Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Exciting news listeners. The Free Birth Society apparel store has opened. Head on over to free birth society dot com and check out the adorable onesies and toddler shirts, adult tank tops, hoodies, and more, all celebrating messages of free birth. Again, that's w w w dot free birth society dot com. Who knows what an FBA five c is? That's a free birth after five c sections. This episode goes out to all the moms with previous c sections being told that subsequent c sections is the only way. Carrie from Southern California tells us her story of needing to find a better way with her sixth baby. And with no one in the medical models willing to support her, she stayed at home with her husband and birthed her baby in her bathtub. Bathtub. She is freshly postpartum at the time of this recording, basking in the ease of recovery and the newfound joy of breastfeeding after her first vaginal birth. Okay. So, let's start at the beginning with your first birth. So, just tell me a little bit about the background of the of the births and and, you know, why they were c sections, and was the subsequent c sections just because the first one was or, you know, just to give me a little bit of background of your birthing, or your prenatal, you know, history before we get to the the sixth, the baby.
Speaker 2
Okay. So I think this is kind of where I've had the problem starting writing my story because I think my story actually starts from my birth because it was such a my fam I'm not particularly religious, but my mom and my, grandmother were very religious, but they were Christian Science, which is a type of Christianity that doesn't believe in the medical side of life. They believe if you're sick, you go to a Christian Science practitioner. You know, you don't you don't seek medical attention for anything. So, obviously, I was a home birth. My mom was forty one when she had me. So, I have a lot of pictures. I don't have a lot my mom passed away when I was eighteen months old. So I think I don't have a lot of pictures of her other than when I was very, very first born and when she was in labor with me. So I think through birth, I actually connected to her. I don't know how to kind of put that all together, but my family never really spoke of her and they never really like connected she was never really present in my life I have older siblings then I have a sister who's twenty one years older than I am
Speaker 1
oh wow
Speaker 2
and then yeah so big gap And then, three brothers in the middle, but the next oldest sibling was eight years older than I was. He just recently passed away, that's why I used past tense. But she just was never really present. So I never had a strong female other than through birth. So I always really looked forward to birthing my first child. Like, feeling like that would be another way for us to kinda connect.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
But then I got pregnant. And then, so my boyfriend and I had met in high school, and this is three years later. We met here in Northern California, and then when he graduated, we moved to Florida. So whatever little support I actually had from family, it's just a crazy, you know, childhood story kind of thing, I left here, so when we got to Florida and I became pregnant, I didn't have any any support. His family hated me. Like, it was it was it was kind of another kind of conundrum, because they really didn't like me, but there was his father's brother, so his uncle, who is kind of a beloved member of their family, had colon cancer and he passed away the week we found out we were pregnant with our first daughter. Woah. Yeah, it was, I mean, there's just so many things that kind of connect with like that. So, they didn't particularly care for me, but they were very excited that there was a baby coming. But I wasn't a part of that equation as far as caring for me or And I didn't, I didn't have any self confidence really at that time. I was, you know, kind of trying to figure, you know, you're you're early twenties. You're trying to figure life out that's hard enough on its own. And then I had all these other factors come into it. So it just I was lost from the beginning. I really when I look back at it, I almost had I was a sitting duck. I was a beautiful wrap package for a nice surgical doctor when I walked into that office. You know? So to the actual birth, the pregnancy, I have, hyperemesis gravidemia. I don't know how to say the last one. It's HG for short, but that's, like, severe pregnancy sickness. The first pregnancy wasn't the worst. They all got worse, but that's how I found out I was pregnant. Oh, man. This last one, he I ended up in the hospital for a week and a half in the very beginning of his pregnancy because my potassium was so low, like, my organs were about to fail. Woah. It was terrible.
Speaker 1
So And there's no though, there's no way to prevent that right it just happens to some bodies?
Speaker 2
The more that I'm researching the natural side of things there's ways I don't know if prevention we had we've also had six losses So the loss right before we had him, I was doing, milk thistle before I got pregnant, a supplement of milk thistle, and I had zero hg symptoms at all. Now of course I lost the pregnancy so it's kind of hard to you know say what was what. Yeah. Maybe milk thistle I don't know but there are things that some women have really found some some good relief with you know it's a crapshoot every pregnancy and you might you might not. Totally.
Speaker 1
So you've had you've had hg with all six of your live birth babies.
Speaker 2
Yeah good times. Number four was the entire pregnancy
Speaker 1
the rest of
Speaker 2
all of these oh yeah She Oh, man. I've
Speaker 1
been waiting for a sex
Speaker 2
connection date.
Speaker 1
Yeah, right? With other
Speaker 2
Cut me open.
Speaker 1
Kids to to tend to. That's hard for
Speaker 2
Thank gosh the older ones are girl and not that, you know, male children aren't as attentive, but I have little mother hens, you know, subsequent mother hens, so I've had more help the more babies I've had, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. Okay, so we're in Florida. You're pregnant. You start Family
Speaker 2
hates me.
Speaker 1
Family hates you. Not a great not a great setup. And you're young. You're in your early 20s. And so you start having some sickness symptoms, pregnancy symptoms. And you're with the movie.
Speaker 2
-Yeah, and then, you know, I was a waitress, my boyfriend was a waitress. And now I speak of my boyfriend. We're, you know, going on our what is this, twenty seventeen? We got married in two thousand and three. So we're now happily married seventeen years later. Or fourteen years later.
Speaker 1
But he was your boyfriend at the time.
Speaker 2
Yeah, he was boyfriend at the time. We get state insurance. I think that plays a part into it, you know? So I just felt like a wrapped up package. Other than the h g, the the pregnancy was completely normal. I did that that test at eighteen weeks, the blood test where they, you know, try to scare the shit out of you where the baby has down syndrome and all of that stuff. So they told us that she had Down syndrome.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2
I know. And then they wanted us to do the amnio, which the risk of something terrible, catastrophic happening from the amnio, that percentage of risk was higher than the percentage of risk of her having Down syndrome. So we declined all of that and then to come find out the lab had the wrong date. When they switched the dates, she had no chance of having Down Syndrome. You know, it's just stuff like that.
Speaker 1
It's high volume routine care.
Speaker 2
And it's little pieces like that where you start to realize they don't know it all. You know, they don't have all the answers. They're human. They're, you know, they're reading the same textbooks. Yeah. So, you know, when you're in the thick of it, you don't see it. But looking back, there are all these steps that created this pathway to where how we got here, you know?
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. So,
Speaker 2
I go into labor the day before my due date. I actually didn't feel the first, set of contractions. I had an appointment with they called it a midwife then but it was like an OB practice with a midwife there. So, in my idea of midwifery she did not fit that bill but you know she was the lady that I saw at an OB office Totally. Called herself a midwife.
Speaker 1
The CNMs are under the obstetrical model, so they can look mother friendly or look, yeah, more supportive, and then you find out. Another word for them is midwives.
