00;00;05;07 - 00;00;34;20
Unknown
Welcome to Free Birth Society. I'm Emilee Saldaya, and this is where we break the spell of medicalized birth. Remember what's been forgotten and rise together into our birthright to live, birth and mother as sovereign women. Welcome to my most returned guest. Is that the most popular guest? I can't believe you skipped a whole season. You weren't on season eight, so we had to get you back as soon as possible in season nine.
00;00;34;20 - 00;00;57;23
Unknown
I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me. Is this the first time we're pregnant? At the same time? I think it is, actually. It's cute. It's really cute. So you're at the end of your first trimester, I think. Yeah. Pretty much. You're very pregnant. You're paying all the time. That's all I know. It's real. It's a, it's a real life.
00;00;57;23 - 00;01;23;09
Unknown
Something in there. Good. Are you feeling movement. No. Oh okay. We know it's live because of other, other symptoms. Well, maybe I am just a little bit, you know, maybe just a little, little tadpole flutters, but nothing big. How are you feeling? Because you are near the end. I'm at the end. It's. I feel actually pretty good. I felt I didn't talk to you about this.
00;01;23;13 - 00;01;46;28
Unknown
I don't think. Oh, yes, I did. Of course I did. Around the festival time, I think I just needed to lay down. And now that I'm laying down, everything has resolved. And now I'm just in those, like, big, you know, big contractions that are waking me up and keeping me up and knowing that it's nothing compared to what I'm about to open up to.
00;01;46;29 - 00;01;54;23
Unknown
It's nothing. It's everything. Do you have any, like, just real quick advice?
00;01;54;26 - 00;02;24;05
Unknown
I mean quick, I'm not sure, but. And I don't ever offer advice, but I can certainly give you my honest opinion and perspective on anything. As everyone's like, you know, how are you preparing? How are you preparing? And I'm like, I'm not my really simplified interest and prayer is to just see how deeply I can say yes. And I, I didn't do that last time.
00;02;24;05 - 00;02;45;07
Unknown
And so I guess I have some nervousness about my ability to do it, because I don't think I've really done it yet, but it's like, that's it. That's all I have to say. Like, there isn't anything else. I don't care about supplies or affirmations or like blah blah blah. I don't have a playlist, I just. And not that that stuff can't help you.
00;02;45;07 - 00;03;05;08
Unknown
I'm not pooing it just for me right now. That's all I can come up with is like, oh, can I just say yes? Well, there you go. You don't even need to read my book. I mean, that's it. You've just summed it up well. Your books been next to my bed for a very long time, so I think there's been some.
00;03;05;11 - 00;03;32;22
Unknown
Yeah. I feel like you've, like, read half of it. Right? Maybe I'll pick it up. I mean, I'm just laying around now, laying around thinking, so. Yeah, maybe I'll finish it finally. Oh, okay. Great. So. Yes. So. Yes. Yes, yes. Okay, so we thought this would be cute and interesting to the term or the title we came up with was Thriving Under Pressure a tell all.
00;03;32;24 - 00;04;08;23
Unknown
We have both had quite a year together in our friendship and working relationship. And then just for our own individual family and life reasons. It's been just a big year for both of us, and we're both with child and, you know, are the breadwinners to our families and figuring out all these big moves and literal moves and then also moves within our own companies and so much change and just we've had a really big year, both of us.
00;04;09;00 - 00;04;50;08
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, it has a big year. And of course the year is not over yet. But the first half of 2025 was yeah, really brutal I think in many ways, but also expansive for me personally and certainly for you and me and our shared projects. And I think part of what has come up that his is a very present conversation in our program, MMI, which will talk about throughout this episode, is our students watching us navigate the public arena and all the really big pros and cons and lessons and challenges and impact that come with that.
00;04;50;08 - 00;05;21;20
Unknown
And a lot of what we're hearing from our students is fear about that and nervousness in their own, in their own lives. And in a much at least as they are starting out in a much smaller way, just of their community, finding out that they're doing something radical or their family finding out, you know, kind of that first layer of the onion that needs to happen to, you know, if you were to really make a profession out of working in the sovereign birth world.
00;05;21;20 - 00;05;44;12
Unknown
But I wanted to just kind of frame this episode around that, because I think that's really who we want to talk to. As we navigate all these different questions and ideas we've come up to share. In this episode, I wanted to name how many women are telling us that they're watching us. They're inspired by our work. They're following us.
00;05;44;12 - 00;06;13;08
Unknown
We've impacted them. They have a call to join the lineage of this work, and there is some real fear around navigating the public arena, putting themselves out there, you know, having to obviously contend with their own desire for approval. And so for those of you listening, you know, I'm sure you can relate to that. I think that is a normal place to navigate within all of us.
00;06;13;15 - 00;06;56;23
Unknown
Anything you want to piggyback on that to frame this hour? No, I mean, I, I think that's really been the question all along. I think this is one of the primary barriers that women experience to what they perceive as being success or expansion, growth, what have you. And I think that there are also some new and different flavors to this dynamic in the world as it is now, with social media being such a such a strangely alienating yet prominent part of many people's lives, for better or worse.
00;06;56;23 - 00;07;19;09
Unknown
So yeah, it's a big deal. I hear this a lot, so maybe we'll just get right into that. Let's just talk about the let's just let's just name the elephant in the room. You know, of us stretching every year more and more into what comes with a larger reach and what comes with really trying to do anything cool.
00;07;19;11 - 00;07;49;22
Unknown
You know, from what I can tell out there, it's been very actually, I'll say it this way. I think you and I both, for the most part, after 2020 to 2022, where we experienced being targeted by select groups of people who were out to not really prove that we were white supremacists because they never had any proof or offered anything really of any sustenance and were not obviously, but but that's what I said.
00;07;49;23 - 00;08;15;14
Unknown
But, you know, they weren't really out to prove it because no one actually ever tried to prove anything. They just they just called us that. Right? It was the, the the best take down attempt of the times. And so that went on and was awful, of course, for a couple of years. And then things were kind of chill for us in the public arena from 2022 to maybe 2024.
00;08;15;15 - 00;08;46;25
Unknown
Things just felt pretty relaxed. And I think, I mean, I'll speak for myself, but I think you will agree. We got kind of comfortable. We got we got a little we got a little comfortable. And so then as we experience, you know, what is a really shocking development in the beginning of this year to catch wind of a hate group that has formed about you and I and really nasty, really nasty.
00;08;46;27 - 00;09;23;11
Unknown
How would we like quickly summarize it. Just nasty lies and opinions. I would describe the short version as sort of being that a bunch of very deeply insecure, bitter, sad, lonely women who had put us on a pedestal and really projected onto us. What I see now was a real desperate desire for a guru. Like they were looking for cult leaders, and they did a kind of 180 when they realized that were both human to begin with.
00;09;23;13 - 00;09;56;19
Unknown
We're just we're normal human women and that we're also actually truly committed to self-responsibility, which I think for many people, if not most people, is an unbearable proposition. It's very difficult for people to really understand even what that means, let alone how to implement it. And these lonely, bitter women banded together and created, as you said, a little hate club so that they could feel a sense of validation and ironically, community when they realize that they actually weren't going to get either of those things from us.
00;09;56;19 - 00;10;17;17
Unknown
And they made up a bunch of stories and told a bunch of lies and a bunch of other women who I think were also, to some degree lonely and isolated, believe them. And ultimately it was and is nothing really just jealousy. The normal stuff, the stuff that anyone with any degree of impact or fame deals with projection, essentially.
00;10;17;19 - 00;11;03;03
Unknown
And I was thinking about this whole experience in light of our conversation, and I realized that it was actually at the height of these threats and the betrayal in the springtime that that I found out that I was pregnant. And of course, this was you're like in the midst of your third pregnancy. And there was definitely a moment there in the spring, at the apex of this phenomenon of women jumping on this bandwagon of slander and vilification, where I know that we both felt so much doubt and really fear because, as you said, although we'd been through public smear campaigns before, this one had a different flavor and it was much more personal, and it
00;11;03;03 - 00;11;35;03
Unknown
was incredibly destabilizing for for a moment there anyway, to have so many women who supposedly loved us, women who had been our students, women who had learned from us, women who had been on part of our, again, supposedly private networks, women we thought were our close friends, in some cases, women who were working for us, you know, contractors and having all these women turn against us and make up in same things about us was very destabilizing.
00;11;35;03 - 00;12;05;00
Unknown
But I think what was even more destabilizing was to have so many women say outright, you know, I don't know if any of this is true, but but the optics of having anything to do with you are no longer favorable, right? We even had women whom we had supported and loved and, and nurtured their careers. Say, you know, I actually know that there's nothing to this.
