Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea.
Speaker 2
I have a very exciting announcement to make. The official free birth society membership network is now live. We have abandoned mainstream social media and created our own private network, a truly safe space where women can be free to talk about pregnancy, birth, holistic mothering, and, of course, radical birth work. And you don't have to be a hardcore free birther to join. This is for any woman who is curious about natural birth and natural mothering and who wants to explore any of the ideas that we touch on in this podcast in more depth. It's also a great resource for women who are planning a free birth, a place to share stories, ideas, information, and most importantly, community and support. Head to our website at free birth society dot com to apply. We are so proud of this new space, and we can't wait to welcome you. Come join us in the fun. When Phoenix became pregnant with her first child, she was living in Atlanta, Georgia and was self admittedly still a girl. But the birth of her son launched her into a discovery of self love and conscious living. Phoenix moved her family to Hawaii and pregnant with her second child found herself homeless for many months trying to find her new flow. Her story ends happily with a gorgeous example of ecstatic birth, midwifery.
Speaker 1
I think my mind kinda goes to the girl version of me before even womanhood even was something that I thought I could become. I just always knew I wanted children. I always felt that deep within me, and, I don't know. It was it was hard growing up knowing that innately and then going through experiences in life where I didn't feel like maybe I would do the job correctly, you know, and that was my journey up until I got pregnant. Mhmm. I just, just kinda back and forth where I would like, oh, I want kids, and then it was like, no. I'm not gonna be a good mom. Like, you know, what the heck? And, like, right before Naomi was born, I was in the space where I was just like, you know, never mind about kids. You know? If it happens, you know, it's gonna be something that's gonna break me more than I I I feel like I will be able to handle. And, before I even got the confirmation of his birth, I knew I was pregnant. I was, really upset about it. I was really, like, just, like, you know, just not confident in myself. I just felt like, you know, the creator gave me this gift and I wasn't worthy for some reason. Mhmm. So I really went through some kind of just inner turmoil with that, and it became, you know, better and better as, I guess, symptoms started to show up, I guess, within my first pregnancy, they were gonna call me. And, you know, I never even thought about natural birthing or really anything particular about birthing except for, you know, that I knew that it happened, if that makes sense. Like, I wasn't too into any like, the whole Instagram, I don't know, phase you know, that just how they, like, blow up the birthing and the pregnancy and all that. I just really wasn't in that realm. I just was all, like, single selfish minded and, you know, that's just the phase of maidenhood that I was in. Totally.
Speaker 2
It's but you weren't living on Kauai yet?
Speaker 1
No. We weren't. We were in Atlanta at this time. Okay. Okay. So, that also gave it just a different vibe. So I I guess as as soon as I was pregnant with you
Speaker 2
Being pregnant in Hawaii and Atlanta. Completely different.
Speaker 1
I mean, when I became pregnant with him, immediately, I went to the hospital. Sure. It wasn't even any kind of question. You know? It was just this is kind of the protocol deal, you know, watching, you know, like, Kardashians type the birth stories of you on TLC, you know, things like that. It's just, like, that's just how it went. Totally. Not that I was like, I didn't want that, but it felt like that's where I needed to go to get a confirmation even that I was pregnant. And just my first experience going, we go and, you know, I'm throwing up, you know, sick, not feeling well, and they're just like, well, eat whatever you want. They gave me a prescription for some pills, and it just you know, and they were just like, you know, eat whatever you want. Good luck. And it was just like, well, that wasn't the experience that I thought I was supposed to get. I thought I was
Speaker 2
gonna be respected and this is gonna be treated magically.
Speaker 1
Right. Like Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And Were you already, into, like, conscious living and healthy eating and and, you know, all all
Speaker 1
the Right. Yeah. I was I was in it a bit. I was in it a bit, not fully. I mean, motherhood really brought all of this this spiritual aspect in the the woman out of me, honestly. That's why I referred to myself as a girl at that point because, you know, I didn't even I you know, I wasn't taking care of my body. I knew that I could and, you know, I was about the fruit life. Like, eat your watermelon, drink your water, but still was drinking and not eating the best and, you know, just kinda you know, just about the the look of it, but not really, like, understanding. Like, I didn't really understand how to take care of my body until my shirt came came, you know, eating properly, drinking. Like, it's like I feel good doing these things. You know? Right.
Speaker 2
But it is. It's like the actual wanting to feel good when once you do it, it is contagious.
Speaker 1
It's great. It's great. I mean, I've I've battled with anorexia, like, all the throwing up, just the disassociating myself with food and controlling all of that. I didn't respect food. I didn't feel like it respected me. It was just this this thing to just throw around. And it's I mean, it's just night and day how I am with food now.
Speaker 2
Like Wow.
Speaker 1
I love food. I love it. And Good. I love feeling that I can nourish myself, and it's not this man, I would just forget to eat just all this just dumb stuff, like, just, you know, little girl stuff. And I
Speaker 2
was like,
Speaker 1
yeah, I I'm just proud of myself and this journey that it has brought me to at least be able to do that for myself, you know? That's huge. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. So what was your pregnancy like? When you go to the hospital, you get confirmation, you're like, oh, damn. That wasn't so great. You're what's your pregnancy like?
Speaker 1
So, from that first appointment, we were like, okay. Let's do the midwife thing. You know, it just it immediately was like, okay. We have to do a three sixty. We have to do something else because it didn't it didn't feel good.
Speaker 2
So Midwife out of hospital or in?
Speaker 1
She the actually, the woman we found was out of hospital. Okay. We were just, like, done with the hospital at that point, honestly. So the midwife we found, she was just a home birthing woman, very solid, you know, just grandma energy, and we felt safe. You know, we felt good. So yeah. So we had our journey in pregnancy with her.
Speaker 2
You know, I That first interaction with the hospital was enough for you to be like, no. I'm good actually. And Yeah. And something just you just knew something within you was like, okay. I wanna go this go about this in a more normal way.
Speaker 1
And obviously, it was Naomi obviously pulling at me like, no. Right. No. This is not the deal, mom. Yeah. You know? He's like, we could do better. Yeah. We could do a little bit better. Yeah. You know? And I wanna preface just the overview of Naomi's story, with the midwife. I'm not gonna mention her name. Sure. But I do wanna talk about kind of the just the the nonsense that kinda went on with the midwife and that whole kind of propaganda that led me to my second birth and wanting to disassociate myself with that type of midwife that I dealt with. Yeah. So the the woman, who we tracked into our space to do that, she's very, you know, to the books with her midwife, like, lifestyle. You know? So in a way so that it would, sometimes, it would make me feel bad. It would make me feel like I wasn't doing enough.
