Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild, freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. It's
Speaker 0
been a wild freedom check since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Welcome, Emma.
Speaker 3
Thank you. I'm so glad to be here.
Speaker 2
How old is your daughter now?
Speaker 3
Two and a half.
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah. So it was a a sweet little minute ago, and I've never really heard the entirety of your story, so I'm excited for that. So take us to the beginning. Who are you before you get pregnant? What are you up to? What are you about? What's your relationship like with birth? Have you thought about it much? I know you take RBK pre pregnancy, and that's kind of all and I know you're an herbalist. That's about it. So just kinda paint this picture of who you are, before you do this. And then at what point does sovereign pregnancy and birth come into your consciousness, and then you'll just articulate your journey with that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thank you. You know, I guess I would say before pregnancy, before even wanting to get pregnant, you know, I grew up in a household of, like, kind of ecologists and natural scientists, so I was always really interested in the natural world, and found, you know, like, the plant path. I I think I was seventeen. I had a really beautiful experience, where the cedar tree told me to to bring this medicine to the people. So I, like, had this psychic experience that was really profound. I didn't tell anyone about it, but, totally lifted all these layer layers and and veils from my eyes. So I think that was one of the first sort of experiences. And and as I meander down the plant path that I, I guess, began, like, cultivating my intuition and building a relationship with my intuition. And that was, you know, I guess, probably one of the biggest ways that we can, you know, receive information from the living world. So I like, looking back, I'm like, oh, yeah. That that helped hone this. This trust, this confidence, to choose sovereign birth, basically, to trust my body, and to trust, you know, nature unfolding. So I also, when I was seventeen, became an an anarchist, and I was, like, a primitivist anarchist. Like, I've always been drawn to, you know, like, the the sort of primal, archaic, like, the old ways, I would say. And that was the beginning of a whole whatever big process, but I spent a lot of time critiquing, in community, modernity, really, and, like, the medical industrial complex, especially once I started walking the plant path and, saw just, the incredible beauty and bounty all around us that's that's healing us. I was just really kind of disgusted with the medical industrial complex. It just was so obvious that it's not healing, like, just full stop at all. You know, I grew up with my mom never liked the doctor's office, but, like, we went. I got I was fully vaccinated. I had antibiotics and all that stuff. But, yeah, that was one arm of sort of this the system, the complex, the powers that be that was just really, disturbing to me. So I think in the back of my mind, I never thought like, hospitals are weird. So it's like I could never have a baby there. Yeah. It's so weird. I was with this was so I met my ex when I was eighteen. He was also in that sort of political sphere. And it was really common at the time, probably still is a thing, I would imagine, in more radical, like, queer circles, but, like, having kids wasn't cool. Like like, people were breeders, and it was just like, oh, that's fucking up the earth. And so there was this kind of, like and I was, like, in my early twenties, and my mom had me when she was in her thirties. So it wasn't really on my radar. When I turned, I wanna say, twenty five, twenty six, my, like, biological clock kinda was like, oh, wait. Actually, that would be really cool.
Speaker 2
I do wanna be a mom. That's liberal, though.
Speaker 3
You too. Wasted those precious years, but, no. I lived a great life. I did a lot of cool stuff. My Saturn return hit ended that eight year relationship. It was really healing and powerful. I went back to college, got a bachelor's of science in restoration ecology, which I won't probably do that ever do that, but, moved in with my now husband. Yeah. Fell in love after this really hard breakup. Actually got really sick because the house, he was living in in Olympia, Washington, which is notoriously gnarly, was, like, totally infested with black mold. I had no idea about that whole world. Fell really into it. Fell really it was scary. I had a lot of stuff going on, lots of gut stuff, lots of immune stuff, hormone stuff, whatever, and it was really destabilizing and scary. And we had been talking about wanting to have a child, but I had this really visceral actually, before I found out about the mold, but after moving into that house, just like, oh, the shiver of just like, no. Not here. And he was like, okay. And I was like, I cannot. And then we found out later that the house was, like, terribly unsafe, so my body was just, like, not safe to have a baby in.
Speaker 2
So you were in Minnesota with the ex, and then you moved to Washington to be with new guy.
Speaker 3
I was actually in Washington when broke up with the ex. Yeah. I had lived in Minnesota with the
Speaker 2
ex Previous.
Speaker 3
Four years before. Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 2
So this is after the west coast. Currently in Duluth. So the seeds you have planted you're not from Minnesota, but you lived there and loved it.
Speaker 3
The land. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. And then moved on to Washington, meet a new guy, dying from black mold.
Speaker 3
Terrible.
Speaker 2
You can get out of there, and then you come back here. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And pan then pandemic hit too. It was, like, the very first we got married in the courthouse the week before everything closed, the pandemic. So we haven't had our cute official wedding, but we have the legal one. But, yeah, he had known that I really loved, this this land and this place, and we started looking for homes, and it felt prohibitively expensive. So, anyways, we just took a leap and moved out here. And I was still enmeshed kind of in the, like, oh, just like parasite cleanses, coffee enemas, like, that whole space because that's, you know, that I know. It's so It
Speaker 2
is like a it is like a weird culture of of, like, a certain there's a certain personality that who's, like, always cleansing and, like, it's kinda sad, actually.
Speaker 3
Well, yeah, I think, you know, I hit a point where I was like, wow. It doesn't feel good to think of myself as a a bucket full of toxins. Like Exactly. And I'm just overflowing and that's why I'm sick. And it was just so also, I shifted environments, got rid of so much of my stuff. I couldn't part part with my books because my books are, like, my babies. I have a huge library. But I did all the right things and I wasn't really healing. I wasn't seeing any shifts. So this was I was we had been here for, like, eight months or something. We have a gorgeous home here. Beautiful. No mold. Just sunny, bright, gorgeous. And I stopped all the herbs, all the supplements, all the protocols, like, was didn't call my naturopath back. I was like, I'm doing my own thing, and I started a, kind of it's like a brain retraining program. You've probably heard of it, DNRS, but it's just all about retraining the limbic system. And it was really profound and incredible. And I had the resolution of all the symptoms, and I felt incredible. And probably, three months into that, I remember waking up, like, literally sitting up in bed. I need to have a baby, like, now. Like, we need to have a baby now. It was just a total lightning bolt moment. You know, my husband and I had been talk Sylvia and I had been talking about it, and he knew I was excited for a home birth. And I'm I'm kind of my timeline's a little looping around. But back before I met Sylvia, I found the FreeBirth podcast. And like so many other women who I've heard on the podcast and, you know, other women I've I've talked to, it was a just a really classic light bulb moment. It was like, oh, just having your baby is birth. Like, having your baby at home is birth. I don't think I had thought about it much more than that. Like, I was, you know, identified as a primitivist and, you know, look with inspiration at sort of how humans have have lived for most of our history. But I, I think maybe I I hadn't done the work to think about, okay, what did that actually look like? Was there always, like, a midwife there? And, you know Not. In the not at all. No. In the last few years, I would love to, like, have a project around this and, like, record more of this because I've, you know, I love the, like, old ethnographies and, like, all the archaeological anthropological data and stuff and it's extremely common, like, you probably know that for women to go off and birth themselves, like, alone, like, that was more common.
