Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
Today we are joined by Rose from the south coast of New South Wales, Australia. After a fairly challenging and dramatic first home birth, Rose was dead set on not having another child for some time. On a trip back to Australia from the Caribbean where her partner was working, she discovered she was pregnant yet again. On the brink of hurricane Irma, she was separated from her partner for many months who got stuck in the Caribbean in the aftermath of the disastrous hurricane. Rose stayed in Australia with family and decided to free birth. She experienced a simple and painless ecstatic birth with her daughter. She also talks about what it was like to have her toddler son at the birth, her regret of ultrasounds, and the lessons she learned from both of her births.
Speaker 2
Probably starts with when I met my partner. So I was well, before that, I was living in Jamaica. I was working and living on a farm in Jamaica. And then I ended up, kind of, finding myself on this island. I was hitchhiking around the Caribbean. I'd been hitchhiking around the world for about eight years. Woah. And, yeah. And I found myself on this little island, and I didn't intend to stay there for very long. But I met, this man at the supermarket that ended up being my partner and stayed on that little island. So, ended up kind of moving myself into his house. And then, I mean, eight weeks later, we found out we were pregnant.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it was definitely, like, really scary, like, at the beginning. You know, I didn't know this man at all. I had literally just met him. We'd known each other, yeah, for eight weeks. I hadn't planned on being pregnant. I'd never had, I'd never been pregnant before. That wasn't something, like, on my radar at all. Wow. So, yeah, it was really scary. Like, when I listened to, the women's stories about conscious conception, and it all sounds so beautiful. But for me, it was really scary.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So, yeah. We kind of talked about what we would do and, you know, whether this is something that we're willing to jump in and and do together. And, at that time, he was working two full time jobs, so we didn't see each other very often. And, anyway, we yeah. We ended up deciding this is something that we were willing to do together. And I had always, I was born at home. So that's probably an important thing to note. I was born at home. My brother was born at home. So I knew that whenever I was to have children, it would always be at home. That was that wasn't a question. And, actually, my mother, when thirty years ago, when she gave birth to my brother and I, she was part of the home birth movement here in Australia. So she set up conferences with Jane Howard Collins, and she was very involved in what was happening here thirty years ago. And when I fell pregnant with my son, she said to me, you know, she came like, it was very sad for her because she had hoped thirty years ago that when she and her friends were doing all this great work, she hoped that birthing at home was gonna be something super normal and, like, very common when her daughter felt pregnant. So for her, she felt that, like, that, you know, she saw that the fight still had to be fought, and that, for her, was a bit sad. Totally. So so yeah. So, but there I was, like, on this island in the middle of nowhere. So the island's called Providenciales. It's in the middle it's in the islands of Turks and Caicos, but it's a very small little place. They have a tiny little hospital. Nobody has home births. The cesarean rate's really high. And, you know, I knew that that wasn't a place to birth. Mhmm. Also, that particular island doesn't have any fresh drinkable water Woah. On the island. So everything all the fruit and vegetables are imported. And that the fact that there's no fresh water on the island, it like, from the moment that I set foot on that island, I felt very uncomfortable. Mhmm. And the vibration on the island is very low. The energy is very low. And, like, I even if I was to free birth, I knew that that wasn't I didn't feel comfortable birthing on that island. It didn't feel like a place of life. So I knew that that I would have to leave. And I also didn't have a visa, to be on that island. I didn't have legal status, so I had to leave every ninety days. So I would fly to Canada, and I flew to Jamaica. I flew to Puerto Rico and did this all while I was pregnant. So I was still hitchhiking and, selling my jewelry, like, on the way. And I sort of didn't stop that kind of lifestyle. And then when I was seven months pregnant, I flew back to Australia. Well, he so he stayed on the island, in Turks and Caicos. Mhmm. We just call it Provo, so I'll just refer to it as Provo. Okay. Because it's called Providenciales, so it's like a shortening. And yeah. So he was in Provo, but he did come for the birth. He had come to Australia for the birth. He's from Haiti. Oh, and I forgot to mention that I did get a, I did get one ultrasound during that pregnancy. So when I was about, I would say about fifteen weeks pregnant, I went to a gynecologist, a private gynecologist on the island. She was from Germany and I had never, you know, I had never been like to a doctor really before. You know, I have never, I've been a healthy person my whole life, and I really have very limited experience with doctors and hospitals. And but, you know, I didn't know what to do. I thought that's what people did. So, I went to see her, and, she, you know, confirmed that I was pregnant, and I peed in a cup and all the regular stuff. And she did this tiny little ultrasound, and it took about five minutes. And she just said, if we'd said, yeah, the baby's healthy, and then turned off the machine. And it was very, like, just easy going. And she told me that she birthed her babies at home. And I said, yeah, I'm gonna give birth at home. And it was it was it was a positive interaction and it was short. But it was six hundred us dollars for that appointment.
Speaker 1
So you, other otherwise you just didn't see anybody. You just kind of did your
Speaker 2
own thing. Yeah. So then I just did my own thing for the rest of the pregnancy. And then, so I flew to Australia. I was seven months pregnant and I still, at that point, I still didn't know whether I would free birth or whether I would find a midwife. So I flew, but I didn't know anyone in Australia. I hadn't lived in Australia for a very long time. So when I flew here, I went I stayed at my dad's property, and I started to search around this local area for a home birth midwife and found that actually they're few and far between and they're really hard to get a hold of and they're really expensive. And I started to think, I think I'm just going to have this baby unassisted. I hadn't even, I haven't heard of the term free birth at that point, but I had, you know, I had lived in Jamaica where women just go to the river and give birth to their baby. I had lived in, in Cameroon in West Africa where it's a similar deal, and I had seen that happen. So I knew that that was normal. But, I would but I was in a place where I would have liked to have had a midwife if they were accessible, because I didn't see having a midwife, attending my birth as a negative thing at that point.
