Fifth Time's A Charm: Andrea's Story

Season #9 December 14, 2018

Today’s episode is with Andrea, from Go Diaper Free. But this show isn’t about Elimination Communication - it’s about Andrea, and her journey to freebirth. Her first birth was sabotaged by her midwives, sending her into postpartum depression. She then moved to a state where midwifery was illegal, so with her second she began compassing towards doing it at home on her own. Andrea is brutally honest about her own journey of facing her fears and how much work there was to do within herself to finally freebirth her fifth baby in her full power.

Disclaimer: Free Birth Society, LLC of North Carolina shares personal and educational stories and experiences related to freebirth and holistic care. This content is not medical advice, and we are not a licensed midwifery practice. Testimonials reflect individual experiences; results may vary. For services or scheduling, contact [email protected]. See full disclaimer at freebirthsociety.com/youtubeterms

Episode Transcript

Speaker 0

Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily Saldea.

Speaker 1

Hey, everyone. Quick announcement here. In honor of all of the free birth babies that have been born in our new membership this past month, we are giving our complete guide to free birth online course away at half price through the end of the year. If you've been curious about our take on radical childbirth education, go check it out at free birth society dot com. Today's episode is with Andrea from Go Diaper Free. But this show isn't about elimination communication. It's about Andrea and her journey to free birth. Her first birth was sabotaged by her midwives in California, sending her into postpartum depression. She then moved to a state where midwifery was illegal. And so with her second, she began compassing towards doing it at home on her own. Andrea is brutally honest about her own journey of facing her fears and how much work there was to do within herself to finally free birth her fifth baby in full power.

Speaker 2

So my journey to motherhood really started when I became pregnant with my first child, which was, I guess, nine ish years ago because he's eight now, eight and a half. I had never like most women, I never had experience with seeing birth, being around birth. I I babysat newborns in my neighborhood, but never really put the, I I never I never had any kind of consciousness about any type of birth. So when I became pregnant, it was a surprise. I'd only known the guy for four months, and we were about to break up. And it was kind of a shocker. No. Yeah. Like, is

Speaker 1

it is it your husband?

Speaker 2

No. Okay. Okay. Oh, no. This is my ex. And so it was an interesting, I was sick as a dog for, like, the whole nine months. I had food aversion and couldn't throw up, but, like, was nauseous twenty four seven for nine months. Oh. I think a lot of it was emotional because our relationship was so terrible. Totally. Yeah. It was it was really hard. And then, we planned a home birth. So I knew I wanted to do elimination communication when the baby was born. So I knew a couple things. I knew that I wanted to do natural parenting, breastfeeding, co sleeping, baby wearing, you know, all the things that I'd seen my friends do with their babies. I just hadn't really been around birth. So, I took the what is the class? Birthing from within. I took that class with a really good friend. So you had friends

Speaker 1

who were already having babies?

Speaker 2

Yeah. But not very many. We all kind of got pregnant at the same time. One of the others, actually, we conceived the same day. So it was like this new thing for all of us. And we were all in California and all going to festivals all the time. I just was dancing all the time. I had just led a Burning Man camp of, like, three hundred people after going for five years. I was in that sort of gypsy

Speaker 1

state. Too. Maybe we would have crossed paths. I bet

Speaker 2

we know I

Speaker 1

bet we know a lot of the same people.

Speaker 2

We probably do.

Speaker 1

What was your Burning Man camp called?

Speaker 2

Excuse me. Anthon Village. Oh, I know. Who doesn't know them? I know. Right? So I I led them in the best year that we had. And then I it was two thousand nine evolution.

Speaker 1

Uh-huh.

Speaker 2

And then, in two thousand ten, I had my baby. So I got pregnant, like, a couple months after that burning them was over. And I just turned, thirty one. So I was entering into the adult realm. You know? And it really stopped me in my tracks. I was miserable. I hated everything, and I had a miserable pregnancy. And then when, so was the birth. The birth part of it, I had a midwife that I hired to do a home birth in Berkeley. I lived four blocks away from Alta Bates, which is has the biggest NICU in America. And on every single walk I went on, I met a new mom who had a terrible c section birth story. And I was just like, seriously, I am not going through that. I'm gonna do everything I can to prevent that from happening. So I saw The Business of Being Born, Ricky Lake's movie, which I love, and I definitely made the decision early on to have a midwife home birth, and that was what I was gonna do. The summation of it was my friend had, like, a double c section, meconium, and then they'd open her back up. She had infections. And she was really

Speaker 1

a double c section? They had to

Speaker 2

cut her open a second a second time because she was infected from the original leconium issue that her baby was affected by. They had to cut her open twice. So after hearing this, I was eleven days past my date, and I was freaking out. So I asked my midwives what I could do, and she said to drink castor oil. Instead of telling me to drink one ounce like you're supposed to, she told me to drink four ounces, and I went into the bed. It was terrible. Yeah. I had a contraction every minute for seventeen hours. I pushed for four hours. She had me get on my back in bed as if I was in a hospital with my knees up. Mhmm. And during that process, I was terrified. It was so painful. The whole birth experience was just I felt out of control. Yeah. And I felt like I didn't have a say so or permission to follow my own instincts. They were telling me, get in this position. Do this. Do that. There were two apprentices and one main midwife.

Speaker 1

It was Like, what you think it's gonna be, and then

Speaker 2

it's that. It was so disappointing. And, you know, I really love the people who attended with me, and I've I've talked about the bursary with him before and processed it. But, honestly, it was not a fulfilling birth. I needed a do over. It was very unfulfilling. He came out, and I saw him, drew my legs, and he was blue. And he wasn't breathing, and they had to give him oxygen, and it didn't work. So then they had to give him mouth to mouth, and I was flipping the out because I was like, woah. What was I do what I thought.

Speaker 1

I do wanna say though that blue is an oxygenated baby.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Well, they freaked out. Right.

Speaker 1

So, like, what you don't wanna see is gray, you know, blue, but blue is means that's an oxygenated baby. They didn't It's scary looking. It's actually a totally normal healthy baby, just for anyone listening.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Well, that would have been nice for me to have known. So, literally, I was clueless about all of this stuff. Yeah. I I mean, I was not prepared at all. And then it was overmanaged, and it was just, like, it was it was overmanaged. That's what it was. It was an overmanaged home birth. So that was my first one. And he was fine and everything, and we nursed fine, and everything was great. My relationship sucked. I actually had undiagnosed postpartum depression through the next baby to when she was six weeks old. So the whole postpartum for me was really hard. And then, you know, I became really angry and and reactive. And I think

Speaker 1

and maybe Yeah. Your story is such a good example of of, you know, just to go there for a second about postpartum depression. Like, of course, you did. Of course, you had it. You know, it's not I think that it gets painted or or portrayed or talked about in our culture as this thing that you just, like, get. Like, you catch it like a cold. And it's like, no. It it means depression in the postpartum time, and it's not random. It is not this, yeah, like catching it like a cold, you know. This is you you were and so many women were a primo candidate to feel, all you know, to feel isolated, to feel angry, to feel disconnected, to feel all of the things that come hopeless, you know, all of the things that come with feeling depressed.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

With an abusive, you know, home birth that was nothing what you agreed, you know, or envisioned, a a shitty relationship. I mean, and then you have to figure out how to be a mom. It's so it's so upsetting.

Speaker 2

And the whole time, I was told by my ex I'm even afraid to talk about it now. It's weird. But I was told that he you know, that I wasn't a good mom, that I was an angry person, and that, he was gonna take him every week. And so I I didn't have anybody in my circles who really everybody was still gypsy, so I didn't really have anybody to ground in with and talk to. I saw a therapist, and I I did movement therapy with her, and I just laid on the ground. And she said, well, you seem depressed. But nobody suggested postpartum depression. And I really want everybody to know, like, or listening. If if you're feeling edgy and you're feeling like you're not yourself, you probably aren't, and it might be PPD. And it would be worth looking into. So with that, you know, the birth wasn't very satisfying. It was terrifying. I was terrified. So, you know, with my second birth, I wanted to do an unassisted birth.

Speaker 1

So dad?

Speaker 2

No. So I had gotten married, and, we conceived after we got engaged.

Speaker 1

So we kicked the guy to the curb first.

