Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
A quick note everyone. Some of you have asked how you can support the podcast, so I now have two ways. If you're podcast obsessed, then you may have a Patreon account and can find me at patreon dot com slash free birth podcast. That's p a t r e o n dot com slash free birth podcast. Or you can support the podcast directly through my website at free birth society dot com via PayPal. As always, if you'd leave a review on iTunes, it helps the podcast be more visible. Alright. Thank you. We're back this week with part two of the conversation I had with elder midwife, Sister Morningstar.
Speaker 2
I did wanna ask you to touch quickly on
Speaker 3
you had mentioned that you don't necessarily resonate with that term, unassisted. And I actually agree, but I'd love to hear what you mean by that when you say you don't really use that term necessarily with free birthing.
Speaker 2
Well, because I I don't believe it's true. I mean Exactly. It's it's not true. Unassisted is a term that was used for, filling out birth certificates when there wasn't a, a a legal person there. So it's it was called an unassisted birth because there there was not an there was no one helping with that birth. It was a doctor, I should say lawyer or Indian chief, but you know what I mean? There wasn't a recognized you you use the word, regulated, and next we use the words recognized, but a legally recognized person. So it was called an unassisted birth. But now that we are talking in this, you know, bigger, digital world and connected world place to use the word, unassisted birth is is not accurate. If there's any first of all, the baby's assisting the mom. The mom's assisting the baby, period. Even if she's just all by herself under a tree, then there's great spirit. Right. There's the great spirit. There's the ancestors. You know, who knows the host of whatever else? There's billions of years of biology, and that's probably the biggest sister right there. Billions of years of biology that has every intention. If there's any way possible for a live mother and a live baby to come out of the situation, nature has every intention that everybody's gonna make it. And birth is the easiest thing nature takes care of, you know, as far as all of that goes. Mhmm. And then if you have somebody else there, whether it's, you know, the father or a sister, a mother, a a a neighbor down the street, me on the phone a thousand miles away, there's so much assistance going on that it's just so inaccurate. It's an error in thinking and an error in in truth to say that a a mother is unassisted. Now she's kinda we could use the word unassisted if she's got a room full of people who aren't helping. And and almost every one of our hospitals right now, I'm not picking on hospitals and bless you all out there who are helping and, you know, with with sacred hands. But but in general, if if a mother's you know, and she feels it. When it's over, you can hear it in her birth story. Mhmm. But there was nobody there for her. That's unassisted. Yeah. But but this term that we're trying to use to define where where women are birthing with with with consciousness and power. And, you know, look at our Texas right now. I was I've got a candle burning for Texas because think of all those mothers and babies. There's gotta be babies trying to be born.
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
Oh, and there they are trying to get to a hospital or a clinic when they they could just be relaxing Mhmm. Where they're at. And Ruth Ruth Walsh has made a beautiful training called, basic disaster birth support that that is just reclaiming that kind of thing. I teach that, you know, with with Ruth's permission all over the world too on how to just anybody, an eight year old boy I've I've taught twelve year old boy how to help a woman having a baby because we've all lost touch with how to do it.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Which means, like, create some sacred space and privacy. Find some way where she can poop or a warm blanket for her baby.
Speaker 1
Hey listeners. If you're liking what you're hearing, leave me a review on iTunes. It helps this podcast get seen by more potential listeners. Let's get these stories and this important information out there. Now back to the show.
Speaker 3
Every time I see a birth in the car that those pictures go viral, I always feel very sad. And I my first thought is it's really sad that she didn't feel safe to stay at home and have her baby in the most normal way and in the most private setting and how chaotic that must have felt to birth your baby in transit or in the hospital parking lot.
Speaker 2
And yet if we've gotten to the mind of mothers so that they think so that so that they feel like the only place I'll be safe is the hospital
Speaker 3
Exactly.
Speaker 2
Then then they're chaotic relaxing at home. So we we've got a lot of work to do, but we can reclaim this. It it won't take much because the reality is, yeah, that's horrible. That's crazy. No one should be, a woman shouldn't be rushing to get anywhere. Somebody should be rushing to help her if she wants the help. You know, someone else should be rushed everything should be happening where she's at.
Speaker 3
Around her.
