Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild, freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. It's
Speaker 0
been a wild freedom check since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Hi, Corinne.
Speaker 0
Hello, Emilee.
Speaker 2
I'm excited to talk with you today.
Speaker 3
As am I. Cannot wait.
Speaker 2
So you've got three stories to tell. Mhmm. And just tell us a little bit about where you live and your orientation to all of this before we dive in.
Speaker 3
Sure. So I am a mother to three, my oldest being five. My youngest will be one pretty soon. I live in the Pacific Northwest, specifically Washington State, and I have pretty much been a birth nerd and, like, obsessed with babies since the beginning.
Speaker 0
Starting out, like Since you were since you were in diapers.
Speaker 3
Truly though, because at, like, two and three years old, I would go around. I'd wear this cute little bandana in my hair, and I'd be nursing my Teletubbies. Cute. And I myself wasn't even a breastfed baby, but, like, I've always been very maternal. So, like, I just knew, like, that's how I feed my babies. Mhmm. And then as a little girl, just like elementary, middle school, I was obsessed with the TV show called, Baby Story on TLC, and it convinced me that I wanted to become a midwife. So it has always been something that I have loved. But it's funny because it doesn't it didn't translate up until more recently. So I ended up going to college to become a teacher because I still wanted to be involved with children, dropped out after two years because I hated it, and decided, after me and my husband got married that I just wanted to be a stay at home mom. It's kind of another thing about me is I've never really known what career path I wanted other than to be a mother, and also just to be involved with babies and mothers and children in general. So
Speaker 2
So are you a birth worker in any
Speaker 3
So I I do a lot of sharing online, and I'm currently in a twelve month program, to, become a birth worker, like, actually serve women in Nice. In person. Yes. As soon as my baby weans from breastfeeding. So Mhmm.
Speaker 0
We'll see how that goes.
Speaker 3
But, yeah. So I dropped out of college. Me and my husband got married. I decided I wanna be a stay at home mom. So we get pregnant pretty quickly. And, I was just like the typical American young first time mom, not really knowing much about pregnancy and birth. I actually called up my friend as soon as I got a positive pregnancy test. She had a baby before me. I was like, I'm pregnant. What do I do? Like, what do I do? And she's like, here's the name of my OB. You need to go see her. You will love her. And, I knew there were alternative choices, but I didn't, like, look into them. So I took my friend's advice and went with, an OB. And, immediately, I could tell that I wasn't gonna get to see the OB that I wanted to see. Right? At the time, preferred male OBs. Okay? And, Why? So my experience with them was much kinder.
Speaker 2
There was
Speaker 3
more, I don't know, consent involved, I guess. Like, they were more careful with me than the female OEs were. I kinda experienced, like, the female to female I don't know what it was, but, like, I was checked for dilation, and it felt, like, at thirty six weeks, mind you. And I felt like she was like, you're a woman. I'm a woman. You can take this pain. I was clearly in pain as she's shoving her fingers up into my cervix. And then when a male OB would check my cervix, it was like, I'm gonna put my hand here. And, you know, I have a very different opinion now on that, but I preferred male OBs. I was never able see the doctor that I wanted to see, and their whole approach is like, we want you to see every single doctor that is in the clinic because we don't know who's gonna be available for you when we give birth or when you give birth. So I'm high risk in my pregnancy. My baby is measuring small. I'm a small person. I'm, like, five two, a hundred pounds. I'm I'm not a big person. So, they ran me through the ringer. I got an insane amount of ultrasounds, literally weekly. And at the end of my pregnancy, he was doing the NSTs, the BPPs, all the things. And at thirty nine weeks, he did not pass one of the BPPs because he didn't practice breathe within the thirty minutes they allotted him to. So this was a Friday, and they said, oh, crap. We're gonna have to induce you. Like, this is medically necessary to induce you. And out of my own ignorance, I didn't know that you couldn't, like you had to listen to the doctors. Like, I I didn't know you didn't have to show up to an induction. Like, I had this annoyance and this, like, intuition of, like, my baby feels fine. I feel fine, but also kind of loving the almost like the attention. Right? Like Oh my god. Totally. The extra, like
Speaker 2
The drama.
Speaker 3
Yes. Honestly. And, like, the excitement of, like, oh, you're gonna know basically when he's born, and I'm a high risk, you know, like, kind of feeding into that, but also knowing, like, the truth, like, internally. Like, I knew he was fine, but still kinda wanted to go down the route and then be like, oh, the doctors, the doctors, the doctors. So they told me I needed to be induced, but and it's medically necessary. Right? But let's wait until Monday because that's when I'm on shift. You know? So we have the weekend to prepare, and I'm doing all the things to try and naturally induce my labor, running up and down the stairs and bouncing on my ball, dates, red raspberry, tea, all the things. Of course, he wasn't gonna come. He's not ready. I now know that I have longer pregnancies, much like my mother.
Speaker 2
Longer meaning what?
Speaker 3
So forty two. My mom actually went to forty three with one of my siblings.
Speaker 2
So, like, totally average.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 3
But in the medical complex, that's long. So, all of our family lives about two and a half hours away. So it was exciting for me to get to tell them, like, a date and a time. Mhmm. I wanted the party birth. I think we were allotted, like, five people in the room. This is right before COVID hit. It was August of twenty nineteen. So my mother-in-law, my mother, my sister, my sister's best friend, who's also like a little sister to me, and then my husband. We also up to my little induction, and I'm all excited. And, we get the Pitocin started about nine PM, and everyone leaves because, you know, inductions are long. So just kinda fast forward a little bit. I end up laboring really well, handling the contractions great, especially for being on Pitocin. I one thing I didn't realize in the hospital is, like, you have to ask to do anything. Like, you can't just get up and even go to the bathroom without them freaking out because I had to unlatch all the monitors, like, the belly monitors that I was hooked up to. I had the whole IV pole with the pitocin and the fluids, and it's like a whole thing to get me to go to the bathroom. So I'd have nurses running in because they lost the heartbeat, and I'm like, I'm just trying to go potty. Like, I just need to pee. You know? So it was a whole thing to even allow me to get in the tub. I wanted to labor in the tub. I needed special gear to labor in the tub. Laboring really well. And a nurse comes in and tells me, hey. Just so you know, when you're done with the tub, we're gonna do internal monitoring on you. And I knew what that had I knew what that meant. I knew it was a screw in my baby's skull. But at that point, I was already in transition and didn't even know it. And so I was I didn't say anything to her. I was just kind of, like, gonna be along for the ride. So I get out of the tub. And the only thing that saved me from internal monitoring at that point was I was a nine and a half already at when was this? Around, like, six thirty AM, starting Pitocin at nine PM the, night before. So it was pretty quick for an induction. So I'm told I'm a nine and a half. I'm so excited. I'm like, oh my gosh. My baby's gonna be here soon. And then I'm sat on the bed, and my nurse gets down on her knees and, like, is holding my shoulders and looks at me. And she goes, this is your last chance to get the epidural.
Speaker 0
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3
You need to get it now or you won't be able to get it. And she's rude. They're so rude. I know. And she starts
Speaker 2
doing so amazing.
