Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild, freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. It's
Speaker 0
been a wild freedom check since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Alright. Welcome, Chrissy.
Speaker 3
Thank you. So beautiful to be here with you.
Speaker 2
I'm I'm feeling a lot of envy around your background, and I'm gonna turn it into inspiration. Maybe your husband can give me some pointers.
Speaker 3
Yes. He would love that. He loves to call people.
Speaker 2
Alright. So tell us a little bit before you get into your full story. Like, where are you living? You know, what what what's a little bit about your who you are?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, yes, I'm Chrissy, and I live here on this beautiful land on the Sunshine Coast of Australia. We live on well, it's it's called Shambhala Farm, is the name of our farm, and we do many things on this farm. We also have a yoga shala. So it's me, my partner Craig, and my two babies. My girl is not a baby anymore. She's four. Her her name's Bertie. And Cosmo, who I free birthed, he is now seven months somehow. Cute. Cosmo is So we do
Speaker 2
the name of one of Yolanda's sons Oh, yes. That's right. And and the name of our black cat.
Speaker 3
Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2
That's awesome. That's so funny. That's so funny. So cute.
Speaker 3
That's so funny. Yeah. Yeah. So, do we do lots of different things here, and I've I've had my own online offerings and dabbled in lots of different things. I was a yoga teacher for many, many years, hence why we have a yoga shala. And now I've just shifted into as life does, I've just shifted along into other passions and things, especially being a mama. Yeah.
Speaker 2
What's your focus right now?
Speaker 3
I'm studying human design, actually. I don't know if you've heard of it. It's a it's a beautiful modality, and I'm in love with it. And it's totally, like, transformed my life. Really? I'm so obsessed. Everyone around me is like, okay. Like, you can stop talking about that now. No. I love it. So I'm studying it, and I've started doing readings and stuff, and it's really it's just really makes so much sense to me, and it's really brought me so much clarity. So, yeah, that's what I'm really into right now.
Speaker 2
Awesome. Yeah. Alright. Well, take us to the beginning of who are you as you become a mom and, you know, as I'm sure the title, whatever we roll with, you know, will will, you know, point to part of why I thought it'd be interesting to have you on. I don't actually I don't actually particularly find it interesting that you had a free birth at the age of forty five. I don't find that interesting. Yeah. Totally. You know what I mean? But but but but other people will find it interesting. Yeah. And and, you know, there's obviously a, strong, strong, strong, cultural narrative, you know, that the older you get, the less, capacity you have to
Speaker 3
birth. Yes.
Speaker 2
And it's just totally not true. And so you might be you might be the oldest free birther on the season or on the podcast, although we are talking with a woman who is fifty. Whoo. So she's gonna have you have you be but, anyway, not to make you sound like an old lady, but, you know, we gotta talk but we gotta talk about the age thing because it is such a, you know, a cultural misogynistic, Yes. You know, operation. So, yeah, just take it away. Tell us a bit about who you are and and Yeah. Becoming a mom.
Speaker 3
Well, I met my partner later in life, as we say. I was, I guess, thirty thirty nine or something like that. We met in Bali, on a teacher training for yoga. Yeah, and it was pretty instant, like, chemistry, and I was, like, dabbling in, trying to date multiple people at once and do all these things because I've been married before. And I was like, I don't think I'm gonna be very good at that again. Anyways, but I met him. I was like, uh-oh. So, yeah, we we fell in love, and he talked me into moving to this beautiful place, which wasn't too hard. It was all quite quick. And, So
Speaker 2
he already had the farm?
Speaker 3
He had the farm. Yeah.
Speaker 0
He had
Speaker 3
the farm. He had the farm. Yeah. He was like, hey. Do you wanna come and hang out on my farm? And I was living in Brisbane It's so much. Happy happy as a single woman teaching yoga full time, like, playing around, doing all the things, like, having so much fun. And I was really in my element, and so it was really challenging, actually. I was like, oh, I I loved him. And I was like, that sounds nice, but I was like, really loved my life. And I'd worked really hard to get to that place of, like, being really fulfilled in myself. And I obviously needed to get there be I think before I could fall in love with him. So that was beautiful. But, I didn't move here. And he already had two kids who, you know, they were not little little, but they're still young. But, like, I I could he was feeling he was done done, you know, being a papa as he's called. And, yeah, but he wasn't. So he met me, and I changed the I I think I changed his trajectory quite a bit.
Speaker 2
Sounds like it. Wait. So were you, like, from the get, like, oh, I'm definitely having kids?
Speaker 3
You know what, Emilee? I wasn't because I went through a couple different relationships. And for whatever reason, you know, as the universe just throws these things, kind of goes, okay. This is your path because you're gonna have to learn some things from it, and then you're gonna come out the other side and, you know, hopefully have wisdom and not be bitter or whatever. And I I never it never happened. Like, I was married twice. Once when I was really young, like, twenty, twenty one, and then we divorced after a few years. But then another time when I moved here, and I don't know. It just didn't happen. Like, he the guy the the my second husband, he was just a gypsy. He didn't he'd already had a child. He didn't he didn't really want it even though he kinda told me that he would. So I had this weird, like, I never was one of those women that was like, I know I'm gonna be a mother. I don't think it was, like, in me straight away. And, obviously, I had to go through a lot of I was meant to go through a lot of things before I was able to step into that role, which I'm really, really, really grateful that I didn't step into it earlier, to be honest. God. Seriously. So much so much work for me and so much I don't know what else to call it, but, like, I just had a lot of stuff to move through, And I did. And then with him, he did ask pretty quickly. Like, he was very, like he was very good, very direct. Like, you know, some people just, like, mess around, and we were like he was like, what are you thinking? Because, you know, obviously, if you're having sex, it's sex. It's like, you know, what are you thinking? And I for some reason, I thought Emilee was like, I actually don't even know if I'm I'm gonna be able to get pregnant because by then, I hadn't. And it's not like I hadn't had sex. So I just wasn't sure. And I but meeting him kind of changed some things for me because I'm like, well, this would be a man that I would I would love to have babies with. You know? I really felt that strongly with him. And that was new, that feeling of, like, woo. Okay. That pull. And then so it was it was a bit of a discussion, and we just met. So it was like I was like, oh my gosh. Are we really talking about this? And he was like, well, yeah. So I came here, lived here for a little while, and I think it was I think it was it wasn't that long. You know, we got married and we I was forty when we kind of were really speaking to it because obviously then, you know, I had that in my head of like, you're forty. Oh my god. You totally missed the boat. What you know? And I was freaking out a little bit. And in hindsight, it makes me laugh, actually. Like, oh my god. I have so much time. And then my husband and I had some big talks. I can still picture us sitting in sitting in the kitchen together. And I'm like, I knew and and this is something I would love to share because this was a big question for me that came up was, some people are like, how do you know? Like, when you're that later in life, like, you know, aren't you scared? And how do you know whether or not you should? And this is what I always say. If you can sit here and ask yourself the question, would my fifty or sixty year old self regret not trying to have kids? And if you can say, I I, you know, I wouldn't regret that, then you probably are okay to not have kids. But I couldn't say that, Emilee. I was like, I would regret it hundred percent. I felt it so strongly in my gut. Like, you need to at least at least try. And that's what we said. Like, let's at least try. Again, even the language was like, we probably won't, you know, because of age. But at least let's try so that I don't have that regret later in life. So I went to, like, a naturopath, and I just I think I got some blood work done and, you know, did all this stuff that I I really probably didn't need to do because it was like testing if I was still, you know, able to produce a baby, which is just funny now when I think about it. But, anyways, we did all that. And, we got married. And not long after we got married, we were really try we were trying. Like, I just I was way more conscious of my cycle and really learning about that. And I don't think I had had as much, awareness around it until I really started to fall you know, wanna fall pregnant. We fell pregnant not long after we were trying. I was pregnant for nine nine or ten weeks. And then when I went to the scan, I found out that we'd had an early loss, which was probably the most, yeah, devastating thing I'd ever been through. I was so I think there was also this buildup of, like, you did it like a miracle. Like, you you got pregnant. You can't lose this baby. Like, it'll never happen again. That fear, especially with the medical system, like, how they speak to you as a geriatric mother or whatever. And the lady that gave us I'll never forget her. The lady that gave us the news, she was cold. She had no sympathy. There was no bedside manner. It was just like, there's no heartbeat. Like, she didn't even say, I'm so sorry to tell you. Like, it was it made it even more, like, shocking. You know? And I remember my body going into, like, almost, like, this shock and yeah. It was really, really, really horrible the way
Speaker 2
she drones, man. She yeah.
Speaker 3
She really. She's she was pretty terrible. And, and even the people that referred you to her, because she's supposed to be the best at what she does at the scans and stuff.
Speaker 2
What? Checking? Yeah. The the child could check.
Speaker 3
Yeah. She she was just the people would always say, like, she's she just doesn't have good, you know, like, good people skills.
Speaker 2
What you what you want? I know. I'm like That's wild.
Speaker 3
But this is kind of anyway, so we went through that loss, and I I I was really like, I grieved for a long time. Probably, when I look back now, I'm like, wow. That I really kept I kept my grief for a while, but that's okay. Like, that was part of my process. And I knew, you know, things like that come up for you to really realize what you want. Right? Like, I knew I was like, I'm meant to be a mother. Like, I know I am. This this proves it. I just know I'm I'm meant to be a mama. And, I had so much I have so much, appreciation for that experience now because, actually, after I went through it, I shared a bit about it and it it, like, broke open my world because people we realized like, at the time, I didn't realize, but now I see, yeah, there's not a lot of support around it. And women feel so, like, they have to keep it quiet and, oh, you don't you don't really talk about that. People don't know how to deal with your losses. It's it's uncomfortable for them. And so, yeah, I but I didn't I didn't do that. I shared about it. I made people uncomfortable. And so we tried, the this part's really beautiful because it just shows my daughter's personality came through even in the womb, but, I was like, I wanna try again. Like, I was trying again pretty much straight away. I don't even think I didn't care about getting my period back. I was like, I'm I can feel the urgency of, you know and it was probably her. And I had some scarring because I had a DNC because we had to get on a plane pretty much, like, right after my loss, like, to go to America to go to see my family. And I was really I don't know. I had a lot of, like I didn't want to do it. I could feel I was like, I don't wanna do this. It's so you know, there's no there's no spirit in it. But, I was also really nervous about being on a long flight and having something big happen and just not feeling like like, what if, you know, what if I start bleeding? And what you know what I mean? Like, those kinds of, like, the what if thoughts came through.
Speaker 2
You wanted to control it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. So when I, had that operation, afterwards, I started getting, like, cramping and pains, and I went back, you know, to that lady, to the scan lady. And and she said I had scarring. And that can happen sometimes with the DNC, I guess. And, she was like, you know, you probably have to go in and then they then then it's like and now you have to go back and they have to do I can't even remember what they did, but it was something they would do to help get rid of the scarring. Anyways, they were like, you won't get pregnant now. Like, that it's just first of all, it's not safe if you get pregnant now because of the scarring, and you need to wait until you have this surgery. And I'm like, what? And it was just really hard to get an appointment to get the surgery. So not only did I feel like I was like, it's not out of it's, like, in their hands if I get pregnant. It was it was the crappiest feeling, and I would, like, call all the time to see, like, when's the next availability? And they're like, oh, in a couple months. Okay. So, anyways, of course, we fell pregnant because my daughter was like, fuck that. Screw that. I'm coming in.
Speaker 2
And because all of that was nonsense.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And she came in hot. It was just like I remember I was teaching yoga one day, and I was like, I just felt so sick. And I was like, oh god. I feel sick. And then I was like, wait. Why do I feel sick? And my husband wasn't home and I rushed and I got a pregnancy test and it was like bright pink or whatever. The the lines came up straight away and I was like, I couldn't believe it. I was like, And then but at the same time, I was like, I knew it. Like, I knew I could get pregnant. You know? And I didn't need your your surgery. So, it was funny because then when we went, of course, because I went into the system in a way, when we went back to get scans or when we went back to do whatever, they were like, wow. How did you do that? You know? It's just I remember people's reactions, like, the doctors and that scan lady was like, how did you how did you guys make that happen? And I was like, just life? Like, just because she was meant to come, and we didn't need your stupid temper. CX. Yes. That's right. We had lots of sex. So that was really beautiful.
