Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild, freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya. It's
Speaker 0
been a wild freedom check since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Women, we've made it. Season eight at the end. A whole another season down of story medicine, truth telling, remembering, and deep reclamation. And I want to begin this season finale by first saying thank you from the bottom of my heart, my full and bursting heart to every single woman who has ever come on to this podcast this season and over all the many years now that we've done it to share your stories. Your courage, your vulnerability, your devotion to truth. Gosh. It just matters so much and it's changing the world. It's obviously changed you, and it's changing me. And now it's changing thousands and thousands of women and families who tune in every week from every corner of this earth. This is a real movement now, a very, very real one, and it's because of each and every one of you. So thank you all for being here in one way or another. So while we're here, before we dive into today's big conversation with the one and only sister Morningstar, let me remind you that this is it. This is your last chance to join us, me, all of us that will be together this summer for Matriarch Rising Festival. It is the fifth and final one. Our last sacred summer solstice gathering, our last dance under the stars, our last chance, at least for now, to be together in the flesh on this amazing land in sisterhood with me and the legendary sister morning star and so many special powerful women. So if you've been feeling the pull, please come. Don't wait. Do not miss this. It's going to be pure magic. It always is. It's the kind of magic that really can change you forever. And then we will take our annual summer pause, you know, first to focus on matriarch rising and and then this summer to prepare the nest for my upcoming birth. Still adjusting to that one. I really just kinda can't believe it. Starting to get excited. But wow. I'm going to give birth again. Please keep me in your prayers, in your hearts. August is my birthing month. And with that portal opening, we're also going to be opening up enrollment for our incredible long form program, program, Match Your Birth Mentor Institute. This is by far the most potent container that Yolanda and I have ever created for women who are learning to walk the sovereign path of professional birth work. It's incredibly dynamic. It has an intensive dripped library of lectures and classes, two monthly calls with Yo and I, and a regular mentor session with your assigned pod, a small group with a personal mentor. Not to mention our monthly spotlight teachers who bring an expert level workshop. So if you wanna learn how to step into the free birth world professionally, MMI is the program Enrollment will open August first, we'll begin the school September first, so if you feel the call, you can get on the wait list. The link is in the show notes below. Also, something super special is coming your way in July. Last year, elder midwife, my dear friend, Sister Morningstar and I co led, co created a retreat that we called the Midwife Within. And we had the most magical five days. We had it professionally filmed and beautifully edited and we're going to release it as a virtual retreat, a virtual training in early July. So five full days of sisters brilliance and wisdom all wrapped in a cozy soul deep retreat energy, you're gonna feel like you're right there with us. So keep your eyes out for that too. If you've ever wanted to come to matriarch rising or visit Sister on her holy land and haven't been able to, then this virtual retreat is really made for you. And speaking of new things, we're shaking it up next season here on the pod. We will be back one month earlier than usual in August with season nine. We've got some really big up levels coming your way. I'm really excited. Also, we're adding a new segment called Ask Emilee to the end of each episode. You women have been requesting this for so long, so you can head to the show notes and you'll find the link to the pod page and then you can write in with your situation or your questions and hear from me directly at the end of each episode. I can't wait to connect with you all in that way, we'll be grabbing them them all summer long, so if you have a burning question or are looking for some guidance, go down to the show notes and drop your question. Our team will review it and hopefully I'll be speaking about it soon. One last thing, if you own or are a part of a brand that feels truly aligned with our values here at Free Birth Society, I am opening up a very limited number of advertising spots for season nine. So this is the first time we've ever done this and if it feels right, I want you to reach out to my team at podcastfreebursociety dot com and we'll see if we can make it happen. Alright, thank you so much, thank you for riding this season eight waves with me, thank you for being a part of this worldwide ancestral remembering. Our community is growing, the movement is spreading, and women everywhere are choosing to birth in power and to step into this sacred work professionally. I'm really blown away year after year. I know I always say this, but I'm just so proud. And I'm really grateful beyond words to be alive during this extraordinary time on earth. So enjoy this final episode of season eight. It's a really special one. It's with Sister Morningstar who has shaped this movement and my life in more ways than I could ever really say. So, what a way to close this season. Lots of love to all of you. Thank you for being here with me, and I will see you soon for season nine. Alright. Welcome back, sister Morningstar, my dear friend.
Speaker 3
Well, thank you for having me. Yeah. I've been to my little cottage in the woods and come to town to talk with you.
Speaker 2
I'm very honored. Yeah. Again again, you've been visiting this podcast, I think, since its second season. So if any of you are new to sister, go back to the beginning because she's talked about village prenatals and newborn first breaths and all sorts of really wisdom rich information. And so today, I just couldn't think of a better woman to close out this season with and have a a flowing conversation around some of, well, my favorite topics and then, realizing as I get to sit down with you that there are some things I really want to know about you and that that I've read. I mean, I've read your book. I know that these stories are contained in your book as you wrote them at that time in your life. But I thought it would be so cool to open up this conversation with you sharing in whatever way you really want about your own three births, your lessons of them. I'm sure there's many. And I'd like to take that into learning more about what your birth work looked like in your younger years because I know there's a really big story there. Yeah. And you've just been I mean, you're a legend. You're you're so inspirational to us as sovereign birth workers and learning how to hold this torch, you know, with you in this time. So, yeah, just start wherever you want. We'll see what happens.
Speaker 3
Well, okay. I'm I'm happy to do that. It's reminding me right now to, like, anoint us all, whoever is here with us, that we are torch bearers of of truth. So, I'll begin with my story. But as I'm speaking, of course, you have a story. Dear dear women or even the sacred masculine out there, if you happen to listen. Let's see. Where where I would begin about birth, it would be my own birth. Right? Because I was born of a woman and my lineage people, Cherokee. My mother was, dying of tuberculosis. So I was born in a TB sanitarium in nineteen fifty three where no other babies were born. So the people there were dying of tuberculosis at the time. And, so I was born she weighed sixty five pounds when they brought her in. Woah. And there I was. I I was born this living, healthy creature in a a space where everything was dying. And so I have this my own, cellular memory. And, of course, when I've done regression therapy and all that, but I already knew it. Like, just so much joy at my birth. This was just me being born. I could just feel all the happiness. Everyone so thrilled that this little life, was infusing the atmosphere. And my mother was not allowed to touch me, of course. I was taken immediately away and even sent to a different, hospital a little bit down the down the way. And a nurse cared for me until my grandparents were able who could not read or write, were able to negotiate with the health department, to get to get me, to have their own blood with them. And this was a big story. This was my beginning of my life. Wow. Mother didn't die, but she was there another year and a half or two years. Oh my god. And my parents were constantly in the, how do I say, not negotiation, but so they would try to get the Department of Health would try to get my mother to sign me over adoption to this beautiful nurse, I'm sure, missus Crutchfield. If anybody knows, missus Crutchfield in nineteen fifty three that had a little baby named Sandra, with her. Anyway, mother would not sign me over because I was a girl. She said, if you had been a boy, I would have signed you over, but you were a girl. No. They cannot have my girl. And then my grandparents who constantly the department would say, well, we need this from you and that from you. It was through the mail because it was not in the same town. This was a long time ago and, long way apart at that time. It it it was not the same of as traveling and, of course, no phones and internets and this and that. So it would be through the mail, and they would send something back, and then they'd get something back that, no, you win this and that, and they didn't read and write. And it finally the story goes according to my people and my, aunt Shirley who's still living that, papa and granny just got a vehicle and drove to this town with the Department of Health, and papa had his shotgun. And he just said, you have our baby, and you need to give her back. Like, we're done with all your this and that. You have our baby, and she's ours. You need to give her back. And that's how I ended up with my grandparents being raised in the woods, and this is my beginning. Woah. So, of course, I didn't really know or consciously think about that when I was starting to have my baby. My first child, at that time, it was just go to the hospital. So my and I was born, remember, in this sanitarium, which wasn't a baby hospital, but still was hospital. First child in the lineage of all of our people to be born in facility. Woah. Another, of course, was born at home. Granny was born at home. Everybody born at home. And so this was big shift. And then I was going to be having my my child in this hospital, and the doctor, a doctor for now, he checked me first time I ever been to a doctor, and he said, I give you maybe fifty fifty chance to have a natural birth. You're small. And I remember leaving that appointment, and it just never occurred to me that he knew what he was talking about. So these things, they shaped me being with women later. So for example, in my brain, I it it never I didn't give it a second thought because my first thought was, one, he doesn't know my people. Two, he doesn't know me, what I'm capable of. And my all my people were little. I was no littler than they were. They had all had babies. So these two points, he knew nothing about. And three, he was man. I thought, how can he know anything about what I'm capable of? So three counts, you know, he it never occurred to me. Later, when I was helping other women and they would, you know, say, well, but the doctor said and the doctor said and the doctor said. What was shocking to me was not that the doctor said this or that, but that they believed him. I was like, wow. Why would you believe someone who knows nothing? Anyway, so back to that baby. It was my first baby. Supposedly, I went past their, due dates. I sat in the creek naked, water rushing over me in the August and September months, and she was born October tenth, a little bit past what they thought. But she was born in an hour and fifty three minutes. Woah. So I I was, you know, contracting in the last little