Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I let my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative. We'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your
Speaker 0
host, Emilee Saldaya. It's been a while feeding child since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Hello. Hello, women. I'm happy to be here with you again this week. Today, I have my friend Amy on the show. She's a Radical Birthkeeper graduate and presented her goddess workshop at Matriarch Rising Festival last year and will be coming back again this summer. So really stoked about that. She recently free birthed her third son after some pretty classic and painful midwifery sabotage. Before we get started, let's see what is there to catch you up on. We are in our last month officially for enrolling for the midwife within retreat. It's getting close to full, which is so exciting. It may be hard to think about springtime at this point. But if you're wanting to come, don't wait any longer. I'm only registering through the end of this month, and what a fun thing to have this on your calendar to look forward to all winter long. Elder midwife sister Morningstar is offering all of her heart, her genius in this five day retreat here on my land. It's an all inclusive retreat. You just have to get to the Atlanta airport, and we will do the rest. Go to matriarch rising festival dot com slash midwife within and grab one of our last spots. And if you haven't seen yet, we just launched another incredible course with Sparrow Harrington, who has been on the show a few times. It's an infant massage course, and it's really, really good. If your birth didn't go the way you had hoped, if you're feeling some lingering trauma or disconnect from baby, consider grabbing this course and learning a simple flow routine just ten minutes a day to create some real presence with your baby, to connect and communicate through healthy intentional touch. I love infant massage. It's so easy, but so impactful. I really just can't recommend it enough. You can go to free birth society dot com slash infant massage to learn more. What else? We're still accepting work trade applications for the festival. If you want to come be a part of the production side of things, it's super fun, and you can apply for that at matriarch rising festival dot com. And this is the month we begin to gear up for the Blood Mysteries School, which will open enrollment in January and will begin in February. We've got a really amazing three part series we're cooking up for you. It's totally free. It's called The Initiated Woman. So make sure your name is on my newsletter to learn more. You can find that opt in below in the show notes. Alright. Back to my girlfriend, Amy. She tells us how she went from a bible thumping young bride to plant medicine hippie, meeting her new man, and opening up to motherhood. Amy weaves her three birth stories around the deep learnings of how to accept herself, love herself, and really know herself, all coalescing in a full on transformation. It's a really great episode. Enjoy.
Speaker 3
Yay. Season seven with Amy Mackie, soon to be soon to be what did you say? Makira?
Speaker 4
Makia. I don't know. We're looking at other last names because we want we were thinking it might be nice for our family to do what your family did and give us all, a really wonderful, energetic, fresh start.
Speaker 3
Well, until our children just don't stick with it. Like, I realized that the other day to my kid, I was like, you have to stay with Soldea forever. Like, this was such a big deal that we changed our names. You have to keep it. Like, I hadn't really considered that part. I thought, like, oh, we're gonna start this lineage, and it's gonna be so amazing. We're just, like, fresh start lineage. It's like, yeah. Actually, Actually, this might end in one go.
Speaker 4
I knew this. This might be the final generation, the first and the last.
Speaker 3
The first and the last. Oh, that would be so annoying. I also told her the other day that, because she's still young enough that you can just, like, lie. I told her that, I have to approve whoever she wants to marry, that, like, that's actually how it works, That there's no other way. And she was like, yeah. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Wow. What
Speaker 3
what lies do you tell your kids?
Speaker 4
The other day, what did I say? And I was like, that's just why I tell all my coaching clients to never ever let themselves say that's just how it is. And I think it was like something to do with waiting in line or traffic or they were talking about red lights. And I think like, can't we just go? And I was like, no. We have to sit here until the light changes. It's just how it is. And I was like, oh, crap. I technically could go.
Speaker 3
I That's yeah. That's true.
Speaker 4
Nobody's coming. No one is coming. I could just turn right now, but I'm not going to. It's
Speaker 3
true that it's a choice. I don't know if that's a lie though. A lie is like, you know Straight up. Mean like the ice cream is definitely gone.
Speaker 4
I guess I mean, we were pretty brutally honest for a on a lot of things, and we also really admit our bias. Like, I love that that was something that, because we're just getting right into it, that you go over a lot in radical birth keeper school is saying, okay, I'm totally biased about this. And I told them that the other day because our neighbor's kids, my husband calls them, normies, which is really sad. He's like, they're I
Speaker 3
call them muggles.
Speaker 4
Yeah. They're just they're mainstream American standard diet, all of it. And, their youngest son loves ice cream cones, and he's always trying to play ice cream shop and teach my kids about ice cream flavors, and my kids have only ever had our, like, nice cream or, like, the fake stuff that we make with our little machine maker that does it. And, like, it has, you know, just, like, the fruit. It's basically sorbet. And so they're like, oh, yeah. Like, we can have ice cream. And what's this part that he's drawing, though? And it's a cone. I'm like, oh, yeah. Because we always eat ice cream in the bowls.
Speaker 3
They don't even know what that is. They don't even know what a cone is. Tell me your oldest is, like, fifteen.
Speaker 4
He's about to turn seven. So he's, like, what is this part? I'm, like, some people eat that. He's, like, the paper?
Speaker 3
That's funny. Doesn't even know what a cone is. No. Child abuse, Amy.
Speaker 4
Yeah. They're just they're very we can call it sheltered. They're they live in a very
Speaker 3
sheltered. I
Speaker 4
Crunchy oatmeal universe, except they don't eat oatmeal because we don't eat grains.
Speaker 3
No. Of course not. Of course not. It's crunchy but grain free.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Grain free crunch.
Speaker 3
I was going off about sheltering my kids the other day, like, I'm all about that. I didn't know that I would ever resonate with that, like, term, but I'm like, I would like to shelter them for as long as humanly possible.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Keep them very, precious and innocent and, unaware of the horrors of the world. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Speaker 3
Cone free, grain free. So wait, your whole family is grain free, even your kids?
Speaker 4
Mhmm. The once in a so the only time they really eat it is when we go to sushi. They'll have rice. Mhmm. Husband is obsessed with this organic, non GMO, bougie popcorn. And my older one kind of likes it, but not that much. And my younger one's like, what is this? It turns into, like, weird stuff in my mouth. I don't want it.
Speaker 3
So Interesting. Okay. Well, I know we're here to talk about your free birth, but before we do that, can you talk more about a grain free family? Because I guess I'm at a place with my daughter. Like, my first thought is, like, I can't do that with her. Like, almost like she's ruined. Oh, no. Well, because, like, obviously, now she's five and a half, and she only wants, you know, the quesadilla, the oatmeal.
Speaker 4
The delicious.
Speaker 3
I know that Johnny and I do best when we're minimal grain. Like, I know all the reasons for it, but, like, how do you actually pull that off? I guess you just decide to do it.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So when What do they eat? When they were really young, I would give them a little bit, because I wasn't even in that place yet. So twenty nineteen, twenty twenty is when we made the shift. And they're so that was almost four years ago now. And so they're young enough that they're, like Yeah. Didn't integrate it fully. And, well, today that we're recording is Lunasag Lamas, which is the bread holiday of the pagan wheel of the year. And they're like, it's bread day. I was like, yeah, I'm making pumpkin bread. And to them, bread is this weird, like, keto almond flour alternative. So it's not like they don't get bread. And when I make rice, it's cauliflower rice. And I do it it's a it's kind of a fun science experiment to explain to them how we get the bread to rise because it requires an acid and a base. And so we use a little bit of baking soda with some vinegar. And just like the volcano bubbles, when it's in the oven, it's cooking, it makes bread go up. And their main staples are things like grass fed, pastries, sausage, hot dogs, and patties, and that kind of thing. And if they're like, I want a hamburger sandwich. And in our house, that means lettuce, hamburger, avocado, lettuce. Mhmm. And that's it. And so they're just that's the world that they've grown up in. And a lot of the kids in our homeschool co op, because we have a couple families that have all banded together to meet a couple times a week. Cool. They're almost exactly the same. There's only a few families who, have grain on a regular basis, and there's only a few families who aren't, on the exact same page with, like, organic, gluten free, all of that. And there's, like, two who were kind of a little bit more, open to what they
Speaker 3
So with the with the three year old, he was three when you shifted. Right? Because he's seven now?
