00:00:00:11 - 00:00:22:21
Unknown
When you need guidance from someone you can truly trust, someone who aligns with your values of sovereignty and natural living. Look no further than Doctor Jennifer Tice. Doctor Jen's expertise in homeopathy and natural family care is unmatched. She is my personal go to when I need an opinion on how to best support my family and myself when we are healing and something I'm always telling everyone about.
00:00:22:22 - 00:00:54:10
Unknown
Doctor Jen runs a very specific food intolerance test. Having this information has quite literally changed my life once I decided to take it seriously. Knowing what our specific foods were to avoid has radically improved the health of myself and my children. So if you're looking to uplevel your health, head over to Doctor Jennifer Tice and you can find her on Instagram at Doctor Jennifer Tice.
00:00:54:12 - 00:01:29:16
Unknown
Into the wild and go into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom Child, since I left my roots back home into I don't go into the wild I hid. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood and beyond.
00:01:29:18 - 00:01:49:11
Unknown
Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative. We'll explore the politics of birth and will analyze everything that relates to our lives as women. From a feminist perspective, here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. Wild freedom child.
00:01:49:13 - 00:01:54:16
Unknown
Sense of love. My.
00:01:54:18 - 00:02:00:01
Unknown
Bare home.
00:02:00:03 - 00:02:26:22
Unknown
Women. It is 2025, which means it is time for you to take your place in the sovereign birth movement. I am thrilled to announce that our absolutely groundbreaking, life changing, consciousness shifting, super popular program, The Radical Birth Keeper School, is now open for enrollment. This is your chance. We run the Radical Birth Keeper School once a year, so now is the time to jump in.
00:02:26:23 - 00:02:49:12
Unknown
You love this podcast. You're obsessed with birth. You want a better world for women and families. So here it is. I am inviting you to join the 850 women from over 30 countries who have taken this program and now are confidently bringing this work forward, protecting the sacredness of birth being an option so desperately needed for mothers and babies.
00:02:49:16 - 00:03:13:19
Unknown
From women brand new to birth, to curious mothers pregnant with their first child, to disillusioned midwives and doulas, even OB gyns and nurses, women are flocking to this new paradigm of birth consciousness, and the radical birth keeper school is the gateway. The RBCs school is the place to gain the language and the knowledge, to communicate and step into the sovereign birth paradigm with confidence.
00:03:13:19 - 00:03:40:23
Unknown
If you feel the call, answer it. By taking your place in the UK school. Head over to Radical Birth School today to preview the full curriculum here from our many graduates and learn more. Mentorship. Sisterhood. Lifetime access the knowledge, wisdom and guidance you need to take your place in the sovereign birth revolution. All totally unlocked. Be the change.
00:03:40:23 - 00:03:45:15
Unknown
Join us. Radical birth keeper school.
00:03:45:17 - 00:04:13:16
Unknown
Every now and then a product comes along that our entire family can't get enough of. And lately it's masa chips. Delicious chips made the way food was meant to be. Just three simple ingredients organic corn salt and beef tallow. No seed oils, no fillers, no ultra processed garbage. Just real whole food that nourishes rather than depletes. What we put into our bodies matters.
00:04:13:16 - 00:04:42:17
Unknown
It affects our energy, our mood, our resilience. And yet, the food industry today is completely disconnected from what's real and nourishing. Just like birth, food is one of the most powerful ways to claim sovereignty over our bodies, and it's no surprise that a sovereign birthing family is who makes these chips. When you snack snack on something real. Go to masa chips.
00:04:42:19 - 00:05:07:16
Unknown
And use code free birth for 20% off your first order. Abigail, do you go by Abigail ever? I do, it feels really professional, but I do. It means God's joy. Oh. That's pretty. You're in my phone as Abigail, but obviously I don't call you that. And so anytime I go to text you, I have to remember that it isn't Abby.
00:05:07:17 - 00:05:34:09
Unknown
For some reason, it's Abigail. I need to change it. Yeah. No, I, I go by Abigail, but most people call me Abby. Yeah, yeah, that's how I know you. Yeah, well, I'm excited to have you on for a number of reasons. You know, you've been. We've been connected for a good couple years now, and I think our first interaction was you coming to the fire within, pregnant with what goes on to be your free birth baby, right?
00:05:34:10 - 00:06:00:13
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. That's such a cool, cool way to meet. And then since then, for context, for everyone listening, I mean, you've become a much bigger part of my life as you have. You're part of the lighthouse, our private membership. But also you've brought your some of your best women into Matriarch Rising over the last several years and now become this, like, just totally joyful layer of the festival.
00:06:00:13 - 00:06:20:23
Unknown
I can't imagine doing it without you women now so that we have so much fun. Yeah, I know you're so excited for this year. Yeah. Me too, I love it. I love having you women a part of that. And then you're also in MMI. So here, just in it, you're doing all the stuff. Oh man, we're definitely in it.
00:06:21:01 - 00:06:49:14
Unknown
It's been awesome. So where do you want to start with your first story. You know how far back like it's up to you. Do you want to start with any pregnant or what? What is your relationship to pregnancy and birth as you move into that first first baby? Yeah, I feel like I need to start like with, with the content of like my life leading up a little bit leading up to my first baby.
00:06:49:16 - 00:07:12:20
Unknown
So I grew up very indoctrinated and conditioned by the medical system. Like my parents, I always like, say jokingly, but at the same time it's not really a joke. It's kind of sad that like, I was very much like raised on a diet of fear and shame, and we very much were like, got to take the medicines, you got to go to the doctor.
00:07:12:20 - 00:07:48:21
Unknown
So like, like I was very much taught, like not to trust myself, my body. And that was the example I was getting from my parents because that's how they lived as well. So that's how I was raised. My husband and I met when we I was 20 years old. He was 24. I was in college, and he was an aspiring race car driver, and I was going to school for public relations and communication, and we started dating and then we started working together.
00:07:48:21 - 00:08:14:05
Unknown
So that's like how our relationship formed. And this was 20 years ago. So, so yeah, we were I spent my 20s with him, like very much in the automotive industry. We were working together, we were traveling the world, partying a lot and very much, allowing other people to control, like the decisions about my health, like I was.
00:08:14:05 - 00:08:41:16
Unknown
I was on like anxiety medication growing up. I was on Accutane, of course. God, yeah, I know, fucking Accutane, I know. Take a moment for Accutane. Awful. I remember being 13 and like looking at the pamphlet of the deformed babies and it's awful. Oh my God, I know, I know people, I know people in my age group currently.
00:08:41:16 - 00:09:04:13
Unknown
I mean, you know what, the same age that still have residual negative health effects from the Accutane that they took as teenagers. Yeah. So gross. Yeah. Luckily, I don't think I was on it too long. I think maybe like a year or two, but still awful. I had to go get like blood tests regularly to like, make sure I don't know that I was still alive.
00:09:04:14 - 00:09:25:13
Unknown
Red flag. Yeah. And then. Yeah. So I was on a bunch of medication. Like, it was always like, oh, there's something wrong with me. And that's like how I was taught by my parents, like, oh, you have a symptom. You need to go get a pill for it. Which obviously now I know absolutely different. I'm fully on board with, like, the German New Medicine.
00:09:25:15 - 00:09:48:18
Unknown
Teachings, even though sometimes I don't want to be on board with it because it's really hard to like, like, not blame other things and take full responsibility for my health and what's going on with my emotions. But that's how I grew up. So my husband and I got together. We were fully like in it as far as like our work and traveling and doing all those things.
00:09:48:18 - 00:10:15:04
Unknown
And then I started having big health issues, I think around the time I was 30, so that like, astrology was like Saturn Returns thing, like I was like some big shift was happening in my life and I was very much like adrenaline, like masculine, like go, go, go, do do do. And my body started breaking down, and I had a big emotional breakdown as well.
00:10:15:05 - 00:10:35:02
Unknown
It was a big like Dark Night of the soul, I'd say. I realized I needed to quit the automotive industry and get out of that, and I did. It was a big deal for me to tell my husband, because we had built this, like empire together, because he does go on to become a professional. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah, I got that.
00:10:35:02 - 00:10:57:16
Unknown
Yeah. He, he went professional when he not long after we started dating and I was doing all his public relations. I was running our team doing like all the logistics also being his girlfriend and wife and like being the mama of the team. Like I was doing like six people's jobs at once, which I feel like attributed to my absolute load.
00:10:57:22 - 00:11:17:11
Unknown
And then when I left our business, it was actually a very big blessing in disguise, because then he had to go on to like, find the competent people, the people who enjoy doing those jobs. And and because I obviously only want to be doing work that's good. And I was at a point where I'm like this, this isn't even fun to me anymore.
00:11:17:17 - 00:11:38:15
Unknown
I was once enjoying what I was doing, and now it's just it's just it's just, you know, how life just directs you in a different way. Like, like the pain of staying the same becomes more than the pain of change. So you have to change. So I was at that point where I had to change. So I did, and my husband understood.