bit. I had a big garden. Oh my goodness. Acre of tomatoes, putting up vegetables, and the doctor would say, you need to get off your feet. And my, the father of my children, he bought me a stool so I could sit on the stool to do the vegetables and be off my feet. So this is the way we handled things back in the day in the creek and in the gardens and this and that. And then one night, at eleven PM, my waters just rushed out, of course, abundantly and clear and everything. No no contraction at that time. And, when I called to let doctor for know, he said, oh, they'll they'll start sometime. And when they do, that's when you can come on in because you're a first time mother. So it was about one o'clock or so, and sure enough, I had a a significant change. Like, oh, I felt my eyes got big, you know, all this big feeling first time. And so we gathered our things. We went. And so an hour and fifty three minutes later at two fifty three, she was born. Well, between that time, it things were happening. Of course, I didn't know that much about what is happening. But afterwards or I should say during it, the the nurse, she was shouting at me because it was in nineteen seventy five. Okay. So they did enema, but shave you, then enema, and this and that, And rushing to get me somewhere because things were grow going quickly unexpectedly with this first time, wild woman, turkey woman. And they asked me, pick your bottom up and move it to this table because you have you have to deliver in the surgical room just in case. This is just the way they handled it. And I remember thinking, pick my what? Like, I couldn't I was just deep in this. I was in love. I I loved everything about it, but I just kept thinking I could have so much fun if people would leave me alone. I have a Scorpio moon. I wanted to be alone. They get me over shouting. We get into this surgical room, and they have to strap your arms and legs down. This is nineteen seventy five. And so I am a survivor, sexual abuse survivor, of course. So as the nurse, she's trying to strap down my legs and strap down my arms, and I'm just pleading, please please don't please don't strap my arms down. Please don't. And baby coming, and she said, whisper it in my ear. I'm so sorry, but I have to. I won't make it tight. If you promise me that you won't touch anything, you won't move or touch anything, then I I won't make it tight. And, and so there I am, my legs up in these stirrups all tied down, my arms tied down. I'm cramping my head to see this child. She just coming so fast. They still do episiotomy, first baby, my mother. So they do episiotomy anyway because it's just what they do. And I'm just in love. I I love everything. Afterwards, I walked to my room, which they didn't allow. I said, I can do it. I can walk myself. They said, okay. We're gonna let her. And we did rooming in. It was the only baby in the hospital they did rooming in because I wanted to breastfeed. All the other people were bottle feeding. And they did studying things, documenting and studying and studying. And, so papa asked me, little one, what did you feel? And I said, well, I I felt like I felt like the biggest thunderstorm. I felt like a Midwest thunderstorm and lightning and all of the big power and that it just chose me. It just decided to choose me, all the power of the universe, and move through me. And I felt like someone hitched a team of horses to either side of my hips and told them to giddy up, like, two different ways, pulling me apart. And I felt like all of the Niagara Falls, like, all of the Russian power just moving through me. And because of that, when I got pregnant with my second daughter, I I said to myself, well, not not even pregnant yet. Like, leaving that experience, I said to myself, there has to be a better way to have a baby than this. It's too much fun. It's too big. It's too amazing. My grandparents got to do this their way. There has to be a better way. And, of course, I chose home birth. So second baby, I was just midwife with a midwife, underground midwife, and it's a big story too. I went to back we had back in the day, so that's now nineteen seventy eight. Everything's still illegal, everything underground. We would, like, go to a doctor for who knows what and then but then we just wouldn't show up. We've just birthed at home.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 3
And the midwife would, park at someone's house and then different car, take her to a different house, and then she would walk over and all this, you know, underground stuff that we had to do at the time. So this baby, her water broke and then four days later so no contractions again. Water break, no contractions. Day after day, and people worried and scared, upset, and father of my children, like, why can't you be normal? I cannot be normal. And I remember some of the families saying we're gonna call the sheriff. And so I just decided day two or three, just take phones off the hook, lock the door. I'm like, okay. Nobody can get to me. I'm just gonna stay home. And I nursed my toddler. And finally, on day four, the contraction started with nursing my toddler and just less than two hours later, baby born, at one in the morning. And that time, I laid on my side and put my leg over the neck of, the father of my children, and he caught that baby.
Speaker 2
Like, with Did the midwife make it?
Speaker 3
She stayed she was in my home, and she stayed outside the door
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Because that was our plan. She's like, you're gonna birth like a rock star. You're gonna do just fine. I'll just be here to clean up and do all the things. So she just stayed outside the door, and so I was in my bedroom with on my side, moonlight. We didn't have any light. Opposite. Right?
Speaker 2
Completely false.
Speaker 3
My leg's free, except I had my leg over the neck of my because he was gonna catch, but he was also holding my leg up. And he said, well, I can't I I can't hold your leg up and catch a baby. So I said, well, bend your neck down. And so I just threw my leg over his neck, and I said, now your hands are free. Okay. So we catch a baby. And then I said to myself, there's got to be a better way to have a baby than this because I'm having so much fun. And these people, they're they're bothering me. They're in the way. Still only one person and a person on the outside, still too many for me. So next baby. I'm still nursing now I'm nursing two babies, plus I'm going to have another baby in nineteen eighty. And this baby, big long story, beautiful story, but I have her on a beanbag. I had a custom beanbag made so that I could wiggle my butt any position I want, catch my own baby. This was my plan. I'm just gonna catch my own baby, and that's what I did. I just it's a beautiful story and just like everybody's story. Beautiful story, but I caught her myself. And when I you know, of course, this time, she was born in a thunderstorm, nine in the morning, daylight coming in, but big clashes of thunder and light like a Midwest. And she is a Leo with five planets in Leo and a moon in Leo. She is a Leo. And I just held her, you know, like, silent. Everybody be quiet. And I slid my hand under, you know, to feel is she she bear, little she cub. Alright. So third daughter. And I was just absolutely in love and delighted because I said to myself, so this is how I have a baby. Mhmm. Yep. That's my three stories.
Speaker 2
And so at what point after I'm assuming after your third daughter, do you yourself devote your life to birth work?
Speaker 3
Okay. No. It didn't work like that. So this is back in the day and underground. So it was long before my third daughter.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 3
I had actually, been in medical school some years before that.
Speaker 2
That's a funny image.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So interested in anatomy and Sure. Anthropology and how, how health and bodies work. Yeah. I I'm fascinated by all of this stuff. So anyway, and of course, I gave that up and quit that because I became mother, and this was even more powerful. So the power of women is fascinating to me. And after I had my first home birth, then friends and family, my best friend in all the world, she was pregnant, having babies. People all around us having babies at that time. Right? And so because I, loved birth and be I mean, loved birth like, I loved birthing. I loved birth. And remember, then it started clicking in my mind. Oh, I was born in power. In nineteen fifty three, when no baby is born naturally, I was born naturally. Mother had nothing because she was dying of tuberculosis. So I was not born like all my peers in nineteen fifty three and starts occurring to me. Oh, this has been put in me by the great mother, this this joy, this this ability to support, to to do it and to support others who want to do it. So my best friend in all the world, she was having her babies, and, we're like twins. She's, like, six two, and her babies are, like, twelve pounds. And, so I was helping her have her babies, and we used to make jokes and walk down the street and see women that were pregnant, and they looked like shit. You know? Sorry. But, yeah, they did. They they looked terrible, swollen and pimply and and miserable. And and we would sort of laugh and say, ah, they're probably under the care of a board certified obstetrician, somebody who knows all about having babies. And we were all underground. So that's kind of how my work with midwifery began is helping, my friends and and family that I loved and knew. It was birth work became more I did up an apprenticeship with my beloved mentor because what happened is people started calling me that I didn't know. Right. And that was a game changer for me. Sure. Working with people I knew, it was it was what the village does. Yeah. But then working with people I didn't know, wow. That was a big deal.
Speaker 2
So what was the status of midwifery? This is in the seventies, right, when you had your
Speaker 3
eighties, nineties.
Speaker 2
So give us a little snapshot of what midwifery looked like in the seventies into the eighties, if you would.
Speaker 3
Well, it would depend on who you are. So if you were a certified nurse midwife working in a hospital, it looked like that. You know, they followed the protocol. Of course, it would change. They would work really hard, tirelessly. Actually, I admire them in their hospitals to try to get, you know, better situation for themselves and for their mothers. Then there were a few nurse midwives who would be fortunate enough, like doctor Duhart in the Saint Louis area, who would sign a protocol, and they were able to help, at home births often for, like, Mennonite communities or, orthodox Jewish or various different communities really devoted to home, and then they were a safer legal option. So everybody else underground. I was underground. And I was arrested in nineteen ninety three, so we were still underground in the nineties.
Speaker 2
So in licensure and and CPMs and all of that rolled out in the eighties. Right?
Speaker 3
Yes. So I was a part of all of this big we were big visionaries at the time. So I was president of the Missouri Midwives Association, and we came up with you know, we we did all the things. We we we tried to we didn't try, we did, organize ourselves and educate each other and share ideas and and of course each state in back in that time was starting to have their ground swell, ground movement. And then, MANA, Midwives Association of North America, oh my gosh, Ruth Walsh, all of the great ones. Love you, Ruth, whoever you are. We put together an exam, like, outside of the, outside of the structure of it all. You know, we just organized ourselves. That all progressed and progressed, and people tried to go to capitals. We did that, and and then the national group created a certification process. It was a big long experience all through the late eighties and nineties coming up. Anne Fry, hi, everybody. Working tirelessly to try to create, something that would preserve what we experienced as simple and sacred and yet responsible. We'll say responsible. Because like I said, I felt it myself. Helping your own people is very different than crossing that border, crossing that line of helping someone you don't know.