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So he was eating, like, a normal kid range of grain, and then you just, like, cut them? Like, what was that transition like?
Speaker 4
No. It was more like a special treat. So say we go to the farmer's market, and there was fresh baked bread from the local bakery that was organic and ancient grain and all the things. So he might get a slice of bread with butter on it. And then he would only want the butter. And I was like, oh, this kid wants to be keto. So I would just give him just a slice of butter, and he didn't need the bread anymore. The same thing with rice. When I switched it, to cauliflower rice, I would steam the cauliflower rice, kinda like white rice, and I would just put ghee on it. And he was totally satisfied. And I feel like there there's a cookbook that's really hard to get in the United States, and it's even harder to get in Australia now where it's from because they've tried to ban it, that Pete Evans helped support. And it's called Bubba Yum Yum, which sounds ridiculous. But it's a mom who figured out how to get her kid to eat paleo, basically, and what that looks like and all of these amazing recipes that are, like, avocado mash and, it has, like, liver pate, but in a way that is digestible. I don't know. It's very And doable.
Speaker 3
What has been, like, the result of that if you were to kinda summarize the last four years of making this nutritional change? Like, what yeah. What's that like? Like, inspire me.
Speaker 4
The biggest one is my oldest son had really bad eczema, and it went away. Mhmm. He had, like, some weird indigestion stuff too, and that went away. My younger son is still doing, like, some interesting things with it because he's what we would typically call a picky eater. I'm looking into all the g and m things of, like, why he's resisting all the food. And for the most part, they're the most chill kids. People will see them when we're out and about, and they're like, wow. They're so calm. Yeah. Because they don't really get a lot of sugar. And Mhmm. They don't get a lot of caffeine, and they don't get all the the stimulants. And, their systems are able to regulate really quickly.
Speaker 3
Properly digesting.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And they've got really good consistent bowel movements. They've got, really high levels of energy when they need it. So if they're, like, in a soccer game or if they're playing baseball with friends, like, they can turn it on real fast, the athleticism, but they can also sit down and listen to a book be read and not be, like, antsy. Mhmm. And they're insanely intelligent. They love brain teaser stuff. And from everything that I've read, the cholesterol that's in fats is what fuels the brain's ability to do all of that. So I feel like my intention is to give them the best start on that level, but also I've really, relaxed around some of those structures before I used to be, like, a little bit paranoid about it. Like, oh my god. Oh, no. This is have green in it. And now I'm, like, okay. We're at a birthday party. You are welcome to eat this. If you like it, you're welcome to finish it because this is a special occasion. If you don't like it, I have snacks for you in my bag. And most of the time they will eat other kids' birthday cake and they're like, what is this? Tastes like weird. What's happening? My mouth is like on fire. Yeah, that's real sugar. You want it? It's okay. You can have it if you want it.
Speaker 3
And make sugar
Speaker 4
yeah exactly and so we have this recipe that we pass around the homeschool coop for all the birthdays whenever we have birthday parties for each other and it's this almond flour cake or you can do hazelnut flour for the kids that are allergic to almond and it tastes like heaven to me. It's like devil's food cake because it's so rich.
Speaker 3
Well, it's like the the what do they call it? The eighty twenty rule, like, be eighty percent clean and, you know, then when you're out in the world, relax.
Speaker 4
Like Yeah. Like when we travel there's there's not a whole lot of options all the time. And, yeah, we bring all the snacks in the world. And we have been really blessed to find a lot of cool restaurants along the way. Like, we were in, I don't know, It was Moab, Utah. Like, oh, we're not gonna find anything here. Like, mom might just fast for a little while, and you guys eat what you want. And we found a grass fed, pasture raised pho restaurant that made, like, sweet potato pho noodles. So it was, like, entirely paleo, grain free options. And I was sitting there, like, downing the bone broth thinking, oh my god. This is heaven. I'm at a restaurant. I don't have to cook and clean today. And I think I'm call like, calling it in.
Speaker 3
Why would you say I guess I'll just say it bluntly. Like, why would you say like, why are you so strict about it?
Speaker 4
I started on my I guess I call it, like, health journey
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
When my second grandparent passed away from Alzheimer's. I watched, two grandfathers passed away from Alzheimer's, grandmother passed away from Parkinson's, And my other grandmother who's still alive is basically on OxyContin all the time because of the pain levels in her body. And they've gotten her down off of it, but then they gave her morphine. I was like, I don't know how this is. And cortisone shots every single week. It's really intense. And then my in laws are also kind of in a state of deteriorating health.
Speaker 3
Okay.
Speaker 4
And looking at what they were eating and then what I was eating and listening to stories of relatives who also went down that rabbit hole. And then watching my own mother, who doesn't always, she's she's getting a little bit better. She sent me a text of, like, zucchini stir fry, and I was like, yay. Finally, vegetables. But for the longest time, she didn't even eat anything green. So, watching my family, and their health deteriorate that way, I really wanted to extend my life expectancy, minimize the amount of potential for genetic disorders and cancers, and offer my kids that same opportunity to not have to worry. Like, am I gonna get this, that, or the other thing when I'm older because of the lifestyle I'm leading? And Yeah. Yeah, there are people who are ninety five and drink whiskey and smoke cigars every single day.
Speaker 3
There's no way they feel good, though. No.
Speaker 4
Like, why would
Speaker 3
switch on the table.
Speaker 4
So so many people argue that. I'm like, okay. Great. That's fun for them. That's, like, one in a million people.
Speaker 3
Right. Come on. Like, it's it's we live in a well, you don't, but I will definitely include myself in what I'm about to say. We live in this cloud of cognitive dissonance of the way we act now. And and, obviously, there's such an unwillingness to connect the dots of how it shows up in our elder elderly community. Yeah. I'm with you. Okay, good. I needed you to just like, say it to inspire me because our family's like right on the verge of really, really claiming our health in a new, like, within in a new layer. You know? Of course, like, we've always been doing it in layers, but, yeah, that was helpful. Good.
Speaker 4
I'm glad. And it always has to be internal. I realized that, like Yeah. I went from being a bible thumping child, because I was raised in a fundamentalist evangelical household, to a, health thumping where I'd take, like, whatever book was. You can't eat that. That's horrible for you. I'd just be, like, yelling at all my friends, and they're they hated me, and they didn't wanna hang out with me. And When did you get fun? Probably last year. I think it's been very, very recent
Speaker 3
that You're new to fun. Got it.
Speaker 4
Mellowed where I'm like, oh, you're enjoying a cocktail. Good for you. Rather than, like Interesting. Me right now.
Speaker 3
That's a strong persona I would like to interview someday.
Speaker 4
Oh, yeah. She could she can come out hard. It would be fun to take her to dinner the way you've described where you have the persona outing. Mhmm. The things that would come out of my mouth, like judgment card in the tarot.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Seriously. Okay. So you're new to fun, super healthy, inspiring me. So okay. Let's let's just tie this into what we're here to talk about, which is really all your birth stories. Right? And then, of course, your newest little sweetie. So take us take us to wherever you want, wherever it begins with this first son of yours.
Speaker 4
Well, my my I'll say my kids' names so as I start referencing them, it's easier. So my oldest is Blue, my second is Quest, my third is Apollo, and they're all boys. And my, I'm on my second marriage, and I would like to keep this one for a very long time. My first marriage, I was really, really young, and I recognized that maybe it wasn't the right choice when I realized I didn't want kids with him. And it was like that click of I was watching the business of being born on Netflix by myself in our house and, where were we at the time? It's right between Burbank and the four zero five. I
Speaker 3
love people who aren't gonna watch this on video.
Speaker 4
You see, like okay. There it is. You can walk to Trader Joe's from, like, a Like
Speaker 3
Sherman Oaks?