Speaker 3
Yep. She starts telling me she's she's like, you know, I got epidurals with my babies, and it's totally okay. We can get you out of this pain, because, you know, I'm I'm nine and a nine and a half centimeters getting ready to have my baby within, you know, probably the next hour or two. So it's it's at the height of the intensity. So, you know, of course, when a woman, a first time mom young, is offered pain relief, you're gonna take it. Right? So I, it was just it wasn't like it was just so manipulative. I I would have rather her be like, you know, you're doing so amazing. Like, your baby's gonna be here soon. And it was all it was just so manipulative to be like, it's okay. We can give you the epidural now. I didn't even ask for it. She just offered it to me. I said yes. So seven AM, the guy comes in, get the epidural in. It was terrifying because I was crying, sobbing, I'm gonna have a contraction while he's like, I'm gonna break into the sack of fluid into your spinal fluid, and you're gonna have a horrible headache. And I'm crying and scared and, you know, all the things. So dramatic. I get the epidural, slows down my labor by, like, three or four hours. And it's time to start practice pushing around ten thirty, which what does that even mean? You're pushing or you're not? And the nurse comes in and she, like, spreads my labia and goes, oh, your baby's right here, so let's start practice pushing. And then she begins to take her hands and make a mohawk out of my baby's hair and says, oh, your baby has so much hair. Everyone come around. Let's look as I'm literally playing with your baby's hair. Like, how how disturbing is that? That's so disgusting. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
No. Yeah. They literally do hairstyles.
Speaker 0
Like, what? Is this a barber's look?
Speaker 2
That's a thing. That that is a frequent thing where they do little hairstyles on the unborn baby while she's splayed open under the lights. Yeah. Also practice pushing, you know, part of it is, mean meaning pushing before you call the doctor.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So it's it's pushing without without, you know, the the big guy who's gonna Right. Who's gonna actually get paid to catch the baby or deliver
Speaker 3
the baby. Yeah. So, my OB ends up coming in because the the practice is, you know, good enough. And it was a male OB. Like I said, I had chosen a male OB at the time, and he comes in with this young blonde woman. And he says, hey. I know you wanted me to be the one to deliver, but we have this new OB from, California. We really want her to have a couple births under her belt, so she's actually gonna be delivering you today, and I'm gonna stand in the corner. Mhmm. And, again, not knowing I could say no to this, I was like, okay. So, Well, you can't.
Speaker 0
Yeah. You
Speaker 2
you could have said no, and then he would have just said, oh, sweetheart. This is what we're doing. Right. There was no saying no.
Speaker 3
Right. So, she comes and sit down she sits down in between my legs, And, my husband is on one side holding one leg up to my ear. My mother-in-law is on the other side with my other leg up to my ear. Not even in the stirrups, like, straight up up to my ears Yeah. As I'm trying to push. And, what I hadn't realized is that so my epidural was on one of those pumps where you could, like, click the button. And my husband afterwards had told me, every time the nurse came in, she clicked that epidural button for you. And I didn't know that she had been doing that, like, ten, twenty times always clicking that pump. So I was way more numbed out than normal. I literally couldn't walk for twenty four hours. That's how numbed out I was. So I couldn't feel contractions at all. I had to look at a screen. They all had to tell me and scream at me, push, push, push. Don't breathe. Push, push. Curl over your baby. And the female OB, I did not know this until later on, had her fingers inside of my vagina the entire time I'm pushing and was stretching me very aggressively because I'm a first time mom, so I need help being stretched. Right? So, I was pushing about thirty minutes. I was told that I have a lazy uterus because my breaks were pretty long in between the contractions. And so they how
Speaker 2
do you feel right now telling me this story? Like, what
Speaker 3
My heart is pounding. Yeah. It's it's disgusting. It's it's hard to, like, look back on and know. You know? Like, this is how my first birth went. Yeah. So they tell me my my uterus is lazy, so they turn up the pitocin to get things going. And, my baby is born, and and he's placed on my chest. And, you know, I'm excited and happy and
Speaker 0
Right.
Speaker 3
Crying and, but one thing I had asked was for delayed cord clamping, which I did not know. In the hospital, their version of delayed is, like, one or two minutes. So, they go to cut the cord and immediately blood squirts everywhere, and that pulled me out of whatever birth high I was able to have at the moment with pitocin, epidural, everyone screaming at me, fingers in my vagina, all of that. And I wasn't able to get it back. Immediately, I was pulled out and, like, disassociated basically from this experience. And it felt like I was just not even in my own body, but kinda, like, watching from above and, like, everyone is surrounding me.
Speaker 2
You were also on, you know, you were on fentanyl. And so the the literal, like, result of being on heavy narcotics is often, out of body experiences. So it's like women on epidurals are on hardcore narcotics, which are literally making them high paired with being abused. Like, that's a really I mean, duh. It's an understatement to say this, but that's a really hardcore combo to be abused on drugs.
Speaker 0
Mhmm. You
Speaker 2
know? Because you can't, like, integrate it in the same way.
Speaker 3
Right. So, after this birth, it took me a while to realize that I actually left with a few birth injuries that should not have happened. So from the stretching, that the OB was aggressively doing, I tore to the side. So I had a really bad labial tear. And it she didn't tell me what degree it is, but my guess is, like, a really bad two because I could not have sex for six months. It was so painful. And I remember asking my friends, like, hey. If you tore, like, how are you feeling? They're like, oh, yeah. I can have sick I can have sex, you know, six weeks postpartum. And I'm over here feeling like trying to have sex with my husband, and it feels like assault. That's how bad it hurt.
Speaker 2
It's also not just the tear. It's that you were just sexually assaulted.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
You know? So there's the psychological, like, undeniable component and spiritual component
Speaker 0
Right.
Speaker 2
Of, like, not not safely being able to return to your body.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah. I didn't even think about it that way, honestly. It's that's a good thought process about that. So I received that birth injury, and then, they had cathed me two times while, under drugs with the epidural, and I could not figure out for the life of me what was wrong with my urethra for, like, a year. Every time I would go pee, it felt like, a charley horse in my urethra. Like, it would I would try and pee, and then I would get this cramp, and it would, like, stop me from peeing. And I had that for, like, a year, and it was finally, like, someone online that I was chatting with who told me, hey. That's from the catheter. And I was like, what on earth? And I still feel hints of it to this day. But yeah. So I left with, like, two birth injuries that did not need to happen. Okay. So our our postpartum experience was awful. We were bullied about all the decisions we made because I was on the track to being more holistic at the time. Like, we chose no vaccines, no iGoop, no circumcision, all of that stuff. And, we got bullied, told our our child was gonna end up, like, in the NICU with a brain bleed, you know, all the fear mongering. And so we ended up leaving the hospital, by God's grace, with no issues. It's really easy to just, like, you know, be like, okay. I'll do it. But for some reason, we were able to leave scotch free, which was amazing. And for a while, I talked really, highly
Speaker 2
scotch free.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right. Right.
Speaker 2
Like, reading a ruined birth.
Speaker 3
Yes. Absolutely. Meaning, my son didn't get poked or circumcised. Yeah. Very low bar there. But, we had left that birth with, like, positive experience. I even made a video on my YouTube channel. Positive induction experience.
Speaker 0
Oh. I did. Definitely.
Speaker 2
Oh, well, that speaks to your your growth and trajectory, and it and, you know, it's always, I think, good to hear stories like that for everyone listening because you are where you are till you're not. And a lot of women who are currently positive induction, blah, blah, blah, you know, still have the potential to wake up. Right. If you are like most of my listeners, you are devouring these episodes and you're probably wishing that you could speak to the women that come on this show, learn from them, even get to know them in real life. Right? Well, I would like to invite you into my inner circle. It's called The Lighthouse. The Lighthouse is my highly exclusive online membership and it's where most of the women on this podcast are hanging out. It's by far the best social media platform on the Internet. It's highly curated by yours truly, and our team personally vets every single member coming in to ensure the highest caliber community imaginable. I'm talking a full feed of free birth announcements every day, engaging an intellectual conversation about everything taboo under the sun, a ton of group calls every month to connect and be in circle, not to mention the now seven year old matriarch search engine that will quickly replace your Google searching. We only open our doors four times a year and half that time we only open it to those on the wait list. Add your name to the list in the show notes below and consider taking your place among us brilliant sovereign wild women because it's just simply better when we're all together. See you on the inside, sis.