Speaker 2
What was your level of, like, fear and anxiety in that pregnancy? High. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And, unfortunately, hindsight is everything. But when I look back, I'm like, wow. Like, when you're that anxious, any woman that goes through a loss and then has another pregnancy knows it just comes with a bit of well, or for some of us, a lot of, you know, constantly like, is it okay? Is is that baby okay? Is it okay? I would say that first couple of months, Emilee, it was in I was, like, a bit intense for me. It was really bad. Like and I say bad because I was leaning so heavily on controlling through the external, through the system, and I was primed for them. I was like, yeah. She's scared. Let's do the things. Like, I got a midwife, and I specifically got a midwife that could be I don't forget I don't forget how they called, but, like, she could be in the hospital and be home birth. Mhmm. Whatever that is, she goes back and forth. And I had so many scans. So many scans. Like, I feel terrible now, like, for my daughter, and I feel guilty. But I also know that at the time, I was like, my mind was messed up. Like, not messed up, but just so anxious. Give me that reassurance. Give me that reassurance. It was like addiction. Like,
Speaker 2
yeah. It really is.
Speaker 3
Every week until I hit second trimester, and then I just I finally was like, okay. You know? Like, let's lean into it. Let's let's trust. This baby is okay. This baby is still here. There was so much
Speaker 2
Who are you at that point pregnant with her? You get the medical midwife. Are you thinking you'll home birth? Like, what's your
Speaker 3
maybe I would, but between my partner and I, I think he was nervous because he also has the myth of the age being a factor or being a risk factor. And, of course, they were we were told, you know, how many times that that was a risk. And, you know, like when you go get the scans and they do all the things that she's like, I'd like to put you at this risk, but with your age, we have to you know, like, all that conversation.
Speaker 2
Did you do all the genetic testing and the amnio? Like, where was the line with because of your age? Which by the way, is to present No.
Speaker 3
I didn't do you're forty one. One. Okay. I didn't do the I did the, like, what's the the, like, kind of first one they do? I don't know what it's called, sir. But I didn't do, like, where they test for, like, if there's Down syndrome or stuff like that. I was told, like, very much pressure put on me to do it, and I was like, I don't wanna do that because I'm gonna have this baby, whoever they are. Like
Speaker 2
Well, so the the kind of interesting thing about this is and I'm more so talking to everyone else, not necessarily you because you probably understand this. But the thing about the age in the system, well, really is that it's one of, you know, the it's one of the many colorful ways to control
Speaker 3
you. Totally.
Speaker 2
But but the what what they will say, you know, their story that they run with is actually nothing to do with your ability to give birth. It is around the health and integrity of your eggs. And so that's interesting, I think, because, I guess what I'm saying is the the concern within the system about a woman over thirty eight, thirty seven, whatever, it's kinda the needle's always moving, is is actually not about her body once she, you know, conceives a baby. It's about the chromosomal health of the fetus that is growing. It's not actually about your ability to have contractions and release a baby. It's very specifically about the health and integrity of the egg. And so it's just kind of interesting because even within that system, I think it's interesting that you were, like, not feeling all those tests, but still under the spell
Speaker 3
of Yeah.
Speaker 2
The larger, you know, myth that there was something, like, wrong or potentially wrong. But in truth, even in their systems, it has nothing to do with your age.
Speaker 3
Yes. I hear you. And it yeah. I remember that sitting in that office, and there was a lot of pressure to do the do the do the test, do that test specific specifically that one. It was like, you need to know this. And I was like, no. Because I'm not I'm not doing anything if with this information. And how do you how do I even know that's a hundred percent true? Right? So
Speaker 2
I But you you didn't do the so you didn't do genetic testing, but you did several ultrasound scans?
Speaker 3
I did. Yeah. Several is a good yeah. I did I did many scans.
Speaker 2
So what were you after? Was it just
Speaker 3
heartbeat? Heartbeat. The heartbeat. Yeah. So sometimes I go in and they'd literally just do like a it would be like like, they'd put it on my belly and I'd be in there for, like, two seconds just because they, you know, knew that's all I was looking for. And so I didn't really wanna check anything else. And we didn't wanna know, you know, if it was a boy or a girl. I I really wanted I wanted some and interestingly enough, with all that, I still wanted surprise. Mhmm. Even though I'd gone through this whole medical system.
Speaker 2
And You're like you're contending with your own fear, which is what we're all doing
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 2
You know, through this. It's like you have intuition coming through. You have, like, whispers of what your heart is being drawn to, and then you also have the way in which you're contending or or humoring your fear.
Speaker 3
Yes. And often my fear would would win Mhmm. In the in the in the journey of that pregnancy, which I know I don't I don't think I hold as much guilt, but there was a time there where I felt really guilty after. When I when I when I when I opened my eyes to especially learning everything about free birth. I'm like, oh my gosh. You need to see the my first birth now with, like, these other you know, there's no blinds over my eyes anymore. I'm like, ah, I see all the things, which is kinda painful at the time. Yeah.
Speaker 2
There are deep, powerful secrets to your own sacred experience of womanhood that no one in your life knew to tell you. The time has come to fully awaken the wise woman within you and to claim your place on the ancient path of supporting holistic women's health. You're well aware of the devastating reality that is modern fertility, modern menstruation, industrial birth, the way our society treats menopause, and really all of the rites of passage for women from start to finish. We are countless generations deep now with girls initiated into womanhood with deep lifelong toxic shame. Grown women have no idea how to tell when they're fertile, how to prevent pregnancy, how to address menstrual challenges without pharmaceuticals. There's no room for how to harness the wisdom and gifts of our cycles phases. Women are afraid of their own bodies, and they teach this to their daughters, and their daughters teach it to their daughters. This just isn't good enough. Not for me, not for you, and certainly not for our daughters. And here we are together in this time wanting to do better, wanting to be better, to break the shame cycle, and to leave our lineage injected with power, wisdom, strength, and self love. Join us for the next round of the Blood Mystery School. Our highly coveted program is channeled and run by two long standing sisters of mine, women who are core leaders within matric rising festival and free birth society. Nancy Lucina is a shamanic facilitator and medicine woman. Kristen Houser is a woman's holistic health expert. Together, they take you on a potent eight week journey where you walk the medicine wheel of your own menstrual cycles archetypes so that you can learn to guide the women of your community through cycle healing of all iterations. You will address the spiritual, energetic, hormonal, and biological aspects of every phase of the female cycle so that you are fully equipped to become the radical sovereign cycle coach that your community really needs. The Blood Mysteries School will pave the way for your career in cycle and fertility coaching, holistic women's health, and ceremony facilitation. This knowledge is foundational to any work in birth or women's health at large. We only run the Blood Mystery School once a year, so make sure you're on the wait list. The link is below. It is time that you walk with the knowledge all the women, and I do mean all, around you need to know. Let's be the ones that steer our bloodlines toward embodiment once and for all.
Speaker 3
I my midwife, she was so she was obviously quite in the system because she was very much, like, could be in the hospital and, you know, she was obviously a medical midwife. And I really relied on her for a lot. Like and now I understand that I gave her, you know, my power, like, in so many ways, and I gave the system my power in so many ways. And I wanted I I like I think there was a part of me that really wanted to home birth Emilee, but there was still so much fear around what if something happened. You know? My partner was probably a bit nervous around my age. I mean, maybe if I said that to him now, he'd be like, no. It wasn't. But I do remember it came up in conversations, because we both, you know, were taught that, you know, that's pretty old to have a baby.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And, and there's, you know, like, not my family so much, but other people closer to us that probably had expressed their fears as well, which people love to do when you're pregnant. And so we ended up saying we're gonna do it in the hospital, and that was, like, our birth plan would just speak to go to the hospital when I was in labor. But I didn't ever get to go into labor naturally because
Speaker 4
I
Speaker 3
ended up being induced, of course. And I say of course because it like, when I look at what happened to my pregnancy, I'm like, yeah. I was really I was really vulnerable to, like, the outside information. And and and it was I think it was really hard for me to hear my own intuition, which is, like, the thing that I'm so passionate about and it's what I share about now is, like, you know, listening to my own my own voice.
Speaker 2
And you were always gonna be induced. Almost all almost all all women are induced in the system. That's just, like, without intuition or not. You know? Yeah. That's the track you were on whether you realize it or not.
Speaker 3
No. I think I didn't realize it at all, and I I just assumed I would go into, yeah, I I would go into labor naturally and experience all the things. And, I started to, one day, this one night, I had, like, a night that was really hard and I was, like, throwing up a lot. And I actually thought I was like, oh, am I going into labor? Because it was close to my, guest date, forty it was close to forty weeks or whatever. And, and I was just vomiting all night, and I was really, like, sick, not feeling good. And, you know, we told my midwife. So she came that morning, and she took my blood pressure, and it was really high. And I was and and even her she tried taking it. Like, she took it multiple times. She tried, like, to get a normal one. And then I, you know, I could just see on her face, and I was like, what is it? And she's like, I gotta call the hospital. We've gotta have you go in. And, yeah, I remember her calling. And I had no idea then. I was like, you know, there's a part of me that probably felt reassured because I was like, you know, she's taking care of me, figuring out what was wrong. Like, I didn't want anything to be wrong with the baby. But that's when it started. And that's when the preeclampsia came up. The preeclampsia diagnosis came up. And and now I'm like, I just now I look back and I said, everything I've learned from, you know, you guys, I I know I didn't have preeclampsia.
Speaker 2
Also, what even is preeclampsia? You know? It's like Yeah. It's, like, completely changes. You know? It's it's like it's like COVID. Oh. You know? Like, what is it? Yeah. Oh, so it's high BP with this midwife? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. That that's one symptom. It's supposed to even be a collection of symptoms. You know? Like, were you presenting with extreme swelling of the extremities and
Speaker 3
No. There was no disturbances and Yeah. There was one other thing I think it was so it was so interesting because I think I had, like, high for a while, I've been she'd been testing my urine or something, and I tested with protein in it or something like that. And that was one of the that was the other one they used Mhmm. As well as my high blood pressure. But, of course, you know, I got to the hospital, my blood pressure, fine. Hundred percent fine. Nothing else was wrong, and it never was it it never went back up again except for when I was in labor because, of course, they induced me. And you know that now I understand that what they gave me actually causes high blood pressure, which later I was like, what? I mean, it just blew my mind. But yeah. So I once I got into the hospital, it was really tricky because they wanted to immediately immediately get me, you know, into induction. And I hadn't slept all night. I hadn't eaten. I felt like crap. I was I was so confused. I was, like, messaging and calling my midwife while I was at the hospital, and they were really strong, the hospital staff. The nurses and staff there were like you know? And I'll never forget when they pulled out that, you know, your baby could die card. You could die. Your baby could die. Like, all this stuff. You know? And my partner and I are in this hospital going, like, can she eat first? Like, can she go home and have a meal? Like, can she have a nap? Like, I was just so delirious because I hadn't slept, and I've been throwing up all night. So I was like, this is not a good time for me to have a baby. Right? Like, shouldn't I still
Speaker 2
And your BP had nor had regulated.
Speaker 3
Totally. They're like But they
Speaker 2
have They're like, you have totally normal blood pressure. You could definitely die.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. And your baby could definitely die. And you when they pull that card, it's so disgusting. I'm like now I look back, and I'm like, how gross. You know? I had to sign the thing. You know? Like, when you leave without their permission, I had to sign the thing. And I was like, oh my god. It's so, like it was horrible. But but it didn't actually have to sign it. No. I probably didn't have to sign it, but it felt like I did to to get out of there to get out of jail. And I went home. And I Okay. I was so so I denied that, but it was it took all my willpower because it was still scary. And then I I went to, I I went home, ate, had a sleep, you know, felt much better. But I was still going back and forth with my midwife. Mhmm. And even she she was trying she did the whole, like, you know, like, she wanted me to make the decision, and she was trying not to give any opinions. And but we would call the I'd go to visit with her and we'd call the hospital, and they were like, oh, we know we think that, you know, la la la. You know, you should, you should come back in and, you know, you can and at this point, I was almost forty weeks. Yeah. So something I wanna share about this part because I really feel clarity around it. When I listened to a podcast with you and Yolanda, and you guys were talking about victim the be being in victim mode. And it was the first time I'd really heard about it as in in a way that I it just, like, landed so hard. And Yolanda was saying something, and it just I had to rewind it, like, three times because I was like, this is it. This is what happened to me. And it was like this feeling of, like she was saying, like, there's that feeling as an in victim mode that you're just like, you're you wanna be saved. Like, you're like, save me. Yes. I'm special. Save me. And I remember that feeling, Emilee. I remember that feeling so strongly now. Like, I remember it because I was, like, telling, like, some of my closest friends, this is what's happening. Oh, I think I'll have to, you know, like, I think they'll have to do this for me. And, you know, like, even my language was probably around, like, I you know, something was wrong with me or wrong with the baby, and we had to get saved.
