Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Pregnant with her fifth child, Katie shares her first four very different birth stories. A precipitous first birth in the hospital, an elective induction with her second, an overwhelmingly fast unassisted birth with her third, and then finally a nicely paced calm and private water birth with her fourth. We talk about her path towards free birth and the concerns of birthing this new baby in a conservative state without a supportive birth community. Katie and her family currently reside in North Carolina, having had her first four children in Colorado. Okay. So you have four babies, one on the way. You're just entering your second trimester with your fifth child.
Speaker 2
Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Crazy.
Speaker 2
That's kind of mind blowing.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I bet. And was this was this most recent pregnancy a surprise?
Speaker 2
No, not really. We I wouldn't exactly say that we consciously conceived, but I've been feeling this baby hanging around for a while. We said we were done at two, and then number three was a big surprise, but I'll get into that more. And then number four was planned and, well a surprise plan. And then this one I've just like I've been counting five kids like for the last year I just, like, am feeling this presence, you know? So it was just time.
Speaker 1
Cool. Yeah. So how how old is your first?
Speaker 2
My oldest is about nine and a half.
Speaker 1
Okay. So talk me through that first experience and and kinda where you were at with birth at that point, and you you said you had the first two in the hospital, and then those led you to your previous?
Speaker 2
I always, I always knew that birth was this natural thing that women did, like it's just like you were designed to do it. My mom had all three of her kids in the hospital but I always remember her you know growing up she always said like I should have had your sister at home like her birth was so easy and I should have just had her at home but your dad said blah blah blah whatever you know the story. So I always grew up hearing that and I always grew up like you know you just feed your babies by breastfeeding and, I was a big fan of Little House on the Prairie like having a baby just like you just did that you know and it wasn't like this thing but when I got pregnant with my first, I kind of looked at a home birth a little bit but the insurance that we had through my husband's work was just so phenomenal, it was just five hundred dollars for the hospital co pay and that was it regardless of what happened and, you know, we were poor ish and so I didn't think that spending you know three thousand dollars to five thousand dollars on a midwife was really I guess financially responsible and I just kind of didn't push it. So her labor was super fast like I was in labor for fourteen hours with her total but really active labor was only like forty minutes to an hour.
Speaker 1
Woah, including pushing?
Speaker 2
Yeah, like I went from I went from like three to ten in forty minutes. Wow. It was super intense, I didn't really like digest it and really dig into it until after I had my second, but looking back like when we got to the hospital, the nurses really, they were really condescending. I had one nurse pat my hand and tell me like you better toughen up sweetie because this you're gonna be here a while.
Speaker 1
Surprise
Speaker 2
surprise like twenty minutes later my baby was born you know.
Speaker 1
Was that nurse there?
Speaker 2
No, I think that she had actually left the room, but They're
Speaker 1
like, face.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean like three pushes and she was out, like Awesome. It was it was crazy. The doctor didn't have time to get cleaned up and, but I didn't realize it then, but realizing it now with the extra knowledge that I have, it was traumatic in the way that, like, it was so intense, and they didn't expect a first time mom to be coming in and her labor progressing so quickly. They couldn't find the baby's heartbeat, so they, used an internal monitor, you know, they like screwed the thing into her head and, I didn't even know that they did that.
Speaker 1
Were you unmedicated?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I was totally unmedicated.
Speaker 1
They wanted you in the bed and you had the monitor in. Yeah
Speaker 2
it was too fast you know and I I'm really glad that there was a nurse there who had the experience in her own life to say, my first baby came really quickly and I think you're farther along than everybody's assuming and so she checked me and was like we need a doctor in here right now. But then there was MEC and, she was deep suctioned and I didn't see her and, I mean she was fine and I know all of these things are like, I know now all, like, so much of that was just interference. Like, I probably would have been better off had you in the car, you know?
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's just routine. Cutting the cord and suctioning and it's just a recurring routine in America and it's not the routine in other countries.
Speaker 2
Right. So like he cut the cord and he was like, they did it so fast because of the mech that he, the doctor who like ran in there to catch her, he wasn't even my doctor, was just like covered from his waist to his head and like the blood splashed up him. So that was, like I think back to that picture and I'm like oh my gosh, like my husband's just standing there, like what the hell is going on? And there was so much commotion, and it was so fast, it was so crazy. So that was that you know we went home and she was fine and she was a great breastfeeder. A couple of years later, number two was a surprise, like for real a surprise, I don't think that you're supposed to be able to get pregnant on, like, day seven of your cycle. Like, that just doesn't make sense to me. Apparently, it was meant to be. Oh, man. So because of how crazy the first birth was for her, I scheduled an induction at thirty nine weeks.
Speaker 1
To control it.
Speaker 2
And I thought, like, yeah, I was afraid of delivering in the car. You know, they say that your second labor is, like, usually cut in half, and I'm like, oh my god. Like, that's crazy. So she was I was induced for her, and, it went really well. Like, it was like your textbook induction, like there weren't any, you know, there wasn't fetal distress and everything progressed like right as it was supposed to.
Speaker 1
Did you have so you had Pitocin and an epidural or
Speaker 2
I had I had Pitocin and then I got to like eight centimeters and I was like give me the drugs because this is crazy and the anesthesiologist came in and and I was sitting on the bed for him to give me an epidural and I was like, I have to push.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. And he
Speaker 2
was like, you have to push. And so he just gave me a shot, like a spinal block. Mhmm. And seriously, it was the most amazing thing and the most amazing timing because that block only lasted for, like, the ring of fire, and it was and then it was gone. Like, I was able to push without all of that burning pain. Mhmm. And then immediately after, I got up to go pee. Nice. Like, that will never happen again, ever. You know? Like, there will never be timing like that ever again. I didn't want that. You know? I didn't want, I didn't want an epidural and so I'm glad that he had the foresight to not you know hook me all the way up. So that was that was sort of So
Speaker 1
how did you how did you walk away from that birth? How were you feeling?