Speaker 2
That is a fantastic word for her because that's exactly what she was. So, she did an, internal exam, asked me if I felt, you know, the contractions. I said no. She said, well, we'll be seeing you later this afternoon. Go home, eat, rest, walk. All that stuff. Exactly as she said went to the hospital probably around noon they said to come back when they were stronger and closer together so I think around four or five I was watching oprah and that's when oprah was on at at four every day so that's how I remember it was like four or five in the afternoon my water broke and they just got crazy intense the contractions I don't even really remember them or any part of the story. This is just kind of the regurgitated version that I've heard from my husband and his family. But I just remember it being very intense. And I I had no control from the beginning. You know, I lost it from the beginning. So it was like a scene from a movie they're running the red lights and I'm half hung over the back seat screaming we get to the hospital and they got me in the wheelchair running me up the stairs and I I vaguely
Speaker 1
so it's so dramatic leaving the home Oh. It's so dramatic.
Speaker 2
It it was like, you know, clowns. One's running this way, one's and I'm just standing there like, hello, hi, me. When, you know, actually in labor, but there like I said, it wasn't even about me. It was about the picture, I think, and about, like, like, I guess what what you see on TV or the story or, you know, how it's supposed to sound when you're done, you know? We got her, and we rushed her to the hospital, and she barely made it in the room. That's how I felt. I felt like I was part of a story that wasn't even really gonna happen.
Speaker 1
So how were you treated upon arrival and getting admitted and
Speaker 2
Well, again, I vaguely, you know, it's it's it's sketchy what I remember. I remember the the, registration nurse for back better of, you know, lack of a better word trying to get me to stop and sign papers and that wasn't gonna happen. Yeah. I had no no ability to do that. Getting upstairs I kind of remember them just kinda rotating me between the shower and the birthing ball and kind of like it it was more like they were trying to get my screaming under control than actually trying to to help me if that makes sense. I remember a lot of like, shh, shh, be quiet, you know, you can't yell like that, you can't Ew. I just, I remember just feeling more and more like a shriveling flower, like I was just physically closing myself down. So then I got the epidural, which was, you know, at that time lovely. And I never intended not to get an epidural, never even crossed my mind not to get an epidural. Got the epidural, everything was great. Fully dilated. I never felt, you know, the urge to push. They just checked me and said, you know, you're ten, time to push. Even when I was pushing, I don't ever really remember feeling the urge to push and they always had to tell me, okay, you're having a contraction, now you have to push. But I remember having, like, bowel movements while I was pushing and then the nurses, like, saying things about it. And I, and again, I can just feel myself straight And I, I never, from the moment I stepped in the hu- I never really thought about it, but from the minute I stepped in the hospital, I never envisioned myself vaginally delivering my child. Wow. Like it never, it never connected. I almost knew it wasn't gonna work. And I don't know that I was ready in my life journey maybe for that. I don't know. I don't know. I
Speaker 1
I know it wasn't gonna work. You're you're pointing to such a significant issue with hospital birth that you were before you arrived at the hospital, you were a wild woman. You were a wild woman in labor. Right? You're screaming. You're moving around. It's all you know, it's wild. Right? And that that is physiological birth. Physiological birth is freaking wild. And that does not fit into the model of what is acceptable on labor and delivery. You need to be contained. You need to not scare the other rooms. You need to be manageable. And so, everything organizes around you numbing out with an epidural so that you can be a good girl. Right. Right? I mean, that's That's
Speaker 2
so what it felt like.
Speaker 1
Well, and what you're saying about the shriveled up flower, gosh, it's just such a perfect description. I've seen that so many times in in attended births. That's exactly what it feels like, is these wild birthing women have no space to be, you know, and to have what their process, which is completely normal, but absolutely unacceptable in this very paternalistic model of birth, which is shut up, lay down, and be a good girl, and do as we say. And so, you know, it's it's you're just you're speaking to such a rooted problem, you know, of of what we're seeing in our culture in the last, whatever, hundred years or so.
Speaker 2
And I totally feel like if there had been that one voice saying, this is normal. You know? Be you're you're don't be scared. It's okay. You know? If somebody would have been that voice for me, I'm a crybaby. Just let me know too. So it's not gonna be the first time.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's okay. Right? And and how little is that to ask for if you could have had some person on your team normalizing it? I mean, that is, like, the bottom of the barrel request.
Speaker 2
You know? And even if along the lines, you know, if somewhere in education, like, there's real education and what child, you know, stop worrying about civics and economics. Let's go back to the basics and let's let's tell people it's okay. You know, it's okay to be so many things, but there's still this area where it's not okay, you know. Well, it's And it needs to be okay.
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's not okay in this patriarchal culture. It's not okay to be a wild, powerful woman, you know?
Speaker 2
No. No, they don't like it. They really don't.
Speaker 1
So you felt very silenced, it sounds like, and
Speaker 2
And embarrassed, you know? Just, I was just, I was done at that point. Now you're talking like one o'clock in the morning. Mhmm. You know, my midwife appointment was probably at nine o'clock in the morning, so, you know - Everyday. Yeah, it's just been hours and hours of feeling, like, just unsure. And I think mentally, I was just excited. So, you know, after three hours of pushing, Justin, my husband, said he could see her head. So, you know, she was there. Oh. You know, he he could see the crowning. He could see when they finally took her out by the c section, her head was so elongated from being she was there, you know, she was there. I we were there, and it just didn't didn't come out.
Speaker 1
I wonder why if she was so low, they didn't do vacuum. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I don't know.
Speaker 1
Or even forceps versus a c section.
Speaker 2
It was never even an option.
Speaker 1
Do you know, like, the technical reason for the surgical birth?
Speaker 2
My pelvis is too small. You know, whatever that Oh. Medical work. Yeah. Exactly. Like, it's so small that she's right there. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
On your back.
Speaker 2
On your back,
Speaker 1
on an epidural, being shamed, nobody telling you you can do it, and then we're gonna say your pelvis is too small. Oh, my God. That is
Speaker 2
We're we're gonna make it the smallest we can make it. Right. We're gonna make it the worst circumstances for if your pelvis is smaller. If it is anything, you know, we're gonna make it odd so stacked against you. There's no And then no shot.
Speaker 1
Blame your body.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
Right. Okay. So you got all the way to the end with her right there, and then you roll in for surgery.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Ugh. Wow. That is a a painful tale.
Speaker 2
It was. It was it was painful to to think, you know, coming out of the surgery to think that we were right there. Mhmm. And I had never heard of VBAC before, but from, you know, recovery on, that had become my mission, as I knew I was gonna have baby two of vaginal birth.
Speaker 1
Okay. So, what was
Speaker 2
Not knowing that it was a thing.
Speaker 1
Cool. So, what was your what was your recovery like and processing of that birth and then lead us into your subsequent births?
Speaker 2
So recovery is terrible as in every c section. You know, it gets easier, the more you have because you learn kind of tips and tricks for dealing with things, but it's just it's excruciating breastfeeding. Now, knowing because I have a reference, the difference in breastfeeding between having a c section and vaginal birth. Definitely the reason why breastfeeding was so difficult for me.
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. You have you have huge hormonal gaps.
Speaker 2
And just the physical healing, you know, it was very painful. And, yeah, it was just terrible. But I hated it. I hated the recovery. That's definitely the worst part for me. I never really had fear going into the surgeries. I never really had, like, anxiety around c sections, but I just the recovery was always
Speaker 1
Brutal. The
Speaker 2
yeah. The thing in the back of my head that was, like, do you really want to do this again? You know?