00:11:38:17 - 00:12:01:14
Unknown
It was a point where I was like, I know that this maybe could break our relationship, but if it's meant to, it's meant to, but it didn't. And I went on to just take a break from that. And then I got inspired to start. Well before that, I had been getting really into CrossFit in like 2013. I just had this calling to like, strengthen my body.
00:12:01:14 - 00:12:21:02
Unknown
And that was probably the first time that I was like, I want to become healthy because of how the way it feels rather than how I look like. That was the shift in my mind. And like around 2012, 2013, and I really started taking care of my body more so around then when I quit the business, I was like, I want to start training mixed martial arts.
00:12:21:03 - 00:12:49:16
Unknown
So I went into this big leap for two years and started training and may Brazilian jiu jitsu, Muay Thai, kickboxing and was like entering fights and going through this. Yeah, it was two years process of something that needed to happen within me. I think it was like digesting a lot of anger, a lot of emotions and like challenging myself in a new way.
00:12:49:16 - 00:13:09:16
Unknown
But I also really learned to trust my body in that process because I was getting beat up like I was getting, I was getting, I was I was training twice a day and I was doing incredible things to my body, like I was in the best shape ever, but at the same time, like, I would get hurt or injured or I'd have to cut weight or do this or do that.
00:13:09:16 - 00:13:27:22
Unknown
And I was learning so much about my body and what it could handle, what it couldn't handle, and I was couldn't handle. And I was learning to trust it. Like one time I got a big injury where I felt I never got it diagnosed, but I felt that I had tore my meniscus. And of course I was like, I'm not going to the hospital.
00:13:27:22 - 00:13:51:21
Unknown
I wasn't in that mentality. Then I had this belief that it would heal naturally. And so through all that process, I came into this my body can heal naturally mentality, which I hadn't really had before. So that was the shift of like me really learning how to trust my body, connect with it through nutrition, through my lifestyle and through physical fitness.
00:13:52:00 - 00:14:19:21
Unknown
And so that was a huge shift. And that was like 2015 to 2017, 18. And then in that time around 2018, now in 2018, my husband and I went to Jamaica because we had been going to Jamaica every winter, thinks I was 2010 and I went on quite a journey and for like three days was at one with everything all around me.
00:14:19:21 - 00:14:33:10
Unknown
And, and I started hearing messages about how, okay, what plant are you on? Still diving. Okay.
00:14:33:12 - 00:15:02:02
Unknown
So yeah, I had some delicious tea and I and it was funny because I was just like. Like, I don't care how much I drink, I know that I'll drink as much as I'm supposed to. And I drink this tea. And for like three days, I was just connected to everything that was actually like when I would say I woke up, like, I mean, of course there's lots of times we wake up in life, but that was the first time that I could feel like, oh my gosh, there's something more than me.
00:15:02:06 - 00:15:27:12
Unknown
Like there's something bigger. So that was 2000. And in 2017, at the beginning of no, I'm sorry, that was 2017 because my son was born in 2018. So that was in 2017, and I started getting these messages in Jamaica and I started writing them all down. You will have a son by April. This was in January. So three months or you will have a pregnant by April.
00:15:27:12 - 00:15:55:02
Unknown
So that was three months later. His name will start with his name will be Gabriel is what came to me, something about the number eight and some other messages later. In hindsight, I realized it was I'm very much in touch with angels. Like, that's that's my spirits I talked to. It was Archangel Gabriel talking to me. Who is the messenger who tells Mary she's going to have a baby at Jesus.
00:15:55:02 - 00:16:17:20
Unknown
And and spoiler alert, the baby Mary has his Jesus. Yes. I didn't know what to Jesus. I don't know if you guys have heard about this. It's crazy story. Yeah. So it was it was Archangel Gabriel. And that was the first time I had talked to Archangel Gabriel. And now, like, Angel is like, they're all like. They're like the ones that talk to me.
00:16:17:22 - 00:16:38:17
Unknown
But he was Archangel Gabriel. Yeah. Telling me. And that I would have a son. And his name was going to start with a G. But it wasn't Gabriel and ended up being gunner. And the number eight was that that ended up being his birth path number. And I did end up getting pregnant before April. So fast forward we go.
00:16:38:18 - 00:17:01:12
Unknown
We get home from Jamaica. I was actually still on birth control at the time. I was on the copper IUD and I had to take it out immediately. Did you feel ready to be pregnant? Yeah, I was super excited, like I it just felt so right. Like I had never had that in touch of an experience with spirit before.
00:17:01:12 - 00:17:27:00
Unknown
I was like, oh, that's real. I never felt something so real before. So I talked about it with my husband, J.R., and he was on board pretty much right away with that. And so we got home, I took out my IUD. I was getting all excited because I was like, yeah, I'm going to have a baby. I'm going to plan for it.
00:17:27:01 - 00:17:55:02
Unknown
Like, I was an am, like such a like planner as far as, like, okay, I'm going to do all these things. So I was going to yoga. I've been doing yoga for since I was 20, and I was going to yoga. And one of the yoga teachers there, was doing a like putting on a workshop for, for pregnant mothers, like getting ready to birth.
00:17:55:04 - 00:18:12:07
Unknown
And I showed up to it and I wasn't even pregnant yet. And like everyone else was like coupled. And I was alone. I was like, I don't care. I'm just like, this is like me manifesting, like I'm going to be pregnant soon. So I'm going to go learn as much as I can right now. And she mentioned something to me about she was like to everyone.
00:18:12:07 - 00:18:36:06
Unknown
She was like, I really hope you all consider natural birth. And I was like, natural birth. Now I have to rewind because the only thing that's birth to me before then was hospital, and I never even thought about how I was going to birth. So I was like, natural birth. Okay, what is that? And because I'm all about going against the grain, I don't want to do things the way other people do it.
00:18:36:06 - 00:18:51:08
Unknown
So I was like, okay, I'll do something different. And I started googling it and I started saying home birth. And I was like, oh my gosh, I can have a baby at home. Of course I'm going to do that. I do not want to go to a hospital, but it's just so funny. I never even considered how the baby was going to be born.
00:18:51:08 - 00:19:10:10
Unknown
It was just like, yeah, I'm going to get pregnant and have a baby. Well, I mean, our culture is completely devoid of that conversation. You know, like, I talk about it all the time. And so my daughter's already talking about it and thinking about it. I'm sure your kids are, too. I know they're not females, but, like, you know, just by extension of the conversation in the home.
00:19:10:10 - 00:19:31:02
Unknown
And that wasn't a conversation in your home is my guess. Yeah, it wasn't at all as crazy as it is to think that we didn't think about that stuff growing up. Of course we didn't, you know. Yeah, I had never even heard anything about my birth story at all until I was pregnant with my first. And I, like, actually asked about it.
00:19:31:04 - 00:19:53:07
Unknown
Yeah. We never talked about babies and, yeah, you know, all we saw, all I saw was like, awful depictions in movies that it's going to be painful. It's going to be horrible. I'm going to be screaming it my husband and yeah, so I was super excited that I was like, I can do something that other people don't do that I don't know anyone else doing.
00:19:53:08 - 00:20:19:08
Unknown
Of course, other people have home birth, but I didn't know anybody at the time. So it was exciting to me. And yeah, so that was my decision. I and it's funny, I actually this is a reveal because I don't think you know this, but I knew who you were at the time because when I was, like, big into my CrossFit days, I was following a woman on Instagram named Gracie.
00:20:19:08 - 00:20:39:11
Unknown
I don't remember her last name, but she ended up having her child like we were pregnant at exactly the same time together. And I think this is when you lived maybe in California, but she like, went to go visit you and she posted about it and her and I would like chat back and forth. So that's how I learned about free birth was because she had a free birth.
00:20:39:14 - 00:20:58:03
Unknown
She had a free birth. So I have known about free birth and I when I was pregnant I did look, I like looked I was listening to two podcasts or I was listening to a home birth podcast. And then I found the Free Birth Society podcast. And I like, listen to one episode and I just have to reveal I was like extremely triggered at the time and really honest.
00:20:58:04 - 00:21:17:16
Unknown
Like it scared me a little bit because and here's why. It's because I was not ready to hear women's stories. Of course I wasn't ready to hear, but it's like I was never able to get to the free verse story because I couldn't get past the traumatic stories. You know, I like was very much like, I don't want to hear anything negative.
00:21:17:18 - 00:21:36:18
Unknown
I don't want to hear anything negative. Like that's who I was. I was very fearful because there was a lot of fear coming at me from from my family and my friends. As soon as I was like, I'm having a home birth. Like I would get all the questions. Of course, that's what everyone like. What happens with most women unless they have a really supportive family, which I did not.
00:21:36:20 - 00:21:59:22
Unknown
So I was listening to a home birth podcast. I was super on board with the home birth home birth, and I ended up finding a midwife, a registered or a licensed midwife. And now looking back like what? I didn't know that there was any other option. I just wanted like women there with me to just be in North Carolina.
00:21:59:23 - 00:22:26:16
Unknown
This was in Maryland. So we lived in Maryland. Yeah. So, so and that we'll have to get into I'll be telling about like the laws and stuff when it comes to that. So, so I just wanted like someone there who knew more about birth and who could, like, educate me and support me. But then at the same time, I take full responsibility that, like, I actually, like, chose to give my power away.
