Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. It's Emily and Yolanda. Hey. We wanna tell you about our amazing new course because we just launched our presale.
Speaker 2
That's right. I'm Yolanda, the director of the Free Birth Society School, and I'm thrilled to tell you about the very first course we're offering, Free Birth Society's complete guide to free birth. If you're interested in birthing outside the system but you don't know where to start, or you're encountering resistance or fear in your own mind or in your community, or even if you just wanna make sure you have all your ducks in a row, this course is for you.
Speaker 1
Free Birth Society's complete guide to free birth really is incredibly comprehensive. We cover everything from how to talk to friends and family, how to navigate your choices with a nervous partner, how to get a birth certificate, what prenatal care could look like when no one else is managing you, how to identify real complications and emergencies, and let's get real. We go deep into unlearning the myths about birth and our culture using evidence based information to relearn what normal birth is and how to prepare for it.
Speaker 2
Our intention is for every course participant to emerge with the tools to approach their free birth with confidence and the knowledge to discern what safe, physiological birth looks like and in possession of the power to manifest the birth of your dreams.
Speaker 1
What's also really cool is that we offer long term support, live group coaching, options for one on one coaching, and you will get lifetime access to the course material.
Speaker 2
We even have quizzes and worksheets, meditations, hypno affirmation tracks, and all sorts of unique and helpful custom tailored birth prep for your free birth.
Speaker 1
This course is for the woman who wants to birth in power on her own terms. We have created this course especially for you because you're standing in the very place Yolanda and I both were when we recognized that hospital birth or any form of birth in captivity just wasn't our path.
Speaker 2
So head over to our gorgeous new website, free birth society dot com, to learn more and to sign up for the course that will quite literally change your life.
Speaker 1
Finally, our first breach episode, and a surprise breach no less. Today, we are joined by Carrie from Nebraska, who after her first birth in the hospital was told that she was unlikely to be able to have another vaginal birth. Carrie tells us her incredible tale of carrying past forty two weeks, birthing her daughter who was a surprise breech, and how her cord was wrapped three times around her neck.
Speaker 3
I had my oldest in twenty twelve and I was young but not super young and I wasn't informed at all. I what I thought I was doing for research was baby center and my doctor and the people around me who said, oh, you have to have an epidural, you know, who does it without that? And so, I, went through my pregnancy just doing whatever my doctor said. And, at his birth I didn't even have a birth plan. I, kind of just went in thinking, okay, they're gonna deliver the baby for me. They'll tell me what to do. Wow. And it was full of interventions. I had an epidural, and that led to Pitocin. And, then I had an episiotomy that I didn't consent to. She didn't even tell me she was doing it. Then she suctioned him out and finally he was born. But in the meantime, it was pretty traumatic. They threw the oxygen on me and, were worried about bleeding. And afterwards, my doctor tells me, oh, you're so lucky that you didn't have to have a c section. The baby wouldn't have come out if I, you know, didn't give you an episiotomy and suck him out. And, then she said, you will never deliver a baby vaginally bigger than him. Wow. And he was, like, six pounds. Wow.
Speaker 1
What a statement. And
Speaker 3
and it was kinda crazy because I'm thinking, I'm not a small woman by any means. I'm not petite. And so I asked her why, and she said, you have a very small pelvis, and you just won't be able to deliver a bigger baby. So I walked away from there thinking, oh, my gosh, she saved my baby's life. She saved my life. And Right. I can never have another baby like that. Ugh. And so, I thought I had, like, this miracle thing. Right. Well, through my journey of motherhood with him, I kind of became more natural minded, I guess, crunchy, whatever you wanna call it. And, yeah, I started educating myself, researching on, you know, all the decisions I would be making. And, then my husband and I actually got married. We weren't married when my oldest was born. And we started planning our second baby. And I really dove into the research. And I decided I wanted to have an unmedicated birth. So, I started looking into my birth options in Nebraska. And I got really discouraged because not only do I live in Nebraska where, there aren't a lot of midwives, there aren't a lot of home births that I knew of, but I also live in central Nebraska, so I'm three hours from Omaha, which is the big city where there was a birth center. And so I continued to see the doctor that I saw with my oldest. And as I started to refuse things like, the quad screen and, the DTaP vaccine, she was kind of treated me terrible about it. Mhmm. When I asked for an alternative to the glucose test, she said, well, we don't have one. I'll just put you refused it. And I was kind of in that transition mode where I wasn't ready to completely not have any care, but I was just kind of lost. Like, why am I being treated so terrible? So I actually made a Facebook post. I thought I was frustrated. And, a friend of mine that lives in Dallas, Texas who has had home birth said, I know of a doula close to you. Let me get you in touch. And, I got in touch with her, and she said, well, why are you continuing to see this doctor? Why are you going to birth with her? And it just kinda clicked in my head, like, why am I doing this?
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And so she told me about a midwife, a CNM, in a hospital that's an hour and a half away. So I made an appointment with her, and I went, and I talked over everything, and I felt really good about things. She said, You don't wanna get the vaccine, don't get it. I support you. She said, I'll you know, I won't clean up the cord until you're ready. Those kind of things that were really important to me at the time. And so I felt really good about it, and, I went into his birth. And after his birth, I I thought it was amazing. I did it without medication. I refused everything down to the IV. They were really respectful of my wishes. I left it twenty four hours. Oh. And looking back, it's kinda funny because my doula had actually had a free birth, about a year prior to me meeting her. And I that was the first I had ever heard of free birth. I didn't know people did that. And, I always told her, oh, a home birth would be so amazing, but that's not for me. And I think mostly because I didn't trust myself, because my doctor told me I would never deliver a baby. Right. You'd imagine way bigger than my oldest. So when I met my, midwife, I told her that, and she kinda looked at me, and she said, I don't we're not gonna worry about that. She said, your bay body won't grow a baby bigger than you can birth.
