Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom's child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom check since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Hello. Hello. I hope you're creating a beautiful day today wherever you are tuning in from. I am so excited to share this episode with you. Before we get going, I have a few announcements. Tickets are flying for Matriarch Rising Festival. I know June might feel really far away, for some of you. But if you wanna come, grab your tickets soon because it is looking like it will sell out quicker this year than ever before, and I don't want you to miss out. You can check out the lineup as we have it so far and get all of the info at matriarch rising festival dot com. But really what I wanna say right now is, just for a moment, imagine a place where free birthers, sovereign birth attendants, herbalists, wise women serving beyond the medical system are all gathering, armpit hair galore, women dancing naked in the sunshine, all on private, gorgeous land, being served delicious food for five nights under the full moon on summer solstice. I mean, it's literally better than I can describe. So come into my dream world and gift yourself a deeply replenishing heart and mind expander touch point for your whole year. Oh, and before I forget, this is our first year accepting sponsorships with brands to work with MRF. So if you have a brand you wanna get in front of the coolest group of women and mothers around, contact us at partnerships at matriarch rising festival dot com and we can send you the info. Okay. So we also recently opened doors for our annual program, the Blood Mysteries School. And, what can I even say about this school? It is an experience unlike anything else out there. It's been described as the warm cave of wise women inviting you into a guided sixteen weeks of self healing and self reclamation so that you can serve in your highest potential. You already know that you're meant to do this work, and, yes, you can do it professionally. So go learn all about it on our curriculum page, listen to the previous students, and grab your spot, blood mystery school dot com. Oh, and I've been meaning to mention on here that if you have a free birth video that you'd be willing to donate essentially to our free birth YouTube channel, please submit it. The link is in the show notes below. We are so close to having enough free birth videos to open up our free birth channel to the public. So I'm really excited. I mean, imagine women from all over the world will be able to watch tons and tons of normal birth videos as their own free childbirth education and their children too. It's so important. So if you have a video to share, please send it on over and thank you. Help me spread the word, sisters. Alright. I'll leave it there. Enjoy this episode. It's a really good one. So today on the show, I have the radiant mineral expert and free birther, of course, Margaret Berry, who shares her birth stories and her vast knowledge of minerals, including how it links to preeclampsia. After being diagnosed with pre preeclampsia, yes, I said pre pre, Margaret goes on to have a four day hospital induction with her first baby. Margaret dove into self study to understand what happened and now has a self appointed PhD in preeclampsia. She lays out practical and simple advice on what to eat and how far off it all is from the mainstream advice. Alright. Enjoy. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3
Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to be here. So excited.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm so excited too because like I was just telling you, I asked my girlfriend Ariel who's like rocking the minerals conversation right now. Who's who's who's, like, kind of, yeah, in that world? Because I wanted to have an episode on this season about minerals, which is, you know, largely what we're gonna be getting into today. What are they? Why do we need them? What are the common, you know, myths and and lies that we need to let go of as sovereign women? Where can we find these minerals? You know, I just wanna get into all of it. But what's so cute about you is that when Ariel said you, I gotta check you out, she was like, oh, and also she free birthed. And that's just so so exciting to me and so fun to have, you know, both of those. So, yeah, let's just pass it to you.
Speaker 3
Interesting mix. Yes.
Speaker 2
I love it. Well, that keeps happening. It happened with Noel. Yeah. These, like, women that I'm interested in what they're doing and their work in the world, and then I find out that they're also free birthers. It's so fun.
Speaker 3
They're also on that side. I feel like there's a, I don't know. You start questioning one thing and, like, how things work, and then it just kind of bleeds over into other areas. Totally. We're like, why why do we do that that way? Let's not do that again.
Speaker 2
And, I mean, I have to say, like, I have I have a lot of respect. And and let me say it this way. I have a lot of interest in learning from women in different areas of expertise who also choose free birth. Right? Because, obviously, it's a value of mine, but it really, like, shows that that there's a lot of, what's the congruency of authenticity across the board. You know? Yes.
Speaker 3
Yes. For sure.
Speaker 2
Taking responsibility.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely. That that's definitely been something that I had to learn, of course, after with my first birth, learning that learning that lesson kind of the hard way and then being like, we're not gonna do we're not gonna go down that road again. So
Speaker 2
Yeah. So tell us a little bit about who you are, what is your work with minerals, and then tie that into your first birth.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I have been interested in and kind of moving within the realm of natural health, wellness, especially women's health and wellness in particular, for quite a while. In my late teens, I had some hormonal imbalances. I actually had, hypo hypothalamic amenorrhea where you don't have a cycle. I basically was restricting myself to the degree that I didn't have a cycle for two years.
Speaker 2
Wait. Restricting yourself meaning starving yourself?
Speaker 3
Basically, be to be healthy. Right? And so, again, I went to an endocrinologist, and they're like, oh, I think you need to do a CT scan of your pituitary to to check to make sure. And, of course, I did. Right? And they're like, oh, well, we don't know why. And then within two months
Speaker 2
God. Right?
Speaker 3
So, yeah, within two months of that, I I was, like, eighteen. I was seventeen, eighteen. I got an herb book that I just found at a I think it was at a book sale. And I was reading there about an herb. I believe it was vitex chasteberry. And I'm like, oh, hey. This might help also if I start nourishing myself better. This I know this can help with progesterone, and I know how important that is. Literally did that the month a month later, I started my cycle back, and it never stopped, basically. It, you know, was regular after that. So I was like my got thrown into that, kind of autonomous. Like, oh, actually, there's things that I could do and find out that this professional doctor didn't really have the skill to understand
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 3
Even though it's so obvious. So, I grew up on a farm. I'm oldest of eight kids, and, I had always wanted to have a family of my own. So after I got married, it was only about a year or so that I became pregnant with my first child. And it's so funny how looking back I mean, I see a lot of you know, I was very naive. I was thinking, oh, you know, there's a hospital and they have a birthing center with midwives. This is gonna be great. You know? I just thought, oh, that's this is gonna be the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2
And I mean, to be fair, that's how they pitch it.
Speaker 3
Yes. It's very true. Yeah. That's how they sell it to you. It's like, oh, this is the best of both. And so I ended up, working with them. And, really, it was, I think, about twenty weeks along that they started planting seeds of doubt in my mind. They started pointing things out that might be wrong, that we're not sure about, and it just, like I think I cried every day from, like, twenty weeks of pregnancy till when I had my daughter. Like, it was terrible experience. They just were, you know, pathologizing things about me, and I hate being in medical setting anyway. And I should've realized that, you know, I just don't like being in that situation, in that type of environment where I feel very small. I feel like I'm not able to speak up even though I could. I just wasn't ready for that yet. I was kind of thrown in the deep end of that. And so when it was time for, you know, right around the time that I had her, it was an induction at thirty seven weeks because of literally one blood pressure reading that they took from me after I had been walking up the stairs to the place that I was supposed to get this done. And I was told, oh, well, we know you just walked up the stairs. We're not gonna send that over to your your care provider because we know you just you know, we were supposed to send you a wheelchair and we didn't. That one reading, they, of course, they lied to me. They did send it to her, and she, you know, panicked. Oh my goodness. We need to do an induction now. So that led to a four day hospital stay. It literally felt like I was in prison because You were. Yeah. Exactly. And I have photos of myself from that time and because my blood pressure was, like, normal. Right? And they were telling me, oh, oh, you have preeclampsia. You know, your organs are failing.
Speaker 2
None of that was none of that
Speaker 3
was true. And even the nurse who was filling up my, like, my little pee jug that they had me peeing in to make sure that I was producing enough urine and my kidneys weren't failing, One pee was filling the whole thing up, and she looked at me. She goes, wait. Like, looking at her notes, like, are you the are you the preeclampsia?
Speaker 2
You're the super sick. Like, this doesn't track.
Speaker 3
Super sick woman who's on the verge of death. You
Speaker 2
know? God.
Speaker 3
This is so dumb. So, I ended up having the induction. Like, they kept me, you know, on watch for four days, and it was terrible because they did make it make it seem like, oh, you can leave, but you wouldn't do that, would you? You know, that kind of
Speaker 2
You can leave if you and your baby wanna die.
