Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.
Speaker 1
This week, we're joined by Kate from New Hampshire who free birthed both of her children. Kate shares how she decided birthing independently with her first child was the safest decision for her family. In the telling of her birth stories, she tells us about how she cried on the phone to Ikea customer service in early labor in one birth and even went to a doula interview in early labor in the next. Kate's stories are such a perfect example of how simple, but yet highly individual each person's births are. And as always, we get into a talk about doulas and midwives.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I guess it was kind of like a a long arc for me, and I'm I tell people how grateful that I am that I came to all this birth stuff before I was pregnant. I was really interested in birth a long time before I got pregnant. Even a long time before I met my partner that I got pregnant with. And I just feel so grateful that I was so informed well in advance that it really was such a quick jump to free birth. It was so easy to jump to free birth from where I was at right before I was pregnant. So when we got married, my husband and I in twenty fourteen, well, I guess the first time really is I had stayed in the business of being born, which is so cliche for like every every doula, you know?
Speaker 1
Yeah, but it's like a staple.
Speaker 2
Being born. It totally is. And, you know, I saw that pretty soon after it came out, probably I think I was maybe nineteen or twenty at the time. And I am really easily turned by things like that, and I saw it, and I was just like, I can't believe this is how birth really is and what our system does to it. And I was just so, you know, flabbergasted, really. So even though at that time, I really was so far away from even thinking about having kids, honestly, at that point, I didn't even really know that I wanted kids. But after watching that, I was like, I want to have babies. I want to give birth. I want to do this at home. And I just knew, you know?
Speaker 1
And it's so crazy because the business being born, you know, not only does it only begin to scratch the surface, it doesn't really highlight real undisturbed physiological birth, and, you know, it doesn't support, or promote truly autonomous, you know, you know, independent birth either. So it's so, it's so interesting, right, that this this movie became such a staple, and then where we are, which is, like, so many steps beyond that, to one side, you know, then to discover how many more layers there are beyond the the really, quite frankly, the very, like, basic stuff that it brought up.
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah. No, that's so accurate. Because I watch it now and I'm like, oh, I kind of don't even like what's happening here.
Speaker 1
Totally. We gotta make we if anyone's listening to this and they wanna fund this project, we we need to make, like, the sequel to that, but it's all about undisturbed birth.
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 1
Alright. Sorry. Go back. Go go.
Speaker 2
That. I saw that, and it was just like always there for me. I was always interested in birth. And then when I started dating my husband, my now husband in two thousand eleven, I think, maybe it was in early two thousand twelve, we just randomly got on topic of babies. I'm sure we were watching, you know, something on TV and maybe a birth happened and I was like, yo, just so you know, I'm having babies at home. Mhmm. Whether that's with you or, you know, whoever, but that's just, you know, I'm just telling you that right now. And he reacted, like, what are you talking about? That's insane. You know, the usual response. And I told him, like, no. You have to see this documentary. And I'm so sorry, Ricky Lake, but I pirated your movie that minute. And I put it on.
Speaker 1
Come on. It's free on Netflix.
Speaker 2
I know. I didn't have Netflix at the time. And it's free on YouTube now too.
Speaker 1
Oh, is it?
Speaker 2
But it is. Yeah. You can watch the whole thing on there. I send the link all the time, actually. Nice. I'm sure she's good with it. Yeah. I I did fund your new project, Ricky, so I'm really sorry.
Speaker 1
Totally. I do too. So then did you watch it with him?
Speaker 2
I did. Yeah. I made him watch it that night. And right after, he was like, Holy shit. We're never going to the hospital to have a baby. Wow. And right then, I was like, Thank God. You know, we can move on with this relationship. You know? So I got the hard stuff out of the way, you know, long before. I know so many women. I hear them talk about how difficult it is to even convince their partners to have a home birth once they're pregnant. You know? So I am just so grateful that that was not even an issue for us because it was addressed very early in our relationship and it was just settled. You know? There was no question about it. And then after you
Speaker 1
got married Just just to be clear, but this was kind of, I'm assuming, was assumed midwife attended. Right?
Speaker 2
Yes. Absolutely. Yes. And and that was my assumption too. I really thought, like, of course, I'll have a midwife. I I really didn't even I don't know if at that point yet I had even considered free birth. I don't think it was on my radar at all. Although, looking back now, I I think that I had heard of it, and I'll get to that in a little bit. But, yeah. No. It was definitely, like, of course, we're gonna have a midwife. We're just gonna have our babies at home. Mhmm. You know, the normal way that people have home births. Quote unquote. So, you know, that was, like, a nonissue moving forward. And we started trying to get pregnant basically right when we got married. And I had really just super irregular cycles for a long time. And my mom had fertility issues. She needed assistance to get pregnant. And so I just kind of got in my head like, Oh, my God. Am I, you know, going to have issues with this? And I was kind of into fertility awareness, but not not super into it like I am now. So I I really, I felt kind of fearful about it. And when I thought about, like, you know, what if I can't have a baby on my own, it made me really sad that I would never, you know, get to experience that that home birth. And it made me think that maybe midwifery was a career path for me. So I started looking into that and researching. And I actually talked to a few different schools, and I sent out, like an email to a bunch of midwives around about, you know, potential apprenticeship in the future and that kind of stuff. And, you know, the the short version, I guess, is that most people were saying, you know, try out doula stuff first. And I did. I went and I took a doula training, and I, I went to a to labor doula training, which is kind of more on the radical end, really, but more on the radical end of, like, the mainstream organizations. And I loved it. And part of the reading list, I read the book Pushed right before my train
Speaker 1
Changed my life.
Speaker 2
It totally just changed my perspective on so many things. It me thinking about the legal issues. And, Yeah.
Speaker 1
For anyone who hasn't read that, Pushed by Jennifer Block, it is top of my list to learn about the maternity system in in America.
Speaker 2
It is great. It's a wonderful book. And it just got me angry
Speaker 1
and kind
Speaker 2
of afraid of even having a home birth with a midwife, to be honest with you. And after my training, we actually got pregnant the very next month, so like four weeks after I completed my doula training, I got pregnant. And I think, like, right around the time, I probably didn't even know that I was pregnant at the time, but I started being really concerned about hiring a midwife, and I looked up, the midwifery rules in my state. It's a licensed regulated profession here. And I looked up the rules, and I read through them, and it just scared me. There were so many different things that just sounded like it was out of my control. And, I mean, our our rules here are certainly not nearly as bad as I've seen in a lot of states, like Arizona and and whatnot.