Speaker 1
Oh.
Speaker 3
That would be very rare. And then my second son was born, and he was two pounds bigger than my oldest. And I kinda wanted to take a picture of him and send him to that doctor and say, see, look what I did.
Speaker 1
So how did that feel when you found out your baby was two pounds bigger? Like, how did that feel going against this story that you had believed for so long?
Speaker 3
I was in shock. I looked at my husband and I said, is the scale right? Do we need to re weigh him? And I just couldn't believe it. And I kept my mom was with me. She's been with me with all my births, and I kept telling her, I I can't believe he's so much bigger. And, you know, the doctor was wrong. And I just I felt so good about it. Mhmm. And, then my second son was fourteen months old when I got pregnant again. And at that point, I had come so much further in my journey. I all I could envision was a home birth. Mhmm. And I thought, how am I gonna make this happen? Because in Nebraska, there aren't options for midwives at at home births. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Meaning that
Speaker 3
CNN.
Speaker 1
Regulated midwifery is illegal.
Speaker 3
Yes. CNMs are written until the the law that it is prohibited that they attend home births. CPMs are not mentioned, but, in the past, the county attorney has tried to prosecute them when things, didn't go quite so smoothly with the birth they were at. And so most CNCPMs you find aren't interested in attending because they're they're scared. So, I actually had talked to my doula again, and I said, I I just don't know what to do. I I want a home birth so bad. I feel like if I'm forced to go to the hospital, I'm gonna run out in the cornfield behind my house and have this baby. I I can't go back to the hospital. And not because it wasn't a good experience, but because, I don't know, I just had this feeling that I wanted to be in charge. I didn't want anyone to touch my baby until I was ready.
Speaker 1
Well, Anne, you had already gotten a glimpse with your second birth. I mean, that sounds Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's a way better. Like a transition and a healing. And so, there was a small time where I didn't know what I was going to do. And then through talking to, some friends who have had home births and unassisted births and then my doula who at that point had had her second free birth, she kind of said, you know, just take a minute. You need to connect with yourself. Envision your birth. Who's there? What you know, what's happening? What makes it perfect? And as soon as I did that, I realized I'm at home. I don't need anyone else there.
Speaker 1
And
Speaker 3
I'm actually really I'm sad that the laws are the way they are in Nebraska for women birthing, but I'm really glad because I don't think I would have chosen free birth had I had other options. And, so I kind of got my mindset on that and I started watching free birth videos birth videos, and, I read some books. And then she actually added me to your free birth society page and group. And, that's ALL I COULD IMAGINE. THIS IS PERFECT FOR ME. AND I HAD PLANNED TO MAYBE STILL SEE Prenatal CARE WITH THE CNM I HAD WITH MY SECOND BIRTH. I THOUGHT, you know, if I might go see her for a few appointments, and I was unsure about an ultrasound that was something new I had never not done. Right. And, Well,
Speaker 1
it's kind of all new when all of a sudden you're the one in charge. And it it's even it's not like you have to go in and decline anything. You actually get to decide what you pull in. It's such a different, way of experiencing it.
Speaker 3
It was, and I kinda sat back for a minute thinking, okay. I get to decide all this. I get to decide if I want an appointment or, you know, if I wanna go in and ask if I can have the anatomy scan. And then I did some more research on that topic, and I decided not to. And I kind of talked to my husband. And because with my first and second births, he was a he played a huge role. He was very supportive. He was right there by me, and I needed him the whole time. So, I really wanted him to be comfortable with me staying home and free birthing also because I knew he would play a huge role. And right from the beginning, he said, you know, he said, don't worry about me. This is your birth. You need to decide what you want, and I'll support you no matter what that is.
Speaker 1
Good man.
Speaker 3
I'll do whatever I can. Yeah. So that was that was amazing. That made things so much easier. And so as I approached twenty weeks, I was feeling really good. And that was something that was different this time too. And my first two pregnancies, I had Hibrameca scravidarum. And it was bad, and I was so sick. And so that was another reason I thought I might want some appointments with the midwife, if I was so sick. But this pregnancy was different. I felt really good and I I just didn't feel the need to, make any appointments.
Speaker 1
Do you do you think that you did anything different to help you feel better this time?
Speaker 3
I did change the type of b vitamins I take. I, I thought my second pregnancy I was taking Methylfolate but I wasn't. The vitamin just said folate. I changed that and I, really worked on my gut health between my second son and my third pregnancy. We after my second son was born, we struggled so much with thrush and all sorts of things. And so I really worked on that in the meantime. And that's the only thing that I did different.
Speaker 1
Okay.