Speaker 2
Yeah. What happens for you maybe it gets to nineteen ninety three first, but, you know, you you I first came to know of you through your epic letter to Norm. Right? That
Speaker 3
that Yes. This is decades later, of course.
Speaker 2
When was that?
Speaker 3
When was what? The When was that letter? Oh, that would have been oh my gosh. Probably early twenties. Like, we're already into the two thousand.
Speaker 2
Early two thousands. Right?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Early early two thousands.
Speaker 2
Okay. So then
Speaker 3
All the work oh, so much work. Right. It was worth it. It was worth it. The the first application department was in my cottage in the woods. We're unarmed.
Speaker 2
So you to summarize and correct me if I have this wrong, but you were working very hard for a very long time with many, many, many other midwives to this might not be the right word, but to legitimize and organize and educate. And so does that imply that you were four and on the track of the CPM licensure certification route?
Speaker 3
Absolutely. So I was apprenticeship trained, and the and the certification, the whole the whole impetus for it was that it would preserve apprenticeship trained midwives. So it only was then in the middle of all that. Like, the world just exploded. Right? I mean, you know it from having a cell phone. Like, it didn't exist. So not only technology, but then make accredited schools started or not even accredited yet. Accredited yet. Schools started being born and, then make accredited schools being born. And all of a sudden, what was going to preserve apprenticeship training, needed to preserve all flows of kinds of midwives. And this is inevitable. Right? We just didn't see it. It's inevitable that you you you are doing something that is preserving a counterpart, and then that gets usurped. Robbie Davis Floyd books all documented very well, the whole history of of what happened. And it was in Miami, Florida, I can't remember the year now, where where we were going to, like, require for the certification pit and IVs and blah blah blah. And I was the one that blocked it. And it was this big problem, this horrible problem. Forty of us, we'd come so far, and people were pleading. And I was just I was seen as a boulder and a rock, but I didn't feel that way. I'm not that tall. Like, I just felt like the answer is no. Like, it's
Speaker 2
just It's going off the rails.
Speaker 3
It's just no. It can't be yes. It's no. None of it's even legal in the state I represent. I was representing Missouri, of course, and all of my hundreds of underground midwives who who don't use that, who couldn't use that, who wouldn't use that. I'm like, it's a no. And they're like, how can we make it a yes for you? Like, what would it take? And, like, I'm Cherokee. Like, we don't compromise. Like, it it it if something can be, you pass around the talking stick, if if it can be, found a way where it's a yes for all people, then you move forward. But if it's a no, it's a no. It was a no. It was a clear no. It was not even, possible. No. It was a firm no. And out of that grew the job analysis. And in the first job analysis that went across, North America, including Canada but US, it came back that the midwives at that time said no. So I was supported and backed up. By the time another job analysis happened, graduates had happened, life moves on and it became a yes. And so more and more of these, more what I felt was medical skills, they did not feel they were medical skills. Okay? That's that's how things get redefined and all of that. And so the letter you're referring to came much, much later Yeah. When there was no wiggle room
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
For, those of us who still did things, in the time tested wisdom ways. There there was no wiggle room.
Speaker 2
So up until the Miami event, did you was that the turning point for you where you saw where this was heading, or did you see it before?
Speaker 3
Neither. I think it saw I saw it later. I I was hopeful. And when the job analysis came back and most of those midwives, of course, were were my age at the time, and it came back as, like, no. We need to keep this apprenticeship based primarily. We're just tolerating these, graduates. We but but we aged out or we didn't age out. Still working, of course, but but the groundswell changed. And, I don't know that I underestimated it, but I I think I still believed or had the vision that, okay. We started it. We're the most. Okay. We're becoming the minority, but there's still a place for us Mhmm. Clearly. It it's my Cherokee way, I think. Elders, we don't we don't age out the elders. We the elders are are our wisdom. It just it just didn't work that way in mainstream, but, oh, well.
Speaker 2
So so let's go back to nineteen ninety three for a moment. You said that you got arrested in nineteen ninety three. What happened?
Speaker 3
I was. Let's see. So, I'm a Missouri midwife, but the family in the Kansas City area, the border between Kansas and Missouri, it it just right there in the metropolitan area. So, I the family actually lived across the border in Kansas, but it's not like it was a big distance. It just they just did. That's just how they resided. And Kansas was a gray state. So Missouri, completely illegal, but Kansas was a gray state. Okay. Anyway and this it was a first time mother and and, Kathy. I I shouldn't use her I won't use her last name, but I so I honor their family. So their baby, toward the end was breach. And I won't go into the details of their story. That that is not fair or right. But though it is, you know, documented because it was
Speaker 2
a Right.
Speaker 3
Trial. So the the baby was, breach, and my apprentice at the time had had a breech birth first time mother. And so this influenced quite a bit her confidence and the mother's confidence that this baby could just be born easily breech. It it was not easy birth, and the baby was born stillborn. At that time so we transported the baby with me doing CPR and got to the hospital, and it was surrounded immediately by law enforcement. And the only thing I was on record for at that time was planned home birth, no heart tones at birth. So from that early January until the jury trial in October, that was the only quote that they had. My attorney, JR Hobbs, JR, if you're out there or your children or your grandchildren, he's a living saint. It is a big story. Scary story, terribly scary story, because I had three minor children at the time. And so, I don't hardly know where to begin. The the police confiscated my car and, you know, surrounded the house and
Speaker 2
So when you were at the hospital with the baby and then you went home?
Speaker 3
I did not I I did not go home, but the other midwife and I, we waited. We went I guess, we waited in the parking lot eager to see the mother because she had gone by different car. I I I and the father with me doing CPR had arrived at the hospital. Mother arrived in a different car with a different midwife. And so we we waited to get to speak to the mother, see the mother, be confirmed that baby had still had no heart tones and from there it just became this, this experience if anyone has ever had to go through that. So I was arrested on February twelfth. My father, crossed over on February fifth. All of this has significance for the Cherokee. For example, so baby, we we, baby was born January twenty fourth. And from that day, I was, talking with my attorney who who I didn't even know. Some my I have a family member who was an attorney, but not what do you call it? Criminal attorney. He had this friend in Kansas City who was criminal attorney, JR Hobbs, a living saint, and he had called me and said, are you safe? Do you have something to drink? Can you trust me? And that began a lifelong to this day beautiful relationship. I love law. Of course, I love law because it's mental. I love learning things, and he he taught me to say nothing. He said it's critical that you practice in front of a mirror. Just practice. My name is this, my attorney's name is this, his number is this. We have every intention of cooperating. And so as when I would walk out my door, the press would be at the door with their cameras and their video machines, their mics, and bombarding me with questions. Why did you kill the baby? These horrible questions. And I would just calmly say my name is, my attorney's name is, his number is. We have every intention of cooperating. So then my father, he knew about it, but we didn't tell mother. And then, when when my grandfather I don't know how to say it all. My my uncles, people had died. They my grandfather really felt that the government had taken his children and so we, his grandchildren, when we sat on his lap, he would have us look in the in the eye and he would say, if someone asks you if you're an Indian, tell them no. Always say no. So it was this big concern that the government would take the children. And and you see, I'm trying to show the dots. I was a little child born, and my grandparents are afraid the government's gonna take their child. It just this theme. I'd I wasn't aware of it, but papa then, he knew I was there was this law thing, and he also was afraid government's gonna take my child.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And he he went to the other side. On February fifth, he died of an aneurysm, a great loss to our people, a thousand people at his funeral. I needed to go to the funeral, of course, and JR said you cannot go out of the county. They will they will immediately take you as, like, trying to run away. I said, JR, I must go. I must go to the funeral. And so we made up this plan. It wasn't before cell phones. So I would stop every maybe every twenty miles or so and get on a pay phone and call JR and say, I am at this point. I am going to my father's funeral. And then I would stop again. I'm at this point. I'm going to my father's funeral. So that we had recorded my intention why I was crossing the county lines. And then there I was. So at I made it to the funeral. I made it all the way back home. My sister, calm spirit, knew. My mother did not know. Here she lost her husband and everybody. I made it back home and then by the twelfth of February, they they put out a warrant for my arrest. So when I went to be arrested, JR said, you must always do what they tell you no matter what they do to you. It doesn't matter. You must cooperate. So we were booked. I was for, manslaughter. They were awaiting the autopsy. And so I was booked for, like, nine different counts of different things including manslaughter. And this is important part. I want to acknowledge this woman. She was a black woman. Sorry to be so much in my story, but story is what holds the truth of a people. And so I was arrested, and and I had to go in to this you know, place and leave everybody I knew behind. JR said, promise me no matter what they do, you must cooperate because I can I can do something about it if you cooperate? But if you if you show any resistance, they have all the power. You I can do nothing. You must cooperate.
Speaker 2
Terrifying.
