Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea. Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. This week, I sit down with Mitzi, who first shares her heartbreaking story of violence in the system. After her unnecessary c section, Mitzi left England and returned home to Canada. In her second pregnancy, she found support in the wonderful traditional midwife, Gloria LeMay, who supported her in Mitzi's powerful VBAC. Then Mitzi is shocked to discover that she is pregnant with her third child and decides to birth on the tiny island where she herself was free birthed, and so she did.
Speaker 2
So I was born at home, and, you know, you don't know that that's, like, a unique thing when you're a kid. And so that was just kind of always the norm for me. My sister was born at home. I was born at home. And I was born, on a small, remote island, in BC. And so not only was, you know, being born at home a thing, but it was also I was the only baby born on this island within the last, like, something like seventy five years. Woah. And yeah. So it's not like a common thing to do. There's no emergency services there at that time. There's no hospital, certainly not. And so it was like, you know, I didn't recognize at the time what a, you know, considerably brave thing it was that my mother was doing my mother and father were doing then.
Speaker 1
Did your did your was there a midwife in attendance?
Speaker 2
So no. But, Gloria LeMay had been on island just visiting with my mom and, like, you know, as friends. Aw. Up until the day she went into labor.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. And you were the first born?
Speaker 2
No. I'm I am the second born.
Speaker 1
Okay. So your sister had a home birth elsewhere?
Speaker 2
No. Yeah. So my mom had my sister in Vancouver
Speaker 1
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 2
In their house there, and then we were on holiday on this island. Oh my god. Yeah. And and and Gloria had just been visiting, and, and it it was the day she had to go, and it was that night. My mom So was
Speaker 1
was Gloria your mom's, like, midwife or attendant and it just didn't work out that way, or was your mom having a like, planning to have a free birth as well?
Speaker 2
She was always planning to have a free birth. Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I think you're the first person on this show whose mom did it too.
Speaker 2
Yay. Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, the thing is actually Gloria and my mother's relationship was sort of, not opposite, but, like, you know, reciprocal in that. My mom was teaching Gloria. My mom's a nurse. And by and she was teaching Gloria a lot of, maternity stuff, that that at the time, GLOW was just very fresh and new to learning. This is nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1
Right? Right. Wow.
Speaker 2
So yeah. So they were sort of working together and, and then my yeah. And then so Glow went home, and, my mom, yeah, my mom and dad just had me there on island. So I I had this you know, I being born at home and home birth was always very natural thing for me. And then also I had this sort of, you know, a claim to fame, which was that everyone on this small island knew me as the baby that was born there. You know? Totally. Until till this day, I have people come up to me and say, oh, oh, you're the one that was born here. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Because you live there now?
Speaker 2
We don't live there full time now, but we did
Speaker 1
Okay.
Speaker 2
Up until my son was born and there. And then three months later, about we moved, to the mainland Okay. Close to the island.
Speaker 1
But So you're still very connected to this place?
Speaker 2
Still very connected. Yeah. We still have, the house that he was born in Aw. Because we like to to keep it. That's that's the free birth. And, so yeah. But then when I became pregnant myself, I found myself in a very different situation. I was living in London London, England, and, and I didn't have the same kind of natural support around me. In my mind, home birth was a very just obvious thing to do, but not in my husband's at all. And and and not in the support network that I had around me. And in England, I don't know if you know this or not, but everyone you see, like so your maternity care is all midwives, but they're, like, they're not, I don't think, how you and I would would define
Speaker 1
A hundred percent not. Midwives.
Speaker 2
You know? And, they're midwives.
Speaker 1
They're midwives of the medical medical paradigm.
Speaker 2
Right. Midwives. Yes. Absolutely. And I remember going to we, like, we got you know, we did the whole thing. We signed up to, like, the prenatal courses. And every single week, it was like, I remember them being, like, here's what you need to be worried about today. Totally. Right? Like But also
Speaker 1
these are these are midwives with within the hospital. Right? Like,
Speaker 2
you you
Speaker 1
leave your home to be attended by these women. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Mhmm. And also, we were living in a flat, you know, and it's like a small flat in London above other people, and I just didn't feel like, you know, all of those and it was my first time and I was scared, and I and I didn't feel like all those things combined put me in a position where I felt like I could home birth. But so this particular hospital in London had, these places. I'm sure you've heard of the a birthing center. Mhmm. And so I was like, okay. This is like this seems like this will be a nice halfway. It's a compromise. It's a compromise for everybody. I can still there's a there's a pool, there's a swing. This will work. And, of course, these medwives set me up to say, well, you can only go into the birthing center if you are completely complication free. Right? So they're like, oh, your whole pregnancy has to be completely complication free, then we'll allow you into the birth center.
Speaker 1
And we're gonna look for complications the entire time. So if we find anything Yeah. Out
Speaker 2
of the
Speaker 1
range of what we've considered normal, which is so fucking small.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Then you're out. Yeah. Mhmm. And and and and even more so on the day when I finally went like, when I was in labor. So I'm at my in my flat. I'm birthing. It's all happening. It's dark. It's happy. My contractions coming full on. I get in the car to drive to the hospital, get there, nothing. So it's it's over. Right? And so it's not and they're looking at me like, well, you're not it's, you know, you're not far enough. It's safe. We can't let you in. And they did exactly that. They actually put they have this room that's before like, it's on the other side of the door to the birthing center triage where they're like, let's really go over you and see what could possibly be wrong so that we we we can't take you in here. Because if there Wait.
Speaker 1
So your complication that ruled you out of this birthing suite was that you were in labor? Like, what what was the
Speaker 2
No. No. No. They no. They sent me home. They sent me home three times. Woah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
That's so horrible.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Like, talk about disruption.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I mean, exactly. If I had if I had if I knew what I knew now Of course. I would never have left the house again. Because when I was at home with my husband, cozy, warm, dark in bed, everything was happening. Yeah. But then, you know, you you get you try to pull yourself together, get in a car, broad daylight, You know, it just every time I just my body went, woah. This is scary. Why are we doing this?
Speaker 1
We we recently shared something on Instagram that people lost their freaking minds over, which was, essentially that there's no such thing as a natural birth once you've left your home.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And and what what we were the point we were trying to make oh, that we did make, is is exactly what you're talking about is that if we're talking about the physiology, the hormonal blueprint, you know, the the intended mammalian sequence that is meant to unfold in a in a quote unquote natural labor, the moment you leave your nest, the moment you leave your den, it is inherently disrupted. It just is. And that doesn't mean that women some women don't go on to still have a vaginal birth, but
Speaker 2
to
Speaker 1
deny the inherent disruption that then you have to, try so hard to overcome. Right? And you're you're I mean, even I know where this story goes, but even even what you're sharing so far is exactly to the point that your body, which was working so hard for you and your mind, you know, that was that was up against almost impossible odds of disruption.