Speaker 3
And since then, I've read some correlation between, gut health and h pylori and the HG. Mhmm. And so I really wonder if if that had any effect, but, of course, I I don't know. Just correlation. Yeah. But, so about twenty weeks, I told my husband, you know, I don't think I don't think I really feel like I need to have an appointment, and I'm not I'm not gonna have any of the tests. I'm not gonna have the ultrasound or the blood test. And, you know, I can weigh myself at home if I want. I have a blood pressure. I can check my sugar. What you know, whatever I felt. And he said, that sounds perfect to me. You know, whatever whatever you think. And so I kinda just went through my pregnancy, and it was so peaceful. It felt so good to not be so stressed out about taking my other two kids to the doctor with me Mhmm. And, you know, making it to appointments and driving an hour and a half to those appointments. And, I my doula actually, came out, and we would just play around for fun and public publicate my stomach and do some fundal height and that kind of stuff just so we could both learn. We knew it wasn't anything, you know, clinical or medical. Sure. Just for fun. And that's just kinda how I did my whole pregnancy, and I felt so good about it. And as I got my birth tote ready and my space ready and decided what I wanted, I just felt so much peace. And I kind of felt sad because I thought, I just can't imagine if I could have done this with my first two births. Yeah. You know? And there was a little bit of grieving time there for not having that before. But, then I approached what my dates would be forty weeks. And with that was something with my first two, that was a big stressor. My first son was forty weeks, six days. And, of course, my doctor was by my forty one week appointment, she had scheduled my induction for that day. Yeah. And at that point, I I didn't know better than I would have been induced. But he came the day before. And then my second son, I he was forty one weeks, six days. And my midwife would have had to transfer my care at forty two weeks. And so I was so stressed out hoping that I went into labor, hoping that I Mhmm. You know, wouldn't have to refuse the induction and be transferred to an OB. And, of course, they wanted non stress tests and the ultrasounds to check the fluids. And it was not a happy time. I was so stressed out and just wanted him to come. And this time, I'm coming on forty weeks, and I thought, this feels amazing.
Speaker 1
Correct.
Speaker 3
Say about anyone saying anything to me about
Speaker 1
Well, nobody nobody ever talks about that part. You know, people think that, oh, they hire this licensed, you know, professional midwife, and they're they're a midwife, and they're gonna home birth. And that is as far as the discussion seems to go with most people and their midwives. Nobody talks about yeah. But if you're still pregnant at forty one weeks, which is very, very likely, especially for a primary birth, you're actually going to spend a week super stressed out, and you're gonna probably make sweeps, and you're gonna, you know, be going to the hospital for NSTs, and she's gonna be talking to you about castor oil induction, and you're gonna I mean, that is not what people know that they're signing up for with licensed midwifery. And of course, I'm not saying every single midwife does this, but it's a rare midwife who is licensed by the state who will also fudge the numbers and still attend a post forty two, you know, week birth. So Yeah.
Speaker 3
And that was something too looking back. I told my husband when I interviewed her, she said, you know, I won't push induction, that kind of thing. But then once I got to forty one weeks and I was getting closer to forty two, she was talking about castor oil and other what she called natural methods.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. No
Speaker 3
sense. No. We're not natural. Yeah. And, then at my last appointment before I went into labor, I actually had to see the OB she works for because she was gone. And he said, oh, as long as your test look good and you're fine, I'll let you go past forty two weeks, but you'll have to deliver with me. Mhmm. And Because
Speaker 1
of their licensing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I I left and I told my husband, I'm so glad he's gonna let me do that. Mhmm. And now thinking about that, I'm like, oh my gosh. So, but that was one thing she didn't tell me to begin with. Yeah. If you go to forty two weeks, I I can't be at your birth, and I didn't know that until two days before I was gonna be forty two weeks. Exactly.
Speaker 1
Oh, it's so stressful.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And it was February in Nebraska, so there was a snowstorm coming. And I kind of secretly hoped, oh, I hope we get snowed in and I go into labor and I can just have the baby here. But, so this time I'm approaching forty weeks, and I I just felt so good that I didn't have to worry about anything. And then I went forty one weeks, and I just had so much peace, and people kept asking me, aren't aren't you getting anxious? And I'm like, no. I feel so good. I I'm just so excited for my birth and I'm letting this baby do what it needs to do. And then I hit forty two weeks. And I thought, okay. I I got a little nervous just because, you know, of what I've always been told.
Speaker 1
Exactly.
Speaker 3
But I I knew I knew the facts. I knew that everything was gonna be okay. I knew she was okay and that she would come on her time. But it was a new area to tread, especially with not having someone telling me, Oh, I checked your baby and you're okay.
Speaker 1
Exactly.
Speaker 3
So it took a lot of turning into myself and trust and connecting with my baby and listening to her tell me, I'm okay. We've got this. It's gonna happen, you know, when it's time. And, you know, my husband said, so he said, we're just gonna, you know, wait this out till the baby comes. You don't feel the need to make an appointment and be seen. And I said, no. I I feel good. I know everything's okay. And he said, okay. We'll just wait. And we did, my due date that doesn't exist, but the date by the numbers was right after Christmas. And I kind of became a hermit. I skipped our family Christmas. Yeah. And I just I just wanted to be by myself. Yeah. And part of that was because where I live, I I only know other people who have had home births through groups on Facebook.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
It's just not extremely common here, especially not a free birth. And I was just in a space where I didn't want people asking me, you know, well, aren't you worried about this? Or you don't have a midwife? What does that mean? And so I just kind of avoided everyone, and I kept my peace. And, I woke up the morning of forty two weeks, and I was lea my fluids were leaking.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And so I thought, okay. You know, I know the facts about that too. I know this can be okay as long as there's no, you know, signs of infection, and I gotta stay hydrated. And I talked to my doula and my other friend that was coming for support, and, you know, they were so awesome encouraging me. And, I just stayed hydrated, and I felt good, and I waited. And I waited
Speaker 1
There's also there's also no reason to think, not that you did, just just for anyone listening who's still, like, learning about this. There's no reason to think you're gonna get an infection. You know, we we already know that the infections almost always come from multiple vaginal exams. You know, if the
Speaker 3
Yes.
Speaker 1
The the bacteria outside of the vagina gets literally placed up into the uterus via a gloved hand. You know? So it's it's just the whole conversation about infection at home. We almost never see that happen. And we see infections, you know, with women with open waters in the hospital very commonly. So, yeah, I'm glad that you you knew that.
