Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child Saldea.
Speaker 1
Saldea.
Speaker 2
I have a very exciting announcement to make. The official free birth society membership network is now live. We have abandoned mainstream social media and created our own private network, a truly safe space where women can be free to talk about pregnancy, birth, holistic mothering, and, of course, radical birth work. And you don't have to be a hardcore free birther to join. This is for any woman who is curious about natural birth and natural mothering and who wants to explore any of the
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ideas that we touch on
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in this podcast in more depth. It's also a great resource for women who are planning a free birth, a place to share stories, ideas, information, and most importantly, community and support. Head to our website at free birth society dot com to apply. We are so proud of this new space, and we can't wait to welcome you. Come join us in the fun.
Speaker 3
This week, we have Debbie from Utah, sharing the story of her first two births in captivity and then the free birth of her third. After a mixed bag of experiences in the hospital with her first two, she realized early in her third pregnancy that she wanted to have an unassisted childbirth. Using the tools of hypnobirthing and by way of lots of research, Debbie got ready for her ecstatic birth. Debbie birthed just as she had envisioned. And lastly, she shares why she chose to go to the hospital after her birth and thankfully had a positive experience.
Speaker 1
I would say my birth story starts when I first got pregnant with my first son, Oliver. So, I am the youngest of nine children, and my family is very split in half. So, half of them are very medical, doctor's epidural, take away any pain. The other half are very natural, home birth, water birth, you know, those types of things, and no intervention. And so I had grown up not really hearing birth stories that often. And my, sister, she would talk about her birth, her home birth, and I remember thinking, like, Oh, I can't I can't believe you would do that, or You know, I just had a very medical background, because my brother's an anesthesiologist, and I was really close to him, and he would talk often about anesthesia. So, so when I got pregnant with my first child, though, I remember thinking like, I think I wanna try to go natural. And so I had an OB. I didn't know I We were a very healthy family growing up. We rarely went to the doctor. So I really didn't know how to interact with doctors that much. And so I found an OB, and I went to her, and I was always so, like, frustrated. Every appointment, I'd be there for an hour and a half, and I'd see the doctor for maybe five minutes. -Yeah. -And she never remembered me. -Mm. -And it was so frustrating. And so then I would be like, okay. I'm gonna make this birth plan. And I would tell her my ideas, and she'd say, okay. Well but you're probably gonna want an epidural, so let's just plan on that. And Yeah. And I and I was so frustrated. And so then finally the day came. I I took a class. I didn't okay. So growing up, I had a really high pain tolerance. And I think a lot of women make this mistake that they think, Oh, I don't really need to do too much research. I have such a high pain tolerance. I doubt the pains of birth are gonna be what everyone says they are, you know? So I'd taken a class, and, you know, the class had taught me some things. I really don't remember what was in the class, but eventually, the day came that I started having contractions, and I went to the doc I had a doctor's appointment that morning, and I went in, and she goes, Oh, just so you know, you better have the baby today because I'm going on vacation. And I was like
Speaker 2
Classic.
Speaker 1
Okay. So, so I labored all day, and my biggest fear was going to the hospital too early. And so then, around seven at night, I was like, I think we need to go to the hospital. I went to the hospital, and I was only a three, and they said, well, maybe we'll keep you. And so they kept me around for a little bit, and I progressed a little bit to a four until they let me stay. So then my doctor had gone on vacation, so it was just, whoever was on call. And he comes in and says, You're going too slowly. We need to give you Pitocin.
Speaker 2
And I
Speaker 1
was like, I don't want Pitocin. They're like, you really need it. And so then I got Pitocin, and nothing happened. And then, you know, an hour later, he said, we need to break your water. And I said, I don't want to break my water. And they were like, You really need to because it's going too slow. So then, I had my water broken. And then, it was still painful. Nothing was happening. And, finally, they're, like my husband, he didn't know what to do. He he hadn't really prepared for this. And so he didn't know how to help me. And he's he's like, maybe you should just get an epidural. And I didn't want one, but they kept saying, like, if you get an epidural, you can sleep. So I got an epidural, and we slept. And it was good to sleep. It was nice. Mhmm. But then, around, I think it was eight o'clock the next morning, they're like, oh, you're at ten. You can start pushing. And so I push for forty five minutes. The doctor came in. The baby wasn't coming out. He stuck his hand in me and pulled out the baby. So I ripped. I had a third degree tear.
Speaker 2
Oh. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1
And, and, you know, baby was healthy. Everything was fine. But I hadn't researched and, you know, you get everybody saying, oh, well, as long as the baby's fine. As long as the baby's fine. And but, you know, I that was my traumatic experience.
Speaker 2
Well, Anne Anne, let's
Speaker 1
just things that happened.
Speaker 2
Yes. And and I just wanna say, you do not you should not have to be well researched to avoid being abused. That is not, you know
Speaker 1
You shouldn't.
Speaker 2
No. You shouldn't.
Speaker 1
It is not happening.
Speaker 2
But that is that is the hospital. And even the most researched, even the most, educated on the deal honestly, if you're that educated, you're probably not birthing at the hospital because you know what you're gonna get. But but even the people who think that they're super educated on on how to work the system are still abused. So I am so, so sorry that happened to you. That was so completely unnecessary.
