Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'll go into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom since I've left my roots back home.
Speaker 2
Hello, women. Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. I am sharing a conversation today that I had with a mentor of mine, the epic elder midwife, sister morning star. This episode is all about the first mother, meaning the placenta, and we dive deep into dialogue about the supreme intelligence of the placenta. Sister shares absolutely critical information that is almost impossible to find anywhere else. She will cover some protective guideposts to know about and many simple yet mysterious ways of the third stage of birth that are absolutely critical to our knowledge base as women. We are registering now for our springtime retreat that we are calling the midwife within. Sister Morningstar herself is coming here to the festival grounds to facilitate a powerful five night retreat for women interested in learning the art of village midwifery. This has been a dream of mine for many years, and I'm just over the moon to see this come into being. And if this call is in your heart, please join us. You can learn all the details at matriarch rising festival dot com slash midwife within. It's open to all women. It's a total all inclusive so that all you have to do is get to the Atlanta airport, and we will handle the rest. This is a deep discovery retreat intended to give you the wisdom to bring back to your community and share it with your sisters. You'll learn how to facilitate sisters' village prenatals. You'll receive her full day training on newborn transition and first breaths. There's workshops on independent midwifery, how to understand the holistic lens of blood loss, and just so much more. And, it's not just about learning. This is about the actual magic that happens when women come together under the new moon with an elder and sit around the fire, sing under the stars, and drop deeply into our life's work. It's going to be intimate and unforgettable. Grab a spot at matriarch rising festival dot com slash midwife within. Enrollment will close the end of the year. Alright. Let's get into this episode. Enjoy. Welcome. Welcome, sister Morningstar.
Speaker 3
Good day. I've left my holy land to be with you here today. It's an honor to be with you.
Speaker 2
It's an honor to have you leave to just get all your full your full attention and focus. And this time, we actually actually get to be on video, which is so fun because last time and in the past, we've always had to just do it over audio. So I get to see your beautiful face and, yeah, get to feel even more connected to you as we get into this big topic.
Speaker 3
I want to say hello to everyone else, you know, whoever will be out there. It's so important to me because you're who I'm really talking to. I'm talking with Emilee today, but the purpose of us talking, we do this often, but the purpose in this way may live in my holy land coming here is to be with you. So please get yourself a cup of tea or, settle yourself in so that we can go so deep in this such important subject, so dear to my heart, so important. The first month, that's that's our subject today. Right?
Speaker 2
Mhmm. I had a flash visual when you just said the first mother of of where I where I buried my first placenta in Hawaii and the earthworms as I was digging through and the tears that were falling and just what magic we all get to to access when we are in relationship with our placentas.
Speaker 3
Okay. So maybe we'll go back and forth, using the word placenta for people who think about that. Though I'm I must say I I was also me thinking thousands of stories in Russia with some, psychologists who were pregnant. They were gonna be birthing, and it and so very, very learned people, and they were totally unaware that they would give birth twice. Woah. It would be giving birth to a baby, and then they would also be giving birth to what they called the afterbirth. They had kind of heard afterbirth, but they didn't know what that meant, that it that it's actually a fetal organ, that it's a a being, so to say. So yes. Well, let's
Speaker 2
start yeah. Let's start there. What is the placenta, and what happens after a baby is born? And and you as someone who has taught and traveled all over the world, And this is this opportunity for us to really name what you know to be true that so many women don't yet know.
Speaker 3
Okay. Let's see where to begin. So I'll just say again that we might I might use the words placenta or first mother, and then in some cultures, they call it the sibling. Same organ. Either way, whatever we want to call it, it exists, and it is made by the baby. So it's a fetal organ. And people so often think of it, like, that the mother made it, but she didn't. The baby makes it. It's it belongs to a baby or part of this whole baby world. And so when I, I think the thing I want to speak about so much today is that it's a birth. The birth of the placenta is a birth. And we too much in this modern world and all over, we think about birth of the baby. And all the prenatal time or people watching movies or videos or stories, all their focus and attention is on how I'm going to orgasmically birth or birth in pain or whatever extremes people want to go to. Either way, how am I gonna get my baby out? Right? What's it gonna take for me to enjoy or get through or whatever, but it's all about how I'm gonna get my baby out. Baby's birth. And then there's this very small or, like, if you look at birth plans, there'll be pages and pages about what all the things that are gonna affect how I'm gonna get my baby here and how you're gonna treat me and treat my baby. But what about, the first mother? So you asked the question, what happens between birth and baby? So we get this baby, and people sometimes even worry a little too much about that, what my baby could live or die or whatever. I always say, well, of course, anything is possible. You drove here today in a car. You could live or die driving car, but more than likely, you have eighteen years to focus and take good care raising this child. This is your reality, your most common reality. But okay. I actually want to pause there and say something that's kind of a little bit heavy on my heart, which is please do not idealize me. Do not idealize me or birth or anything. Just be real. Real life is so magical and so powerful. And me as an individual, I'm getting to celebrate my birthday pretty soon. And is, as my one of my divine daughters says, mother, we're spiritual beings on an evolutionary path. So I'm changing. I'm growing. There are things I've done or handled in my own birth from my first baby to my third baby. Each time, I was like, wow. How I want to birth my next baby. Right? I'm I'm moving. I'm not a robot. I'm real. I'm changing. I'm learning, and I hope that for you. This is this is not a static, teaching or time that we're sharing right now. This is we're in the stream. This is what we're talking about today. Tune in in another year, in another ten years, and see, wow, what more have we come to know in this mystical, magical experience that allows us to embrace more and more miracles, more and more magical things that the common way misses. It disemplates them. So don't idealize me, please, or idealize birth. Stay real with it and notice that it's more amazing than what you were imagining. Like, it is more powerful. And so I want to add the birth of the placenta into that experience. So it's not just, as Michelle O'Don would say, the cocktail of hormones, they're on their big high. When this baby comes out, the moment, the the very moment that this baby's, little crown, you could even say her crown. Well, if it's her bump, that's her crown, right, for that moment. However, the moment that she comes even in water, but especially air, there's a cataclysmic change and communication that's starting to happen. We could even go back a little bit and think about how did birth get started? How did my body and baby they fight about it all the time in science. Right? Did baby start the labor, and did mother start the labor? We don't know. They're talking about it in a very serious way, and then they decide one day or maybe it's the stars. You know? We just don't know many things. It's the same thing with the birth of the first mother. She is in direct communication with this baby even more closely, we can imagine, than the the the the birthing mother who's got her forebrain and she's thinking and doing whatever. Hopefully, not so much in that moment. Right? We talk so much about the halo. I like to call it a three foot halo that's around the mother, and nobody's in it. Just mother and