Speaker 2
Yes. And then and then throw into this room where they're like, okay. Yeah. Let's really see what's wrong. Oh. And so the and so you know, because just that, it's like, okay. Well, we're in this natural beautiful process, but let's just stop everything. Just really, really meticulously look at what could be going wrong. And, and so they did, and then, yeah, the I my blood pressure was too high. I was dehydrated. Duh. Duh. Like, I'd been vomiting through the heavy contractions at home. And, you know, again, like I said, I know now that, like, that's that's that's how I birth. I vomit through the first few really hard contractions. Hey. It opens up. Yep. It opens up. I think it's coming out. But, so then they sent me so then, yeah, I wasn't allowed to be in the in the birthing center anymore.
Speaker 1
And then to experience that level of disappointment because it's so rooted in fear of like, oh, like like appropriately so. Oh my god. Now I can't go to this place that is, you know, perceived to be Right. Dental and and mother led, and now I'm gonna have to go over to the obstetrical side.
Speaker 2
Right. So then so from that moment on, I'm being admitted to the hospital. Something's wrong. You know? So from that moment on, something's wrong with my process.
Speaker 1
Right. You're doomed.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm doomed from then on it.
Speaker 1
So,
Speaker 2
I, I was, they said so they call it a failure to progress. I'm sure you've heard this term before.
Speaker 1
The most like, it's the most misogynistic, gross label to give a woman. It's like it's like incompetent cervix. You know? All that stuff.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, yeah. Failure to progress after in about four days of laboring. They I got to nine centimeters and Oh my gosh. But, you know, everybody was done. And so they said I remember the doctor saying, you know, you're at nine. We could wait till ten, but by the time you get to ten, you you're still only you're still gonna have to go through the pushing process, which will be No
Speaker 1
shit, doc.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, I understand
Speaker 1
that I'll need to push.
Speaker 2
Another twelve hours and, you know, everybody's you're already exhausted. I don't think you your system can do it kind of thing. And by this point, of course, I'm hooked up to everything. Right? Like, I'm on epidural. I'm going to baby monitor. I'm I'm on a a drip. I can't I can't move from bed. Like, it's no. There's no way out. And I I had one lovely midwife, in the hospital there. She was young, and she I I wish I could remember her name right now, but she she saw me burst into tears when they were like, looks like this looks like we should go to, you know, go to surgery. And also, they sold that's how they sold it. They said, it's twelve it'd be another twelve hours of pushing and and you're exhausted, or surgery is twenty five minutes. Oh my god.
Speaker 1
You could have your baby within the hour.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh my god. I could be holding it in in half an hour? Amazing.
Speaker 1
It's like, let's torture you. Let's literally fucking torture you and sabotage you and then give you this out that you're gonna have trauma around for, you know, some period of time, possibly the rest of your life.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
And and then but you could have your baby right now. I mean, it's so Wow. Highly intuitive.
Speaker 2
And in this, like, immediate gratification culture of, like, oh, you're offering it to me now?
Speaker 1
Right. And like you said, I mean, of course and this is I mean, I hope you know this is no judgment of you whatsoever. It's it makes complete sense for the way that you were tortured. You know? Of course, you wanted a way out. Of course. Duh. What are you gonna do? Say no?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And and, like, my husband's been sleeping on the floor of the bathroom for the last couple nights. He's like, yeah. Let's get his whatever.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then so and then the one midwife said she saw me burst into tears when they said the option of of c section, and and so she went in and, petitioned for me and said, let's can we give her another hour? Like, she's at nine. Let's I'll get her I'll get her up. Let me get her up on her on her on her hands and knees and see if we can get this and, like, give me an hour. And so they did. And so she was, k. You can do this. And we got so close, but it was still, like, an hour, and I was, yeah, I was defeated. And so by then, they're like, okay. No. That that's it. Time's up. Ugh. Yeah. And so
Speaker 1
I have heard that said to women so many times, that exact time's up. Mhmm. That is so painful.
Speaker 2
You didn't progress in the allotted time. You failed at it. So let us do our thing. It's heartbreaking. Yeah. So we, yeah. So then, anyway, so c section and, yeah, like you said, I mean, it just was it just was everything that I you know, it's just the opposite of of what I hoped how I hoped it would go. And then the postnatal care was probably the most torturous, experience of the of all of it in that particular hospital. My, that it it's called Ladywell in in London, in south southeast London. And, I I think it's probably typical of most hospitals there because it's such a big city. The your husband or your partner is not allowed to stay. So you don't they get the same visiting hours as everybody else. So you it's disgusting. And so you have, your baby in this plastic thing beside you, and you've just been cut in half. And and my daughter was, like, screaming the building down, and and I couldn't pick her up. It's actual torture. So I'm, like, buzzing this thing, like, okay. Like, somebody no one's coming. I don't know why they can't hear a cry. Someone's coming. So I'm, like, a a nurse, a midwife. And so someone would come and give her to me, and I would feed her and have her on the breast, and that she would be skin to skin and she'd be in bed, and we would both fall asleep. And then somebody would come and get really angry with us and say that's so dangerous. You can't do that. Yeah.
Speaker 1
You have to
Speaker 2
don't fall asleep with her put her back in in the thing. Mhmm. My daughter wasn't having it. Few minutes later, whatever, maybe a couple hours, screaming her head up. That's that was our night. So by day and they, like, they they they doubled up on my pills. Like, it just was, like, it was a it was a total shit show. So day two and a half, I was, like, I'm out of here. Yeah. I'm out of here. I have my mother who's a nurse and my husband who's the father of this child at home. Mhmm. I will have way better care there than I'm than I'm receiving here. Totally. Out of here. Yeah. I'll have twenty four hour there.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
And I'll be able to have this baby in bed with me.
Speaker 1
And you can sleep with your baby. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Exactly. Like, we'll be able to skin to skin soothe each other. Right? And, yeah. And they were like, well, the doctor doesn't think you're ready. I was like, I don't care. I'm Right. Out of here. I can barely stand up. I'm going home. So, yeah, we did. And then, and then so that was, and then after that, I just, like, I was alone. I was I was post c I mean, I wasn't alone. My husband was there, but I was in a, you know, still in London. And, you know, majority of my family is in in DC. Mhmm. And friends and support. And and, so, yeah, it was a it was a full trauma. I I don't I don't know that I was postpartum depressed. I was very definitely postpartum anxious.
Speaker 1
Who wouldn't be depressed after dealing with your birth being completely taken from you? And all of a sudden having unexpected surgery and being tortured. But, you know, like, I mean, just this whole postpartum depression thing is like, it's it's traumatized.
