Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
This week, we're joined by Lele from Tasmania. Having suffered a fourth degree tear that required surgery immediately following her unmedicated hospital birth, she was surprised to find no care providers would support her in a second vaginal birth. Facing a completely unnecessary and unwanted c section, she randomly discovered Freebird Society's Instagram page and then this very podcast. Lel tells us her story of birthing her second child with just her husband and son by the fire in her home.
Speaker 2
Alright. So with the first birth, I was really excited about the actual process of giving birth, but I was really scared about being a mother. I had a lot of fear around that. And so, in the lead up to the birth, I was really, nervous about what was gonna come after it, but I was excited about the physical aspects of giving birth. I did a lot of research and really looked into it, and I I had a lot of sort of bad dreams around, the time, but nothing to do with the birth. But I do think it was my mind just just processing what was coming Mhmm. In the future. And then, so, basically, I reached the the forty week mark according to the due dates that they had given me. And then I was very lucky in that I had a client who was coming to me for massage who was a midwife at the local hospital. So I was able to ask her to deliver the baby for me, and I knew her so well. And so she was really involved in the lead up up to the birth. She did all of our checks, all of our tests. She knew exactly what I wanted, so we could discuss it in-depth in the lead up. And so when it actually came to giving birth, she didn't have any question for me because we had spoken about it so often. So I felt very safe going into labor with her, there with us. And then she had another assistant midwife who she had chosen. So, she which really helped as well, obviously, because then they were on a similar level, the two of them together. So we, went into labor, and then I labored at home for ten hours. And I was I don't ever remember feeling fearful during the labor. I was just so excited. That's all I remember to be experiencing this massive, physical transformation. I was just really excited, and I really felt like I could do it. I wanted to do it naturally. I wanted to do it drug free. I really wanted that that feeling of power afterwards that I had heard people speak about after the baby comes out of you and you just think, oh my goodness. I did this. So yeah, so, we eventually, my husband phoned the hospital after ten hours of labor here at home and just moving between the lounge and the bath and outside in the drizzle just as I needed to. And then he phoned them and he said, should we come in? And they had done an internal check on me because I was a couple of days over according to their due date, and they had said that I was already three centimeters dilated Wow. When I had gone in the day before. And I I had mild backache at that stage, but nothing significant. It wasn't even like a period pain. So they thought I would have already have had the baby by now. It was already it was already hours later. It was the following day. As if it was that
Speaker 1
sort of a perfect science.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. Well, the doctor actually said to me, you'll have delivered within the next seven hours.
Speaker 1
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2
And it was actually it was only seven hours later that I actually woke up having contractions.
Speaker 1
It blows my mind how many providers do that, how they act like we're all these predictable machines that they can, like, make bets on. It's so wild. Like, haven't they learned anything?
Speaker 2
I know. It's it's so crazy. And it's it's also it's such a strange situation to be in as the person waiting for the baby to come because you're sitting there thinking, okay. Right. When is the baby gonna come? And then you eventually just go to bed and go to sleep because nothing significant is happening. You know? So it's very confusing. But then, we when I when my husband phoned, then the hospital said head on over and we'll check when you get here. So we got in the car and we headed to the hospital, and then the they said to me, get on the bed and we wanna do an internal check, and I just couldn't lie down. I couldn't lie down. It was impossible for me. I wanted to be on all fours. That's what my body was telling me the whole time. And so I said, I can't lie down, and they said, well, just try in between contractions. So I've got on my back on the bed, and they tried to do an internal check, but I just it was a force that I couldn't control that just got me off the bed onto the ground and onto all fours again. It was the only position my body wanted to be in. So my husband had parked and he came up to the hospital. They led me straight to the birthing suite, and they called our midwife and told her you need to get here as soon as possible because they had realized I was really progressed. And and then I when she arrived, I got into the bathtub, and the water they just turned the shower head on so the water was just falling down on my back, which was so relaxing. It just made such a difference. And, also, I was just constantly saying to myself, now you can do this. You're doing so well. You're amazing. Just affirming myself the whole time because I felt my my body knew what it was doing. My mind needed to just remain calm and just let my body do its thing. And then, eventually, they asked me to get out of the tub, which I did. And then I went so my husband was sitting on the couch and I squatted in between his legs. And then I just felt the desire to push, and so I pushed really, really hard. And in hindsight, I believe that I was pushing too hard. I didn't realize that, in fact, the baby would know or would be able to get out of my body itself. I felt like I need to assist it in that. Totally. And I wish I had known that I yes. I could've just let the baby come in its own pace rather than trying to force so hard. God. That's such a good
Speaker 1
point. You know, we're we're not in this in a society where babies are delivered and where babies are pulled out and where the vast majority of women are numbed, they do have to be told how to push. And so the cultural amnesia, you know, has occurred that as women, it is stopped being normal knowledge, you know, common knowledge that the baby really births themselves through a fetal ejection reflex. Right? That we all have. But that's such a good point. Like, unless you're let in on this little secret that the baby pushes essentially births themself. Right, of course, you're gonna think that you have to do all of it.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And that's also our exposure in the media too. Whenever you see a woman giving a birth in the movies, they're pushing so hard.