Speaker 3
That was one thing that because my mom has always been a big part of my births, and she's she's such a huge supporter. And even though she had never she had never known someone to who had a home birth, let alone a free birth, She was so supportive through my whole pregnancy, my unassisted pregnancy. And, you know, I so I told her, well, my waters are leaking, and I'm staying hydrated. And she asked about the infection.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Because, you know, she only knew what she'd always been told. True. And I told her, I said, I haven't had any vaginal checks. I haven't been anywhere, you know, to introduce anything. And so I said, that's not even a concern of mine. I mean, if I started feeling sick, obviously, I would've thought something. But so I just kept waiting, and I actually, around thirty weeks, thought she might come before my forty week date. And that joke's on me.
Speaker 2
But,
Speaker 3
finally, I woke up in the middle of the night, and I was having a lot of really intense pressure waves, and my husband said, Is it time? Do I need to set up the birth pool? And I said, No. I I'm just gonna get up and take a warm bath. And the next morning, I told my mom, and, of course, she's like, okay, I'm I'm gonna tell I'm at work and I'm coming. She always likes to come even though she knows it's way before time. Mhmm. But it was so helpful because she helped me do my finished cleaning and, you know, get everything ready. And she helped take care of my kids and fed me meals, and it was amazing. And, then they stopped about eleven o'clock that day. And I thought, okay, we're just gonna keep waiting. And I did look for a little reassurance. I asked people to share, successful unassisted pregnancy past forty two week gestation stories with me. I felt really confident, but I just thought, if I can read some of these encouraging stories, that'll make me feel good.
Speaker 1
Of course.
Speaker 3
And so I
Speaker 1
That's literally why we do this podcast.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And that's why I was so thankful for your group and your podcast. And it really helped. I was just so at peace. And, the next morning, I woke up, and I was having contractions again, and they were really sporadic. And I was my hips and my back were hurting a lot. So since my mom was here, I went to the chiropractor because I just thought, oh, that'll give me some relief. I'm I had, SPD a lot of my pregnancy. And so I saw my chiropractor a lot and did acupuncture. And so that day, I went and he adjusted me, and I said, okay. Hopefully, next time I come, I have a baby to get adjusted to. And on the way home, I had, quite a few contractions. And I thought, oh, okay. You know, maybe maybe this will happen in the next few days. And I got home, and I rested, and I ate. And by supper time, they were really starting to get intense. And my husband came home and they were eating and I went up to my bedroom and I was by myself and it was dark and I had my salt lamp and I just kinda sat there and I was so glad. I just said to myself, I'm so glad I chose this journey because who knows where I would be sitting right now at forty two weeks and five days.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Or what stress I would be having. And, then all of a sudden, it just picked up, and they were, like, a minute apart. And that was crazy for me because usually, it takes I mean, not usually, but my two births before it was, like, hours of contractions, ten minutes apart, seven, twenty. You know? It took a long time to get to active labor. Mhmm. And so I stood up, and I'm like, okay. That I'm in a bit of denial, but this is happening. I think this is the real thing. And, so I kinda notified my doula and my support people who are coming. And I came downstairs and took a bath, and my husband said, do you want me to start setting stuff up? And I said, no, not yet. I think I have some time. And then I got out of the bath and I said, okay, we gotta start setting up. And I notified everyone to come. And, it was just such a different labor. And I think some of it was my mindset because I wasn't scared. With my two births before that, I've I feared labor. You know, it hurts. It's scary. Mhmm. And so it was such a different mindset that I am excited about this. I was so excited to be at home in my birth space and the people I love to be here. And, it just seemed like I, it was peaceful. I wasn't in pain. I, you know, went through my contractions. And for a while, I was in the bathroom and I came back out. And I sat down on the chair in the kitchen, and I ate some fruit that my mom had cut up, and they were blowing up the birth pool, and I said, Okay, I am ready to be in the pool. Can you get that filled up? And it was right at eleven o'clock. I my doula arrived and I got in the birth pool, and I remember saying, oh, this is heaven. It was just, like, such a relief. Like, that's just exactly where I needed to be at that time. And I thought, okay, you know, I probably have four or five more hours. I'm just gonna get comfortable and ride these waves. And then my friend who was coming for support, she showed up and, it was only about forty five minutes and she was born. And I I had actually been kind of sitting and leaning back through my contractions. That's what felt good. And all of a sudden, I felt this urge to get up on my knees and lean on the the back of the birth pool. And until that point, I hadn't felt myself. I hadn't checked myself. And I I reached in, and I could feel her right there. She was about two inches up.
Speaker 1
And And what could you feel?
Speaker 3
Well, I didn't know what I was feeling.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 3
In my head, I said to myself, that feels awfully pointy for a head. But I had never felt before. Right. And so I thought, oh, okay, well, that must be what it feels like.
Speaker 1
Right. Totally. Of course. And, that Sorry. I wanted to ask you also when you were, like, palpating for fun with your doula and, you know, did you have any sense of position? I know this was a surprise, but, like, was it one of those pregnancies where the baby, you know, kept flipping around into breach and head down, or did you have any sense of it?
Speaker 3
That was the odd thing. I we couldn't tell. Even when she was feeling she was like, okay. I think, you know, this is the butt, and this feels like the bobble head, but we couldn't really tell. And she was not a a super active baby. Mhmm. She was pretty calm in utero. And I felt what felt like kicks up in my ribs and hiccups down low, and so I wasn't sure. And I do remember at, like, thirty nine weeks telling her I said, I don't know if she's head down or the baby. I didn't know if it was poor girl, but it's hard not to call her a she now.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Of course.
