So yeah.
Speaker 2
But there's such a connection between your abdomen and your pelvic floor. Huge.
Speaker 3
Right. Huge. I also had no idea about that. No clue. Like, I had to learn about abdominal muscles because that wasn't in any of my training. You know? Like yeah.
Speaker 2
Why would it be? We're not whole bodies. We're just flawed vaginas spitting out humans.
Speaker 3
Lone silence.
Speaker 2
What a curve. What a learning curve you've been on and just how humbling to walk with with, you know, as you're standing in your profession to to really wake up to how wrecked your body was and then how freaking cool. I mean, you know, you're you're such a good example because I know this to be true with so many women. But if you're just, like, not in the birth world and you just had a baby and you're feeling all messed up or it's your fourth baby, you might not know. This might your mom and your sisters and your friends might all just be living with these, problems. And no one knows that it's even like you ten years later. It is so healable. The body is always orienting towards healing, and we just have to learn the road map.
Speaker 3
I just had a woman who consulted with me last week. She was pregnant, and she said that her mom and her sisters had all told her, that you were just gonna you would never be able to jump on a trampoline again because you would lose your pee and that you would just start leaking once you had a baby. Yeah. And she came in for, like, a check. Like, is that right? Mhmm. And I'm like, no. That's not right. But that's what she was being told in her family. And so she was kind of coming in beforehand, you know, looking for, looking for help for that. And, how many women on the other hand hear that and is like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
I just think after I have a baby. That's just what happens.
Speaker 2
Postpartum just means you'll be depressed and fucked up. It's just that's just where we're at. Yeah. Come on. So I also just wanna say about this course that if you're a birth worker, it's also, like, like, stupidly important that you understand all of this because you're going to be the one that women ask these kind of questions that Rebecca just, you know, referenced. You're gonna be the one that helps dispel these myths, and it's it's absolutely imperative that you have, a clear grasp on at least the basics because this is here. Like, this is going to show up in your birth work as it has already if you're already on the path. And so, you know, Rebecca teaches this course in such a way that's, like, very easy to digest, and you can, add this to your toolbox. And I would really say whether it's this course or somewhere else, you need to you need to know it. It's it's not, like, your your knowledge base is incomplete without this. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. Alright. Well, anything else you wanna wrap us up with?
Speaker 3
No. I think that's it. And I think, you know, like, the very first bit, my blurb on my web page is, like, you are not broken. And I think that's the because and the reason it is that, and I put that right away on my web page, was because that's what women come to me. They come to me like I'm broken. And as you just heard today, I personally experienced that. Like, oh, I'm I'm broken, and I need I was just so entrenched in the medical paradigm that I thought to fix it that I needed to have my
Speaker 0
wound out.
Speaker 3
Thank goodness.
Speaker 2
God.
Speaker 3
Thank goodness.
Speaker 2
Heartbreaking. Yeah. Hopefully, this episode goes far and wide and interrupts some of that patterning for some of our listeners.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thanks.
Speaker 2
Alright. Well, you can go buy it today. We are celebrating. It is called your postpartum pelvis with Rebecca Cohen. Go learn and heal and tell us what you think. I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