Speaker 3
So, we hated our postpartum experience. So we got pregnant nine months postpartum, and we started looking into alternative options just
Speaker 2
because we did it. Yeah. What do you mean you hated your postpartum experience?
Speaker 3
Oh, with the bullying, like, at the hospital. The postpartum experience at the hospital. Just with all of the bullying.
Speaker 2
When you leave your when you leave your birth and you are, like, integrating it, digesting it, unpacking it with your husband
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
At this point, the narrative is, like, the birth was great, but fighting against them postpartum sucked. Yes. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yep. So we got pregnant, like, nine months postpartum unexpectedly, and we decide we're gonna look into alternative, options. And so I had messaged my chiropractor asking her, hey. What midwives do you suggest? And, my chiropractor has had home birth and now a free birth. She sends me a home birth midwife and says, hey. This you are gonna vibe with her. You will love her. So I go do a consultation with her, and I didn't realize she was only a home birth midwife. But I we drive out to the woods to her tiny house, and we get in there and she offers us some tea. And we're doing our consultation, and she's like, yep. I only do home births. And me and Aiden look at each other, and we're like, okay. I guess we're gonna do a home birth. Like, it was never something that I had, like, sought out myself. It was just, like, I vibe with this care provider, and I'm gonna do a home birth. And, but through that, I began to do research and then ultimately decided, yes. Home birth is what I'm gonna do. So I end up losing that baby, and we get pregnant two months later with another baby, and we lost that baby as well. So I had two back to back losses.
Speaker 2
And how were those how were those births handled?
Speaker 3
So my first one was very medically managed. It was a blighted ovum, and so sometimes those can take longer to pass. Right? And so I was at the twelve week mark. I was getting really nervous. I was feeling some symptoms. It could have been anxiety. I don't know. I I chalked it up to being, like, infection, and I went and got a DNC for that one. And then my first free birth was actually a miscarriage. So my second baby was my second miscarriage, sorry, was at home normally, you know, just passing my baby, and it was so peaceful. It was so hard, but
Speaker 2
was that in was that informed from the DNC experience that you were like, I don't want that again as the second one?
Speaker 3
Yes. Absolutely. I didn't wanna go through the the medical procedure again. It just felt it didn't feel good in my body. So, yeah, I experienced basically my my first free birth with a miscarriage, and it was as hard as it was, it was beautiful. And I got to, like, sit there and, like, hold my baby and, like, be with them and, like, pray over them and spend time with them with no one else there but my two year old son at the time. And I honestly really liked I loved that experience as hard as it is. But we ended up getting pregnant with my double rainbow baby, my daughter, three months later. And so, of course, I'm I'm set up with my midwife, and she walked me through those miscarriages as well. So I had a really good relationship with her. Still do. And that whole pregnancy was great. It was amazing. I just loved loved her care. And we get to about forty weeks pregnant, and, I start feeling, like, anxious because at the time, me and my husband's relationship was not good. He was hiding alcoholism from me, and I didn't know it. He was severely depressed. Yeah. We went through really, really rough
Speaker 2
Wait. How was he hiding?
Speaker 3
So he would basically go upstairs when I would go to bed at night, and he would go into the garage and game with his friends, and that's when he was drinking. And then he'd wake up hungover every day going to work. It was intense. Yeah. So, I felt the lack of connection with my husband. He was never there was never a lack of support. My husband was always supportive and onboard, but there was no connection. We didn't have that emotional, intimate connection, so I needed that from other people. And like I said, my family is about two and a half hours away. So I was like, well, what happens when I go into labor? Like, what if no one is here in time? Like, I need my family to come stay with me. Right? So they all come up. I don't even know how far along I was, but, like, in my forty week. And we're they're just sitting at my house waiting for me to go into labor. And I just felt so watched. I felt so, like, like, these people are taking their time off of work for me, and I'm not going into labor. And, like, every single day, I would wake up pregnant still. And every night, my mother-in-law would be like, okay. We're gonna have a baby tonight. And I'd wake up in the morning, and, no, we the baby wasn't there. Uh-huh. So my midwife never told me this, but I was under the impression that you could only be pregnant up until forty two weeks without going to the hospital. She never told me that's not true because in Washington state, we don't have that law, like, the regulation. Midwives are allowed to attend home births, you know, as far as you go. It's fine. But I was under the impression that I had to give birth by forty two weeks. So we are coming up on forty two weeks, and I'm freaking out. And I'm feeling bad because my family is here. They took time off of work and no baby. And so I started asking my midwife. I'm like, hey. What can we do here? And she's like, well, you know, we can wait it out, or there are some options. And, we talk about the midwives' brew. And I ultimately decided to take the castor oil concoction the morning of December twentieth. So December twentieth twenty twenty one. I take my first dose at twelve PM, and it was horrendous. I have never felt more nauseous in my life. I was I never vomited, but I was having such explosive diarrhea, Emilee, that I gave myself a hemorrhoid from how much I was pooping. Yeah. It was awful. It was awful. And, in order for it to be effective, I had to take two doses. So I took my first dose at twelve. I laid in bed pretty much the whole day so sick, and then took my second dose at five PM. And, like, no contractions really ever started, honestly, until I decided, you know what? I'm just gonna get up and I'm gonna start walking around my room. I'm gonna pace around my room, and let's see if I can get into labor because the concoction didn't start contractions. So it was about, like, eight PM or so, and I start walking around my room and contractions began. And I'm like, okay. Here we go. And at this point, every single contraction I have, I'm, like, shitting my pants because I'm still clearing out from all of the castor oil. It was terrible. So I had to do all of my contractions on the toilet. And it was like there was no, like, gradual start. It was like, I'm in transition immediately is what it was. And so I, called my midwife, let her know things were happening. And she's like, do you want me to come over? And I'm like, no. Not yet. And she, ultimately ended up coming over. My birth was only about three hours long, start to finish. And she came over probably an hour after my labor had began. I was sitting on the toilet, and the first thing I told her is, Rebecca, I got a hemorrhoid, and I'm, like, sobbing because my butthole hurts. And, she, you know, is just comforting me. And, we had everything set up in my bedroom, and it was another party birth, because I invited my sister, my mother-in-law, my mom, all the people. It was really quick. It was emotionally difficult because my mother-in-law kinda took the place of my husband because I was closer to my mother-in-law than I was my husband. So if you look back at all my birth photos, my mother in law's with me, and my husband's not really. So, that's kinda hard to look back on just because it's painful to see, like, where we were. But, overall, I had a pretty positive birth experience with that birth.
Speaker 2
Other than everything you just said.
Speaker 0
It's true, though. Like, my actual birth, like,
Speaker 3
it was nice. Like, giving birth in the tub, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 0
I got to
Speaker 3
stay home. You know? So so, yeah, I I birthed in the tub. And,
Speaker 2
That's risky business when you're shooting them.
Speaker 3
I know. I know.
Speaker 0
Oh, okay.