Speaker 1
But What state are you in?
Speaker 2
I'm in New Hampshire.
Speaker 1
And so what were do you remember some of the the rules and regs that stood out to you, that freaked you out?
Speaker 2
Well, I know it it might sound, like, not so scary to some people, but just the fact that a mid a midwife would have to transfer your care if you, you know, had multiples, if your baby was breech, which we all know are pretty standard things for them to, you know, have to transfer for in regulation and that kind of thing. But, just all the stuff that they talked about in prenatal care and, like, Pap smears and, you know, dilation and, you know, whatever. Just reading all this stuff that they had to adhere to just it wasn't even anything in particular. It just made me feel like I wasn't in control.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I think, really, the most specific things that really scared me were that, there's lists of things that they have to consult an OB or a certified nurse midwife on, like, if you're in this situation during labor or before you have to consult with an OB and basically get their opinion or whatever. And just reading that, I was just like, what the you know, why does somebody who I don't know, I don't care, to know it at all, you know, I don't want to know them, and just why would they have any influence in this process? Why would my middle wife not be be that decision maker? And furthermore, why does the state have any influence on this at all?
Speaker 1
Yeah. It really starts to reveal.
Speaker 2
Party. Totally. Yeah. You know, I just got really scared that, you know, something would happen that was out of my control. I would be labeled higher risk. You know, maybe I would have gestational diabetes or whatever, not that I really think that that's really a thing anymore. But, you know, it it just scared me. It really did. It just scared me that I would be in a situation where I wasn't in control, and where my midwife wasn't even in control, you know, where they're they basically are just answering to this OB or whatever, or they're, you know, answering to the state because they wanna protect their license.
Speaker 1
Right. And no there nobody's really outside of the medical no one's really outside of the medical system. Like, that's what people don't really seem to understand. A a licensed midwife is a part of the medical system, and they answer to the medical model in a very big way. And it's you know, but but the way it gets portrayed is that it's the alternative to the medical model, which is one hundred percent not true. Nobody bringing IV fluids and antibiotics and pitocin and oxygen, you know, that that has OBs that they refer to and work with and answer to, like you said, that follows rules and regulations set up by the medical model. Is any even remotely outside of that paradigm? That is the paradigm.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And also the fact that not only would that midwife be at my birth, I I wanted a doula. And just thinking about the amount of people that that would invite into my home, it would be my doula, it would be a midwife, and then it would be the midwife's assistant who I might not even know, depending on who I hired, just freaked me out. And I remember at that point, I think I I recalled seeing this film just totally randomly. My memory just recalled this, that this probably, like, three or four, maybe even five years earlier. I had been at my parents' house while they were on vacation somewhere. I was like cat sitting or something. And, you know, and I was watching it was probably the Discovery Channel or something like that. And a documentary, a British documentary called Extraordinary People Outlawed Birth came on, just totally out of the blue. And I really can't even imagine that this would be aired on TV today. I feel like that there's, like, no chance at how that it would have aired. But I watched this, and it was about women in the UK rebirth thing. And for some reason, this just, like, popped right back in my mind, and I was like, oh, I've seen something about women doing this. And I looked it up, and I watched it again myself, and then I had a conversation with my husband. I really don't even think I was pregnant at this point, or I just wasn't even aware that I was. And I had this conversation with my husband, like, what what would you think about not having a midwife? And, you know, he kinda brushed that off, and it wasn't really a topic. I didn't press it or anything because it wasn't, you know, necessary. And I think I made him watch that documentary later when it became more important to me. But we found out we were pregnant, and then I did start calling around and talking to some midwives, and I just didn't get the vibe that I wanted from them. It just didn't feel right. And I remembered one midwife, that was talked about during my to labor training. She's local. She's in Boston, about an hour away from where we live. And I remembered her, so I looked her up. I just remember her being kind of a radical, I guess. I I wouldn't have used that term at the time, but now I I would. And I called her and talked to her, and I don't know what came over me, but I told her I just felt safe talking to her. I told her, just so you know, my options right now that I'm thinking about are either hiring a midwife, which I'm not really sure about, or having a free birth. And her response was so positive. It just just made me feel so relaxed. She told me, I'm great friends with Laura Shanley. She's stayed at my house before. I believe that babies will just be born. You know? I'm I don't really do a whole lot, and birth happens. You know? And she just made me feel so okay and at ease. And I was like, why am I even talking to you? You know? That's sick. I don't need you.
Speaker 1
That's what's unique. Right? That's what I'm loving about this story is that you you weren't seeking somebody to hold and not that there's anything at all wrong with this. It's just unique that you weren't you already had the confidence in the birth and you were really looking for, kind of permission to fully embrace that. It sounds like through through this exploration versus, you know, I think most people go through the process, understandably because of the way we're trained, of like, who's going to save me from this.
Speaker 2
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1
And you were like, who's going to not fuck it up?
Speaker 2
Yeah, I was really scared of of who I would invite in that space. I'm really big on that. Every intervention or every person at your birth is an intervention. And I just felt just afraid, honestly, of most of the people that I talked to. But this woman just made me feel so relaxed and at ease. And, her fee was double what everybody else was charging. You know, because she's that's just what it is. She's in Massachusetts and just people spend a lot more on all of these kinds of things there. So I told my husband, I was like, look, we can either have a free birth, or if you're adamant about having a midwife, which I would never would have, you know, even said now. That's just
Speaker 1
I
Speaker 2
wouldn't allow him to have that kind of power. But I said it. I said, you know, it's either we have a free birth, or we spend six grand to hire this midwife. And, you know, when he heard that I was, like, trying to get his permission to not spend six thousand dollars, it was, like, okay. Sure. So that was just, like, the easy way to convince him, basically, and then that was it. We we didn't really talk about it anymore. It was just we're having a free birth.
Speaker 1
Nice. And how pregnant were you?
Speaker 2
First trimester, probably eight weeks, maybe. Maybe even less.
Speaker 1
And do you do you really feel like he was fully down?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I do. Awesome. Not not in, like, a thrilled, like Right. Excited, you know, but in his own, like, yeah, whatever. I trust you, kind of. Hey.
Speaker 1
That's that's all you need, really.
Speaker 2
That's that's all I needed. I don't need anybody to be, like Yeah. Doting on me and figuring out how, you know, to support me in, like, the most amazing possible ways. I just need somebody to say, I trust that you know what's right for you. And Mhmm. And he did. So that was it. Beautiful. I love that.
