Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea. Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. Gloria, to me, represents the power of women. After the staff at the hospital attempted to sabotage her first birth, Gloria demanded her epidural be turned off, and she did what she could to birth her baby her way. She left knowing she would not be back. Eight years later, Gloria finds herself pregnant with twins. She made plans to birth her children on her terms at home, and she did. At thirty four weeks, Gloria birthed her twins in her home surrounded by only her loved ones, and her second baby was born breach in the call.
Speaker 2
I remember taking, like, five pregnancy tests, just, you know, being in and on in the moment. And with my first shot, I actually thought that I wasn't able to get pregnant because we've been trying for some while and, you know, like, it just kinda never happened. And then I I actually call her my miracle child now because she kinda is. So I was remember, I was at my grandfather's house, and I took all these tests. And he was he was just like, you know, what's going on, Gloria? Why are you in the bathroom so many times? Like, what's up? What's going on? And I'm like, oh, nothing. Whatever. But, they all came back positive. I told my partner.
Speaker 3
And, You didn't tell your grandpa?
Speaker 2
I didn't tell him. No. I didn't tell him. He called me later, actually, and was like, you're pregnant, aren't you? And I was
Speaker 3
like, like, leave the test in the trash can.
Speaker 2
I didn't I didn't leave anything there. I just think he just had, like, some kind of intuition. Like, we've all we're always really, really close. So he had some kind of intuition, and he just he was like, yeah. I kinda figured. I was like, well, yeah. I am. But, immediately after, we found out, we started doing a lot of research on, you know, like, hospitals. And at that at that point, I wasn't really, I didn't know too much about doulas and midwives and anything. So I had planned to have her in a in a hospital, but I know I wanted to have I still wanted my say in what was gonna happen. So we both did our research. We found a a really great, had a really great doctor. And, actually, we're still we still communicate now, and Rain's like, my daughter is about to be eight, and we actually follow each other on Instagram. That's great. But her, yeah, she was totally fantastic. She doesn't live in the area anymore. She moved out she moved out of the state. But, whatever I wanted to try, she was with it.
Speaker 3
Nice.
Speaker 2
She gave me resources to read. She, you know, really helped me make my own decisions within my first pregnancy, with my first child, and I really appreciated that with her because Yeah. As as women, first mothers, and, like, we just don't we don't have it altogether. And even though you talk to your parents and your you know, like, my mother was there to to guide me, but I still wanna take my own decisions, within my pregnancy. So long story short, even though I had this great doctor, I end up, traveling, like, my maybe my last two weeks of pregnancy. I probably should've been staying home, but I was like, no. I can I can do this? I can I can travel? So I end up traveling back to my hometown, in Harrisburg. My daughter came early. Yeah. She didn't wanna wait for her due date. So I end up, you know, giving birth in a facility that was not my doctor No. Not my hospital. So yeah.
Speaker 3
It is far away is Harrisburg from what yeah.
Speaker 2
Harrisburg is about two and a half hours from Philly.
Speaker 3
And you couldn't, like, cross
Speaker 2
I didn't even I didn't even know what to ex I didn't know what to expect. Yeah. Like, it was just I didn't know what to expect. I know that,
Speaker 3
Wow.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was it was insane. My sister and I had, like, spent the whole day, you know, walking around. We were we're planning a second, baby shower for myself in my hometown because I had one I had one in Philly. And my friends also wanted to have one for me in my hometown. So we were doing all the shopping, doing all this cooking. I remember being so tired and exhausted by the end of the day, and I just I just laid down. And all of a sudden, I was like, wait. She doesn't feel right. Oh, no.
Speaker 3
What gestation were you at?
Speaker 2
I was full term. She was, she was, like, thirty seven thirty seven weeks, thirty eight weeks. She was so she came on April twenty second. She was due April twenty eighth.
Speaker 3
Okay.
Speaker 2
So Oh,
Speaker 3
so, yeah, you were, like, thirty nine weeks.
Speaker 2
I was yeah. I was very, very close, and I just thought, like, she'll just come on the twenty eighth. Like, she's supposed to come. Like
Speaker 3
Like a magical date. Right.
Speaker 2
Only two dates were like that. Yeah. But that's, like, the also the naivety of, you know, like, being a being a first, you know, a first mother. You don't really know these things. You know? So I just thought I could I could travel and do all these things.
Speaker 3
So what prompted what what did the beginning of labor look like? Was it, like, your water's opening? Or
Speaker 2
My water broke. Okay. So, yeah, I was laying down, and I felt, like, this pressure, this pinch in my back. And then I went to the bathroom, my water broke. Oh my god. And my sister is just like my sister had children before I have. She had I think, at that time, she had two children. This was my first this is my first child, and she was just, like, kinda ballistic even though she has her own children. I I feel like her to be more calm than I was, but she was she was not as calm as I was. So I'm just sitting on the toilet, like, could you please calm down? She's like, no. We gotta go. We gotta go. She's calling my mother. She's calling everybody. Like, we gotta go. Her water broke. I was like, okay. So we go to the hospital.
Speaker 3
Did you just go to, like, the closest ER kinda situation?
Speaker 2
Yeah. We just did. Like, Wow. We just went to the closest hospital. I called my doctor so she could, you know, fax over all the information they needed for the hospital. And, I went to Hershey Medical, Hershey Medical Center. We were there, and I I I saw my labor was so long, so I ended up seeing probably, like, three doctors over the time that I was there. The first doctor, she was black. And when I saw her, I was like, oh, yes. This is gonna be great. You know? She's gonna listen to me. Like, we're gonna we're gonna do this. But she was only there for maybe, like, maybe, like, couple hours within my labor, and she was I told her I wanted to do an all natural birth. You know, I didn't wanna be medicated. I wanted to, have my birthing ball with me. I did my birthing ball. So she was she was with it. She let me do all these things, and it was fine. And then she left. Someone else came into the room, and they weren't as flexible as she was. So it was just seeing the tension between the doctors and, like, how the energy shifted. Totally. Each time I got a new doctor, kind of, you know, like, it really scared me. Like, I was just I was very scared. My mother was there. My partner came later because he was in Philly. My sister was there. And as labor progressed, they wanted to start doing all these interventions. You know, like, you're not, you're not dilating quick enough. You're not doing this, so let's let's try this. Let's try that. And So rude. I mean, after a while, you just get you kinda get bullied. So I kinda got bullied into, you know, doing all these interventions even though they weren't they weren't within my birthing plan. But I didn't really have, like, an advocate for me to speak up.