Speaker 2
The drama.
Speaker 3
And it was yeah. The it was the drama.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Of course.
Speaker 3
And it was weird. Like, I can still feel that.
Speaker 2
Fun. It's kind of exciting. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think there was a bit of excitement. Of course. And I wanted my own drama maybe because I've been listening to another podcast. I didn't know yours yet. I hadn't found you yet. That wasn't until Cosmo. And there was a lot of drama in it, you know, in those stories. Like, there was always something going on, something drama, something someone was saved. And I'm like, I must have, like, wanted to have that. So I chose it. So on my forty you know, on my due date, I chose to yeah. We rode into the hospital, and I was induced. And I remember being excited. Of course, I was excited because I'm meeting my baby. But now if someone tried to do that with Cosmo induced me, I would have been so livid to like, get the, You know? But it was just a I was a different Chrissy, and I didn't have that information, and I wasn't ready probably for that.
Speaker 2
It's like ultimate predator, you know, to it's like ultimate, like, preying on that excitement. Like, the fact that you you are gonna meet your baby, and they're not, even remotely transparent. You know? Yeah. A lot of fear mongering that's really, like, pretty deeply unethical, but, also, they aren't transparent about what an induction is and what it involves and what it often results in and how dangerous it is. And, man, it is such a violent and usually very long process. Yeah. You know? People don't really know what they're saying yes to. Not not probably. They the women do not know what they're saying yes to. It is often pitched as just a little gel. We'll just start with a little gel and see what happens. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Hard work. Yeah. They did the balloon, like, to break my waters. The fully balloon. The balloon thing. And just the pain of getting that in the night before. My midwife was like, are you because I didn't make a sound. I was just, like, trying to breathe through it, and she was like, usually people are, like, writhing and screaming. And I'm like, I just was trying to, like, go away. You know, like, leave my body because it was the most horrible, painful thing, especially when you're pregnant. Like, you're already
Speaker 2
So she's describing the Foley balloon, which its intention it's a torture device of obstetrics in which it actually attempts to pry open your cervix, which is an internal organ for a reason. And so if it is successful in violently opening the cervix, then the Foley balloon will fall out. And then the next step is going to be pitocin or rupturing the bag of waters. And it's it's like you're describing. You know? I just want other women to really hear that because it is yeah. It's called the Foley balloon. It is a very common initial tool in forcing a baby out.
Speaker 3
It was horrible. It was probably one of the worst parts, to be honest, which I didn't expect. And that night, I it was like I was starting to get surges and, like, really strong, and and they would come in and check on me. And there was a point that came in, they were like, oh, how long has she been like this? And my partner is like, oh, a little while. And then they had other people come in, but then, of course, it just it went away. All all the surges went away, and I kinda rested for a bit. And then I had I had to go in, and my midwife met came to the hospital at I think it was, like, six AM that they come in and then they, yeah, they fully busted it, busted it all open. And my waters broke forcefully. And, and then they're like they were I was told that I would get some time to see if labor could start naturally even though it's, like, it's not natural because you just did the thing with my yeah. And they gave me, like I reckon it was, like, ten minutes or something. It was a time. It was just like a blip. And I was like, oh. And they're like, okay. It's not happening. So, you know, we're gonna put you on, Pitocin, and we'll give you we'll start you on a low dose or whatever, and you can walk around and yeah. And my midwife was there for that. And then she left because she wanted to be there for the actual baby coming. And so she left, and there was the second midwife who I didn't really know, but she was part of the same, like, company of midwives. And, yeah, it if if you've never been induced if you've been induced, you know what I'm talking about. But it was pretty intense, and it ramped up pretty fast. It wasn't gradual. Like, a little bit in the morning, I remember being able to talk and laugh with my partner and walk around. And then there was this point midday where it just went boom. And it was just like, boom, boom, boom, like surge after surge. And they do the thing where they put the the strap around your belly to monitor you and the baby, and they could never get it right, Emilee. So all I can remember about my labor with Birdie is that there was a woman constantly touching me, constantly moving this thing in the middle of surges too. And it was just the most uncomfortable thing in the world because she was constantly, like, you know and then they had the, you know, the beeping, the the machine that, like, tells you when you're gonna have a surge. So it was, like, half the time, they were, like, watching that. I was watching that. And it was just horrible because it was, like, this constant, like, okay. When's the next one coming? And there was not really a lot of relief. And then she would constantly be going, oh, Chrissy, I really need to, I need to move that. I'm not I get I the baby I can't get the baby's heart heartbeat. Fuck. It was horrible. And, you know, now that I have hindsight of what what happened with Cosmo. Anyways, so, there was a lot of touching, a lot of monitoring. And, of course, there was a monitor, of course, outside my room. And there was a doctor and a team because it's like a, a university hospital. So there's like a team outside. And whenever, Birdie's heart rate heart rate would go too low or too high or whatever, they'd come in the room. Like, they just come in. And it was so disruptive. And I would make me nervous every time they came in because I knew it meant that something wasn't okay, and what were they gonna do.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And there was something that happened the other day that I wanted to share. Like, I I watched because I was trying to get Britney's exact birth time, and I was watching the video. And it's actually hard to watch because it's just I don't know. Makes me wanna cry. Like, my partner was there trying to support me. He was beautiful through the whole thing. Just, like, right there with me the whole time. Like, I was, like, leaning on him. And and then I had my midwife had came back because, you know, at some point, I was pushing and I was on kneeling on the ground. And there was no it was just, like, with that induction, like, with the Pitocin, I just there's some it's so not natural. Like, it was just so intense, and it was so like, labor's intense. But now that I've had both, I just it wasn't a natural, like, gradual contractions. It was just like like you're just being throbbed, like, over and over. And I remember just like my midwife at one point just said the second midwife was like, I I really need to I need to know how the baby's doing. And, you know, the the thing wasn't working. It just they kept not getting, a a heartbeat. So she's like, we wanna put a one thing we can do so that we don't have to keep touching, you don't have to wear this, is they can do the into the baby's scalp.
Speaker 2
I mean, we we don't really like you moving around, so we could just screw a metal screw into your baby's head. We could just hurt your baby.
Speaker 3
Totally. It's fucking crazy. It's nuts. And at the time, Emilee, I was like, no. You know? And they didn't, of course, tell me, like, you just did. They made it sound much more. Like, it won't even hurt the baby. They won't even feel it. What? Like, you know, I'm like, really? Dude, evil. And I just and she's like, you'll have to lay down. And I that was where I was like, no. Because I was getting the surges every blah blah blah. You know? Couple every couple minutes, every minute. And it was like a tiny bit of break. And I was I was on my hands and knees or lunging either, and that was the only way that felt like like laying down was like, no. No. Of course. And she was like there was a point where they offered it and I declined. I was like, okay. We'll just have to keep doing the strap thing. And, and then and then there was a point where she offered it again. And that was when I was starting to, like, bear down and push more because I could feel I needed to push. This is more in the nighttime now. And I was like, I just I succumbed because I was so tired, and I was I was just like I think, you know, at that point, you're just so vulnerable and beaten down. And it's like anyways, so they did that, and I had to lay down, and it was excruciating because I was going you know, having surges, and they're, like, laying me down doing the thing to my baby that I didn't really want them to do.
Speaker 2
So for everyone listening, this is referred to as internal fetal monitoring. So any of you listening to this podcast and for some reason still gonna birth in the hospital, just get that get that, you know, track keep that in your head. Internal fetal monitoring is what she's referencing.
Speaker 3
So we had that, and then I yeah. I my other midwife my my main midwife came, and I did feel better when she came because I was just like all the other people I didn't know. And at least I knew her. And there was all the, you know, like, the the cleaning up the whole time, the, holding the the the warm washer, to like now I'm like, oh, I can't even imagine I had someone touching me during labor during labor. I'm I'm a Yanni. Like, no. And there were so many people there. And the the one thing I was gonna point out to you that really stuck out that I that I when I watched the video was that the doctor would come in. It was a female doctor. She would come in and there would be a few other people with her, maybe students. And there was a point where they were saying, you know, it's not looking good. The baby's heart rate, we don't like it. Like, you know, here's our options. This is what might happen. So my midwife kinda like, she kept going in and out. And the last time she went out, my midwife goes, Chrissy, if they come in again, it might mean that you have to get on the table and they might have to use forceps. And I was like, no. And I just felt my whole body be like like an animal, you know, like that, you know, fight or flight. Like, no. I'm getting my baby out. And so I was like, don't take this from me. Because the whole time, I hadn't had any you know, I didn't take any gas. I didn't take any what's the one? The main medicine that women take so they don't have to take epidurals? Yeah. Sorry. The epidural. I didn't have anything. I was determined to even in my induced state, I was determined to just have my baby without all the things. And I was like, I'd fought so hard to get to that point. But then when the doctor when the doctor left and she said, you know, they might have to vacuum or forceps, and I was just like, no. And so, of course, I'm I'm I'm in labor. I'm doing the thing. I'm pushing. I'm starting to push. And I've got one midwife behind me. My midwife's here, you know, doing all the things with the mirror and everything. And and I can feel Birdie's head. Like, I can start to feel her head. And so it's getting we're getting closer. Like, she's starting to crown. And but I'm in that panic state because I know I'm like, you know, if she if if that doctor comes back in you know? So the doctor comes in again, of course, you know, because she just can't not. And, and, you know, Bernie's heart rate had gone back down or something. And and I could feel even my mid you know, I could feel my midwife was kinda like, you know, like, leave us alone. You know, like, even she was just, like, trying to protect me in her own way even though, you know, she can't now that we're in the hospital. And the doctor came in. I remember she stood with her hands behind her back, and she was doing this and, you know, looking like, you know, like I'm in the zoo. And she's just checking me out. And I remember just feeling, like, especially even now when I look back, I'm like, I could feel that energy. That was gross.
Speaker 4
Gross.
Speaker 3
And she's like, I'm I'm you know, I'm getting I'm getting closer. She can see it. She's like, oh, it's it'd be really good to, you know, get to get the baby out now, Chrissy. And she's like and then I remember she said something. I didn't even know this until I watched the video the other day. And it was like, you can do this without me, actually. You don't even need me for this. I remember she said that. Like and and I was like I I don't I don't remember knowing if I heard it then, but when I watched the video, it was like, you don't need me. All you have to do and she says this. She goes, on the next contraction, just push as hard as you can. So she tells me. So she's literally telling me to just get you know, push as fast and hard as I can. And so as Birdie's you know, as my next contraction comes, I'm like, I'm fucking doing this. Don't you dare touch my baby. You know? And I take her words, and I take my own fight or flight. And I my girl, like, she like, I and of course, I tour. My girl came out and while she's while I'm pushing her out because I'm, like, pushing with all my might, everyone's yelling at me. Everyone's yelling. I didn't know that I should go really slow. I actually didn't know. I don't think I was ever told that. And then they were like in the video, you can hear everyone's like, breathe, Chrissy. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. Like, yelling at me. Like, it's so intense when you watch the video, which my midwife did apologize, like, straight away after. She's like, oh, I'm sorry. I was just trying to get you to slow down and but no one said that. They were just, like, yelling at me to breathe. And I was like I couldn't hear them. I was screaming and just pushing Birdie out as fast as I and, of course, she came out really fast because she was so tiny. And then, you know, I picked her up. And, yeah, it was, like, it was it was beautiful. Once she was with me and I had her on my chest, and, of course, they had to, like, come in with all the towels and all the things and do all do all the cleanup right away. And I don't know. I was holding her and just like, okay. You know, I said, we did it. We did it. But it was so intense that when she came out, like, the just people yelling at me. And and just now that I have the contrast of Cosmo and just me and my family, you know, it's just worlds of difference, worlds of difference. And no I didn't feel anything. I didn't know when she was coming down. I didn't feel because I was so intensely disturbed. And, you know, the the surges were so fast. It was just hard to even feel into my own body. Right? But we did the thing, and we yeah. They gave me the shot to get the placenta out, and I remember that moment because they like, she kind of was like, you know, it'd be good to, you know, for you to birth your placenta soon. And, of course, they You
Speaker 2
were already on Pitocin?