00:22:26:16 - 00:22:49:08
Unknown
I never really took the time to learn about physiological birth and and yeah, there was just no one around me teaching that. So I all I knew was the home or the midwife route. So I found a midwife close to me. It was her and a student midwife. And I would do I would go for the prenatal like once a month.
00:22:49:14 - 00:23:16:18
Unknown
I refused all tests. My husband and I had taken this like mama natural birth course, which was like very edgy for us at the time, but I could see how it also still was very conditioned with lots of things. But I did learn like that's what taught me a lot of the stuff that I didn't know about, like refusing the tests and not like, of course you don't circumcise and yeah, I don't need any checks or anything.
00:23:16:18 - 00:23:42:09
Unknown
So I didn't have any cervical checks. I didn't get any tests. I would just go there and talk to them and they would palpate my belly. At 20 weeks or so, we did do a 2D ultrasound because my husband really wanted to know the gender, and for some reason I couldn't do like the blood test or something.
00:23:42:10 - 00:24:03:15
Unknown
They do like a test, I guess, for checking the sex of the baby, and for some reason I wasn't able to do it. I don't know why I think they actually said I was too old, which was very weird. So we did that. And it's funny, it's funny. Just knowing what I know now, especially about, especially being in the MMI program of like I went in real quick.
00:24:03:15 - 00:24:22:00
Unknown
It was like a it was like it wasn't in a hospital, was like a like ultrasound place. And I was like, I just want real quick, tell me the gender and we're out. And she was like, okay. And and the woman was like, oh. And he's heads, he's heads down and and like, it's just funny, like 20 weeks.
00:24:22:00 - 00:24:49:08
Unknown
Who cares, right? Yeah. So we found out he was a boy. I didn't really care about finding out the gender, but my husband really did because I skipped the. I skipped a few things. I had another little dark night of the soul before I had. I, like, woke up in Jamaica where I had a dog who was like my child at the time, and he tragically passed away at six years old.
00:24:49:08 - 00:25:14:05
Unknown
And that is actually what sent me down this path of natural like holistic healing, because I was like trying to do all these, like, holistic things with him. And from that, from that, he was actually just over, over vaccinated and losing blood and a lot of stuff. And it was a really, really awful, awful ordeal for me at the time.
00:25:14:05 - 00:25:37:00
Unknown
It felt like the biggest loss, like ever. So that sent me down the track of finding Reiki, because I met a holistic vet who talked to talk to me about Reiki and said it was a great thing to have for myself and for my family and that. And that's like entered me into the world of energy and energy work.
00:25:37:00 - 00:26:00:14
Unknown
And that actually attributed to waking up a little bit later. So I was learning Reiki, I became a Reiki master, Reiki Master teacher, all within like the six seven month period. My Reiki teacher would give me Reiki regularly. We would trade and she is actually the one who told me that I was pregnant when she gave me Reiki one time.
00:26:00:14 - 00:26:29:13
Unknown
And so after that I got really excited because I, I felt it too. And she she told me at the time that it was a boy and I went home and got a test. And that's how I found out that I actually was pregnant with the boy. I mean, we consider at the time, like not taking a test and just trusting I was I just wanted to know for sure, for sure.
00:26:29:15 - 00:26:53:19
Unknown
So we confirmed that it was a boy with that ultrasound. So fast forward back to that. We're doing the prenatal, we're getting closer. I'm like, great shape during this pregnancy. I feel great because I'm still, like, doing CrossFit all the time. I was like, super into CrossFit. I was like, super into, like the like, yeah, I'm pregnant first baby and like and like, super fit.
00:26:53:20 - 00:27:22:03
Unknown
Feeling great. Like that's like definitely like what my mentality was like. I just really wanted to, like, prove to everyone that I could be, like, healthy and fit and be doing the homework thing. And yeah, those are all really great things. Yeah, totally. And I was still doing lots of yoga. So yeah, so we get closer to, to when he's actually born and a lot of stuff happens in between then.
00:27:22:03 - 00:27:49:03
Unknown
And I'm still feeling great. So it's a December, and I thought he was going to be born. All right. December 8th. December 7th. This is 2018. On December 3rd of 2018. And I went to.
00:27:49:05 - 00:28:24:14
Unknown
A prenatal visit and the student midwife palpate in my belly. And the student midwife was like always the one of palpate my belly, which I now find is interesting. She was palpitating my belly she was learning and and she told me, yeah, baby is heads down. And I said, okay, cool. And we leave to go home. This is probably around four that we leave to go home.
00:28:24:16 - 00:28:46:05
Unknown
It takes 30 minutes to get home. On the way home, I started feeling like cramps. Like more intense cramps. I kind of were feeling them a little bit at the appointment, and I told them and they were like, oh, this is this could just be like some early, early things like, we don't think your baby's coming for probably at least another week.
00:28:46:07 - 00:29:05:12
Unknown
Yeah. And I when they speak with such authority about this stuff. Yeah. And like, at the time, I convinced I thought that, like, maybe it was me downplaying it then made them say that because. Because I'm just, like, kind of chill person. Like, I'm. I'm like, I don't make big deals about things. I'm like, yeah, I'm feeling some stuff.
00:29:05:12 - 00:29:23:00
Unknown
But I wasn't like, oh my God, I'm feeling a lot of stuff right now. So like, so I like I wanted to kind of be like, like, why did they say that? But at the same time, I kind of blame myself. I was like, oh, well, maybe I downplayed it and maybe I should be making more of a big deal over the sensations that I'm feeling.
00:29:23:01 - 00:30:04:23
Unknown
No, they should be good midwives and good midwives would understand your personality a and and that plenty of women are like that. There's nothing wrong or weird about what you shared in the way that you shared it. But when birth providers, medical professionals, whatever, I mean, sovereign, non-medical can do this to act with such arrogance, it always makes me think they must not have a lot of birth experience, because anyone who's been doing this for a while know is that a woman can go from cramps to pushing in a couple hours, you know, like, come on, it's so weird how common that is.
00:30:05:01 - 00:30:36:17
Unknown
Yeah, and that was the case for me. Really? Yeah. So you're also the obvious candidate of someone who would have a quicker, a quicker birth, like with how fit you were and just your kind of chill personality. I'm kind of making that up. I don't know if that's like really substantiated, but it doesn't surprise me. Yeah. I mean, I definitely was a quick person and and like, I, I yeah, I was just like real like go go go like fast like.
00:30:36:18 - 00:31:03:02
Unknown
Yeah. And so we were driving home and I was like, oh, that's, that's more, that's more. So I was, I was feeling these more like tightening cramps. And then we got home and they were starting to get bigger. So like I said, we were in Maryland and I go into our bedroom and I have my Reiki table, like, set up in like this corner of our bedroom.
00:31:03:02 - 00:31:18:08
Unknown
And I had the yoga ball and just leaned my head over the table just like collapse on it. And I would just, like, roll my hips like, that was the only thing that was like, I could do right then, like what my body wanted to do. I guess I should say it's just like, roll my hands and just feel that.
00:31:18:13 - 00:31:42:11
Unknown
And so this was probably 435 maybe. And then I must also reveal to that I started remembering all this timeline a couple weeks ago to prepare for this. And then my husband reminded me that we had a birth. We had a video that I had not watched. It had been, it's been six years and I have not watched it.
00:31:42:12 - 00:32:04:19
Unknown
Oh, yes. And and I and I realized now it's because I had no desire to watch it. I like had it hadn't come up to me, but now, like, it was the perfect timing, like I was supposed to watch it before this, to get it to, like, see it all. So at he cut the video a bit so that he could like have the timeline.
00:32:04:19 - 00:32:33:11
Unknown
It was actually really cute. Like he had like the birth of Gunnar Gittin and like he. So he was just like sharing the timeline. So at 6:00, 615, I was on the birth ball in our bedroom. I had like a, bozo. I guess it's called hanging from the ceiling. I was just, like, pulling on it. And then I would do that, go back to laying my head on the Reiki table.
00:32:33:13 - 00:32:50:12
Unknown
Soon after that, I went and got in the shower. And I would I was sitting down on this, like, step we have in the shower and just like spraying the water on my belly. And I was just like, doing the oh.
00:32:50:14 - 00:33:19:17
Unknown
And then in the video, I see myself, like talking to myself. So I was in it like I could tell I was in it then. So this is like 630, 630 ish of like I was journeying for sure. And then my husband wanted me to get asked me to get out of the shower because he wanted to start the tub, and we had this humongous tub at our old house, and the water from the shower would not allow the tub to fill up, so we needed to be able to start filling the tub up.
00:33:19:19 - 00:33:44:01
Unknown
At some point around then, he called the doula. I have to backtrack about this. That yoga teacher I mentioned who did that workshop. She also was a doula, and she's who I hired as my doula. And she had actually never attended a home birth before. She had only attended hospital births, which I knew at the time.
00:33:44:03 - 00:34:04:01
Unknown
But I was able to accept that, and I don't think I even looked into like trying to find one who would do has done homework, because I don't think I could at the time, or I just didn't like dig deep enough into it. So she came. And when she came, this was probably, I want to say, maybe 8:00 or so.