Speaker 2
Yes. Around her. If she wants help, then fine. Somebody should be rushing to get there. But she shouldn't have to be rushing anywhere. She should be able to go into her old brain and just do what she does. One time I was teaching it was actually at Uzazi Village with, Sherry Payne's group, teaching basic disaster birth support. And I gave the example of, okay. There you are. You're in a disaster. We go over all kinds of disasters and the things that you know, how do you how do you gather? You know? How do you even make a private space if there's a tornado, if there's a flood, if on and on. But let's say the mother most of these mothers are gonna have planned a birth in a hospital. Mhmm. Now most people aren't planning the birth out of out of home. I mean, out of hospital. And say she's had a couple of caesareans, and she's freaking out, and she's screaming. You've gotta get me to a hospital. You know, you've got to. You don't understand. I'm gonna die. I can't just burst like this. Only you can't get anywhere. You're in a disaster. You know, I I'm preparing people who to help you know, people take CPR to help, you know, somebody if they're having a heart attack. Mhmm. Globalize the global citizen to know how to help a mom, you know, if she's having a baby on an airplane, wherever. Anyway, it was so interesting to hear the responses of, like, the doctors or the, you know, the nurses that work with, neon the the NICU nurses Uh-huh. They all start so they're in a disaster. They know they, can't get anywhere. And I said, so what would you say to her? And they say things like oh, they start spurting out, like, statistics. Well, you know, you're probably gonna be okay. Here are the statistics. I know if we could get to a hospital, we'd do that, but blah blah blah. Of course, that's not reassuring to her. And then the kind of doulas and the the lay midwives and and they start telling her emotional support things like, you know, we're we're here for you. You know, you're not alone. We're gonna be here for you. And then Sherry Payne, who is a a powerful, blackbird keeper, whose, current, reclamation of her own ethnic heritage is Hakima. And she shouts out from the back, there ain't no surgical suite here, honey, so let's get on with having this baby. And that's what does it, like right? Mhmm. Sense of, like, and and we we gotta claim it. We don't have to wait for disaster to reclaim it.
Speaker 3
Certainly. So do you have a a term that you this might be kind of a stupid question, but do you have a term that you like or that you enjoy using or celebrating in in place of this ever growing concept of unassisted? Do you just call that birth? Or is there a specific term that you enjoy that feels more accurate to you than unassisted?
Speaker 2
I never yeah. As you I mean, we've gone over this. I don't ever use unassisted I probably don't like fad terms, so, you know, I don't say free birth. Like, if I was talking to a woman you know, I'm gonna ask her where you're having your baby. She's gonna say where she's having her baby. Anybody gonna be with you? No. There's not gonna be anybody with me. Or, yeah. I think I'm gonna birth in a cave with my dog or whatever. I'm like, oh, okay. That's who's gonna be with you. I don't I don't think I oh, I know what I use. I I use birthing and power. Oh, pretty. Yeah. That's really what I say. Oh, because you you know, until a birth is over, you don't know how you're gonna birth.
Speaker 3
Sure.
Speaker 2
Do you think you can do that?
Speaker 3
Do you think it's even possible under the obstetrical model?
Speaker 2
To birth in power, like, with your obstetrician?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Even in the hospital setting, the is that even potentially applicable?
Speaker 2
Oh, well, I I wouldn't call that birthing and power. I call that birthing in captivity. So when those tell me that plan, then I say, oh, you're bursting in captivity.
Speaker 3
How is that how is that, received?
Speaker 2
Well, you know, usually either with shock, you know, or horror. Usually shock or horror, but it's the truth.
Speaker 3
It's the truth.
Speaker 2
And that's that's when I usually start talking about, you know, zoos and and and how anthropologists, you know, especially, you know, very caring people who care about a mammalian birth of endangered species, which we are. Humans are endangered species. Mhmm. Because once you have diff a certain amount of difficulty conceiving a child, which we're now seeing all over the planet, so so happy for those who who conceive easily, but we're we're seeing that increasing number and percentage. And then once you have a a percentage overlay of women who who are having trouble birthing on their own, females birthing on their own, then that sector of animal is considered an endangered species. Because if a female can't conceive and can't birth on her own, that species is endangered. Mhmm. And I'm
Speaker 3
noticing it.
