Jinti Fell's Wild Pregnancy and Outdoor Freebirth

Season #9 May 17, 2019

I am thrilled to be sharing this interview today with the lovely Jinti Fell, who, you could say, comes out of the closet about her freebirth on today’s episode. Jinti was thrown into motherhood with an accidental pregnancy and while she had a wonderful birth, she was left less than satisfied with the treatment by her midwives. Then, practicing conscious conception to call in her son, she finds herself deep in her own shadow work to prepare for her new child. Jinti shares openly about the highs and lows of being a public persona online and keeping her plans to freebirth private. And of course, she shares the beautiful story of her sons peaceful, outdoor, family centered, freebirth in the water.

Disclaimer: Free Birth Society, LLC of North Carolina shares personal and educational stories and experiences related to freebirth and holistic care. This content is not medical advice, and we are not a licensed midwifery practice. Testimonials reflect individual experiences; results may vary. For services or scheduling, contact [email protected]. See full disclaimer at freebirthsociety.com/youtubeterms

Episode Transcript

Speaker 0

Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily

Speaker 1

Saldea. Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. I am thrilled to be sharing this interview today with the lovely Genti Fell, who you could say comes out of the closet about her free birth on today's episode. Genti was thrown into motherhood with an accidental pregnancy, and while she did have a wonderful birth, she was left less than satisfied with the treatment

Speaker 0

by her

Speaker 1

midwives. Then, practicing conscious conception to call in her son, she finds herself deep in her own shadow work to prepare for her new child. Genti shares openly about the highs and lows of being a public persona online and keeping her plans to free birth private. And, of course, she shares the beautiful story of her son's peaceful, outdoor, family centered free birth in the water.

Speaker 2

Okay, so I grew up in a pretty big family. My mother had six children and I knew my whole life. I really wanted to have kids. And I knew I would I I really wanted that and I've been with my partner for a few years and It's just something we had never spoken about like wow Yeah, but not in a mysterious like off topic sort of way. It just wasn't a priority We just I knew he'd want to have kids and he knew I did but we never spoke about having kids or anything like that. Which all of my friends that were like, no, that's weird. Like we do we talk about it all the time. Right. I think in Chris's head, he was just like, when it's the right time, we'll talk about it and it'll be awesome, but it's like, I don't really it would just didn't. You know? But, we were traveling. We'd left Australia. We were two weeks into this backpacking trip, and we were thinking we were gonna travel sort of like around the whole world for maybe a couple of years. And it was something that we'd like left uni to do, like university. Mhmm. We'd we'd work so hard to save and, prepare this sort of trip. And we were two weeks into this trip, and I was actually no. Yeah. Two weeks into the trip, and I fell pregnant. Oh my god. Yeah. We were in Wow. We were in Yeah. Yeah. So we were in Indonesia and, by the time like, when I found out I was pregnant, we were in the States, actually. It was the day after my twenty fifth birthday, and we had been at the Grand Canyon. And I hiked down into the canyon. And at that time, I was so fit and healthy. And I was so sick. I I was like, what is wrong with me? I cannot like this is crazy. It was a super hot day. And I knew in my heart then that something was up, but I never consciously like allowed it to surface where I was at the point of realization that maybe I was, pregnant. But I'd say this is where my mothering journey really began. And I wish I could say it was like this Excitement right acceptance, complete surrender, but it was truly the opposite of that. It was wow. I resisted that for months up until I was about literally, like, four months pregnant. I sort of came to terms with the fact that we were having a baby and that I could start looking at it as a really more enjoyable and beautiful thing as aside to just being, like, incomplete, just in shock and resisting, what was coming.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, that is a really big deal to to be pregnant when you didn't want to be or plan to be. I mean, you know, even though that is how most babies seem to be created, I don't think it takes away from the reality of how absolutely shocking it would be to integrate a completely life changing new reality inside of your body that you didn't want to have happen. Like, of course, eventually, you wanted it and blah blah blah, you love your kid, but the initial part, you know, of of not wanting it or thinking you were calling it in or or desiring that to have that happen to your body is oh, into your life, into your relationship. That's a very, very big deal.

Speaker 2

Yeah. That feeling of just knowing a human was inside of me wasn't yeah. That was just the wildest thing to me and something I just struggled to connect with for a long time. I I wanna actually say that we had no idea about anything to do with having babies. I cannot I mean, we knew how to make a baby. Yeah. Isn't it? Actually, having children I've got three older sisters. None of them have had children. None of my friends have had children. Chris had held a baby before, a couple of weeks before our trip, and we just didn't know much about having children. I so upon realizing that I was pregnant, I in my head, I was like, what do we do? Like, what do we do now? And we were like, well, I suppose, like, maybe we have to go to the doctor. And we were in America, and so we were just like, well, how do we even do this? And it was just a bit of a confusing time. And we ended up finding a doctor that would see us. And I remember I sat in the car, we had this little higher car. And we I sat in the car and I couldn't go inside. I just bawled my eyes out. Like and Chris was trying to console me and just calm me down. And I was unbelievably emotional. And I I don't already go to doc like, going to a doctor was a big thing for me, and so it already stresses me out.

