Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Today, we have Leila from Maui. She birthed both her children outside under the bamboo trees of Hawaii with the moon on her face and a fire blazing. Her stories carry the essence of ancient birthing wisdom. Listen in as Leila shares her intuitive guidance towards free birth at six weeks pregnant and her ability to set appropriate self preserving boundaries with family and her surroundings. Leila's story is truly inspiring.
Speaker 2
Well, I grew up in, in Chicago and my mother is a neonatal nurse and she's been a neonatal nurse her whole life and so I definitely grew up with a lot of horror stories about premature babies and how dangerous birthing can be and, was just very afraid, essentially very afraid of giving birth to the point where I didn't even know if I wanted to give birth because of how afraid I was. And, it wasn't until I met my husband, who I met on Maui, which is where we live now with our two children, that I really felt, like I wanted to be a mother and I was willing to face the fears that I was just holding in my body and in my mind my entire life about not being able to do it essentially and especially not being able to do it by myself. And, so yeah it was definitely life changing to become pregnant. We did it very, very consciously. We both knew that we wanted to create a being. I had had a dream about him and knew it was a boy, and I was open to doing a home birth with a midwife or a doula and I was open to doing a hospital birth. I was really open to everything but I most importantly wanted to just be really connected with what felt right to me and what felt safest to me and what felt most comfortable because I felt like it's a very vulnerable, sexual, sensual experience to even be pregnant and also to give birth and so it felt so important to make sure that I had a context that that felt like it was going to create success and the most fulfilling birth that I wanted to to experience and I definitely along the way was faced with every fear that I've ever had in my life. It really totally brought everything to the surface that I had been trying to become free of for my entire life and and I was able to be open enough and listen enough to how to, really release what was coming up and how to integrate the lessons that were coming and, how to really stay focused on what I wanted to stay focused on in order to have the most fulfilling childbirth. And I knew that it could be so much more than just a birth. I knew that it could be just a total recreation of my entire world view and the life that I live from that moment forward and so I took it really really seriously, really seriously. I spent most of my time very introspectively and a lot of time on the earth I felt like that was very very important to be connected with the elements and so, I can share more about the specifics of the birthing if that's what you would like but
Speaker 1
yeah in a minute I wanted to ask a couple of questions so when you speak about this, like, realization of sensuality and that birth could be this, you know, sexual experience and pregnancy, was that all stuff that you discovered throughout your pregnancy or that you had a hunch about before? Or
Speaker 2
Well absolutely, I mean just even when I was growing up and when I would have my moon cycle or when I would bleed, I always felt like that time was so sacred, I didn't even want to go to school, I didn't want, I wanted to have time to myself, I often wanted to be in nature, I often wanted to be quiet, and so I would do that. I would skip school to do that, I would, make time, I would go camping, I would, listen to that urge, and I knew that that was only preparing me to have a healthy childbirth if I were indeed to have it, which even though I was afraid to, I always secretly knew that I wanted to experience that, And so, with the birthing too, I mean it's like when you conceive with your husband, you don't have a bunch of other people in the bedroom with you, you know, you conceive with your husband. It's a creation that you do together and it's obviously what it is. And so therefore, when you're pregnant, it feels like it's just a continuation of that energy. And then it's like the birth is almost the climax of that. And and then there's the new life that comes from that experience, from a different lens that is never going to be the same.
Speaker 1
So what was some of the deep lessons that you worked through? You said every fear came up during your pregnancy and that you really just met it all head on. What were some of the the big ones?
Speaker 2
Oh, I would say the biggest one was, fear of death. We are so afraid of death in our culture, and to be honest, that fear prevents us from realizing who we really are, in my opinion, and, realizing that we're more than just our body, and how could we not be, and really connecting with ourself in the deepest level possible. I'd say another fear was, of timing of trusting trusting the timing the perfection the harmony that is just there the well-being the trusting that life is inherently good And, you know, so often we are the ones that our minds get in the way and create problems for ourselves when life is really just trying to thrive. I mean, that is what existence is. If it doesn't thrive, it dies. And so every living being, it feels like, is designed to thrive, not just to live and get by and survive and, you know, drudge along, it's it's really, it showed me that life is meant to be joyful and that if we're not in joy that that's not normal, and and it showed me what was keeping me from experiencing that joy. And oftentimes, it was just my own thoughts. Every time, it was my thoughts and my beliefs.