Speaker 2
Which does just make logical sense that Yeah. A biological act was done independently. Mhmm. Like, of course, I'm not saying that there haven't been midwives, but there is this romantic, as far as I'm aware, pretty unfounded idea that women always had midwives, and midwives were the the Yeah. The everything of everywhere of all time and, like, that that that just doesn't logically make sense.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I agree. Especially once you've gone through the portal and experienced or, I mean, like, I did a really, actually, super straightforward, simple, physiological birth. It's like, this doesn't have to be some crazy complex thing. In fact, I would say the majority of time throughout history, it has been that simple.
Speaker 2
Well, and it makes me wonder if the reason we're so drawn to midwives now, which I'm in full support of, obviously, it's the other branch of what I do, is because of how warped our relationship to our bodies and birth have become. Right? Because why do we need a shaman shepherd to take us over the threshold of our own biology, like, of our own biological act? Why? There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying anything negative about it, but it it is something to kinda chew on in my mind. And if we Mhmm. If we did if it was more normalized, if we did feel more whole and spiritually connected and resourced and and simplified, if there wasn't all this baggage, which we can't really un like, just like a fantasy that we could imagine who we would be without that. Yeah. I it just makes me guess that it would have just been another day. Mhmm. Not not an not an not not an important day, but
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Just go off, do the thing, come back. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So where was I? I was oh, found your podcast. Was like, oh, I'm on a free birth. That makes the most sense. I would never go to a hospital. Not judging anyone else, but that's makes me feel really uncomfortable in my body. Like, I wouldn't do it, at all. And, I took I went through the RBK school. I wanna say I was three months pregnant. I don't think I was showing very much. We would sometimes do bum check, but it was, like, really small still, sadly. Going through the RBK school was really powerful and really healing because many, many, many years ago, I, like, toyed with the idea of becoming a midwife. I was like, oh, do I wanna be a midwife? I felt really drawn to the, like, wise woman archetype. And in my mind, that was she was a healer and she held, you know, the sacred round. The, blood, sex, birth, death, like, sort of the miss those mysteries, the the women's mysteries, and that just was so woven into the archetype in my mind. And I toy I, like, yeah, kind of thought about it. I think I was living in Seattle, so it's best years, you know, alternative midwifery program. And I, again, I was just really turned off by how medicalized it was. It was just, yeah, extremely medicalized. So going through the RBK school was really healing and beautiful and kind of just, like, put these pieces back together in me of, like, oh, yeah. Actually, like, I don't think it's what you're saying, this, like, Hollywood version of the midwife. Though I think there were there were wise women who existed and had skills for sure from just witnessing babies being born if they were invited, but, that that is this this, yeah, beautiful archetype, that I still have access to and can engage with in integrity. You know? That's your whole thing.
Speaker 2
It's just like sisterly. Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's kinda just women's ways in a way. I'm like, this is just women's
Speaker 2
to attend your friend's birth if she wants you there to babysit her her kids or to make her some food or to clean up. Like, it doesn't have to be this hierarchical wise woman, you know, whole thing. That's great too. Whatever. Fine. Women want all the different stuff. But it's also just so basic, so sisterly, so neighborly. Mhmm. So simple.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And inherent in that too is
Speaker 2
just that, like, oh, yeah. For lots of time,
Speaker 3
birth is was really uncomplicated. So it's like, if you're really attached to the the, you know, wise woman hierarchy, it's like she's the one with all the, like, skills for extreme situations. But, right, most of the time, your women with you or you by yourself is totally enough. Okay. So I sat bolt upright in bed. I said, oh my gosh. I wanna have a baby. I'd been we had been putting it off for a while because of all my health stuff and just trying out the the brain retraining, which worked amazingly, and got pregnant with, like, two within, like, two weeks. It was very easy, very fast, which I wasn't sure what happened. I had been told by an OB GYN oh my gosh. I think I was fifteen or fourteen when I first started bleeding that I would have a really hard time having children. I had PCOS, and I got the Gardasil vaccines. I'm like, who knows? Whatever. I think it did some weird stuff.
Speaker 2
Why is an OB GYN talking to you at fourteen?
Speaker 3
Well, because my first cycle, I was bleeding so heavily. Like, it was, like, head This was a long time ago, but it was, like, scary. It was super heavy, because I'm pretty sure I don't know the exact timeline, but, yeah, got some got some Gardasil vaccine. It's not great. I don't know if I should have said that name on here. You can always blur it out or whatever. Yeah. But my cycles were really long. I was regularly ovulating, but sort of the luteal phase, sometimes it was two months. And I had some anxiety about that. I thought, you know, I don't believe that person. They don't know anything, but there was fear layers. And I spent some time connecting with, which I now realize wasn't my own, but, like, the, just well of grief that is wanting a child and not being able to conceive one. And I was just in this weird storm of that for a while, and then I was like, actually, that's not mine. You haven't even tried, Emma. You haven't tried and failed. What are you doing?
Speaker 2
God. It's just a story. It's a a story.
Speaker 3
It's a story. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
So Isn't it so crazy, though, that that story being put on you so young could have, had you not gotten to a place of, curiosity or or, you know, maturity or or responsibility, whatever the right word is, you would have just can you would have just made that story be true.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
This is what we do. Right? Mhmm. You just like, if we don't question the spells put on us, we just actualize them and just think we're at the effect of them, and they just are what they are, and then it creates our entire reality. It's so wild.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. Like, I could have accidentally manifested the opposite, which would have been, you know, infertility, but mhmm. My little girl wanted to come in at that time, and she did. She was conceived like Beltane just about May second, not little fertile beautiful window. And I loved being pregnant so much, so much. Like, I knew from the moment of conception, like, my hormones did a complete one eighty. Like, I'm maybe a bit more, you know, kinda like type a higher energy, and I went from that to just so Zen, so peaceful, like, immediately after conception. And those just really sweet, calm, you know, pregnancy space hormones were so nice. I I loved it. I felt so chill. I, yeah, I mean, I think that I had already had a really strong conviction to, to have a sovereign birth before conceiving. Sylvia and I had talked about it a fair bit. My husband and I hadn't really obviously shared that with anyone else because I wasn't pregnant. But I wish I could explain maybe more of more of, like, the process behind it. I think, you know, I think the sort of my path, the plant medicine path I had been on really honed and strengthened my intuition. You know, the first part of that path, the first half was maybe more I was more into, like, biochemical, like, organ systems and stuff like that. And then I found a teacher who taught me, basically shamanic practices within the context of herbalism, but beyond. She was kind of my, like, my witchy teacher, and she really opened my, yeah, kind of my psychic world, my spiritual world.
Speaker 2
Cool.
Speaker 3
And, yeah, that my working with my my intuition, my knowing was huge, a huge part of my spiritual practice. So I think that that was a really big part of it. I had identified for a long time with, like, that archetype. I think it was doctor Clarissa Pinkola Estes. She talks about the one who knows, La Que Sabe, this, like, you know, entity kind of grandmotherly, you know, wise one, but, like, the one who knows. I always felt connected to just this. I know. So there was just a this is what I'm doing. This makes sense. I'm so there was not a shred of doubt. And, yeah, that ended up, you know, panning out. I I was humbled at some point in the process there, postpartum more than birth. But, I think I just felt this really incredible, yeah, confidence. And I will say the RBK school, you you're in Yolanda's teachings were really, really powerful and integral too. There was a that really fed, my sort of maybe more, like, analytical mind in a way where I'm just like, okay. Yo. I actually know here the small handful of actual complications.