Speaker 1

And had you heard had you heard about midwives before?

Speaker 2

No. I'm sure I knew what a midwife was. Okay. But, I knew I mean, in my head then, from the moment I knew I was pregnant, I was like, well, obviously, we'll have a home birth. So I must have heard a few different things. You know? But I was like, okay. We'll go to the doctor. And I went to the two different doctors actually because the first one the first place didn't work out. They couldn't see us. But they did say to me, like, obviously, you're gonna have to go home to Australia now. You need prenatal care. Like, you need to take responsibility sort of thing. And, and literally was just like, yeah. So you certainly need to reconsider your travel plans. And so the second doctor I saw, all she did was give me a pregnancy test basically and confirmed that I was pregnant Thanks.

Speaker 1

I know I was like

Speaker 2

really you're

Speaker 1

like this

Speaker 2

So we left there, and I was way more of a mess than when we went in because I was certain we were pregnant, which I already knew that. And then I had started already just being fearful about what was going to happen. We were in a different country. We had all these plans. And in my heart, I was like, I wanna keep traveling. Mhmm. Can I do that? Is that a thing that women do when they're pregnant? Is that allowed? Like, you know, And so I remember a couple of days passed, and I think we're in Colorado. And I eventually, obviously, called my parents, and they love having they love children, and they've had six children. So I remember I called my dad crying sort of just sat. Like, I was just confused, and he was Really happy. I remember his response was I'm so happy, but I don't know what to say because you're really sad So, but anyway, I spoke to them that made me feel a lot better and my mum I clearly remember her saying to me She's like ginty. This is what you are designed to do This is the most normal thing in the world like you can trust yourself and you can travel if you think you know, if you want to travel you can travel and it's okay. And that really helped because I was like, okay, I've got this I can make decisions for myself, you know So we traveled I traveled up until I was seven months pregnant, and I flew back from South America via like, a long flight, which was a bad decision, back to Australia. And we didn't have, like, a place or anything to live, and it was a bit of stressful, time just wanting to sort of nest being I think it was about thirty two weeks when we, moved into our our unit, and I went to see a midwife for the first time. I will also mention that in that pregnancy, I did have two ultrasounds. I had one in Peru and one in Colombia, actually. So that was interesting experiences.

Speaker 1

And that's interesting. So you had so you sought them out. It wasn't like you were seeing, you know, one consistent person that was like, this is just what you do. So what about what about those stages of your pregnancy did, you know, had you seeking out ultrasound?

Speaker 2

The first ultrasound that I got was at I think I was sixteen weeks, and I've just been on a five day hike, overnight hiking, and it was quite strenuous. And after that hike, I said, like, we felt the baby I felt her moving for the first time, really much more stronger. Like, I felt fluttering and stuff like that. And for some reason in my head, I was like, I wanna get a scan. I wanna get an ultrasound. I thought that that was just a part of the whole process of totally pregnant and something that I didn't really question. And so we went and got that done. And the doctor at the time, he noticed that there was in the ultrasound, a blood clot around my placenta or something. He said, I don't speak a lot of Spanish, and he did not speak a little bit of English. So it was, yeah, it was interesting. And then he told me that I needed to get another ultrasound, later on in the pregnancy to make sure everything was okay and whatnot. So that's the reason why I got the second ultrasound. I was about I think yeah. I was about twenty six weeks pregnant at the second one. And, yeah, I really I really didn't enjoy the second one. It was a lot longer. It was done by, an American woman in Columbia at, like, a private clinic, and I just we didn't enjoy it. And that was all of the prenatal care I had leading up to when I got home at thirty two weeks and went to see a midwife. So I sought out a private midwife clinic, where we were living. And I was really nervous to see someone because I thought I felt a degree of shame. I think that I felt bad, like I was being irresponsible because I hadn't had ongoing care like most people had had. Mhmm. And so I was like, they're gonna think I'm a bad person or I'm not I don't know. It was yeah. So I I saw her, and I ended up not being like, we really wanted to have a home birth. But by this stage, we financially, it wasn't an option for us after we'd been traveling. And, yeah, it was really expensive to have a home birth through the midwife clinic. And so where we came like, we found a solution really was to have our birth in a birthing center as, like, I would just rent the bathroom and have a private midwife. Mhmm. I've been someone really drawn to being in water every time I'm sick, slightly unwell, or just feel down. Like, I wanna go for a swim or have a shower or have a bath. So I thought I really, really wanted the option of having a water birth in case that's what I decided I needed. Mhmm. And so having a private midwife, guaranteed that that would be an option. I'd have access to a birth pool. Whereas, if I went through the public health system, it's you don't really know what you're going to get. So I I saw her leading up to having my daughter. And every single time I saw the midwife, I I remember thinking, like, why? What what are we doing now? And then every time I left, it just sort of felt like a waste of time almost. Like, I didn't learn anything from it. Everything was fine. The only thing that I really got from it was worry. I would start worrying about dates and time frames and stuff like that. And, yeah, I remember I was forty weeks. It was like my s like, my my due day. And when I saw her, I think on that day, she was like, you know, we're gonna have to start talking about what happens if the baby doesn't come soon. And that that was the biggest, worry I had was just meeting someone else's time frames and stuff like that and being like, what if I don't go into labor? What happens? I don't I wanna go into labor on time. You know? Mhmm. But anyway, labor started, when I was I've been pregnant for forty and five. Forty weeks and five days, and it's the day that I thought I would go into labor my whole pregnancy. So I was just, it's this day, I told my whole family like months earlier. And so we had the most amazing labor at home. It was it's like best experience of my life, to be honest, that labor, it was just Chris and I. And I started getting, like, really regular consistent tractions contractions, in the afternoon, the day before I gave birth. And then I labored all night just from our bathroom bedroom, and Chris would be with me. And then other times, I'd be like, I just wanna be alone, and he would sleep. And it was just, I lost all sense of time and space. And it just felt like Chris, our baby and I in just this bubble and everything else sort of melted away. And we were just in this different sort of place. And