Speaker 1
And they're they're they're mimicking epidurals because they're always on their back in a gown with their legs spread open with a doctor in front of their vagina ready to catch or pull. And so it's it's, visually, like, the programming is, oh, of course, they're on an epidural, you know, because no woman, like, as you just described, no woman who's having a physiological birth is gonna wanna be a turtle on their shell.
Speaker 2
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And I was quite surprised by the fact that I wanted to go on all fours throughout the entire labor because I expected that I would want to lie on my back or else potentially on my side, but I never imagined on all fours. Mhmm. And so it was quite interesting in the process that that is exactly what was comfortable for me. And I also feel in squatting and then pushing, I was really changing what was comfortable for me. Mhmm. Yeah. So, so my husband, he really wanted to be as involved as possible in helping, and he was so helpful throughout the entire labor. Just putting cool cloths on my head and reaffirming what I was saying to myself. And just, when it came to the actual he wanted to catch the baby initially, but when it came to the end of the labor, I think he felt I needed his assistance. And so he held me in his arms, and he just breathed with me. And it felt as if he was also just pushing the baby down and helping the baby out. And he was talking to the baby in Afrikaans in his language and saying, you can come now. And then the baby began to crown, and it was so painful. And I and I was saying before, it really felt like I was breaking. And I was saying, I feel like I'm breaking. I feel like I'm breaking. And then the next thing, there was this almighty push, and both midwives had their hands beneath me, and our baby just shot out. The the head the body just shot out. So it wasn't as I've since discovered the head coming out and then turning and then the body coming out in the next contraction. Almost. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Sometimes. Exactly. Sometimes they fly out. Sometimes they take their sweet time. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yes. And something I appreciated about the midwives is that they they said to me because I by this date, I was just high. I was on another planet, and I didn't even look at the baby. I was just so relieved that he was out, and they were saying, look at your baby. Look between your baby's legs. What is your baby? And then I looked and saw he's a little boy. And then they said, look at your stomach. Bring yourself back. And they were touching my stomach. And, I think initially, they put the baby to my chest, although I don't remember that part. I was just down on the ground by the stage. But my husband removed his shirt, and then they put the baby onto his chest. And he held the baby and spoke to them. And the reason for that or spoke to the baby, the reason for that is because they saw that there was quite a a large amount of blood. And I had been low in iron before the breast. They wanted to get the percentage out as fast as possible so that they could just get a doctor in to do an examination.
Speaker 1
Which, you know, let me let me just say that literally, the worst thing to do when a mom is hemorrhaging is take her baby away on a hormonal and physiological, you know, level to remove the young, which is actually the thing that's gonna balance you and bring in your prolactin and help release the placenta. You know, biologically, the the the baby mammal, you know, that the mother has just passed to remove that and pass it on is the most disruptive thing to do in a hemorrhage. And that's how it's handled in the hospitals.
Speaker 2
Yes. Okay. So they wanted to give me an injection to bring on the placenta. And before I had gone in to give birth, I had sat with the midwife and said, I don't want any medication. I don't want any intervention unless you say to me, now this is necessary. So I truly trusted that she wouldn't do anything unnecessary to me unless it was so unless she really felt it necessary. And so I really appreciated having my husband there because she said to me, I'm gonna have to give you the injection to bring the placenta down as soon as possible. And Johanna stopped her, and he he put his hand on me and said, Lao, do you understand that you're about to receive an injection to bring the placenta down? And I said, yes. If she says that it's necessary, let's do it. And so I really appreciated having him there because in that moment, you just in a on a different planet. Mhmm. Anything could have happened to me, and I wouldn't have really known what was going on. So he really brought me back the moment. So they gave me the injection. They began intense massage on my abdomen. The placenta came down, and then they moved me into the hospital bed just a couple of steps away, and they put the baby straight onto me. Good. Yeah. And then the the midwife so he began to start suckling, and the midwives went to get the doctor who came in and they, I believe they said to the doctor, we've got a potential secondary degree care, which is what you could see just from looking at me. And then the doctor came in and she assessed that I had a second degree care, but she wanted to do an internal examination. And so at this stage, everything was beautiful. Everything was calm. We were so excited. And then the doctor did an internal examination, and then she discovered that in fact, I had had what I've still found out is referred to as a buttonhole key. So there's a fourth degree key, but it's up inside the canal.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So there was a key from the anal canal to the vaginal canal. Mhmm. About three centimeters back. So, basically, everything changed. Yeah. It was just mayhem. And the doctor, obviously, wasn't expecting this to occur, and she must have really panicked because she just couldn't get her words out. She was really stressing and saying, this is bad. This is bad. Oh my god.
