Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. A quick note here. If you're enjoying the podcast and wanna support it, you can go over to patreon dot com slash free birth podcast and contribute. There's one dollar a month pledges, five dollars, and so on. Your support is appreciated. Thank you. Today on the show, we have Heidi Lynn from New Brunswick, Canada who shares the healing story of her birthing in full power with her second baby in the support of her husband and a traditional midwife. After a deeply traumatic childbirth experience in hospital with her first, it took her a long time to even be willing to consider a second child. She was left violated and angry. And knowing deep in her gut, this second birth needed to be different than what she had found in the hospital. So she did the work. Heidi educated herself, found her new team, and dedicated herself to birthing at home. Any power that was stripped away from her in her first birth, she reclaimed in her second.
Speaker 2
I it is a tricky thing to think about, would I take back my first birth experience? Like, if only I had known that I probably should have been at home and and whatnot. But honestly, my first birth is what led me to the knowledge that I have now and what led me to, to have this second birth. And in addition to that, I now feel that I can kind of provide this, I guess, really important community and compassion to other women, that I really just want to be a bridge for women who have are between where I am now. Like, they've had the traumatic birth, haven't yet had the healing one, and I just don't know if that's possible for them. And I just wanna be a bridge there to share my experience and just let them know, yes, you can do this. This is, possible for you. Kind of the mantra I have with that is, it wasn't you, it was your environment. And obviously, that's not always true. Had I have gone into labor at twenty five weeks, I probably would have gone to the hospital. But in most cases, a lot of the trauma that's happening is unnecessary. It's happening to healthy mothers and babies. And, there's no need to repeat that in another birth. So that's kind of what I want people to know, because when I started first researching and considering a home birth, I really just didn't wanna be in the hospital. And it is true, I didn't necessarily wanna be at home yet. I wasn't in that place. I just knew I had to look at my options because I felt such anxiety whenever I pictured going to the hospital. I just didn't want to do it. And I would get panicky and kind of, you know, it just was not good. Not a good mental space when you're going into birth. You don't want to be like that. So, so that's kind of why I started reading about it. But it Well,
Speaker 1
so take take back me up a little bit. So you're pregnant with your first, and your health you know, your birth is is free in Canada. And so you just kind of default sign up with a hospital. And what happens?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I did all the OB appointments, all the tests that they offer, everything, all the ultrasounds. And in fact, I actually probably should start there, just because it's an important piece of the puzzle, I think, is the prenatal care. They actually told me they were concerned she was too small, which, as I'm sure you know, all baby size concerns are almost always legit nonsense. And so they started giving me ultrasounds every single week, which is insane. And I didn't want to do it. I didn't like going. I felt it was unnecessary, but I didn't have the wherewithal to stand up for
Speaker 1
well, sure. And when they're when they're saying they're worried about your baby, then
Speaker 2
But, yeah. The first time I felt legit, the problem came when every single time I went, they measured and said, everything's perfect. Come back next week. And I kept going, but why? Mhmm. You just said everything's fine and the concern was not valid. So why are you making me come back every week? And by the way, she turned out to be seven seven Mhmm. At exactly forty weeks pretty well. Yeah. So no, she was not. There were no issues. And in case you're wondering, I'm ninety five pounds soaking wet in five two. So, she was a really good size for me, but we'll get to that again later. So, I mean, it was, the one positive thing that came out of that was that the lady who the OB who was in charge of doing the scans actually ended up being the one on call when I gave birth. And so it was a familiar face, which was a small grace in the horrible environment I was in was that it wasn't a stranger down there necessarily.
Speaker 1
Did you have any when you went into labor and you went to the hospital, did you have nervousness yet? Or did that all come like, where what was your state heading into your first labor in the hospital?
Speaker 2
There is one event that I need to I mean, there is a test I had done a couple days before that really sent me into a downward spiral. But before that point, I had the normal first mom, oh my goodness, how's the baby gonna come out of there? And it was enough that I should have read some positive birth stuff. I sh I was, I didn't have faith in my body. A lot of that is just normal patriarchy stuff. I was always labeled as a princess no matter what I did. I took rock climbing and white water rafting as my college course, but no matter what I did, people are just like, you're small and you're this, you're that. And I had no faith in my body. I was like, oh, I'm weak cause I'm small and blah, blah, blah. And that's how people treated me. And I internalized that. And I was always trying to, you know, kind of do whatever. And yeah, so that is kind of something that started when I was really young. And when you carry something that long, yeah, it can affect something like birth because your body does this incredible thing. And if you don't believe that you're strong, you're built to do that, like, oh, you're not built for this. You're not, oh, your pelvis is too small. You can't, you know, you hear all these weird things when you're timing you like, oh, you can't birth vaginally or you can't, you know, there's all this. So anyway, that is not helpful. So then the week that, they gave me a dating ultrasound, they pushed my due date back a week, which I believe was incorrect because or push Yeah, they made it a week earlier. I I knew when I got pregnant and she was born within the day of my date, but to them, she was eight days over. So I say that because the the week that she was born, which was a pretty good time, I thought my waters broke because I didn't know what I was looking for. And I thought maybe I should go to the hospital because I just was anxious at that point, you know, like hopefully this is starting type of thing. And so I went and, I don't know if you've ever seen this done, but I guess, and I don't remember what it's called, but there's a test that they can do to see if your waters have broken. And I got in college, just happened to be there, and she was very nice. And she was looking at me like, I really don't wanna do this to you. I'm really sorry. Like, this is not a fun test. I'm gonna be as gentle as I can. I'm sorry, like, involve this tool. And it's like, she let me know, like, this is gonna hurt and I'm so really sorry. Like, she felt bad. She didn't wanna do it to me. And so she did it, and, yeah, it hurt a lot. And I bawled the whole way home.
Speaker 1
Wait. What? What test are you the tests I've seen are just, little, like, pH strips that test the
Speaker 2
Oh, no. No. She stuck some tool up there. I am sorry. I can't tell you what it was called. Interesting. But there is, there I think just they opened up and then put something else in there to, like, feel it or something. But it was more of a scraping. Yeah. And it was almost like a scraping up there. And I balled the whole way home because I just thought to myself, that hurts so bad. And if I can't even sit through that, which was only, like, sixty seconds long, how am I going to give birth? And I was defeated right there and then. Done. Like, I just I lost all belief that I was gonna
Speaker 1
be Right. In between that and the concern this false concern about the baby being small, so all these extra ultrasounds on top of a lifetime of being, you know, told you're so little, all of that, you know, starts to break your trust in the system, right? So, you this this final couple days before you go into labor now, you have this experience that just like starts to chip away at your trust.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, at that point, I think I'm overdue. I'm hormonal and exhausted, not sleeping anymore at that point because I'm so big. So, yeah, it was a perfect storm. They did that test and it was just like, yeah, it just broke. And that was it. Wait,
Speaker 1
wait, wait, say that again? The, the waters broke when they did the test? No, no,
Speaker 2
no, no, no. I broke emotionally. Okay. So, I broke emotionally now. So yeah, that was not good. And that was probably two or maybe four days, I'm fuzzy on that, maybe four days before actual labor started. I had hired a doula, by the way, for the first one. She was a little sister of a friend of mine and, she was still getting her certification. I think it was like her sixth birth. And, you know, she brought a lot of essential oils and things like that. Very like minded with me. She was very good.
