Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea. So, Emily yes, Katya?
Speaker 2
Our mother loving retreat is happening. Are we excited?
Speaker 1
Ugh. Beyond excited. The countdown is on February third through tenth twenty twenty, baby. I also love that it's a full moon.
Speaker 3
And I love where we'll be. It's the most epic fifteen cabana eco lodge overlooking the ocean right here in beautiful Dominican Republic.
Speaker 1
Tell me there's an infinity pool. Yep. And amazing food? What about endless tropical fruit and beach time?
Speaker 3
Oh, yes. And don't forget that while we're there, humpback whales come to birth their their babies in Samana Bay right where we'll be.
Speaker 4
Oh my gosh. What should we do the rest of the time?
Speaker 3
How about nourishing yoga and transformational workshops and dancing, drumming, connecting with mama Earth?
Speaker 1
Oh, so good. And the group of women who've already
Speaker 4
signed up are incredible. So what else?
Speaker 1
A bunch of surprises and gifts. Like what? Like a yummy massage for every woman. Okay. What else? I'm not telling. Everyone loves surprises. Mother lovin Without the g. Retreat dot com.
Speaker 4
Today, I sit down with Christie from Australia who surprised me Christie was unfortunately whisked away to the hospital, Christie was unfortunately whisked away to the hospital when her mother called nine one one. But Christie not only birthed her daughter that day, she birthed herself into a fierce and powerful woman, a mother with a voice, and thankfully, she learned how to use it.
Speaker 2
So it was probably over three and a half years ago now, and I met my partner and, yeah, I believe in conscious conception. Like, we made a baby pretty quickly. And before that I had never planned to have kids, like I saw unhappy parents and unhappy kids and I didn't want that. And the only birth stories that I had heard was mine and my sisters from my mum and we both ended up in c sections. Wow. Yeah, and I knew that I didn't want that. So when I fell pregnant, I just felt so unprepared. Like, yeah, I didn't know what to do. I'd never thought about it before, so Yeah. It kind of came to a shock to me even though we had planned it. Yeah. I didn't know what else to do, so I just went to the doctor. Totally. And, so then they put me into the system, into the hospital, and I just went straight into appointments. And I knew that's where I didn't wanna be, but I wasn't sure what else to do at the time. So I started looking into home births in my hometown and with private midwives, and there was nothing in my area. The only there was one private midwife and she could only come to the hospital with me. But through my appointments, I had different midwives every time. Like, I would say natural birth and I just felt like that was taken as a joke, like then they just say oh yeah we do that but also like you probably need all of these other things that I didn't believe in.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So but I did look on her Facebook page, this private midwife, and straightaway, she pushed things that I didn't believe in. And I think it's a blessing in disguise now, but I just wrote her off completely from there. So I kept going to my appointments at the hospital, and, yeah, I just felt like I was on a conveyor belt through a factory, like, just, yeah. It I, like, didn't like being at the hospital. I felt nervous and anxious the whole time. Like, my whole pregnancy, I was had morning sickness up until thirty weeks.
Speaker 1
So it
Speaker 2
was it was really hard and hard for me to go to those appointments. And then I would come home and build myself back up again because I had, like, a really good pregnancy besides the morning sickness. And they still made me worry the whole time. Like, they were trying to find things wrong with me and my baby, and there wasn't. But I still felt so stressed, but also my mum works at the hospital in admin and so I felt like there was no way for me to get out of going to the appointments without causing, like, a lot of extra worry. So but I would like sit in my car before the appointment and just think imagine if I could just be pregnant like that's it, like just be pregnant and like it's at the time it felt so like, that wasn't possible, but it totally was.
Speaker 1
So sad.
