Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Today on the show, we have Heather from Michigan, mother of four and a new midwife. From an induction at a hospital with her first birth, to two midwife assisted births, to choosing a free birth outside in her backyard at almost forty three weeks with her fourth, Heather shares her journey with us of how her birthing experiences led her to the path of midwifery and her own self empowerment.
Speaker 2
So my first baby, I got pregnant with her right about a month after I got married. And I was just terrified that I was even pregnant. And I just did what everybody else did. We I saw an OB, and I got just standard care from her. And, actually, my health was not very good back then. I was a smoker when I got pregnant with her. So, in order to quit smoking, I just it took me a long time. I was almost twenty weeks pregnant
Speaker 1
with her
Speaker 2
when I finally quit smoking. And I actually found out I was having a girl, and it became suddenly very real that I was indeed having a baby. And so I just, decided that I would just eat all the candy I wanted to eat instead of smoking. So every time I thought I wanted to smoke, I would just eat, like, probably a pound of gummy worms or whatever. Wow. So I gained a lot of weight from eating all that sugar and not exercising. I was just not healthy at all. And how how old were you? I was twenty three Okay.
Speaker 3
When I got with her.
Speaker 1
And I'm gonna guess your OB was offering very minimal nutritional advice.
Speaker 2
She never asked me anything about why he she'd be like, wow. You gained twenty pounds this month. You know, it's a lot of weight. She would tell a lot of weight and she but she would never say, like, what are you eating? Nothing. Nothing. So I just kept doing
Speaker 1
I started
Speaker 2
doing doing what I was doing and and then my blood pressure slowly started creeping up as the scale went up and up. And, when I was about twenty six weeks pregnant, she was like, I think you're getting preeclampsia. Your blood pressure has been high. You know, your last two appointments, and we're gonna do these blood tests. And so we kinda started doing, like, increased monitoring. Probably around the time when I was in my third trimester was when I was doing, like, the NSTs, going to the hospital for those and increased monitoring. And when I was, like, thirty two weeks pregnant, she basically was like, you are, you know, you're not going to get to your due date. You have preexia now. And, you know, I have to I was seeing her, I think, every two weeks or something at the time. And she's like I just remember at the very end of my pregnancy, I was so uncomfortable, and I was so swollen and big. And but I was also so noncompliant. Like, she would ask me to be on bed rest, and I would just do whatever I wanted to do. She wanted to induce me. I think I was thirty five or thirty six weeks pregnant. And I was like, no. I can't induce this week because my baby showers this weekend. I just my health was probably the last thing on my mind at the time, but I was like, I can't have a baby before my baby shower. So finally, I had agreed that I would be medically induced when I was thirty seven weeks pregnant to the day. And it was just a standard typical American induction. So you the night before and you get the servo dill put up on your cervix and you spend the night in the hospital and you hope that that puts you into labor. But for me, it did not. I didn't feel any contractions. Nothing from it at all. And I didn't sleep at all that whole night, like, so uncomfortable in that bed. And the next morning, I got woken up probably at, like, six AM and got it was you're gonna have your water broke and you're gonna get put on the pit six AM. We're starting bright and early. So I was probably, like, dilated to, like, a two or something. I don't even know, because the servo did nothing. You know, my body just wasn't ready. It shouldn't have been at thirty seven weeks.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it's, like, it's stressful.
Speaker 2
Right. It was horrible. Yeah. I made my take me out to dinner, and we had, like, this huge feast the night before. And, like, I actually was like, you know, what what would happen if we just didn't show up? And I think we were, like, three hours late for the induction, and they were like, we didn't even think you were showing up at this point. It's like, well, I had to go eat more. It's not what I needed, but, so, yeah, then they I had my water broke, started on the pit. I had, like, a birth ball, and I had, you know, like, I was like, I'm I I just don't wanna have an epidural. I wanna, you know, do this drug free. But what I did not know, that I know now, is pitocin contractions are not normal contractions at all. So it was like, I I like to describe it as, like, getting hit by a bus every two to three minutes. And and they came strong and hard and, like, I couldn't cope and I couldn't even get away from them. Like, even when when I went to the bathroom, I'm dragging the IV pole with me, and they would the nurses would come in and, like, beep beep beep, you know, cranking up the pit. And I was just like, I think I that started at it started at six, and and I think by noon, I was like, I need the epidural. I can't do this anymore. My husband's like, yes. You can. You know, you don't want an epidural. It actually got probably when I asked for the epidural around noon, I I got drugs in my IV to see if that would take that off because I was like, I can't.
Speaker 1
Do you know what you got?
Speaker 2
I don't know. I got a couple shots of something. It probably what did they call it? Stadol
Speaker 1
or Yeah. Or Demerol or
Speaker 2
Something like that. Yeah. It it just made my head loopy and helped the contractions at all.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's it's like, you know, someone who witnesses birth but haven't felt pitocin personally. It looks like I'm watching a a caged animal trying to, like, claw out of a cage. Like, it looks like they're being tortured.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It I've only seen a couple pitocin abductions, like, from helping women, like doula women. And it looks brutal. But from witnessing it, like, I tell everybody, I'm like, it literally felt like I was getting hit by a truck.
Speaker 3
Only two minutes.
Speaker 2
Couldn't get away from it. Couldn't get in the shower because you gotta be constantly monitored. They didn't have wireless monitors twelve years ago. So everything was all hardwired in. And they were kind of rolling their eyes at me. I remember when I was rolling on on this ball and they're kinda like, you know, basically just kind of ticking the time now into when I was gonna cave and get that epidural.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
And I sure did. Probably, like, by one o'clock, I had the epidural, and I was exhausted. I did I didn't sleep the night before I was exhausted. So I get this epidural, immediate relief, you know, and it's funny. You're like, I'm watching these huge contractions on this monitor, and I don't feel anything. It was great. So what we actually just did, we turned all the lights off, turned my big fan on and my and kicked everybody out, and I took a nap. I slept. I wanna say, probably, like, four hours. I just slept and slept. And then when I woke up from the nap, I felt so much better, but that's when I felt pressure. And I was like, oh, that's different. Like, you know, there's and of course, the nurse was like, the minute you feel pressure, you know, you tell me. So because we're gonna check you. So I was like, well, you know, I feel something. But so she checked me. She says, oh, yeah. You're complete. So it and it was so fast at that point because I was like, not complete. You know, what does that mean? I don't feel anything.
Speaker 1
I just
Speaker 2
feel weird pressure. But the minute you're, like, oh, you're complete, it's like bam. Uh-huh. Delivery cart. Nurse did.
Speaker 3
Lights are on. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Like, you know, my sister gets kicked out of the room, and there's a Sprite light, you know, on my crotch. Like, all this you know, and we're gonna push every contraction, and you're gonna do three Mhmm. Huge pushes and count to ten and It's like a it's like a football coach.
Speaker 1
Right. Go. Go. Go. Push it. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. The the nurse, I think she was okay. But I was just like, I am not having a c section. I don't you know, and I don't care how long it takes me to push. And, you know, I the one thing I do give my OB credit for was I told her, you know, as long as everything's good. I don't want any time constraints on my pushing. I don't care if it takes me all night to do this. Nice. And she was like, as long as your baby is tolerating it and as long as you're making progress, you know, fine. I'll agree to that. So I ended up, the nurse, you know, helped me. I changed positions probably, like, fifty million times. I pushed from I think I started pushing, like, right before six thirty at night. She wasn't born until nine fifty.
Speaker 1
So three hours and fifty minutes?
Speaker 2
Yeah. And she was born posterior. Mhmm. And when I remember when, I pushed her head out and then and the OB says, okay, you know, don't push now. And I was like, forget you. I just pushed it. I was like, forget that. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So I just and she goes, well, I almost dropped your baby. Then I heard her say to the to my baby, like, you stinker. You were supposed to turn. When I asked him later, I was like, well, what what does that mean? And they're like, oh, she was born, you know, facing up. And normally, we, like the babies are supposed to turn and and face your bottom.
Speaker 1
Supposed to. I love that.
Speaker 2
I guess supposed to. Whatever that means. But she was super hard to push out. They had turned my epidural off after about an hour into pushing. So I could actually feel what I was more what I was doing. But I felt like, you know, like, I did a pretty good job. You know, I had these nurses are coming. They're like, oh, I can't believe you even believe you delivered vaginally. You know, we you know, ninety percent of moms first time moms who have a posterior baby, you know, they're they're dissection, and we normally don't let people push that long. Like, normally, we let you push, like, two hours.
Speaker 1
It's so degrading.
Speaker 2
Right. So I kind of but with them talking to me like that, I kinda felt like, you know, I was kinda badass.
Speaker 1
Totally. It's like both at the same time. You know? Right. It yeah. It's like you're you're lucky, but you also preserved this vaginal birth in the face of all odds.