Speaker 2
Like what?
Speaker 1
Give me
Speaker 2
an example.
Speaker 1
So an example, eating enough food. Eating enough food. So I told you I was gonna say that I have
Speaker 2
have so much energy around food.
Speaker 1
Right. Right. Already have that.
Speaker 2
And she
Speaker 1
would really make me feel bad. Like, if I I would go in for my win, if I maybe lost a pound or didn't gain five and gain three, and she, like, we gotta get it together. And I remember one time leaving crying. Yes. Of course. Like, I'm not doing enough for you know? Like, in
Speaker 2
Oh. Like, let's add some more shame on Right.
Speaker 1
Like yeah. And it was just like like I, you know, I I remember just feeling lost within that. Like, it's like, am I supposed to trust this woman, give her all of my energy, give her all of my trust so she can birth my baby? You know? That's what the whole thing was about. Her birthing my baby.
Speaker 2
Which obviously
Speaker 1
makes my sense. Yeah. Yeah. And and did
Speaker 2
she I'm curious. Did she have you do food logs?
Speaker 1
Yes. She did. Yeah. I have stressful for me. Yep.
Speaker 2
I have a huge fucking issue Yeah.
Speaker 1
With the
Speaker 2
weight with the weighing in and the food logs. Obviously, you're a great example of of why and it's more obvious with women who have, you know, more like outward issues, but Right. What woman doesn't have weight and food issues?
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Like just it would that's literally how we're conditioned. That's literally how we're trained to be on some level. I mean, I've all I don't know if I've ever met a woman who's just like totally doesn't care about the number on the scale or the food and all of that. So I've seen that be so destructive and so stressful and so, just absolutely pulling pulling the the midwife and the woman out of what the actual point and dynamic of the dynamic is.
Speaker 1
Yep. Yeah. And it yeah. And it even on some level was her even kinda messing with me because I I'm a very small woman. I'm five one. I'm normally, like, one zero eight, one zero five. That's just, you know, my deal. And I felt she's more of a heavyset woman. I felt like she was bullying me in a way. Like, you need to eat more. Like, no. No. No. No. Like, why are you not like, she came over to my house, looked in our pantry, in the kitchen, and just was, like, you know, like, I'm I'm concerned that maybe you need to be, like, eating out more or la la la because We, you know, cooked a lot of food from home. It was like it was intense. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I know a lot of midwives like that.
Speaker 1
It's and and that's what I'm saying. It's like she's, you know, doing it out of her you know, she's by the books. It's just she's not having any open mind to anything. And she's, you know, not a older woman, but she's, you know, good in her fifties. So she's been doing this for thirty whatever years, you know, birth hundreds of babies. So
Speaker 2
And well, she hasn't birthed hundreds of babies. She's Exactly.
Speaker 1
And Right. And we gotta be careful about that. We got to. Yeah. Goodness.
Speaker 2
You know, but but and it's interesting. Right? Because, like, a midwife doesn't mean that they're a therapist. It doesn't mean that they're a good counselor. It doesn't mean that they know how to read a fucking room, you know? And it just but but in a way, it kind of should mean that if if the midwifery lifestyle is with women, you know, and is about, holding and loving and nurturing. You know, I just see so many midwives miss that point and and focus on the charting and the, the food log and and honestly, the projection and the shame, which is the last thing with a with a woman who has body issues already in pregnancy. I mean, come on. Man, anyway, sorry. Go ahead.
Speaker 1
No. It's it's it's really disappointing, but I'm I'm glad that I went through it, you know, so that I can get out of it and be able to Sure. Tell the tale and, like, you know, you don't have because I have a lot of women coming on my Instagram asking me questions, like, should I be eating that? I'm like, girl, eat what you want. Like, be happy. Like, obviously, you have conscious decisions, but, like, you must, like, eat heartily and be fed good. Like, it's it's it's these things are not things we should be focusing on.
Speaker 2
And wherever you're at today is where you're at today. And, like, that's where we have to start, you know? I mean, tomorrow, you might eat more nourishing or whatever, but today Exactly. Is where we're at. And, yeah. Just, like, we need to learn how to actually be in that space.
Speaker 1
I mean, even
Speaker 2
it says so much that people are like, that you don't know are asking you questions on Instagram, like like that we need that kind of validation and to be seen so badly that it's
Speaker 1
just, ugh, it's so sad. Anyway, okay. Keep going. Yeah. And I I even, you know, even with the whole and I I don't wanna say propaganda with veganism, but there is a little bit of I mean, you know, the media tells us what they want us to pour our money into. You know, like, and I'm in full, like, awareness that even people who are doing this vegan lifestyle, like, if you're craving meat and you're asking me, oh, did you eat a little meat? Is it okay to, like, eat the meat? Come on. No. Like, do it. Like, that is you have to, like, regardless of whatever is the healthiest, whatever is the best, sometimes we have to take in from the earth what we need to be able to be here. Like, we have to be grounded into the earth. Like, all of it is
Speaker 2
And stop asking for permission from everyone else, you know? Damn. But that's really it. Like, this is the socialization of women. Like, I'm sure men aren't asking you if they should eat meat. Right. You know what I mean? No. Like, this is it. That we are constantly, you know, socialized to ask permission and, you know, women like you and I who are asked questions like this all the time, of course, the position that we have is to be careful with with that authority and reflect back instead of take, you know? And and reflect back, like, that that these women have their own inner guidance and and to start fucking listening to it. Yeah. You don't know if this woman should eat meat. I don't know. You know? It's just my goodness.
Speaker 1
But it sounds to me if you're asking me if your body wants to eat meat. Like, you
Speaker 2
know, like, eat it. Exactly.
Speaker 1
You know, and I wanna say something with the the father connection too because I get this a lot as well that the whenever these midwives are doing this thing, they kind of coach the dads to bully as well. And I found that my partner was doing this food controlling thing with me where it's like, no. You don't need to do eat eat that or let's eat da da da da. And it's like we kinda take the the care out of it Mhmm. And it becomes this this bullying thing all around and it just puts that, you know, the stifle within the relationship. Like, I have questions like that a lot. Like, my mom won't let me eat this and
Speaker 2
girl. Yeah. That everyone has authority in a woman's pregnancy except for the woman. So this speaks to such a classic dynamic of even by hiring the midwife, it just replaces the doctor telling it, you know, how it's gonna be and telling the partner, you know, basically how to monitor and control, and what to look out for. And, yeah, it's just like when the when at what point do we send her the actual woman? Just like when the when at what point do we send her the actual woman?