Speaker 1
So freeing,
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I mean that.
Speaker 1
Willing to do the work. Mhmm. Yeah. So when did the idea of birthing just at home with your partner pop into your head? At what point in your pregnancy?
Speaker 2
Well, I, found out that I was pregnant just through a pregnancy test, and I hadn't been to the doctor in years because I just kind of started feeling, like it was unnecessary. I felt like I was really healthy. I felt like I didn't have any problems and I felt like I had learned enough about how to be healthy and take care of myself that I didn't need to have the checkups to make sure that everything was okay.
Speaker 1
You mean like with a gynecologist?
Speaker 2
With any with any of that.
Speaker 1
Any Western
Speaker 2
Anything. Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not downplaying that in any sense. I just felt like I, it just felt like that was a phase of my life and maybe I will return to it at some point, but, I just felt like it wasn't necessary. And so, I was very I was open to having a midwife or a doula, and I actually attended a meeting for all of the midwives on the island. And they were all in this one room together in this yoga studio along with a few pregnant women and they were all introducing themselves and saying, you know, they would say a few things about their work and I was so incredibly open to having one of them be, my teacher or my friend or my assistant in the process and I just didn't really feel a connection with any of them and I also just something just didn't feel, right about it to me. It didn't feel like I would have the most fulfilling experience or really be able to get what I was wanting to get from the experience if I had, someone like that there. And so, I, at that point, just was like, you know what, I'm just gonna do it on my own. And I knew nothing about Well, what point
Speaker 1
in your pregnancy? What's that?
Speaker 2
I would say I was about six weeks
Speaker 1
Oh, early. Okay.
Speaker 2
When I went to that meeting, and it was just really clear, you know, I'm yeah, I didn't feel a connection with any of them. I didn't feel like I want them to be at the most, you know, powerful, vulnerable experience of my life. It just wasn't happening organically. And it felt forced.
Speaker 1
Such a intimate invitation, you know, that I don't think enough people take seriously that you are really inviting someone to witness, you know, and participate in such an intense experience.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. And I I was so clear that I didn't want to have a hospital birth and I mean, it it was more so because of all of the horror stories that I heard about the hospital births from my mother. You know, I would it it just felt like there were all these bad things happening in the hospital to all these babies and all these mothers and, you know, there were all kinds of good things happening too, I'm sure, but it was just confusing to me that they
Speaker 1
would be Did you not have the narrative then that the hospital was saving all these babies?
Speaker 2
You know, I could I could look at it in that way, and I know that my my mother looks at it that way, and I know that that it's powerful work and it's important to have it on the planet right now because I know that they are saving a lot and helping a lot of mothers and babies, but to me, I just felt like that was not the route that I wanted to take. It just was not the route I wanted to take at all. I just didn't feel comfortable. I didn't really didn't feel comfortable having strangers attend my birth, and it was just as simple as that. And I had a lot of hospital experiences when I was growing up, a lot of surgeries, a lot of, sicknesses, a lot of diseases, and I was always, I always felt safe then, I always felt so taken care of, I always felt comfortable, but I was a lot younger, and once I really grew up and realized, you know, do I want to keep doing this, or do I want to put my health, and my safety and my comfort into my own hands and learn about how I can do that for myself and for my family now? And that was what what the turn was at at a certain point for me.