Speaker 2
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Speaker 3
Like, I was excited. I had my little binder. I was excited to, like, talk to my family if they were all worried about it. I was like, wait. Let's talk about it. You know? My mom had a lot of fear, and she wasn't willing to, really talk about it. Her one of her fears was a cord wrapped around her neck. And I was like, mom, that's, like, the easiest. There's literally no problem. It's actually adaptive. Did you know that? You know? She's a scientist. She should be into it. But no one really wanted to hear me. Impressed all times about it. Surprise. Surprise. But I did have so many people. My circle was really curated and everyone was so just trusted me. My husband, Sylvie, was great. He definitely, felt really good. Like, we have a lot of the same, I guess, ways of thinking. I mean, he kinda got real and was like, okay. But, like, if you're incapacitated, like, it's up to me and not scary, like, to make decisions. And I was kinda like, yeah. Yeah. We just had the conversations around what that could look like, what would happen, you know, worst case scenario stuff and really just sat with that. And it was really liberating actually to kind of just sit with what's the, you know, worst that could happen.
Speaker 2
It's interesting, though. Like, I mean, I've been attending birth for a very long time, and never once have I seen a woman be incapacitated. You know? Like, it's just as made up. It's in the There are so many other ways that are more likely. You know, car accident, even choking on your own food.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
You know? It's interesting because we always go to that. You know? That's what the partners always do. And what if you're what if you're unconscious? Why would you be on why would would
Speaker 3
you be unconscious? Right. Your body is flooded with, like, like, you're doing this one wrong thing.
Speaker 2
What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. It's such a it's such a, like, funny made up You're not gonna be unconscious.
Speaker 3
Yep. Well, my mom had a lot of fears around, you know, if something bad's gonna happen, it happens so fast. And I was kind of like, like, what? Yeah. Like like, what? The but yeah. You know how it is. It the cultures, like, oh my gosh. Media is wild. I mean, those are the stories we're told in our culture. That's so those are the stories that make up our consciousness.
Speaker 2
Totally. Except that, like, you forget that, like, TV is not real. It's it's you know? Like, yes, I get that you have watched movies of these things, but, like, those were just movies. Those are not documentary.
Speaker 3
Also, intentionally dramatize because that's what you're paying for, the drama. So
Speaker 2
boring a document. Like, you know how boring media around birth would be if it was, like, our birth? It's like, oh, she, like, walked around and complained and Yeah. Grunted.
Speaker 3
But just the other day. Yeah. Just it was, like, kind of one of the most mundane things you did, but that's miraculous. Yeah.
Speaker 2
The actual emergence is very interesting because a person's coming out of a person. But before that, it's not Yeah. Probably that interesting.
Speaker 3
Especially, I think, for an observer. I think it's Right. You know, the initiatory experience for Right.
Speaker 2
No. Yeah. It should go through it. Working. There's a lot going on.
Speaker 3
I mean, it's true. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. So then you chose a totally wild pregnancy?
Speaker 3
Yes. And I didn't participate in anything. I I didn't really even do that much research. I think I emailed there was a unlicensed midwife here, in Duluth, and I emailed her about birth certificate stuff. Because I was like, oh, I kinda just don't wanna think about that. I don't think I wanna think about that later. And she kinda tried to say, you know, I'm here if you need it. First births are crazy. And I was like, I'm good. She said first births are crazy? My prenatal she said first births. Yeah. Okay. Which is really I mean, that's such a common thing to say
Speaker 2
to the first time mom. Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's just it's gonna be extra hard this time. So yeah. Lots of women say that. Just, you know, just for my first one.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
I want help.
Speaker 2
Well, you need to prove to society that you can do it. Yeah. I mean, look. I'm not denying that first births do tend to be longer. And because it's an initiative initiatory, you know, new landscape, yes, it has, like, its own, work, but I don't think it's cool to say they're crazy.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I was unfazed. I was like, I'm so excited. My mindset going into birth was like, oh, just that I I I know and now I know having been through it that it's just this really incredible, like, peak life experience. And I was really, like, kinda like an athlete. I was just like, yo, like, I wanna see what I'm made of. Like, I want to do this. I definitely had been thinking about and talking about and, you know, reading about just the incredible, initiatory nature of this whole experience for female humans, and was very, like, I'm ready for this initiation. Like, I want this to be a holistic, multilevel initiation for me and for my family and for my my lineage forward and backwards. That was my hope, my prayer. So, yeah, didn't get any
Speaker 2
I appreciate you Yeah. Actually, like, walking the walk, you know, because I see a lot of women identify as holistic and into consciousness raising stuff, and then they go get induced and have their c sections and think their baby almost died. And, you know, I say that, like, I'm not, like, dogging on them. It's just it is, like, objectively out of congruence. Like, it just it just is. And everyone is where they're at, and, like, of course, that's fine. But it is really cool to see women, really walk the walk they say they're on. Mhmm. You know? And you obviously did so much, previously, you know, that just, like, on the core stuff, not even birth related, just on the really, like, who am I and who am I in this world and with this world and Mhmm. You know, even the the self healing process is such a big affirmation of what you're capable of. And Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, I can see the the steps and and what that gives you.
Speaker 3
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. That self healing was integral to feeling Mhmm. Ready to to face, yeah, birth and all of that.
Speaker 2
Well, it sounds like you've got a bit of a post partum story. So let's see.
Speaker 3
Let's go through it. Let's go through the story. Yeah. So I was pregnant. Loved being pregnant. It was awesome. I ate a bunch of food. I did the liver. I took a bunch of saunas. We live in the north. It's cool.
Speaker 2
I did the liver.
Speaker 3
Oh, you ate the liver. Yeah. I ate liver, ate Newjune's food. I was eating fish eggs because there's wild fish running, whatever, all this stuff. All the good stuff. Probably the biggest component of my prenatal care that I intentionally leaned into was, yeah, the spiritual, like like, making, building relationships and sort of figuring out how my my spirits, my ancestral spirits who I work with could could be with me, who wanted to be with me, support this process, kind of on the nonmaterial plane, basically, the the invisible world. So that was my main thing that I did, and that was just kind of whether with a drum or just quiet or whatever. I did lots of journeys or sort of meditations. And, basically, I was always assured, like, my baby is so strong. She's so ready to be here. Like, she's just a light. She's she knows how to do this. I was really brought into very often this, like, like, this sense of, like, okay. You know, I'm birthing. I'm literally birthing in the like, I'm moving forward my mother line, literally the blood lineage. I will birth my baby. She has my blood. She has my mother's blood. It goes forward and backward. But I was even pulled back through, you know, all the human mothers, the sort of ancestral mothers to, like, the animal mothers. That was something that was so surprising to me but really grounding. I had so many visions where I was like, a she bear in the den, like, birthing. Like, she's in a trance. She's dreaming. She's hibernating. She's having her baby. She's nursing them, like, in this really incredible beautiful cocoon. Like, my gosh. European peoples, northern people historically have have been so drawn to the bear, as, like, a mother archetype, but it's really feeling that. And, it was so comforting to me because I mean, I don't know. I should remember this. I think it's, like, hundreds of millions of years mammals have been giving birth this way. I wanna say it's, like, three hundred and forty five million. I don't wanna say an exact number, I guess, and stick with that. But this is just such a there's such a long lineage. That's even before humans, of this really beautiful process, and it works. And that's how we do.