Speaker 4
Yes. Sherman Oaks. Okay. But, like, on the edge. Studio City. Next to Studio. So it's between Sherman Oaks and Studio City on Riverside, little tiny apartment. And I was watching the business being born. And I was like, oh my god. I I want a kid. And if I ever have kids, I wanna do it like this. I wanna have it at home, maybe in the water. Oh, water birth would be amazing. And then I thought of my husband at the time, and was like, oh, I don't want him to be a dad. Oh, god. Oh, no. I'm not. I did. I made a mistake.
Speaker 5
Oh, my god.
Speaker 4
It was just, like, in this, like and a lot of cognitive dissonance. I love that you brought up that word because that was what was happening. And for three years, I wrote it out.
Speaker 3
Been there.
Speaker 4
And I drank a lot of alcohol in that time, which is why I have no judgment for people who drink alcohol because that's where I was at. That was my coping mechanism and my Band Aid, and it was effective until it wasn't. And I was there was a moment where I was literally running through the streets of Edinburgh. I was there for the French festival with a company of actors and people. And I woke up the next morning. They're like, Amy, do you know what you're saying last night? I was like, after which drink? You were literally running through the screen, screaming. I want a divorce.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. Well, thank unless you're gonna tell me something different. Thank god you didn't have kids with them.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And at and it was interesting because it was that same year that I got off birth control, that I had that recognition. And what we're all finding out now about birth control shifting how we choose our mates and choose our partners, I had been on birth control, from, like, the second week that he and I were together when we were young, young teenagers. So as we became adults, which I don't think we were fully adults until way after we got divorced. But as we were going through that process, I was on birth control that whole time. And then pretty soon after the wedding, I was like, okay. I'm done. No birth control. No tampons. No anything toxic in my body. And I went on, like, a massive purge throughout the house. I only allowed doctor Bronner's baking soda and vinegar. It's It's just like crazy. And at the same time, I realized this isn't the relationship for me. And so I was really, really careful about not getting pregnant, and that's when I started learning about fertility awareness methods and, getting in touch with my body, getting in touch with my womb. So I was doing all of that work and not wanting to be with him. Finally got divorced, had an amazing year of Burning Man and Ayahuasca ceremonies and mushroom trips and all the things, and had multiple visions of this child coming to me. And it was always this bright blue spirit. And I asked the first time I saw him, like, who are you? And in the vision, the spirit said, I'm your son. I was like, when are you coming? He goes, not with that guy. I was like, oh, so this boyfriend is a he was like, no. No. No. Same with the past one. I was like, oh, crap. Okay. So as I worked through relationships and through being celibate and single, because I did that for a stretch, I recognized, okay, there's this soul who wants to come through me. And when this soul tells me it's time, then I'll know it's confirmation. It's the person I'm supposed to be with. And fast forward two years later, when I met Anton, he came and sat in ceremony with me. That was one of my stipulations because he never had. I was like, okay. If you can't go down this kind of deep experience with me, I don't know if I can be in a relationship long term with you. So we were sitting in ceremony together, and blue spirit shows up. It's like, hi. Good to see you again. And he's like, okay. I'm coming. Gwen. Because now. Like like, right right now? Right now? He's like, yeah. Okay. Cool. Cool confirmation. This is wonderful. And Anton was getting all the same sorts of beautiful visions of, like, yes. This is it. Yes. This is the one.
Speaker 3
How long have you been dating Anton before the ceremony?
Speaker 4
So we met November fifteenth. The ceremony was the first week of December.
Speaker 3
Oh, fresh. We were
Speaker 4
pregnant on Christmas.
Speaker 3
Okay. So I also was wondering when did you when in this story line did you put down the bible thumping?
Speaker 4
That happened with the first marriage.
Speaker 3
Okay.
Speaker 4
So during the first marriage, we, like, I got baptized again. I've been baptized twice, so I feel like it just really didn't stick. And we went back to church really intensely to try and save the marriage for a little while. And then when that didn't do the thing that we expected it to do, I started exploring all sorts of spirituality and, everything from yoga to Buddhism to witchcraft, all of it. So, by the time I met Anton, I was pretty pretty eclectic, but pretty devout. I was doing yoga and meditating every morning. I was chanting, all of those things and doing full moon rituals and you name it. So I had solidified a different kind of spirituality at the time I met him. And so, yeah, we were pregnant by Christmas because I remember the night we conceived, there was a skylight in the bathroom and I got up to go pee afterwards and I looked up at the shining through, and I thought, oh, I'm pregnant. And it was just this instant knowing. I didn't tell him because I was like, oh, man. We just got together. How is he gonna handle this? But it's happening now because he was totally open to having kids, and he said that the second day that I knew him. However, when it becomes a reality, it's it's totally different. So I waited until I knew that the pee stick would show that I was pregnant to show him. And he did flip out for a little bit at first, but then he was totally on board until I said, I want a home birth. He was like, that's not safe. I was like, yes. It is. It's safer. Here, watch this documentary. And, got him on board enough that we were interviewing a midwife. And I was like, no ultrasounds. Ultrasounds are evil. And Anton was like, I need to know the sex of the baby, because I'm panicking. I'm a first time dad, and I don't know how to connect to this child if I can't talk to it and like know that it's either a boy or a girl. He was convinced it was a girl because some psychic Yeah.
Speaker 3
You should've just sent him back for some more Ayahuasca.
Speaker 4
I know and I this is always like hindsight right And I was, like, it's a boy. It's a boy. So we were that was part of it. He was convinced it was a girl. I was convinced it was a boy. And the midwife said, oh, well, there's a test that we can do where they just look to see you in your blood work, whether it's a girl or a boy. And and Tom was like, please, are you can you consider that? I was like, alright. Just take a little drop of blood. It's fine. Well, the midwife actually ran a full genetic panel without telling me. And two weeks later, she called in tears. And and then she's a CPM too, not even a CPM.
Speaker 3
Oh, my god.
Speaker 4
And she was like, oh, my god. I need to meet you in person. I can't tell you over the phone. I was like, you can't tell me if it's a boy or a girl over the phone? I was twelve weeks pregnant at this point. And she said, no. You have to see me in person. And I was like, oh, can can you just tell me if it's a boy or girl? And she's like, it's a girl,
Speaker 3
but she's going to die. And I was like,
Speaker 4
what? So dramatic. What? Oh, yeah, Emilee. This is
Speaker 3
It's a girl, and she's going to die? Trial by fire. Oh my god.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So she says you have to come to the hospital to meet me for me to tell you this because my mom is sick in the hospital, and I can't come meet you, but you have to come meet me. So Anton and I both went to the hospital, the last place in the world I wanted to go. And she's sitting there in the big entry room, like, weeping Oh, no. Telling us about how we're gonna lose our baby. And she's holding this paperwork. And so we start crying because that wasn't at all my intuition, wasn't at all, and it's on. Like, how could this be real? This can't be real. So she hands us the paperwork, and she says, if you go to planned parenthood, they won't ask questions. You can just terminate. Oh, my god.
Speaker 3
This is a terrible story.