Speaker 1
I know. I'm thinking as as you're saying, like, I don't even like strangers in my house. Yeah. You know? Like, I don't even I don't even like that much less, you know, yeah, having someone, like, stare at my vagina.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 1
Okay. So you you leave that meeting and you're thinking, okay. I'm good on that, and and I'm ruling out hospital birth. So so had you already heard or thought about doing it on your own? Because, I mean, for for a lot of people, that's a very radical, like, new idea.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. You know what? No, I just really, really went deep into myself and I said, how do I want to do this? What feels safest for me and what feels most comfortable? And that was it And it was really radical, and it was terrifying. It was really terrifying. I remember weeks after that of just being so afraid and almost feeling like a sense of just stuckness because it was like, really? This is really what feels true to me to do it all by myself? I know nothing about this and I don't even wanna learn about it because I feel like so much of the information out there even about, you know, the way that it is and what you need to watch out for and all these, you know, different different possibilities of things happening. It's like I didn't even want to hear any of it. I didn't want any of it in my mind. I wanted to just be so present with what was going on inside of me, and have no other input at all, And so I didn't even want to read books. It was just like, just put me out on the Earth, and that's what I did. I wanted to be out on the Earth. I wanted to really spend time with my mind and learn how I could really focus in the way that I wanted to, and direct it in the way that I wanted to, so that this creation that was happening inside of me could have all of the the positive energy and the, attention that it deserved to be able to be a healthy and successful pregnancy and birth birthing experience. And
Speaker 1
And was your partner just, like, automatically down, or was there resistance there?
Speaker 2
He is just my partner is just, like, otherworldly. I feel like he just I but I feel like all of our partners really are. If we can stop telling the stories about how they're not, you know, these men that are in the world right now are really wonderful, supportive beings if we allow them to be, and he was just totally on board. He had, I mean, he he saw that I was afraid and he knew that I was gonna go through my process with it, but he was so, so supportive and he was like, yeah, what, you know, women have been doing this for millions of years. This is how our species exist. You know?
Speaker 1
And all species.
Speaker 2
Are doing it every second. Exactly.
Speaker 1
Well, and I really good women. I really like you pointing out that this was not necessarily a fearless experience, that you Oh. You chose this autonomous birthing experience, and it wasn't without fear. And, you know, I think I think that's really beautiful and really admirable to identify because I I feel like there's almost this, I don't know, like, assumption that if you're choosing free birth that
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
You should be fearless. You know? And that that's not necessarily the case at all. It's just it's all assessment and listening to your truth. And
Speaker 2
Mhmm. So I
Speaker 1
like I like you pointing out that you're like, is this really my truth? Oh my god. I love that. And and the courage to still listen to that. You know? Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1
So okay. So what was your prenatal experience like? Did you do any sort of, you know, quote unquote prenatal care, or did you see anybody for your care, or was it just
Speaker 2
No. I would say I would say that ever since I, left a little bit before I left my home to venture out in the world and go to college and have my own experiences, I really started to become very interested in health and how I could take care of my body, and I would say that my prenatal care was for years before I got pregnant of just for some reason I just was drawn to take really good care of myself and I saw the correlation between what I would eat and how I would feel and what I would do and how I would feel and I liked to feel good just like anybody and so more and more as time went on I found more and more things that aided in my happiness and in my physical health and I felt really confident in the way that I felt, and I didn't feel like I needed any prenatal care. I, I might have harvested some red clover flowers at one point and drank tea because I heard that it increased fertility. But other than that, I would say I just took care of myself and I felt confident in that. And I also felt confident in my ability to control or, manage my thoughts so that I wasn't just wrapped up and turned all around in a washing machine and causing myself stress, which so many of us do, and then we have all these health problems, and we're like, why do we have all these health problems? And we don't make the
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
The distinction that our thinking has a huge
Speaker 1
Right. We're like suffering, suffering, wondering why we have diseases. So what how was your pregnancy?
Speaker 2
Wonderful. It was wonderful. Well, I've I had two, obviously, with it was very vibrant. It felt very vibrant. Everything felt amplified, and I was surrounded by nature. I lived practically outside with my husband for my entire What part of my life? In Wailo, which is on the North Shore Mhmm. Which is very rainy, very luscious, very rainy, very elemental, very windy. We cooked with fire for my entire pregnancy, so I was very connected with that element as well. And I ended up just giving birth underneath the bamboo tree that my son was conceived under, and that I had my entire pregnancy under practically. And, I Yeah. So take
Speaker 1
us take us to the birth.
Speaker 2
Which one? Both of them were very different.
Speaker 1
Yeah. We'll do both, but let's take let's go through the first one.
Speaker 2
Alright. Well, the first one and the second one were very, very different, but also very, very the same. But Isaiah is my son's name, and, he, wow, I really need to think back.
Speaker 1
How old is he now?