Speaker 2
Really good like it felt really good to have that kind of, control and influence and like be able to make the decisions the whole way. You know it was a lot more controlled environment when my OB would come in and say like you're at this we should think about maybe we should think about breaking your water at this many centimeters because we want to make sure that you're progressing, but it wasn't presented like you have to do this or your baby is gonna die, like I always felt like the ball was in my court.
Speaker 1
Well, and it's funny too when when you are on the side of like, I see this with induction a lot. When you're already, like, down with what they have to offer and you're actually going there, You're you're not going there fighting against their system. You're saying, I'm choosing your system and I'm cool with it and let's induce. There the there's an energy shift in the staff and in the team.
Speaker 2
Good point.
Speaker 1
You know, of, like, cool. You're you're already down with what we're doing, and and so we're gonna not all this is not across the board, but I have noticed that be, like, like, a little tension release. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's a really good point. So then, number three
Speaker 1
Is how many years after number two? They just don't have names. They're just numbers.
Speaker 2
Okay. So my first is Roxy, and then my second is Adelaide, and my third is a boy and his name is North. His name is actually Owen North, but, like a year ago, he said that North is his real name, and that is what he must be called. Oh my gosh. So,
Speaker 1
So you you call him North now?
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Isn't that, was that Kanye West's kid?
Speaker 2
I had it first.
Speaker 1
That sucks. I know.
Speaker 2
For real though, he's like I think he's like six months older than her. And they announced that, and I was like,
Speaker 1
I will tell you, side note, not birth related at all. I shaved my head one week before Britney Spears. Oh my gosh. Everybody was like, you did it Britney. And I was like, I did it a week ago. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2
Oh, that's horrible timing.
Speaker 1
It's funny. Okay. So then your third, who we're calling North.
Speaker 2
Okay. So there's a story behind that too. But, my husband and I had, like, hit a bump in our relationship, and we were just sort of having a hard time, when I found out that I was pregnant and, I don't know what led me, to Netflix and the business of being born, but I watched that. And, I mean, I've always been into research and I've always, I've always wanted to know what my options are and I've always sort of been a rebel. Like, if you tell me that I have to do something, you better have a really good reason. Or if you tell me that I can't do something, you better expect a lot of questions. Like, if you're gonna tell me no, I wanna know why. It has to be a good reason. Anyways, I watched The Business of Being Born, and it really I guess it started shifting my perception, and my perspective surrounding what it meant to have a natural birth and sort of, the corruption in the hospital system. And I started, you know, I started researching more things like delayed cord clamping and, around the same time, I found out that my oldest daughter had been given the hepatitis b vaccine at birth, that we had, you know, signed something saying we don't want it. So she was, given that vaccine against our wishes. So that was a big deal to me, you know, that was like a huge betrayal by the system. And so I just started looking more into, like, how much control you actually have. And when I started talking to my OB about different things, She was really condescending. She was very rude. You know, we would talk about, like, like, delayed cord clamping and, like, pushing in different positions. And, you know, she would say, well, I I I don't do that. Like, you can't you can't be on your hands and knees, or you can't be squatting because I don't get on the ground. And I'm like, alright. I
Speaker 1
had I had a doctor once tell a mom I worked with that, he doesn't bend.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it was that kind of attitude,
Speaker 1
totally.
Speaker 2
I realized with oh, another thing was with number three, that OB was pushing for induction again, and she was saying things like, like he was due January third, and she was saying, like, a week early and you get a tax write off, and, like, really pushing for the induction. I know. And, I really just felt this, like, in the pit of my stomach, like, that was the wrong choice. Like, there was, like, there was something really wrong with that decision. We could not he could not be induced. And as soon as I decided that we weren't going to have an induction, it was just like a weight was lifted.
Speaker 1
And is this the same OB that was at your previous birth?
Speaker 2
Yes. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And did you pick up on all this rude condescend condescending stuff at that one? No. It was when you started asking questions and Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I thought that, you know, after watching the business of being born, I thought I'll hire a doula, you know, they'll protect me, they'll advocate for me, so I started interviewing doulas. The first one was very medically minded and she, worked really closely with a nurse midwife that practices around Denver, and in Colorado the midwives are only only nurse midwives are allowed to carry oxygen and Pitocin and, that was like a really big deal to her that was like really it was important to her to keep saying that like only this midwife has oxygen and pit if you need it and it didn't feel like she really trusted women either, so that was a pass on that doula. I found another doula and we interviewed her and we just went over everything, you know, that we were looking for and that we wanted and she's like, you know, it sounds like you guys really just you want home births. And I said, yeah, but I think at this point I was like thirty four weeks. It wasn't in the budget to just
Speaker 1
Right. To just drop five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And not I mean, that's not enough time to, like, work out a payment plan, and they want a certain percentage by a certain date, and now I'm gonna have to interview midwives. And I did interview a few midwives, but I didn't feel like I found somebody who would be a good fit. And, this doula said, well, you guys can do it yourselves. And I was like, what? But really, at this point, I was, like, so afraid of that doctor and giving birth to hospital that I was secretly thinking that I was just going to wait too long. And Accidentally. Accidentally Mhmm. Have a baby at home. But she said that to us and my husband was like, oh wow, like we we could do that and I was like what? What do you mean like he was just totally on board like no questions asked and
Speaker 1
That's cool.
Speaker 2
Yeah she left and we talked about it for a minute and I was like wow this is I mean like everything just falling into place like that and then he called his mom and she was super pumped and supportive and.
Speaker 1
What that's awesome when does that happen? When
Speaker 2
I called my mom and she's like, well, I know you can. I know you can. Just let me know what you need.