Speaker 1
Wish we saw more of that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Me too. I know that I feel horrible that that more people don't have that. I, that it's such a common thing that I see in all the three worst group where women are asking, how can I convince my partner? And I just don't have that.
Speaker 1
And I mean, also the next step to that is it, it does start and end with us. Like, yes, we're in a patriarchy. Yes. We've been trained to be submissive. Yes. We're socialized to let our husbands make our decisions for us. Yes. We were property for a very long time. Like, yes, all of that is why we have this kind of languaging and framework. Okay? But moving forward, when we know that and when we feel, when we feel or we are trying to feel, powerful and, autonomous, you know, there's a point where, you know, even if, like, even if your partner wasn't supportive or even if mine wasn't, you know, I know for a fact that if, if my partner wasn't down, that would have been a really, huge litmus test, you know, for our entire relationship.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Because Yeah. Because to me, that says you don't respect me. You know, if you're gonna over insert yourself into my experience, yes, it's our baby, but it's my experience. And it's, you know, it's the baby that comes through my body. You know, and so maybe it's a different conversation once the baby's out. Maybe it's not. But, you know, that that it really is a litmus test for the whole relationship. And so, yes, that's so wonderful that, you know, you and I both didn't have to navigate this lack of support. But also, if we didn't have it, it would have been like, cool. I'll call you when the baby's here. Like, and and I don't know if I'll be able to stay with you, quite frankly. For me, I don't know how it would have been for you, but it would have
Speaker 2
just No. I I'm not sure that it I was quite at that point then, but I certainly am now, and I certainly was by my second baby. So
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
If anything weird would have happened, I certainly yeah. But that would have been a peace out for me. Yeah. So yeah. So it was very early that we decided that I decided Mhmm. That I was having a pre birth. And you know, the other thing about that midwife Yeah. It just would have been so much work because she was saying I would have to go to Boston for prenatal care. And, you know, when that's once a month, I guess that's fine. But at the end, when it's every other week and then every week, that just sounded like so much work to me. Like, just something I did not want to do at all. Mhmm. Having to drive down an hour while I was heavily pregnant and Yeah. That kind of thing. It just sounded awful to me. I'm such a homebody. I am that person who will literally sit at home for a week straight and not be bothered by it. You know? So just thinking about having to leave my space and worry about like being there on time and, you know, whatever, it just sounded horrible to me. So I was really happy that that was not going to be a part of my pregnancy. And
Speaker 1
So then what did your pregnancy look like from then onwards? You didn't sound like you've seen anybody.
Speaker 2
I ate a lot of ice cream and I gained too much weight. I took my blood pressure semi regularly, but not really. I had a fetoscope. And to labor training, we actually learned how to use a fetoscope. So I was like, oh, yeah. I'll get a fetoscope, and I'll I'll listen to the baby, and that'll that'll be cool. So I occasionally did that, but not really with any
Speaker 1
Tell me a little bit about your decision to not do any prenatal care because, as you know, a lot of women free birth, but a lot of women who free birth also go through the motions with a doctor or a midwife. And so what was it just kind of a no brainer that you wanted to have this wild experience and not have any management from the get go?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I just didn't even if I had a home birth, I I would have refused all of those things. I I didn't want my blood drawn. I didn't want urinalysis. I didn't want GBS testing. I didn't want diabetes testing. You know, all these things. I just did not put any stock in those things. The
Speaker 1
And you had the The
Speaker 2
things didn't matter to me.
Speaker 1
Totally. And you had the blessing, like you said at the beginning, of already knowing so much of what you were gonna walk into because you had already all this exposure to birth culture.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Which is so huge, man. So many women, I I believe, would would not opt in to all of this stuff if it wasn't just sprung on them, you know, in the moment.
Speaker 2
Well, and I think one of the other things about how hard it is sometimes for women to convince their partners and even convince themselves after they've already been through that system, even if they've been traumatized by it
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Is people just learn, you know, their Stockholm syndrome. They become sympathetic. They're like, these people really care about me and, you know, I'm getting all these tests and they really matter. And, you know, sometimes it it just feels like those things are really necessary. And I I keep saying, like, how fortunate I am for my husband having, you know, been so cool with all this. But I think a big part of that is that he just had no idea what prenatal care was. And, you know, he he didn't know any of these things. He'd never been through it. We'd never had a previous pregnancy where he was like, you know, oh, you're getting your GBS test. Right. Why would he know anything? Yeah. Why would he know anything? He had absolutely no idea. He had nothing to compare it to. So as far as he was concerned, everything that we did was completely normal and which is great. I mean, that's how it should be framed for people is, like, you have all of these options. This is normal too, and, you know, you don't have to do any of those things. Honestly, it was it would have been so much work to get those things because I was on my own, you know?
Speaker 1
Well, and it should be framed exactly. It should be framed as optional no matter what system you're in or if you're doing your own stuff because, ultimately, it is optional, But that's obviously not that's not how it's spoon fed to people. So how was your pregnancy? You ate a lot of ice cream. You did everything on your own. You knew how to use a fetoscope. And did it get at points, like, heady or hard that that you weren't involved in the system? How did your community respond? How forthcoming were you about your plans?
Speaker 2
I was not really forthcoming about my plans with many people, if any. Excuse me. I I really kind of kept to the online groups for support. Not a whole lot of people asked me about it. I think people just kind of assumed, oh, yeah. She's probably doing something weird, and we're not gonna talk to her about it. My mom, she did, you know, press me about the midwife issue, and I basically just kept putting her off saying I just haven't found the right one yet. So I just didn't talk about it too much with especially with people that I I knew weren't going to be responding in in the way that would be helpful or supportive. Sure. I I just didn't wanna deal with it. But I also wasn't really you know, as a newly trained doula, newly practicing, I didn't want to put myself out there too much, especially because I was a first time mom and people do say, you know, well, the first one, you know, you don't know what what to expect. You don't know what your body does. You don't know when you, you know, how long you typically gestate for, you know, all those silly things. So I didn't put myself out there. I I really wasn't too familiar with, all the other birth workers in the area. I was just kind of getting my feet wet in that area and and starting to build relationships. So I didn't want to be too outspoken about it, which is not the case now. I talk about it freely. I have a much more, I'm much more involved in the local birth community, and I'm very much more open lately about my free births, and and I love that. I really feel like people should be able to just be open. For a long time, I lied about it. And, you know, if somebody asked me or a client asked me especially, you know, where did you give birth? And I would say at home, if they said, did you have a midwife? I would just say, yeah, of course. You know?
