Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Hi, everyone. Today, we have a special show. I have my beloved husband, partner, baby daddy, favorite person with me
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1
To do an episode, on my pregnancy experience and how he has also experienced my pregnancy. So we have Johnny Jackson Saldea with us. Welcome, my love. Hello. So very excited. This is gonna be interesting because this is the first time I've done this with someone sitting next to me. So we're sharing a mic.
Speaker 2
Very close.
Speaker 1
Our mouths are very close to each other, so we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2
Nothing new.
Speaker 1
We did just eat some guacamole. Okay. So we or I have been wanting to do an episode this whole pregnancy about my experience and the story of our conscious conception and, kinda what brought us to Maui as we are here now and my birthing time. And, you know, a lot of people have asked and thought it would be fun to review everything, but I have been procrastinating it like crazy. So now that I'm almost forty weeks, I figured if I had Johnny on, it would help make it happen. So here we are.
Speaker 2
Motivator.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Our story of conscious conception, you know, where does it really begin? Because it certainly begins prior to the fertile week that created this baby. So we were thinking that maybe we would just kinda do a review of what brought us into the, quote, unquote, conscious conception time.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, our journey started quite a bit before that fertile week, mostly as an idea. We always knew that we were going to consciously conceive, and we always wanted to plan it, you know, for the perfect window that fit our life most appropriately, like, probably many people do. And as time went by, we kept saying, oh, well, next year will be better. Next year, let's wait till next year. That'll be better. And finally, it was on our honeymoon, I guess, of just about two years ago coming up this May. We were sitting on a beach at night and had a wonderful night together.
Speaker 1
Here in Maui?
Speaker 2
Here in Maui. Yeah. And we just decided that it's time. This is where we wanna be. This is where we ultimately wanna live, which we do now, thankfully. And this is where we you know, at the time, the idea was this is where we wanna go be for the birth. Wanna come a month early, stay a month after, and really settle in and spend a couple months just becoming a family of three instead of just the two of us.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it had been a fantasy of mine long before I had met Johnny, to come here. And my father has lived here since I was in middle school, and so I've spent, you know, decent amount of time here and just always thought as especially as I got into birth work, what a healing, supportive, reverent space it would be to create this kind of time out of whatever normal life I had and come here in my birthing time and do postpartum here and walk the beaches, you know, waiting for my baby. And it's just it's a special place if anyone's ever been here. I mean, it's it's paradise. It's a really a really special, slow paced, gorgeous place. So
Speaker 2
True that.
Speaker 1
It's always been my fantasy, but I thought it you know, I didn't know if that would be a reality. And then cut to our honeymoon. We're talking a lot about it and, you know, how can we give our children the best start possible. And for anyone who doesn't know, we were living in LA before. So I had known even, you know, prior to being with Johnny, though I was living in LA, I I didn't anticipate couldn't really envision ever raising kids there. And I really wanted to give the space of pregnancy and postpartum, the space to be sensitive. That's what came up a lot for me. It was LA is amazing, and I love that city so much. But I found it really hard to allow myself to be sensitive there. I found that I had to be pretty tough and energetically guarded. And, you know, you deal with so much traffic, and there's so many people. And, I was working really hard and
Speaker 2
A lot of energy there.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it's just a lot. And, obviously, my work is in birth, and so I knew that it's such a sensitive time. And just from my work, it seemed crazy to me to not take this super, super seriously and make it just the most special, easy time possible for our family. You know, postpartum is hard enough, and birth is hard enough just in a normal, supportive, loving environment. So what can we take out to make it the least stressful and the easiest as possible? So, yeah, it was you know, it's a great privilege that I can even think that way, and I'm really grateful for it. So with that, we were on our honeymoon. It was this beautiful night, and we just said, you know what? It's time. Our baby's ready. Let's just do it. And we mapped out a plan at two in the morning about how we were gonna get it done. And it was a two year long plan, that took quite a bit of effort and change and moving stuff around, and, then we made it happen.
Speaker 2
And I'm lucky enough to work in an industry where I typically have a couple months off right at the end of the year. So we knew that our golden window was gonna be from, like, December to February. So we it's not, like, a huge amount of time. It's a couple windows, which means we've we've gotta make it happen within a couple months. So what did we have? April and May, those were our
Speaker 1
Conception. Conception months. Yeah.
Speaker 2
So We hit the latter of those two, which turned out to be the perfect window for us.
Speaker 1
So after the honeymoon two years ago, we came back, and Johnny withdrew from school and put the word out to his community to find a job out in somewhere in nature. It was really important to me to get out of LA for the pregnancy, which he was totally down with. And so we've he got a job. We moved into the mountains of Northern California. And I, for the first time in my life since I had left home at sixteen, was able to not work. And, you know, prior to that, I had been attending five to ten births a month. It was pretty crazy. And I was assisting a very busy midwife and running a nonprofit and my own, you know, doula business. And Johnny was in school and working, and it was just a very full and busy time.
Speaker 2
Hustle.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Total LA hustle. And we weren't of course, we weren't saving any money, you know, even though we were making pretty decent money with all of that, work. So it was a total change of pace. And I knew, and I've probably mentioned this on the podcast before, I knew that I really needed to do a major recalibration of my nervous system prior to conception and then during the pregnancy as I had spent, you know, over a decade attending births primarily in captivity and had a lot of secondary trauma that I needed to process and look at and reconfigure, and and certainly knew in my heart that I couldn't attend hospital birth with the amount of abuse and violence that I was seeing on the regular, with a soul growing inside of me. It just it was it's too much. I was maxed out. It felt like I was pretty much like it was breaking me. So honoring that, we got out of LA and he went to work and I got to work from home for the first time. And last year, you know, I got to work from home and started the podcast and, transferred, you know, all of my nonprofit stuff kinda to do it long distance and still continued to go to LA almost every month to do that work. But we found a really nice balance, and it was amazing. One interesting piece that I'm really grateful for that we I got to do prior to my moving up north was Johnny actually went up ahead. I had some births to finish in LA and lived with one of my best friends for a couple of months. So Johnny went up ahead, and I had to finish some births. And then, I was able to pull off doing something I had really hoped I would be able to do before I had a baby, which was return to India, with two of my dear sisters who went to India and Indonesia for about six weeks at the end of twenty sixteen. And I called it my maiden voyage, which what I meant by that was it was really the start of what, you know, would then be a a long process of saying goodbye to my maiden stage and going somewhere that was really special to me. I'd spent a long time in India when I was nineteen, and it really shaped a lot of who I, have become. It's a really sacred place for me. I had gone there with my sister. And so I knew I wanted to return there, but I wouldn't bring a baby there and just wanted to have a space where I could travel freely, you know, as a wild woman with my wild sisters without any agenda and really honor the final time I was probably ever gonna travel without a baby and going somewhere that I probably wouldn't bring a baby, and without Johnny, you know, to really do this as a as a as a maiden. It was really, really, really cool and, you know, so grateful that I got to pull that off and was gone for about six weeks and did some in
Speaker 2
I just held it down in the Yeah. Super rainy, snowy winter in a cabin with very little cell phone service or Internet.
Speaker 1
Or joy. It was not it was not an equal, fair experience. Johnny really held it down while I got to go dance at sunset on the beach with my best friends in Yeah. In in the Gilly Islands. But
Speaker 2
Sounds chill.
Speaker 1
It was amazing, as you know. So really grateful I got to do that. And, of course, that's quite extravagant. But, you know, for anyone who is kind of in this conscious conception mode, I've heard a lot of women talk about just like a ceremony or a trip or, you know, a weekend camping or whatever, something to really put, like, a stake in the ground to mark that this is the end of this phase and to say goodbye to it and honor it and love it and enjoy it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was more like a death of a maiden voyage.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. It was beautiful. So then I came back, and we began it was, like, a three month or something cleanse, which really just meant, like, not doing bad things. Right. We stopped drinking and smoking and, coffee and, you know, just ate healthier, lowered our sugar intake, just, like, cleaned it up.
Speaker 2
And a few, like, supplements. Mhmm. My favorite one that I always like to talk about of my own personal stash of supplements was this blend of Chinese herbs. I can't even remember exactly what they all are, but the name of the of the supplement itself was called Supreme Creation. And I was like, Supreme Creation.
Speaker 1
Pretty boss. Pretty boss. He felt pretty. Pretty, powerful taking those. Yeah. My acupuncturist had recommended that. And I don't remember. They worked.
Speaker 2
It was for sure the supreme creation.