Speaker 2
I know. I can't wait for next time. Like, it's gonna be so different.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, you you found your way, you know, and and it really speaks to the truth or the what is the right word? Like, the fierceness and the intuition that women hold about birth because like you started off saying, you really didn't know much about it. You knew your own birth stories, which were surgical for whatever reasons. And yet, there was this thing in you that was like no. Even though literally your entire sphere is saying yes. I mean, it just it never ceases to amaze me how authentic because, duh, we're mammals and, you know, birthing is actually, shocker, normal and natural. So, you know, it is our animal nature to align with what you eventually do. But it just never it never doesn't amaze me how even in deep in the system, like everything you just described, there still is that voice that's like, no. There's something else.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I still I just had this, like, even though yeah. I never, excuse me, I never ended up voicing my, like, intention for my birth. And I kind of just kind of disagreed with everyone around me and pretended, like, because I didn't wanna cause any confrontation. But deep down, I was like, I'm the only one that is can do what's right for my baby. Like, no one loves my baby more than I do. Mhmm. So I just had this, like, really strong like, I had to protect her. So I would go home because I couldn't work because I was really sick, so every day I was just researching. And so if I was told, like, this intervention is necessary, I would go home and read why it wasn't necessary. And it was so confronting to me, like, I started it started to get me down. Like, I would also hear stories, my friends that had had babies and they're, like, they didn't think their stories were horrible, like, from the hospital, but to me they sounded like that's not what I wanted. Mhmm. And it was hard for me to hear, so I would always, yeah, research why if that was necessary or not, and then I'd find out, like, I'm not doing that, and I'd tell my partner. And, yeah, he just agreed with everything I said and this eventually I think the last straw for me was, I read a story, a mum's story about the baby being born and them cutting the cord for, you know, complications and taking the baby away and, like, that's just so detrimental to the baby's well-being and life. And I was just like, that's I'm safer at home. Like, there's no way I'm giving birth at the hospital. Yeah. And then I looked I tried to look for support. So before that I was looking for natural, like birthing groups, natural birthing hospital groups. And while I was looking for that, I found some unassisted groups and I saw women's stories or just like photos and they've just had a baby and they just like post their story up and I was like woah like that's it, like they just pop a baby at home, like,
Speaker 1
and it's That's not tall. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. That was so unreal to me at the time. Like, I just and I even thought, like, that's amazing, but I don't think I can do that. But, yeah, then I saw and then I read that story and then I also watched some birth stories online and there was a few that were a bit unsettling and then I saw a woman standing up birthing, catching a baby by herself, and I was like, if I have to do that to protect my baby, I will do that. Like and so
Speaker 1
Plus you gotta admit there's a party that's like, that's badass.
Speaker 2
That is so badass. Like, I was so impressed.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that was, like, a game changer for me.
Speaker 1
So how pregnant are you at that point?
Speaker 2
I was yeah. I was pretty I was getting up there by then probably like a few maybe like a month or two off and so I still continued going to my appointments. And my very last appointment was supposed to be with a midwife on my due date, and it was with a male obstetrician. And he started talking about booking me in for an induction and all these crazy things and I was just like, no. That I like decided then, like, that's my last time there, I'm not going back. And so I didn't but even when I was at home with my partner, like, I felt like I couldn't just say, you know, it's my first time making a baby, I'd never had a baby, so everyone around me was telling me, like, how they've had a baby and it has to be, you know, assisted at hospital, like, there's gonna be these problems and blah blah blah and, like, I felt like it was like who am I to say no? Like, that's not gonna be the case with me. Like, I don't know. Like, I've never had a baby. So I never voiced that, like, I'm gonna free this. But in the back of my mind Go ahead. I knew that's I was gonna stay at home. And knowing that the plan was just gonna be you and your partner? Yeah. I had looked into what my other options were. There was no doulas in my area. And, there was, like, I found, like, a group I don't know. I didn't really look too far into it. There was, like, a midwife in about three and a half hours away, and I would have had to travel to all my appointments and I was too sick to do that. And then I would have yeah. I would have had to rent around that whole time and then birth there.
Speaker 1
And Oh, she wouldn't have come to your area.
Speaker 2
No. I just felt like that was too much for me, someone I didn't even know.
Speaker 1
Right. And it
Speaker 2
it just didn't resonate. Like, I was just like like, I never was like, oh, I'm gonna free Beth, but I was never like I was just like, I don't need that. So, yeah, it got to I was forty weeks and two days and I was living so I was living on my mum's property, my partner and I, we have a self contained unit that is still on my mum's property, so my mum was around and I tried to have little discussions with her about just the way I want my birth, if I was to go to the hospital. And my point was never getting across, and it just felt like I couldn't tell her then untell her. So to protect my baby and me in our space, I just couldn't tell her that, you know, I wanted to stay at home. So, Did did anybody know besides your man? No. Just my partner and
Speaker 1
I. Wow.
Speaker 2
Like, I think I talked to one friend and I was like, you know, everyone was always like, when are you gonna pack your hospital bag? And I was like, yeah, when I feel like it's necessary. And I think I said to a friend, like, I I just feel like I don't wanna go there. Like, it's I don't feel like I wanna birth in that space. Like, I always feel anxious and sweaty and nervous there. Like, that's not a place to have a baby. Like, nothing's wrong with me. Yeah. So, yeah, it was forty weeks and two days and, my partner, Ando, he had said the whole time that that was the day that our daughter was gonna arrive. Oh. Yeah. Which is pretty cool. But I was in complete denial the whole the whole time. Like, I was like, I'm probably gonna go, like, two weeks over, and it's probably gonna be, like, a really long birth. So I just wanted to be prepared for everything because I'd heard those stories and how they go bad. So I just wanted to be prepared for all of that. So, yeah, I woke up at two AM that morning with, like, really sharp pains and I've been having, like, tiny practice contractions, so I didn't really think anything of it. And then I woke back up at, like, about six o'clock, and everything felt really tight, and I felt, like, kind of sick. And by that time, I hadn't been sick anymore, so it was.
Speaker 1
You hadn't been sick for five minutes?
