Speaker 0
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Speaker 1
Into the wild, I'm going. Into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom challenge since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I hid. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 2
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. It's been
Speaker 1
a wild freedom change since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 0
Matric Rising Festival, our annual summer solstice women's gathering, is here on my gorgeous land in the Blue Ridge Mountains, and it is the place to connect with me and the free birthing women and sovereign midwives of this epic birth liberation movement. I teach classes and host an intimate meet and greet the very first night of the festival, and you will even catch me DJing. Yes. I am matriarch one. You'll get to meet all of our Freebird Society luminaries, our wise women teachers, who you know from your favorite FBS courses. You'll meet the very women I interview on this podcast. This is the place for wild women and moms to meet up, connect, and forge friendships that can last a lifetime. It's truly the climax of everything we do, and MRF is so close to my heart. We're scaling back MRF twenty five to be the most intimate yet, capping it at only a hundred and fifty tickets because this year, I wanna go deep. I just love the experience of getting to know each and every one of you by the end of the festival. For a long time, I held the vision of creating a women's gathering where true sisterhood could be woven, and matriarch rising is the manifestation of my dreams. I'm so glad I get to share it with all of you, and I want you there this year. Come learn directly from me and surround yourself with powerful women from all ages, all walks of life, and from all over the world. Make sure you sign up for our mailing list so that you can be the first to know when we roll out all of our insider insights of this summer's festival. I'll see you soon. Every now and then, a product comes along that our entire family can't get enough of, and lately, it's masa chips. Delicious chips made the way food was meant to be. Just three simple ingredients, organic corn, salt, and beef tallow. No seed oils, no fillers, no ultra processed garbage, just real whole food that nourishes rather than depletes. What we put into our bodies matters. It affects our energy, our mood, our resilience, and yet the food industry today is completely disconnected from what's real and nourishing. Just like birth, food is one of the most powerful ways to claim sovereignty over our bodies. And it's no surprise that a sovereign birthing family is who makes these chips. When you snack, snack on something real. Go to masa chips dot com slash discount slash free birth society, and use code free birth society for twenty percent off your first order. Rosie. Emilee. Hi. We're doing it.
Speaker 3
We're here. We're doing it. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1
So how many Matrix Risings have you gone to?
Speaker 3
So far, two.
Speaker 0
Okay. The last two? The last two. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. You're like a a star in all of our photos.
Speaker 3
It's been so fun to look back on them. Yeah. It's really fun.
Speaker 0
Obviously how I met you. And I think you've been you spent some time in the lighthouse. Yes. Right? And been been around the community, and I hope that you're gonna come back this summer so that I can
Speaker 3
Absolutely.
Speaker 0
See you again. So we're gonna get into your three beautiful stories. Just take us to the beginning. I know you have a nine year old, so you're pregnant ten years ago. Is if that's assuming that was your first pregnancy, who are you ten years ago as you enter motherhood? And and just tell us about that first experience.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I think, actually, I'm gonna start a little before that, quite a bit before. I at quitting high school, actually. I quit high school at sixteen, sophomore year. And you too?
Speaker 0
Love that.
Speaker 3
And, so that was my first kind of experience of me really evaluating this this system and realizing that it really wasn't for me. And I was starting to become miserable in there and just felt like I was wasting my precious lifetime away. And so I chose to quit, and my parents, offered to well, basically, in order for them to fully support my decision to leave, they offered to send me on an exchange program to Brazil for my senior year of high school. And so, I decided to go. And in between quitting and then leaving for my trip, I had a year of unschooling myself.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And so within that process, I it was a ton of unlearning and of systems and beliefs that I had formed about life and myself and and everything. And, I really started to come back to my own, like, essence, essentially, and it prepared me for the trip. It was a big leap for me to leave my family and and move abroad, and I didn't know the language either. And so off I go on this experience, and it is amazing. And all of these incredible things happen for me while I'm there, both good and bad. And, while I was there, a neighbor was pregnant and planning a home birth. I was so intrigued by her and her pregnancy, and I had so many questions for her. But with this language barrier, I was just kind of left to wonder about them. And so I would, like, lay in my bed and just wonder about her and everything. The things that would come up in my mind is, like, what does it feel like to be awaiting, like, anticipating this huge event of birth before it's happening? And, like, what does it feel like for her to be leaving maidenhood and stepping into mother? Does she realize that's even happening? If so, like, how is she okay with that? You know? Just all of these things were swirling. And this is when I started to realize how transformative birth could be for us because I was really looking into it and questioning all of the things. And so she has the baby. I'm, like, filled with celebration. I'm so excited about it, and that is a big seed planted in me. I leave Brazil. I come back home.
Speaker 0
Wait. Quick question. Do you know if she has a c section?
Speaker 3
She has a home birth
Speaker 0
with So that's unusual.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. She decides to have a home birth, and we ate at their house one night. And she was just big and beautiful and, just in awe of her and everything about her. And, yeah, when when I discovered that she had had the baby and it was beautiful, I was just very excited. And I could tell that, like, this amount of excitement was really just planting seeds in my heart of, like, a bigger picture outside of her kind of. And yeah. So that was that was really a really beautiful experience. And when I left Brazil and I come back home to Kentucky, my brother, contacts me. He invites me to come support his wife of the birth of their first together. And so they want me to come and move to Florida, live with them, and be there for the end of her pregnancy and be at the birth and then help them postpartum. So I'm, like, so excited, and this feels like a really big pillar in my path. And a week into moving here so now I'm about eighteen. I'm fresh from that whole experience abroad, and I meet my husband, Peter, here, within a week. He's Woah. Yeah. He's a mutual friend of my sister-in-law and my brother. And so we quickly fall in love, actually. It starts off as a friendship, but we can both feel that more things are happening. And, so, anyway, we I am there for the birth. It's an incredible experience. It's the birth
Speaker 0
home birth?
Speaker 3
It's a home birth with a midwife. And, yeah, she my niece is born, and they choose to name her after me. It was, like, the most amazing experience. Yeah. And my sister-in-law, it comes from a big Greek family, and she had everyone there at the birth. And it was just incredible. Like, forty people were there, and she wanted it
Speaker 0
this month.