Speaker 2
Right. Right. So when she was born, she put her on my chest and that it was it was another thing I learned back then that I didn't know or that I know now, I didn't know then, is that epidurals can cause, something called an epidural fever.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So they're like, oh, well, you have, you know, a fever and, you know, we don't know why you have a fever. And so now there's a problem because now you had a fever, so now the baby has a fever.
Speaker 3
So when they put the baby on me, and I got one look at her, and a nurse came up and said, I don't like her color. And the next thing I know, she was gone. And I couldn't even see where they took her. And they had taken her over to the warmer and put her under this warmer and then took her temperature and said, oh, yep. Your baby has a fever, so she has to go to the NICU. And it was just, like, happening so fast. So I was like, you know, well, okay. I mean, what was I supposed to say? I was just exhausted. I'll be honest. So my husband was like, no. She needs to at least hold the baby before you take this baby away. So they said, okay. Well, you can have five minutes. So they brought my baby over to me all wrapped up with all kinds of goop in her eyes and put her in my arms. And I you know, she was trying to look at me, and she couldn't see me. You know, I could tell she couldn't see me with all this goop. And they let me hold her for five minutes, and then they took her away. So they were like, well, that's fine because she can go get settled and, you know, we can get you stitched up and cleaned up and in your postpartum room, and then you can go see your baby.
Speaker 1
Yeah. No big deal.
Speaker 3
Right. No problem. You know? Oh, you wanna breastfeed? Yeah. You can do that later. You know? Whatever. So, I had, like, a very minor little tear. I didn't have an episiotomy or anything. But I do remember the repair because I felt the needles poking, you know, into my skin. And I remember my OB asked me if a resident could watch her do the repair, And I was like, okay. You know, whatever. Fine. Even though I had asked them that I didn't want any male doctors or residents in my room and that it was a it was a guy. So I was annoyed about that, but I I guess I was just too tired and didn't feel like I could say no. Mhmm. So I remember her she was just explaining this repair. Like, I could hear her step by step by step. Every little thing she's doing, look at it. I'm doing this, and I'm doing that. And on and on it went. And it was probably, like, ten minutes, but it felt, like, so long to me. And then she's like, okay. I'm done. And when I sat up, I just I looked at him. I was so mad. And I just said, I hope you learned something. And he was just mortified, and he laughed. And my husband's like, why did you say that to him? And I was just like, because I just was so mad that he was even here. So then I showered and I got taken my postpartum room, and I called the NICU. And they were like, you can't come right now because who knows why. Putting her IV in or something. You know, call back in an hour. So I called back in an hour, and they said, you can't come now because it's shift change. And I you know, call back in an hour. And so and then and then they're like, well, you know, it's like two or three in the morning at this point. She wasn't born until almost ten o'clock at night. They're like, just get some sleep and come in the morning. And I was like, you know what? I am not doing that. I wanna breastfeed this baby. Wow. You know, when can I come and breastfeed my baby? I haven't seen her but for five minutes since she was born. You know? Like, what the heck is going on here? So I think that's when they finally let me go down. And, of course, like, the NICU is, like, on the opposite end of the hospital or something. It was a, like, a very hard walk for me. I remember, like, pushing my wheelchair and then finally, like, I was like, I can't walk anymore. I would sit in it and make my husband push me the rest of the way. But those nurses, of course, were like, you need to be walking. You need to be up and walking. You can't just get pushed around. So between that and finally getting to see my baby and they, like, they had a pacifier in her mouth, and I didn't want her to have a pacifier. And they were like, well, I mean, you can't be here all the time. And then the whole breastfeeding thing, like, they were telling me she had, like, dangerous jaundice and that she had to have formula or she would get sick because she could potentially die. Wow. And I was like, well, I wanna breastfeed. And they're like, well
Speaker 1
Which is actually one of the best, you know, responses to jaundice.
Speaker 3
Right. Of course. But I didn't I didn't know any of that. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't I didn't even know what jaundice was. I had never even heard of it. So, I mean, we my husband and I were so kinda young and clueless. Like, we really didn't know what we were doing, and we're kinda like, well, you know, my husband's like, well, let's just do what they say. You know? Like, they That's most people. They know what they're doing. Mhmm. But the whole situation just completely undermined everything I wanted them to do. Like, I didn't even change her diaper till we got home when she was over forty eight hours old. They just did everything. Yeah. And they would let they say they were gonna let me try to nurse her. They would say, like, five minutes on each side, and then after that, give her a bottle to top her off because we didn't want this jaundice to get out of control. Now the whole time, they had never tested her bilirubin. They had never put her under billy lights. Like, this like, look hindsight, this was not, like, an emergency jaundice thing. You know what I mean? Mhmm. So I don't even understand what they were doing. They were just doing whatever they wanted. So that whole scenario between that, oh, and then my whole postpartum care that was nonexistent, they never brought me a breast pump. They didn't even bring me ice packs for my, you know, swollen behind. Nothing. I was like, hey. You know, I'm the one down at the end of the hall without my baby. Like, it just felt like I was, like, this big inconvenience asking for ibuprofen and ice packs. And then, you know, they would taunt me to walk more as I was pushing my wheelchair down the hall trying to get down to the NICU to go see my baby that they were pretending was their baby. Like, that's what it felt like to me. Like, I felt like they were just like, it was their baby.
Speaker 1
It is their baby.
Speaker 3
I mean, like
Speaker 1
You know? Like, once it's in NICU, that is a hundred percent the the way that it's you're on their terms, and it's it's your baby is now their responsibility. And and, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3
Right. So we just kinda did what they told us to do so we could get the heck out of there. And then, so that was my first baby, and then I had a horrible time breast I mean, not horrible, but I had a a rough start breastfeeding her. I my milk did not come in until she was ten days old because we continued to supplement. I didn't know, like, how to stop doing that. Like, I had him he and then, of course, I had her on a Friday, and my husband had to go back to work on Monday. And we got home from the hospital Sunday night. So I was on my own. Yeah. It was just really hard. I didn't know what I was doing. She was crying all the time. And, you know, they're like, well, yeah, just keep, you know, supplementing her, you know, because that jaundice, that can get really dangerous and, like so I would nurse her and nurse her, like, you know. And then when she was done, we'd top her off. And, anyway, yeah, my milk didn't come in for ten days. And I was sitting there upset one day, and I had a family friend over, and she's I said I just said, I just don't want her to have this formula. I just hate it. It stinks. It's disgusting. I never wanted the formula feed anyway. We can't really afford it. And she was like, then just stop giving it to
Speaker 1
her. Right.
Speaker 3
And I don't even know why. I was like, I had not even thought of that in my new mom, Soggy Brain. But I was like, you know what? So I had my husband pick up, the book, The Woman We Are Breastfeeding on his way home, and I read it. And I just got in my bed, topless with my baby. And, I mean, she cried. Sure. But I just was like, nope. No more bottles. I'm done with that. Mhmm. Stayed in bed with her for, like, two days. And she just, you know, she had always latched on great, and it was fine. So I just stopped giving the formula. So she didn't have any formula after that. And, yeah, she finally self weaned at, like, five and a half years old.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 3
I was like, the one that took you know, was the hardest start with she didn't wanna let go after that, I guess.
Speaker 1
Sure. You're, like, still breastfeeding at twelve years.
Speaker 3
Yeah. She probably would if I'd let her know. She wouldn't. But Yeah. So that whole experience, I thought that was just ridiculous. It was like a circus. There has to be, like, some other way, like, in the future, should I ever have another baby, there has to be a different way to do this. You know? I'm gonna find that way. So, at the time, there was, like, that mothering forum online. So I was kind of fumbling around with that, like, trying to find, like I don't even know really know what I was looking for. I somehow found this group called Birth Network that did, like, local meetings. And I went to one, and the person who was running the birth network meeting was a home birth midwife. And I was like, what? Crazy. Like, people have their babies at home, like, on purpose. Wow. That's crazy.
Speaker 1
You hadn't really ever thought much of it before?
Speaker 3
I I had not thought of it. I didn't and I sure as heck didn't know anybody who actually did that. Mhmm. I didn't so it was so intriguing to me that I was like, that is awesome. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna if I ever have another baby, I wanna have the I wanna have a home birth. I wanna do that. Oh, then I was like, oh, man. Now I gotta convince my husband who's gonna be like, oh, no way are we doing that. Was he? Oh, yeah. He was absolutely like, that's that's crazy. We're not doing that. We weren't even pregnant yet. We weren't even trying to get pregnant. There's four years between my first two. My first was such a hard baby. She ended up being pretty colicky until she was, like, six months old that I couldn't I couldn't even think of it. And then I had all that baby weight to lose because I of all that candy I ate. So I kinda started on, like, a little health journey to, lose weight. So I wasn't even thinking about getting pregnant, but I was researching my options for when the time came because I knew I just didn't wanna have one child.