Speaker 1
It was a good learning experience because after our words, I looked at it. Okay. Well, so jump on to my second second baby. I got pregnant. I was living in Florida at this time. So, Utah for the first one, Florida for the second one. And I go to the first OB appointment and she says she gives me the exam and she says, oh, did you have just a regular vaginal birth? And I'm like, yeah. And she's like, well, your cervix is super scarred. I totally would have given you a c section. And I was like, what? Who is this lady? And so I knew right then I did not wanna have my baby with her. So, throughout that pregnancy, I started reading books. And, the main book that I loved most was the Ina May Gaskins' Natural Childbirth. And that's when I started reading about, you know, what to do. I would take notes on how to have a baby without an epidural, so naturally, and just what to do in general. -Mm -Well, at thirty weeks, we moved back to Utah. And so I had to find a new medical provider. So I went to a midwife. I was like, I'm gonna get a midwife.
Speaker 2
Home birth midwife or a hospital midwife?
Speaker 1
So my insurance only covered hospital. Okay.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 1
And, backstory. So my husband, his mom, she had nine children, and he is the fifth child. And she love she's one of those people who loves to say, I'm so glad I was in the hospital because this would have happened if I hadn't been at the hospital. And her when she had him, that was her traumatic birth. And so anytime you bring up childbirth, she brings up this story every single time. And Iona say, stop telling me this. I just kind of change the subject but it's to the point where I'm like stop telling me this story. Stop telling everybody this story because it's not doing anyone any good. So we planned on a hospital birth. I was fine with that. And, yeah, so one of the reasons we moved to Utah was for a job. But while we were in Florida, I had started researching midwives. And but the closest one wasn't for like an hour away. And so part of moving to Utah was everything would be more localized. So we got here, and I had, I think, one appointment with my midwife before I had the baby. And she was really nice, and I liked her. Okay, so, my water broke at one, and I told my husband and I told him to go back to sleep because I knew that this time I was gonna be a little bit more hands off. I had decided to get a doula because my husband didn't know what to do the previous time, and I wanted somebody there advocating for me, saying she doesn't want an epidural. Don't bug her with that. So, my water broke, and an hour and a half later, I started having contractions. I had contractions for about an hour before I said, We need to go to the hospital. Went to the hospital. The doula met me there, and within an hour, I had had the baby. So it was really fast. The first one was twenty four hours, but I looking back, I know that it was so long because of all the interventions. The second one was only three and a half hours. So then, everything was great. I really liked that birth, and I was so happy with it. It was everything that the previous one wasn't. So then, when I got pregnant this time, I had decided, you know, there's probably more natural things that I'm missing out on that Yeah. I would like to incorporate into my my birth. So I first joined, the Facebook group, natural birth support group. And I would read the comments. You know, that that group has a ton of people in it. So it would be, like, popping up on my news feed. The entire news feed was that group. -Mm Totally. -So -I'd read all of them, and I'd randomly hear about these people having unassisted birth. And I was like, What are they talking about? Like, I'd never heard of it. And so finally I asked, like, What do people mean when they say unassisted birth? And they're like, That's just unassisted. Like, nobody is there that's medical personnel. And so some of them are saying, You know, it's just an accident. I accidentally had my baby unassisted. And then I called the ambulance, and I you know, it was kind of traumatic. And others were saying, I planned it. I didn't Mhmm. Plan on going to the hospital ever. Yeah. And, so I I thought, that is so crazy. I cannot believe people would do that. And then, I was, like, really intrigued with it. And I so I started, like, searching for other groups. And I heard about the home birth assisted and unassisted uncensored Facebook group, which led to the, unassisted pregnancy and childbirth no assistance talk.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. The big one.
Speaker 1
To the fake the free birth to say.
Speaker 2
Woo hoo.
Speaker 1
So, eventually, I'll add to this group.
Speaker 2
Uh-huh.
Speaker 1
And, and so I'd read the different things and, so so that's where my mind was thinking, like, this is crazy, but I really like the idea of this. And so I have a sister, my oldest sister. On her third child, she had a twenty minute labor. So she had, her water broke, and then she was going to the hospital, and twenty minutes later, she had the baby in the car. And I thought, maybe my birth, it's the third one. She's my sister. Maybe I'm gonna have a really fast birth. And at eleven weeks, I think it was around eleven weeks, whenever I think about my birth and how I wanted it to be, this was even before I found out about the groups, I imagined my birth that I was in my bathroom and I'd squat down and have the baby. That's like what I always imagined.
Speaker 2
Cool.
Speaker 1
And so then after hearing about these groups and people who who didn't go to the hospital on purpose, I was like, I think that's what I want. And so then I, you know, I kept it all to myself. I didn't tell people because in the the area that I live, everybody goes and gets the epidural. That's what everybody does.
Speaker 2
Did you tell your husband?
Speaker 1
At this point, I did not tell my husband.
Speaker 2
You're just kinda ruminating on it.