Speaker 2
This was through drumming meditations that you
Speaker 3
were becoming This kind of classic yeah. Kind of classic, like, shamanic journey. So sometimes I was drumming, sometimes I was listening to a drum track. I had a friend who was supporting me too. Sometimes it was quiet, but they're like a little, you know, ten to fifteen minute journeys. They're more self directed than maybe a guided meditation. Yeah. I had some trippy ones. I had some really trippy ones, that were really kind of disorienting and intense, but, it was, yeah, also really, really beautiful. So I felt really supported and held, in that space. I had a beautiful community here. Like, I kind of had all my needs met. This home is gorgeous. I felt really strong in my body, and kind of having that, I guess, spiritual circle, those kind of, you know, ancestral mothers, the primal matriarchs around me was really, really powerful and just helped me feel, I don't know, even more seen. I think that's so one of the most helpful things about ritual or ceremony is just it is so integrating. It helps us actually, like, integrate and embody what, yeah, what's happening and what we want. So okay. Pregnant. Love being pregnant. Great. So
Speaker 1
it was born
Speaker 2
just makes me think about how many women I talk to about how alone they feel in their pregnancies, and it's like then do something. Like, connect to all of the animals and the plants and the elements and the line that is available to you. Like, it's crazy that you feel alone. You're you you're completely surrounded. You know? And it's it's obviously just, you know, blocks and and they don't see that yet and and da da da da. But, you know, if you are listening to this and and you feel alone, try try drumming. Try Mhmm. Connecting. Try, you know, you don't have to, like, be some experienced self identified witch to, like, open up these these pathways in your own psyche that are not just a part of the living world, like, are the living world. You know? It's Mhmm. It's all right here for you. But even something yeah. So cool. Just sit and drum. Like, what happens? What happens if you just talk to the trees or, like, sister morning star says, just poop outside. You wanna get wild? You wanna connect to your instinct Yeah. Outside. Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 3
I love yeah. Yeah. You don't have to be a crazy shaman to do that at all. It can just be as simple as opening your heart and, you know, that's really beautiful. I so agree. My my ancestral mother said that to me that we it makes me emotional, but they're like, we were waiting for you. You were the first in a long line of women who wanted who wanted this, who wanted their their grandmothers and their people, like, with them. You know? And we're and we're meeting maybe birth with, I don't know, I guess, courage and with a brave heart, which I think is the, like, actual ancestral woman's path. That's what this path you know, I think it's a lot of things, but that's a big component of the path.
Speaker 2
So how did your ancestral mother communicate this to you? It was in a shamanic meditation?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Speaking usually. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But in one of these trance like meditations?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. There was one specific one. Like, it was really beautiful. Actually gave me ideas for sort of how in the real world, like, I could support mothers in a blessing weight capacity, but just really beautiful, like and I've been doing this sort of, like, work for a while. So my, and I'm kind of I'm, like, a highly sensitive per so, like, I have very rich visions and whatever. You can everyone can get there, but mine are maybe kind of, yeah, detailed. But, yeah, I was in a cave. I I specifically said, who are my who are the ancestors of my lineage? Who who want to be here? Who know the birth ways? Who know the who hold the the the wisdom of these mysteries, these women's mysteries that include, you know, moon time, that include sexuality, that include birth, that include, like, the milk mysteries, motherhood, like, all of that. Like, that's just a circle to me, the sacred round. So and some came forward, and it was so beautiful. They're, like, braiding my hair, braiding flowers into my hair, and, like, oh, just, like, anointing me with oil and, like, just so many beautiful things that I've, you know, seen a few images of getting their feet bathed and but it was so incredible, and they said, like, we are here for you. You can we will hold you. You can squat, and we will hold you. Like, we're not swayed by the intensity. We're so proud of you. We're here. It's making me think Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I'm crying too. It's making me think, like, you know, who of us have ever even thought to ask that? You know? Like like, I just said it's right here, but, like, I've never thought to sit down and ask that. You know? And the the, the message that they're like it's just making me think about I don't have a strong connection with with plants, and a couple of times I have gotten to have it, you know, or I've been, like, open enough to receive it and getting to meet Lavender and Rose in this one specific ceremony, and they were, like, twirling around me. And they were like, we've always been here. Like, we've always been wanting to play with you. Like, we are just right here, girlfriend. And I was like, wait. What? And they were like, yeah. You just, like, you haven't been listening. You haven't been open to it yet. And I just remember being like, what? You know? Like, this totally changed my my of what's possible, my entire perspective of what's what's possible. Yeah. Anyway, that's so beautiful and inspiring. That's really
Speaker 3
Didn't think it would go that direction, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, life changing.
Speaker 2
Like And I guess for you, you already have had these spiritual psychic experiences of plants talking to you. Mhmm. So it kinda seems like an obvious thing to be like, hey. Hey. Historical, matriarchal mother line, what you got? Yeah.
Speaker 3
Well, I actually I actually took a really in-depth training on specifically working with the ancestors. It was, like, maybe a it was a few years ago. So that, like, helped me get the language, and I built the relationships. And, that's really not that different, though. That's cool. His name is Daniel Thor.
Speaker 2
Daniel Thor? Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I don't know where he's he's probably still doing stuff now.
Speaker 2
Do you are you, like, at the level of comfort with this stuff that you could, like, do something at MRF next summer and, like, guide a whole thing and
Speaker 3
take us ancestors? Yeah. I would. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
I mean, I would hold space. I I do a lot of teaching, and I like to hold space. I wouldn't do maybe, like, healing work for people. That's kind of, I guess, next level. That's, like, more, like, actual shamanic, but I would love to hold oh my gosh. I would love to hold space. So I was just telling Sylvia. I was like, I need to go down matric rising next year. Uh-huh. Okay. Yeah. We'll talk about it.
Speaker 2
K. Great. It's a date. Yeah. Okay. So So you're pregnant. You're loving it. You're meeting all the the beautiful guides.
Speaker 3
They're here. Yeah. It's great. So February fourth, my belly was so big. I had a friend come in town, who I was excited to be at the birth. She doesn't have any official birth experience, but, like, we are really close, share a lot of kind of cosmological, spiritual beliefs. I was excited for her to hold space spiritually, even if it was just holding down the altar, like, just tracking what's going on. She's incredibly gifted as well in that realm, and I thought maybe I may not be that there. I'm gonna be in my process. So she was about to leave, and I was all sad because I had just chosen ahead of time. I was like, I'm just gonna come around forty weeks. Like, I have no idea. Gosh. Two days before she was about to leave, my belly was so big and so much lower. And that morning, it was a gorgeous, like, zero degree day here. Just so sparkly, beautiful, breezing midwinter. I had a little bit of bloody show and some waters, and I was like, this is different. This is great. Okay. Cool. But I had been so well trained by you all. I was like, don't just rule number one, don't get too excited. Don't be wasting your energy. Like, rest. Stay chill. So we, you know, made nourishing food. We went on a really long walk. I walked many miles every day in in pregnancy. And I was feeling, like, so gentle. Like, it felt like just tensing a muscle. There's no pain, nothing, but there was definitely bands, kinda horizontal bands tightening around my belly. And I definitely remember earlier in the day thinking, wow. These are really regular. Like, kinda close. Like, really regular. But we're, like, out walking the dog in, like, zero degrees, and I'm, like, you know, just doing my thing. I think around five PM, it starts getting dark, and I was we were watching Lord of the Rings, and I'm sobbing just at, like it's so righteous. Good versus evil. Like, I don't know. It just was really getting me so funny.
