Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea.
Speaker 2
Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. This week, I am back with elder midwife, sister Morningstar, diving into her wisdom of holding village prenatals in your community. Her two part episode of first season continues to be one of the highest downloaded episodes in Freebird Society's history, and we are returning today to one of the most common questions that I get emailed about. Sister Morningstar shines light on exactly how to organize a village prenatal in your community and explains what exactly the framework is. We cover the structure, how to find women, the do's and the don'ts, the intention behind it, and sister even gets me to sing with her. I do mention that we are making a downloadable free guide, and it will come out as soon as I can make it happen. Go to our website at free birth society dot com to make sure you're on our mailing list, and enjoy the episode. Oh, lastly, please excuse the quality. We had to record this over our phones, so it's not as great as I would have liked, but an awesome episode nonetheless.
Speaker 3
Enjoy.
Speaker 2
Hi, sister. So excited for you to be
Speaker 1
here. Hello.
Speaker 3
So I have some questions written down. And, basically, the intention of this call in my heart is that ever since I released your two part episode, it remains to this day, one of my most popular episodes. And I am, constantly getting emails, with women who have found this episode, and it so deeply spoke to their heart and their, you know, their birth keeper heart and wanting to know, more about, what a village prenatal looks like. And and I wrote down some of the questions that I most commonly get answered. I mean, I'm sorry. I wrote down some of the questions I most commonly get asked. Mhmm. And, yeah, just I wanted to kinda just dive a little deeper into your wisdom around this, because now in our private membership that I've created, we do regular virtual village prenatals, with all the pregnant mamas around the world, and then we also, have radical birth keeper calls. And one of the most common things that come up on the calls with the birthkeepers is, you know, I there's nothing like this. I wanna start something like this, and then, you know, into the list of questions I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you. So, you know, I'm answering them the best I can, and I've I've organized or or held my own version of this throughout the years. But, you know, this is this is your wisdom, and this is the term, you know, that came from you. And I have I always pass on those handouts of the drawings you sent me. But I'd like to and with your permission, like I said in the email, I would like to use the wisdom from this call that we're about to have, and then, you know, further emails between us. I would like to make a downloadable little guide to kind of break down some of the questions that are commonly asked and, with the intention of of any woman who has this call in their heart, you know, to offer this to their community that they feel, yeah, just confident and ready to do that. And, you know, you and I both know that this is a very simple thing. This is not, I have found that when women are contacting me, they're way overthinking this. You know, usually, my response is just have women over for tea. Just do anything. You know? It doesn't matter. Like, you know, we'll get into the the kind of fabric of this, but, the point is just to start and just to be, be a a hub of love and nurturing to women through this time. But, you know, the the the reality that I've seen is that women who wanna start this need a little bit more context than a, I would like to to create as much of a simple kinda how to guide to encourage them and break it down.
Speaker 1
Okay. So, just know that you can also access the website, and there's a there's a page on women's circles that has a handout. Okay. And there's a page on village prenatal. And so any any of the information or content there that would be helpful to you, you're welcome to and or you're welcome to guide sometimes women have to start with a women's circle and grow into a village prenatal because there's a little bit of different or, skills skills for guiding those circles.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
So they can they can, of course and if they start a women's circle, then off often or maybe immediately, there are women in the circle that are pregnant
Speaker 3
as Right.
Speaker 1
As well. But a village prenatal I so I'll just take your questions first. That that'll be the best way.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, I would love just first to kind of review for anyone who's new to this concept listening too, just to review, what a village prenatal is. Yeah. Just kind of explain the container of it if you would.