Speaker 2
Yes. Yeah. You've been it's it's PTSD.
Speaker 1
Right. You've gone through trauma. You then have to figure out how to mother this new little baby while being traumatized. Of course, you're anxious. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. And you're alone mostly.
Speaker 2
It's just mostly. Yeah. Yeah. Dad's gotta go to work. Like Painful. Yeah. And and and I'm and I remember feeling I remember feeling how badly I had fucked this thing up. Like, I had I messed up this birth so badly. I was now so terrified of of messing everything else, you know, like, oh, I can't like, I I screwed up the first step. Mhmm. I can't screw up all the rest of them. You know? I gotta be able to breastfeed. I gotta be you know, all of those other things and all the pressure I felt, from that. And, definitely, that trauma, it did not go away, for a very long time. Like you said, I I mean, I still wanna cry when I think about it.
Speaker 1
Of course. I wanna cry just hearing it. This is the way that so many women begin their mothering.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Is from being tortured, abused, and cut, and then are left largely alone. I mean, can you think of a more fucked up, but but successful way to keep women down and to keep women out of their power?
Speaker 2
Yes. No. No. No. I can't. So then I'm, we so then I was like, that's it. I can't live here anymore. Yeah. I I we gotta go home. And, thankfully, my husband was supportive. And, so we moved directly from London to this tiny island called Savory on on the Sunshine Coast. And my dad lived there. My dad was thrilled Aw. That his grandbaby was coming to live on the same island. And, and I was just like, oh, sanctuary. You know? Like, I'm I'm I'm gonna be able to just go into nature and walk with this baby and, you know, be be quiet and calm. And and, certainly, a lot of the anxiety didn't go away, but, but I was, you know, I was happier at home. Yeah. It was a step. It was a step. And then around I guess, my daughter would have been around, like, a year, or a bit more. Year and a year, like, you know, fourteen, fifteen months, when, I got pregnant again. And or maybe less than that, actually, because they're only twenty three months apart, so whatever that matters. Oh, okay. I can't think of it right. But, so so okay. So I'm pregnant again. I'm on a small remote island with, you know, no hospitals or anything. We're living there, and I I I had a c section the first time. So, you know, I go to a doctor who's you know, says she's supportive of of of home birth. No. Not home says she's supportive of home birth and says she's supportive of VBACs, but not together. So she would support me in a VBAC in hospital, but not a VBAC at home.
Speaker 1
Well, of course not. She's a doctor.
Speaker 2
She's a doctor. That's fine. That makes sense. That's her, thing. And so, and so, you know, she kinda she kinda like, we kinda had each other's number from the beginning. Like, she I was like, oh, oh, okay. So you won't? And she was like, yeah. But you you can do it at a hospital, and I'll definitely support you in a feedback. And I was like, if I go to a hospital with you, I'm definitely being cut open, and you're not gonna stay home with me, and this isn't gonna work out. So I'm on this side. I want to say, I'm scared. I'm very pregnant. This baby's coming whether I like it or not. Like, baby's coming, and I'm like, I can't go through that again. Like, I can't set foot in the hospital again. And, of course, the thing that they say that, like, if you are to attempt to be back, it should be like, there should be a two year gap between them. I'm only twenty three months apart. All of these things that are gonna be, you know, against me kind of thing. Oh, impossible. Right? And so I, thank goodness a light bulb goes off in my head, and I'm like, who's gonna who is gonna support me in this? Like, I need to find my support. And I'm like, oh, yeah. Gloria. Like, why didn't I not think of this before? So I called Gloria. I get my I'm like, mom, do you have Gloria's number still? She's like, yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, so I call I call Gloria, and she doesn't answer. I leave a message, and, and then it's like, I don't hear back for a few days or whatever. And, again, I'm in this, like, turmoil of what's gonna happen. Baby's coming. And I remember I was on the beach, with my daughter, and, and I just was, like, trying to keep it together, you know, for her sake and everybody else's. And, I, like, you know, I was, like, praying to whoever would listen. I was like, listen. I need I need assistance with this, and my phone rang. Aw. Yeah. And it was a girl. And and, she was like, hey, Mitsy. It's glow. And I'm like, hi. She's like, it's so wonderful to hear from you. Like, I haven't heard from you in so long. And and she's like, okay. So tell me. I need to know like, tell, like, tell me the all the details of the of the first birth. And so I did. I went into every single, you know, resulting detail of the first time and cried the whole way through it and, you know, told her everything. And she was like, okay. Okay. Great. And so you wanna have this this baby at home naturally? And I said, yes. That's great. Okay. I just need to do two I need to know two things. These are my two questions. What, first of all, did you dilate? How for how far did you dilate? Right.
Speaker 1
You got that in your corner.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Nine to nine. And and, yeah, and did you breastfeed? Mhmm. And I was like, yeah.
Speaker 1
Same questions I ask.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm like, yeah. I dilated to nine centimeters, and I breastfed. I'm still breastfeeding at, you know, at the time I was still breastfeeding. And, she was like, great. No problem. You'll have no problem. Mhmm. That's that's a that's a no brainer. You've already done it.
Speaker 1
I I do wanna insert here for anyone listening. If you didn't dilate and you didn't breastfeed, that does not mean you will have a problem. Okay? So if you're hearing that and and just got freaked out, it's okay. It doesn't mean that at all. It's it's, you know, she was asking that and I asked that because, that hormonal repair and that hormonal release, and knowing, you know, that your body got well into labor, is just one piece of information, you know, that it doesn't it's it's not a crystal ball. It doesn't, it doesn't predict how
Speaker 2
a birth will go. So, yeah. So don't feel
Speaker 1
like if you had a c section and you didn't dilate or you didn't breastfeed that you're,
Speaker 2
like, totally doomed. It does not we're not suggesting that at all. No. Absolutely not. And I and I know, countless women who have had the the opposite experience. Yep. Yep. And so that yeah. So we but, you know, at the end And
Speaker 1
how pregnant are you at this point?
Speaker 2
I'm, like, five months pregnant, maybe. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1
We have some time still.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. There's still time. Yeah. And so, Gloria says, okay. So you're living on Sabrina. And she said, well, you know, because I'm be back. Like, I'm I do, and that was always what I sort of thought I would do with my like, I was born here. Like, I thought I'd have my babies here. And she was like, okay. Well, I I I can't come there. And so not not that she wouldn't support me in having the birth, the baby there, but she said I can't come. I have other mothers in Vancouver. It wouldn't be fair.
Speaker 1
And what's the distance?
Speaker 2
Oh, it's like I mean, as far as driving, it's like nine hours.