Speaker 1
So, you spend your whole second pregnancy preparing for a VBAC?
Speaker 2
Yep. Found did my research, found found out first of all that VBAC's a thing, then found, you know, the doctor in town that's the most VBAC friendly that they all say. And, he he seemed very supportive all the way through. And so this is, you know, baby New Jersey, baby number two that we've kept having the nosebleeds for. And it these nosebleeds were, like, wasn't just, like, a bloody nose. It was, like, huge clots. Anyway, it became concerning.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So the weekend before she was born, we went to the fair, and I had another huge one. So I just called him Monday morning to say, you know, is this something that I should be Is it a sign or symptom of anything, basically? And he said, well, why don't you just come in and we'll just check you out? Went in and he said, oh, gosh. You know, this baby is getting so big and huge, and I really think that, you know, given your previous medical history, I really don't feel like she's gonna fit, and I feel like you're you're you're gonna just you're gonna set yourself up to fail, and you're gonna go into surgery. You're gonna go into surgery, under, like Yeah. Emergency Mhmm. Circumstances, and we would rather Classic. Yeah. We would rather you just go down and fill out the paperwork and set yourself up for surgery on Friday, Yeah. That's basically how that appointment works.
Speaker 1
Let's control this environment. It's a lot easier.
Speaker 2
And I'm thirty eight weeks at this point. So, you know, not even close.
Speaker 1
How'd you feel? So that doesn't even sound like that had anything to do with that he knew anything about your nosebleed situation.
Speaker 2
He never even really addressed it. The it was so crazy. Like, it the appointment just became about preregistering at the hospital and getting ready for surgery on Friday.
Speaker 1
They're so freaking sneaky.
Speaker 2
It's like and and I didn't even know how I got there.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
And in that one conversation, that whole nine months of building myself up for this one experience, I was like, all right, we're We're going for C
Speaker 1
section on Friday. It's like it's like days. You leave, and you're like, I
Speaker 2
think I just scheduled surgery. That's exactly how
Speaker 1
it felt. Totally. I've I've had, you know, many birth clients that, you know, they hire me. They're all about having a normal birth. Around their due date, they'll call me and they'll be like, I think I just scheduled a c section.
Speaker 2
I'm like, what? What are you talking about? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I'm glad I'm not the only one. No. I feel like I'm not
Speaker 1
the only one. Not at all. Look. You are in a very vulnerable state at that time and very quite frankly, easily influenced. And that's why it's so important, you know, that we consciously choose who our team is and that we really trust them and know them because, you know, a a woman fading into labor and into that, like, end of labor time is pretty easily influenced, for better or worse. And so if everyone around them is, you know, flooding them with confidence and love, she's really gonna feel that. And if everyone around them her is doubting her and doubting her baby and manipulating her and coercing her, well, she's gonna respond to that. It's extremely hard to stand your ground. First of all, against the medical model, just period. Anybody.
Speaker 2
You know?
Speaker 1
I mean, and then adding the pregnancy, and then you have these nosebleeds, which you feel like maybe there's something because you don't know what they are, but no one's really addressing them. It's so infuriating.
Speaker 2
Well, it gets even better. So, then we leave that appointment and we go home And the minute my husband sticks the key in the lock and turns, like, the lock clicks and my water breaks at the exact same time. Oh, my God. Right? And so what are the odds? So then we're like, oh, we're already set up at the hospital for, you know, to come in. And it was just, it was so convenient and it was like, I didn't have to be scared. I didn't have to worry about if, because really my life circumstances hadn't changed all that much. So I'm still, you know, unsupported, not confident, yada yada yada. So, c section number two. Yeah. And then from there, they were just, you know, I'd I looked a little into it with, number four, but she was the one that I was sick with the whole time. So then I was like, I didn't even have it in me. Mhmm. Number five, I really kinda looked into it. I gave it a good good hee ho in the beginning, and really, I called a bunch of midwives. And I just I felt like I had to prove and fight so hard that it just became not worth it. Like Yeah. It just became so exhausting. I couldn't enjoy the pregnancy. I couldn't enjoy the kids. I couldn't it was just a constant mental battle. It
Speaker 1
it just
Speaker 2
was too much.
Speaker 1
And to have to rally all of this, like, confidence in this potential plan by yourself when nobody around you, you know, is trained to think that it's a good idea. When at the end of the day, this happened to you. You didn't need a c section. This happened to you by the circumstances that you were in, which is unfortunately incredibly common in this country and around the world. So this thing happens to you, and then the only response in the medical community is to continue doing it to you. It's just It's so so messed up. It just like It blows my mind that people aren't angrier about the VBAC ban, you know, across the country.
Speaker 2
And how is that even a I just I don't get how your body and your decisions are just taken away. It it it's mind boggling to me that that there's a conversation even about whether it's an option or not. What do you mean it's an option or not? It's my You know, if I want to go get a red shirt or a pink shirt, I don't have to consult somebody and say, you know, which one really looks better on me. It's my choice.
Speaker 1
But there's not, you know, a couple generations deep of faulty science saying that the red shirt is gonna kill you. You know? It's it's, you know, part of this I'd say one of the fundamental problems is that the doctor in our society has full autonomy. You know, he or she gets the the state sides with the doctor. Right? The doctor is God. What Right. What God says goes. And it is assumed or presumed that the doctor is going to make the safest decision, and the state supports that. The problem is nobody is siding or fighting for the woman to make her own decisions because our culture doesn't trust women. Our culture trusts doctors. Our culture doesn't trust women in any Right. Arena. We don't see that anywhere. Right? So, you know, this whole VBAC thing is one of the biggest, kind of feminist issues out there because you are not supported. I mean, you you as I'm sure we'll get to with your sixth baby, once you've had a couple c sections, you can't find anyone to support
Speaker 2
you. There's, like, three doctors in the entire country that will allow you to allow you to be back after many, you know, c sections in a in a medical, and you're really talking, like, Texas, Florida. You're spread out
Speaker 1
all over. And guaranteed, it's on their terms. They're gonna have very specific things. You know, some that I know in LA require epidurals, you know, whatever. They have, like, their own you know, it's still on their terms. It's not it's not actually with the woman. Yeah. So okay. So you have five c sections. And how do those how does those experiences I mean, by the fifth one, it sounds like VBAC is still kinda whispering in your ear, but, you know, you don't have you don't know what to do about that or how to achieve that. And, so, walk me into what happens with the sixth pregnancy.
Speaker 2
So, free birth is not ever something I heard of until after the fifth c section. Knowing that I could be back after many I had, I had done you know research I had found stories they are as hard as they are to find they are out there, of six women who have had successful vaginal births after many cesarean sections. So, like I said, with the fifth one, I I I put some good effort into it and then just decided to scrap the plan. After I had him, the recovery just felt very, like, if I'm gonna have more kids, I cannot do this again. I cannot recover like this again. I can't not have that instant the way I try to describe it to people and especially now having the comparison. Mhmm. I always loved my babies, and I always felt very mother bear as soon as they were born, but I don't know that I ever really felt, like, in in love with them or, like, like, googly. I felt very more like, like just I had to take care of them and make sure that they were, you know, their needs were met, but I wasn't really like, I just want to be with them, you know? And I think that's that's important in that that connection seems to not or it's harder to make when it's a surgical birth rather than a a vaginal birth.