Speaker 3
Exactly. And they actually flat out Go ahead. Yeah. And they flat out told me prior to that because I hated being the doctor's office so much. And if it was a doctor in the room taking my blood pressure, it would be higher than when they were not. Yeah. They told me, oh, well, you and your baby, like, are going to have serious complications. You don't take this blood pressure medication. I was like, that is bogus. I know I don't need that. So, anyway, they just we were spinning this web. And then I later realized if this was even, like, two years ago. I was due, December twenty sixth, technically. And I had this thought because it was about three weeks early. I had this thought, is this also a oh, it's holiday season. Let's go ahead and try to get, you know, some of these people out of our, out of our Of course.
Speaker 2
In the time. It's not even, like, a a question. Like, yes. Yeah. That's Yeah. That's, like yes. That's what they do. That is absolutely a part of the end of the year.
Speaker 3
Yes. And so I lit literally just hit hit me. It was even two years ago. I was like, oh my gosh. That's actually part of it as well is that they didn't wanna have to deal with me. So, anyway, they did the induction eventually after four days of being there. It was terrible. The first day, of course, you know, Pitocin. Right? First day, didn't absolutely nothing. And I that end of the day, I was so defeated because I was like, I feel like this baby is not ready to come out right now. Like, I just don't feel like she's ready. I don't feel like I'm ill. But, But, again, it's your first child. I had no idea the context of that. I didn't understand about, also, blood pressure, preeclampsia, and minerals, which I went to major get my, unofficial self given PhD in that of that subject. Like, I dove deep into that to try to understand, like, what are some of the reasons for this that are not, given by the medical, you know, the medical complex. So I actually went on for my, you know, my second birth to study that and understand, no. I did not have that. I did not have a problem. Right. We were just trying to, you know, control the outcomes to their, you know, their ability. So
Speaker 2
Money. Money. Money.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. And the money. Oh my word. That hospital stay? Mhmm. The expense of that?
Speaker 2
A four day induction?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was in it was astronomical. So on
Speaker 2
Can we can the title of your episode be, like, Margaret gives herself a PhD? Yeah. About Honorary PhD. I love it. I love it. You should just introduce yourself as a PhD in minerals and then, like, oh, you're too sweet. You're like the internet.
Speaker 3
Because it really made me so passionate about this because people have been writing me all the time. Hey. They're threatening to do this. I'm like, okay. Here's the three diagnostic criteria for this. If you don't have those, then you need to get a second opinion. You need to just go home and relax.
Speaker 2
You need to drink,
Speaker 3
you know,
Speaker 2
and Even on those three, there is no firm, as you know, if you have a PhD in preeclampsia. Yeah. There is no it it's it's it's like COVID. It's like a set of symptoms
Speaker 3
Yep.
Speaker 2
That might present preeclampsia. Exactly. And even with, like, their gold standard, you
Speaker 3
know, the urine out. Oh, if you have this much protein urine in twenty four hours, well, guess what? If you have zero baseline for that, you have no idea what's going on for you. You don't do nothing. And then the blood pressure is so variable that it's like that you know? Anyway, it's just it's insane to me how they will hold that over people's head. Oh, you know? Well, we're just gonna go ahead and send you down for an induction.
Speaker 2
Well, it's it's brilliant. It's a brilliant strategy because because preeclampsia is so unclear and also real preeclampsia is so well, eclampsia is is so serious and potentially life threatening and all of that or is life threatening. Yes. It's it's the dead baby card. You know? It's the it's the card. Like, if you throw that, what woman is go going to without a PhD in preeclampsia, you know, because she has two hours to figure this out, right, when they suggest an induction. What woman has the knowledge and wherewithal to say no thank you when they're throwing such a serious diagnosis your way. And then just go a step further, if you are super knowledgeable, you ain't birthing in the hospital.
Speaker 3
Right. Right. Exactly. You know,
Speaker 2
I'm like, no one's diagnosing you with preeclampsia if you know
Speaker 3
a lot about it. Exactly. So it was just mind boggling me looking back, and that's what was the impetus for me to start studying it more. Because I was like, this this doesn't make sense. Like, this really doesn't. And, again, they throw that at you because, like, the eclampsia and the pre, there's a big difference there too. And so many women fit the, oh, you're in the pre category. And for me, they're like, you're in the pre pre category.
Speaker 2
Pre pre. Oh my god. It's like it's like you're pre COVID. Have you heard people saying that?
Speaker 3
Yes. I
Speaker 2
have. Yes. You're pre. And I'm like, alive. I'm like, what?
Speaker 3
Yes. So it is but literally that, like, that comparison to COVID, it is very interesting because there is similarities.
Speaker 2
There's this similar I am I am pretired.
Speaker 3
Yes. I'm pretty hungry. Like, pretty hungry
Speaker 2
because I I already ate, so I am now full. And, therefore, I am pre
Speaker 3
hungry. It's ten thirty, and I'm already pretired. I'm looking forward to, you know, just some scary when, you know, my baby goes to sleep.
Speaker 2
So you actually got called pre preeclampsia?
Speaker 3
He literally described it to me.
Speaker 2
My god.
Speaker 3
Yes. And I I again, looking back, I'm like, this is this is the the dumbest thing I have ever heard, like, literally. So all this is going on. They're tracking, you know, they're tracking my urine. They're running my labs. And I knew enough about labs at that point, which I am trained in them. I knew enough about them to understand from there, at least. I was like, there's nothing glaring on here either. But yet, I didn't I was like, okay. We're just gonna go with it. My husband the same way. He and he actually looking back, he said he felt helpless because he wanted to just pull me out of there, but he also was in this phase of, like, I'm not sure. Like, this is our first phase. I don't know what to expect and all that. So on that day that the induction finally worked, and this is this is the crux of this that then kinda bleeds over into postpartum, was that they had been doing Pitocin again, crank it up crank it up the highest notch it could go, and I was only, like, three centimeter centimeters when they checked. Right? And so midwife's like, well, this is your first baby. It's gonna be a long time. So I'm gonna go across the street and, you know, do some admin things, and I'll come back later tonight. You know, this is maybe eleven thirty. She said, I'll come back over, you know, like, six thirty tonight and see how things are going. Right? So I'm, like, being rocked by these contractions that are literally I feel like a train is going through me in a very bad way. And so about thirty minutes later, I was like, I I can't do this anymore. I can't you know, I started doing that. Of course, they offer the epidural. Right? So I'm like, it's gonna be another six hours. Again, she planted that in my brain. It's gonna be another six hours. I'm not gonna be able to do this. So I was like, yes. Let's do that. Let's go ahead and do that. And I actually remember because the the anesthetist came in, and I was sitting there. You know, you have to stand it's perfectly still. It's torture. You have to sit perfectly still. And I was holding on to my husband, and I remember distinctly, feeling, like, an intense amount of pressure. I started saying I can't do this anymore. Right? So we know, like, that's kind of a, oh, you're getting close. No one ever checked me to, like, see the phase I was in. So he literally has a needle in. He's putting it in. He's administering it. I am having to sit still, having to be quiet during this time, which is most likely that transitional phase. So I'm, like, huddled over like this, Johnny, the trauma of that. Oh my god. So I'm sitting there, and they're telling me you don't know, you know, you don't know anything. This is your first baby. Blah blah blah. So they end up, he puts it in, and then I right as he's taking it out and finishing up, patched it up. I'm like, I need I feel rectal pressure. I need to poop. And the whole room just froze for a second, and then just everybody started like, oh my gosh. The baby part did this to that. I literally had a head coming out. So I looked down, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Your head the baby's head's coming out. So, again, they get me on my the epidural kicks in probably on the next to last push, and it just barely starts to kick in. So I'm sitting there like, this is the dumbest. They say y'all gave me this, and then my my midwife who was across the street from the hospital, I actually had this one OB come in who was gonna deliver because she was across the street at the hospital. Right? And she was like, oh, you know, you're you're not gonna you're you're gonna be a long time. Well, I went from probably about a probably a three to complete in yeah. Estimated. Right? Maybe in, like, thirty minutes or like, I just went like, it just went to town on the dilation. And she just was not expecting that. So this OB that I didn't like came in.
Speaker 2
If if you were even really a three. Like, nothing is true. Exactly.