Speaker 3
I said, I feel like the baby flipped, and I'm not sure because I did feel the position move, and it felt very different. Mhmm. But I I just couldn't tell. Yeah. And the thought ran through my head, okay, what if the baby's breech? And but then I never really approached it again. I just thought, you know, it how it'll be is how it's meant to be, and it'll happen. And it's kinda funny. I have a a little group of friends I've met online, because where I live, it's hard to find other people who parent like I do or, you know, a lot of things here are mainstream. And anyway, I was talking to my friend, and she said it was, like, two days before I went into labor, and she said, what are you gonna do if the baby's breech? She said, are you gonna are you prepared to deliver a baby breech at home by yourself? And I just said, yeah. I said, I I don't think the baby's breech, but if it is, I said, you know, the birth will will be what it's supposed to be. And I'm not worried about it. But then after that, I never really thought about it again. Mhmm. And Well,
Speaker 1
and that's the thing. Like, I mean, once you're actually when you commit to free birth and you're at home and you're pushing, what are you gonna do? I mean, you're gonna, like, create an emergency and call nine one one because you feel feet? That that feels way more dangerous than than just having the baby.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so I I never really thought about it again. And I think part of that was because I I just wasn't worried about it.
Speaker 1
And did you did you look up sorry. Last question. Did you look up, like, what to do with the baby's breech and, like, learn about about any particular things around delivering it?
Speaker 3
I didn't look anything up. I had, about the middle of my pregnancy, looked at the emergency childbirth manual
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Just so I had an idea of, things that I guess other people consider emergencies. Right. Because my my doula, did ask me. She said, you know, do you have an idea of things that you would wanna transfer for? Because I'm about thirty five minutes from a hospital. And so, you know, she said and I looked at her, and I said, I can't I can't think of anything. And she said, okay. So unless, you know, you're bleeding out, you're not transferring. And I said, no. And, you know, unless it's something terribly emergent.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And, so I I had glanced through that just because I wasn't super familiar with what a cord prolapse was or Right. Shoulder dystocia. And the breech birth is on there. And I I do remember it saying, you know, don't pull on baby, let the body come out. But I I never really went into detail with it. It's just something I kinda glanced over. Gotcha. And so I I felt her, and I thought, okay. You know, we still have a little bit of work to do. She's a couple inches up, but this is it. This is what I have been waiting for this moment. I can do this. Yeah.
Speaker 1
And it's happening fast, it sounds like.
Speaker 3
And I really wanted to wait for the fetal ejection reflux to kick in. That was another concern I had because with my first baby, she gave me an episiotomy. Mhmm. And with my second baby, I tore a little, which now I know I wouldn't have needed stitches, but at that point, I didn't know. And so I I wanted to be relaxed and calm and, you know, I was hoping that I I just wasn't sure where I have scar tissue down there, you know, how it would go. Mhmm. And so I after I felt I kind of leaned forward to get ready for the next contraction, and I just felt led to turn around and sit down on my back again. And that's what I did. And I had, I think, two or three more contractions that way. And all of a sudden, I just jumped up and turned back around and leaned on the back of the birth pool. And my husband was right there, and I said, okay. I said, this is how the baby is gonna be born. I need you to be ready to catch the baby. He said, okay. I'm ready. And I just remember all of a sudden, my my body started pushing, and I just kind of sat there upright letting it happen. And, my mom was behind the birth pool, and she was videoing. And she actually kinda got a little panicky. And my husband felt I asked him to feel, and he said, okay. I can feel it's out. And he had no idea what he was feeling, apparently, because
Speaker 1
he didn't feel it.
Speaker 3
It's a butt. Right. And so then I had a small break where my body rested, and I just kinda sat there and waited. And then it it started bearing down and pushing again. And in the background, my mom kinda STARTS PANICKING MORE AND IS EVERYTHING Okay? I THINK THE BABY IS BREATHING UNDER THE WATER. I TURN AROUND AND I SAY, MOM, STOP.
Speaker 1
I SHUT UP.
Speaker 3
AND SHE CAME OUT. AND my husband caught her, and he said, we've got a little girl. And I turned around and looked for a minute. And I turned back, and then my doula helped me get my leg over my cord so I could turn
Speaker 1
around and
Speaker 3
see what
Speaker 1
Did you did you know that she was coming out breach?
Speaker 3
I had no idea.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. That's crazy.
Speaker 3
I had no idea because I never reached down and felt it again. Uh-huh. I I had my arms up. I was actually holding on to the rebozo my doula had around her back. While the fetal ejection reflux was happening. Mhmm. And so I turned around and, the cord was around her neck three times. And so he my husband unwrapped it and he handed her to me and I looked up and my friend said, she was breached. And I and you can see it in the video. I look at my doula and I say I'm like, what?
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3
And, my friend Emily says, no, She was breached. And my mom had, was still videoing, so she stopped the video. And they went back and looked, and she said, yeah. She came out butt first and then her feet and then her head, and she was breached. And that was, like, that was just such a crazy rush of emotions. Because first of all, I had just free birthed my baby in my kitchen. And then I'm like, oh, my gosh, she was breached. And she, she cried. She let out a pretty big roar. And then she was just calm. And we kind of sat in the birth pool. My first two births, for some reason I couldn't remember delivering my placenta. And so I was having the contractions for that and it was really painful. And I was so peaceful my whole labor and her birth. And then all of a sudden, I I was like, not I was like, I'm done with this. I get it out. Get the placenta out.
Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure.
Speaker 3
I said, is it supposed to hurt like this? I just want it out. And, WE TRIED TO LATCH BABY, YOU KNOW, THINKING THAT WOULD HELP. AND SHE WASN'T READY, SO WE Just KIND OF RELAXED IN THE BIRTH POOL. AND, PART OF THE STORY, I FORGOT, MY OLDEST SON IS FIVE. AND HE WAS SO EXCITED, THE WHOLE pregnancy that he would get to be at the birth because with my second son, it was the middle of the night, so we didn't wake him up to go to the hospital. And before he went to bed that night, he said, mom, do you promise that when the baby comes, you'll
Speaker 1
wake me up?