Speaker 1
Yep. So moving forward into the birth with Naomi, so I'm having just all this kind of turmoil experience with this woman, but at the same time, putting my complete trust in her. Like, she's my God. Like, she is going to save me. That's that's how I felt going into the birth. Just this mentality, you know? Okay. So contractions started. So I'm having some different, you know, sensations. So I call the lady, and I'm like, yo, what do we do? Blah blah blah. She's like, oh, nothing's happening. Call me back in three hours. Just really, like, kinda, like, mean at this point. We're like, okay. Damn. Sorry to annoy you.
Speaker 2
Right. Right.
Speaker 1
But I think I'm having my baby. Like, so, things don't progress. We move into the night and the next day. So we we're also having a situation where we had a balance, a monetary balance with this woman. Oh. And everything was supposed to be paid in full before the birth.
Speaker 2
Of course.
Speaker 1
Well, my son decides to come before our balance is paid, but this puts just this crazy energy with her. So she changes completely from this grandmother, all encompassing whatever to just an asshole. And just like, well, you guys didn't pay me, so I'm not gonna go to the birth. You guys should go to the hospital. No. Because yeah.
Speaker 2
Well, what what week did he come?
Speaker 1
He came a day before his due date. So June twentieth, his due date was twenty first.
Speaker 2
Did you have some sort of contractor agreement with her about when it would be paid up?
Speaker 1
It was kind of a loose type of thing, you know. And I don't know. Just us feeling like she's the grandmother that she was. If we didn't it wasn't like we didn't it the thing was he was born whatever the Monday or Tuesday, and he didn't get paid till Friday type of thing. Like, it wasn't even that we couldn't pay, it just was like why is that even the issue? You know, like we'll pay you the money, like what the, you know, why are you so quick to like push us to the hospital? Like when you know that's not what we want to do. So she's like I'm not doing your birth, You have to go to the hospital.
Speaker 2
Did she literally say, like, I'm not doing your birth that you haven't paid me? Right. Damn.
Speaker 1
So we're like, okay. What the heck? We're not going to the hospital. You know? It was like, like, we didn't want to do that. And so we end up calling this lady once my contractions start to intensify just out of fear. Like, please, like, please, can we can you please do this birth? Like, we can pay you he actually ended up getting an advance, and we paid her the day after the birth.
Speaker 2
Oh my god. That's so stressful.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, you know, whatever, it got cleared, but it was like she was like, okay. No. No. No. Like, as long as you guys pay me, dah dah dah. So it's like, we have that over our heads during the entire process. So
Speaker 2
I will say, I feel like I have to just voice that I have because I've done a lot of births with midwives, I have seen midwives get fucked over
Speaker 1
and Right.
Speaker 2
And I feel it. And and I actually have too. I mean, as a doula, I've been in positions where there was an outstanding balance
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And of course, I still went and I never got paid. And so that is awkward, like I'm It is. Defending her. I'm just I'm remembering all these stories now of of when I worked for midwives where
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
That happened. And so maybe at some point, you know, they have to draw a boundary. Agreed. Sucks because that hurt her. Well, it's
Speaker 1
just within all of that. It just was like like you said, awkward. Totally awkward. Money is
Speaker 2
money is so awkward. Yeah.
Speaker 1
So it was just, you know, we went in with went in with that energy, went in with, you know, kind of the hands off mentality that I needed her to be there with me. My mother and my mother-in-law were there once my contractions were pretty heavy. And then she we called her and she finally came over. She actually sent two other midwives that I hadn't really even met really before to come because she said that I wasn't ready yet. And then once she did finally get there, she was upset that she got there because she said I wasn't far along enough
Speaker 2
to have a good
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, and it was just like the energy just changed up. So and it it felt in a way like we were trying to please this woman. Right. Right. My best friend was there. She made her a whole meal. She was cleaning up.
Speaker 2
She was
Speaker 1
down there ordering her do and it was just like, hello? Whose party is this? Is this your girlfriend or your
Speaker 2
Okay. Like, please help me
Speaker 1
birth my baby.
Speaker 2
I'm like,
Speaker 1
you know, I thought,
Speaker 2
man. Yeah. So we And, honestly, it was super irresponsible of her to show up and have bad energy. Like, just don't fucking show up. You know? For real. If you can't show up clean and ready to serve and and be a a midwife, just just don't show up.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Ugh. Okay. So then what happened? Yeah. So, yeah, my labor, ended up being twenty seven hours. And just it was just this pulling tug of me feeling like I was I just even just during the contractions, I remember pain. And then this is different from how I remember Ayeni's birth. Like, I remember pain in the Comey's birth because I was resisting Yeah. And I was fishing for help and to be rescued by Mhmm. My mother-in-law, you know, Antwana. You know, everyone was great support and anybody help me, you know. And once I transitioned, I stopped that's what I do when I transition, I completely stopped talking. So for some reason, this freaked her out. So another thing in Atlanta, midwifery is certain, I guess, it's not really legal in some kind of way. So she also had that over her head, like, you know, that whole kind of a scary thing for her, that fear for her. So at a certain point, I stopped talking, and I wasn't pushing, but he he was kind of crowning. So everybody just kinda freaked out, and they put oxygen on me.
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1
And yeah. But I remember being fine. I was just transitioning. He was about to come, you know, but I didn't know that. They didn't know that. So we call the ambulance. No. And yeah. The ambulance pulls up. Antoine carries me down the stairs. You know, I'm mute at this point. Remember, I'm, like, about to push. He carries me out. The ambulance people meet us at the doors and scream at Antoine to put me down. Woah. That I cannot walk, that he I have to walk the rest of the way. So he puts me down and I'm like thirty minutes away from giving birth to Nikani. And I have to walk to the ambulance, climb in by myself, but whatever protocol, I don't know. I get into the back, they won't let Antoine in the back with me. What? So I'm back here with this stranger by myself, and I'm like pulling on this woman's clothes, like like, you know, just eyes out. I can't speak to her, and I'm just like, I'm like, he's coming. Like, I can't and she's like, calm down. He's not coming.
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 1
I've had three babies before, and she just really needs me. Yeah. And they drive, and that's the crazy thing as well. They they didn't drive like they were in an ambulance. They drove
Speaker 2
slow. Ew.