Speaker 1
Oh, it's significant. Okay.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, it's like two ferries and then another boat and stuff. It's it's yeah. So she's like, I support you, but, like, I can't I can't come there. And so she gave me the name of somebody, another midwife that was close. And so I was speaking to her, and she was closer. We were having this kind of thing. We were like, okay. Well, this this could work, and you could take the boat over when I go in labor. And, oh, well and it just it wasn't meshing. Mhmm. And so then finally, I went, okay. Again, compromise. My mom has a house in Vancouver. I'll see if she'll let me birth there, labor there, and then Gloria can be there. Yeah. And, Well,
Speaker 1
this is a different type of compromise. This Yes. This is, like, making it work.
Speaker 2
Making it work. Yeah. Yeah. And so and my husband was totally great with that. Awesome. Open to that. And, you know, I I said to him, like, this time around, I'm like, hey. So you you, you know, you're sure you're on board with this? Like, we're gonna birth in a pool in my mom's bedroom in her house. Sounds awesome. Yeah. And he's like, yeah. Great. And I'm I'm like, you know, because he goes, babe, I saw you Right. Take every possible thing that could have been done to you and take it on the chin in that hospital. He's like, I'm not worried about this at all. Yeah. It's gotta be a breeze. Yeah. So, yeah. And, I would go so I started going for some checkups with Gloria. And the thing about, you know, what the question she asked me and the response that she gave me was that Gloria always gives you that response. Right. Right. Right. Right. No matter what it is. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. Because the and and, like, just the total opposite from the prenatal stuff in the hospital to to this woman where it's, like, never ever through two pregnancies now has she ever given me anything to worry about. There was never like, oh, this your urine is a bit Mhmm. You know, this your blood pressure is a bit nothing ever.
Speaker 1
And even if there was something, we can trust that the way she would present it would be totally calm and respectful and loving and a conversation, a curiosity. You know, it's it's we were talking about this on a different, episode around it's the difference of delivering information rooted in fear or love. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2
You know?
Speaker 1
And there's there's there's a real way to talk about pretty much anything in love.
Speaker 2
Yes. And there's and and that difference being that one is something wrong, and one is something totally natural that's going on with your birth. This is how it's flowing. You know? This is the direction it's taking. It's not wrong. It's totally natural. It just is. And, and so yeah. And and and that she said to me, so so you need to have this baby you need to have this baby vaginally because I don't want you coming back to me for number three after two c sections. Yeah. I don't want it. And I was like, I'm not having three kids. Would you know who you're talking about?
Speaker 1
Yeah. I was
Speaker 2
like, three? She's crazy. But she was, again, right. Very right. So, we sat down together, and, again, another one of her things is, tell me, like, let's let's visualize your your perfect birth. So let's let's go through like, walk me through, your perfect birth. And so you just speak on it, and she writes it down. And that's, like, you that's in your notes. You know? Like, okay. This is this is what she wants it to go like. And on the day Can you
Speaker 1
imagine if doctors did that?
Speaker 2
Yeah. I know. Like, let's
Speaker 1
I actually can't imagine that.
Speaker 2
No. Let's visualize your perfect outcome, perfect scenario. And so, yeah, we're at my mom's house, and, my daughter is now, like, you know, twenty, twenty three months, and and we're there. And I can feel it coming on. And so, again, you know, the what happened the first time was that I kept going into hospital before I was truly ready. You know? Like, I I should have waited and waited and waited and waited and waited until I was, like, in labor. You know? And so this time, I was like, okay. I'm gonna I can feel it coming. I'm gonna leave the bed. I'm gonna go get quiet by myself. And so I went into the other room into my mom's room, and she was gone. And so I I got to have this bed to myself and stay dark and stay quiet like a, you know, a a cat. You know? Mhmm. And, and they, you know, they were good at coming on stronger and stronger, and I had a bathroom close. And then and then when when my husband and and daughter naturally woke up, he he came in, and he was like, oh. And I was like, yeah. Yeah. And, so he said, should I call Gloria Ann? I was like, I think maybe because I'm I'm not like, I've this started around four AM, and so it's been three hours. Just let her know. Yeah. So I called Gloria at, around seven. She was like, okay. Great. I'll pack everything up, and I'll have I'll head over in a bit. And so yeah. And then so she came over in a bit. I just stayed laboring in the bedroom. We had various different loved ones coming to, mine, my daughter Mhmm. And and so that Gareth could stay with me. And, and so we we we blow got there. We blow we blow up the pool in in my mom's bedroom, so I was, like, bed right beside pool and then bathroom. So I was like, I had everything I needed right there. And as soon as the pool was ready, like, I was so excited to get into it because it's that's like, you know, it's like a big bath. Right? So you just get in this beautiful bath, and and then and then that's kind of the trick is that it can be so soothing and so comforting that they can also also slow you down a little bit. Right? You just get a little bit too comfortable. And but I was okay as far as glow is concerned. This this time around, she's like, take you take as much time as me. Uh-huh. You know? You're gonna birth exactly at the pace that you need to birth at.
Speaker 1
Even being supported to take it slow completely I mean, it's like you're healing one moment at a time getting to experience what you didn't get in your first birth. Right? To even just be told, take your time, babe. You know, that, like, is so inherently healing.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And the doctor I was talking about before, when I told her, like, I need my records. I'm I'm going to actually have a home birth with Gloria LeMay. She called me at home and to yeah. And and and berated me and told me I was reckless and irresponsible and wrote Did
Speaker 1
you pick up the phone?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had a it was like a real live Yeah. I had a live argument with her.
Speaker 1
OMG. What did you say back to her?
Speaker 2
I said, I that's I I understand that you feel that way. It's not gonna change my opinion. This is my choice. I think you've forgotten whose birth, but it is. And and we're going forward. Yeah. Thanks for your opinion. And and then she wrote on every single piece of my, transcripts or whatever that, she wrote choosing to birth with Gloria Lamay. Oh. Like, all this, like like, how she was so mad about it, like, like, reckless. Like, oh, by not not by my recommendation, like, like, every single page. Yeah. And and then and then when she finally came around around well, she didn't come around, but on the phone, the last thing she said to me was, listen. You know, you tore you know, because of you know, you have a real there's a real, possibility of you tearing, you know, because of it's it's been less than two years, all this nonsense.
Speaker 1
You're like, wait. What? There's a wrist?
Speaker 2
There's a wrist involved? Yeah. So she said just, you know, just at least do this for me. If you've been pushing for more if if you get any of you pushing for more than, two hours, you need to go to hospital. And so right there, again, she puts this, like, time frame on me Wow. That it was like that. And and and I don't care how confident you are. That's gonna be in the back of your mind. Somebody play planted that fear seed. Okay. But so yeah. And then Gloria did the opposite thing where she was like, yeah. Just take your time. You you're birthing your and and
Speaker 1
And you're gonna be spontaneously pushing, which is completely different and has yes. If you were on Epi and Pitt and doing directed aggressive pushing, I could see where she was going
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
With that fear mongering. Mhmm. Because directed pushing on drugs is fucking dangerous.