Speaker 1
Interesting. So when did you start telling the truth?
Speaker 2
In the last year since my second pre birth. Wow. I don't I don't know what switched, but I really just was like, I need to stop lying about this. I I don't feel good about it. I don't know why I'm hiding this. But, you know, I'm just
Speaker 1
calling it because, I mean, we all
Speaker 2
know why anyone would hide this. You don't wanna sound like you're insane. You wanna appear to be a logical, reasonable human being.
Speaker 1
Or just that you don't want to defend your super alternative decisions. That of course makes sense to us and probably all of our listeners. But, yeah, you know, like, I get it. It's not easy to just openly be doing something that is been so successfully, you know, taught to everyone is is, like, incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's not free birth doesn't have a good elevator pitch is basically what it boils down to. It takes a lot of work to get to the point where you're able to overcome all the societal bullshit, and be at a place where you understand that this is normal, this is good, this is a valid choice. And it's not easy to impart that on somebody in five minutes when they ask you about your your own experience. But I've definitely been more willing to just be like, yeah. I had free verse lately. I just I don't wanna lie about it.
Speaker 1
And, actually, I think working on your elevator pitch is a really good idea. I think, you know, and for anyone listening who is resonating with what you're saying, I think that's I think it's actually a really smart thing to do is is work on your elevator pitch. I mean, not necessarily you right now. It sounds like you've already released a lot. But for someone who is, who is struggling with how to authentically kind of come out of the closet, you know, with their decisions, you know, I I really would, like, write down a five minute speech and practice it and come up with a couple of sentences, you know, for how to explain it and how to explain it in a very logical, calm, non defensive way. I think, you know, I had to learn how to do that and it was very productive for sure. So take me to your birth.
Speaker 2
Oh boy.
Speaker 1
At the end of your pregnancy, you know, wherever you want to start telling your birth story.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So during our pregnancy, I We were renovating our house, and totally DIY. And I'm really a hands on kind of person. So I was ripping up floors and, you know, pouring concrete and laying tile and remodeling a whole kitchen. And so I was thirty eight and a half weeks, and we had a little get together planned at our house for Saturday or for Sunday, actually. It was so it was Friday, and we had a a baby shower housewarming kind of thing happening on Sunday. And I was in this mad dash to get the rest of the kitchen to look, like, halfway decent. You know, I have this big list of, I need to get all these things done, then it'll look, you know, semi presentable for somebody else to look at it. So I was on Friday I didn't work on Fridays, and my husband was at work. So I was just at home, and I was cutting my butcher block countertops that morning. And then my rabbit I have a rabbit, and he had chewed a hole in the dryer vent. And I went downstairs to the basement because I was gonna go fix it. And so I pulled out my dryer, and then my water broke.
Speaker 1
And I
Speaker 2
was, you know, as a doula, I know most first time moms go to forty one, forty one and a half weeks. That's totally normal. And the whole pregnancy, I just had forty two weeks in my mind. I didn't tell a single person my due date except for my mom, which I kind of wish I hadn't because she almost spilled it. But I was telling everybody, like, probably late September, even though my due date was early September. So at thirty eight and a half weeks, I was like, no. No. No. No. No. No. You know, I had all this stuff to get done. Mhmm. And I had people coming over in two days and, you know, god knows, you know, you don't know what your birth is going to be like. So when you get that first signal, you're like, shit. You know, or at least I was. I'm sure a lot of people aren't, but I was just not ready for it. I really thought I had literally another month to go.
Speaker 1
And real quick, you said what week you were at?
Speaker 2
I was thirty eight and a half weeks. So thirty eight thirty eight weeks and four days.
Speaker 1
So you had an oh my gosh. You thought you had a whole another month.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I thought I had literally an entire month left and my water broke. And I was it was a slow leak. It wasn't a gush. So my first thoughts were really besides, like, oh, shit. I think my water might have just broken. My first thoughts were, like, oh, this will seal back up. I've read about this. This will be fine. I'm not having a baby. You know? I'll just, like, lay down and and my water will just magically heal itself and you know? And that was definitely not the case. I texted my husband, and I was like, just so you know, I don't think it's anything. You know, I I think it'll it'll be fine. It's gonna, like, seal back up, but my water might have just broken a little bit. Just a little bit. It's so silly to think back now.
Speaker 1
Right. Like, what woman thinks it's gonna just seal back up? I love
Speaker 2
it. I love it. I was totally convinced that it would. And then, like, you know, every time when you have a slow leak like that, every time you walk, just like another squirt comes out. And I was just like, shit, shit, shit, shit. You know? So I told him, like, it's nothing. I'm sure it'll be fine. Finish work. You know, this was probably at around noon. And, contrary to the movies, I did not immediately go into full active labor. And it was just, like, a slow day. I was very emotional. I told him finish work. He worked until six. And I gave him this whole list. I was like, just in case, these are the things that I need you to get. So after work, just go pick up all these things. I needed, like, hoses to fill up the pool and Yeah. Just like had a bunch of stuff that I thought I had another month to get, basically. And the other funny thing that happened that day is I had a couch that was being delivered from IKEA. It was supposed to be coming the next day And, you know, just in time for our get together when people were coming over, I had no furniture or anything for anybody to sit on. So I had a couch being delivered the next day, supposedly. And I got a call from my Kia saying that it was lost in the warehouse. So I spent probably three hours just, like, crying, literally crying on the phone
Speaker 1
Oh.
Speaker 2
At customer service. Like, why is on my couch gonna come? And I was freaking out. If anybody has Comcast or if you've experienced their customer service, I I know that's, like, the TV cable provider for most of the East Coast, I think. If you've dealt with their customer service and you know how crappy it is and how aggravating talking to them on the phone is, IKEA is worse. So much worse.
Speaker 1
Well, what's funny is Yolanda just told me a story of her couch getting lost at IKEA and having to go through the exact same thing and crying. She was not in early labor, but, I guess that's I guess that's the thing that happens.
Speaker 2
I guess so. So I was just crying on them trying to talk to managers, and they were just telling me there's nothing that I can do. You know? I'll give you a gift card or whatever. And I just I, like, cried to this person on the phone. Like, my water broke. I'm gonna have a baby. I have people coming over. You know? I was just a mess. So I'd been on the phone with IKEA for a while. I was maniacally cleaning the house. Basically, everything that I tell people not to do when they're about to have a baby or when they think they're about to have a baby. You know? Rest, drink water, nourish yourself. And, you know, we're all terrible at taking our own advice. And my husband got out of work at nine or got out of work at six, And he went out and he was doing all the errands, and then he got home around nine, nine thirty, and he brought me Panera. I ate a a bacon turkey bravo from Panera.