Speaker 1
A hundred percent. I mean, it's it's it's the hormonal gaps I mentioned earlier. You know, the spike of oxytocin, prolactin, beta endorphins, you know, the spike that you experience with the baby when you have baby immediately on you and with you and you're smelling the baby and you're, you know, exchanging all of those hormones in the first hour, that gets taken away with the c section. You know, yeah, maybe they, like, bring the baby to you and you give it a little kiss, but you're not having you know, sometimes moms aren't even conscious, much less, like, with it. You know, it's it's major, major, major hormonal separation for quite some time. And, you know, I mean, those hormonal gaps, you don't get those back. You know? Right. They all they they either happen. You either have the full hormonal blueprint of physiological birth or you don't.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
And I hope get really, you know, it's hard to talk to women about this sometimes who have had c sections because it's easily interpreted, you know, like, well, I want I the thing that I want to say is that they're missing something, and then they get very defensive. But they are missing something. This is this is proven. This is a known thing you are missing hormonal exchanges with your newborn if you have separation after birth, it's just it's true and it's freaking tragic
Speaker 2
and it's funny because it's I have the perspective of both lenses because now III was defensive and when people would say that I'd be like I'm not missing. You know. I love my child like of course you don't you don't even know you're missing something. I think if you've never had that experience you don't even realize that you're missing something because it's so profound and it's so much bigger than you can put into words that you say, you know, you love your baby. It's just it's a whole different it's an an engulfment of love and of love for yourself. You find this like this new you kind of you know and it's it's a total process that you lose totally in in in birthing through.
Speaker 1
Yeah and birthing you know, it really can make or break a woman. You know, it not necessarily does either. Sometimes, they're somewhere in the middle, but I've seen birth absolutely break a woman. You know, not normal birth, but unexpected surgical birth, or, you know, being violated in their birth, or having their freedom stripped away. I've seen how that affects their confidence, and, and them, you know, not feeling like they can trust their maternal instincts. And, you know, and then I've seen women who have had normal physiological births, and it's cured eating disorders, and it's cured self hatred. And, you know, I've watched how it's like what you just said. I mean, the level of self love that you can access through having this normal hormonal and physiological experience. You know, it's I'm I mean, I'm a broken record. But, of course, the patriarchy wants to hold that down. Of course, it's dangerous to have generations of women walking around feeling powerful. You know? They'll a lot of industries would fall if the average woman was walking around feeling confident and strong in her body and in her space.
Speaker 2
Totally, a hundred percent agree.
Speaker 1
So, you hear about free birth and does something just click? Like, what what happens? So, I actually That's pretty wild.
Speaker 2
It it is to go from not knowing to, you know, experiencing. So then I found some Facebook groups that were, vaginal birth after many c section Facebook groups. And it just kind of naturally led from from being in in that environment where, you know, it's positive thinking in that arena, then you just you naturally connect with people that you just bounce. And then finally I found IndieBirth, and then through that, kind of started just researching the idea of like, oh shit, you mean I could have my own baby in my own house all by myself? Like it'll really just happen like that? Oh, wow. Gosh.
Speaker 1
How how far we've, like, detached from our normal biological reality that that is such a radical and and new concept to to to all of us, you know, not just you. I mean, to everybody, you know, that first time that we think, oh, I could just have my baby at home by myself. Like, you know, I I mean, I remember the exact moment I had that thought too and was like, wow. That is the most normal and obvious idea I have ever heard. But wow. How far how many steps we've gone to to be disassociated from that.
Speaker 2
Perfect word. Perfect word. Yeah. No. It and for me it's even more crazy because like I said in the beginning of all this, that's my connection to my mom, you know like I've always in my I guess maybe in my heart. I always knew that was my route, but my head took me differently or or my my life. I don't know. You know, I'm still really trying to process. It's like a a chapter has ended and started in in all of that all at the same time. And it's Well, there's still very processing.
Speaker 1
Very beautiful about, you know, that that there was a there was a whisper or a scream in every birth that you had bringing you back to vaginal birth. You know, I mean, obviously. Right? Like, that that was something that you never let up on. You never just fully succumb to it, as we're about to get into with your six story. And, you know, maybe that is your mom inside you, and maybe that is that beautiful blueprint that she gave you. You know, that you you have a blueprint for normal, you know, home birth in you, and your life, and and the culture you were in, and the lack of support system, and, you know, blah blah blah blah. All of these things were completely stacked against you. But you have a blueprint that kept coming up and kept pulling you back to having the birthday you finally had.
Speaker 2
I I totally it's it's like the whisper of the souls that you know your children are out there. You know you you know when you're on a path, you know you you feel like when you're not fighting the stream that you're on the right path and it it kind of felt like I had to had to succumb all the way to to find my voice I had to be to be you know broken down all the way to be like all right that's enough you know like to the point of like I don't have to go in and fight you I don't have to go in and stand my ground and really I just I don't have to go in at all right, you know what a what a beautiful freedom. I like it you you can think what you wanna think and you can birth babies the way you wanna birth. I don't have to do it that way. It it was really just a freeing thing. It was beautiful.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, at what point in your pregnancy with this little guy did you align to this
Speaker 2
free birth? So, now it gets crazy. On a whim, we decided to sell our house in Florida last summer. So we had a really sad miscarriage. The baby the pregnancy before him, we miscarried it thirteen weeks. And it was like I had a labor and I had I actually delivered something. So I think that in a weird way was kind of like a, oh yeah your body really can actually you know it unfortunately that pregnancy didn't you know carried the term but it taught me a lesson on all its own that you know even in those early weeks, your body still can labor and deliver. And I was in labor for two days, which I just now connected the dots. When you hear the story, it's almost identical. That miscarriage labor was almost identical to this labor. Oh, very weird.
Speaker 1
Wow, cool.
Speaker 2
Yeah, really cool. So, on a whim, we decided to sell our house in Florida and move across the country to Portland, Oregon. We did that in about a three week time period. Sold our house, packed it all up, sold everything, and packed our minivan and five kids and a dog and hit the road. Got to Portland, decided we didn't like Portland, and then decided, okay, so now what? Our quick plan B was to buy a travel trailer and a truck and to travel the country. Got as far as Southern California, where my husband's family all was. Kind of hung out here for a minute, and then bada bing bada boom found out we were pregnant. Oh, wow. So after the fifth birth I always thought okay if I do this again I'm doing free birth. No doubt it's just gonna happen that way.
Speaker 1
So you had heard about free birth after your fifth before this little guy came?