Speaker 3
So, yeah, I birthed in the tub and but this is where things, I've had to process this. I didn't even get a golden hour. I sat in the tub for probably, like, twenty to thirty minutes holding my baby. Mhmm. And I gave birth to the placenta pretty quickly, like, within thirty minutes. And, you know, I was asked to get out of the tub so we could monitor bleeding. Ew. And so I transition out of the tub, and my baby is passed over to my husband as I'm getting out of the tub. And I don't get my baby back for, like, one to two hours afterwards. What? Yeah. She was passed around the room to everyone who was there. And, yeah. So I laid on my bed as I was being stitched up. I was shaky from giving birth and hungry, so I was having, food. And at the time, I didn't really notice. It took me a while to, like, fully grasp this. I do remember oh, and, also, my chiropractor ended up coming to this birth. She missed the birth by five minutes, so she was there too. I remember my chiropractor and my midwife in the distance saying, we need to get baby back to mama. We need to get baby back to mama. And my mom like okay. Let me backtrack. Cicely, my daughter, she was crying a lot. And I remember thinking, why is she crying so much? And I'm like, oh, she's just a newborn. She's just a newborn. Now looking back, I knew I know that it was separation. She was crying for me, and no one was giving her to me. And I remember hearing the distant background, though, like, my midwife and my chiropractor being like, okay. Let's get let's give baby back to mama. We need to get her back on mama. And it just, like, never happened. Weird. It just never happened. And I remember, Sicily, she was crying, and my mom runs in with a binky. I was like, hey. Let's give her this binky. And my chiropractor is like, no. No. No. No. No. No. We're not giving her a binky. She needs to be on the boob. So in in the moment, I didn't realize that. And it took me up until my pregnancy with Florence, my third baby, to unpack that because I got severe postpartum anxiety afterwards because there was separation. I still my daughter's almost three, struggle with anxiety with her specifically. Like, if she wakes up crying in the middle of the night, heart pounding, nauseous, like, something's wrong with her. Like so I experienced separation in that, birth, and it really affected me to my core. And, You know, there could be a
Speaker 2
there's these really cool ways to recreate the birth with the intention to rewrite the repair where you could this is gonna sound a little silly, but you could, if this interested you, set the intention to mend that, anxious attachment experience. I mean, it always happened. You can't, like, rewrite what literally happened, but I've seen some pretty cool stuff happen where you would go into the tub. And you if she was willing, she would be with you, And she would even depending on how into it she is, most kids are pretty into this, she would actually pretend to come out of you. And then
Speaker 3
That's sweet.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then you might even take your top off or just be in I mean, you could be naked, obviously, or whatever. And then you would pick her up and hold her, and you would not let her go. And you would just use whatever words felt right for you. And it could just be the two of you. Your husband could also witness. But it would be essentially a ceremony to say what happened happened, but we're gonna go through these motions again, and I'm gonna keep you. And you're gonna stay with me, and there's no separation. And I hear you, and you're you know, we're gonna breathe together. And it can just be really organic. There doesn't need to be, like, any script. But I've seen that really, like, with the intention to recreate and then allow a new, like, new synapses, you know, to the story.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I've seen it really do magical things to both the mother and the child systems.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I've heard of that specifically with cesareans, but I've never heard of that when it comes to, like, stories like mine. So that's really good.
Speaker 2
You could do it with any sort of Yeah. I mean, parent, mother baby separation is very is very common that that causes anxiety in the pair. Sometimes it shows up more in one or the other. But I've seen it I've seen serious anxiety be resulted from just like medical home births where the mother is brought to the bathroom, let's say, to birth the placenta because the midwife wants that and the baby is left in the room. Like, that can seem so innocent. Right. And just that I don't mean to minimize it. It's a really big deal. It shouldn't be happening. Can I've seen that result in really, really serious anxiety. Oh, yeah. Anyway, so yeah. That's a thought.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I actually, like, felt I it's not like an embarrassment feeling, but almost like it's not big enough to be categorized as trauma because there's so much trauma that happens in birth. Like, me just not
Speaker 0
holding
Speaker 3
my holding my baby can't be considered trauma. So I've had to sit
Speaker 0
with that as well.
Speaker 2
Birds, if they're young, get touched by a human, they will reject them. Like like, it is not natural for you you know, there is a very clear blueprint intended for optimal survival, and it didn't get to happen. Right. And, yeah, I get how women gaslight themselves and compare themselves, you know, to other people, but, it's very real.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. So I've had I had to sit with that and process it for a long time, to really be like, no. This did happen to me, and it has caused me years of pain. It has. I actually, in my pregnancy with my youngest, Florence, had a whole hour conversation with my midwife about that birth and how it had caused me anxiety. So let's just go into that. So I end up getting pregnant again, with my daughter Florence when Sicily was about fourteen months or so. And it's funny because we me and my husband had decided, okay. We're ready for a third. Let's go ahead and, you know, get pregnant. And so we are, like, trying for three months. And at the end of three months, I'm like, you know what? I'm not ready. I don't wanna have a baby yet. And so I had told god. I was like, hey, god. I'm ready for a baby. And then after three months, I was like, you know what? I'm revoking my womb. I'm not getting pregnant. I'm done. Let's try this again another time. And he laughed in my face and said, sorry. You're already pregnant. So I ended up getting pregnant. Of course. I'm excited. And we have her pregnancy, and it was great. And I did decide to go ahead and move forward with my midwife again. And, the entire pregnancy, I'm talking to her about oh, no. No. No. I need a backup. Sorry. I need a backup. My husband in the shower, three days postpartum with Sicily after our home birth says, do we even need a midwife next time? Like, we could do this by ourselves. And it's just so funny because, like, even as disconnected as we were, like, we still had a a good like, he was just, like, I don't know, intuitive and had such good discernment because he didn't know what free birth was. He'd never heard that term. He didn't know it was an option. He was just like, I don't think we need a midwife next time. And I had already been listening to free birth society, and I was like, oh, you wanna do a free birth? And it wasn't for me at the time, and I was like, I don't know. I don't know about that. But he put that seed in my mind of, like, wait. My husband is mentioning this to me? Well, maybe I'll maybe I'll resonate with that. So fast forward to my pregnancy with Florence. I'm grappling with the idea of free birth. And
Speaker 2
So you're listening to the podcast just, like, being like, this isn't for me, but also Yeah. It's interesting kind of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Well, almost like, I wanna do this, but I'm not brave enough. Mhmm. Right? So I have these conversations with my midwife every single appointment, and I tell her, hey, you know what? We're gonna have a free birth. We're gonna have a free birth. I still want you for, you know, postpartum care because I really I do love her as a person, and I, you know, love the idea of being served postpartum. But we're gonna do a free birth. And, like, every single every single appointment was just me talking about free birth with her. And,
Speaker 2
So you hired her and paid her Yeah. To not have her at your birth? Yes. And And then you did have her postpartum? Yes. So you did all the prenatals with her?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I went to all my prenatals, and I just remember feeling this redundancy of, like especially near the end of my pregnancy. Like, I just have to come to this office every day. And it was nice because all we did was talk, you know, like, thirty to sixty minutes of talking, but, like, what what am I doing here? Like, I just don't I don't know.
Speaker 2
So was her vibe when you kept telling her I'm hiring you to not do your job?
Speaker 3
So no. She she, she's supportive of me doing a free birth, and we had a lot of conversations about it. And her you know, she is a medical midwife. So, of course, she wants to attend her, client's birth.
Speaker 0
Well, I
Speaker 3
don't know.
Speaker 2
It's pretty chill to get paid to not show.
Speaker 3
True. She never had any, like, kickback for me. She has never fearmongered me ever. She really helped me untangle untangle Cicely's birth, and, like, go figure out my anxiety with that.
Speaker 2
Did she, like, apologize? No. K.
Speaker 3
No. And I did hear her in the background saying things like, hey. We need to get mother or baby to mother, but it just never happened.