Speaker 1
They drove as if it was no emergency at all. Antoine's in the front and back there like, you know, about to give birth. So we pull up to the hospital and she's still being really mean to me just like calm down, you're not about to have this baby. So we I get up get into the, room that they pull me in. They lift up my clothes and the Comey's basically out. And you just see the color drain from her face. And she's so embarrassed and, like, so, you know, apologetic. And they rushed to get the doctors, we go in another room. It's like ten nurses in the room plus my family and everybody. And man, the pressure is on at this point. And I'm pushing. They're help you know, I'm doing the whole thing. Antoine, like, takes off his shirt because it's freezing in the room. He stuffs the vents with his shirt. We're just, like, and, like, crazy in here. Just trying to, like, make our way. And it's just, like, everything is, like
Speaker 2
Against you.
Speaker 1
Not against us, you know. And it's, like, such a testament to the Nkomi's strength and who he is now, you know, like, warrior spirit. But yeah. So everybody, pushing for a while, and everyone just gets disappointed. They're like, you know, the baby's not coming yet. I'm like,
Speaker 2
It's like the story of your birth.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Right. I'm like, hell no. Hell no. So but what happens is everybody's attention got off of me for a minute. And it's the only point in my whole birth story where I was able to be with myself and my ancestors and to really call on the women who had done this before. And it was just like, you can do this. And I remember this woman, she disappeared after I gave birth. I don't even know if she was real. I really feel like this is, like, my future self. Like, my my guardian angel, this African woman was standing in the back, and she was looking at me just, she was like, make eye contact with me. Like, you can do this. And I focused on her, gave out the biggest scream of my life, and outbirthed Naomi. And yeah. So needless to say, we were exhausted. We went to our room. We were presented with a bag of fucking candy and signing off on everything. Just got out of there the next day as quickly as we could. And the midwife, she just disappeared. She didn't even stay to see me, you know, give birth born be give birth because of the Regularly. Last bag. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Did she show up at the hospital at all?
Speaker 1
She she came she drove in the car, like, behind the ambulance and then kinda was in the back and then she just kinda disappeared after that. So even her not being there was kind of it was still hard because I still, like, wanted that approval from her. Like, I wanted her to say, you know, good job, all that, throughout everything, and I didn't even have that. So
Speaker 2
but Damn. That is a fucking nuts transfer story. I mean, most transfer stories are nuts, honestly. That's interesting though that I'm I'm, like, picturing that space of when when you went quiet and that that that space wasn't held for you. Yeah. Because that's when the magic is really even the term, you know, even that term transition, you know, when I began transitioning, you said, I mean, that holds so much there. When I began transitioning, like, whatever that is that women do right before they open up to pass their babies, so often that space isn't held, respected, honored, revered, loved, nourished, you know, as it as it should be.
Speaker 1
And It's like the pressure is on once you get to that phase for some reason. You know? It's like, alright. Let's get her to do her the one thing we need her to do, like
Speaker 2
Man, I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So how did you process all of that? I mean, then, obviously, you had a baby not not too long after that again. So what was that first year of of mothering like for you?
Speaker 1
I mean, the the the first couple days after were hard for me because, I didn't understand that I could love somebody that much. And, honestly, that fucked me up. Because it was like, I thought I was gonna I went through that whole birthing massacre. Yeah. And it was just gonna be, I don't know, this blame game for a while for me. And it it wasn't. Like, it was instant, like, man. Like, you know, I'm, like, crying baby blues for the next couple days because it's like like, oh, that was worth it. You know? And, like and I I was scared that it wasn't gonna be worth it within the birthing, you know, all of that drama. I I I feared that it was gonna damage my relationship with my son, and it didn't. So for that, I'm thankful. Mhmm. But in terms of processing the birth, I mean, honestly, you know, it was hard for me to share my story or talk about it because I I did feel like it was negative. And the fact that just circum you know, all the circumstances, it was just intense. So I didn't really know how to you know, I just heard only the, you know, the flowery stories of, you know, la la la. We had the pitocin or whatever or even, you know, the natural birth. Like, I just felt like everybody's story kinda flowed more and mine was just kinda like all these jagged edges. My baby came, you know, here he is, you know.
Speaker 2
And what most women share about their stories is the flowery stuff and is is the cute, you know, photos and is the it was worth it piece because Yep. The jagged edges, which most births have Yep. If not all, you know, there there's there's that's part of birth, you know, not not that it should be chaotic and abusive, but but it's always like facing your shit, you know, whatever that looks like. So okay. So, yeah. So you're totally in love and bonding with this little kid and you're processing all this crazy entry point that just happened. One thing I'm I'm curious about, and and it's probably still a theme, you know, through this next birth, but how, if at all, did it shift your body image and your relationship to food? Like, I I want you to speak, because you mentioned it before, just to, you said that, you know, becoming a mother has really transformed your relationship with yourself in a nourishing way, that's not your
Speaker 1
direct will.
Speaker 2
But how speak to that a little bit for me.
Speaker 1
I mean I mean, just the minute he was here, I just I just began to look at myself as just this delicate mirror of him that I was once him in this state, and I don't know. Like, that's what inspired our move to Hawaii. That's why, you know, everyone you know, this drastic life changes that I'm I'm making is just, like, because I can do better. I don't have to just forget about myself. I don't have to forget about the things that are important to be, like, a sustainable human here. You know? And it just gave me, like, just the opportunity to, like, just look at myself in another way. Like, I don't know with, you know, breastfeeding, you have the you're making milk. You know? Just the milk just is not just there. You know? You're actively creating it. So knowing that I was a participant in doing it, I because I didn't understand that before. You know? I just thought that it was just a function breastfeeding. It's just something that happened. You know? Not that I'm, you know, like, I'm making milk. The water that I drink is filling up my breasts. The food that I'm doing is filling up my breasts literally. And, you know, Naomi was always such a good eater too. So, it just felt good that I, you know, I was bringing comfort to him and that I could live better for myself for him indirectly. Like, I don't know. I just I just I just never looked at myself as as, like, a like, a star, as important, as significant. You know? I just, you know, I always am, like, just I'm just like a melting pot type of person. You know? Like, I I like that feeling, but sometimes it takes me out of myself in that I don't take care of myself. You know?