Speaker 2
So if if the species is endangered, if they start moving their hands off, They're like, holy mother of God. We have got to leave these animals alone because they're if they can't birth and they can't bond and they can't breastfeed, we're in trouble. Yeah. We're in deep we're in deep trouble. So they know to stay back. There's the best I'll send you the link. My my favorite birth, video that I share with people and show people, My youngest daughter who, births at birth to home too, of course. It was the only birth video she watched her whole pregnancy, but it's of a a chimpanzee giving birth and, and actually a Russian, a a Russian zoo. But it's awesome. Awesome. And she resuscitates her own baby, and she's got a midwife, chimpanzee with her. But for people who are birthkeepers, it's awesome to see that the the birth keepers of the of the zoo, they lock themselves outside so that they just can't get in. Like, they can't mess with that birth. Even when the baby's in so much trouble and has to be resuscitated, like, they keep keep out.
Speaker 3
But even that even even that birthing in captivity is more hands off and respectful than birthing in captivity as a human.
Speaker 2
That that's what I'm telling you, Emily. That that's the story that I tell them. So you can see that humans are increasingly birthing, you know, in a in a controlled environment with somebody else managing their birth. They're birthing in captivity, and we are increasingly an endangered species because of it. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that a woman shouldn't birth wherever she wants to birth. And she
Speaker 3
should birth. I just want
Speaker 2
to have a bite. It is my biggest current my biggest current, frustration in addition to all my passions is that we have created a a medical, system that is so exquisite. It it's amazing. So it can take I'll go back to the automobiles, but it can take an automobile accident that's horrid, like bodies chopped apart, you know, terrible in entangled, limbs and bleeding to death, and we can rush them to an emergency room, and they can save a life and, like, put it back together. And they don't again, nobody is, like, taking the person to court in criminal activity or or or treating them horribly or saying we're not gonna help you because you're nothing but a train wreck or or or condemning it. Who sold you that car? We're we're gonna take them to the court and put them in jail. They should never sold you that car. Whatever. Like, everybody just rushes to help and save a life and then they feel great about it. The whole team feels great. We saved this life. And yet, a mother who comes in in trouble, whether it was a home, transport He was irresponsible. Exactly, Emily. Yeah. All of this happens, and these are the same skills. These are the same skilled institutions and staff that can save a life of somebody that's in trouble.
Speaker 3
Much less dramatic with a birth.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So we know we can do it. We just have to have a shift in consciousness. A complete
Speaker 3
So do you do you think that anyone
Speaker 2
births
Speaker 3
in the like, chooses, not from a lack of privilege or options, but someone who chooses to birth in the hospital could be choosing it from any space other than fear?
Speaker 2
Because that's my that's my
Speaker 3
problem with it where it's like, yeah, everyone should choose wherever they feel best and everyone should have a right to make that choice a hundred percent. But if that choice is from the systemic hundred year old, you know, propaganda that birth is inherently dangerous and an emergency waiting to happen that needs to be saved from, are you really making a true intuitive choice?
Speaker 2
Well, I I would say definitely I mean, I'm sure there's fear because people usually use the opposite word that's so popularized right now in our culture. Right? It's safety. So it's gonna be safe. Right?
Speaker 3
But that's from fear.
Speaker 2
But that's conditioning. So I think instinct injury, nature deficit, cultural conditioning, and then a a lack of you know, hardly any of these women have probably been in a village prenatal over and over and over hearing powerful birth stories, dancing around a fire circle and being fed and somebody rubbing their feet. So, you know, when you when you are coming from a a void, an injured instinct and no stories and no love and no excitement. I mean, most women start out, not all, and certainly certainly sometimes with very good reason, but a lot of women start out excited about their birth or just thinking about having a baby. And it's only after being worn down with, well, I'm not sure if there's enough fluid or, you know, on and on. I don't know if it's going right. Oh, it's going a little bit too much. And, you know, just worn down with these unfun, unhappy Transgressions. Yeah. You know, number game things, like your amniotic fluid indexes, whatever. They don't need who learned that? Who learned that? When the mother has a live creature in there that's giving her all this information and feedback and, you know, so it's a it's a lack of joy and and and and I don't just fluff and romantic joy. We've had women drag in here sick as snot, worn out, you know, looking like near death. I mean, they're not in any good shape to have a baby. Of course. And so what do we do? We like I'm I'm like calling out, you know, Elizabeth, run start the bath water. Maya, run down to the creek and get some wild rose petals and, you know, Krista, start cooking. And Sister Joy, bring over some of your best, you know, smoothies. And, you know, everybody let's get a drum circle going on the outside and and let's get silent and put a handmaiden in with her. This woman needs fed and rested and Mhmm. We don't we don't take care of our pregnant mothers. And then, of of course, they're scared. Yeah. If we start taking care of our pregnant mothers, they're gonna go they're gonna choose to birth where they're cared for and not by machines. It's true. It's it's, it's gonna be fun. I mean, it is deepest prayer. Oh, it it's just it is fun. It's hard work. It's the hardest work a woman ever does, And it's a privilege, you know, if you are the father it's not normal for men to be at birth, but if you if you are there, you know, or a sister or a friend or even, you know, animals, dogs and cats, they know it's a privilege to get quiet.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. They go by themselves in the closet.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's wonderful to have animals at birth, but if you are a human and you're in the presence of that, that's a privilege. You're on holy ground. You know, and then there we are. Look what we've done to the midwives. Yeah. We've made them professionals so that they are busy worrying about, you know
Speaker 3
Themselves.
