Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Today on the show we have Chelsea from Idaho who shares her journey of birthing her first two children in birth centers, to go on to free birth her next two babies at home. Chelsea shares her wisdom on how she chose to fiercely protect the privacy of her birthing choices. We talk about how Chelsea went through every labor stage prior to her final birth of her daughter and achieved a painless birth experience.
Speaker 2
I grew up very, like, Western medical, Did everything that way. My husband grew up everything not medical. His mom had a traumatic experience after he was born, and basically was told that she would figure out how she could heal herself. And then he's the fifth of seven. So the last two were born at home with midwives. The other ones were all hospital births. And so when I married him, she kinda started chiming in randomly about that. And I was like, no way. Epidural all the way. I'm not doing the pain. And then it something sunk in, and I kind of started researching it, before we got before I got pregnant. I got pregnant, like, five months after we got married. And, then we went to an OB for the first appointment and didn't meet the OB. And the nurse practitioner told me, I had asked her if I was gonna meet the OB in that appointment. She said, no. You'll have four different doctors. You won't know which one is gonna be at the birth. And I thought, Okay, this is really not comfortable. I'm not even meeting the doctor, and they are all gonna just kinda shuffle through each of my appointments. So I just didn't like it. And anyway, I had mentioned to that nurse practitioner we are thinking of at least looking at a birth center. She, just piped right in and said, yeah. I actually had all my births or took my births with the midwife. And I was like, oh. She's like, so you should probably look into it if you're leaning that way at all. And I was like, I will, which is surprising to me. You know, they were told OBGYNs, they weren't nurse midwives. So, we went and interviewed at the birth center. The midwives answered every question the way I wanted them to. And, so, yeah, we started with them. And And can I
Speaker 3
ask something real real quick in there? So making that shift from hospital to out of hospital also, of course, means that you're willing to commit to not using an epidural. So do you remember in that space? And I love that this story eventually gets to you free birthing because I love these baby steps and to just kind of, like, acknowledge them because that's Right. That's pretty big even just right there to go to to go out of hospital means I'm means that you're saying no epidural. Right. Do you remember that at all? Like, calculating that and making that No.
Speaker 2
I remember yeah. I remember walking out of the appointment, walking back to the car, and, like, talking to Jordan and saying, we are I'm calling the midwives. It just felt so impersonal, I think, is the word. And I just I think, really, just something deeply inside was, like, no way. And I knew that my pain tolerance was high. Like, I've had, you know, I have a tattoo and it's, you know, on my rib cage. And the woman's like, I've seen grown men cry here and, you know, when they get it there. So I knew that, like,
Speaker 3
my
Speaker 2
parents was fine. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And and Jordan's mom had had two at home, so he was very, supportive. And I think he knew more than I did just what I was capable of. So that was really special, I think. Trying to remember if I don't know if there was really anything else. I mean, it was kind of like as soon as I knew we weren't doing the OB, like, I could just feel in that first appointment, this is not right. Mhmm. That was like the epidural went went out of my mind. Now during all four births, during transition, my thought was, this is why women get epidurals. Mhmm. It's understandable. Each time. And so but then every time I was like, this is transition. So okay. I'm almost done. And so it's, like, such a fleeting moment that
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. With Cedric, I got really self conscious about my weight. So I started telling them my weight was less when when they would do my weight check because I gained over fifty pounds with him and I'm, like, five three. So I just was, like, really self conscious and thought they're gonna think something's wrong. I don't know. I just was so freaked out, which I think, you know, kinda shows my trust was pretty high, but not all the way there. And so then with Freddie, again, gained over fifty pounds and was also not telling them everything, but we refused everything with him. Only did the fetus go.
Speaker 3
But what were you withholding? Your your pre pre pregnancy weight?
Speaker 2
No. Like, during the weight checks. I just like, when you go into the bathroom and pee and then do stand on the scale, and then you go and, you know, and they do the, you know, blood pressure and all that stuff.
Speaker 3
Oh, you were telling them a different number?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, wow. Interesting. I just couldn't and I kept telling Jordan, I just I don't feel unhealthy. I don't feel uncomfortable, but I just didn't want them to know. I didn't want the looks. They'd already been really pushing. Like, protein is such a big thing. They push. And, I just wasn't, it just made me too uncomfortable. So Did
Speaker 3
you decline the gestational diabetes test?
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. I declined. I didn't do any testing ever. Yeah.
Speaker 3
I mean, your intuition was probably right. I mean, who knows? Maybe they would have really, you know
Speaker 2
And my blood pressure was always, like, I mean, low and or, you know, normal and on the lower end of normal, but normal and steady. So although I did have one when I had an appointment with a certain midwife, my blood pressure was always higher. And I would thankfully, we got the notes from the midwives, when we decided to have our third with just each other, just to see to look back on the labor and see. And it's really fascinating. But, yeah, I noticed that it was higher and I remember I remember that. And and I remember telling her, I'm actually feeling more, like, uncomfortable and I can I know this is gonna be higher? She got it. It was higher and I said, it's higher. And she's like, well, it's still normal so it doesn't matter. And I said, no, I don't like, I just remember thinking, I don't want that on my chart but and it's, like, it's the vibe. It's the vibe from you. So Interesting. You know, it's all those hindsight things that in the moment, it's like, oh, it's okay. I can just let that go.
Speaker 3
So how so how was your first birth?