00;12;05;01 - 00;12;27;09
Unknown
We've you know, I've never had a negative experience with you. But again, the optics of having anything to do with you are no longer favorable. And I can't be associated with you, even though I know it's a weird time that has no actual grounding. I know it's okay. This is the definition of the mob. You know, this concept of the mob mentality really is the form of of mass psychosis.
00;12;27;09 - 00;12;55;14
Unknown
And what stunned me most of all, actually, is how susceptible we all are, because the contention, of course, and, you know, I've heard this so many times in so many different ways, and it's so nauseating. Ridiculous. The contention is that, you know, how is it possible for this story, this story that you're both villains and liars and grifters and beavers and baby killers and manipulators and cult leaders?
00;12;55;15 - 00;13;28;21
Unknown
How can it not be true if so many women are saying it right? And there was a point even. And this is actually what what really like still affects me when I think about it, when I talk about it. There was a point when even I noticed a waiver, you know, not only did I think for a minute, gosh, is there something about Emilee that that I've actually missed here, like, am I am I missing something?
00;13;28;22 - 00;13;47;29
Unknown
I mean, we've both been working together for eight years. Nine years now, something like that, you know, and I, I like to think that I know you pretty well, and God knows you're not perfect. And God knows we've had our differences. But is there something that I haven't figured out yet? And then I even found myself thinking that about myself.
00;13;48;00 - 00;14;15;25
Unknown
Like, am I? Am I bad person? Like, have I have I missed something about myself? And you know, it's it's transference on such a large scale and projection and, you know, it's just so interesting because these women were so desperate for an authority, you know, they were looking for the mommy or daddy that they never had. They were looking for a guru.
00;14;15;27 - 00;14;37;02
Unknown
And I think many of them really believed that we were the guru that they were looking for. And, you know, this sort of epic reversal happens when they finally discover that we're actually not willing to play that part. You know, we're not actually running the cult that you want this to be. We're not going to tell you what to do.
00;14;37;03 - 00;15;01;04
Unknown
We're not going to give you a script. We're not going to bring you into our personal lives. We're not going to facilitate or enable your completely inappropriate levels of idealization and idealization. You know, we're just free birth. Sovereign birth is not a cult. Self-responsibility is not actually a cult. It's not a club. It's not a religion. It's not.
00;15;01;05 - 00;15;21;24
Unknown
It's not a community either, actually. And you know, this, I think, is where we both really did go wrong. I no longer believe on any level that true community can be found online. There is no online sisterhood that is not. I wanted to think so. And I did believe that what we were building was a kind of online sisterhood.
00;15;21;24 - 00;15;47;25
Unknown
At one point we were very naive. We wanted there to be. We wanted it to be true, of course. Total delusion, a total delusion. We are running businesses like everyone else. And you know, the inversion happens because we're not actually willing to be what, what these lonely women wanted or felt that they needed us to be. Well, I did let a lot of them into my personal life.
00;15;47;27 - 00;16;20;25
Unknown
I mean, I played a role in an attempted, you know, community creation that you didn't obviously, you know, we we have really different stories around that, that piece. So, yeah, that's I did let a lot of unfettered, you know, again, just so naive, so innocent. Like I've been really, really working a lot with this piece of me that's been a little hard to admit within myself as a eight on the integration and just the eight, the eight actually really has this streak of innocence.
00;16;20;27 - 00;17;06;03
Unknown
I mean, you have it two as an eight that is so pure and so naive and so sweet. And I see now how she justified lacking so much discernment, you know, and carried what is ultimately quite a scarcity storyline that that's it's unconscious. So it's not fully formed. But it was something like I could only be friends with women who got the free birth thing, but there was something that formed as I built out this, you know, kind of business empire over the last five years, six years where women, of course, were coming in droves to us, so inspired by what we were doing.
00;17;06;03 - 00;17;32;11
Unknown
And I was completely naive and ignorant to the implicit power dynamics of being the leader. And oh, it's just so you know, it's so cringe now looking back. Because now that I've gone through what I've gone through and I've unpacked it and, you know, worked with, you know, my mentors in you and so much to just see what's here for me and how to how to avoid this from ever happening again.
00;17;32;12 - 00;17;57;04
Unknown
It seems really obvious. And this is, of course, part of our point of wanting to talk about this today is if you're going to do anything in your life and try, you're going to fuck up, you're going to fail. And if you don't cultivate grace for yourself and softness for the younger part of you that didn't know then, then, then you're just you're never really going to evolve.
00;17;57;05 - 00;18;17;03
Unknown
I mean, you know, obviously we do so many birth trauma debrief sessions with women around the world, and this is something I talk about a lot. It's like, if you must, you must cultivate softness, acceptance and forgiveness for the parts of you that didn't know. And it's so easy for us to villains, the younger part of us, because now we know.
00;18;17;03 - 00;18;44;17
Unknown
But you can't separate them, you know. I only know now because of my just epic, epic, you know, thread of failures and. Yeah, and I and I don't have any shame about admitting that. I think that's part of what I wanted to get to in this episode with you, is the real gifts that we've chosen to mine out of this.
00;18;44;17 - 00;19;06;24
Unknown
And, you know, anyone who's lived in the amount of life, I think you could relate to the lessons in the gifts that come from being torn apart or hitting rock bottom or, you know, whatever the terms are of just really getting your ass kicked or failing, you know, at a marriage or a business or a friendship. And I don't say that with, like, self-loathing at all.
00;19;06;24 - 00;19;32;21
Unknown
I'm I'm in a way, I'm really proud of my failures because it means that I've tried and I've taken enormous risk. I saw a meme online. I think it was from your boy that you like, Alex Hosie. It maybe, maybe it might have been him, but I saw a meme recently that said, if you knew that you were 25 failures away from hitting your goals.
00;19;32;23 - 00;19;58;24
Unknown
How would that change your, you know, mindset about it? And something like that. I might be butchering it a little bit, but I liked that. It's like such a such a requirement to accept and learn softness and grace for yourself as we stumble. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it really has been truly an amazing learning experience and the fruits have been incredibly positive.
00;19;58;24 - 00;20;36;14
Unknown
I can really see that now. It was a true winnowing, like a cleansing fire. The trash took itself out, the crazies outed themselves. And, you know, political correctness aside, I am not actually interested personally and really having anything to do with dangerously unstable people. It was tricky. The the thing worth mentioning here, and you kind of hinted at it, that is worth saying as we frame this is the reason it was a little tricky for us in the beginning was students came out as upset about this group.
00;20;36;16 - 00;21;21;13
Unknown
Women who were close or supposedly close friends of mine in particular, one, you know, like there were people kind of close in our ex-employees spun some really wild stuff, you know, women within our memberships. And so it wasn't just and only complete anonymous cuckoo birds, you know, that's the majority, but it gave it at least an initial sense of legitimacy because, you know, yeah, because of not just the the scope of it and how it was kind of hitting at every angle, but also that there were people supposedly or not.
00;21;21;13 - 00;21;54;02
Unknown
Supposedly there were people in our programs. There were people in our lives who were feeling impacted by this. Yeah. And I mean, all of this is there's a lot of nuance here, too, because it was destabilizing, as I mentioned before, for both of us and for the women in our circles. And and so, you know, it revealed the women who are solid and integral and who have discernment and judgment and intelligence, and it revealed who is weak and cowardly, as things always do of this kind.
00;21;54;02 - 00;22;26;11
Unknown
And it was just immensely clarifying. And, you know, as you said, the women who are grounded in real and loyal are still here, and we now know exactly who they are. And just that alone is wonderful. But also, I should say to that there was for me, and I know for you as well, just an incredible outpouring of support from like the public, from people who haven't necessarily worked closely with us, but who got wind of this ridiculous drama and who reached out and who saw immediately that these anonymous troll threads are absurd and ludicrous.
00;22;26;11 - 00;22;47;25
Unknown
And it's really been wonderful to be reminded of how many people are so grateful for the work we've done, which really has totally changed the landscape of birth. And that's the other thing, too, right? Like, we're not selling courses on investing or gardening or other topics that are straightforward and relatively apolitical, although what's really a political nothing, I guess.
00;22;47;25 - 00;23;17;03
Unknown
But my point is that there actually isn't anything more political or spiritually significant or dangerous, frankly, than birth. And I don't mean dangerous on account of the physical risk of dying during childbirth, whatever that birth as a topic is, is, is, you know, birth choices. And the transformational power of sovereign birth really is the most profoundly spiritual, political issue of all time, of what it is to be human.