Speaker 3
So so we did the booking. I had every intention of cooperating, of course, but we did the booking, then we have to be, stripped. We have to be checked. We have to be put on these other clothes. We have to keep our back against the wall. We cannot go pee. We cannot have a drink. We cannot speak. So then they put me in this tiny cell. It was called a holding cell, and it was interesting because the roof, it was glass. And above the roof was police station. And in the cell, I it was tiny holding cell. It had one tiny window that I could look, out, horizontally, and then people on the top of the ceiling was really a floor of the police, and they could look down and see me. And then they put two men in the same in the same cell. I was so scared. And I just kept looking out the I had hugged hugged the wall and looked out this window, and I began this mantra. I I said to myself, I will be free again. I will walk in the creek again. I will feel the thunderstorm again. And, and then I could hear the must have been chief of police. He was in the in in the build the room up above me, and he shouted, what are you doing with those with the get those men out of the cell. We lose we lose our case. Like, there cannot be the men and get the men out of that hole. And he said, is that her? She's just it it could not be her because I was being booked as murderer. Right. You know? And he's like he didn't say that, but he was just like, are you sure that's her? And then
Speaker 2
That's like tiny little fairy praying
Speaker 3
in the corner. Person. So they get the men out and they take me out, and then they handcuff me, handcuff us to and me to this black woman and another person. I don't know. And they care make us go down this big hallway, but we have to stop. And our back the lady, the police officer, she's shouting at us back against the wall. Back against the wall. And so I'll have my back as complete I need to go pee. I need to drink some bad. None of them are midwives, clearly. But this black woman, she's so angry. Oh. And she's so defiant and she's yanking my arm. And she's and the police officer, she's in her face shouting at her Woah. And she's shouting back. She's so angry.
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 3
And I just let her yank my arm. I just keep my eyes straight ahead because the police lady, she said, back against the wall. And no, no speaking. You know? Shut shut up. No speaking. Eyes straight ahead. So I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing. Eyes straight ahead. Back against the wall. I'm not speaking. This black lady, I feel her my sister. She had just yanking, and I let her yank my arm. And it was my it was our communication. I was a white woman to her, even though I'm a little bit reddish, and she was a black woman. I could see out of the corner of my eye, and I felt she's my sister. She's we're in this together. It's us. She and I. And I let her just yank my arm until finally she can see, she can feel I'm not pulling back away from her. And then they file us into the courtroom, and the judge, he's name naming the bond for everybody, and my bond is terrible. It does hundred thousands of dollars. And then other people, they were like, repeat this and that. Theirs was not so bad, but mine was just so much. And I remembered that when I went in, my sister had, said to JR, my sister, calm spirit, she had said to JR, it doesn't matter what the bond is. We're getting it.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And JR said, absolutely. It doesn't matter what it is. We're getting it. I did not know what even this bail and bond and whatever. So then they take us back, but they put me in a cell and it just pure concrete. Concrete with a metal toilet and a metal bed, but nothing on it, and then they turn the lights out. So then there I am. I'm just in this room, black, completely black. I don't think they meant to turn the lights out, but they did. It was just black. I was trying to okay. The toilet was over there. I'm not good. I'm just close by the door and not moving. Totally. I'm keeping my mantra going. I will walk in the creek again. I will walk away free. I will walk and my feet in the creek. I will sing the songs again. And I don't know how long it was because you lose track of time. But at some point, the door opens and a police officer, she takes me. You know? I'm handcuffed, and she walks me down a long, long, long, long, long, long hall. And then the door opens, and there's JR and my sister and life. And JR said, you're free. Come come with me. I was not free from my charges, but I was free out on bail and bond. So that was February, and then it was then, we could not negotiate anything. They only wanted me in jail. And so it was either jail or I had to go to a jury trial.
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 3
That was a jury trial, and that was then didn't come until October. So from February to October, I, sang the song. Please wait for a moment with me. Just like a tree that's planted by the waters, I shall not be moved. We shall not be, we shall not be moved. We shall not be, we shall not be moved. Just like a tree that's planted by the waters. We shall not be moved. So from February to October, awaiting the jury trial, I just walked bare in the creek, let the waters run over me, and sing this song. I knew when I got to the trial that I was not the one on trial. I knew it was women on trial. I knew it was midwifery on trial, and I just let the voice of the great women from before me come up through my feet because it went five day, and we were losing. And end of the fifth day, and JR said, there's no way around it. We're gonna have to put you on on the stand, and it always means we're losing. Like, to put the person that's on trial on the stand, you're losing. You must be so strong. You must stay strong with me. And then it was a six hour, interrogation, and that is my story. I must say I've been recording the book, The Power of Women for audio because people keep asking, Cesar, will you make it audio? So I'm in the middle of trying to do this. But can you hear my voice? It just not professional. It's gonna be me.
Speaker 2
It's gonna be perfect. But wait. Don't you can't end it there. Six hours of interrogation, and then what happens?
Speaker 3
Well, okay. This is interesting. So four days, you know, various people testifying this and that. And,
Speaker 2
I premise sorry to interrupt you. The premise is you are an illegal midwife who shouldn't have attended this birth, and it's your fault the baby died. Right?
Speaker 3
Correct. Correct. So lot lot of different, what what do you call them? It counts. Uh-huh. But what was practicing, Fortunately, the the baby the autopsy for the baby is that the baby was, not alive and that the oxygen that I put in the baby's lungs, which I did correctly, did not infiltrate into the tissue of the baby. It was only in the lungs. So they couldn't you you cannot charge someone for killing someone who's already dead. Right. So so, fortunately, that charge got dropped, and but the other nine I think eight or nine charges they held. So interestingly, the the prosecution, I, so the the two days before that, or the night before that the night before that, JR had me practice. So it for a long time, he he pretended I was on the stand and he would throw a question at me. And he would say, you you must answer honestly. Even if it makes you look so bad, don't worry about it. You must answer honestly because if you don't, they will circle back around and they will have you. They they will know how to find what is not on.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Even if it looks terrible, you must say the truth. If you say the truth, keep saying the truth. It's our only hope, and and I cannot help you that much. I cannot, what do you call it? When they interrupt and say not not a fair question, he said, I cannot say that very much because it make it look like I'm trying to protect you. You you must be it yourself. There you are going to be able to handle this. Usually, the people break down, and you you must do it. You must do it. So we practiced, and he threw horrible questions at me. So then there I was with the prosecution. They finally provided me my chart because they confiscated all my charts. Of course, they took my car and the charts and everything. And so for the first time, I'm getting to see the chart again, but and the prosecution, they asked me a thousand questions, but it became it became fascinating for me. I felt finally free to speak because I hadn't spoken anything since January when I said planned home birth, no heart tones at birth was the only thing that had in all the papers being published in Kansas City Star and this and that. It's all ahead of a quote from me. So finally, I'm I'm able to use my voice. Of course, I don't say anything except briefly he asked me a question. I say yes or no. JR said, don't add anything. Don't defend yourself. Stay with his question. So I imagined myself in the creek, and here's the water. It's rushing at me, and then I'm doing what I can with it, throw it over my head, and get ready for next question. Don't think about the answer. Don't think about his question. And, of course, they were all horrible. They were so horrible questions. But what I began to realize is I was there. I knew what happened. He was trying to put together a story. Mhmm. He was trying to put together a a picture, and it was inaccurate. Mhmm. It was not an accurate picture. I was the one that was there. I knew what happened. So when he would say something and it was inaccurate, I could just say, no, sir. And I never looked I looked at him. He asked me a question. I looked at the jury and gave the answer because it occurred to me, he's nobody.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
It was a twelve person jury, and it was the jury that was going to make the decision about me. And so I just like, do you see how I'm trying to put things together? Just like the doctor who said, I don't I'm gonna give you a fifty fifty chance. Maybe you can have your baby. And I thought, well, he doesn't know anything. I felt the same way about this prosecutor. He's nobody. The jury is who's going to decide about me. I'm going to face them and to look at them and give them my answer so that they see me and know I'm in relationship with you. All the while, I was aware. I'm kind of short, so I had to put myself on the edge of the chair in this box and put my feet on the floor and it was in the third floor up so I put my feet down through the second floor down through the first floor down until I could feel the ground and I imagined the footsteps of the women from the dawn of eve from all the women that had walked on the path, that had helped other women, that had helped at birth, and all the women still walking on the earth. I imagined their voice coming up through my feet and through me and through my voice because it was clear to me when I saw the judge and the jury and the courtroom full and the reporters and the video and that it was women that were on trial, that it wasn't me on trial. Well, it was me. It was them through me, like days of old. No big difference, really. And so that's why I looked at the jury. So then he said, you did this. And I would say, no, sir. And then he would say, but you did this. Like, for example, he said, you took eight hundred dollars of their money, and all you gave them was a dead baby. And so I would say, yes, sir. I took eight hundred dollars, and then I looked at my chart, and I counted up all the prenatals and how long we were at the labor and this and that. And I said and what I gave them was this, and I grieve their dead baby with them. And but I look at the jury to tell tell them this. So on and on until finally, he said, and when the baby was born, you did this and this and this, but it wasn't true. What I did was and and they had a baby. So I I took the baby and I just did my hand actions, what I did with this breech baby. It was exactly the same actions, they called, they called an obstetrician, a board certified obstetrician with this big long, long, long, long list of importance. And they said, how should she have handled to deliver this breech baby? And they were exactly same actions that he said. So it was, not the the final thing or anything, but it was this growing this growing place where the prosecutor was on more and more shaky ground as he tried to come up with another question, another question, six hours of questions. And then it was, finished. Several more witnesses adjourned. We go out to wait for the, verdict, they called it verdict. We dispersed. The whole courtroom dispersed. We go to launch some or not launch a coffee shop. And right away, the judge is calling everybody back. And so law enforcement running through the streets saying, get back. They have a verdict. And JR was out of his mind. He's like, oh my god. Only bad verdict comes right away.