Speaker 3
Yes. But they I remember she gave me a shot of something, like, rep
Speaker 2
was Pitocin.
Speaker 3
So she gave me more. Yeah. And I didn't really I remember she said I didn't get asked. I remember she was like, I'm just gonna this will help to, you know, get get everything moving. And we we don't so so you don't have to wait and so there's no extra bleeding. And I just remember getting a shot in my leg and being like, oh, what just happened? Do you know? And then they moved me to the bed and did the, you know, did the the lovely massage that you wanna have right after you've just given birth, which I'm being sarcastic. Obviously, it was really painful. And, like, all these things. And then they they stitched me up, and that was interesting, because I had a tear, of course, because I pushed her out so fast. And yeah, and and then we stayed one night. And, and that was interesting. And, you know, the nurses were all no one wanted Birdie to be in the bed with me.
Speaker 2
I wanna say that it's not you didn't necessarily tear because you push so fast. I've been to plenty of of sovereign births where the mother, you know, instinctively or or whatever, doesn't really matter, when a mother decides that she is effing over it and she is gonna get this baby out, and it doesn't necessarily equal tearing, but the environment is very different where it's mother led. And Yes. Also, women tear. I mean, women tear in sovereign births. Women tear. You know? So tearing is is but but they're very different environments in which, you know, what you experienced was not a physiological tear. Right? It was, you know, it's giving birth in war. You know, people call it a hospital birth, but it's giving birth under humiliation and and, like, real true assault and and verbal abuse
Speaker 3
and stress.
Speaker 2
Oh my god. And so, you know, all of that, you know, literally literally being screamed at while you are on your back, on drugs, splayed open in front of strangers, under bright lights, on monitors. I mean, fuck. It's so hardcore. It's so, so abusive and so degrading.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I'm just so sorry that that was your first birth. It's such Yeah. Even though it's a common story, it is such a brutal initiation.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. It it is. And but it's weird. You know? It it felt like this is normal. Of course.
Speaker 2
It was okay. Normalized.
Speaker 3
Of course. Yeah. It was it was normal. It was okay. And something else that was really different in this birth, Emilee, that share I'll share that it was really, like, public. Like, all my friends kinda knew. My family knew. We were giving my Craig was giving them updates while we were while we were in that moment, which maybe for some people that's that's you know, maybe that feels good to them. But now I look back and I'm like, there was so much energy
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Going out. People knew too much too too early. Had no privacy. No. There's no privacy. I'd, like, given everything away before I even met my daughter Yeah. Which is sad. I learned so much. And I I know that, like like, there's so much I I'm like, oh, I wish I could change that. But I also I'm I'm I'm aware that there's a reason. Like, I had to go through a lot of that, and and then I needed to change for the next one. And I was really, really aware that I didn't wanna do that again Yeah. Ever. So
Speaker 2
at what point after the birth, like, what's kind of your initial take? Is it like that was awesome? I'm a badass. I'm so stoked I had a vaginal birth. Look at me. Or Yes. Like yeah.
Speaker 3
I was very, like because there was a point where I was like, you know, I did that. Like, I I felt really proud of myself. I, like, I couldn't believe I got through it. And now I look back, and I'm like, I can't believe you got through it either Totally. With how what happened. Right? Like, it's wild. But very much, yeah, I'm a badass. Like, I'm a superhero. Like, look at what I did. I didn't take any drugs. I didn't, you know
Speaker 2
You know you all did things. Right?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I took drugs. But in my mind Okay. In my mind, I was like, I was induced, but I did it still vaginally naturally. Yeah. Oh, god. Because I do feel lucky that I didn't get to that next level, you know, of c section or whatever else, forceps or vacuuming my baby out. Like, they were threatening it, and I could see we we were gonna we we we were gonna go down to the you know, we were going to the cascading. It could have happened fast. But, yeah, I feel really lucky that we didn't have to do that
Speaker 2
and that I did get to It is such a dark fucking world that women feel lucky for the abuse that they got because other women are abused worse.
Speaker 3
And I put my midwife on a really big, big pedestal. I remember writing her a review, and it was this huge review, Emilee, about everything she'd done, and she was like my savior. You know? Like, the savior thing.
Speaker 2
She's who sent you to the hospital.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it that's kind of how I felt. It took a long time for me. It took me a while to unpack.
Speaker 2
So let let's talk let's shift into that. Like, what what starts to give you those light bulb moments? When does when do you and what inspires you starting to get a different perspective on the birth experience?
Speaker 3
I think it took a really long time. It wasn't until I think I started to see when I saw my friends, I had some really close friends giving birth at home, and that felt really different. And then I started to kind of explore and unpack mine in the hospital. And, you know, they didn't have monitors. They didn't have beeping. They didn't have Pitocin until they were transferred to the hospital, one of of them. But, yeah, they didn't And
Speaker 2
they did have monitoring and they did have Pitocin.
Speaker 3
Well, they did have monitoring. Sorry. Yes. Yeah. But even amongst that, like, theirs you know, when you compared the hospital version of mine to theirs, it felt like theirs was just so much more, like, spiritual and natural, and undisturbed, which it wasn't, obviously. Now I see that. So it Emilee, honestly, probably not until I was really yeah.
Speaker 2
It's like total full of abuse. It's it was just less abusive.
Speaker 3
Yes. Exactly. And it wasn't until I was pregnant with Cosmo that I really went into I I I didn't wake up until I really, you know, had my second pregnancy come through. And then, you know, when I found you guys. And it was really one of those things too that I thought I was one and done because old, because of the age.
Speaker 2
So was the pregnancy a surprise? No. Okay.
Speaker 3
No. I called that in. We called that in, and he was he was he was coming.
Speaker 2
This is very common. You know, I work with women who get willing to address their birth trauma, and that's primarily what my coaching practice is. And what I see most often the case is it isn't until she's pregnant again. And when she's pregnant again, it's like, well, now there's kind of this obvious ticking time bomb where we're gonna have to turn some rocks over. We're gonna have to address
Speaker 3
if
Speaker 2
we're gonna do something different, and things brew before that. But there is this kind of obvious, very literal, you know, expiration date of we have to make some choices, and so what are we gonna do? So it's very, very understandable that it would come up again.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It took me a while until, yeah, he was finally he had landed, but we, yeah, I didn't think I would have another one. In fact, you know, I was one of those women who was like, I didn't know if I was gonna ever have babies. And then I had one, and I was like I remember bringing her home, and it wasn't long after that I got this strong almost like a voice. Like like
Speaker 4
and
Speaker 3
I still laugh because I think I told my partner, like, I think we're not supposed to close the shop yet. And, of course, he's going, really? This man that thought he was done with babies. Right? And then this and then he's got this woman in his life that's like, well, maybe we should have another one. We did it we did it the first time. Okay? And I yeah. I just I I I held on to that feeling, but I was so you know, I was just getting to know motherhood and being a mama. I loved it. And it was obviously challenging, but I just loved being a mama to my daughter. And it just like really transformed me, which of course, that's such a cliche thing, but it just I don't know. It really took me on this other into this other place that I never thought I'd go to. And, but it was probably when she was, I don't know, maybe when she was two ish and I was like, okay, You know? Like, I I really wanna have another baby. And I hadn't it took me quite a while. Like, I know some women get their bleed back quite quickly, but for me, I didn't. And and we we were breastfeeding for a long time. And even in that, Emilee, this is where my voice started to get I think too as you become my mother, your voice just goes really strong. Like, your intuition and your voice just you can, I think step into it in a way that you haven't before, and that happened for me? And I wanted to breastfeed for as long as possible because I also didn't know if I would get to have another baby. And I was like, I don't wanna cut this off too short. I would regret that. And I was told multiple times that in order to get my bleed back, I'd have to stop I'd have to stop breastfeeding. And this was like someone told me this, like when she was a year and they were like, you know, because of your age and because I'd gone to see someone and because of your age and because of, just, yeah, all the things, you probably should stop breastfeeding now so you can try and get your bleed back. And I was like, but like, she's just turning one. Like, it just felt too early for me. It wasn't right. It didn't feel right. So I trusted. I just listened to my intuition. Like, don't do that. And then we, we breastfed for a really long time, and she was still breastfeeding, you know, at two, which is great. And And I still hadn't got my bleed back. And, again, I kept getting the advice like, well, you probably should stop. And I just felt really like I was like, no. And I'd ask my body, like, do you think that we can fall pregnant? Or do you think that we can get our bleed back before while I'm breastfeeding? And, you know, I would hear like, yeah. You can do that. So we I did. So I got my bleed back, and we were still breastfeeding. And and that was great. And then I just my partner and I, we were just we were kind of trying, but, like, lazy trying, like, not really. Probably not having enough sex, if you know what I mean. Like, it was like we were trying. And I was, like, looking at my window and really trying to be I was more in touch with my cycle, more in touch with my body than ever, really, you know, getting more connected with nature and how it affects, like, my cycle and just it was a really beautiful time of learning. And then and then there was this weird period of time where I just could feel I was like this intensity, and I was like, I think we really need to try, I said to my partner. We really need to go for it. So it was like it was on. You know? It was like having sex pretty frequently, and it was fun. Like, it was just like, you know, like, this might be it. We could do this. And I just had, you know, I just had this really strong urgency. I don't know if it was my my son, like, going, okay. Now. And then from that week where I think we just had a lot of sex, we, at one point, we felt pregnant. And it was funny because even, like, now that I've done so much learning from you guys from Freebird Society, I didn't even take a test for a long time. Like, I didn't even really want to, I don't think, but I didn't get my bleed. And I remember we had family visiting, and they were like, you know, well, probably then you're pregnant. Right? But then then even I was going, well, maybe it's peri. Right? Maybe it's perimenopause. Maybe my cycle is just like you know? Because that was another option possibly.
Speaker 2
Like, which is Now
Speaker 3
you're forty five. I was forty yes. Forty five. Yes. Like, I think we fell pregnant right at forty four at the end of forty four, and then I turned forty five. Anyways, and, of course, I I was, like, announcing on my social media when I was forty five. I was like, forty five pregnant. Because I was so like, yeah. This is normal. Like and the amount of women that would come through my messages and all the things that were like, how'd you do it? Like, so many women are so scared. In their thirties, they're scared. You know? And they'd be like, I'm thirty five, and I don't have a partner. And I'm like, honey. Like, it you have time. You know? Like, don't don't let that anxiety like, you know, there's just so much anxiety.
Speaker 2
But what's a trip is is that that also can be a self fulfilling prophecy. Right? So Yeah. That that's where I think the deep work is is, like, your shit needs to stay open, needs to stay in the flow of what brings you joy, and be in an abundant mindset. And if you at thirty four, thirty five, thirty six, thirty seven are like, I'm a washed up hag, and I'm never gonna have anything, and I'm never gonna find anything, like, you will make that be true.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I agree with you a hundred percent. And so, yeah, I started doing like, yeah. I started to share a lot more about my journey on my platform, which was great. And I got a lot of beautiful connections happening through that with other women who were who were hopeful. You know? They they but they were being told by the medical system that it was probably too late or they'd have to go do IVF. There was a point where I was told that I should probably go go for IVF. I made an appointment. I did the I filled out paperwork. I know. Listen. I made an appointment. I filled out paperwork. I I was, like, on the phone with them, like, oh, and I think they were quite quite a big drive away from us, but it was like he was really good. And but I even knew. I knew the whole time. I was like, I don't wanna do this. I don't it's just not my journey. Like, what am I doing? And this was coming from the external noise. Right? And so there was a point where I think our appointment was coming up, and they and I woke up one morning, and I was like, no. Like, a big no in my head. And I called them, and I was like, I'd like to cancel my appointment. And they're like, okay. When we when can we reschedule you? And I was like, no. I wanna cancel it. And they're like, oh, okay. Well, are you sure you don't wanna reschedule? And I was like, no. And it felt so good. And it just but that was such a mind fuck because that was so external noise, external pressure telling me that
Speaker 2
prior to Birdie?