Speaker 2

We kicked kicked him out. He was, two years old. My son was two Okay. When I met my husband. Yeah. And we got married really fast, and we conceived really fast because I'm five years older than him. So I wanted to get a get a get a get a head start. We got married when I was, six months pregnant, and he adores pregnancy. He adores me, and it was a really wonderful pregnancy, except I was being sued for custody and then sued for my business. And that's all I'm allowed to say about that. God forbid. And so I I was going through so much emotionally and still had PPD and didn't know it. Really hard period. So my pregnancy, I did a lot of unassisted, just I did self care. I measured myself. I, you know, I did my own prenatal stuff for the most part. I went into a clinic a couple of times. I told them that I wanted to have an unassisted birth at home, and they actually said, okay. Well, get your care here, and then good luck and do that. So it was it was okay, and it was I didn't really go the last few weeks. And then I went into labor with my second, who's my daughter. She's five now. And I wanted to do an unassisted birth, and I had taken, Wapio's course at the Matrona holistic doula course because she wasn't teaching unassisted birth. She does teach that, but I needed information. I couldn't find it anywhere. So, I interviewed her after taking her course too. We became friends, and I asked her all these questions that I had. And then I get into the labor part. I called one friend who was a mutual friend of my ex and I, and she didn't answer. And that was the last time I ever tried to call her. So there was a lot of betrayal in my life at the time. There was a lot of really not there's a lot of transition and a lot of feeling completely isolated. And I just moved to Asheville, by the way, so I don't really have a lot of friends. And I didn't midwifery is illegal here. You know, you can't be a home birth midwife here. So I didn't really feel like I had any options. So Oh, so Right.

Speaker 1

Okay. That's what I was gonna ask you. Why why unassisted and not okay. Got it. So you move in this time to North Carolina. Midwifery is off the table. You obviously don't wanna go to a hospital, and so what do you do?

Speaker 2

And there was no birth center except for in South Carolina, and I didn't wanna have to drive down there. And, yeah, I didn't really feel like I had any choices, but I definitely did not want a hospital birth. So I studied up on unassisted as best I could, and I got mentally prepared. The labor itself, I was four hours in, and I felt a very large bulge in my area. And I was in the hall. I remember being there, and I could have probably just stuck my fingers in there and felt her. She was that close. And I freaked out because I think I was in transition and not sure, And nobody answered the phone when I tried to call that supposed friend, and I didn't know what to do. So I went to the hospital and said to my husband, take me to the hospital, which now he's learned that that doesn't mean take me to the hospital. Now he's learned that this is a hard part. You know?

Speaker 1

And so it it freaked you out because what? I mean, you obviously knew you were gonna have a baby. So what part about it what where did that come from?

Speaker 2

I didn't have the feeling of needing to push or wanting to push. I didn't have the urge to push. So I thought in my logical brain, something must be wrong. I need help because I don't feel the urge to push, and I don't know what to do, and this is getting really intense. And I didn't really I I didn't feel like I could I could do it. So then I went to the hospital, and we only lived eight minutes away. So we get there, and I'm having a contraction in the hallway, in between the doors, going in, and I'm, like, screaming. And everybody's looking at me like I'm crazy. Like, they've never seen somebody that deep into labor because the the car ride there, I was lifted up because I couldn't sit. And I know that that probably put her into the perfect position because within thirty minutes of being there, I had her. By the time I could get the words out, don't cut the cord yet, they'd already cut it. Even though they're supposed to be mommy friendly hospital, they're not. And, they put her on me, and she peed all over me, which is hilarious because I teach elimination communication. And so the fact that she peed on me within seconds of being bored was awesome. It's like being anointed. Yeah. Totally. And then they tried to force my placenta out. Oh, yeah. And I about kicked her in the face. I said, leave me the f alone. Don't touch it. I have at least an hour. I'm gonna sit here and let it come out on its own, and she refused. So I really bled a lot, which I think cutting the cord early caused a little bit of hemorrhaging. And they gave me a shot of pitocin in my hip to stop the bleeding. Oh, which by the way, the home birth midwives gave me a shot of Pitocin in in the hip. Oh, yeah. The baby was born. Funny enough. Totally medicalized situation. But, you know, with the birth of my second one, I was on my back with my knees being held up exactly like the home birth, and I was like, this is messed up. This is not what I wanted. Yeah. But they told me when I walked in, they're like, oh, you're fully dilated. You can push, and they coached me through it. And there was this British nurse, and I loved her voice, and her coaching me through it just felt like what I needed, but what I needed to come from inside me. And I didn't have that voice yet. So that was my second birth. My third, planned unassisted. I don't even think I got any care, any prenatal care. I can't quite remember. But with my third, I did ask my friend who's trained in midwifery, and she actually assisted Wapio for a long time teaching her classes. I asked her to come just to be there maybe on call so I could, like, throw out a question or two, but not to attend in any way. Like, I'm not hiring you. You're my friend. Just come over and be with me. If I if I want to ask a question this time, I won't have to go to the hospital. I could just ask you. So about fifteen, twenty minutes into rhythmic labor, which both of them are right in the morning, All three of them. All my labors have been early in the morning. My husband, I told him to call her, and he called her over. And so she was there for about an hour. And within that hour, I had so it's seventy five minutes total labor with him. And I yelled out two questions the whole time. Number one was, am I okay? And number two was, is he stuck? Because I had pushed his head out in my bathtub, and I wanna make sure he wasn't stuck before I gave the heave ho to push his body out. Now the cool thing with Cooper's birth is that I reached my hands in there, and I wasn't afraid. I actually burst my bag of waters into my hand, and I looked down, and I saw this. I thought I had popped his head. It was the stupidest thought that ran through my head, but I was like, oh my god. I think I just popped something, and I thought it was I didn't know what I was holding in my hand, but it was like a big piece of the bags. And I was in this crappy pink bathtub that was barely deep enough to pour a bath in, or old house, this rental. And I I remember falling asleep, and then I remember the contractions coming for pushing him down the birth control canal. And I I I had studied up again even more in between the two births. I'd started writing, my book on unassisted birth, so that sort of came into the picture there. I'd started writing it because I was like, okay. I'm gonna figure this out, and I'm gonna have this baby unassisted. I'm gonna figure out what it was that I didn't have before that I know I can do this birth by myself. I know I know I don't need to go to the hospital. So I had a lot more information. I found out that I don't need to have the urge to push, that it's okay, that sometimes the baby can just wriggle their way out, and it's okay. So I, I read a lot of Grantley Dick Reed's book while pregnant with Cooper, Birth Without Fear. And it has a really weird he has a really weird way of speaking because he's, like, what, from the thirties or the was it the thirties? Yeah. And he's a male, and he's you know, there's a way of speaking back then that you have to decode it. So I decoded it, and I got I understood the fear, tension, pain cycle that we can get into. So I was very aware of that. I felt him coming down the birth canal, and I was in a rush. I wanted to meet him. I wanted to not be having contractions anymore. I pushed that kid out so fast and that he had a purple bruise on his face, like his nose and his upper lip and his chin were

Speaker 1

Ninety minute labor, you said? Seventy five minute? Of course.

Speaker 2

Seventy five minutes. He was bruised. So I I got him I I felt him coming down the birth canal, and then I felt him, And then I got his head out, and I barely remember that to this day. But then I stood up, and I said, is he stuck? And I hear my friend whisper from the hallway, no.

Speaker 1

So cute.

Speaker 2

And then I I said, honey catch, and I was standing up, and I went wonder woman, and I went And he caught him, and he almost dropped him in the tub because he was like, the cord is a little short, and he caught him there. I got out of the tub, and I laid him on the ground on the towels. And then I just sat there and collected myself, and I knew that this was part of it and it was okay. And I picked him up. We went to my bed. We checked him out. My my neighbor was a NICU nurse, and he came over and took his vitals for us just to check him out because we told him. We wanted him to feel involved because he was worried. And we were worried about the purple bruise, so we called my pediatrician, and he said it sounds like a bruise. He's probably breathing fine. But if you're concerned, bring him in. So we brought him to the pediatrician, checked him out, did his blood oxygenation just to make sure that's not what it was, and he was fine. So we brought him home. Oh, he suggested we circumcise him. I was like, f you. No. Why would I do that? I just gave birth by myself without a hospital. Why would I

Speaker 1

wanna Classic dude. Okay. Classic. You're concerned about your baby? Well, let's just mutilate him real quick.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Without anesthetizing him and yeah. Gross. Right? And he goes, well, it can prevent, STDs in the future. And I'm like, you know what can prevent STDs? Talking to my son about sex. How about that? Yeah. It was terrible. So that was okay. We we we made it through. That was number three. So that one was unassisted, but I did have somebody in the room. So I felt like, well, maybe that wasn't fully unassisted, but I don't care because it was great because I did it myself. It was very powerful. It felt so good to have him to have my husband catch him, which I didn't know I was gonna do, to just take a spontaneous Wonder Woman position and pop him out was awesome and empowering. And everybody I told that story to was like, you're crazy, but I I knew that it was the right thing. You know?