Speaker 2
Can you remember that moment?
Speaker 3
Of course.
Speaker 2
I mean, are you, like, shitting yourself? Like, the the are you how what is that moment like when you are about to hear the verdict of potentially being jailed the rest of your life?
Speaker 3
It's what's going through my mind are my three children. I have three minor children.
Speaker 0
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And so, fortunately, my sister and I, we had we had figured out our plan, what to do with my children, because this is my biggest things on my mind. And and JR, he prepared me. He said, they're going to take you immediately. I I cannot. There's no nothing I can do about that. I will I already have it written up. I will apply for a appeal. We we work with appeal, and this is it it he was a beautiful mid legal midwife. He prepared me completely. If it goes this way, this is what is going to happen, and this is what I'm going to do. And I I will not abandon you. God. Of course, his his charge his, charges were five hundred dollars an hour. And I I remember when I found that out, this was back in February or so. I said, oh, well, when I need to speak to you, forgive me for not inquiring about your health or your children or your family. They must do we must just get right straight to the point. That's funny. Yes. That that is the way we must handle it. But so in that moment, I was just shaking, but a little bit just probably shock, And I just was studying the eyes of the jury because I had been studying them, and I was calm in my mind knowing, okay. My sister's going to take we had our plan for my children. They were in the courtroom. Of course, courtroom filled with all my people and them just crying. Everybody was wishing they could do something to but, yeah, we stood up. The judge said, you must stand. We did. JR was holding my hand so tight. Actually, that's not true. Now I remember. I can feel it in my body. He put his hand around my waist and holding my hand, just holding me up for fear I would just be shaken, not stand straight and tall, but I did. And then the man main person of the jury, of course, the jury also all these many months, they had been bombarded by the press asking them questions and this and that. But, anyway, this is what they said. We find her not guilty. And that sound, not guilty. I felt like it was an echo, like, not guilty. I think all the people all behind me and everybody else and JR was crying. I was crying. Of course, not guilty. That that's what was echoing, not guilty. It meant I don't know what it all it meant I'm gonna get to keep my children. I I'm gonna go home with my children. That's what it meant. I've I've wondered about, you know, the family, how they felt. I wondered believe it or not, I wondered why the prosecution didn't come over and say he was sorry. I asked JR why he doesn't tell us he's sorry because it's not guilty. And we we went through all this, and JR said they never say they're sorry. They just they don't do that. And I'm like, well, I'm sorry for him because he he he's supposed to be representing justice. Like, he should be happy if justice is served. This is twelve people that took out all their time. So then they came to me, this jury, not all of them, but most of them, they came and they said to me, they never had anyone look at them. This was really moving for me that they that they too were people, and they felt the weight of this decision that they were having to make. I I should stop talking now. I wanna think about, the family and, everything that came after that. Of course, I didn't stop, but but it's a big deal. Everybody out there, if you're helping another mother, we had to ask ourselves before then and after then then would I go to jail for this family? It was one of our questions. Would I go to jail for this mother and baby? And, yeah, it it just, shouldn't shouldn't be that way, but it's been that way from the beginning that it's a big deal. And so the family, the mother, me, myself, when I was a mother, it's our responsibility also to ask how can I protect the people that are helping me? It's my responsibility to birth my child. And if they're willing to put cloth on my head or wash the dishes or because they everybody was arrested in this birth. Even the people that were just cleaning up, everybody was arrested. So we have it's one of my vows. I have seven vows, and one of them is, to to preserve sacred birth, simple and sacred birth, and to protect the midwives who's who serve them.
Speaker 2
What was the dynamic with the family?
Speaker 3
May I take a drink now? I I feel like I need a drink.
Speaker 2
Take your time.
Speaker 3
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2
It's a big story.
Speaker 3
Yes. It's a big story. It was made into a play in Chicago one time. And, the family, it's very sad. Oh, I I don't know how they are now. I've tossed in a thousand prayers in the in the fire circles. They went on to have a beautiful, healthy, baby. But what I learned is that, one of the one of the parents, their mother was a a worker, like secretary worker for the prosecution for the prosecuting attorney. And it did change. Like, usually, I would ask a mother what she does and father, what does he do? But now I did learn how to ask, wow. What does everybody in your family do? Because always with the mothers, of course, like, if the if the mother of the mother is like an obstetrician or, high intellectual person, well, we we know that those mothers are at risk. They they they have a bigger challenge birthing. It is, documented. It's it's just a fact. You have to overcome this kind of early infiltration into the female psyche to to free yourself, to find your instincts. But, yeah, I feel the family, grieving and hurting, we we were not allowed to to have connection. Other other families where a baby has been lost or even a mother, I have had beautiful perfect connection with those families and been able to go through the grieving together and post postpartum and heal and all the things that are best for a village for sure, but not this family.
Speaker 2
You've supported a family where the mother has died?
Speaker 3
Yes. I
Speaker 2
have. My god. Like, in birth?
Speaker 3
Yes. It's true. Yeah. It's heartbreaking. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I don't think you drank your water yet.
Speaker 3
Yes. Thank you.
Speaker 2
Wow. I've never heard of that.
Speaker 3
Maternal loss.
Speaker 2
Outside of the system in America of recent times.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I I honor I honor it's the these situations are, they're deeply physical, of course, but they they also are deeply cultural or, and spiritual. So in Mexico, it's it's not unusual at all to to lose a mother.
Speaker 2
That's where this happened?
Speaker 3
Both it's been in America and in in Mexico and in other countries. It's, they they're usually very deep reasons. And to lose a mother, so maternal loss, I I if actually, had someone write me recently and ask me for my risk assessment for maternal loss because she said, I am worried about it for myself. I have too many of the risk factors, and so I I honor that she's being aware of this. I wish we would expand. So we have expanded, infant mortality to really include more than just first, you know, few days of life. And same for maternal loss. It can be it can be a heartbreaking reality when a woman doesn't have the culture, the community around her. And this should never happen for home. Right? Right. But it's a a different problem. We have we have too many mothers that are that have, what I always say is an amazing home birth, but I have seen just amazing, beautiful home births unravel in the first few days because postpartum does not have the support of the village. Totally. So this can happen too. Yeah. We must be very strong people. We need to talk about something.
Speaker 2
But you go on to keep midwifing.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. I I certainly
Speaker 2
can. I mean, this this whole you have to be willing to go to jail for a family is like but how how could you ever be willing while you have children?
Speaker 3
Well, you don't have to be willing, but it's important to ask yourself just like a mother, should ask herself, what is the worst thing that could happen in my labor and birth? What is the worst thing? Because if you are able to be honest with yourself, what is the worst thing? Then you can function you can work with anything else.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Like but you need your you need your wits about you. Or I will often ask people, do you have a faith that serves you? I I don't care what faith it is, but does it serve you? What's the hardest, most difficult thing you've dealt with?
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Because you're getting ready to be a parent.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
I've lived long enough. I I I'm still a whippersnapper. I'm only in my seventies, but but, you know, women bury an eighteen month old. They bury a four year old. They bury a twenty one year old. You're getting ready to be a mother on the the biggest path
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
The most sacred path. So, yes, we want our babies to breathe at birth, and it's a happy moment. But there's no guarantee. Like, we want the river to flow as it should where the elders walk on first, but it doesn't always work that way. Sometimes river flows other direction and break our hearts in half. We need we need a community. We need a faith that serves us. So that's why if I some of the youngest, women that I've helped I love helping teenagers. I'm amazed some of them are the strongest. Like, they they've already lived through a lot. Mhmm. And they birth they birth incredibly. So it's yeah. I don't know. It it but if someone tells me or for example, one time I had a father ask me, well, who do I sue if something goes wrong?
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 3
And I said, well, not me and not anybody that I know. Like, not
Speaker 2
like to fully exempt myself.
Speaker 3
I'm not referring you to anyone. And I felt terrible for the woman because
Speaker 2
Did you serve them? No. No.
Speaker 3
Yeah. No. I said, not me. Yeah. No. And no and no one that I know. Like, I'm not and I felt terrible for the woman because she it it was unfortunate that that that's who she was partnered with.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But you so are you am I willing to suffer the the extremes for this woman? You better be because it could happen. Most of the time, it doesn't. Most of the time, it's just it's just this my my births. Right? That's I love I love birth. It's, you know, first breaths are are it's where a woman finds her power. She's meant to find it there, and she does find it there. It's it should be so protected so that that moment is, when I'm in with elder women and I ask them about their births, it's the one thing they always remember even if they were asleep and can't remember. Like, that's they could have done a thousand things in this world. But to talk about their children, okay. Now you have their attention.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh,
Speaker 3
yeah. I had in Mexico, they'll say, oh, God gave me five and and took four. God gave me nine and took four. Like, I have five children left. Whatever. Like, it's it it's incredible. I love being a part of it, but to be a part of it, if you stay with it, you must also be a part of sacred last breaths.