Speaker 3
Because, like, even with my, with my second birth where I just I wasn't touched or anything. You know? I was never checked, like, at all ever ever. Like, I didn't want that. I would never consent to that now knowing the things I know in labor too. I'm like, this doesn't even like, it literally doesn't even matter. So it was just like I went so fast. And then the my midwife just comes in, like, hair going great. Like, she just, like, runs in from across the street. She's able to deliver, the baby. And, of course, she's, you know, she's small. She's, like, six well, for me, she's small. She's, like, six eight six pounds eight. And the worst part of that whole thing was that I was numb after that. Right? Couldn't move for two or three hours. I had her on me. They said, oh, she's really cold. We need to put her in the warmer. Right? So I'm, like, incapacitated. She's over there on the warmer, and I I just I, like, think back on that. I actually had to process some of that because the trauma of, like, I want my baby. I can't get to her, but she is over there, and I'm over here. Like, it that was really hard for me. So just sitting there
Speaker 2
I mean, really, let's just let's just take a pause there because this is a very big deal. Like, this is something that isn't talked about enough around epidurals, what you just articulated. The that the primal instinct and and, it's beyond instinct, the the need, the the real biological need to be with your newborn and for your newborn to be with you is obviously interrupted where women you know, epidural rates in hospitals are upwards of ninety percent. Right? Like, it's in some hospitals, it's ninety nine percent. So the vast majority, almost all women are are completely drugged and on fentanyl or morphine and, you know, local anesthetic, it's the epidural cocktail, and are actually bound to a bed on their back in the most vulnerable position with a catheter in you know, going into their bladder, ton tons of straps. And that right there, just that piece of you literally can't get up and walk to your baby. Like, again, back to, like, the brilliant evil of obstetrics. Like, let's numb let's numb the mothers. Let's make it so that they can't even fucking move. Let's get them so high that we can do whatever we want to them and their babies.
Speaker 3
Yep. And have their way with what they want in in that. And that's what it that's what felt like.
Speaker 2
It was it was what it was, Margaret. Yeah. That's what it was.
Speaker 3
It felt horrible. And so that that whole that that situation sticks in my brain. And the cool thing about this is that my second baby, the redemption of that whole thing like, the thing that sticks in my brain about his birth is, you know, after he was born, he's on my chest. And, I mean, I have picture of that. And I'm just like, I, like, I did like, I I did this. You know? So it's cool because the the things that stick to me or stick with me in both the births are so, like, just might be different to me. Oh. So after all that
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you leave that birth, and it sounds like in real time, you know some of this is bullshit.
Speaker 3
Oh, yes. I was already like, I can't I know this is not right, but I can't extract myself. And then and so this is super interesting. This is actually how I found you guys. So I was, like, having a, you know, midnight nursing session with my daughter. Thankfully, after that, like, the bonding was great. We were able to I mean, literally, she was just barnacle to me for the first two years of her life. And she now and now she's very happy. She's, gonna be six in December. She's super happy, very vibrant. You You know?
Speaker 2
I mean, we became We became moms within one month of each other.
Speaker 3
Oh, really?
Speaker 2
Okay. So cute. My daughter will be six in January.
Speaker 3
Oh, wow. So they're, like, right around the same age. That is so cool. I had no idea. So yeah. So that that wintertime, like, it was so great. Like, we're able to to bond and do all that. So I was sitting on the couch, scrolling through through Facebook as one does. It is twelve thirty at night. She's not she's kinda just hanging out. And I see an ad for a a group that I think it was Yolande had had run at the time on Facebook, and I saw that. And I was like, This is interesting. So I started reading some of her stuff, and I was like, wait. People actually just do this, and I could have skipped this whole charade.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And I read some of her stuff. It was very healing for me. Then I found your group on Facebook, and I started reading that. I was like, alright. Next time, we're gonna do this totally different. And, also, in my brain, I was like, I'm also gonna wait a very long you know, wait a long time, like, let myself process. Well, I got pregnant at, you know, ten months postpartum. Right?
Speaker 2
Oh. Oh, snap.
Speaker 3
I'm a full daughter and got pregnant. And the day I found out, I, like, cried because I was I was so scared about, oh my goodness. Here we go. I'm gonna have to figure out what to do this you know, I figure out all of that. And so luckily with him, totally different. Like, again, totally different experience. Low key, I was able to be very in tune with my body. That's also when minerals kinda came into my life in a bigger way because I realized, you know, for my daughter's pregnancy, I realized some of the things I may have been lacking in, some of the advice I I may have been following that was incorrect for pregnant woman. And I was able to apply a lot of that, and I had a really great second pregnancy. Like, felt very nourished, felt very strong, just had, I don't know, a totally different attitude about everything as well. And I just really wanted to have a totally different experience. Like, I didn't wanna be poked and prodded. You know? If I wanted to do labs, I would run them on myself because I I can order them and do them if I wanted to. And I didn't even do that very much because I was like, I feel well. My baby's growing. I can feel my fun like, my fundal height. That was the coolest thing for me, because I could feel it. Like, I'd lay on my back, and I could kinda, like, feel, okay. I'm bigger than a couple weeks ago. It was the coolest thing to just be able to have this low stress bubble that I was in. So and then I also had I found kind of in my area, like, there's this and it's just kinda underground network of, like, women who go to births, who are they're, you know, unlicensed, but they also I think the one that I actually used, she trained with Wapio, and then she may have been a graduate from your from your class at some point. But she was really awesome because she was just my, like, question person. Like, hey. What kind of like, I'm on a tub. What do you what do you recommend? You need some where you can grip it. Like, you just can grip that thing. So we got this, horse trough type of situation with a liner in it for the bedroom. And I got things ready how I wanted to. I was able to prepare how I wanted to. A very low stress. Like, I did not feel stressed like I did. You know, with my daughter, I cried every day through the like, literally from week twenty to week week thirty seven or whenever I was
Speaker 2
And could you articulate, like, just briefly what why you were crying every day? Like, what was under that?
Speaker 3
So that was I'm very I'm very empathetic too. I'm very sensitive. So in my mind, I was thinking to my child, I was thinking I'm failing her because I'm not you know, she is probably stressed because of all this stress I'm going under. Maybe my blood pressure is not good, and she's not growing. So I was kind of this I was scared that there's gonna be something wrong with, you know, wrong with her or that I was going to cause to harm her, which, ironically, the stress that I was under was causing more of the problem. Like, I've had the power to be like, no. This is not true. They're telling me something, but I didn't. So it was really
Speaker 2
just So due to your doctor visits, your midwife visits, and how they were pathologizing you, putting doubt in your mind, the way that they were speaking to you about you and your pregnancy was resulting in internalized stress, doubt, fear, and and and this is so important because, you know, women are so sensitive and vulnerable Yes. You know, period and in their pregnancy. Oh my god. We're in, like, a we're in in between worlds. You know? We're in such a a just a vulnerable state energetically, physically, and it's like going into what I'm trying to say is how this affects women's mental health isn't talked about. Right? Like, to go into these systems that treat you like shit, talk to you like shit, demean you, doubt you, don't respect you, and, of course, your mental health suffers. Right? Absolutely.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. It it crushes your your ability to make decisions that you feel like are true to what you would actually like and your intentions. And then, also, I feel like it set me up for feeling like like in the early motherhood. I mean, what kind of early motherhood
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
Journey is that? You're saying they're going, oh, do they need to eat? I don't know. Do what's wrong? Do I need to do you just your intuition is just shut down. You your, you know, ability to discern things, it they it's like they they nip that. They they start taking that during pregnancy, and then it spits you out after in postpartum, and you're like, I don't know anything. I don't know what to do. You know, you you you shut that sign off.
Speaker 2
So Obviously, the industry, like, gynecology starts doing that well before pregnancy. Right? Like Oh, yes. Your like, our wheel, you know, of assembly line to to outsource to the medical model, you know, and then in early motherhood, after birth trauma sets you up to go to the pediatrician and outsource all your questions to the pharmaceutical companies and the pediatricians that, you know, peddle it, and it just on and on it goes. So Yeah. I I do I do feel like since you have a self given PhD in preeclampsia, I do want to get some of that knowledge on this podcast. Can we just spend a little time there about what you learned and what, you know, like, give us your give us, like, a ten minute TED talk of of preeclampsia here because that is gonna be so helpful.