Speaker 3
Yes. It was so nuts. And and I just remember the women and my brother and the midwife were inside surrounding the birthing pool and just witnessing her, And all of the men were outside, like, celebrating and smoking cigars, and it was just something that was so unfamiliar to me and something that I knew maybe I wouldn't prefer for myself. But it was really cool to see her choose this and for it to, like, come to fruition. And she felt very supported. I could tell. And, yeah, my nurse my niece was born. I see the whole thing. I go I leave that moment just feeling like birth is going to play such a big role in my life. And so sometime after that, I choose to attend a assistant midwife workshop at the farm in Tennessee with. And, it was like a week long experience, and I left that feeling really informed. And, I really enjoyed the experience actually at the time. But, ultimately, after I start to believe this story that I'm not going to be financially stable in the realm of birth if I go the route of just midwife. And so this leads me to applying and getting accepted into a nursing program. So my whole done. My my whole path kind of shifts. I was on birth, but now my goal is to become a certified nurse midwife, a CNM. And so in Florida, that's, like, doctorate level. It's a lot of schooling. And, my husband also is in the program with me, but he's going in a different field of medicine. And so within this program, yeah, I then find out that I'm pregnant with my daughter, Sophie. So
Speaker 0
And how old are you at this point?
Speaker 3
I'm twenty seven. So there was some period of
Speaker 0
time time. Okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Of us traveling and me working at cool little coffee shops and just, like, essentially wasting my time a bit. And then, join school, this program, a little bit later than most. And, yeah, I'm so I I find out I'm pregnant. And to back up a little bit before this, we, my husband and I, we started to question why we were waiting to have a kid. You know, I was now twenty seven years old and really feeling like I wanted to, but we were so wrapped up in this plan of school. And we started to notice that a lot of it was a lot of the reasons for not welcoming in a baby were, like, chronological events. Like, we need to be married and successful before we do this. And then we just this was a big part of our conversation for this period of time, and we eventually just threw it out. And we're like, you know what? No. Like, let's just do this. We've been together now for nine years at this point, and, we know that we love each other, and and let's just do it. So right away, first time, I become pregnant. And I'm so excited about it. I'm also in the program. And so I'm very sick in the beginning of my pregnancy, and I'm just juggling the workload of the school. I'm being so nauseous. It was intense. And at this point, I've already decided that I'm going to be using the same birthing clinic and midwives that my sister-in-law used at the birth that I attended. And so I start going to my prenatal visits there. And there were certain things that I I liked about it in comparison to what I was seeing in my clinical rotations. You know? I liked that they had homey couches and that the midwives weren't wearing scrubs, and there was, like, Montessori style toys for kids to play within the lobby. You know? Things like this. But what I didn't enjoy was the disruption in our routine and, like, this lingering, anxiety that would follow us in our life after we would leave every appointment.
Speaker 0
What What do you mean disruption in your routine?
Speaker 3
It just felt like a really big pain to go to the appointment. Like, we always had to adjust our schedules, and it was like
Speaker 0
And you didn't enjoy them?
Speaker 3
No. Yeah. And we would leave feeling just kind of like, oh my gosh. Wow. That was
Speaker 4
that
Speaker 3
was kinda stressful. I didn't love
Speaker 0
Even with Montessori toys and couches and women in normal clothes? I know. Like, this is the the wolves in sheep's clothing. You know? Exactly.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I also don't love just the routine monitoring of my weight and my glucose levels and things like that, but I know that I don't wanna birth in the hospital. And so I also start to have this sort of people pleasing
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Way about me, and I start to, like, withhold truth and information about my experience.
Speaker 0
Sure. Of course.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I remembered I didn't tell them that I was experiencing that extreme nausea, and I didn't tell them about the leg cramps that were, like, care with me.
Speaker 0
And But that's not really people pleasing. That's more like that's more like intelligently adaptive to understanding you're at the bottom of this totem pole, and, really, you're manipulating who you've hired, you know, because you have some grasp of understanding of of the risk.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 0
I don't know if that's people pleasing.
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 0
You know? It it's more I mean, it's I I don't know if it's smart because, like, is it smart to engage in a in a provider you have to lie to? But, like, on some level, it's a survival. But I'm also thinking about you being in school to become the CNM. It sounds like on the premise that you'll make more money
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Than a CPM.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And just have more credentials. I think that was part of it it too.
Speaker 0
But you still have awareness that you don't wanna birth in the hospital
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Which a CNM is quite intrinsically tied to.
Speaker 3
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So I have this kind of big day at Yeah. School where I finally make it to the labor and delivery clinicals. It's the very last rotation and before we graduate, and I'm, like, very excited now. I'm in I'm in the unit, and I'm I'm going to see the environment that I'll work in. I'm going to witness births, and I'm pumped about it. You know? And I remember on the second day of that clinical rotation, I was in a room of a birthing woman and also alongside three other students, maybe five or so nurses, and we're all crammed in this woman's room, and she is there alone. She doesn't have anyone with her. And it just felt so inappropriate to me at the time. And I remember hearing, like, students behind me, like, having their own private conversation about other things
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Room and just all of this was just got under my skin. And, luckily, she didn't birth while we were there. I was just hoping, like I really hope that we all just leave the room and let her be. So the round of us left. I don't know what happened after, but I remember going back to the nurse's station and just hearing the way the nurses were speaking about her and about other women who were birthing. It was disgusting. Mhmm. It was so disgusting, and I couldn't believe it. I was like, how how? Like, this is such a magical experience, and and your job is to be a part of it. Like, how is this how is this happening? And I also had this thought. I remember standing there and just this sinking feeling. This thought came to my mind of, like, I would never birth here. But very like, simultaneously, a next thought enters me of, like, and, also, I never wanna work in this environment either.
Speaker 0
No. So
Speaker 3
I go to the bathroom, and I, like, slide down the wall. My belly is all big, and I just have this, like, moment of sinking into this anxiety of like, wow. Okay. So this isn't my track either. Yeah. Okay. So I have to share this with my husband, and my family that I'm I know that I'm not gonna do this. My husband also is having his own experience that is similar to that. He's starting to notice. So when I tell him, he's like, me too. He's feeling kind of relieved. Like, I'm glad you bring that up because I don't see this for myself either. So we're kind of like, well, shit. We've, like, invested so much effort and money, but okay. We're not we're not gonna do it. And
Speaker 0
But in a way, you could see it as you've invested in discovering your track. And and getting a no is just as important as getting a yes. I mean, people get so attached to fulfilling the plan that they made up they were gonna have, and then they lose the curiosity and kind of the point of the thing, which is to discover your yeses and your noes. I love that you guys discovered your noes together also. Thank god. Like, what if he had been, like, so into it?
Speaker 3
I know. A huge problem. Yeah. I was so relieved. And so was he that, like, we both were feeling this way, and it kind of felt like, okay. As a team now, we're gonna we're gonna face this together and just we don't know where this is headed, but here we go. And so, yeah, the program ends, and my husband ends up getting a job at a drug rehabilitation center as a nurse, and I decide not to work as a nurse anywhere. He did this, I feel like, out of worry that we weren't gonna be stable in any other way, and we didn't have our plan set yet. He absolutely hated the job. It was awful. And so pretty much as soon as he gets tired, we're, like, trying to brainstorm and find a way that that he can leave and we can do something else. So, anyway, now I guess we can come to the day of the birth.