baby. It is the more they have this protected sacred space, the more there's no distraction out outside disturbances interrupting this millions of years of intelligence. It's it's exquisite intelligence. We can't even break it down to understand it all. It's so, you know, in her way, woven and ascending. Like, it's a moving intelligence, not static intelligence. So baby, she starts to be born even if she comes quickly, she still has to come head, you know? Right? Then her little eyes, maybe she's really looking around. It's so exciting. Her nose. It doesn't have to be in a hurry. Right? And but maybe she's baby number twenty, and she just like, oh, I'm ready. Just come on out. But just as all of that starts to fill this new world, there is an information that's starting to go back and flood from her. She's wandering about things. Forgive me for me talking about, like, she's a real person, but she is. I'm just saying she until I'm proven wrong. We'll just say she. Through her own physiology and then now through the cord, she is starting to give information back. Of course, breath and blood flow and all of that. But this intelligence through hormonal exchange and things we can't name is starting to say something's changing. That which was tied and closed has space. That which was feeling warm is changing temperature. That which had sound a certain way, sounds changing. All the senses, everything that has to do with senses, and we only have one place where all five senses exist, and that's the head. In the head, all five senses are present. And usually, that's make like a baby and head out. Right? Like, usually, head is what's coming. And all those senses are starting to do their thing, and they're giving information back to the first mother. Okay. So, thank you for your patience with me. I know I'm a storyteller, and I'm thinking of hundred stories right now. But just this placenta, which is usually about the size, we say, of a pie plate, you know, of of little babies, bigger babies, whatever. There it is. This amazing surface is on the edge of the uterus that was the size of a bear and now size of a watermelon. But the same two organs, like, so, like, purposeful that had a purpose, and they're they're living their unique purpose in that moment. And if we have twenty babies, they only get to do it twenty times, their whole life long. Think of all the things we do in our life over and over and over, but birth, it just couple of times, really. And they each have this purpose that they're getting to they're like, it's now. Like, this is the moment of millions of years of DNA that said, if it if it ever comes about that you're pregnant and you're giving birth and you need to have a baby, and then, of course, you can't have a baby if you have a placenta. It's now. So this whole surface area adhered beautifully to another surface area exactly that size, like not going further out or further in. So we're not talking about pathology. We're not talking about unusual, occurrences that you see in museums. We're talking about woman after woman, day after day, night after night, generation after generation from the dawn of time. These two doing their thing exactly together. And too often, we think, oh, it's the mother that's, her blood pressure and this and that and putting pumping as if a heart is a pump. It's not a pump. So any right? Moving moving her life force, not just blood, her life force, her her love, her nutrition, her energy, you know, in into this placenta that's moving into baby. But actually, it's not that. It's it's like Sheila Kitzinger would say, sperm don't enter an egg. The egg is drawing them. They can't help themselves. She's calling them in. It's like that. The baby, she's she's calling for more later milk, but right now, life force. I'm gonna say life force instead of blood. Only I only need it. I'm baby now. I only need it for a certain time because I'm actually now I'm being born. Something I didn't even know was gonna happen to me. But I'm being born. And, oh my gosh, now something else happening to me. And so is she as she does this, maybe she maybe she even takes a little breath right right here. Right? Just little she might even start to take a little breath, or maybe she's waiting until she's all the way out, or or maybe she's got a mother that's a a fire sign and just all excited, and maybe she's got a mother that's a a Virgo and quieter and just barely touching her. Who knows? Interaction, environment interacting, primary birthing mother interacting, a great need for oxygen starting to occur. But the the cord in normal birth, we're just or wild birth, we'll say, the cord, she's still just attached to this to this surface. And so baby is going to start to play play with taking a breath. She doesn't need a breath right that second because she's still getting the same breath she was always getting. She's still getting it, but it's changing. Like instantaneously, maybe slow, maybe fast, but it's changing. And as it changes, that's the dance that's happening. Baby gonna start to take a little bit more breath or air, And every time she does, she needs a little bit less from the first mother. We're gonna call her the first mother. She needs a little bit less. And the first mother is thinking because she's intelligent. So I'm gonna call her thinking or knowing, but she's thinking because she's going, oh, everybody hold on. Don't do anything. Don't anybody move. Like, these millions of little capillaries, right, that are, you know, adherent to this surface area, they they must not let go yet. Baby still needs us. Mhmm. K. She doesn't need us so much. Oh, no. She's somebody is like, no. She still needs us. Don't do anything yet. Until finally, there's some feeling between the two of, like, okay. I'm I'm doing it. I'm doing it. I'm I'm breathing more. I'm breathing more. She's breathing. She needs us less. She needs us less. I'm breathing more. She needs us less. Until all of a sudden, at some instantaneous moment, everybody together on the edge of their capillary seat, saying, Ready, set, jump. Like, let go. Let go. Like like, have you ever swum, like, in a creek where you're holding grapevines? Everybody holding a grapevine, Tanner, us kids, crazy wild kids, like all of us. And the goal was always, right, can we swing out and everybody let go at the same time, at the same moment? We're all gonna let go. And then we're all gonna splash together. Right? But it's that critical. It's that amazing that they all agree to let go at the same moment. And when they do, that entire surface area that is it's it's mind boggling how large it really is on a we don't wanna lose that much surface area anywhere else. Right? Please don't take my blood, supply, my life force, that much area at all one moment. And yet they do. They they make an agreement. Ready? It said, let go. And they let go all at once and detach. So, and the moment they do that, then the uterus, she starts to shrink and close. So the, yeah, the blood supplies are two different blood supplies. Right? So one blood supply is saying, I'm letting go. Other blood supply is saying, they let go. They let go. And everybody, agreeing and releasing. And why are they releasing? Two reasons. One, first mother is saying we're done. We did our great job. We we honoring this baby is now functioning. And the other set, we did our great job. We passed on this great everything to the next generation. Now we must protect mother, the birthing mother. And so we're going to withhold our life force now and return it back into her and keeps shrinking and getting smaller and smaller. It's so amazing. So but placenta hasn't been born yet. All that happens in the in the veiled, in in hidden world, in the magical world, just like baby was growing in the hidden magical world. And she is born, and we're just like, oh my gosh. She's got my eyes. She's so cute. But we didn't know yet. And then now we get to see. And same for the first mother, like, we need to receive her with reverence for all the what she she did. So between birth of baby, and we don't even have birth of placenta yet, but that's some of the things starting to happen while we're we're just even waiting to see if she's gonna be born, this first mother. Okay. I should get a drink of water and oh, that was so exciting.
Speaker 2
I got this image of you at the festival, like, putting on a play, like, having a little puppet show, you know, stand where you could actually act out this little thing. It would be so amazing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It it's, it's so real. It's it's so real. And so so, get a drink and then
Speaker 2
So that is the placenta coming off of the uterine wall. And then what happens next?