00;23;17;04 - 00;23;39;07
Unknown
I mean, it reveals everything. Birth is the origin. Birth is the apex of intimacy, our connection to God. And this is precisely why birth has had to be so desecrated and destroyed by the demonic power structures that seek to dismantle everything that is good, including the family, including, you know, all, everything, everything that that derives from the power of birth.
00;23;39;07 - 00;24;05;17
Unknown
And, you know, I was thinking also about these these troll threads. And, I mean, a couple of people actually came to me and, and suggested that, like, like maybe these are government operatives, you know, like maybe this is maybe this is more nefarious than, than than it seems to be, you know, maybe this is currently pro yo, and I don't I don't actually think so.
00;24;05;17 - 00;24;43;04
Unknown
But the point really is that there's so much there's so much like evil in, in the world and in everyone's, you know, available to all of us to tap into that, like the CIA, Cointelpro, they don't need to get involved. Women are enough to each other as it is, you know, like that's really how it works. And, you know, on a deeper level, of course, this exposed our vulnerabilities and the mistakes we've made in our businesses, you know, allowing women into our inner circles, which which I did as well, to a certain extent, on the basis of assumed good faith, is so naive.
00;24;43;05 - 00;25;07;08
Unknown
You know, it's so naive because birth work and women's work and the work that both you and I do around power and authority and leadership in the space of pregnancy, birth and mothering and just women's work in general, it's very, very emotional is very much from the heart. It's very, very tender. And it is inevitably tied to and inextricable from birth related trauma.
00;25;07;08 - 00;25;29;25
Unknown
And I mean, you know, I've been working in the area for birth related trauma for, you know, collective 30, 40 years. But that's a lie, right? So, yeah, I mean, all of it is so ridiculous. You know, it's not an excuse. The fact that we're all burdened with with traumas of various kinds, and I do think that's true is not an excuse for anything.
00;25;29;27 - 00;26;12;05
Unknown
But on the other hand, I do see self-evidently that that trauma and specifically birth related trauma really does affect each and every one of us, whether from our own births or intergenerational reverberations of it. It is absolutely ubiquitous. And again, this is why we're doing the work that we do. And I think one of the primary forms of evidence for the ubiquity of unhealed birth related trauma is arrested development and emotional and psychological dependencies of various kinds, and spiritual disintegration and a tendency to succumb to mass psychosis and everything.
00;26;12;12 - 00;26;41;07
Unknown
This whole drama is a pure reflection of all of that, you know, systems of domination and control and and the urge to scapegoat. The whole drama that we have recently gone through is really an encapsulation of, of all of that. But the other gift that this has brought really to the forefront is how strong our friendship is. And we have gone through lots of ripples and stresses.
00;26;41;07 - 00;27;05;20
Unknown
And I mean, I'm so I love you so much and I'm so grateful for you. And you are one of the most I mean, among other things, brilliant, blah, blah, blah, but loyal people that I've ever known. And it really, I'll tell you now because I'm pregnant, but I love you. You only cry on your pregnant pretty much all.
00;27;05;20 - 00;27;33;11
Unknown
Shoot it soon. Yeah, let me do it. It's. Yeah. And I would like to respond to some of what you said and then get to sharing some of the gifts, because that that is absolutely one of the gifts to, to be just so challenged, you know, to be so questioned, to be so challenged, and for you and I to really work together to figure out what if this is real, what if this is serious?
00;27;33;11 - 00;27;53;04
Unknown
What of this is something we need to respond to, you know, how is this impacting us? You know, individually and together? Are we missing something? Like you said at the beginning, you know, you know, something that I think it was one. Have you heard of her? I really like her from from what I can tell, you know, on her Instagram.
00;27;53;04 - 00;28;13;14
Unknown
But she said something in a at a real a couple months ago. She said, my haters teach me so much. I have these organized groups of trolls and and haters and they teach me so much because they give me the opportunity to work my tools. You know, this is paraphrasing, not a quote by her, but I mean, I've heard many people in the public arena say things like this.
00;28;13;18 - 00;28;33;11
Unknown
You know, they give me an opportunity to also see what I might be missing about myself. And it made me think about a Byron Katie quote or tool that she talks about of when people critique me, when I feel willingness to do it, I will ask myself, can I find it? When I get feedback? Can I find it?
00;28;33;11 - 00;29;14;02
Unknown
And this is something that I've privately done a lot of work on with my mentor. We're all bring her, you know, some of these, these critiques or, or really horrific claims even, and in a state of willingness, you know, should I, should I be in that state at that particular time? We have done some interesting exploring of, you know, how to alchemy as critique and feedback in a way that feels true and helpful instead of total denial, which I think is the projection because you and I are not, like, publicly interested in interacting with like a bad faith group, obviously.
00;29;14;07 - 00;29;47;00
Unknown
But but that doesn't mean there hasn't been great reflection and dialog and therapy in a way of using it as we do with, with all that is in our life. And so, yeah, a couple a couple other things I wanted to mention before we move on, it seems that perhaps some people have misunderstood our our interest in teaching what we know and teaching what we like to talk about and philosophize on and work on as some claim of mastery.
00;29;47;06 - 00;30;17;04
Unknown
And so let me clear the record here. Neither of us think for a moment that we are, like, masterful in practicing these tools that we share in our programs, or even even bare minimum, the concept of self-responsibility. This is a this is a a goal. It is a return. It is a constant choice and effort. It's not like the default, if that makes sense.
00;30;17;04 - 00;30;38;10
Unknown
And so, you know, I think it's hard for people who don't understand this stuff and who aren't practicing this stuff to, to grasp that. And so the projection is that we're on some like, podium pretending like we've got it all figured out. You know, I think of people of more maturity and higher consciousness when they listen to our stuff, they totally get it.
00;30;38;10 - 00;31;01;08
Unknown
And they're really tracking with us being mean. It's one of our biggest positive feedback of our, of our courses and of working closely with us is how real we are and how transparent and honest we are about our flaws and immaturity and insecurities and issues and and that, you know, I'm inspired by my mentors of that's how they've always taught and they're so real.
00;31;01;11 - 00;31;30;13
Unknown
And I couldn't picture it any other way. But anyway, so, so this idea that like, just because we're teaching what we know in practice is not some claim of perfection or master mastery, not at all. And then I guess I just want to say that I think it's just so great. I mean, it's not surprising, but it's so great that this group and I guess other groups have spun off from there and there's like satirical pages attempting with.
00;31;30;15 - 00;31;54;04
Unknown
Oh, it's like so bad. I wish it was funny, but there's these satirical, you know, pages trying to make fun of us, and they're not even good, man. Like, I wish they were at least funny. But anyway, there is a it's so great that no one has even come close to presenting what the scam is, or what the cult is, or where the cult is like.
00;31;54;05 - 00;32;10;27
Unknown
Is it my house? Is it that I have a women's event? I'm not clear. No one has been able to specify that. And I guess I just want to throw out because I know many of you fans out there that just are gunning for me and yo and are listening to this because you're going to take it back to these groups to talk about it.
00;32;10;28 - 00;32;49;16
Unknown
I just want to say with real sincerity, like, send me an email of a intelligent thought out, you know, logical explanation of what the scam is. And I'd be very, very curious to reflect on that and to see if there's any, any truth to it, you know, the scam or the cult or both, because the the pitch is and it's very historically classic, you know, to do this to, to people doing radical stuff, you know, but the pitch, obviously, or the frame is that yo, and I have no real credit.
00;32;49;24 - 00;33;15;10
Unknown
We've lied about our experience, about our intention, about our relationship, though. We're liars and scammers and grifters is the big popular word these days. And we've lied and we have somehow tricked people into giving us their money for them. You know, to to what? I guess, free birth or take a course or whatever. And so, yeah, I'm curious what the scam is.
00;33;15;12 - 00;33;35;15
Unknown
A scam is not like an unhappy customer. That's not what a scam is. A scam is fraudulent, you know, look it up, learn about what that term means, learn about the the true markers of a cult. And then please email my company a real presentation of how you know this to be true. I'd be very, very curious to read it, but my point is that doesn't exist.
00;33;35;16 - 00;33;58;09
Unknown
It hasn't existed. And this group has like devolved into just just making fun of us, which is so cringe. And I guess that's the last thing I want to say before we move on is, you know, Sister Morningstar gave me a great line when women emailed her trying to convince her to disassociate from me. She she said, I will pray for you.
00;33;58;12 - 00;34;37;28
Unknown
And I've been trying that on a lot, just like, yeah, I will pray for you. I will pray for these women, because what that reveals is so sad. And it's so just here's a fact. No secure mentally well, happy whole woman participates in the tearing down of other women. Now, I want to admit something. I gossiped in my early life, and that was an expression of me not being secure.