Speaker 2
And And it's interesting that in a in a culture that teaches us and and treats mothers as invisible, that you found the opposite to be true. That's really beautiful, you know, because society puts all this focus on the young maiden, you know, and that that's like our prime and that that's, you know, we're we're here for the male gaze. Right? And then and once you're a woman once you're a mother, it's like, it's you don't even get seen anymore. And you're invisible and no one asks about you and blah blah blah blah blah as we all, you know, can relate to that. And then all of a sudden, here's your story that is the completely different ex you know, opposite experience where you are seeing yourself, with respect and with with some, like, significant visibility Yeah. In this whole new way. It's so beautiful.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I, it's kinda like my thing that I preach about. Like, after Naomi was born, I'm just, like, telling everybody, like, please have a child. And not even in the way, like, you know, like, you know, the time and, you know, perfect. But, like, it's just that none of those things matter because when your baby gets here, like, it's like you don't know until you know. Yeah. And I didn't know, and now I know that this is what I've been searching for all my life. This is, like, that true love connection because it's not about that person that you make, you you know, your lover or whoever. It's not about that. It's about the creation and the replica and the the evolution of ourselves. That's the true love. You know? All that other stuff is just to distract us from doing this, you know, and to make us think that we're better off by ourselves, still searching, that we'll have some kind of more freedom if we don't have children. Like, I've never felt more free in my life Right. Since my kids have been here. Because I see that I have no boundaries because of them. Like, no one looks at me the way that my kids do. Mhmm. You know? And that's it's not something flowery. It's just, like, I'm important to somebody in a way that I was able to, like, lay down my life. Like, birth is laying down your life. Like, you at a certain point, you have to cross the very, like, life or death. Like, let's go. Like, you know, we're gonna live. Yeah. We're gonna live. Like, we're here now.
Speaker 2
And ideally, the the partner, whether it's the father of the of the child or not, ideally, the partner is supporting that and not in competition with and not jealous of and not, you know, so oncoming particularly in in heterodynamics, you know, where it's so common where the male is just like struggling with this, I'm not the center anymore, and I I don't get the the sex or the, you know, all of this stuff. And Yep. Whatever. I guess I'm I get I was gonna say I'm not trying to invalidate it, but actually I guess I am. Because really, you know, when we think of matriarchy, you know, it's it's that the partner, the father is supporting
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
The mother and the baby to be the most important thing because of everything you just spoke to.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Anyway, so let's keep going. So so then so tell me about how Hawaii enters and and just, like, that transition into your next pregnancy and and all that.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So in Atlanta, we we lived in this huge concrete loft in the middle of the city, like, literally no grass around us, nothing. And, you know, like, I just felt like I couldn't interact with Naomi the way that I wanted to there. And we just began exploring other options. You know, he kinda dwindled off from his job because he just wanted to be with us. You know, like, he had to drive an hour and a half to work and he just he just stopped going, honestly. And we just were just at home just just in this just full I just just so in love and so inspired. And, yeah, we we sold our things. We came to Hawaii with two hundred and fifty dollars and was just like, I don't know why we're here. And were you already pregnant? Nope. I wasn't pregnant. Okay. And Comey was about six, seven months when we transitioned here.
Speaker 2
And Yeah. What why did you choose Kauai specifically?
Speaker 1
Kauai specifically, so it's the garden island. This is the most off grid type of living, and that's what we were aiming for. We were like, let's just camp. Let's just be in the earth. You know? Needless to say, it's not really exactly the lifestyle that we want to pursue, but it was a great experience to be able to kinda brush off the matrix type living Totally. And to be able to, redefine, you know, what we're grateful for, what we need, how we use our things. Because it wasn't enough for me to be like, okay. Don't leave your faucet running. Only wash, you know, that that it that wasn't enough for me. I needed to see why I needed to appreciate water. And now it's like, those things are second nature to me because I did have that experience here.
Speaker 2
But yeah. So, Damn. So you really dove in.
Speaker 1
Yeah. We just, you know, did our best and, you know, it was hard. It's it's been a struggle. We've been here about two and a half years. It's been a struggle for two years up until just the last few months, and, I'm super blessed and thankful for the journey. But, yeah, Ayumi, started to, rather early, call me just I just Nicole, we got got here in February. I started feeling pregnant around March, and I kind of was bleeding in February. I thought it was my period, but it didn't. I bled for, like, two weeks and then just stopped.
Speaker 2
I ended up
Speaker 1
getting pregnant with her in, I guess, April, May ish. With So he was how
Speaker 2
old at that point?
Speaker 1
Nakomi was about eight eight, nine months. About the age she is now. Yeah. So they're they're eighteen months apart. Hopefully, I got that math right. Nobody called me. But, so, yeah, I just I just started feeling pregnant before I actually was because her spirit was just wanting to be here. And Interesting. It wasn't that I didn't have any intentions of having another baby so soon, but I wasn't I didn't feel it didn't feel right to, like, push away the spirit and say, like, no. Not right now. Now that's how I feel. Every once in a while, I get a little baby figure. I'm like, oh my god. I know. No. No. I'm just having a baby now. But, no. I was just so I was ready, you know. So I pregnant again and, yeah, we're going through our journey. I go back to Atlanta for a little while. Me and, my partner have some space.
Speaker 2
That's when I think you and I started chatting.
Speaker 1
Yes. Yeah. It was actually.
Speaker 2
You were in Atlanta pregnant, and your man was on Kauai figuring out work, and then you were gonna meet him pre birth.
Speaker 1
Yep. Exactly. Okay. Yep. So that happened, and it was, it was good for me to go back and kinda process some things with my family, And it was a lot of intense things. I actually got got asked to leave my parents' house when I was pregnant with my toddler just because my parents are very spiritual, very, you know, on the Christian spectrum and that lifestyle. And, you know, I'm not married. Here I am with my toddler. I'm coming back home, like, I'm pregnant again. And then, you know, I stay there for a few weeks and they ask me to leave and go to a homeless shelter and just What? Just like complete yeah. Like, so But you're
Speaker 2
you're also pregnant with your partner. It's not like Right. I mean, and even if it was a random dude, that would be fine too. Of course. Exactly. Because we're not supposed to turn our freaking kids away. Also, I just wanna pause and say it's really funny to me that you just said, on the Christian spectrum.
Speaker 1
I would laugh about that all night.
Speaker 2
Okay. So that's not great. Okay. So Yeah. So kicked out.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I get kicked out, you know, but thankfully, you know, I was able to come back here and just being able to flow back and forth, you know, was just, you know, just showing that all of this is divine, that I'm meant to be here and to birth, my second child here. And we came here and same thing. I mean, honestly, me and our story is, like, a little bit like the the Joseph and Mary type searching for an end to give birth. That's how this story kinda turns into. Yeah. Because when I come here
Speaker 2
it becomes on the Christian spectrum.
Speaker 1
Right. It becomes exactly what I'm like. Fuck that. You know? It's like, well, this is your life. Like, you're you're you're married. Your baby is Jesus. So so so, yeah, we come back. We have, like, you know, so that's another thing here on the islands in general, but especially in Kauai, it's very hard to find housing. Very hard for families to find housing. We actually had a promise of a space when I returned because I wasn't gonna return until we had a space. So I get here, and it's kinda like, you know, your thing with the job where it's like, you think something's gonna be a certain way and you get there, and it's like, no. Not at all. So, yeah, so we end up camping it for a few months. We're camping. I'm pregnant. And,
Speaker 2
And how was the pregnancy, especially with kind of maybe not the most comfortable easy accommodations?