Speaker 0
And and you're still with the CNM? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3
And it's in a birthing center. And so
Speaker 0
And why didn't you do it at home like the like the sister-in-law?
Speaker 3
So in the state of Florida at the time, I don't know if it was just this birthing center, if it was a rule altogether, but you couldn't give birth to your first at home. You had to do it at a birthing center. So with my sister-in-law, it was her second, baby. And so I did wanna have her at home, but that was the rule. And so I go into labor around two in the morning. And I as I'm laying there in bed, I I start to notice and feel, you know, the low abdominal cramping, like, sensations of heat kind of in that lower space. And still with my eyes closed, like, all of a sudden, this shot of adrenaline kind of rushes through my body of realizing, like, woah. Is this labor? Oh my gosh. This is labor. And so that kind of wakes me up, and I decide to not tell my husband. And I just slink out to our living room and just use that time to calm myself down basically and settle into it. And so I'm rolling around on the ball, sipping on coconut water in the darkness, and dancing around, doing things until I can get back to, like, a calm state. And and my husband wakes up, and now I'm feeling better about it. And I let him know what's going on, and we just go about our day. And at some point, we decide to take a walk, and my sensations pick up. There's a few where I'm, like, kind of like, woah, leaning over, like, being consumed by them. So we come back home. Call my mom, and she comes over, and her and my husband are just kind of alternating, giving me, like, compressions on my back and supporting me through each sensation. And I get into the bathtub, and I start to notice that they're becoming more regular and more intense. And so I tell my mom, call the midwives at the birthing center and let them know we're coming. My husband gets me out of the bathtub into the truck, and and we leave my bubble, my sacred bubble. And as soon as we get on to the road, I go into transition. Yeah. And it was horrific, and I'm overstimulated by all of the lights. So at this point, it's around ten PM, and all of the bumps and the turns are just, like, horrible. And I just I'm sitting there with my eyes closed trying not to let anything in, but, I mean, it's happening. And so we get to the burning center, and I have this huge release right at the steps of I'm just filled with fear suddenly.
Speaker 4
And
Speaker 3
I just embrace my husband. I just melt into his arms and cry, and I'm so scared. And I have I sit there with him for several minutes until I build up the courage to step into the door because I knew, like, once I go in, like, I'm gonna be experiencing this very unknown, intense experience, and it really scared me.
Speaker 0
And Meaning the fear was about going into the birth center, not the fear of your next phase of birth or maybe both?
Speaker 3
I I think it was actually more about my next phase of birth. I think I was feeling really intimidated by
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
What I was feeling now and knowing that it was going to become more intense. Yeah. And so I finally do build up the courage. We go in, and she immediately I lay on the bed, and she checks me for dilation, and I'm already at ten. And she can also see baby's head in or feel baby's head in my canal. And so I get myself up and into the tub, and I tell my husband to get behind me. And then my parents arrive. I invited both my mom and my dad to come to the birth and be in the room, and they just kind of find their space on either side of the birth pool and just hold their ground and remain very quiet. And they were filming some and just being really present. I actually didn't notice them much at all. And so she was born a couple hours later. And at some point, in the tub, she check the midwife checks for fetal heart tones, and she lets me know that the baby's heart rate is descending, and she puts an oxygen mask on me. And this, like, really throws me off, and I leave it on for, like, one sensation, and it's, like, choking me. Like, my breath is no longer allowed to just flow, and so I, like, rip it off. And I look at her, and I'm like, I know how to breathe. And so I start slow taking slow deep breaths and just not letting her words of, like, your baby's heart rate is is to send me. Not letting that turn into fear. I just became, like, super determined to give my oxygen to my baby and calm down, and she doesn't check it again. I feel like she got the idea that I didn't I didn't want her to do that. And so we're just in the tub the entire time, and my husband is behind me, and I'm just, like, leaning up against him. And at the point of crowning is when I well, actually, her her head emerges, and she her head is out and just sitting there in my own, and I immediately, like, leave. There is a part of me that leaves my body and the room and the moment, and I just shoot up to, like, this cosmic space. It's like the I'm envisioning these this, like, beautiful, dark purple skies that looks like the Milky Way, and I'm, like, floating quickly to this beam this ball of light. And it's like I'm drifting past it, and I, like, grab it as I'm drifting. And then as soon as I grab it, I, like, shoot right back into my body, and it fills me with this fierce roar. And I just roar her out with one push and lift her up and see her beautiful face and just bring her to my chest. And it was surreal. I had never experienced, like, some out of body sort of, like, experience like that, so it was incredible. Looking at her in her beautiful eyes and just sitting there, and I I remember looking up and seeing my parents on either side of me, and it just felt like the biggest moment ever. Like, my husband has support. She's supporting me from behind. I have my parents as, like, these beautiful pillars on either side. And it was just it was amazing. And so the placenta was born really quickly. I would I don't even remember it much. I asked my husband about it yesterday, and they delivered the placenta. I remember her saying on the next sensation, let me know. And then my husband said that they basically pushed on my abdomen, and she did traction, and the placenta came out into the water. And then we get into the bed of the birthing center, and that's where they do the weighing, and they show me the placenta. And, we leave within four hours of that time of her being born. So we arrive back to our house and fall asleep for the day and then just wake up as this little family of three and start our life together.
Speaker 0
I love that. I love the out of body description.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 0
And it's what's really, really, really cool about that is that is a very shared spiritual experience.
Speaker 3
You know,
Speaker 0
that just, like, says something. When my children have come to me in plant ceremonies, they're always balls of light. Like, they're just these balls of light Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 0
Different color and yeah. Anyway, that's very cool.
Speaker 3
I loved my birth experience, and I left feeling very excited about it, wanting to talk about it with whoever would listen. We figure out how to get my husband out of the field of nursing, and we decide to start buying properties and turning them into Airbnb. And so he's able to leave now. This income supports us. Nice. And now we're all together. Yeah. It was really wonderful. And in that, we decide, like, well, now that we're all together, like, let's take this to the next level, and we decide to travel. And we want to build out a van and travel around with Sophie, and this is kind of just being planted in our minds at this time, and we're thinking about it. And then we start to feel or I I start to feel my next baby around me, and I start to become open to having him. And, basically, a similar conversation happens between my husband and I, and we decide, you know, ultimately, we technically aren't ready as far as what society feels, but let's just do it anyway and become pregnant immediately again. And my dynamic with my mom starts to take a turn. And I have a couple really big experiences, a couple big confrontations with her that really have scarred our relationship. And, so I'm starting to detach from her and everyone that I knew and also, like, who I was. I'm starting to feel this separation happening slowly but surely. And when I become pregnant with Apollo, I decide for whatever reason to go that birthing center closed down. I choose another one, and I start care with them. And it's very similar. This one, we're planning on having him at home, and we block the calendar for Airbnb, and we set up the birth space in our guest house, and that's where we're going to birth. The midwives are going to come to our house this time. And yeah. So
Speaker 0
Now that you're allowed to choose where you birth.
