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Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea. So, Emily yes, Katya?
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Our mother loving retreat is happening. We're really excited. Ugh. Beyond excited. The countdown is on February third through tenth twenty twenty, baby. I also love that it's a full moon.
Speaker 1
And I love where we'll be. It's the most epic fifteen cabana eco lodge overlooking the ocean right here in beautiful Dominican Republic.
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Tell me there's an infinity pool. Yep. And amazing food? What about endless tropical fruit and beach time?
Speaker 1
Oh, yes. And don't forget that while we're there, humpback whales come to birth their babies in Samana Bay right where we'll be.
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh. What should we do the rest of the time? How about nourishing yoga and transformational workshops and dancing, drumming, connecting with mama Earth? Oh, so good. And the group of women who've already signed up are incredible. So what else? A bunch of surprises and gifts. Like what? Like a yummy massage for every woman.
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Okay. What else?
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I'm not telling. Everyone loves surprises. Mother lovin
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Without the g. Retreat
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dot com. Today on the show, I sit down with Samantha Zipporah, an educator on body literacy and womb sovereignty with an emphasis on conscious contraception and pregnancy release. We cover a lot in this episode focusing on contraception, abortion, and miscarriage outside of the medical paradigm. Please remember that we are not medical providers, and nothing in this episode should be taken as medical advice. Okay.
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So Yes.
Speaker 2
Here we are. I'm very excited for this. We've been, it's been a long time coming, and so let's just start with anyone who's not familiar with you. Let's just start with a little bit of who you are.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I am Samantha Zipporah.
Speaker 2
Hey, yo. Hey. Coming to
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you live from Boise, Idaho. So this is my hometown. I always say that my first doula job was here, at North Junior High School when I was twelve years old, and somebody asked how to put in a tampon. And I talked her through her anatomy and helped her understand the difference between her urethra, her vagina. Oh, to be a fly on that wall. Make sure she was comfortable. Yeah. And I I ended up, through my debate class still where I'm twelve year old Sam here. I went to a youth lobby training and ended up, there was a Planned Parenthood table at this youth lobby training. I ended up volunteering at Planned Parenthood lobbying with legislature about underaged abortion, about abortion access for
Speaker 2
both of
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them to be, in eighth grade. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Wow.
Speaker 3
And so I've been on this path a really long time. It was all tied up with the ancestral trauma and my lineage. But I I worked at Planned Parenthood primarily as a volunteer and then as a preteen sex educator and as a peer mediator, throughout my teens. And then one of my best friends got pregnant and wanted to have a baby, when I was nineteen. So I started studying pregnancy and birth and started attending births and thought I wanted to be a midwife. I worked as a professional doula for almost the entirety of my twenties in the hospital systems in Portland, attending a handful of home births. And I was simultaneously teaching fertility awareness classes because I discovered fertility awareness also when I was nineteen, and I'm super passionate about that. It's, it's kind of a religious sort of thing for me. Ovulation is Totally. Yeah. But I yeah. I'd always been helping people have abortions and, miscarriages as well as giving birth, but I had only ever professionalized my birth services.
Speaker 2
Well, that's what's allowed. Right? That there's
Speaker 3
a Right.
Speaker 2
That was the
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laid out for that. Yeah. Right. And so my process of kind of graduating from identifying as a birth doula to Congratulations. Yeah. To me, like, I'm a witch, and I'm a medicine woman and reorienting, like, how I feel about earning a living in the market economy, sharing traditional women's wisdom, was all tied up actually with sort of coming out of the closet as somebody who supports abortion as well as birth. And You
Speaker 2
mean you're you're you're pro choice?
Speaker 3
Yes. Yes. I'm like, whatever you want to do with your uterus, I wanna make sure that you have wonderful education and support Mhmm. To do what you would like to do with that power. It's really profound. So today, I see clients online. I teach online. I have several ebooks, and I I help with the entire womb continuum is the language that I use, this never ending interconnected cycle. The term full spectrum is gaining a lot of popularity in the doula and midwifery community, and, I feel I'm really passionate about language and etymology and being very specific as much as possible with how I speak, and I feel like full spectrum really, implies that there's a finite beginning and end or that their opposite ends on a spectrum and that abortion is on one side of the spectrum. And Well, it it is. Because it's on the other side of the spectrum.
Speaker 2
But that's true, socially. Right? So birth doulas are just birth doulas. They're not trained in miscarriage, stillbirth, and abortion. They're not leaving their three day training ready to walk with women in the full spectrum of reproductive experiences. So, it's, you know, obviously you already know this, but, you
Speaker 3
know, if the Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I mean, it's it's it's interesting that we even have to identify as full spectrum because we're really then pointing to, the compartmentalization of other women supporting women, you know, who who have compartmentalized the way in which they will support women. I know so many doulas who would never support an abortion, or a free birth, you know, but all day long would go to elective c sections. Okay. You know? Whatever. But that is not a that is not a full spectrum support person.
Speaker 3
Right. Yeah. Well, yeah, the the compartmentalization, of our bodies and our experiences, our sexuality, our reproductive health, is part of the systems of oppression. Right? The like, commodifying this very specific skill set of, like, I will help you attend hospital births or caesarean sections. And, like, I don't know anything about the menstrual cycle. Like, I don't know anything about abortion. I mean, that was always really bizarre to me because of the way that I think and the way that I learn when I was more frequently active as a professional birth worker and going to conferences and professional association meetings and whatnot. But so many birth workers had really horrible experiences with menstruation and didn't know anything at all about fertility awareness. Mhmm. And that even the ones that were supportive of my work as I started being more public about supporting miscarriage and abortion as well as birth, that many, like, well established, wonderful birth doulas would, like, see me on the sly and be like, how do you do it? Or they'd call me or text me when somebody was going through it and was like, what do I do? Like, how do I do an abortion? And I was like, all of your skills. Right. You just of your skills that you applied at birth work for this. Right. So, yeah, I love that you use the term pregnancy release, really early on in our conversation already, and I love to to lay that out for your listeners, as some some healthy language to, acknowledge and support this reality that when people have miscarriages and people have abortions, they were pregnant. There was a pregnancy Mhmm. And it was released. Mhmm. And anytime that there's pregnancy, there's profound alchemy, right, both physically and spiritually and and emotionally. And the process of going through the transformation from being not pregnant to being pregnant to releasing that pregnancy and then having a postpartum period that is actually a held and sacred part of your transformation, is a lot of the medicine and the perspective that I'm wanting to offer, and normalize.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
That however that pregnancy ends, you were pregnant. You have a pregnancy release.