Speaker 1
And they have confirmed that the waters were not opened, I'm assuming.
Speaker 2
At the hospital, yes.
Speaker 1
Okay. They
Speaker 2
were not opened. So I was like, ugh. Like, I just want like, I was done for being pregnant, of course. So, a couple days later, I had pre strung Braxton Hicks through the end of my first pregnancy. And, a couple days later, I think I was in early labor for about twelve hours all day without really knowing because my Braxton Hicks are just, like, real labor. And, so I didn't know it was early labor. I couldn't quite tell yet because I didn't really know what I was looking for, if it was gonna feel the same or not. But by seven o'clock that night, my husband had come home from work, and I knew, like, I had all of a sudden, one hit me. Just out of the blue, it went from, like, oh, this might this maybe could be to holy crap. That was painful. Like, just I was like, woah. And he was kinda clicking there watching TV, I think just, like, not believing I was actually finally in labor. And then I finally just like, no, like, I am in pain. Like and, I texted my doula. I let her know, like, I texted her something like, which breaks my heart now, but I texted her something like, if this is not real labor, like, I'm not gonna be able to do it. If it gets any worse than this, I'm done. Like, because that was already the mindset that I was in. And my contractions, to be fair, at that point were I don't get really breaks between mine. They're kind of, like, on top of each other. Her that's how it was the first time. So she ended up coming over around eleven, and we didn't stay home very long. I had plan that I wanted to as long as possible, but I became afraid of driving in the car because and it was painful to drive in the car. I I did not use a seat belt, and I it was raining, and I had to keep getting him to stop so I could jump out. Like, I could not be sitting. I couldn't use an exercise ball or anything. Like, that position for me was no, no way. So, we drove to the hospital, and then I got my next great bit of news. You know how encouraging they are about progressing in the hospital? And they checked me. I think I was like two centimeters. They said, like, nope, not admitting you. They said, you can walk stairs for two hours, and then maybe you'll be ready. So I walked stairs while having, like, blended contractions that weren't that were to me, like, this is what I was hearing at the time. I'm in so much pain, I'm barely coping. But I'm not anywhere near giving birth, and it's gonna get worse, like, every minute. So I'm just, like, you know, I'm losing it at this point. Like, oh my goodness. Like, I'm probably starting to enter panic mode. I'm I'm sure my adrenaline was upping at that point and my other hormones that should have been there were not. And, so anyway, I walked stairs for two hours, which now, like, as soon as I told my birth attendant that story, she was aghast and basically said they never should have had you walk stairs that early on. That is not what the stairs are for, and they exhausted you before the real work. And they did. So I came back after the two hours, and guess what I heard? Nope. Nothing happened. Go home. So at that point, like, I'm still in the mental state of, oh my goodness. I just like, I was basically in tears for those two hours trying to force myself up and down flights and flights of hospital stairs through this insane amount of pain. And they tell me I'm no further along. I'm still at the not even at the beginning of the So
Speaker 1
boot camp.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So then they, at that point, I broke. I had wanted no drugs, and I already broke. And I look back, and I just think, like, I know how much it meant to me to be drug free. And the fact that I broke that early probably just made the whole thing even worse. They they gave me morphine in my hip so that I could get some rest or something.
Speaker 1
So gave you morphine and then still sent you home?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it turned out looking back, all things considered, it turned out to be a good thing with the knowledge that I didn't have then, etcetera, etcetera, because it did give me a couple hours of sleep. And had I known what was ahead, I really needed the sleep. I couldn't lay down, or the contractions were too powerful, so I was so exhausted by this point. I fell asleep sitting on the floor beside my bed with my head like this. Now, you don't know me, but I'm physically incapable of napping, especially in any position that's not, like, in the comfiest bed in the world. So, my husband can do that, but I can't. So, the fact that I fell asleep like that is both a testament to the morphine and how tired I was. So I got up. My doula stayed in our spare bed, and I got up after a while. And, it did kick things into gear a little bit. And then I threw up, and we went back to the hospital, contracting the whole way again. This time, they admitted me. I had a nurse in the room sitting beside me the whole time. And I was never really able to put my finger on it at the time. But looking back now, I know it was not the right energy. There was something. I can't put my finger on it, but there was something, and her energy was not right. And I almost it could have been that I was on a lot of drugs. It could have been a lot of things, but I felt that she was looking down her nose at me a lot, even though she was technically being kind and helping me. I just could feel something that I didn't like. And it was, so right away when they admitted me, I got fentanyl. And I just remember hearing the nurses saying, Oh, there's a smile finally. Because I was sitting in this chair and all of a sudden I just kinda like finally kinda relaxed a little bit. And I was like, Oh, good. Like the fentanyl worked really well for a little while. Later on, I ended up going through two tanks of laughing gas. At that point, they I love this one, because apparently this is the common one I'm seeing now on on the birth groups. They told me if I accepted an epidural, I would sleep. So I kinda looked up my doula, kinda was like, like, she had seen me suffer long enough and Tim had seen me suffer long enough. And I was kinda like, like, if they're saying it's okay, like, all right. Like, that's the space I was in. So I left them. I didn't feel it. I don't remember it bothering me because I was on so many other things, but it didn't work. And I felt he kept I could see him keep coming in the corner of the room and whispering above me, which was super helpful that people in the corner
Speaker 1
What do you mean it didn't work?
Speaker 2
I felt everything. The epidural, I did not get to sleep at all because the contractions were still way
Speaker 1
too painful. Still feel sensations.
Speaker 2
And he was in the corner going, like, I've given her so many. Like, she shouldn't be able to move her legs. Like, why is she moving around? And I was like, I'm right here, and I can kinda hear you even though I'm really hot. And that's not helpful, obviously, to have people whispering about you in the corner. And then, so the one thing that it did do was make me unable to feel my ejection reflex and when I should be pushing. So then, the whole labor ended up being thirty six hours, the twelve early at home, and twenty four of really heavy. There were several times I found reading IMA's book so interesting because there was she talks about seeing a woman close her cervix, like, checking her one minute. And, well, there was a time when my OB was on vacation, and I had to go to a different one for my checkup. Had to. And he gave me the creeps. I did not like him, and I left there going, man, I'm glad he's not my OB. I don't know what it was, but something about him, like, I was not okay with him. Well, I don't know how it is for you and your hospitals, but here our OBs don't, like, up and jump and attend your birth. It's whoever's on call. So it's almost kind of silly to go see one person through all your appointments because they're not gonna be the one there anyway.
Speaker 1
Are they transparent about that?
Speaker 2
It never got brought up. I think it's assumed that it's a known thing because we've grown up and lived with socialized health care so long. We know that
Speaker 1
There's no private practices.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's how things go. So, she came in around noon. This would be the next day because I had the heavy labor night before and broke my water. And then they're like, oh, baby will be here by three. She was born at seven thirty. And meanwhile, there's a
Speaker 1
huge talk. I love how they can just, like, think they can guess. It's, like, so weird to me.
Speaker 2
The pain Well, they saw I think and I think they just saw, like, wow. She's in heavy labor, and we broke her water. Like, of course, it won't take more than three hours. So what
Speaker 1
What what kind of evidence in the unknown and what, like, what kind of God do you think you are?