Speaker 3
Totally.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, my mother was there. My sister was there, but they they all had medicated births. So for them, that was natural, you know, like, to have to have an epidural
Speaker 3
It was natural to be unnatural.
Speaker 2
Exactly. So, like, they were like, yeah. Go ahead and do it. You know? It's gonna be like so I end up,
Speaker 3
It's it's almost impossible to swim upstream. Mhmm. You know? It's it's really it's really almost impossible. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It is. And you just yeah. It was just not it was just not good. Yeah. I just remember it, like, this is insane.
Speaker 3
Oh.
Speaker 2
And they're telling you that your body is not doing what it's supposed to be doing and, you know, like, you you're in a position you're you're very vulnerable at that at that time.
Speaker 3
Hell yeah.
Speaker 2
So you you want the best advice. You know, you want them to be honest and open with you. But at the same time, you know, it's a business. I had done I had done all my research. I had knew what was gonna happen. Mhmm. So it kinda was like they were taking over, you know, your birthing experience. So it kinda it kinda went like that. Yeah. For
Speaker 3
sure. That's a very good way of explaining. Yeah. They take over your birthing experience.
Speaker 2
They yeah. They took over. So I got the epidural. I got the pitocin. Nothing was happening. They started saying they wanna, emergency c section because my water had broken. They were like, oh, you're you're still not dilating. It's, you know, like, it's it's taking too long. We're gonna have to, like, start prepping you for a c section.
Speaker 3
It's not emergency. Oh my god.
Speaker 2
No. It's not. I'm like, this is my first my first child, healthy. Like, there's what's the problem? What's going on? It's called impatience and more
Speaker 3
and more money for surgery.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Mhmm. So after a while, just like, I got so irritable with, you know, like, not being able to move for one because once you have an epidural, you're kinda, like, stuck to the bed. Mhmm. You can't move. I couldn't eat anything. I was only getting ice. They wouldn't they wouldn't allow you to eat. So I think I just flipped out. I was just like, turn all this stuff off. Like, just just stop all the medication. I can't like, my skin was itching. Mhmm. I was very uncomfortable. They had they had me turning every once in a while because, my daughter's heartbeat was her her heart rate was lowering, because of all the medication. Of course. So they were, you know, causing those complications within the pregnancy when there was nothing even wrong. Mhmm. Sabotage. That right. And as soon as they turn it off, I started dilating, like, right away. Within thirty minutes, I was ready to push. So That's amazing. That's amazing. Right? It was crazy. So it
Speaker 3
was amazing. Having that voice in the in the eye with the eye of the beast, you know?
Speaker 2
Like Right.
Speaker 3
That is not easy. And I've I've been through a lot of births where women get to that point that you just described, and they say the same thing, turn it off, and then they're just they just say no. They just don't do it. So that's freaking awesome that you had your voice in in such a adversarial environment.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, it was it's just it was just annoying, you know, not to not to be able to move. I think even more, I was just more I was just, like, very uncomfortable more than than anything. Like, I was just, like, this is very uncomfortable. I can't do this. They gotta turn stuff off.
Speaker 3
Dude, I know so many Yeah. So many people think an epidural is going to be you know, it's painted as this, like, get out of pain free card.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
But people don't really understand the cost of it, how you're tethered and you're numb, and then narcotics will make you itchy and shaky, and you can't be. And, like, they starve you, and so you're exhausted. And, you know, just the whole cascade is so painful. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Okay. So Exactly.
Speaker 3
So you are, like, turn it off, and then boom, your body's, like, hell yeah.
Speaker 2
Here we go. Yes. So awesome. Yeah. Right after that, she was born within, like, thirty minutes of pushing. She was she was out. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Wow. What a cool ending. How was the emergence for you? How was the treatment of her actually being born? Did you feel respected, or or was it not so good?
Speaker 2
It was, yeah, it was it was great. I mean, Hershey is a teaching hospital, so I had a lot of, you know, young people in my room. And I think at the time, you know, me being young as well, I was only in my twenties, at the time and not really not really knowing what that meant, but also I'm I'm an educator as well. So I was just like, oh, yeah. Sure. Let everybody come in. This is this is a educational experience, but at the same time, it was just like, I kinda feel very, you know, open and Wow. You know, like, this is a very, spiritual moment for me, and it just didn't feel it didn't really feel that way. And that and that was bright lights and, you know, it was just it was just not
Speaker 3
Strangers staring at your vagina? Right.
Speaker 2
Staring at my vagina. It was not what I had expected and not what you know, totally against what we were trying to do within my birthing plan. But, you know, she was there. She was healthy. I was happy. And that and then that that was all that mattered that she was there and that she was healthy, and that I was gonna be okay as well. So we were all I mean, when it was over, it was over. We were all we were all happy with with everything.
Speaker 3
And what are you gonna do with that? Right? Like, you're women are constantly put in that position where their birth is sabotaged, they don't respect their wishes about their own freaking body at all, and then a baby is born, and what are you supposed to do? It's very complicated. Like, you just gotta survive. And of course, you're stoked that your baby's here, and you're hopefully feeling very proud of yourself that you did it. And that's not to negate the truth that the medical team did things you were very uncomfortable with and bullied you. Right. I heard you use the word bullied, you know, bullied you into interventions you never intended, and, you know, it's complicated. Right? To hold both of those at the same time that I'm so happy, my baby's here, I'm falling in love, I'm, you know, I'm had I had I just birthed my daughter, and there's also it you we can hold it all. You know? We can also say, and those people fucked up my space.
Speaker 2
You know? Right. Right. And I think at the time, you don't really, you don't really recognize yeah, like, everything that's going on until you actually have time to think about it. And you're and it took a while for me to figure out. I was like, well, damn. That was kinda like a traumatic experience for me. You know, like, it took me a while to figure that out, but that experience led to my my next birth and why I wanted to be at home and why I wanted to just be in an environment where I felt safe and comfortable and not be in the hospital. So Yeah. Even though it was it was still a learning moment for me that put me in a place where I felt like I could do I could birth at
Speaker 3
home. Totally.