Speaker 1
Yeah. This baby was supremely created. You took some other stuff. We're gonna butcher all the names. I don't remember what you said. Herbs. Well, one sounds like asparagus. It's like astragulus. Astragulus. We shouldn't even try. But it was cool. You know? It was I'm so grateful to have a partner that doesn't shy away from all this stuff. And, you know, I think a lot of women and men think that conscious conception is just about the woman doing that work and cleaning her own body and preparing her heart. And, of course, that's not true. And if you're in a partnership and, you know, the the baby definitely wants the partner involved. But it was cool because it was more of a you know, it wasn't just a physical cleanse, and we didn't take it too seriously. It was just Yeah. It was pretty minimal really. Like, we knew we should do it anyway. But just to create a container around it. That was really what it was about, was giving ourselves some guidelines to say, okay. It's January. We're back together. We are gonna start calling our baby in in the spring, So let's start, you know, compassing towards that and moving our ship towards that. And what what is the most, you know, like, healthy environment that we could create
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
In our relationship, in our home, in our bodies, in our kitchen?
Speaker 2
It was the intentionality of it. Yeah. That was a big part of supreme creation.
Speaker 1
It was beautiful. And we did couple other more, like, spiritual things. Mhmm. We're part of a community that does meditative shamanic journeying in Northern California, and we work with these really powerful, incredible shaman women. So we went there to spend a weekend with them and just call upon the energy of our babies and had a really powerful time kind of opening up that portal and just beginning knowing that that was in March. So knowing that the following month, we were gonna lift this veil. And, you know, it felt it felt really fun and really playful to be so intentional about it. None of it was, like, serious or pressure or any of that. It was just beautiful to acknowledge that, holy shit, for the first time in either of our lives, we were about to say yes to a baby and intentionally try, I hate the word try, intentionally welcome, you know, and be ready, for that if if our baby was ready.
Speaker 2
Yeah. We kept it was funny. We kept saying Emily kept being like, I'm pregnanting. Yeah. Prior to conception where we were setting that intention and working towards that goal and that was our focus in our home was we are opening this window. Mhmm. And we are opening ourselves to receive this and, you know, even weeks, months prior to actually saying, okay. Now let's start with the really fun part.
Speaker 1
And, again, it just felt really respectful. It's felt really respectful to each other and to this space and to our child that we really wanted to come join us. And how could we honor him or her, you know, in a way that souls deserve? So that felt really fun and awesome. And then the following month, we did a child welcoming ceremony with a wonderful shamanic man at his home, and, it was pretty trippy. And we just kinda went along with it. He had offered it to us. And, right as we started to do it, the wind started, you know, turning and the, birds started, what is it, flying around us. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2
Uh-huh. It was pretty trippy. A chanupa ceremony. Is that the right word?
Speaker 1
Mhmm. I think so. And we could feel them. We could really feel the babies. And I thought maybe just I could because that wasn't my first time, but, the the man leading the ceremony opened his eyes, and he's like, you feel them? And Johnny and I both were like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. So that
Speaker 1
was pretty cool and fun and, again, like, very playful and
Speaker 2
It was cool. I mean, it was just, like, a dude in Sacramento who's, like, a pretty remarkable dude.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I loved this dude.
Speaker 1
But it was a beautiful offering. And, yeah, again, it was just, like, these fun, playful, little ways to start opening the portal and creating some sacred space around it. And then on my next fertile window, which was a couple weeks after that, that man had given us some ideas, and we had some ideas in the back of our head of things to do, kind of ritualistic things that we were gonna call in. So we did some again, it was all very lighthearted, but we had a candle that was specifically the baby's
Speaker 2
burnt some special incense that we got with Greg and
Speaker 1
Yeah. We had special incense that was, like, fertility incense and a special candle that we would light, before we made love and pray to the baby. And, you know, it's very simple. Just, baby, we welcome you, and we're we're ready, and we're ready when you are, and we trust your path and your timing. And we're open on our end, so you
Speaker 2
come when you're ready. Part of that intentionality. Mhmm. You know, the incense and the candle and the The rose baths. The rose baths. You know, it was all part of saying this is for a specific reason.
Speaker 1
It was really cool. And, you know, we've been together for almost five years, and the sex was really different. It was amazing. I mean, it's always been amazing, but it was like so powerful and so free and so heart connected. I mean, I remember just tripping out like, oh my God, my entire sexual life, I've never actually made love a hundred percent open because I've never wanted to conceive. And, of course, that is a huge, I don't know if byproduct is the right word, but that's a huge part of sex that can or cannot happen. And I've never wanted to be pregnant before, like, truly wanted it. And so a part of me energetically has always been, like, closed down and I mean, understandably. And so and probably in everybody who doesn't wanna be pregnant and to Certainly. Yeah. And to experience, you know, making love with my soulmate and
Speaker 2
With the intention of conceiving.
Speaker 1
Just to be completely open and and free and, like, no nothing holding me back energetically. It was it was profound. You know? I have thought about that and doing that for a long time and had looked forward to it. So I I remember even as a kid, I was like, that is the most romantic concept I can think of. But to actually do it, you know, with the right person for me and at the right time, it just oh, well, it was just such a gift to give myself and and our family.
Speaker 2
This was April.
Speaker 1
This was April.
Speaker 2
First did all of this stuff.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So we had a great week, and I'm convinced that I got pregnant. I actually had an experience where I was laying down meditating with the baby soul, and I was just focused on my ovaries and, you know, I already knew that at least the Internet says that it takes about forty minutes for the sperm to get to the egg. So I was laying there for about an hour and just praying to the baby and thinking about, like, what crazy experiences was that I was calling in my pregnancy. And, I felt this little explosion in my left ovary. I don't know how else to explain it. And I'm not usually a very, like, subtly sensitive person, but I felt something and, like, I woke Johnny up and was like, hey. I just got pregnant. And so I I know. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2
I do.
Speaker 1
And so I'm pretty convinced that I did get pregnant, but it didn't hold. And we had a weird two weeks where I was like, god. I feel like I'm pregnant, but I I'm not.
Speaker 2
And Your body started to respond in
Speaker 1
some
Speaker 2
ways too that were pretty indicative of Mhmm. Of pregnancy. But, ultimately, you bled again.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And
Speaker 2
We should probably touch on fertility awareness a little bit too because when we were like, the the time frame we were shooting for was based very much on you having been tracking your cycle through those preparatory months, and as usual too. And so we
Speaker 1
And temping.
Speaker 2
We yeah. And just she was really paying attention to her body, of course. And so we you know, like, here's our target fertility window. So we started with super regular sex from a few days prior and during that window and then a few days after so we could try to hit the mark.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, yeah, that's worth mentioning. We I used fertility awareness method for years prior to conceiving, to not get pregnant successfully. This is my first pregnancy. And I guess I didn't temp for a long time. I would track my periods, and then I started temping. And I had a pretty good idea of when I was fertile, but also with my cervical fluid and knowing how that changes.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. And your your cycle's pretty regular. Mhmm. So Yeah. It was somewhat predictable.
Speaker 1
So I used it to not get pregnant for many years and then used it to get pregnant quite quickly. So that happened. Then I wound up bleeding. And, you know, it was emotional, and it brought up all the, oh my god. What if this totally isn't gonna be easy? And I always thought it would be so easy, and whatever. It was like a day of that, and then I got over it and returned to my trust. And Johnny and I actually, Johnny made this sweet little altar for our babies and put their names on these rocks. And, we spent the week prior to my next fertile window just meditating with them, and it was really cool. Like, we could feel them in the house, and we gave them a space on our mantle above our fireplace. And I don't know. It was kinda weird, but, like, I was home alone a lot. And I would just walk by the altar and be like, hi, babies. You know? Just, like, acknowledge them or, I've had a sense of the first one in in her name. And so I would just, like, say hi to her and be like, we're ready. You know? And just kind of we just, like, kept the energy really alive. But, again, without any, like, pressure or stress or anything weird.
Speaker 2
We just were opening our our lives to the idea of and the possibility of them joining.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So then we hit the fertile week again and went for it, and it was awesome. It was super fun and a little different than the time before. But same thing. We just had sex every day in the whole week.
Speaker 2
Well, this time we did it more. We had sex for a whole month
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Every day.
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. I was like I was like, this time, I'm not missing a day. When I stop bleeding There's
Speaker 2
no way to miss a
Speaker 1
we're going because missing a day is not gonna be the reason I don't get pregnant. Because the last cycle, there had been a day or two that he, like, stayed up at his work. You know, he was working on a ranch, and he would stay up there, and I didn't go. And so we had missed a couple days in the month. And so I was like, not this month. Like, that won't be the reason. So that was super fun because we had sex every day, sometimes twice a day, and, that obviously helped. So okay. So that was in May. Yeah. And it's the first week of May, and, we had kind of a dorky story
Speaker 2
about Okay. Yes. We had sex every day. Yes. You were tracking your cycle. But I think what really clinched it even beyond the supreme creation was part of one of our, like, precoital rituals that we did, you know Sacoic. We burned the incense, and we had the candles and all that stuff too. And as we were getting ready for bed, we playing some groovy tunes. Don't remember what it was.
Speaker 1
Oh, we were about to get in the shower.