Speaker 2
They learn about birth from a textbook. Yeah. And there's nothing textbook about birth. As soon as you try to put birth in a box, you know, you're done. So, and there's this huge clock in the wall in front of me the whole time and I'm looking at it waiting for three o'clock.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Waiting for your baby to pop out.
Speaker 2
I know. So then there's this other breaking point of it's three and they're telling me I'm still not, you know, whatever. And that's the other thing. I had no vaginal checks the second time, which was awesome. Because the first time, all I heard was not progressing, not progressing. Nope. The baby's not coming. Nope. Nope.
Speaker 1
I mean, with your second birth, you had no vaginal checks.
Speaker 2
Right. Right. Right. Right. Story. Yeah. So that was really great because I didn't have anyone tell me, oh, basically the baby's gonna be stuck in there forever, so don't bother, you know, which is what it felt like the first time. So, they broke my waters and I, they continued giving me various drugs. I was in full on panic mode. A couple of times, I moved too much and the nitrous oxide would come up, the mask would come apart and I would lose it. Like and I remember I I have very blurry memories, but that I remember. If it fell off, I panicked. Like, get that back on me. I cannot
Speaker 1
It's like your lifeline.
Speaker 2
It's my lifeline. Totally. And so I was hysterical by that point. And now looking back, I'm like, how the heck did I even give vaginal birth? I haven't a clue. And I did hear them whispering about a c section at one point. Oh, I'm sure. And now I just wanna cry thinking about that because I realize how unnecessary it would have been and how close it was to happening. And it was all because my needs weren't met. Like, how silly. Big white open room, all the lights on. I can't tell you how many different doctors and nurses came in because I was there for so long. Several different doctors were on call. I think I saw three different gynecologists. Well, yeah. I saw mine, the creepy guy, and then the one who actually ended up delivering was the one who had been doing my ultrasounds. And I was thankful in a way because at that point, whatever they said was gonna happen, I was in no place to stand up for myself or say what needed to happen. I I wasn't going to. If they said c section, that's what was gonna happen. And I wouldn't have known any different about if it was necessary or not. And so she kinda came in and said, no, no, no. We're delivering this baby right now. So in a way, like, I'm thankful for her because she did say do that one thing for me. But basically, she came in and said, like, here's what's happening. There's a lip of cervix. It's not getting out of the way. So, I delivered with her hand up me holding it over, which was just lovely. So, and now I I honestly I haven't looked into it enough to know how I feel about that now. My guess is that environmental and maybe even drug factors just meant that I was not progressing properly because I was just not in a birth state, because I don't think the lipocervix thing should have been an issue. I think that was more of a hospital issue.
Speaker 1
Well, and if, you know, if you had given your labor another six hours, you know, and you were having strong I'm just making up six hours as arbitrary amount of time. But if you gave your body more time and if your waves were still nice and strong and, you know, quite possibly as the baby descended, her head would have just pushed out, you know, the rest of the cervix. So there's a lot of factors to it.
Speaker 2
And my husband talks about being alarmed because when the head was near, we tried they actually ended up, like, sticking two fingers, like, into the skull and, like, yanking her out, and apparently her head was bruised after. And though I'm glad they didn't use forceps for my sake and for hers, that wasn't a pleasant way to come into the world, I'm sure. Yeah. And, she actually, she had a bit of a fit a day or two ago because we were talking about birth and, it was, she asked about the hospital and Tim said something about her being born in the hospital and she said, You know better, daddy. I was not, like, had birth envy from it.
Speaker 1
I bet. How old is
Speaker 2
she? She's three and a half. But she knows that her little sister was born at home and we had a big long talk about it. And anyway, yeah, for a little guinea pig. But, but again, it had to happen to get me here. And because of that, I will be able to raise two daughters, hopefully, who know that birth does not need to be feared. Right. And they'll know that. And, and I'll be able to tell them all the positive things about it. So I'm glad for that. But anyway, so back to the hospital story. So they ended up, yeah, kind of pulling her out, which wasn't awesome. In order for me to even get her that far, they had tried so many positions for me. They ended up giving me a row bar, like, to pull my arms, because I wasn't pushing her enough my legs, probably all the drugs. And, I remember them constantly telling me not to push. Like, I felt like my body was pushing. And they were saying, no, not yet. Like, don't tire yourself out. Like, work with the contractions. So they were telling me when the contraction was, and then I would push. And then I was like, I can't help it. Like, my body's doing it. It hurts to try to stop it. Like, my body's pushing. And there was just this so many people surrounding me at this point. Like, just so many people in the room that I just think, why were that many people in there? Yeah, and
Speaker 1
you're in the most vulnerable, like, vagina out on your back.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And it was and I knew enough that I knew I didn't want a birth on my back. But obviously, once I had an epidural and all that other stuff, that's what was left. And, and honestly, I didn't get out of bed. I was, I was not in a, like I said, I was not in a birth, state in my mind and with the hormones and all of that good stuff. So I actually, like every time I got up, I panicked more because it made things hurt more. So I was the one that ended up putting myself in bed really even before the drugs. And that's just because I was panicking and, you know, I was really terrified at that point. And never in my wildest dreams did I think it was gonna take thirty six hours and that I was gonna be there that long. And I had on my birth plan delayed cord clamping. I didn't know enough to say don't take my baby away for like a couple hours. Well, I did, I did kind of say that. It just didn't end up mattering because they did it anyway. But I guess what they did was they waited like a few seconds, maybe a minute, and then they milked the cord and thought that that would somehow equal what I had asked for, which was let it stop pulsing, which is nothing, like you can't just milk the cord. So, and I was too out of it to, like, oversee that, you know? And, and, at this point they gave her to me. She did, she luckily breastfed wonderfully and instantly, but it felt like they just took her from me right away to go wash her and whatever else. And I was, and I remember in my head, I was just like, but, but she was latched, but she was feeding. Like, why would you stop that to take her away? She's breastfeeding, like, let her finish, you know? I don't know why they would do that. And that's
Speaker 1
because because you're not on because you're on their time. They're not on your time.
Speaker 2
Yes. It will.
Speaker 1
I mean, in order to transfer you to postpartum, they have to chart. You know? They have to
Speaker 2
check all their boxes. Thing to note here is that I ended up, by luck of the draw, getting a private room because they were not busy. There was so I know that there was no need for them to rush that because they were not busy
Speaker 1
with the recruiter. It's not about being busy. It's about it's it's about, like, certain protocols need to happen within sixty minutes postpartum, within a hundred and twenty minutes postpartum. Things need to happen before you transfer rooms. You know, all the nurses have different things that are that they're in charge of that they have to complete before they can move on and say that your case is closed. You know, it has I mean and if they're busy, they'll rush it, but if they're just in their normal time frame, yeah, it's protocol, man. They've they've got their job to do, and and your baby breastfeeding, you know, on on your baby's time is not what it's based around.
Speaker 2
No. And I I don't know. Like I say, it was quite high, but I don't know how long they left her, but it couldn't have been more than five or ten minutes. And then my husband held her the whole time while I was getting stitched up. I had a second degree tear. And I, I actually know a friend who tore worse than that, and they let her hold her baby the whole time she was getting stitched so she wouldn't feel the pain. But my husband held the baby and bonded that whole time, which is lovely for him, but they took my baby away.