Speaker 1
Hey. That was my first job when I was sixteen.
Speaker 2
Nice. And I ate. I still I didn't have any contractions, so it had been nine nine plus hours or so since my water had started leaking. And then he got home. Everything felt good. I made the bed sandwich. I got the vinyl sheet on and the extra sheets. And then we went downstairs and filled up or started setting up a pool. I was like, I think we should probably just start doing this just in case. And as my husband was blowing up the pool, I started having contractions. It was at like, nine forty five, nine fifty five, something like that, almost ten o'clock. And it was just a comedy of errors filling up the stamp. It was so I got the wrong connector piece for the hose. So we had to run this hose down to my laundry in the basement with, like, five different hoses connected to each other. And the water, when we started it, it came out brown. So we had to dump this pool off the back deck and start over, and it was just awful. And we did that literally, like, three times, and I was just like, I can't do this anymore. The contractions were picking up, and I was like, you you just deal with this. I can't handle this. So So I went upstairs, and I took a shower, and I got the most intense contraction. And I was like, what is this? And I called him up. We actually had hired a doula, and I but she was she lived two hours away. So at that first contraction, it was so intense. I never felt anything like that. I told him while I was having the contraction, call her, call her, call her. And he was on the phone. And then when it ended, I was like, okay. Just kidding. I think I'm fine. It's fine. And then it started again really quickly, and I was like, nope. Just kidding. Get her here. And then, basically, from that point on, I had a a single contraction for I'm so foggy on the timeline of things, but it had to have been at least an hour, maybe an hour and a half. And then my husband, he was just downstairs trying to fill up this pool for me. God bless him. And then he would, you know, run up the stairs and check on me every every ten minutes or so and ask me stupid questions that I didn't wanna answer and, you know, the things that people do when you're in labor. And at one point I just felt a baby's head coming out and I yelled down to him and I said, the baby's coming. And that was it. He ran upstairs. I said, grab the video camera, and he's, like, freaking out. Oh my god. I have a video camera, and then I had a baby. And that was really it.
Speaker 1
So from when to when, how long was that?
Speaker 2
My entire labor from first contraction until he was born was four and a half hours. He was born at two Damn. Yeah. I know. Which is so
Speaker 1
Three of those hours, you're crying to IKEA customer
Speaker 2
Well, you know, so that was earlier in the day before I had contractions.
Speaker 1
Oh, gotcha. Gotcha.
Speaker 2
So that happened until like ten pm.
Speaker 1
So your water's opened, nothing really happened for like the day. And then it kicked
Speaker 2
in. Yeah. And then I had a contraction right right around ten pm. And it was just, you know, the early crampy menstrual cramp type stuff for, you know, a little while. And then once I started having seroce contractions, it was just like, bam, you're going to have a baby in, like, an hour.
Speaker 1
And did you feel were you and your husband, like, chaotic energy that it was going so fast, or were you pretty, like, with it?
Speaker 2
So I think because it was so intense, I had no idea what was going on. I was, like, pacing back and forth from the toilet to my bedroom, just walking back and forth in the hall. And then at a certain point, I just climbed into the bathtub, and it was empty. I just climbed into my dirty bathtub. You know, I wasn't expecting to have a baby in this tub. So
Speaker 1
Oh, you're a little cat. I love it. You just, like, gotta go hide somewhere.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I climbed into the bathtub. I'm all by myself. I basically labored alone the entire time. So my husband's just trying to fill up this pool downstairs and occasionally checking on me. He has absolutely no idea that it is, you know, this intense for me. Not a clue. And maybe I think because it was just so intense, I was just in it. There was no there was literally no break in a contraction. It didn't come and go. It was just there. And I remember at a certain point, I was banging my head, maybe not banging, but at least pressing it very firmly against the side of my tub, thinking if I was at the hospital, this is when I would get the epidural. Totally. You know, I just had that thought process. And then, like, fifteen minutes later, I had a baby.
Speaker 1
Nice. Right on cue. That's awesome.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was great. It was very easy. I just, you know, I was on hands and knees for most of the time, and then as I felt them coming out, I just Captain Morgan ed it, caught him, turned around, and laid in the tub, and that was
Speaker 1
it. I love it. And how did the placenta emerge?
Speaker 2
That took a long time, actually. I wasn't even thinking about it. My doula, since she lived so far away, she was still an hour away when he was born. And I was just kind of chilling. I moved over to the bed. The placenta hadn't even crossed my mind. I really wasn't thinking about it at all. And I was just hanging out. And then once she got there, she was like, is your placenta? And I was like, oh, no. No. No. So I actually got up and went to the toilet and, like, made a conscious effort to get it out. I think I took some Angelica or Shepherd first, whichever the one is for before the placenta comes. And I just went and put some effort into it, and my placenta came out. And that was it. Nice. I think it was about two and a half hours after he was born. So it was a significant amount of time. But there was nobody to freak out, and so nobody freaked out.
Speaker 1
That needs to be just in my opening right there. There was no one to freak out, and so no one freaked out.
Speaker 2
That's really what it is. Like So good. I think some people I find the conversations in some of the free birth groups to be so interesting because there's there's a lot of people who think and who justify free birth on the fact that people are so informed. People who do it are so knowledgeable, and, you know, they do a lot of work to inform themselves about birth and and all this stuff. But I think lately, and I really think that you've influenced this a lot, you and Yolanda, there's definitely been a shift in the conversation where it's okay if you're not that person. And if you don't want to be fully informed, you don't have to spend all this time because birth just happens. It's natural. And if you don't, you know, find out about all these things that could freak you out, then you don't freak out because you don't know about them. I really think that that that totally is a valid thing. It certainly was the case for my husband. He had no idea what to expect, so he didn't freak out. You know, it really is that simple.
Speaker 1
Yes, totally. Right? And and, you know, this is kind of maybe a dark thing to bring up, but, like, teenagers give birth, like in the toilet without knowing they're pregnant. Like, you know, women can birth in a coma. Like there, there is something there that I think we, we should not forget about, you know, that, like you're pointing to that birth is physiological birth happens. And actually the biggest hindrance to birth is our heads and our environment. And so when we, when we change those, yeah, it really does get to be this, you know, physiological experience that does become actually quite simple.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And there's something to be said for the partner not knowing that much. I completely agree with you.