Speaker 2
Right, in between fifth and sixth I really got involved in the Facebook, groups and that led me to the indie birth group and that led me to the idea of unassisted or free birth and and all of that. So and and as far as research goes, I never really I read some books, you know, the, spiritual midwifery book. Ina Ina Gaskin is that her name? Birth partner maybe call it a doula book here or there, but I never really, threw that much into like I never really wanted to psych myself out too much. I didn't want to make it bigger or harder or more than it needed to be. I wanted to have, you know, some basic ideas of if a happens, do b or if b happens, c is an option or whatever, but I never really wanted to, like, make it such a big deal that it it was bigger than what it was. Mhmm. You know? Alright. So, we sell the house, buy the travel trailer, end up in Southern California, end up pregnant. So, I like to I call myself, like, a soft granola bar. I'm like part crunchy but I'm still kind of basic you know I do starbucks and target but you know I I don't do medicine I eat organic you know so it's kind of somewhere in the middle so somewhere in that thinking was like okay we gotta sell the truck and the travel trailer and get serious now and get a house and figure out what to do before the baby's born. Then the h g, like I said, got really, really bad with it, the worst that it's ever been. So then I kind of fumbled back into the medical world Yeah. Just having to with being sick with him and then, again, kind of just wavering. I just was on this line, like, maybe, maybe not. So then we started looking for doctors, still always toying with the idea, but still kind of, like, maybe because everything was kind of, upheaval Mhmm. And everything was so unsure and shaky that I was like, okay, maybe this isn't the time to do this.
Speaker 1
And where's your Crazy. Your husband falling on all of this?
Speaker 2
He's so he's amazing. He's, like, the most amazing person. He's just he's so connected to instinct and to in in intuition that he was just, like, whatever you wanna do, do. You know? I I know I know you're gonna make the best decision with us in mind, you know, with with the whole team. We we call ourselves a team or a pack. Of course. With the whole pack in in mind, you know? So he never That's awesome. And he's a kind of buck the system kind of person anyway, so he, you know, he's always in the background kind of like do it, do it, you know?
Speaker 1
That's nice.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And that's been an evolution, that wasn't always in the beginning, you know, but as we both grown over the years and and educated ourselves in different areas, yeah, he's definitely always been team stay home. So then I'm I'm back to trying to find a doctor, trying to find adequate care. We ended up in San Diego at a doctor's office. There's a big children's hospital, baby and children's hospital down there. I can't think of the name at the moment. But I thought, well, if I have a c section, that would be a good hospital at least to be in in, you know, these circumstances. And then fat then, you know, I don't do the glucose testing. That's always an issue. I don't do the the triple screen. That's what that blood test is called. That's always an issue. I don't want a vaginal checks. That's always an issue. So I went to, like, three I went to the one appointment in San Diego and just decided the drive was too far. Found an OB out here, went to two appointments, and just felt like I can't do the cattle call anymore. I can't I I just don't have it in me. It's almost laughable. I just go in and they're like, you can't do this, and I just laugh and walk out because I don't I'm not gonna fight. Like I said, I don't have and it doesn't do you any good.
Speaker 1
You are a grown ass woman. Like, this is not about a seven year old that doesn't wanna, whatever, eat their dinner, do their homework. Like, it is so insane that women are treated this way and also allow themselves to be treated this way. I mean, my gosh.
Speaker 2
And I'm and maybe, you know, maybe there just needs to be a mixed bag of us, the ones that go in there, you know, with their pitchforks and their torches and ready to to, you know, skewer every doctor that comes their way. And and maybe there's the other ones of us that need to fight the fight in our own home. You know, I have four daughters.
Speaker 1
I mean, it would be to see it. It would be great if women understood their legal rights and if they still chose to be under the obstetrical model. If they went in perfectly grounded and said, I will expect informed consent. You know, this is what informed consent means. This is my right to refusal. And, you know, I mean, I've I've joked a number of times of of going into labor, you know, and and actually bringing a lawyer with you. You know? And, I mean, I'm not kidding. I actually might put a lawyer on retainer for my free birth because I am not fucking around. Yeah. You know, if something were to happen where we did need medical attendance in any way, shape, or form. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's scary. Like, you're talking about giving birth
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And having to legally protect yourself at the in the same set. Like, it it just makes makes no logical sense, common sense, you know?
Speaker 1
Well, we we really have to face the fact that we are in a culture care for babies. It does not care for women. I mean, women are not free. You know? And and and women don't especially privileged women, especially white women, don't really seem to understand this because we can run our own businesses and we can get in a car and do whatever we want. That does not make us free. I mean Right. Because we obviously can't do whatever we want. You know, we have serious limitations to our reproductive rights. In twenty seventeen, white women voted for the person who's in office who is limiting us right now. I mean, it's just, oh, it's just mind blowing. It's really sad. We really fight against ourselves. You know, we we we really you know and back to what you were saying earlier, I mean, there's no there's no education in this. And also on the obstetrical side, doctors aren't being taught informed consent. They're not being taught that. They're being taught it's your turf. You know? It's your turf. People are coming here for your help. You get to do what you want.
Speaker 2
Well, and they're not even the doctors aren't even being taught true statistical information regarding VBAC and and the risks and all of that. No. It's all what
Speaker 1
they're inconvenience.
Speaker 2
Yeah. They're telling you, like, you're gonna die when you're at
Speaker 1
at the very highest risk.
Speaker 2
You're at two percent. Like, hello?
Speaker 1
Like, those are pretty good odds. Yeah. You have you have a higher chance of getting hit by a car on your way to the hospital.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. It's just it's it's incredible.
Speaker 1
Okay. So okay. So wait. We're we're in the LA area. You Okay. Are pretty over your OB appointments.
Speaker 2
Done.
Speaker 1
And at this point, are you, like, okay, I'm just gonna stay home and see what happens?
Speaker 2
I I think I just was kinda living in this, like, bubble of somehow this magical answer is gonna just come and float down and, you know, land on my lap and and I'll know when I know how I know when I know. Like, I just I really I was really trying to not put any pressure on myself and kind of leave every door and every window cracked at least somewhat so that I've been very, known in my life to to be very left or very right, all or nothing kind of person. And I'm I'm trying to find more gray area and more options and more not committing to to a team or to a to a decision without giving myself all the options, you know?
Speaker 1
So it was a very just see how it goes approach?
Speaker 2
Yep. I was just kind of living every day and taking it as it came.
Speaker 1
So then what happened?
Speaker 2
So then I think it was, like, thirty five or thirty six weeks I got a kidney infection.
Speaker 1
Oh, no.
Speaker 2
Holy Every expletive in the book. Oh, man. I didn't I thought it was labor, is what I thought it was. And then I thought I was dying. Like, really thought I was dying. I could not the pain and now going through labor, the kidney infection was twenty times worse. I would not ever wish that on anybody. So then back to the hospital, you know, and now I'm back admitted, and I'm I'm I'm just feeling like Ugh. A cat just back the bed is so uncomfortable, and the pain is stabbing in my back, and I'm having to take morphine. Oh, no. Pregnant. Yeah. And the bed is so bad. And I'm like, how am I gonna recover from a C section? And the it just kind of that whole experience kind of took the C section off the table for me.