Speaker 2
Right. Let's acknowledge that.
Speaker 3
Let's acknowledge it. We need community. We need education. We need support, And some level of reverence regardless of what your spiritual beliefs are personally, like, the alchemy of creating a pregnancy and releasing it is really profound even if you're just on sort of, like, the physics Mhmm. Einstein sort of concept of, like, fucking energy can't be created or destroyed. Mhmm. Yeah. We are conduits for this profound vital life force.
Speaker 2
Whether we wanna be or not.
Speaker 3
Whether we wanna be or not. And, like, being intentional about the way that we navigate that power and move it through our bodies is healing and healthy.
Speaker 2
And that's such a perfect segue into the whole intention of this episode together, which is to dive into, what, contraception and pregnancy release outside the medical paradigm can look like and what it looks like, in in your work as a as a medicine woman of this of this trade and of the information that you're you're sharing and helping women access. And so, obviously, it's in total alignment with with this podcast to talk about our options when Right. A pregnancy happens, to us or with us, and and whether we wanted it or we didn't, you know, kind of regardless of our feelings around it, if a if a loss occurs or if we choose, to do what we can outside the medical paradigm, to release that pregnancy and, you know, we don't even necessarily need to go too far down the rabbit hole of, of the truth, which is that until women are able to choose, you know, to choose to carry a pregnancy or not, assuming it's viable and that it would biologically, you know, carry, women can never be completely free, right, and that women Right. Wholeheartedly, you know, that both of us, I'm sure I could speak for you to say, one hundred percent need the access to the wisdom and knowledge, to have more autonomy over their experiences and over their body and over, the choice to carry a pregnancy or not. And so, in that, then of course, what we both interact with all the time then is we know women who, do not or cannot, or will not, you know, stay pregnant, and what are their options? You know, if they don't wanna go have, what is so commonly a very traumatic and and very, physically and spiritually, emotionally, and mentally painful experience in the system. You know, and I and I know so many women who kinda have one foot into free birth and one foot out, or or let's just say one foot, or even both feet out of the medical paradigm, and they don't go to doctors, they don't use the allopathic model, but then when they have a pregnancy that they don't know what to do with other than go get a surgical, procedure or go, you know, get get, you know, pills that would help release the pregnancy. And so that's still an interesting piece here where, yeah, where I think most women, because we don't have that knowledge and wisdom, because it's been so very intentionally and intensely taken from us, we're still very trapped by our pregnancies period and pregnancy in in the medical paradigm. So, you know, just for everyone listening who's who's going on this journey with us today, the the centered topic is, what it can look like to practice contraception outside of the medical paradigm and to, encourage pregnancy release outside the medical paradigm. And then, if we have time, we've covered miscarriage outside the medical paradigm before, but if we have time, I definitely wanna, of course, pick your brain about of your feelings around.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, I feel, in speaking about pregnancy release options that include abortion, we are including miscarriage because all of the physiology education that is needed to handle an abortion is also needed to make intelligent self directed choices about resolving miscarriages because most miscarriages don't complete themselves fully on their own.
Speaker 2
Really? I didn't
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know that.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Cool.
Speaker 3
Right. So that's that's, that's why so I have a a training for practitioners that it it's online, and then I teach it as well live sometimes. That is miscarriage and abortion care because it's the same physiology education. Yes. Many miscarriages do resolve themselves naturally, but, many people who will experience miscarriage or the beginning of one, also get sucked into the medical model of care and then end up getting what is common in abortion procedures
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Speaker 3
To resolve that. Right. And the the idea that you might use acupuncture or herbs or that you might feel comfortable waiting a handful of weeks to see if your uterus is capable of resolving it on its own, isn't like, the the fear around death Right.
Speaker 2
If we don't suck out all the pregnancy tests right now before you go home, you're gonna bleed out and die.
Speaker 3
There I mean, of course. And there are re there are risks of of infection, and hemorrhage when you have an incomplete abortion or an incomplete miscarriage.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But statistically, they're not huge. I believe that they're well under ten percent. And when you
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know what those things look like, then you will
Speaker 3
need medical care when you need medical care.
Speaker 2
Exactly. They're pretty fucking obvious. Right.
Speaker 3
And so not rocket science. It is not rocket science. So I just wanna place this in context. Right? We could like, studying the anthropology and the ancient civilization sort of stories and narratives of how we navigated fertility and pregnancy, in different matriarchal cultures is also super fascinating. But I I wanna just place the medicalization of our fertility and pregnancy, whether it be contraception, birth, abortion, miscarriage, all of that, firmly in this parallel with the industrialization of agriculture and this reality that there is a fucking paper trail.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
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It is not a mystical or mythological, like, gee, how did we end up here in patriarchy Right. Not knowing anything and thinking that we have to depend on institutions and bureaucracies and people with
Speaker 2
And women knowing nothing about themselves.
Speaker 3
Right. Like, that is it's not right. There's different right? Patriarchy is how many thousands of years old? But very specifically in the last hundred hundred and fifty years, like, there are specific individuals and organizations that benefit from us not knowing how to take care of ourselves, us not knowing how to feed ourselves. That book, Nurses, Midwives, and Witches, or Witches, Nurses, and Midwives, Barbara Einrich, and I forget the other author, is really great to look at. Yeah. But yes, I talking about the sociopolitical, and, like, economic context of how this knowledge got lost could be an entire podcast episode as well. Our fertility is not a disease. Most fertility experiences do not require medical attention. We deserve access to medical care when we need medical care, and ovulating and being fertile, having an unwanted pregnancy, having a pregnancy loss, having a full term birth and giving birth. These are not things that are inherently necessary to have medical care for. Right. You and I, that's that's we agree on this. Yes. We are of one place. And so I wanna start with just this conversation of, like, preventative care and contraception, including that in the conversation. And then I don't wanna spend too much time on it, but I want to acknowledge that, while abortion is health care and I see it as a social good and as basic health care, Ideally, if we do not desire a pregnancy, we would prevent it by not putting sperm in our vaginas when we're fertile.
Speaker 2
Yes.
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And being aware of when that fertile window is, which for most people is only three to six days.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
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Being able to communicate about that and know about that.
Speaker 2
Having consensual sex.
Speaker 3
Having consensual sex, acknowledging the fact that with rape culture and, like, general communication skills around sexuality, that even if all of the individuals that ovulate knew when it was, that being able to communicate and advocate for their boundaries is not something that is easy for a lot of us or available.