Speaker 1
But it was your thirty six hour labor. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, so And I don't I don't begrudge him that. I really don't. But they should not have taken away a breastfeeding baby. Absolutely. Like, it's the mother that they have to have that with at the very beginning. So, that would have to
Speaker 1
be a part of that model.
Speaker 2
No, no. It's not evidence based care. And I you can't expect evidence based care when you go to the hospital, which is
Speaker 1
It's literally like me going to McDonald's being like, I want an organic vegan salad with Yeah. Local, you know, local farm raised, you know, blah blah blah. Like, it's the it doesn't they doesn't compute. So, okay. So let's let's keep going. So
Speaker 2
so you have And that's the false sense of having a birth plan. Right? You think they're going to actually acknowledge it. Totally. But anyway, so this all led me to, kind of It took me two years to, I mean, to really get a good handle on processing that and why I felt traumatized because I think I felt guilty for a long time about why do I feel traumatized. We were both healthy. We both came out safe. We're both okay. I'm not allowed to have these feelings, these negative feelings about my birth experience, I'm not allowed to feel. But I had at least some postpartum blues, and almost all of them were revolving around the fact that either around the fact that I wasn't in a village, the metaphorical one, I guess, and that, my birth was not what I wanted, that I felt I didn't do a good job. I was ashamed. I felt defeated, I felt like no one was proud of me, and I didn't, like, who's looking for that external kind of, like, pat on the back, like, I didn't do a good job, like, I ended up having drugs, you know? I just wasn't, it's not something that I'm able to do, I'm just, it's, some women find it easy, but I just can't. Mhmm. And that is, again, another message I wanna make sure people get because, if you feel like that, that's me. There was me, at least. I was always one of those people. Like, I can relate to that, to the feeling of, you know, other people are stronger than me. Other people can do this or that. But, you know, I just can't. But no, I'm built for birth, too. And now I have the proof of that. And I feel that very deeply internalized now. But at the time, it took me a really long time to decide I wanted to get pregnant again because I was so terrified of birth. And I just really did not believe that it could be any different because I thought that it was my fault. I totally Totally.
Speaker 1
And your birth proved all of the stories that you'd been told. Yeah. You know, that that that you're that you're broken essentially is what women are taught and trained, Whether it's because they're too big or too small or, you know, too black or or too brown or too poor. I mean, just there's there's always reasons to other, you know, somebody and and unfortunately, you know, your birth is such a common, you know, story that proves that proved all of the societal, you know, cultural lies that you've been told about yourself.
Speaker 2
That's exactly it. Yeah. And it and I had bought into all that without even knowing it, but I mean, we're brainwashed with it from day one, we're told. I mean, and especially this is something that I'm going to delve into deeper. You know, someday, I will write all of I will write a book on this maybe, but, another aspect you have to consider, well, some people is that for some people, a part of their life has been fundamentalism in their religious sense, can be really any religion. And in those senses, you from birth are told phrases like weaker vessel over and over and over again. Things like that. There's actually a lot that I could say, but that that's one that comes instantly to mind. That's
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. That that, you know, Eve suffered. I mean
Speaker 2
Yes. That's another important one. And I didn't learn that until this pregnancy that and I went to bible college, okay? Like, I mean, I'm a different person now, but this is some of my background. This was ten years ago. And, yet somehow I never managed to learn there. I learned a lot about Greek and Hebrew and all these different translations and how to do good work, you know, deciphering if translations are good. But I never learned that the word that is used for Eve having pain and labor is the exact same word that they use for Adam toiling with his labor, and that that word got changed way later in the translation when patriarchy started really taking hold. Basically to put women under their thumb. So unless you think that a man who's going to work at a desk job or delivering the mail or driving a truck, whatever it is a man has for a job, unless you think that he's in he absolutely has to experience pain doing those jobs, then there's yeah, there's no logic. Because I have actually had people tell me, who are religious, that it would be, like, unholy for a woman not to feel pain during birth, or it would be wrong, like, because it's something that's
Speaker 1
Yeah, they're meant to suffer.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's how we pay back or whatever.
Speaker 1
Oh my God, because we're dirty, dirty little sluts.
Speaker 2
I mean First of all, if you want to get religious about it, it's completely contradictory to the New Testament. Totally. And we don't have to go there, but it's, but those are just a few things that, you know, everyone has their own issues that they bring to birth in addition to the ones that our general society brings to us. And so Which are those that are deeply interwoven. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1
we're founded on a very Christian kind you know, northern hemisphere.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. And it and it matters. All of those little things matter. They all add up. It all culminates into one great big birth lie, one big feminine lie. Mhmm. And So take
Speaker 1
me start to start to pivot me towards your towards your free birth.
Speaker 2
Okay. So, I know a girl here who actually free birthed unassisted, just her and her husband. And I think I was in a mommy group with her. I'm trying to remember exactly what happened, but I think I made a comment about something and she private messaged me and said, basically, like, this is what I did. And there's actually some women in town who meet to discuss this type of thing if you're feeling like yours was traumatic.
Speaker 1
So you're already pregnant or you're not pregnant?
Speaker 2
No. This is
Speaker 1
Okay.
Speaker 2
I think this is, like, around the time of getting pregnant. Okay. So, so that was just a seed planted that was in the back of my head. So a lot of time passed. And then, when I did get pregnant, I decided to probe a little bit further into that. I got onto that a group on facebook of local moms who are mostly home birthers with this underground sort of movement. And I watched for a while. I didn't really participate. I didn't really I just kind of like the group was there. And I just kind of thought about it.
Speaker 1
Can you speak really quickly, though, for people who don't know about the Canadian birth situation about midwives and the just a brief, like, synopsis of the or analysis, I mean, of the policy.
Speaker 2
So I'm no expert on this, so I apologize if I botch any of the smaller details. But, basically, we can give birth for free in the hospital. We're on, like, a socialized Medicare system. So most of us do that because it obviously really encourages it to be the norm when it's free and kind of a no fuss in that regard. And so, but a lot of our provinces do have regulated midwives. I think we were actually one of the last to get it, or as I would now say, holding out against it. But we actually just started a trial this year. So I believe there's one mid regulated midwife now. There's been before they're in the city of Fredericton and they're working, I believe in the hospital only for the time being. And so that's kind of the situation, but there's a really strong underground movement here of unregulated midwives, which I knew nothing about until my second pregnancy. I didn't know that existed. I didn't know it was an option. I thought that because we didn't have regulated midwives, home birth couldn't happen. That was my honest to goodness belief. I just thought, oh, like, that can't be done. And a lot of women here believe that I'm learning as which is why I'm so loud. Like, I didn't tell anyone during my pregnancy once I did decide that I was having home birth. I didn't really tell anybody, because I knew that people were gonna judge it or think it was dangerous, and I didn't want the negative energy when I was doing so much work to fight that off. And, it's
Speaker 1
And and just to be clear for the listeners, so Heidi had a free birth with a traditional birth attendant to to be there to hold space. So somebody who is very trained in what normal birth is and how to support birth, but is not a regulated midwife. You could call her a midwife, but now that midwifery is kind of so owned by the state and government, a lot of these traditional birth attendants don't use that term. So there are these underground birth attendants that hold space and, you know, from what I understand, I mean, you could speak better to it because you've actually had a birth with them. You know, there's no intervention. There's no management of care. It's Heidi in charge, you know, mama in charge, being the leader, you know, managing whatever she wants to manage within her own care. And they're there like a grandmother in the village would be to come attend the birth as a wise person who's very, well versed in birth. Would you say that's an accurate overview?