Speaker 1
Yes. I was just thinking about it, and I started to kinda plan. And but then, but at the same time, I wasn't I wasn't positive that I was gonna do that. So, I made this this cute birth plan. It was really cute. It's still sitting on my printer. I never took it off my printer. That's cute. But, so my sister, another sister, because I have seven sisters, I have a sister who's not married, and she lives in Australia. And she had decided that she was coming to America for a year and she was gonna live with me and two of my other sisters for four months at a time. And so she planned to come to me first because I was gonna have a baby and she wanted to come help out. So when she got here, I said, okay, Kim. This is what I'm thinking. I wanna have the baby at home, and I want you to be my doula, basically. And she was like, let's do it. So Nice. I started telling her how birth was here in general and she was, like, really appalled. I guess in Australia, almost everyone that she knew of has home births and very hands off. So, she lived in a a city called Wagga Wagga. And, she doesn't have any kids, but she would be at work and she said all we ever talked about was childbirth. That's all we ever talked about. And all about their home births and how they went. And no one ever mentioned how they really wanted an epidural or anything. They just were happy with how birth was. And and so she was so on the same page with me from day one. And that made me so happy because I didn't wanna be fighting anyone. And, so then, by this point, my sister's here at I think she got here when I was thirty, thirty five ish weeks. So
Speaker 2
And she doesn't yet know your intentions, the sister.
Speaker 1
No. So I have Well, once she got here at thirty five weeks, I told her, like, the second day she was here, I was like, I wanna have the baby at home. So then, you know, we start planning and we start imagining what it's gonna be like. And I tell her all the books I've read, and I tell Every time I come upon something new, I tell her about it, and I give her books to read herself. And I tell her I've researched, you know, what to do in certain situations. And at some point, she says, have you told Eric? And I'm like, well, sort of. And so, so sometimes I'd bring it up to Eric and I'd say, Eric, I think I'm so I started out, like, I think I'm gonna have the baby at home. And he'd be like, but we'll go to the hospital. And so then, like, a couple days later, I'd be like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have the baby at home. And he'd be like, but we'll go to the hospital. You know, when it was getting closer, I'm like, Eric, I'm not making it to the hospital. That's what it had turned into. And he's like, Yeah, you are. And I'm like, No, I'm not. I'm not making it to the hospital.
Speaker 2
And kick off
Speaker 1
the wheel. So that that was the communication that I had with my husband just because I I didn't know what his reaction was. And my husband is really relaxed, and he's great, and he totally supports me in what I decisions I make. But I knew well, I hoped that I would have the baby during the night. I've had both my babies during the night, and so I just hoped that would happen again, because I wanted him to be able to sleep and not stress because with the previous birth, he would get pretty stressed because he just didn't know how to help me. And I knew that I wanted to do it on my own this time. And so, I'll get back to him in a little bit after I have the baby. So, so, finally, I'm getting close to having my baby. And there were several things I had hoped for in this birth, and one of them was I wanted to go overdue, because it's like everybody always complains so much about going overdue. And I was like, it can't be that bad. I wanted to know because I had had my other two early. And so Forty weeks.
Speaker 2
Quick question too. So now you're forty weeks. You're, like, in your mind, you know that you're gonna stay home and birth with just your sister and and, you know, whoever else in your family. Are you just feeling, like, totally fearless and confident? Or or, like, what how did you reconcile with the, you know, the the fear side of it, of of doing this for the first time at home?
Speaker 1
That's a great question, and I did forget to mention that. So, I had decided to try hypnobrahing this time. I had heard all these people say they had painless births and and fearless births, and and I said, oh, I wanna try that. So I read the book Hypnobirthing, the Mongan Method, and there's a story in that book that really hit me. It was, I don't know if you've read it, but, basically, her mom would tell this horror story, which was her own birth. And then, she had a cat, and one day, the cat was having kittens, and the cat went into the chicken coop where it was dark, and it was just purring loudly, and she just sat there and watched quietly watched this cat, like, easily give birth to these two baby kittens. And then the dog started barking. -Mm -And the cat stopped its labor, took the kitten somewhere else, and had two more kittens. -Mm. -Uh, and so then, she kind of, like, bases the book on, like
Speaker 2
-Mm
Speaker 1
there's this natural way that we can learn from animals that is so much easier and painless like, so much less painful for everybody. And, so when I heard that story, like, it just kept hitting me. Like, that's what I want. I wanna have this, like, relaxed body that does what it's supposed to do. Because our bodies are meant to have babies. Like, it's not a medical procedure. So, so I think that answered your question. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. It sounds like you were yeah. Just, like, trusting in the normal physiological sequence of birth and that you Okay. And and also, I mean, something kind of interesting that I always think of is the fact that you are able to have a vaginal birth in an environment that doesn't support normal birth in any way, even though, you know, yeah, you had assistance or whatever. Like, that always, to me, makes sense that then that would give you perhaps even more confidence to birth at home because you were able to birth in spite of all the hindrance, whereas at home, there's nothing hindering you.
Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. Well, and so that was, I think, a lot of my fear that I had went away with the second birth because after I had the second birth, I felt so, like, happy that I had had the birth that I wanted. Even though there had been other people there, it was all natural. You know, I'd been on my hands and knees. He was a ten pound, one ounce baby. So he was big, and everything was good. I tore less. I still tore because he was huge. But, but it was all all great. But then I still had certain fears. And with the hypnobirthing, I would do the fear releasing sessions, and I would do you know, I would just think relaxed things, and I just thought all the positive things that could happen. And I did research, you know, if if something bad went was gonna happen, what to do in that situation. And and I was still going to my mid my midwife, and I would ask she's a really relaxed person. And I would ask her, like, so what do I do if I have the baby at home? And she, you know, she would tell me what I should do. And some of the stuff, I would just take with a grain of salt and other things. I would be like, oh, that's a good idea. And, so, at this point, you know, I had planned on having the baby at home, but I knew that my husband would want us to go to the hospital. And I also knew that even if I went to the hospital, as long as I wasn't having the baby there, I really felt like I could advocate my rights. Whereas a lot of times when you're you're having the baby, your mind is elsewhere, and you can't always say exactly what you wanna say. And so I felt like that was a good compromise for me and my husband that I could have the baby at home, have it exactly how I wanted, and then we can go to the hospital, and I can say no, no, no, or yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 2
So at some point towards the actual birth, you guys got real about it, and you were like, no, this is really happening. And he was like, okay, fine, but then I want you and the baby to be checked out at the hospital.
Speaker 1
So I'd like to say that happened, but no. The furthest we got in our conversation was I'm not making it to the hospital. And, and we were fine with that.
Speaker 2
But then, I'm sorry. I guess the part I'm missing then is where was this compromise of the So
Speaker 1
Yeah. So the compromise was that my husband was always saying we're going to the hospital, and he he always expressed his fear. Like, he didn't know what to do with the baby. And I and I was fine with going to a hospital because that is what he most wanted. And I love my husband, and I wanted him to feel comfortable about the birth also.
Speaker 2
But wait. I'm I'm sorry. I'm confused. But what do you mean you were fine with going while you were also planning a free birth? You you mean afterwards. Right?
Speaker 1
Yes. Afterwards.
Speaker 2
Okay. After. So in your mind I
Speaker 1
wanted to have my birth. Yeah. Gotcha. Everything fine and then be like, okay. We'll go to the hospital.
Speaker 2
Gotcha. So you were, like, deciding what the compromise was gonna be without necessary like, you kind of already knew.
Speaker 1
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Basically. Okay. Really good communication. Right?
Speaker 2
I mean, yeah, whatever. It sounds like you were still doing what you were it still sounds like you were, you know, like in charge if you were willing to make, you know, compromises can only happen if you're willing to make them. Right?
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so, so as we got closer, so I'm at forty weeks and, you know, everybody's asking me, oh, you haven't had the baby yet? You haven't had the baby yet? And I'm like, no, I haven't, but I'm fine. Like, everything's fine. And I realized for people who go over forty weeks, it isn't so, okay. My sister, she is really good at giving massages. So she would give me massages every day anywhere that I felt sore. It was amazing. And if everybody could have that, it would be amazing. But but when I hit forty weeks, I felt great. You know, I was out, like, mowing the lawn until the day I before I had the baby, and we were going out in walks every day, and I just felt great. And I really think the only hard part for me was everybody saying, What, you haven't had the baby yet? And so But otherwise, mentally, I feel like I was all there, and and I felt great. So so, the last couple days before I had the baby, I had her, according to medical due dates. It would have been forty weeks and six days. So, I had been having Braxton Hicks pretty consistently, but they weren't painful whatsoever. But on the Thursday, I started having them pretty strong. And they were pretty strong all day. And so then that night, my husband was like, let's go on one more date. And so we went on a date and we came home and and tried some things to to get, get contractions going stronger. And then, we watched a movie and then we went to bed at around eleven forty or ten forty five and and we went to sleep. Everything was good. And And during the night, my son, he was in a phase where he wakes up all the time. And so at around twelve fifty five, he came in and tried to get in the bed with me. And I woke up and I was having contractions. And, so I was like, no, Teddy, you can't be in the bed with me. So I took him back. I took him to the bathroom, took him back, and I thought, these contractions are pretty strong. I better get my camera, because I really wanted to record my birth. So I get my little baby monitor and I set it up in the bathroom because my sister and I had kind of done little run throughs like, this is what's maybe gonna happen. Hopefully, that's what I hope. And, so I set up the camera, and I went and got back in bed, and I turned on my hypnobirthing.
Speaker 2
Wait, question.
Speaker 1
-Uh
Speaker 2
-So -Yeah? Your man obviously knows you're in labor.
Speaker 1
So he doesn't know. Oh, okay. I thought Okay, I thought you said
Speaker 2
you were he was trying to help you get stuff started. Okay. So he's still
Speaker 1
Oh, that was okay. Yes. I guess he knew that, but he didn't know I was having real contractions. Okay. He was asleep. So
Speaker 2
were were you planning kind of like an oopsie kind of deal?
Speaker 1
Not with him. Like, I had I had been pretty firm in I'm not making it to the hospital. Like, it was like an indirect way of saying I'm not planning on going. And I we kind of, like, knew each other's vibe, but I hadn't actually said I'm planning a free birth. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Sorry. I'm, like, I'm so fascinated by this dynamic because, like, I can't I can't relate to it. And so I'm that's why I'm asking a ton of questions. I'm trying to, like, picture it in my head. Okay, so you are now obviously in labor, but you have not yet told your partner, but your sister's there.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, my sister's asleep downstairs. I'm I try to go back to sleep, but I turn on my hypnobirthing. And, I'm laying in bed, and they're getting stronger, and I must have fallen back asleep because around one thirty, I hear my son again calling out, Mama, mama, and I'm like, I am not getting up and down to deal with him. So, I reach over, and I shake my husband, and I say, Will you go get Teddy? And so, he gets up, and he goes I didn't tell him I was having real contractions. And he goes, and he doesn't come back. And I'm like, oh, awesome. I now have the room to myself to make noise, to do whatever I want. And, apparently, he had taken Teddy to go try to get him to sleep on the couch. And so, he was on the couch asleep with Teddy. My sister's downstairs, and I'm having contractions on the bed, and and I'm breathing through them. They're not too bad. And, but probably around two thirty, I start feeling like I have to pee every single contraction. So, then, I would I would have a contraction. I'd go sit on the toilet. Then, I'd go back, and then, I'd go back to the toilet, and I was like, This is not working. So, I just started staying on the toilet.
