Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Today on the show, we're welcoming in twenty eighteen with our first episode of the year. We have Eleanor from the Big Island in Hawaii, sharing her story of free birthing her firstborn. After carrying her baby for forty three long weeks, she was surprised by a precipitous three hour labor and delivery. I was struck by Eleanor's sense of self authority and brutal honesty as she vulnerably shares of the rawness of her birth and postpartum.
Speaker 2
I didn't really know much about pregnancy previously or birth and had never really been interest of mine, but then as soon as I decided that, you know, pregnancy was gonna be in my future or once I got pregnant, I, like, just went crazy consuming all the information I could. I'm I mean, I love to research, and I became really passionate about it. And so when I found your podcast, I just, I loved all the stories. I think it was pretty new then. There were only a few podcasts when I found it, and I listened
Speaker 1
to it. I only started it in May, so Yeah,
Speaker 2
and I was, yeah, I got pregnant last January, so I had, that was about at the beginning then when I found it and then started listening to it every week, it became, like, a ritual.
Speaker 1
You know, I listened
Speaker 2
to it with my boyfriend and how I just I look forward to it every week. Like, I really, really love it.
Speaker 1
Thank you. And and what's so what's so cool to me about undisturbed birth is that the research and the science prove everything that we intuitively know. You know, it's you know, like, it doesn't prove birthing in captivity. What we're doing, which is so primal and so wild and so, simple, you know, anyone who does any research sees that it proves itself, which I just I just think is so cool that we really have science on our side, you know?
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's the part that I'm really excited about too. I mean, it's not just that everything feels better that way, but it just I got really into the education and birth education and just I got to nerd out on all the facts and all the research that's been done because it really does stand behind everything that feels good. And it's just there's just so much to teach people, and it is really it's it's just so exciting to to read all of that out there and to have all the information and just be in a generation where I can access
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Other kinds of information than what's in the mainstream.
Speaker 1
Seriously. Yeah. And and how many women there are around the world getting lit up by this. I mean, that that to me, like, blows my mind. Like, when I don't know if you're in our Facebook group, but I have a Free Birth Society Facebook group and, you know, we have, like, requests to join every day and it's getting pretty big and reading the you know, I, like, ask admission questions and reading the you know, like, what brought you to free birth or why do you wanna be in this group and people say I mean, women every day being, like, I just had a free birth or I'm planning a free birth and I'm always, like, you are? Like, you guys are everywhere. Like, that's crazy. I had no idea there there was so much. But it's it feels like this call that's really getting woken up and and it's always happened. It's not like free birth is new. Obviously, it's actually the original way of birth. It's not new at all and maybe it's just my involvement with it, you know, seems like it's happening. But in my sphere, it just seems like more and more and more and more and more, which sadly, I guess, is balanced by how much trauma is occurring, you know, under the medicalized model that so many women are saying fuck this, you know, and and looking looking for better options. And in a lot of areas of the world, there aren't better options because midwifery is regulated or Well, pretty much because midwifery is regulated or it's illegal and so then free birth, you know, gets to be this option. Anyway
Speaker 2
Absolutely. It is a huge movement though that's changing, and it's brought on by, I think, all that trauma and all the stuff in the system that just doesn't work for people. It's what moves us to do something different. I'm just seeing it really exploding everywhere, and it's just, yeah, all because of our ability to communicate with each other and connect, and that's what it's all about. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Normalize it. That's totally what I did for myself. Like, at the beginning, I just didn't really have a concept. I mean, I don't think anyone was really surprised that I chose to have a free birth. I mean, it's like, if you look at my life situation, like, I've always kinda been rebellious. Like, I grew up in the city and going to public school, but I've always been kinda just an odd duck. And I eventually moved out here to the big island, and I live in this, like, hippie community. You know, everyone out here has home births. There's not really anyone going to the hospital for the most part, and everyone is just doing what they can. Like, you know, it's kind of an impoverished area, but for the most part, everyone has so much spirit and love, and there's so much connection here. Like, we really have what people are craving in a lot of ways, like community and caring for each other and just life is more about simple things, you know? Mhmm. I live actually, me and my partner I met four years ago when I moved here. We bought this little piece of land right on an old active lava flow. So, like, thirty feet below me is this village that used to be here. Woah. And then in the eighties, this huge expanse of lava came down from the crater and totally covered this whole area. And that's what I'm living on now, and the lava is still flowing for me. Like, a couple miles down the road, I just, like, look out my window, and there's, like, active lava flowing down the line. And so so this old subdivision that was here, people just started selling the land.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
That, I mean, they kinda, like, did some surveying and found out where the property used to be, and people are just kinda putting up whatever they can out here. So we've got this off grid situation, and that's kind of our deal is, like, we wanna do it ourselves. You know, we wanna take responsibility. We had bad experiences with the system. I didn't like the education that I had. I wanted to get some real skills. You know, I didn't like what happened to the health of my family. I didn't trust the medical system at all. I wanted to research plants and, you know, do yoga and just take care of myself. I wanna grow food. I wanna meet people and make a family and just, I mean, I wanna be part of this movement to really get back to the Earth and do things more simply that I think a lot of us are realizing is not so unique, you know? It is this whole movement that's exploding and the free birth is a huge part of it. Mhmm. And so once I started and decided I wanted to have a free birth, I mean, that was just like it just resonated with me. I was like, oh, of course, you know, that's what I'm gonna do. I wanna do it myself.