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. And the women I've had, they've seen hundreds of births.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
They've seen hundreds of scenarios, and they've done home births themselves. And
Speaker 1
I Do they carry any medical stuff to the birth?
Speaker 2
I very minimal. Like, they brought me a birth tub in case I wanted that. They had a fetoscope. They had a few things like that. Mostly, things for me afterwards, like they brought me cramp bark. I get really bad afternoons, arnica. They helped my husband figure out how to do the smoothies and they cut things.
Speaker 1
What's that noise? Is that thunder? Woah.
Speaker 2
Nope. Nope. Sorry. I believe that is a child riding something upstairs. Child or thunder? That's pretty amazing that this microphone is Yeah.
Speaker 1
That was weird. It went away. It went away. So they don't bring anything medical, like like, oxygen and pitocin and all the stuff that are regulated in
Speaker 2
the way they don't bring. None of that. I don't know how they would get their hands on that legally anyway in their position. Right.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
But, even if they wanted to, which I know they would not. And, yeah, it was a wonderful experience. They did all the cleanup. They brought me some food after. Did postnatal checkups too. And, anyhow, so, yes, they they would have if I asked for it, but they, you know, they have broken water stuff before when the mom really wants it for one reason.
Speaker 1
Right. You get to decide. They don't want it to be a separate.
Speaker 2
Yeah, but typically they prefer to be hands off, which was wonderful. I felt so uninterrupted. And I really, being able to compare the two births has really helped me to, decipher WHAT WAS CAUSING WHAT IN THE HOSPITAL AS OPPOSED TO HOME. LIKE, WHENEVER SOMEBODY TALKED TO ME OR GIVEME A VIGINAL EXAM, I HAD TO PULL OUT OF ANY BIRTH STATE I MIGHT HAVE gotten into and focus my attention to what was happening, basically. And so I really couldn't focus on the work of birth because there were people asking for my attention Yeah. Constantly constantly outside of my body and I really needed to go inside of myself.
Speaker 1
So bring me back to when you decide you're watching this Facebook group, you're thinking about, okay, I'm not gonna go to the hospital, I'm gonna birth at home, you're now pregnant, you reach out to this birth attendant. You shared with me before we started recording the call that you had with her. Do you wanna share I thought that was pretty awesome. Wanna share that?
Speaker 2
Okay. So I just love this woman to bits. I call I got I got the name of two birth attendants from the friend that I mentioned who had a home birth. And she had had the other one on call in case she wanted somebody. And I watched the group for a while. And I don't know, at some point, one of them said something and I just kind of related to her and I just thought I'll give her a call. And, so I think I wrote her a message on Facebook, said this is what's going on. And she basically said, like, call me, here's my number. And I honestly think I held onto it for a couple weeks before I finally called her because this was such a process for me and my mind to get around even considering it. I have some friends who have home birthed who have really stayed out of the medical system, and I, honestly, I talked behind their back. I thought it was ridiculous. And I didn't understand it at the time. I just was not there yet. I thought it was dangerous. I thought it was reckless. And that was a lack of information on my part. But I am so grateful for these friends because even though I thought they weren't getting to me and I thought they were silly, they did plant seeds that helped me in this process later on when I opened up more. So, I gave her a call and I didn't know what to make of her. She was kinda like, almost kinda cold, which is funny because she's a total sweetheart. So I was kinda nervous talking to her. And, we had never met in person yet. And she said something, she's like, Well, why? Why are you considering a home birth? And I told her, like, my first birth is terrible. I really don't wanna be in the hospital again. She said, Well, that's not a good reason to have a home birth. And I was kinda like, what? So
Speaker 1
And what did that and why do you think she asked why do you think she said that? What did you take from that?
Speaker 2
Well, I I feel she's still a little a little bit, I still feel a little bit confused about it, but I think where she was what she was getting at was that, if I'm scared of birth, it doesn't really matter where I'm giving birth. And I think that she picked up from me, like, the very obvious fear in my voice of I'm too scared to go back to the hospital. But it wasn't necessarily the hospital. I was scared of birth. The hospital. But it wasn't necessarily the hospital. I was scared of birth, and she's very intelligent and intuitive that way, and I, I think that she picked up on that, and that's the kind of message she was trying to get through my head. So I then proceeded to try to kind of convince her, like, no, please meet with me. Like, I can't do that again. So she basically said, like, if you wanna meet me, send me a message, and I'll come over for a few hours, and we'll have a consultation. And this is what, you know, that looks like, and whatever. So I then kind of like cautiously walked across the kitchen toward my husband one night. And I was like, so I wanna have a consultation. My husband's a paramedic, by the way. So he is trained for worst case scenario. He's been at some births basically pretty much after the baby's out, he gets there. And they think they have to go to the hospital. Right? So they call the ambulance. Oh, we had a safe birth at home. Baby's here. Let's go to the hospital now. Emergency. So this is what so, yeah, he's done a few of those. So I'm like, I might I kinda just wanna meet with this lady and just kind of see what my options are. Like, if I really have to go back to the hospital or if there's another option. And he's just kinda like, I am not okay with that. Not in a controlling way, but I scared the crap out of him because he watched me for thirty six hours. Like, he like, really freaking out and in so much pain. And, like, the more I talked to him about it, he had a couple really valid reasons. A, he's clearly got some PTSD from his job, and he did not wanna have to do CPR on his own baby if if it ever came to that. And, b, he did not wanna see me in that much pain without drugs. And he was in the same head space I was that I was gonna need him. Like, I didn't, he didn't know if I could do it and I didn't know if I could do it. And so, I read Anna May's Guide to Childbirth First. So, we had a meeting with the birth attendant and she came over and they both have like very dry sarcastic humor, her and my husband. So, they hit it off right away. And then like, you could feel a lot of the tension in the room. It was like, all of a sudden she left and he's like, sure, let's do it. Like, one of them over right now. Nice. And he was still a little uncomfortable at that point, but he I think when he first heard me talking to her about my first birth, he first saw my trauma because I had hidden it a lot. And I think he didn't realize, what he had done to me because we were both healthy and everything. He wasn't in my head. Right? He saw everything go pretty normally. You know, I was panicking, but everything went well. I didn't get a c section. So I don't think he understood what was going on in my head in terms of losing my voice and all of that stuff.
Speaker 1
So sad that we've come to a point in society today that what determines a good birth is you didn't get a c section. You know? How many how many people say that? Like, oh, I made it I made it out of there without getting cut open. That that's, like, the bar that that that obstetrics has set for us.
Speaker 2
What a terrible bar. It really it's truly tragic. And even I've had friends tell me, I think people on Facebook now can tell, where I'm at with my views on birth. And because I post a lot of stuff and I have so when friends have had babies, I've said things to them like, oh, you know, I'm obviously really glad if they felt they've had a good experience. But when they describe their good experience, the the bar that they use, like, Oh, you know, they did this and they did that. And I'm like, Woah, is that all we want? Like, no.