Speaker 1
Right. Because ideally, they're an absolute wonderful thing.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Ideally. Yeah. You know, unless they're there to mess up your birth. Right. So, so anyway, I was I wasn't finding one. And, I was I think I was thirty five weeks pregnant. And my my mom and I took a road trip, down south and I just ended up popping into a little shop. It was like just a, in a little kind of village in the mountains. And, I was in this like hippie shop with crystals and, you know, all these women were, you know, walking around wearing harem pants. And I'm like, there's no way these women go to the hospital to birth their baby. Like, that's crazy. And so I just asked around and yeah, one of the ladies said, oh yeah, like the lady just in the next shop, she just gave birth a couple of weeks ago. And, like, she knows she should know. And then, so I went and spoke to her and she got me in contact with, with a woman who was a local midwife. And she she was a registered midwife. And she gave me her phone number and we ended up having tea that afternoon, in a little cafe. She came to meet me there. And as soon as I met her, I was like, she's just like I fell in love with her. You know, she was barefoot, and she was wearing this really lovely flowing green dress, and she had her hair out, and she had all this armpit hair. And I was like, yes. I want you at my birth. And, she agreed to come to my birth, and she said, that sounds fantastic. But she told me that she actually had holidays planned for that time. So of when I was due. So she told me that she would attend my birth, but that, might that she might not be there, basically. So if I was to go, early, then I would just have the baby at home, and then she wouldn't end up charging me. And then if she and then if I gave birth after she got back from a holiday, then, of course, she would come and and then I would pay her the fee, if that makes sense. Mhmm. She ended up being available. I had my son on the twenty sixth of January. So I yeah. It was on a Monday that I went into labor. I had no pre labor or prodromal labor with my son, and he was posterior. So I went into labor at about eight thirty PM, on the Monday evening. And because I hadn't I had never felt what a contraction feels like before, and I had no sort of, like, easy pre labor. I was actually pouring myself a cup of tea when I felt the first contraction. And it shocked me so much that I spilled the boiling hot water all over my belly. Yeah. And I had a scar for about six months.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that was it was like really it was really violent. And I wasn't it just came out of nowhere. And, you know, I still don't know whether or not, like, the hot water might have, like, juggled him into a weird place or scared him, in my belly. But it was that was it was a very kind of, like, sort of violent beginning of labor. And, and then I had I had contractions that were very, very close together from the very beginning. So the the contractions were about sort of one or two minutes apart, lasting about thirty seconds from the get go. And so so, so, yeah, that was about eight thirty. I think I phoned the midwife. Oh, the other thing to mention is that my midwife lived four hours away from from me. That this is just the reality in rural Australia. Yeah. So, you know, so I was aware that, like, you know, I had read all of, like, Ina May and, like, all these birth stories, and I didn't wanna be that person that calls a midwife out super early. Mhmm. I don't know why. I just had that thing in my head. And so I was like, no. I'm not gonna call her. It's way too early, of course. But, I did phone her to tell her that I had started to be in labor. And she told me on the phone, you know, you should go down. Just go and rest and lie down and relax. And at that point, I'd only been in labor for about half an hour. But I was like, that is not a possibility. I was like, I was already It was on. From the very beginning. Yeah. I was already having to lean on the wall, breathing really deeply, needing pressure in my back. Like, it was on. Like, it was on. And she said, yeah. Just go lie down and rest. I'm like, no, lady. Like, this is like, we're not at that point. Yeah. So yeah. So then, I didn't we my husband and I went into, my bedroom to kind of labor together, and he was putting pressure on my back. And I didn't know, but my my dad so we were we had the baby. We gave birth at my dad's property. And, my dad didn't tell me, but at about ten thirty in the evening, he had phoned the midwife back and told her to get in the car and come. So, she ended up arriving about one AM or two AM. And my my my mom had two very easy, simple births at home. So, for my dad, to see me kind of like in that amount of pain and really struggling, he kind of freaked out a little bit and was like, oh, I really think the midwife should be here. Because I I think he thought that I was in transition or, you know, about to have the baby. So, anyway, yeah, we just kinda worked through the contractions. It was about five AM when oh, and I should mention, yeah, at this point, I definitely knew that the the baby was posterior. Mhmm. It was a very, like, it was a very distinct sensation between, like, you know, having having his his back rubbing against my spine and my lower back. That was a like a very clear pain. And then when the contractions would come on, the sensation of my uterus contracting and pushing my baby down was a very like, it was very easy to distinguish between those two sensations. And the the pain in my back didn't subside for the entire seventeen hours of of labor. Whereas the contractions of my uterus, they were, they would, you know, obviously come on. The the sensation would come on, and then the contraction would subside. And then I would I would get a rest from that particular sensation. And there was a there was a knowledge, that the the sensation of my uterus contracting was a healthy sensation. It felt like a good sensation, something that was healthy and and positive. And the pain in my back didn't feel that way. It didn't feel like it was normal or healthy. And and I just I knew that he was definitely posterior. And I said that a few hours in, and my midwife kind of just nodded and said she didn't really want to, you know, I don't think she wanted me to think that that was going to make the labor worse or or longer. Yeah. Anyway
Speaker 1
Yeah. There's so much energy around posterior, and I definitely have seen it be, you know, really hard, but I've also seen it not be, you know, so Exactly. I don't want anyone to get too freaked out.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I I hear women, you know, like, I think Laura Shanley had a pretty, like, straightforward posterior birth. And, like, women totally do. So, but anyway, and then, yeah, about five I think it's about five AM, I asked so my midwife was she's a very, like, calm and relaxed, like, quiet person. You know, she was just kind of sitting in the corner and chilled out and she's a very hands off person. And the interventions that I had during that birth were one hundred percent my, like decisions.
Speaker 1
So What do you mean? What interventions did you decide to have?
Speaker 2
Well, I had cervical exams. She checked me twice, and I ended up having her break my waters at about eleven AM. Mhmm. So and I I regret that decision one hundred percent. Yeah. But, and I regret the cervical exams as well. Yeah. I mean, like, they were useless. I mean, like, when when she checked me about five AM and told me that I was about five or six centimeters, that was just it was like, just like such bad news. Like in my head, it was,
Speaker 1
I know it does so much more harm than good psychologically, because if you, if you want a vaginal exam, you're probably not close to delivery. And so if you don't want one, because you're, you know, you're, you're, what's the word bearing down and you're growling. Well then, yeah, no shit. You don't want one because you're about to have a baby, but yeah, I mean, you know, although I guess I wanted one and wound up, you know, I was I was complete, but, you know, I I regret mine as well. Like, it doesn't Yeah. It's this, you know, it's an illusion of control and this illusion that we're gonna somehow be able to gauge out what's what's happening. And and obviously, we both know that's not true, and it's so heady. And yeah. I understand. I feel you.