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Fourth baby I wanted to have unassisted. This is so funny. I have a bathtub, that I ordered on Amazon because we remodeled this house that we moved into two years ago. And, the plumber was a big doofus who couldn't get it installed correctly. And three days, four days after he started, I finally had to say, look. You need to leave. Just forget the toilet. Forget the sink. You've got the bathtub, and you need to get out of my house. The very next morning, I went into labor. So I was like, it was Valentine's Day, and I kicked him out. I had my baby on the fifteenth. So with this one, we sent the kids to preschool. My husband dropped them off. I wanted this to be unassisted. I didn't even have backup insurance. Like, I was completely screw the whole system. I don't wanna do this. And, again, can't get a midwife, so what am I gonna do? And, also, wasn't really close friends with the woman who came over before because she was just not really showing up as a friend. So, again, I felt this sort of loneliness and isolation. So we wanted to have him alone, and we tried. I was very concerned about picking up the kids from preschool, so I I thought this would be an hour of birth just like the last one. I thought it would be the same. I mean, silly me, thinking that it would just be so easy like the last one. Mhmm. I reached inside, and I felt like something was in the way. So I felt my bag of waters, and I felt like there was something in the way. And my husband suggested something. He said, last time when you pushed, it felt better, and it felt less painful. So what if you push? And he suggested that I push. So I pushed against it knowing that that wasn't the right thing to do. But, you know, I was under the influence, and he he was very you know, I I I just tried it against what I really felt like, but but I know he was trying to help, so I don't want him to sound like Of course. Do here. But of course.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, it makes and if, like, if you don't know anything about birth, like, if you're just like a dude who's seen a birth, that totally makes sense to me that that that would be the suggestion. Yeah.

Speaker 2

And he had seen Even though birth seems

Speaker 1

anyone listening, don't

Speaker 2

make that suggestion. Don't do it. Oh my god. I kick myself. So there's always a regret, you know, with all the births except for this last one, which you'll love. But, my regret here was that I didn't just take a different position or have some patience because it had already been, like, four hours, and my mom was late picking up the kids. I mean, it

Speaker 1

was Right. Your head's just, like, all over.

Speaker 2

I couldn't get into that space. You know?

Speaker 1

So against your your better knowing and what happens?

Speaker 2

Because I know I wasn't fully dilated, and I started to get inflamed. So then I reach in, and what was blocking it was inflamed, which I guess was my cervix not being fully dilated. It was probably at nine centimeters. I could feel nine and a half maybe. So

Speaker 1

could just feel it get swollen?

Speaker 2

It got swollen, and I felt like I kept scratching at my bag of waters, and I didn't know why I was scratching at it. But I know now that I really wanted to pop the bag because it was in the way. Yeah. But I didn't know how. And we didn't look it up, and I said, take me to the hospital. Something's wrong. Something's in the way. Huge regret because I didn't have backup insurance. They sent me a bill. Oh my gosh. We got there, and we're like, how much is this gonna cost? And they wouldn't tell us. So they made us sign the paperwork anyway. Again, oh, by the way, when I had my hospital birth, I made them let us leave within twelve hours. Send the pediatrician over. I'm fine. Check out the baby. We're leaving. I'm not staying here. I'm not sick. And it was like breaking out of jail. They said, you can leave. You do have the freedom to leave, but we'll call CPS.

Speaker 1

Right. Some fucking freedom. Really? Right? Yeah.

Speaker 2

This time

Speaker 1

woke up.

Speaker 2

This time, same thing. We get to the hospital. They pop my bag of waters. I immediately fully dilate to ten, they say, and then they start counting the pushes, counting the pushes, which just messes up your body. And I did it, you know, and I push push push push push so hard. Thirty minutes on my back with my knees in. I wanted to get into all fours, and they're like, no. That's not a good position. You're making better progress on your back. And I was so mad at them. I wanted to kick him in the face again. Same thing with the placenta. I mean, he was born. He was fine. He was but they waited to cut the cord. I yelled it out during the pushes. I said, don't cut the cord until I say. You know? I was like, don't let this happen again. The last one in the hospital did give me my placenta to take home, so that was cool. We planted all the placentas under these trees in our yard, and we still we have one in the freezer now. But this one, it was, like, it was a little bit better, but thirty minutes, I had the baby. Twelve hours later, I was like, you need to let us out. And the pediatrician wouldn't come. He agreed to let us go by the phone, but he said if your baby dies within the next few days, it is not my fault. And I was just like, you jerk. You really? And then, again, they said, you can leave, but we'll call CPS. They put an alarm on the baby's ankle. Mhmm. And I was like, this sucks. We're fine. So the bill we got smacked with was nine thousand dollars. And I was like, wait. But we asked how much it would be. We told them not to give me ibuprofen because it'd be thirty dollars. They cut back as much as they could. They had us leave before twelve hours. We thought that that would be cheap. Right? We were there for thirty minutes of active labor. What's the deal? Nine thousand bucks.

Speaker 1

Got it. Just it's so interesting that you already knew what a shitty place this was, but with no other, you know, with no other place to put your, your your nervousness, you know, because of lack of midwives, because of lack of, you know, sisters, because of any of the wonderful things that would have been great to have. Yeah. You know, so I'm I'm not saying this as a critique to your decision at all, but more more of a a critique, obviously, of our culture that

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

It's so interesting because I I obviously talk to women about this stuff all the time. And so many women, already have an understanding that the hospital is just an absolute torturous shit show of a place to go. And yet, in that moment of fear, in that moment of unknowing, myself included, like you and and so many women in these moments of doubt without having these wise women to walk with, it doesn't matter if it's your first, second, third, fourth, you know. These moments of doubt are actually a really deeply spiritual part of walking in the fire of labor and birth and, you know, bringing our babies here and and yet with with with no one to hold that space with us, sometimes, you know, that knee jerk response, where else are we gonna go? We're gonna go to the place that we know is gonna fuck with us. You know, it's just so interesting. It's such a

Speaker 2

It's funny that you say that. So I had this whole mental trip during my fifth birth recently, a couple weeks ago, that was very brief, but but speaks exactly to what you're saying. It speaks exactly to what you're saying because it crossed my mind again. But this time, I handled it differently, and it's it's so good. It's good to know that okay. Alright. Maybe somebody else could learn from what I'm sharing. When I say I'm freaking out, I need to go to the hospital, you say, actually, you're doing it. We're great. Everybody's taken care of. Let's be here. You know?

Speaker 1

Which gets really tricky as a partner or a friend or a birth worker because when a mom looks at you and says, I need to go to the hospital, you know, who are we to say, no, you don't? Because is that mother's intuition or is that her fear? And that this this heavily speaks to why, ideally, we're only having women we're only having people birth with us who know us very, very, very, very, very well. Yeah. Because then you

Speaker 2

We went over this. We went over this a lot, actually. And and with my the book that I have in manuscript right now, I I told my husband, these are the four red flags. These are the four reasons to transfer. If one of these four things is happening, then you take me seriously and take me to the hospital. So for my husband, what I did, the fifth time around is I told him, if I say I wanna go to the hospital, it's probably because I am in transition. And that's that burst of adrenaline that comes out that goes, hey. Something's happening. You know? There's there's this clear change in hormones that's happening. And I might just say something, sound afraid or sound excited or sound impassioned or something. It could come out any different way. But for me, I've said twice, I went to the hospital when I really didn't. I just didn't have any patients or didn't know what was happening. So, so let's talk about the fifth birth because the fourth birth was another bummer. I was bummed. I was like, why am I here? This is not what I wanted. I just got this bathtub installed. I wanted to have the baby in the bathtub.

Speaker 1

Man, that's intense.

Speaker 2

It was intense. And then not being able to be let go, you know, and my husband and I get really angry when we talk about the experiences we had at the hospital. With perfectly normal healthy birth, why do we have to stay for three days and be charged for it?

Speaker 1

Because it wasn't a perfectly normal healthy birth. Those don't exist

Speaker 2

in the obstetrics.