Speaker 3
Yes. I would love to. So preeclampsia, as we know, there's there's two different categories that they give. There's the eclampsia, which is you are actively having seizures, and it is very scary. And it's very rare to have the full blown eclampsia. Preeclampsia is a larger category that a lot of women are unintentionally funneled into and kind of categorized in that way that then they can have further interventions done, whether they actually would, you know, want those or even be seeking those out. They kind of get put in that category. There's also a third category that they refer to as HELLP syndrome, h e l l p, which refers to a different type of preeclampsia, but it's more related to high liver enzymes, elevated issues with the kidneys, the issues with the kidneys processing the blood filtering that out. And sometimes people will be categorized as having both of those, you know, preeclampsia and HELLP syndrome. But a lot of times they get funneled into that preeclampsia or the pre preeclampsia like I did. So but one of the things that I learned about this and this is it was actually interesting that in my daughter's pregnancy, my first pregnancy, I got exposed to little bits and pieces around right around that time when they were starting to pressure me about my blood pressure and, you know, oh, it's high in office. We don't care that it's low at home. We we we don't trust you. We think you're an idiot. But in our office, it says this, so therefore, you know, I learned not only that it matters in terms of, again, nutrition, making sure you're eating enough food, making sure that you are getting salt. The biggest thing they tell women is who have preeclampsia is that you need to eliminate you know, need to eat low sodium. Right? And you need to, you know, watch your calories and make sure you're not gaining too much weight. Right? That's their their little thing that they will say. And what I learned in my research was that salt is extremely essential, and women who have preeclampsia, oftentimes, they need even more because it is a stress reaction of the body that is contributing to that nervous system spike when they go on the doctor and it is high, or they're at home and it is high. It is a systemic issue with a stress response, and it's an issue where the blood volume because, you know, women are supposed to like, we're we're literally making, you know, our our a lot more blood when we're pregnant. Forty to fifty percent, some say, within that and more for, you know, multiples. And so we're growing that blood volume. We're nourishing that through the nutrition that we're taking in, especially proteins as well, with sodium and other minerals as well, including potassium, which later we'll get into the sodium and potassium ratio, which is like my favorite. It's one of my favorite things to talk about because it affects every cell on your entire body. But essentially, with this, you're growing that blood volume. And if a woman is not eating, they're being shamed out their weight. They're having their body mass index written on their little chart with how much you weigh. They're being badgered about that. They're unintentionally not nourishing themselves enough, plus they're not getting enough salt, what can happen is at a certain level of pregnancy, their body will start to go, oh, we actually don't have enough of this blood volume that we really want and need to nourish our child and and nourish this this baby. So it will end up the blood vessels will become more narrow. They can kinda get more narrow because there's not enough blood there. It's expecting more, and we don't have enough blood. So it's actually ends up creating this physiological situation where we needed that blood volume. It's not there. So what one of the researchers I like a lot, is there's a doctor doctor Margaret I forget what her she's she was a she's an OB in London. But she's a doctor actually, in Lily Nichols' real food for pregnancy. She cites this. And then in, Tom Brewer's work, he cites it as well. She actually found that women who would be in the state, they would be in what they would call a hypovolemic shock where their body is like, we don't have enough blood. It's panicking, and it is trying to compensate for that with hormonal changes, with with excretion of salt from the body, which then requires more salt. And this, this particular doctor, she found out in it is in London in the fifties. She found out that women who had decreased their salt intake, they actually saw more problems with blood pressure and also fetal growth too. And it all goes back to that blood volume, the restriction, being told by your doctor. It's like they set you up to a
Speaker 2
pale with their advice. And It is like that, isn't it?
Speaker 3
Yeah. And she even found that, that women who had four teaspoon that this is a lot of salt. Okay? Women who had preeclampsia symptoms, if they had, you know, regular meals, they, you know, maybe they're being fed regular meals plus they had over four teaspoons of salt per day, it would spontaneously their preeclampsia symptoms and pathologies, quote, unquote, would go away. Wow. And it just blew I read that and I was like, so I need to be making sure I'm eating enough, making sure that I'm, you know, getting adequate salt to help support that osmotic pressure, the building of the blood volume. And all that's gonna work synergistically because if your blood's well nourished, you've got enough of it, the baby's gonna grow well. There's going to be you know, your your blood vessels are not going to narrow because they're like, woah. We've gotta fill the because, you know, with blood, it's gotta fill the entire blood vessel. So if you, you know, if if it's getting narrower, the pressure will be higher. And if the blood vessel is, you know, like a like, real big and and dilated, it if you have enough blood to fill that capacity. So it's basically you wanna have, you know, nice blood vessels that are dilated, that are filled with the blood volume, and not skinny that are having to compensate and go, oh, we don't have an embolism. We gotta get we gotta get skinnier. We gotta get smaller. Because people treat preeclampsia, and and this is where it drives me nuts. And I could go, like, on and on about this. But the thing that drives me crazy is that the modern system, they are like, well, we don't know what causes frequent we we we just don't know what caused it. It just kinda falls out of the sky on you. Oh, it's the placenta's fault. Yeah. And that's that's the thing that kills me is that they'll be, oh, it's the placenta's fault. You know, the placenta develops wrong. It's the man's sperm. Something's wrong with that. Oh. And the placenta like, it's so it's just dumb. Like, this is not, like, they just are with blinders on. They don't wanna know this stuff that is actually, like, profoundly beneficial for women. And then, of course, with with most women, they're restricting all this. When you restrict, you know, how much food you're getting and you're not getting enough protein, your overall nutrient intake goes down overall. So then you're not getting enough potassium, which is also important. You're not getting enough zinc and copper and magnesium. And it's just yeah. It just ends up being a big mess. And then people are surprised with the diagnosis. Oftentimes, preeclampsia is diagnosed, quote, unquote, by the medical system. The most common time frame is gonna be from week thirty to week thirty four. Mhmm. And that is the time when your blood volume is peaking. It's like peaking, peak time, like, all the work that's happened before then, that's, like, one of the peak times of of blood volume. And so it's not there. Like, the blood volume is not there, so then the body starts to respond. And then you start
Speaker 2
having that. And we're talking about, like, air quotes, real preeclampsia here because then we've also established that then there's this whole, you know, charade game happening around it where women are just like you. You know? It's just, oh, one high BP. You're preeclampsia. You're preeclampsia. You're preeclampsia.
Speaker 3
Everybody gets a preeclampsia.
Speaker 2
Everybody gets it. It's a great scapegoat. It really is. And, of course, they're not incentivized to learn about it and educate about it because it's such a good scapegoat.
Speaker 3
Yes. Absolutely. It's per it's perfect because you're stressed going into the doctor's office. Oh, your blood pressure's over this particular mark.
Speaker 2
Let's get that baby out.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so in my first pregnancy, they literally after the first two or three visits that I went there, they literally marked on my chart. And this this pissed me off. I was like, how dare you? They wrote on my chart, gestational hypertension, primary, meaning, like, oh, you had this before too as well. And then, you know, management of high risk I'm like, I am twenty six years old at the time. I was like, I am twenty six years old. I probably eat better than ninety eight percent of your patients in this office, and you're going to put that on my chart. And then, of course, they were they they made it hard for me to get my notes. Right? So I could see all this stuff that they're that they're saying about me on there. It just it lit a fire under my butt to be like, I'm never and and to this day, I've helped women who they're told by their provider. They're you know, sell all this stuff, and I give them some help on that. The other thing that's not talked about with this, one other thing is the blood pressure itself. Again, I have a problem with a lot of the way they do diagnostics anyway. Huge problems. But with this one in particular, I have yet to, in those years that I went to those appointments, see a doctor or a nurse actually take a blood pressure in a proper manner. They do not have you the the general rules for blood pressure, because, again, I have I literally went down the rabbit hole on this. The rules for it, you need to be sitting at a ninety degree angle with your feet planted on the ground. Your arms level out at a ninety degree angle as well. You need to sit there for five minutes without talking to anybody.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
K? And then they need to have the right size cuff for you. So if women have, you know, larger bodied women, you use a small cuff on them, they're gonna have high blood pressure, which really makes you wonder. Right? So Uh-huh. They they did none of that. I would oftentimes be asked questions while I had the cuff on. Mhmm. And, I would you know, or my feet are dangling. I'm sitting on a thing and my feet are dangling. And my husband was like, they aren't even taking it correctly. How can they even say that this is remotely accurate given you know? And my husband even, I had a cuff at the time, and he brought it home and he put it on himself. And he, like, tensed his arm up really. And he was like, oh, look. One ninety five over over a hundred and twelve. This is this is nonsense. So, like, he had just Preeclampsia. Yes. He actually made that joke. He was like, well, maybe I have it too, and I should get you. So he just he was going to see some of that too. But also true eclampsia. If you have true eclampsia or really bad, you know, even if they say you have preeclampsia. If you if it comes down, if your blood pressure you go home from that doctor's appointment and you're at home and it's normal, you do not, like, you do not have an issue there. Like, you don't. If you had the true kind, it would be high if you're taking it when you're laying on your left side. It'd be high when you go here, high when you go there. It would actually be not able to, you know, amount of, like, relaxation would actually help it. So and that's rare. That's actually more rare than the fluctuations that people will have.