Speaker 1
I mean, it was a very stressful pregnancy for me, because I didn't have any grounding. I was constantly wanting to nest, wanting to prepare, and I wasn't ever able to even, like, take the, you know, my hands off of me. Like, okay, let me just surrender. Like, at no point did I even have the opportunity because I just I just wanted to make a space just to Your room chakra
Speaker 2
is completely, like, fried. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1
if you
Speaker 2
don't have your core, you know, what do they call it? The five core needs met. Yep. Yeah. I mean, if you're not gonna just
Speaker 1
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. So I you know, I it hurts me in a way because I haven't talked about it, but we were homeless for Yeah. Many, many, many months searching for just for us to be able to birth. Not even that we have to birth there. You know? It was like, I can I just have a space to be, and I'll go to the hospital? You know? Like, now I know I can hone myself and do my thing, you know, but
Speaker 2
Yeah. Of course. It's not just about the birth. It's about where you're gonna freaking live, where you're gonna have a baby. Yeah. Your family. So you were just camping kinda wherever. I'm assuming you are.
Speaker 1
Well, there's there's a beach here that, you know, it has a setup where you can camp. They have showers, sinks, kinda whole night. So, you know, it's set up, but, you know, it's still camping. It's still that lifestyle. So
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So maybe I was about nine months or so, eight eight, nine months, we finally found a space. We're welcomed in. And
Speaker 2
Prenatal care wise, did you ever see anybody?
Speaker 1
I when it I was in Atlanta because I was living with my parents. It was kind of that's one of the reasons why it was good that I kinda left because of the control of my parents is very heavy on me. You know? So it was kind of if I didn't go to the hospital, it was just more another one of those things was, like, a unique leave. You know? Mhmm. Like, you're not even, like, taking care of yourself. So I did go to the hospital to get some things checked out, kinda more fear based things. Yeah. I went to ER one one night because I was just having just some pains. But, again, it was just all fear based with my mom, and she's worried. And, but no really kind of prenatal care in terms of seeing someone consistently. Mhmm. I would meet with midwives here and there who would, you know, just look at me and kind of, you know, let me know the deal. Yes. So we're welcomed in. We're there maybe, like, two weeks. And, so at this point, we're, you know, feeling a little grounded, you know, feeling a little good. And so we decide to kinda seek out a midwife that maybe can, just check me out, maybe be at the birth because, you know, at this point, we're, like, we're doing unassisted. I've been listening to your podcast, just getting so inspired by all the women who are, like you know, they don't it is not even that you don't need the help. It's just the awareness that if you don't have help, you'll be good. And that was kind of the mindset that we wanted to just move forward with her, with her birth. But we did want to seek out a midwife just just because we just had such a hard pregnancy, like, stress wise, it just felt, you know, again, like, maybe, yeah, we needed that kind of nourishment. So, well yeah. And in
Speaker 2
a perfect world, all things created equal, like, that's what midwives, that's what authentic midwifery is.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
It's not whatever the fuck you experienced with that first one. You know, authentic midwifery is is the wise woman, you know. It's it's the elders. It's the women who walk with women who know how to nourish and love and hold and and guide and guard. I mean, yes. Of course. I totally understand that.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
It's just that they're hard to find.
Speaker 1
Yep. Unfortunately. And honestly, like, the woman we found, it's was everything that you just described. Oh, that's so You know? And and yeah, so I, we find this woman. I only speak to her on the phone. She's like, yeah. You know, let's do it. I told her I don't really want you in the room. I don't want you to touch me. I don't even want you to talk me talk to me if I don't want you to. I just want you to kinda be available Mhmm. In case I need your support. Because she was down. She was like, cool. Yeah. Like, that's my thing anyways. Nice. Man. And I just I just love the swimming. But yeah. So, my water breaks. So my water breaks. I like cleaning crazy the night before. My water breaks. I wake up and I'm like, oh, like, you know, like, here it is. It's time. So, he goes back to sleep. And I'm kind of up all night just dancing with the moon, kinda just feeling it. No pain, but something's brewing. You know, I I'm feeling my hormone shift. I'm just feeling the change, and I'm just, like, so, like, ready. Like, I can, like, attest it to, like like, a warrior about to go into battle just, like, knowing, like, you're about to, like you're just about to win. Like, you already done this battle before. So it's like, come on. Like, bring it on. You know? Like, I was ready. So the next morning, Antoine gets up and goes and tells the woman who we're staying with on her property that I'm in labor. And crazy, her dad dies that morning, and she asks us to leave. She asked us to pack our things and leave. And she said that if we weren't gone within four hours, that she's gonna check to make sure we were gone. So I don't even know why these things are happening. Like I said, this is, like, Joseph and Mary, like, literally. So we I'm crying. We're packing up our things. I'm like Who does that? I don't know, bro. And I don't know what, like, the karma these people are attracting, but, like, this is the experience, like, obviously, when we're supposed to be there, you know, and we had to I'm feeling
Speaker 2
so bad imagining. I'm imagining your man, like, having to come tell you that.
Speaker 1
I know. That's so gross. He kinda had this smile on his face because it was just so crazy. Right. He's like, you're not gonna fucking believe this. So It's
Speaker 2
such a bad news here. Oh my god.
Speaker 1
I know you're about to go into labor and all, but
Speaker 2
Oh my god.
Speaker 1
We gotta go.
Speaker 2
Somewhere like Okay.
Speaker 1
So where
Speaker 2
do you go?
Speaker 1
Yeah. We're packing up our shit, and we call our doula. We're like, yo, like, this woman we met here, she's gonna, you know, be with us and dance with us during labor. And we call her, and we get another woman's voice. And we're like, oh, where's where's our doula? Our doula fell down the stairs and, like, twists her ankle. And so we're like, okay. Like, obviously, the story is, like, we're planning on having this kind of support, but Ayumi is like, no. I don't need to be in this space. I don't need her here. So we're like, okay. So we, there's a woman on island. Her name is Carol, beautiful woman who opens up her home to women who are birthing, and she allows people to give birth at her house. So
Speaker 2
You just you just happen to
Speaker 1
know about her? We happen to know about her. And we were actually planning on doing that if we weren't able to birth at our space. Right.
Speaker 2
So it just Nice.