Speaker 1
It really it really comes down to at least my baby's alive.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And, you know,
Speaker 1
and it's At at first first, it's at least I have a healthy baby. And if your baby is not healthy, it's at least my baby is alive. And if your baby is not alive, it's at least we were in the hospital, so we did everything we could. I mean, that those are the brackets that we're working with.
Speaker 2
And it's just such a slippery slope, the interventions and and it's, it's just it's such a big topic really, but
Speaker 1
I'll Okay. Well, let's
Speaker 2
go back. Let's go back
Speaker 1
to here. We're almost we're almost out of time. So let's go to
Speaker 2
your your
Speaker 1
free birth story.
Speaker 2
Okay. So, basically, after I met with her, then I was really like, okay. This is a viable option, but I hadn't jumped in yet. I read a couple more books. One was Birthing the Easy Way by Sheila Stubbs. I don't know if you've read that one. It's actually a Canadian author and it's amazing. This is from, my birth attendant lent me a bunch of books and I read and I read and I read. And, this one specifically had a chapter on statistics between home and hospital births. And it's just amazing to me that we assume women are being dangerous or reckless giving home birth when the statistics say otherwise. And so that's the book I asked my husband to read because I said to him, like, look, I I understand you got the message that you're not an important part of this puzzle the first time because of how the hospital is set up. But if you come in here with negative energy, it does matter. And you can't be there unless you believe in me. So read this book, and I'm hoping it'll help you get to where I am at, where I'm believing in me again, because I'm gonna need you to help me with that because it's hard for me. So he did it. He read the book, and he did feel a lot better afterward and got totally on board. And I got to a place where I was excited to give birth, which I really didn't think was possible because I had been so scared previously. So the rest of the pregnancy, I think it was around twenty, twenty two weeks I met with her because I realized how many weeks I was and I was like, wow, if I don't do something soon, I'm gonna end up in the hospital again. And then I finally picked up the phone. That's when I was finally like, okay, I have to at least do this much because I can't end up back there again. And that's what's gonna happen if I don't make another plan. So, yeah, I continued going to my OB appointments kind of senselessly because all I did was weigh me and take my blood pressure and send me home. And the last one I called and I was like, not coming. Like and, just stayed at home and waited. And she actually came the next day, like forty days, one week, I believe. And, so the labor, it was interesting because, I don't know if you've ever experienced this or had anyone say this, but I labored through the night, but I was asleep and resting perfectly, but I knew I was in labor. And I don't really know how else to explain that. It's very strange to me. Like, I was like, I remember in my sleep being like, oh, I'm having contractions, but I stayed asleep and I rested. And when writing my birth story, I kind of, I talked about how I don't think that could have happened if I was having a hospital birth because I'm a light sleeper and I would have woken myself up. I would have been like, blabber. And I would have been like, I have to go somewhere. I have things to do. Then I was like, oh, I'm at home where I need to be and so
Speaker 1
There's nothing to do.
Speaker 2
There's nothing to do. And I stayed asleep. Can you imagine? I would have felt ten more hours of labor. I would have been way more exhausted for it because I didn't sleep the night before. And instead, I had this beautiful gift of sleep and rest and bike. So in the morning, my husband got up from work and that did wake me when he got out of bed. And then I was like, I sat up because I was feeling them and I had a contractions timer on my phone and I was kind of like going home to do something. So I was sitting there just wondering if they were regular and my daughter was still asleep and he went down to shower and I texted him and I was like, you might not be going to work today. And he's like, well, let me know. He's like, I'd like to at least show up if I can, and if not, whatever. So he asked me before he left, and I was like, well, he only had so many sick days or vacation days that he could use, and I wanted him to use them when the baby was actually here and I needed the help. So I was like, well, go just in case, and I'll let you know if it's for real. I was ninety nine percent sure at that point. So like a half an hour later, I texted him and I was like, come home. So we had to like turn her in around and come back home. So I was here alone actually for like an hour with my daughter, and I just kind of played with her between contractions, threw some laundry in. I was feeling so calm and relaxed. And the difference between that and the whole time instead of focusing on my breathing and stuff, thinking, Oh, when do I leave? Do I leave now? Do I leave later? Oh, I have to make a decision. Do I have to do this? Do I have to that? And it was like, No, no, I just have to do it. I just have to be here. All I have to do is be. And it happens. And, so I guess my husband contacted my mom and said, can you go over there till I get back? So my mom came over. She the plan was for her to take my daughter anyway. I would have really liked for her to be here, but I personally couldn't focus. I would have been on mom mode, and I couldn't have been in a trance. I would have been trying to take care of her. So, so it ended up that she did not stay. But, my contractions from that point when I woke up in the morning were very regular, long, and very strong right from the get go. So I texted my birth attendant to say, I'm pretty sure this is the real thing. I don't know. Like, I guess probably you should come. Like, I'll let you know in a little bit maybe if you want. And she was like, no. This is the real thing. I know it.
Speaker 1
So I don't know. And she was out of town.
Speaker 2
But she was out of town. And I didn't I didn't realize that. I had known she was going out of the town the day before because she called to let me know and asked me if it made me nervous because she put another person down there due the next week. And, but I said, no, no, like, it'll be fine. I think I would know if it was gonna be tomorrow. Like, I would feel it or something. Yeah. Because I usually get vaccinated.
Speaker 1
And had you met her other partner or backup or
Speaker 2
Oh yeah. They both came to prenatal visits. So I was comfortable with both of them. And so she contacted the other one, told her to come, and meanwhile started booking her for back home. And so the second one came probably like around ten o'clock. So I was in labor here for quite a while. And then she got here and just a little bit, I'm trying to think of maybe she even beat Tim. Tim had to wait for a replacement at work and he ended up being gone a few hours. And by the time he got here, I was ready for him to be here. Like it just, it started and it just progressed, like, and I just look back at it and I go, it's not because it was a second birth. Like I know, I just know. And I really did slow things down by being in the hospital the first time. I knew it was slow things down, which is unfortunate. But, so the second time was a lot smoother, ended up being twelve hours. The pushing with the hospital birth was an hour and a half, and the pushing at home was two hours. So that was kinda something I wasn't expecting. But interestingly enough, going back to my size of ninety five pounds soaking wet and five two, my hospital baby was seven seven with all the drugs. And my home birth baby was eight eight with no drugs. So just over a pound bigger. And I, again, I I really couldn't describe it a pain as painful, extremely challenging and intense.
Speaker 1
And I think there's no I think we need to release the idea that, like, for some reason, pushing should be quicker. You know? It it's Yeah. Pushing a child through your pelvis and the whole, you know, turning and everything that the baby goes through, you know, it it's meant to take some time Yes. When it does. Obviously, you know, there's some women where it happens very quickly, but I don't think, you know, what what you had on your side was you you were having a physiological response. You got to use gravity and wiggle your hips around and be really present with it and feel your fetal ejection response. You know, with the epidural, you know, they wait until your baby is so low. Right? So they wait until the station is much, much, much lower of the baby than when you would have probably physiologically started pushing. Right? Because if you're so numbed out, you know, they'll wait till they can just, like, put their fingers up and feel the head. So, you know, had you have started pushing unmedicated with your first, who knows? It could have taken five hours.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, that's just it. And, I mean, he at home, I didn't do any directed pushing. It was just fetal ejection reflex, which was really cool to feel the difference and to feel my body just doing it, but without me having to consciously be like, oh, I'm gonna push down and bear down and, like, no, no, no. That part was really quite lovely.