Speaker 2
That was just like the stupidest thing. Like, I remember just feeling like that was just the stupidest decision to do that, to know that. And then that really, like, yeah, just, like I don't know. It just was then it was just a mind fuck from then on because I was constantly trying to tell myself that that, like, no, I'm not halfway. I'm probably more than halfway, and then these centimeters are gonna go faster. And, and then I was just thinking too much. And then it it made it much more difficult to just surrender and and and go with it. So that was definitely a bad idea. And to my to my midwife's credit, she was always trying to talk me against having you know, the first time I suggested that she was like, oh, why don't we wait a few more hours and and see? And so I think, you know, she probably knew that truth as well. Mhmm. Anyway, so, I ended up getting in the birth pool, probably at about eleven AM. My son ended up being born at two PM, by the way, so that you know the kind of time frame. But, yeah, I I think I got in a pool about eleven eleven AM. But I was still, like, I was still in, you know, in a lot of pain. He was still really high up. I could feel him kicking in my ribs. My midwife checked me again, and I she said I was still, like, probably a seven centimeters. So I was really, really like, I I just felt like I had a really long time to go. And having had an anterior birth recently, the diff the the really hard thing about that particular labor again, I'm not saying that all posterior births go like this, but the contractions with my son's birth felt incredibly inefficient. Like, every I he he honestly he felt like he was in the exact same position inside me for seventeen hours. He honestly felt like he didn't move. Yeah. He just the contractions were not getting him down at all. They just he wasn't descending. I didn't feel him descend the entire time. Right it wasn't until transition that he really descended. So he felt really stuck. Mhmm. And it was really hard, like, just feeling like, I didn't throughout the whole day, but I didn't get any sense of, like, you know, progress. Like, you know, my boombox broke my waters, and it didn't really do anything. I was in the pool. And I was exhausted also at this point. I had vomited, up everything I had eaten. I couldn't keep I couldn't even keep down water. I was incredibly nauseous. I had had no food at this point for the whole time. So that was another thing that was, a big mistake. I couldn't keep down any food. I couldn't keep down any water. I was severely dehydrated. I was exhausted. My my partner had to hold my head up in the water so that I wouldn't keep swallowing water. Oh. And then when I was in the birth pool that yeah. I was I was it was brutal. And I remember at one point, I remember at one point just just thinking that if this is, like, if this is how I I die, then that is okay. Totally. Like, I'm sure a lot of women can relate to that. Like, I remember literally being, like, thinking, you know, I've, like, I've had a pretty sweet life. Like, I'm twenty six. I've, you know, I was hitchhiked around the world for ten years. I've done some pretty cool stuff. You know, I've been in prison. Like, you know, I've had a pretty sweet life. I'm I'm done. Like, I am cool if this is it.
Speaker 1
You're like, just please let it be soon.
Speaker 2
It's like, I'm terribly done. And actually, Emily, I had this wild experience. This is something I wanted to mention where, you know and I'm sure a lot of women have gone to this place in labor where I actually left I actually left my body. And I remember floating, like, up in the ceiling of my dad's house, where we were in the library, and there were these bookshelves around. And I was just sort of floating, like, up the top where the skylight is. And I remember looking down and just thinking, like, wow. Like, that woman is in labor, and she's working so hard. And, like, just just staring and being a witness to the situation. And then all of a sudden being like, holy fuck, that's me in labor. And then I kind of just came down into my body again. And that was wild. Anyway, so at some point, I decided that, that my baby was stuck. And I really I really didn't have any energy left. I was totally drained. I, I really felt like I wasn't progressing. I had tried squatting. I had tried moving around. I had tried all sorts of different positions. Like I just didn't have anything left in me and my support team were not suggesting anything else or, or they didn't have anything to offer me. So and that was my midwife, my husband, my mum, and my dad were all there. And so I said to everybody, I think I need to go to hospital. I think I think I think the baby's stuck. Mhmm. And I couldn't think of anything else to do at that point. Like, I didn't have any other tools in my toolbox.
Speaker 1
Which sucks because that's literally what a midwife is supposed to be there for.
Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I really feel and and I was really disappointed that the people didn't have the reaction of, No, you can do it. And, you know, I was in transition, I later realized. I was in transition, I was doubting myself. And I was like, This baby's stuck. I can't do it anymore. I'm exhausted. And nobody had anything to offer me. Not even, you know, not even words of encouragement. Wow. And so, you know, and everybody there knew how adamant I was about having giving birth at home, and how, you know, anti hospital I was. So for me to say something like that, it was a pretty big fucking deal. And but no one said anything. And you know, when I look back to that, I think that's just that's not what they were there for. They should've been able to say something. And and surely, like, my mom or the or the midwife that had both had children could've told me, hey, you're probably in transition.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