Speaker 2
Really long. It ended up being like a thirty hour labor. I which I know is not a whole weekend, but it was long. It started, like, the day before. I just noticed it, was able to go back to sleep, and then they were just kinda steady all day. And I basically was not sure I was in labor, which now I know is just early labor. So we just spent the day hanging out. My husband works from home. So, and then we went out to dinner. That's when the contractions picked up and got back home, and it was getting really tough. But I could feel that he was really high. And, like, of all my other kids, they all felt low, but he was just up high. I I think my body just hadn't settled in yet. And so I could tell things were not moving. And we had taken a birth class that was awesome. And, you know, we had home birth, hospital birth, and birth center women all together. And so but she was very much pro, these are your options. This is what I, you know, I recommend is, like, serenity, peacefulness, you can do this. She was pro woman. So but she had made a comment during that that Jordan reminded me, like, if things kind of are slowing down and you feel like you need to do more than just get up and move your body. So I did, like, side lunges down the hall, which sounds atrocious, and it was, but it moved him down. And then we called the midwives and went in, and, I got in the water. Water just wasn't my friend in birth, which I was really hoping it would be. And my hips, I was born with hip dysplasia, which means that, like, the hip socket's not fully in. Right? So I had the braces on. And so I think that played into the hip pain during my birth. So I don't know that all women feel that hip pain that I felt. Obviously, I'm never probably gonna know that. So that was difficult because no one could touch me. I didn't wanna be touched. I remember getting checked several times and it at that point, you know, I had basically declined everything during my prenatals with the midwives. But for some reason, I at least in that birth, I think knowing, okay, you're at a six, like, I'm not like, all this last twenty four hours wasn't in vain. And then closer, you know, I think closer on, they could kind of just see Mhmm. Everything opening up. And then transition happened, and I threw up, which was wonderful. It was the best contraction of the whole thing. And I got on the bed a couple of times on my side trying to push. And I think the thing that really stood out to me as I've been reflecting on it was they told me you're at a ten, you can push, and so I did. Mhmm. And it ended up being two and a half hours of of pushing and it wasn't necessary. And
Speaker 3
And that's that's epidural talk. That's, you know,
Speaker 2
that's that's what we
Speaker 3
don't have.
Speaker 2
I know. And they yeah. And so I was on the birth stool and basically holding myself up because the pressure on my hips was so much. I just couldn't so every contraction, I just lifted myself up and pushed, and it was just hard.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And he came out, and he was blue. They ended up cutting the cord, and I got him out. And then they put him on oxygen, and they're, like, reassuring me he's he's his heart's beating, you know. And I hadn't, at that point, researched enough to realize why did we cut the cord. Yeah. There was no you know, all of that. And so I was just completely calm after he came out, though. I knew he was fine. I just had that deep mother knowing, I just knew. And he was. And so he started breathing. They brought him back. And
Speaker 3
I noticed that. Yeah. That's intense.
Speaker 2
It was.
Speaker 3
I mean, it's intense to force pushing and then to have a blue baby that's cut from you and put on oxygen and
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
That's a lot.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And he was a very he still is a high need baby and a high need person. And so and, you know, we're learning to not push him in life, that he's really in charge of his life. And that, like, I think just was the wrong start for him. It was just like, I'm gonna push you out. And I think he just needed some more time just sitting in there, which, you know, I don't looking back, he I just he can't change it. But, and I noticed that some people on your comments had liked knowing when the placenta was born. For some reason, I saw that on someone else's disease. Yesterday. So so, he was born at, like, seven in the morning. And with all my births, the water didn't break until almost right before they were coming out for the most part. But then the placenta was seven twenty. So he was only twenty minutes. That one was only twenty minutes after. And, he was my biggest eight pounds, twelve ounces. I'm pretty sure so I've they said he was born at thirty nine weeks. Pretty positive. I was way overdue because the rest of mine were seven pounds and under at about thirty eight weeks. So I just think. I think that was way off. I just I think my pregnancy test didn't show me that. And I think also it was a blessing so I could actually birth with midwives because they would have transferred me. Mhmm. So, yeah. So that was the first one. I tore. They stitched me. Wasn't a big deal. Postpartum recovery was fine.
Speaker 3
Pretty, like, almost, like, average birth center experience.
Speaker 2
Right. Right. Yeah. That's exactly right. And so then right? It wasn't very long after he was born. Nursing came pretty easily.
Speaker 3
Nice.
Speaker 2
I used a nipple shield for, like, twenty four hours on one side, and he was a champion. So, so after he was born, I had listened to a podcast about unassisted birth. And the woman had had several children and basically went from, you know, hospital to home birth midwife to free birth. And, I was like, that's what we're gonna do. That's what we need to do. And I had my husband listen to it, and he was like, okay. I can see that, like, this is probably where we're gonna end up. Would it be okay to do one more in a birth center just to make sure it's okay. And so and we're pretty prayerful, so we prayed about it and I felt fine. I didn't feel I don't I don't think I didn't feel pressured to do the birth center again. I still felt comfortable with them. So anyway. So then my second Freddie he was born. And he was born three weeks early and I had had pre labor, which I hate the term pre labor because I think something's really going on. But pre labor for, several days. And so I had finally called the midwives pretty exhausted, and they said, just take a Benadryl so you can sleep. And I did, and then that's the night he was born. Woah. So I got, like, three hours of really hard sleep and then woke up and was like, okay. So I got up.
Speaker 3
Did that make you groggy?