Speaker 3
No. No. No. No. This was
Speaker 2
after Birdie?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Woah. Yeah. Like, after you got a lot of fertile totally. Yeah. But it is funny how it still was sneaking in.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So yeah. But I said no to that. No way. And then and then, yeah, we felt pregnant. And I was I was I was sure I was pregnant, but I was also like I didn't wanna tell anybody. I wanted to say, like I was like, yeah. I'm just yeah. I haven't got my bleed. And I had a couple of close sisters, close women friends that I like, they were through the whole thing with me, all of it. Like, they were just with me the whole time. Thank God for our sisters. Hey. And, yeah, they were just like, I don't think it's perimenopause. You know? Like and I think there's just a part of me that I was so hopeful, and I really felt that it was true that I was pregnant, but I was like, what
Speaker 2
if I'm not?
Speaker 3
You know? But I didn't test for a while. I waited. I waited a while. And,
Speaker 2
And then what? At seven months?
Speaker 3
No. I didn't no. It was like I I don't know how many weeks it was, but I was a little ways in and and then I'm like, alright. I'll test. I'll test for whatever reason. And, and it wasn't I didn't know about, like I didn't understand or know about wild wild pregnancy, if that's the term. I didn't you know, that wasn't because I was still under the assumption that I would have a midwife. But this time, no way I wasn't going to the hospital. I was doing it at home. And I had a specific midwife that I wanted because my friends had had her, and she's really, you know, this beautiful woman, wise woman, respected in the community, you know, beautiful reputation, and that, you know, I knew her. I wasn't, like, I wouldn't say I was close to her or anything, but we were, like, friendly. And I one of my closest friends, she was her midwife, and I was actually there for the birth, for a lot of the birth, actually, for yeah. The part at home and then the part of the hospital. I was, like, support for that. So, I'd seen her in her element, and I was determined. I thought that
Speaker 2
was who I would have. And The woman that transferred your best friend.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. And, yeah, it seemed like the right thing to do because, again but this was before I really understood that as a woman, as a, the woman birthing that I was actually the expert. You know? And because my my background, Emilee, is that I was raised quite like, I I had a religious background, and I was a good girl for a long time. So I'm the recovering good girl in my forties.
Speaker 2
Aren't we all, sister?
Speaker 3
It's so true.
Speaker 2
But, you
Speaker 3
know, you get to a point and you're like, is it still? And my people pleasing was hard. I was a hardcore people pleaser. Like, I did I did that stuff hard, and, I was good. I was good at people pleasing, which isn't something I'm proud of. But, yeah, I was good at it. And so even then, like, you know, this midwife, she's on the pedestal, like, even more so because I was, like, thought she was really friendly, and I thought she was, like, kind of like this cool, like, spiritual hippie one. You know? And she and she like, I still, to this day, I I still think that she's a beautiful person, a beautiful woman, and we just I'll get to the part where we just weren't a match eventually. Like, it just wasn't right for me to do that path. But I did contact her early on, and I was told, you better get on to her because she's probably gonna book up. And this was really early in the pregnancy. I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. So I did that. So I booked in with her, and I knew I wanted to do it at home this time. So that was a bit of a different trajectory. And early on, when they did my blood work, because, of course, you know, I did the blood work to make sure that I was really pregnant or whatever, and, they found my oh, crap. What's it called? The pregnancy hormone. They found that that was quite it was a bit higher than they thought it should be at, like, what at what week I was at or when how far along or how early I was. And it was like the, the the thing I was told was it would be good to get a scan, and this was quite early. It would be good to get a scan because what if there's twins? And I was a little bit, like, surprised. I was like, oh, I wasn't thinking I'd do all that as much this time. Like, I knew that was one of my things was I didn't wanna get all these scans. I had so many with Bertie. I didn't wanna do that again, Emilee. I'm like, oh, man. So but I was now I was like, okay. That's something I wanna know. I wanna know if I have twins in there. Like, I was like, I I I felt that I needed to know that. And so that was that worked, and I went and there wasn't twins. It was just one baby. And that was probably, like I don't even know how early that was. Obviously, that was first trimester. And and I remember a little bit even then being surprised that my midwife encouraged it. I was like, oh, okay. I didn't think you would want me to do that. But then, you know, now I'm like, well, yeah, like, she was, you know, she's not she was in the system and she was doing the things that
Speaker 2
She's a medicalist.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so but I remember being surprised even early on like, oh, okay. We're doing that. So I did that. Everything was fine. There was one baby. There was a little bit of time there where we're like, is there two? And then I started to go through just like I'd meet with her, you know, not not not much at the beginning. And all in all, my pregnancy with Cosmo was what what I would say is boring. Like, it was beautiful. I didn't need anything. I didn't it was fine. Like, we felt good. Like, we we'd have meetings with her. She'd come to the house, you know, and and check the baby and do the the thing, the the doppler, yeah, and do that. And but the meetings were pretty, like, spread out, you know, at the beginning. So I didn't even feel and I didn't, like, get in touch with her about anything because I didn't, you know, feel like I needed to, which was so that already was different because, you know, with Birdie, I was, like, probably calling every couple days to be like, oh, is everything okay? I felt this. You know? Whereas I could feel there was a strong and this baby, man, he was when he landed, it was like I just it was just like he was he was just so here, and I was so different. And I had a much stronger connection, I think, to my own intuition and trusting, and I didn't want all of the the noise as much. And I didn't, you know, I didn't know yet. Like, I was really, you know, really trusted in my midwife. And, again, she was taking good care of us, and she would come and hang out and be really, you know, lovely with my daughter and, like, connect with the family and all the things and and and felt like more of a friendship in a way. Like, it felt like, we were getting connected in that way, which felt good at the time. But then I I don't know exactly when Emilee, but it was definitely second trimester. And we started watching home birth videos, me and my daughter. And we watched, a free birth from a woman that I follow on on social media, on Instagram. And I was like, oh, she has her birth on on on the Internet, on YouTube. I wanna watch that. And I knew I wanted Birdie my daughter to be there. Gentle? It was. Does she ring all the people?
Speaker 2
You're just in Australia, I feel like.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. True.
Speaker 2
You're bound to come across it.
Speaker 3
Her birth and her story is so beautiful. So I was like, yeah. We watched we watched her birth multiple times, a couple of them. And my daughter loved it, and I knew I wanted her to be there and she wanted to be there. So I was like, well, this is good. You know? She's getting an idea of, a home birth. But and and it was funny when I first started watching it, I was like, oh, there's no one, like, looking for the, you know, the person that's helping her. There was no one there. Maybe there was a family member or something, but no medical person. And I remember being like, oh, right. Like, she's one of those. Because I was so separate from that still in my mind. And that's what really blew me away when I so then I realized somehow I think she might have posted or some somebody posted maybe she posted about on the podcast, and I was like, oh, there's a whole podcast about free birth. And, again, still, there was, like, a negative connotation because, of course, there was a story that had been told about a woman in this community that had passed away. And that was brought with, lots of negativity around free birth. And there was a lot of things that no one knew. And there was a lot of things that were spoken about, especially I think by midwives, you know, and and that came up for us as well, that story. And there was a lot of fear in it. A lot of fear for people. Anyways, and
Speaker 2
And do you know do you know the facts on that woman's death?
Speaker 3
I can't say that I know a hundred percent, but I don't I feel that, the what I what I what I understand of it is that she even in the hospital, if she'd had hospital birth, she would have died.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That was my understanding as well. Yeah.
Speaker 3
That her health condition
Speaker 2
was not related to birth itself.
Speaker 3
No. But I know I was told that it was related to that she free birthed, of course, by medical Right.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But unless unless the cause of death was something to do with birth Yeah. Which my understanding was it's not it wasn't. She died postpartum. Right? Yes.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So there was that. So there was that already. You know that when there's that story or that something that comes out and then everyone you know, the news gets out. Anyways So intense. So I, in my mind, probably had more of like that, oh, free birth, like that negative connotation around it.
Speaker 2
Whereas no one's covering how many women are murdered in the system and who die on the operating table.
Speaker 3
Yeah. No. No one's talking about that. There's no awareness around any of that, but there's a lot of awareness that free birth is, you know, dangerous. Well, dangerous. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yep. True. And so that's what I had in my head, Emilee. And then I found your podcast, and I listened to Jinty's story, I think. And even I remember listening, and I'm like, but I'm not like this. I I'm not like these women. And it really didn't have to do with my age, I don't think. It was more just like, I don't I didn't have that, whatever that was, to be a freer, which is so funny. Now I laugh. I'm like, what? It's just like being a woman who's gonna give birth. And, I my mind
Speaker 2
Or maybe, like, thinking for yourself a little bit.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know? Like, women do it's an important thing to point out because women other themselves from women's rebirth so significantly, and it is kind of interesting to think on, like, what is the thing you make up? I'm speaking to our listeners. Like, what is the thing if you're othering yourself from us? What what is the thing you make up that you don't have that I have or Chrissy has? And just, like, identify what that thing is you're making up. And is it really true you don't have that? You know? Yeah. It's interesting.