But but not even that. So so we called an ambulance. And the midwife, she so where where my dad's property is, there's a small hospital, which is fifteen minutes away. And then there's a large hospital, which is an hour and fifteen minutes drive. But the small hospitals, five five or six years ago, stopped doing births, because they don't have an obstetrician on call. And that's a whole other story. But they refuse to take women in labor there. They send them to the the larger hospital. So, but I was thinking at this point, I was thinking maybe I just need like a drip like a drip or something. Maybe I just need to be like hydrated or I don't know. I had no idea what I needed. Right. Of course. But they they said to my midwife on the phone that they wouldn't take me to the smaller hospital, that they would have to take me to the the larger hospital that was a further drive away. And I could hear her having the conversation on the phone while I was getting out of the pool, and I yelled to her, just forget it then. Like, I'm not going to I'm not spending an hour and fifteen minutes in the back of the ambulance. Right? And so I was like, just forget it. I was just like, just forget it. And at this point, I was actually on all fours right next to the pool. I had just got out of the pool. And all of a sudden, I felt, the urge to bear down. I start pushing. And I was like, woah. What's this? And I did I did have, like, one, like, little push there, but it was it didn't feel like anything was really coming or anything was really happening. And then and then what happened was what the ambulance officers turned up at the house, and they pushed a, like, a stretcher, to kind of, like, the the with a my dad's house has, like, a little library and then, like, some steps down to the main room. And they put the stretcher there, and they said that I had to sort of I had to get myself on the stretcher, and that they couldn't lower the stretcher, which I thought was really odd. And it was really high. And everyone was saying, how the hell is she gonna get herself onto the stretcher? Like, that's crazy. And I was like, I can't get onto that. Like, I'm a whale, you know? Like, I'm in transition. Like, there's no way that's happening. Like, I could barely move. I mean, I every in the the previous three or four hours, no matter what I did or where I went, I had to have two people supporting me. I was that exhausted and that drained. And so my dad and my my partner were preparing to, like, literally lift me up onto the stretcher. And then, out of nowhere, my husband said that it looked like I was possessed. Out of nowhere, I basically just ran and like, jumped onto the stretcher. Like, put my leg really far. I had to lift my one of my legs really high up to get myself onto the stretcher. And then that's what did it. That's what, that's what, jiggled my son down. So I felt yeah. It was amazing. So then then I was on the stretcher, and in my head, I was like, woah. And then all of a sudden, all the the back pain was totally gone. And I just felt him right there. And, I mean, it was like this big kerfuffle. Like, my mom and dad were running into the garage to get into their car, and then the people were already wheeling me down out the doors and into the back of the ambulance. And there I am, like, holding like, I had my hand, you know, on my vagina thinking, this is my baby coming right now. Like, that's insane how he just, like, jiggled it down. Like, I was so internal at that point. And then all this stuff was happening. And then all of a sudden, I was in the back of the ambulance, and people are closing doors, and people are getting in. And I'm saying, no. Wait. The baby's coming. Wow. I'm saying, no. No. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. The baby's coming. And, we drove about a hundred meters down the road. And I just yelled, the baby's coming. Stop the car. And I just pushed, and he he came out right there.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. Were you in the ambulance when he came out?
Speaker 2
I was in the ambulance. Yeah. Wow. I was in the back of the ambulance. The midwife was with me. My husband was in the, front of the ambulance with the driver. And my my mom and my dad were driving behind the ambulance. So, you know, we just stopped and, well, like, we just turned around, went back to the house. Wow. So, Wait.
Speaker 1
They didn't keep trying to push you on to the hospital?
Speaker 2
No. No. No.
Speaker 1
That's interesting. I'm surprised they didn't wanna go to get you checked out.
Speaker 2
No. They they they asked me. They said, you know, do you wanna keep going or do you wanna go home? I said, no. We're going home. Thank you very much. And they ended up they ended up coming into the house. They were really nice. Both of the officers were really nice. One female and one male. They were crying, like and my mom was making them tea and muffins, and they were just kind of, like, you know, they were, they were, you know, they were, they were fine. They were nice. And, yeah. And then we just went back to the house, and, and I birthed the placenta there. But I felt really late.
Speaker 1
Did they all leave?
Speaker 2
They left after the birth of the placenta. Wow. Yeah. So they they asked me if I could they could stay for the birth of the placenta, because I had said I was gonna have a physiological third stage, and they said, can we wait? Because I guess they would have had some symptoms or whatever. But my midwife had some symptoms in our fridge anyway. Mhmm. So, but they asked if they could stay, and I said, that's fine. I mean, at that point, I was so exhausted and just relieved. I mean, I didn't so, yes. That was my son's birth. Wow. And it was pretty it was pretty it was pretty, like, you know, dramatic and chaotic. Didn't need to be. Mhmm. And and I felt stupid. I felt really, like, stupid about calling the ambulance and and then having it go down that way. But in at the end, when I think back, that that really getting on the stretcher was what trickled him down. And and I don't know if I would have had the strength to, like, you know, really make violent movements, to get him down, because that's what he needed. It was just a it was just a, like, a there was just a lot of drama. And it's funny, because that's, like, that's totally my son. My son is all about drama and chaos, and, like, he's super noisy and oh, and the other thing that happened, like, unbeknownst to me was that while they were filling up the while my dad and my mom were filling up the birth pool with hot water, we my dad's house ran out of hot water, So he climbed over the fence to the neighbor's house, and like, sort of broke into their house and hooked up a hot water hose from their laundry over the fence and into our his house. Oh, my god. Yeah. And then and then the hot water pipe burst in their inside their house, and their whole, like, laundry and house was flooded with boiling hot water.
Speaker 1
They weren't home?
Speaker 2
They weren't home. No. They we ended up right. I ended up having to, like, give them a bunch of money. Yeah. Oh.
Speaker 1
My god. Okay. So so then take me to your evolution of of free birth. I mean, obviously, you then free birthed your little girl. So what was Yeah. What was it, you know, in in the wake of that birth and, processing that and and, you know, unpacking it and then take me into this next pregnancy.
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. Well, I mean, I definitely felt like, you know, having my midwife there was not necessarily, like, you know, a positive addition. Like, she's a lovely person, but I you know, she didn't really participate in a very big way, in that birth.