Speaker 1

I mean, every everything is pathologized. And so, you know, I read something in an obstetrical book many years ago that said, a birth is not proven normal until three days postpartum, which really just sums it up for me. Because if if you have to if you don't get a chance, you know, to be seen as normal until three days postpartum, well, then come on. I mean, doesn't that just say say everything? So I'm curious before we get into your fifth story, I'm curious how this affects your relationship. Because I feel like for me, I would be really angry. I don't know if at him or at me or both or everything, but, if you want to speak to that area. So I have plans for you in that in that year after that fourth baby.

Speaker 2

Of course, I do. Well, we were remodeling a house and really not doing well with our relationship at all, and it was sort of hidden underneath everything that I felt negative towards him because he made a suggestion Right. That wasn't helpful, that actually caused me to get inflamed, and I I have felt a lot of blame. So, I told you earlier off off this podcast, I told you that, we were separated for two months during this fifth pregnancy earlier this year, and I was bent on divorcing. Like, I was so tired of him saying he was gonna leave. I was so tired of feeling unloved. I just felt like he was just terrible person. And part of it part of it I don't know. It wasn't just obviously, it just wasn't the birth, but it was just a that was just part of, like, the whole structure between us. And I'm a really fiery independent person, so I was like, screw you. I'll just be a single mom. And we got pregnant on accident this time. With the fifth? Yeah. With the fifth. Okay. Our friend had passed away. And on his birthday, we did a celebration for him five days later, and husband did something during our intimate time. And I was like, you shouldn't have done that.

Speaker 1

And he said, oh, you just got off your period.

Speaker 2

I was like, no. You shouldn't have done that. And it was the day. It was the moment, and I knew we'd gotten pregnant again. And I knew our relationship was just not doing very well. Woah. So yeah. We separated that. What was the time what

Speaker 1

was the time lapse between four and five?

Speaker 2

Between four and five, about twenty months. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. And about twenty months between we we've had them back to back, really. So we've separated for a while, and then I read this book called Love and Respect, and I adapted it to my worldview, and it completely healed our relationship. I learned how to give him unconditional respect. That includes blaming him for that part of the birth. So I really went through this whole cycle of forgiveness. In return, he has become the most loving, amazing person I've ever met. I mean, he's amazing, and he is he is the the perfect imperfect man. You know? And because I give him unconditional respect and he gives me unconditional love, we are committed to those things, and this book totally changed our lives. So we got back together, and I did mention it in preparation for this birth. I said, hey. You know, I really felt like you suggested something that wasn't in alignment with what I was feeling. And I I do respect using maybe, you know, and reinforce all this stuff about how I feel about him. And this time around, I don't want any suggestions, period. I don't want any suggestions because I don't wanna have any second guessing of myself. I want to really go by my instincts and what I'm feeling. And I do want your support. We've done this before. And, you know, I've labored with him four times or three times, and I, you know, I knew that he would do what I asked him to do. But I wanted to be really clear. Like, when you told me to push Oh, yeah. I felt like that inflamed my cervix, and I don't want any suggestions this time. And it was a difficult conversation, but we are our relationship is so good now that we rebounded from it really fast. And he said, okay. I get it. I'm ready to support. I'm ready to do this.

Speaker 1

So I'm wondering, also, did it ever cross your mind to not have him present?

Speaker 2

It did. So when we were separated, this is why I hired a midwife for my fifth birth. Now I'm pretty sure why. So I wanted to find somebody who was a lay midwife who answered to the family, not to the state. And here, it's illegal, so there there is one in town. And when we were separated, I hired her, and I told her told her, I don't want my husband to be present at the birth. I don't like him. I want nothing to do with him. We are getting a divorce, and I'm fast tracking it. Like, this is seriously happening. And she said, okay. Well, you can choose at the time who you want to be at your birth. So I said, okay. Cool. I will. And right now, I know for a fact I don't want him there. So I went through, and I got my prenatal care with her. Every month, we would do the checkup, you know, and I never really knew what to say. And I always felt like maybe she's just really introverted, and I'm probably not as introverted. And it was just this kind of felt uncomfortable sometimes because she's really quiet, and I'm really

Speaker 1

the prenatals like? I mean, was she doing the the kind of classic licensed midwifery prenatal care? Like, were you getting labs and Doppler and all this stuff?

Speaker 2

I asked for, I asked for the harmony test, which is the blood test to find out the sex of the baby and rule out genetic stuff. I love technology for some things that they're good for during I also do one, one ultrasound or I chose to do one ultrasound this pregnancy. And, Harmony test didn't come back with the sex, so we actually had to check the sex with the ultrasound this time. So there is a person in town, and a doctor who only does supports home births now, and he did my ultrasound, which was fun. And we were still separated when we went to that appointment. We got back together soon after that, and I decided to keep the midwife, though my husband felt a little bit uncomfortable with her. The prenatals were checking the the fundal height, doing a p test, which I never really understood why was I doing a p test. If I didn't wanna medicalize birth, why was I doing a medicalized prenatal? Didn't really need to know what my proteins were. I felt fine. I felt really good actually this whole pregnancy. I didn't have so all my other pregnancies, I had morning sickness the whole nine months and food aversion the whole nine months. I was miserable every pregnancy. This one has been great, probably because my relationship turned around and everything emotionally has been great. Also, just a really positive, healthy, active pregnancy using my abs, lifting chicken feet, doing all the stuff I'm not supposed to do Felt really good. So she would come by once a month, and I told her, I want this to be an undisturbed birth. I want you to sit in the other room, and I don't maybe you don't come in at all. Only if I ask. And we were in agreement of that. My back went out because I launched my third business during my second trimester. And I was sitting all the time, so my back went out really bad towards the end of pregnancy. So I got, like, trigger point massage, and I started going to yoga every single day. I started doing the spinning babies exercises because my baby was transverse, she was sideways. I really wanted to get my body in shape because I knew she wasn't getting in a position, and my other babies were all two weeks early. So I thought, oh, she's gonna be two weeks early. Not the case. She was, after the due date by, like, a week or so, which doesn't really matter, but I was expecting it. Silly me.

Speaker 1

It matters if you let it matter. Right?

Speaker 2

It matters if you let it matter. And everybody started asking me, when's your due date? And I'd be like, it was yesterday. Shut up. Don't ask me. Right. You know? Because I'm like and and they're all looking at me like, you're gigantic. I was all belly, and I was ready to have the baby. Like, she felt really big. So two days before my due date, my midwife and I had an appointment scheduled, and she had been trying to get a hold of me to confirm, which she'd never done before. The week before, I actually told her, I don't want any more appointments. I will call you when I go into labor. And she said, no. I need to have an appointment with you next week and every week. And I was like, woah. I hired you. Why are you telling me when to have an appointment? I don't want an appointment. I want to be left alone. Was this on the phone? This was in person.

Speaker 1

Oh, that's awkward.

Speaker 2

I said, I almost forgot about our appointment today. I really don't wanna have an appointment. I feel like it's just not I feel fine. I'm good. I'm gonna let you know when I'm in labor. She refused. So then we talked about it. Yeah. It was really interesting. I I really was impressed.

Speaker 1

She showed her true colors before your birth.

Speaker 2

Red flag. Red flag. Red flag.

Speaker 1

But also, question. So up until she got weird, did you decline any of the tests that she wanted? Like or was everything just kinda, like, harmonious?

Speaker 2

Ew. Everything was harmonious. I always declined to weigh myself. I didn't wanna be weighed, and she said that was fine. She's like, I'm just always gonna ask. And I felt like she was very respectful in that she was asking consent for everything. But with the p test, I didn't wanna do it one day, and it felt weird. Like, she wanted me to have it. Oh, and then she gave me my birth supply list. And I was like, yeah. This is, like, old hat for me. I've had four babies already, and I don't really wanna buy gauze. What are you gonna do with the gauze? Right.

Speaker 1

Right. Right.

Speaker 2

And and Wapio says if you this is where we got into the conflict about it. Oh. I said, you know, she teaches that if you pick the birth supplies that are gonna match the experience you wanna have. Totally. It can medicalize you you will get an oxygen oxygen tank. If you expect to have a medicalized birth and you wanna have oxygen there, you're gonna be setting the stage for, hey. This is what we want.

Speaker 1

Yeah. We talk about that in the course. If you have it there, you're gonna use it. So don't have a bulb syringe if you don't

Speaker 2

want it. And then she said she has a bulb syringe. She gives it as a gift to every family. Oh. Like, I don't want you to use a bulb syringe. So I asked her what the gauze was for, and she said it's to wipe for me to wipe your butt if I need to. And I was like, I don't want you wiping my butt, but I didn't say anything. And then she said it's also for me to wipe your baby's mouth because, you know, that can get in there and blah blah. And I said I said, wait. Hold up. Physiologically, when the baby comes out, they come out, they're face down, and you put them on the ground, and you collect yourself while they are draining

Speaker 1

Mhmm.