Speaker 3
Okay. So I'll I'll just say that for that to happen, even though it's happened from the dawn of time, my deer just had another baby in the woods last night, mammals all over. For that to happen, what I just said, it takes exactly what it takes for birth. Privacy, quietness. Not quietness from the mother. She don't need to be quiet. But not, just like if you're around little animals birthing, they they they do the best if nobody sees anything because it is such a delicate interplay of intelligence that needs to work that anything that is disrupting, disturbing, distracting, it's considered danger by biology. And this is a biological move, a deeply biological we could call it spiritual too, because it's mystical and mysterious. So I can call it spirit. I I'm a nun. I can call anything spiritual. I want to, but but it's deeply biological. And so you can't have an orgasm or poop or do anything that's biological if you get disturbed and distracted and, you know, all the all the bad d's. So I'll just say that even though that what I described is happening and it's beautiful, on the outside environment, it's just critical because that's when other other things can start to happen. Yeah. Just so that's what we want. Let's see. So that three foot halo, you know, a mother, she's in love with her baby. She's in an altered state of consciousness. We are, I can say. We are. I remember it so well. And then, the kind of, like, signs or clues that we have that this hidden thing is happened or even yeah. Happening. Happened. Like a baby coming. It's like, oh, blessed show. We call it blessed show, pink show. Different things or little bit of contraction, this or that. We're like, oh, maybe baby's gonna come today. It's been forty four weeks. May it come today. Right? But still, we get a little bit of signs. So same. The the baby taking breaths and starting to wiggle and move is one of our first signs, like I said, because that's already giving information back. And then if if the cord starts to lengthen, like, it was a certain length or maybe shorter, and then now oh, wow. I've got more room. My my oh, I can get my baby all the way up here. Okay. Oh, cord lengthened. Well, then placenta changed. Right? Because it was attached. It is attached to that. So cord lengthening or little, a little bit more extra blood, separation blood. Not not a faucet, not gushes, just a little separation, bleeding that that does its thing and stops. It's like, oh, something happened. Something changed. We're back. Or the mother might feel another contraction. She's like, oh my god. Is it twins? Kind of. Kind of. Right? Kind of. Yep. You're gonna birth again. It can be so emotional for some women. It can be so emotional. It's a beautiful thing to me to to witness women who have so much emotion with releasing their, placenta, you know, with releasing their their sibling to their baby or their first mother, whatever they call it. It's like, wow. Now I'm all on. Like, thank you for doing all that work for her, and now it's me. So the other the other interesting thing, if there's concealed, like, you know, you there's not you don't really see. Maybe you do see some blood or not. But if baby was quiet, like, she took her breaths, maybe she even made her sounds. It's not the same as crying. Like, a baby isn't crying. She's talking. And later, we find out what cry is. Cry is a different thing that babies do. But she's talking, but then she gets quiet. She's just looking around, and she's, integrating her. She came from a different starship, and she finds herself now in this new starship with these new people. And the only person that's really that comforting is mother. She's got the right smell, the right sound, the right the right everything. She here's who she chose. And, of course, maybe there's some siblings or a partner. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. But still, mothers is everything. But maybe she got quiet, and then all of a sudden she lets out another big sound, this baby. That's another sign. Oh, because she needed more oxygen. She was getting oxygen a little bit less and less and less, but a little bit still from the placenta. And now all of a sudden, the first mother is like, okay. She's good to go. Let's let go. And they let go, and then the baby's like, what happened? Like, wow. Now I gotta take a deeper breath and bigger breath. So little extra sound or cry from a baby is another. There's just so many beautiful little subtle indications and, even trailing membranes. Right? Maybe maybe some of the membranes start start coming a little bit more and a little bit more. Oh, I get it. Just see it now. Just so. But to receive this with reverence, I think that's the the thing I want to say right now is that the birth of the placenta is a birth. So if we would receive baby with, like, love and reference, and she's gonna be a part of our family, then just knowing that that next birth, it's it's just as big. It's just as big for baby to let go of, for mother to let go of, for the person to herself for all we know. She's like was a sentient being for a while. And and she's now, finished with her her life her life journey. So to receive her with reverence, some people do that with, like, a a pottery bowl or a sacred bowl that they've, have have ready for to receive the placenta, or maybe it's in the water. I'm sure she loves water. Right? Whatever. It it it don't doesn't have to be made up. It it just has to be here. Deep respect for this amazing, not just being, organ and being, but the journey that she made from from part of that cellular division and beginning. Remember, baby made her. So she was made out of tiny, almost nothing, grew herself in a way to completely take care of a whole another human being. And then in just right perfect timing, let go to do no harm to the biological mother, and then she's given her life back. So to receive her with reverence, I think, moment of gratitude. And then from there, of course, we can have lots of fun with her. But
Speaker 2
Yes. I think maybe if you could just speak a little bit further into the placenta actually coming out just to keep telling that story. And then after that, I have a couple questions.
Speaker 3
Okay. You're right. I I got I I got us clued in to Yeah. Her her separating. I got us clued into that. So we have our clues, but she hasn't been born yet. You're right. She's she's coming. Yes. And if she's the first if she's the very first, placenta of this mother or if she's if this mother has had a baby, but then, went a decade and new partner and new baby, she's like the first time to be born just like baby would be. Or if this mother had previous baby or babies, but by knife, and the placenta also, those are her her ancestor placentas were, born by, you know, the the wrong hole, we should say, that that, taken taken rather than birthed, then all of those situations would put us right back into this moment where we are, where this placenta is going to be born for the first time through, through the same portal doors that baby came through. So two portal doors. Right? She must come through the cervix, and then she must come through the oni. So always two portal doors that baby and placenta must pass through. If if it has been a little bit of while, a little bit of time, then if the baby, was born, came through, then it the cervix could close back a little bit. Right? Not not completely close, but it's gonna close back just like, turtleneck on a baby. We get the the toddler through the turtleneck. Yeah. We stretch it out, but then it goes back a little bit. So the placenta can sometimes need to dilate or open up the first portal door, the cervix, just like baby did. Of course, not as much. She's only about two and a half pounds. She doesn't have any bony structure, so not quite the same, but she still has to dilate that. She still has to get through the cervix, the portal door. And then from there, make the journey even though we say in our song, it's just a tiny trip. Right? Just a little bit of a tiny trip, but it can be a big, like, long journey to get to the, to the out the outer portal door. All of these all of this journey is just so sacred. It's just such a sacred journey. And the birthing mother, she's now a little bit distracted. She's got two children, so to speak. She's got her baby. And then she's got this next birth to do. I think that's why I'm, laboriously this morning speaking about the importance of this birth because more disruptions can start to happen from the time baby is born to birth of placenta because people forget that it's a birth and that the placenta must make this journey. So the more, even if mother got herself distracted, she was in her halo and just got herself distracted, something will call her back like the contractions. And, she might wanna be in a more upright position even if she kind of birthed. Who knows how she birthed? So many thousand of ways except for standing on our head. Other than that, a million ways, three sixty. But often, you know, gravity helps baby be born, but baby's got some different momentum behind her. So Santa doesn't have that. The the uterus is contracting, but she can't really push out a soft two and a half pounder, you know. So so upright position and gravity and bearing down a little bit. But, usually babies still connected. Right? I mean, of course. I guess some people do cut a cord. That would be odd, but it could happen. It could happen. Either way, there's still gonna be cord and placenta. So usually, it just is that, straightforward. Let me just say that, you know, hands, being on knees or or or squatting, so often the placenta is just right there. Yeah. She's just right there. She's already kind of come through all the way or halfway through the the first portal door, the cervix, and she's just right there. And there's really it's like the lower uterine segment. It doesn't have any contracting, muscles. So there's no manna pushing that's gonna change anything. It's just right there ready to come out. And if it was if it's animals, you know, they, especially our primate siblings, our cousins and whatever you wanna call them, I hope I'm not offending anybody. It it is not my intention to offend anyone, but I do get excited, and I like words. So I I'm could possibly use a word that doesn't suit you well, that fit well with your world, view. But they they usually will just take hold of their their cord or or and their bay baby. And then just they're they're not pulling on their placenta. They're not, pulling their on their cord. They're guiding. They're just guiding this thing that's between their legs hanging halfway in and halfway out, and they're just guiding it on out. It just slides right on out because it's already detached and it's already down there and it's already letting go. And the nice thing about if you've got a hold of your own cord or or yes? Then you can feel if something doesn't if it's pulling back. Like, you can feel if it's if it's not quite right. If somebody else is is, got a hold of it and I'm not saying that can always be a bad thing. There's hardly anything that's always a bad thing, but it it's so important to only use a wrist or something, not not an elbow. If you're if the mother's like, I got my baby. I can't help me. But it just usually slide right on out because it was already it was already there anyway. I could also say, please join us, Emilee and I, if we ever have a retreat because it's one of my favorite subjects. So if you if you ever wanna do that.
Speaker 2
Yes. Not if ever. We are having one. There I just posted a, I'll hold it up to the screen to show you. A woman submitted her story, lives somewhere in, I think, maybe Brazil. I can't remember, but you'll love this. Look at this picture. Wait. I I hid my self view. One second. Let me put it back on. Where am I? Show self view. Okay. Look at this.