Speaker 1
Come on, doctor.
Speaker 2
And so yes. And I was so euphoric that I kind of wasn't there, but it was making my husband really nervous. And she was saying, I can't deal with this. I'm not qualified to deal with it. I'm gonna need to call in, a gynecological surgeon, and we you're gonna need more help than I can give you. I can't deal with this. And so it was just really stressful situation to be in. And it was as if the whole room went into a flurry. And then all of a sudden, there was a dripping my arm, and the consultant came in, and he spoke to my husband. And my husband was so nervous, and he was saying to the doctor, have you done this before? Have you ever dealt with this before? And the doctor was really reassuring him, the surgeon. He was saying I've done plenty of these before. It's okay. You just can remain calm. We'll be in surgery for forty minutes, and she'll be fine. And so I was with our son for an hour. He was on my case, then we had some time, just my husband and son and I are not in the room. And then they came in, and then they wheeled me out and down into surgery. And then they left Johannes with our son in the hospital room. They took him to a separate room. And so now he's expecting, obviously, a forty minute surgery because that's what he's been told. And I think they might have not prepared him for pre the prep to go into surgery and then also the recovery time. But there was a lack of communication because he was there with this brand new baby. Now he's terrified because of the whole situation that's occurred Yeah. At the end of the birth. And no one is telling him what's going on. He's just been left alone in a room with a brand new baby.
Speaker 1
Oh my god.
Speaker 2
And so he was really stressing. And then I was in surgery. They asked if I wanted to go under anesthetic or have a spinal tap, and I opted for anesthetic. And then I was gone for two hours Damn. In total.
Speaker 1
And you had a they had to do this surgery right away?
Speaker 2
I'm not actually sure. I've never asked about it. The surgery went really well. Good. So I'm really happy that it all worked out and it went well. I I'm not sure if it had to happen immediately. I do know it was a weekend. It was a Saturday, so the surgeon had to be called in and the, emergency nurses had to be called in. So I wonder if I'm not sure if that was the reason, but I I don't know actually if it had to occur immediately, but it did. Yeah. So
Speaker 1
So it went well?
Speaker 2
Went in it went really, really well. And in the time that, obviously, Hannah's now panicking in the hospital room, He was holding the baby and just trying to remain calm and also researching what a fourth degree tear means, which didn't help the situation at all because in my circumstance, in fact, the fourth degree wasn't as bad as a real a proper fourth degree externally would have been because the rectal muscle was unaffected by the t.
Speaker 1
Oh, good.
Speaker 2
So he just saw all of this reef all of this information on Google, and then he's really starting to panic. And, eventually, he just walked out of the room with the screaming baby and pulled the doctor aside who had initially done the, clear assessment and just said to her, what is happening with my wife? You can't just leave me alone here and not give me any information. And then she said, oh, no. No. She's already out of surgery. We're just waiting for her to wake up. She's absolutely fine. So that was That is so upsetting.
Speaker 1
High volume care in a nutshell.