Speaker 2
He is three and a half now.
Speaker 1
He
Speaker 2
is wonderful, amazing, bright, vibrant, blue eyes, just so independent, fiery himself, just empowered in himself. He came in the middle of the night I believe and you know, it's interesting. I just want to put one little tidbit in here because my first pregnancy in terms of the fear, the terror that I talked about when I realized that I was gonna be doing a home birth and a free birth and, it was really there, it felt like, to be gone through. And it felt like once I went through it, that it was no more. And so I could honestly say that my second pregnancy was a fearless pregnancy.
Speaker 1
-Yeah, it's it's like a portal.
Speaker 2
My second birth was a fearless birth. Mhmm. And my my first birth was almost fearless. I would say there was still a degree of fear that I didn't entirely work through when I was pregnant that came up during the birth and that continued to come up through the first maybe year of my son's life.
Speaker 1
Can you identify that or like can you speak to that at all of what you mean when you say that? Oh. Like a low level anxiety or, like, fear of specific things?
Speaker 2
I would say just, just if I could rephrase it and just say not not a trust, not a trust in life or in myself, not not fully, fully trusting myself. So, it was more instead of fear I could say that there was still a degree of, just empowerment I would say that was there even though I was doing what I thought was the most empowered decision and the best decision for me. So it really felt like it was a process of learning to trust myself more than facing the fears, but there still was fear in in alignment with that.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
That would come up. So with his birth, I did have, a few thoughts that were like, you know, am I doing the right thing when I was in the middle of the birth? Sure. Am I doing the right thing? I I had thoughts about me. My birth with my second daughter, there was no thought about myself. I was just there, I was totally present, I was not afraid, I just allowed the energy to move, and it was just an entirely different experience with her. She we built a bathtub out of the bamboo that my son was birthed under and lined it and filled it with water. So I did a water birth for her and an earth birth
Speaker 1
for her.
Speaker 2
-Outside? -Yeah, it was outside again under the same tree and in the same spot and, and she actually came out in her amniotic sac and with her my water didn't break and it was just a really different experience. What did
Speaker 1
you what did you do when the bag came out intact?
Speaker 2
Well, actually, it came out intact and then right when she came into the water it burst. Mhmm. And so I didn't really have to do anything. Cool. It took care of itself. But Mhmm. And with him it was, I mean, just the most magical experience because my husband was there with me and we both were, you know, watching him come out of me into our arms and we had a song for him and so we were singing his song and it was just so magical and so empowering and life changing and, and yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
How long how long about was was your first birth?
Speaker 2
You know what? I didn't time either of them.
Speaker 1
I really don't know.
Speaker 2
I really don't know. For both of them, I mean, I've been thinking I
Speaker 1
mean, are we talking like three hours or ten hours or thirty hours?
Speaker 2
I would say Give me maybe okay. So well, both of them were late. Pretty late. I'm not gonna say how late they were, but I trusted that they were gonna come in their perfect timing.
Speaker 1
Even the even the word late is so not real anyway.
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's Yeah. Right?
Speaker 1
I mean, you what you could say is my child came at blank gestational week. You know? I mean, there's no there's no late.
Speaker 2
So Exactly. You could have
Speaker 1
a forty three weeker. You know? I've I've heard of forty four weekers.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. So, I would say his birth probably was around, well, I'd say I I my water broke with him and he came he started coming, It was probably about, like, seven to ten hours with him.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
He came out in the morning, and and then same with my daughter. It was probably I think it was shorter with her, maybe, like, five hours or around that timing. And with her, we, we didn't have hot water where we were, and so I actually had a very interesting laboring experience with her.
Speaker 1
But you're in a cold tub?