Speaker 0
But
Speaker 2
I heard her passively not being a leader in protecting you, which is what a fucking midwife is supposed to be. Yeah. It's hard. It makes me angry. You know? It's it's like, it almost makes it worse that she was a mouse in the corner being like, knowing knowing what was happening was wrong and allowing it.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It is hard to sit with for sure. So, yeah, we all we really ever talked about was free birth in my, in my appointments, knowing that my intentions were to not have her attend my birth. And it was very much like I want to do this, but also, like, protective. Like, that that's kinda what rebirth is. Like, you're protecting your space. And, like, I didn't want anyone there. I didn't want anyone there. I just wanted it to be me and my husband and my photographer, which I love, and she was at Cicely's birth as well. Yeah. So that's all we really did on my appointments, and I was not willing to do any sort of, like, at home, and inductions or anything. I was like, you know what? This time, like, it's different. I'm not doing this. I don't care if I'm pregnant until forty three weeks. Like, I because, because technically, I've never really experienced going into labor by myself because I was induced, medically, and then I was induced at home. So
Speaker 2
So tell me before you get into the third birth story, tell me a little bit about, like, how you come to what's the right word? I mean, essentially critique the second birth that on paper, you know, can look perfect. I mean, you know, what I mean. Like, water birth, families there, midwife that you love and trust. So tell me about how you come to reflect on that and, like, want something different. And how do you come to align with free birth? Like, what does free birth mean for you? You said it means protection, which really speaks to your distrust in her also. But, like, how cognitive are you of all of that?
Speaker 3
I so what I had kind of spoken on with my hospital birth is kind of it kinda carried through in my second birth as well with me, like, knowing intuitively, like, this is what is right and what I want, but also playing into the excitement of the other things, like the midwife and the appointments and all of that. So it's like it's almost like I have this these two things inside of me that are, like, fighting each other almost. Like, I'm here. I am intuitive, but, also, like, I kinda have like, kinda like the drama a little bit. You know? Like, that kind of war. And a lot of it actually had to do with prayer and self reflection and listening to the podcast and going back to my husband. His words to me being like, do we need a midwife? Do we need a midwife? Like, him being that voice of, like, knowing almost for me to, like, pull me out of this, you know, thing. And, also, just my anxiety with Cicely was a huge catalyst for me because I was having horrendous anxiety my entire first trimester with Florence still from my birth. Like, I would wake up and literally have to run to the bathroom and go diarrhea. That's how bad my anxiety was for counting.
Speaker 2
You knew to connect it to the birth?
Speaker 3
I began to because I began unfolding everything that had I was like, the only thing that makes sense is, like, I'm so anxious about Sicily. The only thing that makes sense is my birth. Like, there's nothing else wrong with her. She's perfect. She's healthy. It's my birth. It has to be my birth. So then that's when I did a whole dissection of her birth and was like, it was the separation that happened that occurred. It had to be that. So, yeah, it was just a lot of, like, thinking and pondering and also just listening to stories on your podcast of women who have gone through similar things. And, yeah, that's kind of how how it went for me. And, again, still hiring my midwife because I love her and wanted her support postpartum. And she did play a big part in helping me figure out Cicely's birth as well when we did that whole conversation. But
Speaker 2
It's interesting how, like, the midwives that sabotage the births will then help women untangle and unpack that very birth. Like, that's I feel real cautious of that. I feel, you know, like, that's that is a real tricky business, and
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
There's kind of this, like, elephant in the room that's not getting named, it sounds like. Yeah. It's interesting. But I wanna reemphasize the significance of, of any of you listening who have, what's the right word, have had a a connection fracture, a physical a physical fracture with your young. I I have seen so many women, and I don't think it's talked about enough publicly, but I've seen so many women experience very real PTSD symptoms from moments, like having lack of visual on their baby for moments, which really, really makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
Because it's so unsafe. It is unsafe to not have your baby with you. And what's interesting about yours is it's so easy to gaslight yourself that it was all like and I'm not even saying you did this. Like, I could just imagine anyone relating to this story. It's like all these people love you. All these people love this baby. It wasn't like they were strangers. It wasn't, like, masked assholes in the in the NICU. You know? It it's your people that you invited to this place, and yet you were invisible. And this happens with so many women in home births. I mean, it's obviously happening in the hospital. You can see them on YouTube. I'll watch I'll show, like, in our in our programs, these videos where it's a it's a home birth and the mother, like, no one's tending to her. The mother is absent, and everyone's focused on the baby, passing the baby around. You know? It's really, really wild.
Speaker 3
And I feel like those are even harder to, like, fully uncover because like you said, it's, like, all loving people with all good intentions. Theoretically. Right. Those are harder to uncover. At least for me, it was.
Speaker 2
So you just start to realize, like, I don't wanna I don't wanna force my birth process. I'm unpacking that I had anxiety around separation, and and free birth is like a like, an obvious way to control that, essentially.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2
Wondering, like, why not just not have the party birth and have your trusted midwife? What was the thinking there?
Speaker 3
So okay. A lot of in my pregnancy with Florence, I had a prayer journal where I was just literally writing all my prayers out. The top one was free birth. I want, like, is this what God has for me? And, like, un still unpacking all of the trauma from both of my other births and just trying to figure myself out and, like, who I am as a woman and what I want for birth. Right? And I think just every time I would visualize my birth, I was by myself, like, in regards to, like, there's no medical provider there. Every time I'd visualize it, I would have dreams. That's all I desired. Like, I did not desire as much as I loved my midwife. Like, I didn't respectfully want her there.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
I didn't. I just didn't. It's not what I wanted. And it was just kinda through the all the reflection, dissecting mainly Cicely's birth, and the anxiety with that. And my husband literally just speaking to him be like, we don't need a midwife. Like, we don't. So, yeah, it was just basically through a lot of prayer and being like, this is this is where I align. And also just like, I I I'm a Christian. I'm a, a believer of the Christian God. And for me, like, this is God's design for birth. It's a design his his design for us is to birth physiologically, and we don't need anyone there that we don't want there. Like, we don't need these medical providers. So So
Speaker 2
you so your first two babies were not, like, in God's design?
Speaker 3
I mean, I don't believe that that God has, trauma set out for us in our births. Right. Yeah. That's what I believe. I don't believe that, like, God did not create us with an OB. Be like, okay. When this woman gives birth, here it goes. Shove your
Speaker 2
hands up in there. Make sure to really fuck up her urethra.
Speaker 3
Right. Because, like, you know, I no. I believe that God fully designed us capable to give birth without medical supervision, medical management in any way. That's what I believe. And it was through a lot of Or not. Reflecting.
Speaker 2
It's not really, like, a belief. It's a fact.
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 0
Is it a belief? Like, look
Speaker 2
at the deer. Look at the elephants. Look at all the women doing it this way. Yes.
Speaker 3
Yes. That's very true. I would get a lot of kickback on saying that online, so that's why I that's why I say it
Speaker 2
that way. It it's you're talking about just cleansing yourself of, you know, at best managerial systems that no longer apply. Right? And when you are in a close relationship with God, I think it is not uncommon for a woman to discover that part of a close relationship to god is trust and faith.
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. You know what I mean? And and it it is surrender to the process. Like
Speaker 2
It is a, an
Speaker 0
interesting,
Speaker 2
hypocrisy. You know, I think when a lot of people tout their deep faith, you know, in God and then go, you know To
Speaker 3
the hospital.
Speaker 2
Yes. Do all do all that stuff. Although, I guess, anything you do, you could say is got you know, you could you could spiritually weaponize the concepts, in any direction you possibly want. Very normal track to follow.
Speaker 0
You know?