Speaker 2
So I am very thankful for that experience. At the same time, I was like, man, that was really that really sucked, but at the same time, it's like, well, it put me where I wanted to be, what I wanted to do. So at the same time, it was it was actually pretty good for me at the same time.
Speaker 3
Well, you took you took your experience and then transmuted it into a positive, which is your own internal wisdom and courage and authenticity that did that. Right?
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
Like, you saw what the system had to offer by way of experiencing some trauma, unfortunately, you know, and then was like, fuck that. I'm gonna go I'm gonna go down this other path, you know, and do it a different way.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
It would be wonderful if our daughters eventually can live in a world where home birth and respectful birth is so normal that they don't have to first be traumatized to learn. To yes. You know, that birth should be to learn. To
Speaker 2
yes. You
Speaker 3
know? That birth should be respected and and honored and but I totally hear you, and so many women find free birth this this way, and it's why it's so important to share these stories. Right. Because hopefully, we can help women circumvent or, you know, we can help women bypass the trauma, just in just into powerful birth. They don't have to first be bullied. Right?
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. Ideally.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So tell me about that space because then it goes on you then you have an eight year gap, right, between your daughter and your and your littles. So tell me about, you know, very briefly, like, kind of the recap of I'd love to hear how that birth left you a little bit and then into eight years later finding or I guess maybe seven years later finding yourself pregnant, or maybe intending to be pregnant, whatever, to kinda, like, bridge that gap for me of Yeah. Wrap up eight years of your life real quick.
Speaker 2
Ring was a very challenging child. You know, she's she's a Taurus, so she's she's bullheaded. She's head on. She's strong. You know, like, she's very vocal about everything. And, you know, like, me being her mother, like, I'm very I'm the same way, so we fight a lot. But, you know, raising her has been truly amazing. I love my child. She's she's just like a spark of fire. You know? Like, everybody loves her. I love her. Like, she's just she's amazing. She's a she's an amazing child. And she's had me for eight years, all to herself. Wow. She's still in my bed. Can't kick her out. So we're working on that. Wow. But, I've been, I've had other pregnancies, but I've had miscarriages, all within the same year. So we were planning on having kids, but it just never, you know, kind of happened. And then all of a sudden, like, oh, woah. You're having twins. Woah. So it was just, you know, like, I guess, in the working, my partner had had a a premonition, like, a dream come to him. He had, like, two these two dragons were swimming around him, and we were feeding the dragons, he said in his dream. So he was like, oh, we're gonna have twins. And I'm
Speaker 3
like, you know,
Speaker 2
I'm like, yeah. Whatever. But, you know and then twins run-in our family. I know they say that identical twins are not genetic. But my grandmother is a twin is a is a identical twin. My, uncle is is an identical twin. My, cousins are identical twins. They run very prominent within my family. Wow. And they don't, like, they don't skip a generation like they usually say they do. So even though, they say it's not a genetic thing, it happens with my family all the time. They're just they're just there. Wow. Right. So when I I knew I was pregnant, like, before our new school year started, I knew we were gonna be we were pregnant. And you were open to that? I was open to it, but I was very at the same time, like, I'm an artist as well too. So at that time, I was just, like, I was showing in galleries. I was I was had I had shows here. I had shows there. I was really I was very busy at that time. So when I found out I was pregnant, I was happy, but I was not happy the second time. So it was just like, oh, shit. You know? Like, okay. I'm doing all these things, and I have to and I have other fulfillments to fulfill. I had took on a book project. I had took on another art show within a couple of months. And I was like, how am I gonna do all this stuff? And I'm sick as a dog. Oh my god. This is before I even knew I was having twins. Right. But I just knew I was, like, I was so tired. I wasn't hungry. I wasn't eating. My mom was like, let's get an ultrasound. Let's go find out what's going on. And I was like, well, I know I'm pregnant. Like, that's what's the point of getting an ultrasound? So no. Let's just go get one. So we go get an ultrasound, and I'm laying there. My mom is there with me. I'm not thinking about anything. I'm just like, whatever. You know? We're just having a baby. It's something normal. And, she starts making very strange faces doing ultrasound, the technician. I'm just like, okay. Wanna see. Right. I'm just like, what's going on? Like, she's scaring the shit out of me. Oh, no. And then she's like, the twins run-in your family? And my mom is, like, smiling, like, ear to ear, and she's like, yes. Yes. They do.
Speaker 3
You're, like, the non genetic ones? Right. They do run-in our fieldwork.
Speaker 2
Right. And I'm just like, oh, shit. Wow. So it was it was some people are just, you know, so ecstatic about twins, and they were like, oh, but for me, it was I was happy, but I was like this kinda put me in a position where I was like, well, what are my birthing choices now? Totally. You know, I was kinda thinking about that because I knew I had known that after my firstborn, I wanted to be at home. So when I found out I was having twins, I was very, very anxious, and very scared, to be honest. I was like, man, they're probably gonna I'm probably gonna have to have a cesarean, but that's just how it goes. Like, there's no other way to, like, get around that.
Speaker 1
God. That's so sad, right, that this this
Speaker 3
time like, imagine if you didn't have to navigate that. If if you if society didn't pathologize twins like they do, if you could have just integrated the information, which honestly is a little intimidating on its own, you know, growing two babies, having two more babies when you expected one, like, that's kind of intense enough, I imagine.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
But then to
Speaker 2
have this
Speaker 3
other layer, so unfortunate.
Speaker 2
Right. Yeah. So it kind of like, the magic of having twins was kinda, like, diminished within my
Speaker 3
eye. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I was like, okay. So now I have to now we gotta figure this whole other thing out. Like, can we do this at home? Like, can we so immediately within, you know, like, within a couple weeks, we both started reading books. We were we both started, you know, looking at on Instagram, like, just looking at twin births, trying to find more information on twin births. Can we do it at home? Can we do it in a birthing center? I call it, like, I probably called, like, every birthing center in my area, and they told me they don't take twins, that I was considered high risk. And being considered high risk, like, for one, I eat healthy. I work out like a like a junkie, probably. Like, I'm a workout junkie. Like, up until my pregnancy before I got sick, like, I was always working out. I had a very, very, very rich diet. Well, none of that matters. None of that matter. Even when I went to the office, like they were like, are you a athlete? I'm like, no. I'm not an athlete. Like but, like, I was very healthy. So for them to say that I'm high risk Exactly.