Speaker 2
Men being willing to wear condoms. Right? There's that whole narrative of Right. There's no way. Hates condoms. Okay. Yeah. And so I should say at this point, we do have a whole podcast episode on fertility awareness methods that you can, you know, go and listen to if if, if this is a new concept to you listening to to this conversation today.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I have a caught
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up on that. Ebook. Oh, nice. Perfect.
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I made a little punk zine with glue, stick, and scissors when I was twenty. Cute. On fertility awareness method?
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When I first,
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yeah, when I first discovered, I could tell when I ovulated. I'm reading about it. And you can download it for free on my website. Awesome. And then I'm also teaching an online conscious contraception Skillshare, that's starting on Beltane on May first. Okay. And we can talk a little bit more about that later. It covers anatomy and physiology, the physical symptoms, and then also go into Tao and Tantra and Kabbalah Cool. And understanding the energy anatomy of fertility and how to work with our hyperdimensional beings to align our physical actions for preventing pregnancy with our spiritual life force.
Speaker 2
Hell, yeah. And it's such a good point because, you know, people all the time ask me about conscious conception, but no one really ever asks me about conscious contraception, and it's all the same thing.
Speaker 3
It's all the same. It's all the same. The same tools. And if you want a conscious con conception, then it's also, like, wise to be practicing conscious contraception.
Speaker 2
Right. Because most of the time Right. Most of the time, you don't wanna get pregnant. Yeah. Most of the time in your life that you want. Right. The vast majority
Speaker 3
of people with uteruses on the planet right now would like to avoid pregnancy. Yeah. Most of us. Yeah. And that was, like, when I was studying to be a midwife specifically, what just I was like, how do I be a contraception or an abortion midwife?
Speaker 2
Yeah.
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Like, how do we find this kind of care and support that acknowledges our holistic being? For the vast majority of our experience having a uterus, which is we do more bleeding than birthing. Here's the first piece of anatomy and physiology that is very little known that I wish was common knowledge for those of us who are wanting to avoid clinical and medical care in general, which is when you have a conception happen, you're not immediately pregnant. Right. Right? And, like, this is talking very specifically about anatomy and physiology. We're not like, what are the spiritual implications of, like, when do spirit and matter connect? Yeah. That's a whole other really beautiful and fascinating conversation as well. But when the sperm meets the egg, you have what is called a little zygote. It's in the fallopian tube for almost
Speaker 2
I'm gonna insert and say
Speaker 3
The egg tube. The uterine tube. The uterine tube. Sorry. Same tube. Fuck yes. Fallopian Yeah.
Speaker 2
Motherfucker who named our uterine tubes after
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Not fallopian. I really appreciate fuck eponyms.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So for anyone listening, the new term is uterine tube. That's what it is. And sorry.
Speaker 3
I like tube. I use Okay. Yeah. That's cute. That's cute. In my classes. That's cute. Yeah. It's also New New Zealand Women's Body, the Federation of Feminist Women's Health. That's what they use.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. That's cute.
Speaker 3
The sixties self helpers. But, yes, I agree that we should stop using eponyms, and I that's when you call the anatomy part by whoever supposedly discovered it or named it and Discovered it? Go fuck yourself. Moving. Yeah. Pulling all of our gyne terms away from Yeah. Old, white, dead dudes who said they discovered them and calling them what they are. Yeah. So uterine tube, egg tube.
Speaker 2
He was Italian, but yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3
So egg and the sperm like, ideally, we prevent the egg and the sperm from meeting if they don't wanna be pregnant. And I guess to to to premise this all because we've kind of been weaving a, a winding path. What I'm gonna talk you through right now is options from the accidental pregnancy forward, as I understand them. Right? And I am not all knowing. I there might be other options that I don't even know about or understand. But what I'm gonna share with you is what I would offer to a client, if they had a suspected or confirmed unwanted conception or pregnancy. With that, you know, caveat of, like, hey. Let's avoid pregnancy Of course. If you don't wanna be pregnant and be aware of our cycle and use healthy conscious methods of contraception. But say you accidentally get sperm in your vagina because these things happen. Mhmm. And the sperm meets the egg. You have a zygote. It's in your it's in the egg tube for about three days before it even makes it into the uterus. And then when it makes it into the uterus, it takes an average of another seven to twelve days for it to embed itself into the endometrium and for what is called implantation to occur where that it's been a blastocyst is a technical term, where that is actually connected to the maternal blood network.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 3
So if you are aware of your cycle, practicing fertility awareness, conscious contraception, and you know that you accidentally expose yourself to sperm, you have one to two weeks to interfere with implantation, usually. Obviously, everybody's bodies are a little bit different. But generally speaking, when you have a con conception, that doesn't mean you have what I would call a pregnancy. And plant medicine is really wonderful and powerful and able to alter our biochemistry and our hormonal makeup really well if you know what you're doing. And there's not a one size fits all. Right. But, I with my own personal body and with my near and dear that I've supported, I have seen a hundred percent success of using plant medicine to inhibit implantation Mhmm. Which is very different physiologically than having an actual abortion. Right. Totally. When you start working with plant medicine before you miss your period during this time period where if the progesterone in your body and your endometrium and the body temperature are not just right, you will be able to pass it out of your body.
Speaker 2
That's amazing.
Speaker 3
I really love using plant medicine in this way, as a plan b, not as contraception, as emergency only because I think that the menstrual cycle and ovulation are beautiful and wholly important parts of our ecosystems that we need to support and encourage even when we're avoiding pregnancy. I would never do anything to alter healthy endocrine system unless you're interfering in an emergent situation. Mhmm. But yeah. So plant medicine and implantation inhibition, understanding the distinct difference between what an actual abortion is. And in my mind, an abortion is after that blastocyst has embedded itself in the endometrium and connected to the maternal blood network.
Speaker 2
Right. That's a pregnant
Speaker 3
woman. You need an abortion.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
That's not implantation inhibition. Yeah. That makes sense. And even conventional folks like Planned Parenthood suggest that getting a copper IUD is a reasonable way to inhibit implantation. You can always take it out a week or two later.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
That's another conversation in DIY. IUD removal is one of my favorite things to support people through. It's, like, the most literal womb sovereignty.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's not that complicated.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's super easy. Okay. So but say that somebody has an unwanted pregnancy at this point.