Speaker 1
Well, yeah. I mean, it's the way you live. It's who you are. It doesn't Yeah. It doesn't make Yeah. I mean, who does all of that and then goes in birth at the hospital, you know, and and actually, weirdly, people do, you know, like it always blew my mind in LA. How many yogis or yoginis were birthing at the hospital. And, like, they were, you know, vegetarian and did all this yoga and drove a hybrid car or didn't even have a car and was all about, you know, all this stuff. But then we're just willing to not question this major area, you know, of their life and just go give their authority away. And, you know, I love one of my favorite quotes is a woman births the way she lives, and it just says so much about a person when, well, however they choose to birth, you know, and and and there's no one right way. It's more about there's a right way for each person, you know, and and for people like you and I, it's pretty obvious what that is. And so it's so exciting when that light, like, gets turned on when, you know, I mean, you could probably remember, like, the moment when it occurred to you. I I totally remember it. You know, it was, like, standing in my kitchen and I was just, like, I can do this on my own. And just having that first thought, you know, so profound because that's how I live. That's that's that's everything about who I am, but it it had never occurred to me until it did, around birth. Do you remember Yeah. Do you remember that that moment?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I do. I it was before I conceived, and I've been thinking a lot about, you know, the future of having a baby. I wasn't sure exactly when I wanted to do it. You know, my conception was still a bit of a surprise at the time, but I had been putting so much thought into it already. And then I think I encountered just something online, it was probably, Laura Shapley's pre birth website.
Speaker 1
Shanley. And
Speaker 2
I just saw that and I was like, oh yeah, that's her name. Yeah, I was like, oh, of course. You know, that's something I wanna do. And they're just like, the idea was so exciting to me just to be like a rebel in this way, like this peaceful rebel that just gets to do this thing that feels so radical, you know, that's not hurting anybody, it's just so quiet and simple, but so huge, and it just, like, felt like, just this something that I wanted to be a part of, and it made me excited about being a mother so much more because since my whole concept before was a hospital, you know, I'm a C section baby, that's like everything I've been around. I just didn't really think and envision other things that were happening. I hadn't been around a lot of births and pregnancy. And so once I started to envision it and see that and see it as a part of who I am in that way, it was, like, it was just so exciting, and I was ready to go through that transition and to do the work. And, yeah, then it was pretty soon after that that I conceived, and then I went through pregnancy. And so the whole time I was just researching like crazy, like, the first trimester I was pretty sick and just had really low energy, and so I mostly spent the time reading. Like, I just consumed everything that I could and read. I'm really into other cultures. You know, I love to study anthropology, so, you know, I would read, like, the continuum concept kind of stuff, and I would be like, oh, what you know, what are other ways and other practices that exist? I wanted to find out everything, like, not just about our culture and our practices. And I wanted to hear all the horror stories. I wanted to hear, like, everything, every bit of information. Like, I wasn't one of those people who was like, oh, you know, don't, you know, pollute my mind with other perspectives or bad stories. Like, I just wanted to know everything. I was so curious. I just really felt like whatever was coming to me was coming to me, and as long as someone's not trying to put something on me, I'm totally cool with an interaction. Like, if you wanna share your story and it's really scary and you were afraid, it's a trauma story, if you wanna call it that, it's, like, that's fine, as long as you're not trying to tell me, like, this is gonna happen to you, like, any sort of energy where someone was telling me, Yeah, this is what you need to do, and just trying to control me in some way, like, I was super resistant to that, but I actually didn't encounter much of that in my experience. I was afraid I would, because I saw that everybody had, and I was like, Oh, this is such a radical choice, but my family ended up being really supportive, and my mom loves to research too, so she looked into free birth and, you know, empowered her, and it was all really supportive, like everybody around me pretty much, I was able to tell them that I was planning on not having a midwife or anything and nobody really seemed phased. It's like That's awesome. I know it's not the experience most people have, but, yeah, it was like it was pretty cool. I mean, I've I made this choice of surrounding myself with these kind of people. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1
So tell me a little bit more about your pregnancy at at So you knew prior to conception that free birth called to you, and then you conceived early this year or I guess last year now. And what was the pregnancy like in terms of I'm assuming you didn't see anybody. It was hands off.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I wanted to find out all my options. So I'm, like, that kind of person where I don't wanna limit myself in any way. So I went and met with every person that works in birth around here. Like, there's a midwife that pretty much everyone in my area goes to, and I already knew for some reason that she just wasn't gonna be for me, but I went to go see her. And she was more like, you know, the midwife kind of archetype that you'd hear about and had these certain ways she did things. And just because I was considering free birth, she didn't even wanna speak to me. Wow. So
Speaker 1
Cool. That rules her out.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that was easy. So, I met another midwife who was super lovely. But again, any certified midwife, even if they're an awesome person, like, they have, because they're licensed, right, not certified, that's different than licensed, but a licensed in wife, like, has to go by these certain regulations. And, if she's not going to, you know, she's putting herself at risk. Like, there are certain things you have to do. And, so, even though I didn't really love this Well, I don't really love this.