Speaker 2
Yeah. We were about to get in the shower, and then we just started to dance. And
Speaker 1
And we had read online that one of the suggestions for conscious conception rituals was, like, temple dancing to for each other, which, of course, we thought was hilarious. And I'm
Speaker 2
not sure what that is. But We did some amazing interpretive.
Speaker 1
So we had laughed that, like, dancing for each other would be very funny and actually not sexy, and that was not something that we had done. But then it kinda wound up being that the day we actually conceived, this, like, really good song came on, and we had a really big bathroom at that time. And, we were naked in the bathroom about to get in the shower together towards the end of the night, and we just started dancing. And it was on Pandora, so it just kept playing good songs. And we danced for, like, a half an hour or something and danced our asses off, and we're just laughing and, you know, being silly and
Speaker 2
doing Mostly silly dancing.
Speaker 1
For sure.
Speaker 2
It wasn't like Yeah.
Speaker 1
Of course.
Speaker 2
Or, like, at a dope party and
Speaker 1
Like, getting a little through
Speaker 2
there, like, looking good.
Speaker 1
This was no one else should ever see what we did. Yeah. Totally. But it was super fun and playful. And, of course, we were cracking up. And and then, yeah, we went and and had sex after that and did the same thing. Like wouldn't Yeah. Called in the baby, and, and that was that. So it was kind of funny because the one ritual we had read online that we were like, yeah. Right.
Speaker 2
Like, I don't know. We'll probably pass on that
Speaker 1
one. But
Speaker 2
the Simple dancing. We did it, and we're pretty sure that was the night that
Speaker 1
we conceived. Totally. Which also, interestingly, is the same day that this podcast launched, which I didn't necessarily plan that way, but wound up that way, which is kinda cool.
Speaker 2
On that day. How auspicious.
Speaker 1
May sixth. Uh-huh. So that was our conscious conception story. And I know a lot of people have contacted me, you know, wanting to know more about conscious conception because that's a really new concept, I think, to a lot of people. And I guess I just wanna underline that it can look a million different ways. All it really means is that you're aware and intentionally Mhmm. Calling in your baby. And so there's lots of fun ways to do it, and so many women have done it in so many different ways that I've now heard since I've started sharing this story. But, you know, hopefully, partners can be involved in this too because, of course, we need their one cell
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Contribution and their energy and their spirit, and, it really was quite romantic.
Speaker 2
But, also, I think what is needed is also that intentionality that partners can bring and opening up the home to that and being prepared to receive in a way. Like, yes, all I'm contributing is amazing dance moves at one cell, but the bigger picture of that is that I'm also creating the conditions for this Yeah. To happen in conjunction with you.
Speaker 1
And, of course, you're contributing so much more because our baby's choosing you just as they're choosing me and the way that you've nurtured me and all of my ideas with such openness and support. You got good ideas. Thank you. So, yeah, that was conscious conception. Super fun. Highly recommend it. It can look a lot of different ways. You know, and some of the stuff we shared, like, it felt silly to do, but I wouldn't change it for the world. You know, we're not particularly, like, hippie dippie spiritual even people.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
I guess it's all relative, but it felt really good to go there, and it felt really vulnerable. And
Speaker 2
And if you've got some incense, burn it.
Speaker 1
Yeah. If you have a candle, light it.
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 1
And I wasn't surprised that our baby came. You know? Because who wouldn't wanna come party with that?
Speaker 2
Totally. I'm gonna have to look up what temple dancing is. But
Speaker 1
Well, temple dancing, I think, is, like I mean the beautiful dancing that women do, usually, in temples. That is not what not the clockwork dance here, though. We did bathroom private bathroom dancing.
Speaker 2
What's the clockwork dance?
Speaker 1
You ever were you ever my dancers? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So now we're gonna just pivot a little bit to the pregnancy. So I knew I was pregnant pretty quickly because things changed really quickly. My breasts started to feel different right away.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
I started peeing so much right away, which hadn't happened before. But I kept doubting myself, which I hadn't expected. And I didn't want to take a pregnancy test. I wanted to have a fully autonomous, hands off, blah, blah, blah pregnancy, which shy of a pregnancy test I did do. But, I really thought that I would have more confidence that I was pregnant. And I think because I had bled the week or sorry, the month before, I was kinda scared to think I was pregnant if I wasn't. And, of course, I didn't wanna be disappointed.
Speaker 2
And And from my perspective, it seemed impatient too that you were, like Yeah. You wanted to know right now. And your body was telling us
Speaker 1
Everything. Pregnant. But that was the case ten months prior. My temp was still high. And
Speaker 2
your boobs were hurting.
Speaker 1
Yeah. At this point, I should probably mention, though it's probably obvious since I host this podcast, we we've been planning prior to conception that this would be a free pregnancy, you know, that I would be, choosing to not opt into any care, other than self care and Johnny care.
Speaker 2
Johnny care.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So part of that was and you guys have listened to my podcast. You already know. I was a birth keeper for a long time and really wanted nothing to do with the regulatory systems that oppress birth and women. So I knew that I would be doing this with myself as the leader, which is pretty much how I live in general about everything. Mhmm. So part of the beginning parts of this that were challenging was the pregnancy test. I didn't plan on taking one, and I had assumed that I would have complete confidence that I was pregnant. You know, like in Robbie Davis's Floyd Davis Floyd's book, she talks about how women only take pregnancy tests when they already know they're pregnant, which of course is not necessarily always true, but, you know, speaking to this this need for validation and confirmation outside of ourselves. And I really wanted to test that and push those boundaries. So after we conceived and there was a couple week period where it seemed like I was pregnant and my boobs were getting bigger and I was peeing all the time and I felt a little different, I couldn't decipher between being hopeful and what I was feeling. And I was temping, and my temps were high and, but I was still right before my blood time. And finally, I actually got one.
Speaker 2
But it was kind of like the the whole, like, you know, you're, like, you are morally or ethically opposed to Yeah. Using the pregnancy test.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because it represented the first step of giving away power to the technocratic model that you have to look outside of yourself for validation in a in a very internal experience.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
So I was kind of, like, going
Speaker 2
You were kinda spinning out. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I was going a little crazy and, yeah, very impatient. And finally, you know, Johnny, you know, gave me great permission, which I really do appreciate. And he just kept being like, chill out. You know? You're gonna do this whole free pregnancy. You know? This isn't harming the baby if there is one in any way, shape, or form. Just do it.
Speaker 2
It I don't view it as an intervention. I don't view it as assistance per se either because it's something that you are wanting and administering it to yourself. I was like, dude. Get the test.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I got a test, and it was funny. I remember being in the bathroom, peeing on it, and he was in the bedroom right around the corner. And I was like, I've succumbed to the technocratic model. I'm giving away my power. There may
Speaker 2
there may have been some tears around that.
Speaker 1
I know. But it was, like, in between being serious and not serious because obviously that was as far as I was gonna go. But I have to say I did it. It was positive and I'm super stoked I did it. And I put I think I did, like, two more. I could have done them every day. Three. I loved it. And I still love the idea of doing one.
Speaker 2
Don't you still have one of those?
Speaker 1
I love the idea of, you know, having a pregnancy without it. I that's, like, on my bucket list. But I had to just give myself some slack and chill out, and, it was awesome. Then I put it on the kitchen counter, and it was actually really helpful in those first couple of weeks, you know, when it's still really heady and you're just like, wait. What? And especially your first pregnancy ever, it just didn't feel real or true. And so I kept walking by the test and would look at it. I mean, I would look at it, like, twenty, thirty times a day.
Speaker 2
You're like, oh, yep. No. Still still pregnant.
Speaker 1
There's still a line, and it felt really exciting and and was helpful. So, anyway, I know that's, like, way more, like, out there than probably most people have ever given it a second thought, but it was something I had to just get over and let go of.