Speaker 2
Yeah. For, like, a couple weeks, and I was just like, oh. Like, no. It's back. I know. But, yeah. So Andrew was like, today's the day. And I was like, yeah. Whatever. Like Mhmm. He's like, I'll see you soon, and he went to work. Okay. So, yeah, I went and had a shower and, yeah, I had, like, a loose bowel movement, like, everything was obviously happening, but I was like, no. I'm just like my tummy's tight, but I sat in the shower for probably, like, two hours or something like and then Yeah. You're not in labor.
Speaker 1
No. I was like in the showers.
Speaker 2
Exactly. I was like, it could stop at any time and, like, start in another day. So but, yeah, then I came back to my room and, I threw up. Oh. Everything was starting to happen. So Quickly. Yeah. It did happen really quickly. And so I was like, I think I timed my contractions and they were like almost a minute long and two minutes apart and I was like is this like is this actual labour? And I actually that's when I texted a friend who I know had like a fairly natural birth, and I asked her like, when did you know they were like proper contractions? So then I think I admitted to myself then like I'm in labor.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'd say pooping, throwing up, and strong back to back contractions is labor.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, what other signs can you get?
Speaker 1
So, yeah,
Speaker 2
I was, like, I was vacuuming and just, like, walking around and trying to just I just felt like walking around and, like, listening music and stuff, but they started to get very intense. So I was, laboring and leaning over the end of my bed, and my little Chihuahua was there, like, trying to reassure me that I'm on a ride. Cute. Yeah. And, then I had to, like, lean on the fridge. I needed to, like, bear down on something kind of. So I was like, okay. It's time to call my partner. And by that time, it was eleven o'clock and I could, like, hardly talk. Like, I didn't realize Wow. How far along I was.
Speaker 1
Wait. You mean eleven in the morning? Yeah. Wow. And he had just left
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Like, a couple of hours.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Only at, like, six o'clock, so not that long. Yeah. That's bad. And I had yeah. And because I told him then, like, no. It's not today. Totally. And so he got home in half an hour, and yeah, everything just started moving really quickly everything was like really intense like big waves and I don't really even straight after my birth, I didn't remember very much like it all went really quickly and I think Yeah, like I had my bloody show we went to the shower and then I lost my mucus plug and then I just stayed in the shower and my mum had come home at one point and she had come into the room and, you know, I understand why she has fears around birth, but she brought those fears into my space. And so I just asked her I just said, like, you know, we've got this, like, when my water breaks and I really feel like I need to go to hospital, we will. Like
Speaker 1
Oh my god. If she comes in and you're still kind of playing the facade that you're gonna go
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And then just kinda try to get her out.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Because I there was, like, at the time in that situation, there wasn't another I didn't see another way. Like, so, yeah, that's just what I felt like. That's what I had to do.
Speaker 1
Totally. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so, yeah, I was in the shower and I think my mom and my sister came down again at one point. But, yeah, it was kind of the same thing. Like, I'm like, oh, it's cool. Like but by this time, like, I
Speaker 1
was labor blah. Literally, like They're bearing down on the fridge.
Speaker 2
Literally, like, they would leave, and then I'd get a contraction. And I was like so I was in the shower at this point, and I was leaning over a big exercise ball. And I never thought I would make those, like, big animalistic sounds. Like, I hear women say that all the time, but that's what I was like. Like, yeah, like, big loud, like, minds. And, yeah, because everything was so intense. So I was leaning over the ball, and I had the water from the shower going on my back and it felt so good. And but I felt like my contractions between my contractions, I was resting for, like, five or ten minutes, but ando was like no, they were like thirty seconds like oh my gosh Yeah, so it was really intense for me, but I was kind of like I don't know like in and out of like consciousness kind of thing like but I needed that to get through it. Like, I needed all those endorphins and everything to, yeah, get me through.
Speaker 1
Totally. I
Speaker 2
was like such a yeah.
Speaker 1
And You were able to just, like, get high and drop in and let it happen.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. That's totally what it was like. So, yeah, I was going through contractions, and everything was so intense, like, I couldn't even talk. Like, I wouldn't have been able to advocate, like, what I needed from every anyone. Like, my partner was so amazing. Like, he was just there when I needed him. Like, he didn't even need to speak. Like, he was just there for me, and he trusted me. Yeah. I'm so grateful for that.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. That's huge. Yeah. So did at any point, did you like, was there any part of your brain that was even tempted to think about going to the hospital?
Speaker 2
No. I think when I started I think at one point after my mom came in, ando said to me like Are you sure we shouldn't go to the hospital? Like I think he was, you know, he felt responsible and he was kind of worried about Like cutting the cord which is now like not a big deal at all But everyone everyone thinks It's like
Speaker 1
literally the easiest part of a birth at home. Yeah. But every time people are like, but what about the cord? And it really speaks to the ritual that somebody has to do it. Like, this whole ritual that we see in movies of cutting the cord, and now we, you know, obviously know that it's, like, so
Speaker 2
simple. Totally. It's pretty funny now.