Speaker 2
It it just must have been so stressful for him. I can just imagine. If it had been me, I would have been so panicked. And so, eventually, they wheeled me back in, and I was hooked up to an intensive, antibiotic drip just in case there had been some transferral of bacteria from the anal canal into the vaginal canal, and in case I was gonna be accessed for some kind of life threatening infection. And it just seems so crazy to me because I had had this incredible natural experience, A totally drug free birth. I hadn't had any anesthetic or any pain pain relief. And then all of a sudden in the end, I'm under anesthetic. I'm hooked up to a drug. It was just really it seems so crazy in the end. Wow. That's crazy. Yeah. Yes. And so I had to stay in the hospital for a couple of days on the strip, and they wanted me to stay longer. And Johan keeps saying to me, no. We've gotta get home. This isn't a place for getting better. This is a place for getting sicker. Yeah. He keeps saying it. And then I I felt like I needed to stay. I needed to be taken care of. But the one morning, he took me outside with the baby, and we just walked outside in the sunshine on the grass, and it hit me. I just need to get out. I need to go home. So we just asked for the drip to be taken out of me even though they still wanted to continue the course of antibiotics. And we just took the baby, and we went home. And I've got better so much faster at home just in our own environment. And it was also so helpful because my husband, he really he took care of us. He cooked. He cleaned. He wouldn't allow me to do any sort of heavy lifting Good. Because he was really worried about the tea. And so I felt like I really I think most women after they have a baby, you kinda feel like you've lost control of your life. It's such a crazy new experience. And he and the one thing I was allowed to do was hang out the washing. He would let me take the bath or he would take the basket outside and put it at the line, and then I would hang out the washing and not give me a chance just to feel like I was so normal.
Speaker 1
Totally. I remember that with mine too. He he was like, you are not allowed to do any laundry because I had to walk downstairs to do it, and it drove me crazy. And I remember being like, okay. Tell me when I'm allowed to do the laundry again. Exactly.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Oh, what am I allowed to do? Yeah.
Speaker 1
I want
Speaker 2
to be a show. Can I sweep? Because you just wanna feel like
Speaker 1
Totally. No. I remember making when I made myself my first snack, then it was, like, pretty long after, honestly. I mean, it was probably, like, over a week or ten days or something, which is pretty good that I had been restful and let him wait on me. But when he was, like, outside or something, when he wasn't looking, I made myself a snack. And by the end of me making the snack, like, I had totally reopened my little paper cut tears, and it, like, totally hurt. And I was like, why did I do that? But I had to just make myself a snack.
Speaker 2
Exactly. So You'll do anything to feel normal.
Speaker 1
Even if it's stupid. Exactly. Okay. So so how does this so so keep going. So so how are you in your postpartum? When does this whole idea of birthing again outside of the hospital start to ruminate inside of you?
Speaker 2
Alright. So after I had given birth to our first son, I went to have my six weeks checkup with the same surgeon who had who had done all of the reconstructive work after the check. And he said to me so initially, the doctor who had panicked said to me, you'll never give you'll never have a natural birth again, which I thought was so inappropriate because I was very vulnerable. And it just made me cry because I had felt like this was such a great experience.
Speaker 1
Oh, so sad.
Speaker 2
It it was straight afterwards. Yeah. So I was so sad. And that was one of the questions I had for the surgeon at the six week tech. I just said to him, will I be able to deliver naturally again? And he said, absolutely. He said, the only reason we wouldn't get you delivered naturally again is if you were having a baby that was really a lot bigger than your first born or else if you were gonna have a multiple birth. Otherwise, you will be absolutely fine. And he put that in my medical notes. So then what happened was I fell pregnant with our second son. And I was adamant that because the surgeon had told me and because I had loved my natural birth experience so much that I wanted to do that again. Mhmm. So then I went to the hospital for my initial checkup with our a second son, and I was gonna have the same midwife. But since then, that faculty of the hospital had closed down, and you had to go to a different city to give birth. And that meant that the midwife couldn't be our registered midwife, but she could be our supportive person in the room. So she was gonna be there with us. And so, basically, in the lead up, the surgeon who had fixed me had moved to a different state, and there were new doctors and new surgeons. And they stepped in and said that they had come to the decision that I couldn't have a natural birth.
Speaker 1
Oh, that's nice of them to decide that for you. Wow. How did that feel to receive?