Speaker 2
It makes it's a very logical, thing if you're going to say I really trust in my life here and and my design to be perfect. Well, then allow allow your babies to be born. You know? Allow allow the design to play out as it can.
Speaker 3
Right. Absolutely. I wake up on November eleventh twenty twenty three, and I think to myself, wow. Eleven eleven would be such a cute birthday. And I was forty one and one, so that was, like, early for me because my last pregnancy, I'd gone to forty one and five, and I, you know, induced myself at home. So I was like, let's see here. And I began having very gentle, contractions. Super gentle. And I was like, these are rhythmic. They're about every fifteen to eighteen minutes. Maybe something could happen today. Maybe. Like, I would love this birthday. It's so cute for her. And I didn't know she was a girl, so she was the first baby that I waited with as well. And I just kinda wanna speak to that for a second. So I found out the gender with both of my my older kids. K? And I felt so much more connected with Florence than any other baby, because I wasn't putting her in this box of, like, she's she's a she's a girl. Like, this is gonna be her name and all of these things. Like, I had no idea who she was. I just knew there was a baby inside of me, and I was connecting with this baby no matter who they were. And I just think a lot of the times, women will be like, well, I need to know what I'm having in order to connect. And I even felt that way. And it was just such a beautiful experience, like, not having any
Speaker 2
Control.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Control. Yes.
Speaker 2
The willingness to sit in the mystery and let the baby be, what they are at that time in their life, which is, you know, that that cheesy quote, if the womb was meant meant to be seen, it would have a window on it. Right. I I love that. Yeah. There's so much divine mystery in allowing yourself to not know. And you just, like, hack it all out when you do all the tests and you do all the stuff and you think you know, and you have this sense of control, but the opposite of control is surrender. Right?
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 2
So much magic in
Speaker 3
that. Oh my gosh. It's, like, the most beautiful experience, truly. And I loved it. I loved that. Just connecting with my baby and not, like, who I think they are or the projections that I'm gonna put on them, like, what they're gonna look like and their color of their hair and eyes. I'm like, this is just my baby. That's just my baby. So, like I said, woke up on eleven eleven. I was like, this is her birthday. Well, not knowing she was a she, but this is my baby's birthday. I'm super excited for this. And I did. I started contracting, and I kind of had an inkling, you know, that labor was beginning. And, my photographer was invited to my birth. I wanted it's very it was very important to me that it was captured by her, and she's amazing. She's a little, fly on the wall in births, and, she's I love her. But she lives two hours away, and my last birth was super fast. So I had texted her morning of and said, hey. I'm just having some, like, rhythms. Just, like, let you know, keep it on your radar because my labor last time was super fast. And so I kept in contact with her that early morning. Ultimately, she just decided to drive up and stay at her mom's house because her mom lives near me. So she could just be in the area just in case things kinda sped up. And, I decided to just let it be a day. Like, there you know, we went to my favorite smoothie bowl place and, had some yummy smoothies as I'm contracting and just, like, so excited. And we went to Target to look at Christmas decorations and, like, buy some Christmas decorations. And all the while, just like I'm sitting there like, no one knows I'm in labor right now, but, like, I'm gonna have a baby soon. Like, this is so exciting. So we went out as a family. The last time, being a family of four, doing our our thing, just spending the day, well. And I get home. We all get home, and things are beginning to pick up at this point. They're just getting closer together. And my husband, bless his soul, you are going to laugh at this. He it was a nice sunny day, and he knowing that I'm in labor, he goes, can I go catch a round of golf before things before things pick up? I'm like,
Speaker 2
okay. You guys repaired.
Speaker 3
We are. We are. We are. K. He he's just thinking, alright. This is my last chance to go golf. Interesting. It did feel nice to have, like, a couple hours with my kids asleep as I'm laboring and my husband is golfing. And it's funny because during that time, things really picked up. Like, I was like, okay. I'm like I'm feeling like I could be close to transition at this point. Couldn't even tell you what time of day it was, but it was, like, midday, maybe between, like, two, three, four PM. So I, texted my husband. I'm like, hey. Things are picking up, so you might wanna head back home. So he heads back home, and I had messaged my photographer too. I was like, hey. Just letting you know things are picking up. So my husband gets home, and things are are speeding up. And, we start setting up, like, kind of the birth pool because I thought I was gonna birth in the tub again, even though all of my dreams were a land birth, which is funny. And my doula ends up sorry. She's not a doula photographer. She's doula tog, but photographer. She heads over at four, walks in, and everything stops. So my labor slows down as soon as she comes in, which is funny because I'm safe with her, But it just kinda goes to show.
Speaker 2
You're still observed.
Speaker 3
Yes. Still observed. Because we're all sitting upstairs in the living room. I'm on the ball, and she's sitting down on the chair. My kids are with her. She's snapping some photos, and things really spread out to, like, eighteen to thirty minutes apart. And so she's like, you know what? I'm gonna leave. I think you really need to be alone. You know? And as soon as she leaves, things pick up again. And,
Speaker 2
The irony of birth photography.
Speaker 3
Isn't that funny? Isn't that so funny?
Speaker 2
Very, very common.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I'm like, I I love her so much, and I want those photos. But, like, yeah, it is that that being observed, feeling. And just almost a point.
Speaker 2
And it's like a it's a fundamental oxymoron to be like, I wanna be alone. I need to birth alone, but also take pictures of me. Like, that's a you know?
Speaker 3
Like, the need to perform almost Of course. As well. Like Of course. I need to be having contractions and, like, do I I don't know. Like, yeah, it's just it is such a thing. It really is. I don't regret having her because those photos are so so precious to me. Hashtag worth it. But it is very just, like, telling of, like, how my body would react, you know, like, just her being there. So, yeah, things began to pick up again. And I decide that I'm gonna go lay down in my my bed, have my husband take care of the kids, and they can hang out. And I'm just gonna go turn off the light, lay in my bed, and I'm gonna labor. And goodness. This was me. I don't even know the time for me. I'm sorry. I don't really have time stamps in my head. I was in labor land. I labored there for probably, I don't know, an hour or so, and things were picking up, but I really didn't think that I was, like, close. My labor just wasn't very, like, trackable. It was, like, up and down, up and down, depending on who was in the room at the time, who was at my house at the time, what we were doing. If I was laying down, if I was standing up, I would go from, like, contractions two minutes apart to, like, eighteen minutes, thirty minutes. Like, it was just for me, I was just like, I don't know. I don't know what's gonna happen here. And I labored for about an hour, and then my husband woke me up and said, hey. Let's get the kids down for bed. And so we start getting the kids down for bed. This is probably around, like, seven forty five PM maybe. And so I'm like, okay. And looking back, I'm like, girl, you were literally about to give birth. How did you not know? Like, this is so funny to me because I go into my daughter's room, Cecily. I'm putting her to bed, and I am, like, heavy breathing through the contractions. I'm I can't like, I'm trying to, like, get through my prayers with my kids, and I'm, like, stopping. I'm like, I just, like, can't talk. And my son, he was four four at the time, and he's like, mom, like, trying to get me to, like, keep praying. And I'm, like, in labor, like, literally about to have my baby. It's just so funny to look back at, but I was able to get them into bed, kiss them, and say goodnight. And Cicely went to sleep. Israel was not asleep quite yet, so he was a part of the birth, which was really special. And, I get into my bed after getting the kids down, and I am laying there. And there is, like, a moment in birth where it's like there's no return almost
Speaker 0
for me, where it's
Speaker 3
like I get planted and I'm not gonna move. Like, this is where I'm gonna be. And looking back, like, that happened about fifteen minutes before Florence emerged. And I I laid in my bed, and I'm telling my husband. I'm like, you know what? Our plan was for me to give birth up here in the pool upstairs, and our bedroom is downstairs. And we had the pool the pool set up up here. No water in it yet, but I had called my husband, and I'm like, babe, I can't make it up the stairs. Can you bring the pool down here? Like, let's set it up. Let's get it set up. Like, not knowing that I was about to give birth is just so funny. So he's running around upstairs trying to get the birth pool down here because I thought I wanted another water birth. And as he's upstairs, I have a contraction, and I begin pushing, and my water breaks everywhere all over my mattress. And I yelled, babe, my water broke. And he comes running down the stairs, and he's like, I don't think that we have time to set up the bird pool anymore. And I'm like, okay. That's fine. And so at that moment, as I was beginning to push, I sent a voice message to my photographer. And I'm like, Natalia, I'm pushing. You need to get here. And,
Speaker 2
Oh
Speaker 3
my god. She's freaking out. Good good thing she was fifteen
Speaker 2
make it?