Speaker 1
Okay. So I think, for for most people, especially Americans, they often hear village prenatal and start thinking of group prenatal.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
It's a totally different concept, and a group prenatal has so much to do with assessment. You know, whether so all they've done is taken the individual and put them in a group, but they're still going to assess. Usually, a professional is assessing. And I'm not saying that that's not important. I'm just saying that it a village prenatal is not that. So what it what it is is, a way to return the birthing mother and baby back to her community. So it it I'm not saying it can't be done online. We do it in Russia. We we do it online a lot. But but, ideally, once it is, experienced, then people in for me, people in Nigeria, Chile, Brazil, Australia, everywhere, they get the convince to then do it in their own little local, areas where they can actually feed those women and touch those women. And so it it re it's the same concept of women walking to the well. So you see that a little bit in that handout that the Australian, student, scribbles while while she was at one of one of the conferences. So you can imagine women walking to the well together, so they knew one another, and they cared about one another. And they had they could touch one another, access one another often and repeatedly. So with that energy of, we know, Shari, and and we're gonna see Shari before she births and when she births and after she births or whatever the one vested in her. So it's a returning of Shari to her people rather than, oh, Shari's pregnant, and she'll go to her doctor. And we shouldn't even really we don't know anything. So we can't even say, Shari, how are how are you sleeping? Or Yeah. We, you know, we can't because we don't know anything. Right? The doctor ask your midwife, ask your doctor. So it's a it's a, a a complete three sixty spin. And so the way, the way it physically starts looking is you you have to have, positive birth story. You know, people who've who've had some experiences and and some of the people that that I know that don't have any in their area, they'll often read stories from my book or they'll they'll in your case, they might know stories they've heard read or heard on your on your your medium, whatever that is. And they might actually just retell those stories or read those stories together because they don't have any of their own. But, ideally, there would be women in the circle and more women, fewer pregnant women and more women who are the elephant circle, so to speak, or the the people who are going to be able to have positive birth stories, bring food, the the location, ideally is a home where there's a kitchen, a bathtub, a bathroom, a way to make altars, a way to to set the environment so that when the pregnant woman arrives, there's there's a sense of of home and safety and welcomeness. And it doesn't matter for me, like, I'll have an have another one in a couple of weeks. It doesn't matter to me if the woman is going to birth in the hospital, at home, on her head, whatever. Like, she's pregnant. So the village prenatal is all about serving the pregnant women. It's not about trying to get them to birth a certain way
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Or, or to change their mind about how's it birthing. It's just to wrap them in love and, care and, to feed them, to to nourish their body, their mind, their soul, to start to create a space where they can be pregnant and maybe even talk about their their their life as a pregnant and expecting mother that's safe. So that when they leave, it's not that they're more scared, like a prenatal visit, like Right. So and they're so excited to kinda go get to and then they come home and they're worried and anxious, some test, some this, some that. It's it's none of that. Sometimes women arrive and they're so tired or they've got other babies at home or they're but they just had a fight with the partner or they don't have a partner or who knows what all. And we usually just run a a big tub of water and and I send in a handmaiden and we light candles and put them in the dark and let them just relax and rejuvenate while we start the drumming and get the food going and, and everybody else settles in. So let's see. There's only two questions, and that is and those two questions are usually handled with a talking stick, and they're usually handled separately. So the first question is, what is your ideal birth? If you could birth any way you want to, what would it look like? Please tell us. It doesn't have to make any sense. Mhmm. It doesn't have to be possible. It's just your ideal. And it's not our job to help make it possible for her. Like, our it's so important to for me, the most work I do is helping the people who are coming to empty their mind. Not the pregnant mothers, but the other people.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally.
Speaker 1
To empty their mind. You are not a doula. You are not a childbirth educator. You are not an icon on the Internet. You are not anybody. You are just a woman. Maybe you birthed and then you have maybe you have a power story. You you are here to, listen and to, receive her ideal birth, her not not help her make it possible at all. And so our response is usually may it be so. And in between, if there are lots of women in by lots, I would I would say, well, if I'm in a conference and there's lots, if even here, sometimes there's nine or that's a lot of women to give everybody a chance.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Be calm, to be not rushed. Then intermittently, we might sing or drum or I might say, to the people who aren't pregnant, tell me, who has a funny something funny that happened in their birth? Something very funny. We might tell some funny stories. I might say, who has had two babies? And, and and of course, I already know if if they've had positive power births because we don't like, say someone has several births but and some of them were not positive and some of them were. So they know in the village prenatal, we only we only talk about the positive powerful things since we have other circles for the trauma birth. We have other circles for, those those other aspects.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
We don't give advice. We don't tell them what to do. But I so I'll break it up like that with maybe, what are some tricks of the trade with that other baby? What did you do that you that that you love? What would you do different if you could? Let's see. It could be a million things, of course. Oh, that's right. And then we circle around eventually to the second question. Again, using the talking stick and, usually in this way, always there's a throne too. So the person talking usually is seated in a in a sacred space with a sacred scarf and a sacred and always there's a handmaiden that's bringing her more food and more drink. And the second question is, what is your current fear or worry or cons and, and we hear those. So if she came in her first trimester, then her second trimester, her third trimester, The all these answers will change. So her ideal birth is gonna look different. That's why it's so important to not get fixated on, oh, Mary Lou wants this. Oh, that's what she wanted at that moment. If she keeps coming, it's gonna change. And same with the fears, the worries, the concerns. So she may say one thing and then it's that's the biggest job I have is maturing, growing the the the core group, the the stable group to not take hold of anything, to keep themselves an empty vessel because she might say x y z. Then the next time people are all like, oh, how how is this? The tuition that you were so and she's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. So
Speaker 1
a long time ago. No. No. No. I'm not even thinking of that anymore. Now I'm thinking of
Speaker 3
Is it the same parameters, the same guidelines every time?
Speaker 1
The things I'm mentioning are the same.
Speaker 3
Okay.