Speaker 3
Exactly. Yeah. So I choose to do it at home in my own space. And yeah. So when I go into labor with Apollo, I decide a couple days before this that I'm not gonna tell anyone this time and that it's gonna look very different. And it was really just because of everything that had been happening within my family and with me and my mom. Just felt hostile, and I just wanted to protect my space. And so I don't say anything. And I noticed, again, this is around six in the morning, similar sensations, the cramping. And I I realized it, but this time, I just decide to lay there in bed instead of getting up and moving around. And I laid still for hours, and it was such a different experience, my early labor from my daughter, Sophie, because I was in this, like, sleep wake meditative space of just laying still and feeling the sensations progressing and just staying silent and still. And at some point, I and as I'm doing this, Sophie and my husband are, like, getting the last things together in the guest house. And at some point, while I'm alone in the room, I sort of build up the courage to feel inside of myself. And I say courage because I had an experience in my last birth where she said, you can feel your baby. You can reach down and feel your baby. And I was like, no. Like, for whatever reason, I was like, absolutely not.
Speaker 0
Pretty much all women say no when someone tells them to do it. It's such a
Speaker 3
Interesting.
Speaker 0
Yeah. I mean, it's it makes sense, though, because from the outside I mean, so much about it is so infantilizing and offensive. You know? Like, to be told and suggested that you touch your own vulva and feel your own child at their pace when they think it's appropriate.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 0
You know? I mean, most of the time that I've ever seen a midwife or doctor suggest that the woman just freezes and is like, no. Mhmm. But, of course, when it's on your sovereign, you know, autonomous intuitive terms, of course, women reach down and touch their babies. Of course. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I do. I reach inside, and I can feel his head.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And it's still it's still pretty far up there, but I I holler out to my husband, and I say, I think I can feel his head. Do you wanna feel? And he's like, okay. And so he feels inside, and he says, yes. And I try one more time. And as my fingers are on his head, a sensation comes, and my fingers are being sort of pushed down with his head. And it was the most amazing feeling to really, like, connect the dots between this is really happening. A real person is there. Even though I knew this because I've already birthed, it was kind of like a real idea.
Speaker 0
Feeling you were feeling the bag. Right?
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. But it it was hardness. It was definitely I could feel that it was hardness. And I decide at that point to go to the guest house. I tell him, like, okay. Let's go. And when I get into the room where I'm going to birth, I pretty much go into transition right away. And it's, like, night and day from what I had been experiencing all day being in this still space. Now I'm, like, like, clawing my way around, and it is fully on. With my previous birth, it was very, like, blissful, and I was able to stay kind of ahead of the sensations almost. Like, I was able to ride them, and I never allowed myself to fully, fall into suffering. With this one, none of that was happening. I was just, like, on this train wreck and just really trying to get out of the situation. And Totally. Yeah.
Speaker 0
I feel you.
Speaker 3
So different and intense and fast, and I really felt like I was dying. And I remember anytime like, I was anytime my husband wanted to leave my side and let go of my hands, I would feel like I was drifting away like this helium balloon just up to oblivion. You know? And he holding me down kept me here. It was kind of crazy, and I just wouldn't allow him to leave. So he was doing this dance of, like, pressing on my back and then sliding his hand up to my shoulder to let me know he's still there to grab my hand when the sensation was over, then he'd come and we'd lock eyes. And he was just doing this sort of dance back and forth. My daughter, Sophie, is just prepping her space of where she's gonna be, and she's she's just in her own own world and and not feeling scared by what I was doing and and expressing. And he calls the midwife because it start he he now he looked down and could see baby's head. Like, I was opening, and he could see baby's head now. At least the, like, the bulging of the sack was starting to come out. And he calls the midwife, and she wants to hear me. So he brings the phone to me, and I'm, like, not able to hold the phone. And so he's just, like, like, holding it near me.
Speaker 0
Perform. Perform so that she knows that she's actually supposed to come.
Speaker 3
Oh my gosh. And so I don't even know what like, like, I don't speak to her. And, anyway, she just, like You'd think that
Speaker 0
the you'd you'd think that the client's partner saying he can see a bulging bag would be enough information to come running.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. We get into the birthing pool at that point, and the midwife arrives within thirty minutes. And I'm still just like, oh my god. It feels like my back is breaking and so intense. As soon as they arrive, I remember having this moment of locking eyes with the midwife and just being like, help me. Just like, please, please, please, and her coming in and and locking eyes with me and kind of encouraging me to get through it. They didn't do much monitoring. They didn't really poke and prod me, which I was I'm thankful for now. But in that space, I just really wasn't aware of anything that was really going on. And yeah. So Sophie is by my side. Peter is behind me again, and the midwives are in front. And he starts to emerge. My body starts to push him out with the fetal ejection reflex. And at that moment of crowning again, I'm just kind of filled with fear of the opening further. Like, it was very intense and resisting it. And I think a lot of my pain that I was experiencing was the resistance that I was experiencing. It started to happen so fast, and and I was in such a different space from the last one of just, like, welcoming every sensation and feeling excited about it. This one, I was like, oh god. I'm not ready. Oh my lord. Take it away. Stop. No. So I think all of that tensed me up, made it more intense. I couldn't get out of that, though. And so, yeah, he he emerges, and I pick him up out of the water. You know, same amazing moment of looking at him for the first time, and we just sat there the in the pool for a period of time. The midwife does the same thing with the placenta. She delivers it herself without me being really aware of of what's going on. And we get ourselves into the into the bed now, and now I'm in my own space. It's much more comfortable, and that's where, you know, their inform they need to get their data, and so they collect all that they need, and and they leave within an hour. So, so now we're just home. It's about nine PM. It's, like, perfect timing for us just to drift into sleep and wake up again the next day as a family of four now. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0
Did you have any sense with either of the placentas that you didn't that, or or was it just kind of unquestioned at that point?
Speaker 3
I hadn't connected how sacred the placenta was at that point. Yeah. And so it wasn't something that I thought much about. I kind of I didn't really connect with the with my placentas at that point.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So no. I just allowed for them to do that. And we did do, like, the a bit of a ceremony in the bed both times of the cutting of the cord. So I feel like there was a bit of honoring, but I still I didn't I don't I didn't feel like I do now about the placenta.