Speaker 2
-Mm
Speaker 1
-Which was great, because then I could fully relax, and everything was going good. And I probably was on there for about an hour. So, at three thirty, I think, my sister and I, like, we did so many preparations. It'd be really sad if I had the baby without her. Although I wanted to be by myself at the same time, I was, like, really enjoying, like, being by myself and relaxing in the dark bathroom. But I thought, Well, we've done all these things, and maybe they'll help. And so I have a contraction. They're probably around thirty seconds apart, lasting for, like, thirty seconds. And so I have a contraction and I go downstairs and she pops up and is like, Is it time? And I'm like, Yeah, it's time. Then I have another contraction and I, like, get down on the floor and she tries to push my hips. And, after the contraction, we go back upstairs and right before I'd gone down to get her, I thought, Oh, I better take out the mats out of the bathroom, and I put down the yoga mat. And, so we get back upstairs, and she puts down a shower curtain that we had bought to make things clean up easy, and she says, I'm gonna go put the towels in the dryer. And I'm like, Oh, you don't need to do that yet. It's not that close. -And she's like, I'll never do it. -Famous last resort. -Anyway. -Yeah. So she goes, Dad, and I'm I have probably two while she's gone. And then she comes back up and she kind of tries to help, like, push my hips. And, and I have one where I'm on the ground in a feta position and looking back, this must have been transition because it's when I had the crazy thought that I was like, oh, maybe I do understand why people want medication. But in my mind, I'm thinking, of course I don't want medication, but I understand why. And you know, the contraction ends, and I think, Oh, that wasn't that
Speaker 2
bad. -Totally.
Speaker 1
-So So then, my sister, she starts saying, like, Oh, let me get the scarf for the Tri Robozo sifting. But I'm, like, totally in my zone at this point, and I can't really respond, and so she leaves to go get that, and I had just had her get my birthing ball, and I turn around to go, like, lean on the birthing ball, and all of a sudden I feel her head, and I'm like, Oh, her head's coming. And I say, Go get Eric! Go get Eric!
Speaker 2
-Oh, my God.
Speaker 1
-And so, Eric, literally ten seconds before, had just gotten up to put Teddy in his bed and he hears, Go get Eric. Oh, my God. Go get Eric. And, so my sister comes back in and I'm like, Her head is coming out. And Eric comes to the doorway and from when I felt her head, crowning like, for the first time when I felt her head to when she was out was thirty seconds. So so right before she came out, I had said well, I guess about five three minutes before I felt her head, I thought, I better turn on my camera. So I turned on my camera.
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1
Then when I felt her head, I turned around because I wanted the best view in my camera. And, and I was kneeling down, and she started coming out. And one of my things I wanted the most was to catch my own baby. So so I had told everyone my sister, like, I'm gonna catch her. And and so so she just, like, shot out. And you saw the GIF that I put on, but she just shot out.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So for anyone who hasn't seen it, she made a little, GIF or GIF. I don't know how to pronounce it. But she made a cool little what, like one second or two second video
Speaker 1
of the little baby.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Shooting out and, and she's on her knees in the bathroom and, and then she just grabs the little slippery baby and pulls her up. And it's so cool.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so, like, she came out, and I felt amazing. Like, I didn't so with my second birth, the thing that I remembered the most was that right after I had him, I got shivers like crazy. And and and I was like, I can't stop shivering. And they're like, oh, your body's just in shock. And and so I was like, I better prepare for this again this time. And so we had gotten the heater and the warm towels, but my body was normal right after I had the baby. Like, I had no side effects of having this baby. -Yeah. -And I remember thinking, like, why is that? And I honestly think it's because everything was so calm and I was so relaxed and everything was exactly how I wanted it. So when he tells the birth story, it goes like this. I was asleep, I woke up, and there was a baby.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1
So he is all smiles because this is his dream labor that I didn't tell him I was having the baby, and he just shows up for the actual birth.
Speaker 2
Wow.
Speaker 1
So that is his version. So he comes in the room.
Speaker 2
He was chill. He wasn't like, oh my god. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1
Yeah. My husband's really chill. And that's one reason probably why I felt okay with our communication level.