Speaker 1
The the things I'm mentioning are the same. The things that change have to do so there's always food. There's always stable people. There's always positive birth story. There's always those questions. There's always the talking stick. There's always reminding people, because other people, as hard as they try, they will start to say, oh, here's what I did with that. You could try blah blah blah. Mhmm. Don't worry about that. You're gonna be, like, they have a worry. Oh, you don't need to worry about that. You're gonna be perfectly great at that. That's never gonna happen to you. And these are dangers because we do not know what will happen to people. We cannot tell them anything. And I don't mean because of legal things or trolls or whatever. It's that it's not wise. Mhmm. That's her concern at that moment. She's being vulnerable and honest, and, she's trying to let us know. This is my worry. This is my concern. So our response to that is we are here for you.
Speaker 3
Do you, in the beginning of each one, kind of, for lack of a better term, like, lay down the the guidelines if there's new people, so that like, I'm wondering one question that's been asked to me a lot is how do you navigate the potential of negative stories or advice given. And so I'm wondering if when there's new people, do you just give a little introduction of, like, these are the guidelines and this is what we do and do not do in this space?
Speaker 1
I handpick my people here. If I'm at a conference, there's obviously going to be new people because I'm or if I've or if people have called me in to go to another state and I'm doing one of village prenatal in another country or another state. But if I was in my own locale, then I would hand I would make sure that the people coming are people I have worked with before and I can count on. And then if they're then then what usually happens is people that were in the village prenatal and were pregnant, then they get it so well because they know what that felt like. And then when they come back with their new babies and their new, whatever, then they're they're wonderful people to have in the in the elephant circle because, you know, so it it just starts to build a beautiful core. But, yeah, if you're in a situation where there would be new people, and I certainly lay down the guidelines, and I tell them right up front, do not take it personally. We are here for the pregnant women. So if something starts happening that gets us off track or that people get, you know, emotionally, triggered or or you think you're saying something positive, but actually it's it would be hard if the person was pregnant. You you just surpassed that, so you're not noticing. I will, I will interrupt you and do not take it personally. It's okay. So I just let them know right away. Then if there's somebody who does that happens to and it's very emotional. Let's say they had lost a baby and they were determined they weren't gonna speak about that. They were gonna talk about their, subsequent birth. That was a powerful v back. And this the the the the women in the room, there are some of them that are pregnant and they're planning their v back. So she's a gold mine. Right? She had a powerful v back. But let's say, her baby died, at at thirty eight weeks as a stillborn. And then, the mother's fear, one of the new mother's fear was she's thirty eight weeks and she's afraid her baby's going to die. Something that would trigger this other mother and she just can't control herself or she, you know, whatever becomes emotional or whatever, then I I always, identify a handmaiden for her. Someone and I would say out loud, does anyone here know Mary? Or Alyssa, you know Mary. Do you mind taking Mary for a walk for a moment? Or something that would, like, if I if I think she can stay stable, I might just have someone come up behind her and just hold her and keep, moving forward without the attention, shifting to that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's what I think women are and and, you know, so much of what you're speaking to is is a skill of holding space and knowing how to read the room and knowing how to do it gracefully. And and so much of this, it comes down to knowing the women that are there. Right. And so, you know, I think one of the the things women have said to me in their, you know, beginnings of of their community gatherings is, worried that they're gonna make someone feel shut down or or excluded or, like, that story is not held. And and like you said earlier, you know, my suggestion has always been to make sure that they know that there's absolutely other spaces for that. This just isn't that space. And so I think it takes
Speaker 1
And if if there are other people in the room who feel worried about that, for example, like, oh, but what about Mary? You know, then you can just say out loud, absolutely, there is a space a different circle. We have a different circle for those stories. So it's not that and that that's why I if if I knew that Mary's not ready, and I just had this last week, so Alyssa Alyssa, she wanna come so bad, but her story had positive parts and, horrifying parts. Mhmm. The horrifying parts, she has not got over yet.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
There's no way another six months, she'll probably have the time space she needed, and we'll have circles for for those. And she'll be grounded enough to to be able to, bring forth the parts that were positive. But it's too early, and I had to say to her, Alyssa, it's too early. It's too early. It would be too much for you right now to have to hold that, in yourself, and maybe even it would come out a little bit. And then other people would be worried about you. And you're not and she knows because she loves village prenatal. We are here for those who have not yet birthed and must. Like, they can't get out of it. Mhmm. They have to have a baby one way or another, and this is our only opportunity to support them.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