Speaker 3
Uh-huh. I love it. Isn't that so great? Yes. I have seen
Speaker 2
baby and
Speaker 3
Yes. Because I have so many of those pictures, and it's just so powerful. I think if I ever, my next life, if I come back to this planet and have another baby, that's, each baby, I was like, oh, okay. Now next time I'm gonna do this. And that's what I would do is hold both of them. It's because it's just so beautiful. So you add a few questions.
Speaker 2
Yes. So okay. What I'm thinking of is how, you know, that that that so many mothers, if they have their first birth in the medical system, they're going to almost guaranteed have their placenta taken out. They won't birth their placenta. Right? They will they will take it out. And so I found in the free birthing world, that often the most healing part of a woman's free birth might not even be the birth of the baby, but it will be the birth of the placenta and rewriting the story that she was able to do it, that she didn't hemorrhage and die. You know, all these these dark stories that are told to women to justify the abuse that they receive. And so there's so much and I don't mean this to sound, you know, mean. I don't know another word. There's just so much ignorance about the placenta. And, and that lack of knowledge is really weaponized against women to justify so much in the system. You and I know this, you know, so, so well. And so bringing it to what you just shared, what I see frequently when women are birthing without wise women is they'll see something like or sorry. They'll see something like, trailing membranes or a clot, and they will make up that it is a retained placenta. And very often, I see women use this part, the birth of the first mother. This is the dramatic part of the birth. This is the part when they transfer when they think that something is wrong. Or even when they think the placenta won't come at all. And I just am curious to have you speak on that. The last thing I'll add there is I also know how surprised many women first time birthing their their placentas, how surprised many women report they are at how much effort it took. And so one one track that happens in this, you know, home birth outside the medical system world is that a woman will birth her baby and then the placenta doesn't come. She, the mother, has no idea how to she doesn't even know that she might need to to cough or pull and sing and chant and get on the toilet and release her bladder. She doesn't know. No one's told her. Right? And so then she thinks that she has retained placenta and goes to the hospital for brutal, brutal retrieval. And so part of my intention with this this conversation with you is to help close that gap for women so that they can know what to do. And so that they make up less stories about, you know, the drama of it. And so, yeah, I'd love to hear just whatever you may have to say about placentas that don't come particularly easy. What about when they take longer? What are real things to do and not do? I think people would really love to hear you speak on that.
Speaker 3
Well, I I'm happy to share what I can. I will say humbly that, yeah, emergencies happen. They happen driving cars and hopefully, we recognize, like, if something is is, you know, just I I think the difference that you and I are noticing is fear and lack of understanding of just a normal process. Yeah. So that's why I'm just sort of leaving pathology out of it. The actually, maybe I'll just start with pathology because I have a wonderful story, a friend, Carol, and she had baby and and supposedly had an accreta. And then next baby and and supposedly accreta. And next baby supposedly. We it was absolutely as you describe. With that baby that I was helping her with by the way, we did use hydrastis. Homeopathic hydrastis prenatally is is the homeopathic that we used. But she gave birth in a bathtub to a baby. Okay. It was not that big a deal to her. She's like, I've done this three times. She gave birth to her placenta and she was over the moon. I mean, she was just like over the moon, so much so that she said, hand me the phone. And she called that hospital doctor or whatever, and she said, don't ever tell a woman that she cannot birth her placenta because I just did. I'm just hung up. You know? It was on a recording so that it wasn't just him that got it. And I've helped several several women around the world use who had supposedly, like, who how how would we ever really know? But they've quote, these these horrendous, trajectories, not just the facts of a past, but that in the future, you will always do this and do that and scaring people. When when when they plan to have another baby, you know, they plan to do this again. I I I will mention Hydrastis because it it's worked for several people. But so if the biggest safeguard for, the birth of a placenta is that interventions or interruptions lead to interventions. So making sure that things stay as whatever you felt like helped you get your baby out, whatever you felt like helped you get your baby out. Maybe it was sitting on a toilet. Maybe it was I don't know what. Whatever you thought helped you get your baby out at home, you know, definitely privacy and, you know, gathering your energy back to yourself. Those are the aspects you're going to need again. So if everybody has rushed in to see the new baby, you might have to clear the room, you know, like, get people out of it. Yeah. So I'm just gonna it's it's the biggest interruption that I watch is that people get excited about baby. The the attention goes to baby. Everybody forgets placenta.
Speaker 2
And they they all get on their phones and start FaceTiming their moms and their mother in laws. And so they turn the lights on so that you can see the baby in the FaceTime. And now we have bright lights, focus on the baby, phones on, classic scenario of the age right now.
Speaker 3
Well and all of that would have completely interrupted the birth of a baby.
Speaker 2
Of course. Could you imagine? If it
Speaker 3
was the baby that hadn't quite been born yet, but we did all of that. And and and we sent out word of, like, in in one minute, the baby's going to be born. And then it's like, okay. The next day, and everybody's like, what about that baby? Because you can't do that kind of thing to a biological creature. So all of that, if you did do it, it has to just you've you've got to walk backwards. You've got to, like, start stepping backwards and getting privacy, low lights. If you've been hydrating, then you gotta figure out how you're gonna pee or you know what? In the old timers, we we never gave fluids, you know, after a baby was born. You know, a a sip maybe out of a straw, we started feeding people if they if they wanted some food. Because you until until we have the birth of the first mother, we're not finished with birth. You're still in the middle of birthing. That it's it's a mindset. You gotta know you're not done with birth. In in prenatal village, I'll have people tell me their ideal birth, and they'll describe it. It's gorgeous all about the baby. Not a word about the birth of the placenta. Amen. Because then I say, well, what about your placenta? Because you're not finished with birth until you birth the placenta. We could even say until baby's nursing or dah dah dah dah dah. But physically, absolutely, until you birth the the placenta, you haven't finished birth. So all the things that, that allow us to birth a baby or have to come back into the room. They have to come back into the space. You mentioned toilet. It's again, if it's what helped you get your baby out and yeah. All of these things. Let's let's see. I'm gonna say, getting focused. Mhmm. A calm mind and getting determined. How many of us most of us, again, even the mothers I've helped that was baby number twenty one, before she actually gives birth, she gets focused. Like, I'm birthing a bait. Like, this baby is coming out. Enough. Enough of the playlist. Enough of the back rubs. Like, Warrior Woman. And it's that energy of, like, I'm birthing my placenta. Word medicine is powerful for somebody to just say she's coming. She's coming. Because really right? We saw all the signs. So she's coming and it's got it it's got to get, exciting actually, but focused and determined. I think erroneous things like seeing a clot and thinking that they birthed part of their placenta, that they that they now have a partial abruption and a partial, like not even knowing the difference between what a clot and a piece of tissue look like. You know, that that can, again, I think elicit fear, like, make us afraid. On the other hand, a clot is okay. Well, the placenta separating. Right? I mean, it's one of those good signs of, like, placenta separating. Yeah. And I think not being at all hesitant or, timid about about getting upright. Toilets are upright in my opinion, but getting upright, getting determined, and even just eve holding baby in one hand if if the cord's still attached and just using a gauze or cloth or towel or whatever because because cords are slippery. So just
Speaker 2
I think women need to hear, you know, that that you're not gonna hurt yourself. What
Speaker 3
you just said, the the key the important word is you. If you're the one that's bringing and I use the word guiding because you're not pulling, you're guiding. It's already wanting to come out.