Speaker 2

Face down. Because I'm

Speaker 1

the baby's face needs to be wiped.

Speaker 2

The whole

Speaker 1

point of you declaring that you fucking face.

Speaker 2

I'll wipe the baby's face. I'll suck I'll suck its snot out with my mouth if I need to. I don't need a piece of gauze. So we had this argument about gauze, and she goes, you cannot have gauze. If you don't wanna get gauze, don't buy gauze. And it was this thing, this point of contention. And I was like, woah. This is not good. So the next week, I almost forgot about our appointment, and she seemed offended by that. I was like, but I'm here. Whatever. I remembered an hour ago, and then I forgot a half hour ago. And I'm like, I'm about to have a baby. I don't care. Care. So then I tell her I don't want an appointment next week, and she insists. And then we schedule it. And she's like, well, I'm not gonna drive an hour there if you're not gonna be there. And I was like, have I been at every appointment since I mean, before? I'm gonna be there. So Oh my god. Apparently, she said we're gonna confirm, but I didn't catch that part. So Monday comes along, and she texts me, and I turn my phone off because I work from nine to one. It's my sacred working time. I work my ass off during that time. I don't wanna be disturbed, so I turn my ringer off. Oh, no. She had been texting me trying to confirm the appointment. So I get her text at, like, twelve fifteen. Appointments at one fifteen. I said, yep. Sorry. Confirming my phone was off. I'll see you there at one fifteen. She writes me back, and she's like, I don't think that we should you know, I can't make it there in time. You didn't confirm. It's base it's the basic situation of you don't really wanna have the appointment, so you try to confirm with them. And then if they don't write back, that means that you don't have to go. That's what it felt like. So after all

Speaker 1

that literally said you didn't wanna

Speaker 2

do it. I literally said I didn't wanna do it anyway. So she takes this the wrong way, I guess. She gets all passive aggressive with me over

Speaker 1

to Or

Speaker 2

the right way. I don't know. She takes it the right way. So this is divine intervention training. So so the bottom line is we text back and forth, and I hardly texted anything. I just said, hey. It's in my calendar. I'm expecting you. I'll see you there. And she said, no. I'm not gonna be there, and we need to talk on the phone. And I said, alright. Let's talk tonight. I'm with my family now. We've pivoted. We're we're shifting gears. We're gonna spend some time together. So I, told her that, and she keeps texting me, texting me, texting me. I feel uncomfortable. I feel uncomfortable. I feel we're basic we're threatening to break up with me over text about being my midwife. And then she does. And I said, I will call you tonight. Please, you know, just relax. Yeah. I'm gonna talk to this woman tonight and break up with her, and she did it first. She did it on text, and she told me to go to the hospital Class. Because I'm because I'm a high risk situation, and I'm a high risk case, and I need to go to the hospital because she's covering her butt because she's not licensed. So then I'm like, oh, no. She didn't. She broke up with me first. That's not cool. And she did it over text, and I was gonna do it with her on phone. I'm so mad.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Like a woman. Had you had you paid her?

Speaker 2

I had already paid her in full thirty two hundred bucks.

Speaker 1

And did you get it back?

Speaker 2

She gave me seven hundred dollars. You should see the line items on it. The birth was basically gonna cost me labor, two hundred bucks.

Speaker 1

Right. Right.

Speaker 2

Right. She front loaded it like crazy. And I'm considering, like, can I even take you to court? Because you're not licensed. Wait. Won't you get in trouble? Wait. What do I do ethically here? It's really like, my husband just said deposit the check, and let's just write her a bad review of someone. Maybe that's what I'll do. I haven't decided yet. But the basic thing is, this is two days before my due date. Well, karma

Speaker 1

catches karma catches up.

Speaker 2

I know. Right? I didn't I didn't tell my yoga teacher. I didn't tell my mother. I didn't tell anybody because I was ashamed, and I felt like everybody was gonna worry for me. But you know what I said? I I said, okay. This is this is a sign. I am so angry about this, but this is a sign. I'm gonna have an unassisted birth. I don't need somebody to ask a question to. I've got everything I need in this book that I've already written, so I'm gonna study my own book.

Speaker 1

So So let's talk about that for a second. So so at the point of so your little baby was just born, what, a couple weeks ago?

Speaker 2

Yeah. She was born, two and a

Speaker 1

half weeks ago. Okay. So, obviously, it'll be later when people are actually listening to this. But but Sure. Point being, your baby was just born, and you, previous to this birth, had a pretty much done book completed on unassisted birth.

Speaker 2

It just needs editing, like copy editing. It's already been looked over by a midwife. It's already been, like, blessings from everybody, and I It's

Speaker 1

kind of ironic that you had a midwife look over an unassisted

Speaker 2

birth book, though. Yeah. And it wasn't the midwife I hired either. Let me tell you. It was a different obviously. I would assume. I wanted it to be medically accurate and biologically and physiologically accurate. You know? But, yeah, I have this completed. It's ninety seven percent complete manuscript just sitting there. So I pull it out, and I start to study it. And I say, honey, we're having an unassisted birth. That's just the bottom line. We can do this. And he's like, darn straight. We can do this. We can totally do it. So we didn't tell anybody that our midwife quit. I wanted to write my email list. I've got, like, thirty thousand people on my email list for good diaper free. I wanted to tell them all how mad I was at my midwife for quitting, and I didn't. I held back because I knew that that was just, like, not the point. Yeah. It was petty. So I started setting my

Speaker 1

own gonna but but goddamn it. We're gonna tell everybody on this podcast.

Speaker 2

I'm gonna tell everybody right now. Boy, I wanna say her name too. If you're in Asheville, do not hire the lay midwife, please, without getting a contract first. God. Okay. So I I start to study, and I am going to yoga every single day because my back is messed up, and it's getting better and stronger. And I'm doing my spinning baby spinning baby class, and I'm doing those exercises, and I'm getting my everything ready. And I'm reading my book, and I go through I went through all these waves of fear. I went through all of this genuine fear and being feeling terrified is the word of the birth because I've done this so many times, and I'm so afraid now that it's all on me that I'm gonna fuck it up. And I'm gonna mess it up, and it's gonna come out wrong, and it's gonna be my fault.

Speaker 1

Well, yeah, and we've all been, like, pretty darn dramatic.

Speaker 2

Pretty darn dramatic because the two hospital ones and the one home birth one were all kinda. And then the one unassisted one is like, yeah. But I didn't get to repeat that the next time. So maybe Mhmm. I had a lot of self doubt. Yeah. So I talk about it in yoga and the check-in in the beginning and say, hey. I feel terrified. And it made me feel seen and heard. I had this community sort of at the end, and it was really great. And I would talk about how I had anxiety, but I feel like it's just the hormones maybe or whatever. As I read my book over the next nine days, I felt stronger, stronger, and more able, and more empowered, and powerful, and just secure in myself and my body, and my baby and all the hormones and all the physiology that allows this to happen in all mammals and all of our world perfectly almost every single time. So I got all of this strength from this book that I started writing three years ago and hadn't touched since because That's amazing. I needed a couple more birth experiences. I needed this final fifth birth experience. This is this was the final piece of this book.

Speaker 1

We were saying before before we were recording that the most it would be the the most epic review on the cover of your book to just review it yourself and say, my book reading my book gave me the strength to to have an unassisted birth. That's so amazing.

Speaker 2

I'm gonna have to do that for sure. And and the the the book, like, I hate the way so I'm getting it copy edited right now. I don't like my tone in it, and so I was, like, really glad that I read it right at the end of pregnancy because I'm getting some copy editing help, which I didn't get with my other four books. But I I really want the tone to be perfect for this one, and that's what I'm working with right now. But while I was reading it, the information in it, the reminders that I got from, like, the emergency birth book and this other one by the DOD written in the cold war era. I got I had all these obscure and Michelle Audon, who's amazing on birth and breastfeeding, his book. All of these wonderful resources I quoted in my book, and they all gave me so much power and so much confidence that when I finally kicked out all my kids and the last person left my house, she came the next morning. My husband joked the night before he goes, oh, we're gonna get to sleep in. We're finally kidless. Kids are at grandma's. Your son just went back to his father's house.

Speaker 1

Did they go they go away because you were showing signs of brewing?