Speaker 1
I remember Do you describe your your second birth as pain free?
Speaker 2
That's a hard one. I really don't like that word. That's not the right word. I I would say it was pain free, I guess, but I I would have to say that it was still very intense. But as compared to my hospital birth, my hospital birth was full of pain and full of terror and full of abuse and full of
Speaker 1
Right,
Speaker 2
it's not gonna be a bad word. And I had a hard time using that word at first because I thought, like, nobody hit me, nobody cut me, nobody, because some women do get cut against their will. I didn't. But when I look back, what happened was still abuse. It was just more of a mental abuse and it wasn't even necessarily a person doing it as much as the environment. I mean, obviously, both of us. Yeah. And, but it was nonetheless. And I had to walk a really long road before I could give myself that and say that that is what happened, so that I could move past it.
Speaker 1
I mean, the system is abusive.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 1
You know, and if if you can get through a
Speaker 2
But you can hear it to others, Right? You say, well, they somebody else got cut, so my story, you know, my story
Speaker 1
And that's not to say, you know, I mean, I have seen I have seen some births that were not abusive in the hospital. So it's not to say for anyone listening who feels triggered by this conversation, you know, that it's impossible. It's just that the fundamental, like, foundation of the system is inherently oppressive and abusive. And so the Yes. The majority of women are not escaping without rubbing up against that. But to go
Speaker 2
And that's what happens though when it's not evidence based care, like them taking my baby away, that I felt was quite abusive to both
Speaker 1
of us.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And not in either of our best interests either.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So So around your your, you know, pain free birth, I just wanna comment on that because I think a lot of people hesitate to use when it is pain free because it's still a lot of work. And so I just wanna make that distinction that you can work your ass off and have a very intense birthing experience and not experience it as pain because you're in a state of such safety and such support and wellness when everything is normalized in your environment, you know, you don't have to experience it as painful, and and so that that is that is something I, you know, I wanna amplify because that is something that it happens and that is not an uncommon experience for women to work their way soft.
Speaker 2
And I've read the stories of the women who really do have pretty chill births. I mean, it's not everybody, but it can happen for some women. And for me, yeah, it was a ton of work, which is hard. And I was weepy for some of it, or I would say, I'm so tired, or, oh, this is so hard. I don't recall ever saying this hurts so much, or anything like that. I would just say, this is hard. I'm tired. Which is a pretty normal thing to heal. Those are just facts. How much hurts. But comparing that to my hospital birth, where I was an absolute hysterical wreck, I was in absolute hysterical wreck and panic mode, I was never panicked. And that to me is an important distinction. Yeah. I was at peace. I felt in control. I felt very safe. I, you know, all of those things are so important. And I just think that comparing it to nature is the easiest way for someone to picture it if you haven't given birth yet or if you've given birth one in a hospital, but you're wondering about home birth. I mean, an animal in the wild needs a safe environment to give birth. It's why cats look for dark closets. It's why animals are able to stop their labor if there's a predator. And we can do the same thing. And so I know I stopped my labor several times. Like I said, when that creepy OB came in that I didn't like, I know I halted my labor up because I said in my head, I was like, that mustache is coming nowhere near my area. Like, and I boom. That was it. And I know I just, like, was like I could feel the adrenaline, like, the flight or flight. Like, I was like, not happening. Oops. So, that's another important thing is, like, essentially, we have the same tendencies as animals have when they birth. And these these No, no.
Speaker 1
Hold on. Let me just reframe that. We are animals. Yeah. We we are nature. So it's not about it's not even about comparing it to nature. We are nature. And and there's this whole I get really, like, hyped up about this because there's a, you know, so much conversation around, like, don't use the term normal birth and that that's offensive to people who have surgical births. And I feel for people who have, you know, different birth outcomes, but that is not a normal birth. That is a surgical birth. A normal birth is a natural normal physiological birth and that that has wide variance and
Speaker 2
but but I
Speaker 1
just yeah. I get so, like, I really think we just have to keep keep that language true. This is not comparing to nature. We are not we are not light animals.
Speaker 2
Legitimately need c sections. And I am so freaking grateful that they have them when they need them.
Speaker 1
Of course.
Speaker 2
But the rate at which they are happening, no one could call that normal either. No. The rate at which they're happening is not okay, and it's not in the best interest of healthy mothers and babies who are having that outcome.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
And that's the real problem with it. But, but again, I don't understand why we would give a respect to an like, a cat that we can't give to ourselves. We would never rush
Speaker 1
to that. What about the April the giraffe, you know, who just had a free birth right they were very other than you know millions of people watching, which is highly disturbing. You know that she had flashes and cameras around her, but other than that nobody intervened for a very long time and she had an unassisted birth and what a million people watch that and we're so fascinated by this free birth, but then they go to the hospital to have
Speaker 2
their. You need to hook up cameras in our houses next time. But I knew you were gonna bring that up, and I actually saved the quote that the vet, because I don't know if you saw the controversy, but Yes, I did. Hundreds of
Speaker 1
thousands of
Speaker 2
people were mad at him for not inducing her and relieving her of her pregnancy already. Poor, poor, bruised, dry. But he said his response was, no, she isn't late. No, she isn't overdue. No, I'm not concerned. She is taking so long, nor should you be. Pretty much all her clinical signs from a couple days ago are still true. She just isn't quite ready to give the world what it wants. And I was so thankful that the vet had that, you know, mindset, and I just thought, why can't OBs have that mindset? Why do we have it for, like, for other animals if we don't?
Speaker 1
And why can't midwives have that, you know? Because midwives are regulated, and so they're under the medical model, which is the, you know, OB model that says the opposite of what that vet said.
Speaker 2
I know. Still following the slides.
Speaker 1
When I read that vet quote, I was, like, kinda laughing to myself about maybe I'll hire a vet to do my care as a way to publicize and document that a vet actually is gonna give me better better, birth you know, prenatal care than a doctor. I thought that would be kinda funny. Oh my. Well, then
Speaker 2
and the thing is, yeah. Like, you would never rush a cat to a vet and hook it up to monitoring and and IVs and all this other stuff and expect it to give birth.
Speaker 1
I mean, post peak disconnection, you know? Yeah. And that that's why I wanted to touch on the language because we act like we are other to animals. And so it seems crazy to, you know, induce a giraffe or a c section a c section a dog or something. But, you know, we we have this other we have this disassociation from nature when, you know obviously birth sadly and interestingly is still one of our last real examples of how we are in nature's rhythms. So we are at our time so I just want to wrap up your incredible birth journey.
Speaker 2
So Yes.
Speaker 1
Anything else you wanna share or say? Sounds like a pretty badass second birth.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, we were
Speaker 1
What'd your husband make of it?
Speaker 2
I I think he would prefer if we had another kid to do it that way again as well. It was a good experience for both of us. He was more a part of it. He wasn't just an audience. He, you know, he was helping me do the squatting and all the things I was doing. The water birth did not work out. I ended up having to take my stairs.