Speaker 1
Sure.
Speaker 3
So when we started talking about it, I kinda started dragging him to those birth network meetings. They would have movie screenings, and that's back when that, business of being born first came out. And so they had, like, a at our local library, they had a screening of it. So I made my husband come because So I was like, you can't just tell me we're not doing something if you haven't even seen the other side of what I'm proposing here. Mhmm. So I took I took him to that. I took him they did a screening of orgasmic birth. I took him to that. And he kinda came around and he was like, okay. Well, you know, when the time comes, I'll meet with midwives, but I'm not you know, I'm agreeing to it right away, but I wanna see what they have to say. So, luckily for me, it took longer to get pregnant the second time. So I was able to, you know, really work on him, I think, during that time of, you know, we're really we're trying to have this big we were we're trying to have another baby. It's taking a really long time. It's because, you know, we're disagreeing about what stage we need to be on.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 3
And, so I think when it finally when I when I finally found out I was pregnant with my second baby, he was, I'd say, like, ninety percent, you know, on board with we're gonna have a home birth. We're gonna do this. That I just needed to sign midwives. So when I was trying to get pregnant, I had joined this local kind of crunchy mom online forum group, where I met a woman who had had a home birth with her first baby. And she took me out to coffee, and we had just the most amazing conversation about her birth. And so I got her midwife's number, and then, another local woman who had had both of her babies at home, her mom was a home birth midwife. So I got her number, and I think I have one other one too. So, anyway, I set up interviews when I got pregnant with my second with these home birth midwives. And I met with all of them, and we kinda tossed around between, like, you know, which one we're gonna hire. We end up taking one of them, hired her, and but I still kinda had my foot in, like, the, you know, what if of the other medical world, so I was doing dual care. And that made my husband Mhmm. More comfortable too. I was doing dual care with my OB and not telling her that I was planning a home birth with a home birth midwife. And so I was, you know, going through the motions with the OB. I was having a very healthy pregnancy because I had lost almost a hundred pounds before getting pregnant with him and wasn't eating all that sugar and was much more informed about diet and exercise being an issue while you're pregnant and Mhmm. Affecting your health. So I you know, she kept warning me, you know, you'll probably you might get preeclampsia again. And I was like, I am not getting preeclampsia again. I'm not being induced again. I'm not doing any of that.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 3
Finally, I think I was, like, thirty seven or thirty eight weeks, and she started kinda getting antsy. My baby was measuring kind of big, and she was, like, you know, I think she was starting to think we're gonna just go ahead and be induced, and I just kinda I just told her. I said, you know what? I'm I'm having this baby at home.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 3
I told her to OB that. Yeah. Well, she just lost it.
Speaker 1
What'd she do?
Speaker 3
She she disagreed with me. She told me that my baby you know, good luck. Hope your baby doesn't die. Ugh. Then she called my dad. I couldn't even believe it. What? I was a married woman pregnant with my second baby, and she calls my dad, which I probably put his number, like, on my, like, emergency contact or something in my paperwork.
Speaker 1
They didn't, like, know each other. They just she just
Speaker 3
No. She just called my dad to tell him I know. It was crazy. It was absolutely crazy. The the last conversation I had with her, she was like, well, good luck. You know? Let me know how it goes type thing. So after I had him at home and I had a awesome, you know, birth announcement put together that said, like, born at home, I mailed her one. So I'm sure she liked that. But so my second my second baby was a great home birth, born at home, forty two weeks to the day when he was finally born. I spent two weeks almost, like, from thirty nine to forty one weeks trying to figure out how to get him out of my body. Mhmm. And, you know, like, oh, my grandma scrub the floor and you go into labor. Well, none of that worked. You know? Spicy food doesn't didn't work. Walking around the mall didn't work. And I will say it did a little bit of a mental number on me. I was due with him in January. And when January thirty first rolled over to February first, I was like, oh, man. This is not
Speaker 1
It's hard.
Speaker 3
This is not what what I was even planning. And, well, not only that, but my first was born in March. So she has a February birthday. And I just did I had never wanted to have one February baby, let alone two. So, anyway, when I finally gave up at, like, forty one weeks, I was like, forget it. Stay in there forever, kid. I don't even care. I'm done worrying about it. Yeah. Finally, my labor started very very subtly in the afternoon. Oh, wow. That's a contraction. Ten minutes later, oh, there's another contraction. That's weird. Why is that why would I anybody think that's weird? Forty two weeks pregnant? I don't know. You know, you should kinda know it's coming, but you're like, oh, at that point, you're thinking I'm never going into labor. But
Speaker 1
Right. Exactly.
Speaker 3
Is it it was a nice, slow, easy progression of I mean, like, contractions are not easy, but those early ones are. They sure as heck are compared to Pitocin. And, like, I could I cooked my daughter dinner. I gave her a bath. I took a shower. I had tea. I tried to lay down. Like, I did I just kept you know, like, I swept my floor. I didn't even call my midwife until I I'd say his labor started in the afternoon, probably, like, one, two in the afternoon. I didn't even call my midwife. Actually, I didn't call her at all. My husband finally called her at, like, three in the morning or something, because I at that point, I couldn't even call her anymore. I was like, did you call her yet? But my husband, he, went into, like, cleaning so he's cleaning the house and going to buy Gatorade and doing all kinds of stuff that I was like, didn't even matter, and shading and showering himself because we I actually hired a birth photographer for that birth. So I don't know if he thought he needed to look good or what. But I thought
Speaker 1
he'd say he'd say he'd be spraying cologne.
Speaker 3
I know.
Speaker 1
That's funny.
Speaker 3
But the, the woman I hired to take my birth pictures was that first woman I met and had coffee with and talked to her about having her first baby at home. So it was it was just I actually gave her a heads up before I even called my midwife, which was kinda strange. But, yeah, I was born at home at, like, just I think it was just before eight in the morning. My brain's kinda fuzzy at the details now, but, I do remember my my oldest daughter. She was almost four, and I heard her on the baby monitor. She had just woken up. She slept all night while I was laboring. And, I just felt like the labor, like, it never like, I kept thinking in my head, like, it's gotta get that hard. Like, I've gotta be on the brink of death like I was last time because this baby is not coming out until I get that bad. And when I was thinking that, my body starts pushing on its own. Mhmm. And I'm sitting I was I was kinda like a I'm ahead of a private birther. So, I had a birth pool set up in the middle of the room, and I had tried getting in it. And I there was a mid my midwife and her assistant midwife, she had come, and my birth photographer and my husband. That's all that was in my house. Mhmm. But when I got in that birth pool, I felt like everybody was staring at me.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because they probably were.
Speaker 3
Couldn't get they weren't though because they're the photographer's pictures. They show the midwives sleeping on the couch. Nobody was looking at me. It was all in my head. So I got I I just was in the pool for, like, five minutes. I was like, yeah. Forget that. Can't do that. Got out of the pool, went into my tiny little bathroom, shut the door, and just was by myself. And my husband would kind of peek in. I'd be like, get out of here. My midwife, I think she came in one time, the whole time she was at my house to check heart tones one time and then left. And I didn't see her again until I was sitting on the toilet kinda rocking with and I had heard well, I had heard her told me, you know, do you feel pressure? I think your water's gonna break. And I was like, you know, I just feel lots of crap going on. Yeah. And I heard her I had heard my daughter wake up, and my husband said, you know, Heather brings up. She wants to, she wants to say hi. And I was like, I don't want her to see me like this. And he goes, well, you know, when you get a break. And I was like, there's no breaks.
Speaker 1
It's breaking her in here. What I'm doing. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. It's like, at that point, there's no break. Bring her in here really quick. Get her out of here. So he did. I gave her a kiss in the bathroom. She got out. The next thing I know, my body I'm, like, sinking. This is this is gotta get, like, way worse. You know? This is gonna be, like, a two day labor, but then my body starts pushing.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 3
So I'm, like, I think I'm pushing in here, and my midwife jumps up. She peeks her head in. She goes, yeah. Not on the toilet. Get in your pool.
Speaker 1
How'd you feel about how'd you feel about that just that, like, shift being told what to do? Was it like, oh, thank you. That's such a great suggestion, or was it like this in power?
Speaker 3
I think I was like yeah. I think it was a good suggestion because I hadn't even thought that I was that close to birthing. I didn't even realize that I was literally, like, minutes from giving birth at that time. Mhmm. So when she was like, you know, your pool's ready. Why didn't you get in the pool? I was like, hey. You know? Why didn't I think of that? So I just hopped in the pool, and then, of course, I felt like this baby's way bigger at forty two weeks. And my last one was at thirty seven weeks. So I was pushed I was like, hit. The head's not gonna fit. The head's too big. It's not gonna fit. And she's like, well, we can see the head, so you're doing it. You're doing fine. So it took me, like, twenty minutes to push him out. Nice. And, he was nine pounds six ounces, and my first was seven pounds seven ounces. So about two pounds bigger.