Speaker 0
Well, right. I mean, once a woman understands the holiness, she doesn't allow people to take her placenta. Yeah. You know? I mean Yeah.
Speaker 3
That makes so much sense.
Speaker 0
Just don't allow it once
Speaker 4
you know.
Speaker 0
Yeah. So so at this point, have you even heard about free birth? This this crazy thing some women do?
Speaker 3
No. I haven't. So, yeah, I feel like I'm being pretty extreme and radical just by having a home birth within a life. Yeah.
Speaker 0
Yeah. Just totally. Yeah. Okay. So then how does that birth leave you? And then now we have the big the big arc of Yeah. How do you become this crazy free birther?
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I, again, leave this birth feeling amazing about my experience and just so empowered and so, in love with my baby. And I didn't tell anyone that he was born for three days. We call our parents on the third day, and we tell them. And then we also tell them, and we don't want anyone to come over for at least a month, and we'll let you know. And they live in town, and they're, like, a part of our life. And so this is kind of a big pill for them to swallow. And in my life at this point, there were just so many instances where I was starting to need to set boundaries that I hadn't ever needed to set. And in retrospect, looking back at that experience and even thinking about what I was physically experiencing in my labor with Apollo, I feel like this was me separating myself from kind of stepping out of the role of daughter and into the role of mother, and it was brutal. It was so brutal, and it was it involved a ton of me stepping out of my comfort and setting boundaries where I hadn't before and sharing my my, wants and desires. And they were not being respected. Like, especially about items, buying the baby items. We were in this process of selling our home and getting rid of all of our things so that we could take this trip in this van that we were gonna build out. And no one was respecting, like, we don't want things. Like, they wouldn't. And so I remember that being just a big thing of, like, you guys are not respecting my wishes, and I don't want to be filled with plastic things. And so that was that's just an example of of it. And it felt like, yeah, that I was just continuing to separate myself. And
Speaker 0
It's interesting too, though, because a a part of taking the your your parents' or his parents' choice to gift their grandchildren, you know, your your choice to take that personal is very much still the daughter archetype. That's like you know and and I totally relate. This is not a, yeah. You know what? This is this is I have to do this. I have to critique and talk it out, you know? Yeah. But it's interesting because I think a lot of us can relate to this, you know, I call it the turning of the wheel in the family where we're, like, taking our positions as mother and a part of our daughter archetype has to die in order to do that. And, yeah, I I still think there is an immaturity in us, totally relate, that would even take something like that personal because that's the daughter in us being like, no. Do what I say. Like, sing me. I'm an adult. I don't want that. You know? But to me, it's like, actually the mother archetype would be so graceful. But you know what I mean? So there then there's this, like I'm just kinda making this up. But I would think, like, the the mother archetype would not take it personal and would I don't know. It's just something interesting, I think, for all of us to explore because that tension between the daughter and all of our many issues with our parents and all of that, kind of being stunted at fifteen, you know, fifteen, you know, thing that we all have. I feel like any feisty girl I've ever met has that that fifteen year old persona that's like, see. You know? I'm an adult. You know? But it the the comedy to me about that is that that's actually quite immature. Right? To to be, like, targeting it all so personal. Anyway, it's all just so interesting. But I wanna get back to what you said around, you're letting them know at day three, but you're also saying, and you guys can't see us for a month, which is very Yeah. And and and actually pretty dramatic. Mhmm. You know? And what I'm hearing you say is that you really felt like you needed to play with, like, being the one in charge, like, being
Speaker 3
the one
Speaker 0
that, like, set the set the rules and, like, this is on my terms.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I really loved it. I but I will say that it came with a lot of questioning if if I should feel guilty about it and it being kind of cringey to do that because I was very close with my parents growing up, and they kind of they were so involved in Sophie's life up to that point Yeah. That it definitely was weird for everyone for me to put that down, but I did feel like I wanted to protect that space. And I knew that, especially, our mothers would come and just right away, just be all there. And so I felt like it was easier to navigate if I just put up this huge boundary of, like, no one is coming until at least a month. You know? We can chat on the phone every now and then. You know? But I don't want any visitors. My my dad has always been very gentle and respectful. My mom is different than that, and, she has a lot of fear in her life. And although she did a great job at my first birth and just staying really quiet and present, because of the huge confrontations that we had had and that scarring of our relationship, it just no longer felt No. Pure anymore. Yeah. And so Oh, it's so
Speaker 0
layered, isn't it?
Speaker 3
It is. And it it was really devastating, actually, that I was choosing to set these boundaries, but also empowering. I felt excited that I now, like, had this voice that I was using, and they don't come for a month. Once they do, I don't really remember that much. It's just that they meet baby, and we just all move on. And but still definitely, like, some hostility is still there with my mom and I, and they have a lot of resistance to us wanting to travel in the van with the kids. They have a lot of opinions about that, and we This
Speaker 0
is what's, like this is what we need to remember when our kids are grown. The the number one quickest way to alienate your adult daughter is to judge her life. It's just the quickest way. You know, and it's so sad. It's so depressing because you know these parents wanna be involved. You know they love you very much. You know that they love their grandkids very much. And this is such a common thing that that I see again and again and again in my sisters' lives of, like, exactly what you're describing, this, like, critical, judgmental, inserting their own fear and opinion into the adult daughter's life. And, like, duh, one hundred percent of the time, as a woman is trying to claim herself and and claim her her her wife, you know, position and her mother position, what's going to happen is the parents are going to be alienated. Mhmm. Because they have to be. Who wants to who who can figure themselves out while they're being constantly judged by their parents, which are, like, one of the most important, you know, roles in our lives? It's just it's so whenever I hear stuff like this, I'm always like, god. I need to remember that. Like, I want I intend to be very close to my adult children, and I won't get that if I am a judgy bitch.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. I feel like you and I are doing work that our parents didn't do
Speaker 0
Didn't do.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So it's possible. So do you actually
Speaker 0
do you actually wind up doing the van thing?
Speaker 3
We do. So Apollo is about six months old. When we finished the van, it took us two months to build it out ourselves, and we hit the road. We take off, and it's really amazing, super challenging. Yeah. It was it was something. And about six months into our trip, we find out that my dad has passed away unexpectedly. Shit. Yes. Yeah. And this is Hello. Crushing for me. Yeah. Very devastating, and we're still on the road. And, we continue to be on the road for it's a total of three years that we're traveling in the van. And so now I've got, like, two and a half years after my dad has passed of just, like, being in this new darkness that I've never experienced. And the grief process there was so intense because, well, I had not been speaking to my parents, and it had been a while at that point. And my it wasn't really my dad, but my dad was kind of supporting my mom by not reaching out to me too. And so it was just this moment of everyone pausing, and, like, we're gonna just stay away from each other. It's just, like, a year and a half, and I hadn't talked to them.