Speaker 1
And And when you needed her to participate at the end, she didn't.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, neither did the other people there. Yeah. I think it was a big realization for me that, actually, I didn't need any of those people. Like, it wasn't just, okay, next time I give birth, I won't have a midwife. It was next time I give birth, I won't have anyone because they were all, like, fairly useless. I love them all, and it sounds like I'm being ungrateful for their support. But at the end of the day, it, you know, really it it wasn't it like, I had to go through that experience to realize that actually birth is not a team effort. Totally. It is you are the only person in the entire world that's gonna birth your baby. And if you take one hundred percent responsibility for it from the get go, from conception, then, you know, you're just in such a better mindset too. And I didn't do that with my son. I I thought, you know, I I really took on the whole event as if it was a team sport, and as if having having these people there and having the support, we're gonna do this together, you know, and we're gonna birth this baby together. And that just, so yeah. So I realized that.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, it's like when people say we're pregnant or we're having a free birth or we are, you know, it's like, no, I'm sorry. That is just that is factually untrue.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And it I, my point of realization of that was when I was in the pool and I knew he was stuck, And I was looking at these four adults in the room thinking, these people have nothing to offer me. Like, I I am the only person in the whole world that's gonna birth this baby. And it was an it was an hour before I birthed him. Mhmm. You know, I wish I had realized that months and months before. And so, so so when my son was four weeks old, we went back over to the Caribbean, and that's where we lived. So we were there until my son was about eighteen months old. And we weren't at this stage, we were not planning on having any more kids for a while, because we had a lot going on. And there was a really massive hurricane in the Caribbean in twenty seventeen last year, called Irma. You've probably heard of it. Yeah. Of course. It ripped through, like, a lot of the islands in the Caribbean. And my son and I left the island three days before the hurricane hit our island. And we flew to California. So, I so I that was at the end of August. And my husband was on the island for the hurricane. And my son and I were intending to, from California, continue on to Australia. So, it wasn't until I arrived in Australia, and I had been in Australia for a few weeks with my son, that I realized that I was pregnant. So Wow. I've I so I had seen my husband at the end of August. And yeah. And he and he he was in sort of post apocalyptic, you know, post hurricane situation. He didn't have any Internet or phone or or electricity or anything like that. So, it was really hard to get a hold of him to even talk about, the pregnancy. I remember the first very first time I got a hold of him and managed to, like, tell him that I was pregnant through, like, you know, the phone cutting in and out, he was just like, how? He was like, how? How was like, I was not even there. It's like like, it was like, I don't even remember, like, us having sex the last month that I was there. It was so stressful, and we were leaving. So we were both like, how is like, we were just like,
Speaker 1
what? Right.
Speaker 2
When did it even happen? Exactly. So so I didn't see my husband for the first four weeks of the pregnancy, The first four months of the pregnancy. Wow. So he stayed in the Caribbean. And I yeah. I was just hanging out in Australia with my son. And, yeah. I knew that I knew that I mean, I knew that I would free birth. I also knew that at that point, the midwife that I had had with my son had since deregistered, and was now not currently working as a licensed midwife. And I knew that I wasn't gonna seek out any other birth workers or birth keepers or traditional midwives. They're just I mean, they're few and far between. I wouldn't have been able to find one. Right. I was just like, you know, I'm just gonna do this on my own. And, so, yeah, I had a fairly unassisted pregnancy, although, I had I had a UTI in sort of early pregnancy, and I went in to see a doctor about the UTI. And I hadn't even it hadn't even clicked to in my head that that they would sort of say anything about the pregnancy or, like, in, you know, in try to manage my pregnancy. Like, and I hadn't, like, again, I really didn't have a lot of experience with doctors, so I went in and to just say, oh, you know, I have a UTI. I just need a little help with that. And, oh, by the way, I'm pregnant. And they're like, oh, you're pregnant. And then it was this big thing or where are you gonna birth and all these questions. And I was like, none of
Speaker 1
your fucking business, dude. How about that? You don't just become public property because you are carrying the miracle of life. My God.
Speaker 2
Yeah, and I was really taken aback. And I wasn't like, I didn't go in there, like, prepared for battle, you know? I I went in there just because I had a UTI, and I wanted some help with that. Mhmm. And and then I said, you know, I made them I had made the mistake of saying, oh, you know, I'm just gonna birth my baby at home. And then I was just, you know, I had this really negative reaction from this young female doctor. And I basically just said, look, you know, like, I came in here for help with the UTI, not for help with the pregnancy. Thank you very much. And I had to be it ended up being, like, a fairly confrontational experience.
Speaker 1
Damn.
Speaker 2
And and and shocking to me, because the only, experience I had had with the doctor, to do with pregnancy or birth or anything really at that point, was that nice doctor that I had seen, in my first pregnancy. So I was like, well, I'm not coming back here. That's for sure. And then I didn't yeah. I just sort of did most of my own prenatal care, throughout that pregnancy. I had a lot of morning sickness. I didn't have any morning sickness with my son, and they had a lot of morning sickness in the second pregnancy. And felt I felt very, like, very sort of insular and very quiet. Like, this pregnancy called for me to be very just to rest a lot, and to be at home a lot, and to just kind of like just sort of snuggle up and be quiet, and not socialize, or anything like that. So that was so nice in a way. Mhmm. And then my husband did arrive eventually when I was about five months pregnant. And then that was sort of our first opportunity to talk about the fact that I was pregnant. And the fact that we were having another kid, that was pretty scary. And it was a really stressful time for my husband and I because, you know, he had never lived in Australia before, and we had just moved here. We had no money, we had no house, we had no jobs. We I was already five months pregnant with our second kid. Like, it was Wow. That's so nuts. Yeah. Yeah. It was wild. And that, you know, I felt felt like, you know, like it I felt very felt I felt like the only person that was really which was, you know, a good thing in the end. I felt the only person taking responsibility for everything that was happening was myself. Mhmm. But but that felt good. That felt good too. And I I I did have I did get a referral for an ultrasound, and I did have an ultrasound this pregnancy with my daughter, and again, it's something that I regret doing. No. I absolutely regret both, now. And now that I've, like, you know, I'm much more educated about ultrasound now. I wish I had listened to Yolanda's podcast about ultrasound before I decided to have the ultrasound. No. It's messed up. Like, I've I've I've tried to unpack, like, why and and it wasn't like I wasn't having my pregnancy managed by anyone. So it was literally me. I went to a doctor. I got a piece of paper for a referral for an ultrasound. I took myself to an ultrasound, like It runs deep. Yeah. And and I and I sat down at the on the ultrasound on the bed, thinking that it would be a five minute thing. And when the, when the technician put the gel on my belly, she said, Oh, and I was like, I was like, this is late. I was like twenty eight weeks pregnant or something, maybe even thirty weeks pregnant at this point. Because I had wanted to do it when when my husband was with me. Mhmm. So I had waited all this time. And she said, oh, just to let you know, like, this could take up to an hour. And my reaction was like, up to an hour? Like, I was like, that's crazy. And and my husband had the same reaction. He was like, what? And the technician said, oh, yeah. It's because, you know, you've left it in too late in your pregnancy, and I have to get all these different measurements. And and it immediately felt like like a bad decision. And after about, after about halfway through, she she was like, oh, I probably need to get, like, all this. And then I needed to pee. And I was like, can I can I get up and go pee, please? And I went to go pee, and then we were I basically said, well, I think that's enough information. You know, surely, like, you have enough information that we and I I
Speaker 1
And they're like, wait. No. Actually, we don't have anything. We have some basic measurements, and we can tell that there's a couple limbs.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, you know, we saw the baby, like, going it was done. And I felt bad. I like, I walked out feeling really bad about the whole thing, and I was just like, oh, why did I do that? And then, like, for weeks, I mean, I still say it to my partner. I'm like, why the hell did I do that? Like, I don't understand why I did that.