Speaker 1
It was like a little reminder of what it's like to be laid up and on drugs and
Speaker 2
and the one nurse that I ended up connecting with there during that experience is another homeschooling mom that just it yeah, it just it really felt, like, connected. And one of her last visits in, we started talking about delivery and stuff, and come to find out she's a VBAC mom. Oh. So right? So then I'm feeling like, yeah. I'm gonna
Speaker 1
tell you. Sign.
Speaker 2
Like, mhmm. Yeah, you know, I have this idea and then, wow, she shut it down so fast. She was like, you're gonna die. People, you cannot physically do that. You know, your uterus is gonna rip. I was like, you can't. See why I don't talk to people.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, especially, like, know your audience, like not a nurse.
Speaker 2
But she's all VBAC proud and I'm like okay, yeah this is just VBAC in her hospital. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah it was all, it was like your med wife, you know, it was all it was a Bum bum bum. Yeah. And then, so then I'm like, okay, so obviously the medical world hasn't really changed their viewpoints on Viennese, so Well, you're gonna
Speaker 1
find a medical professional who's like, yeah, birth at home. That's totally safe. Like, that is not how they are wired at all, you know?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Clearly. Clearly. So then the option became, now I'm looking at, like, labor and then call an ambulance, you know, when I'm pushing or Oh my god. Labor in the hospital parking lot and go in. And then then I was just like, why am I making this so complicated? Why don't I just have him? Why don't I just let it roll? And so, you know, that became the ultimate decision was just kind of and not that I ever really took, like, the ambulance trip off the table or any of that, but the main plan became to to just go with it and see what happened. So that's what we
Speaker 1
did. So tell me your free birth story.
Speaker 2
Alright. So Saturday morning, I'm I'm forty weeks plus one. Friday was my due date. It's nowhere Saturday morning. It's, like, ten forty five ish, and we're getting ready to leave the house in the morning to run errands. And, you know, it's it's all good, married couples do. We're having a conversation as I'm using the toilet to leave, and I just kinda stopped, and we both we both heard it, and we just kinda locked eyes. Yeah. And it was like, was it? And I was like, I stood up, and it just gushed. And it was like Oh, wow. Yeah. It was. It was just a super surreal moment. Again, kinda like a movie or a kind it was just it was really so special. You know, looking back at it now, it was just really a moment. It kind of like, you know, the gun shooting in the air in the start of the race. It was time to go, although it wasn't. Yeah. As as the story unfolded. So there was some blood in my water, and that kind of, it didn't really concern me, but it just made me think that I should make sure that this is not abnormal. It wasn't blood in the water, but it was like blood stained, tinged water.
Speaker 1
Well, Nat is a really good example of if you don't know that's normal, that's a little freaky. You know? But it's actually completely normal and, you know, it happens to everybody and bloody show is very normal and, you know Right. Blood and mucus come out, but we do not know our basic
Speaker 2
anatomy. Anatomy.
Speaker 1
Oh, it's so crazy. So what did you do? Did you, like, check-in on the IndieBirth group or did you have yeah.
Speaker 2
That's exactly I jumped, you know, I did what we all do nowadays. I jumped on Facebook. Nice. And, yeah, in a way.
Speaker 1
Right, you thought for that group.
Speaker 2
You know, you just, again, through the journey, I found that I had to build my tribe and I had to change the way that I viewed that tribe to look. It didn't have to be a mom and a sister and a, you know, a grandmother standing behind me saying, you know, you can do this. I had to kind of build it differently. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I think that's true for a lot of free birthing women, you know, that I've talked to around the country and in Canada and Australia, where they'll say the only supportive people on their team is our Facebook group. You know, that they don't have anybody else in their life who thinks this is normal and safe and healthy and, you know, yeah, exactly. Reframing what your tribe can look like and kinda taking what we can get, you know, virtually. You know, thank God we have that option right now.
Speaker 2
Really? Because then what what are our resources, if not that? You know? If you don't have a midwife and you don't have these online groups, you're really left to kind of trust the medical world again, I guess. You know? Call and and what are they gonna tell you? Oh, come in. Let us check it out. Yeah. Of course. Tell you.
Speaker 1
Okay. So you go on there and everyone's like, it's normal. I'm sure.
Speaker 2
Yep. Yep. Don't worry about it. Congratulations. Have fun. Mhmm. Enjoy enjoy your birth. Mhmm. So now in my head, I'm like, right on. I'm having a baby by dinner. Like, this is gonna be great. Yeah. No. So so oh man, I don't know how I never, experienced adult diapers before this pregnancy, but hallelujah and how do I get me some more like that was fantastic Strapped on one of those bad boys and went about my day with Oh, with the league game? Yeah. Yeah, leaking all day. Uh-huh. You know, we go and get pizza for the kids and wings stop for later. We can heat the wings up, come home, and I'm just sitting around and I'm just excited, and it is really like nothing. I'm having contractions but they're like every twenty to twenty five minutes and they're not you know. I know they're there, but they're nothing. They're nothing. Basically, you know it felt it felt like nothing was happening, but obviously things were happening. Mhmm. So bedtime comes, and I'm like, alright. I'm gonna go to bed, and I'm gonna be one of those very lucky women that wake up, and there's a head between my legs.
Speaker 1
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2
It's all done, right? This is my I'm like, this is fantastic. Yeah, I woke up in the next morning and nothing. Still having the contractions, still leaking. Yeah, nothing. It's just it's very similar to the day before. So we go run errands, get more, you know, easy food for the, for the kids. Come home. I started to, like, walk up and down our stairs. You know, everyone tells you walk, but, really, I was just kinda tired and moody, and I didn't feel like, it didn't feel like I should be doing anything I didn't want to be doing yeah and it didn't feel like that was gonna help my mindset at all
Speaker 1
isn't that isn't that the lesson of this whole birth though for you
Speaker 2
oh yeah
Speaker 1
even with quit firing the ob and all of that yeah
Speaker 2
I I mean really it just was so the whole thing it happened exactly how it was supposed to happen it's just crazy
Speaker 1
so you're doing stairs but you're like not into it
Speaker 2
yeah I'm like over I went up and down like twice And I'm, like, get me a lemon cupcake, and let's put on the reality TV again. Like, this is not working. So then, I'm, like, as the day's going on, now, you know, I'm over twenty four hours, you know, pushing thirty hours with my water broken. And even in amongst, you know, free birthers and and other communities, even that now, to to some, is, you know, something to to take heed of and and and to, you know, look at. So I think, you know, that little voice kind of flipped on in my head again. It's like, okay, well maybe, ding, there's something you should be looking at, you know?
Speaker 1
Yeah. Were you monitoring your temperature?
Speaker 2
You know, not not with a thermometer, but I knew to to stay hydrated and I knew that the fluid would replenish it. All the things that you know you've read it, they're in there, but still that little voice kinda kinda, you know, it's whispering. But I think more than anything, I was just I was ready to meet my son. I was ready to have this experience. I was ready to just be done with the whole thing. You know, the pregnancy was hard from the beginning. So as the hours kinda ticked on, I became a little more agitated and not friendly, and just the kids, I think, were feeding off that energy, so they started kinda bickering at each other. So I think it was probably, like, seven, eight o'clock. I said, that's it. You guys go to bed. I'm done listening to you guys fight. Started, you know, bickering with my husband, like, that's it. I'm done. I want to go to the hospital. I just want to have the C section. Like, you know, this isn't it's not happening right. And as, like, these things are happening, again now here looking back, I can see the contractions are now. I'm not even noticing it's happening, but the contractions are now becoming closer together.