Speaker 4
It makes the rest of the story so much better. So we we went to a termination specialist to make sure that the baby was fine. And baby was. Of course, they do an ultrasound, and I was like, I don't want it. And they're looking, like, this is a perfectly healthy child. And the termination specialist, who's this doctor whose business is abortions, looked at our paperwork, and he's like, oh my god. I'm so glad you came here. Because if you had gone anywhere else, they wouldn't have looked at this and told you it was wrong. Okay. So he's like, the what you're holding in your hands, this couldn't be possible. It says monosomy thirteen, not trisomy thirteen. So our mid first midwife had said, it's trisomy thirteen. Nobody survives that. The baby won't, like, grow. He's like, no. No. No. Monosomy thirteen. You would have miscarried at, like, week eight and not even known. And I was like, okay. So this test is wrong. He's like, yeah. So there's a red flag here, but it's not because you're gonna lose your baby. And I would love for you guys to go see a genetic specialist, blah blah blah blah. So he, like, wrote the prescription thing. And I was all over the place, first time mom, didn't know I could say no. And You're on the right now. Yeah. I could've just walked out, but I didn't. And so we went to the genetic specialist, and they did amniocentesis. And they actually did it three times because they couldn't get the needle in the right place for the first two. No. It was horrible. It was the worst experience in my life, especially because they have this giant screen TV showing, like, the ultrasound that's live. That's a vaginal ultrasound that's happening live. So I had three people around me, and they pulled out the fluid. And I was just in this horrified state. At week eight or nine, I had felt like I might miscarry, and I couldn't explain it. But I felt like the souls switched. And Anton was like, no. No. No. It's a girl. I was like, no. The girl left. The boy's here. And after the whole genetic specialist thing, we're waiting for the results. It takes about four weeks. So at this point, we're at week, like, eighteen. And we decide to go sit in ceremony again, because I was like, I need to clear this out of my body, all this medical stuff that just happened. I don't wanna experience it again and blah blah blah blah. Anton wanted to clear out, like, the sense that he couldn't protect me from it. He didn't know how to, like, save me from the situation. It's like, it's not your job anyway. It's my authority anyway. So we're sitting there on
Speaker 3
him begging you to do the test was what kicked this whole freaking thing off, but go on.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. I know. But no resentment now because it's taught me to say no to him. Sure. Which is big. And that needed to happen in our relationship. It was brand new because what? We'd only been together three months at that point. Right. So that's another layer to all of this of, like, me saying yes over and over again is because I just didn't know this person yet. And so we're sitting in ceremony. He gets a vision of all the the snakes turning into DNA strands, and a chunk of DNA moving away, and a new blue colored one coming and clicking on. And I throw up, and I feel this sensation of that was what was left of the girl who wasn't going to make it. And now I just have a healthy boy inside of me. And whether it was, the absorbed twin syndrome or something else, the genetic specialist couldn't explain it. But he called us two weeks later and said, it's like there were a bunch of pink Legos, and then eight of them got ripped off, and blue LEGOs came and replaced it. And the test says XX chromosomes. But one of the x's has a y arm, and it's the exact y sequence needed to make a boy. So it weirdly, like, basically solidified the visions that we had had. And he, was a perfectly healthy boy from that point on. And I was right from the beginning of this is a boy, but Anton's intuition of it's a girl the minute we had it, like, kind of it it was really interesting and a play on all of us on how we sat with our spirituality, how we really listened to the messages we were getting, and then what we did with that information and the choices we were making.
Speaker 3
I guess also, like, another way to tell it is just you were right, and the system was wrong.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It was. The system was, like, in this space of needing to test and probe and prove. Whereas if everyone had just listened to me from the get go of I'm pregnant with a boy, then nothing would have happened. Yeah. So we ended up looking for new home birth midwives. And in the state of Arizona, with the type of testing we did, it they don't have scope of practice to take a client with that
Speaker 3
history. Oh, shoot.
Speaker 4
So then we ended up at a birth center, and it was kind of a blessing in disguise for several reasons. The first one, we wouldn't have ever had access to the midwife that we did that was hands off, because she only works in birth centers. She doesn't do home births. And she really trusted me in a way that I don't think a lot of medical midwives always would, where she saw me and she's like, yeah, you got time. And she walked out of the room, and she let me just labor with Anton and the doula who was there. And then when she came back in, she's like, how are you feeling? It's like, I think I'm gonna have the baby soon. She's like, cool. Call me when you're ready. And, like, walked back out again. And she was present when I needed it and not present the rest of the time, which to me is kind of like a almost a unicorn in the system. Because most of the time, they want to do something. And she didn't seem to feel the need to do anything for a first time mom until almost the very end when she was like she did a vaginal check, then she got a mirror. And she's like, okay, Amy. You're the one who's gonna hold him. You're the one who's gonna do this. And I was the first one to touch my son, which is really amazing because that doesn't happen in the system very frequently. And, there were a lot of things that ended up going down. He had lip tie and tongue tie, and then she was latching, and we ended up revising them. And then had a great nursing relationship, but, within six months, we were pregnant again.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. I did not know that. Six months?
Speaker 4
So he was only six months old when Oh. My second son decided to join us. Woah. And so it was like, oh, you thought you were out of the frame, but now you're in the fire. So it was really interesting nursing through pregnancy because I didn't wanna give that up. He wouldn't take donor milk. He didn't do that well with dairy. So I was like, okay. It's just me and solid foods. And as soon as my second son was born, they've he came over and he started drinking on the other side, and then he held his hand. And it was like, oh, this is why They're gonna have this bond that never could have happened if they had been a little further apart. And so I tandem nurse them for two and a half years after that. And they, are best buds. They love it. And I I just was like, okay. This out of out of kind of this intense process. Whoo.
Speaker 3
So that's that's called Irish twins. Right? Fifteen months?
Speaker 4
Fourteen months. Barely fourteen months. Woo hoo. Mhmm. Yeah. So they're they are Irish twins. People keep asking me if they're twins. Our older son's finally an inch taller than our second. So he's like, I'm the oldest, and he's so proud of him. But then most of the time, they're the same. Yeah. It's been interesting. And then so the second time, I thought, oh, this is my redemption birth. Oh, this is my redemption pregnancy. And at the time, I still hadn't heard of free birth society. I still hadn't, heard of free birth. And I was I had been scared in the system because I've been threatened with CPS on several occasions for, refusing to do antibiotics and then them saying, oh, if you go to the if you end up transferring to the hospital and they know that and something happens to the baby, then they're gonna blame you. And then, when I took him in for a newborn check because the birth center required it, his temperature was point one over. And they're like, oh, if you don't go to the ER right now, then we're gonna have to call CVS because it's irresponsible. And and then at the hospital, I asked to co sleep, and they're like, no. That's not safe. So I sat up all night, day one postpartum, holding a newborn, in a chair so that I could hold him and be skin to skin because they wouldn't let me do that. And I had, like, all the monitors trailing.
Speaker 3
So you birthed at the birth center, and then the next day, you brought the baby over to the hospital for a, like, a wellness check?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 3
And they made you stay the night?
Speaker 4
They did they were doing all of the the vitals and his temperature was Oh my god. One over their limit. Yeah. So they they just kept pulling the CPS card. So I was terrified to do things by myself. And I asked my doula, okay. Do you know a home birth midwife that I can trust? And she's like, oh, yeah. I've worked with this woman forever. She's like an old grandma. She's amazing. She's about to retire. You'll be one of her last birds. It'll be fantastic. And then I don't know if you've seen the video that I sent over
Speaker 3
to you guys. Told me about it. It sounds real rough.
Speaker 4
It's it's horrific to watch. Like, I felt sick to my stomach watching what was happening to my body afterwards. God. And, like, to think, like, okay. Integrating my own trauma, how's this happening, where she was it was very, like, a bait and switch the way that you've described other medical midwives where it's sweet and wonderful and nurturing at every visit, and there's so much conversation that happens on the phone and text message. And she came over to the house, and she seemed really great. And then during the birth, she had to do something. She, like, felt like she had to do something, and I was both the first births, I labored a lot on the toilet. I just felt so comfortable there. And both of them, the midwife said, you cannot have the baby on the toilet. So the first birth, she moved me to a birth stool right in front of the toilet. So I felt like I was in the same spot, but there was a birth stool. So the second one, I expected her to do something similar, but we had a really tiny bathroom in the townhome where we lived at the time. And that midwife was overweight, older, not in shape, all the things, and she couldn't quite get in front of me on the floor in that tiny bathroom. So she wanted me out of the bathroom. So she walked me to the bathroom.
Speaker 3
Felt, like like, made up that she should be in front of you.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That she needed to be there to see what was happening. So she said, Amy, you need to move to the bed now. And we moved over, and she told me to lie down on my side. And she had somebody else hold my leg, and somebody else hold my hand, and all the things. And then she started putting her hands inside a lot. And there's one point in the video where her hand is inside me for, like, a minute straight. And she's feeling the baby's head. And she said, okay, Amy. I'm gonna push the baby inside you a little further so we can get a better read on his heart tones. And so she pushed his head back. Oh, my God. This is watching it later. At the time, I'd I'd checked out. I was dissociated, fully dissociated. I wasn't there. And she had to tell me, Amy, grab your baby. At the end, everybody was shouting push. It was wild. Very dramatic and so like the first thing I said was I'm sorry to the baby in the video. It's so sad like I'm so sorry it took so long and everyone's like oh no, honey. And she starts saying, like, yo, sweetie. You did so good. And her voice, it's like trauma bonding. It was really weird, to watch later. And I within the
Speaker 3
I also think it's important to say here for anyone listening, what Amy just described is a completely normal average common medical midwife attended home birth. Like Yeah. That's that is not your story as unacceptable as it is is what everyone expects and accepts. You know? So I just I I I don't want someone listening who doesn't know anything about this world yet to think that your story was, like, a one off because this is this is medical.