We have to focus. We now one time I was in a big conference with, you know, two hundred people or whatever. And, of course, all people wanting to know about village prenatal, and I saw right away, oh my goodness. What shall I do? They cannot they cannot be what they need to be. So I just created three different circles. Luckily, we had a huge, conference room, but it could be done if you had too big of a of a group even even locally. And I just created a small circle or I shouldn't say small. I I called for everyone who felt like their trauma, whether their baby had died or their baby had or or the the situation was horrifying or whatever, if their trauma was so big and fresh and real to them that it it would be easier for them to talk about that than to hear the excitement of of mothers who are excited about having their baby. And I created a circle for them often a different corner. And then I said, who here wants a baby? Maybe you have ten, but you want another baby. You or you have no babies, but you want a baby. Who here wants a baby so bad that it would be hard for you to listen to the excitement and the joy of a mother who's about, you know, who's pregnant, going going to have her baby. We have a special we create a special circle for you. And so I just did that. I created the three. Who here, is is comfortable with their birth, their life, everything's fine, they're filled up, and they have plenty to just be present for other women that are going to be birthing because it takes a lot. So after we do the questions, we also then feel the baby if they're willing, you know. So we have to create a lot of pads and and we don't listen to the baby, like, to count anything. We listen to the baby and absolutely not without any machines, but Mhmm. But we listen to the baby and play with the baby to get to know the baby because the baby's going to be a part of this community. Talk to the baby and and touch the baby. It's the mother's willing and they almost always are. In fact, they're usually thrilled, you know, they want someone to love their baby. Totally. So and if we get heart tones with either a a wound chime or a fetoscopic, then of course, we always let her listen first. And in this modern world, often they've only heard their baby with a doppler or maybe they've never heard their baby. Or if they don't wanna hear the baby, that's fine too. But, then we paint their belly, not so much with belly mapping as, energy, stars, and moons, and and roots and who knows what all. I usually use the mud from my creek, but Mhmm. You could use belly paint or whatever. But we just and while we do that, other people are rubbing their hair, rubbing their feet with special oil that we have or, and we sing songs. So through this, we might be singing wild woman mother song or, precious child of the universe, whatever we're singing. And then after that and, of course, we've been feasting throughout. Then after that, I put them in a circle with their backs to their backs. So it usually makes us circle where they're looking out, and then we circle around them singing and singing and singing and have them close their eyes so that they take us with them in their birth. When wherever they are, in their birth, they they can feel our love and energy. And then we give them a blessing, usually, with some sacred water and a feather, a one word blessing so that they take that word, you know, that power word medicine, with them.
Speaker 3
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1
It's very simple.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
It's not about, midwifery or medicine, but but you are right. It it takes skill. Otherwise, things get drawn off track Mhmm. In into who knows what all into GBS and Mhmm. Latest whatever is about that Yeah. Or into tears and how you avoid them or into, don't know, somebody's bad birth and what could have been done and then there's the tissue and how do you help them.
Speaker 3
And and I think what's what's coming up for me too as I'm hearing you describe all of this is that the the holders of the space, they really need to if it is going to create this kind of level of love and nurturing and and support and just everything that you're speaking to, you know, the women themselves that are offering this space need to be comfortable, touching and loving in a way that goes beyond just word support. You know? I mean, I feel like so many circles that I've been to,
Speaker 1
it's just like tuning in.
Speaker 3
You know? It's just like, hey. How are you? Check-in. You know? Even, you know, you know, speak what you want your birth to be of. But without all of these extra layers of, you know, imagining the women, you know, touching each other, you know, touching their babies and listening and celebrating and singing and playing you know, massaging their heads or their feet, like, that level of nurturing, it is so important. And it I think for a lot of women who aren't super connected in their community yet, you know, as we hold these circles, we have to be willing to create those spaces. And, it is, I think, for a lot of women who don't necessarily touch each other or go there, you know, to that degree of of just tenderness and and nourishment. This is a big piece, you know, of of I guess that kinda brings me my next question is, who all hold the space with with you or with with anyone doing these? Is it just it's it's mothers who have been to these village prenatals before and other birthing people, I'm imagining?
Speaker 1
Well, first of all, what you said is very true and even some of the mothers or or anyone in the circle might not be accustomed or or or initially comfortable. And I think that's where role role modeling Mhmm. Is so important because if if at least some of the people are not too forward, but but, like like you would you would to throw into water or I listening to a baby, for example, I always say, be like a feather that lands on the water and then drifts to the bottom. It's ever so slow and soft that it finally, that that you finally the fetoscope or the Pinard actually goes from the surface of the tissue to, the uterus and then to the back of the baby. This is a very it's a journey. It's a beautiful experience. So role modeling so that something that's foreign becomes familiar and then familiar becomes desirable, It it I I agree. It it it does take some of that. All also, it returns birth to the community in in that people who thought they knew nothing. I I don't know anything about helping a pregnant mother. Mhmm. They're like, oh, you feed her. You lift her. You rub her feet. You you hug her. You you you your face gives a big smile when you hear her her baby. Maybe you put your ear to her belly if she it's like, oh, I could do that. Mhmm. All of a sudden it's the I could do nothing. I don't know anything to I could do that. Oh, they need of course, they don't want just McDonald's takeout and whatever. Oh, I could do and so it returns. Oh, you can hear baby. They're not pretty soon they know how to find a head or whatever. And it's not about teaching it with braces. It's about knowing things that women would know. We would know all of these things if we'd had uninterrupted access to one another
Speaker 3
Exactly.