Speaker 2
Wow. Glad I could help.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Thank you, honey. So the first trimester was pretty straightforward. I felt great for six weeks. And then right as the clock struck six weeks, I went down for about six weeks, maybe seven. And
Speaker 2
A little brutal.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, nothing nothing uncommon. I never threw up, which threw up one time. Yeah. Very grateful for it because that's no bueno. Shut up. Thirty days. Well, yeah, I'll probably throw up in labor, but I went down for about six to eight weeks. And I don't know. I mean, a part of me was gonna say it was kinda brutal, but not really. It was it felt like exactly what it was, which was my body protecting itself and wanting to eat very little and very bland. And, thankfully, you know, I I do have the respect for the process, and I was so grateful to be pregnant. And the whole thing is just so exciting, because I wanted to be pregnant in particular. That and I guess I have to say that the best part is that I had orchestrated my life to be in a place where I could just rest
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Which most women do not get that opportunity. And so, I mean, I had about a month where I just felt horrible, and I just stayed in bed.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You slept a lot.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I slept even more in the second trimester. But I just chilled out, and I did podcast when I wanted to. And I worked from my bed and, hardly could eat anything. And, like, weirdly, my go to was the Caesar salad kits, which I haven't eaten since high school. But it was weirdly, like, one of the only things that didn't sick me out. And, I mean, I had days where Johnny would come home from work, and he would feed me while I laid down because I just couldn't even bear to lift my head. But putting
Speaker 2
And it's tough at that stage because you're feeling so nauseous and nothing sounds good to eat. But almost without fail, getting some food into you, the right kinds of foods, almost always made you feel better. So it was, like, almost always yeah. It was, like, a test of will to get the food, protein stuff that we could muster into you as best we could, and you would almost always feel better.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. But I was grateful to know that, you know, baby gets what they need, and it's all good. This was totally normal, and, it never felt like I never complained about it. It was just like, wow. What a what a new and weird experience. But, yeah, bruise you know, cruise through that. I did I taught a couple trainings in that time, which was a little hardcore, to feel like I was gonna throw up while I was teaching a class, but whatever. Women do way more. I mean, I just kept thinking about women who have multiple kids and who, you know I mean, some of my friends were telling me stories about how they would, like, show up at work and just quickly puke in the basket before they'd walk into their shift. And, you know, I just every day, I thanked my lucky stars that I Yeah. Didn't have to be in that position this time. Who knows what it'll be like second time around and with multiple kids and once I'm working again, in, like, a more real way.
Speaker 2
I wanna tell a story about the first trimester.
Speaker 1
Okay.
Speaker 2
I remember another thing that happened for you and for me in the first trimester was you started to get this, like, aversion to touch. And we had this routine where I would get up before she did, even before the the massive amounts of sleep you were getting during the first trimester. And, you know, when I was getting I'd get ready for work and whatever and do my thing. And then when I was leaving, I'd come in to say goodbye and, you know, give you some kisses or whatever and and be sweet while you're, like, half half asleep. And I remember a few times where you were just like, get off me. There were a couple times when I would go and kiss, and you just, like, startled awake and, like, face pushed me away.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like, I was repulsed.
Speaker 2
I was like, oh, okay. Well, have a good
Speaker 1
have a good day. Sorry, ma'am. Sorry, ma'am. Yeah. That was weird. Else. That was weird. Or in the morning, like, before you get up, if you tried to spoon me, you know, at five or six AM, I was, like, so repulsed by being touched. It was really, really weird because that has never happened to me, well, by anyone, but definitely by you. Yeah. It has it was super, super weird.
Speaker 2
I didn't take it personal.
Speaker 1
I know. You're good at that.
Speaker 2
It's just like, what ifs?
Speaker 1
And it went away.
Speaker 2
I gotta go anyway.
Speaker 1
Well, and a lot of women say that happens once they're breastfeeding. They get so touched out.
Speaker 2
Okay. I'll look out for
Speaker 1
that. Yeah. Having a baby on them constantly, that more touch is, like
Speaker 2
You have your other
Speaker 1
Just you just, like, max out.
Speaker 2
Man baby on you too.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So good story, bro. Great. Totally. Yeah. Oh, another thing I did wanna mention that was kinda crazy was around twelve or thirteen weeks, I had a almost drowning incident.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1
We had gone tubing on a whitewater river, and I had accidentally flipped out of the tube and it was really scary and it was, there was a bunch of rocks and, it obviously worked out and I didn't get too beat up, but it, it was one of the only things that's happened in the pregnancy where I was like, is the baby okay? Or was she like I never really thought, like, should we go get an ultrasound? But I definitely was rattled and Yeah. Was like I mean, my belly didn't hit the rocks, but, you know, and I didn't go unconscious, but pretty much shy of those two things happening. Everything else happened. You know, I definitely got held under, and I was incredibly shaken. And
Speaker 2
It was scary.
Speaker 1
It was really, really scary. And but it was really the only thing that made me think, okay, so something could have happened, and what do I do now? And all that an ultrasound would do for me is just show me if the baby, you know, had had died or not. It wouldn't even show at twelve, thirteen weeks if it was, like, injured or something. It would just show,
Speaker 2
like, a
Speaker 1
heartbeat or not.
Speaker 2
And it wouldn't change.
Speaker 1
Right. Well, and that's the thing is ultrasounds don't change outcomes. Well, they could if negatively, but Sure. They don't you know, the only information they give you is is there a heartbeat today? In this exact moment, is there a heartbeat? And so, yeah, that was a little, like, confronting, and I was a little worried, but the reality is babies are incredibly protected, and they're meant to withstand a lot, and of course we were fine. So,
Speaker 2
But we never went back to that river?
Speaker 1
We never went back to that river. I was done with that freaking river that tried to kill me and my baby.
Speaker 2
It was our it was our safe space for a while.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Anyway, so that was first trimester. It was pretty straightforward, pretty common. And it didn't really get super heady for me until second trimester because all my symptoms went away. And I think the hardest part of the whole pregnancy has been was around fourteen, fifteen, sixteen weeks before I could hear the heartbeat on the fetal scope and before I was showing, really not trusting that I really was pregnant. And, you know, some of you know I I in the birth world, I also work in the non live birth world, and that's a large part of what my nonprofit does, is supporting women having non live birth outcomes through abortion, miscarriage, and stillbirth. And so, you know, I was talking with women every week, and connecting them to full spectrum doulas and, you know, talking with women all the time about their losses and many women that I knew, throughout well, my whole time working in birth, but but also in my pregnancy. You know, I was I was assisting women who found out that they had lost their their pregnancy and, you know, was gonna go it it would take a month to pass the pregnancy. So that was really tripping me out that I was about to release to the world that we were pregnant in a really excited way. And I hadn't had anything super validated externally. I I don't know if that makes sense, but I just had a couple of weeks there where, you know, when I would meditate, I would just cry, and I would feel these waves of worry and self doubt. And, like, oh my god. What if I'm over here thinking I'm pregnant, and, really, the fetus has passed, and I am, you know, gonna, like, find that out because it can take many weeks to pass a a lost pregnancy or unviable pregnancy, it was really, like, weird. It just it kept coming up for me. Mhmm. But, you know, that was that, and we went through it. And
Speaker 2
And that wasn't gonna change our desire to let it be what it is. Totally. Gonna drive us to go
Speaker 1
Do anything bring out
Speaker 2
a doppler or or
Speaker 1
No. No. Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 2
Anything like that. It was
Speaker 1
It was just like another layer of surrender and, you know, this
Speaker 2
And trust
Speaker 1
Yeah. In Whatever it is.
Speaker 2
Whatever it is and your body to do it well if it needs to do it well. And
Speaker 1
And just letting go. And, I mean, that's what everyone says, right, about pregnancy and parenthood, and it's just returning to that that space of letting go and surrender. And, you know, this is a lot of the work of free birth is that you don't just run to a doctor to get an ultrasound or you don't just, pull out the doppler or whatever. You know? And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. That's just not my interest at all. That's not where I wanted to go spiritually, and, it's not what I wanted to do to this baby. And, it was deep. It was hard and deep, and, it was not easy for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2
And I I think that's a reoccurring theme that I hear from from listening to a lot of the stories on this podcast is I think that there's a misconception in the world that free birth and mamas are fearless or ignorant, and I have found it to often to be the opposite, where they're the most informed, which is why they're choosing what they're choosing. And they're they're not fearless. It's just a way of embracing that fear or riding that fear or trusting through it. And I think that that was a really good example of that fear coming up for you or that unknown, that anxiety around the unknown and being able to navigate that through.
Speaker 1
And I remember having this real epiphany around that time. I was on my yoga mat, and I was holding my womb and crying and feeling a lot of new stuff. And I just realized, like, this is never gonna end. The opportunity to worry about my baby is just beginning. You know? And this is actually, like, the easiest part to worry about because at some point, I'm gonna worry about the party she went to or the company she chooses or if she's gonna come home, you know, in one piece. Like, though that's the real shit. Once your baby's outside and they're people of the world. And I just yeah. I just, like, realized, like, oh, this is becoming a mother to sit in the not knowing and to, feel worried and fear and doubt and all of that. And and, like, guilt. You know? Like, I had been drinking caffeine for some migraines that I had been having, which was not my intention with the pregnancy, and I just wound up really needing it to cope. And I felt really bad about it. I still feel bad about it because that was not in my, what I believe to be in the best interest of the fetus, but I did it anyway because I just needed to. And, yeah, like, I've never felt that stuff before. I have never really felt guilt. I've never really felt self doubt. I've never really felt worry. I know that sounds really crazy, but I it's just kinda, like, not really who I am. So, you know, it was about welcoming in that work and sitting with it and knowing that this is just beginning because once you get through one part, then there's a next thing to worry about. You know? And every stage of the pregnancy has brought up a plethora of things I could worry about. You know? Now I'm on the verge of birth. So if I wanted to go there, which I don't, there's obviously a long list of things I could be worried about. And then what about when the baby's here? Like I said, that's, like, when it really gets popping.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's I think, as you said, that that's the work of an unassisted pregnancy through my eyes, at least, is that when you give up the decision making and you give up the knowledge base to some other provider, you are disassociating yourself from the responsibility in a way where you are not as in touch with maybe the process or what you're putting into your body. You're trusting what other people are telling you that it puts a it puts a barrier between you and the intuition that you have around the pregnancy.