Speaker 2
I was so upset because I kept saying to them, but the surgeon who did my operation did such a good job, and he was so confident in the fact that I would be able to have this vaginal delivery again. And they were just saying we need to eliminate your our risk and your risk. And I was saying, I understand that, but what where are your facts? How how why do you feel like it's a risk for me to give birth again? And then they said there is no backup. In fact, there's no backup to say that I couldn't give, natural birth again, but they were just scared that I would tear. So that is what they wanted me to do. Alright. So then I, so I was adamant with them. I'm going to have a natural delivery. I will not have a cesarean unless it's an emergency. I'm not gonna elect for the cesarean. And then I was having all the checkups at the original hospital with my midwife, but then I was gonna have to give birth in the other hospital as I was saying. So when I went to go and have the maternity ward tour, then they said to me, oh, you're booking for a cesarean at thirty eight weeks. And then I said, no. No. There must be a miscommunication. I have made it clear that I don't want to have a cesarean electively. I know. And it's obviously there was a miscommunication between the hospitals, and they just wouldn't listen to me. And so I booked in to go and see a doctor there, and I sat down with her. Eventually, after hours of waiting with all the other pregnant woman. And then I said to her, I just want to reiterate my decision my decision to have a natural delivery. I understand the risk, and I am making this decision. And she said, look, at the end of the day, you are the one giving birth and you get to decide. We will only do a civilian if it's an emergency, if that's what you want. And so then I felt a little bit better about that. I felt a bit more comfortable, but I still felt like I was in a lineup having sat with all of those other pregnant women. And so then that's when I came home, and I saw this post about this woman called Lacey. And I've followed the link on her Instagram profile to your podcast and suddenly this world opened up to me, this rebirthing world. I'd never heard of this concept. I'd never thought that, in fact, you could give birth without any help. You could just do it yourself. Right? And that's why I listened to the podcast, and I couldn't believe that she did it with her first born baby, and she was so confident in herself. And I thought I'm confident too. I've done this before. I know that I can do it, and I know that I can do it well. And so then my husband offered to deliver the baby, and that's where the seed was born after Lacey's podcast. So then you started making
Speaker 1
It it makes me think about, like, if in the last couple generations, it just happened in society that somebody else had to wipe your butt after you went to the bathroom. They just had to. Like, that's just what happened. And anytime you had a bowel movement, somebody had to wipe your butt. And so in a couple generations, we have forgotten that we could actually do it. You know? It's like Exactly. It's so crazy how quickly this amnesia has occurred. And and I'm totally with you because I remember I remember the moment as well when it was like, oh, wait a minute. Of course, I just do it anyway so I could just do it on my own. But it it's just so fascinating because we're remembering something that is is almost so blindingly obvious, but has had such successful brainwashing in such a short period of time. It's so amazing. But anyway, so your husband was on board and he supported you.
Speaker 2
Yes. Absolutely. And he's very calm and confident, and he we started looking more into it and researching a bit more. I was doing a lot more of the research. He felt like he wanted his experience to just flow, and he didn't want to be influenced by anything. So he was pretty confident in himself. But we I sort of started broaching the subject with people that I knew saying, oh, imagine if the baby if I went into labor and then the baby just came out before I made it to the hospital. And the the way that people shut that down, I just realized that I couldn't talk to anyone about it because it was just too terrifying a concept for them. Mhmm. And that I was afraid was gonna influence my decision.
Speaker 1
Totally. So you only you only
Speaker 2
want basically.
Speaker 1
You only wanna tell people about it after you've done it.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. And then people people bite their tongue and just say thank goodness everything went well. That's what happened. Yeah. Yes. Yes. So, basically, we made this little secret plan, and it was really exciting. And I went through the pregnancy. It was a beautiful pregnancy, and I was a lot more confident now, obviously, having been a mother and realized I love it, and I'm good at it, and I can do it. I was very excited about this baby and this birth.
Speaker 1
How did you feel being pregnant and knowing that you were gonna free birth around this whole potential severe tearing? How did you, like, reckon that in your brain?
Speaker 2
I didn't I didn't believe that I would tear again.
Speaker 1
Nice.
Speaker 2
And I don't know how I just I just had this faith. I don't know how I knew it. The doctors, because they were so worried about me wanting to do the natural delivery, wanted to do a scan very close to the due date just to check the size of our second baby, and, opted to have the scan knowing that we were potentially gonna have the baby ourselves and not telling anyone, just so that I knew that the baby would be smaller. And then once I found out that in fact he was quite a lot smaller than our first born, I just knew that it was gonna be fine, that my body was ready for it. And that is something that the the surgeon had said to me before. He said, your first born has paved the way, and that's why your second baby, you'll absolutely be able to deliver naturally. And so I just believe that it was gonna go well.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Okay. So take me to the birth.