Speaker 2
So, yeah. It was cold water. So we had to fill it up a few days before the birth because we, wanted to use the cleanest water that we could. And so we had a neighbor share their well water with us and, and we filled it up and then when I felt like I was going into labor, I, well I guess the first maybe four hours or so I just, I just was, my whole family was sleeping, my husband and my son, and I I felt like I was in labor. And all I wanted to do is just be really, really still every time a contraction came. So I was just so still and I just wouldn't move and I just was so present with it and then eventually it got to a point and I said, okay, we need to start heating up the tub. And so, we had harvested all of this iron wood, which is like a really, really hot dry hardwood, and we, set up this huge fire and we, had this blazing fire going and it was such a still night and I'm in labor here and I'm looking at the moon and this amazing fire and I'm just twirling my hips and just feeling the warmth of the fire on my belly because it was kind of cold outside And then when the contractions stopped, I would pick up a pot of boiling water, and I would bring it in, and I'd pour it into the tub. And we went back and forth and back and forth until it got to a point where I was like, okay. I just can't do it anymore. It's a nice way to it's a
Speaker 1
nice way to pass the time.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was great. It was wonderful and it was fun. It was so much fun. And and I felt strong. I felt strong and healthy, and it felt like it was beautiful to be able to be a participant in that way of of her coming into the world. And so it it didn't end up getting heated up, so it was kind of a cooler bath that I gave birth into, but I was so hot that I didn't care at all. I was so incredibly hot. I didn't care at all. And so, so, yeah, it was just
Speaker 1
And she did fine being born into cold water?
Speaker 2
Yeah. She was she was great. I mean, it wasn't freezing cold water. It was definitely warmed by several pots of boiling water, but it wasn't hot. It wasn't warm enough, you know, in my opinion, for, what I wanted it to be. Mhmm. But I had yeah.
Speaker 1
Were either of your labors hard? Did you feel pain?
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Yes. Yes. I did. I did. And it was all about how I was with it as to whether or not that mattered.
Speaker 1
I love it. Yeah. Yeah. Total mind game.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, like, great.
Speaker 1
But that that Byron Katie quote, you know, all suffering comes from not accepting what is.
Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Thinking that it's, you know, that was the most painful thought that I had when I was giving birth to my son was, is there supposed to be this much pain? Mhmm. Of course, there is because that's what is happening right now. Yeah. You're not doing anything wrong. You're not doing anything right. It's just the way it is. And just and I just was with it, and I realized how painful that thought was in the actual birth. Like, I was like, wow. That's not that doesn't feel like a good happy thought to have. Right. Like, you know, I could be thinking about that or I could be thinking about, oh, I'm this much closer to my son coming.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And, you know, so it's really about just where we want to focus because the narration is always there, whether it's negative or positive or just neutral, still quiet.
Speaker 1
So it was just you and your husband with the first birth and the second?
Speaker 2
Yeah, well my son actually, for the first birth, yes, it was just my husband and I. For the second birth, my husband and I were planning on just being open to my son being there, and it just so happens that he woke up, very uncharacteristically early right before she came out. And so he was there too, and I could not have wished for a more beautiful birth for him to see.
Speaker 1
So how old was he? How old is your second baby?
Speaker 2
No. She just turned one in February.
Speaker 1
Okay. So he was
Speaker 2
about fourteen months now, and he was about two yeah. Maybe two ish. Mhmm. So
Speaker 1
And how you know, a lot of moms that I've supported really have worried about how their toddler would do with with a home birth.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
So what what would you have to say to that? What was your experience like with him?
Speaker 2
In what sense? Him being there or just being traumatized from it? Or I mean Is that what you're asking?
Speaker 1
I think that is a concern for some women of just, like, what it's gonna be like for their toddler who regulates their energy off of their mom, you know, to see their mom working hard, maybe making really primal noises. Mhmm. You know, it's big energy.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
And and how did he deal with that?
Speaker 2
-Well, I would say that he did phenomenal with it. There was definitely, a very big impact that it played on him. I would say that it was super positive, and that he now knows how his sister got here and how he got here and how we all got here and there's a certain degree of wisdom that I see in his eyes just from having had that experience and having seen it. We definitely went through challenging times, as anyone does when change happens, as anyone can when change happens, but it just informed us about how we wanted to be as a family and it, brought more clarity about what was important to us. And of course that is just being together and being healthy and happy and, and free. Yeah, and they, my son and daughter have the most beautiful relationship that I could ever ask for. I mean, it is so incredible to watch them interact with each other. They love each other so much. And I I really think a lot of that had to do with with them being together during that time.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It makes sense versus, like, your parents just leave one day and come back with another animal to tend to. It just seems hard. It seems confusing to me. What was your postpartum like with both of them? How was breastfeeding for you? And, also, I was curious what your support network was like on the island afterwards.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Yeah. With my first, it was, we had a community nearby, but it definitely was more acquaintances than very close friends. And so we had a lot of privacy and space, which is actually what I wanted for the first one. So I really felt grateful that we had that and that I was able to really experience everything on my own. I I really, honestly, I didn't know how to breastfeed and so with my son it was just, I just, he, we learned together and it was pretty powerful to to go through that experience. But everything I mean, they were both so healthy. They drank right away.