Speaker 3
SO WHEN I REACHED UP AND I FELT THE BABY THERE, I TOLD MY HUSBAND, YOU KNOW, IT'S TIME TO GO GET KASH. GO WAKE UP KASH. SO HE BROUGHT HIM DOWN AND HE KIND OF Just STAYED OFF TO THE SIDE AND SAT ON A CHAIR AND WATCHED. SO WHILE I WAS WAITING FOR THE PLACENNA, HE CAME OVER AND HE MET HIS SISTER AND HE WAS KINDA TAKEN BACK. AND I REMEMBER AT ONE POINT IN MY LABOUR WHEN I TURNED BACK against the birth pool saying, It's okay, Cash. You know, Mommy's okay. I'm not hurting. This is how we get our baby. Mhmm. And I just heard him say, Okay, Mom. And Mhmm. I don't know. That was just such a special moment. Yeah. And when he came over and and he met his sister, it was really special. And, yeah, then the finally, the I decided I maybe getting up might help. I was so uncomfortable that it was almost like the contractions for the placenta hurt more.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I've heard women say that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I don't know if it's because I didn't have a baby to look forward to. I already had a baby. But, I kind of got upright a little, and I came out, and I put it in the bowl. And then I, got out of the birth pool, and I rinsed off and came back to get her. And it was just so peaceful. We, she wasn't ready to latch, so we waiter, and then, they had made a nice space for us in the living room on the couch. We went there and, just kind of relaxed and bonded skin to skin and waited. We let the cord I think we cut the cord at three hours. And I just kind of was taken back and soaking it all in what had just happened and that she was breached. Right. And because, I mean, you hear stories about that, and and I knew it would be okay and I could have a breeched baby at home, but it's just not really something I thought would happen.
Speaker 1
Well, especially especially finding out after the fact, that's a trip. So I'm wondering also in the labor, because you had had a labor without an epidural with your previous birth, like, did it did it feel different as she came down through, you know, through your body without, you know, the head leading the way and and not having the head, you know, be first coming, you know, through the vaginal canal, did it feel different in retrospect?
Speaker 3
It it didn't feel any different. I, you know, everyone keeps asking me that and they keep saying, what did you do different? Did it feel different? And it really didn't. If if I would have been alone birthing, I would have never known. That's awesome. And it's so crazy because, and that's what's more crazy about people acting like breech birth is so scary and so different and, you know, risky. And it's like, I
Speaker 1
Well, like, I didn't even I didn't even notice.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I I didn't. And I don't know if part of it helped that I was just so in tune and able to listen to my body and let it do the work. You know? I wasn't, force pushing her out.
Speaker 1
Exactly. And you didn't have an attendant who was pulling, you know, and and messing with the whole fetal ejection response.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. And at first, when I was sitting on the couch afterwards, I thought, man, I I really pushed. I didn't wanna have to push, but I didn't know what what that reflex felt like prior to that because I had never, never been able to experience it before. Because even with my second birth, you know, I had asked not to be coached to push, but still when it was time, the midwife was there and they were saying push push. So Wow. Yeah. It was kinda crazy. And then I looked back and I'm like, wait, I didn't push. That was I mean, I did, but that was my body doing it.
Speaker 1
Totally. My baby.
Speaker 3
Stop it.
Speaker 1
Totally. Oh, wow. That is so awesome. And so how has it been so how long ago was she born?
Speaker 3
She is three months old.
Speaker 1
Oh, so it wasn't that long ago. So how has it felt now in your community and even online or wherever you've been sharing this? How has it been received?
Speaker 3
Actually a lot better than I thought. When I first typed out my birth story, I planned to share it online but only in kind of close safer spaces. I didn't plan to share it on my page. But then after I wrote it, it was so beautiful and it was so perfect. I went ahead and shared it. And there was actually a lot more response from people I know in real life, local people, than I thought there would be. Very supportive, very happy. And but people are always shocked when I tell them she was breached. Even my mother-in-law, she called me the next morning and, you know, I told her everything was great and decided when she was gonna come over. And then she came over and in the meantime, she had talked to my husband and she said, you didn't tell me the baby was breached. And I could just tell the look on her face was like, oh my gosh, you're lucky. You're okay.
Speaker 1
Well, and that's the thing, right? Like, we've actually successfully in just really two generations, we have convinced everybody that it's not a thing, that that breach and vaginal birth don't go together. And, you know, nobody almost nobody understands the political history, you know, and the the agenda essentially behind getting rid of breech vaginal and, you know, the the studies that it was based on that have now been debunked and the whole, you know, really interesting history. And if anyone is interested, they should check out a documentary that I'm actually in called Heads Up. And it's, made by a chiropractor out in LA, and it's all about the history of breach in America and and why it has become I've never
Speaker 3
heard of it all. Yeah. You can I can watch it too?
Speaker 1
I think you can just watch it on the website, for a couple bucks or something. But it's worth checking out because it gets into, you know, all the the facts of how this came to be and how there's virtually no incentive in the medical model to bring breach back because everyone's quite comfortable, you know. Well, on the one hand, everyone's quite comfortable doing c sections. Right? Because they're surgeons. And on the other hand, nobody's teaching breach. And so we actually have this gap of the senior, you know, elder, providers, midwife or doctor, who know how to do breach, they're all fading off. You know, there are very, very, very few that are still alive in America who genuinely support vaginal breech and who are teaching it. And so the waves of, you know, doctors that are coming into, into the world right now aren't even learning it. So, of course, they're not gonna support it because it's out of their scope of what they actually what what their actual skill set is. So it's just so interesting. It's and that's why your story is so important, and I love that you didn't even know for a minute. I just love that.