Speaker 1
You know, flowed right into that. You know? So we call up Carol. We're like, so we actually need a birth over there. And she's like, cool. But you need your midwife here.
Speaker 2
Alright. I remember you texting me this.
Speaker 1
So, of course, my midwife is on another island. She is on Oahu. But But my midwife wasn't there. She was she was on a plane in the air, you know, on her way to me when I, you know, told her my water was breaking. So Oh my god. So basically, it was just kind of this waiting game. My labor, nothing started. And, we go to Carol's house. We're, you know, preparing. I'm eating some food, taking a walk. Just really like, you know what? Naomi's story was crazy as hell. Bring it on. Like, I'm still going to give birth. Like Exactly. It doesn't, like, it's you know, nothing is phasing me. And, so I'm laying on the bed. My midwife finally gets there. She walks in the room, and I'm just she can just see the heaviness of me. It's just like and she I give her a hug. This is my first time meeting this woman, and it felt like, you know, just the grandmother energy, everything that we needed. And she was there, and she just pulled me into arms. She was like, let's get to it. Get into this position, and that's gonna bring your contractions. And, you know, my first instinct because I was pressured so much before was to be like, you know, I wanna do what I wanna do. You know, like, I don't but nothing was starting, you know. So I actually I it was just a squatting position to hold to, like, bearing down, and I did that and contractions started.
Speaker 2
But it was plus you were, like, allowed to start your labor.
Speaker 1
Exactly. You
Speaker 2
know, in this IT.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so, you know, she already knew my wishes. So I'm laboring by myself. Like, this woman literally was in the kitchen talking with Carol, having tea, you know, preparing things for after the birth, and she left me alone. You know, I went into the bathroom and I labored in there probably, like, two, three hours. Anton would come in every once in a while telling me I was doing a great job and he was supporting, you know, doing that whole thing, the whole dance, and it was only four hours that I was in active labor. Yeah. I was, like, in there and out of there.
Speaker 2
Did Carol and this midwife previously had they known each other?
Speaker 1
Yes. They're aware of each other. Yep. Okay. Yeah. So they had a yeah. And I I remember when I was transitioning in and, I remember I was I started crying, and I was like, I can't. I'm tired. I'm gonna go to sleep. And my midwife, she's like, well, that means the baby's about to come. You know, just as, you know, matter of fact, but it was like just confirmation. It wasn't like, oh, let me help you when you saw it. She didn't like she was like, no. You know? That's cool. You know? I'm glad you feel like you're about to give up because that anxiety is about to come. Yeah. I just slammed my fist on the table, and I was like, fuck. Go back into it. And One
Speaker 2
last little tantrum.
Speaker 1
One last little tantrum, and, Antoine's playing the didgeridoo. And, man, just it was just such a tribal, just high energy, very musical, and I just felt I just felt so powerful. She's at a certain point, I was, like, panting like a panther. Like, she just my breathing was just in tune. I just you know, it was just, like, this cool, like, dance. It was just it was cool. Like, and I I don't I don't remember pain from her birth. I just remember hard work.
Speaker 2
Well, you got to be. Yeah. You got to dance. You got to do the birth dance. It is very Yep.
Speaker 1
Comfortable. It is
Speaker 2
very, it's wild as fuck. But if Yes. If there's people observing you in a way where you're feeling self conscious or if there's worry or those furrowed brows or people obsessing, you don't get to do it.
Speaker 1
Yep. Yeah. Awesome.
Speaker 2
And how was your son during it? Was he awake?
Speaker 1
He was kind of dancing in and out. He went to sleep once I was really into it. Mhmm. And he actually as soon as Ayumi came into this sphere, as soon as she was born, Komi woke up.
Speaker 2
Nice.
Speaker 1
And it was kind of a little kind of I don't wanna say traumatic, but it was a little scary for him because he was in another room by himself asleep. So he kinda woke up
Speaker 2
To a low.
Speaker 1
With all that energy. Yeah. Nobody was in there with him. Yeah. So we brought him in here, and he was crying. Yeah. So but he was cool. The next morning, they made me a placenta smoothie, and he drank all of it. And he's been super baby ever since. I'm like, this is where my son is like You're like, I'm on to something.
Speaker 2
Bam bam now. That's funny.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's like That's funny. That's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 2
So he's he's even more intrinsically connected to her from eating
Speaker 1
Yes. Drinking that. I couldn't even sip it. I'm like
Speaker 2
he's like, I will. Right.
Speaker 1
That's funny.
Speaker 2
And so and okay. So but I wanna go back, sorry, just bit to real quick about, like her actual emergence. You know, tell tell me about that. What did that look like, feel like? Her actually coming out of your body in the placenta and taking you back there?
Speaker 1
So, a good friend of mine, was there, Lita. She, was just holding space. She was, you know, she just came to bring me coconut water and asked if she needed I needed anything else, and she ended up being our like, just being there, holding space for us. So, I was holding onto Antoine in a crouch position just on my weight holding onto his neck, and I was on the bed, crouched down, just pulling, bearing down. I just it feels really good to me to kind of just ground into birth. I don't like water. I can't do none of that shit when I'm birthing. Like, I have to, like, stomp and shit. So, and she was right next to my ear, and it was at a I'm, you know, pushing. Just the struggle of that push, just the powerful, you know, entrance that's about to be, and she whispers in my ear. Jordan, I call, you know, on your what did she say? Man, on your, avatar, your avatar self. I call I've been speaking to your avatar self, like, wake up, you know, kinda thing. And it just I remember it was like this, you know, just this animalistic, like, perk. That's cool. And then I was able to, like, fully just bring her through. And Wow. I birthed and she kinda she birthed into, like like she was, like, in this ball. She the cords were wrapped all around her. Like, it was interesting. She was like a little Rubik's cube. And at first, it was like we were all like, okay.
Speaker 2
And did she just plop out onto the bed?
Speaker 1
Yeah. She just plopped out on the bed, and they just you know, the midwife looked you know, we all, you know, took her in for a moment, and then she's like, okay. Let's take the cords off. She gently unwound her, and she kinda gave a little squeak, immediately started nursing, and I would sleep. Perfect. Oh. Sleep after birth is like, oh my gosh. Mhmm. It is.
Speaker 2
So how did you feel in the coming days and weeks?
Speaker 1
Man, grateful. You know, it's something about not having the things that you think that you need and being able to survive without it that's just brings on that gratitude and that compassion for everyone else who is able to birth with the way that you think that you're supposed to birth and just how you know, sometimes those things, it's good to just have inspiration from it and not you don't always have to mimic those things. I found myself in preparing with both of their births. Sometimes just getting in that, oh, well, so and so did this. Like, so and so did that. Like, you know, I feel like a lot of women kind of the water birth thing is kinda like this kinda, you know, like the popular thing to do. Mhmm. But it's like, it doesn't always help. Like, I like to tell mothers, like, just be open to explore other things. Like, be open to not rely on what you have planned.