Speaker 1
Well, yeah. So tell me a little bit more specifically about the breastfeeding because, you know, we're we're in a culture that's really, like, promotes this learning how to do it. You know, this whole concept of, like, learn how to do it beforehand, read all the books, and you obviously chose a different path where you actually consciously chose to not get really cerebral about it, which Yeah. You know, I think is super cool. So what was it like? First child, you know, no one around.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
What was the learning process like?
Speaker 2
Well, you know, I remember having a thought at one point, and I was like, I thought this is supposed to be pretty straightforward. Here it is. Here's the baby. Let's go.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Do it, baby.
Speaker 2
But yeah, it was a little bit challenging for me, at first to, to get him to latch on and, I was kind of sensitive. You know, it's a really new, very stimulating sensation. And so I had to get used to that kind of being stimulated in that way so frequently. So frequently. But, yeah, after I would say about about ten days or so, it started to become more, like, I kind of entered this ancestral groove, and it was like, yeah. This is so you know, I'd walk around just holding him and feeding him at the same time or, you know, it just became it just became yeah. So natural.
Speaker 1
So those first ten days, were you just kind of laying around with your boobies out with baby on you, just kinda letting it just happen with with him just having availability? I'm I'm trying to kinda get a a picture of it for any moms who who might be planning something like this, who are, you know, who are wondering in a free birth where midwives aren't coming to check on you.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
You know, what could that look like?
Speaker 2
Well, absolutely. For the first I would say that those first ten days, maybe the first two weeks, I was very, very adamant about wanting time just with him and my husband, and so we asked for no visitors at all. And this was totally different than my second birth. I mean, I had, we had our community, we have a community in New Mexico that we're very interconnected with, and we had a lot of people visiting around the time of the birth, and we actually had our friends come the day after she was born, and it was just a totally different experience with her. I was more comfortable and I could still be really focused and with her when I was with others. Well, you kind of had
Speaker 1
it, like, figured out already a little bit.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Whereas with him, I really wanted to just get the full experience, you know, there's only one time that you have your first child and you learn all these things and you and so I really wanted to honor that and and sanctify it. And and so, yeah, the first, I would say, two weeks, I just laid around with him, fed him as much as he would drink and fed myself. I mean, my husband fed me practically. He was just so amazing, and drank tons and tons of fluids and just really listened to what I wanted to be doing and what what felt healthiest for the little guy and
Speaker 1
and for me. You actually let it be this very mammalian, you know, limbic system experience versus this Absolutely. Really cerebral you know, with lactation consultants, and everyone's adjusting you, and everyone's, you know, adjusting the baby. And, you know, it's I I can't say a hundred percent across the board, but it does seem like the the majority of people I've ever talked to who just lay around and just allow and work on it intuitively. I I love that you didn't have all of this reference for it beforehand, whether it was book, Internet, mom, lactation consultant, or whatever that you just you know? Because my first thought was like, well well, what was it was it just very obvious to you when he was hungry? But it's like, of course it was. It's very obvious when a baby's hungry. You know?
Speaker 2
It's it's you know,
Speaker 1
you just look at them, and you can pretty much tell what they're after. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And it's it's feels like even if if someone were to have, you know, consultants or a doula or a midwife or a doctor or anything that, of course, you still would have this that rich of an experience as well. You would just have other people's influence and input that you would have to kind of be with on top of your experience. And so it's just adding even more stimulation and more energy and more opinions and more. And that's fine if that's what you want. But if you don't want it, there is a way to say no.