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. She was fifteen minutes away,
Speaker 0
but
Speaker 3
so we looked at, like, our Ring door cam footage or whatever, and she ends up running through our door literally ten seconds before Florence's head emerged. So, like, I could not have divinely planned this, like, well enough. Like, god took care of me because he knew, like, I couldn't have people there, but I still wanted those photos very like, at the end, they were important to me. So I only, you know, had a couple of those pushing contractions, like, two or three of them. And Natalia runs in literally with her camera on as I'm pushing Florence out and is, like, catching, you know, that. And so, her head emerges. And it's funny because I I have no memory of pain, like, pushing her out. With Cicely, I would explain it to people, like, if the pushing phase lasted any longer than it did, I would have died. It was so painful. Like, it was so painful to push that baby out. And with Florence, there was zero pain. Like, I didn't even feel her coming out. Like, I don't know. It was just, like, so different. I didn't feel
Speaker 2
That's third baby magic right there.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, she her head was out, and I had a really nice long break in between her head and her body emerging. And I it was the coolest thing because, like, she's basically, like, between worlds, and I'm just sitting there, like, touching her head, just smiling ear to ear. And I'm like, thank you, God. Thank you, God. Thank you, God. Because I'm, like, realizing, Corinne, like, your free birth. This is your free birth. Like, you you get it. Like, you're doing this. And, like, just being so proud of myself for Mhmm. Letting go of all the drama that I just, like, loved, you know, in those other pregnancies and births. I'll I'll willingly admit that all day long. So, I appreciate that. Yeah. And so, yeah, I just had a really, like, nice long break. And now that I look back at it now, I'm like, man, that that resting point is just so nice, and it's just so sweet to just, like, sit in your body and, like, be like, oh my gosh. Like, soon, this the baby's gonna come out and be there. And, like, the fact that, like, in my son's birth, I in those breaks that I was having was told, oh, you have a lazy uterus
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
When in all reality, it's like, no. This is the magic of birth. Like, this is so beautiful, so precious, and, like, it's just so good. So, yeah. And then another contraction happens, and she she slides out, and my husband, untangles her from her cord. I have babies two for two with nuchal cords that are pretty tingly. I have very long cords with my baby, so she was wrapped up real good. And, I let my husband do that for me, and, we place her on my chest. And, oh my gosh, just the feeling is so you can't even describe it. It's just like you
Speaker 0
have
Speaker 3
to experience it, just how good it is to you're like, oh my gosh. I just like, I gave birth. It just happened. Like, I just I gave birth. That's all I did. And, like, it's so simple, but so beautiful and so perfect. So my husband is sitting there, and he's, like, looking at me because he has, like, all this goo on his hands and, like, blood amniotic fluid. And she had some meconium and he's, like, looking at me, like, I wanna touch you, but my hands are disgusting. And I'm like, I don't care. Just like you can touch me. So he's, like, you know, helping me sit up a little bit. So, So, yeah. And she, had a really good transition. Like, she cried pretty well and pinked up super quickly. And we I had my husband go get my son because we could hear him, poor thing, crying in his room because he heard me, pushing the baby out. And I had had him watch my birth, video with Sicily, and he was all prepped and stuff and new. But still, it's, like, such a big thing for a four year old to, like, be in his room alone while his mom is across the hall, lifting a baby out. So we bring him in. And in between that time where he's grabbing our son, I literally start just hysterically laughing. I'm just sitting there holding my baby. I didn't know, like, that she was Florence yet. I didn't know she was my girl. I'm sitting there just, like, hysterically laughing at everything that had happened, just like the pure joy. And one of my prayers was for this birth that, like, I would be so emotionally, like, available and well in there. Like, I would be able to feel all of my emotions because with my son's birth, I was pulled out of whatever emotion I could have being drugged. You know? And then with my daughter, I felt so numb. And then with the whole separation thing, like, I just didn't I was never able to, like, feel really anything. And it took me so long to process those things, and it's just so it's just so funny. Like, when birth happens the way it's supposed to, like, those things can be. Those things can be. And so, yeah, I I have her, and I'm hysterically laughing, and my husband brings my son in. And it was just so so beautiful, and we look, you know, to see what she is, and she's a girl. And I was she's like, oh, I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew she was my girl. And that's another funny thing is, like, even though I didn't know and it was, like, that unknowing, it's still like there was this intuition there that I, like, allowed myself to have, in that moment of being pregnant with her. Like, still not putting her in that construct or whatever and, like, projecting my things on her, but also it was like this knowing. Like, I know you. Like, looking at her and being like, I know you. This is you. This is who you like, the baby in my womb. This is you. And I never had that feeling with either of my other babies, like, looking in that at them and being like, I knew you. And it's just so crazy, like, even the different bonds and connections that you feel having an intact birth like that
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Is just so wildly different. And it's not to say that I'm not connected to my other babies. Like, clearly, they're my babies, and I love them. But, like, there's something so special and strong about my free birth baby. There really is. It's just like a there's just a difference. There's just a difference there, and it's not necessarily, like, you know I don't know, better. It's just different. I don't wanna say that I'm not connected to my other kids. You're not. That's what I'm trying
Speaker 1
to say.
Speaker 2
But there was undeniable disconnection in the hormonal sequence of your childbirth together, and that doesn't mean you love them less. It's you know? And this is where I think women get really, like, yeah, confused about how to talk about it. But if we're gonna just go to, like, the sequence that when it occurs is set up for optimal bonding
Speaker 0
Right.
Speaker 2
Like, of course, it feels different because you actually got the intended design.
Speaker 3
I think it's just hard for me, like, just to say things like that out loud because it makes me feel like, okay. Well, you're not bonded enough to your son or your daughter. So it is hard for me to say that
Speaker 0
out loud.
Speaker 2
Totally. I know a lot of women are try are trying to navigate that, but I don't think it's that you aren't bonded. Right. You have many, many, many, many, many tentacles of bonding to, let's say, your first baby. So your first child, you know, yes, it was a medicated hospital birth. So there are some I don't know if this is the right analogy, but how I kinda see it in my head is, like, let's say you have a million tentacles to your child. Some of those didn't get to connect. It's just true. But you have a million. You know? Like, there's
Speaker 3
Oh, I love that. I love that.