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, it's dangerous whether you're a VBAC or not. But Yeah. A a calm, loving, at home, spontaneous pushing stage. Mhmm. Ugh. It's a different scenario.
Speaker 2
Ugh. It's a different scenario. Keep going. Yeah. And so glow was she called you. They're the worst. And then so glow it was it was July July twenty third, and so my Glow was sat on our my mom's front porch reading a book in the sun. And I my husband and I were in my bedroom. She'd come in and chat, you know, see how we're doing. She never ever, what's the word, examined me. Never did never never entered my body, which I can't even count how many doctors, midwives, etcetera, put their fingers inside me the first time, and never the whole time. She would closer to the end, she had a mirror that she would put into the pool and just see, okay. How are we doing? But mostly, she just did it by the sound of, Yeah. My my voice and and the contractions. And, That
Speaker 1
is an authentic midwife right there.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so she so so then we birthed happily. It just it rolled on. My husband was in the pool with me as much as possible. She'd come in and say, you know what? Let's get you out of the pool for a bit so you're getting a bit too comfortable. Walk around. Let's get some gravity happening. And then when we got closer to the end, she was like, you know, maybe sit maybe because we're getting closer. May maybe sit on the toilet for a bit. Because then when you're on the toilet, you all of your inhibitions are gone. You're you're you're okay with stuff coming out of your body. Right? And so true enough, I went and sat on the toilet and, like, immediately crowned. Just like
Speaker 1
Oh. And
Speaker 2
then I'm now on the toilet with the crown, and I had to walk back from it was only, like, twelve feet, but it felt like I had a massive bowling ball between my legs. You did. Yeah. I was like, how am I gonna how do I get back to the pool? And so, you know, waddled back to the pool and and then got in oh, and sorry. I meant to say that. So I I I did push for about four hours. And like I said, no doctor would have let me do that. Mhmm. So, yeah. So we're pushing and, and, yeah, baby's coming. And so, I'm I'm at the pool, but, like, leaning over with my front body so baby's, like, coming backward, you know, from the back kind of thing. And her head came out, and then that was kinda it. And, so Gloria, who'd given me really like, had been coming and giving me sips of water and stuff, brought me some water. And then she went she got me some cranberry juice, and she was like, okay. So here's a bit of sugar. It's gonna give you, like, a little boost of, like, energy that you you haven't had, you know, haven't really been having. So I want you to to to take a big haul on this. And then for this next contraction, I want you to push like you have. Like, it's your life depends on it. This is the one.
Speaker 1
It's time to get your baby out.
Speaker 2
This is the one. Let's get this baby out. And so then, you know, the contraction came and I was like, okay. Like, you know, everything I got and, yep, then out she came. Out she poured the rest
Speaker 1
of her. And how how beautiful that that was the way she supported your daughter or your son. Is it it was a son. Right?
Speaker 2
It was a daughter. That's a daughter.
Speaker 1
That's your daughter's emergence, you know, instead of what almost all other midwives that I know of do is Yeah. They woulda had you lean back, get their hands in you, you know, pull the baby, you know, they would have gotten overly involved.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Because what we're talking about is that her shoulders were keeping her back. Right? And so Gloria and I everybody else I've talked to exactly that. I said, oh, their shoulders are stuck. Their shoulders are stuck. And and going And they
Speaker 1
weren't stuck actually. Stuck.
Speaker 2
They are just holding her back a bit, so let's dig deep and
Speaker 1
And you did it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And
Speaker 1
then you and then you get to emerge from this beautiful story, really with the deep, deep, deep knowing that you birthed your daughter. Right? Because this happens all the time with with VBAC stories that not only is it so important, so deeply important for a woman who's had a c section to to know that she could do it, but also then midwives that support VBACs take away that moment by it's too far to say doing it for them, but by pulling the baby out. Yeah. You know? And that's and, you know, I've talked to tons of women who find that understandably quite traumatizing.
Speaker 2
And, again, she never she didn't touch me or the baby at that. Like, she hasn't touched either of us.
Speaker 1
That warms my heart.
Speaker 2
My husband's in the pool. He caught he's catching my daughter. And and she and she said because, like, just to go to that point, she said afterwards, they were like, you know, Gloria, thank you so much. Like, we couldn't have done it without you. And she went, well, I didn't do anything. Yeah. She goes, I was I was just the feather in Dumbo's cap.
Speaker 1
I was what? The feather in Dumbo's cap?
Speaker 2
Yeah. She's like, you thought you needed me, but you didn't. You could do it for yourself. I was there for the confidence, you know.
Speaker 1
I love her story. It just it's everything. It's everything that she had the opportunity to take that away from you and she didn't.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
Right? And that is god. That's just freaking everything.
Speaker 2
Well, and also, that's what set me up for to free birth the third time. Exactly. She was like, I didn't do anything. You know? You did. You did it all. You and your husband did it all. So Yeah.
Speaker 1
She just loved you.
Speaker 2
Yeah. She was like, so next time, you're just doing it again. You
Speaker 1
know? Yeah.
Speaker 2
So yeah. You and and,
Speaker 1
Oh, I bet you cried so hard.
Speaker 2
Oh, god. The euphoria
Speaker 1
of that.
Speaker 2
Like and like you said, the healing that took place from from the, you know, from the first trauma was, like, so much that I thought I had lost or that I thought I couldn't do so much about my my womanhood, my power.
Speaker 1
You, like, came back to yourself.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's beautiful. And I had this beautiful, nine pound fourteen ounce baby. So, like, again, it's not like it was, oh, she's, you know, this is or, you know, that all that stuff because I'm I'm five foot nothing, and so that was always a thing for my doctors. Oh, you're so big. You're so big. You're really birthing big. And I was like, oh, this baby's too big for your small little body. So, yeah, we and and we it was it was just, it was beautiful. And so then, oh, and so then we sat outside afterwards. She'd come for checkups and things. And we sat outside afterwards, and she was like, so do you wanna hear do you want me to read you back the the visual the visual you had for this bird? And I was like, yeah. And she read it to me and my husband, and it was exactly Oh,
Speaker 1
I'm gonna cry.
Speaker 2
Like, it was exact. It was like she was like she she looked at Gerath and went, pretty, good powers of manifestation. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful.