Speaker 1
Did you happen
Speaker 3
to And no tearing.
Speaker 1
That's what I was gonna ask.
Speaker 3
Yep. No no tearing. Nobody told me to push. Nobody was telling me to hold my breath. I just did what I wanted, and she just kinda did, like, a hot compress on my my bottom, which felt amazing. Yeah. It was to the point where I couldn't not push, which is exactly what you want to have happen. Mhmm. So, yeah, that was great. And and, you know, did a herbal bath and walked up. I I had them in my basement.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 3
So walked up walked up the stairs, got in my bed after that. My husband made me, French toast, which has become the tradition now because I had French toast after my first in the hospital. So then Oh, that's cute. After my and and my husband's not a big cooker. So when they're like, oh, he can make you something to eat, I was like, oh, man. It's gonna be frozen pizza or French toast.
Speaker 1
For, like, frozen pizza. Yeah. A can of soup.
Speaker 3
Right. So I was like, well, let's do French toast again. It sounds and it was morning. So I was like, it's breakfast food. Why not? So, oh, I delivered my placenta in my pool before my herbal bath with that baby. Mhmm. And, took, like, little over an hour. I don't remember it being a big thing. No way pulling on it. It just was like, oh, there it is. So, yeah, when I did that, I was like, oh, man. I am like superwoman. I can do anything. You know? I had a nine and a half pound baby in my basement. I can do whatever I want. So
Speaker 1
And I'm sure your husband that was very healing and restorative probably for your husband too.
Speaker 3
Yeah. He instantly became, like, biggest Homebrew fan ever.
Speaker 1
Nice. That's true.
Speaker 3
Usually, the guys do. Yeah. It's usually the guys do.
Speaker 1
They're great cheerleaders.
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. He was like, oh, yeah. My wife, you know, she just had a baby in the basement. Yeah. It it was amazing. And it was amazing, that we had a son. Mhmm. You know, he had wanted a son. My husband's an only son. So it's kind of like the big thing, you know, we gotta have a boy. And so the whole thing was just great. So then couple years later, I was actually shocked when I found out I was pregnant with my third baby when when my second baby was only two. And, and we had moved and we were actually built the house we live in now we were building. We were living in a tiny little rental house. It was actually only one bedroom. And we already had two kids in there. So I found myself pregnant with another baby. And I was just like, oh, man. This is just I just had a lot of emotions about that at the time. But I was like, well, we'll make it work. You know? Whatever. It is what it is, and we'll deal with it. So, I actually didn't have any thought of calling anybody else and then the new wife that had helped me the last time. And we had moved an hour away, so I actually called her and made sure that she would come out to where I had moved out to. And, she said, oh, yeah. Sure. You know? I go out there all the time. So I was like, great. So we kinda just did that, the same care with her. And then, I don't know why I was still stuck on that dual care. I found a different OB practice, and I started seeing them. But this time, I was like, you know what? I am just I can't even deal with doing that my whole pregnancy, and now I have two other kids to drag around these appointments with me. So I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it. I'm gonna have that mid mid, pregnancy ultrasound, and then I'm gonna be done with them. Mhmm. So that's what I did. I I saw them until I was twenty weeks. I had a ultrasound, and I told them I would call them back to make my next appointment. I just never called. And they didn't call me Yeah. Which is kinda weird. You you'd think that somebody, you know, in your practice who's twenty weeks pregnant is all of a sudden they just stopped coming to their prenatal. No. And you think you'd be like, how are you doing?
Speaker 1
That's high volume care right there. They don't even notice.
Speaker 3
Right. So I we were hoping to be in our new house, which was not happening. There is no way. Our it was everything was building a house is like a huge can of worms that I would never recommend. So I was like, oh, man. I guess I'm having this baby and this tiny little rental. You know? We're gonna make the most of it. And I was like, my son, my who was two when I got pregnant, I was actually quite worried about how he would do, because he was actually, we didn't know it when he was two. I just knew something was up with him. But when he was four, he was diagnosed with autism. So when he was two and I was pregnant, and he was nonverbal and he was still, he was very developmentally delayed. And so I was like, how am I gonna do this? I want my babies, like, my first was at my birth with him. Mhmm. So I was like, I want them at at my birth, but I was worried about how he was gonna do if I got vocal Sure. Or anything like that. So that was kind of on my mind. And then my sister wanted to be at that birth, which, I wasn't even sure I was gonna call her until I when I actually did make the call, which was, about an hour before I delivered.
Speaker 1
She made it though?
Speaker 3
So she made it. I was basically crowning when she walked in.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So that worked out. Because I when I told my husband I was in labor, when I finally told him to call her, I told him I said, tell her don't talk to me. Don't look at me. You know, just don't say anything. She can come, but not to say anything. So my sister at the time, had had no no babies of her own. And when I was planning my first home birth with my second child, she had told me she had this dream that I hemorrhaged to death. Woah. Yeah. Before I delivered, of course. And I and I was like, I still have to have the guts to now, you know, have this baby at home. And when you're telling me that's right so she had told me That
Speaker 1
is insane. She had
Speaker 3
the dream again.
Speaker 1
That is insane to me. Like, how how do you not have a filter and sensitivity? I mean, that's insane. Ugh. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3
She no. She she was basically, like, you know, you're my sister and I love you, and I'm worried about you. So this is what I dreamt. I know. I had told her that. I said, what? Never ever ever do that. Don't ever put that in any pregnant woman's head.
Speaker 1
I'm sure she's,
Speaker 3
like nine months pregnant.
Speaker 1
She's thinking she's being helpful in some weird way.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. I'm not sure. So she wanted to be at the my third birth. So I was like, well, I'll think about it. I'll think about it. Anyway, she ended up she did make it with, like, a second to spare because at the very last minute, I was like, well, okay. Call her, but tell her not to talk to me. Mhmm. So with that labor, I woke up in labor in the morning at, like, forty one and a half weeks pregnant. And I woke up and I was like, oh, yeah. There's a contraction, you know. And I was like, oh, and there's, you know, and some kind of timing up timing them. And I was kinda I was out on the couch because we only had one bedroom. So my son was still in my bed. And then, like, the front part of the bedroom, my daughter was in her, twin bed. So I was laying on the couch, and I was just I told my husband. I was like, I think I'm having contractions. But I was kinda trying to snooze through them. I wasn't really timing them. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go take a shower. And, you know, I was like, call the midwife and tell her I think I'm in labor, but tell her, it's not time to come yet. Mhmm. Oh, that's the other part I forgot was, when I was about thirty eight weeks pregnant, my midwife took on a client with my same due date. And I had emotions about it because I had this feeling that that that client and I the other woman and I, I said the minute I knew she hired her, I said, we're gonna have our baby on the same day. Mhmm. And my midwife said, oh, no. Don't you know, that never happens. Don't worry about that. And I said, I just know it. I can feel it.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Never say
Speaker 3
never. Baby on the I said, we're going to I just knew it. I said, we're gonna have our baby on the same day. I just know it. And and I hired you first. I've been working with you since the beginning of my pregnancy, so you are coming here. And she goes, oh, you know, don't worry about that. That never happens. That's all she would say about it. So I go into labor. I get in the shower. I said, call her. Tell her I'm in labor, but don't tell her tell her I don't want her here yet. Just tell her I'm in labor. So he does. And then, we we lived in a tiny little house. We have a tiny little hot water heater. So he had come in and he goes, you know, Heather, you're using all the hot water. You need to you know, if you want a water birth, you should probably get out of the shower. And I was so mad at him that he had told me to get out of the shower because it felt so good. Mhmm. But I knew I knew he was right. So I said, alright. You know, in my head, I'll get out of the stupid shower. We'll let the hot water tank still up. And when I got out of the shower, I said, you know what? This is a little bit more intense, and I think you better call that midwife and tell her to go ahead and come out here now. She has an hour drive. So he goes, oh, okay. So I went and I locked myself in my in the bedroom. All the kids were up at this time, so they were all they all got up and were watching cartoons in the living room. And I shut my bedroom door, and I just laid down in my bed, and I was just riding those contractions. And I just felt like they were coming faster. And I would say this labor felt stronger sooner than my second, but felt way more gradual. I have way much more time. So when he called her, she got out to my house. He had come my husband came in and and said that she was there and that they were setting up the pool already. And, I guess what had happened is she had walked in, and he was doing dishes and, you know, the kids were messing around. And he's like, hey. You know, like, he thought we had all this time, and she she said she could hear me in the bedroom moaning through my contractions. And she was like, are we doing a water birth? Because if we are
Speaker 1
Yeah. Get to it.