Speaker 3
It is interesting because I still don't know what I what I was thinking, but I also obviously had a midwife. But and I I started listening to, like, one or two stories, and I'm like, okay. That's good. And then I just listened to them every morning because I would walk every morning. I was really fit in my pregnancy. I was so healthy. I was just like, you know, just feeling so good. I didn't feel like I really needed any assistance. I like, so every day, I just started to devour the stories, and I was so inspired and so excited for these beautiful stories. And I'd wanna hear every single one and all the different things that the women went through, and I was just in awe. And there was a different podcast that I used to listen to when I was listening to it as with Birdie, and I just I didn't even wanna touch it. I was like, ugh. No. Yeah. It was like I was starting to see. You know? I was starting to see. And so that's but that's scary too. Because once you start to pull it back, you can't put it back over your eyes. Like and especially me, the way that I made up, like, once I know something and once there's something that I'm moving towards, I just I don't know how people do it. I just I can't. I can't even look back. And I could feel that in myself, and I was like, oh, what's going on here? But I would still, you know, have these, you know, meetings with my midwife. But I could feel myself wanting less and less to meet with her. Like, I could feel myself putting the bound like, a distant distance between us, which was really surprising. I'm like, oh, I thought I would be chatting with her more, calling her more, like, getting more, you know, connected with her before the birth and but but I could feel it was going the opposite. I was like, not messaging, never calling, rescheduling, or canceling visits, because I just felt really good. And I was like, I don't yeah. Do I need to do I need to meet with you right now? What are we gonna talk about? And I didn't feel like baby need to be checked because baby I always felt him moving. I felt really connected to the baby. So the stories were very powerful for me, Emilee. And that's what stories are. They're medicine. Hey. That's that's the power of sharing, and that's why I'm so grateful to you and all the women that have come on. Like, if I hadn't heard these stories, I probably would end up in the hospital again. You know? So, I I did have another scan, the one scan where maybe they check I can't remember. The one where they check, like I think they check just like that the baby is has all its limbs or whatever whatever that is. I think I did say yes to that one. I think there was reluctance, though. I think there was a part of me that wanted to be that woman that was like, you know, the wild pregnancy women. I didn't I didn't I didn't get on that boat, to be honest. I think because I was already a little bit in with my midwife, and I was kind of like that one, I kind of had in my mind. I would go to that scan. I would do that. But then after that, I just I think things really changed and something shifted for me. And especially, like, the way that I work as, like, a manifesting generator in human design is, like, when I go down a rabbit hole, I go hard. Like, in my design, I just I can't not like just scratch. I don't scratch surface. I'm like, I'm burrowing my whole body into this experience. And so that's what happened with the free birth. And I started to watch the videos and I started to watch all the videos on your page. Like, I literally went back to, like, probably your the first one you ever posted. At night, I would just watch them because I was like, this is possible. I started chatting to my partner about it. You know? So there became there came a time in my second trimester, like, later in second trimester, that I started to really start dipping my toe in, like, is this something I want? And I'd make jokes to my midwife. Like, she'd come and I'd be like and we start talking about what I want for the birth. And I'd be like, well, I'll probably just go out in the garden by myself, and I'll just do my thing. And we kinda laugh, but I wasn't joking. I was serious. Right? Like, that was my truth coming through. It was like, that's it was that was the Chrissy that was like, no. You you can do this. You know, you're joking, but and I'd say that to my partner. I'd be like, I don't know. I might just go do it in the garden. I might just go out because we have this beautiful garden. I was like, I might just go outside and and just be, you know, do the thing by myself. And he'd be like, okay. Well, Well, what do you do you want us to just stay in the house? And I'm like, yeah. So so I was having these conversations. Right? It was coming out of me. And I would there was a couple of women friends that were really, really, really help holding me. And specifically one who is actually doing, like, birth worker training. She she helped me so hard in these decisions. Like, she was there when I was just like, I don't know if I can do this. You know? And she just was like, just help me. Like, you you know, just gave me the, like, to her, like, the perspective from above. And it was really powerful to have those women around me that I could just be so honest with. And, and and because my good girl and my people pleaser, she would, like, stick her head up every once in a while and be like, don't don't don't go too far there. Like, you've got your midwife. You've got your thing. You don't wanna wreck that relationship. What's that gonna you know, like, all these silly things when you like you're like, this is your birth. Like, really? You're worried about this, like, like, displeasing this person, but that's that's the people pleaser that's, like, so toxic, and that energy was still there. So at one point, it gets to the part where I kind of say to her, after listening to enough podcasts, and watching enough videos, I think, I kind of I just say, what would happen if I just don't call you? You know? Like and I kinda was trying I was even, like, googling. I'm like, do you have to call you anyway? Like, things like right? Like, I know. But because I, you know, employed her, I'm like, how does it work? Like, what if I just decide and this is where that whole it's just such a mind fuck. Right? Like, I'd given some power away already, but I didn't realize it. I thought I still had it. So I was taken aback. And I just I just said, like, what happens if I, you know, what if I just decide that I wanna do this on my own? And that's when it got really a bit tricky. Yeah. It was really intense this period, Emilee, because it was so it was very dramatic in a way. What did she say? Well, I think she she already had, like, quite a negative opinion about free birth on social media, because she felt I think what I understood is that she felt that there's all these women that were jumping into free birth that shouldn't that didn't really know what they were getting into because they're being influenced by the free birth movement on social media.
Speaker 2
That's so fucking condescending.
Speaker 3
And that was yeah. She was she didn't
Speaker 2
Like, show show your misogyny more Yeah. To infantilize women to that degree to a pregnant woman who that she's working with. Like, wow.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was this was where I got really like, it got really tricky for me because I I didn't wanna displease her. I didn't wanna, like, knock away our friendship and, like, just throw it away. And, I looked up to her, and I was trying to do it in a way that I guess wasn't, you know, gonna rock the boat too much, but, obviously, what was I thinking? And so we had these phone conversations, and I remember she was just like, you know, I think she ended up being like you know, she would say things like and even my partner, you know, he'd be like, well, what if she's just outside? You know? And that there was this idea that, like, she could be there, but not be in the room. And she would say that. Like, I could be here, but, you know, you could just be in the room, and and and if you need me, I could come in, but I could be there in case you need anything. And I think I knew, my gut knew, like, no, that doesn't it's not that's not the thing. Like, it's the same. Even if you're not in the room, you're in my home. Like, your energy is here, and I'm I'm accommodating for that. And that's the thing. That was the word. I would accommodate for anyone that would come to my birth. I knew that about myself. I was really aware. Even if I'd done all this work, but I just could feel. And Honestly,
Speaker 2
peep people women who know they're strong people pleasers are some of the best candidates, I think, for free birthing because that's the only way that they cannot the only way. Feel like they're hosting and accommodating, and it's very hard for some women to speak up and say no. And, you know, if if you're, like, a beast, maybe you can handle the system. Like, you know, maybe, probably not, but maybe, but most women aren't. Most women are quite accommodating and quite nervous about people's approval, and and I know a lot of women that that's actually what inspires their free birth because they know that about themselves.
Speaker 3
Yes. I I absolutely agree. I think one of, like, when I look back at my life and all the things that I've come to to really listen to myself and own my own wisdom, I reckon Cosmo's birth, it was like this it was like everything I'd been working towards. You know? It's like I was working up to do to make that decision Mhmm. For myself, and it just took me forty five years.
Speaker 2
Hey. At least it happened. For a lot of people, it never even happens. Exactly. Yeah. You start to, you know, in in good faith, explore this idea or want to explore this idea with your medical midwife, and she's getting all over it. She's not listening. She's she's giving you other ideas of how she could still be included. Like, what what what happens next?
Speaker 3
So there's, like, a bit of not long, but there's a bit of period of time there where it's like I think I I kind of, like, not let go of the idea, but I kind of leave it alone for a bit just because I'm like, I feel like it was causing a lot of anxiety. And, like, I I I knew that I wanted to move in that direction, but I also I didn't wanna displease her. So after we have a couple conversations, you know, she she kinda leaves it alone and I leave it alone. It's like we don't talk about it, but then I don't see her for a little while because I don't have a like, there wasn't a home visit planned. And of course, I'm still listening to free birth, you know, stories. I think I buy that's when I buy the free birth course. What's it called? The guide to free everything something about everything free birth. Sorry.
Speaker 2
The complete guide to free birth.
Speaker 3
There you go. Let's get the name right, people. So I buy that, and I'm like, here we go. You know? And it's the best thing. If anyone is listening and they're thinking about it, just buy it. If you're thinking about free birth, buy it. Like, it just it brings so it's so beautiful. It was beautiful for my partner. Like, because for him, he was he would say things like, well, you know, what you know, he was nervous, of course. And, also, another thing I wanna say is, like, I don't think your partner has to be a hundred percent on board for you to do the thing because it really in the end, ultimately, it is about the mother and what she desires for her birth. Does it help to have your partner on board? Yeah. It's much more helpful, but it you know? And my partner was always really supportive of me, but he would definitely he was devil's advocate. He'd always ask me different questions. This this this this, you know? And I would honestly, a lot of my stuff wasn't logical. It was just like I've got feeling. I knew. You know? I just knew my my inner wisdom was like, this is where you're supposed to go. But it was hard to always logically explain that. And then there was a point, also where my partner would say things like, well, if you don't want her there, do you wanna just cancel her services? And I'm like, no. I can't do that because postpartum, I might need her. You know? Like, I'm my mind, still Emilee at this point, this is probably into the third trimester right now where I'm like, well, I still want the postpartum support. You know? And even now I'm like, well, why would I want that if I didn't want her at my birth? But at the time, it felt logical. Right? That was my mind going, no. No. You you don't wanna cancel that because you'll still need her. Like, you'll still need help. And I get that I felt that way. And but it was cute because my partner would kinda be like, well, why don't we just why don't you just tell her? Like, you don't and I was like, no, like, that's dramatic. And that's what it felt. I was like, that's gonna cause drama, and I didn't want to. I didn't wanna rock the boat.
Speaker 2
It's such a red flag. That is such a red flag Yeah. That you knew
Speaker 3
I didn't feel
Speaker 2
Yeah. That it was good. I mean, for all of you birth workers listening, like, you better be damn sure that your clients feel comfortable and safe enough with you that they can disengage from your services, and it would be all good. Yeah. You know? I mean, come on. And it just speaks to the hierarchy and and the, inappropriate authority that medical midwives walk with and that women, you know, actively give away and engage in. I mean, god. Like, what a toxic dynamic, you know, like, truly, like, toxic that you were afraid to speak your truth to someone that you hired that worked for you.
Speaker 3
Yes. Exactly. And I think that was the part that would get a bit lost. Like, oh, I I was the one that signed up, you know, for her to be my support. So, of course, I could be the one to say, I don't want that anymore. But I think the consequences of that looked too scary, for my people pleasing Chrissy self. But my
Speaker 2
Well and she was not cool about it.
Speaker 3
No. She Even if so that's alleged.
Speaker 2
Right. It's not just it's not just your people pleasing. Your people pleasing might be how this got, you know, carried on and part of why you even hired her to begin with totally. Like, it co created this, but but also the fact that she was anything other than whatever you want, I want, girlfriend. Yeah. Like, that's the only appropriate response here if anyone's wondering what would it look like if I didn't call you. You send me a picture of that baby when you've got them. Like, I am rooting for you any single way you want me. And, of course, you can do this on your own. Of course, I'd be there in a heartbeat. Whatever way you wanna do this, I mean, that that is an ethical midwife.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. There wasn't too much of that. Like, there would be there would be sometimes maybe little things she'd say that sounded like maybe, you know, oh, okay. Maybe I could do that. But, you know, at the end of the day, it wouldn't have been right for me anyways. I needed to make the hard choice. I mean, I needed to walk through that door, like, to really do that, you know, for myself the right way. The way that not like in a sneaky because it felt sneaky, like, oh, I'll just not tell her. Like, no. Just anyways. You're forty five.
Speaker 2
Let's own our shit. Come on.
Speaker 3
Grow up, woman. Put on the Go off. Do the thing.
Speaker 2
For real.
Speaker 3
So, yeah, I, I walked through a lot of, like, back and forth with friends. Like, two of my closest girlfriends, I would talk about a lot of things with, which is really helpful, just having them soundboard it and you know? But I knew the whole time. And I would do, like, the I would lay down and, like, do the pendulum and ask the baby, do you want a midwife? Do you wanna just be us? And I I I knew. I knew that Cosmo was like, mama, we gotta do this with just us. Like, he was telling me, and I could feel it. But I was I just yeah. I just didn't know how to make that big step. And so I was watching so we were watching the free birth course, and that was really helpful for my partner. So if any women are listening and their, you know, their partners are struggling with it, I think having that knowledge, that wisdom from you and Yolanda was huge for Craig. Like, he he really appreciated the videos going through, what's it called? Variations of normal, all the different things. It was really it was really insightful, and I learned more about my own body in those videos than I've ever learned from any midwife or anyone. Like, I learned about the placenta. I learned all these things. It was wild. I was like, I'm literally doing this. It was like, you know, third trimester getting closer, getting closer, and I'm like, I'm like devouring it. I'm like hardcore studying about my body and about birth. And it was amazing. So empowering, empowering for my partner as well. And then I'll just I'll just forward to the part where she comes for a visit. My midwife comes for a visit. This is after we've had those phone conversations, not too not probably not too long after. So I'm I'm I and at this point, Emilee, I'll say I'm, I guess, I'm forty or forty one ish weeks, you know, based on the guest date. And so, you know, I'm going past the, the time, the allotted time, in the system that's like comfortable for people, but I felt good. I was like, I had no concerns. I wasn't worried. I felt so good in my body. I felt the baby. Like, we were fine. And she came, and it was a really hard conversation. It was a really like, I cried pretty much the whole time, because I was already, like, nervous, and I was already, like I already knew that it was gonna be hard because but she came in and her normal, like, warmth wasn't there. You know? And, like, he's usually she'd be, like, warm and and we'd you know, she'd I don't know. It was just her energy had changed, which now I look back and I'm like, I get it. She changed because she could feel that I didn't need her anymore and that I was taking this other path that she didn't really love. And, I get it. Like, you know, I'd hired her to do this thing, and I'm basically not wanting that. You know? And And
Speaker 2
for someone with low maturity, right, and low emotional intelligence, that would be the response. Yeah. Like, you're you're more compassionate than I am, but, like, I'm sorry. Like, this is your service, and it's to serve and be supportive of mothers and and their, like, autonomy and home birth and all this. Like and you can't be, like, professional and mature and loving and supportive? Like, no. Yeah. Come on.