Speaker 1
That you could have.
Speaker 2
That you could potentially have. Or certainly the responsibility is all on your shoulders, and that can carry a certain weight when no one else is looking out for the pregnancy but you.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. I had a mantra around that time, which was something's moving inside me, and my stomach is growing, and I haven't bled. And anytime I doubted, like, is this really a pregnancy? Is this really a baby? You know, I was able to say that to myself once I could start to feel movement. And it's, like, the simplest mantra ever, but you can't really argue with that. Like, literally, what else would it be? You know? So, I mean, the the next question would be, like, is it intact, and does it have all of its Mhmm. Faculties? But at least we know I am definitely growing a baby of some kind, which was comforting in the second trimester. Do you remember when we first heard the heartbeat with the fetoscope?
Speaker 2
I don't know if I do remember.
Speaker 1
Because we tried, like, every night
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
For a while, around fifteen weeks. I should have written all this down, but, yeah, I think around sixteen or seven. It was seventeen weeks.
Speaker 2
Found it first.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Probably. But that was really fun to start hearing it, and I think it happened around seventeen weeks. A lot of people say to hide the phytoscope until twenty weeks so that you don't get worried if you can't find it. I'm quite convinced I have anterior placenta because I've had pretty muffled movement and found the heartbeat a little bit on the later end.
Speaker 2
But Plus the placenta sounds louder on that side too.
Speaker 1
And it doesn't look echo. But I'm it was really fun to try, and and it was fun to not hear it and to just get familiar with all the other sounds going on in my body.
Speaker 2
A lot of stuff going.
Speaker 1
Because we could hear the placenta before the heartbeat. Mhmm. And just to kind of, like I don't know. I mean, a lot of you probably listening have done this, but it always feels to me when I put the fetoscope on, like, I'm diving down underwater, and I'm, like, going into this other place.
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 1
Doesn't it isn't it kinda like that? It has to be silent, and you have to shove those things in your ears, and everything's so subtle, and it takes a minute to adjust to it. But once you're, like, in it, you're just kind of, like, in this other world. You have to close your eyes and figure out what you're hearing, and then, you know, you finally hear that little hummingbird, you know, pitter patter thing, and it's just unreal. And it's so much cooler than a dog cooler. I I think because it's, like, you're actually hearing
Speaker 2
the real but yeah. It's
Speaker 1
Well, and it's an echo. Whereas you're hearing with a fetoscope, you're hearing the actual sound.
Speaker 2
Interesting.
Speaker 1
Anyway, so that was really sweet. There's a little ritual that we did just to hear the baby's heart, and it was fun, and then it kinda ran its course, and I started, once I started showing, I was like, I'm good, and we hardly listened.
Speaker 2
We would listen like Like every morning. When you were like, I haven't felt a baby today. Yeah.
Speaker 1
So we'd do a listen for four of
Speaker 2
us or Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I started feeling our move, and that was super fun and started to get more and more obvious. And that was pretty much a shut in throughout the summer. I mean, legit. I didn't have any friends where we lived, and we wound up having to be down to one car. And so it was so hot. It was, like, a hundred and five. I mean, it was gnarly, gnarly hot. And, you know, I was in my second trimester, and so I just pretty much slept. I mean, I legit was sleeping twelve, fourteen hours a day. It was amazing.
Speaker 2
That's a lot. And you I mean, you're a sleeper.
Speaker 1
I'm already a sleeper.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was like It was extreme. Okay. Someone needs to step in and physically take you out of the house for a walk. So that's maybe that's what we did.
Speaker 1
After it had been a couple days, I'd get a little weird. I mean, I didn't think I was getting weird, but Johnny would be like, okay. You're getting weird.
Speaker 2
Go interact with other humans Yeah. Or animals outside literally, anyway.
Speaker 1
I know. We'd see more animals where we lived than people. So, anyway, it was really hot and slept an insane amount, but second trimester was chill. Really didn't have any bad things with it at all except for the migraines.
Speaker 2
But that was kinda early on. I think, like, later in that
Speaker 1
phase Well, because I was on caffeine.
Speaker 2
Oh, that's true. Yeah. Right. Right.
Speaker 1
Right. Right. Right. I didn't really get off it. And then we just kinda shifted into trying to finish the year, getting Johnny's job done and started to pack up the house in the fall, and it started to all get really quite real that we were gonna actually try to pull this crazy plan off.
Speaker 2
Oh, right. And I guess it should be said that at the start of the pregnancy we were just planning to be in Maui for the birth and shortly thereafter postpartum. But as the year went on, we were like, why don't we just not come back? Why don't we just stay there?
Speaker 1
And we realized that This is what we wanna be. Yeah. The only reason that we were thinking about coming back was ultimately scarcity consciousness. You know? It was, like, fear. Because, really, we've always wanted to live here. This is where we wanna be. This is where we wanna raise our kids. We love this place. And it was kind of just upper limiting, you know, just being like, oh, well, we couldn't pull that off, or that's too hard. And, you know, everybody probably wants to live in Hawaii, but it's not that simple. And we finally were just like, but what if we could? You know? What if we really, really, really actually could just stay? And what if the island would accept us and we could find work? And we just took the leap. And so we aligned with that, and it was
Speaker 2
quickly turned into we are going to take the leap.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And and we did. So by the time, you you know, the year was winding down, we had already committed in our hearts that we were going to take that
Speaker 1
leap. Stay.
Speaker 2
And we were just gonna come here for the birth and not go back.
Speaker 1
And do our best at least.
Speaker 2
And do our best.
Speaker 1
And see if the island will keep us.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
So to be determined since we've only been here for a month.
Speaker 2
TBD.
Speaker 1
TBD. We wrapped everything up, packed the house, put everything we owned in storage, shipped over two boxes, brought over four bags, and showed up in Maui.
Speaker 2
With no place to stay beyond the place we had booked for
Speaker 1
the Oh, yeah. We had no idea what we were gonna do.
Speaker 2
The bulk of December.
Speaker 1
So we had an Airbnb booked for December, and we just got to work. So we showed up here, and it was super rainy and weird vibes. And it's tourist season in December, and it was so hard to find a place. And, we hadn't emotionally prepared for that. And, you know, and I had no idea what my third trimester was gonna be like because second try was super chill, and I felt great and mostly felt like myself.
Speaker 2
Mostly the third was
Speaker 1
The beginning part. Yeah. I mean, it's still been chill, but, anyway, but finding a place and having that be really challenging, there were so few places available here, and of course the prices are insane, which we had prepared for, but, you know, you gotta, like, learn a new place, and this wasn't a place that we knew the ins and outs of. We've only ever been here as tourists, and so there was a pretty big learning curve of, like, what to look for and how to assess the right place and And, like,
Speaker 2
what part of the island we wanted to be and the price range and
Speaker 1
The whole thing was kinda crazy. Yeah. So I definitely had some, like, dark nights of the soul of being like, this isn't gonna work and, Only only a couple. Couple.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Couple. I gotta say, you've been crushing this pregnancy.
Speaker 1
Thank you.
Speaker 2
As far, like, I've had But
Speaker 1
for me to doubt my plan,
Speaker 2
doesn't work.
Speaker 1
I, like, never do that. No. But I think it was the You
Speaker 2
make good plans.
Speaker 1
Thank you. It was the culmination of the end of my pregnancy, and trying to find not only where we were gonna live, but where we were gonna birth Right.
Speaker 2
And where
Speaker 1
we were gonna do postpartum. And the pressure. Pressure. Yeah. This is a big deal. And we knew we wanted it to be really private, and I I ideally would have a place where I could be outside. And a lot of places here have multiple buildings on one piece of land, and we just we didn't want to deal with anyone else. We didn't want shared walls. We actually experienced some prejudice with the baby and people not wanting, you know, a couple that's about to have a baby to move in. So, yeah. We it just took a while, and and interestingly And there's not
Speaker 2
a lot of options.
Speaker 1
Yeah. There really wasn't.
Speaker 2
Pretty competitive. So Interestingly,
Speaker 1
right before we found the place at thirty six weeks was the thirty six week breakdown. And it was really the only
Speaker 2
The classic thirty six week breakdown.
Speaker 1
It was really the only breakdown I've had Mhmm. This whole pregnancy. And from what I've heard since then, it's apparently quite common. But, yeah, a lot of women have said that the same thing happened to them. But I fully went into, I don't want this baby. What were we thinking? I've made a terrible mistake. Why did you believe me that we should do this?