Speaker 2
I thought it would, but no. I really thought it would. Yeah. So, so with Freddie, I had had the pre labor, and then we, We my mom had ended up coming because we thought it was happening so she was already there and stayed with Cedric our my oldest and we went into the birth center. He was born his birth was eight hours total, fast pretty easy, came out easy. And I think, I didn't tear. And the only thing the water again didn't help me, the bathtub. But they had had a new midwife in, because at that point, they were they're just the, like, apprentice midwives. Right? So she came in, and I was naked, and in the bath, and totally moaning in the zone, and look up and see her, and was, like, okay. And then she left, and then my regular midwife comes in. She's like, I did not realize you didn't know her. I thought you had had at least one appointment with her. Do you want her to leave? It's totally fine to say yes. But I, like, in the moment, you know, I was pretty far, like, maybe not quite to transition, but pretty much there. And so I was like, you know, she's seen me naked, whatever. Totally wrong. And for anyone listening, if you don't know the birth attendant, tell him to leave because it's seared into my memory. Being on the birth stool, her being down there and just looking at me, making these sounds, pushing my baby out. And it was just not, it was just not ideal, right?
Speaker 3
It's just not comfortable. No. And that's the thing, like, with I mean, with you know, as women with vaginas who go see doctors or midwives, you know, or whatever. I mean, it is We are trained our whole life to essentially be okay with being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
You know? I mean, how awkward is it to be on your back Right. And have a stranger put a speculum inside of you? Right. It's really quite frankly, it's horrible.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Even if it's done respectfully, you know? You do not know this person and we have to override the part of us that's like, oh, you know? Right. We believe that we have to override it anyway. Of course, we actually don't. And so I'm glad you're putting that out because, of course, anyone at a hospital, you know, birthing at choosing a month
Speaker 2
at a
Speaker 3
hospital is not gonna know probably anybody there.
Speaker 2
And that's and then I was thinking if even the women that go in and two hours later have a shift change, they have brand new nurses come in. They and I just found out, for some reason, in all of my reading, this has I don't know if it's just never stuck. I didn't realize women can't be naked in the hospital, and they're in their gowns. I'm like, that would have been horrible. So, like, you can't stand there and be naked and
Speaker 3
You can in a lot of hospitals. I've been to Oh, good. Yeah. But I but I've also
Speaker 2
Maybe just not those. Some Yeah.
Speaker 3
I'm sure there's a mixture, but but there's also I've seen plenty of people put the gown on a naked woman. Right. You know, implying, like, modesty. Right. But I've also seen women just take
Speaker 2
it off.
Speaker 3
But, yes, it is it is the expectation is that you are going to wear a disgusting hospital gown.
Speaker 2
Right. Right. Anyways, so At the same well, yeah. But it also at the same time, like, in our society, we also have that push of, like, this is my body. I can show whatever part I want. But in the birth setting, it's really up to the woman. I mean, it is in every setting, but it's it's a lot different to have, like, when you're bawling and, you know, in the middle of everything
Speaker 3
to not I think you can show whatever you want if it's sexualized. I think that's acceptable. Like, you can wear the short shorts or the big cleavage Right. Tops, but I don't think when it's from a space yeah. From a space of, like, the wild woman and the power and the the rawness, and it's quite frankly I mean, it's not all what's I wanna I wanna say it's not all beautiful. It is all beautiful, but, you know, it also is intense. Raw. Yeah. Raw. Yes. Intense. And maybe you are throwing up and maybe there are fluids coming out of you or, or poop
Speaker 2
or,
Speaker 3
and that's, that's really uncomfortable.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But at the same time, I think like in our society, we have that. I agree like that. You can be very sexual, but in the birth setting, I think we can take that in to the birth setting and not realize that if we don't know the people there, it's really uncomfortable and you come out of it going, woah, all those people just saw me pooping and peeing and having fluid and blood and, you know, snot and everything coming out of me in this really vulnerable time when I just wanted my husband to see that part. No one else needed to see it. -So -It's like forced -Like forced
Speaker 3
It's like forced intimacy, but -Right.
Speaker 2
But you don't know them.
Speaker 3
And it's not even real intimacy, especially because the team isn't really participating in your rawness, you know, whereas with a with a home birth or with a wonderful midwife or the, you know, the right birthing team in home, it can be quite intimate, you know. And I mean, I've gotten into showers with with my women and Right. You know, I've gotten quite intimate with the gloves from the, you know, thighs. But, you know, if everyone's in scrubs and they're just charting and, you know, but you're like this naked wild woman. Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's
Speaker 3
totally uneven playing field, which is way too it's vulnerable, but in a bad way, not in a Right. Beautiful way. Anyway, so okay. So you're you're there. There's a stranger midwife now between your legs.