Speaker 2

I had lost part of my plug, and usually that's my three day warning, and it wasn't this time. Everything with this one was so different. I lost the midwife. A couple days later, I started reading this manual, then I sent our au pair to be with my grandma because she'd only been at her house for a month, and I wanted her out of my house. Yeah. I wanted privacy, so I started clearing the nest. Then a couple a week later, I sent my kids to grandma's. Two days later, my son left for his father's. The next morning, my husband was gonna make me breakfast. I said, no. The baby's gonna come at four. You know she will. At four o'clock, pretty much, I woke up with cramps, And I was like,

Speaker 1

oh. Yeah.

Speaker 2

It was the baby. Because everybody had left the house, she knew it was time to come, and I knew it was time to come. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And you were the first person to benefit from your own book. I love it.

Speaker 2

I was. I was. I totally I was like, okay. My midwife quit. Shit. What do I do? I hate her. I'm so mad at her. Why does she do this to me? Wait. It's not personal. It's purposeful. It is absolutely wonderful because I have this whole manual here that is the gathering of all of the unassisted birth knowledge that I could possibly even imagine. Yeah. And this whole beautiful path of birth that Wapio describes mixed in with the the three stage labor model, and it explains exactly what's gonna happen to me. And what is my job during this? It's to focus on relaxing. Oh, right. Okay. And to step aside and to remember when I fall asleep, that means it's done. That means it's almost done. That means that, you know, this this part, what each sensation means. I've really studied that part of my book. What does each sensation mean? And I went over the red flags briefly with my husband just to equip him, and then I reminded him, your job is to not intervene. Your job is to be here for me and to do whatever I say, except if I say to go to the hospital and then we're gonna talk about these things. So we went over those very specific things, and we'd have these little coaching sessions together. And it was great. It was wonderful. So I went into labor feeling extremely confident, not an ounce of terror, no fear whatsoever. I felt completely equipped, and it is one hundred percent because of my book that I'd written for myself a few years before. So and this book will be will be available very soon, but because it needed this last story. So it's like, oh, man. It was just it was my savior for the last few days of of pregnancy. And then when I went into birth, I started timing with my lap timer. And, when it definitely was, like, on, I started walking around. I washed the baby's blanket. By the time the baby's blanket was dried, I'd had the baby. So it's like this sort of gauge

Speaker 1

of time That's awesome. New blanket

Speaker 2

that my son wanted her to have, so it was laundered. I I found places of comfort. I've I've learned from my book. Oh, yeah. Seeking comfort's okay. It's not actually going to slow things down. It's okay to seek comfort because that's my instincts going, wait. Take this position because it feels more comfortable because that's actually going to allow you to fully relax and open.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And it's your baby speaking too.

Speaker 2

It is. It is. Yeah. And before I thought, well, that's just copying out and it should be a certain way and it should be I had this whole epiphany right the day before. Just going, wait. If I wanna be in the tub the whole time, it's not gonna slow it down. It's actually exactly what I need for that moment. It's fine. So I, I was getting pretty heavy into it, and I look over and I see my husband there, and I'm, like, laughing to myself. This is my midwife. It was what crossed my mind. This is my midwife. You know, it's not the woman I thought I hired. It's my husband, and he's just doing what I need. Fill the tub. Those are the few words that I said the whole labor. He filled this tub up, and I had the water. It's like this clawfoot rendition. It's not made of metal. It's like a cheapy tub, but it looks like a clawfoot tub, and it's got this beautiful, faucet. And and it was just pouring over my back as the tub filled up. And I can brace myself and relax my Yoni and my mouth at the same time as bracing my whole body. The next day, I had a bruise on my forehead and, like Totally. My arms were really sore. Like, what did I do? This is crazy. But during the labor, my job was to focus on relaxing and to be out of the way of that. Rapid dilation happened. Bringing her down the birth canal happened very easily. It was intense. I wouldn't say it was painful. This is the first birth I had where I did not feel pain except when I didn't push when I was supposed to, which is good information. You know? So as I'm sitting there in the tub and it's filling up with water and I'm having and everything's getting more intense, that's when it crossed my mind. I could totally go to the hospital right now. And I was like, woah. Why am I thinking that? Because there are there's community there. I could have people that wait that would coach me and yell and freak out. Sabotage. Wait and sabotage everything. Hold on a second, Andrea. No.

Speaker 1

Like, let's rewrite that pattern real quick.

Speaker 2

Yeah. We're not doing that. And and by the way, it would hurt more and it would take longer. You know that for a fact. Shut up. Get on with it. The the contractions are happening faster and closer together because your baby's coming, and you're so excited to see her. And I was like, okay. Cool, Andrea. Let's do this. So I I that took about thirty seconds of going, wait a second. I could totally cop out.

Speaker 1

You had to play with it a little bit.

Speaker 2

I had to play with it a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And I

Speaker 2

think that was the only thing. Such a feat. It's it's the monkey mind. Whatever. It's it happens. And so and then I laid down and passed out on the edge of the tub for a little while. And when I woke up, I was like, okay. Cool. That means I'm dilated. I reached in for the first time during the labor, and I opened my fingers, and I felt just the bag of waters. And I was like, cool. I'm fully dilated. Part of my mind went, no. You're not. You might not be. And then I was like, shut up. I totally am. You know? It's this really weird dialogue. And then my husband, I said, I fill her head in the bag of waters. That's all I could get out. He goes on YouTube in the other room, and he's, like, looking up how to pack pop a bag of waters because last time, we went to the hospital because I didn't know how to pop the bag of water. So he's getting prepared, and I appreciated that. But we didn't need to use it. I started screaming, and I was like, woah. This is really intense. I had this huge contraction, and my bag of water just burst right in my hand again, right in the water. And then I I felt her head really, really clearly, and I was like, I feel her head. And I started saying, come on, baby. I I feel you. I can't wait to see you. And I don't remember saying any of that. He just said that I said all this stuff. So then I have my fingers on her little fuzzy head, and I remember what I committed to myself actually with the midwife was if

Speaker 0

I start to feel out

Speaker 2

of control, I'm gonna focus on what it feels like to bring her down the birth canal, to be really present with that. So I I became really present with that, and I felt her it probably was only two or three contractions, and they were really big. And when I didn't push with the contractions, it hurt so bad. So I went with them and I pushed with them. Before all this happened, my husband whispered in my ear. He's like, Grantley Decreed is with you. They're all with you. You're doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing. And I was like, awesome. Okay. Cool. That's cute. It was really cute. He, like, said the perfect thing this time. Mhmm. So all is redeemed. He's like,

Speaker 1

I am gonna make up for that. Totally.

Speaker 2

Yes. So I felt her head, and I and I I I felt her coming down with each one. And I also didn't wanna do too fast, like, with Cooper. I didn't wanna bruise her, but it was happening fast. She gets to the outside, really. Like, she's crowning. And I thought, well, this should take a few pushes. Right? I'm thinking in my head. And then I threw that out the window. I said, hell no. This doesn't have to take a few pushes just because, you know, it's not and she's not gonna get sucked back in. All this stuff went through my head really fast. Back to presence. Totally. And I went back to present, and I had this really long, really intense contraction. And I felt her whole so my bottom lots of pressure on my bottom, and then I felt I I felt like, well, this can't be big enough to let her head through. But sure enough, her head popped right through, and I felt this cute little ear and this cute little cheek. And I was like, I'm holding your head in my hands. And he's like, you're doing exactly what you need. I said, I don't think I can do this. You know, there's like this last moment of, oh my god. Wait. That hurt.

Speaker 1

So Are you on your knees?

Speaker 2

I was on one knee.