Speaker 1
They need to be like they need to be resident grandmas to call for any mom who doesn't have a mom like that where they can just call Katie's mom.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it was really cool that there wasn't any kind of pushback. We really I don't think we really shared with other people in our family, though, until after it had happened. I didn't really know what kind of responses we would get, but, his birth was nuts. It was really intense. It was kind of traumatizing, but I didn't realize that until I don't know. It took me a while to process it, just because it was really fast. He was born on January second, and I woke up that morning having really sporadic contractions, like, fifteen to twenty minutes apart. And I told my husband that things were happening and but he still had to go into work, so he called his mom to come over and she came and hung out with the big girls so that I could rest a little bit longer and then my mom came over and and everything just stopped because she like she doesn't handle other people's pain well, you know? So she's like, are you okay? And, like, looking at you with that head tilt and turned out, and I'm like, go away. Yeah. Like, I feel like I need to take care of her. Like, she's worried about me, so I need to make sure she's okay. So our moms took off and took the big girls to this play place thing, and, I ate some food and hung out, and, the contractions never formed any kind of real pattern. I thought it was gonna be a really long drawn out thing and I thought maybe I thought maybe I would want a water birth you know I hadn't experienced that before but laboring with my first I really enjoyed being in the shower and that was really comforting so I got in the tub and contractions were I think I was in the tub for, like, over half an hour, and I had, like, one or two contractions while I was in the tub.
Speaker 1
And are you are you alone? Your husband's at work?
Speaker 2
No. My husband was home.
Speaker 1
He comes home. Okay.
Speaker 2
He was home. He just had to run-in to take care of a couple things and he came right back. So he's there and he's, like, put putting on a movie and I told him I wanted a baked potato and I'm in the tub and he's gonna hate that I say this part, but he decides We have two bathrooms.
Speaker 1
I was just gonna ask that. I was gonna say, you can't blame him if there's only one.
Speaker 2
And I'm, like, can I get a courtesy flush? Like, what are you doing? And I'm like, Can I get a courtesy flush? Like, what are you doing? Oh, my gosh. Like, I think I don't know. It just didn't occur to him that that was not the appropriate time. The shower curtain was closed.
Speaker 1
I don't care if you're in labor or not.
Speaker 2
Like, I'm in the tub. We have another toilet.
Speaker 1
He's like, we're both pooping. Right? Okay, so maybe that threw you off a little bit.
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. Maybe. Yeah. But I ended up I ended up getting out of the tub because the hot water was starting to make me feel nauseous. That, I think, was actually the turning point for transition, and I didn't that didn't occur to me then. So I got out of the tub, and I was, like, sort of I was trying to dry off and get dressed. I don't know why. Why was I trying to get dressed?
Speaker 1
I wish the listeners could see the face
Speaker 2
you just made. I know I'm so much better in person.
Speaker 1
Sheer disbelief.
Speaker 2
I don't know. I really I think because my contractions were so far apart, I think Totally. I was thinking that I still had a lot more time, and why am I just gonna walk around naked? It was January.
Speaker 1
Totally. That's not crazy.
Speaker 2
So, I so I was trying to get dressed, and just, like, all of a sudden, like, contractions just started, like, one on top of the other, like, a minute long and, like, thirty seconds in between. Like, I had no break. -Woah. -And, I'm rolling around on the rolling around on the yoga ball, not sitting on it. I'm, like, draping myself over it. And, my husband's trying to watch a movie. Like, he's got previews on for a movie, and He's eating a bowl of spaghetti. And I'm like, you need to turn that off. Fuck you, Paul Blart. And I'm like, oh my gosh. So he turns that off, and he's on the floor and he's holding my hand and, this is all in a matter of like just a few minutes like maybe five to ten minutes and, I feel a pop and I reach down, and my my water's broken. And I'm like, my water just broke. And he does this crazy I've got the yoga ball at the end of the bed, and he does this crazy flip over the bed to get behind me. Okay. I don't even know how he got there. It was like
Speaker 1
Ninja.
Speaker 2
Yeah. There was a trapeze in my room. I don't know if he so he's behind me, and he's like, I don't see anything. Like, I don't know if he thought the water breaking meant the baby was gonna be here. Right.
Speaker 1
Well, and look, this totally points to even though he's had two previous children, they are so uninvolved in the hospital. And it's so, like, you know, on on the bed with the spotlight and you know, that even people who have seen or been had children still cannot know.
Speaker 2
Well, and we, I mean, we can watch birth videos together before our son's birth to sort of prep for it and we did research together and I mean we got, you know, we we got a lot more education, but there's still so many variables. Totally. You know? And It's
Speaker 1
hard to access it when you're Yeah. In the middle of, like,
Speaker 2
Yeah. Definitely. So he's, like, hanging out back there waiting, and, I'm like you need to call my sister, and he's like I can't I can't call your sister. I really wanted my sister to be there because, she had wanted a natural birth with her first but her son has a health condition, hydrocephalus, that meant that he she had to have a cesarean and I just really I wanted her there to experience it. Yeah. He called really fast and said you guys need to get here now and I could feel my son pushing himself out. Yeah I
Speaker 1
was gonna say unless they live next door they're not making that bird.
Speaker 2
I could feel his feet, you know at the top of my abdomen like kicking himself out. A little stummer. I was not I was not pushing like my my body totally took over and I I don't think that I was completely dilated, and he was just coming out. His head came out like straight on, like it wasn't flexed. I don't remember what that's called.
Speaker 1
Why do you think you weren't completely dilated?
Speaker 2
Just because it moved so fast, like I reached down to check and it didn't, like right after my water broke. I I mean, I guess it could have progressed that quickly, but I reached down to check and, I I definitely didn't feel like, I could still feel, like, a cervical lip. I mean, I guess with that kind of pressure and that kind of movement, like, my cervix didn't tear or anything. I mean, there wasn't any kind of -That's
Speaker 1
what I was wondering if Yeah.