Speaker 2
Yeah. She was on the side, so my regular midwife was there. She was wiping blood off of my thighs and doing all the wonderful things she did. And so then I had him, and again, the placenta was born, like, several minutes later. It just came right out after him. And, we since we weren't able well, weren't able to to lay cord clamping with Cedric, we did with him, and it was on for, quite a long time. And I thought about doing Lotus Birthed. Just didn't I just didn't feel fully invested in that. So it was a I don't remember how long. It was quite a while after, and he didn't seem to know. You know, it was like nothing's going on. So we just cut it and, we're there for, like, maybe an hour or two. It was really quick after we just wanted to get home. So we went home. And then right after that, those midwives so Idaho began licensing midwives. And and placed pretty some stupid restrictions on them and then those midwives. There was one client that had a not an ideal birth situation. Her baby died and they she basically went after the midwives. And so they, ended up having to close and they don't practice anymore. Obviously, they lost their licenses because they were finally licensed. So it, like, all culminated and it really felt, intentional, I guess, in a way. Like, it just all that the timing of it felt too weird. So that happened. And then, and so that kind of pushed me a little bit more to like, okay, the next one's gonna be free birth. And so I had ovulated, not had a period, and got pregnant, because I was still nursing. So Freddie was nursing. He stopped nursing. And I remember thinking, like, really, like, right after the next day, I wonder if we just conceived a baby. And I was like, no. Because he went back to nursing. And so then I was pregnant. So I knew exactly when basically when she was gonna come and she came early. So we had I guess I should say during all the births, I read a ton of positive birth stories. Anna May's books, obviously. But with Eloise, we just knew we were going to do it alone, especially because our midwives were gone. And the other main midwife had decided to homeschool her daughter. So she quit being midwife at that time. And so it was like, okay, well, I don't, I didn't feel good about the ones in town. And, I felt really confident that we, that I could do it. And so,
Speaker 3
so did you free birth from lack of options or did you free birth? No. Because that's what you would've chosen.
Speaker 2
No. Yeah. And so, and actually, I guess when we, so we were consider, we were really pretty sure about this. We went and had one appointment with the midwives to see, and that's when I found out that our main midwife was leaving. And so I was, I felt like it was more of just a confirmation, like, this is the right time. And, so I had, yeah, one appointment, we told them what we were gonna be planning. They were they had some questions, but they were really open minded, I think, as far as midwives go and doctors especially. And they so I have the RH negative blood type, and so they had even offered they showed Jordan how to do, to take the cord blood so that we could get it tested for the baby and, like, that we could just drop it off and they have, you know, a drop box in their birth center, so we could just drop it off. They'd have their lab run it for us, and they'd let us know what the baby was. And I wasn't gonna get the RhoGAM shot, but I wanted to know for their sake in the future. And I didn't know when they'd ever get their blood tested. Mhmm. So, so yeah. And they gave us the supplies for that too. So, like, it was really I think as awesome as midwives can be about choose having a client go to a free birth. And I at that time, I think also it was significant for me was we changed to, like, a whole food plant based diet. Mhmm. It was the best pregnancy I had, and I felt good. I did yoga. I did a lot of meditation. So it just, like, everything kind of fell into place. I we we had both well, I had read the Heart and Hands book the mid midwives used, and kind of, you know, tab certain pages for Jordan to go back through to make sure he knew certain things. And
Speaker 3
And how was how was he feeling in prep? Because he had done the compromise Yeah. Birth to birth, and now it's on. Right. What was his level of anxiety or support, or where did he fall?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think he was all in. He was pretty awesome. Again, we prayed about it. So it was like, this is what we both know we're supposed to do. Let's research what we're supposed to research and be prepared. So we've done our part, and then it should just go. And if we transfer, then we transfer. But we've done, you know, it's not for lack of knowledge or Or
Speaker 3
the rest is up to God at some point. Right. Like, you can only do so much in any setting.
Speaker 2
Right. And he had so he's really organized and likes his chart. So he did do like, he did my prenatals, but it was really I mean, at the at night before bed. And so that look like? Me laying down on the bed, and, he did the fundal height, and he did he'd learned how to do blood pressure. He took my pulse, which I think my blood pressure was even lower with my husband taking it. It was just like this, calm, you know, and right before bed. So it was all easy. I did do my weight, and I think and I wasn't as nervous with him because it didn't matter.
Speaker 3
And how was your weight gain?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So with both the girls, whole food plant based diet, for the most part. And I gained, like, twenty eight pounds with both of them Wow. Just about. So it was a lot less, and I felt a lot better. Mhmm. I think it wasn't necessarily I don't really care that I gained less. If I gained fifty and felt as great, fine. But Of course. I did notice that not having as much swelling, and I didn't have swelling with the girls very much at all and just all worked better. Yeah. So he and so he had put that on the chart. So and that was more for, like, if I did have to transfer, they could look and see what my normal was. And that was you know, obviously, we didn't need it, but we didn't know at the time if we would need it. So, and it was it didn't seem like a huge, like, intervention to me to have my husband do that.
Speaker 3
No. It can be really cute.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So okay. So take me to the birth.
Speaker 2
So she I had had pre labor for a couple of weeks with her, and, we I'd taken the kids to this harvest festival, and we had done this tractor ride. And the it was pretty bumpy, and I noticed the contractions kicked up right after that. And so they just kinda were steady all day the rest of the afternoon and evening, and I went to bed thinking maybe I'll wake up at, like, you know, one or something and have her. But, so I did wake up at one. They were stronger, and I went downstairs and did I walked up the stairs a few times just to make sure it wasn't gonna just go away. Because sometimes when you, you know, pre labor, you get up, they just stop. So I was like, maybe I can go back to bed. And then I just, sang downstairs quietly because everyone was asleep upstairs and walked around in the dark. And at about four, I went back up and Jordan woke him up and told him. And so we got my dad and stepmom to come over to get the boys. Mhmm. And, then I just stayed upstairs the rest of the time. And we had laid, like, a dollar store shower curtain on the ground and we did have, so we did buy a couple of like birth, supplies. So we had a few of the bigger pads to catch some of the water and blood and, and then the shower curtain. And we had, I had bought this random bucket at the dollar store to catch the placenta in. And, we did buy. Like we had random things like we did get the, oh, shoot. I can't remember the name now. The suction not the bulb section or but the one that's Like, the Frida one. You that you suck into, and then it sucks out the The the the
Speaker 3
the the the the the the the
Speaker 2
the the. Yeah. So we have that and, like, we had real cord blood scissors and just random things that never got used, but we just thought, well, they're here just in case. And, you know, maybe some date someone will need to use them in our storage. I don't know. So, I
Speaker 3
mean, I mean, you know That's part of what's fun about free birthing is you get to decide and assess what stuff you want, and it's different for anybody. Like, a deleted it hasn't even occurred to me, you know. Right. But for you, it did, you know. And that's Right. It can be I mean, maybe for someone, that could be stressful. But I think for a lot of women, it's kind of fun to be, like, what is the things that might feel good for me to have? And Yeah. And also what are things that might be triggering for me to have around that I have no desire to look at? And it's so different for everybody.