Speaker 2
Sometimes you're pulling. I definitely I yanked out my last one, like, so primal. So it was so uncomfortable. I was I was not gonna be able to relax till it was out. And I just hooked my finger around my cord and just went get out and pulled it out. And it was amazing. And it felt so, it felt so good to know that, like I said, that I wasn't going to hurt myself. It was it was correct for me to follow, you know, what what what felt very instinctual. There was no real thought about it.
Speaker 3
Right. Well, when I hear your words and just watch what you just did, my my, guess is that your placenta was still partly behind the cervix as well. So you're you're like but the cue the the important word is you. Because if that placenta wasn't ready and if it was still at adherent to the wall, then Yeah. You wouldn't have kept what you're calling pulling. I'm gonna call guiding because you you you didn't pull your placenta off the wall and out of your body because that sound that you made was a warrior triumphant a warrior, a triumphant, like, I did this, and I'm doing this. Right? That's not the sound that happens when, you know, those of us who've worked many places, see someone pull a placenta off the wall, and those sounds are not the same. And and if it's you, then you can feel. It's just coming. Do you see what I'm saying? You're you're still pulling, but it was coming. You wouldn't have kept pulling if it wasn't coming. It's, like, coming, and there it is. And did it take some force and effort? And
Speaker 2
Yeah. This one did. The the last one was SUNY. I kept trying, and it wasn't ready, wasn't ready. And and I it was fine. And and it wasn't till about two and half hours. And I just alternated nursing and trying, you know, on in a squat. And I think in retrospect, it was fine how it all was. And I think if I had known that I could have pulled a bit more, you know, and I think that's what's happening with a lot of women who are birthing without wise women who you know, they're out on the edge. They don't know. They've never done this before. And and I and I want women to know, again, what I said, you're not gonna hurt yourself. So it it might need some some power. Yeah. And and it might not. But when it does need some power and some oomph and even a cough or a pull, you're not going to hurt yourself. And there's something really healing, I think, in in a woman going through that. And there was for me just being like, get it out, you know. And it did feel tribal. It did feel primal. And also it was me a hundred percent knowing it was okay to be there and to be fierce about it, like the like the lion mess, you know. And that I would there's no way I would hurt myself.
Speaker 3
Right. And maybe also from having waited the two and a half hours from a previous birth, you're like, no. I'm not doing that again. Okay? Like, come on. Let let's work. We're working together. But also it's you can you may have been, tucking your tail. So when you say cough, the thing about coughing, usually it causes the lower lumbar area to curl. And anything that will allow the the butt to sort of, like, curl under, like, then that that is going to allow that that ski slope. So if the cervix I mean, if the placenta is still behind the cervix, you know, it let go already, but it's it's just ready to come out. Then that that upright position were you upright, Emilee? Were you Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
In like a squat.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Squat. Upright. And and then that allows that upright and then per ski slope to just, and then the effort, which we had here, I'll just what can we use? Oh, I I brought my bag of cords from around the world. Here's a little here's a little cord. Yeah. Then it it allow and you said you twirled yours around your around my finger. And then, and then just just fiercely fiercely brought her on down, but you were probably fiercely pushing also with your butt. You know what I mean? Like, from the inside. Did you rope I wanna mention roping. So did you rope the cord or rope
Speaker 2
My finger, I did.
Speaker 3
What about the placenta? Like, as it was coming out, did it spiral or so that's just another thing I wanna just mention that may help a lot of people, and it it helped, Heather that we saw at the festival. And it does often help to avoid, trailing or retained membranes. If the if the placenta if you spin the placenta so you spun the cord, and the cord's attached to the placenta. So probably, if we could see it, that as it was coming down, it also was spinning. Right? Because you've already, spun the cord, and that's gonna make the placenta spin as it comes out.
Speaker 2
And That's I imagine that that would also help it if it's behind the cervix still and there's any sort of, like, suction happening over the cervix. I imagine
Speaker 3
that would Yes. Yes. Just like getting out of the roots of a weed a weed out. The other thing that it can do, which can be, important, not that we need to overthink it. I the the part I love about your story is you you were just determined. You you just were were you were using your old brain. You know? The word is desperate. Okay. Okay. That'll do it too.
Speaker 2
That'll do it. That was
Speaker 3
the baby born. But let's say that for whatever reason, there was a little bit more blood than somebody was comfortable with. Because for me, when if we talk about blood, which again is life force, it's not how much blood a woman loses. It's how she tolerates the loss. So, so let's say that there was a little lobe or a little extra piece that hadn't let go. So most of it has let go, but part of it hasn't. So by doing what you just described and by I'll just add, by spinning the placenta, that will actually get the the little piece that, rather than it breaking off.
Speaker 2
That's cool.
Speaker 3
Days later, the mother passes something else or whatever. But rather than it breaking off, it will usually just wrap itself in with all the rest of it and slide one right on out together. Yeah. That makes sense. And if you're home I mean, of course, again, we're not talking about extremes or or pathology. But if you're home and you're feeling like you just don't know what to do and, you know, you've birthed your baby and you need to birth your placenta. You've got all the signs that the placenta is, separated and coming, and you're just feeling timid, then, you know, another thing to think about is, like, they're gonna go in there and pull. Like, they are going to get in there. And and and, again, maybe maybe you're thinking, well, but they've got all the whatever life saving things to help. But were you thinking about that that way when you were birthing your baby? No. So you don't need to think about it that way when you're birthing your placenta. It's like well, damn it. If pardon me. If if if somebody else can get my placenta out, I can get my placenta out.
Speaker 2
Right?
Speaker 3
It it's exciting. And I'm just gonna go back and call her reverent again because it's you know, we wanna be the first ones to hold our baby, and we should also be the first ones to to hold hold our placenta and our first mother. And And she's she's so intelligent, and she's so, powerful. Let's see. I I want to say something here. But she also is counting on us to complete the job. Exactly. She can't do anything just of her own self. She's she's counting on us. Now I know some people have their placentas just fall out of them when they're, you know, walk into the toilet. Okay. Great. But in general, she's counting on us to be proactive, to to take to to touch her, to take hold of her, and to not just push from one side when she might be so low that that there's no there's there's no connection. Well,
Speaker 2
it's it's like what you said earlier. Really, knowing that there are two births, a commitment to birth your baby in peace, a commitment to home birth is a commitment to birth your placenta at home as well. Okay. And, again, I see so many women, for whatever myriad of reasons, sabotage their births at this stage, whether it's fear, whether it's ignorance, whether it's I mean, we could go on a whole different, you know, that we don't need to. All sorts of reasons. And it's it's interesting. It's almost like this new this new, I almost wanna call it a trend where women birth their babies. And then I hear these stories all the time now of women saying, oh, yeah, it took twenty four hours, forty eight hours, seventy hours for my placenta to come. And that doesn't really make any sense to me at all. Like, sure, there could be the anomaly. Sure. Okay. I've been to some births that we, you know, did all the possible things and it just took the time it took. Okay. But it was undramatic. But do you know what I mean? I just hear so many stories nowadays of twenty four hours, forty eight hours, and these women in this sovereign birth movement that's occurring are are sharing these stories of three day placentas. Two days for these placentas to come, seventeen hours, twenty seven hours. And I always think someone should probably tell them that the placenta was ready to be born, and they just didn't know what to do. Would you agree? Let me say it that way. Would you agree that most of the time, of course, there's anomalies, but most of the time, the placenta detaches within the first two hours of birth.