Speaker 1
It's not even a thing, which is so weird that, you know, midwifery is not midwifery is illegal here. And so the fact that there are regulated midwives here that aren't regulated in Hawaii, they're usually licensed in other states, but they still want to abide by these guidelines. It, like, blows my mind.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. This is crazy. But around here, there's all kinds like, there's lay midwives. There's a bunch of doulas around here. I just got involved in culture. When I was pregnant, I met, like, every pregnant woman around. Like, there's so many babies being born around here. I just wanted to make connections in every way. And I met this woman who just moved here, and she actually was an apprentice with Sister Morningstar
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
For her midwifery. And so she just lives, like, a few minutes down the road from me. And so I connected with her, and she's just incredible. Like, she's just there to support women, and she ended up not getting her license because she didn't wanna put any restrictions on women. She's all about instinctual birth and is just running on donations and is trying to achieve this dream that's her vision of just being there to support women and empower women to have a birth that is however they want it. And it's, like, I really loved everything she stood for, but still, like, even though I kept contact with her and I would go to her, like, village prenatal gatherings, and I was really positive about like, what she was doing, I was still like on my train where I wanted to have a free birth, I was like, I'm just real resistant to any kind of guidance, or outside support even, I just was really into this private thing, like when she was giving me any kind of tips or advice on things or coming over and, like, doing a prenatal visit, which, I did a couple times, I just kinda felt this energy, like, I was really listening to her, and so I just kinda listened to that and kept her on call because she was unlike any other midwife, she was willing to just be on call for the birth and just have it be whatever I wanted, you know? Any other midwife wasn't comfortable. They were like, oh, I either have to know I'm gonna be there for your birth or not. And it was, like, really about money. And Catherine is just like, even though she doesn't have a whole lot, she's, like, not doing it based on money. She really wants to spiritually empower women, and she doesn't want people to feel resistance because they, you know, like, they can't have support. Like, she really doesn't want women to not have support who want it. So Beautiful.
Speaker 1
Well, I would hope anyone who trains under Sister Morningstar would come out with that kind of attitude.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. So, yeah. You know what she's all about, obviously, since you've had the relationship with Sister Morningstar. But, yeah, I went through pregnancy, doing my own thing. Yeah, after my nausea got better, and I went through my second trimester, which went by pretty well. Like, I felt really healthy and active. I got into my third trimester, still, you know, felt pretty good. I was just the whole time kinda chilling out, like I had been pretty extreme athlete before, and so I was just taking my time and doing yoga, and it was pretty frustrating to not be able to be as mobile. But, you know, I think I kept it going pretty good up until the end, like, oh, the end was so hard. I had this idea that I was gonna birth early, like, I was just so sure, you know, I'm always in a hurry. I was like, it's just gonna come out, it's gonna be, like, thirty eight weeks, I totally feel it coming, like, here it is, like, even at thirty eight weeks too, I had my baby drop into my pelvis, Right? Like, she had been, pretty much, with her back against my side and her head down the whole time. And then at thirty eight weeks, she dropped, so then she got into, like, the position that was more ideal with her back against the front of my belly. You know, I could feel her in there, like her heartbeat, and when she had hiccups, like I never had any kind of internal exams or ultrasounds or anything, but I would just listen, like my boyfriend, he would just know with his ear, or we'd use a phytoscope or the stethoscope, and so I was pretty sure of where she was at, and at that point, yeah, once she had dropped down, it was like the pressure was on.
Speaker 1
I bet.
Speaker 2
-It's time for her to come any day. And, you know, everything was just, yeah, so swollen, and I had a lot of hip pain. I couldn't walk around much, but So it was just like, Oh, it's coming, it's coming, you guys, any moment. But I actually ended up I ended up going to forty three weeks. Damn, girl. It was like five weeks after that, so, yeah, I did end up spending a lot of time just in bed, like, horizontal, I just couldn't handle the prep.
Speaker 1
I did. Yeah, so what was that month and some change like at the end?
Speaker 2
It was, I mean, it was just up and down. I was frustrated, I'm always frustrated when I can't move around, like, that's really where I get my happiness, is like these endorphin highs, and I'm on this very, like, Vata energy, like, I just wanna burn it and move around and just get out my feelings that way. So, you know, I did a lot of laying around, and I had felt like I had kind of researched everything at that point. I mean, at that point I was more into parenting, I guess, than just doing more reading about, and that kind of thing. And yeah, I spent a lot of time in pregnancy just talking with my mom and my partner and working through relationship issues. And, yeah, it was just slow. It was still a lot of pressure, but, you know, it went by every day. I, you know, I found something to do. And did it Then but
Speaker 1
Sorry. I was just gonna say
Speaker 2
Yeah. Go
Speaker 1
ahead. Towards the end when you hit forty and then forty one and then forty two, were you ever rocked? Like, were you ever considering another path? Did it did it test you in that way, or were you just, like, all good with it?
Speaker 2
Well, I remember when I was, like, thirty seven weeks or something, I had talked to this woman who had birthed recently. And when she got to forty two weeks, she had her midwife break her water, and I was like, wow. Forty two weeks. Like, I can see why you did that. Like, that would be hard to get to. But once I got to forty two weeks, I just like, there was no way that was I was not gonna interfere. Like, I didn't even want to take any like, I didn't do the evening primrose oil or, like, anything that was even, like, oh, I wanna try to make this somehow faster. Like, I just totally trusted it. I actually came down with a cold or something towards the end, and I had really decreased movement in my womb, and, like, unless even what the doctors say, like, Oh, if you have decreased fetal movement, you know, there's something wrong with your baby. But, like, I just didn't feel like anything was wrong with my baby. I could
Speaker 1
Or she was so
Speaker 2
feel her moving.