Speaker 2
Okay. So we go into labor, and it was overnight, I was going to feel those little uncomfortable nickels. And then when we woke up in the morning, myself and my husband and our son, I said to him, I'm gonna have this baby within the next twenty four hours. I can really feel that he's well, that the baby is coming. We didn't know that he was a boy or a girl. But, then my husband just prepped breakfast for our son, and I was still able to work around the house, all the washing and all of that kind of thing, and just continue on my day as normal. And my husband was home for the day, so he took our son down to the river. And they went and played at the little park at the river, and I took some time on my own. And I think it myself, and I told myself that I was gonna do this and that it was gonna be okay. And I built a little altar in front of the fire with a beautiful carpet and lots of towels that I rolled up and laid there in front of the fire. And then I ran a warm bath. And when my husband and son came back, I was laboring in the bath. I mean, by this stage, I wasn't doing anything between contractions anymore. So it was sort of getting later in the day. And then I would get into the warm water and just lie down and then get on all fours once again for contractions, and then get out of the bath and get on all fours on the mat and feel that cool and then back in the warmth. And then eventually, I moved to our bed, and I just lay on the bed and lay the day. And it was there that I started to feel the doubt creep in. And not doubt that we were gonna have the baby at home, but the doubt that I could do it. And I I keep saying to my husband, oh, it's so painful, and I feel like I'm going into a negative state. Not even realizing that I was in transition, which is so crazy in the moment.
Speaker 1
That's awesome.
Speaker 2
But, yeah, but my husband was saying, no. Now you can do this. You you're gonna do it, and you're gonna do it well. And then I, just lay there on the bed. And our son was with us this whole time, and I had coconut oil. And he had watched my husband rub the coconut oil onto my shoulders. And he was very little, and he was just copying what was going on. So he was rubbing my shoulders, and he was very much involved, which was very special for us. And then I lay on the bed, and my husband fed our son, and it was heading into the evening now. So So it was around five or six o'clock that I decided I wanted to move in front of the fire. And so then I crawled off the bed and crept to the fire, and my husband was just continuing his day, giving our son soup. And I was just laboring there on the mat in front of the fire and just really centering myself and concentrating on what was happening. And then the next thing I felt, this incredible wave from my mouth down my throat, down into my chest, my stomach, and I just felt it explode out the back of me. And then my husband jumped up and said, your water's broken. I I felt like I didn't know what had just happened because I hadn't had my water break with our son before. And so or it would have broken, but it wasn't such a massive thing. I don't remember it happening at all. So it was just amazing that this wave went through me. And then my husband got up from the table and he came and he put his hands on me, and he said, you're doing really well. Your water's broken. I want you to just concentrate and keep breathing. And in the lead up to this breath, I had met this woman who had told me, do you know that you can you actually don't have to push? You can actually breathe your baby out. And so my husband was really strict with telling me the whole time, you can breathe this baby out now. You can breathe this baby out. Because, obviously, the desire to push is so overwhelming. And so I was just concentrating on breathing, and I could feel the contraction removing down my entire body as I was on all fours day in front of the fire. And then I felt the head starting to push down below of the baby, and my husband was behind me and my son next to me. And then, I felt pain in the perennial area, and I started to get really nervous. And I said to my husband, I I feel stretching. I can feel pain. And he said that he could actually see a perennial area starting to stretch out. Mhmm. And so he said to me, just breathe. I want you to arch your back like a cat. And I arch my back, and it was this instant relief. And I felt the head descend down into the canal. And then my husband said he just saw the head starting to come through and starting to crown. And so that was so relieving. And then he said to me, breathe. Breathe. And I breathe, and the head went back into my body. Mhmm. And then I felt that wave again, and the head came back out. And then I breathe, and the the head went back in. And then on the third breath, the head came out.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And then my husband grabbed the head. And then on the next contraction, slowly, the body came out and he caught the baby. And then I just heard him start crying. And I went I turned around and just sat down, and Johanna put the baby onto my chest. And it was just so beautiful and calm. And my son was there, and he was touching the baby and saying eyes, nose, mouth, and touching him, and we were all in this little huddle of the the four of us now just in awe of what had happened and so proud of ourselves for having for having done it. It's just incredible.
Speaker 1
That is so beautiful.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
I'm re I can totally picture it. And I'm remembering when I first got your email, I just pulled it up while we were talking. And I just wanna read it to everybody, just the first paragraph because it's you have been in my mind since you emailed me this because it's such a big deal. You wrote, I'm a South African woman living in Tasmania with my husband and two beautiful boys, the second of which is a couple months old, I free birthed him in front of the warmth of our fire on a winter's night with just my husband and firstborn son present. Our firstborn was born naturally in the hospital, and I suffered a fourth degree tear and was therefore advised that a cesarean section would be the most convenient option for the birth to eliminate risk I mean wow And instead I know.
Speaker 2
It's just Instead.
Speaker 1
Yeah. You did that. And it's just this this is this is taking back birth. You know?
Speaker 2
Yes. Exactly. And just educating yourself and believing in the power of your own body and the power of your own baby. It's a natural thing.
Speaker 1
Right. You don't have to do anything.
Speaker 2
Giving birth is a natural thing. Exactly.