Speaker 2
-Yeah. Wasn't any kind of physical trauma. But it was it was super fast. His head came out not flexed, like, -Deflexed? -Yeah. And then it seemed like an eternity with his head just hanging out of me, and I thought he was stuck because he wasn't turning. He wasn't moving. It seemed like forever. And I asked
Speaker 1
You're on hands and knees?
Speaker 2
Sort of
Speaker 1
Are you still on the ball?
Speaker 2
I'm still holding on to the yoga ball.
Speaker 1
On your knees?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I asked my husband if he was stuck and I reached back to feel if I could feel his shoulders at all, and then I mean he didn't he didn't turn at all my body just pushed him out like straight and we had this contraction timer on our phone and it was like fifteen minutes from the time I got out of the tub to the time he was born. Wow. So like it it was like a freight train. It was totally out of my control. It was super crazy. So in that way it was like really hard to process. Like, I got the birth that I wanted because it was unhindered, you know, I sat down after he was born and turned around my husband handed him to me and everything was fine, but it was so like that was such a wild ride that nobody prepared me for like you can't be prepared for that. More people should talk about that. More people should say like birth birth doesn't necessarily go from like zero to three in this amount of time like you there's so many so many variables like you just can't predict what it's gonna be but I guess I have.
Speaker 1
Well especially with with your first birth being so crazy fast and
Speaker 2
yeah, it isn't I think, I I don't know if it was because I was in the hospital. Maybe it was the position I was in. I don't know, but that my third birth was very painful. It was very painful and I think that was more traumatizing to me than I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1
I mean, an animal moving through your pelvis
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
In fifteen minutes
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
Versus, like, twelve hours.
Speaker 2
And it's so his personality. Like, oh gosh.
Speaker 1
Wow. So that's so that's what I was wondering, you know, is the like, what what qualities of your birth when you replay it felt traumatic? So the speed and the pain.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I really, I mean I had joined birth groups, when we decided that we were going to do it unassisted, I had joined birth groups to, you know, meet other moms who had gone through it and, you know, gather their information and, their collective knowledge which is just this amazing invaluable resource, but nobody really talked about that, like, nobody really prepared you for that, like, you know you ask about tearing and they say like if you if you have a hands off birth and you breathe your baby out well I don't know what the fuck they're talking about like my baby wasn't gonna be breathed out like he was getting himself out very quickly. I did end up I did end up tearing and I I hadn't educated myself enough about that aspect because everybody was like if you have an undisturbed birth you know, it's really unlikely that you're gonna tear.
Speaker 1
Yeah, unless you have a fifteen minute speed bullet fly out. Yeah, you might.
Speaker 2
And he and he was nine pounds, you know, he wasn't tiny. So we ended up going into the hospital just because I didn't really know how to evaluate myself. Sure. So the nurses were horrible and they were super mean and we did not admit baby because I knew that if we did that, you're basically signing your rights over to the hospital.
Speaker 1
So did you play it As the accidental home birth? Yeah. Yeah. That's smart.
Speaker 2
So the nurses were really mean and they called in a pediatrician because we were declining the vitamin K and we got an earful from a pediatrician who told us that our baby was gonna die, and Oh my gosh. That was really scary. Of course. I think I think that's something we need to talk about more, you know, in case of transfer, like what your rights are and like what to say to keep them off your back, but Mhmm. I think we handled it pretty well, and, we brought up like religious exemption and religious rights, and pretty much if you say that, I mean that's not necessarily true for us, but if you say that, it it basically shuts it down.
Speaker 1
And I don't think they can be, like, prove it.
Speaker 2
Right. Exactly. That's the thing. Yeah. And Colorado is actually a philosophical exemption state as well so. Oh that's cool. Yeah, the OB came in to stitch me up and she was amazing, she was like you guys did
Speaker 1
Not your not your lady.
Speaker 2
Not my OB, Whoever was on call. She's like, you guys did a great job. She's like, he looks fantastic and, you know, you don't appear to have lost a lot of blood and, you know
Speaker 1
See, this is this is the whole thing about hospitals. You could get a great you just don't know. And and I that's I hope people take that away. Like, I'm a little nervous about, you know, with this podcast, people being like, well, I had a great hospital birth and I'm a great nurse or I'm a great doctor. And it's like, totally, dude, that all exists, but you don't know who you
Speaker 2
Well, that nurse get. That nurse with my first birth who was like, my labor was really fast. I think I should check you. Like, she was a good nurse Totally. And she was really kind.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And she took seriously. I mean,
Speaker 1
there's amazing nurses that I've met, but Right. You could get the one who shames you for having it.
Speaker 2
And you know what? The doctor who caught my first baby, I've seen him since then in this picture, and he is on the floor sitting crisscross applesauce with a flashlight in a completely dark room, while a woman is on her knees on the bed, like he would be a good doctor for somebody who wants to birth in the hospital you know.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
But that OB who was stitching me up with my third she said you know ninety percent of the time a taxi cab driver could do my job. She's like, you guys have nothing to worry about. Don't worry
Speaker 1
about it. An eight year old can catch a baby. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 2
So that was that and,
Speaker 1
Did you ever follow-up with the doula to tell her you had a free birth?
Speaker 2
We had talked, she's in any birth group. Oh, cool. I'm I'm so grateful to her that she had the courage to suggest that because you just don't know what kind of response you're going to get from people you don't know very well and you know I could have reported her to her certifying board.
Speaker 1
Yeah that is technically not like what you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2
Yeah so I just I really appreciate her sort of going out on a limb and suggesting that to us and we had talked about her actually being present and then we just decided that it After we decided that we were going to have a free birth, it didn't feel right to have somebody else there.