Speaker 1
Well, I think it's rooted in this insecurity. Right? Like, I'm not gonna figure it out on my own, and so I need help. And there is nothing wrong with asking for help. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Of course. And we have amazing resources of whether it's, yeah, LCs or midwives or whatever. But but I've also seen a lot of women get very overwhelmed by the amount of especially, like, the moms who have two different lactation consultants or a midwife and a doula and a lactation consultant, and everyone's telling them a different thing. Mhmm. Yeah. It is these layers of, like, really, maybe just give yourself three days without anybody, you know, and and protect your space for three days and be like, alright. What's what's gonna happen, you know, now when I have to just get quiet? And I I love that you had this intuition to really protect your space with the first one. And not that you didn't with the second, just that you allowed more people into it, but that you had that, you know, again, very mammalian, very, like, mama bear, mama lion instinct of leave me alone. I need to drop in and figure this out. And, actually, having a bunch of people here would be very disruptive. But you you had that insight without having to actually go through it, whereas I feel like a lot of women
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Go through, you know, everybody's at the birth, everybody comes by the next day, everybody wants to hold the baby. And, you know, and I'm getting texts of, I just wish everyone would leave me alone, but they don't feel like they can say that. You know? Or they don't Yeah. You know? And that's their that's their work to claim. And
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
They find they find how to be that, how to listen to that voice in their own way. Of course, it's different for everybody, but I resonate with with what you're saying a lot.
Speaker 2
I could add a little something to that too, which is, yeah, you know, with my first birth, I had a few unhealthy relationships in my life that I felt like, kind of reached a point when I found out that I was pregnant, that just, it felt like I needed space from them. And so there was actually a point where I had to tell my own father, you know what? The way you're treating me is not okay, and I do not want you to treat me this way, which now is treating my child this way.
Speaker 1
-Totally.
Speaker 2
-And so I actually took space from my own father for my entire pregnancy and didn't talk to him until after the birth, and some people might say that is so cruel or that's awful, but to me it was like, no, this is, this is what life is about, is honoring ourselves and taking space and not needing to go through these experiences to find out what we wanna do next time, but to be able to really consciously think through it and say, is this how is this really gonna work? Fully think through it. This oh, this is how it's gonna work and is that really in alignment? Is is that gonna feel good to me? And do you acknowledge that?
Speaker 1
Yeah. The boundaries are healthy, you know, and that
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
You know, even as women alone, whether we're pregnant or not, we are pretty socialized to not have boundaries, you know, to to just be very submissive and yeah. And and very, like, you know, deferent, you know, or deferent I don't know how to pronounce it. You know, to to men and all of this stuff. So yeah. And I I love that protective protective energy that that does come out with in pregnant people and, you know, and and afterwards. And it does seem like there's this theme pretty constantly of the pregnant woman or the postpartum woman needing to or being invited to establish new boundaries with her family. Right? Because now this, like, torch gets passed. They're now the mother of the family, and now the parents are now the grandparents. And there's this whole, like, packed shift that happens, you know, in the family when a child is born, especially the first one of of your, you know, of your personal family. And
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Such an opportunity for boundaries. And and some women actually need to have that baby to get the courage to set the boundaries. You know? Mhmm. Because they're Yeah. They're protective of something now that's bigger than just themselves. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And so
Speaker 1
I have to ask with your neonatal intensive care unit mama, how how was that navigated? I could only guess that that brought her a great bit of
Speaker 2
worry. Well, you know what? And I I actually this is like the first chapter in my book I talk about, the boundaries that kind of I needed to set with with my parents initially and with my mom. I just was like, what is gonna be the easiest way? You know, I had been in an unhealthy relationship with my dad and it turned out that when we after I gave birth, our relationship was totally different. There was more respect in me and I was able to be in love with him rather than in the unhealthy, you know, ness that we had had before then. With my mom, I I wanted her to be a part of it, but I didn't want her to be that big of a part of it in terms of, you know, sharing all of her knowledge with me about her experiences and everything, although I value them so much. I told her when I told her I was pregnant, I said, you know what? I would love to be with you and connect with you, but I'm not gonna share anything about the way that I'm choosing to give birth, any of my prenatal decisions, any of my pregnancy decisions. I I don't wanna talk about any of that. Wow. And it was really, really hard for her. Really, really hard.