Speaker 2
Oh, god. I think every partner should be completely ignorant.
Speaker 1
Right? I mean, really. And it actually is a red flag for me when I work with couples where the partner, typically male, wants to read everything, know everything, be involved in every decision, you know, wants to practice all of the emergency complication responses. Well, and what that says to me is, oh, cool. So you wanna replace the doctor and the midwife with you? Yay. And, actually, I would say that that's more dangerous perhaps than a doctor or a midwife because a doctor or a midwife at least have some training. You know? Yeah. They actually know. Yeah. I mean, they're gonna fucking sabotage it in a different way, but at least they know how to interpret heart tones, let's say, or they know how to feel in a vaginal exam if the if it's breach or not. You know? I mean, there's there's there's real things to a training that we cannot deny that having just a replacement husband for that is is not, is not ideal. It really,
Speaker 2
it really is. It is so silly to think that they can just overcome that kind of learning curve over the course of our pregnancy. That's just absurd.
Speaker 1
It will. And that, and that I think we need to really, like, we need to really pause and look at, you know, and if someone is listening to this and this is your partner, that to me, and maybe I'm being too bold here and maybe this isn't fair or accurate, but to me, it it starts to bring up flags of, this isn't really a free birth. This is someone else managing you. And is that what you want? Is that in keeping with your relationship? Okay. Great. Like, none of my business. But if you want a free birth as a pregnant woman, you are the one in charge. You are the one at the top of the, let's say, power pyramid. And so why does your husband need to know how to deal with a hemorrhage? I mean, I cannot tell you, Kate, how many women email me and message me and say, you know, I'm just being rational here. My husband's terrified because what if I bleed out? And he's gonna have to know what to do because I won't need I won't know what to do. And He calls nine one one. Well, obviously. And I would say, you know, fifteen steps before that happens, as the woman having the free birth, how do you feel? You know, do you feel faint? Do you you know, she's not
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 1
Women aren't just idiots right after they've had babies. Like, they you know, it actually we are in our most primal, intuitive, instinctual mind. And, I mean, I have birthed with a lot of women, and I've never ever attended a woman, or witnessed a woman who didn't know what she needed and how to and what her baby needed. I've I've never not saying that can't happen, but I have never attended a woman or been with a woman who didn't know what to do, how to help her baby if the baby needed a little help, and how to help herself. And that's the part that, you know, that's the part that's broken in our womanhood, in this patriarchy, is that I can't just tell another woman you're gonna know. That that's not enough for a lot of women. For some women, it is, and that's freaking awesome that that's enough because it's true. But for other women, you know, we've actually seen this in our group. People get pissed when we're like, you're gonna know. You can trust yourself. You know, trust your intuition. People are like, but that's not enough. I need to know every medical, you know, preparation method. It's like, okay. Well, then you probably shouldn't free birth. I don't know. That's that's a whole different, it just sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Anyway No. I totally
Speaker 2
I agree. I don't think that's too bold at all.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Okay. So, take me to your next pregnancy and then move into your next birth.
Speaker 2
So my next pregnancy, I actually got pregnant on my second cycle. Well, not really my second cycle, but it was like my the ovulation after my first period after I had my first son, which was, like, fifteen at fourteen or fifteen months old with him. And so my kids are two days shy of two years apart. And when I got pregnant with him, it was just obviously meant to be because it just happened with one effort, with one one attempt. And, this just miracle baby came along. He clearly wanted to be with us. And I think with that pregnancy, I was a lot sicker. And so it was a little bit more difficult in that aspect. But I was still just as lazy as I had been with the first where, you know, I wasn't really regularly doing anything. I occasionally tested my blood blood sugar not my blood sugar, my blood pressure if I was starting to feel kind of weird. And, you know, I just took my blood pressure and would be like, oh, yeah, it's fine. That's cool.
Speaker 1
And there was there was no question for you that, like, you would have a autonomous pregnancy and birth again?
Speaker 2
Yeah. None. Absolutely none. I mean, yeah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.
Speaker 1
And so did you hire a doula again? What was your team? How did it how did it how did you set it up different? Like, did you come into this one knowing that there were things you wanted to do differently, that you could control?
Speaker 2
So well, I did immediately after. I don't know why. I guess I was so concerned that the second time around that things would be so much different, that I would have, like, some crazy long labor, and my husband hadn't ever really been with me during labor. So how would he know how to, you know it was just kind of unfounded fears in that aspect. I I just started thinking, like, what if? So I was like, I'm gonna get a doula. And I hired or I started talking to her very early. It was actually a different person who was much closer by. And I started talking to her very early in my pregnancy. And then some life changes happened. My husband, his job situation changed. And so financially, we were just in a different place. And I was like, I I don't think it makes sense to to pay this doula anymore. I don't think we can really, you know, I don't think we can really do that. And I talked to my husband about it. And when I asked him what he thought about that, he said, who's going to clean up? And I was like That's a great
Speaker 1
valid question, I guess.
Speaker 2
But it's just so funny that, you know, first of all, like, is that what you think I do at every birth that I go to? I'm not just a cleaning lady, although I am in part.
Speaker 1
Sometimes those are the best births though when all you do is clean.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Totally. Absolutely. It just I thought it was so funny that that was his response.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
And But it's also kind
Speaker 1
of beautiful because it speaks to his confidence in you. You know, he wasn't like, who's gonna, like, help me, stay calm and who's gonna help you through labor? It was just like, who's gonna do this shit I don't wanna do? It's just kinda nice.
Speaker 2
Perfect. Exactly. Even though I mean, last time, the mess was really the doula, she, she, like, disassembled the pool. I actually never saw the pool set up. He had it mostly filled by the time I gave birth, but I never went back downstairs. Apparently, I had a bunch of birth affirmations printed out and, like, lights and those kinds of things, and he had actually set up the space, kind of. And so I never saw it. She she broke all that down for us Nice. Before I ever went back downstairs, and she cleaned up the tub and the toilet. And, you know, it was a little bit messier, I think, just because my water had broken prior to really going into labor, essentially. And I guess it's just so funny to me that that's what he thought about. Yeah. And so I was like, well, if that's all you think that she's going to do, then we don't need to spend this money to bring her here. My concern really was my older son and,
Speaker 1
you
Speaker 2
know, whether he would be able to, you know, be cared for the way that
Speaker 1
because he was two. Right.