Speaker 2
So Yeah. There was a birth I attended as a doula long time ago where
Speaker 3
one of
Speaker 2
the most scary, scariest things I've ever seen, and she had seizures Mhmm. And grand mal seizures while pushing, you know, rushed to the OR, had more seizures, baby gets, you know, flown to some fancy, you know, hospital to be, you know, frozen to prevent brain damage. Brain oh my god. I can't talk this morning. Brain damage.
Speaker 3
But
Speaker 2
that story, that woman in hindsight was labeled as essentially missed eclampsia, like, that it that it got missed.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But afterwards, I started researching Servedil, which she was given.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes.
Speaker 2
Which no one tells you one of the side effects to Servedil is seizures.
Speaker 3
That is crazy. I did not know that. Wow.
Speaker 2
No one knows that.
Speaker 3
Well, wow. That makes sense. Like
Speaker 2
Also, sorry to be annoying. I'm gonna correct you. Primary just means you're a first time mom.
Speaker 3
Yes. Oka okay. Gotcha. That actually makes me feel better. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It doesn't mean before. It just means, Perfect. Yeah. It was your first day. Okay. So thank you for the the little dive into what is true about preeclampsia. So let's shift into your free birth, that pregnancy, that birth story, and and minerals.
Speaker 3
Yes. So, so, yeah, I got pregnant very soon after, ten month old, terrified. But I gradually got reacquainted with, you know, understanding my own intuition, own ways that I was feeling like I wanted to do things. I would be the first person to, like, not, you know, birth in a hospital or birth center. Like, in a I don't even know. I I don't even know. My grandma had all of her babies at the hospital, and, you know, every pretty much everyone did. Although my mom my mom is a rock star. Okay? She I'm oldest of eight. Right? She had her youngest baby at forty seven. You wanna know how much they, I mean, they pathologize the heck out of that. Oh, you're so old. Oh, you know, I'm twenty years, twenty years older than my youngest sister. Twenty or twenty two. I can't remember. So there's a big gap. Like, we're bookended, then there's all boys in there, one other girl, and then a girl on the end. Wow. And mom my mom so and my mom did have hers at the hospital, but she's one where she never had any like, she was very much her own person. She never had no drugs at all. Ever ever. No potatoes
Speaker 2
at all. Crazy to me that those women who are popping them out, who have that embodiment still leave.
Speaker 3
Right. Right. Exactly. So she was one who was just like I I don't like, she's just very like, no. We're not doing that. No. We're not doing that. I'm forty seven. Thank you very much. You know, leave me alone. Basically, that was her her attitude. So I knew that, like, and I knew that from my birth, like, it had the birthing process, I I was like, I wanna do that somewhere where I'm most comfortable. I am not comfortable at the hospital. I'm not comfortable at the doctor's office. If I walk in a door, my my, like, alarm bells just go off, like, an office. I was like, I'm not doing it. So, so yeah. But that pregnancy was very uneventful. I ate really well. Again, I did my salt. I did my potassium. I took a really good, support for magnesium. I was just intentional about all those areas that I wasn't before because I was so busy being stressed and crying every day and not eating, you know. But I was
Speaker 2
not thinking for yourself.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I was letting my outsourcing my brain to someone else who didn't have my best interest in mind or understand, yeah, understand anything about true physiological words. Like, no no clue. So but yeah. So I, like I said, plugged in my little my little underground and was like, oh, wow. Wow. There's actually other people who are doing this, you know, because oh, and people would say, oh, in your state, you know, it's hard because, you know, you have to find so if you want someone to have support, like, and just moral support, that is not gonna interfere. Right? You have to oh, you know, unlicensed versus licensed for all the midwife stuff. And so I was like, I wanna find someone who is understands physiological birth. Maybe she's been through training like she this particular one had been, done some training with Wapio. She was not licensed that actually ended up helping me. And by helping, I mean, doing nothing because I just wanted, like, a person who was not going to interfere, not going to check you know, basically, just nothing. I just was like, I'm basically gonna be doing this, and this person's gonna be, you know, either on, like, on the phone or in the living room knitting, just out of the way so I can do my thing. Because I do not do well with again, that that, like, people touching me and So why
Speaker 2
have someone at all then?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I decided that for this one, having that out of the hospital, the first time I'd done that, I just needed someone who was like, girl, you're doing this. And in fact, the best part of that whole labor, which I'll get to later, was, you know, me about to have the baby and her, like I was like, I can't do I was like, you know, she's just watching. She's like in the doorway. And and I was like, I
Speaker 2
can do this. I can
Speaker 3
do this. And they're like, girl, you're doing it. You are doing this. This is happening. And it just I I think back on that, and I'm just like, so I wanted a wise person Support. Woman who was not gonna touch me and not do all that. So
Speaker 2
but the cool thing about Yeah. And I and I I think that it's really redemptive and healing for a woman who first goes through such bullshit care to then rewrite that with an authentic woman, with a with a with a sister, with someone in integrity to to actually go through the process of and I'm not saying everyone needs this, but I do think when women choose it to hire someone and then rewrite that script that, like, you're not crazy. Yes. People do show up in an appropriate way and and can be the actual support in birth you're looking for. I think there's a lot of healing in having that.
Speaker 3
Having that. And for me, I knew for myself that from all the trauma, like, of all that prior, like, I'll probably feel and I'm currently pregnant with my third, and I'm due in a couple months. And I feel totally different this time. Like, I'm I just I'm on a different plane than last time. I I I just the way that I'm thinking about things. So it's really cool even looking back on that and thinking, you know, I was ready. I was ready to take the plunge. I needed, like, a a voice in the room that was just, hey, girl. You got it. And Totally. That's what she was. So I went into labor the day that I so it's forty weeks and five days, and I was so thrilled to get that far because before I had I didn't realize how much I mourned not having her in there longer. Like, it was so sad for me to think of her like, she's not ready. And so for this baby, forty weeks and five days again, didn't know the gender, didn't know anything. Took my daughter to the park that morning, came back home. I actually had an acupuncture appointment scheduled for that day. And I was driving into the acupuncture appointment and down a little highway, and I started having contractions. And I was like, I mean, I hadn't really had, you know, a lot of Braxton Hicks yet. I was like, we'll see. Like, no no contraction action before that. So I got to the acupuncture place. She sticks the needles in, and I have more. And I'm laying there on the table, and I can feel when the contraction happens. I can feel it through the needles that she had because she has, like, uterus and kidney. Like, I could feel it through, and I was like, this feels like I'm mild to being a little bit. I was like, this feels like mild electrocution. I don't think Yeah. I'm lying there. And then also what's really funny is that she told me she could take your pulse, you know, and know if it's a boy or girl. Right? So she's like, oh, I definitely if you wanna know, I definitely think it's a girl. And, of course, I was so mad because I was like, I don't wanna I don't wanna eat that in my thank you very much. I wanna just try
Speaker 2
that now. She just, like she just did that? She just said that?
Speaker 3
Yeah. She just said that.
Speaker 2
And I was like a, she's wrong. B, oh my god. Right.