Speaker 1
So did she not know that you were so she did not know your plans to free meal?
Speaker 2
No. She didn't. So yeah. And I wanted her to know. I wanted to experience that with her so badly.
Speaker 1
But knew what would happen.
Speaker 2
I knew I knew that I was facing my own fears. Mhmm. And I did not wanna deal with other people's fears on top of that. So hard. Just wanted to have my own experience.
Speaker 1
Oh, I love that because that's just so that so reads. I think that will be so relatable for so many people, you know, of of where to find that line. I mean, that's because that's, like, rather extreme to actually withhold your choices to your to your mother knowing that it would only perpetuate the fears you were already working through.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. How
Speaker 1
I'm, like, trying to picture how that conversation like, she just agreed to keep it off the table or, like, when how did you dance around that for forty plus weeks?
Speaker 2
Well, to be honest, the lifestyle that I was living, I really I really was very straightforward with my family and my friends and everybody. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna be spending as much time with nature as I can. I'm not going to be spending a lot of time on the phone or on the computer or on the internet, so just know that that's not don't take it personally, just know that that's what I feel like is healthiest for right now. And so everyone kind of had this context of like, oh, Leila's just out in the jungle of Hawaii pregnant
Speaker 1
and, you know,
Speaker 2
you know, just retreating or, you know, in her pregnancy. And and so, so the context was set and it definitely was it was a struggle like there were after I told her my mother that the first few times that I talked to her after that she said, well did you get an ultrasound or how far you know or whatever and I said, you know what I'm sorry I just don't feel comfortable talking about that right now. And and, you know, I know that that probably hurt for her to to feel that, but I also know that, you know, it it created a a ground for growth
Speaker 1
for her
Speaker 2
and for me. Mhmm. So it was important.
Speaker 1
Man, that is some really, really good insight. You know, because it's like even at the grocery store, I was just talking to another mom the other day about, you know, she's she's free birthing again and, you know, like, this confusing navigation of the stranger asking a question and and wanting to, you know, be like a voice and a teacher for alternative options and also being fiercely protective of her own space and not needing to have a options and also being fiercely protective of her own space and not needing to have another person tell her, you know, all of the, you know, fear mongering responses that people give to home not even free birth, just home birth. You know? You know? And that's just so true that it really can be as simple as saying, you know, I'm just so I'm not available for this. I'm just not comfortable talking about this, and that you don't you don't need to be this voice of the movement and this, like, teacher, you know, when you're pregnant, making these highly personal decisions that are none of your mom's business or none of the person at the grocery store's business, you know, unless you are comfortable sharing them. And and, again, like, it to me, it really goes back to we have very little training and cultural support to do that, exactly what you, you know, had the courage to do and and, you know, self awareness and really self preservation, you know, to do. Yeah. Yeah. I hope that really inspires people that are listening, that it really can you can choose it to be that simple of just saying, thank you so much for your curiosity, and I'm just not comfortable talking about it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what's more empowering than that, you know, to say to say no and know that that's what's right
Speaker 1
for you. Totally. And that you don't need to apologize or Yeah. Give an explanation or and that's true for everything, you know, even beyond, of course, just birthing choices. And, yeah, it it's that's cool. Awesome. I like it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1
Well, we we're about at time. Is there is there anything else you wanna share or talk about?
Speaker 2
Oh, well, not unless you have any more questions.
Speaker 1
No. I think that's beautiful. It's a lot of just really deep wisdom, and I think it'll be really inspiring for people.
Speaker 2
Great. Yeah. For me. Thank you so much for this opportunity, and I look so forward to to hopefully connecting more. And I guess I could say if anyone wants, any information out there just about a story about my experience, my book is called Sunlight for a Rainbow, and it's on Amazon dot com. And, it's just a really nice, sweet, short read about my first pregnancy and, working on the second book now.
Speaker 1
Awesome. Yeah. I can't wait to check it out. And I will see you in Hawaii hopefully in December.
Speaker 2
Yay. Great. Thank you so much, Emily.
Speaker 1
Alright. Thank you. Have a great day. Yeah.
Speaker 2
You too. Bye.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