Speaker 1
So your mom comes back a second time and is, like, trying to convince you to go, essentially?
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I guess I just reassured her, like, oh, the contractions aren't that bad. I will go to the hospital when I feel I need to, like, when I'll tell you when my waters break. And then, yeah, Endo had my mum had left and Endo had said, like, oh, are you sure we shouldn't go to the hospital? And I was just like, no. Like, I could barely talk. I wasn't moving.
Speaker 1
Like Can you imagine getting in a car?
Speaker 2
It would be the worst. Like, it was just so hard. Like, I don't know how people do it. But yeah. So, we're in the shower and I think I started, like there was one second where I'm like, I'm shit at this, I'm so shit at this, I kept saying it over and over and what's that called? Like transition? Uh-huh. Because, like, straight after that, like, I don't know when it ended. I don't know how long it went for. But then it was just, like, I could feel the head. And I couldn't even speak to tell Ando, like, everything just happened so fast.
Speaker 1
Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know, like the ring of fire and everything, like, it was so intense. But I swear, like, the next contraction, her head came out and then she just followed out. And I remember, like, watching her, like, little body twist and, like, she knew what to do. Like, she just came straight out and endo caught her because I was, like, in this other world. Like, I was yeah. So he caught her and we turned the shower off and we were just, like, in this little bubble. Like, I just remember being, like, oh my god, like, crying and she's so perfect. And I felt like I had pictured that exact birth the whole time like I pictured how perfect and healthy she would be and I pictured that birth the whole time. So yeah, it was exactly how I imagined but then yeah. So we're in a little bubble, but then, so my mom heard her cry for a little bit, and then my mom came down on the phone. And so I kind of had to Wait. Wait. What do
Speaker 1
you mean? She came down on the phone?
Speaker 2
Well, yes. So she, like well, I can't, like, remember everything so clearly, but she heard Willow cry. And I don't know if she came down and got her phone, but all I remember is seeing her with the phone on she was on the phone to the ambulance. Oh, shit. Yeah. And so I thought that I would have, you know, like, look what I've done. Like, I thought I'd be able to, you know, talk to her first, but I understand, like, she was a nurse before and she had seen traumatic things. So I understand, like, she was worried. But, yeah, the ambulance came, like, pretty quickly, and we didn't even like, we quickly snapped some photos, but we didn't really even get, like because it was just Ando and I, like, we didn't really even get like, we got a couple of photos before they came, and then I just felt our space was violated. Yeah. And, like, they were all, like, younger and they were all excited because they hadn't even seen a birth before.
Speaker 1
Oh Oh my god.
Speaker 2
And so then they're, like, coming in like, oh, we gotta cut the cord now. And I was like, no, that's not happening. So they had to, like, ring someone and ask permission. And I didn't wanna go. And I said, like, I don't wanna go. And I know that I like, especially now I know that I had a choice, but at the time, I just felt so vulnerable. Yeah. And so and I felt like, you know, I had my baby. The cord wasn't cut, so I felt, like, kind of in control. So, yeah, I just didn't know how to get out of that, so I ended up going with them. So, like, they took me in the ambulance to the hospital.
Speaker 1
Did you get to stay with the baby?
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I didn't let them cut the cord, and I just had her. Like, I was like, I'm holding on to my baby.
Speaker 1
But your placenta is still inside. Yeah. Damn. That is so fucking dangerous. It just, like, infuriates me that that this is not not you, obviously, not
Speaker 2
your story.
Speaker 1
But just how dangerous it is to disrupt that that moment that, you know, that hour, that time frame before the placenta has released. Ugh.
Speaker 2
Yep. I'm so sorry. My placenta took ages
Speaker 1
to cover. It did. Of course, it did. It wouldn't have if you had stayed. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Oh, no.
Speaker 1
Your whole body went.
Speaker 2
And people say, like, oh, you have to go to hospital, but it's like, I would have been so much better to continue staying at home. But, yeah, everything went it went as good as it could go. So we went there and they sat me on this potty thing in this big bright room. I had, like, blood everywhere. I was still holding my baby and they just put a towel around me and all these midwives with really bad attitudes were like standing there like had their hands on their hips like staring at me. Oh my god, and I had said that So my daughter was born at one thirty. So my labour I just say six hours, but it was probably a bit longer. But when I got to the hospital, I said, you know, my labour was so quick. It was, like, two hours long. We didn't have time to go. Mhmm. And she just, like, came out. And even then, they still treated me they treated me like I did something wrong. They treated me basically like a criminal. And You did do something wrong
Speaker 1
in their mind. You know? Like, you're a bad bad girl. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, I have the perfect outcome. Like, I had a perfect birth, a perfect baby.