Speaker 2
So Right. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And and we yeah. It really I don't think we had those. It wasn't really based on fear. Honestly, I think it was more like I just didn't want blood on my carpet. So, like, that was the main thing. And I remember thinking, like, because the the kit that we bought was a home birth kit, and so it had a bunch of things that you just I knew we weren't gonna need, like iodine or, you know, random things. So it was like Gloves. Gloves. Yeah. So, so I mainly labored up there. I took a bath for a little bit, and that was when, like, I had mentioned to you that I really did feel my ancestors there. And I remember so Jordan actually has a great grandma that was a midwife. And I remember, like, sitting or being in the bathtub crying, which usually meant I was getting closer to the end. And I remember feeling, like, just feeling someone there, like, a very womanly, nice feeling. And, I don't know if it I think it was after I got out of the bath and Jordan said, you know, I think grandma Blader was sitting in there with you. And I just was like, I know she was. That was her. And so it was just this nice, like I felt so supported and so I felt more supported in that moment than the previous two births. And she isn't even physical, you know? So Well, that's why I love
Speaker 3
I love not using the term unassisted.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
You know? Because how how assisted you were in that, you know, in that scene by your ancestors is so beautiful.
Speaker 2
There's so much more power with them than I think we realize. And so that, like, kind of buoyed me up and because Eloise's birth ended up being twenty four hours. So at this point, I was pretty tired. And so we I sat we sat on the bed, and Jordan was behind me, and I just, like, breathed into him for a few contract hard contractions and, ended up getting on the, like, the corner edge of the bed with a bunch of pillows and just laid on the pillows with my hips, you know, swaying my hips. And he kept putting warm cloths on my back because I really just don't like being touched during labor. But that is, like the warm cloth was, like, totally soothing and I remember I just started balling again and that's how I knew I was in transition and I just I didn't it's not even a cry of pain. They just come and I really think crying's a huge release. And so Mhmm. I was releasing something that just needed to come out. And I remember at that point hearing, like, I remember hearing you're in transition. You're almost done. Mhmm. And I was like, okay. And so not long after that, I really felt like I needed to get my leg up. So I put my leg I got to the edge of the bed and put my leg up on the edge of the bed, and right then my water just broke. And, kind of I think I may have I don't even no. I didn't even push. It was just more like I my body moved down and so everything moved down with it. It wasn't like I was pushing anything. And then I got I for some reason, it you know, it's one of those you don't know why, but I just got down on my hands or on my knees, and I have my hands back behind me holding me up. And she like, I could feel her and I it was during a contraction. I just I and Jordan said, you know, he could see her head. And I said, is she gonna be like, is her head gonna be out on the next contraction? And he was like, no, but, you know, you're doing really good. I don't know why I asked and he obviously didn't know.
Speaker 3
Right. I know. It's funny though.
Speaker 2
So funny. And so I was, like, thinking nope. Her head's coming out. And so I just, on that contraction, pushed. Her head was out. And this was, the first birth where I actually felt her rotate. I'd never felt the baby move. And she rotated, and that next contraction, she, you know, just sprung out. And he was like, woah. K. Woah. There she is.
Speaker 3
Cool.
Speaker 2
There's and, you know, I was holding myself back behind me with the support, so there was no way I could have reached. There was just no way to configure that to catch her. And so she she I immediately, you know, he just grabs her and hands her up to me. And so I just sat there on my knees, and she immediately latched. I mean, I guess she probably made a sound or something because we weren't worried about breathing, but she just I mean, it was almost instantly. And I thought this was like the kangaroo video I'd seen on YouTube, you know? It was like, woah, they do just latch right away. And then my placenta took for me what seemed like a while since the other two were, like, fifteen, twenty minutes. And so I had an Angelica tincture and I had also had Shepherd's purse just in case of hemorrhage or something. And so but I took the angelica, like, one dropper full under my tongue, and it was within, like, a minute or two, and it was, oh, there it is. And it was ready to come out. But I didn't I hadn't felt the, like, urge to push it out before that point. And at that point, I was so tired. And I was, like, leaning on the edge of the bed, just holding her while she just kept nursing. And I was, like, I just need to lay down. So it wasn't really, like, we're worried about the length of time. I just was tired Mhmm. And needed to be done with that so I could lay down and just Yeah. So and yeah. So then Jordan cleaned everything up. You know? It was all cut basically on the shower curtain. So he just folded it up, and, you know, he had read in the Heart and Hands and also we had talked to the midwives about the placenta. He was kind of he he was I think one of his main main things that he was worried about was making sure that all the placenta came out Mhmm. So that we didn't have a problem with that later. So he was really diligent about checking it and
Speaker 3
Nice.