Speaker 1
But you do, but you do like, you know why?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like
Speaker 1
that's, that's, this is the measure of health, the, the false, you know, measure of health of our generation. You know, it's, it's, you know, our grandmas weren't getting ultrasounds routinely. You know, it's, it's like, it's it runs so deep, you know, what does that say that even you having this wild pregnancy and this free birth, there's still this thing in you that, and I'm not targeting you because it's, it's everybody really just that, you know, that says like, I can't fully trust that I could be growing a baby without someone else who has more authority than me to take a peek and tell me that I'm okay. Yeah. And it would make more sense if that were actually true. Yeah. Like if ultrasound was a reliable technology, there would be more logic to, you know, to our loyalty to it. But because we know that it's so notoriously unreliable in every way, shape and form and causes objective harm, you know, that together, you know, and women still choose to get it for quote unquote peace of mind. It's it it it is it's fascinating.
Speaker 2
It's crazy. And and, you know, I knew that, like, you know, I didn't care about having like a Yeah. I knew that ultrasounds were notorious for due dates, and I didn't care about having a proper due date anyway. I didn't wanna know the gender. It's like there is literally no reason for doing it. I I I, like, I have no idea. I have no idea why. And Yeah. I still think about it and try and unpack it, and I just I can't understand it. But so anyway
Speaker 1
Why do you think you did it? Did you just not give it any thought? Like, you were just like, I'm just supposed to get one, or or was it a relief to see that there was four limbs or, you know, to have like you said it with your
Speaker 2
with your Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe it just comes down to that, like, you know, knowing that because I knew I would have a free birth. Maybe there was something inside me that thought that if there was some kind of condition or something up with the baby that that they would be able to tell me Mhmm. Then I could somehow prepare better for that. Or I don't know. But maybe that was it.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But, I mean, I now know that, you know, they're incredibly inaccurate, so any information would have been useless or probably just made the the rest of the pregnancy more stressful. Totally. Yeah. Okay. So Yeah. So so then I just, you know, have the rest of the pregnancy unassisted. I was doing lots of prenatal yoga and, keeping really healthy and, eating lots of really good food and preparing. Like, I prepared a really lovely birth altar and, space. And, I did a lot of preparation. I, I was contacted by my yoga teacher, knew a woman who had just finished her doula training. Mhmm. And so I was contacted by a woman that was, looking to, sort of, like, do more births and have more experience at, at birth. So I met her, and I agreed for her to be my doula, to come to my birth. And it's funny because then, actually, she received some I mean, she was just a doula. She had just come out of doula training, and she was she was told by a few people in the area. This is a really small town, that she shouldn't attend my birth and that she shouldn't attend fevers and that she was somehow legally, like Mhmm. Liable. Like, she even she even came to me at one point. I mean, I met her when I was about thirty five weeks pregnant. So I was very late in the pregnancy. But when I was about thirty seven or thirty eight weeks pregnant, she even asked me if I would sue her if something went wrong. And I was just like, you you're gonna be at my doula. Like, there's none. Am I gonna sue you for, like, not having the heat pack warm enough or, like, saying the wrong words.
Speaker 1
But it's because women cannot be trusted to hold their own authority over their birth. And so if there is another woman there who's read a birth book, she instantly gets seen as having authority over you because you are a powerless woman. You know what I mean? That's the it's so messed up. It's so gross and it, you know, really ultimately what it's doing and it's actually doing it quite successfully except for the radical birthkeepers out there, shout out to you all, keep doing what you're doing, But, you know, for the vast majority of women, you know, culture has effectively scared women from supporting women to birth on their own terms. You know? I mean, it's so, so tragic.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I also got, like, a weird phone call from from the hospital that from the medical clinic that I had gone when I had that UTI. They had somehow, like, taken it upon themselves to manage my pregnancy, or they had obviously put a note that I was pregnant. And I got a phone call towards the end of my pregnancy from a midwife connected to that clinic. And she just sort of said, hey, how are you? Blah blah blah. And she explained who she was, and she asked me how I was going with my pregnancy or who I was seeing for the pregnancy. And I was it was she ended up we ended up having, like, a very strange conversation, and she was trying to get information out of me about Mhmm. Where I was gonna birth my baby and if I was gonna hire a midwife and,
Speaker 1
Look. Take it from me. Nobody likes to get into more people's business than a woman
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Daring to dissent and daring to take authority over her own experience.