Speaker 4
Well, yeah, this this midwife, she was a CNM. She had over twenty years of experience. She, of her hands being in victim's bodies. She was wearing, like, a shirt in the video that said midwives help people out.
Speaker 3
Stop. No. No. It's like a
Speaker 4
caricature idea. And, and she went on and on about how beautiful the birth was and how strong I was and how amazingly easy it was. And in the video, she's physically yanking on my son's neck to pull him out of my body. Oh my god. And that this child, like, out of my three children, he has the most issues with everything being perfect, being on time, being in control. Like, he feels out of control in his life, and I know it was his birth. I know. And we're we're doing a lot of energy work, a lot of different ways of releasing that story so that it's not gonna haunt him the rest of his life. But I can see why so many people in the world today are having issues in adulthood because what were their births like? How were they yanked out of their mother's bodies on various different levels? And we had a chiropractor work on him almost right away, and we did a lot of things to assist him in his transition into humanhood, but it was a really rough beginning. And I didn't realize how how intense it was until, honestly, it was, like, four or five weeks postpartum, and I found Free Birth Society podcast. And I was listening, and I just started balling because I realized, oh my god, I did have a choice. That didn't have to happen, and it just did. And, like, was doing my best not to blame myself. I was like, okay. With this new awareness, what will I choose? With this new awareness, moving forward, if I ever have another child, I know that won't happen again because I can make a different choice. Don't blame myself for past choices. Don't blame my and it was it was a really tough spiral, and I ended up I binge listened to, like, four episodes, and then I just couldn't touch it for a year because it was so heartbreaking that I could have done that for the first two birds, and I didn't.
Speaker 3
That's what I was wondering is what was your sense after the birth? Was there any cognitive like, you said that you checked out. Like, when did you realize that you had checked out? When did was there, like, your animal body knows. Right? Your animal body always knows, but, like, when did you start to connect? And it sounds like maybe it was that. Or did you leave It
Speaker 4
was there were a couple things before where so my my postpartum bleeding with blue slowed down within the first five days, and I was able to start Yoni steaming and doing other things to nourish my body. With Quest, my bleeding went on for two weeks, like, really consistently just, like, heavy period blood. And, I was like, something's off. I feel off. I've got all this weight still. It was like I was patting myself to keep safe. And I was bleeding still so no one would come near me. And I was just I was in this weird little cocoon where something felt wrong. And so I reached out to the midwife. Right? Because she's supposed to be the one who saves me. And I called her, and I was like, I love birth, and I love babies, and I really wanna pick your brain about becoming a midwife because I wanted that for, like, over a year now. And she's like, okay. I'll come over. And she was talking to me, and it just felt wrong the entire conversation. I couldn't put my finger on it, but she was telling me I needed to go to nursing school, and then I needed to get a midwifery master's degree, and then I needed to apprentice for a year and go to a certain number of births. And I needed to do this, and I needed to do that. And I had to make sure I had this licensure and this thing and that. Because otherwise, I would lose privileges at forty weeks, and I wouldn't be able to attend half the births of the women who signed up with me. And something just fell off. And when she left is when I think I found the podcast. So it, like, clicked. On, like, it this point where I realized I wanted to be in birth work because I didn't want what happened to me to happen again. And I wanted to support other women better than what had I had experienced. And it was the combination of those things that led me to finding this podcast and then finding within myself the, no, I'm not gonna do it the way she did. Because all the path that she went on led her to treating me this way. I don't wanna do that. So I don't know if I wanna be a midwife. And I've totally pushed it aside. Like, I had been facilitating Yoni steaming and womb workshops and womb wellness and all these, like, women's health, circles, and I just cut it off that year. I was like, I I can't do this because something's wrong, and I don't know what it is, and I have to find it in myself. So I had to integrate a lot of that trauma. And there was still a lot of that rage left when I got pregnant the third time. And I was talking to my friend who's currently considering RBK school right now. She's a doula in the system, and she wants to come out of the system. And, she really held that sister's face and let me vent about what was done. And she was the first person who was like, yeah, you have every right to still be angry right now. And didn't try to talk me out of it or say, like, oh, well, that's what she's trained to do and, like, soften it or gaslight me at all. It was just like, yeah, be pissed. And so that helped a lot. But definitely the healing came through the third birth in and of itself.
Speaker 3
So then what happens?
Speaker 4
So then I beg my
Speaker 3
when you're you're hearing the podcast and are you like, that's what I'm gonna do?
Speaker 4
The the first few moments that I was listening to it, yes. And then I just shoved it all away. And I was like, okay. I'm not gonna get pregnant next year. I'm gonna be really careful with my fertility awareness mapping. I'm gonna be really mindful about when we're having sex, when we're not. I'm going to be, just working on my business and doing all of the the outer world things and do all the self development things. So I did a lot of I, like, became a life coach. I worked with my mentor, Kevin Walton, in his program of conscious creatorhood and really solidified who I was and what that meant. And I was like, okay. Now that I'm on a whole other level of awareness, and I can accept what I already went through without judging myself for the choices I made. Now I'm ready to have the next baby. And then I started asking my husband, like, okay. When are you ready? You wanna do this? You wanna do this now? He's like, oh my god. Not again. And please, please, please. And for him, there was a lot of fear because this was the end of twenty twenty, beginning of twenty twenty one. And there was still a lot of, you could say, upheaval or, like, social issues happening around us where things weren't secured. He's like, why bring a child in during this time? And I was like, this is the perfect time because we're a stable family, and we have a stable home. And we can provide a really wonderful nourishing space for a new soul to come in and be nurtured and start off life without all the crazy gender ideology and weird propaganda and, like, stuff that's happening. This kid can just grow up as a kid. And that helped shift his mindset around it. I was like, okay. Yeah. Let's let's consciously conceive this time. Let's really intentionally ask for someone who's going to want to be a part of our family, but who's also going to uplevel our whole family through the wonderful energy that they bring. And we were not not trying for a couple months, and my period was a little late. And then it was really, really heavy. And it was, like, an interesting time where I I shouldn't have been bleeding, but I was. And I was like, I think I I miscarried. And the minute that that clicked in my head, my body just gushed blood. Oh, that was a miscarriage. Okay. And I grieved it, and that was in June of twenty twenty two. And I went through a lot of energy work and realized, like, oh, I'm still afraid of the last births. I'm still afraid of the last pregnancies. I'm still afraid of the stem. I'm still afraid of all these things. So I have to commit to not going to any doctors, not going to any midwives, just being me, just trusting my body, just really doing this in a sovereign way. And at the same time, when I was getting that healing work and, nourishing myself after the miscarriage, Anton was stepping into this other kind of sovereignty as a father saying, like, yeah, we are abundant. Yeah. Everything's gonna show up exactly as it needs to. The timing's gonna be perfect. I can trust this. I can trust her. And he turned to me in the beginning of August, and he was just, like, washing dishes one day, and I was working at the kitchen table. And he left over and goes, what do you think about the name Apollo? I love it. Yeah. Let's do it. Like, are you you down? And he's like, yeah. Like, cool, because I'm ovulating. And we just conceived that week. He said, what do you think of the name Apollo? I said yes, and Soul came in. And I knew I was pregnant the moment it happened. And we just kind of let it be for the month of August, but I didn't tell him I was, like, taking a pee stick test every week because I wanted proof before we told the parents. And I came down the stairs one day with, like, Buddy the elf grin. And he's like, it's official, isn't it? I was like, I just like smiling. Smiling's my favorite. And so then we told everyone, like, we're not gonna do the usual wait to the safe zone time. We're just gonna let them all know that we're celebrating that we're pregnant and that we called it in on purpose and that, yes, we want this child. And if I miscarry again, okay. And then we'll mourn publicly too, and that's great. And it was wonderfully free from the get go because of that. There wasn't this, like, secrecy or fear or kind of shame around having more kids when the world was nuts. It was just, no, we're happy, and we're doing this on purpose, and we're excited. Be excited with us. And then questions started coming in. I was like, okay, but who's your midwife? And we fended off the family for a little while. It's like, oh, we're just interviewing or, oh, we're thinking of this one person. And then I said, no. That's out of integrity. We gotta be honest. We gotta tell them. And I told my parents by September, and it didn't click in my dad's head until the week before I gave birth, which is really funny. My dad was like, okay. Great, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's gonna be fine. You're beautiful. And then all of a sudden, the week beforehand, he's like, wait. But why aren't you calling your midwife? I was like, no. No, dad. Remember we talked about this? No. I'm not doing that. And I went through the whole school and I'm a birth keeper and it's great. And he was like, Who's gonna be there for you? What if you die? So it's
Speaker 3
this like
Speaker 4
panic attack. Oh, yeah. Full
Speaker 3
on freak out.