Speaker 1
You literally
Speaker 2
Your body knows what to do.
Speaker 1
You literally just need to stay home. That that's it. Just stay home. And it'll
Speaker 2
And you can keep your lights coming. You can play your own music, and you can light your own candles, and you can be in your own environment with no one else telling you what to do or taking you out of your comfort or changing your scenario.
Speaker 1
Well, so so I guess do
Speaker 2
it yourself.
Speaker 1
The big question then is how did your perineum do?
Speaker 2
I didn't even have a grave.
Speaker 1
Wow. It
Speaker 2
was amazing. So basically, after we had given birth and Johan went and put Ibex into his bed. That's my first born son, our toddler. And then I sat with the baby and I felt the placenta coming down and our son was just on the brace cycling and then it eventually moved out of me over a few hours. Mhmm. And then and then, we I I remember it coming down and it was very painful delivering the placenta, but then when it actually came out, it just felt so easy compared to delivering a baby. Because the first time, I didn't even feel the placenta come out because it was just so rushed. And then we decided we would just sit there and relax for hours. It was about six hours that we just sit and let our toddlers sleep because it was probably seven in the evening already. And then when the baby was delivered, and then we decided we would go and just have a check-in the hospital to make sure I hadn't torn. And I desperately didn't want to go. I said to my husband, I feel fine. I feel like I haven't torn, but he would say that perhaps the hormones had helped, obviously, to eliminate that pain and that I might feel fine, but I might actually be injured. And so then we headed to the hospital. And before we went into the hospital, I said to my husband, this is gonna be really bad. It's gonna change the whole situation because we're so calm. We've just been in a beautiful dark room. We've just done this incredible thing, and now we're going into a medical facility. And it was it was really intense going in there and getting the check and just receiving the judgment of particularly one midwife who was just so angry with us. And she she just she couldn't she clearly couldn't hide it. She was just really, really angry.
Speaker 1
So you you went you went in because your husband was nervous?
Speaker 2
Yes. And and understandably so because he said if I had torn and we didn't know it, he would feel so terrible. And there was no way that we could check internally because we we don't know how to check for a tear. And so I we went in and the doctors checked us, and we were fine. They looked at the baby. He was fine. Yeah. But they were really they were really horrible to us.
Speaker 1
Oh, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2
And I just, pleased. I was so happy. I was so naive. I went in there saying, this was the basic sense of my whole life. We canned it and we pulled it off. Mhmm. And it it just it went downhill from there because they obviously realized that it's, I think mostly they assume the baby comes too quickly and you couldn't make it. Mhmm. But they they realized it dawned upon them that in fact this was absolutely our plan. And I think that made them really angry.
Speaker 1
Yeah. How dare you?
Speaker 2
We didn't yeah. Exactly. How dare you choose not to come and have us deliver your child. And so we we didn't get it affect us too badly. We were prepared, which was good because we had discussed it on the way there, how they were they were definitely going to be quite cruel to us. And so we were prepared for it, but we just wanted to know that we that I was safe and okay. And it turned out that I was absolutely fine.
Speaker 1
And, you know, let me just say for anyone listening who's planning their own free birth, not not to diminish your story, but just for educational purposes.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
I understand with your story that you had a serious situation with your first, so there was heightened trauma, and worry around the tear. But for anyone listening, you know, who is gonna free birth, the other option is, you know, to give it a couple of days, let the swelling go down. And if and when you do check it out, a tear is fairly obvious. You know, it's it's Yeah. Visually, you take a mirror and you look. And, you know, if if you've looked at your vagina, like, you you can tell if there is a tear or not because it's it's just like you could tell if there was a tear in any other part of your body. Right?
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
Speaker 1
You know, not to say that you made the wrong decision or anything like that. Like, it's it's all a learning curve and you do what you need to do to to feel, to feel comfortable. Absolutely.
Speaker 2
Yes. It's just that with the specific tear that I had because it was internal. Right. Right. Can actually see it from looking from looking from outside. It needed an internal check to for that initial doctor to find the tear through from the anal canal to the vaginal canal. And that's why my husband was nervous because he felt that he wouldn't know. Sure. Sure. To check if that had torn again.
Speaker 1
I can just I'm just, like, picturing the moment when they told you that you didn't tear and you just being like, oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
Yes. Exactly. I was so proud, and and that's exactly the doctor teach me, not even a grade.
Speaker 1
Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 2
I was so proud. You know, it was amazing.