Speaker 2
Jesus Christ. Yeah. That's insane. So that was a really weird conversation. And, yeah. And then that was pretty much the end of it. And then I was, thirty eight I was thirty nine weeks. I was almost forty weeks, when I went into labor, and I was at home with, oh, I went into labor on the Friday. So it was, it was a Friday evening. I had gone to sleep and it was about two AM in the morning and I had some very early labor. I had a, like, a very mild contraction, sort of like one every thirty minutes, from two AM till about five AM, during the evening. And they I would fall asleep during the contraction and the contraction sorry. In between the contraction, and then the contraction would wake me up. And but then they stopped and I went back to sleep. And then Saturday morning, I got up and I mentioned, I think, to my husband, but I had had a couple of contractions during the evening, and but they had stopped. But there was a something told me that I needed to buy more nettle tea. So I was like, I need more nettle tea. I was like, I don't have enough nettle tea and I think I'm going to have this baby in the next few days. So I got my son in the car and I drove, into town to buy some more tea and I had a couple of contractions while I was in town. But they were just super, super mild. They were like, I was aware that they were contractions, but they were very mild and very manageable. And I went home and they started back up again at about three PM that on the Saturday afternoon. And again, they're about one every thirty minutes. And they were super mild. Like, I could talk through them. I could do whatever I was doing through them. They were very, very, very mild. And but I was really excited to feel what early labor feels like because I hadn't had that with my son. I was like, this is so cool. Like, you get to prepare shit. Mhmm. Like, I went into the room and set up my candles and, made sure I had the football and the yoga mat and, pulled the curtains down. And I just it felt so amazing to have that sort of mental space to prepare that in the next coming days, this baby will come. So I really feel like I didn't have that with my son. And so, yeah, my my husband went to work, and my dad we we were still living at my dad's place at this point. So, my dad had gone to a meeting, and, yeah, it was just me and my son. So it was me and my my two year old son, at the house. And it was fun. Like, it was really fun being in early labor with my son. Like, we, we had a bath, and, like, then my son loves dancing. So I had made four different, birth playlists, and one of them was for, like, dancing the baby out. So, we I put on this dance playlist, and me and my son were dancing, like, naked, like, in the bedroom, and, like, dancing the baby out. And my son was super prepared for the baby coming. We had read all these books and talked about it. And every time I had a contraction, he would, like, come up behind me and look into my butt and see if the baby was coming. That's cute. And he would say, baby coming? And I would say, no. Not yet. And he was just, like, the coolest little birth attendant. And he was just super sweet. And, yeah. And then I had so that was about, I don't know, it was about five PM at this point. And the contractions were still, like, very, very mild. You know, just like yeah. Again, I could talk through them. They were I could be in any position. They were very, very mild. I think at about five thirty, I prepared dinner for my son. So, we cooked some food together. And then, at five thirty, my dad walked through the door, and he had come back from his meeting. And I said to my dad, I'd really love for you to hang out with my son now, and I can go into the bedroom by myself and just labor and be by myself. I didn't I didn't need to. Like, it wasn't at the point where I had to really go in, but I really wanted to. Like, I really I really wanted to enjoy this labor and put on my music and put on my candles and just go and be by myself. I really desired to do that. And so he said, sure, no worries. So he took my son, into his room on the other side of the house, and they were in there. And I was just laboring by myself. At this point, I had text my mom and my doula that I was in labor. And my mom lives an hour away, so she had started to head over. But I hadn't text my doula to come yet. And then, yeah. So I had about an hour to myself, from about five thirty, in the bedroom. My daughter was born at ten past seven. So, from about five thirty to six thirty, I think I was alone in the bedroom. And it was just the most beautiful time. Like, it was just really just really peaceful and enjoyable, and I just loved it so much. And, again, the contractions were super manageable, and I was doing lots of yoga. I was doing cat cow, and downward dog, and just listening to this amazing playlist that I had made, and dreaming about my baby, and, speaking out my affirmations. And I was just super excited. And at this point, I thought probably the baby would be born, you know, maybe about ten o'clock or eleven o'clock. My husband usually gets home from work at about ten PM. So, I thought, oh, I'd probably be around then, and if it's earlier, I'll just call him home. And I think at about, must have been about six thirty that my mom turned up, And she came into the room and she was just kind of hanging out. And because of how I was sort of behaving, she felt like, oh, I must still be in really early labor. So she was really relaxed. And I asked her to get me some snacks and some more coconut water. And my son helped her cut up the watermelon, and he bought me he bought me snacks while and he came into the room, and he was really calm. He was really cool. He he, you know, he asked me about the baby coming, and, I said that the baby's coming really soon and that I needed snacks and water. And just like, okay, you know, I'm gonna get you the water, and he was on it. And, I had a few I think the first sort of contractions that I had to really moan and roar through were probably around, like, twenty to seven. Maybe or quarter to seven. Wow. And so, yeah, that was really the first, like at that point, like still at twenty to seven, I thought that I had hours and hours to go. Because it was just very, very mild, and very relaxed, and really enjoyable, and I was just having lots of fun, and it was great. And then all of a sudden, in about quarter to seven, I just had this knowledge come to me that the baby was coming now. Like, the baby was coming right now. And it was just it was amazing. I was like, woah. That's okay. Like, let's get ready. And I said to my mom to call my partner and to call my doula, but they both didn't make it in time. So, she left the room to call them, and I was alone in the bedroom. And, yeah, I just had a few, like, maybe about five or six really, like, intense, like, wild, like, roaring like a lioness contractions, and they were amazing. Like, they felt so good. And that was a really amazing thing for me when I birthed my daughter. Every single contraction, even from the beginning, even the early labor ones, they felt so efficient. Mhmm. Like, every single contraction, I could feel her. It felt like she was descending an inch every single contraction. Like, it just I mean, obviously, it wasn't that much, but it felt like she just was like, she was, like, on it. She was, like, yes.
Speaker 1
And all that all that grinding work with your son, you know, did in a way literally paved the way.