Speaker 2
They're they're worrying about if they've charted right. They're worrying about, you know, if they're gonna get hauled in for missing a protocol or a regulation or go to court or and I know. I've been arrested and been through a while.
Speaker 3
Witch hunt.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Or they're they're they're just worried about a million things. So when I work with midwives, which is different than mothers, you know, I always ask them, what would you do if you were on an island? Because, of course, I take hundreds of emails and calls constantly from women who are like, sister, what would you do? This situation and that's New Zealand or wherever, all over the world. And I say, well, what would you do if you were on an island? I'm not saying we should have to be on an no. Of course, you and I love islands. I mean, an island where you can't get any help. And and we shouldn't have to be that way. I just gave the example of what how how a a modern, healing center hospitals are supposed to be healing centers. Women know how to make how did we let patriarchy create healing centers that go beep beep and have bright lights? Like, women know how to create healing centers. We could have extra people listening to stories. We'd have beautiful smells going on. We'd have more than a half dead plant at the reception table. You know, we'd have a waterfalls inside or why why gardens? I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 3
would make completely different. Pretty much the opposite. Different.
Speaker 2
It's you can do it. And we are doing it. You and I are doing it right now.
Speaker 3
Well, this is a perfect segue into the last thing I did wanna touch on with you around this incredible, powerful letter that you wrote a couple of months ago, that, you know, as I shared with you before, just I think I speak for a lot of people, but I'll speak for myself right now, that when I read that, it was like reading art inside my own heart. You know, it was like reading words that I hadn't been able to articulate and and organize for myself that I had been feeling deep deep in my heart for a long time around where regulated midwifery was going and the the dangers of it and the pain around it that I have as a doula and a birth attendant seen harm women and their babies. And I just I just was so blown away by this letter and and it went kind of viral throughout social media and, I think a lot of people are really curious how things feel for you after this letter and how it affected your life and what the response was, if you're willing to share that. I'm very curious about that, how Norm responded, and are you now intentionally, independent again? And anything that you're comfortable talking to about that, I'd be very curious to know.
Speaker 2
Well, it is a very delicate, you know. I'm I'm not gonna say difficult but delicate subject. And and I would like to first say humbly that writing that letter was just a fluid, easy thing to do because it had been years that I had been pondering, standing in my own creek, you know, tossing sage and lavender into my own fire circle and really discerning what to do, what to do. Because I was seeing more and more harm happening than good coming out of, the professionalizing of the art of something. It's the art of midwifery. And even though there was some legalization that happened and certainly a lot more midwives out there, you know, a lot more training in terms of that, recognized midwives. But like like when Texas went legal, under the registry before it was legalized, there were thousands of midwives, and then it shrank to hundreds. And then we like to talk about how they're increasing. But that's called a decrease. You know, it's not always easy to talk about the decrease when you wanna talk about the increase. And so you've already heard a little bit about what midwifery is defined in my life. Like Mhmm. The way I know midwifery. And it it started to look like a different animal.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And so even though I'm I was so so part at the beginning and so part of, supporting, how how can we reclaim birth. As the the straw that broke the camel's back ended up being neonatal resuscitation. So every year when I would take it, you know, or not every year, every two years, I was more and more troubled by the very first time I took it. I think I wrote about it in the book. It was a horrifying experience and there were, like, thirty of us in the class. And the teacher was was very strict or maybe that's good or bad. Who knows? But she said, you know, I'm not I'm not, invested in any of you all passing this. And only three of us did out of that thirty, and they were nurses and this and that. She just had her way about it. I met three Mexican midwives at that time in Chicago and ended up working in Mexico for fifteen years after that because of meeting those midwives. But anyhow, then it fast forwarded and year after year, it would just become more and more and more disassociated with the mother, connected with her baby. It was all about getting the baby away from the mother and then what you're gonna do to this baby to make this baby breathe. Yep. And I reached a point and it was it was a required, it's one of the required things for, you know, to retain your, certified professional midwifery, certificate. And by the way, I'm number five. Like, of all the certified nurse mid not nurse midwife. All the certified professional midwives, in in our country, we were all, again, the first ones. And we Mhmm. Like, oh, let's make Abby candy number one and whatever. You know? Anyhow, I was number five.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But anyway, so I I reached a point. I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna do this anymore. It's hurting babies. They're cutting cords, separating babies from others. Why are we cutting off oxygen and then trying to give oxygen? And then, of course, there's you know, there are wonderful people out there teaching home birth type resuscitation. That was great. But that's not what neonatal resuscitation teaches, in terms of its program unless you're in a disaster or another country. And then they'll say, oh, well, now then, in that case, handle it differently. Totally. Well, then this last year, they decided you have to study all of it, you know, including the meds and this and that. And I was like, nope. I'm not willing to do it anymore. And in fact, by then, I had already become passionate about newborn, first breast, which I've been going around the world teaching now about the five universal things mothers do that just naturally resuscitate their babies.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Will you share them?