Speaker 2
You know, making sure all of that had the three vessels, all of that, and then cleaned everything up. And with both the girls, we did placenta encapsulation after, and that was amazing. The the afterpains with Eloise were the were were really bad, and I hadn't I hadn't noticed them with my first. The second one, I noticed them a little bit. The third one, it was I was crying through them because they were so painful. And I just didn't I just didn't put that together that it would be so hard.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So we did something different with Marie after. But, yeah, it was really peaceful. So we didn't really we didn't tell anyone. You know? No. And honestly, no one asked us anything. They didn't ask what time the midwives got there. They didn't ask anything. So we just really,
Speaker 3
you know, just What about the what about your your parents or family that came and got the boys? No. They didn't know? No. Woah.
Speaker 2
No one knew. In fact, some may find out with this. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right?
Speaker 2
No. Here you go. Yeah. I just didn't like I said at the very beginning, I just did not want anyone's fear. Totally. And,
Speaker 3
It's no one's business.
Speaker 2
And mistrust. Yeah. A mistrust of me and my body and Jordan. Like, we are adults and made Mhmm. This decision. And so I and I felt really much more of, like, a sacred experience. So I just don't wanna bring any of it. Even after, I just felt really none of your business. And so even people
Speaker 3
outside You got lucky that no one specifically asked. That's kind of unusual.
Speaker 2
I'm guessing I was putting out the, like, don't even
Speaker 3
go there.
Speaker 2
And so, like, with You already
Speaker 3
had two midwife assisted births.
Speaker 2
So Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's like an equal assumption versus, like, with your first or yeah.
Speaker 2
Right. And Awesome. And that we had just said, oh, we're doing a home birth. Mhmm. You know? And I'm sure there were random people that were more acquaintances that asked with a midwife, oh, yeah. You know, I'm not gonna sit here and tell you what no and Right. Get into that debate with you. I don't care to do that. Well, I appreciate So, yeah, they shouldn't know. Right?
Speaker 3
I appreciate you pointing that out because I, you know, I I see a lot of women struggle with that boundary and, you know, feeling like they have to fight in their pregnancy and Right. And that this information is, for some reason, owed to anybody.
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. Anybody at all. And, like, you
Speaker 3
know, you know, I think for some people, it might sound kind of crazy, but I say it all the time. Like, yeah, lie to your mom. Lie to your dad. Like, who it doesn't matter who it is. This is Yeah. Where you're going to birth your baby with you and your partner and and that, you know, like, you don't you don't tell people, you know, what room you have the most sex in. You know? Like, it's none of anyone's business unless you want to share that.
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah, and there were a select few that did know, but and they were the ones that I knew were not judging and thought, you know, and trusted, like, our intuition, trusted our like, our answers to prayers. And so, like, I just didn't wanna bring the negativity.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Those are the only people that deserve to know.
Speaker 2
I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 3
It is privileged information. And and, honestly, anything about you is privileged information.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
You know? I mean, we're just, again, like, we're just so trained to not have boundaries as women just to give everything away and that, like, everything's owed to everybody, you know? And it's it's it's not like that or it doesn't have to be like that. So Yeah.
Speaker 2
I'm glad you touched on that. You know, and there are some consequences, you know, to not being able to for not feeling like I could really share that and not and that also that I didn't want to, you know, you don't get to share every moment of the birth with Mhmm. People. And I and I was actually pretty surprised at how little people really asked after. And I thought, well, maybe with the last I was just really open. And so it invited more conversation. But after this, you know, I was just we were totally flying high in our own world, and I was like, no one's gonna break this. It's just like, we I have done something totally awesome Mhmm. With my husband, and our baby is so awesome and perfect. It didn't it was just no one else mattered, I guess.
Speaker 3
I hope anyone listening, you know, can can hear that and feel that. And if they're struggling with this, you know, topic, like, give yourself that, you know, please.
Speaker 1
Because it is it. Yeah.
Speaker 3
If you know that your environment could harm, you know, your Right. Experience, you know, protect that
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
So fiercely.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And Jordan was really he's way more introverted than I am, and so he already is like, we don't need to talk about this to anyone. This was our birth experience.
Speaker 3
He's like, we don't even need to talk at all.
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3
That's how my husband is. He's like, yes. Ignore everybody. I'm like, but that's just what you do. Right. Yeah. Okay. So let's let's let's pivot to your last baby.