00:34:04:03 - 00:34:31:11
Unknown
730, 8:00 I was back on the yoga ball, head over the Reiki table. In it I was for sure doing the loud, loud, loud moans like more so screaming. And I reached down and felt my yoni, and I felt what felt like something like ribbed coming out a little bit. And I asked her to look with her phone, like her flashlight.
00:34:31:11 - 00:34:50:17
Unknown
And it was she goes, it's a foot. And I look at her. I look at her very sternly, because I remember just being hit with this wave of fear and saying, we're not going anywhere, because that's like the first thing I thought of. The first thing I thought of was, oh, they're going to want me to go to a hospital.
00:34:50:22 - 00:35:15:01
Unknown
And we never like, really talked about that much. We just I just knew that like that you can't deliver breech. You're not supposed to deliver breech births at home. But through all these prenatally, we hadn't talked much about what would happen if he was breech. I thought he was head down the whole time. We never really talked much about emergencies or backup plans.
00:35:15:02 - 00:35:30:00
Unknown
One, because I also didn't really want to entertain it, much like they of course, like licensed midwives have to say, okay, well, if we're going to transfer, what hospital is the one you want to go to? So I have to pick a hospital. But I just like didn't entertain it. I was like, oh, that's not going to happen.
00:35:30:00 - 00:35:52:08
Unknown
That's not going to happen. Luckily, it didn't happen to me. Spoiler alert. But I straight up said to my Duala, we're not going anywhere. And she said to me, she looks at me and says, are they going to allow you to birth in the tub? And like, just struck me so odd when that she said that, like, are they going to allow you?
00:35:52:11 - 00:36:15:11
Unknown
Like I felt like I had like I had to ask permission for something. Yeah, yeah I do. Yeah. But then it was just so different than because I don't think I had realized then and it was starting to hit me what I signed up for basically. Yeah. So, very. Oh. So I ended up getting on the floor.
00:36:15:13 - 00:36:39:16
Unknown
I'm on the floor. My chest is over the yoga ball. I'm on all fours. Side note of where I was giving birth was where my dog had left this plane a year prior. Like in the exact same coordinate on Earth, like in the middle of our bedroom. He his soul left and his word gunner was coming through the calls.
00:36:39:16 - 00:37:06:20
Unknown
The midwives calls the the main midwife. I'm just going to say their names because, maybe they'll listen to this. And I like saying names. Anyway, so Deanne is the first is the main midwife. Hannah was the student midwife. And I also just want to say to that, like they, I know that they're very misguided and we're doing their jobs.
00:37:06:20 - 00:37:29:01
Unknown
It's what they signed up for and who knows how people change. So maybe if someone listens to if they listen to this now, they would. Who knows if they've done a complete 180? Because I've met women also through this program who have done that, they've done a complete 180 of being involved in the system and then or 360 or 180 whatever, and then change their ways.
00:37:29:01 - 00:37:53:14
Unknown
So it's my hopes that that would happen to, to them. So I called Diane the main midwife and she and told her that gunner was breech and she, like, paused on the phone with him. This is what my husband told me. She had paused on the phone with him and be like, oh, okay, okay, I gotta I gotta figure some things out.
00:37:53:17 - 00:38:19:06
Unknown
Like she said, like, oh, I gotta figure some things out. So my husband like was getting fear and then like from the beginning to with the situation, and she told him that she was on his way. Then the student midwife showed up first. Hannah shows up first. She shows up when gunner is already coming out. He's like a foot out, like a leg out.
00:38:19:06 - 00:38:45:21
Unknown
And she shows up and walks in and she immediately comes in and puts opens up her Doppler, which I didn't even know what a Doppler was at the time because they never used it with me. They never told me they were going to use it. If so, I would have not approved it because I didn't realize, like the Doppler are just ultrasounds, if not even more powerful.
00:38:46:02 - 00:39:14:06
Unknown
So she puts it on my body. I didn't know what it was touching me and I screamed, My God! I was like, oh, it hurt me. Like it hurt me. Her touching me. And I said, stop it. And she goes, I have to. And I cowered like, surrendered. I said, okay, because like, it was just like this fear that entered the room as soon as she entered.
00:39:14:08 - 00:39:34:18
Unknown
I could feel it energetically. It's like she just it was in there and I. And so what are the what are the laws in Maryland around medical midwives and breech. Do you know that they if they find out they have to transfer. Okay. Yeah. And if they find, they find out like that's as far as I know, I'm not sure what their laws are like.
00:39:34:18 - 00:40:00:11
Unknown
If they had found out that he was bellied down while I was still going to prenatal, I don't I believe because I had another friend in a yoga class that had told me that they would try to get him to flip. Yeah. And then but the hospital would not be able to. They would not be. I'm sorry. The midwives would not be able to take A or B in a birth with a breach baby.
00:40:00:11 - 00:40:25:08
Unknown
So he would have to go to the hospital for automatic C-section. Yeah. And if he could not flip. So. So in hindsight, it was a blessing that they did not know that he was heads down, of course. Or feet down, of course. So Hannah puts the Doppler on me. Feels awful. In the video. I can see how long she actually had it on me.
00:40:25:08 - 00:40:45:14
Unknown
I didn't think I didn't remember it being that long. And in the video I can see that that is when I start praying. It was the first time in my life I had ever legit like prayed like I had thought that I had. But this was like the for real first time that I really surrendered and I was so scared.
00:40:45:14 - 00:41:04:21
Unknown
I in the video, I was just going. Gunner safe. Gunner safe and protected. I got her safe. Got her safe from a toxic gunner. Safe gunner safe and protected. Like pleading with God basically to like, keep him safe. Because it just. I could feel there was like fear touching me of something that was like like just so like, oh, it was awful.
00:41:04:21 - 00:41:32:05
Unknown
And so she has that on for a while, and then he's coming out more and more. Nancy, the doula is at my head. She's got her arms on my back. Her role was really like, I wanted her to be there because I needed, like, a mother. Like my relationship with my mother was not great at the time, and I, like I saw her as this, like mother.
00:41:32:07 - 00:41:59:01
Unknown
And that's what I wanted her to be. And unfortunately, that's not how it ended up being like. That's all I think I could conjure at the time of her being it. But, Yeah. So he's coming out more and more. Naturally. Hannah's not touching him right now. He's coming out fine, without without anyone touching him. And then he his all the way out to his head.
00:41:59:02 - 00:42:25:11
Unknown
She starts to, like, try to flip him. I can see this in the video like he he would. His chest was like up. And then she starts to like flip, try to flip him so his back is up. And then this is awful. And like because it's this GoPro that's just facing my own, like behind me and my, my JR is like behind over here, like behind her.
00:42:25:11 - 00:43:00:07
Unknown
And she looks at him, Hannah looks at him and says very calmly but like, aggressively like all the EMTs. And he he drops the GoPro because actually he was holding it. He drops the GoPro and like, runs like that, like put him in so much fear. Later he revealed to me that when she got there, she had actually first taken him out to Hannah, had taken him out to the kitchen and said, look, we have to call the EMTs, but we're going to try to put it off as long as possible so that I like.
00:43:00:08 - 00:43:20:22
Unknown
It's weird to be like, thank you for the scraps, right? You know, like, thank you for these scraps of trying to help us in this situation, but it's still just an awful situation. Right. So, so he knew that they were going to have to call, and he was just doing all the things that he thought he was supposed to do, like, he didn't know any different.
00:43:20:23 - 00:43:44:01
Unknown
So like, biologically he was doing what he thought he was supposed super to protect me in this space. And now he sees different too of like how he was kind of like played into this whole situation as well. So she looked at him and said, call the EMTs. And he went and called. And he's like, you can hear in the video, he's like, on the phone with them.
00:43:44:03 - 00:44:06:20
Unknown
Like, yeah, we have a breach, baby. He home birth, like saying all the things he told me later that the woman on the phone had this, like, awful attitude with him. Like just another, like, stupid home birth couple again. Like, she just had this, like, super, like, of course you need help kind of attitude. And my husband doesn't deal with that very well at all.
00:44:06:22 - 00:44:34:00
Unknown
And so he's he's just like on the phone because she's telling him to keep on the phone and he's like walking out of the room, like, like saying the Hannah, the things that the woman saying to do, like, like. Yeah. And so then she Hannah as if this like 911 operator knows anything about breach breakers. You know the things he's saying are so generic.
00:44:34:00 - 00:45:05:16
Unknown
She's reading. I'm I know she's reading it from her paper like she flipped to home birth and like, okay, look, look look, look. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So then Hannah, right after she said, call the EMT. It's like, on for her. For some reason, you could tell she's, like, in emergency mode. So she takes her hands and is putting them inside me to try to get his head out and to, like, maneuvers, head out.
00:45:05:16 - 00:45:29:02
Unknown
And it hurt so bad. I was screaming. It was like. It wasn't like the normal, like, moans of birth. It was like a like that kind of scream, like the this is awful, like being cut open kind of scream because I was like, now that I know, like as soon as hands are put in you and you're feeling tense and fear like that is when you rip, you tear.