Speaker 3
Yeah. The conversation, what ended up happening was, you know, she kind of was like, so, you know, how are you feeling? And what do you you know, we kind of asked like how things are going, how I was feeling. And I was like, I'm good. I feel really good. And yeah. And then, you know, there was there was lots of little things that, of course, I didn't you know, I'm I'm not gonna remember all of it, but, like, there was little things throughout the pregnancy where, like, you know, if I was doing a lot of ex like, if I had creativity flowing through and I was like, oh, I've got this thing coming through. I created this program called Wild Heart Woman while I was pregnant with Cosmo. And and I remember her being like, oh, well, you know, your main focus should be the baby. And I remember being a little bit like, well, actually, if I have energy, creative energy, it should go wherever I want it to. You know? Like Weird. And I remember her commenting on things, like, especially if I was doing a lot of, like because I did, like, big walks because I felt good. And also, I was like, I wanna be strong, you know, for my birth. Sick. Yeah. And she would it would kinda be like, oh, maybe we should, you know, take that down. You know? Maybe start doing something a bit gentler, you know, as as I was getting further on into my pregnancy. And I remember just being like No. No. I I know it feels good for me. Oh my god. Those kinds of things that would come up. You know? And and and I could feel myself even going, oh, actually, I do trust myself more. Like, she doesn't know. You know? She's she's there to support me, but she she doesn't need to advise me on how to use my energy or whatever. So in this conversation, she says something like, so do you wanna know your options? And this is where I remember be I remember this very vividly because this is where things went different. And I just immediately went, no. Because I could feel you know, it was like I think it was my options because I was getting to forty two weeks, right, in a few days.
Speaker 4
She was
Speaker 3
like, do you know your options? And I went, no. And she I just immediately could feel her go
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Like a bit pissed and, you know, kinda like, what what do you you know? Anyways, and that's when she that's when the conversation took a big turn where I could feel she was almost like, you know, just it went hard and she was a bit angry and, like, not maybe not showing anger, but just, like, really stern, like, really stern. Like, Chrissy, you hired me as your midwife. You know? I've you you've given me so much to think about. Like, she was, you know, she was actually saying, you know, you've had me, you know, really, like, basically having to process all these things because I'm, you know, trying to go this other way. And she's like, I'm, you know, questioning things, and I'm, you know, I'm I'm just, you know, I was obviously triggered some things, obviously. And and then she's kind of like, but I know that I am a midwife, and I am here to do this work, and I serve women. And she was kind of like, this is my no. Even if I was not she's like, this isn't about my what's it called that they have? My license? This isn't about my license. This is just about my spiritual work as a midwife and something around, like, even if she didn't have a, you know, a license or whatever, she would still advise all these things. She would still do these things. It was like this so I was like, okay. Well because I think she was like maybe it was brought up that, oh, it would be a concern for her if I'm free birth or something. I don't know. For her job or whatever. And she kinda said to me, like, you're using me more as like it's like, you know, I'm a doula, but I'm not. I'm a midwife. Like, I have so much knowledge. I have so much wisdom. I've been to all these births. And so she was kind of like saying all this stuff. But when she did say that, I was like, oh. It actually made me go, oh, maybe I am using her in a different way than, you know, what I originally signed up, obviously. Well, she what we agreed upon.
Speaker 2
Percy, she wants to be in charge.
Speaker 3
This is
Speaker 2
what she's saying. That's what that whole speech was. You're treating me as if we're equals. Oh, honey. That's what you pay a doula for. A midwife is in charge. A midwife tells you what to do. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And for some reason, you you
Speaker 2
seem to have forgotten that. That's what she's saying. Oh my god. It's so condescending. I cannot handle it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It it was. And that's probably why I was I had a lot of tears too because I was, like, really, like yeah. I could feel it wasn't right for me. And, I remember Then what happened? She had brought the birthing pool and the medicine. What's the medicine I use? I don't know. Like, the the It drives me about vials. Like, this was, this was not this visit, but a visit before where she brought the birth pool. What I remember Emilee having this moment of, like, I don't feel excited about it. I was gonna be excited, and I wasn't. I was like, do I want that? I don't even know if I want that. And then she brought something for maybe if I'm bleeding, and she had to keep it in my fridge, some sort of medicine. And I remember not liking that I had it there. I was like, oh, I don't I don't really want this, you know, in my fridge. But I just had She
Speaker 2
brought you pharmaceuticals to inject into your body after you gave birth and had you keep it in your fridge. That's crazy. Wow. Okay. Prepared. Oh my god. Uh-huh.
Speaker 3
Because I was getting close.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you're totally out of alignment. It's coming to a head.
Speaker 3
So we so we have the conversation. I I you know, she's like, you know, forty two weeks. I you know, she was basically saying, these are your options. Because I ended up saying, okay. Tell me my options. Because at that point, I was like, alright. Fine. We're in this. What whatever. And it was like to get a scan. And I knew I didn't wanna scan. I didn't need a scan. Like, we were good. Baby was gonna come whenever baby wanted. Like, it was, you know, it was good. But she was like, you know and she gave me examples of women that were, like, also natural and they ended up getting scans and it was a really good thing for them. I don't know. Oh my god. She and because I said I didn't want one, she's like, well, I'll send you all the things, and then you just I just need you to read through some stuff and then sign it. And I remember being like, oh, why? Like, sign what? Sign that I that I'm not getting a scan maybe? And then she wanted to make an appointment for forty two exactly the forty two week mark so she could come and check that we were okay. So I did that. I made that appointment in my calendar, and it was kind of like we ended it like we were all good. Like, it was better. And I remember being, like, so confused because I didn't feel better. I felt worse. I was crying. I didn't sleep that night, Emilee. In the morning, I went for a big walk, and I knew. I I was like, you can't. It's time. And I don't know what made me finally just do it. And then I I called her up. I think I said to my partner, I gotta do this. And he's like, okay. I support you. And then I called her up, and I said, hey. I think I this is what I said. I think you're right. I'm treating you as a doula, and I hired you as my midwife, and that's not fair to you. I, you know, I think I I I said a few things and she goes, are you are you wanting to cancel care? That's what she said. And I said, yes. And she's like, okay. Cool. You can just send me an email. And I and she said, and is this for post postpartum as well? And it was funny. In the moment, I immediately went, yes. I wanna cancel for postpartum. Like, I just then my body went, yes. Let's let's cancel. And so we did that, and that was really hard. But I got off the phone and I was like I just was like this huge weight. It was like, you know, and it lifted. And then she came, picked up her medicine, picked up the pool. You know? We had a hug, but it was, yeah, it was I think I think in that conversation where she was kind of you know, that big conversation we'd had in person before I canceled, she had said to me, do you know anything? Like, she'd asked me, like, do you know what you're getting into? Like, do you have you done any like, what you know? And I and I actually, that's when I said to her. I was like, yeah. Actually, I did buy a course all about free birth, and I've been learning a lot. You know? Because yeah. I I I am I'm doing Do you even
Speaker 2
do you even know anything? Yeah. Oh my
Speaker 3
god. It was like it it was an interesting question now that I look back. I'm like, well, I know my body, and my baby knows how to come out, so we're good. But, yes, I did buy a course. And I've been diving in, and I've learned more from it than anyone else. You know? And I know my body.
Speaker 2
Love the testimonial, and also none of you women need to do shit in order to allow Yes. A baby to come out. But if you don't feel that way and you do wanna do something, take the course.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Totally. And that that's what I wanna make clear too is, like, I could because when I listen to stories like some women, they didn't, yeah, they didn't have they didn't learn. They didn't study. They just let their body do what it's meant to do.
Speaker 2
You know what it really is is it it's it's how much deprogramming do you need and are you up for? And I have known plenty of women who live off the grid, barefoot, and have no medical consciousness programming in their brains, and they they watch the moon, and and that's that's that's their brain their pregnancy, you know, and and they don't have any need or desire to get into the intellectual. But for most of us, that's not most of us, and for most of us, we aren't that. Even though Yes. You know you know, and I appreciate your story because you're a yoga girl. You live on a farm. Like, there's all these things, but but but so what? We still have a lot of deprogramming to do, and it's it's are you gonna do it? You know? And so the the complete guide to free birth is one really epic resource to help accelerate that deprogramming. You know? People get all weird about it, and they're like, well, that's all stuff I could have found on the Internet. It's like, totally.
Speaker 3
If you
Speaker 2
wanted if you wanted to spend twenty years attending births and collecting research and pontificating on these concepts, of course, you could find everything you need. But if you'd like the fast track deprogramming program, that's the shit that FBS offers. You know? Do you need it? Well, maybe. Because if you're gonna sabotage your own birth because you don't know what's normal, then then we're here to help you with that.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. And it's it's all packed into one little, you know, well, big, big package, and that's beautiful. Like, yeah, you could Google stuff, but you're not gonna find it like what you guys have done. No. And it was, I guess, I would say to any women listening, like for me, it was it was a lot for my partner as well. I think for him, it was really helpful to listen and to learn, and he didn't even, like, watch all of it. It was just a few of the videos of the things that he was a bit, you know, concerned or, like, just wondered about. Yeah. I think that was one of the reasons that it was really powerful for us as a couple. Okay. So let's get to so I canceled my midwife, on a Wednesday. And even my partner had said, I think the baby is waiting for you to do what you need to do. And not shitting you, I went into labor on Friday morning. So it was literally like I had one day where I didn't have a midwife, and then I went into labor. And it was beautiful because I went into labor naturally, which I didn't get to do the first time. And we, I walked every morning like I'd said, and I was walking around the farm. And often, I'd drive myself to a really beautiful spot, but today, I was like, I need to stay on the farm for some reason. And while I was walking, I started to get some sensations. And at one point, I was like, oh, I can't walk through these. Right? So then, yeah, I I could feel things were starting, but I didn't wanna get too excited or get my partner too excited. But I went back home, and I was like, I think there's things happening. And so he went out and got us coffees and something to eat, and then we just I was just, like, hanging out with my daughter, and, like, every so often, I tried to breathe through it, but I had to, like, kind of stop talking to her just like you know, I could talk, but it was just like I couldn't move around. And so they were coming, but, like, slowly. And, man, the gradual of natural labor, like, was so different to the induction labor of, like, do do do. So it was really I really appreciated that about it. And And so it was just kind of like I spent the day, just laying down, resting, knowing that I needed to just hydrate and rest if this is happening today. So I really took care of myself. My partner took our daughter and kinda got out of the house, and they went and ran errands to different shops. And then, yeah, I just kept having surges, like, every so often. And I remember I was messaging with a couple of my closest friends, and it was weird, but I was like, I'm not gonna tell them. Like, no. I just I I wanted to I I everything I wanna I knew I wanted to keep it so close. And it was so weird for me, but I was like, I could feel, no. Don't tell anybody. Just your partner. Just Birdie and my partner. So, yeah, all day just chilling with myself. They come home sometimes, check on me, and then they go out again and play or whatever. And then there was a point in the afternoon. They were out, and I was laying on the bed, and it was about, I think, almost five, I remember, five PM. And I heard, like, I had a surge, and then I heard, like, a big pop. And I was like, oh, what's that sound? And it was a little bit wet in my underwear, but not, like, gushing because, you know, like, you imagine, like, all this water, but it was just a little bit. And I went to the toilet. I'm like, maybe it wasn't. But I heard the pop, so it must have been. It was. And I told my partner, I was like, hey. I think my water just broke maybe. I heard a big loud sound. So they they were they stayed out for a bit. And then finally, when they came back, they it was picking up. You know? The surges were closer. They were a bit more intense. I was laying on my side on the bed, and I remember being like, do I wanna get up? Do I wanna do do I wanna do anything movement? But I just was happy on the bed. And I remember I'd watched Yolanda's one of her births, and she was on the bed a lot. I remember being like, oh, you can be on the bed. Like
Speaker 2
You can do whatever you want.
Speaker 3
You can do as you want.