Speaker 2
It's true. That wouldn't happen.
Speaker 1
I was like, I just wanna take drugs and go to Burning Man and move back to LA and go dancing with my friends and just was like, what am I doing? And I think, you know, the clock turning thirty six changed a lot for me, and it made this it, like, clicked into people birth at thirty six. People birth normal healthy babies. And I
Speaker 2
Plus you had a friend who was tracking Mhmm. About the same
Speaker 1
Who had her baby.
Speaker 2
Gestation with you, who had her baby, like, right before that or right around that time.
Speaker 1
Just made it real.
Speaker 2
Shit got real.
Speaker 1
Yeah. In a whole new way. And that I really was like, oh, I'm now in my birthing time, and now I need to just be, like, ready. And we don't have a house. Have
Speaker 2
a house.
Speaker 1
And this is was harder than we had planned. And what was I thinking moving to a random tropical island away from everywhere that we know, at the end of my pregnancy with no friends around? And it's just a total dark night of the soul, and I was just crying and, you know, feeling very, it was like shifting from it being conceptual to being very real.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And I don't know what I thought I would feel, but what I was feeling was that I didn't want this, and I didn't feel connected, to the baby. I couldn't envision the birth. It was it was it was rough.
Speaker 2
You know?
Speaker 1
I was just crying, and I remember just laying on the bed being like, you know, will you love the baby when I can't? And, you know, thankfully, I have a wonderful partner, and, you know, he was just like, I'll love the baby twice as much on the days that that you can't. And you don't have to love your baby every day. You know? And he was just saying It was
Speaker 2
like a tall order.
Speaker 1
It's a tall order.
Speaker 2
They're like, you could take a few days off.
Speaker 1
Yeah. You just you know, it was wonderful and held the space. And, and of course, I moved through it. And, like, the next day, we found the perfect place, or maybe it was two days later or something. We worked out the perfect place and moved in on New Year's Eve, and I needed to rehabilitate my body a little bit that week because I way overdid myself, and that was now thirty seven weeks or so. And I kinda strained my back and was scared that I was gonna go into labor not feeling that physically great.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
But a couple days of rest and a nice massage and blah blah blah. I was fine. And now I've just been kind of, like, coming around to it. You know, I think part of this what's the right word? Gloom is too dramatic, but part of this ambivalence that I've been feeling definitely has to do with acknowledging and and mourning this maiden that I have loved so much, and I have had such a great time with her. And, you know, I've been on my own since I was sixteen and just have had a blast, and I was in the circus, and I've traveled the world, and, you know, I've I've had crazy partners, and, you know, just the whole thing. I've lived all over, and I've run business in LA. And I've made tons of money and lost lots of money. And, you know, I've just had, like, a wildly fun, adventurous, privileged life.
Speaker 2
And we've had a pretty sweet run as a couple too. Totally. Going to be drastically altered anytime Tonight? Now.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And that's, you know, that was, at least for me, a similar realization that it's, like, not just gonna be you and I anymore.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Yeah. Totally mourning that. That's sad.
Speaker 2
It's gonna be a third because we have a good time, and I I love the dynamic we have. I love the life that we have together, and I'm sure that I'll love the life we'll have with whoever comes out of you, but, you know, it's gonna be different, and it's gonna be drastically different.
Speaker 1
So have you been, like, scared or worried about that like I have? Because you seemed, like, pretty confident and grounded the whole time.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I have. Sure. I mean, that's kind of my, you know, when everyone's always like, are you ready to be a dad? It's like the only thing that I'm have had any doubts about being ready about would be the altered dynamic that going from you and I who are able to change our life pretty drastically anytime we want. We wanna move somewhere, we move. We wanna do something, we do it generally. Yeah. And we're both able to make money, and we're both able to sort of Mhmm. Have some independence that this will change that dynamic drastically. So, you know, but
Speaker 1
It is what it is.
Speaker 2
No use having an opinion about it now.
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's one of our classic lines in our families. We just say there's no use in having an opinion on it when it's something you can't change because it's true.
Speaker 2
That's just almost like the fear of the unknown
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
Talking because it's probably gonna be more awesome. And it it may not change some things as drastically as I think it will. I I don't know. It'll undoubtedly change a lot, but I don't know what that's gonna look like.
Speaker 1
I haven't had a kid
Speaker 2
with you before.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think with my work in the birth world and having supported and, you know, seeing so many families and moms, I'm not disillusioned about how big of a transition this is. And so many women mourn their maidenhood after the fact because they had no idea that it was gonna be how it is. And I feel like I got kind of a jump start on that. Yeah. You know, even with, like, taking that trip, you know, a year ago being, like, I'm gonna start this shit now, yeah, because I know everything's gonna be different, I don't know what different that will be, but yeah, anyway, just just being present with that and acknowledging it, and I hope it'll soften the blow. I think it probably will. I
Speaker 2
think it will.
Speaker 1
Anyway, and then we had I mean, so that pretty much brings us up to now. We're here, we're settled, we have a wonderful house that we are totally grateful and stoked to be in, and now I'm almost forty weeks and we're just chilling, you know? Johnny was able to, or we were able to have savings coming over here from the job that he had this year, so this was exactly what we planned and created, was to, you know, do this previous year, and live really cheaply, and work really hard, and put away money so that we could come here and just check out for a couple months, before we needed to start, you know, making an income again, and just be fully present, and not have the dad that has to go back to work at two weeks, and the mom that has to work up until the day she's in labor. Right. And I have so much empathy and compassion for those situations. And I I I know it is from such a space of privilege that we were able to orchestrate this in the way that we did and with such intentionality. And honestly, a lot of it, I think, comes down to priority. Like, this is the biggest priority for both of us and has been since we got together.
Speaker 2
And we've been slowly tweaking and moving our life to Mhmm. To manifest this situation. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that we're not blessed and we're not privileged. It it just means that we've been able to work with those blessings in a way that gets us to this point.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that this was our biggest priority. Oh. More than owning a house or
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Whatever. Lots of other things that are great to prioritize. But, you know, a lot of this I might have said this in the beginning, but a lot of this for me comes down to, I want this to be as easy as possible. I want this to feel as good as possible. I want this to be as joyful, and as little stress as possible. And so this is the plan we created. So we'll see, we'll see how it goes, but I'm feeling really set up and So
Speaker 2
far so good.
Speaker 1
Yeah, so far so good. So now we're just having a wonderful time here, having slow days and being cuddly and, you know, exploring the island and
Speaker 2
Drinking tea.
Speaker 1
Drinking a lot of tea and going to these special places, you know, around here, and, it's the first time ever that we aren't working and busting our asses and, just, like, totally shifting into, you know, a downshift where we are just with each other and connecting and
Speaker 2
It's a totally different lifestyle that is not gonna last forever. No.
Speaker 1
This is total fantasy land, what we're doing.
Speaker 2
A whole different lifestyle than we've led before. Yeah. Certainly as as in partnership together. And but I I can't think of a more special way for this transition to take place during this fantasy land that we've created.
Speaker 1
Well, we're never gonna get this time back. You know, that's the thing. Like, well, this is this is so sacred that we've carved out this space and that we have it carved out for postpartum. We're never gonna get that back. Our baby's only gonna be a baby, you know, one time. We're only gonna have one baby one time. And this is our last couple days or weeks of being a couple, and we really like each other and love being together. And, you know, we we spent a lot of time apart the last well, our whole our whole relationship. We've spent a lot of time apart because of jobs and and traveling and all sorts of stuff. And to just be fully present with each other and, get as emotionally ready, you know, and and and great.
Speaker 2
And just really tune into each other Mhmm. Completely too and sync up as best we can. It's it's pretty amazing. So It's a good time.
Speaker 1
We're gonna pivot to some questions that we wrote out for each other. And some of these are questions that people actually have, like, emailed me or asked me on Instagram. So I thought they'd be fun to weave into the end of our podcast. So some questions for Johnny. So has your feelings around supporting my autonomous birth changed at all in this pregnancy?
Speaker 2
I would say they have only changed in the sense that I am more clear that this is the right way for our family. To expand on that, I would say that, you know, as we mentioned before, we set out for this to be an unassisted pregnancy and birth and at least unassisted from the sense of no medical intervention or technology or anything like that whatsoever. And truthfully, a lot of the strengthening of my confidence has come through listening to a lot of the stories on this podcast where it I I know I've told you this a bazillion times off air, but those stories are so important in normalizing this process. And I had no idea how many people I thought we were, like, these radical, you know, birthers. And it turns out that though there is some truth to that, we're not the only ones. And hearing these stories and being in the room for, you know, you being around these big Facebook groups and Instagram and things like that where there's a lot of these stories being told, it's really shown me that this isn't that crazy. And, of course, intellectually, I am aware that this is kind of the way it's always been and that your bodies are designed for this to work. But to know that there are many other people out there that are going through this process and, you know, the success stories of women, you know, like free birth, b backs, and stuff like that is so cool to hear about. But anyway yeah. So these stories have really shown me how normal it is, and that normalization is important, I think, for everyone.