Speaker 1
I was gonna say you sound you getting all irritable and like scratchy makes me think your labor is picking up.
Speaker 2
That's what it was, and I but I didn't recognize Sure. The song. I'm just, like, I'm turning into super bitch at the time. Uh-huh. Like, get away from me. Get me you know? I'm, like, go away. Now come hug me. Now I want a cupcake, why did you bring me a cupcake? I'm going to the hospital.
Speaker 1
That's me on a normal day.
Speaker 2
Magnify at times ten and that's labor. Oh man. So then I said something smart to him like, you know, because he's telling me you don't wanna go to the hospital. I'm like, no, you don't want me to go to the hospital. This is more your dream than my dream. Oh, God. I'm gonna be telling you, you know? Everything in the world was his fault.
Speaker 1
Totally, for sure.
Speaker 2
So I'm like, I'm going upstairs to take a bath, you know?
Speaker 1
That's nice.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm like, that's it. And I just stomped my way upstairs in the bathtub and the second I got in the bathtub, it was like the show was on. So they just started coming, like, they went from twenty minutes, I'm still downstairs. They're probably five to ten minutes apart and now I'm upstairs and they're like three to five minutes apart in the bathtub and now I'm just pissed at the world like this hurts. I don't wanna do this anymore. I'm going from the bathtub to the toilet and everything. I'm just riding on instinct. I'm not like really thinking. I'm just I mean I literally would be like I wanna get in the tub. I would step in the tub and then I would just step back out and go hands and knees in the bed and still not even putting together like this is real, like, he's coming, like, this is it now, you know? Like, I'm just thinking things are still not working right. I don't know. So, at at some point, probably like nine thirty, Now we're like every two a contractions ending and I'm like taking a breath and the contractions starting again. And I'm cussing and I'm screaming and I'm I'm asking for
Speaker 1
a gun. Wild woman. Oh, yeah. She's rearing her head again. So many years later.
Speaker 2
Give me an ambulance or give me a gun, I don't care. Somebody give me something. You're like, that's it. So then being pissed off and stubborn, now I'm in the bathtub, and I just laid back and I said, you know what? I looked at Justin and I said, I don't even care anymore. I gotta take the biggest crap of my life, and I'm gonna sit right here in this tub, and you're gonna clean it up when I'm done, and then I'm gonna get back in the tub. Like, I was so mad at you.
Speaker 1
You're like, and after I take this big crap, I'm gonna go get my c section.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That that's exactly what I said. Exactly. It's funny. And for some reason, intuitively, he looked. He
Speaker 1
just Nice.
Speaker 2
Like, he just happened to look and he's like, babe, something's he's like, wait. No. I think that's a head. And I just laid back and he's like, and I just felt this need to like push and I pushed and
Speaker 1
You're in the bath.
Speaker 2
I'm in the bath and I'm on my back, not hands and knees, and his head comes out and it, him, me, I don't know. He was just like instinctively, he was like, you need to get into a different position. Inside myself, I knew I needed to get into a different position, so I just kind of, in one breath, flipped. Mhmm. So that I was kind of kneeling, not kneeling, but squatting, but not both legs the same height. So I was like, one leg was higher than the other. That makes sense. I was squatting, but kind of
Speaker 1
Like a lunge, kinda?
Speaker 2
Kind of, but my feet were still side by side. Mhmm. So I was kinda like one leg all the way extended and one leg bent.
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. I can see
Speaker 2
it. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. So then one more push, and he just flew out. Like, flew out. Like, somebody said, time to go. Boom. And he just
Speaker 1
Into the tub, into the water?
Speaker 2
I was kinda was I oh, I was standing over the water. I wasn't in the water at this point. When I did that flip, I was standing over the water. And then I'm trying to pull him straight up to me like, Holy shit, I just did this. I cannot believe I just did this. And Justin's like, Stop, stop. Because he had the cord around his neck and I'm not even hearing him. Then he had to get serious and, like, get in my face. Stop pulling him. Took the cord off, and then it was just I mean, we just sat there in silence, like, looking at each other, looking at him, looking He was covered. That was one thing. He came out in a bath of meconium, like, everywhere. I was covered. He was covered. It was everywhere. But it seemed like it just happened when he was being squeezed, like, it was all fresh. So, we just looked you know, kept an eye out for infection or anything like that, but he was fine. So we never And he
Speaker 1
started up right away and was breathing and
Speaker 2
Yeah. He was breathing. He was quiet. He didn't cry right away, and he didn't pink up as fast as I thought I remembered during the C sections, but nobody was, like, rubbing him or, like, you know, shaking him, telling him, you know, hurry up, so He did There was no cause for concern. You know? The moment is actually hazy, just the feeling is very present. But I remember not, I remember knowing that this was something that could be of concern, looking at him, checking him out, and feeling like there's no concern. And it was just, yeah, it was just so, and for, like, the next two days, all we could say to each other, we would just pass each other and, like, grin at each other, like, oh, shit. We did it. Like, it was all we could say. Oh. I mean, and still even, like, walking past the bathtub, it's just you that's all I can picture there now. It's just Oh. It was crazy, and it was so intense, and it it just really summed up kind of our lives and the Mhmm. The story behind the journey. And it Mhmm. It just it was it was I don't I don't know that there's a word for it, what it was.
Speaker 1
Victorious.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It felt that way.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And healing and badass.
Speaker 2
It did it felt all of those things.
Speaker 1
So how now how many weeks postpartum are you?
Speaker 2
Oh, shit. How old is You know, by baby by baby six, you're like, I don't know. There's somewhere between conception and death. I don't know. Our graduation So, like, ten weeks, maybe eleven weeks.
Speaker 1
Okay. So this wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 2
July sixteenth. Okay. Wow.
Speaker 1
And so how was your recovery? How did it feel to go through a vaginal birth at home and your partner getting to be there and
Speaker 2
My kids, they didn't have to wait hours and they didn't have to follow rules and they didn't have to ask to hold their brother, you know, and Oh. It just, we came, you know, we woke up the big girls first upstairs, and they were just awestruck. We had set up a camp downstairs. The the TV was down here and it just made sense to have the camp down here. So the two little ones were downstairs. I can't believe the bigger ones didn't hear it because I was screaming like a frickin' crazy human. Yeah. And they had no idea they came in. They were just blown away and so happy and it was just they help weigh them. We you know we did we made cord ties and we tied his cord and waited we waited and then we tied it and it was a whole family thing.
Speaker 1
So It was was was he born in the evening?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Eleven thirty seven at night. Okay.
Speaker 1
And then the girls, you woke them up, like, in the middle of the night or something?
Speaker 2
Like, minutes after he was born. Oh. It was they were just yeah. They were right there. He was still naked and yeah.
Speaker 1
How does your body how has your body felt in recovery?