Speaker 2
Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. But it just, it just was such a phenomenal feeling. How confident building. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I was like, this baby is on it. Like, she is like, and I didn't know the sex at that point, but I was like, you know, she's she's really on top of it. She's doing a really good job. And so, yeah, I had, I still had my pants on at this point and I started to freak out about my pants. So I was yelling at my mum. My mum wasn't in the room and I was yelling, mom, you gotta get my pants off. Because I I couldn't quite get them off myself. I was on all fours with my elbows leaning on the bed. So, my mom was behind me trying to take my pants off. And I was like, this baby's coming now. And I just had a few roaring contractions, and I could feel her head really coming down, really crowning. And I had, like, quite recently listened to your birth story, on the podcast. And I had this moment of fear come into me thinking, how could I possibly be ten centimeters dilated at this point? How could I possibly be fully dilated when I haven't even had, you know, painful contractions at all? And so I reached inside, and felt her head right there. And she was still in her little sack. And it was the most phenomenal thing. And her head felt so tiny. It was like touching like a little tennis ball, like a little slippery tennis ball. And I was just, I said to my mom, it was just my mom and me in the room at that point. And I just whispered to my mom, I said, she's like, the baby's coming. The baby's right there. She's coming. And, yeah, and I just had one more contraction and she her little head popped out. And my mom was kneeling behind me, so she could see her little scrunched up face. And, my mom said to me, should I call, should I call dad and Ollie? My son's called Ollie. And I said, yeah, yeah, call them in, call them in. And so, they came running from the other side of the house. And just as my dad and my son entered the room, her whole little body just slipped out. And so, they saw her little body come out, and then, I called her and pulled her up, to my chest. And everyone was just really silent and, just in, like, disbelief Mhmm. Pretty much. I was just like, wow. It just just popped out so quick. And I only really had about, like, like, contractions that I really had to roll through. I was only about five and they were they were pretty intense, but I wouldn't describe them as painful at all. And that was only from about six, maybe six forty five, and she was born at ten past seven. So it was really, really, really fast. And how did you feel after it? I felt amazing. Yeah. I felt phenomenal. Like, I felt, yeah, it was just really peaceful and really happy and, really powerful. Yeah. I just felt it just felt yeah. It just felt great. It just felt as it should be. Yeah. And it it also felt really simple. Just really simple and really easy. And, yeah, really peaceful. And everyone just sat down. And, and my son Like, this was the moment that was really special for me. My son came up, and he wanted to be really close to the baby, and he just, like, he touched her little tiny top of her head. And, Oh, and I, you know, obviously, I looked down and I saw that she was a girl, and, that was a pretty phenomenal moment. I had really wished for a girl, and I was really hoping for a girl, so that was really, really sweet. But, yeah, having my son just, like, touch her so gently, and he touched her little tiny ear, and he said, Oh, her ears are so little. It was just such a sweet little moment. And, you know, I was able to say to him, yeah. Look, the baby's here. And you have a little sister. And he he was just over the moon. And he was just so, so happy and so so gentle with her. And, you know, he really understood the whole process, and, that for me was really important. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Yep. And then oh, and then my partner walked through the door about two minutes later and saw that we had a daughter. And and then my doula turned up about five minutes after that. So they they both missed the birth, but, they were there for you know, I delivered the placenta and, had a shower and got into bed. And we had my son cut the cord because that was a tradition. My son my my older brother cut my umbilical cord when I was born at home with my parents. So it was something that I really wanted to do. So, we waited about three hours or four hours, but it was getting close to midnight and my son really needed to go to bed. So we decided, okay, we'll just plan to cut the cord and we, you know, I I held our little daughter, and I said, you know, I asked for her permission for us to cut the cord, and, you know, we thanked the placenta for everything, that it had done. And and, you know, I said to her that I'm gonna be the one to nourish her from now. And we cut we just used some dental floss, and, my son cut the cord with the help of my partner, obviously, with scissors. And yeah. And then everybody went to bed, and, we snuggled up. And I snuggled up with my daughter. And, oh, that's the other thing is that I was just, like, high. Like, I I I couldn't sleep for the first I mean, that whole night, I didn't sleep at all. I just stared at my daughter for eight hours. Just literally stared at her face. I was like it I I honestly felt like I was on LSD. It felt very similar to being on acid. Mhmm. And I didn't have that experience with my son. And it was about it went on for about four days. Every Well, there was a lot
Speaker 1
of drama around that first birth that you didn't Yeah. Yeah. You got, like, the pure interrupt uninterrupted oxytocin magic with that second birth.
Speaker 2
Totally. Totally. And it was wild. Like, I just every every color, like, especially being outside, like, in nature, like, all the colors were so vibrant and, like, my senses were so heightened. Like, I my sense of smell and my hearing and everything, it was, like, just felt so wild and vibrant and amazing. And, and she didn't, she didn't latch on when she was born. She my son latched straight away. And she when she was born, she didn't latch, and she didn't seem very interested in latching. She was just tired and so I let her you know, she obviously slept and so she didn't latch until, you know, almost ten hours after her birth when she woke up on the Sunday morning. Mhmm. So that was something that I was thinking about during that time I was well as cause I had only had the experience with my son and I thought, gosh, is she going to latch when she wakes up? I hope she latches when she wakes up. And yeah, of course she did. She woke up on Sunday and she was just like ravenous and latched perfectly, and she was like, yes. Like, give it all to me.
Speaker 1
I love that.
Speaker 2
And yeah. So You know,
Speaker 1
it's like, because we have all these rules. Like, a baby has to nurse before, you know, the first twelve hours of life, and a bit you have to wake a baby up every two hours, and da da da da
Speaker 2
da da.
Speaker 1
And then I interview free birthing moms, and they always have something that goes against all of that that still is is beautiful and, you know, intuitive and and just goes against all these rules.
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah. I mean, she was fine. Like, she was just she was having a really nice, good, solid nap. And, yeah, she slept for eight hours straight and didn't make a peep and then woke up and was like, yes. Give me as much poop as possible right now, please. I love it. Yeah. That's awesome.
Speaker 1
It's a crazy
Speaker 2
story, ma'am. The only, the only thing that I had after that the after her birth as well was I had and this is something that I think a lot of women don't speak about or or you know, it's not mentioned very much is that I had really, really intense afterpains Mhmm. After her birth, that were a thousand times more painful than the labor itself. So I when she that, that morning, on a Sunday morning when she started to latch on, I had, really wild, like, very painful afterpains, and I had them for seventy two hours.
Speaker 1
Did anything help?
Speaker 2
Nothing helped. I hadn't I I tried mother wart, tincture. I tried a few things. Nothing really helped. And they were they they were they were, like, constant when she would nurse, when she would latch on. But when she wasn't breastfeeding, it was also, like, almost consistently every twenty minutes for the next seventy two hours, I had wild, like, incredibly painful afterpains. And they were so painful that I was, like, I was crying, I was moaning, I was smashing my fist against the wooden bed to try and distract myself from the pain. Mhmm. And,
Speaker 1
that's so unfair.
Speaker 2
It's just so unfair. I was like, what? I was like, I just had this, like, badass, like, wild free birth. It was painless, literally painless. It was just the easiest, most simple thing. And then, you know, it's like you can't get away without something. Mhmm. Well, I
Speaker 1
love your story. It's awesome. It's just so badass. And, you know, it's I love these stories because they're just ultimately quite simple, and it's so powerful. And I could totally picture her just popping out with with your
Speaker 2
man coming in after. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Well, I'm
Speaker 1
really I'm really proud of you, and and I appreciate you sharing your story today.
Speaker 2
Thanks so much. Thanks for allowing me to share.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