Speaker 1
She wouldn't have made it anyway.
Speaker 2
No, no, and I've explored that more like, like if I feel like I want support or don't want support with baby number four, we had moved to Texas and I didn't have any family there and when I found out I was pregnant I started interviewing midwives and I found a couple of midwives that I liked but I realized that they still have these requirements by law, you know, these things that they're unwilling to negotiate on because their license is on the line and that didn't sit well with me. But we ended up moving back to Colorado before baby number four, so that didn't end up being an issue.
Speaker 1
So moving back, did did that just come with the decision to free birth again?
Speaker 2
I think I think it's really hard to say what we would have done, what I would have chosen. I I keep saying we because my husband and I are like we're really a great team and he is really supportive and trusting and encouraging and he would never tell me that I can't do something. You know, we we make decisions together but if there's something that I feel really strongly about he respects my judgment, he trusts my judgment, but if if I had wanted an attendant in Texas, if I had chosen that I don't know if it would have been a midwife. I think I might have just tried to find a doula to be there, just sort of for extra support just sort of maybe maybe even just like more for my husband and kids. Yeah. Just somebody else there to you know grab a juice box or whatever. But so I don't know. What what
Speaker 1
was your what was your prenatal care like with the fourth? What's the fourth name?
Speaker 2
Her name is Eliza.
Speaker 1
Eliza. What was, did you see an OB? Did you see anybody?
Speaker 2
I did not, I did not see anybody. I ate well and I weighed myself. I guess that doesn't, I mean, I ate really well, And I took my blood pressure. I don't know. I just took care of myself, you know? With number three, I had tested with number three, I had tested positive for GBS, and it was really, like, there was really a lot of stress around that part in, like, deciding whether or not we were going to go through with having an unassisted birth when we found out my status of that. So with number four, I kind of I kind of played with the idea of getting some labs done, and then I decided to do some more research and just decided to skip it altogether.
Speaker 1
Well, Anne, you went that third because you did transfer after the birth. Mhmm. Did I mean, did they know? Because They
Speaker 2
they didn't know because we didn't admit him, so they didn't pull up.
Speaker 1
Oh, thank god.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That could have been. Yeah. But he was fine. Oh, no. Of course. What?
Speaker 1
You know what I mean? They would
Speaker 2
have It was in my record. So but the thing is is that, they didn't have my records sent over from his prenatal care. It was at the same hospital as my older two and they could only find my status from those two births, which was negative. Yeah. So yeah that didn't ever come up and I learned some valuable lessons from that hospital experience transferring like that. Number four was born in my mother in law's kitchen in a pool.
Speaker 1
So you intended to birth there?
Speaker 2
Yes, yeah, we talked to them about, so we moved back to Colorado and I don't know how much you know about the real estate climate there but it is pretty crazy, when they legalized cannabis it just exploded. We were not able to find something that we could afford and we were living with my mother-in-law while we tried to figure out what we were going to do about that situation and, I mean she knew how we had our third baby she was supportive of it you know but we still felt like we needed to ask her and her, live in man friend, it's weird to call somebody in their 60s a boyfriend, I don't know what to call that person. Partner? Yeah partner, they're married now. The lover? Yeah lover. She would love that oh my gosh sorry Nancy. They were awesome like we talked to them about it and just you know how we would make sure that we didn't flood her house and, you know, our our plan in case of an emergency and they were really receptive and she just has this really great, like quiet energy, like she's just one of those people who knows she just knows how to love people where they're at so there's never any kind of like, there's no judgment coming from her and there's no there's no expectations, I'm really blessed.
Speaker 1
Seriously, I need to figure that out. Well, Anne, it she probably is delighted to have a grandbaby born at her house. That's such a, like, sweet thing to have in your home's history.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It was really cool.
Speaker 1
So tell me that story.
Speaker 2
So, her her entire pregnancy, so there was there was some bumps in the in the road along the way there, when we moved from Texas to Colorado, it was with the intention of living with another family member to help them out and we ended up having a falling out and that's sort of how we ended up at my mother in law's house because we didn't have another place to go. So there was a lot of like emotional turmoil around that. So I mean that entire time I was just really I was really prayerful and like my intentions were towards having a very like calm, longer, more controllable birth like something like just easier on my body. Not a sprint, like I was down for a marathon, you know? And so I had contractions that started around like midnight on a Thursday night, so Friday morning, and they were really far apart and kind of mild but I knew that it was more than the regular Braxton Hicks and I just went to bed that night and just tried to sleep through it or whatever but, I knew that was starting then and I started to lose my plug over that that night I got up to go to the bathroom and, I saw evidence of that and then Friday I just tried to go about my day as normal and I didn't say anything because I didn't want the attention for it. But probably stayed at home. I didn't, I think we went shopping, like I just I was feeling stir crazy, so we left the kids with the in laws and went out for I think we went out and got lunch and just walked around a little outdoor mall a little bit I'm saying, a lot. It's okay. You're thinking.
Speaker 1
It's a lot to retrieve too in your brain.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And there's a lot of little details that you you forget about until you start talking about it, but Totally. They're sort of irrelevant to the big picture. So we came back from our little outing, and I don't know how far apart contractions were. I don't think I was really paying attention and timing them, but they were just kind of pinchy and irritating. It wasn't something like I was having to really focus and, you know, feel like I needed to manage any kind of pain. We got the kids in bed, we hung out, I think around, like, I don't know. I think around, like, nine o'clock, I said we should put up the pool. And so that's nine o'clock Friday night. And we got the pool all blown up and set up and I put up my little affirmation flags that my friends had made. Cute. And then my husband realized that we did not test out the hose adapter to the hot water part of the sink in the kitchen, and, they ended up I don't know how they they, like, rigged it to something in the bath room. So that took them a while to figure it out. And I'm, like, hiding out in the basement because I don't want I mean, contractions were more painful at that point, and I don't want, to be looked at while I'm trying to manage. So the tub wasn't filling up fast enough and they with hot water so they decided to, start boiling pots on the sink. It was really nice to have all those extra hands like adult hands to pitch in and do stuff like that. I was listening to John Denver radio.