Speaker 2
Best pre birth movie.
Speaker 3
There's always hope. Like, it was so epic. I loved it. So nerdy.
Speaker 2
That's funny. There's always hope.
Speaker 3
But I'm getting uncomfortable. I'm like, oh, yeah. Actually, it doesn't feel that good to just, like, lay here on this thing. So I said, hey, Sylvia. You need to come home. He came home. We ate dinner and then went up. My friend's name was Espin, and she was gonna just stay down here. Like, she's not, like, trying to do anything with the birth, but kind of just like, I'm here. I'm around. Sylvia and I go upstairs, and, it's dark now because it's midwinter. And we light a candle, turn on music. It wasn't my birthday list, but it was just some, like, honestly, actually really cool, like, Tibetan prayer music, like, chanting. It was so good. It was perfect. And, I was extremely prepared for it to be long and hard and for, you know, for it to be super important for me to conserve energy. I'd heard enough from from teachers, mentors, other women. Like, I I didn't wanna be so exhausted that I couldn't birth my baby. So I'm resting. My everything was my breath. I just I mean, I I had the perfect it was literally just a dark womb space, one candle flickering, my just really devoted, present, quiet husband just sitting here. I'm in the zone, like, right away, and, it feels amazing. I mean, the I don't think I felt I felt intensity, like, in the the moment of her emergence, but before then, it felt incredible. I'm laying. I'm flooping a lot. My body is definitely clearing things out, but I'm so calm and just riding the wave of my breath. It's just I've never I mean, it's such a deep meditative space you go into. I totally get why women who have gone through come back and say they went to the underworld. Like, it's you are yeah. Like, I felt like I was a mammal. Like, I was pulled all the way back, like, I was saying in my lineage to to sort of this, like, mammalian, just preverbal, prehuman, primal space. It kinda was a blur. It was really beautiful. After a little while, I don't even know how long, I I couldn't lay down. So or that felt uncomfortable, so I sat up. I'm I don't think I said barely any words to him. I just was there, breathing, breathing, opening. I think I just I don't even know if I had many mantras. I I mean, it was just rest and open. That was pretty much it. Breathe, rest, and open. Soften and open. Eventually, it's more comfortable for me to be kind of standing over on you know, leaning onto the bed. And then we reach a point, this must have been nine fifty PM or something. Five PM is kind of when I would say, I'm officially in labor. Though looking back, likely, it was all day because I was having very regular sensations. But you reach a point, and I this is all internal, but it was, you know, kind of in the the peak of the wave. It was hard. It was really hard. It was uncomfortable. Not to say excruciating. Very uncomfortable, very hard. And I remember feeling this, like, looking back, this was transition for sure. This is literally when my cervix opened. But I felt I thought, Emma, you have been a cocky bitch. That's literally what I thought. I was like, you think you can just rock this? Like, if it's like this, I can't do it. I can't do it. This is hard. This hurts. Like, I can't. I didn't say any of this out loud, but it was, like, in my my inner self just fell to her knees and was, like, humbled. Okay. Mere minutes later, I think I said I croaked because I just hadn't been talking about, like, Which I actually just thought I had to go pee. Because I guess I had heard so many stories. If you ever have to feel like you have to poop, baby's right there. But for some reason, I was like, it's not the same if you have to pee. You just have to pee. It's fine. Had to pee, Walked into I'm still wearing, like, slippers and a ratty shirt. I had a friend who was gonna come over, a really beloved sister, to take photos. So I was really excited about that. I was like, okay. Just, you know, come over. I wasn't looking cute for my birth. I thought I was just going pee. We go in the bathroom.
Speaker 2
Hey. Where's the other girlfriend that you love? She's downstairs. Okay.
Speaker 3
She's chilling. Because I've been silent this whole, like Yeah. I'm not even maybe quiet moaning, but, again, it's felt really it's really sensual. I would say that first part was incredibly sensual. It was just so yeah. It was very embodied, very meditative. But I sit on the toilet, my body is immediately pushing. And then I'm I think I'm I'm not gonna say I'm screaming or roaring. I'm just like maybe I'm screaming. Yeah. I'm screaming. I'm saying, you know, I'm like this. And so he's, you know, kinda squatting down in front of me, and I'm like, this is so hard. This is so hard. Emergence was really intense. I also didn't know that she was coming. I was like, I'm pushing. This hurts. This is hard. I didn't know she was coming out, and I was shocked. Like, this sounds so stupid looking back, but I really thought that I just had
Speaker 2
to pee. I thought that
Speaker 3
if I if I felt like I was pooping that I the baby was there, but she was obviously right pressing on the bladder because there was nothing my body had already purged all the other stuff. Oh my gosh. So this part happened really fast. I mean, honestly, it was I wanna say, like, four pushes, and it was totally total fetal ejection reflex. Like, it was totally spontaneous. I was in disbelief for the first part until I reached down, and she was her head was out. Her shoulders, she was here, still hanging in there luckily because I'm still on the toilet. Not the peaceful I had kind of imagined, like, hey. Just this really, like, spiritual meditative, like, moment of emergence, and it was so funny. We are laughing hysterically, screaming. I'm sob like, just it's crazy. It's a storm of just intensity. So I'm kind of lunging. I get off the toilet. I'm like, she's here. He's like, he doesn't believe me. He looks. Oh my god. Put a towel down. She's born. The bathtub's, like, I wanna say two feet away or something. I'm holding on to the edge of the bathtub. I think I was lunging, honestly. I think I was lunging. And she's born, and I was laughing so hard because she was so slippery. I, like literally neither of us could catch her. We had talked about it ahead of time, and I had totally made fun of people. I was like, oh my gosh. They're so worried about catching the baby, but, like, it can't be that it's like, it can't be that hard. It's right there. So slippery. Little lightning bolt. She shot out too. The waters
Speaker 2
They're covered in goo.
Speaker 3
They're covered in goo. My waters slippery. Broke when she not even when she emerged. So they must have oh my gosh. They must have still been around her her because the waters broke when she fully came out.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
She did. I pulled her, sort of call off. She had a nuchal cord. She was, like, a bright red trying to scream right away.
Speaker 2
Just like you're all just so worried about.
Speaker 3
Well, I know. My little baby knew what she was protecting her airway. Of course. Yeah. She's so smart. She knew exactly what to do. She was so ready. So we also were, like, ninety nine percent sure that it was a boy. I don't know why everyone was telling me that. I felt so sure and connected and whatever intuitively blah blah blah. I also didn't even look. I had no I did not look at the genitals. I was like, shit. Here's a baby. I was pretty aware that I had torn because there was definitely a, like, very sharp moment sensation. I had written up a kind of thorough, beautiful, not a birth plan, but just to, like, here's what's up after going through RBK school. Here's what I want to happen. Here's if, you know, I'm this is what happens right after birth. Mama's warm, laying down. You're getting me food and drinks. Here's herbs to have on hand if we want x y z, blah blah blah. But I shuffle into the bedroom and Naya well, she wasn't Naya yet then, but just latches right away. And, I like again, there's one candle still in the bedroom, and I I I did peek down. What I think happened is that her labia must have been swollen from hormones, which I guess is a thing, but it looked like a scrotum. So I was like, okay. We have a sun. Like, amazing. I'm thinking that in my delirium. And then my husband comes in, like, an hour later and is like, do you want me to wipe down your chest a little bit? Because I've been like, no. Don't wipe. I'm not taking a shower. I'm marinating in this, but we were crying laughing. He says, like, that's a girl. Like, what?