Speaker 1
From the dawn of time. So we have to bring it back. That's what the village midwife or the village of prenatal is about, about bringing back something. So they might be doc like, in my group, in two weeks, we'll have another one. There will be doctors there. There will be psychiatrists, childbirth educators, doulas, midwives, professional, as well as lay. There'll be women who burst in power, and these are all women who will not be the pregnant women. And the more educated and the more hats they've had, the more patients I must have with them because to think they know something, that's a danger when we think we know something because we we don't know how to observe and the legit prenatal is about being able to observe. Did Mary Lou eat more of the Mediterranean type food or more of the Mexican food? Because at the end, we send all the food with the pregnant women. Whatever food is left over, we send with them. And you don't wanna just send anything. You have to have noticed. Well, what did what did Maria like? Is she maybe Mexican, but maybe she didn't eat all the Mexican food. Maybe she liked the Greek food or whatever was brought. So it's about observing. It when when Shari was, answering her question about what is your ideal birth, did she just pour it out? Did she just say, oh, god. I've been thinking about this. Oh, here's what I want. Or did she say, I never thought about that. I I no one's ever asked me that. I I just want a healthy baby. Mhmm. Almost everybody will say, I just want a healthy baby.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 1
But a woman from Columbia in Phoenix, last year, I was there and she married an American man. And she was in the circle, And, of course, she said, oh, I just want a healthy baby. And I said, wonderful. Almost everybody does. You're right. In good company. But assuming you have a healthy baby, how would you like it to look? Walk me through it. What would I see? What would I hear? What would it sound like? What would it smell like? What would be going on in your ideal world? And she closed her eyes. I said, close your eyes and tell me. And she started to describe, of course, things that she probably had heard in her homeland. She said, oh, there would be a a circle of drummers outside, and there would be, tortillas downstairs. I would smell them. I would be upstairs, and I would smell them. And there would be this and that. It would be at night. The stars would be shining through the window. Sweet grass would be burning. Blah blah blah. You know, she articulately had this vision and idea, and Emily, she did it. She ended up purging that way. Of course, she wrote me later, and she said I would have never even approached, like, the people that I needed to do these things if I hadn't been given the opportunity to even think about this.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally.
Speaker 1
So it's not our job powerful. Oh, I'll be the drummer. Oh, I'll make the tortillas. Oh, I'll bring the sweet grass.
Speaker 3
Right. Right. Right.
Speaker 1
It's our job to say, may it be so. May it be so for you because she'll figure it out. Mhmm. If that's what she wants, she'll figure it out.
Speaker 3
And do you have the people who are coming to hold the space with you all bring food? Or is it just okay. Cool.
Speaker 1
Yes. Everybody comes brings an icon for the altar. They bring, food to to share. They don't have to bring enough for everybody. They just bring a dish to share. And they bring, you know, maybe their own sitting pad, a drum. Mainly, if they're not the pregnant women, then hopefully and mainly an open and giving heart because, you know, we meet for for even just three or four women, we meet from eleven in the morning to five PM.
Speaker 3
Oh, I was gonna ask you that. I love that that it's so long.
Speaker 1
Well, it takes every minute of it.
Speaker 3
Right. I bet. Totally.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It takes every moment. So it's a gift. And the people that are pregnant, they, because maybe they have maybe they're planning a hospital birth, and they've had their ten minute prenatal checkup earlier that day or whatever or yesterday or whatever. So they're they're very aware of of what's being gifted. Mhmm. And Beautiful. It's beautiful. I also really ask at least some people to be the ones who will clean up after. And everybody's very enthusiastic, so everyone's gonna help get the pregnant mothers out the door and put some food. And sometimes I tell the pregnant mothers, be sure and bring some to go containers. But then I do ask a few people to please stay after and help me clean up.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Because it's also kind of important if you do it ongoingly like like I do to have maybe a little core of people who can do, a cleanup and evaluation of, like, how did it go? You know, we we have to have our support. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And how often do you host them?
Speaker 1
Well, it really varies because, you know, I I I have a little community. So if there's somebody who's dear to our hearts or or extremely desirous, then, you know, we might have we might have them every month because or whatever. Otherwise, it might be every couple of months or it might be two and one month depending on how many people.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Because in more than four or five people, it's gonna take more than four or five hours.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Awesome. And how do you feel about, that that there are women doing this charging for these spaces or events?