00;34;38;03 - 00;34;57;07
Unknown
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I would never do it online. Oh, that's so cringe. But anyway, so my, my my point is, and I and I hope you all can really try this on and look at it in your own life beyond just, you know, this current drama that you and I have referenced because it shows up for all of us.
00;34;57;08 - 00;35;22;18
Unknown
You know, any time that we're acting in bad faith and not just holding our head up high and moving the fuck on, you know, your willingness to co-create drama or talk shit about someone or tear someone apart, it only reveals your own inferiority. And that's part of the cringe. Like the part of me that just loves women and feels protective of women and wants to see women thrive.
00;35;22;21 - 00;35;50;22
Unknown
You know, I hear about this group where people will send me screenshots and I'm like, don't you guys see how this makes you look? This is so pathetic. It's so cringe. And and really, it's okay to not like me, but your your commitment to scarcity and feeling less than me or yo. It just reveals your own issues and your own loneliness and your own lack of purpose.
00;35;50;22 - 00;36;12;14
Unknown
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00;36;12;14 - 00;36;33;02
Unknown
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00;36;33;02 - 00;36;59;04
Unknown
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00;36;59;05 - 00;37;23;00
Unknown
Because you can only walk with women as deeply as you've walked with yourself. Then we move into 11 weeks of sovereign birth work training. We share all that we know to get you foundationally ready to stand in this work with a massive knowledge base. Next, we teach you how to teach, offering coaching frameworks, childbirth education models with examples of how we do it every step of the way.
00;37;23;01 - 00;37;47;16
Unknown
And finally, we bring it all together in a full birth business school. From your first nitty gritty steps to launching a sustainable aligned, purpose driven practice, this is a proven, powerful, high touch mentorship program. The women who are graduating are radically transformed. They're clear in their mission, rooted in their value and making money by serving women from a place of authenticity.
00;37;47;19 - 00;38;14;00
Unknown
They're teaching sovereign childbirth classes, attending births outside the system, leading circles and changing the cultural conversation. One woman, one family at a time. Match Birth Mentor Institute is where independent birth coaching and education meets. Next level business mentorship meets life changing consciousness work. We only run this program once a year, so if you're feeling the pull, now's your time.
00;38;14;01 - 00;38;22;24
Unknown
A sovereign birth work career awaits you, and we're here to walk with you every step of the way. Check out.
00;38;22;27 - 00;38;54;21
Unknown
For Birth Mentor Institute or Free Birth Society to learn more. Yeah, I mean, it's not actually the clever, sophisticated you flex to call someone a grifter who's running a business that maybe you don't like. Like it just doesn't even like. That's not what the word means. And thousands and thousands of women have benefited from our programs. Like, it's just it's ridiculous.
00;38;54;22 - 00;39;17;14
Unknown
Like, they don't they're not using the term correctly. And it is embarrassing. I mean, as you said, it's totally okay to dislike us. It's totally okay to not appreciate our our energy, our vibe, to disagree, to disagree with what we're what we're what we're what we represent. To disagree with our values. To even think that the products that we've created are not good.
00;39;17;15 - 00;39;39;05
Unknown
So don't buy it. I mean, this is the free market, right? Don't. If you don't like something, then you don't have to buy it. We're not kidnaping anyone and taking their money and forcing them to sit through hours of our content. Furthermore, something that's actually quite unique about what you and I have both created together and separately is that our work is actually ours.
00;39;39;05 - 00;40;07;17
Unknown
It's actually the product of our lived experience. I actually do have almost 11 children. I actually have spent over 20 years working in the birth field supporting other women witnessing births. You know, just immersed in the world of birth. My thoughts and ideas, the thoughts and ideas that I have turned into, products that I sell in exchange for money from people who find value in them, are the work of my heart, my soul, my blood, sweat, tears.
00;40;07;17 - 00;40;35;12
Unknown
Like it is actually a real thing that that that we've created together and separately. So yeah, it just doesn't really even even make sense. And it is. It is based on envy. And you said something a moment ago. It is so spiritually bereft and deeply, deeply sad to see women so committed to holding the bias of bad of of assuming bad faith in others.
00;40;35;13 - 00;41;05;10
Unknown
Like what kind of life is that? That you see a woman in the world creating something they hate themselves, like pure projection. Exactly. Sad. And only an insecure, unwell woman would get off on this supposed fall. You know, like this story. It's like lol are going to be super bummed when they realize this isn't happening. But the story is that, like, everything's falling apart, that there's like all these court cases.
00;41;05;10 - 00;41;26;27
Unknown
That's one that I, that I've been sent that that I'm involved in, like just I'm just getting sued left and right and is failing and I'm fleeing the country. It's like as as dramatic as possible and like, okay, cool guys. None of it's true. And like, they're one funnel into my life now is what my AMA is on Instagram for them to like, try to dissect and figure out.
00;41;26;28 - 00;41;53;28
Unknown
Yeah, but but the supposed, you know, the story of the fall from grace of someone that you once saw as larger than life or that positively impacted you, you know, it's just it's not like you said, oh, long time ago, like the Venn diagram of unwell women and free birth. I mean, it has to be said, because this has so much to do with who I've stupidly led into my life.
00;41;53;29 - 00;42;20;08
Unknown
Like, you know, I didn't know about the discernment of men diagram, you know, like, surprise, surprise, everybody having a free birth doesn't heal your psyche and your whole life. It's not it, actually. No. Not necessarily. And that there's a thread of women who are drawn to the counterculture because they can't fit into mainstream culture. There's a lot of reasons for that.
00;42;20;08 - 00;42;43;00
Unknown
But one of those flavors is because they're not well, and they're angry at the world and they hate themselves. And so they think they're going to find belonging in this radical niche that you and I have carved out. And then when they don't, for whatever reason, you know, projected or literally whatever, then you find false sense of tribalism within the hate group against the very thing.
00;42;43;07 - 00;43;07;26
Unknown
Exactly. I mean, we really made the mistake of assuming that most women are far, far more psychologically, emotionally, spiritually sound than than many of them are, especially in this world. That's been the sex piece for me. That's been really, really hard. You know, women are deeply, deeply broken men and women, of course. But I'm at the point now where I actually think that probably women more so.
00;43;07;26 - 00;43;34;06
Unknown
And, you know, that's going to be twisted as well, I'm sure, and will be called victim blaming and gas letters, but and with survival with the new survivorship. Oh, we have survivor bias. That's a really interesting one. That's super interesting. Yeah I mean not not everything is is gaslighting. And there's actually a difference between gaslighting someone versus standing your ground and pointing out that a person or group of people are actually unstable.
00;43;34;14 - 00;44;04;04
Unknown
They're actually unstable or lying. That's just called maintaining a boundary, right? It's not the same thing. Oh, that's so confused. But like, oh, again, women who are thriving aren't spending their time in hate groups. And so it's a it's it's already just such a bottom of the barrel consciousness. Oh I mean I feel really, really sad. It's really sad sad thing.
00;44;04;04 - 00;44;23;00
Unknown
And and learn from it. See what's here for us and move the fuck on. Because that shit is like it's like I'm picturing in Bali, when you get a pedicure, you can choose to put your feet in a little fish tank where the fish just chew off your dead skin. It's disgusting. But I've done it, and that's what it makes me think of.
00;44;23;01 - 00;44;45;04
Unknown
Just these little, like, gross, like gnats. But there's still a value there. And of course, these are real human, you know, people who are choosing to spend their time this way. So it says so much. And anyway, so if I, you know, some of you are listening, of course, so you can report back to your clubs and just getting me a lot of love and please don't take our programs and no, we won't give you a refund.
00;44;45;04 - 00;45;21;16
Unknown
And just like best of luck and you deserve to be outside and like meet the people around you and and to feel happy. And yeah, I just I wish you the best. So I want to ask you to keep going with this conversation. What is it like for you now knowing that we have or I'll save you? I mean, it's us, but knowing that you have troll groups and that you have obsessed fans in versus fan.
00;45;21;17 - 00;45;56;11
Unknown
But I don't call them fans because they are obsessed with you. Yeah. What's it like for you to put out your work, to put out your newsletter, put out your, you know, reels in your content and to run a membership and to show up in the public arena with a real understanding that there are a committed group of women that that are are just waiting for the opportunity to make fun of you and to tear whatever it is that you're putting out apart.