Speaker 2
Right. Because that's the thing. That's what made me I I'm so glad to hear that because, unfortunately, I have heard a lot of stories of women doing kind of a similar plan, I e, like, not really telling the the husband. And then, I mean, I I've heard three stories this week of women's husbands, not really being clued into what was happening and them calling nine one one against the, woman's, you know, wishes. And the woman being whisked away in an ambulance, either in labor or immediately after, when that was not something that they wanted. Yeah. So I am so glad that that this worked out for you guys and that you have a chill husband.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And my husband, he saw me doing all of this research, and I'm sure that he clued in. And I I hadn't asked him, like, did you know I was gonna do that? Or, But he saw me doing tons of research. And to his credit, like, whenever we retell the birth story to anyone, at the end, when they kind of have, like, shocked eyes, he's like, you know, to Debbie's credit, she did tons of research, and she knew exactly what she was doing, and I trust her. So Good. So so after I had the baby, he just walked in, and and we just hugged and looked at the baby, and my sister put towels around us.
Speaker 2
-Went on with your day.
Speaker 1
-Yeah, and we just sat down and just hung out with the baby for, and I kept thinking the placenta would come out, really fast, because it had with the others. And I don't know if there had been tugging or pulling with the others. -Yeah. -But it took an hour this time. And so, we just sat there until the placenta was gonna come out. And and then I set I set her down, and the placenta came out. And then I took a shower really fast and got dressed, and then we still just snuggled somewhere. I put the placenta in some bags. And, because I knew that we were going to the hospital, I hadn't planned on a way to cut the cord or anything like that. I had just planned on taking it to the hospital and letting them do it.
Speaker 2
And I think what I'm hearing in your words, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it cause I think it was kind of initially framed that, like, you did it for your husband, but it sounds like a part of you really felt, not not just okay with it, but like like you just said. Like, you wanted to get checked out and you had a history of pretty serious tearing and, and that's so okay. Like, there it doesn't, in some ways, I almost think it's better that, you know, you you really you wanted to do it for yourself as well. Am I correct in that?
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think, I do like the comfort of somebody checking to make sure that I'm okay too. And I think that's why I was okay with going. And, you know, I could tell the baby was fine, but, you know, sometimes somebody else, another pair of eyes, can spot things that I can't spot. I think, like, if I had another one, another child, I would try to get a home birth midwife that would then come to me and check me out Totally. Afterwards. Yeah. So I don't have to go to the hospital. Because I do like the idea of being checked out afterwards, but I do wanna have my birth exactly how I want it. So, so it's kind of a I I guess, like, you know, some people like, when I posted that GIF, there was, like, a comment that was, I can't believe you still went to the hospital.
Speaker 2
-Yeah. I saw that.
Speaker 1
-But, like but, like, the way our dynamic works as a couple, like, that was just what worked for us. And that's how we had planned it, in a way, and -In a way, yeah. -That's just
Speaker 2
-And it will, and -I'll never forget. And to your credit, you know, I mean, I do think that, like, feminist birth people get including myself, get very triggered and and, like, protective when when we hear things like, I did it for my husband. And that's different to me than being, like, I wanted a second pair of eyes. Like, that you get that's a fully autonomous decision. I mean, you heard my birth story. I went to the hospital in labor, not because anybody else wanted me to go, because I wanted a second pair of eyes, exactly like you said. So tell me a little bit about that.
Speaker 1
Okay. So then, that's where the funny the funny parts go. So so then, we stayed at home, for about two hours, and then we woke up our kids, and they came out and saw the baby, and they were so excited and then we got in the car and, I just held the baby and we went to the hospital and, my husband's like, Oh, I'll drop you off. And I was like, No, I'd rather walk in with you. So we walk in to the ER entrance, and I'm holding the baby. And the guy comes out, and he's like, what do you need? And and I say, I think I'm I'm supposed to go to labor and delivery. I'm not totally sure. And he's like, oh, are you getting induced? And I'm like, no. I have the baby right here. I'm like,
Speaker 2
oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1
And he's like, oh. And he kinda like starts to freak out. And so, I'm like, the middle I said go to labor and delivery, I think. And so then, it's like, okay. Go up to labor and delivery. And we we get up to the hallway and the nurses are, like, running towards us and they're like, what's going on? This has never happened before.
Speaker 2
Woah. Really?
Speaker 1
Like, which my midwife had said she does three or four of these a year. But
Speaker 2
Of course it's happened.
Speaker 1
Apparently, these nurses have never done this. So so they're asking me, like, are you a home birth transfer? And I'm like, no. Everything's great. Like, I feel really great, you know. And and so so they take us to this room, and and we're just relaxing in this room, and they're running around for, like, an hour trying to figure out what they're supposed to do. -Oh, my God. -And, and so, we're just relaxing and, eventually, they come back and and kind of well, I'm sure other people have done this, but I just told them it wasn't on purpose. -Mhmm. -You know, kinda lied about it because I didn't want them -Yeah. -to get me in trouble or something. So I'm like, oh, yeah. She just came really fast. And and so we were just at home and they're like, and then you just had the placenta. And I'm like, yeah. I decided I didn't wanna drive right in the car with the cord coming out.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And so so they just took it, I guess. They might have questioned it, but,
Speaker 2
And were you forthcoming with saying, like, We're here because I wanna get my vagina checked out?
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I was like, We're just here to get checked out. Like, we think everything's great. And so, then, we, we after the nurse came back, we weighed the baby and cut the cord and, she was nine pounds, six ounces. And, I said I wanted to save the placenta, so I they bagged that up for me. And then, they they said, well, we want to admit the bee. And I was like, well, that's fine. That was fine with me. And I wanted Well, they said, do you wanna be admitted to? And I was like, well So, I don't know if you know, but at hospitals, they give these really great cups to mothers who just had, babies. And I
Speaker 2
Wait. Did you just say Really? You said
Speaker 1
cup? Cups?