Speaker 2
I can't really share it right right now because it's just it it we don't have enough time. Got it. But I've been teaching in in that way in the islands in November and I I teach I just taught it in Norway and Russia and all over the place. But they're easy and they're recognizable and mothers do them, nobody has to teach a mother how to do them. She just does them. They're they're just oh, I can name the five universal things you watch for. That's what
Speaker 3
I meant.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. That'd be easy to to mention. So when a mother has her baby, if nobody's bothering her, like, if she's undisturbed and that could be in any setting, but she's undisturbed. But to be undisturbed, you have to be have at least three feet halo or I call it a halo. But people have to be back at least three feet. If she's having her baby and you're back at least three feet, she doesn't even know you're there. She's just already in another zone in a world of her own. And the first thing she's gonna do, it may take her a moment, but the first thing she's gonna do is look. She's gonna look at her baby. She's not gonna look around the room unless you're in her space, she might. Mhmm. Or a husband that's trying to kiss her ear, all kinds of weird stuff. But, anyway, if there's nobody bothering her, she's gonna look. The next thing she's gonna do is touch. She's a first time mother. That might take a moment. Like, if you've watched birthing in a squatting position. Mhmm. And those are beauties of of a mother just looking and touching. And then and then in between there, she's gonna start to vocalize. She's gonna say something. She's usually not, doesn't necessarily make any sense, but she's gonna make sounds, you know, vocalize to her baby. And and then she's gonna pick her baby up. She doesn't pick it up by feet or, you know, what she picks her baby up, and she brings it to her heart. She brings it close to her. She put it on her knee. You know, she brings it up to her. And then she's gonna use her mouth and she's gonna mouth her baby. And if there's really if there's just really nobody around, she's gonna get her mouth right where the baby's mouth is. She's gonna kiss her baby all over, lick her baby. You know. And if she wasn't a human female, she'd be, you know, sucking her baby, licking her baby. Humans do that too, but they definitely will kiss her baby. And and they get air in their, you know, that mouth to mouth just starts to happen. Just a natural thing that starts to happen. But all these and she doesn't cut a cord. She leaves the cord alone. Doesn't even occur to her. And all these things are doing all the things that the stimulating and getting oxygen to the baby and warming the baby and on and on and on and on. But she's the the first and the best natural resuscitator of her baby's first breath. Or we could call it not a resuscitator. Well, she's a she's the best resuscitator. But the facilitator. She is the best contributor is better work to the baby's first breath and then second breath and third breath. Because the first breath isn't any good. It's not gonna take a second one. Yeah. The third one and fourth one. And the mother is the best one for that. This whole skin to skin is a pitiful pitiful, pathetically pitiful,
Speaker 3
Impersonation of all of this.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. For the delayed cord, the clamping. Is it pitiful? Pathetically pitiful. Like, just leave some alone. Leave some alone and watch what she does. Now sometimes a mother's dead, then she can't do it or nonresponsive or whatever. That's a whole another that's like people saying if you don't know how to do every possible interview, That that's that kinda you know, those people it it's and it's not for, like, a twenty three week baby. We're not talking about
Speaker 3
Sure. With special circumstances.