Speaker 3
And so I'm laying there, and I'm like, my brain is doing my brain is doing little jumping like, what? So I I, like, tuned that out. I was like, okay. That's stupid, but I'm just gonna ignore. So, you know, did that, drove home, and they were kinda coming. You know? They they they were coming and and getting a little more. And then I I got home in, like, in the afternoon. So it's about six thirty. I called my husband who works about, forty five minutes away. And it's so funny because he'd been calling me, like, every day. How are you doing? You know? He's, like, real, like, okay. Alright. I'm ready. Because he had turned into, like, he's just a rock star. He turned from being, you know, both of us kind of unsure. And in this pregnancy, he was like, I am the man. I am the supportive man. I am here. Let me help you. Like and everyone like, even though she was like, you you you rock. Like, you know you're just with it. And it's just so funny because it's night and day. It's just night and day. But I'm calling my husband on the phone. And, again, he'd been checking on me for days, you know, like like, hey. How you doing? Like, getting the vibes, you know, a couple times a day. And then when I finally tell him, hey. These are, like, coming pretty these are coming pretty regularly. I think you might wanna start coming home. It's like, okay. I've got a couple things to finish, but I I'll be on my way in a bit. And I'm like, hey. You have been at my, like, beck and call trying to figure out when I'm gonna when I'm gonna have this baby. And now it's like, oh, it's time, and you're like, I got a couple things to fit. I'll be there in a little while. So, anyway, I, put on my headphones, and I put on some so I was a competitive swimmer when I was, in my teenage years, late late teens. And so I I I like music that's kind of pump up music. So I literally put on, like, my pump up songs, and I, like, cleaned the house and I did a bunch of stuff. She's like, I was excited. I was just like, I think this is it. I really do think this is it. And then I had a little bit of blood and I was like, alright. Okay. I think we maybe something's happening. So let's see. After that, it just kinda started it was just very it was very gradual. It was very doable compared to the hospital.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You had pitocin for day.
Speaker 3
I know. So I was like, even, you know, when they're getting closer, they're like three minutes apart. I was like, I get a break in between? This is awesome.
Speaker 2
Wow. For real, man. That's such a good a good thing for women to hear if your primary birth was an induction. You are
Speaker 3
in for a treat. Yes. I would love for people to know that. If you had pitocin with a birth and it felt like you're getting hit with a truck, nonstop. That is not birth, and you can do it. I was literally like, I'm rocking this. I'm doing this. And then I had one contraction come through where I was laying down, and it was still kinda like, oh, okay. And so at that point, I was like, hey. Go get her on the phone. You're the the woman who's gonna support me. I was like, go get her on the phone and kinda tell her the deal. And, you know, just, like, okay. Yeah. Keep her going. You know? Because he he was just unsure too about things. But I literally just did my thing. I basically spent most of my time in our walk in closet with a person ball. Like, I was here literally a cave. I literally went to a cave. And then I asked her. I was like, hey. You know, when I get really, really close or, like, right after, I and I kinda want you around, then I don't want you around yeah. Yeah. I don't want anybody around before that. Even and I had my mom come as well, and she was like, she took photos, like,
Speaker 2
of mom?
Speaker 3
Oh, yes.
Speaker 0
Aw.
Speaker 2
And, I
Speaker 3
mean, she just standing back there take I have pictures of right when he is coming out. Aw. I and right aft anyway. So she came a little bit later. But, literally, they were there for maybe maybe an hour and a half or less.
Speaker 2
Did you did you birth your baby in a closet?
Speaker 3
I did not. I probably could have. I love that.
Speaker 2
Want you to say yes.
Speaker 3
Love that closet. I know. I and so it's like this walking it has clothes on either side and a little window. And I literally just I closed the I closed the door. I just I closed the door. And I'm, like, just in there, and then I have my my husband come in and kinda be like, hey. How you doing? You know, do you need anything? Here's the fruit snacks that you picked out. And I, like, at at one point, he brought me those fruit snacks, and I threw him in his face. I was like, these are disgusting. I can't believe you don't put me that. And he was like How dare you? He quit. He was like, I think we're getting so but I just kinda did my thing even when they were very close, you know, two minutes apart or less. I again, I was learning, like, I get a break.
Speaker 2
I get a break. This is so cool. Like, I'm actually not feeling
Speaker 3
thin right now. I can change my decision. Okay. Here comes another one. Alright. You know?
Speaker 2
I mean, it really it it's something I think about a lot that it's really this is a pretty dark comparison, but it's also really accurate. It's like, if you've only known sexual assault to then have, like, beautiful, respectful, consensual sex Yeah. Is like, oh. Oh. Yeah.
Speaker 3
This is the completely
Speaker 2
different yeah.
Speaker 3
It's this like, this is what this can be. You know? And that's what I I was just thinking back to the other comparing it in my mind. Like, this is the wow. And so really and, again, I was just I'm like, the everybody else was I think my, my mom was, like, prepping some food for you know, she was, like, getting some stuff ready for after I had the baby so she could bring it into me. They're all just hanging out. Those two, because that's all who's there. They were in the living room, and I was in the back bedroom in the closet, the primary little cave that I made. And then at some point, I kinda said I wanted to get in the pool. And so my husband had that filled up. It was again that that little horse trough, like, Rubbermaid that I could grip. So really the last thirty minutes of the birth was in the pool, maybe maybe forty minutes when I got in. So it was, like, good timing for that. But, really, it's just so weird how in those last bits, you're literally like, I've heard you say this before too. You're in between worlds. You're literally, like, out of it, but you're there. Like, it's just such a trippy, crazy experience. And I got to experience all that because it was very much, like, I was uninterrupted. No one was like, hey. I need to check that nothing. And so I'm I'm in there, and I'm, you know, feeling these surges. I mean, it was I I was really vocalizing him and and stuff, and she could they could all hear me out there, and they're like, oh, so so good. You know? My mom was like, oh, yeah. She's getting there. You know? And so I'm in there just rocking it out, and, my husband's there. He's kind of in the he's like, he's he's around if I need him, but he's kinda stand back because he knows that's kinda what I wanted. So at one point, I had a real strong one come through, and I felt a little bit, like, a little bit grunty, a little bit like that. And I look up, and she's in the doorway. And she's like, you're rocking it. And she said, you know, she said, you feeling like you feel I feel a little grunty. You sound like you were grunty. I was like, yeah. And then I threw up. I was like and I literally threw up, and I was like, yes. This means I'm getting close. I feel like I can't do anymore. I know I'm getting close. And I actually think I said, I don't feel like I can do this anymore two seconds before he came out. And then Yeah.
Speaker 2
Of course. I was like I can't tell you how many second time moms call me that are, like, friends of mine or whatever, and they call me and they're like, the baby's not coming down. They're so high. It's definitely stuck. It's just so high. And literally, like, within ten minutes, the baby will be out.
Speaker 3
That's literally me. Yeah. So I was in there, and and then what's really cool is I decided I was like, you know what? I wonder if I could feel anything in there. And she was like, yeah. Why not you know? You you see if you feel anything. So I, like, reach up, and I'm like, oh, there's something feels like a water balloon in here. And she was like, great. That's awesome. You do you know, do what you wanna do. What you wanna do? You know, feel like next one, you wanna, grunt more or whatever. She I don't even remember if she said that, but that's, like, in my brain, it was like, I'm gonna see what happens for this next one. So I felt kinda grunty. And I had the full blown I know I don't even know if this is still technically a term, but that, like, fetal like, the fetal ejection, like, where you're not pushing, but it's just happening, where you're like it's just moving through you. I was not like, okay. Because I had coach pushing with my son and or with my daughter. With your daughter. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It
Speaker 3
was like just total wow. This this baby is coming out, and I and that's when I was a little bit, like, holding on to the edge of the and I was like, well, that was the trippiest when, you know, when the head kinda hits those pelvic I was like, woah. And I remember asking I was like, I can't I don't think I could do this. And, again, their voice and that's it just gives me chills because that's exactly what, like, my mom and this woman, they're in the doorway, and they're like, you've got this. I can almost see the head. You've got it. And I just was like, that's what I need. I didn't want someone up in my business, but I wanted to, like, have that voice in the background. Girl, you've got it. And then literally, again, I I think it was only head came out thirty seconds later, just the whole body got him up. And I in my mind, again, I'm thinking prior to when he came out, when I felt that huge pressure, I was thinking, oh gosh. You know, I know women who push for two hours for three hours before. I was like, oh, no. It's gonna be a while. Like and that's what made me panic. See, again, you get this in your head. This is how like, I've heard this or heard that, and it kinda makes you, second guess maybe what your own body is experiencing. But for me, I was like, oh, it's gonna be a while. I don't know if I could do this. And that's why I said, I don't know if I could do this. And then he was literally out. And I have a picture of him that my mom took, and he's just on, like, on my chest. And I mean, the look on my face, I've, like,
Speaker 2
boom. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Of course. See that, like, I literally like, my mouth is open as wide as it could be. I'm like, like and my husband and and I love this because I actually did one of Wapio's trainings that she did earlier this year, and she talks about how the father is kind of the archangel where he can kinda be the the supportive person that's behind the mother. And so in that photo, he's, like, he's in the background behind. He's not, like, smothering me, but he's just peaceful presence behind me and behind the baby. And I was just like, I love that picture. It's my favorite picture because it's just all the Although you are
Speaker 2
you are making his body look like he was a scarecrow.