Speaker 2
Totally. I mean, one thing and that's true in life. Right? Like, it's one thing to say, I am attracted to the idea of water birth, and so I I could see myself wanting that as a tool, but that's not what I hear most women say. You know, most women say, I'm going to have a water birth. And I'm like, oh, you have no idea what you're going to.
Speaker 1
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker 2
You know, and and it's just if you have just another plan, like, you know, there's there's Yeah. Exactly like you're saying. There's a there's a deeper layer under there to play with.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. It is. You know? And it's cool if everything works out the way you planned it. That's cool. Totally. But just know that it usually doesn't play out like that, and that's okay.
Speaker 2
And so how and we'll wrap up here, but how does it feel in your body and and just I wanna I wanna go back to kind of where we started the conversation about, just this transformation you've made as a woman through or because of motherhood, you know, kind of bring that back home for me if you
Speaker 1
can. I mean, I I really have found my my own feminine aspect that I've really been, like, pushing down since childhood, since I can remember. I just never wanted to be a woman in this sense that I I felt like at a certain point, all of my girlness, all of the things that I treasured was gonna not be important when I became a mother. Mother. That's what I grew up thinking, like, that I was just gonna lose all of this. And I it's, you know, that same holding on type thing. I was holding on to this this maidenhood. Like, it was the only thing that I was gonna have before I was gonna fall into the trap of motherhood and, like, I'm so glad I fell for the trap, man, because it's like, you know, like, it is it's important to know that you are worth it. You are you you can do it. Like, you're good enough to be someone's mother to create and to do what you can do on this earth. Like, we it's just it's something that it's just the interesting programming that they Mhmm. Push us away from having this experience, like, that you're you know? It's just you know? And I'm just so, like even, you know, without my within my pregnancy, I I even dressed, like, girlier, and I never even, you know, experienced that before. I never wanted to be, like, girly or feminine. And having a girl now is, like, man, like, I just wanna I I can't wait till I get and not and not just the girly things. It's just being able to be this girl, this childlike mentality, this just this delicate, perfect queen that my daughter is. Like
Speaker 2
Well, it really sounds like you've created and had to do so so consciously because this is not the culture we're born into, that you've created a life where you can feel safe. And in that safety, femininity becomes authentic and and safe. And you can, you don't have to, like, fight, you know, or or, Yeah. But it just it sounds like you've really consciously chosen and created a life for yourself where you can feel safe and where you can root into, into this transformation that was calling you. And and that's, you know, that's really calling all women, not necessarily motherhood. I don't think all women need to be mothers by any means. But the safety that happens, when you create, you know, a conscious life and when you're in an awesome partnership and when you live in community, that aren't, you know, kicking you out or
Speaker 1
or Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know, all I mean, just so much that you've left behind and recreated, it makes total sense to me that you would not only have this transformation, but be exploring your femininity and be Yes. Embracing these pieces that otherwise, like, in mainstream culture is actually not fucking safe to do. No. It's not. You know? That's awesome.
Speaker 1
It's a
Speaker 2
lot of, like, desocialization and recreation itself. And
Speaker 1
That's why I said motherhood just brought on this whole spiritual aspect that I didn't even know was a part of me. Because, you know, I am growing up with the the Christian aspect, the whole, all of that. You know, I was trying to, like, throw all that in it. You know? And throwing away some things. Some things you don't need to throw away. Some things you need to keep. And, you know, I've I've been refining that appreciation for those deeper meanings in life as well through through motherhood and just my everyday and being here with my kids and being in the moment and Mhmm. Not wanting, not needing, and just having my arms open to be grateful and to receive whatever journey is about to to to happen for us because we're here now. You know, we all chose to be here together, and, man, I'm just so blessed. I'm so thankful. Like, it's it's inspiring. It's
Speaker 2
Yeah. You got a rocking little family.
Speaker 1
Man.
Speaker 2
And you're doing
Speaker 1
it. You're doing it
Speaker 2
real as fuck too. You know? It's not all rainbows and butterflies, but it's with the gratitude filled heart. That's what's up.
Speaker 1
Yep. Awesome. Yes.
Speaker 2
Well, thank you. It's so nice to finally Yes. Story over I'm excited. Over ten months in the making.
Speaker 1
Yes. Lots of times to really, like, let these stories set in and Mhmm. Transform. And, yeah, I hope that I can inspire, and I I don't want anybody to mimic my story. I think they need to have this kinda experience, you know. I'm just remembering when they listen to these podcasts that, you know, there's always things to to take, but there's always things to give as well within these stories. Because man, the magic happens no matter what what what's gonna happen. All births are, like, it's just infinitely so magical. We can't even we can't even control it, like Well,
Speaker 2
and I I think a huge thing that that I hope women will, you know, take from this story is the, you know, just speaking to the differences of midwifery, you know, that that I mean, talk about, like, light and dark, you know, talk talk about good and bad and and all of that, that it's it's awesome that you got to experience authentic midwifery
Speaker 1
Yes.
Speaker 2
You know, with your second birth and then be able to share that story because we have lost it, you know, almost entirely as a as a womanhood on this planet. You know? So it's it's huge to celebrate those stories and share them.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And I just wanna say, like, I you know, I did at some point want to refuse any kind of assistance or support during my birth because the experience that I had, but I wanna say that it it is valuable to have sacred women at your birth. Like, that's important. That's you know? Like but it's it is that. It's these these certain, you know, type of characteristics and needs that both the midwives and the birthing mothers need to know that, you know, they can't rely on each other for anything. It's just all support. It's all this grand dance that everybody gets to have a part in.
Speaker 2
Well, there's a massive difference between medical management and acting as your authority Yeah. Versus authentic midwifery, which is experience, love, support, wisdom, all the stuff that we we listed. Like, those Yep. And we've completely not we, you know, patriarchy and and industrialized birth has completely, warped all of that. And so, you know, I know a lot of midwives, you know, listen to this to this podcast, so
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
I I think your story was very inspiring to them. So, yeah. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you.
Speaker 1
And it's
Speaker 2
so nice to finally see you and hear you and Yeah. I'm proud of us.
Speaker 1
Yes. We did it.
Speaker 2
We did it. Alright. Go for it. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1
Okay. Bless you.
Speaker 2
Bye. That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