Speaker 2
We're not talking about that. We're we're talking about birth, that almost everybody's attending and messing with. And they know it. We know we're messing with it. We gotta mess with it because we have to chart it. Mhmm. We gotta chart that we did that or this or that or whatever. So anyway, back to what happened was I had already become passionate about what I had observed. I got to see in India a breech baby born. I knew it was gonna happen. I could just I I knew this was true, but I knew that a cord would, even if it was limp, if the baby took a since the since the placenta is a fetal organ, and it's not the mother's blood pressure that, you know, circulates oxygen and blood to the base, but it's actually the baby pulling that to itself, then that I knew that a baby that was even in trouble that that took its breath would start to re plump up that cord. But, of course, I've never seen it because I've never I've been too busy being a a good professional Yeah. To see what was obvious. But I was in I was in India, and I I got to observe a breach of birth. And it was a little bit challenging because it's a beautiful breach of birth. But I told myself, sister, don't take your eyes off the cord. Don't take your eyes off the cord. Don't take your eyes off the cord. And this baby comes out, eventually comes out, of course. And it's, you know, a little the cord had come out plump and beautiful, but then it went white and limp. And the baby came out and it kinda needed a little bit of help. And I was tell you know, you discipline. I'm a disciplined person. So I've disciplined myself, you know. Don't take your eyes off the cord. I watched this limp like cord and the baby doesn't they they fool with it, whoever was catching it, and then they hand it to the mom. And so when they hand it to the mom that it takes this, you know, big old breath, and it takes a breath. She's talking to it, doing what she does with it, takes another breath, and this cord just starts plumping back up. Wow. And, of course, they hadn't cut the cord that you mean, of course, we we were that kind of people. And and the placenta was still inside the mom anyway, but it had already down. But but this so this baby and this mom do you see what I'm trying to say, Emily? Like, this resuscitation came from also from the first mother, we call it, the placenta, as well as the baby's lungs, as well as the mom. And so back to the, letter, I had already started moving. I was like, I can't it's I can't, be a part of this movement, this direction, the direction of this movement. I can't do it. And so and I also felt like, well, it was time for me to recertify. And I thought, well, I can't just I I know these people. They're my dear friends and they're my colleagues, and I respect them. And I love them. And they're passionate about who they are and what they're doing to help, you know, save birth and and you know, like and so I can't just I don't know. Just not sending not sending anything or That's fine. Think I'm dead or who knows what. It's like I owed it to myself.
Speaker 3
And you helped to build this. I mean
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean
Speaker 3
a big you are number five.
Speaker 2
I'm number five, but Yeah. Yeah. It's an awesome awesome history. It's filled with hundreds of hundreds amazing, powerful midwives and and women, powerful women. Oh, the stories of around all of that formation are incredible. Like I said, Ruth Walsh, who was the president of NARM and single handedly handled the, registration exam before, before NARM even went to a certification, process. But anyway, I I So how was the response? So I owed it to myself to put my my my truth down on paper. Well, what I have to say about that more than anything is, of course, I sent it to them. And I'm off the grid, you know, so I don't really and and I don't do any kind of, social or professional media at all. But my my good friend, Hermine, she's I I sent it to, you know, the NARM board, of course. And I also sent it to my own circle of of support. Mhmm. Her name was one of them. And a a few few other of my own own close circles of support to hold hold sacred space for me. Not so much about even the Narmore gimmick. I hadn't even thought of that part, but just me, you know, stepping outside of that circle
Speaker 3
was big. It's a big deal.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's a it's a big choice. I knew it was coming. I knew I had to do it. For years, it was coming. But but still, it's like, okay. Well, now's the time, and I'm doing it. Uh-huh. And then Hermine was just, like, so emotionally moved by her own. You know, she she's just so powerful in her own right in what she's doing. She's like, sister, may I have your permission, please, to print this? There there are others who need to hear this. Yep. That's right. My permission. She did what she did. I I just Here we are. Now I I was just quietly that was back in you know, when it happened. I was just quiet quietly in my garden, but she starts calling me and writing me. She's like, sister, take my phone call. Please pick up. I said, Hermene, what's wrong? And she's like, you're not gonna believe this. So she tells me, you know, this I send it out there, but it's going out there and going out there. Like, I sent it one place, and now people's picked that up, and they're sending it circles and it's just going out there, all these places. And I've got may I have your permission to send you some of these incredible responses and letters? So I said, well, sure. You know, not too many because I can't read everything, but but good. Good if it's helping any she said it's helping thousands of, you know, in here. So she sent me a few of these letters and I was like, wow. Think better than I did, I felt like. Like, awesome. And they were all over the from all over the world. You know, these people who are struggling with similar feelings and thoughts and Uh-huh. You know, professionalized in their own countries and their own ways and, of course, here in the United States. And I was like, great. That's marvelous. And she's next day, she calls. She's like, well, they're not all good. Some of them are Mhmm. Not great letters. May I send you at least one of those that are, you know, these people that are really upset and troubled? And I said, well, you know, I I doubt it because it's I'm not here to solve people's problems.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 2
It's I mean, they And
Speaker 3
you didn't write it for anybody else.