00:45:29:04 - 00:45:55:09
Unknown
It was awful. And, so she's doing that and and her tone completely changes now too. She's going push. Abby, I need you to push. I need you to push, like. Like trying to be calm, but very controlling. Assertive at the same time. And when she starts doing that, my is saying it too. Like, she's like, okay, like like she's on board now.
00:45:55:09 - 00:46:17:14
Unknown
And then J.R. comes in and he's saying it because like, everyone's like, push, Abby, push like, And it's just so much fear. So I'm now in this state of like, something's wrong. I need to push. It didn't feel good to me. It didn't feel like I wanted to, but there was some kind of emergence that I didn't know about.
00:46:17:14 - 00:46:45:20
Unknown
So I'm pushing super hard. It's my back. Feels like it's literally breaking right now. And yeah, like in hindsight, I've learned all these things and I'm like, it should just be left alone. You should just be left alone. My husband and I debrief a lot, have debriefed a lot about like when fear entered the room and what would have happened if it was just him and I.
00:46:45:21 - 00:47:02:01
Unknown
Because like before, then, like, everything was like when it was just me and then him coming in and out. It was intense for me, like the sensations, but like we were flowing, like we were flowing like. And he said, like he didn't have any fear when when we were, he was just coming in and out of the room, like checking on me and stuff.
00:47:02:01 - 00:47:28:12
Unknown
And then it was when people started showing up that it just got strange. So I do, I wonder like what the what the situation would have been like, or just who you would have been like, you didn't even get the chance to be an instinct. Yeah, yeah. And I, I am not like, kind of villainous myself, but I also am taking responsibility that that was not me.
00:47:28:13 - 00:47:55:17
Unknown
Like I had given up. That I had given up given that up, I had given up my power to others. This is exactly why people hire medical providers, you know, even though it winds up being kind of illogical and backwards because they don't actually know how to support normal birth. But this this could be perceived like this chick story might be I show up at an unexpected breach in the head, stuck.
00:47:55:17 - 00:48:15:23
Unknown
And thank God I'm there because they didn't know what to do. And I got that baby's head out like she might go home. A hero in her version of the story. I know you're not done telling it, but you know what I mean. Yeah. So interesting. Like, this is why she gets hired is for these emergencies. Yeah. Okay, so she's yanking his head out?
00:48:16:00 - 00:48:47:12
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. So she. So she's doing that. I'm in a lot of pain. He comes out and he is not breathing. I'm told by. And there's just like this, like, wave of like. Oh, that comes over the room. I'm told by Nancy to not look my Duala to not look. It's a weird thing to say, which completely puts me in a state of, like, complete fear.
00:48:47:13 - 00:49:06:01
Unknown
Like it was a weird thing to say. I forgot this, but in the video I heard myself saying, I want to hold him like. Like desperate. Like I want to hold him. Like as soon as he came out, I was like, I want to hold him. That was my natural, motherly, give me my baby. And where did he go?
00:49:06:03 - 00:49:28:04
Unknown
He was so he. So Hannah took him. Anna had him. And he's on the floor behind me. So I'm on all fours. He's behind my rear. And. And I hear my husband saying, you can't right now. Because I think Hannah had said you can't or something right now. So he's like, trying to soothe, like you can't right now.
00:49:28:06 - 00:49:51:14
Unknown
And she is. She gives him mouth to mouth. She gives him out the mouth I watched in the video. It's a total of about 5 or 5 minutes that go by while he's just on the floor, and I am silent in the video and I don't know where I went because I don't remember that time frame.
00:49:51:14 - 00:50:12:06
Unknown
It felt way quicker to me in real life, but I must have just completely left my body because it felt like, yeah, I, I was I wasn't saying anything, maybe I was, I think I was just breathing, but I was just out of it. Like, what, what mammal. Mother.
00:50:12:08 - 00:50:40:22
Unknown
Like with what animal would you ever immediately take their young and and do whatever to him like it's so it's so not instinctual. It's so not primal. You know, the whole thing. We grow up hearing that like a mother bird will reject their young if if messed with, you know, it's like, damn. And yet these people are literally trained.
00:50:40:23 - 00:51:04:09
Unknown
It's just so it's so misogynistic. It's so obstetrical. It's so everything that they don't even realize that they're in the consciousness of, you know, like how dangerous? Because it's not just about Gunnar, like what you just said. Like this. What are you supposed to do? You don't have your young. You can't even see him. It's happening out of sight.
00:51:04:09 - 00:51:27:05
Unknown
That is so, It's dark. Yeah. On the video of me watching this, I can't see any of this because J.R. had dropped the GoPro so we could. I could just hear some hear things now at this point. So I'm going to be saying, like what I remember and then what I was revealed to me after watching the video again.
00:51:27:07 - 00:51:57:05
Unknown
So it about five minutes go by. Deanna, the actual midwife finally walks in, so she walks in. The lights are still off in the bedroom. Then like immediately after she walks in, the EMT walks in, the main EMT walks in, and he immediately when he walks in the room goes, did you cut the cord? Did you cut the cord?
00:51:57:07 - 00:52:27:15
Unknown
And Hannah, I believe it's Hannah's voice goes, no, it might have been my voice. It sounded like it was Hannah's in the video. I honestly can't recollect whose voice it was. And he says, are there any lights in here? And someone turns the lights on. Super bright lights, super bright. Turns them on. At this point. Oh.
00:52:27:16 - 00:53:07:09
Unknown
So he, the EMT, keeps asking if Hannah has a bulb syringe and she's like, no, I don't. And he asked a couple times, no, I don't. He mentions to his partner, okay, go get the oxygen and the something bag, like some kind of kit. And, Hannah's still with Gunnar and, like, around this time, like, I think this is what, quote, inspired Gunnar, but he's just, like, comes to right then, like, like like it's my like, my story is like, he's like, nobody's fucking with messing with me and just like, comes to right then and.
00:53:07:11 - 00:53:28:12
Unknown
Hannah or Diane, I don't know which one hands him to me. Then like, I turn around immediately hand him to me. Gunnar or Jair walks in the room right then, because Jared was out of the room, he was like dealing with EMTs coming in the house. Like our dog was barking at them, like just all this. And Jerry.
00:53:28:16 - 00:53:32:14
Unknown
Jerry comes in the room and you can see him go.
00:53:32:16 - 00:53:59:01
Unknown
Gunnar. Because I was holding him, like, just like this huge, like, oh, my gosh, this is a shit show. And there's my son. And so gunners put to me and he starts crying a little bit, the, the assistant of the EMTs, like, you got a breathing baby. I hear him saying, like in the video, do you have a breathing child?
00:53:59:01 - 00:54:21:19
Unknown
And the EMTs like, yes. I think they take his heartbeat. Maybe they're, like, trying to do stuff, like to prove, like to prove that they did something, I guess, like they're trying to do stuff. And then at some point, I don't see this in the video, but I remember the EMT asking me or saying he didn't ask me.
00:54:21:20 - 00:54:55:07
Unknown
He said, I'd like to take the child to the ambulance, still to check him out. And I remember my stories. I remember saying, absolutely not. So like the first moments of me having him to my chest, there's men in my room, bright lights on, like, I'm like, whoa, this is crazy. Im trying to focus on him and look down at him, and he's looking up at me and the pictures, like his eyes are just so, like, bright.
00:54:55:08 - 00:55:27:11
Unknown
Like trying to see me with these bright lights. And the EMTs leave after, like, asking who the midwife is, and then they get me up eventually and into bed. I think one of the the DeAnn said to J.R., like, here, you hold him for a second. And while she showers, actually, that was probably like after they eventually cut the cord.
00:55:27:13 - 00:55:47:21
Unknown
It was all like a blur after this point because it was just so weird. In the video, there's the videos on of me being in bed, and I'm just like, it was like it was like this, like sports game that just happened, right? Like that was the mentality. It was like this like sports game that we had like one or something.
00:55:47:22 - 00:56:11:11
Unknown
Like everyone's like talking about how crazy that was. Like, I'm trying to process it with the midwife and Hannah and Dan and Hannah and Nancy like, like, like you could just tell I was just so, like, trying to make sense of it all and, like, make myself feel better about it all. And at one point I say, did I tear?
00:56:11:13 - 00:56:39:18
Unknown
Because I feel really I feel really like a lot of, like, stinging down there. And Hannah looks at me and she's like, yeah, you probably did. It was probably, honestly, because of what I was doing. And I, and I like said something like, okay, it's not that big of a deal. Like I saw myself in the video saying that, like, just like trying to downplay it all, like I was already trying to, like, make sense of it in my brain and make it seem like everything was great.
00:56:39:20 - 00:57:00:21
Unknown
Right. Like you like, would fantasize that you'd be like, you bitch. Yeah, but I wasn't there. I was trying to make it so my brain had to. It had to make it happy so I could be having, like, my moments. And, I mean, it really gives you compassion for the reframe in the hospital, right? You know, I mean, it's it's not dissimilar.