Speaker 3
Well, that's
Speaker 2
the whole,
Speaker 3
you know, bullshit of the whole thing. The fact that your your body dared to have two babies. Right. You know, in spite of you being, you know, because it is pathologized, because twins are seen as dangerous, are seen as bad, are seen as, you know, surgery required. It doesn't matter if you're the healthiest, fittest person in the entire planet. And, Right. We talk about that a lot on this podcast. Who defines high risk? Right? And what's so freaking powerful about your story, and obviously, we're about to get into it, is you decided to define yourself. Right? You're you decided to assess your own risk and to not accept that label just because you had twins, and you created your own experience. Right?
Speaker 2
So
Speaker 3
cool. It's so important that, you know, for anyone listening who's been labeled high risk, like, do are you really high risk? Do you believe you're high risk? You feel high risk? What does high risk even mean?
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. And I had to ask the question a couple times. You know? Like, it was just, like, what is considered high risk? You know? And another thing that was bothering me is that every time I went into get a ultrasound or I get, I go off my prenatal appointment, it was always very negative. Like, it wasn't anything positive. You know? Like, at the time, I was I was going back to Hershey, the teaching hospital, and they only had one they call it medicine maternal fetal medicine. Mhmm. They had only one doctor, at the clinic that I was going to. So she I can only see her on, like, Monday or something like that. But I remember, like, meeting with her, and after I left, I never felt good. Like, she was just like, oh, you know, this could happen and that could happen and, you know, like, it was never a positive, like, oh, you're having twins. You should be happy. You should be relaxing and, you know, eating this and blah blah blah. But it was it was more of like, in this scenario, you know, like, you could likely be you could get surgery or this could happen or your baby could eat the other baby or Oh my god. You know, like, it was it was just never
Speaker 3
it was just never like a It's it's fear over love. Right?
Speaker 2
Like, love
Speaker 3
love would be there's a way to talk about everything if it you know, in a way that's nurturing and loving and appropriate and in a space of love, which obviously you you're not gonna get by some random ass doctor in a hospital
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
Most of the time. It sounds like your first one was cool. Oh, wait. So then why didn't you go back to the doctor that you really liked?
Speaker 2
She had quit yeah. And she had quit practicing in my area. Gotcha. Yeah. Because I would immediately went back to hold. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 3
Okay. So you're getting a super underwhelming, prenatals, quote, unquote, prenatal Right.
Speaker 2
They were very, and it's like your body is already, you know, doing double the work. You're already tired. I don't wanna go into an appointment and have to, like, listen to all this bad news because my that my body doesn't work or I can't do this or or in this scenario, it's gonna be this could happen. So I had decided to stop going and find someone find another doctor. So I was doing more information within my area. I talked to my my principal. My principal had twins, so he had recommended me to go see, another doctor. So I went to go see this other doctor. I'm not gonna name anyone, but I went to go see this other I went to this other practice. The doctor is black. He's he is originally from somewhere in Africa. So what I did like was that it was more laid back. It was very laid back. It was a very more intimate space. There were only two doctors there. He worked with a midwife. So I felt I felt very much more comfortable within that setting, but I like to ask questions. Yeah. You know, I'm very inquisitive, and I felt like, most of the time when I was speaking to the midwife or to the doctor, I didn't really they weren't really listening to what I was saying, or they weren't I felt like they weren't really being truthful, as to what I've been reading.
Speaker 3
You know,
Speaker 2
like, I'm like, you're a doctor. You're I've been why you've been practicing for so many years. So why are you not reading up on this material that's been, you know, that's been studied that's been out?
Speaker 3
Because they don't have to.
Speaker 2
I I mean, that's what it came down to. Like Yeah. You know, how are you gonna tell me I've I've been practicing blah blah blah, but, you know, I I've been painting and, you know, for forever, but, like, I'm still gonna read a article on, like, this new technique or I'm gonna, you know You you just forever growing within your within your field and within your process, so why not why not continue doing it?
Speaker 3
Because then they'd have to admit that they don't know everything. And doctors are this weird position in our culture, they're the gods. It used to be the Right. You know, it used to be priest, now it's doctors. It's really weird and interesting and fucked up. You know? That now they're the gods of our culture, and so they have to they they know everything. Right? And they can't make mistakes. It's a real even though they make mistakes all the time because they're humans, they're not gods.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
It's a really, really dangerous, kind of formula because like you said, you know, then they're not staying with the times. They're not open to learning. They're not open to new conversations. And already the fact that you're asking questions about your own future experience of giving birth, duh, which of course you are, isn't met with total respect and understanding, you know, and this is obviously Right. Norm across the world now. So crazy. Anyway okay. So then you're with them, and then what happens?
Speaker 2
So I'm with them, and, you know, like, as far as as I get later on into the gestation period where I'm where I'm getting ready to, you know, deliver, my my question becomes more intense. So I'm just asking questions, you know, like, about delayed clamping, and I'm asking questions about, you know, cesarean. And they want me to sign over my birthing rights. Like, in case this happens, you need a blood transfusion or a cesarean or a badge number. Like, you have to sign over a document now before you can go into the hospital. Yeah. So that was new, like, reading all this information before I even delivered. Mhmm. And I remember asking my doctor, you know, like because twin what is it? Twin a, she never she was not moving. Like, she was stubborn as shit. Like, she wanted to she just didn't move. She sat on her sister's face forever throughout the entire, you know, pregnancy. She just did not move. So I knew that, she was gonna be breached. The first one? Yeah. She was the first one was breached. The second one was down. So Oh, okay. They they, I guess they labeled my the the babies wrong unless they moved in within the womb, but my baby a was breeched. My baby b she was presenting. So she came out first, and she was actually down. But,
Speaker 3
Oh, I thought I thought baby a and b meant whoever comes first
Speaker 2
is Right. That's what they say, but they I guess they labeled them wrong. I don't know. But Okay. Gotcha. A was a was always breached. B was always down.