00;45;56;12 - 00;46;22;17
Unknown
What is that like for you and how do you continue to function? Because just one more quick thing before you answer. I saw this thing online recently. It was a quote by Scarlett Johansson, that beautiful actress. She said she said, I can't have social media. My ego is way too fragile and I am way too. I care way too much about what people think to be online.
00;46;22;17 - 00;46;32;18
Unknown
I can't do it. And I thought I said to Johnny like, whoa, how pathetic.
00;46;32;20 - 00;46;54;21
Unknown
And I mean, I appreciate her honesty, but but wow, it just kind of struck me. And I mentioned it to him and he was like, Emilee, I think most people feel that way. And I was like, wow, okay. Wow. So anyway, yeah, how is it for you and how do you keep finding the what is it that you keep finding?
00;46;54;22 - 00;47;31;12
Unknown
Is it your own narcissism? And if it is, what is it? Tell me about that. Well, I don't have a soul, and I am a totally ego driven, complete narcissist. And no emotions. Just no emotions at all. But are so insecure. No, I am actually kidding. I do have a soul and I'm not a narcissist. And I actually I would say that I probably fall a little bit between you and Scarlett Johansson in that I certainly have nothing to do with.
00;47;31;12 - 00;47;53;16
Unknown
I've never visited the groups. I don't look at it. I don't want to know about it. Lots of people send me stuff and I like, I don't want to see that you have not looked. I have not looked, I do not, I do not look. I will not look and I'm not interested. But overall I, I'm aware of it because again, like it's been, it's been brought into my awareness whether I like it or not.
00;47;53;16 - 00;48;18;28
Unknown
But I will say that knowing that that exists and and knowing the depth of obsession and I'm not like, not even that, like we're not like we're not even that famous. Okay, this is not like, this isn't the big time. But what this whole experience has done, done for me definitely is. It's been immensely freeing and it has given me so much more courage.
00;48;18;29 - 00;48;48;17
Unknown
Like, since all this stuff started, I've been putting out like satire reels and tons of content, and I'm launching new programs, and I actually feel so much more imbued with the confidence and determination to just allow it all to be real. Like, I'm totally who I am, the version of who I am online. And that's there's a lot of nuance there actually, too, because I get accused all the time of like, you just have no shame.
00;48;48;17 - 00;49;08;20
Unknown
You just sell every aspect of your life, don't you? And I definitely, definitely don't. I'm actually a very, very private person. I'm an introvert. I do not share every corner of my life. Not by a long shot. What do you mean, possible? I mean, it's not even possible to do that, but I. But I'm also like, I have quite strong boundaries.
00;49;08;22 - 00;49;27;13
Unknown
You know, I don't I don't engage in a lot of the ways that I think would make someone more vulnerable. So that's been another aspect of this. It's really allowed me to see just to refine and hone how I operate online. But it has been so, so freeing. Like, it doesn't matter what you do, it doesn't matter what you do.
00;49;27;13 - 00;49;56;27
Unknown
It doesn't matter your level of fame. There will always be people who hate you and are obsessed with you, whoever you are. And so let that be the freedom that you that you need to to, to do your work in the world. And this is also brought, really brought home to me. How true and how grounded I am in the work that I'm doing, how how purposeful my life is, how clear I am in my mission.
00;49;56;27 - 00;50;44;19
Unknown
I know with unwavering truth that what I'm bringing to the world is incredibly important and and of so much value and and that the work I do is in devotion to mothers, babies and humanity, whether they appreciate it or not. It's not of my concern. Well, again, getting this image of like, you know, you, you and I individually and together are in this incredible like bowl of there's so much good happening and there's so much validation and appreciation coming back to us individually and for our shared collaborations.
00;50;44;19 - 00;51;14;19
Unknown
And so that's like what matters, of course. And that is the the true meat of the pie or whatever. And then on the outskirts there's these fish eating the dead skin off either than that whatever. But but it's not the main bread and butter at all. It's the, it's you know, Brynn Brown has some quote, I'm going to butcher it, but it's like she said something in her HBO special a long time ago that always stuck with me about the critiques or the critics.
00;51;14;19 - 00;51;37;03
Unknown
She just she has learned to let them fall at her feet and and to keep her aura strong and well and on purpose. And she absolutely cares what some people think. You know, the people who she's in relationship with, the people in good faith. And I feel the exact same way as I'm sure you do. Like, I, I care what you think about what I'm doing in the world.
00;51;37;03 - 00;51;57;15
Unknown
I care what my mentors think. I care what my elders think I care it my husband thinks my close friends, of course, because there's good faith there, right? And so, anyway, I think that's an important thing to presence is those of you who are watching us, who are freaked out because you've seen some of the the nastiness out there.
00;51;57;17 - 00;52;24;15
Unknown
Don't forget to see the larger picture. You know that the nastiness is just this kind of outer layer. But what's really happening is so rich and so abundant and and just so beautiful. And no one can take that, you know, if if you and I were only being met with everyone that bought our stuff, hated us and wanted to be like, oh my gosh, like our businesses would not continue to flourish.
00;52;24;16 - 00;52;51;09
Unknown
Da, you know, it wouldn't work. The very fact that you and I, year after year, continue to make more money than the last year, continue to have more impact, more clients, more students. It speaks for itself, which is why we've never had any interest in defending, you know, some of these insane claims, because you can just look with your eyes and and just see, you know, the beauty that is, is around us.
00;52;51;12 - 00;53;12;08
Unknown
So I'm going to just keep asking you some, some questions. Anything else about that of just. Yeah, I heard you say the freedom. I have such an important thing to say. We've been talking about this for years of like, what does it mean to be canceled? And the freedom that that comes when you get past this hump that so many women are still at?
00;53;12;15 - 00;53;39;12
Unknown
Of what if the world doesn't like me? What if these people don't like me? And once you experience people not like you and experience all that comes with that, you know, and untangle it and find yourself in it, right? Like Scarlett Johansson not being able to be online because she would be so impacted by what strangers would say about her.
00;53;39;15 - 00;54;02;04
Unknown
That is crazy to me, you know? And yeah, I mean, you know, no, no, no shade on Scarlett Johansson, but damn, I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I couldn't, if I wasn't constantly returning to who I am and what I'm doing and feeling really good about it and seeing my, you know, my impact and seeing my healthy, thriving relationships all around me.
00;54;02;04 - 00;54;41;14
Unknown
And we cannot be swayed from that. You know, we just we cannot be swayed. It so it's so beautiful. And yeah, so I agree having having critics and people really out to get us. I also just want to piggyback another thing it's given other than freedom is an even bigger call to accountability. You know, like I really got to be aligned with what I say because it's going to get recorded and shared and taken and moved around and, and I, I, I at first I was a little intimidated by that.
00;54;41;14 - 00;55;07;16
Unknown
And now I'm really like, yeah, that asks me that calls me into such a higher level of responsibility, of how I show up that I'm super here for totally. And actually, it really was a relief to like, discover that there isn't anything in any of this. And and ultimately, what was reinforced to me is like, yeah, no, we're we're good.
00;55;07;17 - 00;55;29;25
Unknown
We're like, everything we're doing is is is is is for the good. But you're right. Yeah. It has actually made me real. I mean, I've been saying this for years. I'm very aware of this. But the experience recently has brought this into a kind of a new dimension of awareness that really everything that is done, said, texted online is not private whatsoever.
00;55;29;27 - 00;56;03;13
Unknown
Not at all. And there's some interesting paradoxes in this too, you know, like the more the more famous I could come. And again, I know full well in the grand scheme that that I'm relatively not anything. Yeah. But you don't need to demean it because it is. I would describe fame as a one way relationship. And you have a one way relationship with over 100,000 people, you know, like one relationship with these, with these troll groups or with with the women who you inspire all around the world.
00;56;03;13 - 00;56;31;08
Unknown
So that is what it whether it's millions or thousands, I don't really care. You're right. And actually another another part of this too, is that this whole experience has allowed me to toil, at least with the idea of really blowing up. Like what? What could that look like? Can I handle the money? Can I handle the influence? Is an interesting term that needs to be unpacked, I think, elsewhere.
00;56;31;08 - 00;57;06;17
Unknown
But, you know, can I handle the incredible expansion of that? And I realize that it is true that I think for me, more and more, the greatest commodity is anonymity. But I'm also realizing that really high impact fame can actually facilitate deeper forms of anonymity, in a way. I mean, money in itself is an incredible buffer and a source of security, of course, but also, the more that people believe they know you, the more it is that who you are really becomes obscured.
00;57;06;18 - 00;57;30;19
Unknown
Like no one knows who I am. People think that they know us. And you're right, this is what the sort of one way. But but that's also such an interesting dynamic as well, because I think one of the reasons that I and you have the capacity for this kind of presence in the world is that we don't actually care what other people are doing.