Speaker 1
Nice of course you were. That's amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It was really it was really nice once the tub was all filled up and set up to get in there and just kind of like the dim lights in this place that I am comfortable in and I feel at home in and you know you just you feel loved there and my mother-in-law and her partner, man friend.
Speaker 1
I thought didn't we settle on lover?
Speaker 2
Lover, my mother-in-law and her lover retreated to a back bedroom where they had like a little lounge TV area set up, and they just hung out in there. And my husband had thrown out his back, so he laid next to the pool on the ground. Oh. And I just labored in there for He
Speaker 1
didn't throw out his back during your labor, did he?
Speaker 2
No, he had he's had back issues for quite a few years and it just like decided to spaz out on that day and he was just in a lot of pain so he was laying down and it was really fine because like in the water I didn't feel like I wanted any extra physical support like I didn't I didn't even feel like I know at one point I I was leaning over the edge and I was holding his hand but it wasn't even like oh my god I need to hold your hand like I need something to grab onto you. It
Speaker 1
just feels good.
Speaker 2
Yeah it was nice to know he was there and it was also kind of nice to do it on my own to be there alone with my baby working it out together because like my husband caught North and you know when we made that announcement every single effing comment was about how great my husband was. Ew. Way to go, Doctor. Dad.
Speaker 1
That is so weird.
Speaker 2
He stuck his hands out. Like, I'm glad that he's supportive and that Of course. Like, you don't get a gold star for, you know, putting your dish in the dishwasher. Like
Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. You do in this society when we ask so little of a of a man's engagement. Yeah. Because that's how it's obviously been set up.
Speaker 2
So with the first floor, I really felt like
Speaker 1
You're you're not catching this baby.
Speaker 2
Well, I don't even know if that was really my conscious intention. -Mm -But I I just felt really comfortable, and it seemed kind of weird and gross to me for him to get in the tub with me in the -In the space. -In the -In the space. -In the Yeah, like, I see I get that other women find comfort in that, but I see those pictures where husband is like behind the woman and like rubbing her body all over and whatever and I'm like oh my gosh like I could not handle that.
Speaker 1
Not for you. Yeah,
Speaker 2
Or, like, the videos, and they're, like, stimulating her nipples to, you know
Speaker 1
But you also but but you had right. But you had you had the experience of the other end of the spectrum of it being so full on and so intense and so fast that you probably wanted a lot of, like, space and and, what's the right word, destimulation. Yes.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So
Speaker 1
that totally makes sense.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I didn't really, I'm not like a super touchy feely person anyways and I cannot imagine wanting to have like a bunch of hands rubbing me while I'm in labor. So it was really nice to sort of have that like isolation bubble in the pool. Totally. It was so serene.
Speaker 1
Sounds like I can totally picture it in my head.
Speaker 2
She was I was on my knees for her birth too I was kneeling but I could the way that I was positioned with the pool I could reach around the front instead of trying to reach around my back and like with Norris and I'm trying to reach around to see like if I I don't know it was that was a mess there was no like.
Speaker 1
You didn't have time to organize.
Speaker 2
No. Yeah. And like having that under my belt too, like having the experience of his crazy birth, I think gave me more, like I knew how I needed to move my body to sort of access catching her. So I felt I felt her crowning and it was so much slower and I could I could feel so much more happening instead of just this crazy baby like shooting himself out, like I could feel her moving, you know, I could feel like her arms wiggling around and I could I could feel her like shifting her head and that was wild to have that time, and I don't even remember having contractions like her, like I remember that I felt a lot of pressure, and I remember, I definitely remember being uncomfortable when I was out of the water, but when I was in the water like I don't want to say that it was a completely painless birth, but it was pretty close. Like I don't, I don't remember feeling the ring of fire, I don't remember pushing her head out. It was just out, and I was like, oh my god. Her ears are so tiny. Oh,
Speaker 1
and, you know, to add to not only the environment that you had created, you also had more time. You're using words like serene. You know? I mean, those things all go together to have experiences like that.
Speaker 2
Right. And I think, I think back to North's birth and how crazy it was and I think like if I had stayed in the tub would it have been as wild and or you know if I had like he was born in the middle of the day though he was born at like two o'clock in the afternoon. This was my first baby to be born in the middle of the night and I wonder if that also played a part in the quietness. So she was out in like two surges, I don't want to say pushes because I don't remember pushing and I just pulled her out of the water and we sat there and they held her and she started crying and then I could hear my mother-in-law start crying.
Speaker 1
Oh I bet she's like at the door.
Speaker 2
But that was really great it was really great and, her lover, her husband now, he was so, he was like so proud. He was like so amazed and like just, like, in awe of, you know, I mean, they weren't they didn't watch it, but just, like, being there to bear witness and, like
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
It was really special for them to hold that kind of space.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And you just, like, as far as he's concerned, you, like, walk down to the basement, get in a tub, pop a baby out. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It was actually just right down the hall in the
Speaker 1
kitchen.
Speaker 2
Oh, why
Speaker 1
did I think
Speaker 2
it was
Speaker 1
in the basement? Sorry.
Speaker 2
Well, I was laboring in the basement.