Speaker 2
I think oh, so
Speaker 3
we're crying. We're laughing so hard. Oh my gosh. My little girl. So surprising. Placenta.
Speaker 2
Oh, it felt like such a good like, you thought it was a boy, so you just, like, imagined a scrotum.
Speaker 3
I don't know. It was very low light, flickering low light. I don't know. You're right. I totally imagined. It's not I didn't look very well. And her little cord was between her legs still, and we tried to do lotus and it got to it was annoying. But I think I tried I didn't have any urges to birth the placenta till probably, I wanna say, like, forty five minutes, an hour after. I tried once. I was not excited about it. I didn't wanna do it, but, didn't work. By this time, my good friend, my other friend, Peyton, had come over. And she's a doctor. Yeah. She's an angel, and she brought up a big metal bowl. And, she brought I think I used angelica tincture. I took, like, three drops because I love that plant. It's from my garden and, just talked to my body and said it's time it's time to release this, and it was really easy. Payton held me, and we had the bowl, and Naya's latched on my boob, and it was just really easy and easeful and beautiful. Yeah. Okay. Postpartum. You know, I feel like something you said in the RBK school, I really appreciated and resonated with was that, you know, this sort of whole container of, like, the birth experience, the birth continuum, is is a rite of passage and it is an initiation. There will be some part of it that is challenging, and that's actually, like, good. That's that's for our growth if if we want to meet it that way. So for me, like, conception, pregnancy, birth, those were beautiful and amazing. Breastfeeding went incredibly well too. I didn't have any challenges there. But for me, postpartum, even with all of my training and my, like, I have a list of the five physiological needs. I know that this is needed. It was so humbling. I I did not prepare to have the circle of women and mothers around me that I needed. I had friends who were bringing stuff and who would come over, but it just, like, was not enough. Like, I actually needed women there a lot of the time to just even be there, to hold my hand, to just spiritual companionship. Like, it just I needed it desperately. I felt so and I knew this would happen, but I just was really floored by the intensity. I was so cracked open. I was so tender, so sensitive. It you can't I mean, yeah, you know. You words are instructive, but, like, you actually cannot know what it's like to have your a piece of not even yeah. Just, like, your consciousness, your nervous system, your heart outside of you. Like, it's so it's just really different.
Speaker 2
And I think so what happens is that most women, because they don't have the resources internally or extern externally to navigate that, they just close it up as quick as possible. Mhmm. You know? Like, because you can stay in that psychic space for actually a pretty long time, but it requires a certain level of tending
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
That you know, I'm just thinking about, like, you know, the classic, like, chick that goes to Target on day two. And it's like, yeah. Of course. Like, of course, that's what you need to do to close it up Yeah. And not hang out in that space. Yep. Of course. Like Yep. You know? So yeah. I think
Speaker 3
it's self medicating, self healing in this way. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. So you have
Speaker 2
girlfriends that love you, but they weren't mothers.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yep. That was a piece of it. It's just someone else who in their body has gone through that and is a mother feels different energetically. That's a thing. There's just I didn't have that. My mom came. That was really sweet. I called her a lot. I had a lot of, yeah, just moments. Like, is this what what's going on? Is this okay? I was really rooted in intuitive mothering. I was very, like, I know what's sort of the one who knows. Like, I know what's right. I know what's going on.
Speaker 2
Wait. Did you not have any moms besides your own mom?
Speaker 3
My husband's mom didn't come around. I had two moms who would come semi regularly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3
A lot of my friends were made in still Yeah. Which is really interest well, not that interesting, I guess, but in this newer place that I'd I think we had only been here three, two and a half years when she was born. So, no, I didn't. We had all the food stuff covered, the bodywork, the the the the the, but it was just the lack of, yeah, mothers and and when specifically mothers around me. I just didn't know. I thought I wanted a, like, golden bubble of privacy or something because I'm a very private person, and it was just like
Speaker 2
Well the whole fucking family. Theory that I don't know if I'll be able to articulate very well in this moment, but it's essentially around what happens when you have an intact pregnancy and birth. And when you're intact, you get access to new, like, levels of gifts and and, like I said, psychic spaces and, let's say, consciousness. And so, man, I wish I had I, like, feel like I'm not gonna be able to articulate this how I how I how I can see it in my head, but it's like, you know, the the hierarchy of needs. It's like all of yours were met. And so you got to get into this really sensitive top layer that like, forget about it with someone who had an induction and her baby's in the NICU and and she's in such a devastating, you know, trauma response and survival mode that I'm not suggesting that she wouldn't also crave the wisdom of mothers. Like, of course, I'm not saying that that's not available to her. That's a very normal thing to desire when you become a mom. But I do see this, peace where it's like, okay. You have everything. You have everything provided. You have everything. And so and, oh my gosh, there's, like, still things that you need and that are missing that are still not totally whole to our society or or our microclimates that we've created and those little things like that. Like, for me, I was it it was less about that because I really had that. It was around touch, how much touch I wanted. Yeah. Because I had the friends, I had the moms, I had my literal mom, and and, you know, have had Erica who had just had a baby, who she was coming over with her baby. You know, I had all the the social stuff, but it is social when you're not in a trauma response and when you're not in survival mode, I think it's very normal. What I see around you know, across the board is is it's very social. You want the women laying on your bed. It's just it's a particular type. You don't want a lot of people over, but if they can meet you at that frequency, it's like, look at my baby. Oh my god. It it's so social and Yeah. And beautiful, but I kinda back to that, like, hierarchy of needs. It's like but if you're if you're in survival mode and no one gives a shit about your birth experience or you as this postpartum, you know, sacred woman, you're gonna just deal with that. Like, you're not you're not gonna lay around, like, oh, I wish I had touch. Like, you can't even
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. You're like, I'm barely able to do these tasks. I just got stitched up or whatever weird. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Like, who we are, I mean, this is part of the reclamation in this whole free birth thing is, like, figuring out what women are about when we're whole and when we're not injured and when we're not abused and when we're not, like, surviving. Like, what's the next layer of consciousness and magic and and gifts from the world, you know, or or or beyond that are available to us. It's like you can see it. You can see it. Women talk about this all the time in the free birth world of this psychedelic postpartum state. And I was in the birth world for over a decade and didn't have one woman mention that shit to me because they were all, for the most part, birth you know, born on drugs and or birthing on drugs or, you know, being sexually assaulted at delivery and being stitched up, and and I just think you're gonna have a harder time accessing that stuff.
Speaker 3
Literally, the hierarchy of needs. I mean, that's such an interesting theory. I'm getting chills just, yeah, there seems to be there. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2
Where it's unlocks higher levels.