Speaker 1
Well, I think people have to just do, you know, according to their own they
Speaker 3
have
Speaker 1
to follow their own inner guidance because I put the concept out there and it's working so well all over the world, including my own country. It's usually my own country's last. But, you know, it's kind of like our blessing ways. People have to just jump in the water, you know, do the best they can. And if part of the best they can do is maybe they don't have a space. Like, say in Moscow, it's so hard to even get a space so maybe they have to rent a space.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Maybe they wanna cater the food and not have other Maybe the people coming from soda. I don't know. People have different difficulties and challenges and and needs and all of that. So I I just stay out of, an opinion about how people need to make things happen.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 1
For me, and for the people that I that I encourage, I always really try to let them know at least the basics that if it moves too far into, oh, here's GPS and the latest research and blah blah blah and your baby's heart tones were x y z and whatever, then you're really moving toward a group prenatal and that's a different thing.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally. Yeah. I think that that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1
On the other hand, even though the people that are, not pregnant and I'm so strict with them. On the other hand, the women who are pregnant were there for them. So if they are pregnant and they had a stillbirth last baby at thirty eight weeks or they, or they heard the latest research on GBS with x y z. So whatever's coming out of their mouth, that's that's why we're there. Mhmm. So if if unless they start telling trying to tell other types of women, but if they're just talking and processing and, so I had a journalist that had done her, a big documentary on the mortal mortality rate in Peru, And she was pregnant, and she was so so worried that her baby would die, of course. And she felt like she needed to say very clearly, mothers oh, not her baby would die, that that she would die. And she just felt like she needed to say, mothers die in childbirth. I know they do. And she just felt like she needed to say that. And, you know, I just I just reminded everybody in the room, this is her fear. This is her fear. We are here to listen to her fear. You know, or somebody else's like, but my GBS kills babies. You've gotta use they're they'll point to some other woman that's not getting her GBS checked. You have to. Like, no. She doesn't have to, but you might have to.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 1
That it's your baby and your life and your birth. And if that's important to you, you should do it. But she must do what is right for her.
Speaker 3
And this is where it comes back to having a having skilled leaders of the space, you know, to be able to navigate those those kinda hairy potentially hairy little areas because that that is, you know yeah. I guess that's just so important.
Speaker 1
Well, I do I do think there is one, little phrase that I use a lot that might be helpful. I'll I'll say also as a principal, you you really have to maybe have skills truly, leadership, maybe all of that, but love everyone in the room. Like, it's so important to have a love for everybody in the room. So if you've let someone in the room that you're not in harmony with or you're not at peace with or you there's something not settled about, that will undermine you're like, you you you have to be able to have a love in your heart for everyone. That way, when if someone gets off track or whatever, it's from a loving place that you're able to bring them back in the fold or get them a handmaiden or whatever without, negative emotions coming up.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 1
So I was also give the example. One time we had a a mom, actually a psychiatrist, and and, again, g GBS was some mother was worried about GBS and then this mother was pregnant. And when she had the talking stick and she was talking about her ideal, she said, I just wanna say that, when my when my, midwife wanted and needed, for me to do GBS, I didn't wanna decline because I had already declined so much. So I just I just took the swab and I just did it on the inside of my leg and it came back negative and she was happy and I was happy. And and so this happened in the circle and, of course, everybody's looking at me like and I said, well, there's that. Willie, what is your ideal birth?
Speaker 3
Oh my god. Yeah. That's funny.
Speaker 1
So, being able to just say, well, there's that.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Move on. Just move on. It's not your job to set things right.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 1
It's their story. And that was her wisdom that she shared.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Mhmm. Totally beautiful.
Speaker 1
Her her, what you call the experience. Her
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And it's her body. She can do it that way if she wants to.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I'm wondering I don't know if this is something that you'll have too much to say on because you have been living in in your communities, you know, for for so long and and you know the women in your community so well. One of the questions I get asked a lot around how to start these is how does she advertise, how does she get the word out, how does she find women who'd want to come to these. And I was wondering if you had any anything around that to speak to.