Speaker 0
You didn't, like, go home? And
Speaker 3
It was during it was in twenty twenty, so it was during all of that. That's when we left in the van. So, I didn't come home because there was, like, so much complication with his memorial about people feeling safe to fly, and I was just like, y'all figure that out and let me know. So, yeah, I am now in this van having, like, great experiences on on the road, but I'm also this is like a vessel of my grief. Right? Like, I'm just kind of consumed by this, and I'm in real darkness that I had never experienced. And, it was a lot of me feeling so sad that it had happened in the way that it did. Yeah. And, during that time, I lost all connection with anyone also with my mom just completely cut off. Extended family, didn't hear from anyone. Like, no one reached out. I wasn't speaking with anyone. What about your brother? No. No one. It was really bizarre. It was it felt like I was in the twilight zone. Honestly, it was like a lot of me feeling like a victim for sure of just, like, where is everybody? Why why isn't anyone here? You know? And then me not really reaching out either. So
Speaker 0
And was this was this how much did this have to do with everyone buying into the circus of COVID and you not?
Speaker 3
A lot. Yeah. Yeah. A lot. Because we're we're kind of floating around during the pandemic in this van, and we're starting to realize, like, wow. There's so many other ways of doing and feeling and thinking about life. Like, that's what we're experiencing while everyone else is experiencing this, like, like, closing in and tunnel vision now and lots of fear. And and we just weren't, but I was experiencing major sadness and feeling very alone and questioning, like, what even is life? Like, everything was so confusing to me, and it was kind of in those moments where I started to harness curiosity for me because I it felt like it was this curiosity was this way out of my darkness. It was like this gentle way for me to get out of the darkness because Mhmm. I started to just be curious about my experience and where even did my dad go. Like, for the longest time, I was stuck in this process of grief of, like, he's missing. He disappeared. Like, where the fuck did he go? And I was stuck there for so long, and
Speaker 4
it
Speaker 3
really shook me up. And so, anyway, we end up starting to feel like the van experience is coming to an end. We're not enjoying it as much anymore, and we start to look around the Asheville, North Carolina area to rent and stop traveling. And at that point, it was really hard to get a rental, and Asheville is, like, weirdly competitive, and so we just couldn't. We couldn't get into a place. And I am now discovered that I am pregnant with Andre in this moment. And so when
Speaker 1
I
Speaker 3
gosh, my my order is kind of jumbling up right here. But I do wanna say to step back, during that period of curiosity, I started, like, diving into all kinds of things. And I remember it was in this. I was actually watching a Kim and Nami podcast that you were on, and I was sitting in my garden bed. I can see it from here. And it was something like what is free birth, I think is what it was. And that's where I first heard the term ever. And I remember sitting there next to my garden, and it was just like this huge moment of it felt like a full body. Yes. Absolutely. But it also felt like like, yes. I want to do that for myself in my next birth, but, also, it felt incredible to suddenly see this new way that I could support women. And it was like, oh my god. That's that's it. That's how that's how I'm going to be in birth in my life. Like, this makes so much sense. And so, like, right away, I was like, oh, absolutely. I'm doing that for myself. And, also, now I can see clearly my path of supporting women. So it was a huge moment. Very shortly after, I become pregnant with Andre, and we just know right away. My my husband is actually fully on board. We had, you know, a common conversation I feel like some people have where they're just kind of like, did we need to do all of that? Couldn't we just have done this on our own? We could avoid all of the anxiety and fear and just, like, annoying disruptions that we had. And that's kind of where it came from, and he really just was supportive from the get go. And so we're in Asheville. I'm pregnant. I'm wanting to be done with the van because I know this baby is coming. We've outgrown it, and we can't find a place. And so we, like, toss ideas around, and we're like, what about Hawaii? We're already, like, doing crazy things. Why not? We've never been there. Who cares? Let's do Hawaii and to have the baby because we are now kind of, like, displaced people. Like, we're we're kind of in between, like, living in the van and having a place. And so we have to decide, where are we gonna have this baby? And we choose Hawaii.
Speaker 0
What island?
Speaker 3
We choose we don't want to do this, but we we end up picking Oahu because we bring our huge German shepherd. It was a nightmare. And for I really wanted to go to Maui, but there was, like, complications. They wouldn't let such a large dog fly from Oahu to any other island. So we were on Oahu, and that's what we chose because we chose to bring our dog with us. We were under the assumption that we were moving there. Like so it felt like this really big move, and we brought all of our things and our dog. And so, yeah, we arrive to Hawaii at the end of my pregnancy, so just like a month before birth. And at this time, I'm in the membership. I'm attending a lot of the calls, making a lot of connections with women, and just really preparing for the free birth and feeling really excited about it. Once we arrive to Hawaii, I'm just in the condo. Peter and my kids are exploring a bit, and I don't go anywhere. I'm just there in this car.
Speaker 0
So You're living off of your Airbnb money?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. Yes. And us selling our houses. We sold two houses, and so we're still just, like, doing that. And we rent an Airbnb there to live in and to birth in. And, yeah, I'm just I'm just really getting myself ready mentally, and I'm unraveling the fears that are coming up for me and really just working through it all and filling my space up with the birth stories from this podcast and just getting really excited for it, really. I got to the point where I wasn't I wasn't scared anymore. The things that I was most afraid of were my baby dying, me dying, and then what repercussions would come after that. So I just had to really sit with those things and imagine that if they were like, imagine that they came, and then where would what where would I be and what would be happening if that were to happen? And it just came down to, well, if if these things happen, if my baby dies, I don't want to be in the hospital for that experience either. And that's ultimately what it ended up. Like, I just kind of unpacked and unraveled all of the fears that I had around it, and they all just ended up being, well, I would wanna be it just us at home anyway. So then, like, coming to the decision of it after all of that work was really simple. It was like, okay. It's so simple. I'm still gonna choose this. And so
Speaker 0
yeah. But it also sounds like you had some already pretty deprogrammed, how would I say it? Like, when you were talking about you and your husband kind of being like, well, the medical care was kind of just annoying. Like, that implies that you guys were no longer captured by the, idea that at least she was there because she kept safe.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 0
You know what I mean? Because that that's why everyone puts up with all that shit. No one, like, likes the continuous monitoring or being constantly fingered or being told to get out of the tub or having their placenta ripped out. Like, no one likes that. They just put up with it because they believe that the midwife being there somehow increases the chance of mother baby survival, even though statistically where is that true? Where is that proven? It's not. Right? But but women and and partners who are no longer captured by that, once you kinda move past that idea consciously or not, then it just says a lot that it's like, oh, yeah. That actually was kind of annoying because that means do you get what I'm saying? That means that the Yeah. Captured, you know, concept wasn't anymore, whether you were supercognitive of that or not. And so then moving into these questions around death and and sitting with that, which, you know, I think almost all women who choose free birth do really deep work around that
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Kind of like we have to. Right? Because there isn't that illusion of a safety net anymore.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I had definitely come to the point where I felt unsafe to go to the hospital. Like, I felt safer definitely to do it on our own at our own house. You know? Without anyone there, I felt safer. So I've reached that point through all of the work, I suppose. Yeah. So I guess we'll just dive into when I go into labor. It's about two in the morning again. And the night actually, no. So I I'm watching a movie with my family when I when I get the first hint of it, and it's the same feeling. So I know pretty much right away. Like, okay. Interesting. Here we go. And everyone is in this calm space just watching a movie snuggled up, so I just keep it to myself. And I let everyone go to sleep. I don't tell my husband, and I just come out to the living room. And there are these huge mirrors on the wall, like, this whole wall of mirrors. And I was just out there completely naked in the dark. I lit one candle, and it was kind of, like, flickering golden light everywhere. And I was just feeling into myself, and I was dancing, and I was, like, loving my pregnant body and the way that it looked. And I just felt so beautiful. And I felt so in love with my body and my baby, and I felt like I was just filled with gratitude and excitement for, like, giving myself the opportunity to be right here where I was. Like Totally. I'm sending my myself so much love and gratitude for allowing me and myself and I to have this experience. And so I do that for hours, and I remember getting two bowls from the kitchen, one for the placenta, one for me to puke in, and I decide to put those in the bathroom, And I go lay down.