Speaker 3
Okay. I like that. Yes. But, basically, his arms are kind of around, and he's just That's beautiful. But it was so sweet. Like, it was just and he was so proud of me. I mean, he went and told all his coworkers, you know, and who are who you know, they don't understand any of this, but he was like, yeah. She had the baby in the back bedroom. It's awesome. So so then after that, placenta birth, like, very, very quick. I don't even remember how long it was, but I didn't even I was just I was literally so I was, like, on cloud nine. I just felt like I was so high. I literally felt like I was, like, on some kind of a high for several months. Mhmm. I mean, I was walking around, like, telling people about everything. And, like, oh my gosh. This is so amazing. And this is just crazy. Like, I was on, like, that total and I never got that after my daughter. It was What's that? Woah. But it was the full blown, full hormonal, all that good stuff. And he was very healthy, strong little guy. And then he and it took me thirty minutes to check to see if it was a boy or a girl.
Speaker 2
Love that.
Speaker 3
I hope that it was a boy. The acupuncturist was wrong. I had hoped that he was a boy, and he was. And I was so thrilled. I was just, but it's great. And the best part is my daughter, who was nineteen months at the time, she was sleeping in the bedroom nearby, and she was, you know, she just slept, woke up in the morning. Oh, I have a new brother. You know? And we were there in the bed immediately. We moved right to the bed. My mom brought me some, like, scrambled eggs and toast and stuff. It was really nice. And I have another picture of my husband and I laying in the bed with the baby, in the middle. And I just let yeah. I I thinking back on that, it's just so much fun to think about. But it was just total one total one eighty. Total where I was not, I never felt like I was being observed or poked apart. Like, nothing. I just
Speaker 2
Of course not.
Speaker 3
What I wanted to do, and I felt really great about all of that experience. I literally told my husband, like, three hours later. I was like, I can't wait till we get to do that again. That was so much fun. And he was like he was like, maybe give yourself a couple of weeks. Like, you just had two babies in nineteen months. But it's interesting that we actually had a longer gap between my son and the baby that I'm pregnant with now. But I But I
Speaker 2
do think that the design is intended to render women wanting more. Yes. Yes. I think that that's a really doesn't mean you're gonna actually do
Speaker 3
it
Speaker 2
next month, but I think, you know, emerging from an intact birth is like Yeah. You have a yes. You know? You don't usually have a no.
Speaker 3
Right. Right. It was just this wow. I can't wait to do that again. Like, I could I wanna do that over and over. That was just the best. Like, I just I always felt really like, I felt good, and I was like, I did that. And, of course, I'm this person. You know, people bringing me meals, And I'm like, why are you telling me, no. This is so great. They're probably like, what? You know? Because everyone on, like, the whole area that we were living in, you know, the house we were renting, the the joke is now, it's like, oh, that's the baby house, you know, because no one else has had a baby in that house. Right. So I have a there's a special place in my heart for that little that little apartment. Yes. So after I had my son, again, I worked with minerals, like, throughout that pregnancy. I was more intentional about it. I had learned all about preeclampsia and was able to, you know, understand. And that takes a lot when you have the knowledge, it takes a lot of that fear. You know, like the the like, oh, this is gonna fall out of the sky upon me. Oh, postpartum anxiety is just gonna fall upon the and depression is just gonna fall from the sky, which my daughter after her, I did have more anxiety. Didn't have much of the depression.
Speaker 2
Of course. Yeah. Like, you You also had four days of Pitocin.
Speaker 3
Exactly. So it's like, no wonder. But with my son, literally, like, I feel like that's and I was like, this is how it's supposed to be. I'm supposed to feel
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Really vital, very connected to my kids, and my husband's there supporting me. I was like, this is how this is how should feel. So, again, after I had him, I was really intentional too on, you know, nourish nourishment, like, lots of warming foods, lots of things that were going to be, again, rich in minerals. Because with minerals for women who are pregnant and even women who are postpartum, it's so important. Because every pregnancy, you're gonna have about ten percent, they they estimate, of your mineral stores, your body's mineral stores, which are gonna be in your bones, in your tissue. You're gonna have about ten percent of that is, you know, your baby is getting. And interestingly, in the third trimester, there's a certain point where your body is actually going to mobilize these metals and will bring them to the baby. And I've actually seen that happen because I do the testing, the hair and tissue mineral analysis where you can see the shifts in the the hair tissue levels, which represents that cellular. You know, they give us a snapshot of the cell blueprint of what's going on. And I've actually seen that on like, seen that happening in real time at least from what we can observe of it. And it's just fascinating. You know, zinc and copper, it's all mobilized. Magnesium's brought in. Iron, it's all going to be brought and kind of downloaded to the baby. So you start life with this mineral store that you've been given from your mom. And even, I believe, that you can also get some from the father as well because they're obviously contributing genetic material. And the genes and the proteins that make up of those, you know, there's minerals that play a role there as well. So you're getting this bequeathment of, this trust fund of minerals that you get. And so for for me, you know, who knows what I started out with, but I was like, I wanna make sure that for my children and even through breastfeeding that I am supporting that and that I am replenishing myself so I can be my most vital and have my most energy to, you know, give my time to these areas that need to be. So, including things like, again, the salt. So for example, people will say, oh, salt's bad. You know? It's not good. And in pregnancy, we already know that. But with salt, if you can get something that is, you know, has a lot of, like, minerals in it, like, it's actual sea salt. That's not what you get, you know, on the table at a restaurant. You can get something that actually has quite a bit of other minerals in it like magnesium and boron, and even zinc and some of these other minerals. You can actually get additional minerals just by salting the food, just by adding a pinch to your water. That adds more more minerals to what you're taking in, which then supports hydration, and the health of the cells. Because sodium and sea salt, they really this this mineral sodium has to be balanced by potassium. And so this is one of my biggest things that I think is most important. Like, people leave with something. There there's a couple things that this is one of them is the balance between sodium and potassium. So we need in ourselves to have a good balance of these two because they are very important for, the sodium and potassium pump that's at that cell. So you have all these trillions and trillions of cells. They're like little, analogous to, like, little batteries. And the minerals ionize the liquid that's there and cause it to conduct energy. And then we need a certain balance of sodium and potassium to be able to bring out waste and bring in nutrients through the cell. And, of course, that's very important. We wanna make sure we have a balance of that. A lot of people will have an imbalance where they have more sodium coming in, but they're not getting out of potassium. Most of these electrolyte mixes that are out there are mostly sodium and tiny little bit of magnesium, tiny little bit of potassium. They're not actually a good mix of that. And so for people who, you know, wanna take home, you know, getting sodium is important. Like, getting, you know, at least maybe three quarters to a teaspoon of salt per day, like, spread throughout the day. There's actually differ different, you know, ranges by trimester too because that blood volume, you you can increase. If someone's craving salt, there's a reason. There's a reason you're craving salt. Like, it's because you need that your adrenal glands for all these other areas. So potassium is the perfect pair to that because it helps us balance out the sodium and it also performs different functions in the cells that are going to help with the energetic potential of the cell. But most people get more sodium and not enough potassium. So for women especially, I feel like in pregnancy, I'll have women where they feel like they have less aches and pains when they have a good balance of potassium in there because potassium is very relaxing mineral too similar to magnesium. But people can get that really and there's a lot of whole foods that people can get it in. So things like coconut water, things like potatoes, squashes, like, you know, especially the time of year when it is full using squashes. In the summer, lots of these fresh fruits that are just really ripe and delicious, those are gonna have higher amounts of potassium. And including that in with the sodium can be so helpful for people to make sure that they're actually getting a balance. Because we actually need around two to three times more potassium than we do sodium in terms of what we're getting in, in, you know, how much how many milligrams. So, that's really important because I feel like people can get that nailed down. I mean, if your cells work better and they can bring in bring in nutrients and bring out waste better, then, you know, everything else in the body because the cells make up the tissues that make up the organs that make up the body system, then everything can function better. So but also for women too in terms of really nutrient dense foods. So we know, of course, anything that is, you know, actual whole food is gonna be wonderful. Things like seafood will, seafood and even I like to call seafood the organ meat of this of the ocean because they have all of these nutrients and minerals like iodine, selenium, zinc, copper. They also have, b vitamins as well. There are certain ones that have more of those. They're very energizing. So including things like that. Of course, we know organ meats. Ancestrally, people would eat those along with the other parts of the meat. Now we just eat the white chicken breast, and we throw away the chicken liver and anything else there. We just toss that aside because we don't know what to do with it. But back then, they would be sprinkling in these organ meats with the rest of the animal that they'd be consuming. And then, of course, eggs are really wonderful. They have a lot of nutrients in them. I personally like pregnant women to have, you know, like, multiple eggs per day, especially if they crave them or they really like them. But those are some of the ones too that I like to see people incorporating, in terms of getting some higher density, you know, higher nutrient density, into their into what they're eating during pregnancy or postpartum. Because it really does matter for your energy and your ability to detoxify, as well. So
Speaker 2
So what are some good sources for magnesium, zinc, copper?