Speaker 1
And Now that you having that actually makes them not needed. You know? So it's it's, like, symbolic. I mean, the it there's no celebration at the hospital
Speaker 2
for
Speaker 1
for you having the perfect normal birth at home. You know? That that erases, you know, and it and it reveals the lie that you should have been there. You you know. So and and of course, it's of course, you're not welcomed, you know, in this I just I could so see that image of the midwife standing around, you know, and you're, like, holding your sweet new baby and you're dissenting, you know, you're you're dissenting and you're you're not playing the good girl by not giving the baby over, by not letting them cut the cord, by not letting them pull the placenta out. I mean, all of this stuff is just, like, for you to be a fiercely protective and intuitive woman and mother is wrong. It is bad.
Speaker 2
Yeah. They didn't like it. Of course. It's it sucks. And, so, yeah, they were there telling me, like, your placenta needs to come out because, like, all of these things, and then you'll need surgery. So Correct. Right. Eventually I mean, like, because I had a baby, but I can't get my placenta up by myself. So, the cord it had been ages by then, like, a few hours. So the cord was white. So my partner cut the cord, and he was with the baby, and I went to the shower to so I could birth my placenta. And literally every five minutes someone would come in and tell me that I needed like an intervention. And I was just like, just give me like five more minutes, and I come back and eventually my partner just tell them to leave me alone. Like, just give me some space. And as soon as that happened, my placenta came in. Of course. I just was, like, sitting on the toilet, and it just yeah.
Speaker 1
Plopped out. And so they didn't they didn't they didn't give you Pitocin or anything?
Speaker 2
No. They tried to do all of those things, and I think with the each time rejecting, like, another intervention, it would make them angrier. Like, they were actually, like, mad at me.
Speaker 1
Wow. And I'm wondering because you started off your story with saying how you're not you're not good with confrontation, and yet, you know, the mom the mama bear in you is clearly willing to
Speaker 2
Totally.
Speaker 1
Deal with that. So when you were at the hospital and you're saying no, no, no, did you feel, like, just so terrible and, like, you were just this bad terrible girl, or or did you know that it was, you know, your your primal instincts were correct and fuck them?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Basically, like, I think birth gave me that. Like, I birthed my baby, and I knew that, like, I was the only one that could protect her. And so when, like, you know, I was there and they were mad at me for, like, having, like, a healthy baby. I was like, fuck them. Like Yeah. I'm I know what I'm doing. Like, as soon as I get my placenta out, we're going home. Like and so, yeah, they wanted to check me and stuff like that, and I was just like, no. Like, we need to go home. And so,
Speaker 1
look at you not being confrontational. That's like so hard. That's so hard. I know.
Speaker 2
You said
Speaker 1
no to that stuff and you did it.
Speaker 2
I know. And I don't know how I would have, like, I feel like it's impossible to have, like, an undisturbed birth because the way I was, like, in my bubble, like, I felt like, you know, I was on, like, a new a different level, like, you know, like, trying to, like, find my baby or something. Like, I couldn't have people talking to me and asking me questions. Like, that's the least relaxing place ever. Like, it was horrible to me. And I think that proved that with birthing my placenta at the hospital, like, it really reassured me, like, us ending up there, it really reassured me that, like, I made the right decision staying at home and I'm never going back there. So, yeah. So we were still there after I birthed my placenta and then, Endo went because we came in the ambulance, so he went back home to put the car seat in the car Oh, right. Bring it to the hospital. And in that time, they wanted, like, an obstetrician to come check the baby, but she just came in and lectured me about things that I, you know, rejected and, yeah, no one checked my baby. The only thing they did to her was a nurse clamped her cord and, like, right near her belly button and they did it too tight and she ended up having, like, this little. Hemorrhage type thing which yeah, which eventually it just dried off and fell off but they were so rough with her like that's all they did and I even feel bad about that. Yeah, and so where we went straight home and we went straight back into our like little love bubble. Like, we're just so I was like so proud of what we did like us and like, we just went to bed and Stared at our baby like our perfect sleeping baby and we were like, what do we do now? Like totally, is that it? And my little dog like, my mum had when I was in labour at home My mum had taken her away and I didn't notice. So when I got home, like, she thought she didn't know what had happened to me. Like, she thought something really horrible had happened. So came back with the baby and she was, like, so excited to see that I was okay and see a little baby. And, yeah, we just stayed at home and, yeah, I feel like it was a like, I wish that I hadn't ended up at the hospital at the end, but it was also, like, that reassured me that we did the right thing.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I have to ask, how angry at your mom were you?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I I did feel betrayed, And I do have, like I still have anger in there from not, like, bringing it up because I still feel like it wouldn't be resolved.
Speaker 1
Wait. So then you never talked you never talked about it?