Speaker 3
Even though a a came second.
Speaker 2
Right. Exactly.
Speaker 3
Okay. Gotcha. That's gonna be very confusing.
Speaker 2
Right. Okay.
Speaker 3
So how long at this point, what week are you at in your pregnancy when you're, like, starting to ask the intense questions and it's it's getting real for
Speaker 2
you? I'm in I'm probably, like, around thirty weeks now. Okay. I remember going into, like, one of my, my ultrasound, and around thirty weeks, the they also have other doctors that come in and talk to you after after your, at the ultrasound. And he came in, and he was like, well, you know, you're, you're getting very close to your the day that we would schedule you for cesarean. And I'm like, what? Scheduling for cesarean? I'm like, yeah. You got that. And my mom, like, if you only knew, that's not gonna happen. But, I remember going in for my last ultrasound, and it seemed like he wanted to schedule me for my cesarean, like, then and there. You know? Like, I was only thirty three thirty three weeks.
Speaker 3
Damn.
Speaker 2
And he was like early. Yeah. It was really early. And I'm like, I'm I'm pretty sure I can go, you know, longer. And he kept telling me, like, we don't allow women to go longer than thirty six thirty six, thirty seven weeks within gestation.
Speaker 3
We don't allow.
Speaker 2
They don't allow you. So you can schedule for a cesarean.
Speaker 3
I have some clarifying questions real quick. Mhmm. At what point in your pregnancy do and maybe you're about to get there. At what point in your pregnancy do you start thinking, fuck this. I'm gonna stay home?
Speaker 2
I could do the entire pregnancy, actually. It was it was never I never intended to give birth in the hospital. I just knew I was gonna have my care there because the whole time, I was, so the crazy thing about Carlisle, Harrisburg area, it's very slow. It's not progressive. It's a very small they say it's a city, but it's a very small town. And the surrounding area, they there is an Amish community. There is, the Mennonite community. So, you know, all these children are born at home. Mhmm. But I could not get in contact with anyone, any midwife, any doulas servicing this area at all. So my entire pregnancy, my partner and I were calling, researching. Like, I can't even I can't tell you how much research I did trying to find someone to help me do this at home. And by like, every night, I would just meditate. You know, I'm having my children at home. I'm having them at home.
Speaker 3
I'm having
Speaker 2
them at home. I'm having like, every night, that was, like, part of my meditation just to have them at home. That was always included within the meditation.
Speaker 3
I was like,
Speaker 2
I don't really care what happens. They're gonna be boring at home. Like, that was just that was gonna happen whether regardless or not. So one day, I'm on Facebook talking to one of my friends, and she's like, I know someone. I'm like, what? And this was this was like I'm, like, thirty weeks then. So, like, they're talking about cutting me open. So I'm just like,
Speaker 3
wow. Are these things?
Speaker 2
Like, it's real. Like so I I immediately, like, I wanna talk to her right now. I'm gonna send her a message. So I sent her a message. She gets some confidence, like, within maybe a day or so. We have a meeting at my house. I have my partner on, what what is it, speaker because he's in Philly. We're all talking, and everything just sounded really good. I was like, I found this person. The universe is listening. Like, this is gonna happen. We're gonna have the deepest at home.
Speaker 3
And so when you say you found someone, can you explain her role really quick?
Speaker 2
So she is a birthing attendant. So she's very hands off. She was just there for extra support, because my partner, he wanted to just be at home by ourselves. And I would I would be totally okay with that. We were having one baby, but I'm like, wait a minute. No. We're having two babies. So I just wanna make sure that we have, you know, all the support that we have that we need and at least somebody that has some expert advice, that hasn't had that hasn't attending births, that has, you know, knowledge within, you know, free births or whatever. So she's home with us.
Speaker 3
She sounds like she's an underground
Speaker 2
midwife Right. Basically. Right.
Speaker 3
Like a traditional
Speaker 2
birth attendant.
Speaker 3
Not licensed, but walks with women and has experience. So it it would be what midwifery was before licensing.
Speaker 2
Exactly. That's what she that was her service. Yeah. Okay. Cool.
Speaker 3
Awesome. Mhmm. Well, we need more of those. And yeah. Okay. Cool. So you find someone that you click with, and that was the kind of final confidence boost or whatever
Speaker 2
to Yeah.
Speaker 3
To make you feel. And it sounds like you were gonna do it either way, really.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I feel you, man. So okay. So then end of pregnancy because I don't even know. At what at what week do you go into spontaneous labor?
Speaker 2
It was, thirty four weeks and three days.
Speaker 3
Wow. Okay. So between thirty and thirty four weeks, you're going in, they're like c section, c section, not Not gonna let you, not gonna let you, not gonna
Speaker 2
allow you.
Speaker 3
Right. Right. And all the while, you're like, mhmm.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm I
Speaker 3
already know what's happening.
Speaker 2
I already know what's happening. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3
So then take me into your birth story when you're when you're ready.
Speaker 2
So it happened. I had taken off the day before already because my my legs are really swollen, so I was not at I was not at work the day before anyway. And then my daughter and I are in bed. She's still on my bed. We're sleeping, and I'm getting contractions. But, I've been having contractions now for about a month, but they haven't been regular. So I was not really like, oh, they're all just fine. They're like the Braxton Hicks. I'll be cool. I'm gonna lay it back down. Whatever. But they keep going. I'm like, okay. This is kinda serious. So I do call my birth attendant. I let her know what's happening. And it's probably, like, four in the morning, so I'm still thinking about work. Like, am I still gonna go to work? Like, am I gonna call off? So I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna time these contractions. I'll get out of bed. I'll time them. And if they're not, you know, back to back, I'll go to work. If they are back to back, I'll stay home. So I called my partner, let him know what's happening, let him know if he should come or not. So I'm timing the contractions and yeah. I mean, this is this is real. So I'm like, okay. So I I call my job to know that I'm not coming in. I call her, let her know that, yeah, I guess we're gonna have the babies today, or within the next whenever they come, they're coming, but whatever. Call my partner back, let him know so he's getting ready to come. I call my mother so she can go pick up my daughter. She can go to school because it's still a school day. So she comes to pick up my daughter, and they they leave. So I'm home alone, you know, doing this transition within my labor. And, night I mean, I feel fine. I actually go back to sleep. Nice. So I go I go back to sleep, and when I wake up, my partner is there. So he's in the house, and we're just you know, we're talking and whatever. And then all of a sudden, the contraction just, you know, go into full throttle mode. So I'm in the tub, and he's timing the contractions now. Like, they're really intense. And then, so then he calls, the attendant again, and then she comes over. So I'm in the tub the entire time. They're they're sitting at the pool. My other friends, they're calling me. They wanna come. So they're driving from Philly to be with me during my birth. So, you know, everybody's just doing all these things. I'm just, like, in in constant pain. You know? So it was it was cool. My sister who, I love my sister. Oh my goodness. She's she's she's she's very amazing. But, I told her that I was gonna have a home birth. She didn't believe me. Like, she's just it's just completely the idea of being at home and having a home birth, she's it's like it goes over her head. So so she's just like, yeah. Whatever. You're going to the hospital. Whatever. But, doing with and within my labor, by the time we get into the pool, they set the pool up. I'm in the water. I'm having my contractions. My sister walks in, and I'm
Speaker 3
looking at it. Invited?