Speaker 2
Of course.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So what might you say about you said at the beginning. I don't know if we're recording already, but you said that you maybe I don't remember how you phrased it, but you love boundaries or you're really good at boundaries. And and what would you say to the to the newer birth workers who haven't, you know, walked in in such depth yet? What guidance or wisdom do you have around choosing the families you serve and and and to practice boundaries? You know, obviously, something that we see all the time is the hero, you know, dynamic and and women feeling bad for women. And so then extending beyond their red flags or their boundaries. Yeah. What might you say?
Speaker 3
Let's see. What everyone has to be true to themselves, but I'll just say for me, I do a six hour interview. So that's just a given, and I don't decide then. And I don't ask them to decide then. Mhmm. Like, I'm gonna just we're gonna have tea. We're gonna talk. I'm gonna find out all kinds of things about them, and that's if I don't know them. Right? Which is a it's a whole game changer to not know people. And by know them, I don't mean you met them last week. I mean, know them. They've been a part of your community, your your, so I I do a long or, you know, six hour interview, then I say, let's let's go home, see if we have more questions, more thought, or if or if it's a no right away, then no is easy. But even if it's a yes, it's like, oh, like, think about it. I remember with Lou Anne Brown, my very first person that I helped that I didn't know, and it was she had nine babies, so that's a good way to start. Make sure you're with people who've had babies before and they've done a great you know, they've they've they've got some life under them. But I remember trying to talk her out of it like, Lou Anne, I am not a little old granny midwife. Dada dada dada. And, I remember her looking at me and saying, well, how are you gonna be one if you don't get started? Yeah. So, you know, like so making sure that you're helping people that have some experience if you don't have very much. If you, make sure you have a list of the questions that you know are important to you. Listen to what they say. Don't try to make it candy coated or talk them out of it, make it prettier somehow. Like, listen. People tell you their truth. They just do. They tell you the truth. And then at any point, certainly before the first hundred births or so, make sure you consult. Like, talk talk it over with somebody else that's got some experience and tell them how how what's going on, what you're thinking, and then listen listen to them. It it should the excitement should be growing and rising and a sense of extreme independence and responsibility. Do they have that in other areas of their life? And for me, it's natural and instinctual. Can they squat and pee, like, outside? Or is that just, like, a little too much? It's like, wow. Okay. Well, you're gonna squat and pee. You're gonna do a whole lot more than squat and pee. Like, I spend time having lunch with them. Our prenatals, we walk. I don't know. I I would say always consult. Always have a a somebody further than you that you are talking things over with, and have fun. Bring some knowledge and skills to it, and keep learning.
Speaker 2
So tell me about the the part of you, of your spirit, that after this almost year, you know, being arrested and being on trial and facing manslaughter charges and just the bigness of that and that the the potential reality of that should the sentence have gone the other way. Tell me about the part of you that stays on the path of birth work and that stays in the game, so to speak. Like, what on earth is that about?
Speaker 3
I don't let's see. What part of me might like, my spirit. Maybe part of it is my so I used to actually think I was a midwife, but I'm not really a midwife. I'm actually a, a a believer in the power of women. And birth is just one of those places Mhmm. Where her power is unequivocal. Like, it's it's just, and so I can figure out a thousand ways to support the right woman in her birth. I can I mean, if she's the right woman for me, like, and I'm the right so there's no one right midwife for all women, but there is a right midwife for every woman? And so if she's the right one for me, hi, Andrea from Nicaragua. I can figure out a way to support her. It might be by phone. It might be with me in a closet. It might be with me with another, midwife. It might there's just a thousand ways you don't have to be in a birth room to be at a birth. Oh, or you might be in a birth room. I I think I've just I I have such a spirit of discernment, and I do have very good boundaries. So for example, if I finally do say yes, like, if she wins my heart, and she's got to win my heart be and this was before this was before the arrest, because we are now and I tell her that we are gonna be in it. Like, I'm gonna know more about you than your husband knows. Like, it I'm gonna be up in your business, and I don't mean, like, checking her all the time. Of course. But what you ate, how you dream, what was your dream, how's the relationship with your mother going? Like, we are in it now. You're gonna be in a river, and now here I am. I'm not gonna be walking along the bank wishing you well. Like, I'm down in the river with you. I'm feeling the current. So if I say yes, I'm not gonna abandon her. I never have yet. Yeah. Like, I'm not if if I say yes, and she might fire me, and I sometimes beg them to. Like, once we get that far and this their life goes haywire or whatever, I'm like, fire me. I can always use more time. Like, I'm good if you if I'm not right for you. But if I've said yes to you, now I'm not gonna abandon you because you are the one that's in a vulnerable position.
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 3
I'm in a vulnerable position for sure, but you're never gonna feel that. You're never gonna know it like I know it. Of course, you'll know my kids and my life and this and that. They're all raised now. But but a woman every every person's thoughts revolve primarily around themselves. And the more that she is deep in her journey and her baby is moving and maybe she finds out her friend's baby died or maybe, like, in our situation in the Mennonite community when we lost Ellen, a maternal loss, oh my god, for, like, a year and a half, every single mother was sure she was gonna die. Right? It's it's it's it's normal. It's common. We share a cosmic consciousness together. And all of us were, like, on our knees, like, please, no more of this. Baby after baby that's pink, mother after after mother that's nursing. It's like, oh, okay. This feels so much better. But I'm I have good boundaries. So for example, if I've made an appointment to see you and you don't show up, and I tell them this in the interview, One time, you can do that. One time. I'll I'll assume your car broke down or your dog died or I don't know what. But I've left everything in my world to be available
Speaker 2
to you. Seriously. And
Speaker 3
so if you if you don't show up, do you want me to just not show up when you call in labor? Because I'm just doing something
Speaker 2
else. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Like, don't treat me that way. We we are deep in this serious business that hopefully is gonna have, like, a birthday cake at the end. But one way or the other, if you birth a live baby, then now we are in it because either that live baby is gonna bury you or you're gonna bury it one day. Like, now we are in it. And I just talk like that in the interview. So I have really good boundaries, and and I expect the same thing back. Have I made some mistakes? Horrible ones. Why I have to build a fire and toss them in? Things I wish I'd never said or done or heard or saw. Transports that I'm like, why did I why did we transport? They're doing a shittier job than we would have done if we're just Yeah. So but would I tell another midwife that if she's scared and not sure? I'm like, nope. You gotta you gotta trust yourself. Do the next right thing. And then if you go in and you find out that they did a shittier job than you would have done, if you were there, then then next time you probably will walk two or three steps more. Right. It's how we learn. Walked. Totally. How we learn, and then we build a fire. And we say, oh my god. I I learned that, and I am so sorry. But when you're in the community and the village together, you know, there's a few people that don't cherish you, I guess. I don't know. I have an internal tape that tells me that if they only knew me, they'd adore me. I think the reason I think that is because I adore people. Yeah. I I just do. I I even if you don't like me, I like you. Like, I I just I see the brighter side
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Of you, and I can't help it. It's not like I'm trying to. Yeah. I just, that soul just shines out for me. And so I really, I I do find myself cherished and with a whole world of people to cherish. But, yeah, when it comes to birth and death and their hands and hands, right, they Yeah. Not they cannot be separated. They go together. They're gonna happen one way or the other, both of them. Mhmm. Then, then I just I have a Scorpio moon, and it gets very serious.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So that's me. I have a Leo sun and a Scorpio moon, and you get both if you get me.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm thinking about forgiveness, self forgiveness on this path and how to walk this path for any real length of time and stay, you know, stay on it, keep getting on it, keep learning, keep getting so stripped through the mistakes, and the women keep birthing.
Speaker 3
Well, don't you think you have to know, what your purpose is?
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
So it may be for some people, if we're talking about, birth keepers, it may be that their purpose was for a certain period of time. And then so we know this about our certified nurse midwives, for example. Unless things have changed, they have a life expectancy of about five years. They're in a lot of pressured environment. Oh. And they they can usually only hang with that for a certain period of time, and then they go in to to do something else. And that's that's okay. You bow you bow to your your purpose, but you have to know what your passion and your purpose is. And if that wanes, then you don't have your creative fire burning. You you we need a creative fire. Our soul is just as important as the mother's soul and the baby's soul. And I just I have a lot of passions. I have a lot of passions in life. Football's not one of them, but my gardens and women's circles and, of course, birth, sacred last breaths. Oh my goodness. I chant Vedic Vedic chants. I love yoga. I I have a lot of passions in life, and, I have more energy than there is daylight. So I need all those twenty four hours for sure. But when it comes to birth, if you're a birth keeper, then respect that that that calling and that that passion and that purpose, it it will keep opening the path for you. Mhmm. And and you must have a faith that serves you. I don't know what it is, but if you don't know that you're the daughter of the great mother, whatever you she has a thousand names, then then you're out there trying to do something like you are the great mother. And, god goddess help you because it's a humble it's a humble and it's a powerful place to know that the angels, the ancestors, the great mother, the they're there, Call on them. And it it's not like it's all gonna turn out the way you want it to. It's gonna turn out better.