Speaker 1
Oh, sure. Because, again, even though I have my little community, I teach around the world. So, yeah, I get this question all the time. And, I think it's easy. The the main thing that you need is a pregnant woman. So, I mean, I I guess if people don't know a pregnant woman, it would be funny why do they wanna do a village prenatal. But, but you you just need a pregnant you only need one, a pregnant woman. And that pregnant woman, it doesn't matter where or how she's gonna birth. If she's willing to come and have you feed her and with no ulterior motive, you're not trying to get her to do Right. Thing. You're just, honoring her as the the holiest woman on the planet. Like, pregnant women are the holiest women. They carry our entire future. I can't believe we don't treat them better. Mhmm. Me too. So you need a pregnant woman. And if you wanted more than one or whatever, then, of course, if there were there are all kinds of of ways that people, find other pregnant women, whether it's childbirth education classes or Laleh J League or the local health food store, then you need a proportionally larger number of people who will hold the space for her. So with one, it could be you and her, you know, if it if it needed to be, or it could be other. You know, I I was called to Berkeley for a Japanese family once. And, Diana Diana Paul, I don't know if you know her. She's a a filmmaker in Berkeley. And I said, Diana, we we have to have some pregnant I mean, some, power women that have burst in power. Can you find me some? And she just, you know, kind of I I don't know. She just sent out a little of face I don't do social media, but I guess a Facebook message or whatever, kind of a a select select circle of people and ask about, like, really super power births. And, yeah, we ended up with four or five women there. But it could be childbirth educators or doulas or midwives or or I like especially, grandmothers that have burst in power, elders that have unusual births that don't really happen very much anymore. And they often have been told that they were dangerous or they shouldn't have done that or you got lucky. And I'm like, oh, her.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Her. We want her in the
Speaker 3
Totally. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Absolutely. Cool. I think that that's I I really am appreciating the reminder to simplify, simplify, simplify, and that, you know, this this just bringing back, you know, to the to the heart of this, to the intention of this. And it is, like you said, you just need one one pregnant woman who's willing to
Speaker 1
be
Speaker 3
being honored, heard, loved, you know, and that that is that's everything. That is that is a village prenatal.
Speaker 1
And the icons would be food, shelter. Now we do sometimes just do it on the creek side, but that would be in in warmer weather. A talking stick can be a a hair pick. I mean
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally.
Speaker 1
Yeah. In terms of, like, really knowing how to be outside of of rigid boxes. A a clean surface where she could lie down. Even your ear can listen to a baby in trimester. You don't have to have special tools or anything. Your hands can play with baby even if you don't know what you're you know, like, we had a a little gal here, who did a powerful v back. She has no desire to be a midwife or anything, but she's like, oh, sister, this helps me so much. I wanna come back and help other people. And so she was feeling around, but because she had felt me and other people feel her baby's head, she we had quite a few that particular day, and so she she felt, you know, just above the pubic bone. And she's like, I think I saw something hard. I don't know what it is. Is it a head? You know, these moments where and then, of course, the mother is all excited. And and then for me, I'm like, we're returning birth to the community.
Speaker 3
That is my deepest prayer.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Mine too. Not not returning another professional to the community. Returning birth to the community. And of course of course, some things become, medical or whatever. And of of course, these things are and they can and they can actually happen in the moment of of a village prenatal. We've had a time where a mom went to the bathroom and she's like, oh my god. I'm bleeding. Or, you know, or another mother who we are feeling head down, head down, head down, and whoop, deserves it's not head down. Mhmm. You know, things can happen even at a village prenatal that require a lot of skill to re remind everyone present that we are not her care provider. She has a care provider. They will decide what to do.
Speaker 3
Even if that care provider is is is her. Right?
Speaker 1
If it is, then even she will decide, do I wanna talk to somebody? Do I wanna just handle this myself? You know, she'll decide what she wants to do with them. And in the case of the one with the the breach, she actually said, I know my baby. She is a girl, and she is stubborn like me. She is gonna turn. It will probably be the last minute, but she's gonna do it. And she said, but meanwhile, does anybody have any tricks of the trade? Mhmm. Well, fine. We just opened it up. Did did anybody ever have a baby in a breech position? And they want some tricks of the trade, and we shared those just for fun. It just has to stay really a good boundaries between a story and sharing and not withholding our story and our wisdom without telling other people what to do. Care providers responsible for giving advice and guidance and blah, you know, is a very different boundary.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
That would be a group prenatal.
Speaker 3
Right. And I think the only other question in in my heart at this point, that I know people would love to hear is, not to put you on the spot, but if you if you would be willing to share, the two songs that you referenced, you know, and as you know, we are just so many communities of women have become songless, you know, and we don't we you know, I wouldn't know right now if I had a group of women come over. I wouldn't know a song to sing, and I think that is so deeply important in bringing back, you know, the feminine and bringing back the womanhood to to birth into these spaces as to return to, like you said, to the drumming or the dancing and the touching and the, celebrating and the songs. And so, that was a big piece in our podcast that we did last year of of that's something women reference to me a lot is just a little snippet of a song that you sang that that touched so many women. So, I don't know if that's putting you on the spot to ask if you could share a little bit of those songs so that we we can have something to carry into the circles if if women that are starting to don't have any songs to share.