Speaker 2
No. I'm like, I know that I need to, but I've tried to have little conversations. And even, like, you know, like, next time, like, I'm having, like, an unassisted pregnancy and everything, and then it's like, no. You're not blah blah blah. So, Yeah, I just feel like at the moment Like I can only deal with what I can control and I can't control her thoughts, but yeah, I do I did feel really betrayed and because I did think that I would be able to you know, should be able to see that I could have a birth by myself. I could have a healthy baby. Like, my body is made for it, and I would kind of see I did think that people would see it from that point of view. Like, I thought my mom would, you know, understand and talk to me first. Yeah. You
Speaker 1
know, she's treating you like like a five year old and that she was still in charge of you. It's super, super disrespectful. And and, you know, if well, first, I also wanted to ask, was do you still live on her land?
Speaker 2
Yeah. We do at the moment. We're going to we're building a van at the moment. We're gonna go travel around Australia, so we are going to, yeah, move out of the space soon. But I think this because we invested in building a unit on her property, which was a really good thing for us because I was sick throughout my whole pregnancy, which I couldn't work. But, yeah, it was a really hard situation to be in because, yeah, I had to make lots of choices, you know, to not tell her things. And, yeah, it was really hard, like, yeah, to navigate that.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it sounds like it kind of still is. Like, could you imagine? I mean, you and I both have young daughters, and I just I can't imagine, like, being that kind of mom. And I'm sure she's a wonderful mom. You know? I'm sure that there are a million wonderful things. But that Yeah. Piece that separates a mother from her daughter, that overbearing, disrespectful, fear based, fear mongering, not listening energy, you know, and it's something that I hear all the time. I mean, just today, a woman in our membership, was saying that she's free birthing and, her mother told her that if she does that, she's calling CPS and she will have social workers and social services at her door, which there's nothing illegal about making these choices and so Yeah. You know, whatever. But just wow, like, what to to not lift our daughters up in in their choices. It's so sad that that thing is so broken, you know, because, you know, it's it's everything.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It is broken because, like, I do imagine, like, if I did have my mom's support and she had all the right intentions but fear overrode everything like she still believes that with me and my sister like she had really long labors with interventions and which led to so she still believes that we got stuck and c sections saved her baby and her life.
Speaker 1
That's the thing that's so interesting that we need to be so responsible with how we pass on stories to our children because, you know, that's just a story. Right?
Speaker 2
And she's
Speaker 1
still to this day as as an elder, she's still trying to pass that story onto you guys and and have you guys essentially recreate the same story. And, you know, we're not targeting her. This is this is a symbol for tons of moms and dads that I hear this story about. And just, you know, it's it's like you said, it's fear based, and it's really it's really irresponsible because it doesn't let your kids create new stories and create better stories, which ultimately isn't that what you want,
Speaker 2
you know, to have
Speaker 1
better stories and a better experience, whether it be with birth or marriage or whatever. I I mean, I don't even know if I would say she had the best intentions. Like, I don't know. You know? It's pretty
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
It's pretty, that's a pretty darn big deal that you have your free birth and your mom just calls nine one one. And and we have other episodes of of the same thing happening. One of our good friends, her boyfriend, you know, she's pushing in her bathroom, and her boyfriend calls nine one one, and they whisk her away, you know. And Yeah. The baby was still inside her. It's just
Speaker 2
so crazy. It's so hard to hear, like
Speaker 1
So what are you gonna do with your next whenever this whenever your other kiddo comes along, are you just gonna, like, hide your pregnancy? Like, what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2
I kind of feel like that, but then in another way, like, I really wanna, like, voice it from the start because because I never, said, like, during my pregnancy, I never said that I was gonna have a free birth. And then even after my free birth, I kind of got treated like a child. I got treated like I did everything wrong. So even up until now, it's been really hard for me to say my story without feeling nervous or, like, having a lot of emotion. And I really wanna, like, you know, do my story justice. So it's even now it's, like, still really hard to speak my truth about it. So I think I wanna start from the start and be like because I've already said to my mom, like, whether you like it or not, like, I'm having an unassisted pregnancy and an unassisted birth. Like, that's happening. And if I'm not supported, I'm going to fuck, like, go somewhere else.
Speaker 1
Well, you're you're not supported.
Speaker 2
Yep. You already know that. So, yeah, I'll go somewhere else.
Speaker 1
You already know that. Now now does that mean that, you know, she could never change? Of course not. We hear about, you know, we hear about people shifting into support all the time. It makes it makes me think of, you know, children coming out of the closet and saying that they're gay. You know, it's it's so common, unfortunately, that parents, you know, don't know what to do with that and they're unsupportive. And then classically, I mean, I've seen this so often and heard so many friends' stories of then the the adult, the or or the or the teenager, whatever, the child, you know, cuts them out. And they're like, cool. Like, if you can't love me and see me and accept me, then peace. And so then the parents like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you know, and then figures out how to reacclimate. And, you know, I see it with free birth too, whether it's with a partner or with, or with a parent or or with a sister, you know, this this and and you're already on to it that the first step is for you to really claim it. And, you know, and that's where I I kind of wanna just throw this out there for you that, just as something to chew on, you know, that it doesn't it doesn't need to actually start with your next pregnancy. It can start today. It can start tomorrow. You know? I'm wondering if you've ever told your mom that this was an intentional free birth.