Speaker 1
Oh, okay. Like, in a way,
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I'm in her kitchen, like Awesome. So we hung out there for a while and, at some point, my second daughter Adelaide had come up while they were getting the pool set up and she had laid down and fallen asleep on the couch, and instead of moving her back down to the basement, where the other two kids were, They moved her to my mother in law's bedroom and so she was the first to come out and meet the baby and she was very excited to meet her baby. It was just really it was really just nice like everything just flowed really well and I was able to birth the placenta in the pool and it just it was very easy it just came out, like, in ten minutes. It was very fast and there was, like, no blood loss. Like, I've never seen a birth that was just clean. There wasn't a bunch of stuff floating in the pool, like it was crazy. My mother-in-law came out to help me my husband held Eliza while I got out of the pool and got dried off and climbed into bed and rested and then I posted on Facebook that I had caught my own baby and there were crickets.
Speaker 1
No. I
Speaker 2
mean, of course, all of my birthday friends, like, all of my girlfriends are like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. You're so great. That's beautiful. You know? That's a miracle, wife. No one
Speaker 1
called you doctor mom?
Speaker 2
No. Everybody else, you know, everybody else who had such high praise for this man catching, nothing. Yeah. Do I sound bitter?
Speaker 1
I mean, I hear you. It is it is not unique to you. I think I hear a lot of women say this. It's it's pretty weird.
Speaker 2
I don't understand. Like, I did so much work. Yeah. But that was a good, that was a really good birth and not to say that my son's birth wasn't like, that whole process did so much for us to like bring us together as a couple like we had to work together and you know his middle name is Norris because he gave us our direction like he he showed us the way and like he's our he's our guiding star you know, like he set our lives on a totally different path.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so now you're in North Carolina.
Speaker 2
Now we're in North Carolina. And you're
Speaker 1
pregnant with your fifth.
Speaker 2
Baby number five.
Speaker 1
And this will be your first time birthing in this state.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Anything that you anticipate that is within your control that you would do differently? Or you know I really do you have family there what's
Speaker 2
the deal? Okay. I really the more I think about like the whole situation surrounding birth and birth laws and stuff like this is a really unfriendly state for midwives, so there's a lot of midwives working underground. I I don't I don't want a midwife this time, I wouldn't mind having a doula, but I also feel like because of the environment, because of the climate here surrounding birth and the laws that are so restrictive, I'm putting them in a very precarious position. Yeah. You know taking a risk. I don't know are you familiar with Rowan Bailey? She's a midwife who lives here and she was arrested because of the baby being stillborn and she was in jail for some time and Oh, yeah. The charges were dropped. It wasn't her fault, but this kind of witch hunt is going on all over the place and, you know, if you are attending births, even as a doula in a sort of friend capacity, you're taking a risk. And I I really believe that for myself, just being empathetic to their situation, like, it would be a hindrance to my birth because I would be worried the entire time, like, if something happens and we have to transfer, what's gonna happen to them?
Speaker 1
Well, what about, literally, just a friend, a non birth professional? You know, someone who, you know, if it did come down to it, which, of course, it I'm sure it won't, but if it did, there it can't you can't turn to them to say, technically, they
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
You know, should have known
Speaker 2
And I've thought about that, but I just don't like there's nobody that I know that has the right energy and like Gotcha. A strong enough personality. I need somebody who knows how to be quiet and hold space and I don't feel like I have to entertain or take care of you. Mhmm. You know what I mean? Yeah. There's a lot of passive women here, you know, and I need somebody who has a personality that's as strong as mine so that I that I don't feel like I am just constantly checking on them.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
And there's not a lot I mean, there aren't a lot of women here having home births because of the climate and
Speaker 1
What about your sister coming to visit?
Speaker 2
Nope.
Speaker 1
Well, you never know, man. Something might present itself. You still have time and not that you need it at all. Just just if if there is a whisper in your heart that, you know, desires a female companion, I Yeah. I I would not be surprised if they present themselves, whether it's someone you've already met or someone new. People have a way of, you know, showing up for this stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I think it's hard too because people, like I I have friends that I would love to be there, but they live in different states. Right. You know, it sucks. And those are the people who I would trust because they understand birth. You know, there's not a lot, like I don't have time and I don't have the energy like I homeschool too, you know? And, you know, we have, like, a little mini homestead with a huge garden and we have chickens and, like, I don't have the time to educate somebody else about birth. I don't have the energy to it.
Speaker 1
They either get it or they don't.
Speaker 2
And so there's like a different kind of climate here too. Like everybody there's a birth center in this town, and that's the hot spot. Like everybody says, like if you're crunchy, you go to the birth center. I'm like birth You're
Speaker 1
like you guys don't even know.
Speaker 2
Yeah I just I mean I say some things and I mean I'm really like the fringe of the fringe here. That's something else that's been a huge culture shock, coming to the south from, you know, someplace a little bit more liberal, like Colorado. Yeah. I don't know anybody who I would trust to be knowledgeable enough to hold space and, like, be able to keep their own adrenaline
Speaker 1
In check.
Speaker 2
In check, you know, keep that under control because they've not experienced Totally. Yeah. Natural.
Speaker 1
You might be I don't know. I feel like I feel like there's someone out there. I feel like it might be a birth worker, though, who's, like, confident and down and
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean I've had you know there have there have been a couple of people say things like, like I've I've shared that I've had unassisted births, husband assisted births, I don't know. Some people some people get really hung up on that language.
Speaker 1
Really? I haven't even seen that yet. Oh, like, unassisted births to be alone or something.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I wasn't. Whatever. So anyways, people hear about that and they're like, oh my gosh, let me come to your next birth. And I'm like, this isn't like a circus sideshow. Weird. You know, this isn't like
Speaker 1
But, you know, it probably is well intended because people are curious, and you're planting seeds for people that are pretty outside of their paradigm. And Right. You know, they don't realize that it's you're not like a token, you know, thing. But but it but it it I imagine it does come from a a genuine place of curiosity of wanting to be exposed and, like, how do you get we know that there's plenty of ways they could get exposed. But, oh, I was also gonna say on the doula tip or, you know, if you did have a professional, you know, support companion with you, They just wouldn't come with you when they when if you transferred. You know? Like, there's there's definitely ways to do it where if you guys have a trust that Yeah. She is not a part of, whether it's, you know, God forbid, a bad outcome or or a transfer or something like that. You know?