Speaker 4
Yeah, he was crying. And I was like, Oh my gosh. That I'm safe. The baby's safe. I'm healthy. And he's like, okay. I pray for you.
Speaker 3
Well, also but but also, it's like, dad, I was abused and violated in my first two births. Like, that's another
Speaker 4
fully explained to him. I was like, okay. Remember how this happened? Right. Remember how this happened? We're
Speaker 3
avoiding that this time.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So he softened. And then, it took Anton a little bit to, be okay with having literally no one else present. He wanted a babysitter for the older kids to be on call. And I I get that that him as the dad is concerned about being present for me and being present, yeah, for the other kids. And I'm
Speaker 3
just You don't have to be present for the kids. You can literally put a movie on and throw snacks at them. You don't have to be present for everybody.
Speaker 4
Exactly. That's I thought, okay. If it's daytime, they're so happy with PBS kids. It's fine. Yeah. Exactly. So I I was talking to him about it and told him and this was really big for us. And I I wanted to mention it because, yes, watching what the midwife was doing in the second birth was really, horrible to endure. But watching what he was doing was making me go, ew. Stop it. Ew. Stop it. I mean, it wasn't anything bad. He was being super sweet, but he was acting like a cheerleader. He was saying things like, you're doing amazing, honey. You're doing so great. I'm so proud of you. You got this. And it was all what he thought would help.
Speaker 3
Well, it's the energy of the room too. Like Right. That's that's how those births are. Like, he's just matching the energy of the room.
Speaker 4
And so I had to really explicitly tell him, I don't want a cheerleader. Mhmm. I don't want you to speak to me during this unless I ask to be spoken to. I don't want you to, coach at all even though you're a great coach for sports, yoga, and for your life coaching clients. I don't wanna coach. It's me, my body, and my baby, and that's it. And I just want you
Speaker 3
to be present.
Speaker 4
Yeah. He doesn't tell me, like, you're doing great, honey.
Speaker 3
Could you imagine?
Speaker 4
Nice move there. You might wanna go a little to the left next time. God. So, yeah. And it was it was really interesting to work through that. So from the very get go that was his main worry like I remember in August and September talking about this because we were traveling and he was like look see you have your dad helping with the kids and then I can fully focus on you and blah blah blah and I was like no. No. No. That's that's not what this is about. I'm going to probably labor overnight, and then I'll have the baby in the morning. And he's like, you can't predict that. Like, you of all people know that you can't plan birth. And I was like, no. But I'm just gonna I'm gonna hold out for this. I'm gonna just hold on. That is
Speaker 3
all vision. Very, very common.
Speaker 4
Exactly. And I so I just thought to myself, okay. I had the last two babies at night. Chances are that my body will feel safe and calm and start to have labor kick in or sensations kick in, during nighttime because that's usually when the growth process is going on. And so I created this vision for myself. I was watching, Complete Guide to Free Birth, and you and Yo were having us do, by all the women watching it, do an exercise of, like, what the the coolest vision could be. Like, what would the most easeful moment be? What would it be like if it was totally magical? And so I was doing that work, and I kept coming back to this feeling of only a Himalayan salt lamp on, crawling to the edge of the bed, and, like, moving around there, being fully alone, fully by myself for the majority of it, and then waking him up when I was ready for him to be present to have the baby and having our older sons wake up just in time to see it. And that was the vision that just kept coming through as I was doing this journaling and meditation. And it it would be in different parts of the house or it would be in different parts of the bedroom, but it always came back to that same story arc. And so I said, okay. Great. Roll with it. Let's hold this vision the whole pregnancy. And at the same time, I watched the movie Wanderlust. Do you remember that movie at all?
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Maybe.
Speaker 4
Paul Rudd and Jennifer
Speaker 3
Anderson. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4
And they're driving it's really funny because they're driving down to Atlanta, and they stop in a place that's, like, near kind of where you are in North Carolina. And it's this hippie commune where there's a woman who's pregnant, who's going to have a free birth. And in the movie
Speaker 3
Then she's coming to matriarch rising.
Speaker 4
She is. It's the best depiction I've ever seen Hollywood do of birth, where she's just sitting quietly on the porch watching the stars and the moon, and Paul Rudd comes out. And the everybody's talking about, like, polyamory in in the scenes prior. And he sits down next to her, and she's like, I just think it's really perfect that you and I are here together right now. And he goes, oh, like, he can't he's like, are are we doing this? Are we not doing this? And he's kind of asking her, and she's like, no. No. No. And if you know what birth looks like, it's easy to see she's having a sensation. But if you don't, and she just looks kinda like she's like and he's like, oh, this is like tantra. She's, like, trying to breathe with her. And then he's like, so we're gonna and she's like, no. I'm having my baby. And he's like, no. And he stands up. He's like, we gotta call someone. We gotta go to the hospital. She's like, no. I'm gonna have the baby right here. He's like, no. This will not happen. He's like, it's the most beautiful thing that can happen. It's perfectly natural. My baby's on its journey. I'm opening like a lotus flower. Look at the full moon. It's luminous. She, like, bears down, and he flips out. He's, like, yelling. She births the baby, and then he says, I'm gonna faint. And he just falls over and she's sitting there holding this beautiful screaming child and she's like, are you okay? And she's totally fine, totally present and it sounded orgasmic as she was having the child. And yes, I know it's a movie. Yes, I know it's made up. But I kept watching that scene because it's the kind of birth I want. Wouldn't it be
Speaker 3
funny if just, like, you just kept narrating the rest of the movie for the next hour? And I'd be like, Amy, could you please get
Speaker 4
back to her? Because that's what my birth was like, Emilee.
Speaker 3
Oh, wait. Did Anton faint?
Speaker 4
He so I I had sensations kicking in all day, and I was feeling really psychedelic the whole week before. I was convinced I was having the child on multiple occasions, and then the sensations would go away. And the day before I gave birth, it was just building. And I was napping a lot, eating a lot. And around ten thirty, I couldn't sleep anymore. And I was like, oh, I'm just gonna move to the edge of the bed because I can't lay down and and ride this out anymore. And the more that I dove into each sensation as it came, it felt like I was diving into waves. Like, that instead of trying to jump over a wave and get out of it, I was like, not go deep. And and it wouldn't hurt. It would just feel like tingly or it feel really tight or it there are all these other beautiful ways of describing it that were coming up for me. And I was like, woah. Okay. It's happening. This is awesome. And I was dancing around. I was singing, the the song Let the Way Be Open. Let the way be open. Let the way be open. Beautiful chorus has a great version. It's much slower than the Abbey spinner version, but that's the one I was singing. And I was also singing, we are opening up in sweet surrender. And that one, like, I was rotating between the two.