Speaker 3
We need the school set up. Right. Right. And he was like, what? Already? Like, just confused. Like, he didn't realize it was going that fast. So, like I said, I was oh, and then I remember I was supposed to laying in this bed and occasionally I would get up and move around and but I could see feet under the door. Maybe somebody was stopping outside the door listening to me. And I was like, you you know, those, you know, they're spying on me. They're they're and I I knew who it was. It was either the midwife or the the premise midwife listening, probably timing my who knows what they're doing. But I was like, you know what? This house is not that big. I could hear them walking back and forth across the floor. I could hear them.
Speaker 1
Get some freaking privacy?
Speaker 3
I know. And I was in my bedroom by myself in the dark, and, you know, my husband would come in. He'd be like, you're not alone. And he tried to rub my children. I was like, I am definitely not alone. Get out of here.
Speaker 1
Like That's funny.
Speaker 3
Obviously, I'm not alone. I'm with child. Like, you don't need to be in here. Get out of my face.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So I'm a very private birther, or at least laborer. And as far as, you know, when the birth comes, I'm like, yeah. I want all my kids to watch. But, so the next thing I knew, I was really kinda like I could feel that baby moving down in my bed that's not, you know, not set up for a Lambert. Nothing. And my midwife had come in the room, and she said, what do you feel, Heather? And I said, the baby is coming. And she was like, your pool's ready. Why don't you go get in your pool? And so I did. I I was like, okay. Let's go. I jumped in the pool. Next thing you know, probably within three minutes of jumping in the pool, I had my baby in my arms. And, it was it was good. It was good except I had I felt like I told the midwife that I wanted to catch the baby myself. Mhmm. But she I don't know if she didn't hear me, but she had helped. We had both caught the baby. And the one thing I do like, I I didn't have a birth photographer, but we took video of that birth. She put a hat on the baby. I I really didn't want that. That was kinda when in in our birthing area, hats were just kinda on the way out. Everybody was still having babies when I had my first home birth. And and it was a new idea when I was kinda starting to have my second home birth of we don't need to have these babies. Mhmm. So I kinda not wanted to her to have a hat on and, you know, and then I was like, there was a hat on my baby and I mean, there's still a very good home birth. Mhmm. It was a good experience. And my my son did great. I I had walked out of that bedroom and my son was watching Spongebob and I could hear it was like, you know, who is there pineapple under the sea? So I get in this pool and the TV's right above me and I was like, oh, no. I am not giving birth to SpongeBob spare pants.
Speaker 1
Fair enough.
Speaker 3
And they're all laugh right. They're laughing. So they said, oh, you know, we'll turn it off. So they did. They turned it off, and and he did okay. And and my sister who had walked in, yeah, just as just in the nick of time was holding him, I think, while I delivered and roared this baby out. Beautiful. So it was good. That's the sun. It took a little while longer. I I couldn't get it out in the pool. I wasn't really having a lot of contractions. Midwife gave me some herbs. I went to the toilet. Not a lot was working to get this thing out. Oh, and right after I delivered that baby, they're all laughing because they're like, guess who else is in labor today who's having the baby right now? Mhmm. I said, oh, yeah. I know it. I knew it. I knew it was from the day, you know, you took her on. We were having our baby the same day. So now, she was sending her her backup to this other client, and her backup was alone. So she's kinda like, you know, we gotta get the placenta out. And, you know, I I I hate to say, like, I kinda felt rushed, but maybe I did, you know, subconsciously, like, okay. Sounds like it. The placenta the placenta comes out in a bowl. I get an herbal bath. I'm not even in my bed yet, and, my midwife is gone. She's gone to this other lady in labor. And she was like, you know, the the assistant can wrap up. Right? You know, it it's fine. And I said, okay. So I did my herbal bath, and I think I got into bed. And I I mean, like, the minute I got in my bed, that assistant was gone to the next one. Wow. So, like, there's all, you know, dishes and stuff. And my sister was kinda like, oh, you know, they don't help you clean up and, you know, like Yeah. She's like, wow. They're they're gone really fast, you know. And I was like, well, you know, somebody else was in labor. But I guess I would say maybe that did bother me Sure. That they rushed off like that.
Speaker 1
Well, when you pay someone, you know, however, a couple thousand dollars to literally be at your birth and postpartum and yeah.
Speaker 3
Right. She did the newborn exam, while I was in the herbal bath. She actually asked me if it was okay if she weighed the baby and everything when I wasn't there to watch her do it. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 1
you know? Okay. Totally rushed you.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, well, you know, whatever. Just bring me my baby at that point into my herbal bath because I wanted to nurse her and
Speaker 1
Well, and that's the thing. And that that's what's so frustrating is, you know, what are you supposed to say at that point? You know, that that's the most, like, irritating thing is is what? You're gonna be I mean, you know, also on a deeper level, we've been socialized to be submissive as women. We've been socialized to be polite, you know, and all of this stuff. And so, you know, she's putting you in a position where you have to be okay with it even though you're actually not.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 1
You know, it'd be super weird. I mean, of course, I don't actually think it would have been because it's, like, you know, if we had a different culture to actually say, you know what? I'm feeling really rushed. This actually is not feeling good. I do wanna see my baby get weighed. So why don't you just, like, deal with that and not run a practice that puts me in a position where, you know, you can't give me the full the care that we agreed I would get.
Speaker 3
Right. Right. Pisses me off. I really, really you're right. Well, and I really like this midwife too. I mean, I I adored her. And Of course. So I felt like, you know, she wouldn't, you know, she wouldn't rush me on purpose, like, you know, obvious And right. And you can It's hard it's hard now from coming from a midwife's perspective too. It it it sucks so bad when you've got two moms in labor at the same time. I mean, how do you choose? Obviously, you choose the one who calls you first. But
Speaker 1
You choose the one who calls you first and you I mean, I would say you run a practice with enough solid backup support that has also spent time and bonded with all of your clients so that the other client who's in labor gets a full consistent team who just wouldn't result of you because you're you're with somebody, and you're gonna be there for at least three hours postpartum because that's what's what's right and that's what you expect.
Speaker 3
Right. I
Speaker 1
mean, there are this is obviously another conversation, but there are models that midwives could follow if they wanted to, you know, where where this stuff wouldn't have to happen. And I'm feeling particularly impassioned about that as I'm hearing your story because I just interviewed another mom the other day who had the exact same story, who had a mid midwife show up, and she was gone before the placenta was out. She left, and she did then the placenta and postpartum was left to the assistant. And, you know, it just pisses me off. But like you said, as a birth worker and and, you know, for you as a midwife and me as a midwifery student and and who loves and works with midwives, I do see it from their perspective. And it's it's challenging and
Speaker 3
now I do.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And and and, you know, but putting you in the position as the mother and because you love her and respect her and admire her and because you're a woman and have empathy for her position, you were willing to say, okay. I understand. But it left you
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 1
With this, like, feeling.
Speaker 3
It absolutely did. So, her apprentice, I think she made me a smoothie. I was in bed. She left. My sister's like, oh, man. Now there's all these dishes and, ew, there's a gross blender I have to clean now. You know? So oh, that's oh, that's the other thing. So then, normally, my midwife would come back for a one day postpartum and then either a three or seven day and then a two week and then a six week. So, the next day, I get a text from my midwife that says, you know, just the apprentice is gonna come. Okay? And I was kinda like, you know
Speaker 1
What can you say?
Speaker 3
Right. Like, you you kinda just rushed out to go help another woman, which I understand. But now you're not even coming back for my one day. So I was like, well, so I act I think I actually texted her back, and I was like, so why aren't you coming? Mhmm. And she was like she said she had her daughter had a a soccer tournament or something across the state, and that she would make it up for me. She would bring me dinner for my three day.
Speaker 1
And and, again, not to not to beat a dead horse here, but if her model included a team of midwives that you had bonded with and that you Right. Already knew. You know? Because also from from I'm thinking from the birth worker's perspective, you know, we know how stressful that is, that she's trying to balance, oh my gosh, her daughters, you know, you're going into labor and she knows her daughter's things the next day and then another woman goes into labor and she's trying to be everything. She's wearing twenty hats at once and that is so stressful to the midwife or doula. And so I totally feel for that and have been there and all of that. And, you know, I I I do think it is this larger conversation that needs to be had in the birth worker community of, you know, there are other models. We can be creative here. You know? There are ways that this all could have been prevented, and it's a normal and common story, unfortunately, you know, that Right. You know, they're stressed out and and you're feeling gypped. And and all of that could have been avoided if if she worked with people who you already knew and bonded with and loved and trusted just like her, you know, so that it wouldn't have been a big deal. But sending, like, a stranger who just went to your birth and yeah.