Speaker 3
And as we were sitting on the couch, I was still kind of in shock, and I looked at my husband and I said, can you even imagine if this birth would have been in a hospital? I mean, being past forty two weeks, the baby being breached, the quarter rounder three times, I said, I it would have been a disaster. I said, first of all, they would have known she was breached because they would have wanted ultrasounds. Yep. And the doctor or the midwife would have been feeling and they would have scheduled a C section.
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. For sure.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I I just said, I'm so glad that this is what we chose. And my husband said, I don't know why we haven't had all our babies at home. Why did we ever do this sooner?
Speaker 1
Yeah. You didn't know. Yeah. And Yeah. I think that's so important to point out, you know, and that that you are one of many, many, many women in the free birthing community who, you know, who what we really should just call this the birth community because you're having just normal births. And you had a normal physiological birth with a variation of normal. You know, this is absolutely something that happens and and is, you know, perfectly fine. And if you had been with an OB, you would've have had unnecessary surgery because the providers who have monopolized our birth culture don't know how to sit on their hands. They're not trained to sit on their hands. They're trained to cut. And so you are walking proof of what normal birth is and how in this, you know, default setting, you would be, right now, twelve weeks deep of recovering from an unnecessary surgical birth. As many, many, many, many, many, many, many women are because of breech presentation.
Speaker 3
And that's what's been so interesting, especially online when I've shared my story. I have come across so many women who have, free birth, a breach baby at home. And then I've come across so many who have said, you know, I wish I would have known because I I had a c section because my baby was breeched.
Speaker 1
Of course.
Speaker 3
And so, yeah, it's it's been really interesting. And, people just I mean, they look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them, especially, local people that I know, that I had the baby at home and, you know, it was almost forty three weeks and she was breech. I love it. They just they look at me like, oh my gosh, and you're alive? That's kinda the the feeling I get when they're assessing what I've told them.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. That's why we gotta get these stories out. You know, it's the whole point of this podcast is for somebody to hear this and go, oh, right. Duh. I don't have to do anything. I could just stay home. You know?
Speaker 3
And it's so normal for me now because of where I'm at in my journey. But, you know, I think back and I was that person with my first birth. Of course. You know, I didn't know anyone who home birth I had no idea people home birth without, someone trained
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And assistance. And, so when people look at me like that, I kinda have to remind myself, okay, that was me once. I gotta
Speaker 1
It doesn't occur to us until it occurs to us. Yeah. It's a real light bulb moment. You know, I think most of us who who have free birth can remember the exact moment when it was like, oh, wait a minute. I could just do it. You know, it kinda it's like it's it's particularly it's it would be funny if it wasn't so tragic, but it's it's particularly interesting because birth is something you do alone. And yet, it has been so taken from us that we have to remember that we're doing it on our own. I mean, what a trip. Right? That is so crazy. It's not like a collaborative effort. I mean, it is with your baby, but it's not, you know, with anyone else. It's just so interesting.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And that's why it's hard to decipher. Everyone keeps asking me, was the breech, birth harder? How was it different? And my first response is, it was my quickest, easiest birth I've had.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But then I have to go back and say, but it's my only free birth. It's the only birth I was able to stay at home in my comfort and be completely in charge and trust my body and listen to my body.
Speaker 1
Totally. I mean, I have attended a handful of vaginal breech home births, and they've they've also mirrored that same thing that they're quicker. And, it does make sense physically of of the baby, you know, that either the butt or the legs are coming down. That's a lot less stretching in the beginning. That's kind of paving the road before the head goes through. So it kinda makes sense. But, I mean, either way, it's just so awesome.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so I and I'm so glad that I had my mom video because at at first, I wasn't sure if I wanted a video. And then I thought, I want her to take it so I at least have it because my other tubers, I didn't have any video. And I'm so glad because otherwise, we wouldn't have been a hundred percent sure.
Speaker 1
That's awesome. So how do you feel three months out of this incredible and yet also so simple birth story? How has it shifted your own feelings about yourself, if anything? Just how how do you feel in the wake of it all?
Speaker 3
It it feels pretty amazing, but I I also, have had to work through a lot of grief with my last two pregnancies. I went back and looked at some of my pictures from my birth and they made me sad.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And so I've I've been deciphering, you know, how to be okay with that, get past that. And I just also feel so compelled, so led to, share my story or try to help other women, especially in my area where it's just so uncommon to have a home birth here. And, you know, it it's like even if you have twins, it's an automatic c section. Yeah. My closest hospital that I had my oldest at, their c section rate is forty three percent. Mhmm. And so, I actually just I I've kinda felt it for a while, but especially since Cora's birth, I felt so led to try to get my story out and help other women. I, signed up to this summer start my journey to become a a birth and postpartum doula. And I just hope that just, you know, sharing my story, reassuring women, and that we can start to make change with this, because, I can't imagine I had my, you know, birth gone any other way.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And you're you're an interesting case because you've you've had a birth in every setting. You know, it's, I mean, you haven't had a c section, but you've had, you've had a hospital birth and a birth center birth and a, and a home birth unattended.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And now looking back, I really wanna send something to that doctor I had to begin with and say, not only did I have a bigger baby, but I had a breech baby. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Look at me now.