00;57;30;20 - 00;57;54;13
Unknown
Like, there's no one online. I was I was thinking about this the other day. There is no one who is famous or online that I follow or care about whatsoever. The people that I care about are the real people in my life that I have true relationships with. And so this is a very and that groundedness is what makes us able to be these public figures.
00;57;54;14 - 00;58;34;13
Unknown
So it's just it's it's very interesting. And this kind of automatically produces a kind of parallel life, which I think is inevitable. The capacity to hold is inevitable for anyone who is willing to have this kind of presence. And this is these are some of the things that we talk about, dissect and teach in our programs, like like MMI, because there are so many women who have incredible gifts that should be shared with the world, and the barrier to them actually sharing those gifts is this tension and fear and all of the friction that's involved in these topics.
00;58;34;15 - 00;59;16;14
Unknown
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I think, you know, Johnny and I will have talked about this in our episode a lot, so I won't do it too much here. But the biggest piece for me that has come out of this that I'm so grateful for is Will. You just pointed to it? I realized through the spring that I was not prepared spiritually, energetically, financially, in every way I was not prepared for, or I am not yet prepared for the level of notoriety that I think is coming for me, you know, in in time.
00;59;16;19 - 01;00;04;10
Unknown
And there's so much behind the scenes, you know, going on and opportunities opening up that, you know, I don't talk about in the public arena yet because it's not time. And so, man, I was at one point like on my fucking knees about it. Like, thank you God for showing me this truly and sincerely such real appreciation. Real, I mean, which might be hard to believe because yeah, it sucks for people to talk shit about you, but the levels of threat and attempted take down from just the small, you know, little pond we're in right now really showed me not not how not to get my stuff was my stuff's actually quite together, but like,
01;00;04;10 - 01;00;42;15
Unknown
what could happen next? And so, you know, being doxxed. Right. Like getting dox, which is not the first time, but, you know, having trolls send me hate threats and death threats with my address on it. You know, people pulling up old like legal documents and researching stuff with my address and like zooming in on things to find information from the background and creating freaking fake screenshots, like so many things that just hadn't happened yet at that level, you know, came forth this spring that really showed me.
01;00;42;18 - 01;01;16;26
Unknown
Whoa. I have just been an open book. I have had no energetic or literal like privacy barriers. You know, pretty much if you wanted to be my friend and be like involved in this, I was down, which is like, oh my God, so cringe, so done with that, but so naive. And again, just like I said at the beginning, there's such a a younger part of me who was allowing friends, you know, supposed friends into my life, not from the leader archetype, you know, that's in me and blooming in me.
01;01;16;26 - 01;01;36;13
Unknown
And of course, like, we're the first to admit, you know, to each other in our students and everyone. Like we're just learning how to do all of this. I've never had I've never had this level of success or impact or fans or people wanting to be near me. And and I just assumed good faith. Like a fucking idiot.
01;01;36;16 - 01;02;01;20
Unknown
I just assumed it, you know, and that's my default with with people until until it's not. But anyway, so our call towards growing the fuck up and becoming better leaders, you know, emitting to each other how confused we've been or how much we've confused, social and professional, which is so easy to do in the birth world. I mean, we're women.
01;02;01;20 - 01;02;29;29
Unknown
We're mothers. Like, of course we want friends. Of course we want community. Of course we want fellow sisters walking with us in this work. And there's just been a really very real learning curve and and not doing it that great in a million different scenarios. But but always doing our best. You know, I can absolutely say that. And we have always taken our stuff very seriously.
01;02;29;29 - 01;03;16;08
Unknown
And any student that wanted to talk and just like really caring very much about what we're doing and how we're doing it, and of course, having tons of failings and flaws within it because we're learning how to hold this space as we always will be anyway. So yeah, I think we can kind of close out that topic, but I also just want to express such sincere appreciation to you and how how much, how much your solidarity does for me in my life, you know, and and, you know, and I have, you know, we talk about this every now and then that we like, forget we'll kind of we'll kind of lose track of how far
01;03;16;08 - 01;03;44;17
Unknown
out on the edge we're holding this torch for the world, because it's so normal for us. And our friends all live this way and our mentors live this way. And it's just, this is just so normal. And then we get kind of bitch slapped by, you know, culture or or whatever, you know, these different scenarios or upset students who really did not understand what we were trying to deliver on the sales page or whatever it is.
01;03;44;17 - 01;04;13;28
Unknown
And you and I just having such a good faith commitment with each other in the whirlwind of what this, this, this radical, you know, torch holding means and trying to be good ethical business women and, and be real and loving and honest and also have to be so firm and so boundary and being called so many things. I mean, it's just so wild being so misunderstood.
01;04;13;28 - 01;04;48;11
Unknown
And then here you and I consistently are just like the the study we're study. You know, that doesn't mean we haven't had our stuff. But that's the stuff is not an issue because we're study and obviously both of us have we're very clear on what. Yeah. Like the groundedness our friendship gives the other in our lives. And then the fact that we actually work together is like frickin, you know, icing on the cake and such an expression of that groundedness, you know?
01;04;48;12 - 01;05;24;06
Unknown
So, yeah, it just you and Sister Morningstar in the last couple of years, just how her solidarity for us and with us has both just been these really critical anchors for me to continue. Let's talk about some other fun stuff now that we've thoroughly flushed that out. Okay. I think we should also name the rebrand of MMI as the Segway here out of because it is connected very much, and I think it's interesting.
01;05;24;08 - 01;05;53;13
Unknown
And if you are one of the many women considering our long form high touch program, it's called the Matcha Birth Mentor Institute, and it really blossomed out of the success of Uni's first live program together for Birth Workers, which is called the Radical Birth Keeper School. And we've played with that since 2020 is when it came out, had about 1000 women graduate from that program all over the world.
01;05;53;13 - 01;06;22;09
Unknown
And one of the biggest things we learned from that program was there's two types of women that are coming into this sovereign birth work world, one of which is still perhaps working a normal job or has young kids at home and they want to dip their toe in their curious. They want to be a part of this, but their interest in, you know, doing it as a full on business is quite small.
01;06;22;11 - 01;06;49;04
Unknown
And so, at least for now. And so we have over the many evolutions of the radical birth keeper school, decided that it's at least for now, resting state is going to be a self-study. We're using the term sometimes little sister program for the woman who wants to get familiar and do this at her own pace. Yeah, and at a much lower investment, obviously.
01;06;49;04 - 01;07;09;28
Unknown
And so that's what that program will be relaunched as at some point in the near future. And then what we also learned was that there's this other group of women who were very, very called to know and work with and support and just love taking under our wing of women who are like, let's go, like, give it all to me.
01;07;09;28 - 01;07;29;21
Unknown
I want to know all the stuff. I want the tools. I want all the sovereign birth work information. But I also want the business hand-holding. I want to know how to teach women or how to hold women in birth trauma debriefs, like the whole shebang. And so we felt this call for a while with RBK that it was just too fast.
01;07;29;21 - 01;07;51;10
Unknown
And yeah, it was like too quick and women were feeling a little whiplash and we were sending them out into the world and they needed more. They needed more long term debriefing and support. So that's where MMI got created. At the time that this episode is out, we will have just finished its first year. It was a wild success.
01;07;51;13 - 01;08;15;09
Unknown
It was so awesome. It's been so cool to see the women, you know, what they do and how they process and the changes they've made. And many of them are actually attending Sovereign Birth from the support of this program. They've launched their websites or they've they've kept it more private, and maybe they themselves had free birth, and maybe they themselves have focused on healing.
01;08;15;12 - 01;08;33;29
Unknown
You know, women have made really big changes while under our wing this year. And so we learned a lot from the first year. We're just tweaking a little bit of stuff. We're actually not changing that much. We're very excited to do it again with a new round of women. And so yeah, what would you like to share about it?
01;08;34;00 - 01;09;20;06
Unknown
I mean, I have specific questions like what's different about it now if you want to mention the rebrand. Yeah, I do want to say that part of the nucleus of the decision to rebrand MMI, it's now the The Mattress Mentor Institute as you mentioned, is really the fact that we, I think, have finally come to terms with midwifery, finally with with come to terms with, with the term midwifery or midwife having been entirely and I think probably at this point, this stage anyway, irrevocably for this era appropriated not just by the state but by the media to signify a medical ized birth.