Speaker 0
All while dancing while dancing sensually.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Get my puke bowl set.
Speaker 0
Oh, love it.
Speaker 3
I go lay down. I don't tell Peter what's going on, and I fall into the same state that I did with my second birth where I am in this still space of just laying still, processing what's happening. And it's not nearly as long this time. Maybe an hour or so passes by, and I start to hear this over and over of, like, get ready because when you get up, it's starting. And it was just like like, for real, you need to know that when you choose to get off of this bed
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 3
You're going to go birth. Yeah. And so it took me a bit, and I was like, like, sitting there, like, oh my god. I'm not ready. And then I finally come to the place where I am. I get up, and I go straight to the bathroom, sit on the toilet, and I just sit there like this with my chest wide spread open and my palms up like this. And I just start to envision these huge beams of light just shooting from my palms up to the sky, and then it coming back down, and it's just like this channel. You know? And I'm just saying open. I am open over and over again, and I can feel myself opening on the toilet with every time I say that. And then the sensations are back to back to back to back, and I'm, like, clearly in transition at this moment. And because of the sounds that I start making, my husband wakes up, comes and checks on me, without words, though, and just immediately sees what's happening and does his thing of letting me know he's there. But this time, I don't need to hold on to him. I don't need that same
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Anchor that I needed. I'm just really in my own space and in my body. And then this this was the first one that I was really in my body for. With Sophie, my first, I was, like, going up to the cosmos. With Apollo, I was dying and clawing my way out of the my body. And in this one, I was, like, completely good and fine with being in the moment and in my body, and I didn't feel scared at all. And I felt so grateful for every sensation that came. And I remember listening to Yolanda's birth affirmations usually as I would fall asleep or if I would take a bath. And just in that, just me realizing how thankful I was. Just, like, just me wanting to put out there that, no. I want to fully, fully, fully be here and experience whatever this is. Whatever is going to happen, I can tell that my soul needs this healing and that this experience and that this baby are going to bring so much healing to me in this experience. And so that's really what I was feeling during all of it. I get into the bathtub, like, a regular bathtub this time, not a birthing pool, and it really picks up. And at some point, I kind of peek open and I my eyes open and I see my daughter, Sophie, and Apollo bringing pillows in and, like, scooting, like, setting up their little space on the toilet and Just quietly making their fort. And, yeah, they're all staying away from me, and I talked about this with them a lot of, like, a few things that mama doesn't want is I don't want you to get in the bathtub with me. I also don't want you to touch, mama. No. I don't even want you to talk. Like like, we really worked through this. And Yeah. And I I also said when the baby comes, it's exciting. I know, but we have to we're gonna we're gonna stay calm during that moment too.
Speaker 0
And they're three and six.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And I let them know, like, don't reach for the baby. Please let mommy guide everyone. You know? And yeah. So they, like, did that. I wasn't sure if they would. I really wasn't. But, they did. They really listened.
Speaker 0
Well, the six year old, I would assume, but the three is the wild card.
Speaker 3
Yeah. They were wonderful. And they probably just followed his sister's lead.
Speaker 0
And there is something you know, there's like a spell on birth. Absolutely. You know, most kids I've ever seen attend over two and a half. Like, they kinda they just get it. There's something kind of there's like a spell that happens.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. They got it, and I could feel that. And I had been showing them different birth videos because
Speaker 4
I
Speaker 3
just wanted them to know all of the possibilities that they might be seeing or hearing. And so they were very familiar with the noises that I was making, and and I didn't sense that anyone was scared in the room with me either. But I was just staying very my eyes closed and in my own space, making a lot of noise, but it was controlled. It was, like, deep primal roars this time rather than, like, help me. You know? It was different. And I realized that he was starting to crown. And so I was just, like, leaning back in the bathtub, and I decided to get up into a squat. And I've got my elbows on either side of the tub. And I'm not saying anything to anyone, but I start breathing differently, and my body starts pushing on its own. And my husband just knows, you know, what's happening. And, I slowly just breathe him his head out, and I wasn't afraid of the ring of fire this time. I wasn't afraid of my body splitting in half. I just wasn't. I could feel him coming down with every sensation, and I loved that. I loved that I could feel it this time. It was really, really unique from my experiences.
Speaker 4
It didn't
Speaker 0
make you feel like you wanted to die? No. I actually This is inspiring to me, Rosie.
Speaker 3
Good. No. Honestly, I felt very, very alive if I can be real about it. Like, opposite of I'm dying. I felt never more alive, and it was wonderful. So I'm squatting. His head's coming out, and I can hear little squeals coming from my Apollo. Like, oh my goodness. But he stays calm. And I have, like, three sensations of his head just staying right there. And in that moment, I start to envision all of the women that are birthing with me at this time. And so that really gets me focused on finishing it, basically, and I start to like, like, I feel my heart connecting with them wherever they are. And it's like I'm feeding this power, and I'm giving this power to them. And it's like this this beautiful exchange with invisible people that I know are having this experience with me. You know? And that's what ultimately got me through to pushing him out. And I did. I didn't force any of the pushing. Actually, in any of my births, I just allowed for the baby to for my body to push it out itself. And, obviously, we didn't know the gender. I had a wild pregnancy. We didn't really discuss that, but I hadn't I'd seen no one in in this pregnancy. And so when he comes out and I bring him to my chest, I immediately cover his genitals, and I don't want anyone There's another thing. Like, no one shout out what it is. Okay? Yeah. And I just laid there with him in the bathtub for, like, thirty minutes without discovering it.