Speaker 3
Well, part of me next time, I'm like, okay. Not that I need to do anything with that time, but I'm kind of like, oh my gosh. I just I felt this this void of ceremony and of holding and of witnessing, and it it was just like there was a lot of grief around what has been like, what were the questions and practices aside from sort of, like, physiological mother tending. Like, we you know, there are various cultures that still have the food traditions and the the touch and the body work and all of that, but I'm like, what were the, like yeah. Maybe more, like, emotional, psychological, like, spiritual, like, questions, ceremonies, rights. Like, what happens? Because the, yeah, the the sensitivity that was unlocked was unreal. And in this specific configuration of reality, that was potentially I'm not gonna say a curse, but that wasn't a blessing. But I'm like, I I have to believe in other times it was an incredible blessing.
Speaker 2
If it was hell.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Incredible blessing because what would come through? What would what could be healed and rewoven and reworked, like, in me? I mean, things were healed. Like, my cycle, thirty days now. My capacity for which I think is so cool. So many women
Speaker 2
So cool.
Speaker 3
That are, I guess, outside of our space, love to talk about how birth broke their body.
Speaker 2
Because it did. Yeah. I mean, it's not birth. It's it's obstetrical violence, but they don't they don't know the difference. You know? I mean, it's it's legit. Like Yeah. It really does. You know? When you when you go through that stuff, it can totally break you. You know? Forever numbness, like scar tissue, I mean, PTSD.
Speaker 3
X y z. Yeah. Who
Speaker 2
knows? Course.
Speaker 3
I know the internal scar tissue stuff is crazy.
Speaker 2
But That's why it's a really delicate but important conversation because the majority of women are really wounded. You know? They're really wounded out there. They're really being so deeply improperly initiated and then emerging feeling less than. So then there's all this trauma bonding and Stockholm Syndrome and, like, weird reframing that then as we see online, like, if you say anything about, you know, like, intact birth, it's like mom shaming. There's, like, all this bizarre Mhmm. All this bizarre, cognitive dissonance. And, like, you know, that's sad. But but, also, like, if we don't if we don't hold down a realm of normal and possible and what's every woman's to to to actualize, like, we're gonna go into the black pit forever. Like, we're gonna lose this shit. I mean, this was the whole inspiration of this podcast was I was like, there is literally no archive that I can find today on the planet that has nonmedical births exclusively. I it didn't exist. I was like, oh my god. What is happening? Which was literally the whole reason why I was like, okay. So a podcast would be a virtual archive. That's pretty cool. And then anyone from any country with access to Internet would be able to listen to it. Okay. Let's do it that way. That was the whole thing. It was like it what? We're losing it, people. But, yeah, there's definitely there's definitely something to the the hierarchy of needs and what happens what happens. And the question I was thinking when you were bringing up ceremony is, like, I just love playing with this question with myself and with all my friends of, like, how could how good could it get? Yes.
Speaker 3
Like, what about what what
Speaker 2
about next time? What if you had this and this and this? What if your husband stayed home? What if blah blah blah blah blah? You know, what if you have boundaries? Like, what if what if no one held your baby? You know? And and and like that. You know? Like, how good could it be? And we are not wired until we are. I'm wired now. I have wired myself to think that way, but that is like an active rewiring that we all have to do of even framing this question. What do I want? How good could it be? And am I willing to have it? And I know so many women now who are playing in that arena and what they're creating in their lives, their births, their marriages, their businesses. I mean, it's next level. It's
Speaker 3
so So inspiring. Yeah. I don't know what it can be, but I love these conversations, and I you're so inspiring. So
Speaker 2
I mean, I even think, like, ceremony and stuff can sound kind of grandiose, but, you know, to anyone listening, like, what I do. And and when I see a postpartum mom is I touch her. I touch her feet. I rub her feet. I always bring fresh flowers and and, you know, for her room, for her visual, you know, pleasure. And and I always just say something like, tell me your story. And I don't even mean tell me the story of your birth. I might say, tell me the story of last night. Mhmm. You know? Like, who's asking you about last night? It's like, well, I lived a thousand lives last night. Like, you know, so much happened last night. So many new things happened and so many thoughts happened and so much creativity and so many memories and then the baby and then there was this and this. And there's just, like, so much going on in those immediate first nights of and disorientation and, whoo, you're just, like, still half in. And, anyway, so that tell me your story. I love that line, and I say that line a lot to women about focused things and more zoomed out things because it just it, like, it offers wherever she wants to go. But, anyway, like, what if we all what if we all just said that to each other? You know?
Speaker 3
Hey. So simple and kind of weird that that's not even normal. Wait. We don't wanna hear I wanna hear the birth story. I wanna hear all things or whatever the story is. But yeah. Do wanna hear it. They just
Speaker 2
don't know what they're allowed to do when they're also alien to these intimate spaces, and they haven't been properly initiated, which is why daughters like ours who grow up in these ways, that gets really exciting. You know? For this That's normal.
Speaker 3
That's what I I mean, I'm excited for my life too, but Of course. To see to see what our daughters do. Oh, and I just how healed they are. I mean, it's hard to put into words to feel the, like, healing. I mean, having the my my ancestral mothers come in and say, we've been waiting for this. Like, no one has come in so long. No one has asked us to attend in so long. It used to be so normal. We always came. I mean, that that's, like, the images of, like, the fates and the sort of triple feminine divinity is, like, that's all across Eurasia, probably other parts of the world. I don't know. But that's even, like, the three fairy godmothers and sleeping beauty. Like, these are these like, I would say they precede goddesses. They're just female divinities, divine female beings who oversee the birth mysteries and, like, women's ways. And this is just, yeah, super old, integral stuff. But, the amount of oh, it's just almost undescribable. I I don't know how to describe it, but, like, the relief I feel that my daughter was born
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Peacefully and in love Yeah. Like, I could just cry about it for days. It's so it's incredible. Incredible. And I know you know this is your entire world, but it, like, really is the center. I mean, that's why my birth business, which is still fledgling, not doing much, is called the is ceremony of birth because birth is the first ceremony. It is like the nucleus of us. It's so big. It's everything.