01;09;20;07 - 01;09;54;12
Unknown
And I think, as always, we overestimated the capacity of most people to understand this concept of freedom and personal responsibility again. And our intention initially was to teach what we understand to be true midwifery, sovereign midwifery, emancipated midwifery. But that idea itself, for most people at this point, is a source of total cognitive dissonance. It's irreconcilable for most people from the medical realm, because the very idea of midwifery itself has been so folded into the medical paradigm, it's totally enmeshed with medical consciousness.
01;09;54;12 - 01;10;12;19
Unknown
And so we had some students come into the first iteration of MMI, and they were basically outraged that we were not teaching medical midwifery. And we sort of had to say, well, that's the whole point here. We are teaching what we understand to be sovereign midwifery, which is intrinsically not medical. But that became a real source of confusion.
01;10;12;19 - 01;10;34;05
Unknown
And so we sat down and we realized that in using the term midwife at all, we're trying to in some ways like catch a tidal wave that's already broken, like the term midwifery is done, it's over. The medical industrial complex pretty much owns it completely. And so that's fine and owns you. Like that's the other thing. It like owns your brain.
01;10;34;06 - 01;11;01;00
Unknown
You listen, you don't even realize how much that and that that's what was our that was our blind spot was I know these women saw the sales page and we never read it, you know, but but they still wanted to understand how to put your hands in a woman for shoulder dystocia, like it's. They still wanted medical perspective, even though they didn't realize that's what they were wanting.
01;11;01;05 - 01;11;26;25
Unknown
It just got it was so complicated and and. Yeah. So sorry. We just realized, like, we gotta just let this word go. We got to let it go. And furthermore, the program itself, MMI is it's really focused on teaching women the tools to serve mothers and babies throughout all of the seasons of motherhood, whether during pregnancy or birth or postpartum and beyond.
01;11;26;29 - 01;12;04;00
Unknown
And so we wanted the we wanted the language needed to reflect that. Women want to create thriving, sustainable businesses in the birth world and in birth adjacent work. And that area is way more future proof than I think any other profession. And in this era of increasing AI takeover, I think it's really going to be those businesses that are focused on what it is to be human and how it is to be human and the deepest human connections, which of course, birth is the source of.
01;12;04;07 - 01;12;27;00
Unknown
And women are coming into this work wanting the tools to create businesses that are actually going to to work. And so I think more than ever, success in this area is really going to rely on our capacity to develop the ability to communicate our thoughts and ideas effectively, and to bring across our humanity and the essence of who we are and our energetic imprint and our sentience.
01;12;27;03 - 01;12;55;25
Unknown
Sentience is is is what the world is, is all about is what being human is all about. And I think this is going to be more important than, than ever before. And this is exactly the emphasis that we're bringing to MMI, the map traverse, the Mentor Institute. It's really a melding of a real understanding of the physiology, psychology and spiritual dimensions of birth, which very, very few people actually understand, but which you and I both do.
01;12;55;25 - 01;13;28;04
Unknown
And we do have real lived experience of motherhood and birth support collective 40 years of it and Matra Birth offers all of that. But what's also so unique about Matra Birth is that it also offers a full childbirth education framework and suite of teaching tools, so our students leave the program with a complete childbirth education curriculum, the framework, the framework of which is theirs to use and to translate and to make their own.
01;13;28;04 - 01;14;00;04
Unknown
But the entire curriculum, which you and I wrote and developed is for our students, and it makes teaching highly accessible, highly intuitive, effective. And it is such it's such an amazing program. It's a truly transformational sovereign education program, which is straightforward and accessible, and it can be very easily translated to the online space, to in-person group classes, couples sessions, and also one on ones both online and in person.
01;14;00;04 - 01;14;27;10
Unknown
So just this aspect of the program is so, so powerful for anyone who wants to create a successful, sustainable birth related business. We also have an entire module on birth related trauma coaching. And this actually might be the section of MMI that that I'm maybe most excited by, although I love every part of it because birth related trauma, as I mentioned before, is this issue that pervades every aspect of our society.
01;14;27;12 - 01;14;57;18
Unknown
It's knit through every culture. It's present in every corner of the world and every single human being, as I said before, is to some extent carrying birth related trauma. And so there's just so much work to be done in this field. And an entire quarter of mice is dedicated to deconstructing birth related trauma, teaching our students how to be really, really effective birth related trauma coaches and several of our students of this round of MMI.
01;14;57;18 - 01;15;22;16
Unknown
It's been so interesting to see that several students entered the program thinking they were going to focus on in-person birth work and realize that actually, their passion lies in birth related trauma coaching or childbirth education is so versatile, so versatile. Yeah, and the flip side has happened to women who've entered the program thinking they're going to be doing online work and have discovered that actually, they want to focus their businesses on on in-person networking and in-person birth work.
01;15;22;16 - 01;15;47;02
Unknown
And so, you know, it just it's a program for every woman who, as you said, is actually feeling the drive to make this her life's work. And it's it's just yeah, it's an amazing program when we share everything that we have a full business module as well, and we share everything that we've done, you and I, to create effective, thriving businesses in this new era of digitized everything.
01;15;47;09 - 01;16;16;12
Unknown
And I think what's most significant about the business, business portion and all parts of it too, is really that we are teaching women how to access their voice, how to speak their truth, how to move through these layers of self-sabotage and fear and cowardice, which we all deal with to some extent, and to really stand out in a world that is awash with machines, copycats, phonies, fakers, nonsense purveyors, plagiarist.
01;16;16;12 - 01;16;44;06
Unknown
And the truth is, there is a lot of challenge out there right now. You know, there are challenges, but I also know that it has never been easier to start a business that's profitable. And that also is in true service to the good. There is so much junk out there, so much mindless consumption. But what really keeps me inspired and driven and galvanized in this work is that I know that we're doing that.
01;16;44;08 - 01;17;09;22
Unknown
This is so, so important. I know that what we're doing is so profoundly true, and I know that there are so many women out there who feel that fire and sense of drive and who have so much to offer and who just struggle to access their voice and to put together the pieces that could very, very easily be translated into thriving businesses that are so heart centered.
01;17;09;25 - 01;17;28;11
Unknown
Right? Like, we do want to teach you the boring, weird business stuff that no one has ever explained to you. Like, I just we just had a student yesterday posted in the forum about like, so I have Gmail, do I do business or G suite? And how does that turn into a funnel and a sequence and you know, oh my gosh, it's just the basics.
01;17;28;11 - 01;17;59;23
Unknown
Like why would you know this stuff without someone having first told you? And we are both several years deep into this online business stuff. And so it's, it's, you know, someone needs to teach you the nitty gritty. And that is an important piece to this because it's actually really, really, really easy. But so much of this is also why I love the programs you and I do together, is so much of what is like woven into the foundation is not the intellectual content.
01;17;59;24 - 01;18;39;06
Unknown
It's meeting yourself and actually having the tools and feedback and reflection in space to grow up and to own your insecurities and see how that's a barrier sometimes, or your limiting, limited thoughts. So many women enter this program thinking, who the heck would ever hire me? You know, who am I to want to do this work? And I just, I I'm calling on any woman who sees what you and I are doing in our unique flavors to join us, and we're just so here with the open heart and open mind to show you what we've learned.
01;18;39;13 - 01;19;08;11
Unknown
Because we don't want to be alone holding the ed, you know, holding the torch on this, this, you know, amazing, amazing revolution that's occurring. And women are free birthing in Jerome's nowadays. And they are looking for mentors and coaches and, you know, more more content, more stories, more guidance. Yeah. And maybe that's another piece of the rebrand was the first.
01;19;08;11 - 01;19;39;15
Unknown
At first we thought we were really focusing on this idea of midwifery and attending. And then we've we've through our own constant evolution with free birth and with attending, we've really learned that we want to help the women that come after us, broaden their perspective on how how do I say this? Like attending is probably inevitable. If you're in this work, you will be asked to attend, and that's so beautiful.
01;19;39;19 - 01;20;10;26
Unknown
But that doesn't really need to be the focus. And actually, there's a lot of fruit to supporting women to free birth, which was another very real evolution of this program for us that we're really excited about, because we both have very much come to understand that free birth is the only real way to take responsibility for your birth, and women are hungry for it.
01;20;10;26 - 01;20;38;20
Unknown
They really are. And our success is an expression of what is here and available. And so it's so exciting. It's just so exciting. It's also worth mentioning the community aspect. While yes yo said there's no such thing as online community, totally agree. The community that spins out of this network is very real. I just woke up to a text.
01;20;38;24 - 01;20;59;10
Unknown
I meant to send it to you. Yo, but I forgot from two women who are in England who are in MMI, who have become very, very good friends. I'll send it to you after this. It's so cute. And they linked up with an RBK graduate who has a baby, and they've created a circle together and have more and more women coming.