Speaker 2
So, Marie. So, so again had a really pretty good pregnancy. Everything was fine. I think our prenatals were You
Speaker 3
just need to Sorry.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And oh, so I actually yeah. I had been breastfeeding still and didn't even I have no idea when I ovulated, I didn't get a period. She just was like there and the the first I should say the first two the boys we knew exactly when they're coming obviously with Eloise, I knew when she was conceived, I we weren't quite like okay, we're ready but at the same time like I hadn't really thought we were I was going to so I kinda thought that covered it. She came and so Marie was like hello, world. You're supposed to have me now. Yeah. And I don't even I really don't know. So we kind of guessed on about when she would be born, which was sometime in May. And, I, you know, I think we made, like, a pretty good guess based on sexual activity or something. But, so sometime in May and had a good pregnancy. Again didn't tell anyone and we I think the prenatal checks random were way more random that time I don't they weren't as often and I had been through I started having pre labor several weeks before and it really I really one hand you know for all the people who wanna roll their eyes. I truly believe I went through every stage of labor in the pre labor I had I had the random early labor pains. I had some really intense active labor. And then one night I was laying on the couch and I just, they, it was like an overwhelming feeling and I got, I felt sick to my stomach, thought I was gonna throw up. And so I was like, I think something's really happening. And so Jordan looks at at the purple line and he's like, you're, like, dilated all the way. And I was like, what? No way. So I'm like, okay. Because I was actually feeling like, woah. This is like that's awesome. She's just gonna come out. And, and I had done so I do energy work. And so I had done a lot of clearing of, like, generational thought patterns and negative, like, associations with birth on my family line. And so I knew and, like, I knew pain didn't need to hurt, or birth didn't need to hurt. There didn't need to be pain in it. It could just go smoothly. And so I was like, well, wow. Like, my energy work is awesome. I'm really, you know, thinking it's great. So I was in the bath, like, I felt it, like, woah. And then it just stopped. Mhmm. It was like it all flows back up, and I was like, what just happened that And
Speaker 3
did the line go away?
Speaker 2
Yep. The line went
Speaker 3
away. Crazy.
Speaker 2
It was so weird. And so I
Speaker 3
Birth is so crazy.
Speaker 2
I know. So then a whole week basically went by and, had kind of, I think, went back to, like, Braxton Hicks contractions. I was like, this is so bizarre. And then, I woke up at like three in the morning and thought okay something's going on. This is pretty intense, but it wasn't intense painful like it used to be and so I was like well. Yeah. I don't know. I just was like, maybe something's going on. So I told Jordan. He was like, okay. And so we're, like, moving around. And a little while later, he checks in. He's like, the purple line's, like, almost all the way up. And I was like, that's not possible. Like, I am I there's no way I can be in transition. And he was like, you know that this doesn't have to be painful. It's just going to be like, you've cleared it all. So you it's it's just gonna be nice. And I was like, okay. And so her birth was three hours long. And it was like I was talking through, through almost the whole, you know, three hours. And then I got in the bathroom because I had just felt pretty early on I needed that. That's where she was going to be born and it felt really safe and like it I I really like the term cave, like it felt like a cave, like I just felt protected. And it got really intense. I, like, sat down and peed and I was like, woah, here she is, stood up and, but I couldn't hold. I, like, had no strength to pull. It was weird. Like, I didn't have pain, but it was like I had no strength. And so Jordan, actually, I was like, you have to get down so I can lean on you. Mhmm. It was like I couldn't even walk. And so he got down on all fours, and I just sat there through a few contractions and just rested on him. And the only pain during the whole thing was when she crowned and that, you know, the normal ring of fire was there. And so I was like and I could just feel, woah. She's like she was ready to come when she was conceived. She was just like, she her head came out and Jordan's like, can you are you gonna capture? And I said, I don't think I can't. Like, I just physically didn't feel like I had the strength. I said, I don't think I can. He's like, then you're gonna have like, on your next contraction, you're just gonna have to let me turn. You're gonna have to, like, hold on to the Mhmm. Towel rack or something. And I said, okay. So the next I felt her turn. Mhmm. Next contraction, she slid out real faster than Eloise into his hands and she was screaming. She screamed for gosh. It had to have been, like, an hour. Woah. Yeah. She just screamed. Cry. Yeah. But she's the calmest. She's so calm and she really I think she was really here to heal us and and really here to heal, like, me and my birth experiences and to heal, like, going forward. Like, I think she's, like, partially paved the way for the two of them to have awesome birth experiences if they want them. And then the placenta was born again at, like, I I think it was within, like, twenty minutes. It was really fast. And we just I I did lead and, you know, I'm not sure if it was hemorrhaging, but I did have I don't know if anyone who's listening has heard of shock tea, basically, raspberry leaf tea, honey, and cayenne. So I had that and I was chugging that. It tastes really good in labor. It sounds disgusting, but it's really refreshing. So I was just kinda chugging that and stop.
Speaker 3
Pause there for a second. What do you mean you don't know if you hemorrhage? Like
Speaker 2
It was a lot of blood. But But I but I
Speaker 3
I would say hemorrhage is more about your lack of ability to deal with that loss of blood. Right. You know? Because Yeah.
Speaker 2
And so that's why I'm, like, I'm not sure if it was.
Speaker 3
Well, like, were you
Speaker 2
It was quite a bit.
Speaker 3
And shaking and pale? And, like, did you have all the hemorrhage?
Speaker 2
I think I shook shook a little bit, but, but, like, immediately after she came out and we could just see, you know, and it wasn't indicative of the other three births, like, how much blood was coming out and or not indicative is not the right word, but it wasn't as much as the other three had been. And so I and I remember both of us thinking, like, that's quite a bit of blood. And I just instinctively just grabbed the tea and So you just started drinking that.
Speaker 3
You just had that tea nearby?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'd had it made. I mean, I was just kinda making one, like, every week just, like, a few weeks before birth just to make sure I had it in the fridge and just, like, a quart thing of it. So I could just so I drank the whole quart. It didn't take that long for the bleeding to like get less but and so and because we're in the bathroom, we hadn't laid anything down so it's kinda. Splattered. Yeah. But then she finally latched after, like, an hour of yelling. And, yeah, it took Jordan a little while with that one to clean up. And he said like, I had asked him if we had another one, what is there anything you would do different? And he was like, if there's someone that can just come and clean up so I can lay down with you and the baby, that would be awesome. And I was like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 3
Also put that shower curtain down again so that he could see the nice little table cloth hold.