Speaker 0

I was

Speaker 2

on my left knee with my right knee up, stabilized by holding the side. And then when I felt her head, I had my right hand on her head. So I took the one knee position when right about when my bag of waters popped. And Lapio says that she sees all these women take that position, but not to expect it. But, boy, does it give you stability. I, like, had full stability Mhmm. And had my hand in there. So then her head comes out, and I've got both hands there, and I'm on one knee in the tub. And then the next contraction was, like, eight minutes long, I swear. Probably wasn't. It was probably, like, a second long. But I've I've I had this David said it it was like an opera yell. So it's a very loud, prolonged, high pitched yell. And I pushed her body out into my hands. And I laid back in my tub, which is just so awesome for laying in. And I laid there. I moved away from my mic. I laid there in my tub with my baby in my arms, and I was like I looked at him. I said, we did it. I was like, that was amazing. We totally did it. All three of us. And, I looked at him and I said, we just we connected for a little while. I collected myself. There was a moment, definitely. And then I said, oh my god. You gotta take a picture of this. So he goes to get to his phone. And she's collecting her breath and I'm, like, blowing in her face a little bit as she's, like, coughing out her her her liquids. You know? I did have a moment of of maybe you should go get the bulb syringe. She sounds a little bit wet.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Then I get the bulb syringe in my hand, and I try to stick it in. I was like, oh, I can't do it, and I threw it. Yeah. I was like, this just isn't gonna work. Mhmm. But she she came back in that little kind of powerful Totally. Midwife impressionist stuff came in. Oh, and we're so far I

Speaker 1

mean, we're raised with that image imagery. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 2

Where you have to you're squeezing. Yeah. She didn't need that. She didn't need anything. She was perfect. She was wonderful. She was covered in vernic. She was like And that's such a beautiful

Speaker 1

a good, like, little mantra of let it be perfect. Let her be perfect. Like, we we are so in the culture that we live in. We're so knee jerk, you know, trained to look for what's wrong. Right. And and this is such a beautiful little example of, like, you have that kind of knee jerk, get the bulb syringe, and then it was like, wait, I can just let her be perfect. And she is and she was.

Speaker 2

She is and she was. And I I I was signed up for Karen Strange's NRP class, neon neonatal resuscitation something. And I didn't go. I I was having I don't know what it was. Business trouble that week, I think. I didn't go to her class, but I really I heard great things about it, and I learned that. Amazing. She's so amazing. And but what I remember learning about what she teaches is that the babies find their they're changing from they're everything's changing and all the little things that are changing that Wapio taught me about. And I was like, just give it some time. And within a minute, two minutes, three minutes, she was full on breathing like a pro and latching on in the tub. So then I stand up and my cord is hanging down, and I've got her in my arms. And he he took a picture of me like that. And it's the coolest picture because you can see the cord coming out of me Very cool. Onto her, and I'm standing there, like, so proud of myself. And all I did the whole time is I focused on helping my body. I was my own midwife. I was assisting myself, and I was very clear about being focused on relaxing, diffusing my awareness. I wasn't focused on the contractions, but being aware of them all at the same time and allowing myself to open knowing what each sensation meant. I translated all of them. I knew what was happening in these split second moments. I know this part. I know this part. I know this part because of the the biological training in my book that I wrote that nobody gets anymore. Nobody learns about the biology of birth anymore. But back in the day, they did, and the women who did had the easiest births. So I knew what I was doing, and I did it with intention, and I trusted in this knowledge and in my body, in my baby. And I took the positions that I wanted to take, and I walked fast as I wanted to walk through my own house. And nobody was there to tell me or need anything or whatever. It was just great. And afterwards, you know, I went to the bed, and I was shivering like crazy because of the hormones. And I knew that too. Postpartum, shivering like that, that's because the hormones are happening. And I birthed my placenta into the toilet, into a tub. You know? Like, we were so in sync, and my husband and I were just, like, together on it. You know? And then Wait.

Speaker 1

Where did the so the placenta came out where?

Speaker 2

In the toilet, I put the, I put a bucket in there Mhmm. And I had to pee. And I was like, I think my placenta is gonna come out too. So I just walked in there and, like, popped it out. Yeah. And, but before I did that, we actually tied and cut the cord, or he did. And we looked at my book to see where to tie it because we didn't really know how far to tie it, but I have an image of it in there. So I was like, oh, perfect. I'll just look at my own book that I wrote before. Let's just ask Andrea. Okay. So we tied it or he tied it. He cut it. I took pictures. It was beautiful. And then I went and dumped my placenta into the toilet. No. I I caught it in a bowl, and we looked at it, and it was gorgeous. He, like, went out and made birth art with it while I was sitting there that morning. We FaceTimed the kids, showed them the baby. I got on face Facebook live because I was like, I just had a baby twenty minutes ago, and I wanted to share it with everybody. And everybody was excited with me. It was, like, little bit of community in the digital age. It was kinda weird, but it was fun. It was fun. It was weird because my nipples were showing. But, so then we just I don't know. I just nursed her and relaxed, and then we hear the gate beeping. The cleaning lady showed up because it was her morning to come, and she cleaned the whole freaking house. It's awesome. Well Just sitting in bed.

Speaker 1

Little did she know she was heading into cleaning a birth house.

Speaker 2

Which I ruined my rug in my bathroom. It looked like it looked like a murder had happened in there because, you know, everything came out. Bloody. Worth it. Babies coming in. I'm a nurse. But, yeah, it was like, it was such a peaceful postpartum. And I felt where my uterus was, and nobody pushed it or, you know, in the hospital, they just, like, push it so hard and try to get your your placenta out. I didn't have a pen.

Speaker 1

How about them calling it fundal massage as

Speaker 2

if it's Give me a break. Like, get away from my fundal. I'm gonna kick

Speaker 1

you off the use.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I'll kick you in the face if you touch my fundal. I I I just touched it to see that it was I looked at my book, and I said, okay. It should be where my belly button is. And I felt around, and I felt it on my belly button, my uterus. And then it should descend or involute one finger breadth per day. And I said, okay. Cool. I I forgot about that. Got it. Checked myself. The baby's fine. We're all good. Called, had my mom bring my kids back, so three hours later, they show up. So I wanted my family back. And it was right before Thanksgiving, and I was so afraid we're gonna miss Thanksgiving with the family. So she brought all the kids back, but nobody nobody disturbed us. I called the pediatrician. The one guy told me to take the baby to the hospital because the manner in which my baby was born. He told the nurse to tell me that on the phone. Ew. I said, you know what? Let me just tell you. I've been coming there for six years. You know me. I am not going to a stupid hospital right now. There is nothing wrong with me. I wanna come and see doctor Peggy, not doctor who whoever else. And she said, okay. I'll call you back. I totally get it. And she calls me back. She's like, okay. You can see her in four days on Saturday. It's totally fine. So we had four days to just chill, and then we brought her in to see the pediatrician just to do a little one over. And she said, take her weight next Friday. Call it in. You don't need to come back for a month. And it was awesome. But I really wanted to have that sort of baseline. Okay. Now at at four days old, this is where she was, and then at one month, and just to sort of get a gauge. And I could do this stuff at home, and I had you know, we weighed her when she was born, and she was nine pounds. But we didn't get her height or anything, and I don't know. I just wanted to kinda check-in. And I also really like my pediatrician, that one. She's great. But the other one telling me to go to the hospital, I was like, give me a break. So that was it. That was it. And then postpartum wise, my recovery has been so fast. My body has felt so amazing. I'm forty years old, and I have had the most amazing recovery. And I know it's because this birth went exactly like nature intends it. Yay. The recovery has been exactly like nature intends it. And we started EC, you know, my, infant pottying right at birth, and I wasn't perfect. I didn't catch them all, but we got most things. And by day three, she was in a rhythm with pottying. Breastfeeding was immediate. It was amazing. The all of it was just so undisturbed and beautiful and the way that I wish all women got to experience birth. And that is it. That is all. That is the fifth birth, and it was just such a I don't ever have to have another birth. I'm I'm complete. I feel good. You know? I'm I'm satisfied. And then I think that, it was a wonderful gift, and it was it was meant to be that my midwife quit. It was meant to be that I I had to face all my fears Yeah. And really educate myself, and it was great.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And it's so interesting, you know, when when you were in that moment where you were like, I could just go to the hospital, you know, having walked the path you've you've walked and then being alone and having those thoughts inside of your head and not really having anyone there to midwife you, you know, you faced it. And you didn't turn away from it and you didn't, you know, freak out or whatever. You just faced it, and you did the work on it, and you walked through it. You know? And that's that's the, you know, that's the, like, spiritual portals that I feel like birth provides in such a big way should you choose to, you know, walk through, which you did.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And and it it occurred to me this is the only way it is through, and it is not easy. But it's not it's not terrible. It's not terrifying. It's just a really intense rite of passage and one that everyone deserves to go through. And, you know, we live across the street from the volunteer fire department. We easily could have an EMT or whatever come over if if needed. Like, I'm definitely in an ideal situation. If there's an emergency, I'm gonna utilize the medical system because it's there for that reason. But the way that it happened, every part of it like, I hardly even bled after the birth because my placenta knew my baby was okay. Everything was just in alignment. You know? And and even my self talk was in check. Like, that's like the whole time. And being lucid during birth, it I actually just remember this birth so well because of that. You know, I was present for it, and that's a huge gift. It was just amazing.