00:57:01:03 - 00:57:26:19
Unknown
So after that, after the birth, like, I was super in gratitude mode, I was like, I remember doing like a Facebook post of like, thank you to the midwives and all these people might do all these people that helped it. I can see, like how I made them all heroes and that I definitely like gave up my power purposely, like I needed someone else to save me.
00:57:26:19 - 00:57:44:13
Unknown
And that's that. They took that role in that, in that in birth. I never told her that they could touch me. I never had cervical checks during my prenatal. I never we never talked about what birth would be like. And there was a possibility that they would put their hands on me, because if they had asked me, I would have said no.
00:57:44:15 - 00:58:04:21
Unknown
So I think it was just assumed that they were allowed to do that. I never like yeah, it's called implied consent. Medical providers, you know, live under this concept of implied consent that by hiring my services, it is implied that you can send to the things I want to do or that I will do. It's really crazy. Yeah.
00:58:04:22 - 00:58:29:07
Unknown
So like with that and like the Doppler, like, had I known, I would have said no. But I think that I was meant to I had to have that experience because I grew up a lot with that experience and I didn't. It wasn't until the pregnancy of my second son who were going to move into his story, that I actually was able to start digesting that and breaking that down.
00:58:29:07 - 00:58:50:17
Unknown
I had been living for the for the next two years in like, oh yeah, I had a home birth. It was great. I had midwives, but it actually wasn't until I was pregnant with Grayson, my second born son, that I started feeling like, wait a minute, something doesn't feel right about that. Yeah. So I guess I can move into that now.
00:58:50:18 - 00:59:19:02
Unknown
Oh, well, let's end with Gunnar. Everything was fine. He. He breathed. It was great. He was it was really fast birth. And I feel like there's a few things that I notice about him from that birth. He doesn't like being told to do things. I mean, a lot of kids don't. But he was told to breathe. He couldn't breathe on his own.
00:59:19:02 - 00:59:40:18
Unknown
He was told to breathe. And I just think that's really interesting. And he wants me to come to him very fast, like, if, like, he'll call for me. And if I'm not fast enough, like, he'll get very upset. And I just think that's a direct correlation of he wanted me just as much as I wanted him. And that was five moments.
00:59:40:18 - 01:00:05:13
Unknown
And I know that that's part of the story and that that lets me soothe him more when I'm not coming fast enough for him and just hanging out with compassion. So Gunnar is about two and a half when I hear another voice that I'm meant to have another baby. We're in Mexico. I'm in the ocean of Mexico at the time, and that's when I start hearing these voices.
01:00:05:15 - 01:00:36:14
Unknown
I talked to J.R. about it, and he's in, and we again get we are able to conceive within like two months of that happening. So during this pregnancy, I'm slowing down a lot. I'm starting to feel these feelings of like dissecting the first my first birth, and I start thinking again, okay, I kind of want to just hire like a photographer to be there.
01:00:36:16 - 01:00:57:16
Unknown
I already like, I knew I didn't want a midwife, I definitely didn't want a midwife. But my husband was asking me about it. He was, he was. J.R. was asking me like, so are we hiring a midwife? And why didn't you want a midwife? I didn't want anyone there to tell me what to do. I wanted to be I really much just wanted to be alone.
01:00:57:17 - 01:01:25:00
Unknown
Like I had come to this understanding that, like, I would change myself in front of somebody else, right? Someone else was there. I would change. And you. I'm guessing you didn't then carry a story that this student midwife saved. Gunnar. Yeah, I did not. Yeah, yeah, I, I had realized that that that that was what she was there for.
01:01:25:00 - 01:01:51:09
Unknown
Her thinking that she was doing right for sure. But I still kind of wanted. I honestly just wanted a photographer there. I wanted a photographer there, there to take pictures. And I found this one photographer who called herself a birth keeper. But she I think she was just using that term. I don't think she actually went through any training other than doula training, because she was also she also on her website was like a doula.
01:01:51:09 - 01:02:19:16
Unknown
And I mean, it's a pretty open source term. It's like calling yourself a coach. Anyone can. There's no regulations to it. Yeah, yeah. So I contacted her because I like. And the story I was telling my husband was like, yeah, I've had this photographer there and like, she knows stuff. Like if I needed help, like she knows stuff like it was like him and I at this point were like kind of a lot really disconnected because I was blaming him honestly for a lot about that birth.
01:02:19:16 - 01:02:40:22
Unknown
I was feeling a lot of resentment towards him for not being able to protect me. And now I see that that was a story I created, and he was actually doing everything that he knew. He thought he was supposed to be doing. Well, that's that's very common, you know, and obviously I coach women in processing their birth and this comes up a lot.
01:02:40:23 - 01:03:15:06
Unknown
And what's complicated about it is, yes, it's just more complicated than just he was doing what he knew to do. It's also that that you both together chose an outside authority, which puts him in a subordination role. Right. So it's not the natural role of the protector to be subordinate in the way that is expected when you have a medical provider there, because the medical providers actually now the protector, right, in this kind of confusing way.
01:03:15:06 - 01:03:48:00
Unknown
And so it's very I mean, it's really a masculine actually, I think in many ways, and it's a complicated conversation, but a lot of women that I debrief with share the deep resentment and abandonment and betrayal that they feel after the partner has, with perhaps the best of intentions, participated in the exact dynamic that the couple set up.
01:03:48:02 - 01:04:13:00
Unknown
But it's also completely valid because they are a part of what turns out to be sabotage. It's so complicated. I mean, it's also not like it's also kind of fairly straightforward once you have your head wrapped around it. But I know a lot of women will resonate with that and it and if you aren't connected to it and honest about it and processing it, man, it just festers and it really can.
01:04:13:01 - 01:04:40:11
Unknown
I mean, I've seen it ruin marriages. Yeah. And it was best during with us for for sure I the big resentment I had was about him calling the EMT. Sure. Yeah. And so during the pregnancy with Grayson, he was asking me about a midwife, and he wanted a backup plan. And so I was giving him a story. Of what?
01:04:40:13 - 01:05:15:00
Unknown
That there would be somebody there. At this point, I had purchased The Complete Guide to Free Birth, and I was going through that, because, like, I knew that I, I wasn't like claiming that I wanted free birth yet, but I would just knew that I didn't want anyone really there. So I was like, trying to to like, do the pregnancy at the same time, like, like I felt like I was easing my husband's fears and and that was that didn't feel good to me.
01:05:15:04 - 01:05:42:19
Unknown
I was, I was trying I was trying to ignore his fears, basically like to me it was absurd that he had fear. And like, my thought was like, I shouldn't have to soothe you. And now I understand that it's okay to have fear. And I can see that his fear also was like a reflection of me still not, or me still having fear.
01:05:42:20 - 01:06:12:02
Unknown
Like I was not able to see that then. And like at some point he mentioned like, well, what if we just have like an ambulance at the end of the driveway? That set me off? Oh shit. So much, because that's my trauma. That's the trauma, right? It's also like, so rude. Yeah, yeah. And, and and he didn't understand that if I had a backup plan, I would take it, like, not.
01:06:12:03 - 01:06:34:04
Unknown
Not like I just knew myself. And I knew that I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to. I didn't want to have the out because I could very easily go into a victim mode. And also everyone has a backup plan. Everyone's backup plan who free birth or home birth is the hospital like? Yeah, it's implied. Like we all know where we're going.
01:06:34:05 - 01:06:59:23
Unknown
If it doesn't work out for us. Yeah. And yeah. And I but so I was very much in trying to avoid those big conversations. I was very angry for my husband having fear and also in denial of my own fear. So I was going through the the free society stuff. I went to your retreat. So that was in September.
01:06:59:23 - 01:07:25:14
Unknown
I was five months pregnant. That retreat really, really opened me up and like, solidified in my mind that I absolutely was going to have a free birth. And when I came back from that retreat, I felt very changed in many ways. I felt very connected to other women I like. That was just such prenatal care that I wanted and needed.
01:07:25:16 - 01:07:51:05
Unknown
I it's funny, because I moved to North Carolina after having Gunnar and you had moved to North Carolina, so I found you on Instagram and it was like, oh, she moved to North Carolina, too. And then I saw that you were having that retreat. So I just thought that was very interesting. And I called the photographer and told her I decided to go a different way.
01:07:51:05 - 01:08:08:19
Unknown
And I don't want anyone there because I had just come to this conclusion that I didn't want anyone there. Even if I had a photographer, I wouldn't be able to let go. I wasn't going to be able to surrender to it. So I we get to like December. And are you just having a wild pregnancy this whole time?
01:08:08:20 - 01:08:29:01
Unknown
Having a wild pregnancy? Yep. Total wild pregnancy. Actually. After I got back from the treat, I ended up going on a I sitting with some medicine with Iya. And because it was, it was. I had come to this conclusion. I had thought that like this was not something I should be doing when I was pregnant. I got like a sign that I should do it.
01:08:29:01 - 01:08:54:17
Unknown
I sat with medicine. It helped me process a lot of things. It helped me like work through a process of what birth could kind of look like. As far as me surrendering, which is very impactful for me. Then my husband and I in November did the same thing together because I had done it as a private session. I didn't want to be around other people, and then him and I did it together, just him and I, and he was able to have this big opening in that.