Speaker 2
So wait. Are sorry. Are we gonna get into what those medicines are Oh. For for that period of
Speaker 3
You know, there are literally hundreds of plant medicines that will alter your biochemistry and make it inhospitable for favorites, personally, with my body, blue and black coache with angelica sinensis. I'm not sure if I'm pronouncing the Latin right. Don Quai or Angelica. It's not the specific plants are not as important as the biochemical properties that they carry. And so you wanna be taking plants working with plant medicines that are inhibiting your progesterone directly, increasing your estrogen
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And increasing oxytocin and circulation. And so there are infinite combinations of plant medicines that can do that. Anything that is labeled an amenagogue amenagogues are on the the scale of mild to really strong, and many of them have these qualities. There's a really great resource. Natural Liberty is the best, most in-depth plant medicine education that I know of. Cool. And it's under the premise of abortion. But on this, spectrum of or continuum of education that I'm discussing here, everything that would inhibit an implantation if you take it before you miss a period has the potential also to expel an established pregnancy.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 3
It's the same plants. It's the same education. And what I recommend and practice myself is that if you would desire to have plant allies on your team for a potential implantation inhibition or abortion in the case of an emergency is that you start studying and spending time with and ingesting these plants in much smaller doses Right. In your premenstrual week every month so that you develop an a personal relationship and you understand the energetics. You know, in the belief system that plants are sentient and plants are elders, this this feeling of, like, you're developing your community and your family that you would turn to if you needed help. Aw. And that you're not, like, calling people up in the middle of the night. Strangers. You're like, what the I'm so freaking out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
Speaker 2
love that.
Speaker 3
You're just like, hey, you know, I would really like to menstruate. Menstruate. And then that there's also just a very different thing both physically and psychologically. When we're inhibiting implantation, what I encourage is that you work with those plants really intensely in the premenstrual week so that instead of interrupting a natural cycle, we're supporting one. Instead of being like, I'm afraid of pregnancy. I don't wanna be pregnant, Framing it as, like, I love menstruating. I'm excited to menstruate. Mhmm. And you're working with these plants to make sure that that's what your body is gonna do next, that it's not going to be nourishing this little blastosis turning it into an embryo that you're like, I'm ready to menstruate.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I love that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So, yeah, understanding all of our options for how to end a pregnancy or how to expel a partial miscarriage, would be our next chapter.
Speaker 2
I love the simplicity of it's just so valuable that what you're talking about of that that two week ish period. Obviously, ideally, we're using that not routinely, but for emergencies and for the oopsies and and obviously Yeah. You know, all of that. I think, yeah, you made such a good point of making that really clear. This is not like a monthly practice. Yeah. Not at all. But I really like, the simplicity of remembering that when we're tuned in and when we've created internal resources and and allied, you know, plant medicine that, the simplicity of it really is to just change your hormones, essentially. Right? You're just changing your hormones or assisting them to be different so that a pregnancy does not occur. Because like you said, it's such a specific I forget the word you used, but it's such a specific environment, that it that the body needs in order to implant successfully. And so to, to alter that with intention, and with clarity, I just love that. That's such a profoundly different way of thinking about this. It's really cool.
Speaker 3
Right. Yay. Yay. Yeah. I call it the sacred yes, and I'll I guess I'll diverge for a moment of philosophy from from the anatomy and physiology because I use this conversation about the sacred yes and the sacred no, in contraception and abortion conversations in my classes and with my clients all the time. And this reality that when we are avoiding or ending a pregnancy, we are not doing that in a vacuum because we're anti baby. We're doing that because there is something else that we wanna conceive and gestate and birth and nourish. And while our no is powerful and our no is sacred, really claiming and identifying what our yes is is the medicine that is needed to help heal these experiences. And that especially in a contraception practice that, like, identifying what you want to bring your fertile energy to.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And and also when we're choosing to end a pregnancy, being able to really own and honor and love what it is that we do want to bring into the the the world.
Speaker 2
It's just so feminine. It's so feminine and so wise and refreshing. Very balanced. Beautiful. Yeah. So then let's move into concluding a miscarriage. Is that what you
Speaker 3
that was what it was? Say release. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And what happens once implantation has occurred. And so maybe somebody, sees the the positive on the pregnancy test and is like, oh, fuck.
Speaker 3
Yep. And so whether we're in or out of a clinical setting, right, I believe that, rather than making a statement of, like, only we should do this at home or, like, you failed if you enter clinical system, etcetera, that I'm framing it with the physiology, and purely, like, understanding that the the systemic abuse of of us Right. Of our bodies and our choices in the system is pervasive. Understanding that the industry right, because med like, the medical industry is an industry. It's not a healing modality. Right. It's but it does have really What? It has really useful tools. Right. And I think that we can be conscious consumers of the goods and services from that industry.
Speaker 2
In in theory and yet because Oh, gosh. So oppressive Yeah. There's no way to know, just like with birth, there's no way to know if you're gonna be treated with respect and autonomy when you go in for your surgical abortion. You know? It's it's I mean, you know how many trauma stories we we hold of of women we know who who have had just horrible, horrible abortions, even though maybe they're only there for in in the actual, you know, clinical setting for what? You know? The the surgicals are only, like, fifteen, twenty minutes. But Yeah. That can can totally mess them up because the way they're treated.
Speaker 3
It's so intense. It's hard to be conscious consumers
Speaker 2
of an of an abusive Inherently abusive Yeah.
Speaker 3
Dynamic. Amen. Yeah. A woman, however you wanna language it. And, also, just always, like, bringing in an expanded perspective. Like, I was a patient advocate at Planned Parenthood. I attended four to five clinical procedures a day on my volunteer shifts, for a couple years. And I can say without any doubt that the clinical abortions that I supported were all, like, by and large, way more humane and peaceful than the hospital births I attended.
Speaker 2
Oh, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, where we had volunteers in LA, that clinic was amazing. And they they were kind And my first clinical abortion that I
Speaker 3
supported was, like, a moon fairy nurse midwife, like, of Asian descent, this, like, tiny woman with a round face and literally moon earrings. Aw.
Speaker 2
Wait. The one having the abortion?
Speaker 3
No. The woman giving the abortion. Gotcha. The nurse midwife who was performing the procedures, and she was, like, so magical and gentle.