Speaker 3
Yes. Absolutely. I I think the the thing is, as I described earlier, as soon as the baby is starting to navigate life, then the placenta is getting the message that her job is done. And when she gets that message, she starts to let go. Now, yeah, aside from rare and unusual occurrences, I do think that the problem of the portal doors closing and then holding things is probably why it takes more effort or force sometimes than an than another. But I think that adding if if we could add one more thing to people visioning a sovereign birth, as you call it, is that just remembering that the birth of the placenta is your birth. You're not finished birthing. And so that's meant to, like, fall follow on the heels. Like, just like Right. Just Yes. It it just it's it's just all one thing. Now if there is another baby in there and it was two days later and you gave birth to another baby and another placenta story. That that's a twin story. But, yeah, placentas are meant to to follow right after a baby. You you don't need to necessarily look at the clock or be, time focused or worried because this the signs are there. And when you get the signs, then then then yeah. Go go with it. It's exciting to be finished, like your face. You want it to be finished because it it true. Then you can whether you're planning a lotus birth or this birth or that birth or gonna make a drum or whatever you're gonna do, then you can and you can start eating. Like, we yeah. You can start eating and drinking and doing all the things because you are now complete with your birth. So I think the big shift needs to be that when people are thinking about birthing a baby, they're answering those two questions. Their placenta birth.
Speaker 2
There's this space here, and I'm it's why I'm so glad we're talking about it, that women really just don't know that it won't necessarily just plop out. And then when it takes effort, they think, oh, it's just not ready. And I hear stories all year long, every year, that women just take a nap after birth, and they just have their meal, and they're walking around with this with this baby with the placenta still inside because they don't know what is really very simple, you know, simple steps to do. But but why would they know?
Speaker 3
Well, there are many stories in a birth room. So you addressed a little bit of the psychology, and that can happen. I I've held many women with my arms around them because it was emotional for them to release their first mother. Okay. That there can be a lot of reasons for that, and I disrespect that. But when you said you'll birth it when you're ready, in some ways, that's just the psychology of birth of a of a placenta. It's like, are you ready to be the full on mother? And is it sometimes it's keeping the birth, team there. It's like because because if the placent hasn't been born, then everybody's still staying. These thoughts are not always in the forebrain. These sometimes they're in the the heart place of just not wanting it all to end. Maybe the pregnancy has been so amazing and so much fun, and everybody's been so, tribal together, and then it's going to end. Okay. There there can be many of these situations addressing them and thinking about them. But the more serious ones are there can be in the birth room people who are afraid of blood. Mhmm. Or maybe they, have stories in their lineage, and this could be the father. The father could be if the father's in the birth room, he can have a story of his lineage where somebody, you know, I don't know, all the things, lost their uterus or lost their life or lost too much blood or in general, men are like, what? Women bleed and don't die? Like, this is wild. You know, in general, it's not that comfortable or easy to see blood with birth. And so the stories that are in the birth room, not just in the mother's head, in anybody's head that's in the birth room. And I think that's why you mentioned several times wise women, but I think that's why it can be so and we must become them. Right? But it can be so helpful to have a wise woman in the room or on the phone or whatever that says, yep. That's what that's what it takes to birth a baby. Yep. It is that straightforward. Yep. You you gotta you gotta get that out too. Yep.
Speaker 2
Let's talk more about blood loss before we bring this to a to a close. Because exactly what you said, we are taught to be afraid of our blood. Girls are, you know, men are taught to be very uncomfortable with with women's blood. And so we have this fear, And then we have this event that is quite bloody, right, by by design. So what do you want women to know about blood and blood loss? Or or what might be a common misconceptions about blood loss or what are things that, yeah, that you know to be true that would be helpful for new mothers to know? Really anything in the blood loss arena.
Speaker 3
Well, let's see. Where where to begin? Birth is bloody. It's messy. It's wet. It's got mucus. It it just so much. And on the other hand, it's not meant to be a bloodbath. It's not that. It's and the physiology of a woman of humans, but of a woman is always behind what's happening. So if, like, the numbers, you know, of of, five hundred to a thousand milliliters or two and a half cups to five cups, they're not health. They're helpful in knowing that we have about eight cups of blood in our bodies. Right? They're not helpful in that if you're actively losing blood, you need a placenta. You just need a placenta. It means the placenta separated, and you need a placenta. It's the it's the first thought to just be like, wow. It's let's let's birth a placenta. Like, if you get a head, right, of a baby, it's like, okay. Let's birth the baby. You don't wait a day. I I say that with great humbleness. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But, you
Speaker 3
know, if you get a baby's head, then you you need a baby. You're gonna birth a baby. I'm not saying in a panic or in a frantic or with reverence and with joy. Baby is coming. You don't it's not like later. It's now. And same with placenta. If you're getting the signs, birth your placenta with with confidence. And if a mother has lost so it's how she tolerates the loss. If she's dizzy when she stood up, she lost too much blood. You don't need to tell her, oh, you didn't lose very much. She she lost too much for her. Okay? She's dizzy and or or or unsteady or or or needs a moment. Maybe she needs oatmeal. Maybe she
Speaker 2
Let's let's pause there for a second because I think most people when they hear, I don't want a woman to I don't want people to walk away from this episode going, oh, so if I'm dizzy, then I mean, I've lost too much. And then they're gonna dramatize that. So in a, you know, in a home setting that is holistic and mother centered, being dizzy is good information, right, that we respond to.
Speaker 3
Isn't that the same as if we're birthing our baby and we get we have some of us have to work hard to birth our babies, and we might get little bit tired. We need some honey and electrolytes. But
Speaker 2
Right. Like, my point is there's so many steps where where I just hear so many stories of women, you know, think thinking they're gonna free birth, and then they get dizzy, and they go to the hospital and ask for a blood transfusion. You know? And they believe these stories about hemorrhage that are so extreme and really quite unlikely, really. And so I'd love to, like, demystify some of this a bit because it's not uncommon to feel, you know, a little shaky or a little weak or a little out of it. Now I'm not talking about a lot. Just a little.
Speaker 3
And, actually, you should feel a little out of it. Right?
Speaker 2
Out of it. Even
Speaker 3
Yeah. But that that does bring up something that's important to me. It just my, point of view because we're try we birth as a tribe. But a a mother that's given birth to a baby and then a placenta shouldn't be all alone. Even though I know women all over the world that birth all alone. But especially when we're not that animalistic and we're not sure if a blood clot is tissue, we need somebody checking on a mother so that when I say lost, more than this comfortable for her, I mean, she needs to not do dishes tonight. She needs to be on vacation. She needs a drink and some extra food, as opposed to I'm gonna give the other example. Another woman might lose what we would call quite a bit, and she just tie in her shoelaces and wants to go check her flowers out back in her garden. And we can't tell her, oh, you you lost a little too much blood. You know, you need to have oatmeal and lay down. It's like, no. She what she feels is how she's handling what happened to her. And that's what we respect is Yeah. How does she feel? Not just feel in her heart, but, I mean, physically, she's she's letting us know how she tolerated that loss. And it could be we'd be like, wow. She's my new hero. How in the Hades? She's that's that's amazing. Okay. That's how she tolerate it. She still deserves oatmeal. But so it just to mirror a mother, to be the elephant circle, to notice what is she needing. Is she needing more, food and fluids and rest? Or is she needing more inner she's got more energy, and so she needs to tell her birth story ten times. We heard it nine times, but she needs to tell it ten times. She's so excited.
Speaker 2
I also think, you know, for women listening to this being, like, how would I know? I I also wanna say that if you if you can't intuit what a woman needs, you can ask.
Speaker 3
Like, women Give me an example.