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's been so much energy this year in my life, in my extended community around loss. And, you know, I'm always trying to wrap my head around the the purse not really my perspective because I am fairly seasoned in these realms and have, you know, worked through you know, I've been in birth work for over twenty years, and so I have known I have known these cycles, I guess you could say, that sometimes move through a community. And I I see, I guess, my what I see is so many women are new to mothering communities. You know, they just had their first baby or they're about to have their first baby, and they're coming into mothering communities, and they're interacting with loss for the first time. And meaning someone in the membership or the community or online or in person or in their circle, you know, whatever, any any any axis of women gathering, a woman will birth a stillborn. And it's it's interesting to to watch how it's just like it's so new to these women. They haven't been around mothers birthing babies that aren't alive yet. You know, they haven't been birth workers for twenty years. They have no reference point for how guaranteed it is, I guess you could say, you know, at some point in a mothering community. Like you said, they're hand in hand and it is way more common. It's a it's a way more normal experience than we're led to believe, I think, in mainstream culture. And so I've just really noticed from where I sit a lot of shock and disorientation, which are normal responses to death also. I mean, I'm not at all trying to say this is weird. I've just noticed a lot of shock and confusion around when death occurs. And because I'm obviously, and as you are as well, in the, you know, sovereign space, in the, you know, outside of the medical system space, people seem very, very quick to blame free birth, blame the mother, blame the midwife, blame the birth keeper. And I think it's rooted in one of the things it's rooted in is a real lack of understanding of of, maybe I could say, how common it is because it's their first time interacting with it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3
It does. But for me, I'm pondering it's bringing up for me the fact that we've lost the bridge. So these young mothers that you're talking about are women, and that doesn't mean they could be forty and have in their first and but they're not meant to not have wise elders. The the the community and the the bridge from, from the sacred ways and the people that walked them and held them and still do are meant to be that, that foundation and that beautiful space that this is happening in like the old forest. So there's that. The the bridge is not there. So they're doing they're handling something alone that was never handled alone before. Second of all, I ponder destiny. So it's just like I said that it's, heartbreaking to, like, transport and see, like, this we could have done this better at home. It's also heartbreaking to see, if I'm if people send me videos of their baby, you know, that's dying die dying and died, is a stillborn. It's heartbreaking to see that there are some things that that skillfully could have been done. Totally. So it it what I ponder is destiny because we don't have control over life and death. This is not true. So I wanna add one I wanna come back to destiny, but the other thing is normal. Like you mentioned, this shock and whatever is normal, but it's also normal to to be in cultures where death is an integrated reality. And I've been so blessed. And, Sally, I want to acknowledge you and and Vilhelm who rented a car and and came to my land just a few years ago. Their baby had been born, stillborn and they were pregnant with a new baby. And and, Vilhelm's statement to me was, sister, it's we're sad, but we are no strangers to death. We know that these things happen. So this comes from a a a culture and a faith and certainly all in Mexico, not a not a complacency of, like, okay. They live or die. No. A a working reality, a a working capacity and skill to know how to be when baby lives and how to be when baby doesn't take that first breath, when when baby's life is complete at the day it's born or two days later or eighteen months later or whatever. Like, this capacity is also normal, and it's it's not normal in our world, and it's very unfortunate. So I do wanna go back to destiny though because it it I'm pondering it a lot myself. Like, oh, okay. Maybe this situation could have been a different outcome. Like Michelle Odan says, if we sectioned all babies at thirty seven weeks, we would end up with more live babies. It's a fact. Why don't we do it? It's wrong. Like, we don't do it because it's wrong, but we would end up with more live babies. So could the baby have been so I'm just like, this baby chose this mother in this situation. There is more going on here. There is destiny going on here. How to bow to a situation that is unfolding, we could say, as it should. Is this a big question mark I don't know so for me when I'm in a birth if if I am for example and in Mexico often I was in a birth baby born alive and the mother would say and it would be a girl, for example, girl baby. And she would say, please kill it. Please kill it or take it, you know, take it. It's going to have horrible life. I know I'm a woman. I know this situation, what's gonna happen. And I remember I would say, with brightness, you know, it's true. This would be true what you're speaking. People always speak their truth. Right? They just do. So I would say to this mother, it's true. You're you're right. It would it would be that way. But it's not gonna be that way because I was here. So I I chain I I changed the situation. This child now is going to save her people. I I know it because I I'm raising it up to the light and I'm saying, may you live long enough to know why you were born. This little girl is gonna save her people. It's she's gonna have a different, destiny. And why do I think these things? Because I was born that way. I was born in tuberculosis hospital with a nurse who said this child gonna live and be different. So we we change I'm changing you. You're changing me. We're all changing each other by our presence and impact, and so may it be a positive a positive thing that we're bringing. And it's okay to learn from a mistake or from we don't know. I I don't know if that was the right word, but I guess it's not a mistake if that's the way it came down. But it's also okay to learn of, like, wow. I can learn. I can try something different next time, or I can try less. This is the big problem for the medical community. Right? The think one more thing and one more thing when it's actually one less thing, Yeah. One less thing. One less thing. More privacy. More, low lights. More woman instead of man. More less, less, less can end up being, like, the beautiful thing that happens. But each woman, she's she's her, she is her living intelligence. She is the living Athena, the living temple, the living intelligence right now. So if she's feeling something, thinking something, that's our best that's our best guide in that moment to trust her and then trust ourselves trusting her. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2
I think we're just we're combating this narrative that, you know, trust birth as long as it gives you a live baby. You know, home birth is okay as long as it works. Free birth, you know, women are down to free birth until it doesn't work the way they want it to. You know? It's
Speaker 3
This, Emilee, is just emotional immaturity. Yeah. We cannot do what we believe in, whether we're a mother and letting our children, you know, climb the tree or run around or swim in the lake or whatever. We cannot do what we're doing only because it will turn out okay. Right. If that if that's the only reason we're doing what we're doing, then we don't believe in what we're doing.
Speaker 2
Well, I don't and I think that's what I'm seeing. I think that is what's getting revealed, and and that's been something I've seen kind of unravel this past year. And and this isn't a judgment or a critique. It's more of just an observation because I ponder on as a leader and a community organizer, how can I serve where I see so many people are at? And I want to see and I pray to see, women's community that can hold all of it. You know?
Speaker 3
It must.
Speaker 2
Of course. It must. Exactly. It must. Because if it doesn't, if there's any, if there's any edges to that of the immaturity or if that takes hold as central, we're just we're doomed, and the mothers are doomed. You know? Because The
Speaker 3
village from the beginning of time held it all. So
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
If we grow we must grow the village back. We we will have it.
Speaker 2
So maybe as we're closing, you could speak a bit to what you're bringing to our last year of matriarch rising festival, and it will be your third time cocreating with us. And I'm so excited to have you be a part of of this last one, and there's a daily offering of you, I think, every single day of the four days. And, yeah, maybe if you could just share with everyone. Let's start with the sky baby ceremony, because, you know, both you and I have obviously talked about this, and there aren't many spaces that can hold it all and there aren't, you know, in the free birth, maybe you could say community that I am aware of. Yeah. I mean, it's all it's all what's the word? Discombobulated because it's largely connecting through online. And so what happens when a way a woman births and doesn't have her baby? You know? And this is a huge gaping wound in so many mothering communities that I don't feel is held very well. Anyway, so we are going to be offering a moment, you know, a sacred moment for for these women and inviting other women to cocreate with us. So maybe speak on that and then the other two offerings.
Speaker 3
Well, what you asked first was what am I bringing. I I think what I want to bring is just the old forest. I I want to bring myself that's we we need wise elders, And I'm just baby I'm just only in my seventies. My favorite people are the they're in their hundreds, and, they don't read or write. They're so wise. So I I will bring what I can, to love the people and just bring the old forest. Now the old forest, of course, the old trees, they've really sent out all of their new leaves. Right? So I have my deep old roots and also have the energy and the enthusiasm of the new life. And as far as far as the star babies or the the grieving circle, the sky babies, this should be ideally handled within community. Right? Our community, we we do this. We have burial grounds. It it's a lot of a lot of ceremony, a lot of presence. It no mother should ever be alone with new baby that that she's got milky breast and laundry up to the ceiling and other toddlers running, and I nursed three babies at one time. It's a big deal. Right? Living baby. And that's right. Tell mothers you more than likely, your baby's gonna live and you're gonna be very busy. But then there there's the situation. So what can we do in June together? I will do my very best. I will bring I will bring my best, and we will do it depends on how many people are there, of course, but we we cannot hear everyone's whole story because this is what the community does on a on a yoni stone stool, with herbs and and all night long and the fires and the drums and the food and the songs and the and the healing. But we can bring as much as we can. Maybe we could have some yoni stools available and add ritual and ceremony. And probably the most important thing is that no one walks away without a name for their star baby. And all of us, many of us have star babies or sky babies, whatever we want to call them. One of the most important, circles I was in where we we spoke of this was even for the babies who were aborted, you know, on the other side. And those babies also, they are our babies. And so for a mother to learn to change our culture and to say, I have I have three children and two are still with me. And I I have a star baby to to acknowledge because when someone says, how many how many children do you have? When if we dumb ourselves down and dumb the culture and we only mention our live babies, then in the in the mind of the mother, she's remembering her baby. She's not it's not possible. A woman's thoughts revolve primarily around herself and her own story, and so she's aware of her baby. Why not why not speak it? So that's the first thing is we can make sure we've, we acknowledge our children. And and if they're new, if there are people who are raw and real and they haven't named their baby yet, we'll make sure our our babies have a name if they wish. And we we'll just add as much ritual and ceremony and honoring as we possibly can. That's my that's my plan.