Speaker 2
Like a
Speaker 1
big sixty four ounce mug.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The huge plastic. Like, they're, like, guillared ones.
Speaker 1
I wanted one so bad. I was like, well, if I get admitted or if I don't get admitted, can I still have the cup? And they're like, we we'll get you the cup.
Speaker 2
Wow. That is the weirdest thing I've ever heard.
Speaker 1
I know. It sounds weird, but like, I just wanted that cup so bad because I love that cup. My old cup had died. And so so
Speaker 2
It's like a big bulb for anyone who doesn't know.
Speaker 1
That's true. I could go get one at a seven Eleven or something. But No, you wanted a labor
Speaker 2
and delivery cup. That's right.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So we ended up so that we could get food also because I wanted room service. And so, because she was born out of the hospital, they call the babies contaminated. So, they put us in the far corner. They hardly bugged us at all, because we were just like these random people who had showed up. And, it turned out to be like this really great experience, because they were pretty chill about it, and my husband and I, or just the three of us, we had this alone time with the baby. They only came in a few times. And, I did end up having a first degree tear, but they she was like, We can stitch it or not stitch it. And so, I didn't get it stitched.
Speaker 2
-Nice. That's awesome.
Speaker 1
-We just hung out, and it was so relaxing. And, it wasn't till the very end when the pediatrician came in and tried to tell me what to do with my baby. And and I was like, No, we're not doing that. Like, I'm gonna do it the way I want to do it. And they never took the baby away never tried to take the baby away, and I kept her close, and and it was a really great experience. We came home, and everything has been so great since then, and, like, my recovery has been the best of all of them. And I really think, like, because the birth was exactly how I wanted it, like, my body has just, like, bounced back, and and it it was great. And so, like, whenever I think about the birth, like, I The only word that comes to my mind is, like, magical. Like, it was so magical. Everything happened exactly how I wanted it to go, and nobody tried to tell me what to do, and it was perfect, so
Speaker 2
-That's beautiful. -Um -That's wild.
Speaker 1
-Yeah, and I guess, also, to add to that, so, we came back on a Saturday and my husband and my sister and the boys went to church on Sunday. And there were about a million stories going around of how I had the baby on the bed. And one of them, I had it on the grass and another one, I had it over a bucket. Wow. And everybody was like, she's this crazy like, this wonder woman. How does she have a baby all by herself? And and I'm just sitting there. And so for the first, like, couple probably, like, three weeks, I didn't wanna tell anyone what really happened. I'd just tell them, like, oh, she just came really fast. And but then as I, like, you know, grew to really love my story more Mhmm. Then then I've started telling people, and I'll tell people that that I know well the story. But in general, I know the people who I know won't accept my story for how great I feel it is, and they get the condensed version. But And
Speaker 2
and it is better, you know, I think after the fact because you have proof, you know, instead of people being like, but what if? It's like, well, look. You know, it it worked,
Speaker 1
didn't it? And that's what I actually learned. Like, we had, some people come over and they were so sweet and they mowed our lawn for us and a couple men from our neighborhood came. And I learned that men tell bad birth stories just as much as women do.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, because we love the drama. Right? It's all like it's the worst, most dramatic stuff.
Speaker 1
And so I'm sitting here trying to protect my husband from these bad birth stories, because I go outside, and, I go to tell him something, and his phone rings, and he walks away for a second, and all of a sudden, these guys are trying to tell Eric about their horror stories, and I'm like, Eric, stay away. Stay away. Don't come back home. -Seriously. And I walk away too. And I'm like, I don't wanna hear these stories. Like, we need to not tell these horrible stories. Tell the good stories. So
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. But the thing is the good stories are like well, your story. Right? It's like simple. There's no drama to it other than the fact that a person coming out of a person is pretty crazy. But
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know, I mean, that's the beauty of of the majority of the Friberg stories on this podcast is went into labor, did some stuff, walked around, you know, did some things, had a baby, caught up, laid in bed. Like, it's it's gorgeous in its normal station and and it's and, you know, often anticlimactic, you know, experience. Because, obviously, what we're trying to do is normalize birth. And for you to have just, like, gone through the night and spent some time alone in the bathroom and, you know, you know, had your family there and popped a baby out and went and cuddled and had your kids meet the baby girl. Like, that's that's about as good as it gets, but there's not much drama to that.
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's true. But I prefer my story, for sure.
Speaker 2
Hell, yeah, of course.
Speaker 1
Well, and I think I think it's fun to listen to these podcasts and see like, really they are kind of exciting because it's like you took it into control yourself, you know? Exactly. You didn't let somebody else try to make you do what you didn't wanna do.
Speaker 2
Oh yes, of course. Yeah. I mean, it won't. Right? That's what people are focusing on is that you free birth and, you know, and that is that is the inherent kind of drama or excitement around it. Yeah. I mean, for for us who are into it, it's like you just said, it's taking it into our own hands and creating an experience. Like, really actually saying we can be in charge of this experience, instead of how a culture paints it, which is we are a victim to this experience. You know? And and it feels as you experienced, it feels a heck of a lot different to say, I am in charge of this, and look what I can do. And and look at I mean, you know, you created the exact vision, or you actualized the exact vision that you held in your heart. It's it's beautiful. You know? And I like your story for a lot of reasons, and I I like that, I know that some women listening to this are like, I can't believe she went to the hospital when everything was fine. You know? And that was my initial reaction, but I think that it's important to talk about because a lot of women do make that choice that you made as well. Yeah. And well, there does.