Speaker 1
Exactly. And she was so low down there. You know, that's the other piece is that once that head drops, there's there of course, there's decreased movement, you know? Because they have less of their body up in the, you know, top part to move around.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And I just felt like when I was sick, she was just, like, vibing with me. She was I wasn't moving around much. She wasn't moving around much. Like, she was waiting for a better time. And, you know, I still feel like she's really kind of a queen of strategy. Like, she really planned it out pretty perfect. Of course. Yeah. Once I got better, then things started to pick up again, like, and at the very end, I had this huge burst of energy. But by that point, I was just believing I was gonna be pregnant forever. Like, I know it sounds silly, but, like, I really thought this is just never gonna happen. Like, I had just kind of accepted. Like, I had gone past the point where it's gonna be today. I was like, no, it's still just gonna be, like, forever. So at the end, yeah, I felt super good. And the day before I gave birth, I hiked down to the beach, like, climbed down this big cliff, and went swimming in the ocean. Woah. Yeah. It was really amazing. I had been avoiding the water because I was like, oh, I'm not doing any kind of antibiotics like everyone is doing who has some sort of, you know, strep B or whatever it is, like all these different tests people do. I was just being cautious of the bacteria cultures in my vagina just in case, you know, just because I was just doing, being extra cautious because still everyone around me did, practice things that I didn't do, and I just wanted to be careful. But at that point I was like, I really needed to go in the ocean, so I just went for this awesome swim and then did some yard work and then, you know, passed out. And the next morning I woke up and I had a little bit of blood, and I didn't ever get, like, a mucus plug, but I just have a little bit of bleeding. I think I had just kind of been, had been draining out slowly. And then so that was the morning, a Saturday morning. And throughout that day, I had some, I guess, contractions, but, they were different than what had been happening, right, like the Braxton Hicks, you call them, where it's just the abdominal tightening. Like, we've been having that for several weeks. And that was what had kinda slowed down when I was sick, and it had picked up again recently. So just I could see in my stomach where it would just get smaller. And so this day, it was kind of a different feeling. It was more like a menstrual cramp, kind of. Like lower? It wasn't Yeah. I'm having a hard time remembering now, but it was just, yeah, just a different feeling. And I just I just still, I was like, oh, this is probably starting, I'm probably gonna, you know, be going into labor slowly, and it was probably gonna take a really long time because that's how this whole process is going. I had just accepted that things just don't go as fast as I think they're going to, and just take my time. And so, yeah, every few hours I got, like, this sensation. And then, yeah, my boyfriend had left to go have dinner with his family, and that's kinda, like, my alone time that I usually have. And, they started to pick up a little bit, but still, it was like I wasn't thinking anything of it. And then it was like he came home right after I had texted him because I was like, wow. I think that actually this is happening, and I need you to come home. But, like, at that moment I texted him, he basically came home, and it was, like, nine PM at that point. And it was, like, all of a sudden, it went from, Oh, this is gonna be a few days, to, like, this is happening, like, right now. And as soon as my contractions came on, yeah, it was, like, they just didn't stop. I had, like, no breaks in between them. It was totally intense. Yeah, it was I was I didn't know what to do, right? I didn't have really a time to process, like, what is this feeling like, and what's the best way to move this through my body, you know, what's a good posture for me to take, like, I just didn't have any time to work with it, or to catch my breath in between, it just came on so fast. And so I think it was just really overwhelming for both of us. Yeah, we were like, we got down on the floor, and, you know, Nick was trying to help me, like, comfort me and, like, rub my back, but I was just starting to go into this panic. Like, I was just, I had to tear at things, like, I felt like a wild animal. I had all this energy coming through me. It was so painful. And, you know, I wanted to, like, claw at him and hurt him. I wanted to grab things and destroy, like, whatever was in my path. It was so overwhelming.
Speaker 1
You're like, I can't
Speaker 2
communicate much. Yeah, and so, yeah, I had Nick call Katherine, right, the midwife that we had been talking to, and I wanted her to come. Like, so this was the total shift for me, because I had been feeling like, Oh, what I want most of my birth space is this privacy, like, I want this intimate personal experience, I wanna use this time to really connect with my partner and with myself, like, I love doing my spiritual growth work, like, facing my demons alone, you know, that's kinda how I do things, but this really surprised me. I didn't wanna be alone. I really wanted, like, a mom with me.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I just wanted a female, like, I was surprised Nick I mean, Nick is so awesome, but he really tried his hardest to support me. -He's not a woman. -But he's not a woman, right? And so this male presence that had no clue, like, he had never been there for birth, like, he was so overwhelmed. He was so good, too. He, like, held us together so well, he didn't freak out. And so he I had him call Katherine. I was, like, just got some words out out right in between this intensity. I'm on my hands and knees, and he's sitting next to me, and I'm like, you need to call Katherine. And so at first he's like, you know, are you sure? Like, this isn't what you talked about, what you wanted. You know, you can do this. And I just I had no energy to really argue or to say what my points were at all. I was just like, call Katherine. Do it. And so he did, and she came right away. She was there in just, like, half an hour. And so by that point, it's like it's like ten PM. And Catherine comes in, and she didn't really have any clue what was going on, didn't really have much information, but it's obvious that things are, super intense. And so she asked me where things were hurting, and for me, it's the really fronts of my hips, where I felt, the pain. And so she had this, like, tip, basically, that she does. I'd seen before people had this kind of pain where she just pushed in on the sides of the sacrum with their hands. And so that was just, like, a tiny thing. Maybe it sounds like a tiny thing, but it just made all the difference for me. It was just huge. So she was holding my hips during all my contractions until Nick started doing it. And so the whole time then he was just pressing in on my hips, and Catherine kinda took a seat across the room and just watched. And, you know, it was really dark, like, the moon is shining through the window. She's kinda just quiet and observing at that point. You know, not really knowing what's going on, but just really has like, she just made us so much more comfortable, I think, with her presence, like, both of us. I could tell that there was just, like, a little bit of weight lifted, like, all these unknown sensations. Like, it just really felt good to have someone there who had seen it before, you know? So, yeah, we just kept going through that. -Uh, -So
Speaker 1
at that stage,
Speaker 2
-You know, there's a lot of things.