Speaker 2
Well, he was going to be two when we gave birth. So that was I definitely wanted him around. And, you know, I I had no concerns about him seeing me in labor. It was more just like if the timing's right and he's really tired and needs to go to bed, am I gonna be alone again? And what if this is long and and that kind of thing? But it wasn't. We had another very silly circumstance, I guess. It was completely different labor. My water didn't break first. My husband was actually at at a fantasy football draft. And I was out in the backyard with my son, and he was just jumping on me. And I was having contractions. I didn't really realize it at the time. But I was having, like, the contractions that most people have when they go into labor before their water breaks, I guess. Mhmm. So it was very different. I it just didn't compute with me, and I actually had a doula interview, scheduled for that that evening. For her to I was thirty nine weeks that day.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. K.
Speaker 2
So I was pushing it. I had told her, like, you know, I'll be there if I'm not in labor, basically. But I had actually rescheduled with her. She she scheduled an appointment with me on my website, and it just happened to be during my husband's fantasy draft. And I was like, crap. I have to reschedule it with you. Can we just push it a few hours later? So I felt bad that I had already rescheduled with this person once. And so while my husband's at this draft, I'm I'm texting him, and I'm like, you know, I'm I'm having some contractions, and I think I'm gonna need you to drive me to this interview. And what a stupid, stupid idea. I just felt so terrible. Like, I couldn't reschedule with her. I don't know why I felt like I needed to keep this commitment. But I did. And once my husband got home, I was definitely in active labor. And so I just basically pulled it together. I put some towels in the car. I put the camcorder in the car, and I was like, let's just go and get this over with. So he drives me to this appointment, and I sit down with them. Him. And I'm like, you know, just, you know, I'm I'm in I totally lied. I said I was in early labor, but I was I was totally in active labor, which was very apparent on the car ride. And, fortunately, my water hadn't broken because that would have been just super weird. And this was one of those people who comes in with a list, like a notebook written with a list of questions for you. And so it was difficult to get through this interview, but I sat there and I answered all these questions. And then an hour later, I got up. And as soon as I got out the door, it just, like, came over me. I think during this interview you know, I talk a lot about, you know, mammals, how if they're feeling afraid, things will kind of just stop. And it definitely didn't stop. I was feeling extremely uncomfortable throughout this whole thing, and I did have a couple of, like, real strong waves come. But for the most part, it really did just, like, kind of pause the whole process. And then as soon as I walked outside what's so funny is I was at Panera meeting these people. So I it was just pointed out to me by a friend that Panera is now part of both of my birth stories. So this is As soon as I walked out the door, it just came over me. And I was like, holy crap. This is like we're going somewhere here right now. So I hopped in the car. My husband pulled around. I hopped in the car. We turned on the video camera just to get the whole, you know, interaction. Because this I was I was so confused about the timeline of things because it happened so fast with my first birth that the second one, I was really adamant that what I wanted was the whole thing to be filmed so I could go back and watch the whole thing to see how it unfolded. So we turn on the camera. There's a lot of hilarious things that I've already watched it a few times, and a lot of funny things are said. And there was traffic, and it really sucked. And then we got home. My husband put my son to bed, and he came back out, and I was just in the tub, basically, my crappy tub. We didn't even bother with this pool because obviously that was just a nightmare last time. And I just kind of hung out in the tub and he watched me. He sat on the toilet and watched me, and then I had a baby. You know, I don't know how else I I love
Speaker 1
it. It
Speaker 2
was two and a half hours, almost exactly two and a half hours after I left this interview. And and then I yeah. I just had a baby. They came out and that was it.
Speaker 1
Could could it really be more simple,
Speaker 2
It really can't. I, you know, I don't know what else to say about these things. I could tell you all the funny things that happened, like, in the car ride, my husband asked. You know? He always asked me how long I'm gonna be at birth, and I'm like, what? Why would you even ask me?
Speaker 1
Oh my god. I know.
Speaker 2
And in the car, he asked me, if I thought we were having the baby tonight. And I was like, yes. Tonight. And he was like, no. But, like, tonight tonight? Meaning, like, before midnight or after? I was like, yes, tonight. So that was one funny thing that happened. And then I had no idea that this happened until I looked back at this video too, but my I, you know, had, the toilet open. Normally, we have them closed because we have cats, and they drink out of the toilet. And I have left it open, and I had peed and not flushed, and my cat came in and started drinking out of the toilet. So, like, I'm in the tub looking over at my cat, like, so sad. And so that's another funny thing that happened.
Speaker 1
And what about your placenta with the second one?
Speaker 2
It just fell right out. Yeah. I stood up and then plop. There it was. It was so it could not have been more different. I said, oh, the glozard is coming out. Run and get the bowl. He ran in the room, grabbed the bowl, brought it back, and I just was like, well, there it is. I love it.
Speaker 1
So how I'm just I'm thinking I'm going back to what you said earlier about how you haven't really shared this with with your community in an open way. So aft like, did your family know?
Speaker 2
So we basically told my family afterward that the midwife just didn't make it in time, which I guess is true. So the thing about my first, the person that I hired as a doula the first time, she actually was a midwife. And I I now look back and think, like, how silly of me to think that I could hire somebody who was a midwife as a doula. Like, I know that now. Right. And I'm really I'm really glad that she didn't make it. Not that she's a terrible person. I like her. But now I realize how much that would have changed the dynamic, and I I'm really thankful that she did not make it even though she knew, you know, she was just acting as the doula and there was no you know, I had no prenatal care with her or anything like that. There was no examination. She didn't check me over after or anything like that. But, yeah, now I I realize how silly that is to expect that somebody who's trained in that manner could just shut that part of their brain off and
Speaker 1
Even if they think they can.
Speaker 2
Even if they think they can, it's just not possible.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Which Or or maybe it's possible, but it's certainly playing with fire. I'm not gonna say there isn't anyone out there who's capable of that, I guess, but, but definitely opening a door that that could have dire consequences. I mean, I I have debriefed with so many women who wanted free birth and invited their midwife friend as a friend and then bam, sabotaged.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I really the person that I want to be with me, I thinking about it now, I really just want somebody who and this goes back to our whole conversation, basically, is I want somebody who's ignorant to birth but trusts me and is just here to do whatever I tell them to. Totally. You know? I honestly, I I don't even care to have a trained doula. I mean, obviously, I didn't hire one last time anyway, but the person that would would be good moving forward for me would be just, like, a family person, and it really sucks that I don't really have that. Yeah. I don't have that person to call on. And I I think
Speaker 1
that's kind of where
Speaker 2
doulas come in in our society, is that a lot of people feel like they don't have that, and they they need to hire these people.