Speaker 1
And I think because you've been with me as a doula, you've seen years of me coming home so traumatized from the violence that I've seen and the way women have been treated and the way the babies are treated. And, you know, you've held me, you know, in your arms while I've just cried and cried and cried about the violence that I've seen.
Speaker 2
Right. And for someone, me, I'm speaking of, for someone who's never actually seen a birth in person, I'm very familiar with hospital birth culture, through you, of course, and other birth worker friends that we have. And, you know, there's no part of me whatsoever that wants to put my lady and my baby through that situation at all. I mean, it would have to be life or death situation. Totally.
Speaker 1
Which is what they're good for. Which is what
Speaker 2
Western medicine is great for is is trauma.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So how do you think the birth's gonna be?
Speaker 2
I think it's gonna be juicy.
Speaker 1
I think It'll definitely be juicy.
Speaker 2
I think it's gonna be less dramatic than I think it will be in my mind or than the idea of childbirth is. You know, because it's gonna be our music with the birth playlist that you've put together and candles and, you know, most likely at least one or more of your sisters here. And, you know, we're setting up a birth playground with the silks and the tub and, you know, and the the shower or whatever it is. And I think it'll I think it'll go well. And everything that I've read, heard, seen of physiological childbirth, that juiciness I was referring to is like those that flush of hormones and there's a real sensuality to it that blows my mind because five years ago it was like the almost like parody version of it where
Speaker 1
it's In your mind, you mean?
Speaker 2
You know? Yeah. In my mind. Like, the the whole way that the media or the movie industry portrays it where it's a medical emergency every single time. And if you don't get to the hospital, it's like it
Speaker 1
dragging screaming hysteria.
Speaker 2
Streaming hysteria. And and, yeah, I think it's gonna go great. And I totally trust you, and I trust your body, and I trust the preparation that we've made. And, I mean, it's designed to work.
Speaker 1
So what do you what do you see as your role in the birth?
Speaker 2
My role is obviously from a support standpoint. You know? I mean, it's kind of as much or as little involvement for me as you want. You know, I'm here to be your rock as always, and I don't know. You might not want me in the room, or you might might just want me laying on the bed near you, or you might want me compressing your hips, or yeah. I don't know. I'm mostly just here to do whatever or as little as you need.
Speaker 1
Just, like, bear witness.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And hold hold space.
Speaker 1
So what intimidates you, if anything, about doing this at home without any medical management and being an hour from the hospital and
Speaker 2
it just being us plus a friend or something. Does anything does anything come up for you about that? Well, I what comes up for me is probably what comes up for me is probably related to me as a man of what if something happens that I'm not able to control, or what if there's something that needs to be done that I can't do. But then I really instantly come back to, well, I can't really do anything. There's this isn't the the place where I have any control, and I'm here to hold space and bear witness like you said. But, you know, what's intimidating is that, like, this is not a man's space. This is a woman's space. And
Speaker 1
And I have to say because you understand that, that's why you're welcomed in it. Truly. I mean, I couldn't imagine having a baby with someone that didn't get that, but you have such a deep understanding that this is mine.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And this is something I'm going through. And, of course, you're going to go through it by witnessing, but but you're not going through it. No. It's not our birth. It's the birth of our baby.
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 1
But it's my birth, and it's what I'm doing and what I've chosen. You know? And it breaks my heart that that's so hard for so many men to understand. I mean, I hear We're
Speaker 2
we're programmed to fix it and make it better and make it work and And
Speaker 1
be in charge.
Speaker 2
And be in charge.
Speaker 1
That's the other big piece
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And be responsible and
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Yeah. But really none of that applies. Mm-mm.
Speaker 1
No. This is women's work. Duh. Because only women give birth. You know, women own birth, and this is this is our space. And I think to be invited into it is really sacred, and it's so important to know what your role is in that, you know, which could look a lot of different ways. But I do think it fundamentally comes down to knowing that this is mine, and that's, like, the best thing that you can bring into this is to not assert yourself into it as yours
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Which you've done so perfectly.
Speaker 2
And my, you know, my role is to trust and to support and to hold space.
Speaker 1
So what would you say to partners who are having a hard time supporting home birth or free birth? You know, it's something that is so common. I hear about it and see about it and have women contact me almost every single day about how can I get my partner to come around, you know, to home birth or free birth? And I'm wondering what you would say any wisdom of of how you've come around to it.
Speaker 2
The way I came around to it was kind of a long and winding road that primarily was me witnessing your going to a lot of births, primarily hospital births, and seeing seeing the trauma there and starting to understand the reality of the birth culture in hospital and the way that regulations constrain mothers and that it is not mother and baby led, that it is obstetrician led. And the next step being even regulated midwifery, being led by the state, those regulations really restrict the scope of care that these women are able to give. And, you know, the the biggest piece of advice I could give would be to get educated on what hospital birth looks like and really just getting an understanding of what physiological birth looks like and what unassisted birth actually looks like. And that the horror stories of women dying in childbirth until doctors could save the day is really more myth than reality. And, actually, if you really look into it, it's more of a propaganda scheme than anything else. But, you know, the difference between intervention led birth and physiological led birth is night and day.
Speaker 1
And the long term effects of that on a family.
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I mean, and I think also I'll just chime in and say, you followed my journey with coming into free birth. We met, that wasn't I wasn't into it yet. I didn't know a lot about it yet. When we first got together, I was a doula who, of course, loved home birth and worked for a CNM, fairly medical midwife. And it wasn't until probably two years ago that I started to align with this idea of a fully autonomous pregnancy and birth. And so you were such a part of my journey
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
And processing with you and, playing out all of my different options. So that is something I would say to partners is, like, your woman's the leader, and she if she's being called to free birth, you know, she's doing it from a real intuitive maternal, like, deep knowing and curiosity, and that's something to trust, not something that no one takes lightly. It is not easy to go against the grain. It is so much harder. It is not easy to opt out of the medical model and, like, explain yourself to your community, and it's not easy to take a stand in something that has been so successfully stolen from us. So it takes a lot of courage, you know, for a woman to stand in this and to be drawn to this. And as we know, if anyone's listened to this podcast, a lot of women are drawn to free birth from previous trauma, you know, and just wanting the chance to have a normal birth. And that is so likely and so possible, and there's such a protective nature to normal physiological birth.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
But it does require a lot of unprogramming and learning and I was gonna say education, but not necessarily. I don't believe that you have to be super educated to pick a free birth. You know? No. It's just happens one way or another. You don't have to know anything.
Speaker 2
I suppose when I was using the term educated, really what I meant more was informed.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And I think that to piggyback on that a little bit, the the next facet that's important as far as advice I would give to partners or anyone who's fearful of it would be to listen to these stories and listen to unassisted birthers and really see for yourself how normal it is and how well it actually works when left alone. And to me, that was the biggest confidence booster in this whole process. You know, as much as I trust you and love you, and I know cerebrally that it can work, hearing it over and over and over from all of these different women and all over the place, different walks of life, people that are similar to us, people that are totally different, it's all happening the same way when left alone. And that was huge for me.
Speaker 1
So that's what I
Speaker 2
would encourage.
Speaker 1
We have to totally replace the narratives that have been fed to us since we were born Yeah. You know, of these last couple generations. I mean, we've only been birthing in captivity for a very, very, very short amount of time. But if it's what we know and if it's what our most recent lineage knows, you know, you kinda have to intentionally reprogram that, and you have to be willing to do it, you know, which I think a lot of partners, it's just like they don't wanna do the work.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
So thank you for doing the work and for your open mind.
Speaker 2
Yeah. My pleasure. How about you? Do you have any fears coming up around this or as broad or as specific as you want?
Speaker 1
Not really. I don't think so.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 1
I don't feel any fear about the birth. I was tripping on, like, does my baby have a face? And Right. Are its intestines inside its body kinda stuff just because I I only know that I think everything's okay, but you don't know till you know. But I think that's why I've switched into this kind of stoic ambivalent kind of space where I'm like, yeah. I could just be pregnant for another year, and I don't really know what's about to happen. Just kinda switched into a different space of I don't know, and that's all that's, like, the best I can do right now, and I don't need to know. I don't need the reassurance. The biggest thing I've come to about any fears that have come up is I know that I have the resources within myself to deal with whatever happens, literally whatever happens. I just know that I do, And I trust myself and our relationship and my support system to deal with anything that this life brings me. So that's kinda what I always come back to. And I'm not a very fearful person. I don't think fearful people probably choose this path, like people who are dominated by fear. Yeah. I don't I feel like I'm down with birth decimating me and kicking my ass. And I feel like birth loves me and I love her and we'll just figure our dance out. I'm not worried about any of that. So, yeah. I feel like very like I'm just in this kind of suspended space. Like, everything's about to go down. Then I don't know what it'll look like, but I do feel like I'll be taken care of. It's just the bottom line is things are what they are. And I don't have I don't struggle with that. And maybe again, like, that could just be like my total privilege and charmed life that I live that I can, like, say that so easily. But it also feels like deeply spiritual, like a deeply spiritual practice to live that way. And I don't wanna discredit that about myself because it's not easy to be like that, but I have trained myself over a long period of time to not be in resistance to the way of things. You know? Things are what they are. Like, Byron Katie has been one of my most profound teachers, and her whole, you know, lesson is loving what is. And that's been a huge practice of how can I love what is? And that's what's up. I mean, that's that's the work. You know? And I feel like this pregnancy has been learning, relearning that on a whole another level. But, yeah, things are what they are.