Speaker 2
She wasn't invited.
Speaker 3
Oh, shit.
Speaker 2
I didn't expect her to come anyway, so I didn't invite her. But I guess my mother told her that I was in labor, so she wanted to come.
Speaker 3
Did your mom know you were having a home birth?
Speaker 2
Yes. I made it very clear that they both I made it very clear that I was gonna have them at home. Even though they were against it, they didn't really you know, they weren't, they weren't really on board. It's my decision anyway. Yeah. Of course. So whatever. Like, my mom wanted me to go to the hospital. So did my sister. So when she came into the house, I was very, you know, wide eyed. I was like, what are
Speaker 3
you doing here?
Speaker 2
You know? Like, it's like, what are you doing here? She was like, I wouldn't sense for the world. You know? Like, I need to be here, like, to make sure you're okay. I was like, okay. Whatever. So, like, we're everyone's looking at her, like, is she gonna, like, start some shit? Like, is she or is she gonna or is she gonna, like, get in line and and chill the hell out? So she got in line. She chilled. Good. She grabbed my hand. She kissed me. She's like, I'm here. Whatever. Uh-huh. So And that was okay. Yeah. That that was okay. So it was good. And, you know, like, labor was just labor was labor. You know? I was in and out of I was in and out of contractions. My other friends came. There was, like, a big circle around the pool. There was music. There was candles. My partner was burning incense and sage. So it was very even though that I I felt like I wasn't in the environment, I was I was just in within myself, you know, trying to channel the the contractions and be within my being. You know, like, I could still feel the energy around me. Like, my eyes were closed pretty much the entire time, but I could still feel, you know, what was happening around me, and I could smell what was happening around me. So I I just felt very loved and very supported at the at the time. So doing active labor, labor didn't stall, but it was taking a very long time. So we were reading about castor oil. I'm reading about castor oil, and castor oil does, you know, help move things along within active labor. So my partner is like, go get the castor oil. Like, do you have castor oil? I usually have some. I didn't have any at that time. So my sister runs out to get the castor oil, but then, she she gets the wrong castor oil. She has to go back out and get it again, so she comes back. I take some castor oil, and then, boom, like, within maybe, like, twenty more minutes, like, I'm ready to push. So, my first baby born, is the twins. I have to remember their names and they're identical. So, Sola was born first. She came out first. She was baby b, my presenting baby. She was born within, you know, twenty minutes after the castor oil. And they say that your second baby was can be born anything anytime between thirty and forty five minutes. She was ready within twenty three minutes. So, she was born. I got to hold her for a little bit, But then within the next couple of and it was very it's it felt very, very fast. Like, even though it was twenty three minutes, like, they timed it. For me, it seemed like five minutes that I'll get to push again. Wow. So, you know, I'm getting ready to push my other baby out. And all of this labor I'm doing, you know, on my hands and knees in the hospital, you're on your back, and that's not helping you at all. Like, the labor came out. The babies came out a lot easier, and I felt I felt very well, you know, within myself and capable to do this. So, you know, listening to my body, being present, waiting for the contractions. In In the hospital, they they yell at you on a contraction, you know, push, push, push. But Right.
Speaker 3
You're not on a football field.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, you know, like so I remember, like, thinking, like, so when do I know it's time to push? Because in the hospital, someone is telling you to push. Right. Yeah. So you you've kind of so when you're at home, and if you had a baby in the hospital, like, these questions did arise for me, like, constantly.
Speaker 3
I was
Speaker 2
like, so when do I push? And my attendant was like, you'll know when well, you'll know when it's ready to push. You'll you'll just feel it. Like, this is chill. Yeah. And, like, if you were to yeah.
Speaker 3
It's like
Speaker 2
if you were
Speaker 3
to have gotten enemas your whole life or something, you know, and then to be, how will I know when to poop? It's like, you'll just know.
Speaker 2
Right. You'll just know. Right?
Speaker 3
Your body will just let you know.
Speaker 2
Your body will let you know. So my body, of course, you know, let me know, you know, when it was time to push, reach contraction, whatever, and just be being very present within that moment, within each contraction that happens so that I could push my babies out. And within twenty three minutes, I'm ready to push again, And I pushed out Spirit. Spirit is the second baby she was born in call and completely within her sack. And they had to, you know, break her water when she came out. She did come out, the birth attendant, so they just ripped the sack open. My partner helped her as well because he he caught all the babies.
Speaker 3
I didn't catch were you were in the tub. Right?
Speaker 2
You're in the pool? The pool. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And so what position were you in? Were you looking forward?
Speaker 2
I was, so I was on my hands and knees, but I was not, let's just say I was facing the pool wall because I was actually holding on to one of my friends, his torso when I was pushing. So I didn't get to catch any of my babies. My partner caught both of the both of the twins. So he grabbed them up and pulled them out of the water. And to be honest, I I I was just so kind of freaked out of, like, even, like, touching them that I didn't wanna touch them anyway. Like, I I don't know what's going on. I was just I was kinda freaking out at the time. I was like, I don't wanna touch them. Like, this you just you just give them out the water, please. So he just grabbed them out the water and, you know, he gave he gave me
Speaker 3
the babies once they both came out. So the second baby comes out in the call and papa catches birth attendant, opens it, opens the bag, and then hands the little one to you?