Speaker 1
And what I love about your story is that it wasn't just random luck, you know? Like, you you created this and you had nobody to sabotage you. So of course you got the birth you wanted, most women do and that's not to take away from the rare complications and the rare times, you know, that change that plans need to change of course and that's very sad but, you know, but sometimes it just needs to happen. Right? But the vast majority of women that I hear who have the proper support and the right clarity and intentions, they absolutely manifest the birth that they need and want.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And and to that point, I should say that the first time around, my my mother was there. God love her. She like I said, she's she birthed both her babies at home. She she had these experiences, but it's a different thing when it's your daughter. And she wasn't particularly helpful the first time. So the second time, even though I was in her home, I was like, I can't have you here. You know? I'm sorry. And she knew too. She's like, yeah. I shouldn't be here.
Speaker 1
What a gift.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so like you said, knowing what that's what that support is that you need knowing yourself and and and enough to know, like, yes. I can have you in my space. You know I can have you in my space. Yeah.
Speaker 1
That's amazing. What a good story. Okay. So we are not done. We are not done.
Speaker 2
So then yeah. So then I my second daughter is about, again, about a year and a half at this stage, and I find out I'm too much to my surprise Oh my gosh. That I am pregnant again. And, so far, we have we have two girls, and and, we haven't been able to birth on Savory. And and so we have this third one coming, and we're like, wow. Really? Can we do this? Like, two's a lot. Really, great. And I know in the both in the back of our minds, we were like, well, this could be our boy, and this could be, a savory birth, and, you know, this could this is our family. This is, you know, what's gonna complete us. It's happening now. It's happening now. So, yeah. So I called Glow and and again just said, like, hey. This is happening. And she said, great. She said, so you're gonna have this one on Savory? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, great.
Speaker 1
She's She's like, great. Send me a birth announcement. Send me a note.
Speaker 2
Send me a photo. Yeah. So I so I, so, before this, I should say, because I was so empowered by my birth with Gloria and because I work a little bit in in the film industry, I really, really wanted to make a documentary about her. Aw. And so I've started down that road, with my friend who's a cinematographer, and we started, interviewing Gloria and, interviewing me. And we'd started this whole process before we knew I was pregnant. So when I found out I was pregnant, I was like, well, now we can document the whole journey of this pregnancy. So I would go down to visit Gloria and for my checkups, and we would film them, everyone. And so, that was really nice that we got just, like, sort of this, like, progression of this of this birth. And and one of the moments is when I went into her for my ultrasound. So this time, like, not only am I having, like, a am I planning a free labor on a remote island, but I'm not I don't have a doctor. I did I have not even told a doctor that I'm pregnant this time. Right. I'm just I'm I'm totally free birthing it, so no ultrasounds, no nothing. I'm just I know. I'm seeing midwives. That's it. And because Glow is in Vancouver and I'm on Savory, I'm also seeing the midwives that are in the this town that we live in now. Okay. Powell River. And, and so I see them for occasional checkups. I see I go down to see her. We film them. And I go to see Gloria for my ultrasound, which is she has this beautiful, like, book that's all different drawn pictures of what size your baby will be, like, what week or, like, what's happened, what's and so I think I was, like, you know, twenty six weeks or something. And so we just took a picture of this picture in front of the baby. So I have that as my That's cute. My only ultrasound for that.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 2
And, we we started setting up to do this thing, have a a free birth on a remote island with, you know, a first responder system, but you're still an hour and a half away from the hospital. And, and so it was really interesting because it's a small island. It's a small community. And because, like I said, I was born there. Most people know me. And it's really interesting to see these people, like, and their feedback, you know, welcomed or not.
Speaker 1
And their fear back.
Speaker 2
Their fear back. Exactly. Yeah. And I had even, like, a close a really close girlfriend, like, again, call me and be like, I I I don't think that you realize, like, what pressure you're putting on the island. I was like, what are you talking about? I'm What a weird way to say that. Like, you need to tell people, like, you need to, like, get people, like, prepared for if something goes wrong. And I was like, I'm out of this birth for if something goes wrong. I'm planning this birth for something going right. Like Oh,
Speaker 1
so it's none of anyone else's business.
Speaker 2
Exactly. Like, you want me to call these people and be like, just in case. Like, what kind of confidence is that showing me? So, anyway, we we, like you know, my husband is a first responder, so we put everybody's mind at ease as much as we could with, like, oh, yeah. We have all the emergency systems in place. Like, but you know what? Oh my god. Yeah. Like, we did it systems in place, like, but you know what? Oh my god. Yeah. Like, we did it once before, so we're we're confident. And in this community so Gloria is is at home. But so in this community, there is something called, the birthing kit. And because there's in London and around, there's a lot of of of, like minded home birthers, strong French community, and they, they're doing it. They're doing the same thing. They're just birthing at home, and they have a birth kit. And so inside is a pool, is, like a bunch of different books, and, that, like, natural scale weighing thing, and just everything you could need for a home birth. And so we got the kit, and, we had that set up and ready. And we were just it was just gonna be me and Gareth. And, and my mom was coming up to take the kids, to take my two daughters for when it, like, really this what started. And, and then the man who's doing the cinematography for the documentary was like, okay. Well, I'll try to come up that weekend. Like, my due date was November whatever. And because, like, I'll try to come up that weekend, but it's it's my wedding anniversary, and, you know, we'll see kind of thing. And I was like, I totally understand. It it's a long shot. Like, who knows if I'll even have it that weekend? So I get it. And, anyway, he was like, okay. Yeah. I can come up. I'm coming up. I I'll be up from, like, Friday to Sunday. I'm like, okay. Great. Friday was my due date. Nothing. Saturday, nothing. Sunday morning, I go into labor. And, again, I'm like, I take myself downstairs in the basement, Nicole, in, like, a a separate bedroom, just me, and I'm waiting for it. And then I was like, okay. Yeah. This is happening. I'm gonna get in the bath. I run a bath. And and I have a pretty big bath, and and and and I'm and I'm I'm thinking I'm comfortable. It's happening. And and I'm like, you know what? Maybe I'll just birth right here. And, again, Gareth gets up and he's like, oh, okay. It's happening. And I was like, yeah. It's happening. Can you call Phil, who's the cinematographer? And and and, and he's like, okay. I'll call him. So I called and said it's happening. Like, I know you're leaving today, but, you know, it's happening now. This is, like, seven thirty in the morning or something. And he's like, okay. I'll I'll come. I'll come. I'll set up. I'll come. Whatever. I'll come and see what I can get. And so he comes at, like, you know, it gets around nine, and and and I'm just happily birthing in the bath, and my daughters are still there. And,
Speaker 1
I'm How random was this guy Phil to you? Like, were you super tight with him?
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. I've known him since I was, like, eleven.
Speaker 1
Okay.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really little spread. Yeah. And oh, and sorry. I should add. Okay. So Phil Phil's relationship to Gloria, and the reason he was one of the reasons he was interested in in in being doing cinematography for the documentary is that his son was born with Gloria as well. Okay. Yeah. So, yeah. And
Speaker 1
It wasn't just some random
Speaker 2
guy you hired. No. I was just like, hey, Kevin. Come on in.