01;20;59;10 - 01;21;23;28
Unknown
And that's real. You know, that is happening totally. And actually, we've seen so much of that result from the work that we're doing online and that we have done online for years. And so I would totally agree. I think it's very important to make that distinction that online spaces cannot be community, but online spaces can certainly facilitate the formation of real community in the world.
01;21;23;28 - 01;21;52;11
Unknown
And that's a really important thing to yeah. To note. Thank you. And then another thing worth mentioning, it's it's a large investment for for a selfish reason, but many women come to this program just for their own interest. You know, we have I'm thinking of one woman who just sent us in a video testimonial, and she just said, I'm planning my back my free birth after C-section, and I don't know anyone in this realm, so I just wanted to be with other women of this consciousness for the year.
01;21;52;11 - 01;22;15;18
Unknown
And I mean, that's very real. I think a lot of women came to MMI to rewrite their own trauma stories, which they've done. So many women have birthed in power through this year. And so on the one hand, that's a it's a lot of money for, for your own personal development. And yet your personal development is actually at the absolute core of anything you're going to do.
01;22;15;18 - 01;22;41;12
Unknown
And so you can't really separate them, especially in this work. If you were going to go sell cars or vacuums, you could probably compartmentalize it. But when you are called to show up in this inside out, you know, way, as a mature, wise woman in your community, you got to get your shit straight. And so that could absolutely be your motivation, as it has been for many women.
01;22;41;13 - 01;22;59;17
Unknown
I was also giggling when you were talking, remembering that one of the women that left the program very upset about, you know, all this confusion, whoever critiques was in the email to us, she said, I just or maybe it was on one of the troll groups, I don't know, I don't know where I saw it, but she said something like, it was just so annoying.
01;22;59;17 - 01;23;26;26
Unknown
After all the lessons, the general message was, now go out and do it. And I told Sister Morningstar that at the at the festival I was like, yeah, that's the woman was pissed that we we kept saying, now go out and do it. And she was like, what? Training doesn't end with that message. Lastly, I know I'm not sure, but that really bothered this person because we don't we don't have any any golden keys to get you making six figures with no experience.
01;23;26;26 - 01;23;59;06
Unknown
My friends, you've got to go out and do it. We have a pretty obvious formula and recipe that we are seeing tons of women replicate in their own unique ways, and absolutely build successful businesses. This is a time where women are at such a deficit of the cultural amnesia and the trauma and wanting better, and and so few people are stepping into this gap and offering a better way.
01;23;59;07 - 01;24;24;09
Unknown
I mean, it just it's so here for all of us to have and to support each other to make happen, which is really at the core of our interest of mentoring women, you know, to really go out and do the thing that should just be our new tagline. So there's no confusion. There's a certain woman that's called to MMI not just to make money, but to tell the truth, to help lead this movement, to live without compromise.
01;24;24;11 - 01;25;07;18
Unknown
What does she need to hear from you right now? And then the follow up is how does allyship between women really work, especially in a co-creative, high stakes space like MMI? What have you learned about holding power together? I would say to her that I really want her to know that if she feels any inkling of a call to take a place of leadership in the world of birth, that that itself is the sign that she possesses a unique form of brilliance and a gift that can benefit the world, and a totally unique story.
01;25;07;21 - 01;25;48;16
Unknown
You and I are actually really not special. You know, we get frustrated with the dumbness and stupidity and foolishness out there, not because we think we're better than anyone else is, but because we know we're not. We know we're not. We're not geniuses. You know, I know absolutely that every single human being, if they could get out of their own way and just muster up the courage to set aside the distractions and to do the thing that is true and real, and to say the thing that's true and real, that they would find themselves in a state of inspiration and grace and flow.
01;25;48;17 - 01;26;20;24
Unknown
I wish that more women understood that they have so much more power and freedom than they realize they do, and that true freedom comes from not just freedom, but but success comes from being aware of what and who it is that we're disciplined to, and being aware of what and to whom we are obedient to, because we are all highly, highly disciplined and super obedient.
01;26;20;25 - 01;26;52;09
Unknown
The question is to what and to whom, right? I mean, you may think that you lack discipline, but it's actually just that you're highly disciplined to watching Netflix and eating bonbons. And, you know, this is such a powerful realization. But but if you feel called to birth work to any extent, that means that you have something to give, and it is rooted in the true experience that you've always already had.
01;26;52;10 - 01;27;28;28
Unknown
It's rooted in your true experience. And more of that inspiration comes from, just as you said, actually showing up and doing the work and combining being present in your community and in your life with translating those stories and experiences to the online space. And this is something that's actually also very important and that we really emphasize in MMI, there are people who have built surface level businesses through memes and repetition and parenting and AI and plagiarism, but that's not actually going to be sustainable over the long term at all.
01;27;29;01 - 01;27;54;11
Unknown
Anything that's real, anything that is going to command real presence and create real change in the world, always has to be rooted in nature, life, the body, embodiment and lived experience. Yeah. And the call is your permission. Such a big piece to write that women come, you know, with this, who am I? Who am I to do this?
01;27;54;13 - 01;28;26;28
Unknown
It's like, well, you just invested in this program. Like you're call to do. This is so alive. What more permission do you need? My goodness, this beautiful. We are going to be offering a couple of live classes spaces with us throughout the rest of the month. We're playing with even calling the series Grift or Grifter. It will be an acronym, but if you can't play with this shit, you're going to be Scarlett Johansson.
01;28;26;28 - 01;28;48;15
Unknown
You know, gotta be grift. I love it, I love you, I love it anyway. So we'll be we'll be offering some to the public, you know, workshops to learn a bit more about us and what it means to do this work. And then we're also going to be offering a MMI graduate open house kind of roundtable at the end of August.
01;28;48;18 - 01;29;11;07
Unknown
So you can really come grill us about the program before you make the the dive. Talk to the graduates. Yeah. So stay tuned for all of that. Thank you. And I love you. And to have you back to not talk about wild mothering, I asked. I asked you if she'd come on to cover wild mothering. And she was like, what do you mean it's wild mothering?
01;29;11;07 - 01;29;31;03
Unknown
I have nothing to say. I was like, perfect, let's do an episode on. That is not that's no, that's not true. It's more the term wild mother. I'd actually love to talk with you about about mothering. Maybe instinctive, instinctive mothering, perhaps. Or like just I thought that you coined that. I did, I did, but it's another one of those terms that's been so twisted, you know, it's been so twisted.
01;29;31;03 - 01;29;54;25
Unknown
And the truth is, of course, yes, that none of us are actually wild, I get that, but I would actually love to talk about what what what can we call it? Well, like this fun. Like trusting the spontaneous healing of our children. I mean, you well, you are a true inspiration of how much, how wide your capacity is to hold that.
01;29;54;26 - 01;30;17;29
Unknown
I would love to talk about mothering and healing and how we can support our children in their healing cycles. That would be great. Which and in my there is a three hour workshop. That's right. Yes. Oh, we didn't even talk on. We didn't even touch on the amazing spotlight teachers that we have in. But yeah, I think that was good.
01;30;18;00 - 01;30;39;16
Unknown
It's nice to air some of this out with you and that, you know, we both are feeling quite processed now that it's July at the time of this recording. And and I'm feeling really vital by our students and the end of the program. And I'm so proud of it. And you can see it in the results of just how epic everyone is and how stoked they are.
01;30;39;16 - 01;31;06;27
Unknown
And we're just so we're so here for the the lessons in the up level, which is damn near constant. It is continuous graduations. Yeah. All right. Love you. Love you too. All right women, I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it through the link in the show notes below. And of course, leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on.
01;31;06;28 - 01;31;26;06
Unknown
The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets. So let's spread the good word of free birth. Don't forget, you can watch all of my podcast interviews on YouTube and see the women as they tell their birth and power stories. And you will also find our viral, free worth collection of epic Raw Birth videos on our YouTube channel.
01;31;26;06 - 01;31;47;10
Unknown
So make sure you're subscribed. We always have a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at Freiberg Society. And I am at Free Birth Society on Instagram. Please opt in to my newsletter below so that you don't miss a thing. We offer courses on free birth, sovereign birth work as well as one on one coaching women's retreats so much.
01;31;47;15 - 01;32;11;14
Unknown
Our exclusive private vetted membership. The Lighthouse is definitely something to check out. If you are looking for a community of wise sisters to get guidance from and to meet in real life. Together we rise. Sisters. We must speak our stories, fully, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you.
01;32;11;17 - 01;32;12;19
Unknown
Till next time.