Speaker 1

And you chose presence, which is, like, the opposite of, you know, like an epidural, for example. Like, an epidural is a way to check out, which, you know, anyone listening, please understand. I one hundred percent understand why you'd wanna check the fuck out in a hospital.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. Absolutely. Like me I felt that way, but I got there too late. They were like, no. You can't have wine because you're you're fully done.

Speaker 1

Of course you wanna check out in an abusive situation. Absolutely. Where you're confined to a bed and and talked to, like, you're a fucking idiot and blah blah blah. Yeah. But but in in, you know, in your story and in so many that you chose presence and you and you stepped into presence again and again and again. You know, it's just it's so beautiful because you are getting to experience the full, like you said, the perfect word, the full gift of what of what birth gives you when you when you, you know, when you choose to say yes to it.

Speaker 2

And that's because I wasn't afraid. It goes back to Grantley decreed and birthing without fear. It's because of the education around what is happening, what is going to happen, what do I know happens, what are the things I forgot about and I need to really remember. There wasn't that tension against the the unknown Mhmm. And there wasn't the pain. And, yeah, it was hard. And it was unknown, and it was mysterious, and it was the edge of birth and life and death and everything. But it was it was amazing. It was amazing. And it was amazing to do that with my husband, whom we just repaired a relationship with. And to have that bonding and be in it together in a way that felt so good. It just all of it was so great. And she's she's just healthy and wonderful, and I just I hope that, you know, my story can help to inspire other people who you know, with the right amount of education and that builds confidence, I feel feel like anybody can do this. And what would we do if it were the apocalypse and nobody could access a birth center or a midwife? What would we do?

Speaker 1

You know, so it's just so interesting because it's all it's all our own individual paths to, you know, be coming into relationship with birth. And for some women, it's to not read a book, And for others, it's to read every book in you know, it it that they possibly can and

Speaker 2

That's a good point. That's a really good point. And I like that too because every there's no one size fits all. But, you know, with the manual that I wrote, I feel like what I try to do is leave out all of the philosophy, religion, blah blah blah, this and that. But look at us as mammals and who has done the research on how do mammals birth, and how do we understand the process that actually happens in our body. Even if we have, you know, the example of the paraplegic having a baby or the example of the In the coma. Heart issues, having a baby with with no complication at all, how the body just births anyway no matter what, and how beautiful that is, but how we don't learn about this. So even with, like, what the way I teach elimination communication, if this were still passed on from generation to generation as part of the wisdom sorry. The baby's, like, suckling really well. Yeah. It's cute. Even if it were passed down, we wouldn't have to educate at all. Right. And and some people just do EC instinctively, but I have met very few. I can imagine it's the same thing with birth. Like, some just say screw everything, and I'm just gonna birth instinctively and have that confidence. I'm the kind of person who has learned so much about birth in a negative way in my life. Right. Right. And I really need to unprogram that. Yeah. And and with me, I'm very type a, and I want facts. Mhmm. So I wanna be prepared, and I wanna be safe and smart about this birth and not do it recklessly just because I'm trying to rage against the machine. I wanna do it with some knowledge, but not any knowledge. I want knowledge from people who are speaking truth about it. Yeah. Like, Michelle O'Donnell or somebody like that. You know? Totally. And it it's interesting because, yeah, you shouldn't have to go learn this in a book. But if we had birth wisdom passed down to us, we wouldn't have to learn anything.

Speaker 1

Well, and we have birth wisdom inside of us. So it's it's how you know, like, for example, I mean, you know, your book, my course, I get shit for selling a course because women are like, well, isn't this wisdom inside of you? And it's like, yes, of course. And if you already feel that, then don't buy my fucking course.

Speaker 2

Don't. Yes. If you if you

Speaker 1

want to get more education and confidence, well, then here you go. We've created this thing for that demographic. The medical model and the and the anti home birth model say, like, well, you should only, you know, be birthing out of the hospital if you're really educated. And it's like, well, actually, birth happens period. How much is the individual spiritual path that we need to do to get right with that? Birth happens period. But for you to get right with that, you had your journey. For me to get right with that, I had my journey.

Speaker 2

So I

Speaker 1

love it. You know, I think there's so much, well, of course. Right? There's so much individuality in how we get right with all of these big concepts. How do we contend with death in having a free birth? You know, that's something that we all have to come to in different ways. Like, you had your, you know, your your four absolute for you transfer, and I had, you know, my own different dynamic set up with my team.

Speaker 2

And Yeah.

Speaker 1

I just love it. I love how individualized it is and how, it's it's for us, the birthing women, to establish what those are within ourselves first and then with the team.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And I think for me, like, I really needed to remind myself about what what does this mean when this happens so that I didn't have to ask a quote unquote expert Totally. And put myself in a situation that was gonna compromise everything.

Speaker 1

Well, and you're you're amazing because you literally made yourself be the expert through your book, which is so awesome that you had, you know, you like you said, like, of course, you're not gonna remember everything, and you wrote this book years ago. So you had this, you know, expert that was actually you that you provided for yourself written down. It's just it's such a amazing, amazing part of the story.

Speaker 2

It's kinda like that movie Interstellar. It's like that weird where you're time traveling, but helping yourself Oh, no. And you're it's really trippy. But it's true. Like, I I needed a guide, and that guide ended up being me. And and really crazy because I I've definitely had experiences in my life where I've realized, oh, I wish I had this kind of mother. I wish I had this kind of friend, this kind of sister, and they're all inside me. It's all me. I'm already there. But how do we unearth it? How does each woman unearth that sort of birth wisdom inside? For me, I needed facts and to understand how to get out of my own way so that the birth could happen the right way. And so that my body could do its job, how do I get myself out of the way? And that for me came through education. Other people might just be able to flip a switch, but I'm not like that, you know. Totally. It's it's crazy. We all have our own paths. I I'm really glad that I wrote it and that I could follow it, and then now I feel the impetus to share it because I feel like, you know, four years ago, there was a hodgepodge. You could find a bunch of stuff on the Internet, but it felt very unsafe to me. Like, do am I missing anything, or is this am I gonna be okay? Because I can't find all the information in one place. I'm really glad you have your course and everything.

Speaker 1

Well, and that's that's the point. Right? Is that is is that your book or my course, you know, are are spaces where everything's been collected for the for the user. Yeah. You know, and that's that's literally what a book is. We're so

Speaker 2

lucky. We're so lucky these days that we can find stuff like that. It's okay.

Speaker 1

Or create them. Yeah.

Speaker 2

Or that I had it in my drawer next to my bed. I mean

Speaker 1

Oh my god.

Speaker 2

I love it. I love it.

Speaker 1

Alright. Well and so yeah. Please tell everybody, about where they can buy this upcoming book. I know it's not out yet, but, any information that, and for anyone listening, you know, we are gonna do a different episode specifically on elimination communication, so don't be upset that we didn't get into that. But that's gonna be its own its own thing. And so, yeah. How can people find you?

Speaker 2

Okay. Well, they can find me, for elimination communication, which is for zero to eighteen month babies. It's basically pottying children based on their instincts from as early as birth. You can find me at go diaper free dot com. And for the unassisted birth manual, which is my working title, pretty sure that's gonna be the ending title, probably not too long after this episode comes out on your podcast, that would be at my unassisted birth dot com. And, I I I really am so committed to building community around all of this stuff, and I'm so glad that you've already started such a strong community around free birthing and unassisted birth. We just need that so much. And you'll find the same thing in Goodyear for free, and we will talk about it more when we do the episode on elimination communication. Because as far as unassisted birth and postpartum, EC helps you build so much confidence as a parent, as a new mom, a new dad too. Dads can totally be involved, from the very beginning. And I think it it's just there's a lot of questions and a lot of apprehension about it, but I make things really easy. So go diaper free is where I make that easy, and then my honest sister birth is is where the book forthcoming will be. I also have a business where I make underwear and training pants for babies who come out of diapers early, and it's tinyundies dot com. Oh my gosh. So that's like my little sister company, and we really it's all, like, character free, non commercialized cotton underwear and stuff Nice. For six months and up because, you know, we gotta make it accessible to change the culture around that. So that's where you can find me, and I hope you come find me because I love I love all of the people in our community. They're amazing. Amazing. Awesome.

Speaker 1

Thank you so much. Such a joy to listen to your stories and how wonderful to end end your birthing life on such a positive note.

Speaker 2

Thank you so much for what you're doing. I really appreciate all that you've done, and, I really appreciate being on the show. Mhmm. Thank you.

Speaker 1

That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of

Speaker 2

love.

Fifth Time's A Charm: Andrea's Story

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