01:08:54:17 - 01:09:22:22
Unknown
And like while we were journaling together, he, like, came to me and was crying and looked at me and said, I understand why you've been doing all of this. I'm sorry for all that that I've been putting you through, and I'm going to support you. And like, it was huge. That's awesome. Yeah. So like everything after that, every like, everything was like given up on his part with that.
01:09:22:22 - 01:09:50:23
Unknown
Like, he, like, we didn't talk much about the birth, like birth plans or anything after that. But he wasn't like he wasn't like he was being supportive as he could basically. You know, there's no like, worrying, like, we gotta have a plan and what are we going, this is going to happen. I had a friend who I reached out to because I knew I was going to need some support, like leading up to birth and afterwards.
01:09:50:23 - 01:10:11:03
Unknown
Her name is Megan. Amazing woman. She needed a temporary place to live. So I brought her into my house, would pay for her food and a little bit of, like, pocket change. And she would help me with my son in, like, that month leading up to burst. So I could, like, have some more space. So like, prepare to rest like and be like getting things.
01:10:11:03 - 01:10:34:04
Unknown
She like prepped a lot of food for me. And then February comes and my husband has this big race every February for like, two weeks. And he goes to it. It's a really big deal to him. And I kind of just let go and trust that baby's either going to come all he's gone or will wait till he comes back.
01:10:34:05 - 01:10:59:18
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So he comes. How pregnant are you when he's gone? 40 weeks, 39 weeks, 39 weeks, maybe 39. Dang. Yeah. I like really didn't track much too during this period. I think I was 39 because I remember being I think I had him at 40 in a day. So like, you were fine with birthing without him.
01:10:59:20 - 01:11:24:16
Unknown
I kind of just surrendered that what was meant to happen would happen. And Megan was living there. Yeah. Yeah. And and I also now know that I didn't want him there during birth. Oh. But I wanted him to be there, and there was nothing I could do. Like he was going to go. He was going to go to this race.
01:11:24:16 - 01:11:53:19
Unknown
And he, like, very much trusted that everything would be fine, too. So he went, it's like a big race. It's part of like his contracts and stuff. So he went and then, I it was a Sunday, I believe he got home. And then Monday, ten hours after he got home. It was. Yeah, it was a Monday and it I think 12:00 we had a community call.
01:11:53:19 - 01:12:16:14
Unknown
I had a community call with you for the lighthouse. And which I think it was just free for society then. I don't think it was a lighthouse then. And like, I started, I like, wanted to speak during it and I said, just wanted to let everyone know that based on the way I'm feeling, I believe I'm probably going to have a baby today.
01:12:16:14 - 01:12:37:13
Unknown
And like, literally after I got off the call, I started feeling more of those intense than the same sensations I had had in my first pregnancy. And I went and made myself some food real quick in the kitchen because I was like, I need to eat some lunch. So I made myself some food. I came in to our bedroom and I had to, like, just sit on the floor.
01:12:37:13 - 01:12:58:07
Unknown
So I sat down on the floor to eat it. I told J.R., like, I think this is happening. Can you take Gunnar? I let Megan know was happening. She was in her house at the time, and Gunnar and J.R. went to go lay down for a nap. Megan was just, like, doing stuff in the kitchen, and I ate my lunch.
01:12:58:07 - 01:13:15:18
Unknown
And then it's just started. The sensation started getting more and more intense. I started filling up the bathtub at our house in North Carolina. I got into the bathtub and just was like, moving around, just trying to find like a little bit of relief. And then at some point I, like had to get back out. I like was like, oh, I need to get out.
01:13:15:18 - 01:13:34:21
Unknown
So I got back out, which is what I think my body's way, honestly, of being like, this is not working for me right now. I feel like this might stop what's happening. And I got back out and I, like, was back on the floor on my yoga ball again, I think, just, like moving around on it, on my hips or my chest.
01:13:34:21 - 01:14:03:22
Unknown
And then this is like 3:00. So that had been like two hours or so. And then I wanted to get back in the tub because it started getting more intense. I text J.R., this is definitely happening. I'm good. I text Megan, this is definitely happening. Can you bring me some labor lemonade? Which is like this thing and recipe for lemonade in the 40 days.
01:14:04:04 - 01:14:30:09
Unknown
The first 40 days book. Really good recipe. She bought it for me and then said to me and I said, no, I'm good. And she was like, all right. And she left. She got hit like I was good. Leave me alone, basically. And, yeah. So I'm just in the tub moving my hips around. I have this like playlist of, like, literally like a thousand songs that I started creating since all my journeys like, like journey music, basically.
01:14:30:09 - 01:14:50:21
Unknown
I was just like, put that on random. I had a GoPro set up and I forgot to fresh start, which is think was meant to be like, I really, really intended the universe. Like I don't want anyone to see. So it's like no one's going to see. So I'm moving my hips around. It's I'm feeling a little bummed in a way, because I'm feeling pain.
01:14:50:21 - 01:15:21:00
Unknown
And I was just like, so like, I'm going to have a mic birth. I'm going to. And in hindsight, yeah, yeah, I know, you know, it's like you're like, I'm gonna have it. Well, I've never thought I was gonna have one, okay? I've known way too many women to say they're going to have one. Yeah. Now, since in the last three years, since my son's been born, I've been doing so much more work about surrender and, like, sexual work, and I get it.
01:15:21:01 - 01:15:38:14
Unknown
Of why then I wasn't able to because I had not done that work beforehand. All right, let's do three. Let's do number three and see what's up. I'm ready for that. We're guys. I'm you know, you will make millions of dollars if you crack a code there. You can teach it to women. Yeah. Okay. So you're feeling some pain.
01:15:38:14 - 01:16:00:06
Unknown
You're in the tub. Yeah. And then it starts to get super intense all of a sudden, like, like like it's obviously transition. It's transitions. Hit me. It's the whole, like, I can't do this feeling, but I can't do it feeling. But in goodness, I'm alone. There's nobody to save me. I set myself up perfectly where no one can save me.
01:16:00:07 - 01:16:19:20
Unknown
So I start praying. I start praying to mother Mary was like. Like who came through right then. At that moment I was like, help me, mother, help me mother, help me mother, help me mother! Maybe ten times of saying that all of a sudden, I put my leg up because I could feel like big movement. I put my leg up.
01:16:19:20 - 01:16:42:20
Unknown
So I'm in, like a lunge position, like hanging over the tub and head start his headsets coming out. Yeah. And this is like 415 ish at the time. So had a call eight lunch at 1230. This is for 15. Yeah. I've had starts coming out and like, it was the most amazing feeling to feel his head coming out.
01:16:42:21 - 01:17:07:01
Unknown
No one's there in the water. His head's all the way out now. I take a deep breath and there's, like, no rush. Like I'm not doing anything. I'm not pushing. Like it's just happening. Like a deep breath. And then the rest of him just like, floats out. Just like comes out and he's in the water. I'm like, oh my goodness.
01:17:07:03 - 01:17:35:11
Unknown
And I take another deep breath and there's like no emergence like of me having to do anything. And I just like, lift him up slowly. I'm like, whoa, you know, I'm just like, so out of it right now, like out of it, but in it. And I'm like, that's my baby. And I had thought this whole time that he was a girl because I just felt this feminine energy throughout my pregnancy.
01:17:35:13 - 01:17:55:09
Unknown
But maybe maybe it was yours. Yeah. I was literally about to say that. And you read it. It was mine. And it was the little girl I felt was my inner child that I was mothering. It was my inner child. So, yeah. So it was a boy, and I didn't have a name for a boy. So he was just my boy.
01:17:55:11 - 01:18:18:12
Unknown
And I looked at him and I held him to me. I did have my phone close by, so I thought to take a selfie really quick, and then I put it down and. And then I was just staring at him like, whoa. And probably about 15 minutes go by. And then my husband walks in the bed, the bathroom, and he's just like, oh wow.
01:18:18:14 - 01:18:37:23
Unknown
Oh my god, blown away. Meghan had woken him up like I had never told him to, but like, she like, had the intuition. Like she should probably wake him up, which was divine. She woke him up and said, he's he's birthing right now. And he comes in, Gunnar still asleep, and he's just like, amazed, like twinkles in his eyes.
01:18:38:03 - 01:18:56:14
Unknown
And then we're just like, sitting here, like talking of, like a maze. And he helps me out of the tub because I say, I want to get out of the tub. And we're just like, talking about, I don't even know, just like, incredible things. And then I said, I think or no, he reminds me about the placenta. And I said, yeah, I think I'm ready.
01:18:56:15 - 01:19:17:15
Unknown
So he gets a bowl and I just like squat over it and it just comes out like super easy. And him seeing that, he looks at me and says credible because that was like the closest thing he's ever had to natural birth at. Like the physiological birth was seeing that placenta be born. Just see how easy it was.
01:19:17:16 - 01:19:38:04
Unknown
Yeah. So he helps me up. We get he takes me to bed. At this point, Gunnar comes in, I end up doing a lotus birth. I had stuff ready to burn the cord just in case. I was like, yeah, this isn't for me. But I stuck through it, and it actually didn't seem to awful for me to carry.