Speaker 1
My name's Phil. Just show some
Speaker 2
paper. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No I'm feeling, like, I'm feeling a lot of pain in the front. So I'm getting my, like, I'm getting my sensations, like, where you would get cramps, and I didn't have that at the time with my girls. I had it in my lower back. And, and, of course, I'm on island and by myself. I, you know, I don't and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, that that's where I would tear. Like, that's where the tear would be. Like, you know, I'm letting myself go, oh, no. Like, freak out. And so I'm like, yeah. It's just can you just call? And so he calls Gloria, and she she goes she goes, hello? Do we have a baby? And she didn't get was like, well, not yet, but we're we're we're on our way. We're in she's in labor. And he's like she goes, okay. Great. How's everything going? He's like, yeah. It's going great. And and she's like, okay. Well, just let me know when you have a baby. And he's like, well, I just she wants to ask, she's having these sensations in in the front. She's just and Antler is like, itchy. She goes, it just means your baby's anterior, not posterior. Right? That's that's all that's happening there. And I was like, oh, okay. Great. Okay. Thank you. She's like, okay. Bye. Claudia, talk to you soon. And, yeah, also, I should say, this is going back as well, that the midwives I was seeing in town, one of them very close to the end, after my baby had already been engaged, did a checkup on me and said, think you're transverse. Mhmm. And this is at, like, thirty eight weeks. And I was like, what? She goes and and and did the same thing where she looked at me and went, if you're transverse and your waters break, you have to go immediately to the hospital. And I was like, okay. Great. You know, the this whole time, I've had nothing to worry about. I you know, I'm just coming to you to for due diligence, really. Like, I don't even know why, and now you're telling me this. And so I called Gloria, of course, right away. I'm crying. I'm like, woah. I just saw the new wife in town. She thinks the baby might be transverse. She says, oh, Mitzi. Like, yeah. She's like, your baby is not transverse. This is just over the phone. And I'm like, she's like, okay. I'm gonna tell you why. She's like, that baby's head was engaged, and it it it imagine it has, like, a watermelon full of water on top of it. It has to be able to do a headstand out of your pelvis. And, like, it it's they didn't do that. I was like, oh, yeah. And so then whatever. But then so for the rest of the time, I'm still, like, having Gareth check. Does it feel like it's, like, does it feel like can you feel the head? Do you feel the head? Does it feel like it's down? Is it engaged? So, anyway, but on the day, I didn't have any concerns of that at all. I I felt like everything was totally normal and moving forward. And, and so I got to, I guess, what was transition. And in this time, Gloria had said in the visualization of this birth, she said, you had your perfect birth last time. What do you want differently this time? I said, I just want it to be faster. Because with Una, it was eighteen hours, and that's totally happy. But I was like, thirteen. Number three, I want just want it to be faster. And so I'd gotten to the point where I started being like, this is not going faster, and getting all, you know, mad and and going, this bathtub isn't big enough. Blow up the pool. You have to blow up the pool now. This thing is taking too long. And then got in the pool and realized, oh, I'm in transition. Yeah. That's why I'm so pissed right now. I'm in transition. And so, it was fifty minutes later, they had him in the in the book. Yeah. Yeah. Once yeah. And I So how
Speaker 1
many hours was that one?
Speaker 2
Just under five. Woah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Fast.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So and and so and and with my friend filming, and I I never knew where he was. He's so good. He just was, like, there. And and when when when he was born, oh, no. He had to go. He had to go. He had to leave the island. And he was like, guys, I gotta go. And as you said that, like, like, so, just as I got in the pool, he was shit. Yeah. And he was like, I'm like Give me fifteen. I'm like, yeah. Yeah. And so and so but I didn't know. I didn't like, I just was like Right. In the transition. I don't know what's happening. This is the worst. And then he and then he's like, I gotta go. He's telling and then I put my hand down and went, oh my god. I can feel the head. I can feel the head. And then he's like, Johnny's like, okay. I'll set back up. He was like, okay. I guess I'm missing my boat. Like, the head this is happening.
Speaker 1
Yeah. So who leaves at birth at at crowning?
Speaker 2
No one does. No one. No. This is not to be a baby. And so, yeah, same thing. And and so I birthed the same way, like, with my body, like, leaning over the bath, like, you know, my body resting on the front of on the bath and then or the pool and then baby coming from behind. So I I don't see baby first. Both times, my husband has seen Garrett's seen the baby before me. And, the first time with Yuna, he I could sort of he kind of went like, You know, like, it's another girl. Like, Like, he and he tried, like, you know, he's not he tried to, like, you know, but the we make these natural things come out of us. Right? Yeah. And this time, he grabbed he he he well, the the head was coming, and I was like, okay. Okay. What's out? What's out? Is the is his head out? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, okay. Another concussion. I'm pushing him. Like, what what else is out? Like, are his shoulders out? Are his shoulders out? And and Garrett's like, yeah. His shoulders out. And I was like, well, then pull the rest of him out. Like, what are we because he just, like, he was just waiting for me to do the whole thing. Of course. Yeah. If his shoulders are out, pull him. Like, I don't need to do anymore work. And, and then when he did, he brought him into his arms and I could hear him go, oh. Oh. This, like, whelp of joy, the yelp of joy that was like, it's a boy, and I just knew. And from when I was saying those things is his hat I was saying is his head
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
Are his shoulders. He I I just instinctually knew, and and and then when he made that noise, I knew knew. And and but what Gareth was doing and why he was so, like, you know, not, like, not quick with answering my questions about him what parts of him was because the cord was around his neck. Mhmm. And so Gareth was, like, trying again not to, like, freak me out and just trying to loosen it while he was catching everything else. And, and so then we brought when he came out, he was a little bit sort of, you know, dazed, a little bit, out of it, and he wasn't, like, crying, screaming like my experience with the other two. He was, like, not really coming too. And so and he was a little bit purpley blue, and and and we were like, okay. We're by ourselves again. And and, so he wasn't really coming to you. He's really sort of like, oh. And, so, eventually, I went Gareth called. I'm I'm not I'm not comfortable with this. I think it was about four minutes. I was like, call call her. And and, so we called her, and we're like, in case, like, you know, so, yeah, he's doesn't he's not he hasn't cried yet. He's just kind of like he seems a bit sort of. And she goes, well, is the cord still intact? And we're like, oh, yeah. She goes, well, then every he's still getting oxygen, so everything's fine. Like And
Speaker 1
a and a blue baby is an oxygenated baby.