Speaker 0
Wait. You covered without seeing it?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I took my hand, covered it. I didn't wanna see. I didn't want anyone to see, and I just held him to me and just connected with him on, like, soul to soul level. And it felt, like, really important to me in that moment to not put any labels on anybody yet and, like, just simply feel him and connect with him and, like, welcome him to the world. But, anyway, I laying there, I did a secret peek, and I peeked, and I fall back into it. And I'm like, oh my god. I know it's my son now. Wow. And I'm having this moment all to myself. And they're there, but they don't know it. And I'm, like, just, like, falling deeper and deeper and deeper in love with him with every, like, breath that I take. And it just feels like it makes so much sense that he's a boy. And, we get out of the bath into the tub, and then we're laying there for a very short period of time, and I start to feel sensations again. And I and heaviness, like, on my yoni, and I'm getting very uncomfortable. And so I tell my husband, the placenta wants to come out. Go get that bowl. And I while holding Andre, I just step off of the bed and keep kind of, like, one elbow on the bed, And I'm squatting, and my husband just holds the bowl under, and it just falls into Nice. The bowl. There was no issue whatever about it. Yeah. And so after that, we laid in the bed, and that's when I'm like, are you ready to find out what he is, what the baby is? And everyone's like, of course. And and we do that, and it's like this most beautiful celebration on the bed. He's now, like, forty five minutes old, and everyone's discovering they have a brother and a son, and it was just amazing. And we lay there. My husband makes breakfast. My kids go watch cartoons, and our day just really continues. And we I do remember feeling like that was so simple, and I was expecting it to be epic. And it felt a little weird that it was so simple. Like, it kind of messed with me a little bit. Like, what? Like, it's done? Like, I've been preparing for this for so long. But, also, I could feel that it was it was like healing that was going to take place over a period of time. I could also feel that. And now that I can look back in retrospect, I can see, like, the massive transformation that has happened since then and and the healing that's occurred since birth. But in the moment, it was kind of like, that was really simple.
Speaker 0
Like But in a way, to me, like, when I hear that, I think that is you becoming wild. Meaning that you arrived at a place against all your conditioning, all your recent, you know, ancestry of birth, against all odds of society that you created and allowed a completely simple mammalian birth, to me is like, woah. Like, you have become untamed. Yeah. Because that's how the zebra birth. That's how the deer birth. That's how the wolf births. It is simple. Right? It's kind of, like, the most wild thing.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. But the balance between just that life simply moved on, and we were all doing the things as normal, but this huge thing has happened. It was it was really interesting dance. Yeah. Totally. But we did.
Speaker 0
We just It's the most it's the most, like, mundane everyday thing
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 0
In a way. It is. It's kind of, like, endlessly comical because it is both. It's absolutely soul shattering. You know, it can't not be epic in the transformation that it will do to your whole family and yet just another day.
Speaker 3
It was. It really was.
Speaker 0
But just a wild pregnancy, that is that is integrated. That's birth integrated. You know? And, gosh, what a evolution from your first where you're leaving your home. You're you're you know, you use the word horrific in your transition because you're in a fucking car. You are outsourcing, you know, everything. You're you're you know, all it's just so it's so dramatic, you know, to leave your home and, obviously, is what most people do. But it is it's so compartmentalized birth in society. You know? And then all of a sudden, you're just, like, having this, like, totally boring, simple, you know, integrated experience. It's it's amazing. It's it's kind of you know, it's one of the most it's one of the most impactful things I think we can do in a way. It you know, it's kinda like the biggest rebellion in our family to show our child, our children integrated birth. Mhmm. Because it's kind of, like, you know, at the crux of the opposite of the rest of society and what what no one really knows. It's like this big secret, you know, that you're, like, letting your family in on. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 3
It's so cool. Really. I wanted to touch on too just this tool that I had started to harness of curiosity again. And I had started it in my grieving process that kind of pulled me out of my darkness. And I used this throughout my wild pregnancy and then through the birth too, and it really anytime within the birth that I started to sense any tiny bit of fear or suffering, I just dropped back into curiosity, and it lifted all of that, like, instantly. Just to get back in in a mind of being curious about what was happening, it brought me back into the moment and into my body of, like and it lightened it. Mhmm. It brought a lightness to it, and I I was just blown away by how simple of a tool that was, but how profound it was in those really challenging moments. But then it's it's continued in my life after of any hard or challenging situation. I'm now able to, like, fall back into that curious space and then look at it a different way. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 0
And Choosing curiosity is actually paradigm shifting.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Seriously. It's linked to this thing. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 0
I feel you.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I wasn't able to stay in fear when I was curious because I was just like, what?
Speaker 0
They're they're opposite.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Billy. And, I mean, I I would just go back into my body and into the moment of, like, I wonder what what this is, instead of being like, oh my god. What's happening? It was kind of like, what is this? Like, what I wonder what is happening right now with me and with baby for me to be feeling these sensations. It was just like this other space of It's from
Speaker 0
closed to open.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was really powerful, and it still has been. At the festival, I was using it a ton of, like, I wonder what it would be like if I'm just big right here, and I'm seen. Like, that's terrifying, but what is it gonna do? I'm curious. And, like so I've been doing it a ton. And every time that I do that, it allows me to get out of my own way, for one, and it's never been a bad thing. Like, every single time, I've only gained gifts out of it. Because you're
Speaker 0
playing with your your expense you're you're expanding when you do that. You're playing with your raising your thermostat setting and expanding into a bigger, state, which the track of curiosity and wonder in the tools, there's actually a tool called wonder questions. And it's to bring yourself into curiosity. You spend time in a state of presence just coming up with wonder questions, but the whole point of the exercise is you're not intending to arrive on anything. There's no plan. You're not trying to figure anything out. It's just to go for a walk and and spend time in a state of wonder. And when you pose those kind of questions, it's kind of limit limitless because you just get to try stuff on instead of finding the answer. So you're doing that organically.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's been really powerful.
Speaker 0
Alright, Rosie. Well, thank you for your time, and I can't wait to see you this summer.
Speaker 3
Same. I can't wait either. Thank you, Emilee, so much for everything, and I loved it. It was so fun.
Speaker 0
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below and, of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of sovereign birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's gathering, the matriarch rising festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, ship, The Lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding, the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line we define from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons, all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