Speaker 2
I mean, you didn't write it for
Speaker 3
you and for them to have a issue with it is kind of just irrelevant, quite frankly.
Speaker 2
They've gotta figure out their own journey. This might then then the Narm board, they they got a hold of me, personally, you know, like, not not just not just writing back as a board. They had, you know, designated one of them to, write me. And she wrote me, you know, with some questions. But I could tell that it was you know I mean, I'm not saying that she didn't have personal questions because they you know, it's it's a it's a big it it's our only counter to the CNN movement as far as professionalism goes, right, in this country. So it's it's it's got a lot of weight weight to it as it should for that for for that arena. But I didn't really feel like I could answer her questions very much because I felt like, well, I know you're saying they're personal questions, but they're not. You know? They're gonna go out then to, you know, the so just I just felt like good luck to everybody. Mhmm. Everybody's gotta, you know, figure all this out for themselves.
Speaker 3
And do you feel that peace in your heart with it all?
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. My goodness. I'm sure I didn't like I said, I don't do social and professional media, so I'm sure there's a whole lot out there that went on. And periodically or in the next few days or the next few weeks people would call and say, oh my gosh, sister people are so upset and they're saying these horrible things about you. And I said, oh, that's not even possible. They don't even know me.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I didn't see any of that. I saw just total connection and gratitude and
Speaker 2
deep deep deeply touched. Well, then the next waste that happens so then after the a few weeks or whatever, then I start getting personally I guess, Hermine told them they they could write me personally. Beautiful. Like, by the hundreds, these beautiful because of oh my gosh. You've, you know, helped so much and helped clarify this. And then sometimes not, like, I I feel I don't know what to do. You know, I'm trying to raise my family. It's my only bread you know, I'm the breadwinner of the family, and I feel so divided. Do you have any words of advice for those of us who are trapped in between, you know, that can't just dump ship? And and yet we we feel so horrible about, you know, what what's going on. You know? And so I of course, I wrote them back with, you know, words of of comfort and and, inspiration because we all need that just like a mom who's birthing. Midwives need so much support, especially if they're if they're birth they're birthing in captivity too.
Speaker 3
Right. I mean, I don't know if this way of midwifery is for the person who has to, you know, make a certain amount of money and and whatever whatever people like that are referring to. I think that's hard to to need it to look a certain way when the flow of the midwifery you're talking about is so community based. And so
Speaker 2
Well, but, Emily, I think we can do it. As long as we keep, keep it alive, then it helps, you know, all the other places. As long as we aren't shy about our stories, it it helps all the other places. So for example, there's a midwife in India and she has a backup physician. So when they have to have a cesarean here's an example. She wanted her to do, like, delay cord clamping. Right? And she wouldn't really go for it very much. Maybe we'll this is with a cesarean. And so what she did, she used her culture. I I met her in Germany. We did a conference in Germany, and that's where I met her. She went back from Germany after hearing my stories and and also some teaching. There's also, of course, teaching that can happen. But and but they sing the dietary. I I love the dietary too because I'm a yogi. But, but so she says to her backup obstetrician, well, which one of us wake up in the morning? That's the advantage of a monoculture. We don't have that. We have a diversified culture here in America, but but there they have a monoculture. She says, what? Which one of us wakes up in the morning and doesn't chant the guy atry before we walk out the door? And this baby, it's their morning. Like, it's their first morning. So how would it be if we chanted the guy atrium before we cut the cord? If the baby's alright and all, and so the the the obstetrician is like, well, now that that's true. She's like, well, and which one of us pants the Guidry only once? Like, we should at least pant it three times before we cord. And she they stopped trying to doing it.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