Speaker 2
Well, you know, I do this RBK school where so many women want to attend births, and they also don't trust themselves yet. And so they'll often ask questions like they'll they'll be really nervous that they're gonna screw it up in the room, which I appreciate the awareness of that. But also, if you're being asked to be in a room, be in the room. You know, like, you're you're you are being asked to be there. And so, anyway, I just am am thinking about women who are new to attending birth being nervous about not knowing if the mom not knowing how to sense what the mom needs. If she needs more space, if she needs more, you know, warmth and care, if she needs to be more cared for, if she needs to be telling her birth story nine times. And I'm just, yeah, I'm just wanting to say that if you if you can't sense it, it's okay to just ask. Like, I've never really been around a woman postpartum who didn't know what she wanted, like, who didn't know what she needed. You know, she can say, I'm cold. I need a blanket if if it's like that, or I'm hungry. You know, I I guess what I'm really getting at is I I think a lot of women make up that this time is really complicated of how to serve women, and it's not. It's actually the most simple. Right? It's it's it's
Speaker 3
it's ancient.
Speaker 2
It's ancient. And it's it's so actually uncomplicated to be present, be in your body, you know, provide warmth, love, care, witnessing, heart to heart, and and the rest just unfolds. And I just see so many women in every in every round that we do just complicate this idea of of supporting that immediate postpartum.
Speaker 3
Well, I I feel that women who are helping some other woman deserve to have somebody they can call. Yeah. If they're not sure about something of course, it would be a bigger something than shall I ask her if she's cold, but or wants a blanket. But they they don't have to be all alone. They can call someone as well. But I I actually have helped many women who, I can't say that they don't know what they want, but they I prefer to keep them in their old brain as long as they possibly can be with it. So to just offer a drink, the mother can not take it or take it. Or if she's shivering, you don't need to ask her if she'd like a blanket. She just offer a blanket. If she put it on or take it off or whatever. I I think we we're lacking the joy of it, the the reverence of it, the because of fear of some outlying unusual emergencies and then the the lack of the bridge from the older generations who just automatically knew a blood clot from piece of tissue or or or or many of these, signs that are just a part of a a baby being born and a placenta being born. We're we're actually creating each wave each new of these, movement waves try to create a new bridge from that old generation that knew things, and we have to learn them as we go. The they're gonna make mistakes. They're they're not gonna be life and death mistakes. They're just gonna be like, oh, I different women have different personalities. Just when you think this is a nice thing to do, another woman is like, why would you ever do that? Yeah. It's you're not a bad you're not a a a bad birth guardian. You're just you're just learning about women. But back to the first mother, I I just want I want to say that protecting that birth like you protect the birth of the baby, giving some time to realize that it's important and you gotta give birth twice, And that it it just follows right right away. All the signs are there and just just help this, first mother out. And then there's all the exciting things of what you might do. Using the cord, licking the baby, sucking on the cord, using a bite of the, membranes, and, of course, the little bite of the placenta if it comes, when it comes. All of these things are are natural things that help keep it all normalized. That that's what we're doing at home. We're just normalizing the miracle. How do you how do you make a normal miracle? But that's what women do every time they give birth. They're just normalizing the miracle. And, those are things that can help. Lick your baby. Kiss your baby. You're getting some
Speaker 2
of
Speaker 3
that extra amniotic fluid in your own mouth. And then now that's safeguarding you, taking care of you, too. Just knowing I can birth my baby. I can birth my placenta. If I can birth my baby, I can birth my placenta. Why
Speaker 2
not? So what would you consider excessive blood loss and and what would be a holistic, supportive response to that?
Speaker 3
Well, that is getting into a little bit, deeper waters, you know, deeper waters. But, I would say first first off, the the two things that are most problematic when I think about it is blood coming too fast. Like, a little a little gush for that's normal for first mother coming is a little gush, and it stops. It's not just gonna keep coming. That's not normal. It's just not normal for blood to just keep coming. So coming too fast or a trickle bleed. Like, it's not fast, but it doesn't stop. Okay. It just keeps scumming a little bit and a little bit and a little bit. Those two things, you need a placenta. You know, you've got you've got separation. Otherwise, you wanna well, of of course, we're we're not talking about a potential laceration from somewhere else. We're talking about the womb. And so you you've to me, it's like, okay. We we've got a head. We we need a body. Okay. If we got separation, we need a placenta. Why not just have a good positive, strong attitude about it? I wouldn't wait. For me, I wouldn't wait with a trickle bleed or a or a a fast fast bleed. Kind of like your warrior your warrior type attitude of, like, let's do this. My favorite words. Let's let's do it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Then what about after the placenta is out? Do you in your experiences, that less common? And, I mean, the first thing isn't even common. But yeah, what do you have to say about about afterwards?
Speaker 3
I would say that it's even less common. The first one is very rare as well. Most of the time, it's exactly what we've said. It's right there, and I'm just waiting for somebody to get it out. Most of these transports that we all hear about, they get to the hospital or it comes out in the car and they decide to go on and have it checked. Or No. They get to the hospital and the and the doctor pulls it out or, you know, guides it, whatever you wanna call it. But it was right there. It it was right there, and and they've got it. So, yeah, fast, trickle, or we need a placenta. Then we get a placenta. The only then it's even more rare. Right? Even more rare, unusual that there would usually be, like, a trickle bleed. Probably not gonna be a fast bleed after that. And that's simply the uterus needing to contract contract. So think of all the ways we do that. Nipple stimulation or baby nursing, if it's if you've got a toddler that'll nurse, they're a nice strong nurser. Or, yeah, just rubbing on the men women do that themselves, like, kind of rub their little bellies to to get a nice firm firm uterus because a uterus that will contract is gonna stop bleeding. Oh.
Speaker 2
It it's
Speaker 3
it's only if the u atony. Right? It's only if the uterus won't contract that it, that it would would keep bleeding. It's just Oh. Getting getting smaller every second. In our minds, we can tell ourselves every second, it's getting it's contracting more.
Speaker 2
Well, that's why I wanted to ask it because, you know, women are are just obsessed with this blood loss possibility around around birth, and there's so much fear held around it. And and I want women to know that, a, excessive blood loss, you know, which by my definition would be, you know, where where it is truly problematic for you to, function. To be, you know, to feel okay, to be okay. Right? Because excessive blood loss is not an emergency. It is a complication that in in most situations, in every situation I've ever personally supported, it was able to caretake at home. Yes. I've never, you know, been in that in a dramatic situation like like that like a transfer because of blood loss. Though I hear of them and I feel very curious about them because it doesn't really match up with what Yeah. Well, whatever. With what I with what I know to be true. And so I think we have this constellation here of women being afraid of blood, not being, you know, familiar with birth. Of course, they don't see it. They don't know it yet. And, and then all of this obsession around hemorrhage and so many women walking around with this story told to them that they hemorrhage, that they're a bleeder, that their mother's a bleeder, hemorrhage, hemorrhage, hemorrhage. Right? So much, so much energy around that. So I think it's important to hear your answer because both it's very, very unlikely. And even if it were to occur, there's so much to respond to and to be with and to caretake in the room Right. Way before it would make any sense in my mind, to run to a stranger and have them go inside of you and shoot you up with pharmaceuticals. Like, that is a violent end to this story. And I think I think a lot of women don't know that there's this wide spectrum of caretaking that's possible at home to regulate the body.
Speaker 3
Yes. I hardly I hardly know how to think about that because if you can stabilize at home, why would you go in? And and and if you're planning a home birth, you want to have some good ideas of how you would stabilize at home. That's just me. If you can stabilize at home, why why would you go in? And the way that we stabilize is getting a placenta out if it's if it's time. And then after it's time, just caring for the mother so that the so that she's nursing and her uterus is contracting. It it is that simple. It's it's
Speaker 2
that really is.