Speaker 1
At that stage, where do you think you were at in labor?
Speaker 2
I think I was at transition because at that point, my water broke, and I started pushing, like, immediately. So my contractions really had picked up at that point at what, like, nine PM, and now it's like ten PM, and my water's breaking, and I'm pushing. Wow.
Speaker 1
So it
Speaker 2
just happened so fast. I really wanted to, like, you know, oil myself and stretch myself out, and just have some time to prepare. Like, I asked Nick to go, you know, to get me some oil to help me out, but he didn't have time, he had to be pressing on my hips the whole time, so that's, like, something where I'm, like, well, looking back on it, I really wanted more support just, like, physically, like, just it was so busy for him to be helping me. He didn't have time to help me in all the ways that I wanted, so, yeah, there was it was just, like, it's so funny because I just thought so much that I wanted space, and it just really ended up that I needed support. So, anyway, but I it did end up just fine, and, you know, it was a good experience for us in so many ways. And so I was pushing at that point, like, I just couldn't help it. Like, I had this vision, you know, I wanted to have this slow birth where I was breathing through my contractions, you know. I loved the vision of, you know, you don't need to push a baby out. You can just breathe the baby out, or you can have an orgasmic birth, and you can get on top of the contractions, and really just feel it out. And that was this whole idea I had for myself, but that was not my experience.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And, it just happened so fast. Like, the pushing, I felt like my body pushed as hard and fast as I could even imagine. I felt like there was this train rolling through me. Like, it was just pushing so fast. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't really believe that I could do it. I mean, everyone says that at some point, but the whole time, probably, there, I didn't believe that I could do what I thought. There's no way I'm dilated, like, this has happened so fast. My body has just not had time to dilate, like, why is my body pushing against this brick wall? Like, it needs to stop and take its time, like, I just need to take a break. Like, I wanted to take a nap, I think is what I kept saying. Like, if I could only take a nap right now, maybe I could wake up a little more energy. But, like, yeah, I just didn't have time. It kept happening so fast. And then
Speaker 1
So when did it, when did it, like, when would you say it started to when you were pushing?
Speaker 2
I'd say, probably about an hour to an hour and a half.
Speaker 1
Damn, girl.
Speaker 2
And then two hours later, the baby was out. -Oh, my
Speaker 1
gosh. That is a train going through you.
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was so, so fast. So when she was coming through me, you know, I eventually it was obvious that the head was coming through me. I could feel every push that I had, that it would push down. I could feel it coming out, and then it would come back in again. You know, like push out and come back in again. So at that point, even though it's really painful, like, I could tell, oh, well, you know, I must be dilated. Like, it's happening. So I at least let go of that fear that something was wrong with my body. Like, I was like, okay, well, I'm birthing this baby. And then her head popped out, like, I was on my hands and knees, and Nick was behind me. You're right. Katherine across the room. And so in one contraction, her head comes out, and so Nick's just, like, back there behind me, sees her head. I'm, you know, I can feel that that's happened, and I'm just now waiting again for my next contraction, and which came on, like, three minutes later. Catherine luckily wrote down all these times for us, and so at twelve thirty three, her head was born, and then at twelve thirty six, her body was born, and Nick, just kind of guided her through my legs to the front of me so I could hold her. And yeah, she was, she was perfect. Wow. It was totally perfect.
Speaker 1
Wow. So did Catherine really do anything other than just kind of hold space for you guys?
Speaker 2
Well yeah then she did the hip guidance, which was key. And then she held the space. She took notes for us. She took a picture of us when I was holding the baby after she was first born, which is super special. And then, yeah, then as soon as I birthed her, I laid back onto Nick, and she came up and got in between my legs and was like, alright, I'm gonna see what's going on with Placenta and how everything is, which was so helpful because I was bleeding a lot. And I didn't mention the entire labor too. I was vomiting. I was retching. And I didn't have any food in my stomach. I hadn't really eaten that day much, but I was just throwing up some liquids. And so, yeah, after I birth the baby, I was still throwing up. And so when I threw up, it's such, like, this intense, you know, like, your gut's retching. So I just had blood shooting out of me. Like, I really did lose a lot of blood. And so I was glad she was there for that because, I mean, that probably would have really scared me.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And I birthed, like, a huge blood clot at first that I thought was the placenta.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But but then it was only, like, ten minutes the placenta came out, and so she put it into a bowl for us, and she used her hands a little bit to help the little bits of membrane, you know, totally come out of me. Mhmm. And then, yeah, we just laid there with the baby for a while, and she just was there watching us. It was like an hour, I think, that we did that. I didn't even check check the gender, I think, for an hour, because, you know, we didn't know. Mhmm. But I was just so tired, and looking at this baby I mean, it wasn't really this bliss, like, oxytocin wave that I expected, because, honestly, I was still in so much pain to my time. This the afterpains were so painful. I was like dizzy. I was just kind of out of it, like, at this point, but, you know, so I didn't really have a lot of emotion, I think. I just didn't really have the energy to experience much heavy emotion.