Speaker 2
So much. And and, also, you never stop bonding. Right? So there were some blips in the, like, first, let's say, twenty four hours, and perhaps along the pregnancy, but but it never ends. You continue creating and nurturing your bond with your child. So it's not like for anyone listening who had a c section or had, you know, all this interruption or a NICU stay, like, yeah, that happened. That does impact. It does affect. And also, you you cannot not be connected to your child because they continue to be your child. Like, every night when you put them to sleep, you're bonding with them. Every book you read to them, every song you sing to them, You know, it's all bonding. It's continuous and ongoing. But I also think we can't deny and shouldn't deny the difference, because it is real. And I hear mothers say this all the time that the the free birth children's behaviors are different, attachments are different, health is different. And I think while I get that that does come with some level of pain and, like, concern of comparing the kids and you would never want your children, you know, to feel like they're less than and all of that, Something that I talk to moms a lot about is the whole seeing the family as a whole organism, and you are learning through your children, through your mothering experiences. And so you, like, yeah, it does just like objectively kinda suck that your son got the like shitty birth. Like, yes, that sucks. And he also came first because he could handle it, and he came first because on some soul spiritual level, he was up for this story with you. You know? And and your Florence baby, you know, your third, gets to reap all the beautiful benefits of your learning curve as a mother, but so does he. Because, yes, he was a hospital born child, but then he got to be a part of Florence's birth, and so that's a part of his story too. It's not over with that he was a drugged birth baby. That's just one part of his whole big story, which is still unfolding in your family. Right? But he he gets to experience so much healing and growth and and intactness by being a part of your family and you being the central, you know, the central nervous system of the entire family's organism. You know, everyone is healing through your healing. Do you know does that make sense what I'm saying?
Speaker 3
You know, that thank you for saying that because that's really freeing for me, and it's you articulated it so well because all everything that you said is, like, the feeling inside of me. But to verbalize it, like you said, is painful and hard to be like, you know what? Like, there is a different bond there. So I appreciate you going into that and saying that. Now I have words for it, and I'm able to, you know, speak to that. So, yeah, I really appreciate you going into that. Thank you for saying that.
Speaker 2
And he his story was a part of knowing better and doing better. Right? Like, that inspired what then is for your whole family. Mhmm. And because I work with a lot of moms who are like, how am I gonna tell my c section baby or my birth trauma baby his story someday. And then then when they go on to have free birth, they can feel quite guilty. And, like, oh, wow. So your sibling got this, like, epic birth and yours was all fucked up and we were apart for four days and, you know, whatever. There's obviously so many horrible stories out there. And that's always what I go to is, like, it's not isolated. It's all a part of the tree of the whole family story and that you are, again, you know, the healing force that is knowing better and doing better through the learned experiences of of mothering, they all benefit from that. It's, you know, it's not happening on a hierarchy. That's not, like, yes, there's objective natural law that, like, okay. Normal physiological birth is better, like, for the mother baby. Yes. Of course. But how that translates into the health and bonding and connection of the family, is more complicated than a black and white comparison.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah. I really appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 2
So how long this was exactly a year ago.
Speaker 3
So, yeah, she'll be one she'll be one on the eleventh.
Speaker 2
Eleven eleven.
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's cute. Yes.
Speaker 2
And so let's close with, this question I love to ask women, which is how has, how has free birth changed you? Like, how are you different now? What do you notice about yourself? Yeah. How has it impacted your life?
Speaker 3
Man, I think the biggest thing that comes to mind is letting go of that drama that I, you know, was willingly participating in because of the excitement, like and just really leaning into the discernment and intuition that I was given and following those things throughout my entire life now. Like, the just the big overarching theme is leaning into, like, my knowing and myself, and not, like, playing this game almost with I don't even know. Like, playing this game with myself out of, like, I don't know, excitement. That's just the best way that I can describe it. And just I have had I'm not fully, like, healed from my anxiety from my second birth, but Florence's birth has been so healing. That's, like, the biggest thing is, like, oh my gosh. She's just healed. Her birth has healed so much. That happened, mainly in Sicily's birth just because they were both born at home in the in the same room, in the same environment, And just it's, like, given me the freedom to now, like, really work on that healing, that happened from my second birth and just being chill. Like, I don't know. I just have this, like, chill, feeling about me and just, like, really being intuitive with motherhood. And, like, Florence is the first baby that I've had who's never seen a pediatrician because I still did the well visits with my other two. Like, my other two babies wore the Owlette sock at night. Florence is my first baby that I have never put that on her. Like, it's just there's so much Wow. Connection and healing and trust and knowing because in my other baby's, like, that was always there in me, but I let this other thing take,
Speaker 2
I don't know, like, precedence. The shift of outsourcing to
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 2
Having a real sense of self.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, it's always been there within me, but I've always let it kinda, like, take the back burner. And like you said, like, outsource to other things, and she's the first baby that, like, I have really fully allowed that to be.
Speaker 2
Nice.
Speaker 3
And, like, us to just be, us to just birth, us to just, breastfeed, us to just be a family. And let me tell you, like, she is so special. She's so special to me. Not that my other kids aren't. We have already discussed this, but, like, there's just, like, a twinkle about her that I'm like, you are a free birth baby. Like, it's just so obvious. It's just so obvious, like, just how she is, just who she is, her personality.
Speaker 0
Well,
Speaker 2
and and she's a reflection of where you're at.
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely. You know? Absolutely. Yeah. And I've been able to even see a shift in my other kids too, honestly, like, through this transition and, their their security. And, there was kind of a distance between me and Cicely for a long time because of that anxiety piece. Like, she almost preferred my husband sometimes, and I almost I'm like, well, did she feel that, though? Like, was she feeling that anxiety from me Yes. And, like, that disconnection. Yes. And now, like, she's a mama's girl. So, like, there's been, like, healing and she
Speaker 2
She feels safe with
Speaker 3
you. Yes.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, you're you're the nervous system of your family whether you like it or not. And so if you're a fucking train wreck, and I'm not saying you like anyone, you know, like if if whoever, any of us are a train wreck and we're dysregulated and we're anxious and blah blah blah blah blah, you know, like that that shows up in our family for sure. For sure. Because we are the central nervous system whether we like it or not. We're the moms. You know? Right.
Speaker 0
We're the
Speaker 2
moms and the wives. Like, that is that's a that's the center of the whole of the whole shebang. And so it's no it's not surprising to me that as you find your power and and and begin to live from from inside out into the world and begin to really trust yourself and let your choices reflect your trust and your faith and your, surrender and and your instincts and your intuition, it's no surprise that your children would respond towards that.
Speaker 3
Right. And even just for me, my husband's relationship, like, our free birth is so healing for us as well because he he was never, like, able to be involved in even in the capacity I wanted him to be in the hospital birth and also in our home birth with Sicily because his mother was there, and there was disconnection between us as well. And a lot of our healing took place in Florence's pregnancy, but then it was just kinda like the grand finale to get to just birth together and, like, for him to just be there and get to play the role of the father and the protector and live out the seed that he had planted. You know?
Speaker 2
In in more ways than one.
Speaker 0
Yes. In more ways
Speaker 3
than one. I love that. So
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's a
Speaker 3
good deal. So it's kind of like, yeah, my husband had kind of, like, spoke this into existence for us, and it was really me just, like, pulling things out of myself to get to that point. But yeah.
Speaker 2
Well, how can women find you and follow you since I know you're putting lots of fun stuff about your life out there?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I share a lot of my journey on Instagram. That's, Corinne Adele. And then I just started a podcast a couple of weeks ago called The Mindful Mama Podcast. So you can find me on all platforms there as well. So, yeah, Corinne Adele on everything and then Mindful Mama for my podcast.
Speaker 2
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 3
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below, and of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of Sovereign Birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and of course, our annual women's gathering, the matriarch rising festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, the lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding, the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your present. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
Speaker 0
Wild woman, she still lives in the high. Wild woman, from you, I will not hide. They could not bend your spirits away, so please teach me your way. I'm ready to learn from you