Speaker 2
K. Yeah. And so our other the, my oldest had heard me making sounds in the bathroom and he came in and he was like, what's going on? Jordan's like, she's gonna have the baby. And I was like, I'm gonna have the baby. And so we're like, just go lay back in bed. And cause I didn't, I just didn't want them sitting there watching at me. It was just more eyes on me, and I just didn't like that. And so but as soon as they heard her cry, all three are in the bathroom. And, you know, it was like, we have a little girl, and it was beautiful. And then my dad and stepmom ended up taking them for a couple of nights. And that was the best at, like, you know, three kids is a lot, and when you have a newborn, it's a lot. And so they brought him over once for a little bit just to see everyone and you know? But it was I think we definitely needed the time with Marie and time where we didn't have to talk to anyone
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's nice.
Speaker 2
Of responsibility. Totally. So yeah. And hopefully, some women will not be afraid to just say, please take them for at least one night or something because you just don't ever get time alone really again. And, I mean, sometimes they randomly go and do things, but, you know, we're together all the time. And so I'm never gonna get those few days back. And I did. So and I with her, so I did, because I was really worried about the afterpains being painful. I did get the after ease tincture. And that was the best idea I had. It works miracles. I didn't feel like I could feel my uterus contracting. No pain. It ran out, like, a day too soon. But at that point, they weren't as bad. Right.
Speaker 3
So it
Speaker 2
was manageable. But I was like, oh, I needed just, like, one ounce more. Mhmm. But yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I've heard that stuff is amazing.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And they were all so, you know, each birth is different and I really feel like each birth really to me, I can, like, see their births reflected in their personalities. And I know birth is really really important energetically and spiritually and physically and it's it really is the responsibility of the mother who is as tuned in than anyone more tuned in than anyone else to pay attention to what that baby needs because, you know, if we got pregnant again and I felt a strong desire that we needed a midwife, we would do that. But Of course. I don't but I think both of my girls needed free birth. I think they needed to be brought into the world in such a beautiful way to know that the world is beautiful, and it is a safe place for them to be. And, like, it's like a safe landing in our house that they can come to and just, like, I don't know, it's set up it just set up a really peaceful lifestyle for us. Mhmm. You know? It also helped me feel really empowered about we homeschool, but we als we actually unschool. And so it just, like, it helped me feel really empowered. Like, I I totally know what these kids need. -Mm -I don't need society to tell me what they need. And, yeah, it really I think birth can obviously play a major role in women's lives, and they don't realize how big of a moment going to be. It's not
Speaker 3
that it can. It one hundred percent does. Yeah. And, you know, every whatever birth you have and however you do it sets the foundation.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
It just does, you know? And that doesn't that doesn't mean that if there's problems or trauma, you can't overcome that, but that's always gonna be a part of
Speaker 1
the story. It just is. Right.
Speaker 3
Things are what they are.
Speaker 2
It is. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well
Speaker 2
and I would say you can heal from traumatic birth experiences, and you can have the memory and no longer feel the emotional Mhmm. Pain of it, but it does it's still there. It shapes.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
It shape and it really, I think, does shape how you view yourself, what responsibility you're taking for yourself and for your babies. And if you choose to just do the normal, conveyor belt of pregnancy and birth, it's just you're on that path for life. It really feel it's I think doing you know even midwife assisted birth is different than than the mainstream. And it just you start realizing, wow. I have so many choices, so many options, and it doesn't stop at birth. It it goes beyond birth. You know? I can choose to
Speaker 3
Pandora's box. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. I can choose to wear my baby. I can choose to decline all testing on them. I can, you know, breastfeed for five years. I can do all these really abnormal things that are really normal everywhere else in the world.
Speaker 3
And it's applied it's applied beyond just our children. It's applied to us, you know, the way that we cultivate relationships, the boundaries we set, the information we share, how we dress, where we move, you know, how our jobs may change. Like, it's it it doesn't end. It's it's an entire way of life. You know, I love that quote. A woman births the way she lives. And especially with, like, four births like you, it's so cool how it changes, you know, and how things are just blossoming and constantly changing, you know, as you birth and as you live. Right. It's just so beautiful.
Speaker 2
And I would, there was one thing, actually, if I can squeeze it in Yeah. For, in Eloise's birth. And I had written a note about this. I don't know why I forgot. But, during her labor, my contractions never got closer than about five minutes apart the entire labor, which is not what you read normal birth should be. And, I remember Jordan had told me a couple of the you know, like, I'd asked, like, how close are they? And then, like, I think once, maybe, or twice. And then I was like, don't tell me anymore. Even if I ask, don't tell me because and and I'm glad because if he had told me, it totally would have thrown me off. I would have been thinking I was way farther back. So I think listening, anyone listening during birth, you have the option to to change everything and or to change one thing or to tell that birth attendant you don't know to just just go away and be mad at your midwife for even asking if if you wanted them to go away and and just saying, you know, instead of them just apologizing and making them leave. Mhmm. There's just yeah. You have the power to change your birth outcome every moment until they're born. So Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Beautiful. Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 2
Thank you. They're awesome stories. Thanks. They felt awesome.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. It's inspiring. Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