Speaker 2
I think she knows me. She knows how, like, strong willed I am, and so she does.
Speaker 1
But you've never, like, said, hey, by the way.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I just haven't I just kind of haven't bothered with the conversation because there's so much fear there that it always just ends up in me not getting anywhere and it ended up being in a fight. And I think like you said before, I think, yeah, sometimes you just have to, you know, shut that down, especially, like, for your birth space. You can't have that in your birth space and just find support somewhere else. And that's why I think it's so important that you've made this platform for us to share our stories because the thing that changed everything for me was seeing, mum birth her baby and, like, hearing those stories that, you know, we will do whatever it takes to protect our babies. And, yeah, it sucks that in this society that we can't even find support with our families. Mhmm. Yeah. We just yeah. Women are so strong and powerful. They'll protect their babies and make it happen.
Speaker 1
And, I mean, that kind of brings it full circle to your mom's experience, right, that she was just trying to protect her baby in her own, you know, in her own fear based, you know, delusion of how she was raised about birth and how she was, you know, told about her own birth and that she's, you know, sadly living with a story that, is almost for sure not true, you know, that
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
That her life was saved by surgery. And, you know, as we already know, that's extremely actually quite rare.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I can see the cracks in the story of where they intervened and, you know, why they needed eventually to have a c section because you hear that all the time.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So yeah. Totally.
Speaker 1
Man, that is an interesting turn of events. Damn. I know.
Speaker 2
I actually I do feel mad for my birth story that it went that way. Like, I do I do, like, hear of, like, there was a podcast. Alex was on this podcast and she, like, you know, she had her, dog as a midwife in Oh, yeah. People know that. In, like, a tent.
Speaker 1
In a year.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'm like, that would be the ultimate. Like but, yeah, I had to go through a journey
Speaker 1
Your chihuahua is licking your blood, licking your nipples. Yeah.
Speaker 2
She was my little midwife. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I had to go through a whole different process of, like, my pregnancy leading up to get me to where, yeah, I ended up fee birthing.
Speaker 1
Well, right. I mean, you didn't you were not in a in a culture slash family where you felt safe and supported to fully claim your choices. And, you know, I love the fierceness in you that you did it anyway, and that's really, really hard. And it's kind of cracking me up that you started this episode saying that you're nonconfrontational because you actually did something quite confrontational.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Because I had to. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Because it was your truth and because it's it's a a beautiful, beautiful, self protective way to, you know, have your baby. Absolutely.
Speaker 2
I didn't, like, try to have those conversations where I would tell her why I didn't wanna be at the hospital and, like, how, like, there was a different midwife any every time and no one would listen to me when I would say I wanted even a natural birth. And so, yeah, I did try to tell her how unsupported I felt and so she in the end she did know that I birthed at home on purpose and she was actually mad at me, like she kind of felt like I did that to her, like I stressed her and so that's why it's been hard for me to bring up that conversation and you're right, I do need to respectfully and put everything out there, like I have said to her that next time I won't be going yeah. Like you said, I should say, I won't be going through the system.
Speaker 1
You guys don't have to agree. She's not your partner. Right? It's totally different if your partner and you were at odds. Like, that's really challenging.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
You know, and thankfully, it's not. You know, it it it's complicated with this situation because you live on her land, so you're obviously quite inter interwoven. And and a birth and a pregnancy are pretty much impossible to hide if you're living on the same property. Yeah. You know, but you also can I mean, I know women who have cut, not that I'm suggesting this, but I do know women who have said, you know, I love you mom, and I'll call you when the baby's here because I'm not doing this? I'm not I don't need to defend myself. I don't need to tell you a thousand reasons why I don't feel safe there. Like, at the end of the day, you know, if if you love me and trust me and respect me, like, then we don't actually need to talk about this.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's kind of where I feel where my points aren't getting across, and that's kind of where I feel like I'm at. But, yeah, I will gauge it, and it would ideally, it would be, you know, be nice to be able to put everything out there and be like, you know, I know you don't believe, you know, in what I'm saying, but this is what's happening. Like yeah.
Speaker 1
It's not it's not believe. It's it's I know you don't support this.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
You know? I mean, it's not like a mythical creature. It's like you're making a choice. You know? You're making a choice, and then she's going, no. That's wrong. Well, that's fucked up. You're an adult. You're a
Speaker 2
little Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 1
And that's where the fierceness, I think, is really appropriate to be like, this is actually about respect. And if you can't see me as an adult woman, as a mother who's making, the right decisions for her family, then I don't know how to be close to you.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And that's not your fault. Like, your job is to have boundaries and boundaries are love. You know? They really are. And so because otherwise, you're gonna stay in that weird dynamic of you still being the little girl, you know, for ever, which obviously sucks.