Speaker 1
Oh, sure. I'll be happy to. It it's it's deeply in my heart to keep spreading the the spiral and the circle outward and upward. And so if there's anything that can be helpful. And, yeah, I mean, for the women, like, when their eyes are closed and often I have them interlace their arms, like, they'll sit with their they're sitting down, of course, on cushions or whatever, with their backs to each other. So they make a circle, if there's, like, four or five or ten of them. And then I have them interlace their, arms, you know, like they're, like they're gonna be walking down the street only now they're in the circle. And and I have them close their eyes and we sing to them. Oh, of course, we sing throughout the whole thing, but, but I know that they tell me often that those songs resonate and they're or maybe they even them or sing them in their labor. And one who's now pregnant with her second baby, has used them as a lullaby to her first baby. Mhmm. And now they're they're, of course, singing them to her womb baby, as a family. But okay. One of our favorites is, wild woman mother, midwife and healer. Actually, I am wearing a t shirt right now from my fire knitting as we talk, that is from Saint Petersburg, and we did a conference called wild woman, mother, midwife, and healer. And this this chant and song was written by Janine Parvati Baker, and so it's a treasure to to all of us to all of us women. I am not a professional singer, but babies don't care. Wild woman, mother, midwife, and healer. Actually, will you join me?
Speaker 3
Sure. But I don't know the I don't know the word.
Speaker 1
Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna sing it a couple of times, and then you you join the refrain and keep singing and then I'm gonna sing I mean, you join the chorus, keep singing and I'll sing, the refrain over the top of it and then you'll get a feel for what the circle feels like because we're usually circling and, stomp dancing Mhmm. As in this around around the, pregnant women. Okay. We'll do it together. Wild woman mother, midwife and healer, wild woman mother, midwife and healer, wild woman mother, midwife and healer. Join me. We will give birth. Midwife and healer. You know, we will give birth. I want
Speaker 3
wife and healer.
Speaker 1
We will give birth. The one to Midwives and We will give birth. I want to be wild woman, old woman mother, midwife and healer, wild woman mother, midwife and healer. Yeah. That's one of them.
Speaker 3
So you were saying on the the what were what were you saying when I was saying wild woman mother?
Speaker 1
While you while while someone keeps that, rhythm going, then, me or somebody else thinks over the top of that, we will give birth, I want you to see. We will give birth, I want you to hear. We will give birth, I want you to know. We will give birth. I want you to be. And then she back in.
Speaker 3
It's gorgeous. Right before I gave birth, a woman and I'm her name is escaping me, but she is a friend of yours and went to a village prenatal of yours. And right before I went into labor, she emailed me and said that you guys dang for me or or or she did or something, and she sent me those words. And I printed them out, and I had it on my counter next to my candles. And, you know, the counter kinda became a big part of my labor, and I looked at those words for so long, and so I'm I'm grateful that you're bringing it back into my into my consciousness because I know it sound as familiar.
Speaker 1
And now the tune. Another one that we sing is precious child of the universe, come on through. Come on through. Precious child of the universe, come on through. Come on through. It is just a tiny trip you can do. You can do. It is just a tiny trip you can do. You can do. So stretch your little toes and wag your little head. Your mama wants to nurse you in her snuggie wuggie bed. Precious child of the universe, come on through. Come on through. And we We sing it over and over and over again.
Speaker 3
Right. It's so good.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. It doesn't
Speaker 3
get weird.
Speaker 1
Most of them are all made up by us, but the other one, Wild Woman, was made by Janine Parvati Baker.
Speaker 3
Beautiful. So good.
Speaker 1
I'll try one other one that we sing often, and you'll see if it is good for you. Send down your roots. Send down your roots. Each pearly toe and each tiny foot. Mother Earth on whom you'll run lifts you up as we set you down, lifts you up as we set you down. Sit down your feet. Sit down your feet. Perfect child, neat and complete. Let the sunshine warm your days. Let the moon shine light your way. Let the moon shine light your way. Big belly moon, big bellied moon, call to your daughter safe in my room. When the time is right and best, Call her out to my milky breast. Call her out to my milky breast.
Speaker 3
I love that one. Mhmm. You gotta make a you gotta make an album.
Speaker 1
Who are the witches? Where do they come from? Maybe your great fate. Grandmother
Speaker 3
the wise one.
Speaker 1
Witches are wise, wise women, they say. And there's a little witch in every woman. To date. Oh, well, I was seeing that one, of course.
Speaker 3
Yes. That's a classic. Mhmm. Mhmm. Awesome.
Speaker 1
Well, I think this I hope this has been helpful, Emily.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. It really has. I'm really grateful for your time. It's nice to reconnect, and then I'm gonna try my hand at making a little downloadable guide, and I'll send it to you to review and and tell me what you think before we put it out there.
Speaker 1
Sure. Okay, my dear. Well, be well and enjoy your motherhood and that sweet child.
Speaker 3
Thank you. I am very much.
Speaker 1
I know you are, and great work in the world. So halo of light all around you. Thank you, sister. Mhmm. Bless the bee. Thank you. Take care. Bye.
Speaker 2
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