Speaker 2
Yes. Yes. Yep.
Speaker 3
And that one was breach. Right?
Speaker 2
And she was the breach baby. Yes. So she was the reason why they were gonna give me a cesarean. Because the the plan was that I was going to, deliver a badge made for my first and have a cesarean for my second. And I'm thinking, like, I have a child at home already. Like, I can't, I cannot I can't do
Speaker 3
that. Also, that wasn't the reason she was they were gonna give you a cesarean. You know? That's if if if both
Speaker 2
babies were
Speaker 3
head down, they would have found another reason. You know? They
Speaker 2
would yeah. They would have found another reason. I I truly believe they would have. You know? Oh, they would.
Speaker 3
Something to yeah. And the babies would have had mandatory NICU
Speaker 2
time. Right.
Speaker 3
You know? I mean, so much. So so so much would have been different. Yeah. Obviously. Right. So then so so did you get to see them open up the call?
Speaker 2
I didn't get to see anything, which is kinda like, that's that's the funny thing about it. Like, doing that burp, I swear I was not I was, like, somewhere else. Right. Totally. I was not I was not there. Mhmm. And then just seeing all the pictures and the video footage afterwards, like, it was kind of, like it was really surreal. Like, I was there, but I wasn't. Like, I felt like I was somewhere I was within I was so within my being that I was not present about what's happening around me. I was still very concentrated on just, you know, pushing these babies out and and just going to going through, each contraction and breathing, working on my breathing work, that everything else around me did not matter. Like, it's just I was somewhere else. Yeah. You're right. Time. Yeah. I was in it. So I got to see the videos and the pictures, of Spirit within her sack. I got to see the video of him pulling, you know, soul out of the waters. I was not I was not there. And I felt like, like, I didn't miss it, though. Like, it wasn't like, you know, like, oh, I didn't get to see my baby come out of the water. I didn't get to see this. You know, like but, you know, I was I was just so, like, I have to stay grounded. I have to stay focused to And you are. Able to work through this. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, and yeah. You you didn't see it from an outside perspective, which I guess you could put a job later, but you were you were it. You birthed your babies. Right? Like Right. You were birthed. You did it. You were doing it. And then that's cool and interesting and probably very weird that you have footage and and photos from an outside perspective since
Speaker 2
you were From all different angles.
Speaker 3
For better or worse. Right.
Speaker 2
Everybody had a camera. Like
Speaker 3
Right. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Speaker 3
And so then placentas come out with ease in the tub or or is there
Speaker 2
Oh, man. My placenta was, like, the worst part of it. Oh, no. What happened? Yeah. It did not wanna come out. So I mean, everything I read was like, it just it just slides out after you're after you're done giving birth, and it wasn't like that for me. Well, where
Speaker 3
did you read that?
Speaker 2
That's not that's not all
Speaker 3
that's not right. At all.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it took another hour, Like, another forty five minutes to an hour for to come out. And, That's normal. I had my babies. I went to a birthing chair to, like, try to get rid of the placenta, but it didn't wanna come out. Then I went to go lay in the bed. And it was like having another baby because you have you still have these contractions. And at this time, I'm, like, fucking tired. Like, I'm so tired. I was just, like, screaming, like, this like, someone get this out of me. I I just wanna go to sleep. I was so tired. So just waiting for the time, somebody would say push it out. So then, you know, like, I just push and then finally just came out and I felt like I'm a free woman because it was just it was it felt more painful than delivering my babies, to be honest. Like, I I don't contractions? The contractions for the placenta.
Speaker 3
Not the actual emergence of the placenta because that doesn't have bones. Right? But the
Speaker 2
Right. Right.
Speaker 3
The afterbirth contractions. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Ugh. I bet. Yeah. And there's no, like, joy, like, with with the baby.
Speaker 2
There's no joy like that. It would just,
Speaker 3
like, get out of
Speaker 2
the window. Yeah. So they got all their blood because the placenta was not it was very stubborn as hell. So we weren't worried about, you know, you know, delayed cord clamping or whatever. Yeah. So Well, I mean, I I got everything.
Speaker 3
I wanna just just say two things really quickly for everyone listening. Very, very common for it to take an hour or even two or even three. And, yes, you know, we wanna encourage it to come out after forty five minutes or so, but, but it's there there's there's a science. There's there's a genius to it of why it's taking the time it's taking. So, that's totally normal. And then I also just I I have to say everyone to each their own, but but please please be careful with castor oil, if you're hearing this. If you're hearing this and going, oh, well, that sounds nice. You know, of course, everyone can do their own thing, and that's super awesome that that worked for you and that that was the right thing for you. But it is highly toxic, and it can, it can really ruin a lot of labors. You know, a very common thing is it because it it, is so toxic and then it makes you sick. It gives you diarrhea often.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 3
And then it can, dehydrate you very quickly. And anyway, so just for anyone hearing this going, well, that sounds like
Speaker 2
a nice trick in my back pocket. I mean no. It's and I take castor oil actually because it's actually, even before my pregnancy, it's like a dewarmer. So, you know, my family and I were very big on, you know, like, cleansing ourselves and stuff stuff like that. So I'm very familiar with castor oil and taking it. Mhmm. So I knew taking it though my birth wasn't really gonna harm me. So, like, just having the information and knowing that Yeah. Taking it though my birth will be okay just because I've already I've already taken it within five doses without without, for my pregnancy. Mhmm. Yeah. So, yes, the research is for you. Yeah. Take any acid oil. Looks great that it worked for you.
Speaker 3
So so then so then here you are having just freaking epically birthed your twins against all medical advice, you know, having said no thanks to what they had to offer and then having, healthy, normal, wonderful babies and birthing your own placenta an hour after. And how then just to wrap up, like, how do how does that feel for the next, you know, following days, and and how has nursing been with twins if you are or not are not doing it?