Speaker 3
I want I love that song and I really want someone with a good voice, so not mine, to be like kinda to do like a like a groovy version of that. Like, opening open day. You know what I mean? Like, someone Family. Soul music. Like, that's always how I sing it. I'm like, damn. I need someone to record that.
Speaker 4
I I love this version that Sacred Sons does on their album because it's, like, this big chorus of men talking about surrendering to the feminine and how they're like softening into it and having the woman's voice singing let the way be open with we are opening up in sweets it was like this beautiful balance of the masculine and the feminine happening in my mind and I was also running through a lot of the affirmations that my mentor Kevin Walton has in his creatorhood program and it was this wonderful kind of rhythm that was going through my body and I had the urge to go and open up the curtain and the moon was there. It's like, look at that beautiful almost full moon and the light woke my husband up and he's like, is it Not
Speaker 3
not the singing and dancing.
Speaker 4
No. Well, I was being mostly in my head. I was actually being really soft. I hadn't started vocalizing a whole lot yet. I was just breathing, and I was singing in my head, but the moonlight. And he said, is it luminous? And I just started laughing because he knew how many times I'd seen that video. He knew that I'd memorized the whole scene. Yeah. Like, it is luminous. It's so luminous. And he said, do you want me to be up with you? I was like, yeah. If you're awake, you can be up. And so he's just kinda sitting there, and I was going through it. I couldn't sit down anymore. He would laugh every time I tried to sit down. I was like, no. Get back up because baby's head was there. And stop trying to sit, honey. You're doing great, but, like, that's just too funny. Stop doing it. And, he would help me. Like, I had a sheepskin over the medicine ball, so I didn't have to have my face on plastic. And, you know, just, like, readjust that, and it was really soft and quiet. And all of a sudden, I looked at him and was like, oh, my God. I can't remember number eight. It's like, what are you talking about? It's like listing off the these guiding principles and core values that are from country. Such a freak. I'm such a girl. Like, you talk about your anchors. What are your anchors during birth? I'm sitting there going, know thyself, own thy power. I'm like, doing these things, and and the order is know thyself.
Speaker 3
Touch no plaster.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Live from the heart, honor the connection, live intentionally, listen to the body Okay. Follow the intuition, and then I'd get stuck. I was like, what's number eight? What's number eight? Because I knew number nine was internal cause, external effects, and ten was be driven by love and greater purpose. And I couldn't remember eight. So I was like, get out your phone. Get out your phone right now and look it up. Go to my Google Drive.
Speaker 3
And what are these?
Speaker 4
They're, they're part of the conscious creatorhood program, like the guiding principles. And number eight was own thy sovereignty. And I just started laughing. It's like of all the things. Here I am having the sovereign birth. What's that? Sovereign pregnancy. What am I doing? Yeah. Owned my sovereignty. So we were just laughing through that. And they started to get more intense, and I put on my Ayahuasca ceremony music playlist. A lot of Porangui, a lot of Maria Sabina stuff and it was gorgeous. And I actually that was the first time I threw up because I think my body is like, oh, we're in ceremony now.
Speaker 3
Totally. Totally. Just hearing this chant will make me nauseous.
Speaker 4
Like, hey. Let's go. Yeah. So it was it was funny, but I also knew, like, oh, I'm transitioning right now because I can't talk anymore. I can't like focus on anything like I'm going so inward so deep in my body. There's this complete sense of everything moving down down down down down. I'm just vocalizing and I I don't wanna move away from my spot and I had found a spot where my hands were on our our, bathroom sink and I was like standing kind of in goddess pose and swaying and moving through that. And that's when my sons finally heard me because I was finally getting loud enough for them to wake up. And my second son was like, oh, mom's having the baby and he shook my older one awake who can sleep through anything. He's literally slept through a Michael Fronte concert three rows into the Red Rocks concert I passed out. So woke him up. They came over. They saw us. And at that point, I turned to my husband and I said, I'm I either have to poop again or I have to have a baby. I don't know which is gonna happen, but I need your help. So I walked into the bathroom, and our our master bath has, like, a water closet, so it's just the toilet. And I braced my hands against the side, and I was like, I'm letting it all out this next wave. And he's like, okay. I did, and it was all over the toilet. It was great because it was straight into the toilet. He didn't have to clean up anything on the floor. And at the same time, I felt the baby's head push and, for the first time, had the urge to reach my hand inside. And it felt squishy. I was like, okay, what am I feeling? And I realized, oh, this is the bag of waters. My waters haven't broken yet. And that was new. My first two breaths, the water broke first, and then contractions came. So okay. And with the next wave, I felt like I engaged my pelvic muscles, and the bags, like, the just shot out, like, this crazy waterfall. And the baby's head moved through the cervix and I felt what most people would call the ring of fire but it didn't feel like that this time it just felt like the most delicious sensation of being full I was like my baby's about to come and all I have to do is soften all I have to do is breathe and I took this big deep breath in and I let all of my energy move down and his head crowned and my husband said I can see his ear and my oldest son said I can see his head and my fingers were feeling around. I was like what is that his face that his nose I don't know okay well I can feel the rest of his body still inside and it didn't hurt. It was, like, pleasurable, and it was strange to think about as I was experiencing it. I was like, oh my gosh. This is so intense. This is so much, but it's so good. I don't wanna let go, but, also, I wanna meet my baby. And so I said, he's not done rotating yet. I remember having that like conscious thought of he's gotta finish rotating okay well give him a little boost and with the next wave that came through I engaged my muscles again and I breathed really slowly and lowly and he spun out so fast that it was amazing that my husband was there to catch him because he just shot out of me at that point once he finished the rotation and he brought him up to my chest and that's when he went to go get the phone because at some point during my total space out Ayahuasca trip that was happening, I was like, no phones. Sorry. I threw it out of the room. So he ran and grabbed it, got the video of me kind of gently brushing the mucus off of his face, and Apollo was doing really well with his own first breaths. He, like, was gurgling, but he was coughing and getting it out. He's like, I don't even have to, like, do anything. He's just gonna breathe, and it's great. And so swiping the mucus away as it was coming out, and he let out this beautiful scream. And then his older brothers came in, and they're like, oh, my God. He's like, what's he covered in? What is that stuff? This is good for him it's good for his skin it's very nice and all of a sudden my placenta started to come out it's like oh I didn't even have to try I was really like that was the only thing I was a little bit concerned about because the first two birds they did fundal massage because they said the placenta wasn't coming out fast enough and that was more painful than anything else so the fact that I hadn't even felt anything and it was doing it on its own okay I feel safe I feel home this is nice. And so Anton grabbed the bowl, and we gently walked over to the bed. And I just remember thinking, like, wow. This is the most gentle way to come into the world. It's still dark in the room. There's just a Himalayan salt lamp. The sun's about to rise, and it's only family. And we're all just sitting together, and he was just getting his chance. Yeah. It was amazing. And he just he got to nurse on his own time. Like, he wasn't forced to prove that he could latch. He wasn't forced to have his placenta taken away. We waited two hours to burn the cord, and we tried to get our older sons to do it, but their arms started to get tired holding the candles. So he took over. And it was great from that point. We just kind of laid in bed and snuggled and did skin to skin. And then my friend who's thinking about transitioning, to being out of the system attending births, She came over to just witness the birth story and that's something I think a lot of us don't always get the opportunity to have just a sister sitting there. She didn't need to do anything. She just was witnessing me share what had just happened. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Oh, god. Just that.
Speaker 4
So gorgeous to have that sisterhood, to have the the redemption of I can have birth on a toilet without any trouble. And to also, like, this is something that, I didn't mention earlier, but my second birth, the midwife told me that the reason she was pulling on him was because he had shoulder dystocia.
Speaker 1
Okay.