Speaker 1
Well, and that two hour birth, I mean, that's that's a lot. That's, like, not able to wrap your head around what's even happening. Like, I imagine that hour, you're almost still just trying to, like, accept that you just had a baby.
Speaker 2
You know, it's not like Yeah.
Speaker 1
Like a twelve hour or fourteen hour where you're like, I am in labor. These are the stages. I mean, I I I've heard that from other women especially with their first who have precipitous labors who it it's just it's just so much. It's like you're stunned. It's just so much to wrap your head around when it happens that quickly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was totally stunning and mostly just so painful. I I really couldn't concentrate on much else besides feeling that. And, but anyway, I still was admiring my baby. And, you know, after a few days, the bliss waves came on and, you know, I had all that joy and everything, but it took a little while.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. I mean, you yeah. You still got all the hormones. You know, you probably still had all the same hormonal, what are they called, spikes and everything, but it probably just took a minute to integrate it all.
Speaker 2
Definitely. So Catherine also helped me at this point. We left the baby with Nick and helped me up to my shower because it was a little bit of a walk, it's outside. And so I just showered off, and then I got in bed with Nick and the baby and the placenta, and we then she left and went home. And so at that point it was probably, like, maybe one thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1
Wow.
Speaker 2
And we just laid in bed with the baby. I think that they just fell asleep. Like, as soon as the baby came out, actually, she was, nursing. She was doing, like, the head bob thing right away. And so she went right to the breast, and then she fell asleep, and she slept the rest of the night, and and Nick did too. I couldn't sleep. You know? I was just, like, so shaky. Like, I could barely walk. I was just, like, I had lost a lot of blood. I was all yellow and pale and, yeah, just not so well. And but Nick and the baby slept peacefully, and I just kinda washed the whole thing, and
Speaker 1
Do you feel do you feel like you hemorrhaged?
Speaker 2
Well, you know, it's hard to say. Like, it depends how you define hemorrhage. Like, I know in the hospital, they define, like, a certain amount of cups of blood. But, I'm not sure exactly how much blood I lost, but I guess I would consider hemorrhage to be losing more blood than I'm capable of handling. So I don't think I hemorrhaged because I didn't faint. I didn't lose awareness. Like, I was totally conscious the whole time. Like, even in birth, even though it was so painful, I wasn't going to, like, some outer space like I was maybe envisioning. Like, it wasn't some kind of, like, Ayahuasca trip. Like, I was very much present in my brain this whole time.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So I don't feel like I hemorrhaged. Catherine also said that it was a midwife myth that you hear that redheads bleed a lot when they
Speaker 1
-Oh, of course it is.
Speaker 2
Yeah. -Maybe that's maybe that's my thing, you know, I just and I'm a huge person, like, I'm six one, and I can probably I could probably lose a lot more blood maybe than a average person, so. Totally. And
Speaker 1
so what did you wind up doing with the placenta?
Speaker 2
We left it on for a little while. I wasn't really considering eating it. Like, I I had that idea that that would be available if I wanted it, but I hadn't really made plans for it because I wasn't super attracted to that idea. So we had it just in a couple bags with us in the bed, and then I think we waited several hours, and then we would just caught the cord. Like, we waited until we could squeeze it, and she didn't react.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
I was surprised, actually, that after a few hours, even though it was kinda looked limp, she did react when we squeezed it.
Speaker 1
So That's interesting.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Maybe it was coincidence. I don't know. But we cut it after several hours, and then we put it in the freezer. So
Speaker 1
And then what?
Speaker 2
It's still in the freezer.
Speaker 1
That's funny. Do you have plans for it? Are you gonna bury it? Or
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I didn't wanna just, like, throw it away. I mean, there's not really much place to bury around here because, you know, we live on the rocks. Like, there's not a lot of
Speaker 1
the ocean or lava.
Speaker 2
Deep soil.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So my idea is I'm gonna find place to bury or put in the ocean, like, yeah, I've gotta have something come to me, I guess, that sounds like the best thing to do with it. So I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I heard that when my first birth was on the big island, and I heard there that, an old tradition used to be to give the placenta to the ocean on the next full moon following the birth. I mean, obviously, you're a little bit past that. But, yeah, I always thought that was kinda cool, but, like, I don't know where in the ocean. I guess you'd need to go out on a boat, probably.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You could just, like, throw it off the cliff.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It just, like, washes back up on the shore. And, like, a dog like, a dog eats it.
Speaker 2
Until Orla's old enough. Yeah. And just have her throw it off the cliff.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. That's funny.
Speaker 2
But, yeah, it does feel special, but
Speaker 1
Of course.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And how how was your postpartum? How's it been so far?