Speaker 1
I even had somebody, somebody Facebook messaged me, a person I didn't know and was like, I wanna do exactly what you did. Like, I know my husband would be more comfortable if we went to the hospital, but I wanna have a free birth. And she asked me all these questions, and I told her, like, exactly what we did. And I think there's a lot of people who are transitioning, you know, like, they're transitioning to the free birth. And, you know, not everybody can make the leap, like, right at first.
Speaker 2
And the and I think the only thing I wanna make sure to say to people that are listening, just real talk, is you got really lucky with how you were treated. And, unfortunately, that is not the norm of the stories that I hear of women going after the birth. And I love and I'm so grateful that you had such a positive experience. And, of course, I wish that for everybody who wants to go. But if you are a woman of color, if you, you know, if you maybe weren't at that exact hospital, if it was a different nurse, I mean, it goes so, so different so, so quickly for different people or, different hospitals and different staff. And,
Speaker 1
you know,
Speaker 2
you didn't have to, it sounds like, interact. Did you even get CPS called on you? No. Yeah. So that's that's almost unheard of. I mean, you know you know me. I'm collecting these stories. And in the, you you know, year and a half that I've dedicated really collecting, you know, hundreds and hundreds of stories, yours actually might be the first one I've heard, where CPS wasn't involved. And so Yeah.
Speaker 1
There was no mention of it.
Speaker 2
Which is amazing. Like, your story is the example of what it should be if you want to use the hospital for exactly what you used it for. And I don't want our listeners to, to think that that is necessarily what they're going to get. Because it's it's very likely not. And so, it's you know we gotta like hold it on both. We have to hold both truths at once. That you really had such a privilege and a blessing to get to use it. Use the system to your advantage. And you know what? So did I. You know, I mean, I mean, I'm the exact I'm in the exact same boat. Right? On on the birth end, you went post partum. I went in birth. But, for for a, you know, perfect storm of privilege and timing and staff and everything, I got to use the system for what I needed it for. Nothing more, nothing less. And on my terms. And it sounds like you did too. And I just I feel like I have a responsibility with you know the thousands of women listening to this that that is not necessarily going to be your story if you go. And so, you know, you have to hold it with with real hands and you have to be willing to enter into a system that, can sweep can sweep you off your feet and can not respect your no and not give informed consent. They might take your baby. These are real stories I hear. So not to, like
Speaker 1
yeah. I totally think, well, because I kind of decided the free birth thing pretty late in the pregnancy, like, around thirty five ish weeks. And, you know, if I could recommend anything to someone, it would be, you know, if you plan on getting checked out, try to find a provider or a home birth midwife or or some or even a birthing center, you know, that will respect your wishes as much as possible. You know, someone that you feel comfortable with. Because the the hard thing with hospitals is you don't know any of the people. You know? You don't you haven't built any kind of relationship with them. And so, you don't know who's gonna be there and how they're gonna respond. So
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, you're a great example of for someone who does want that, you know, how it can work. And I think your advice is absolutely correct. And and when should be the first choice for anybody, you know, please, if you want to birth at home on your own terms and still want a wise woman who is, educated in all things perineum and birth and postpartum, you know, of course that would be ideal to have a trusted woman that you can pay, to have come assess you if that is what you want. Obviously tons of free birthers specifically don't want to be assessed. But if you do want to be assessed, that's fine. But be, try to prenatally really be, conscious of who that assessment, you know, is, who's going to do that assessment, are they really available, are they going to be on your terms, you know, and and what that would look like. Because you're right. If a midwife could come over and assess you in bed, oh my gosh. I mean, there's no Yeah.
Speaker 1
Because that's what I thought of him. Like, that would've been so nice to not actually have to leave the house.
Speaker 2
Of course.
Speaker 1
Just stay in
Speaker 2
your own environment with your kids. And, and absolutely. I mean, and even that would be a huge privilege because you're gonna have to pay them and there's ton unfortunately, you know, there's so many women that don't have access to there aren't even midwives in their town. But if you are in a town that has it and you do have access to it, of course, that is such a good good piece of advice. Uh-huh. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. It was a great story, and that is so crazy that your husband woke up and saw a baby be born. I love that.
Speaker 1
Think it will always be his favorite birth story. Oh, yeah. Like, I really think especially since we've had this experience now, like like, he trusts me. Like, we're trusting each of each other and but I think now he is so much more open to me saying, next time, let's not go to the hospital, or next time, let's do it differently in this other way, or I'm gonna plan on a free, free birth the whole time, you know? Cool. Just because he knows that I've done so much research and it went so well.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. You're baby stepping into it. But sounds like you're kicking ass. So thank you. That was such a cool story. And, yeah, if anyone hasn't seen that, GIF or JIF, sorry. I don't know how to say it. On my Freebird Society Instagram. I have it posted up from a couple weeks ago, and it's super cool. So thank you so much for sharing your story today.
Speaker 1
Thank you.
Speaker 2
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth Podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