Speaker 2
And how can you parent a child when you're treated like a child?
Speaker 1
Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Well, that's an awesome story. And, I mean, even how you held it down at the hospital, just so much fierceness, and I can just totally picture it. Very fast labor. Wow. Yeah. It was all
Speaker 2
everything was felt so intense. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
You kicked ass, though. And so I guess So much. The last question I have for you is how particularly because you you started our conversation, you know, speaking to you being non confrontational and that you kinda kept this a secret and, you know, all of this stuff. So how having after having a free birth and, and feeling the power and the fierceness even in an unwanted transfer, how you protected your baby and yourself, how would you say that you have changed since this birth
Speaker 2
as a woman? I think that changed everything for me. It set, like, a really good standard for how I was going to be as a mother. Like, if you're being told that your body's failed you and you can't trust your instincts and all of these things and, like, it would be really hard to trust, like, your parenting style when you have a newborn baby. Like, it's really hard even, like, I felt really powerful after my birth. So I was, like, I didn't have any assistance with breastfeeding. Like, no one showed us how to my mum showed us how to change a nappy that was it and but because I felt like I just knew what to do like I just felt like yeah, I've got this like so, yeah, it's set like a really good scene, I guess, to just trust my instincts and parent the way I like, I already knew how inside.
Speaker 1
It's interesting too because you also felt and you experienced the cost of not owning your decision to free birth because your mom not knowing even further created the reality that she would then call nine one one thinking Yeah. That that was always your plan. And so you unfortunately, but, you know, life is a series of this. You felt the cost of not being in, your total truth with those around you. And so also what I'm hearing in your story is that you you learned what what can happen when you don't fully claim it and and this excitement that you do have of of really claiming it this time from out out the gates.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm definitely going to push through the uncomfortable bits this time and just put it all out there and, yeah, take charge of my story. Yeah. I think that's important. I think that I definitely learned that that's something big that I learned Mhmm. Throughout the whole, yeah, process last time.
Speaker 1
Because it is yours. It's yours. It's nobody else's. It's not your mom's. It's not some random asshole on the Internet. You know? It's your story and your baby's story, and you're not public terrain. You know? So it's yours. And and even if other people have opinions on it, it's so literally none of their business that
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
I mean, I I for better or worse, am getting a lot of experience at this.
Speaker 2
And Yeah. That would be so hard. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
It is hard, but but I'm also really having to learn to another layer of it's nobody else's fucking business, how I live
Speaker 2
my life
Speaker 1
or how my friends live their lives or how women I don't even know live their lives. You know, it's it's none of my business how you live your life and it you know, I mean, it's just when we trust women, it actually becomes really easy to get out of everybody's business. And so that's something I think a lot on is when people are really in other people's businesses, they don't trust those people. You know? They they just don't. They they think that they have to be some, like, savior or hero or, whatever, you know, little judgy asshole or whatever it is. You know? It's all different ways to be in someone else's business. But when you really trust women as kind of a blanket, you know, philosophy of life, it becomes really easy to just stay in your own business and stay out of everybody else's.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think to a degree, like, I didn't trust myself through the whole process. Like, how I said that I, you know, I'd never had a baby before, so I couldn't just say I'm gonna have a free birth, but I actually could have done that. And, like, that's what my last birth gave me is that trust in myself. Like, I know like, I know what's best for me, and I do know what's best for my baby.
Speaker 1
Totally. And that part of you that didn't trust yourself was not your authentic inner compass. The authentic inner compass in you is fierce as fuck and totally knows what you're doing, and and you actually stood by it and and were able to, you know, have this, you know, euphoric birth, you know, it's it's the the part of you that, like, doubts yourself or that felt like you couldn't claim it. I mean, that's because literally your entire life, you've been told that you're just a stupid little girl that doesn't have a voice, you know, because that's how we're all raised.
Speaker 2
I feel like we are all raised like that.
Speaker 1
For sure. And so this is this, like, beautiful evolution. It's why I love doing this podcast so much is to hear these women's stories of of just, like, shedding that and being, like, well, this is my story of how I shed that and how I am claiming, you know, myself as a powerful woman and as a intuitive mother, and that's exactly what your story represents.
Speaker 2
Thank you, Emily. It's so powerful. Thank you for having me here to share my story.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. We're long overdue. It was perfect timing, though.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, three years later. Yeah. I
Speaker 1
know. I love it. No. It's so good. I love it. I love it so much, and I'm just so thrilled for you guys that you have a
Speaker 2
Oh, thank you. And because when we booked the appointment, like, when we emailed and agreed on the appointment, I wasn't pregnant then.
Speaker 1
Right. Oh my god. This is
Speaker 2
so new. But, yeah, I'd it is the perfect time. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I think so too. I can feel it. Awesome. Well, thank you. It was so nice to connect with you.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