Speaker 1
Well, and I think that I think that's where doulas should come in. Unfortunately, where I think doulas more so come in is this authority figure, you know, over birth or over over the hospital or over whatever it is. But I think, actually, the gap that really it needs to get filled is, when people are lacking, the, you know, the right sister to to just be kind of ignorantly, lovingly there at birth. I think that's, just a beautiful role. And, you know, Yolanda and myself both very intentionally only invited women to our birth who had, no knowledge, no real knowledge of birth. They weren't doulas or midwives or, you know, anything. They just were women that loved me and trusted me. And, and same with Yolanda when she's had different friends at at her different births. It's I think it's a very it's a very smart, protective way to go for sure.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Yeah. The authority thing really is is huge. As soon as somebody with any knowledge is there, you almost automatically look to them even as the birthing person for reassurance. Exactly. I think a lot of people
Speaker 1
Well, Anne and then with the reassurance, that's not inherently a bad thing if and this is where it gets really hard. If the ego of the birth attendant is kept in check and if the position of the birth attendant, you know and I've been all over the map with this because I've been attending births for so long. It's been a huge journey of my own ego. You know, it used to feel so good to have somebody look to me as an authority. And I didn't have the skills yet and the just the comprehensive understanding of of physiological birth and how how much I participated in disempowering people. I didn't realize it for a very, very long time. Whereas now, I am I know how to reflect and turn it back, you know, and not take authority and how, you know, I know how to be an authority in birth and not an authority over someone else. And not an authority in this birth. You know, there's there's right? Like, you can't you can't be. But, sure, like, people certainly hire me and want me at their birth because I have a ton of experience. Yes. But, that line, right, like, duals and midwives are trained to be whether they admit it or not. And I was one of them. I am I did not escape this by any means to be an authority at the birth. And that is just so, it's just so contrary to what we know to be the safest, and most protective and most biological, you know, unfolding of the hormonal matrix, you know, is is is if someone looks up for reassurance, that's perfectly understandable. But don't take the power. Just, you know, just say, well, how do you feel? What is it? You know, you you know best. Like, what a Yep. What a magnificent thing, you know, to say, close your eyes, you know, and and you know best or find your answer, whatever. I believe in you. You know, whatever thing versus versus, like, the egotistical giddy dance of, oh, now I get to play hero, and I get to save, and I get to come up with the suggestions. And, man, it's such a slippery slope.
Speaker 2
Let's do some belly sifting or, you know, whatever thing you can come up with. Totally. No. I totally totally totally totally. Totally. One hundred percent. I'm on that train with you.
Speaker 1
Because it feels so good as a doula to be like, let's try Rebozo. Let's try this. Let me do acupressure points, like, all of this stuff. And I remember when I was younger being like, if I wasn't doing anything at a birth, which obviously now I've learned is better, but, you know, obviously with a watchful eye and, and all of these other things, but, but in terms of inserting myself, I remember earlier, you know, many years ago being like, if I'm not inserting myself, like, what do they pay me for? Like, I feel bad that I'm not doing all this stuff to earn my money kind of thing. And what a fuck dynamic that is. Oh my god.
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's so many different things about that whole, I don't know, just about dueling in general. And I know there's so many tangents you can go off on on that.
Speaker 1
Such an unlearning. I mean, when when we are specifically talking about supporting women who want autonomous, you know, self authoritative, free birth, it's not every woman I've walked with by any means wants that. I've walked with tons of women who very much want and prefer and are most comfortable with having a ton of authorities and not making their own decisions. And, you know, there's a place for that for the right doula, you know, and that that's what I think most doulas are, and that's kind of what the training is. But this shift, you know, into shifting into women who really are very interested in taking responsibility for themselves. And and the most delicate are the women who are interested in learning how but haven't totally clicked it in yet. And, you know, those are the women I think we have to be the most careful with because, they're on their way, you know, and we can really facilitate that, and support and nurture that, or we can just be like everybody else, you know, trying to just ruin it. Yeah. It's heady.
Speaker 2
Very, very heady. A lot of nuance in all of this and a lot of deep thought.
Speaker 1
And just so much ego. Right? Like, it's so much self work and Self
Speaker 2
and ego.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's definitely Well,
Speaker 2
it's at every level. You know, we we all talk about, you know, the ego of the OBs, you know, who think they know everything and whatever. And but that trickles down to the midwives, that trickles down to doulas, that's all down to everybody. Yeah. We're all getting paid. Everybody has it, and everybody needs to actively be working on keeping their ego in check.
Speaker 1
And it's this huge, shift of, having something to prove. And then not, you know, like when, when you don't have something to prove anymore, things feel really different in your auric field. You know, when you've like fully embodied your work and what you have to offer and who you are in the world and, you know, the confidence and self love, that comes with that when you've really embodied that you don't have anything to prove people take you or leave you. And I mean, it's been a huge lesson for me of, you know, creating this platform and having just, you know, so many people hate me that have never even met me, you know, but just from whatever my podcast or Facebook or whatever, just so much, you know, bad reviews and trolling and whatever, just just nasty shit. So it's really, like, pushing me to a new level of, like, am I what it am I strong? You know? Is my org field strong? Do I believe in what I'm doing? Is what I'm putting out authentically, true and pure and good, you know, to the world as best as I can? And, or am I just trying to prove something and I'm really not, you know? And so it feels so easy to let it roll off my back. Anyway, anything else you want to share or close on about, about your beautiful free births?
Speaker 2
They were cool. I will do it again.
Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, I love the simplicity of it. I love just how clear and strong you were from the beginning. That's, you know, we need more of that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel like what you were saying earlier about how we can get to people before they experience the trauma, that's just so important. And I think so many people think you were saying about how people look at home birth as the alternative, but it really is in the medical model. And getting people to understand that just because you have a home birth midwife doesn't mean that they are going to practice in a way that you feel comfortable with. So even if you feel like you need to hire a midwife, which is, you know, obviously a valid choice for whoever wants to do that, people still have shitty experiences with home birth midwives. They still practice in ways that are uncomfortable for birthing women, and I think that's such a difficult thing to
Speaker 1
It's so hard.
Speaker 2
Relay.
Speaker 1
Yeah. The whole thing is so hard. Alrighty. Well, thank you. I love your stories, and I hope that they inspire anyone on the verge of taking that leap and knowing that it can just be simple and funny and unexpected and powerful and intimate and and just everything that your stories were.
Speaker 2
Thank you.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