Speaker 4
Which I mean anybody who knows anything about shoulder dystocia knows that's not what you do you don't yank a baby out with a shoulder dystocia you're gonna hurt their shoulders if that's the case and it definitely wasn't because he had not only fully crowned but he was like his whole neck was out too and with this third baby when he crowned his head didn't feel like it was all the way out and my husband said I can see his ear it was just the top of his ear he was only up to here which with my intuition on the inside saying he hasn't finished rotating yet, he's still something's like stopping him and he's not fully out, we could argue that that's shoulder dystosha and he was fine. Like, it it was this really redemptive part internally, and I don't care if it was or not. I don't care if that's, like, the real
Speaker 3
thing. It wasn't because he
Speaker 4
he He wasn't actually stuck. Right. Yeah. So But he did take a beat
Speaker 3
he did take a beat. Like, I get your point. He took a beat there where a scared medical provider that doesn't know anything would easily or likely call it that and then ruin your birth.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That's what I mean. It's like nobody interfered. We just let him be. We didn't pathologize it. We didn't need to label it. It it was all in him. Perfect divine timing for that baby and he is the most calm gentle chill kid and you saw him was he like ever doing anything for Nishant that made you cry saying he was just kinda sitting there looking at people or he was asleep. So it was it was so gentle and so glorious and and postpartum, the most stressful part was my own issues with my mom where she didn't come out to help. And I, yeah, I'm I'm working on mother wound right now, and that's fine. But my sister stepped up as a result, like and I had to be okay calling them crying saying, I need help right now. I feel alone, and I feel like I'm at my wit's end, and I don't know what to do. And this is where I think the value of the community that you've been building for years and the value of community that other RBKs are creating with women's circles and with this consistent sisterhood meeting really shows up because I was able to call someone, and she was able to rally other friends. And suddenly, there was soup at my house and someone to brush out and braid my hair, which had turned into, like, dreadlocks, and someone else to do the laundry and someone else to play UNO with my kids. So, like, there was there was community, and it was redemptive on lots of levels that way.
Speaker 3
If you were to, like, describe in a word or a sentence, like, how the experience of of wild pregnancy and free birth has changed you, what would you say?
Speaker 4
I am not afraid to speak what needs to be said to people that I love, even if it may push them away a little more, in a way that is gentle and with complete responsibilities. So in a lot of the ways that you talk about with self mastery, saying, like, this is where I'm at, and I wanna let you know that, and you don't have to change. Like, no expectations on other people to do anything that I'm doing. Because throughout the pregnancy, because I was, like, die hard keto and a couple other things beforehand, everything just softened where there was a lot more acceptance for myself, a lot more acceptance for the people around me, and a gentleness that came through that allowed the birth to be gentle too.
Speaker 5
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
And that that shift is probably the one that I was never expecting. Right?
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Being, like, so righteous beforehand. I was very much on that drama triangle in the pointing fingers mode of, like, this was wrong. And
Speaker 2
Well, it's I
Speaker 3
kept I think that has a lot to do with, like, the turn of the wheel from maiden to mother too. Like, the spiritual work of womanhood, I think, is so tied into that. Like, in maidenhood, we're trying to figure out who we are. And so if I think for a lot of us, there's a lot of righteousness in, like, defending who we are, you know, and looking for who's on that same page. And then I think there's this, like, yeah, this, like, shift that can happen in motherhood. Obviously, doesn't happen for everybody, but we're just more embodied. It's just easier to be softer because once you once you really are with who you are, you don't have to be as guards up and as, like, even feisty about it. You know?
Speaker 4
That was a big one. I didn't have to be feisty. I didn't have to, like, prove my point. I could just let it be. And and That's true. With the wild yeah. With the wild pregnancy, especially, the trust factor of trusting myself and not needing other people to trust me because it was my body and it was my experience. I didn't have to prove it to them. And before I I think I did, I was very wowed about home birth and midwifery and all sorts of things. And now, I'm like, yeah. You do you. If you wanna be in the system, be in the system. If you don't wanna be in the system, I'm here. And and I would love to be, more loud about it in the future in different ways. Sorry if you can hear my dogs. We're getting a delivery of pasteurized chicken today. That's probably what's happening. So but the the idea of really just saying what's on my heart without needing to shove it down people's throats being able to say something that's probably really radical to most individuals hearing it and not need them to believe it to say like this is where I'm at That's been the biggest shift. And It's
Speaker 3
like embodiment.
Speaker 4
Mhmm. Really. Embodiment.
Speaker 3
I mean, it's all the stuff we talk about. Right? And then with the tools, like, once once you can source your own sense of approval for yourself, just the whole outside world just, like, totally changes how you interact with it and what you think you need from it. And
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. This is the the big part of what my mentor Kevin like goes into with a lot of of the tools he offers are very similar to the fifteen commitments book, with like the perspectives of to me, by me Mhmm. Through me and as me. His is really on the the line between through me and as me. So for a lot of people when I talk about it, they're like, I don't know. It doesn't make sense. It's not computing. But he always talks about how everything is a choice and everything has been a choice and how do we, consciously choose and his phrasing of with this awareness what will I choose was my motto that whole time of like, okay, before I outsourced this to the system or I let a midwife tell me that. And now, I'm choosing for myself. Right. And And
Speaker 3
it feels
Speaker 4
so good. It does. And I feel like I see the difference with the kids I see like my oldest. He's always doing his best to prove that he's okay and to prove that everything's fine and the whole pregnancy. That's what we were checking for and then my second he's doing his best to control things himself because everything was out of his control during the birth and then with my third, it was all free. It was all like intuition based. It was all trust and he's the calmest with everybody who holds him like I was a little bit worried not gonna lie when you're like, yeah, you can't hold your baby with the Mayeshark Rising Festival presentation. And I was like, how am I gonna teach a class? I mean, this is a newborn. What am I gonna do?
Speaker 3
Let me know. Emilee Saldaya said that a postpartum mother cannot hold her baby.
Speaker 4
But I was I wanted to honor that this is your festival and that was the policy, and I really wanted to share the beautiful my husband's story. Slope.
Speaker 3
You know it is slippery slope.
Speaker 4
It is. Well, once one awakes, like, things can happen. And, like, I was like, what if I nurse him and it's fine? And I ended up he is nursing when the class was about to start, and he fell asleep in my arms. And the just the speaking portion, I did hold him. And then I was like okay this is the test I don't know what's gonna happen and I handed him off to my friend's mom and Karina got the most beautiful picture of that moment of me like handing him to her and she's become like my bonus mom and his bonus grandma and he slept in her arms for the next hour of the class and it was glorious and I didn't know how he was gonna handle not being in my presence because nobody had held him for very long up until that point except me and with my older sons the minute I did that with them whether I was teaching yoga or meditation or whatever they lost their shit. They just like screamed bloody murder of I'm not in my mom's arms. So it was a moment of trust again in that space and he I think because he had such a grounded beginning he's like yeah I'm safe she'll be back when she's back and same thing right now he's with dad and he loves just facing out and looking at our climbing wall which is covered with stickers it's like a baby Ayahuasca trip because my older sons have colored on it and it just looks like this riot of color and he just sits there like some grin on his face like look at this beautiful artwork that my older brothers made for me just for me yay And I have never felt comfortable being away from the baby, and he's comfortable being away from me because his whole life began in the space of trust.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Love it. Alright. Well, I'm sure women are gonna wanna find you and follow you. So how can they do that before we wrap?
Speaker 4
They can find me at witch goddess mama. Exactly how it sounds w I t c h g o d d e s s m a m a on Instagram and that's my I'm debating turning it into my business page again right now it's my personal page and then I have birth in ceremony as the RBK page. And it's also my website. You can go to birth in ceremony dot com or amy salara dot com. Either one will take you to the same spot. And I'm doing birth coaching consultations on over the phone as well as all of the other offerings I've done in the past with astrology and life coaching. And just started helping women with Yoni Steaming again because of school and womb wellness and the womb mysteries, and I'm loving it. I'll be doing more goddess things coming up, that I'm excited about and the virtual festival as well. So all all the good things, and I I love, love, love helping women find the same space of the divine coming through and that trust and that ability to surrender while staying fully present. Mhmm. I
Speaker 3
mean, they they have to go together. Yeah. Otherwise, it's dissociation. Yeah. Okay. Love it. You're so good.
Speaker 4
Love you too.
Speaker 3
Thank you for your time.
Speaker 4
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of sovereign birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 5
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons, all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