Speaker 2
It was kinda rough at first. Like, again, I had great support in my partner. Like, he has just been key for me the whole time, that he's just tried as hard as he can and been so supportive, like, he was there to cook for me, you know, would go to the store and buy me what I needed to get and, I didn't have, like, a official meal train or anything, which a lot of people do around here. I mean, it's a common practice to to wanna support other women going through pregnancy and postpartum. But, yeah, I still looking back on it now, I'm like, I wish I had planned more support for myself because, again, during that time, I just really wanted to be lifted up. Like, I'm just this person that's so used to being like, no, like, I wanna do it myself, like, give me that, like, I wanna cook my own dinner. You know? I want I just love to do things for myself, but in this time, I really wanted to be taken care of. Like, I wanted to be the baby, and I wanted to have everything done for me. Like, I didn't even wanna have to ask. I just wanted somebody waiting on me hand and foot. So that would be, like, my dream for my next birth is to, like, have a postpartum doula, I think, who would just be helping me out. But
Speaker 1
Well, that's the thing. You're doing so much for the baby. I mean, your hands are fairly full, and your heart is fairly full, and your attention is fairly full. So that is, of course, the ideal way to be treated and supported is to have everyone else take care of you so that you can take care of this new little life.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And another thing I hadn't really considered was how much needs my partner is gonna have during this time. Like, I had kinda had this vision, like, oh, I'm the one birthing the baby, and so now you're there to do things for me.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
But, yeah. But he was really tired. Like, the birth really drained him. It was super intense for him to be present and to do what he did. And so he had to sleep a lot. And also, you know, he had needs during that time too, which were you know, it made me realize too how much I really do for him in our relationship, ways that are small, like, subtle things that I do to support him anyway that I couldn't do during this time. So he was suffering from lack of my support because I'm
Speaker 1
in
Speaker 2
this weakened state. So we both really needed extra support during this time. So, yeah, it was hard for us, but, again, we're super blessed. You know, we live we have this space where we don't have to go outside the home to have to work. So we just had all of our time here with our baby and just, yeah, did the best we could. So I was able to, you know, get my blood supply back, you know, eat some food, and eventually feel stronger again. It was just a slow process. Like, even now, I'm still, in a lot of pain in my hips, but, you know, way less, for a while. It took me, like, a week maybe to be able to walk comfortably and maybe close to a month to be able to walk really any kind of distance. But, but, yeah, like, by two weeks, my baby was ready to have stimulation. Like, she probably slept for two weeks, because that's the thing too, I think that it's not just me that's traumatized from this birth, it's my baby. Like, she's had her head so squished. Like, she has just gone through it, too. That was painful, I think, for her. And she had to heal from that, too. So she had a lot of rest. Like, she didn't like to be really touched at the beginning. She really didn't want her head touched. So
Speaker 1
Do you feel Do you feel traumatized from your birth?
Speaker 2
I mean, I feel like I experienced trauma, and then that led me to a new place of love and appreciation. Like, I definitely would say I was traumatized. Like, physically, it was traumatizing. Like, emotionally, yeah, it was traumatizing. Like, me and my partner dealt with a lot of ways that we didn't connect, and, a lot of conflicts came up about it, ways that we didn't feel supported by each other. Same thing with my relationship with my parents, my relationship with life, just having all these things come up about not trusting or not feeling enough, or,
Speaker 1
you know,
Speaker 2
there is resentment there. Like, my body was definitely physically traumatized in ways that I didn't expect. I was thinking like, oh, of course, you know, my vagina is gonna be sore, my hips are gonna be sore, like, they've just expanded and contracted so much, like, my organs are gonna be moving back to where they were. But I didn't expect this kind of all over energetic exhaustion. Like, my nervous system, was spasm y, like, for a long time after I really felt like I had been fried. Like, something had maybe electrocuted me, like, everything was just so drained on every level. Mhmm. So that definitely felt traumatizing.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I remember I I read one time Yeah. That trauma see if I can remember how it is. Trauma is when something is happening that you can't fully process and integrate at the time. And I thought that was such a good, like, way to explain it, because it could be some, you know, and obviously a precipitous labor on top of the kind of spiritual cracking open that happens and, you know, the profound shifts, you know, that would have happened if your labor was ten hours or two hours or twenty hours, you know, just the the shift into birth and delivery and postpartum is quite, you know, when who who does it not crack open? You know, it's freaking crazy. And everyone deals with it, you know, differently. But a lot of women say the exact same thing that you're saying, you know. And and yeah, I like that definition of trauma because it is it makes I think it's very applicable to birth even when birth is normal and healthy, it can still be so intense and overwhelming that you couldn't possibly integrate it at that time and that you know can really bring a lot up.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I love that definition too and I think that's just the process of like the creative process anyway. It's life is there to break us open and where we're broken open, that's where the light comes in. I mean, I feel like it was just having to experience the fear and the pain because
Speaker 1
I
Speaker 2
had told myself that I didn't fear anything. Like, I was so ready to go into this and was so courageous. But I have still this fear that's living inside my body, and it's not necessarily something I can convince myself or educate myself out of. It was something I really had to live. And so to be in this state of fear and in pain and let myself
Speaker 1
feel
Speaker 2
it and move through it, and, you know, eventually it does pass, and that's how it really gets let go. It has to be experienced. So in feeling all of those painful truths and painful experiences, I then had this space come in where I could feel more joy. And, you know, if you're having all the conflicts I had, I was able to appreciate more deeply. And that's what I would say I learned the most from birth is just to have faith in those periods of pain and when it feels hopeless and when everything feels stuck, or it just doesn't feel like you're going on a path towards progress, like you're not going towards the light, like those are the times when you're making the most room for it, like it's really diving down to the depths in order to fly high, like. Absolutely. Yeah, I really have so much appreciation for myself and for my relationships now than I had before I gave birth.