Speaker 2
And what about the two workshops you'll be offering?
Speaker 3
Well, you know, I won't stop working. So this is this is ridiculous thing that happens to me when I'm called to be off my land and be at at something.
Speaker 2
It's like Just find you.
Speaker 3
Have you from here to there. Like, I'm going to Australia in November, and they're like, okay. We have you, high highlighting something or other here to there. And I'm like, well, what am I supposed to do the rest of the time? I will be working. So then I
Speaker 2
know what you're gonna do. You're gonna have a trail of maidens following you
Speaker 3
from singing and clapping. Be so. May it be so. I haven't
Speaker 2
told you this yet, but the the area where you're gonna be, we're calling it Morning Star Village.
Speaker 3
Yay.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it's a whole venue, and that's where you'll have your your stuff.
Speaker 3
And it'll be Wonderful. Yeah. Because one year, we were meeting under the trees with rain and whatever, but we can we can do whatever we want when it's not the scheduled things. We can we somebody brings some some baby dolls or little animals, and we can we can practice things. We can we can do whatever we want. But in the in the things that we've planned, I think there's a village prenatal, one of my favorites that I've just, migrated all over the world. It's a beautiful thing. So we will honor the wombfuls, and that will be fun. We'll have lots of ritual and ceremony, and, we need lots of icons and altars and chocolate. We must have chocolate. We must have color. We must have silks and drapes and a throne and all the things. And we will honor the woundful mothers, and we will find out their ideal because, it it's critical. Right? It's critical to know what is your ideal. It's it's so fun. My my favorite ideal that a woman spoke from Colombia when I was doing this in Arizona one time. She had married an American man and been brought, and she said, well, I I just want a live baby. And I said, well, wonderful. We we all do. We we usually all do. So I handed the talking stick back to her, and I said, tell us. Talk us through it. And she went back in her mind into her country, and she said tortillas would be would be cooking downstairs and there would be drummers outside and I would be up in the in the moonlight in the in the upper room and and sweet grass on the stove and da da da da da da da. And so afterwards, some of the women in her local community, they said, I'll make the tortillas. We'll gather the drum circle. And I said, you must tell me about your your, story when it's over. I always ask everyone, please write me. I never tire of the stories. And sure enough, later, this is what happened for her. And she said, sister, all because you asked me to say my ideal. So we will we, of course, will speak of this.
Speaker 2
Dare to dream.
Speaker 3
It's important. You're putting foot on the path to make it happen.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
It is not for weak wishing. You must you must work for it. But how can the universe help her if you're not being clear and working for it? It's exciting. And then the other one, Emilee, what is it? I I don't really
Speaker 2
The gathering of women.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. The women's circles. Well, it's where it all it it's the beginning and the end of everything. The women must gather. If the women gather, then from that beautiful circle, then all the other things can be born and cared for and, taken care of. But I do want to say, and I'll say it that day, I hope I remember, just like in village prenatal, you know, may we live long enough to know why we were born is a Cherokee blessing for birth. But for women's circle, I think we must begin to think more about what we can give to the sisterhood, not what we can get. So this is kind of a young thinking that I am dealing with it, of course. And and the I give them if they come to the land and they come to my women's circle, I just start giving them work these days because Mhmm. Healthless service and work, we we just come too soon with or they'll write me. They're like, oh, I'm in a difficult time of my life and dah dah dah dah dah dah. And I'm like, well, go go do some work. Seriously. Yeah. So what what can we give to the sisterhood? Not so much what can we get. And then And
Speaker 2
that would be that would be a paradigm shift.
Speaker 3
It must happen. God. And it's what the elder it's what we expect of the elders. Right? Mhmm. And my daughter, Tabitha, she'd she's very protective of me. All my daughters are right now, and they're like, mother, other people retire. Why are you still going out there and, and speaking and helping these people? Let them just do it. Like they're protective of me because. Like my granddaughter asks every time I leave the land. Gramsy, do they know how to show respect to their elders? He worries about this because too many people, they're very, selfish right now, not selfless. They're not asking what can I do? They're asking what it but it is not, again, it is not the way the river flows. The as we begin and I don't mean this problem also where people are overworked and overextended. No. Totally. So I'm wondering, Emilee, if if, one of the nights, we could have a big fire circle, with some sage and lavender, and we just toss in what we want to release. But we can toss in all the things that we want to be gone, and then we can also talk toss in what we want to bring forth.
Speaker 2
Totally. In this last five years, I have really learned firsthand that the entitlement and the and the juvenile wanting without actually, contributing and co creating and showing up in a how can I serve? And shy of that, when we're talking about community, shy of family showing up, people showing up saying, how can I serve? And I don't mean serve me. I mean, serve serve the central, you know, serve the organism that is this vision or this prayer. It it seems to me that in this, we could call them selfish times, but it's also this survival mode that is so selfish by design because if you're in survival, there's a inherent perceived threat. So what people say they want versus what they're actually available for are very different. And so when we talk about women's circles and we talk about community, there's this real kind of fictitious fantasy feeling about it. Not for you. You have a lived reality of this for a long time, obviously. But a lot of people, especially since twenty twenty, have been fantasizing about community and women's circles. And I see this mega lack of very few people are actually wanting it and coming to the table with how can I serve? It's what can I get?
Speaker 3
So let's leave these ladies, whoever's listening, to really Yeah. Write in the sink or journal or whatever. Think about what are your gifts? What is it that you can give? Mhmm. Not out of being burdened or overwhelmed or or any negative giving, but truly, like, your creative fire. Like, what is it that you can give to a sisterhood? Why would it why would a sisterhood want you in it? Like, do you know that you're irreplaceable? Do you know your worth is is so great that the great mother gave you life to live fully? Like, what is it that you bring from your place of enthusiasm and fullness and, unabandedly, freely, you're happy to share a bit of it with others. And if everybody shows up in this way, we will get the garden weeded. We will get the garden planted. We will harvest together. We will feast and celebrate together. We will have land to to do all the sacred things we need to do, and and the love will only grow. And if there is a a a problem, we will face it together. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
That's yeah. Beautiful. So in closing, final MRF. If you're listening and feel called to come sit with sister and myself and participate and cocreate in these beautiful things we've just articulated, we will have a sacred fire on the first night, and we should do just that. I think that's an important way to start our five nights together. Yeah. And then for those of you who won't be able to join us in person, I just want you to know it's not time yet that it's not available yet. But sister Morningstar and I did a retreat about a year ago, here on my land, call we called it the midwife within, and it was five days with you, sisters, offering tons of teachings and we spent a whole day on first breaths and we had a bunch of placentas that we got to know and learned all about that from you, how to make a drum. We buried them. There's tons of songs.
Speaker 3
So beautiful. Yeah. It was so fun.
Speaker 2
It was And so, I had it professionally, videoed and recorded to turn into a virtual retreat, which we are almost ready to release to the public. So, it's really special and it's primarily your workshops, edited and and consolidated into this virtual retreat experience. So if you're far away or in a place in your life where you're like, there's no way I can come, you know, to to this women's gathering in June, this is a real heart offering that will be available, I believe, in July. And we'll we'll leave the in the show notes, we'll leave the landing page for you to check out for now. Yeah. And it's just it's five days of of you, sister Morningstar, just offering and giving and singing and leading and teaching. And it's just it's really amazing. And it's in a yurt, and it's on beautiful land. We have a village prenatal. We do true queen, false queen. It's just special. It has ceremonies and ritual, and and you you know, I'm speaking to you listening. You will learn so much by watching sister weave her magic for for these five days and covering all these huge topics. Yeah. So I'm excited to put that out there.
Speaker 3
Well, thank you so much because it was so much fun, and the women were it it's because we were together. We had a direct experience. And
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So to be able to bring and offer a direct experience to those who couldn't be there, that that's very beautiful.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's gonna feel very cozy to get to watch.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I can't wait. Can we close with this song that I sang, to survive my trial or to survive? Do you remember it? It's an it's an old it's actually an old Negro gospel, or, like, it comes from that. Actually, they don't even know. It's so old. They don't know who really started it. But, well, can I sing it and we have to sing it?
Speaker 2
And I'm with you. And if you are listening in your car with your kids right now, please join in and sing with her.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Please do. Please join in. Just imagine your feet in the creek and you're, walking in the creek and the way that the river flows and the woods and the forest are beside you on either side. Just like a tree that's planted by the waters, we shall not be moved. We shall not be, we shall not be moved. We shall not be, we shall not be moved. Just like a tree that's planted by the waters. We shall not be moved.
Speaker 2
Thank you so much, sister. I can't wait to hug you next month.
Speaker 3
Yes. And I get to hug two people when I hug. Okay. Blessed
Speaker 2
be Love you.
Speaker 3
Blessed be.
Speaker 2
Thank you. I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below and, of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the good word of sovereign birth. Don't forget, you can watch our podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories, and you'll also find our viral free birth collection of epic raw birth videos on our YouTube. Make sure you're subscribed to our channel. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out all about it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's gathering, the matriarch rising festival. Our exclusive private vetted membership, The Lighthouse, is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together, we rise sisters. We must speak our stories, fully claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our gorgeous Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 4
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors separation of our young to be forced upon me. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star. They could not ban your spirit away, so please teach me your way. I'm ready to learn from you