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know? And it's just like all these and this thing is, again, it's all these fears. You're by yourself And all and every you know, in that moment, everything that every neighbor said that was like, you horrible people was like, oh my god. And, and yeah. No. And so then she goes, well, he's he's he's still he's getting everything he needs. But what I want you to do is just lay him tummy down to Gareth. Lay him tummy down with his, like, head at your palm and, just whack him on the back a little bit harder than you think you should. And so he did that, and then, yeah, I'm just like Yeah. He was like, goddamn it. I was like, I'm totally fine. I didn't know him already.
Speaker 1
He was like, I was born peaceful. Oh. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And so yeah. And then, you know, all the all the natural stuff after that of, birthing placenta and and all of the cutting the cords and everything. And but then, you know, we were home and we were we were on Savory, and it was like, in that moment, we you know, of course, above and beyond anything else, we had a beautiful baby, but we we also you know, we we got our boy and we and I got to birth on savory, you know, something that was a a childhood dream. And that I cool. Yeah. That I'd always, like, just taken for granted that that would just be easy.
Speaker 1
Right. A long road to get back to that.
Speaker 2
The community then responds, with love and food, you know, for the most part. I mean, there are people that that, you know, still don't I mean, I I saw the doctor weeks after I birthed, Yuna, my second baby.
Speaker 1
Oh, she lives on Savory?
Speaker 2
She lives in Power River, but she went to Savory Okay. For her summer holiday, and I saw her there. And I was carrying this, like, beautiful, strong, healthy baby, and I was already walk up and walking around. And and, that's the other thing I should say is post, you know, because we we we move so quickly. Because after having a c section the first time and then having a natural home birth, you feel like superwoman immediately. Like, ah, I did it. Like, I can do anything. And so we moved really quickly. And, when we got back to Savory from Vancouver, a friend of mine came over, another mother, and she saw me breastfeeding. And she was like, I think you might have mastitis. Aw. Yeah. And I was like, oh, no. And, and it was summer, and it's hot. And and I've been I've been fever y, and I I didn't know anything about it. And so, again, I called Gloria. And because the and the woman that said to me, she's like, yeah. I had to get antibiotics for that as an infection. Mhmm. Everyone you talk to, oh, you have to get antibiotics for that. That's an infection. And I was like, I'm not giving that. So I called Gloria and said, you know, this this looks like what has happened. And she said, Mitzi, I told you did too much Yeah. Too fast. You need to get in bed Yeah. With that baby. You need to let her drain whatever side, but don't ignore the other one. You need to skin to skin, and you need to stay there for as many days until it go you can't do anything. So, you know, you gotta get you gotta enlist help to with for your for your other daughter, and you've gotta, like, you know, Garrett's gotta be home. And then, you know and it's just it I tell that to every single mother I know now that's like, this is happening and this happened. Like, go to bed. Like, you're up too fast. And and, yeah, that's all we went to bed for two days, and it cleared up. Mhmm. That's all that's all that was required. We didn't have to go to the hospital, have to take anybody. I just don't have to go to bed.
Speaker 1
It's your body speaking to you, you know, to say slow down, get more support, reset. You know, but in, like, be like we talked about earlier, like, in this society, that's all about the quick fix and the quick, the quick everything. It's like, oh, or you could just take antibiotics and keep going. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Keep going. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. And not make it not that fear of making it worse. And this will fix it. Your other thing might not fix it. You know? Yeah. But it it it did and,
Speaker 1
wow. Go, Gloria.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Wish every woman had had a wise woman like that in her life. That's so, so helpful. She's such a good example of somebody who is an authority in birth, but not an authority over anybody.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Right? Like, and that's that's the wise woman way, like, it's we're not meant to do this shit alone, like, of course you didn't know certain things, how could you? Right? But then here is this other woman that that loves you, who does know quite a bit, obviously. Mhmm. Who could relay that information to you in a confident building, loving way, and not taking anything from you. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
It's
Speaker 1
just so profound and also so deeply sad that she's such a rarity.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that she's been so, you know, scrutinized.
Speaker 1
Yeah. I'm vilified. Criminalized. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
The whole thing. Yeah. But, yeah. So, no, she I'm very grateful to her. And, I should say that, like, Gareth, you know, he was my he was my doula. He was my midwife. He was going up pools and making tea.
Speaker 1
And And he he wasn't your doula or your midwife. He was your partner.
Speaker 2
He's my partner. Yeah.
Speaker 1
You know? He was your partner
Speaker 2
and Yeah.
Speaker 1
And he didn't need to be anything more than that because he loved you, he supported you, he held space for you. That's who he was, is he was your partner. Right? And and that is so profoundly important because lots of men and women, but lots of men witness their woman be abused in labor at the hospital and then can't he's walking by right now in the screen, but
Speaker 2
no one else is gonna be able to see that. Very a very quiet walk.
Speaker 1
Anyway, but lots of men see their woman be, you know, abused and sabotaged in the system, but then are themselves so traumatized and confused by what happened that they can't get to the place where he did. Instead, they're like, no, no, you needed a c section. Like, of course, we're not gonna go anywhere other than the place that can give you what you needed, you know, the whole Stockholm Syndrome thing.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 1
And so, yeah, I'm just very much appreciating that he had the willingness regardless of whatever nervousness he may have had or anything that he got it. He was just like, yeah, of course we're not going back, you know, do your thing.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. That's beautiful. Yep. Yep.
Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, you're super badass and so inspiring, and I hope this story goes far and wide because women need to hear these stories. You know, it's so normal and beautiful and powerful, and you just you made it happen.
Speaker 2
Thank you. And I told this story, post, yeah, I told this story to a woman I met in, like, a baby group. I'd never met her before, and she had just come out of a very traumatic birth, fourth degree tears. And she wanted to have a big family, and she thought that was it. Like, she was like, I I I don't know how to, like, I don't know how to do that again. So traumatized. And I told her my story, and I was like, no. You can do it. Like, this is what I did. This is like, you can do it. It's gonna take time, but it's it's remember, it's your show. And then I I didn't see her for, like, two years. And then the next time I saw her, she had a new baby. Yeah. And she went, oh my god. Oh my god. I thought you were an angel. I thought you were just, like, this made up thing. I'm like, made up. And she goes she's like, because of your story Mhmm. I went against the advice of four obstetricians that told me I all they all told me to a Lexi section. Ew. Because of your story, I went, no. I'm having this I'm having I'm having a natural birth. And she did. A beautiful Awesome. With another son now too. Three.
Speaker 1
Aw. Beautiful. Yeah. Yep. This is important, and this is what we can be for each other.
Speaker 2
You know? You're living the message, and it's inspiring.
Speaker 1
Well, thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 2
Thank you, and thank you so much for the work that you're doing. Oh, thank you. Appreciate it.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