Speaker 3
Well, she wasn't a stranger. In her in her defense, I didn't know I do know her, apprentice. She's now her own midwife also. But, I didn't know her. She had never done any prenatal care with me, but I didn't know her. And, it's not that I didn't trust her, but she was pretty new to attending birth at the time. And, I don't know. I guess, like, as the consumer of midwifery services, I felt like I hired the midwife to do the my appointments. Like, she did she couldn't she could've at least asked me ahead of time, like, if I can't make it, can my assistant fill in? Like, none of that was discussed, like, ahead of
Speaker 1
time. Right. It's actually So It could have been avoided if she if she had helped you manage your expectations more accurately. Right. If if she had been transparent and, you know, and, you know, transparency is a big issue in midwifery. You know? I I don't find people to be transparent enough, and this is such an awesome example of being like, hey. This is what happens. When when she told you for whatever reason there was another client with a due date same as yours, that was a beautiful opportunity to say, let's explore what it can look like if this does happen. You know? And here's what it's gonna look like, and let's prepare for that. And why don't you spend some time with this assistant and dada or whatever, you know, so that it took some of the edge off.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. I mean, and and regards to that, this other person, she that other woman actually did call the midwife first and say I'm in labor. And then I guess I my husband called right after her with that first call, the, oh, Heather's in labor, but don't come yet. And then it was when he called the second time and said, Heather said come now, that was the first come now call she got Mhmm. Was so she I mean, but what if that other lady had said, oh, no. I need you here now. Right. Who I mean, like, that could've played out completely differently. Mhmm. Anyway Stressful. Yeah. Yeah. So she didn't come in one day. It was fine. I mean, I I knew her assistant. I'm friends with her. She's a great midwife. It was just me like, oh, you know, she I you know, I'm like, oh, well, everybody's like, well, she ran out on you and now she's not coming back here one day. And and she did bring me dinner for my three days. She made a great she actually taught me how to make it. We call it magical midwife stew. It's like a a beef barley stew. It's so good. So she made that. I mean, we had a a good postpartum time and, it was actually after that birth that I kinda thought, like, you know, maybe I could help women have home births. Mhmm. And I had asked her about it and she was she was very she was like, oh, absolutely. And you living out here now, an hour, you know, out in the in the country versus where I live, it would actually even be helpful for me to have an assistant out here
Speaker 1
in this area.
Speaker 3
In this area of the state. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, she was like, absolutely. You know, when you're you know, you can why don't you you could come with me to appointments. You can bring the baby. And then when you're ready, let me know and you can start shadowing me. And my other assistant at birth, it would be the three of us, you know, you could you could observe. And, so I was like, okay. Great. So, you know, it's it's kind of an exciting time starting to work with her. And I did go and do a a midwifery assistant training. And when I came back from that, I had my first birth with her. So I had started, you know, I would call it apprenticing. This particular midwife, she does she says she does not take apprentices. She only takes on assistance, you know, whatever you wanna call it. So I had started attending births with her and and doing different things doing appointments with her, and it was a lot of fun. And it was all new and very exciting for me. And, the second birth I ever did was my first solo catch Nice. By myself. So that was super exciting, and, I made a great friend. That woman is now a very good friend of mine. And, yeah, it was just it was great. So I had been working with her, you know, attending birth with her. And my third baby, she was she had turned two a couple months after her second birthday, and I I'm actually a runner. So I was training for this marathon, my third full marathon, and I was like, it's really weird. Like, I don't remember the last time I had a period. Maybe it's because I'm doing all I'm doing all this running, you know, maybe. And I just was kinda like, whatever. And I kind of ignored it for a while, and I ran my marathon. And then I was like, you know, something's up. So I took a pregnancy test and found out I was pregnant.
Speaker 1
Wow.
Speaker 3
And I I was very upset. I was, actually preventing pregnancy. I wasn't planning a pregnancy. I was deep into working. I was not only working now with that one midwife, I had started working with a second midwife.
Speaker 2
And
Speaker 3
I was really, really just trying to get experience and found myself expecting a baby. And I was like, wow. I mean, like, you know, kinda like with my third, like, we don't know what I'm gonna do. I guess I'm having a baby. But this time, I was like, I I don't know why I was just like, I wanna do this one different. I I'm not gonna be running to that OB for dual care. I don't need that. You know? Right. And then I was kinda like, is that, you know, like, always in the back of my head, I'm like, could I do this just by myself? Do I, you know, do I even need to have a midwife there? Mhmm. Talk to my husband about it. He's like, whatever you want. Yeah. You know, whatever you whatever you wanna do. Right. At this point, whatever you wanna do, I'll support you. So I the first midwife that I had originally started apprenticing with, who has been my midwife twice, I brought it up one time in her car while we're driving to prenatals. And then she knew I was pregnant. I, like, sent her a picture of the test, you know, like, oh my god. Look at this. Crazy. So she knew I was pregnant. But I was like I told her, I said, you know, my husband and I were kind of considering to do this unassisted. And, like, I could tell she wasn't comfortable with it. Mhmm. She was like, well, why would you wanna do that? You know, I do all my apprentices' births for free. So it's not like it's gonna cost you anything. And, like, I don't know how to describe it. Like, every time I would see her after I first brought it up, she would say something bad about unassisted. Or she would talk about, like, oh, did you see those new she would see that did you see those new, birth home birth statistics home birth state safety statistics that came out, but they include unassisted births in those statistics, and they shouldn't. And I was just like, okay. So obvious you know? And I had finally, I had asked her. I said, you know, you said she had she was a mother to, I believe, eight babies of her own. And I said, you had said you had some of yours unassisted. And, you know, she said, well, I I did because back then I couldn't sign a midwife and I hated it. I hated that birth that was on the so she said that. And then we would go to her client's houses to where I was observing her do prenatal appointments. And the next thing I know, she would be talking to her client about the danger of unassisted death. And then while she was while she was talking about it, she would glance at me. So it was I felt like she was talking to me Yeah. For sure. Through her client. Right. So then kind of the one day we're in the car and she she had said, like I was like, well, I guess she was like maybe she said, you know, are you guys still considering unassisted? And I was like, well, we're we're we're considering all of our options. I haven't decided anything yet. It's still early. Got lots of time to think about that. And she said, well, me and her other apprentice, she goes, we'll be there anyway. And when she said that, it really bothered me.
Speaker 1
Yeah. What does that even mean?
Speaker 3
I still hadn't even invited her.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 3
And I still told her I was completely undecided. And I felt like she just invited herself into my space. And Mhmm. That's my that's my space. Like, you don't come unless I invite you. Like, what do you mean you're gonna be there anyway? You're not gonna be there if I don't call you. You know what I mean? Like, the whole thing. So I was talking to the other midwife that I was now parentising with also, Because the first with the first midwife, she was trying to keep me, like, geographically in my area. It was very slow. So I just really wanted to get more birth. So I reached out to this other midwife. She kinda took me on. We hit it off. Great friends with her now. And she was like, you know what? More power to you. Mhmm. You wanna have your baby by yourself wherever you want? She was she had three babies of her own who are all hospital versed. And she had said, if I ever have a fourth, that's how I would do it. She was, I could bring my baby out, you know, lion king style and be like, you know, is this you know? So she was just super supportive.
Speaker 1
Nice. You needed that.
Speaker 3
And I absolutely needed that. So one day, I was on Facebook and, gosh, her name is escaping me now. Carla Hartley. Carla Hartley had posted something about unassisted birthers and midwives. And I can't remember what exactly she said, but I had wrote on there. I wrote thank you. Pushed enter. The next thing I know, my phone was going crazy with text messages from the first midwife telling me that she was taking me off call
Speaker 1
Oh, jeez.
Speaker 3
That I was that her and I had different philosophies
Speaker 1
Well, that is that is true.
Speaker 3
That, she didn't even know why I wanted to be a midwife if I didn't want a midwife at my birth.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. She's so threatened.
Speaker 3
And that yeah. And that I hurt her feelings that she saw what I posted on Facebook, which was it was two two words. It was thank you. But she saw that and that she needed time to think. And from then on, I was off call with her, and I just was
Speaker 1
How controlling.
Speaker 3
So And I was so upset though.
Speaker 1
And it's it's it's not funny, but it's, I don't know the right word for it. It's she she only further pushed you towards unassisted. Like, all of that energy is only validating why you would want to not have a midwife there as she is representing midwives. You know? Like, it's it's so counterproductive. And I guess as a larger generalization, it's so counterproductive to judge people, you know, because often we are put we push them away from the thing we don't want them to do by judging them to do it.
Speaker 3
Right. Well, her reaction sealed the deal. Exactly. I immediately told my husband, I am doing this by myself. Mhmm. I don't want anybody there. Just you and the kids, we are doing this. You know, that sealed the deal as far as any decision making at all. I mean, I was just like and then I felt so upset and kind of saddened because I I had this relationship with this midwife. Mhmm. And and it was just over in an instant.