Speaker 2
Yep. Literally. Mhmm. There's so much to hold. We we did this. I just kinda channel made up this ceremony for MRF this year, and I've never done anything like this before. You know, most of my work's online, and I just was like, I gotta do something for the moms who were improperly initiated. I have to do something for them because I'm also aware of the women that come who, like, didn't free birth and and, you know, had the unexpected c section or and it you're out the nursing, and they project a hierarchy, you know, and they will other themselves. And I know many women have admitted keep themselves from even coming. And, you know, okay. Like, that's for everyone to decide, but I was like, I know that there's gonna be so many women there because I coach so many of them that come and whatever. Mhmm. I gotta do something for them. And I didn't even really know what I was gonna do until the day of because that's really how I am. And it was so big. It was so, so amazing. And way more women came, and I I assumed it would be, like, twelve women that wanted to be reinitiated. And then whoever else was there would we'd, like, rally around them. But it was, like, sixty women. And so I talked about, like, birth trauma in the beginning and and but the the reason I'm trying this here is I talked about, like, what I require, what I want, what I need in my prayer is that we have a community that can hold all of this and that we can't ever, you know, become even unconsciously, like, we can't, like, fall prey to this nonsense of of a hierarchy or that free birth is better or that you're a better person or, like, any of person or, like, any of these weird things that I don't think, but get projected onto the stuff that I do and the stuff that we're about. And so, anyway, so basically, we had so I I talked about that, and I talked about you know, like I said, you know, if you were improperly initiated, you know that. And so today, we're gonna reinitiate you so that you have a marker in your system to, like, move on from. You know? And we can't change the past, but we can add another layer to what happened. We can add another memory to it, you know, for deeper integration, whatever. And so I framed it, and then, I called any woman who wanted to be properly initiated into the circle, and I was blown away by how many. My guess is, like, sixty came and sat in the middle in this big white tent, and I was like, oh, shit. Okay. We're gonna need a lot more women to help us with this because everyone needed at least one person paired to them so that they could speak their story first. And so I, like, got on the mic, and I was like, I need everyone to come to this tent. And so a bunch of extra women came and and everyone they sat in a circle facing out around this pole shoulder to shoulder, and were paired to one or two women. And they had, like, fifteen, twenty minutes to just speak uninterrupted while the other women just listened consciously and and with their hearts and no crosstalk. So that happened. And then we had them or or what do we do? We sang we sang a song, and then I sister, Morningstar, taught me this way of blessing, woman in a village prenatal, but I kinda repurposed it. And they sat in a circle really, really tight because there were so many of them. And then all the other women, so there's probably another sixty to seventy, one by one. So it took forever. It took almost three hours. One by one, they spiraled through and got down eye to eye and spoke one one out breath to the mother to initiate her. So the prompt was, if you were to meet her if you were to be meeting her day one, day two postpartum, what would you say to welcome her to to motherhood? Mhmm. And so I didn't hear what anyone said, you know, because everyone it was very private. And so everyone did that. My mom was there. She did it. She said bawling, and everyone just got down eye to eye, heart to heart, and just moved. And, like, literally, sixty or seventy of us did it. So these women were bombarded, like, I mean, hours of all of this love and touch and seeing and hugging and crying and all of this stuff. And some of them had their babies and some didn't. And because some women were reinitiating from
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Teen years ago. Right? And so then we did that and then, you know, sang a beautiful song and drummed and did all of that while it was happening. And then we did this angel wash where it was like the final closing where they go through the, you know, the love tunnel of the arms above with everyone whispering to them, you know, all these beautiful things, and then they emerge through the tunnel and are properly initiated with a hug and rose water, you know, all the all the sweetness. And it was so, so cool. It was so beautiful and so cool. And now that our community that came, you know, has that it was I think it was equally as powerful for the women who held and who, you know, were in the wings and were, like, my helpers as it was for the mothers themselves. But I feel like it's this beautiful example of what is possible in the power of women and, you know, with the highest of intentions of sisterhood of how we can hold it all because so many women in our community are hurting and are so wounded and have been really done dirty, you know. And then so many of us haven't. And how do we heal, you know, and how do we just keep that spiral moving and and just being light and loving and and it was such a cool, cool, beautiful, profound, opportunity to practice that.
Speaker 3
That's, like, that's incredible.
Speaker 2
It was really cool.
Speaker 3
I mean, I love you kind of answered your question. Like, how do we do that? I'm like, there's probably lots of ways, but communal ceremony Lots of ways. Incredible. Like Yeah. Potentially one of the oldest human technologies. I mean, there's something so special that happens in people I mean, communities thrown around all the time, but, like, in community with a group of people, energy is so amplified and, like, it just becomes really powerful. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2
With my work on the screen is like, alright. I'll do this because I know how far it can go, but only if you guys come play with me here. Like, we can touch it. We can dance actually. Cry. We can like, I have to have this part if I'm gonna live my life on this fucking screen every day, which I am willing to do, and I am so grateful I get to do it. But it's so my my rule when I do stuff in person is if I can do it online, I'm not gonna do it. I'm only gonna do stuff in person that we can only do in person. So in touch, we're gonna you know, there's just a whole arena of ceremony that can only be done Mhmm. Heart to heart, you know, hand to hand and can't be done through the screen.
Speaker 3
Oh, it's incredible.
Speaker 2
Well, I'm glad you're coming
Speaker 3
next year. Yeah. I'm definitely coming. Yes. Confirmed. Just haven't decided if I'm bringing a knight or not, but I think it'd be so special to have a daughter there, but also would make it harder.
Speaker 2
Well, I guess by the time this episode comes out, we will have already broken the news, but we're doing no kids next year. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. We're we're cutting from twelve months to four years.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, like, babes in arms, fine, obviously. But yeah. I mean Yes. You should just long term have a have a kids festival, which you're probably already thinking.
Speaker 2
No? Okay. I have literally no interest in that. You do that. I don't wanna do that either. I do that at all. I don't wanna do that either.
Speaker 3
I want the women
Speaker 2
to experience. Want Amara to be a kids festival. Like, that's actually not the event I'm interested in making at all. I would like to put on an event for you.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, I wanna push my edge and go on a trip without my daughter for a minute.
Speaker 2
Also, she's two and a half? Yeah. It would be she'd be almost three
Speaker 3
and a half. She's gonna be fine. She nurses morning and night, and it's chill, and I'm not worried
Speaker 2
about it. And she probably won't be in another year.
Speaker 3
I mean, it's like that's
Speaker 2
she she certainly could survive without it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. She's she's robust. We're good. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think I I mean, of course, I love the idea of, like, everyone having their kids there and blah blah blah, but that toddler age, it's just so disruptive to how deep we can go Mhmm. And having no screaming. Because the four and ups go to kids camp, so they're Yep. They're fine. And we're gonna do a kids camp, like, ten ten AM to ten PM. So they're gonna be totally happy. And then, of course, you have to bring babies, of course, and that's those are not really the issue. But, yeah, they're like, one divorce, they're nuts, and that's their job to be nuts, of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And they're yeah. I mean, I think it takes a mother running a festival like the or gathering like this to kind of be in hearing your integrity and saying, like, actually, like, it is of the highest service that mothers can be in a space space or maidens because I'm sure maidens come too Right.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
In a space where our consciousness is not fractured by the constant, like, distraction of a child. Like, that is even just that is so incredibly healing and reparative and, like, everything.
Speaker 2
Well, my original intention for the festival was for mothers to come as a reprieve of their motherhood, like, persona or whatever. And, you know, I think a lot of them do. But, anyway, yeah, I feel good about it. I've actually never wanted that age group to be there, but I kinda just dealt with it every year because it felt kinda messed up to say Yeah. That that's, like, not okay. But I got real clear this year. When I saw toddlers screaming in Kristen and Nancy's faces while they're leading a ceremony Yeah. And the toddler moms didn't have the whatever to remove them, I was like, no. You've lost privileges. I'm done.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Of this. No more. Mhmm. It's for the it's for the betterment of the entire Mhmm. Care, which I know is gonna piss some of y'all off, and I I do apologize.
Speaker 3
But it reminds me when you were teaching us about women's circles where you're like, actually, no. Kids aren't here. This is not the space for that. You're with your kids all the other time. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a good time to
Speaker 2
open up enough space.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Exactly.
Speaker 2
Alright, girlfriend. Thank you so much for your time and your story, Madison. It was really one of my favorites, actually.
Speaker 3
Thank you, Emilee. So good to just be with you.
Speaker 2
I know. I missed you.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Me too. Yeah. Thank you so much. This was awesome.
Speaker 2
Take care. I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below and, of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of Sovereign Birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and of course, our annual women's gathering, the matriarch rising festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, the lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding, the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the star. Wild woman, she still lives in the high. Wild woman, from you, I will not hide.