Speaker 3
It it really is. I mean, I don't I'm not playing God. I'm not saying that there's not some other lacerate. Some some ridiculous even more rare, situation. But in general, what we're talking about is the birth of the first mother. And once she's born, then you just need a uterus that contracts. And there's Yeah. There's simple feeding the mother, letting her lay down and feeding her is already going to start stabilizing her. And every hour that she's stable every hour that she's post birth, she's just getting this intelligent, temple that we live in is recalibrating itself faster. Like, we give it a little bit of help, and it is like taking that and running with it. It's recalibrating and stabilizing her even faster. As long as we don't interrupt that by doing something, errors errors, I would say, that are, naive naive area error errors. Like, the mother has to go pee, and she's gonna walk to the toilet to go pee. Only she's a little bit light headed or dizzy because she just did the biggest work of her whole life. Okay. Don't walk to the toilet. Yeah. Just very simple things. Just keep the attracting and keep her quiet and calm and fed. And every hour, she's just gonna get stronger and stronger.
Speaker 2
Yeah. The moving's a really interesting one. So many birth trauma debriefs I've done with women who had who had been labeled with a postpartum hemorrhage from a home birth with a medical midwife. So many of their stories we can track back to she was forced to move. She wasn't ready to stand up. She was forced to move. Absolutely. And her body gets dysregulated. Boom.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So if you birth in a birthing tub or water, have a landing pad that just right there. And there's just not any reason for a for a mother to have to stand or move or do a lot other than being in love with her baby until she, by her own volition, her own motivation, she wants to to do something. And then she's the one that that that kind of, like, raises up the rest of the world and either says, think I'll just lay back down. Mhmm. It's may we take back birth? May we take back first breaths? May we do it soon enough so that we learn how to take back, end of life and our elders and last breaths and learn how to do that at home too? Because it's the the skills and the tools are not that complicated. They're they're very humanistic. They're, and and should we have, an unforeseen and rare emergency, we are not in the third world. We actually, you know, I'm gonna be turning seventy, and I've I've only seen a doctor one time my whole life for that first child who who told me something ridiculous. He he said I'm sure he was a nice man, but he said, well, we just don't know for sure if you can have a baby. You're little, and we'll give you, like, fifty fifty chance. And I walked away from that experience with a supposedly intelligent and and trained medical person thinking, well, they don't even know what they're talking about. He doesn't know me. He doesn't know my people who are all little, and he he doesn't know that we've we've all given given birth. So, of course, I had my baby in an hour and fifty three minutes, my first baby.
Speaker 2
Boom.
Speaker 3
Because it's it's tribal for us. Right? But so I'm not saying that you can't trust other people, but mostly, the intelligence is inside you. And if you're with a mother, you need to know that, that the intelligence is inside her. Is there anything else I want to say about about blood loss? I think it's a beautiful thing that postpartum is meant to be in a sanctuary. It's meant to be a peaceful and and slow and calm and quiet reemergence into the outer world again. And all of that allows for whatever blood loss the mother had, then she's getting her strength back, whether it was little bit or or for her. Again, it's for her. What how did she tolerate it? And then either way, she's just building it back up stronger than ever. When I took care of the Mennonite women, my my colleagues would say, if there's been excessive blood loss, they need to have fluid replacement. Okay. I was always against it, and I'll tell you. And also in third world countries, I was always against it. Here's my reasoning. If a mother has had excessive blood loss, however that's defined for her, then she is basically weak as a kitten. She will not get up and do the dishes. She will not wait on her family. She will stay in bed and take care of her baby and herself. And when she rebuilds, she is truly strong and healthy again. If she gets fluid replacement and, again, I'm not talking about extreme situations. I'm talking about, normal birth with normal, unfortunately, complicated excessive blood loss. Then if she gets fluid replacement, it is a fake sense of feeling, better. Like, she actually feels like, oh, I feel better. And then everybody around her sees her as somebody who feels better, and they don't take care of her in the same way. And she doesn't stay down in the same way. And so then in about two months, she crashes because she really did lose those red blood cells that carry iron and carry oxygen. She really did lose them, and her body has not had a chance to build them back up the way it would have if everybody recognized, wow, she needs extra vacation. She needs extra help. And then in in other countries, it becomes even more serious because then the it it looks like they're better. Do you see what I'm saying? I'm not talking about these extremes. I'm talking about childbirth and how much a woman, deserves to have it be a powerful story, not one that some outside source saved my life. Some outside source say because then the next generation, they have that lineage. So this story that mother almost died or mother almost did this or did that, then they are weaker and feeling confident that they can birth their baby. And we need to be, we need each other and we need ourselves to know that we we can do what we're doing. And that if we, each step, if we do that, we have more confidence to take the next step and the next step until things are so ancient wisdom has reentered the home. And the women and the people there taking care of babies being born and elders passing on, that this wisdom is not something we handed off or we lost.
Speaker 2
Right? It's resiliency. Yeah. It's resiliency. It's it's power. It's it's I mean, even the opportunity to rebuild after excessive blood loss is resiliency. Absolutely.
Speaker 3
But you need you you deserve a
Speaker 2
new My goodness. I couldn't even imagine. Yeah.
Speaker 3
So you mentioned young, birth guardians. So they they also have a right and need to have someone they can can call or talk to and say, wow. It seems like it was this or that. It it it was just fun and fantastic. It's like, okay. Well, get ready. She needs to tell that story ten times. Or, no. It was a little bit off here or there. What do the what did the ancient wise women do in this situation? And okay. Oh, we feed her more or more oatmeal. Or instead of six weeks postpartum, we call it eight weeks. Or, you know, that's why forty days, of course, ended up being such a fun number for people. But it gets exciting, and the whole village and the whole community gets involved. And then instead, how did this miraculous birth story end? It ended with the whole community learning more and taking care of this beautiful, beautiful new generation and this new tribal lineage. I I want to leave it with that. There's that song we should sing, that last song, we are she who bleeds and does not die.
Speaker 2
K. But you have to sing it alone because when I sing it with you, the you can't both sing together on Zoom. It's very sad. So you
Speaker 3
I will I will do my best because I think it's a beautiful thing. And, also, I want to say, of course, all due respect to any extreme situation. We are not discussing those. We're talking about, the the the childbirth that has kept the human race arrive alive from the dawn of time, and we get to be part of that. We're part of that story. And, thank you so much for joining us today. So, Kim of Kansas City wrote this song because she too, this was decades ago, hearing way too many stories from the maidens who were afraid of their bleeding, and the mothers who are afraid of their bleeding, and the crones who are like, I don't know how to get through my not bleeding. And all the and that's such an exciting journey. Right? The the, when a puzzle journey. But so this is a song that Kim of Kansas City wrote. We are she who bleeds and does not die. We are she who carries a baby to life. We are she who holds the wise blood. Inside we are she who bleeds and does not die. We are she who bleeds and does not die. We are she who carries a baby to life, we are she who holds the wise blood inside, we are she who bleeds and does not die. So I hope you sing with me. Yeah. When you can and where you can. And, I leave you with my last story of Dona Antonia. I did many, many births with her. And in her country, women do die in childbirth. And so when we were in a birth, she and I, and a woman would be saying, no puedo. No puedo. I can't, voy amorrir, I'm gonna die. She would say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, us women, we're all gonna die, but we are not going to die in childbirth, not us women. So, yes, we must all walk on one day, but it will not be in childbirth. It will be birthing our babies in power, birthing our placentas in reverence, and living not only to tell the story, but next generation who calls us part of their lineage. May it be so for you, and may it be so for me and my grandchildren because I have grandchildren now. May it be so for us all.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions eons upon Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