Speaker 3
Yes. So for magnesium, this is one where you can get it from food. So you can get it in things. Actually, cocoa powder, cacao powder has quite a bit of magnesium, and it also has copper. It actually has a balance of those two. So interestingly, women who will crave it around the time of their cycle, you're looking for magnesium and copper. Like, you're you're seeking that out. And then there are a lot of, like, dark leafy greens when they're cooked well. Magnesium is gonna be, in those as well. And it can also be found in certain salts. So there's certain salts that'll have higher amounts of magnesium. It'll say on the label, you know, the percentage of, you know, I don't believe in the whole daily value thing because we're all so unique, but it will have more of that magnesium in it too. And then even, using things like, certain fruits that have a higher content, like, a higher water content will oftentimes have little bits of trace minerals, and we even have phosphorus in it with a little bit of magnesium and potassium. And you said copper was another one that, that you wanted to have info on. So copper is one where, oysters actually have quite a bit. And my hack for people for for eating oysters is you get a can of the smoked oysters, and you chop them up. You drain them from the oil because they're in olive oil. You chop them up and you can add them to meatloaf. You can add them to burgers. You add enough seasoning in there. You're never gonna know they're in there and you're getting extra copper. Oysters also have zinc in them too. So that's, like, one of those ones where it's But,
Speaker 2
like, do I need to eat the oysters every day, week, or month? Like, what them a couple times a week.
Speaker 3
Yes. So, usually, my recommendation for oysters is a couple times a week, like, even twice a week mixed in with everything else. Week to eat oysters. Not necessarily fresh though. I know. Not necessarily fresh because Yeah.
Speaker 2
You're saying sprinkle them in.
Speaker 3
Harder. But yeah. Or or rather raw is harder too. Now beef liver is another one that's high in copper. Mushrooms are actually high in copper too. Lentils, spinach, those type of legumes, they're gonna be higher in copper. And then zinc. So really, protein, like, complete animal proteins are a really good source of zinc too. Oysters are, but but also eggs. Lamb is especially high in zinc. It's one of those where it tends to be higher in that, than others. But I really like to have people kind of you get that get just a variety of those those more dense foods in there to really support. Was there any other besides the zinc, zinc, copper, and magnesium? Or was that No.
Speaker 2
But I I did wanna ask you what you think about raw milk.
Speaker 3
Oh, love raw milk. I drink so much milk right now.
Speaker 2
And and can you kind of just quickly break down why? And, like, why we would never drink pasteurized milk?
Speaker 3
Yes. So there's a big there's debates on that, raw pasteurized. For me, the you know, when you pasteurize something, you're denaturing a lot of what's in there. You're denaturing the protein. You're denaturing the enzymes that even help you digest milk, which is just So dumb. It's so dumb. I know. So it's like we break those down and then it's just terrible. So and also, there's evidence too that when you pasteurize, it decreases the bioavailability of some things like the retinol, the vitamin a that it has in there. You just you lose some nutrition and all for convenience so the the companies can ship them around and not have to worry about them spoiling. And then they homogenize it, which is a whole other problem, which then is gonna make it, you know, those fat globules be evenly dispersed just because people don't wanna shake their milk. Right? Like, just because they don't wanna have to go shake the cream in. Oh, it's I can't be bothered. I must destroy the milk.
Speaker 2
Well and we're we're programmed to think that's gross and to be afraid of it.
Speaker 3
Like, oh, this has chunks of cream in it. How dare this? So Yeah.
Speaker 2
And then they buy the whipping cream and the half and half.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 2
So So okay. So then what so raw milk, why is that good for us? What's in it? And then we can close with that.
Speaker 3
Raw milk is just it's kind of a superfood. Like, because of the it has magnesium. It has calcium. It has phosphorus. It has retinol. It has, other, like, smaller nutrients. It even has iodine. Like, it actually has iodine content because whatever that cow is eating, it they have this magical ability to transmutate some of that into the milk. So you're getting all these nutrients. You're also getting fat soluble vitamins like vitamin a in there. I love it. I think for pregnant women, it's like such a nourishing food. I do a lot of it. I I joke I'm the dairy queen. Like, I literally I love it. And cheese is well, raw cheese, like, I'm just all about it. So if people can find that locally, it takes some digging. Like, it takes to find a network of people who are supportive of birth choices of all different kinds. You have to, you know, do a little digging to find a source for it, but it is
Speaker 2
so like Facebook groups now that help you source it. There's websites and, you know, pet stores will sell it and say not for human consumption.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's not for human consumption. Yeah. Okay. On the label. But it's and also the calcium, like, one little note on calcium. Calcium is a calming mineral. So it's one of these where it works with magnesium. It's so calming to your body. It's calming to your nervous system. If you have too little calcium in your tissues, your nervous system is going to be more tipped in the direction of fight or flight. So oftentimes for people again, what do we do? Don't eat dairy. It's bad. Don't eat, you know, anything that has too
Speaker 2
much fat, no fat.
Speaker 3
And it's just like no. So it's just so nourishing, and the calcium is so calming. And I think for women in pregnancy, it's great to have more calming elements like calcium in there as well. So it's just a beautiful food, and I personally love it. And my kids drink it, and we all we all enjoy it. So, yeah, it's a great food.
Speaker 2
Love it. Okay. Cool. Thank you. That was so fun. Your joy is contagious.
Speaker 3
Oh, thank you. So excited for
Speaker 2
this baby in your next story, and let's put you on the spot. Do you wanna come to MRF?
Speaker 3
Oh, man. When is it?
Speaker 2
Next year? Over the solstice in June. So you'll totally have a little six month.
Speaker 3
Have a little baby. I need to I need to try to come because it's not too far from
Speaker 2
Everyone comes with their babies. I realize they're babies. It's so cool. Like a baby festival.
Speaker 3
That sounds like the best. I think I need to come.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Me too. You should present. You should do a workshop on minerals.
Speaker 3
That'd be so much fun. I would love to. Because Yeah. Let's do it. Create this yeah. It's an area that people really need. Yeah. Mhmm. It's just taking
Speaker 2
a look. Like, hot right now. We need you know, women are really curious about it, so we need good teachers.
Speaker 3
And and most of the guys who are louder or the people who are loudest about it are guys. And I'm like, no. No. No. No. Mm-mm. We need a
Speaker 2
I don't wanna learn from men. I just don't.
Speaker 3
No. We need a feminine approach to this. And the the two that I yeah. The two loudest voices are yeah. Anyway, it's terrible. There's, like, some that are really loud about it. I'm like, just go away, please. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I'm good to learn from you. We need a feminine,
Speaker 3
a feminine approach and that respects women because women are not men and men are not like, no. Mhmm. So
Speaker 2
Alright. How can women find you if they wanna learn more about your work?
Speaker 3
Yes. So I have I post a lot on my Instagram page, which is underscore muscles in motherhood just spelled all out. I do have a website. I have a actually have some resources there in terms of getting in more minerals, in, like, beverages. So having your mineral rich elixirs that you can have. So I have an ebook on that. But those are my main avenues, my website, and then my Instagram page right now.
Speaker 2
So Beautiful. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3
Thank you for having me. This is so much fun.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons, all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the star.