Speaker 2
Well, I mean, it's like a witch hunt in this state to the point of, like, if if somebody from their organization finds out that they are attending an unassisted birth, they could be turned in. You know, like That's sad. Like, there could maybe not even be a bad outcome, but somebody else finds out about it and they could be arrested for practicing medicine without a license.
Speaker 1
A doula though?
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
But they don't practice medicine?
Speaker 2
No. But the state is stupid.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Like it is crazy here. It is really wild. Yeah. It is moonshine. And it's horrible. It leaves a lot of mothers hanging, you know?
Speaker 1
Totally. Well, yeah. And I mean you you obviously this isn't your first rodeo so like you'd be fine, but Right. There's this is where they But that's I don't
Speaker 2
want the support like that's
Speaker 1
the thing. Exactly. Right.
Speaker 2
I think about it. I would love like, I have two friends that I would love to have be able to attend. I would love to have their support. But how do you how do you organize that from states away when they have kids also?
Speaker 1
Well, if they have kids I mean, really Yeah. They either they either bring their
Speaker 2
kids Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Or
Speaker 2
if
Speaker 1
you have two of them, one comes for a week, and the next one comes the next week. And you you aim like, you you hope that you're gonna get those two weeks. I mean, that's really the only way, especially with a multi tip. That's the only way to I think I mean, I I don't have all the answers. Maybe someone else can suggest something amazing, but, right, that would be the only case. You just have to, like, at thirty nine weeks, have someone come
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And then have the next one come or whatever. Do you have a pattern of your do you, like, carry all of your babies late or early, or are they all just kind of whenever?
Speaker 2
My first was forty plus six, I think. No. Forty plus three. So forty weeks, three days. And then number two, I don't know because I was induced at thirty nine weeks. My third was, thirty nine plus six, so just the day before his due date. And then number four was, I think, thirty eight plus five. And I was not expecting I wasn't ready. That's something. I wasn't ready for her to be born yet with the emotional turmoil that I had gone through. Like, I was praying for, like, a forty two weeker. I wanted I needed more time. -Yeah. -Um, so that was a surprise for her to be that early. So probably somewhere around thirty nine weeks, I guess.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you got time.
Speaker 2
Yes. I do.
Speaker 1
You got some time to figure
Speaker 2
it out.
Speaker 1
I mean, I see you know, because in as a birth worker, I see tons of families work out tons of different dynamics. And Yeah. I've had, yeah, I've had some moms that import a friend for the week and then just, like, do it on rotation. Like, I don't know if I'll be able to pull it off or not, but my dream is to free birth in Maui. And so Oh. That would yeah. We'll see. I mean, and the timing has to work very specifically for that to work. But even if we birthed here at home, it would be the same thing. Like, I would import someone because I I don't have anyone around where we live now, and we don't in Maui either. We have my dad, but not, like, our friends. So, yeah, we would just have to do, like, import a friend, import it the next friend next week, and then just fill those weeks. And then whatever happens happens, whether they're there pre or post or during, just sub to up to the world. Yeah. There's always I mean, obviously, it's harder with being being moms.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And, like, figuring out childcare and,
Speaker 1
like,
Speaker 2
if your husband's taking time off. Or
Speaker 1
Can they bring their kiddos, or is that crazy? That might not be it might not be more more calming to you to add.
Speaker 2
Well like my one friend has five boys.
Speaker 1
Oh okay so we're yeah she
Speaker 2
has a lot. She has all her kids And the other one, she has three, but they're littler, you know, they're like six, four, and, Yeah. I would think babies like orchestration. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
That might be a little overwhelming to have in my house. Maybe just the baby, you know, that would be okay. Mhmm. But with my kids also, you know, I know, like, my grandma keeps threatening to come when the baby is born.
Speaker 1
Is that good or bad?
Speaker 2
Not really threatening. No. I would just feel like a watched pot. Like if they wanna come after that would be awesome and I know that she would be a big help with the big kids and it would be really sweet of her but, I'm just so picky about like the energy in my space.
Speaker 1
Totally. You should be.
Speaker 2
You know? After becoming aware of that and the influence in birth and just seeing, you know, how my last two played out, I just can't imagine, like I can't imagine that room full of people watching me give birth. Yeah. That's terrifying to me.
Speaker 1
Well, we'll have to check-in we'll have to check-in after number five.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Sure. See how your
Speaker 1
plan how your plan all came together. And I will send you lots of lots of prayers for community and that you meet other kindred sisters in your area.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 1
Or at least one. Yeah. I'll take one.
Speaker 2
I mean, I have friends here. Like, I have birthy friends here, but they're, like, they're, like, not the right energy.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know? They're, like, not that, like, centered, calm, together. I can't have somebody constantly like checking in. Of course. You know what can I do for you? What can I do? What can I do? Like that's not like you gotta be self directed. Of course. Yeah. Totally. So Well, thank you
Speaker 1
for sharing all your stories.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Did we go, like, way over time? Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Okay. Good.
Speaker 1
Nope. We're good.
Speaker 2
Good.
Speaker 1
Yeah. We'll have to check-in. So what month are you expecting the baby then?
Speaker 2
Like, the middle of October.
Speaker 1
Okay. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. Cool. Well, I think, yeah, there's a lot of good stuff in your stories and also such different birth stories.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
They all carry such different lessons and, I mean, that's kind of the deal with birth, it seems. But,
Speaker 2
yeah, I appreciate you sharing. Anna. Nice to have you back.
Speaker 1
Having me. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