Speaker 1
Beautiful. Yeah, it's really a a journey into the underworld.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Well, thank you so much. Yeah. This is a beautiful story. A lot of, just a lot of power to it and a lot of honesty and rawness. And I love talking to women still fairly freshly postpartum because there's a you can still really feel the story, you know, in a in a different way than when it's a couple years old.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. I can still feel everything and it's like, it does slowly fade away. I remember after birth, I still felt the energy of birth so strong, but as soon as my baby stopped really smelling, like, the birth experience, it was like, oh, it started fading away. And as she gets older, you know, it's all transforming inside of me. And I'm glad I waited this long because it really does take some time, like, to bring in the appreciation and the empowerment, to the story. Like, it does take some time to process. And even though it was painful after, it's like, after this amount of time, it's really started to feel like a more empowering experience. And, yeah, I'm excited to share it and just totally honored to be a part of this project.
Speaker 1
Well, and I like the the honesty around that. It did kinda break you down, you know, and that and that you you're rebuilding. And I think that's so honest to this whole death of the maiden and birth of the mother. And, you know, we have such a glorified kind of superficial image of of motherhood on social media or the way that many, many stories are passed around. And and I think it's just so important to talk about these these breakdowns and the the the hard parts, especially because this was a normal physiological birth. You know, it's a different conversation when we're processing with women who have traumatic birth because they were abused in their births. That's like a whole another twenty layers of a conversation, but just the rawness and realness and insaneness and power of normal birth, that it's not all rainbows and butterflies, and that it is fucking brutal or can be, you know?
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Speaker 1
And that it can like, one of my favorite, things that my friend Yolanda Clark has ever said to me when we were talking about my own birth is she said, well, you know, birth will decimate you. And we just started cracking up. It was like, yeah, pretty much. It'll it'll decimate you. And just to sit in that and and and, you know, how to kinda make friends with that before, during, and after. You know, it's it's it's it's crazy. So I so appreciate your story because it's so it's so honest, and and I love the the, Gosh, there's just there's a lot of poetry in it. It's really a beautiful story.
Speaker 2
Thanks. Yeah I'm really glad to have the experience and to share it, and I'm so excited to see what happens to you.
Speaker 1
-Yeah. -I think we all are. -Yeah. -I know. Me too.
Speaker 2
-Two, in this time period is kind of an interesting one because even though we are we're starting this new old movement, but we have lost so much of the experience we used to have because we don't want these systems anymore that are controlling us and giving us these negative experiences. We're like, oh, we have to do things for ourself, and it's we're rebirthing self responsibility. And in that becomes like, Oh, there's no experience to fall back on. Like, you know, some people are totally blessed like me to have some people around them maybe that are supportive that are experienced, but that's super rare these days. So we're just going at it alone, really. Don't know what we're doing. Like, we're out here on this piece of rock. Like, we have no experience. We're just trying to make a new world. Like, it's just
Speaker 1
And the whole, like, the whole concept of rewilding yourself, you know, is so Yeah. Has been so present for me in all of this because I think I think the women I know who have I would say, like, rewild themselves into birth and any and into other aspects of their life, they actually have quite a bit of stoicism and ambivalence about pregnancy and, you know, that may you know, in life and death and, you know, babies come and go. And it's not like it's, you know, overly, that they know what week they're at, and they're checking their apps, and they're sharing a photo, and it's like this, you know, very individualized experience. It's more just kind of like it's just a part of life, and it it's just comes and goes and anyway I've appreciated their stoicism around their own experiences because I wouldn't say I'm I'm by any means there yet. I'm I still feel like this like tripped out little amateur you know with all of it. Yeah. But but feel very drawn to those concepts and and obviously I'm doing I'm doing it you know I am I have had a totally hands off pregnancy and and I am just being present with it and letting myself feel all the feelings and and have no idea what to expect. But I I guess my my biggest, like, confidence that I fall back on is I'm totally down with it decimating me and I I want it to just I have loved birth so deeply for so long. You know, I've been seeing birth since I was a teenager and I have seen it be so violated and so disrespected and I've seen it so, you know, flourish and heal and it's just so powerful and I've seen how hard the systems try to, you know, beat it out of a woman and it just keeps coming back and it's just such an intense feminine, you know, thing. And so I just feel very, like, reverent of that and just like, just take me. Just do what you want with me. I totally trust you. I love you so much. I've seen you so much, and I've never known you, like, inside of my own body. And so whatever that is supposed to look like, I'm cool with. And that's kind of as far as I can really go with it.
Speaker 2
Yeah, I just I love that perspective. I mean, I too feel like an amateur and I feel like we're in this really special time where we're all amateurs together, like connected over the whole world through the Internet. Like, we're all just experiencing this new thing to us, like, you know? Or it's new to us, so we don't know what we're doing, but we're all doing it together. And that's pretty neat.
Speaker 1
And does anyone ever really know what they're doing?
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's true.
Speaker 1
Well, thank you so much for for your time. And, yeah, we just loved having you on. And it was so nice to connect with you on a on a, like, a night a late night call. It's, like, beautiful.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I totally love this, and give me a holler if you ever come to Big Island.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm sure we will. Alright, sister. He'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2
Alright. Bye, Emily. Bye.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