Speaker 2
Like, you don't even know what you're missing. Like, I try tried to say this earlier, you don't even know what you're missing when you have the surgical birth because you don't even know what it's like to not physically be recovering from surgery and trying to bond with your baby and try. Breastfeeding has been I've never been able to breastfeed for longer than a couple weeks because it was, you know, the scar, the incision hurt. Everything just hurt. I think emotionally it hurt. I don't know. Yeah. Just never and now it's like, at this point in all my other babies, I was already long on to bottles and formula, and I would even, you know, I would instantly pump before so that I could get relief and time to sleep and heal. And now it's like, he's never had a bottle. He I don't even wanna even it's so easy, and it's so beautiful, and it's so natural, and I just don't wanna even introduce an interruption to that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. To be home. So, we come downstairs after we've cleaned up and I showered and he's clean. And the two little ones are down here. My four year old, she's such an old soul and just a little little spitfire. She she just hears us coming down and she wakes up and we're like, Blakely, Blakely, guess what? Bex is here. And she looked and she kinda, like, nodded, like, half sleeping and then her eyes opened really big, like, it hit her. And ever since then, she will not leave this guy alone. She's, like, glued to him. And just to see that instant connection and not the first time they see their sibling be through a picture, you know, from the hospital room.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's it's brought our family closer together. It's it's done a lot. For one for one experience, but it's not one experience. It's a culmination of many experiences and,
Speaker 1
Yeah. It can heal a whole family.
Speaker 2
Especially one that's been through. We started out very young, so there's been so many transformative moments and intersections and, you know, so many times we could've gone right when we went left or vice versa. And so many times we could've given up on, you know, and it's just, it's a lot, and it's a lot to be there and to look back and be like, all of that was for this moment for this something you know and and for the moments that are to come but it's it's a total payoff for the work of of relationships.
Speaker 1
So how would you say this has changed you as a woman?
Speaker 2
I would say that I'm still very much processing that. You know, the immediate change is that I definitely feel more powerful. I feel more for feel more able to trust myself and to to just to know, you know, I don't always have to second guess and I don't always I can As crazy as the idea might seem, it's it's totally valid, and, you know, it's worth exploring, and I just feel more confident. I've always been a risk I mean, obviously, we sold our house and moved across the country in, you know, three weeks. And even crazier, that's the second time we've done it. You know, I've I've never been afraid to take risks, but I've I think I've always had this whispering fear of if you fail, like, you're gonna be a failure. You know? Like, I had to make everything work. And I I had to have all the answers, and I had to have a plan, and I I I I'm feeling more able to just trust a process, and trust that that having the answer doesn't always look like having the answer, that knowing that you're in the right direction or feeling like you're in the right energy space or feeling like, you know, all of that is is as good as a definite answer, like c section or free birth or vaginal birth knowing that I'm I'm okay with trusting where I'm at with it in that moment is okay too. I don't know. It's it's a lot still processing, but I definitely I feel more confident in my ability to just to really trust myself and not just kind of be like, well, I'm gonna do it and hope for the best, you know? I I feel like Yeah.
Speaker 1
And it and then, I mean, your your situation is definitely an example of where having a sixth c section and all that that comes with, not just physically, but emotionally, actually, when it sounds like when you tallied everything up in your heart, actually felt more risky, you know, to you and your family and and your emotional well-being than the potential risks of settling in a home and trying another way.
Speaker 2
And I really came to find out that, like, the risks of a vaginal birth are the risks of a vaginal birth, regardless of the, c section or the amount of c sections. There's risks in the c sections. There's risks in the vaginal birth. There's risk. Right. There's risks that need cereal for breakfast.
Speaker 1
Exactly. Exactly. Nothing's safe. There's risk in everything. It's all about assessing the risks, you know, to what is comfortable for you, you know? And and, like, for me, I feel like the risks of how I would be treated in a hospital are much more dangerous for me than the risks of birthing at home an hour away from a hospital. I'm, like, sign me up for that because those risks I am more comfortable with. And that is not the case for a lot of people and that's, of course, completely fine. Wow. What a story, girlfriend.
Speaker 2
Thanks for letting me say it out loud. It's nice to to say it to somebody other than myself and my
Speaker 1
husband. It's nice to hear it. You know? I think there are so so so so so many women who are going to hear this and will resonate with your story and the position, you know, that that that you've been put in. I mean, I have women all this time tell me I had a c section, you know, turns out for nonmedical reasons, and now I can't find anyone to support me to have a vaginal birth, you know, so I'm gonna free birth, and I'm I'm scared, and I don't know. You know? I just don't have any other option. You know? It's not I think a lot of women who are v back free birthing aren't doing it, like, fearless fearlessly. They're doing it because they cannot have another c section. They just know. And so stories like this where you had a very normal and kind of comical, you know, birth birth, you know, at home, you know, and and it's just it's it's it's it's important. It's a simple story, and it's important for people to hear. You know, we we have it in our group a lot. We have a lot of women ask about, you know, who here has had multiple c sections. I'm trying to find one woman to tell me that they did it. You know? It's like, you know what that indie birth group did for you and what our group is doing for other women and, you know, it's it's hard accessing all this confidence and self validation with nobody else around. It's hard. And so, we build these virtual villages and we have things like this podcast and, you know, we we make friends with people on the internet, you know, because we're just looking for somebody just to validate, you know, what we already know to be true when everything else in our life is going against it.
Speaker 2
Totally, totally accurate. And it is it's I made a a connection with one woman in particularly that had a vaginal birth after four c sections and it was, like, she was my Clark Kent, you know, she was my mythical creature. Totally. And it was, like, to have her on, you know, a physical playing field and I could see her and touch her and communicate with her was all the difference in the world. Yep. And she just had her third vaginal birth after the four C sections.
Speaker 1
Well, you're gonna be that superwoman for other women now. It's just so cool. I mean, I hope you shout your story from the rooftops, and and, you know, you're ten weeks postpartum, so you will continue to process this and heal this and, you know, navigate this story for a long, long time. I hope you just continue to share it and continue to bask in the power that you cultivated within yourself with this little guy. That's so beautiful and special. And, I mean, what a way to take your life into your own hands, you know, and declare your own authority over your own experience, and it's just so special.
Speaker 2
Thank you so much. And I think the part that I'm most proud about or that I I I find the most healing is is that I gave this experience to my daughters and that they got to see see it all from the beginning that you don't have to have all the answers and you don't have to be one hundred percent and you don't have to. You just have to keep going anyway, you know, and keep keep trusting yourself, and that's I think, really, that's I gave it back to them. And if they never have to have a C section, and they never have to feel like they don't have a voice or they don't have that power, then I've done what I feel like my mission. You know, I I I'm I'm happy to help anyone along the journey, But, really, my my obligation is to them, and I feel like I fulfilled that obligation by by giving them this experience.
Speaker 1
I mean, yeah. A a mother who is in her power and is demonstrating her own intuition and authority to her daughters. I mean, what a gift. Right? That's just not something that a lot of us were modeled and birth can really change that in a woman and in a family.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 1
What a victory. That's such an awesome story.
Speaker 2
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having groups like this and having, you know, having a village for people to go and find their members because it's it's important. It's important work.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