We we can we so and I help, you know, l and d nurses all the time figure out, sister, what we've gotta have a placenta in twenty minutes. Like, it's required. What can we do? And I said, we can do something. We can can you turn off the lights? Can you make sure nobody's talking? Yeah. No. Assuming the baby's, you know, fine and all that. And so there's so many we can do this, Emily. We can reclaim. We can reclaim it. And then especially for people like you or may maybe a lot of your circle, the more that women do just birth under a tree if that's where they wanna birth or in a cave or in their own bedroom or wherever. Whatever their ideal is. It should be their ideal. Wherever they feel, like, they because get ready, they're gonna feel bliss. Now I'm not saying they're not gonna work harder than moving a piano all by themselves, but because they're gonna work harder than they ever worked in their life. Mhmm. But that's okay. They have their old brain. It's not the same as you and I talking about it. They're gonna be in their old brain. So if we know how to poop, if we, you know, that's if we know how to make gloves, if we know how to poop, if we know how to do any of the things that are biological, then it's gonna be that big biological work. And it's, you know, your hair's wet and you're wet all over and yeah. And and you're in your old brain. You can't talk. Language is part of the new brain. You're not talking about it. You're breathing like a wild animal. And then that slippery baby just slips right out. That's that's one the most important thing I like to hear when people start envisioning their ideal. Mhmm. Mhmm. And does the baby slip out? I just helped a mom who had horrible, tear, you know, vaginal tear. By helping her, what I mean is, I asked her what's your ideal birth? Of course, she wanted the birth without tearing.
Speaker 3
Of course.
Speaker 2
I'm like, can you just visualize your baby just slipping out? Just gonna slip right out. She's like, sister, my baby slipped out. Aw. Right.
Speaker 3
That's beautiful. Yeah. It's so important to spend some time in that creative, connective, intuitive dream space where you can allow yourself to get past the the the need to protect and the need to, prepare and prevent and just get into this space of what does your dream look like and can you
Speaker 2
connect to that? To do that, Emily, is with your butt in the creek or your bare feet on the ground or laying underneath of the stars at night, like nature. Choose nature. Be in nature. And then let let your mind go way back of, like, wonder how my great great great grandmother birthed. You know, just it doesn't have to be your ideal birth yet. First, you gotta get in touch with how does birth birth. Yeah. You gotta figure out how birth births, and then you can start to go, oh, and well, why how do I wanna birth? Because I'm not my great great great grandmother. I'm magic today. Mhmm. I'm a billion year old cell person today. I can have a candle if I want to, or I could be what? Who do I wanna who do I want? How do I want it to be? But you gotta be in nature to get in touch with all that. Mhmm. And other women, we need a sisterhood. Not in that moment to get in touch with, but, I mean, to tell to tell somebody. To hold it. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. To hold it. To to then come tell the story to. To Gosh. Come clean up at. It deserves
Speaker 3
so much reverence, and it's so Absolutely. Healing and and beautiful and touching to hear you speak and and hear you speak from such a space of reverence because it's, I think it's something that a lot of women feel. Like how you said in the beginning of so many women's birth journeys, they feel that excitement. They feel that they are, you know, whatever terms they use, they are about to go through a big sale, and it is a big deal. And someone goes away.
Speaker 2
Even more excitement after it's over. Exactly. They just heard that excitement and just grow and grow, and then they get to tell the details. They need a sisterhood to to to say, and there was this moment and that moment. And I said, don't touch me and whatever. You know? Or they or I laughed through it or I whatever. Or right then, I slipped on a blueberry smoothie and I birthed with blueberry hair or whatever. Whatever the details are, you've got a sisterhood to, you know, to share. Love it. Yeah. It's beautiful.
Speaker 3
Well, I just honestly talk to you forever and I so appreciate this extended amount of time. And your your light and presence in the world is is so valuable and important, and it's just so special to share this time with you. And I look forward to sharing your work and and your voice and your book with everyone in my in my sphere.
Speaker 2
Well, Emily, I feel the same now about you. It's been such an honor and pleasure to get to know you and, simple and sacred back to you, and may you birth wild Mhmm. Soliciting.
Speaker 3
I I got I got all teary listening to you sing that song. Just how it's just so simple. You know? It's like so much of this is all about unlearning and just getting back to the simplicity of it and just what a sweet, sweet, simple little song to sing to these little souls coming on these journeys.
Speaker 2
Well, so blessed be, blessed do, sweet dreams to you.
Speaker 3
Thank you so much. That's it.
Speaker 2
K. Good night. Take care.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