Speaker 2
And that's the thing, and and I'm kind of a broken record about this. It's not that there aren't wonderful, loving
Speaker 3
people in the system, but
Speaker 2
the system is abusive. And so it doesn't mean that there aren't wonderful people trying to make it work within an inherently abusive system, and that's the whole problem, right, is you don't know what you're gonna fucking get, and that makes me very nervous. But anyway, so, yes, of course, they ideally would just be tools that we can use. Like you said, everyone deserves that and access to that. But so
Speaker 3
When I include those converse that conversation here, and I I completely agree with you that the the structure of the system is inherently horribly abusive and the power dynamics are Gross. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 2
Okay. So let's get into
Speaker 3
So anatomy and physiology of abortion to help demystify it. And this also, all miscarriages, the medical terminology, the clinical terminology for miscarriage is abortion. Every single type of a miscarriage is technically an abortion. An abortion is when what was in the uterus that was pregnancy moves out of the uterus. Whether it happens spontaneously or on purpose, the anatomy and physiology education that we all need as individuals to make intelligent decisions and as care providers to support the people that we're providing is the same whether it is deliberate Yeah. Or just a physiologic spontaneous release of a pregnancy. Mhmm. And as I said before, many spontaneous miscarriages are partial and then all of the same education applies to safely empty the uterus.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So dividing our options into two different, categories, the first one we have discussed a little bit already with plants, but the first category is chemical. And chemical means of abortion are when you alter the biochemistry of your body so that it moves the contents of your uterus out. It's an inside job. Mhmm. You're changing the endocrine system function, and you're manipulating the nerves and muscles of your body through chemical disruption. The other category is physical, and that is using the laws of physics to remove tissue from the uterus through suction.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
The methods by which we can have a chemical and a physical or a physical abortion can be for the most part, most of them can be safely employed in or out of a clinical setting. When we're talking about a chemical abortion, we already discussed plant medicine a little bit, and I will rename those three actions that are ideal to be working with when we're working with Materia Medica to alter our biochemistry, to change our hormones so that we're not pregnant or not able to sustain a pregnancy. We want to inhibit progesterone, increase estrogen, and increase oxytocin, which causes contractions. The pills that can do this that are offered by the clinical model of care and are also very, very widely available online. The website plan c is probably the most expansive directory of online providers, and there's been a lot of media around this organization, Aid Access, recently if people wanna learn more about that, and the implementation of telemedicine to give access to the abortion pills. And is that
Speaker 2
Mifie and Miso that you're buying online? Yep. And sorry, this sounds so ignorant, but You're okay. I didn't know that was legal in America. Right? Like, I knew underground wise it happened, but so is that currently of course, that could change any freaking moment, but, like, currently plans be
Speaker 3
So the FDA has just asked Aid Access to cease and desist.
Speaker 2
Ew. Snap.
Speaker 3
They're in the middle of a thing. But just for educating yourself about the options and that this is, like, a massive NGO at plan c. I wouldn't say massive, but it's, like, a well established NGO that is out there publicly.
Speaker 2
Are they located in the States? Yeah. Okay. Yep. Badass.
Speaker 3
Yes. Also worth mentioning, the SIA legal team, which is out of Berkeley, California. SIA stands for self induced abortion.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And so they have a really wonderful staff that are available for legal counsel or care Cool. For anybody who is wanting to, consider their options or if they needed help and were under persecution.
Speaker 2
Wow. Okay. So chemistry versus physical. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Thanks for bringing it back to the nudge. Yeah. It's the pills. I wanted people to understand how the pills work. And so, the standard clinical practice of the abortion pill is two different drugs. Mifepristone is the first drug. It is not FDA approved for abortion. It's an anti cancer medication. Anti cancer medication that interferes with folic acid production and the health of the embryo. You take that medication first to stop the embryo from growing anymore. It terminates the growth of the pregnancy, and then they will send you home with the misoprostol pills, which are usually taken in a few different doses. Mhmm. And misoprostol also not FDA approved for anything related to uteruses or pregnancy. It's a stomach ulcer medication. Mhmm. And that one affects the smooth muscles in your body, which your uterus is made of smooth muscle tissue, and it will contract the smooth muscles of your body.
Speaker 2
You know, you know, for everyone listening, obviously, induction, a Yeah. A core, a a pillar of induction is Cytotech, which now we're talking about it in this other way of it, of it What's the right word?
Speaker 3
It's the same way. We're talking about abortion,
Speaker 2
and then it's Creatating
Speaker 3
contractions in the smooth muscles of your body, which are your uterus. And so
Speaker 2
I wonder though because Cyto Tech, has been getting more, you know, more publicity for killing women. Yeah. I wonder how that works. If it has the same risks taking it if if if, you know, take when you take it as irrelevant to the mortality statistics, that's something we should look up or that I'm just now thinking about because, you know, I I've only ever really heard about it killing women in inductions with term babies. You know? And, of course, I'm not saying this lightly at all. It's just a horrific fact. And it's not FDA approved, not as if we would even trust the FDA, but even still, the fact that it's not even technically legally supposed to be used, and yet it's being used all over, for in hospitals with term babies and also for women in in the clinical setting, to release a pregnancy. Anyway, so I I'm curious about that one because of the the the the reality that it has serious side effects. And and I guess my question, I'm not expecting you to know is, does it have the same level of risk in an early pregnancy as it does in a term, or if
Speaker 3
that might that might be irrelevant? I don't think that it does. One really great resource for looking into it further, would be iPass, the I IPAS dot org. International provider of abortion supplies, I think, is the and they're kind of like the World Health Organization of abortion access and medication and tools. And because they work so much with third world populations, and community health work workers, they have a lot of data Cool. And really whole like, more holistic information about, like, what is actually safe rather than what is politically condoned. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Totally. Right? About abortion. And so they they have the stat, that misoprostol abortion alone without mifepristone is seem to be about eighty percent effective, which is quite high. Mhmm. And so misoprostol is part of the pharmacopoeia that many home midwives Right. Can carry. And what I have seen some people do is work with plant medicine and misoprostol
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
To avoid needing to go to a clinic.
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah. Makes sense.
Speaker 3
Another thing worth mentioning as we're discussing misoprostol and knowing all your options is that, the clinic recommends putting the pills between your gums and your cheek, and they don't often tell people that there's an option to put them next to your cervix.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
It tends to work a lot slower and can take up to a day or longer. But women women can't be
Speaker 2
trusted with putting something inside them without a mattress.
Speaker 3
Can't touch themselves. They don't know where their cervixes are. Exactly.
Speaker 2
Of course, they can't put pills up there.