Speaker 1
I mean, to get
Speaker 3
over. Right?
Speaker 1
To get dumped over, you know, following your very personal truths is pretty sad. Right.
Speaker 3
Right. So, yeah, that kinda sealed the deal. And from that point on, I just started kinda planning on a home birth at or or an assisted home birth. The other midwife I was working with, she did offer a few times. She was like, you know, if you need me, you can call me, but you don't have to. And I was like, of course. You know? That is and I know I could call any of the midwives I work with. Mhmm. Maybe there, you know, if I needed them to, but she never, like, pressured me. That baby I was due in the middle of July with. And I thought, you know what? I was like, kinda heard about people, you know, having their babies outside. And Michigan is kinda cool than any other time of the year except, like, July and August. Maybe we could have this baby outside, and we have a great spot. We have a pond right off the back of our house. And so I started telling my husband about that, but, of course, that particular summer was kind of on the cool side. So I had some anxiety as my due date got closer about where I was gonna actually be able I was like, if it's fifty degrees at night, and I go into labor and I'm having this baby at night, I'm not doing it outside. It's fifty degrees. It's way too cold. So somehow I got it in my head. I was like, you know what? I don't think this baby can't come out until August because it's gonna be too cold. And I really wanna do this outside and I just I want it to be perfect and, you know, this is gonna be my big, you know, unassisted birth. You know? I gotta show that in my life that it's gonna be great. And, so, you know, forty weeks rolling around, forty one weeks rolling around, forty two weeks rolling around. I'm like, yep. Baby ain't coming out yet. Not August. So the morning of August first, I woke up and I was like forty two weeks and like five days pregnant. And my husband I was like, oh, I feel kinda weird this morning, but feel okay. I mean, but I feel weird. So my husband, he goes, well, what does that mean? Should I go to work? And he worked, like, twenty minutes away. I said, yeah. Go to work. You know? This could take all day. Who knows? Just go to work. I'll tell you later. So oh, and, of course, my, my other midwife friend, left the day before she drove down to Florida for a week. So she was gone. I couldn't call her even if I wanted her to. So he goes to work, and I'm start you know, got this contraction timer thing on my phone. I'm like, oh, you know, they're, like, eight minutes apart. I have these contractions. They're, like, eight minutes apart. You know, whatever. Okay. I guess I'm in labor. And I think I called my husband, like, an hour later, and I said, you know what? You I come home at lunch. Come home at lunchtime. That'll be a good time. And so he was okay. So oh, my son had since been, you know, diagnosed with autism, and so we have in home therapy for him. And the therapist was scheduled twelve thirty to two thirty. He goes, well, you know, I gave her a heads up that you're in labor. You probably gonna have the baby today. She says just keep her posted. You know, do you still want her to come out? And I said, yes. Have her come do his therapy. He's not gonna have his therapy. Just come in labor. You know? Mhmm. So the therapist comes. My husband comes home. Oh, and, you know, I was like, I want Wendy's. I'm gonna go get Wendy's. And my my husband's like, you're not driving anywhere. The nearest Wendy's from here is, like, twenty minutes one way. So that's forty minutes round trip fuel. So you are not driving anywhere. I'll go get Wendy's if you really want it, but I don't think you're gonna want it by the time I get back. I was like, yeah. Go get it. So he went and got Wendy's. The the tech who comes to my house who's working with my son doesn't know I'm in labor. I keep going back in my room. I'm watching TV, and I'm shutting the door. And then I would come out, and I'd be like, y'all, you know, hey. And then I'd go back in my room, you know, every five minutes. And, he comes back with the Wendy's. I took one bite out of the hamburger. I was like, yeah. I can't eat that.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Your husband's like a total mid midwife now.
Speaker 3
I know. So I actually I got in the shower and then got out of the shower because the state oh, he was, you know, the same thing with the hot water. So we were actually planning a a outdoor water burst. So he's like, I think I gotta get this pool set up, and I gotta get it filled up and stuff. So I'm like, alright. So I'm in my room, and the therapist is still here. And I'm in my room, and I'm looking. I'm watching him. He's setting stuff up, you know, and and I'm hard laboring now. Like, I put a check's pad down on my carpet, and I was like, this this spot this spot looks great. Forget that out.
Speaker 1
I'm not gonna get anywhere. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 1
Wait. Hold on. Is the is the therapist still there?
Speaker 3
No. Yeah. She's still she's still working with my son. That's awesome. You know?
Speaker 1
Does she know you're in labor yet?
Speaker 3
No. No. She doesn't. I don't think she does.
Speaker 1
That is so funny.
Speaker 3
She doesn't. Yeah. I don't think she does.
Speaker 1
So Where are your other kids? Are they at school?
Speaker 3
No. They're home. Okay. Yeah. They're home. My oldest was nine. So I had told her, I was like, you know, just keep keep the two and a half year old away from me, basically. Like
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Baby I'm
Speaker 3
having a baby today. And I'll come out, you know, and I'll I'll keep my head and be like, you know, oh, good job to my son, and then I'll go back to my room. But, just keeping myself distracted. I I remember I was watching, like, a episode of Two and a Half Men to keep myself distracted. So then I think my husband recognized that, like, labor was moving much faster than, I guess, I thought. And I was like, yeah. You know? I was like, either here or, you know, if that's really ready, this this is great. And he's running with hoses, and he's filling up the pool outside. And I was like, whenever the therapist would leave, you'd have to sign a sheet, like, transferring basically my son from, like, under her care to our care. Okay. So I was I knew it was getting close to two thirty. I knew that this girl I was like, she needs to she needs to leave. Like, somebody needs to assign that sheet, and it's not gonna be me. So I'm yelling out the window to him, go sign the sheet. And he's trying to get the pool set up and he so he comes in. He goes and signs the sheet, and then I watch him. He's I just remember watching him. It's felt like he was just running around with stuff.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And, I yelled out the window and I was like, is she gone yet? And he comes and he comes in, and he's like, oh, she's cleaning up the therapy room. I said, no. You tell her to get out. It's time for her to go. This poor
Speaker 1
this poor lady.
Speaker 3
So he goes down to the therapy room and he says, you know, Heather's in labor. She goes, oh, oh, okay. Okay. I'll be you know, you guys gotta get going, John goes or my husband. He goes, no. We're not going anywhere, but she says the baby's coming, like, now, so you need to leave.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. I I hope you guys laughed about that later together.
Speaker 3
Oh, for sure. For sure. So good. So good. He goes, don't worry about cleaning up. Just she wants you to go. So she leaves. And I was like, is she gone? Is she finally gone? And he goes, yeah. And I said, okay. Because the baby's coming now. This spot was great. This is going down right here. Forget that. And he goes, Heather, the pool is ready.
Speaker 1
He's like, for the love of God.
Speaker 3
He goes, why don't you go get in the pool? And I was like, I'm not gonna make it. And I'll tell you what. We built a a very big house, and it and it's a quite a long walk. I said, I don't think I'm gonna make it out to that pool. And he goes, quit being so dramatic and go get in the pool.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. Everybody tells you to go get in that damn pool.
Speaker 3
I know. I know. So I mustered up everything I could, and I got from my room through the living room out my back door, and I started having contraction in the grass. And I thought I'm either gonna fall down and push a baby out in the grass, or I'm gonna make it to that pool. So I just kept powering through. I hopped in that pool.
Speaker 1
My gosh.
Speaker 3
Yep. The video camera's on.
Speaker 1
He is he has he has set your stage.
Speaker 3
Yeah. He set the stage. My you know, the baby's coming out. He's asking me, do you need towels? Do you need and he's saying something about more towels, and I I was like, calm down. Yeah. The baby is coming out, you know, right now. We don't need whatever. We don't need that. So oh, yeah. And then my third child, my now two and a half year old third child is taking her clothes off.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3
So she wants to go swimming Right. You know, in the pool. So but I had a great birth with I just I pushed her out, and I I had warned him ahead of time, you know, with doing non assisted. I was like, you know, once the head comes out, start a timer because I don't know how big this baby is. And, you know, we don't have we don't have all kinds of time once her head's out. And so he, like, zooms in at the video. It, like, zooms in on my crotch because he's gonna start this timer.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 3
And you you see me you see my hand loop a cord over her head. Cool. And the whole body just shoots out, and I pull her out. And by the time he got back from starting his timer, the baby I had pulled her up out of the water, and I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1
And your little your third your third little is is standing next to the pool ready to get in?