01:19:38:05 - 01:19:59:04
Unknown
Like every time I go pee, I would just carry the bowl and baby and just sit down the potty and come back. Cord came off naturally after three days. And the postpartum was just so different. Like not having to talk to people and debrief about a bunch of stuff. I stayed in my bedroom for three weeks. I think during the third week.
01:19:59:04 - 01:20:20:03
Unknown
I got up at one point and went out in the kitchen when no one was home just to like, be alone in my kitchen. I had Cat, you know, come give me Reiki. Every few days Tara would come giving massages in bed. Yeah, that's a good crew to have in. Yeah, they were my two. They like they were the only two they would come besides Megan.
01:20:20:05 - 01:20:39:05
Unknown
Megan would bring me food. J.R. and Megan would bring me food because Tara is just, like, permanently on ecstasy of life. So just like having that in your. That's like a perfect combination. And they just so understood that, like, I wasn't ready to debrief. Like they knew I didn't want to talk, like I just wanted to be loved.
01:20:39:05 - 01:20:59:06
Unknown
And they loved me. And it was amazing. Yeah. And it was beautiful. It was amazing. I wasn't ready to admit to myself, because there was part of me that felt bad that I didn't want my husband there. Like, I had this feeling like you're supposed to have him there, and him and I have debriefed about that. Then it just felt natural to me to want to be alone.
01:20:59:06 - 01:21:07:08
Unknown
And he really gets it. Yeah. And and I think. Grayson.
01:21:07:10 - 01:21:37:22
Unknown
So sweet. Yeah. I think it's very natural and normal. And I think a lot of women don't choose that out of a confused obligation, a sense of obligation and a males entitlement to the birth space. You know, I know many women who have secretly admitted they would like to be alone and they won't or don't think they can.
01:21:38:00 - 01:21:59:04
Unknown
Yeah. And my husband and I have talked about it too, about how, like, men have been put in this weird place of having to like, like equalize, like the men's responsibility as far as, like, feeding the baby and being part of the birth experience. So it's very for men. Whereas like, like he actually did his role in that part two.
01:21:59:05 - 01:22:16:08
Unknown
He protected me from my child and napped with him the whole time, which was like divine that like. And I had never planned for it. I was I was like, okay, so you're going to take a nap with Gunnar, right? Of course not. And it just worked out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was beautiful. It was perfect.
01:22:16:09 - 01:22:44:04
Unknown
I knew I could not have anyone around. It's. It's interesting. Like what I would want now. Especially with, like, learning about a sovereign witness, a woman who I really trusted and I loved. And she loved me. If I'd want her in that space to be that sister for me, because I, I didn't have that for sure. Or I didn't feel like I had that, with Grayson's birth, and I think I wasn't supposed to.
01:22:44:05 - 01:23:06:03
Unknown
I was just supposed to have that alone. Just to know what that felt like. And to really, really just connect to spirit. And now from that, I learn, I step into the next level of, of like, me stepping into birth work and wanting to be a sisterly support for other women, because that's not what I had and I didn't know possible.
01:23:06:03 - 01:23:51:07
Unknown
And and yeah, I just feel like it's all really divine of how I experienced all this. To come back to me, stepping into a potential role of something that I never knew was capable and existed. And I can gift that to other women who want that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you have the lived experience of what was almost a perfectly normal, undisturbed birth and then is sabotaged right at the end in your own home into the power of birthing alone, which is really good to know as a birth worker, because it can really help keep you out of hero, you know, like, it gives you a lot of spaciousness, that that's your lived experience to
01:23:51:08 - 01:24:14:14
Unknown
then support other women to be alone and that that's like totally fine and not something you have to be afraid of. A lot of birth attendants will never leave a woman alone, just like a little infantilizing. Well, that would be my goal. My goal would be that a woman was so resource and physiological birth that she would maybe want me there, but know that if I couldn't show up, she would be able to birth her baby, you know?
01:24:14:15 - 01:24:47:23
Unknown
So, yeah, that's a very good point about that, that I needed to have gone through that experience to, to know, like, what other women are capable of because I lived it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so cool. You know, it's so cool to process our own birth experiences and get for better or worse, you know, get the, the wisdom out of it and the lessons and then integrate them to such a, a true level that they can really be, I mean, we're the sum total of our experiences, right?
01:24:48:00 - 01:25:09:14
Unknown
But most people are the sum total of their experiences in a totally unprocessed, integrated way, which is like, not that impressive. And then, you know, the people who are really integrated, it's just like those those are the people you want to be around. Those are the those are the potentially like really epic midwives. You know, a lot of women get worried about, oh, I had a traumatic birth or I haven't had a free birth.
01:25:09:14 - 01:25:30:09
Unknown
Could I possibly attend? And you know, that's really what it's about. Like how integrated are you, how processed are you? And have you have you gleaned the gifts and the wisdom from what you've gone through so that you can order it from your unique lens? It's not about you have to free birth in order to support birth. That's that's unreasonable.
01:25:30:09 - 01:26:06:17
Unknown
That's not necessary at all. You just reminded me of one really, really great point that I wanted to mention of that. I mentioned that before my first birth. I could not handle hearing negative birth stories. I couldn't at all. And then I had to. I ended up going through something, having a process that find a lot of compassion for myself, and then started listening to the podcast again and listening to all the women's stories obsessively, compulsively listening over and over and then going through MMI and.
01:26:06:19 - 01:26:25:18
Unknown
Going through like, lots of births and things that happen. And like, now I just want to hear them all. So like, I'm very interested in, like debriefing women in their stories because I can like, take it now. I can handle like I've grown up so much as a woman. Whereas before I was such a child where I could not handle fear, I couldn't handle it.
01:26:25:21 - 01:26:56:08
Unknown
I thought it was going to manifest in my life. And now I see that that's not the case. Like, I can I can have compassion, hold space for other women without believing that it's going to happen to me if I do. Yeah, the image I get is like, you were uncontained and now you're embodied. And those are very when you're when you're open and you're not sure like where you begin and where everyone else ends and your people pleasing and your heroine and you know, all the stuff that we're all groomed to be until until we figure out how to get out of that, you know?
01:26:56:09 - 01:27:20:11
Unknown
But now you're embodied and your life, you know, reflects that. And so it's a completely different state in which to hear other women's stories. I mean, people all the time say to me, like, even pregnant, you do birth trauma debriefs like, whoa, it's like, that's not my story. Like, yeah, I can it's okay with me to be pregnant and cry with another woman about what she's been through.
01:27:20:12 - 01:27:43:04
Unknown
That doesn't that doesn't do anything negative to me. Like I'm. Yeah, it's interesting. And I'm all for women protecting themselves as they need in pregnancy. Of course. Like I have no judgment about that if if that. I know plenty of women who are not available for this kind of work when they're pregnant. That's fine. I don't resonate with that.
01:27:43:04 - 01:28:01:07
Unknown
Personally. I don't, you know, but I also feel like I have a very clear understanding of what is mine, what isn't, and also how to feel what I'm feeling and like it's fine. It's fine to be devastated and gutted and sick over someone's feelings, over someone's story. And then I leave my office and go back to my family, you know?
01:28:01:08 - 01:28:20:23
Unknown
Yeah, it takes practice for sure. Yeah. I'm thrilled for you. I think you have so much to so much to offer to your community. And, yeah, I really love you being in the matcha birth midwifery program with us. Yeah, I love it too. It's been epic. And there's a lot more to go this year and I'm super excited for it.
01:28:21:02 - 01:28:31:15
Unknown
Yeah. All right, I love you, I love you. Thank you to see you soon.
01:28:31:17 - 01:28:57:03
Unknown
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of sovereign birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories.
01:28:57:03 - 01:29:29:13
Unknown
And you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at Freiburg Society, Freiburg City on Instagram and opt in to my newsletter. Below we offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in-person retreats and of course, our annual women's gathering, the Matriarch Rising Festival.
01:29:29:14 - 01:29:54:18
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership, the Lighthouse is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.
01:29:54:18 - 01:30:30:09
Unknown
I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba. Read I honor you for the wisdom you have. The ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored eons upon light. Themes of survival withstanding the eradication of our power by design.
01:30:30:11 - 01:30:56:18
Unknown
I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and dragging our babes strap down in a clinical white beard, drying up the milk from our breasts. Keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons.
01:30:56:18 - 01:31:22:22
Unknown
All your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention, death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the stars. Just conception consciousness. While the women she still lives inside.
01:31:22:23 - 01:31:29:20
Unknown
Wild woman from you I will not hide.
01:31:29:22 - 01:31:44:18
Unknown
They could not burn your spirits away. So please teach me your way. I'm ready to learn from you. Why?
01:31:44:20 - 01:31:52:04
Unknown
I still run, run, run, run, run with the wolves when it's time.
01:31:52:05 - 01:31:59:14
Unknown
I still run, run, run, run. We were all once wild.
01:31:59:16 - 01:32:06:22
Unknown
I still run, run, run with the wolves when it's time.
01:32:07:00 - 01:32:12:09
Unknown
We all came from while the woman.