Speaker 3
And the reality of most people wanting to do this, get it over in a day and go back to work, taking putting them in your mouth does make the medication work a lot harder and faster. Mhmm. But it then goes through your entire digestive system and is most likely going to contract your stomach and your intestines a lot more intensely than if you place them next to your cervix.
Speaker 2
So when you say next, can you give me a little bit more of a idea of what that means next? Like, but before the cervix or in it? Or As
Speaker 3
far up as you can get it, you wanna, like, nestle it between your vaginal wall and cervix.
Speaker 2
So like like a tampon? Exactly. Okay.
Speaker 3
Well, I don't know. I wouldn't put a tampon that high up.
Speaker 2
Like a giant tampon that goes
Speaker 3
all the way through your body. Else. Okay.
Speaker 2
So right. A tampon does not go into your cervix. Right?
Speaker 3
You just wanna feel and try and tuck it between the vaginal wall and the cervix if you Okay. Are able. Got it. So that's just another option whether like, wherever you source your mesoprostol, just knowing that it's an option and tends to have less vomiting and intestinal cramping, but has a much slower onset, but statistically equally effective, if not more. So that's covering all the chemical options that I know of. I'm sure there are other biochemical ways to end a pregnancy.
Speaker 2
How late in the game is it appropriate Mhmm. To try that stuff? Whereas, like, do you have a cutoff opinion around So you need some
Speaker 3
You know, I have I have a teacher who's taken quite who's worked with a lot of of people with plants, and she's seen plants alone be only forty percent effective. And usually, that's around the five or six week mark very, very early. As I said before, I've seen plants be really great at independent implantation. I've met like, also none of those pregnancies were confirmed
Speaker 2
Right.
Speaker 3
By a p test because they were way before Right. So, like, who knows? Yeah. But I trust I trust women. I trust people that know when they ovulate and think that they conceived.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Or
Speaker 3
or it sounds but
Speaker 2
it also sounds like yeah. Like, what we're talking
Speaker 3
about preventative.
Speaker 2
The possibility of conception. Yep. It's not it's not even that somebody has to be like, I think I conceived. Like, if if you're hearing that and feeling insecure about what that might even feel like, like,
Speaker 3
like, you
Speaker 2
said Samantha that even if sperm finds its way into your yoni, you can then, and if you know you're in your fertile window, you then exercise these, and you don't even need to know if if, if conception occurred or not.
Speaker 3
Totally. Totally. And, of course, there are pills on the market too for emergency contraception, but that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Mhmm. But at what point do we start to get into
Speaker 3
Up to thirteen weeks. Oh, wow. Okay. Yep. Oh, right. I need that. Okay. Yeah. That's from iPASS. That's from the international health, sort of lens, and I I'm pretty sure that they cut it off way earlier in clinical care settings in the United States.
Speaker 2
Okay. So then we're getting into the physical options.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Which, you know, for so many years, people have been reaching out to me specifically wanting support with herbal abortion under the grossly inaccurate impression that herbal abortion would be more gentle Mhmm. Or more natural. Right? Like, I'm
Speaker 2
in an alternative.
Speaker 3
Right? Like, I want a gentle I want a natural abortion actually is the language that a lot people use when they're reaching out to me wanting herbal abortions.
Speaker 2
That'd be nice. If that existed.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I'm just like, well and well, then I take those through, like, here's the chemical versus mechanical. Right. And there are many reasons why an individual would not want a mechanical abortion. Very like, whatever their personal boundaries are, they're not comfortable with any sort of penetration. They hate speculums regardless of the setting. I respect that. I would also say that my understanding of our bodies, that our nervous systems and our endocrine systems are the boss of of bodies, that they are inherently capable of reestablishing homeostasis and wanting to heal themselves, internally. And that a mechanical abortion to me actually seems less physically traumatic for most like, in terms of just physiology. We're not talking about individuals and social context and neurology, which are all super important. But when you mechanically remove the tissue from the body, I believe Oh, okay. Like, but I really believe that our nervous systems and our endocrine systems are like, oh, crap. We had, like, a little wound there, basically. The tissue was disrupted. One of our processes was interrupted. Like, how do we reach homeostasis again?
Speaker 2
Back to balance.
Speaker 3
And then it starts that healing process, especially when we have support in our lifestyle choices, or we're also working with plant medicine, and acupuncture, great for absolutely everything all the time. Yeah. Any of these processes, whether it's mechanical or chemical. But, yeah, that the body is able to be like, oh, we need to we need to start healing. Whereas when you use a chemical process, whether it's plants or pills, that your body has to process this substance, and it's affecting your digestive system. It's affecting your liver and your kidneys and totally changing your biochemistry, and you have to process all those substances in addition to then self inflicting this wound.
Speaker 2
Yes. Essentially. Totally. And two things there. One, there's no such thing as a natural abortion. A natural abortion is a miscarriage. Right? If we're talking about nature and biology making those choices for us, that is what a marriage literally is.
Speaker 3
I mean and also respecting that our psyches are part of nature and our choice to have Totally. To end a pregnancy. I've honestly I mean, that's that's my personal beliefs and, like, out of the range of of physiology is that, like, our psyches and our willpower is nature. So
Speaker 2
Exactly. For sure.
Speaker 3
We wanna do is natural. Exactly. Yeah. No.
Speaker 2
But just, like, speaking to that, you know, people being, like, I want a natural abortion is, like Yeah. We have to ally to biology and to the truth of what is occurring. Yeah. And that we are going to interrupt that process and hopefully done with great intention and with our own forces of nature that is part of the the magic and brilliance of being a woman today, you know, and having reclaiming this kind of knowledge that we can use our own force of nature to override a biological experience we don't want. I mean, that's fucking magic, you know, that is something that most women around the world don't have, unfortunately.
Speaker 3
Right.
Speaker 2
But then the other thing I was gonna, speak to or just mention was, you know, I totally hear you that the the physical, the physical was mechanical would be Uh-huh. Would be, for lack of a better word, kind of optimal or or or less traumatic, you know, in just in terms of the body rebalancing. And my my kind of response to that is like and you already know this, but I think that it's that women don't have access to that outside of the clinic. Right? So if if like menstrual extraction or if all of things
Speaker 3
I do have.
Speaker 2
Yeah, were available to women. Right. Of course, I think most women would choose that once they understood it. Obviously, I'm gonna guess most women listening to this episode right now have never heard of what we're about to talk about. Yeah. You know? And so, you know, most people, I would say, as you already know, are growing up with our only options for pregnancy release is to find those pills if I don't wanna go into the clinic, you know, to find a way to do the pills. And so I'm I'm excited to get into this next conversation because, I know there's underground communities of women learning these, tools to support women, in home to experience mechanical pregnancy release, and, and yeah.