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep. And my oldest was there too. My son who was, he was not he had just got out of that therapy session, and he did not wanna come outside. So that was the only birth he he did not witness. Mhmm. Then he came out right after and Yeah. And it was good. But, yeah, it was just it was great. It was absolutely awesome. And, you know, I caught her myself and there was no hat. And when I when I said give me the towel, there was a towel there. And, you know, she didn't get a ball through it. She didn't need that. I just wiped her face off. She had mac in her water, I mean, at almost forty three weeks Right. Of course. Mhmm. I don't know. I wasn't expecting that. It was my first baby of mine that had mac in her in the water. So I guess I wasn't expecting that. So I was like, oh, give me a towel. I gotta wipe off her face. She's all goofy with this poop. You know? Mhmm. But yeah. Then I I felt afterpains like labor with that with that. And I was like, oh my god. So I'm like, gotta get this placenta out. Mhmm. So I was kinda getting a cord traction myself, and I was like, I just want that thing out of me. And, it still took, like, over an hour though before it finally came out. But I remember wanting it out even more so because I didn't wanna cut her cord. I wanted to burn it. I wanted to take, like, the pictures, the cool pictures of the baby and placenta Mhmm. Right next to each other, you know, still attached. So I was just like, get this thing out of me. And, my husband's like, well, don't just pull it out, you know. And I think he turned the tent for a second. The next thing that he knew, I had it in my hand. And I'm like, give me the bowl.
Speaker 1
You're like a magician. Like, every time he looks, look over here.
Speaker 3
I'm like, give me the bowl. He goes, did you just pull that thing out? I said, well, kind of. I pushed it out too, but I took me a bowl. You know, that was my hand. So You're
Speaker 1
like, get off my back, dude.
Speaker 3
Yeah. From there from there, we had I was like, alright. I'm ready to get out of this to the pool. So from there, we did have a long walk from where we had the baby outside. I went, you know, into the house, used the toilet, got into my bed.
Speaker 1
Did you get did you get your No.
Speaker 3
We did a we did a nice cord burning thing with the kids and, you know, then I got to wave the baby and, you know, did all that.
Speaker 2
And Did
Speaker 1
you get your waffles?
Speaker 3
Oh, French toast.
Speaker 1
Absolutely. French toast. Sorry.
Speaker 3
Nice. Yep. Oh, absolutely. Oh, yeah. I know it's what you know? And, of course, by that time, it's, like, six o'clock at night. What do you want to eat? I'm like, French toast.
Speaker 1
Obviously.
Speaker 3
After every time you have a baby, you want French toast. And I was like, well, that was a tradition. Totally. Now we have to keep doing
Speaker 1
You're like, I'll take the French toast and that six hour old Wendy's.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. No. I don't even know what I think I threw that away. Wendy's not a good idea if you're in active labor. But Yeah. Yeah. So that I mean and it was just fabulous. And, I was you know, I was just like, oh, great. Another girl. My third girl. Wow. But it was it was perfect. She's great. And the date of birth
Speaker 1
How old is she now?
Speaker 3
She's two and a half now.
Speaker 1
Okay. So at the time of her birth, your third was two and a half. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Okay. Gotcha. A big joke around here.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Be careful.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Is this prime time
Speaker 3
for you to Oh, man. Nope. I'm like, oh, can't let that happen again. I don't even know how after being so meticulous and wanting that, like, three to four year spacing between my first two, yeah. I don't know how that worked out. But Mhmm. Yeah. The the free birth, the unassisted birth, was probably the best birth of of my four. Oh, yeah. I mean, I adore my I adore my midwife's assisted home birth. And, you know, now coming from a midwife's perspective, I adore helping women. Mhmm. But there's I don't know what it is about it. This it was just everything my own way. There was, you know, no fear at all in my head while I was in labor about anything at all. There was no poking of me, prodding of me, checking baby, checking heart tones. But, I mean, even my midwife's assisted home birth, I I never had vaginal exams or anything like that. So, I did try to check myself when I was in labor with my fourth my unassisted birth, but there is no reaching anything. Well, let me in the shower. It's like, what am I even doing? That's stupid. I'm not doing that. There's no point.
Speaker 1
Yeah. No no need unless unless it's easy for you. Well, we we have to wrap up, but I wanna I wanna ask you one final question, that's coming up for me. So now that you've had midwife assisted births and a free birth and you are a midwife, how has that affected your care and your practice as a midwife? And how how has that shifted, if at all, the way that you are with women post free birth?
Speaker 3
It has absolutely shifted a lot. I tried to be very, very mindful ahead of their birth asking them, you know, what what do you see your birth looking like? What do you see your postpartum time looking looking with? I'm kinda limited as to what I can do when I assist other midwives' client. You know? Like, I have to do things their way. Mhmm. So, it's it's it's shaping the midwife I hope to be in the future. I would say more than what I'm doing right now, especially with, like, trying to wrap up my certification. And but I would say I'm very aware when things feel off. Like, sometimes there's a lot of talking right after the baby's born, and sometimes I I'm like, you know, we don't really need to be chatting. Like, I when I'm assisting other midwives, I can't just flat out say that, but it is in my head. And when I do have clients of my own and the baby's born, and if I can just even step out of the room and not say anything, absolutely. I want to do that because, you know, that that's in my head, especially from my third birth. The the chatting of, oh, guess who else is in labor right now? And and then then the hat on my baby and, like, you're hyper oh, your senses are still, like, hyperactive right after you had a baby, and it's just strange the things you remember. Mhmm. So I try to be aware of that for birthing women. Like, I don't want them to be sitting there thinking of their baby's birth and thinking, oh my goodness. The midwives were just, like, cackling it up, you know, like, talking about this and talking about that. It should be a quiet time, I think. Of course. Or if it's not quiet, it should be the mother talking. Right. And her kids and her husband, and they should be the one who's doing the talking. Like, why are the midwives always chatty? And, So
Speaker 1
it's made you a lot more aware of your own presence.
Speaker 3
Absolutely.
Speaker 1
Because it's reminding me of the part of your story. I think it was your second with the kind of being aware that you were being spied on through the door.
Speaker 3
Oh, yep. That was my third. Yeah. I could see the feet. Mhmm. My second one, I was in the pool. I felt like everybody was staring at me. Even when they weren't just them being there, I felt like they were staring at me.
Speaker 1
Well, it keeps making me think of the whole cat in the closet, you know, that cats go into a closet or a drawer. You know, they go somewhere very private and vary by themselves, and, you know, women do too.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right. Well Yeah. At least I do.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I I mean, it's common. Of course. I I mean, I've seen I've seen some women give birth, you know, with a huge audience. I mean, of course, at the hospital, but I'm talking about at home, you know, and it's yeah. Some women really like it and can totally do it, but I I would say the for me, the majority of of births that I've seen, especially if they slow down or she gets into her head, you know, she's gotta go have some alone time or some private time with her partner or her midwife or her doula or whatever. Sometimes, you know, I've seen just just the camera getting pulled out slows labor down. You know?
Speaker 3
Well, we call them party burs. Totally. Hear, when they start having they start inviting their mom and their sister and their cousin and their photographer, and then there's a doula, and then there's this and there's that. And I'm like, oh, man. This is I mean, we just you know, in the background, we'll talk some months afterwards. This is turning into a party birth. And party birth we always tell the moms. I'm like, party birth sounds like fun. It's not. It's gonna make your labor take probably twice as long. It's for every extra person you have, it's an add an hour on your labor. Who wants to be in labor all day with a party birth? Not me. You know? I'll take my five hour private labor over a twelve hour public, you know, one anytime. And, Yeah. I just I personally I mean, and I I'll talk to women too, expecting women that I'm helping. And I'm and I'll tell them, this is how I was. I was super private. If you know, don't be afraid to tell me you don't want me there. I won't be offended. And
Speaker 1
don't be afraid to
Speaker 3
tell me you do want me there.
Speaker 1
Right. And it's not a performance. You know?
Speaker 3
Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 1
And and that's that's I mean, we we need to wrap up. But that that is, like, you know, with the moms, with their in laws, you see it so commonly that or or with their own mother, you know, so many people that are dear to her want to be there. And, again, going back to this, like, socialized submissiveness and wanting to make everybody happy and all of this, you know, I mean, how many births have we been at where the mom has at least one person there that she doesn't even want there, you know, but feels obligated to have there. And yeah. You know? I I do I do see moms who are on their second, third, and beyond definitely get clear, of course, that first mom a first time mom, it's you know, what what they think it's gonna be like and what it actually is is you know, it just takes experience. It just takes, you know, going through it and seeing that you do kinda wanna shut yourself into a bathroom or that you didn't like everybody staring at you like you shared. And, yeah, just takes experience for sure. Well, Heather, thank you so much for being on today. That was super fun. I love the variety in your stories and, you know, what a victorious arc to to get to have gone from, you know, an an induction to wonderful, you know, but but pretty heavily, witnessed, you know, births and then Yeah. And then to have this awesome free birth at the end. So that's beautiful.
Speaker 3
Yes. It was awesome. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Thank you. Alright. Take care. That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