Speaker 0
So, yeah,
Speaker 3
that was it. Exactly. And I was like, what do I wanna do? I'm like, I'm here. I'm on my side. It's happy. I'm happy. So I stayed on the bed the whole time. There was one time I tried to get out, and it didn't work. So I stayed on the bed. They came in and out. My partner started to bring in, like, towels and put down, like, puppy pads and get things set up and brought me coconut water. I had my little playlist. And as the surges got stronger and my daughter was there, it was really beautiful. One of my favorite moments was she came in. They brought me a bowl because I was starting to have to vomit a bit every every once in a while. She was, like, patting my head, and she sat with me. She's like, mama, let's om. We need to om together. It was it's so beautiful. My partner caught it on video too, and it was like, you know, I was having a surge. So I'm, like, having the surge, and then she's like, ohm. And we're ohming together. It was really like, she was amazing. Like, I I'm so happy she was there. Like, she was amazing. So then they would they would left me again, and then I just started to get really, you know, in in in inward. Like, just go inward. And it was what was so beautiful about it was I found that when I was by myself, it was the most potent and the most beautiful, Emilee. And when they come in, I would love being checked on, and he'd help me get my coconut water or clean up any anything that's happening on the bed with me. Yeah. He was such a good cleaner. He was like, tuk tuk tuk tuk tuk. I was like, you're amazing. And then, they'd leave, and I'd be like, okay. And it was just, like, so perfect. So perfect by myself. So like, I just felt so connected to God. And I remember part of my thing that I would say is open. Stay open. I'm opening like a flower. That was kind of like a mantra for me. And as the surges got more intense and I could feel him moving down, that was the most potent part was, like, I can I can never feel birdie moving? I felt him, like, moving down through my pelvis. And every time I'd feel like I wanna resist it, I'd be like, I'm open. I'm open. I'm opening. And so I did. Just kept opening. And then, they came back in again at one point, and he was gonna try to get Birdie down for bed, but she kept getting woken up because I was I was getting so loud. Right? I was making my sounds, and they were in another room. So she'd come in, and there's, like, pictures of her laying down on the because she's so tired, laying on the floor, but, like, wanting to be near me. It was really beautiful. He set up a little altar for me with my one of my goddesses and a candle. So I was just staring at the candle a lot, and I kinda, like, hold on to the bedding and grip onto it when I'd have a surge. And then there was a point where when he was gone, I started to feel like, okay. I need to I need to push. Like, I started to feel the bearing down, and it was so natural. It was just like, no one's coaching me. I'm just like, I'm doing the thing. My body's doing it, and I could feel like, oh, here we go. And there was a, like, way more, like, poo coming out. Like, all the things are happening. It was it felt way messier than the hospital, but that makes sense, obviously, because they were, like, cleaning you up the whole time. And my partner is gone for
Speaker 2
a while. Like, disposing everything right into a bag that's under you while you're on
Speaker 3
your back.
Speaker 2
You know? Yes.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So this was just, like, I was in it, you know, all natural. And I couldn't really move at this point too much because it was just so intense, and I felt more comfortable laying still. Finally, I get to the point where I'm pushing and I can feel like I'm like, oh, I feel like his head's getting closer. And my partner is not in there, and I'm like, do I do this by myself? And then I'm like, I think it could be really helpful to have my partner here and clean me up. So, anyways, I'm yelling for him. This part's funny. I'm yelling for him because I think he fell asleep. Bless his heart. And and I'm like, love, love, like, yelling. And finally, he comes in, and that's when it gets, like, it's intense. And he's like, woah. And he can see like, he starts to see the cosmos crown, and his head's there. And he's like and I'm and he's he gets his camera, and he's, like, videoing because it's just he's like, oh my god. Like, it's just like I've opened like a flower. It's amazing. Right? Like, this huge head sitting in my yanny. And I'm just, like felt so calm. And I have my hand on his head. And I at at one point, you know, I'm I'm feeling like, is he actually coming out? And I'm not even pushing. And there's this weird thing that happens, and I even wrote down the time. At ten thirty five, he's crowning, and I don't do anything. I'm just I'm just laying there, and he's starting to slide out on his own. He's just sliding out. And, like, there's no pushing. It's so peaceful. My partner is, like when he's videoing, you can hear him going. He's, like, breathing for me. And he, yeah, he comes his head starts to just come out, but nothing else is really happening. Like, I'm not getting a contraction, and I start to sing to him. Like, that this was where it got psychedelic. Like, I'm singing to Cosmo. And I'm just like, we love you, baby. We love you. You can come. We love you. And I remember looking at my partner, and I remember saying, like, it's okay. Like, I felt so like, it just felt all I can say is psychedelic because it was like, I was just like I was I was God, but I was one with God. And I was like, thank you God. Like, I was, like, in this moment and I was capturing it in my mind. Right? And so at one point, I'm like, I think I should move. And I felt in my body that I wanted to move. So I get on my hands and knees and his head's, like, all the way out. And I remember feeling like, I think he's okay. Like, you kind of almost hear a little sputtering, like his head was, like, he was out. And, and I knew he was fine because he's connected to the placenta, blah blah blah. And at one point, I'm like, should I push? And my partner was really beautiful. He just he goes, no. No. You just wait. You just you're fine. You just wait. Because it's quite a while before the next surge. And that's when I went, oh. And so then I immediately like, my body just tells me go into a lunge. So I stick my leg out there and I go into a lunge and then he I get my surge and he just comes onto the bed. My partner hands like, catches him and then hands him through to me. And I I grab him, put him up on my chest, and I'm just like this feeling of, like, we did it. Like, I just felt so proud. And I had asked baby while he was in the womb, like, could he just could he cry? Like, not, you know, a little while before she goes out. And he does, like, he you can kind of hear him breathing, and then he just does this huge cry. And I just, like, laugh so loud because I'm just so happy and so joyful. And I hold him to my chest and my partner yeah. I check he's a boy and my partner, like, he's got the video camera there like me, like, just having this moment. And it was so powerful, Emilee, because it was just I just felt so empowered in myself. I was like, I knew we could do it. And I remember saying that, we did it. I knew we could do it. And so we have that moment together, and we kind of have this time where it's just the three of us. And then Birdie wakes up and comes in again, when we're about to cut not cut the cord. Sorry. We're burning the cord. So we had the placenta. I'd I'd obviously done, given birth to the placenta, and then Birdie comes in. And we, and we have the candle ready, and we have everything ready. And it's and it's and the placenta is in the board in the in the bowl. And she's, like, so excited. She's like, oh, my brother's here. Like, emotional. She's even crying a little bit. Like, I wanna cry. It was so beautiful, and it was just lovely to then we did the burning together of the court, and that was really beautiful, really powerful. And that was, yeah, just everything that I wanted. It was like us as a family. No other people, no other opinions, nothing else, like, to, you know, to accommodate. No one to accommodate. Just my energy and the baby and my family. And that was really, really powerful. And then with the placenta birth, I did just this this is it kind of takes an interesting turn. But with my placenta, I birthed it, and I did it in a lunge. And in hindsight, I wish I would have just laid down. So I did it kind of like kneeling in a lunge, and it took a little while. Right? I could feel surges, but, like, it didn't come right away. So I reckon I was kind of kneeling up for almost, like, twenty minutes while holding my baby, and it finally did come out really easily. Like, I it just plopped out. But then I started to fade because I'd been up for so long, and I think I just I hadn't eaten yet. I hadn't you know, all the things. So I start to kind of, like, fade onto the bed. Like, I'm, like, leaning and then basically pass out. And my partner, of course, is concerned and but then I come to you again pretty quickly. Get me on the bed, get some food into me, and I'm fine. Right? I'm fine. And then, and we do all the burning of the cord, all the connection, the beautiful amazingness. And then I'm like, I need to pee. And I I'm determined to stand up to go to the bathroom and go to the bathroom. And now I remember even learning in your in the course, like, it's best if you can stay horizontal. Like, it's best to, you know, if you need to, like, stay horizontal, rest. And after having a little bit of a a slump over or pass out, I should have probably stayed on my back. I didn't. And I was determined to go in the toilet. So, yeah, in the bathroom, he was kind of holding me, and I kind of fainted again. And that was concerning for him because at that point, it was, like, the second time. And then he said it took a little while for me to come back, and I know I would have had just low blood pressure. Like, I know and I know I didn't lose extra blood. I we saw the placenta was good. There wasn't clots. There wasn't anything stuck in there. Like, I felt really, really, like, I knew that it was just I probably was silly, and I should've stayed laying down because my blood pressure. And, so he'd called triple zero, which is our, like, nine one one for us. And he asked me a couple times, like, should I call them? But because I wasn't really and even this I don't remember this part. You know? Like, I don't remember him asking me. So, obviously, I was out. And I I appreciate that he did because he was in a position now where he had me, the baby, and Birdie, my daughter, and he's kinda like, okay. Is she okay? You know? And I came to, and I'm like, oh, no. I'm okay. And, of course, I was like, yeah. I'm fine. I'm fine because I didn't you know? And the ambulance people did come, and they were, of course, like, they were they were really lovely, actually. I was laying horizontal in the bathroom. They they kind of helped, you know, just to check me over. I was fine. I think my blood pressure, yes, was it it wasn't quite good. Like, it was a bit low, hence why I shouldn't have probably been standing. And, and and, yeah, they they ended up taking me to the hospital. And this part was actually really to be honest, it was really healing because I went back to the same place where I had BERTIE. I declined anything I didn't want. They just gave me the fluids, basically. They didn't do anything else. They asked if I wanted to stitch, and I was like, nah, as a little tiny tear. And I they declined that. They they tried to check a few things, and I just said, no. I'm good. I'm good. And it was really empowering for me because I didn't feel scared. I didn't feel like I need to please them. I was, like, in my power, and and then we just we went home, and everything was fine. And they even looked at the placenta, and they're like, this is a healthy placenta. I'm like, I know. So it was really like and I appreciate my partner wanting the support at that time. So I don't there's like we've had lots of discussions around that because I think he felt like he was trying not to, like, let me down by calling, you know, because he knew I wanted to just be at home. But I also really appreciate that he did what he felt was right to support me at the time and for him to feel like I, you know, I was safe or whatever. And we've had lots of discussions about that, and I do appreciate that. And, actually, for me going back, it was there was something about it that was just like, you know, and then even the nurses were like, wow. You you so you did this by yourself at home. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. I think that's what women do when they free birth, but I didn't say the word free birth at the hospital. So, yeah, that was kind of you know, we went back home and then everything was really beautiful. And I was I was I was just it it it it it was really I was in awe of the fact that we did what we did and how psychedelic it was. I don't think I really understood when women would talk about psychedelic stuff in birth. I'd be like, what are they even talking about? And to have that happen, the only thing I found challenging was, like, coming back to, like, just the norm like, almost like the normal life of, like, you know, all the things you do with a baby. Poop, feed, do all the things. And I felt myself still wanting to stay in that that crazy psychedelic portal that I had opened. And then I just found ways to try and integrate that, you know, into the everyday life. But, yeah, it was the most amazing and empowering experience of my entire life. And I'm it for anyone listening, it's okay to change your mind at the very last minute like I did. Yeah. Two days before he came, I it was when I it was the right thing for me. I I for whatever reason, I needed to wait, you know, until that moment. And that was when I I knew that I could make that choice.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's okay to change your mind. It's okay to do whatever you want. That's right.
Speaker 3
And it was yeah. It was, I'm just grateful that you guys that you started this podcast, Emilee. Because if, yeah, if I hadn't heard these stories, I would have probably taken that same path, you know, and I would have ended back in the hospital to have my baby. And that's I'm so, and that's I'm so yeah. I'm just grateful. I'm grateful that I did listen to the stories and that I listened to my own intuition. And, you know, for anyone in their forties, you have every right to have babies and have a free birth. Like, there's no age limit, as you said. And If you didn't get pregnant, you can give birth.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Beautiful.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Well, thank you so much for your time and all your stories. And, yeah, it was a pleasure to listen to them all.
Speaker 3
Oh, thank you for having me. It was really I was really honored to be able to come on. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below, and, of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of Sovereign Birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and of course, our annual women's gathering, the matriarch rising festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, the lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear.
Speaker 0
Wild
Speaker 4
woman, she still lives in inside. Wild woman, from you, I will not hide. They could not bend your spirit away, so please teach me your way. I'm ready to learn from you