Speaker 3
I Well, then it's part of the international, gosh. I'm blanking on the language, like, statutes or principles for midwives proficient. It's like one of I forget how many. There's, like, several somewhere under a dozen basic proficiencies of midwifery care includes manual vacuum aspiration.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Midwives are my understanding is that midwives are legally allowed to do it, but you will be hard pressed to find one because of the social oppression around it. And they're not trained. But sometimes they are. The midwife I apprentice for totally was, but she did not show.
Speaker 3
Wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2
Hell no. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right. So, yeah, mechanical options, menstrual extraction.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Talk about that since probably most people have never heard that.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Carol Downer and Lorraine Rothman and a a bunch of their friends in Los Angeles, California in the late sixties developed a method to gently remove your endometrium between twenty minutes and an hour. And they practiced it every month. So, yeah, menstrual extraction, it was it's a self care it's a home remedy. Right? It's not a it's not a clinical procedure. Right. It's a home remedy
Speaker 2
And what is it?
Speaker 3
For when you want your endometrium to not be in your uterus anymore, regardless of if there's a blastocyst or an embryo that is nestled into that endometrium. It's not appropriate beyond six or seven weeks after a conception or implantation has occurred. And mostly that is because of the size of the cannulas, which are the little straws that are inserted into the opening of the cervix. Mhmm. That after six or seven weeks of gestation, you need a much larger cannula, and it would be painful to do that without lidocaine or some kind of numbing, and dilating the cervix beyond what is comfortable and easy to do at home for most people that don't have medical tools or training.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But, yeah, they menstrual extraction, the book, A New View of a Woman's Body, it's an out of print book, but it is still available. You can find it on Amazon and used bookstores, has very detailed instructions and lists of supplies for menstrual extraction.
Speaker 2
I've never actually seen the tool that's used. Is it I picture it like a like a thing that fills up a balloon animal.
Speaker 3
It's really just like a straw.
Speaker 2
It's a straw. Okay.
Speaker 3
It's a straw that has a little round snub nose, and then it's got two openings, one on either side of the straw underneath that rounded snub nose.
Speaker 2
And then it's just like a manual suction?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's, it's actually on Wikipedia. You can see the whole kit there. Well, I'm gonna look just look it up. And it's attract attached to tubing, which is then attached to a ball jar and more tubing and then a one way valve so that you cannot press air back up into the uterus, which is dangerous and can cause embolism, and then a syringe on the other side of that one way valve. And pretty much everything except for the cannulas can be sourced at a pet store or a canning supply store to build a menstrual extraction kit.
Speaker 2
And the idea is that it I guess the piece I'm missing is how does it get all of it out and get a
Speaker 3
And it probably doesn't.
Speaker 2
Or get the pregnancy out, which is obviously the
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's unlikely that it's it's you may or may not be able to remove a pregnancy with it, but you will definitely be able to disrupt the endometrium significantly and remove a considerable amount of the endometrium that will likely help induce a miscarriage.
Speaker 2
Gotcha.
Speaker 3
If not, certainly. And, of course, you can examine what is found, to see if the tissue of a pregnancy is pretty distinct from endometrium and blood. It's creamier pink or tan usually. And all of that is needed for any aspect any any of these, releases you're needing to to be able to recognize what is the difference of the tissue of a pregnancy versus just blood and endometrium. So, yeah, menstrual extraction is an option that is not you know, that's it's it's a home remedy for bringing on your period is what it is. That's why it's called menstrual extraction and not abortion.
Speaker 2
But isn't it a home remedy for getting rid of your period?
Speaker 3
Right. Or pulling out your period. And that's what Carol and her circle of friends did. They actually didn't use it as a method of contraception or abortion, as much as just remove their menstruation every month so that they would have proficiency and ease and data, for its safety and have the skill available should they need to use it for ending their pregnancy.
Speaker 2
Okay. Are there any other physical options outside of the clinical setting?
Speaker 3
Menstrual extraction and manual vacuum aspiration can be done outside of the clinical setting. Absolutely. But that tool is a specific medical instrument. Right. And that's the thing that license to order it. Right. But, again, yes, it's part of what home birth midwives should have as in their toolkit.
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And then, yeah, the the clinical options are dilation and evacuation, which is suction, and that's usually up to about twelve weeks, and or dilation and curettage, which is scraping and then suction. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Now then I guess the the last piece I wanted to make sure we felt like we were bringing home was, earlier in the episode, you had mentioned that some miscarriages are not completed by themselves. Yeah. And so can you kind of elaborate on what that means and how someone could know that if they chose, if they chose to have a a, you know, unassisted, miscarriage
Speaker 3
at
Speaker 2
home and, you know, if they began bleeding at home or, you know, earlier in their pregnancy and they were like, okay, I'm just gonna roll with this. Yeah. What are and if it's new to that person, what what does it how do we know if it's completed, or what are things that can assist in assuring it's completed? Kinda speak to that whole process.
Speaker 3
Besides your normal period returning.
Speaker 2
Oh, right. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right? Yeah. It's without ultrasound, it's really difficult to be conclusive unless you have a return of your normal menstrual cycle. There's so much around body awareness and intuition and, like, what that individual's threshold for the mystery is and for understanding, the risks, and the symptoms around infection or hemorrhage and how long they're willing to wait
Speaker 2
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
As an individual, that they're completely individual choices and that they're not meant to be made in isolation. Right? Even if you're not wanting to be in a clinical setting, having some sort of a healing ally or care provider, whether they call themselves a doula or a midwife or it's just a friend who's there to witness and support you and help walk you through the risks and benefits of your different options. Yeah. I don't have an answer for how you know Oh, okay. That it's complete other than just, like, the normal symptoms that, like, have your pregnancy symptoms left. Did you see a distinct massive tissue? Did you see the embryo or the fetus or the placental sac? Are you bleeding what is within a normal amount, or are you dumping blood or hemorrhaging? Is that because it's it's completely unique in intuition? And, regardless of any method, I, again, wanna say that acupuncture and herbs to support any and all of these processes, are extremely helpful. Mhmm. And I also just wanna mention as as much as I'm like, yeah. Let's grab this in anatomy and physiology that, like, psychic abortions do work. And, personally, I the people that I have supported who have chosen to use plant medicines with their pregnancy releases at home, Most of them did deep ritual and meditation, and some of them, like, the plants that they were using are not strong enough or biochemically going to do what what we just talked about. They were just like, I really feel like they were spiritual and psychic aids and that we're hyperdimensional beings, and the mind body connection is so much more profound than we can understand.