Speaker 1
That is so cool. And that just really speaks to the wisdom and intelligence of our body's ability to heal, you know, and that and that you probably felt broken after that, and then you weren't. And your body totally healed, you know, a very serious, birth injury and went on to have another baby, and your body totally protected itself when you had an undisturbed physiological birth with nobody messing with you. It's just so fascinating.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. It was beautiful. Exactly the way that it was supposed to be. It was absolutely fine, and we were all healthy and fine and happy.
Speaker 1
That is so cool. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2
And then and then I want to tell you one thing that happened after the birth of this baby that I think was one of the most beautiful things that anyone could have done for me. It was this group of women, one of whom was the one who told me that, in fact, I could do some research about breathing the baby out rather than pushing so hard as I did the first time. So it was this group of girls those women that I met only during the meet up to the birth of our second born, and they created the circle called the nourishing circle after he was, born. And they sent me a roster with each of their names and their week, And then they would contact me at the beginning of the week, and they would arrive with a meal for the entire family for that day.
Speaker 1
Oh.
Speaker 2
So they would bring me just, some food, some smoothies for breakfast so that I didn't have to cook for one day of the week, and it made such an incredible difference just to feel looked after by these women that I had only just recently met.
Speaker 1
That is so special.
Speaker 2
Amazing.
Speaker 1
And then your partner doesn't have to do everything.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. It was so special. And then since then, I've been part of nourishing circles for other women who have given birth, and it makes such a difference. It's the greatest gift because I didn't ask for help, but I received the help. Mhmm. And so I didn't have to go through that awkward that awkward situation of asking for help if that's not the way that you're in time. Mhmm. They just came to me, and they just helped me, and it was so special.
Speaker 1
That is so nice. So for anyone listening, start a nurturing circle in your neighborhood and and pass this on because it's such a simple and important idea. And yeah. Because some people have have been like, are you gonna start a meal train? And in even that, it's like just the the people starting it on their own and just coming by and bringing it by. I mean, that that's everything.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And then you obviously don't have to ask for that help, and it makes such a difference. And people want to help you.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Of course.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. They really want to help you. And if they have a way of doing it, they will come to your assistance when you need it.
Speaker 1
That's beautiful. Oh, what an epic tale. Yeah. That is so cool.
Speaker 2
Can I just also say thank you so much for facilitating this conversation? Because if it weren't for you, I would never have known that this was even a possibility. So, really, you changed my life in that scene. That's crazy. Because it was really the most beautiful experience of my whole life.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I when I started this thing, I was thinking if one woman somewhere in the world could hear this story and it can help them have a better birth, like, that is worth everything. You know? And
Speaker 2
Absolute key.
Speaker 1
That it has happened for you and and for a lot of other women. It's just, like, it's such a big deal.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And I told a a lady in our community about it and she went on to rebirth her second child recently about six weeks ago. Yes. And so the message is spreading, which is fantastic.
Speaker 1
And, you know, so much of the message isn't even like, I don't necessarily think people should be birthing alone. That's I mean, unless they want to, of course. But Yeah. It's it's the the confidence that birth is normal, birth happens. And if you are not comfortable with the support, which I am putting air quotes around it with the care that you've signed up for with your hospital or your midwife, then get the fuck out of there and take control of your own situation and create a better experience for yourself, which is exactly what you did. And that has that, you know, that the lessons, like, that story in your family and how that will affect your children's births and and their stories and their families, and when they find partners, and if they wind up having children, you know, this story in your lineage now is so big and such a reclamation of something that we temporarily lost. It's just so
Speaker 2
powerful. Exactly. And just knowing that you have more than one option
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
When it comes to birth. You have so many options. And if you explore those options and you educate yourself and you can make an educated decision.
Speaker 1
That's what I hear women all the time say I can't afford a home birth. And I'm like, what are you talking about? You mean you can't afford a midwife because a home birth is free. You just don't leave your house and birth happens. Yeah. Like, let's, like, let's, like, remember what is really a home birth. It's not about who's there. It's not about anything other than yourself. A home birth doesn't cost money. You know? I mean, a kid costs money, but the birth itself, you just stay at home and the baby comes out. It literally is free birth. Well, that's amazing. I'm so glad we finally got to connect and I have thought of you so many times. I thought of you around my birthing time and I just have such a vision in my head of you birthing by the fire and, you know, your partner and your older kid being there and just I just love your story, and I'm so happy to have finally gotten you on the show.
Speaker 2
Me too. And thank you so, so much for having me.
Speaker 1
Oh, my pleasure. Awesome. Okay. Take care, Lal.
Speaker 2
You too.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