Speaker 2
So what's your vision for the birth?
Speaker 1
I think it's gonna be really romantic, like, with myself. Yeah. How nice
Speaker 2
for you.
Speaker 1
Like, I picture, like, my mantras on and candles and just being very internal and just, like, getting down with it. I just have I've wanted to know birth for so long. I mean, I've known it outside, but I've never experienced it. I just feel like I'm in such awe of it. I how could that it's just gonna be romantic. I mean, it's gonna kick my ass. I'm I have no illusions about that. I don't think it's gonna be, like, easy. But I don't have any fear of it. So I think that's when it can be really fun. And that's when, like, if I can just be like, let's do this, you know, and and welcome in that it's not just about meeting the baby, but it it's actually about experiencing birth. Yeah. You know? And that really interests me. Like, of course, that's amazing that my baby's on the other side of that, but I can't even really understand that. That's, like, too much for me to even
Speaker 2
It's kind of an abstract.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I can't even really get that. But that I'm going to get to experience birth, this thing that connects all of us, that's brought every single person and animal here ever, you know, that I get to have that privilege and experience and how that will change me. It's like walking through a portal or being thrown through a portal. You know, it's it's it's crazy. So it's intimidating. I mean, it's like the complete unknown, but I do have a lot of experience with going into other paradigms. And and I kinda feel like I'll be
Speaker 2
I'll be okay. He'll handle it. Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. So what do you see as my role in this birth?
Speaker 1
I think pretty much what you said earlier. Like, just to be present and witness and just be grounded and, you know, be the the sweet, gentle, grounded person that you are to me already. You know? I know how much you believe in me, and I know I know how not afraid of my power and my wild woman that how not afraid you are of that. And I think that's huge, you know, to know that I can just, like, be completely uninhibited and just go there in front of you. And I don't have any, like, modesty stuff. You know? I mean, we've talked about this of, like, I don't want you to see certain stuff. Like, I don't feel any of that. I feel like I'm just so excited to be, like, a wild woman in front of you. And, I don't know how much I how could I know, like, what I'm gonna want in terms of touch and
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
Talking and, you know, I've seen so many things, like, where the partner's breath is just, like, no matter what he does, she just, like, can't handle how he smells in labor, you know, even though he means well or, he just can't touch her the right way or, you know, whatever. So maybe we'll have some of that awkwardness, and maybe we won't. Maybe it'll be, you know, where you're just totally locked in with me and I'm staring into your eyes and we're kissing. Or maybe Maybe it'll be a
Speaker 2
little bit.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. So Well, you're The best thing is that I know you're so you're so able to not be in your ego and to just be like, you got this. I'm here. However you need, you're so able to do that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you're very able to ask for what you need and to make very clear what you don't want.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So I think that it I'm not gonna have to guess.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And Exactly. So your role is, like, to listen to whatever that is. Sure. And then it'll be great.
Speaker 2
Cool. So what is most important to you?
Speaker 1
I think the thing that comes up for me a lot about what's most important to me is third stage, and the baby coming out, and me having the three foot halo around me, and not being touched, and not having anybody talk, and not having anybody affect or change that energy. You know, I've been to so many births where the baby comes out and it's like, oh my God. She's so beautiful. And other people are saying the baby's name, and cameras are flashing. And everyone means well usually in those situations. But, you know, even I have taken that away from moms. Like, I have been the first person, you know, again, with the best intentions, but I have been the person to talk first. And I feel horrible about that. I I don't want that taken away from me. I want my voice to be the first thing that my baby hears.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And there's also, like, a very physiological protective logic to that too Sure. That I do think third stage is best protected by just the mom and baby having their experience and the mom getting to go through all the stages of kind of the natural assessment or primal assessment that she makes of the baby. And, I think that really protects the placenta and the bleeding and keeps all of that working together. So, yeah, I think just like that being honored and our my birthkeepers having space and just feeling their feet on the ground and breathing and not inserting themselves into that. That's usually what comes up for me as the most important thing.
Speaker 2
Got it. Understood. How has your definition of unassisted birth changed over the course of your pregnancy?
Speaker 1
Well, I stopped using the word unassisted
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
Right off the bat. I guess that was a big one, you know, pro just from a couple conversations with sister Morningstar of being like, that's a ridiculous term, and we have so much assistance internally and ancestrally and bio biologically and, you know, my partner and my friends and midwife friends and family, and, it's kind of a dumb term. So the literal definition has changed because I learned in this pregnancy that unassisted just was a governmental, title for a birth that was unattended by a medical professional for paperwork. So it's, like, not applicable, to the way that we talk about it. Also, I think it's just been really humbling to go through it myself. I mean, a a huge thing as a birth worker that I've learned having my own pregnancy is I'm pretty embarrassed I ever have given anyone advice before. I wish that I had, I've just learned it's just been so humbling to have this own experience and have the parts be, like, hard or heady and and just see what uniqueness and what self work is in this pregnancy. I regret not holding wider space for when women didn't know, and instead being the authority and being so quick to, like, give tips and advice, which now that I've actually been pregnant is kind of laughable to me.
Speaker 2
What? In the sense that you say it's okay not to know Yeah.
Speaker 1
Like that those holes
Speaker 2
don't have to be filled
Speaker 1
with tips. And to give like, to not take authority away
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
From whatever because that's the work. You know? The this is just such deep work, and I, as a doula, have filled so much with being the authority and, like, here's the suggestions, and here's how to connect a baby, and here's how to here's the exercises you should be doing. And the biggest thing that I've learned in this pregnancy is you don't have to do anything. You literally don't have to do anything. And just just get out of the way, you know, and and listen to yourself and love yourself. And babies happen, you know, and pregnancy happens. And that's really been the most profound thing to just continually learn that I don't have to do anything. It's been really freeing and beautiful. It is how could it not be? It's just, like, deepened so much trust in my body and my baby and myself and my own guidance. I don't have to do yoga. I don't have to do three hundred squats a day. I don't have to take this supplement or, you know, not eat this one food. Like, actually, nature and biology thrives in spite of, you know, all the things that we do to stand in its way.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That totally makes sense. And it's been really cool and really special as your partner to watch you navigate this pregnancy. And the way you've grown as a supporter of women and the way you've grown as a birth worker has been really remarkable to watch, and it's a it's a privilege of mine. And, I've just couldn't be more honored and humbled to be your partner through this process. I couldn't pick a better baby mama.
Speaker 1
And you've loved how stony and spacey and
Speaker 2
stupid. We never even talked about
Speaker 1
that. Because She's
Speaker 2
always, like, the hummingbird, super fast, very clear, linear thinker. And I'm kinda, like, the slow, dumb, dumb.
Speaker 1
You're not the dumb dumb, but you're definitely slower.
Speaker 2
But, man, those roles have swapped around. Yeah. I couldn't I she's, like, my turtle now. She just takes
Speaker 1
or she just takes a little bit my sentences.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's like you're stoned Yeah.
Speaker 1
A lot. You love it, though.
Speaker 2
It's like It's great. I'm always like, let's get it rolling, Emily. Come on.
Speaker 1
For the first time ever.
Speaker 2
For the first time ever.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's been fun. I can't believe we're at the freaking end.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. Well, we will check back in with you guys once the little tiger's here and share our birth story and let you know if it was romantic or not.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
If it might not have been, maybe I'll throw up the entire time. That is not romantic. But thank you all for listening. And, you know, I I I do also just wanna say, because this might be the last podcast before I give birth, I wanted to thank all of you for holding this space for us and for this baby. It's been so wild to have this virtual community that listens to these podcasts and that loves me and reaches out to me. And, you know, I'm constantly hearing from you guys, and it's just so cool, and I feel so held and supported by all of you as listeners and and, you know, as people in our Facebook group and my Instagram friends. And it's just so cool. So thank you for that, and you're all with us here in beautiful Hawaii preparing for this incredible portal transitional experience.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's been so fun, and I've really appreciated all the stories that are have been told on this podcast, and keep them coming. It's important. You women are amazing. Emily, thank you so much for having me on and sharing this time with me, and we'll keep you posted.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