Speaker 2
Especially when the ritual and intention and psychic psychic force is rooted in love, you know, not from the space of fear and oh my god, how can I have this baby? We don't have the money. We get, oh my god, oh my god, I don't want this baby, I don't want this baby. I don't find those psychic abortions work. I have a a a sticker on my computer that says, something like, use your power towards love or something like that. Use your use your force towards love and power, you You know? And and so kinda going back to your the one of the
Speaker 3
The sacred yes.
Speaker 2
Yeah. In the earlier in the earlier conversation of, you know, there's a way to use your force and your psychic abilities, towards exactly towards the sacred yes of, the yes of your no. Right? And so Yeah. There's something I think when the power is used towards the force of love, you know, you have the whole universe in your favor when you're calling on that on that power, versus a a very fear based kind of scarcity, kind of, like, more mental, chaos.
Speaker 3
Totally. And I'm always afraid to even say that because I don't want people to, like, self shame themselves and be like,
Speaker 2
I'm not powerful enough. I didn't want it badly enough. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 3
I'm I'm not a
Speaker 2
fan of
Speaker 3
specifically addressing mind, body, and spirit. Like, not leaving any of those out when you're making a choice for anything but pregnancy release. Like, making sure that you are covering all of the bases. Well, that's just one of them.
Speaker 2
And the reason I brought that up is that I have I've known many women who said they were a no and that they wanted an abortion, they didn't want the pregnancy, and it was rooted in, fear and scarcity and all of this stuff. And then underneath that, they discover and that's fine. Period. Right there. That's enough. Like, you have an abortion for any possible reasons you want it. Absolutely. You know, that's none of anybody else's business. And I guess my point was that I've known a lot of women who their no was rooted in fear and scarcity and all this other stuff, but but actually underneath that was a yes of very much wanting the pregnancy, but being scared of how it would work out. And then in reverse, I think to your point of psychic ability, like, when your no is embodied, when you're when you're absolutely not now to this pregnancy is fully embodied on every level, and there's no battle around it, it is a full bodied yes to the no. Yeah. That's when I've seen, like, what you just kinda pointed to. I've seen absolutely, like, I have seen women will away pregnancy for sure.
Speaker 3
For sure.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I've even done it contraceptively, which is not as impressive because it was pre physical.
Speaker 3
Well,
Speaker 2
it's not. It's not it's not a it's not
Speaker 3
You are God. You're impressive.
Speaker 2
But I've totally I mean, up until up until I called my child in and now I'm again doing it, not wanting another child now, you know, every time that I've ever had sex.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Sometimes I would freaking feel them, like, over my shoulders, like, hey, like, knock knock knock and I would be like, hey, absolutely fucking not. Yeah. No. Thank you.
Speaker 3
So and that That
Speaker 2
about sums
Speaker 3
up all of that. Wanting to dispel is that, like, the practical information about the anatomy and physiology of how we can avoid or end pregnancies in or out of a clinical model, but specifically with plant medicine, which is, like, our birthright and our ancestral knowledge to be able to have access to this information. Like, the the suppression of that information and how dangerous and scary it is, I really respect that, especially folks that have licenses, but it really comes back to that whole licensing and structural thing. Like, right. I have no licensing and I have no certification.
Speaker 2
And, I think what I think what a lot of people come up against is the concern I mean, I've heard a lot of women say this. The concern is, what if I try with plant medicines and I, like, distort the baby, and then I have a weird little monster baby that I've, you know, that I, like, fucked up trying to get rid of it. But then I'm not successful because my entire life I've been taught not to trust myself and plants, but to only trust the clinic and the the white man in the lab coat. And so, now, I'm interested in this at home situation, but what if it doesn't work and I fucked up the pregnancy and then I've missed the window. Yeah. And now, I'm stuck with this, like, weird messed up pregnancy. I think that's a I think that's, like, at the root of a lot of concerns of people I've spoken with.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I hear that. And then, I mean, having a backup plan is really important. Again, going back to this reality of, like, there are goods and services available in the medical industry that But
Speaker 2
not to everyone. Right? I mean, I know lots of women who do not have access to to abortion, for
Speaker 3
for
Speaker 2
a lot of reasons. And, yeah, it's great for you and I. We could try it and if it fucks up or if it doesn't take, we can just go get surgical. Not that that's a casual thing, but it's it's available to people like you and I. And for women who it's not available to like that, understandably, I think there's a but, there's a concern of what if it doesn't take and then have I, like, messed up this Totally. Anyway, not that we have answers to that, but
Speaker 3
No. It's real. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, this is I I think this, you know, this is so important and it's the start of a huge conversation, and there's so much more to say. You know, this was just kind of some of the overview to get our listeners thinking about this stuff and knowing, hopefully feeling some confidence in, in in resourcing more information around this. And so, for anyone who is feeling really, stoked about about what you've brought up, where can they go to learn about you and and dive into what you're offering?
Speaker 3
Right. So I have a website that is my name. It's samantha zipporah, z I p p o r a h, dot com. I also have a Patreon page, and I have a lot of, I have some free lectures on there on conscious contraception. And a lot of the materials for my abortion and miscarriage support course are on my Patreon page. I'm overly active on Instagram. I'm quite transparent, and personal there.
Speaker 2
And your handle is just your name. Right?
Speaker 3
It's just my name. Yep. Samantha Zapora. And, yeah, I'm not sure when this is gonna air, but I'm doing a conscious contraception Skillshare online that starts beginning of May. Cool. And I do have some teaching engagements in Northern California at the end of April, that folks can check out on my website, on Facebook. And lastly, going back to the the fact that I have my little punk teenaged ovulation zine.
Speaker 2
That's awesome.
Speaker 3
The free download on my website also. And, yeah, thank you so much for inviting this conversation onto your platform. And, you know, if we don't know what our options are, we don't have any.
Speaker 2
Yep. That is sadly true.
Speaker 3
Reconciliation. Sharing this this information without fear of of persecution, is is such a powerful act. So thank you for
Speaker 2
I mean, we have to do it. Engaging. Our our ancestors were not given that that option. So Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Thank you for the wisdom, and I think this is gonna ignite a lot of interest, for the people that listen to this podcast. So thank you. That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