Speaker 2
Nursing. It's been it's definitely been, up and down, because I I'm I'm in my hometown. My partner is in Philadelphia. I only see him on a weekend, so I'm at home alone myself a lot. Oh. Right now, I am in Philadelphia with him because I just got tired of it because I'm I'm I'm on maternity leave anyway. So I was like, I might as well just come and stay with you until, you know, we make a move to be together or whatever, looking at houses, whatever we do in the future. But, it's definitely been, you know, a lot of cries, a lot of tears, a lot of a lot of them are showering, sobbing, a lot of sore nipples and, just trying different, techniques, what works, a lot of reading, on breastfeeding and, tandem nursing and nursing twins. A lot of I I read a lot about breast milk. It's insane how much I've been reading about breast milk. And just, reaching out to other parents who have twins is has been very helpful for me. You know, what do they do? How do they do it? Everybody say it gets easier every day, and I get it, but it's still hard. Yeah. Of course. I I totally understand. Like, oh, it it gets easier. It gets easier. I'm just like, well, it's not easy right now. It's hard, and I'm tired. So, yeah, I am breastfeeding sometimes. I nurse them individually, but most of the time, just because it takes so long, I would prefer to nurse them together
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Hand them nursing. So that has been what I've been focusing on right now is just trying to tandem nurse get them to tandem nurse at the same time. I am now six weeks. Okay.
Speaker 3
So it's still super fresh.
Speaker 2
It's still super fresh. Yeah. I'm still super tired. My body is still looking like murder. You know? Like How does it feel? I mean, I feel good. I feel like because I worked out so much within my early, before pregnancy, you know, like, I've always my body was able to adapt very quickly. And I go to the chiropractor regularly. They, you know, bend me all up out of the you know? So I do feel my body does feel very, very good. I'm just tired all the time.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Exactly. They don't they don't sleep at all, and they are very, very I we call them the troubled twins right now, just because one wants to be up and one wants to be down. Ugh. They yeah. It's just they never do without the
Speaker 3
same thing. And you're mostly alone.
Speaker 2
I'm mostly alone.
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's
Speaker 2
really, really hard. Hard. So I've been figuring out, like, little tricks. The one thing I do now when I when I'm tanning the nursing is to have a bottle next to me just in case, they get very they it's like it's like a snap. Like, within day and night, they turn into, like, really bossy babies. So my problem is right now is just, like, getting my pillow together, getting, you know, like, the extra blankets to to couple them on my breast, being relaxed when I'm breastfeeding them. Like, I know the cues when they're hungry. It's just getting set up really quickly. With no help? With no help. And that can that can be very, very hard, you know, like, just Man. Setting up very, very quickly before they start, you know, going berserk. Mhmm. So now I have, like, a little bottle with me to just calm them down for a little bit, and then I lash them. And that's been working on that's been working very well That's smart. For using my, my body pillow. I'm tired of nursing because they wanna eat, like your boobs are not your boobs anymore. Like, they don't belong to you. I like to put them in my body pillow that I used to use when I was pregnant, and I put them into two little loops, and I just feed them at the same time with a bottle. So, like, I'm just figuring out, like, little I call them twin hacks. Oh, really? Figuring things out that I can do just to make myself, you know, less stressed. Yeah. Like, yeah, get get rest. And lately, I just I was just talking I had a problem with, with night feeding because I am alone. I was pumping a lot at night, like, just pumping and giving them bottles because I felt like I would get more sleep that way. If I could I could pump while I feed them. That's what I was doing. I was pumping. That was timing when they wake up, like, every two and a half hours pretty much. Sometimes three, but very rare. So I would wake up maybe, like, fifteen minutes before they would wake up, put my bra on, I would pump. I would wake them up, feed them, put them back to sleep, go to the kitchen, prepare a new bottle. And that was but I would be up maybe, like, forty five minutes later even though they were still even they were sleeping.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 2
So that was a big problem, and I just reached out to someone about that. And they were like, why don't you just breastfeed them at night? And I'm like, I had thought about that. Yes. Didn't cross didn't, like, didn't cross my mind. But I'm like, it's just so that's just, like, so hard for me right now to breastfeed them at night because it's just me. Like, a bottle is kind of easier at the moment. But, I I've been been doing that right now. I've been breastfeeding them at night. It's been okay. It's been they fall asleep on a breast, I guess. I was I just wanna make sure they're eating enough, so I just wanted to give them the bottle. Yeah. It's been it's been fine, though. They've been Wow. Making wet diapers and pooping. So Yeah. They're fine. Yeah. They're fine. Wow. This is like a lot.
Speaker 3
It's a lot. Women are not supposed to be mothering alone.
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
You know? It's that's Biologically,
Speaker 2
you're not you're not equipped to mother alone, so you have to have a village. And and it was you know, like, my friends have been coming over, bringing food, make sure I get a nap. I remember, like, I didn't shower for, like, couple days. My friend came and was like, you stink in the shower. Yeah. You know? So, you know, like, it's just been your life is different. It's definitely different. And even having my my eight year old, she helps, but she can only do so much. Right. You know, like, she she brings me bottles, and she'll bring me diapers and wipes, And she wants to learn how to change diapers and feed the babies, you know, like so she's been very helpful, but, you know, like, she's not she still she still got a lot of work to do. So Totally. Wow. It it has it has been it has been a very it has been trying. It has been very challenging, and difficult, but it does I I do I will say it does get easier. Oh, yeah. For sure. Things out. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And before you know it, they're gonna be walking around and eating food and
Speaker 2
Walking around and tearing my house up. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And tearing your house up.
Speaker 2
They'll be they'll be inducing. I have
Speaker 3
to worry. Challenges. Yeah. Wow. Well, you're making it work. And and like you said earlier in the in the conversation, thank god you're not also healing from a cesarean.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, thank god. I was I would totally I don't know how I would do that. Like, it was just that was the whole thing. Like, how am I gonna heal my body, cesarean, have twins, and still have to feed my other child? Like, I don't know how I was gonna do that. Wow. That would be felt like that felt very impossible for me. Mhmm. So Yeah. No.
Speaker 3
Wow. What an amazing story. And just what a what an incredible and strong and intuitive woman you are. You really gave you really gave these babies a such a sacred, reverent, powerful start.
Speaker 2
Thank you. Yeah. They they definitely do. And I'll be showing them all the pictures when they get older. That's awesome.
Speaker 3
Beautiful. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