Speaker 3
And you told me
Speaker 1
You should. You should. I mean, it wouldn't be hard to get, if you do a handwritten letter to get their office and send a photo along. And, I mean, I think that's a great idea, and I think it's important to remind doctors, about their impact on us and the story that they said in your vulnerable, you know, hormonal, emotional time and how that story was a hundred percent not true. I think that would be really cool.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Because, I mean, looking back, I and I was this twenty two year old girl who I I told my husband all all my next babies are probably gonna be c sections because they'll probably be bigger than six pounds, and I can't have a baby vaginally. But, I mean, I just believed that. It's so crazy.
Speaker 1
Why wouldn't you? Right? We're we're literally taught to take their word as truth and to not question it, which is why, you know, what we're doing is so radical because we're going, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm actually gonna decide my truth for myself. You know, and society is like, how dare you? You know? But it's so important because this is our inner truth, and this is what's real. You know, only you can know your truth. Only you can, you know, create your birth experience. Only I can know mine, and it is it is the essence of taking birth back. And it it you know, that that doctor tried to take it from you, and you were like, no. Actually, watch this.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I I'm really glad that I mean, had I maybe had a a baby sooner or not went down the path I did parenting wise and started learning more about, natural ways of life and then that led to, you know, I I probably would have just believed her and went back and had whatever birth, you know, she led me down Yep. Whatever path that was.
Speaker 1
So gotta shout your story from the rooftop and share it. And, you know, as you become a doula, you know, you're a walking example of what normal birth is and can be. And, you know, and I wanna go back to something that you said about part of you having this gorgeous, normal, physiological birth experience also also meant that you had to sit with the grief of the previous ones. And I think that's really potent. And I've heard I've heard other women say that as well. And it's maybe this is a stupid example, but it's like, you know, having only eaten McDonald's and then having incredible organic local food and being like, oh, shit. That food's really bad. You know? Or, like, only terrible sex, and then you finally meet this safe, incredible, you know, partner, and you actually figure out what making love is. And you have to be like, oh, damn. You know, it's it's the it's it's part of it's part of really living in truth with your eyes open. And, you know, having these high experiences is that we do have to hold the past, and there is very much so a grief in that we didn't know better. You know, that quote, do better or know better, do better. You know? And it is, I think go ahead.
Speaker 3
Even with my second birth being, you know, I was only there four hours before I was born. I, wasn't on the monitors. I didn't have an IV. I chose my position I birthed in. Even looking back, going through the birth videos of that, I was just like because coming out of that birth, I thought it was amazing. And it was pretty amazing compared to my first birth.
Speaker 1
Exactly. Right? When you start when you start at the at the, what's it called? The assembly line factory.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so I thought, oh, that was amazing. You can have an amazing hospital birth. And then now when I look back, I'm sad. And I'm like, oh, but, you know, they still were they were telling me to push and looking at the pictures of the midwife with her hands on my baby as he emerged. And I I actually that was a hard moment. I went back. I wrote his birth story after he was born, but I went back to add it to my blog with pictures. And as I went through the pictures my doula had taken for me and I saw those, I I was just a puddle of tears. Yeah. And I was just like, why? You know? Right. Why Why did I not free birth before this? But I mean, I can't change it. And my experiences have led me where I am. But there's still there's a lot of grief and a lot of guilt.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And your children will have learned through your journey, you know, from hospital to hands on midwives to this, you know, incredible free birth. They're going to have an accelerated learning process because of this, as are everyone listening to this podcast, you know, and all the people that you will talk to, you know, get to learn from us because we're using our voice and because you have gone through this. I mean, it's it's so important, and you're doing you're doing everything right to share it. And this journey, it's it's just such a beautiful journey because it's it's a common one in the free birth community to start at the hospital because we just do what we're told, and we go with the with the norm, you know? And then you blossomed into this educated, intuitive, powerful woman, you know? And that's now a legacy in your family, and it's it's beautiful. It's exactly it's exactly what it should be.
Speaker 3
Well, thank you. Yes. It's been quite the journey, and that was something that I felt so special when, my oldest son, he asked me, mommy, where are you gonna have the baby? Because he's always asking me, where was I born? Where were you born? And I said it was about halfway through my pregnancy. I said, I'm gonna have the baby at home. And his eyes just kinda lit up like, oh, yeah. You can do that. And he's five. And afterwards, he was he was just, you know, he'd say, mommy, I'm so glad that we were all here together when you had the baby. And I wasn't sleeping when when my sister was born. And so that was really special too. And I also, really want to point out that I feel that it was so important for my mom to see, because she she had unmedicated births with all of us, but in the hospital. And, she she'd only been around hospital births, and she did panic a little at the end. But afterwards, she was just like, oh, my gosh. This is how women are meant to have babies. Right. And, you know, she she was pretty embarrassed. She said, I'm I'm sorry I was panicking. I I hope I didn't ruin your birth. And I said, no. I didn't. And,
Speaker 1
so I don't and and you're healing people beyond just yourself through these kind of, you know, actions.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I just feel I feel really lucky that she was able to witness that too because it it really, impacted her too. So that's kind of amazing.
Speaker 1
That's totally amazing. That's so beautiful. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story. I absolutely loved it and can't wait to get this out into the world.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share it. And, I don't know if I would have been brave enough to share a a lot of it had I not joined the Freebirds Society and followed other women's stories. And so what you're doing for women is amazing also.
Speaker 1
Awesome. Thank you. So special. Yeah. I mean, that's we we learn best through stories. You know? We're we're women. We're we're protectors of stories and sharers of stories. So, you know, I think I think it is way more impactful for us to absorb, you know, hundreds of these positive birth stories than it would be to, like, read an emergency childbirth book.
Speaker 3
Yes. Yep.
Speaker 1
You know?
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Yes.
Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Carrie.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love. Testing. Testing.