Speaker 1
Sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 2
I ended up having to go up my stairs two at a time and kinda rock her down. I ended up birthing on my living room floor, actually, and just yeah. That part took a while. All is well and good.
Speaker 1
Will you touch on the the attendance of having a a traditional birth attendant? And what it just for people who, you know, don't want to birth unassisted, who don't wanna birth, you know, just them and their husband. What what what did they do? What was that like for you to have that space?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I I personally wasn't mentally ready for that. I needed the energy of people in the room who knew I was capable and who had seen normal birth enough to hold that space for me and to hold that belief for me and to keep me in the right place. And wow, that I grew up thinking that was all hui fui, but energy is energy matters. And what did they
Speaker 1
actually do? Like, did they touch you? Did they perform any, you know
Speaker 2
The only real touching there was, like, different times when Tim would have to go to the bathroom or whatever, I would ask them to hold my hand. I really don't want to be alone during birth, and that's me. Some women want to. I really want to have people, like, surrounding me. And they were just quiet. They were just there. And, yeah, they really just held that space. They made sure the energy in the room was good. But they
Speaker 1
But they never, like, took vitals
Speaker 2
or No. No. Nothing like that. They did put straws to my mouth when I needed water or juice or whatever. They kept me drinking because I wasn't thinking about anything like that at the time. So like
Speaker 1
the role of a doula.
Speaker 2
Yeah. They helped me get in the pool. They helped me squat, you know, and Tim had to step away for a second. They they also got they did guide me in terms of, positions and keeping me going. There was a point at the beginning where I laid in bed for a very long rest, which is fascinating to me because I was promised rest, drug induced rest in the hospital and never got any. And drug free at home, I laid down and my body just knew. My body just knew I needed a break and it just took it all away. And I think it was like a half an hour long. I just laid in bed and I was almost asleep. And this wasn't a heavy, heavy, like, labor. Nice. So, and then there was a point where she said, we really need to get you moving again after I was done that rest. So there were a few little nudges in the right direction, but very little and only positive comments about, you know, I said, Oh, I'm feeling weeping. And she said, That's a really good sign. And that's all she said, and left it at that. Like, instead of being like, Oh, like, in the hospital, it's just like, Oh, would you be quiet already? Let me get some more anxiety. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Another hysterical woman. Yeah. And what about afterwards? Did they check out the baby? Do they are they hands on at all with delivery or or the postpartum?
Speaker 2
They they checked over the placenta. They encapsulated that. In terms of baby, they pretty well gave it to me. We did a cord burning, which they helped with. And yeah, I think they looked her over a little bit. I would have to confirm that for you. And for me, you know, they kind of let me know what the terror situation was. And interestingly enough, I tore the exact same way I did in the hospital, on the same side and everything. And at home, I didn't get stitches. That was one of my main fears. I was like, I can't have a home birth. I'll probably need stitches again. Do I have to be in the hospital? I didn't know that was an option not to have stitches. And oh my goodness, I felt mismatched for so long. And now I'm fixed because I had the same tear, which was a blessing because it all healed properly this time because I didn't get stitches. I have
Speaker 1
stitches. Second degree tear again and then didn't suture.
Speaker 2
Right. So and which was excellent. None of that itching or any of that, and it healed so much better on its own. And I practiced five days in the bed, five days around the bed, maybe even a little more. And I did I asked her she came over a couple times for, postnatal visits, and I asked her to check my tear, because I was having some pain, which later turned out to be pelvic floor muscle, which I dealt with. But, but my tear was healed beautifully. Like, it you would never know that I did something that's considered extreme now, sadly, like So, yeah. So that's that's basically what they did. They were here to, to make sure that my needs were met and that if I needed anything, I had it and that it was quiet and dark and and a safe space for me. And, that's really it. And I would do it again, honestly, because, I'm very needy and demanding during birth and I don't know if Tim could keep up. It was actually really nice to have the extra hand. Then they did all they did all the cleanup for me. So they brought the tub, they cleaned it up after, they brought me meals after. So it's gonna vary between attendance what it is they do, but they would let you know in a consultation Mhmm. What it is that they offer, and what the price is for that. And I feel like I robbed them, to be honest. They did so much for me. And yes, it was a bit of a financial sacrifice to not birth for free, but what I got and what my baby got in return for the money, it would it would have been so much more costly to be at the hospital in other ways.
Speaker 1
Well, and, again, I mean, the comparison to McDonald's, like, I I don't eat at McDonald's, and I eat organic expensive California food because I actually long term hope to avoid the expensive health risks that eating cheap nasty food, you know, does to your body. I mean, it's really like the best analogy because it's you can have a free crappy birth, you know, at the at the free hospital that, you know, you got to experience or you can pay some money and have this incredible, incredible, empowering experience.
Speaker 2
I think the main outcome from it all, would be that I really learned learned from my first birth that, like I said, I was ashamed, defeated. I was weak. I was broken. I couldn't birth. And that stayed with me and may have stayed with me forever had I not done things differently the second time. Mhmm. And I was able to just kind of rewrite that knowledge. And now I know that it wasn't me, it was the environment. And it wasn't that I was weak. And actually I didn't need drugs. What I needed was a quiet, dark space. Right. Where I was Love and support. Love and support and respect. And when I didn't get that, the drugs helped me to give birth despite it. So, that's why I needed it. I needed the drugs to help me cope with the fact that I wasn't able to produce the hormones I needed to birth in that environment because my body was saying fight or flight, fight or flight, and shunting blood away from the because my body was saying fight or flight, fight or flight, and shunting blood away from the uterus, causing pain. Like, it's a very scientific thing. So I would encourage anyone listening who is having fear about birth, whether it's your first or not, if you're like me, I know different things work for different people, but if you're like me and you're like a really logical person who likes to research and needs to know the answers behind everything, learning the science behind why some women feel pain and others don't really helped me to understand and to be confident in my choice to avoid that environment. And it did make a tremendous difference in my perception of pain, because I didn't, like I say, I would call it pain free the second home birth, intense but pain free. And, what I take away from it, most women will think about birth and they'll immediately think about the physical aspect of it. And I don't really care that my second birth was intense. Birth is gonna be intense usually for most women. I care that I came out of it mentally okay and emotionally okay, which is not something I experienced the first time. Yeah, there are options. Seek them out and figure out what you can do differently because it does not have to be that way. And just because one of your births was traumatic, it doesn't mean that's your lot in life. So that's that's my main point here. But, yeah. That pretty much, I don't know. Did you have any more questions about that part of it?
Speaker 1
No. It was great. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2
Oh, thank you for asking me. It was Yeah. I always love to share the story and make sure that everyone knows that they can do it differently. I'm very grateful for the opportunity to get that message out there anytime that I can.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Yeah. And when we release this episode, we'll put your, birth story on the Free Birth Society, Facebook group So people can read about it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's so much to cover. I feel like I didn't I didn't spend very much time telling that story, but the birth story lays it all out pretty well. So Mhmm. Nice. So then if people wanna go read it, they can Yeah.
Speaker 1
Exactly. I know. There's so much to cover in just an hour. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. It was lovely to hang out with you and hear your story. I wanna hear from you. If you have a question, comment, story to share, or an episode idea, find me on free birth society dot com and send me a message. Also, reviews on iTunes are awesome. It helps spread the podcast to more listeners. Let's build and connect this community. That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