Speaker 1

But all the while needing to eventually go somewhere else. Right?

Speaker 2

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I knew that we would have to leave, but I was just this zone that it wasn't something that was, you know, I was thinking about or anything. But there was a point during the labor where I really holding on. There's some fear there, and I just wasn't releasing. And I realized that the only way out was to surrender to surrender to what was going on. So I decided to do that and labor progressed really quickly from that point. It just was very intense and contractions on top of each other. And I was just, in the shower on the ground, and I remember thinking I'm going to have the baby here. And then the hot water ran out, and I was like, never we're out of the shower. Shower.

Speaker 1

Yeah. We're up.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And I I got out of the shower. The midwife just lived down the road from us. And I said to Chris, I was like, if you need to call her now, if we're going to leave. And I'd said the same thing to him a couple of hours prior to that, because my mom was going to be at the birth. And he said it was really strange. I would just say it to him. I wasn't speaking or anything throughout the whole time. And I just said, like, let my mom know she needs to leave right now. And then later on, I was like, the midwife needs to leave. It's so strange how you can just know what is needed in, labor. And so they arrived at the same time, and the midwife asked to check me. And, I wish I knew, but I know now. But I I said to I actually said, like, I'm scared for you to check me. And she was just like, why are you scared? That's silly sort of thing. And she checked me and was like, okay. We need to leave now if we're we're gonna get to the hospital in time. So that car ride was definitely the part of my entire labor big out of that entire experience. That was what I remember as being the hardest, most. It was not nice. And I started transitioning in the car. Yeah. And, yeah, I'll never forget that experience being in the car. And then we got to the birth center or the, yeah, the birthing suite where I was going to give birth. I we went in, and I started needing to push. I thought I was needed to poop, actually. And it turns out, you know, I needed to start pushing, and they were just filling up the birthing pool. And I said to Chris, like, I need to get in there right now. And so I got in when it was filling up, and I love I love the pushing part because I knew the end was sort of inside. I'd sort of and I felt a lot calmer. I had bigger, gaps between the urge to push, and I was really quite quite rested and Chris and I would just, he had his arms right around me. So I was just like looking into his face. So it still sort of felt like just him and I, and we could have sort of been anywhere. That's what it felt like. And I only pushed with Aya for twenty minutes. And I remember her head was nearly coming out and no one realized. And I said to Chris, can you see her hair? And he's like, what? Really? And he had a look in the midwife. I remember there's two midwives there. One I'd never met before. She was a part of the private midwife clinic, though, and my midwife. And they laughed. They were on the other side of the room, and they laughed. And she said to me, oh, honey, you're gonna have to do a lot more to get that baby out. And What? I she said it jokingly. Not funny. I don't know.

Speaker 1

Not funny.

Speaker 2

And I sort of was just like, What I? I remember thinking if that is not the baby. What is that? Like? Fair enough and Yeah, the next push her head came out and they sort of ran over just really surprised and then it all sort of, you know, it happened from there and I think the next push after that I birthed her body and that moment was so I don't even know. That was so intense and powerful, and it just Chris was there with me and mom was there. And, like, that was the most intense feeling I think I've ever felt just becoming a parent. Like, this this little human just came out of me. Like, are you kidding me? What is life?

Speaker 1

It also it just going back

Speaker 2

to the midwife comment, it it just Yeah.

Speaker 1

It makes me always obviously, I hear these stories and comments all the time from from women. And, like, it makes me feel like, had they never attended birth? Like, had they I have been to so many births and I have never not been surprised. Every single birth I've ever been to, something in it has surprised me and taught me and humbled me and blah blah blah. Like, it just I hear these stories about from hospital staff or midwives, you know, where they don't believe the birthing woman talking about what is occurring in her body. It just makes me think they must not have been to a birth before. Like, how have they not been surprised? It just blows my mind.

Speaker 2

Yeah. It was now I've given birth and know how, you know, intense and strong a woman's intuition is particularly during birth. There's nothing more powerful. I yeah. I'm completely I don't understand.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Just another way of kind of silencing and and and creating some sort of hierarchical, you know, power dynamic. And I don't you know, they don't even realize they're doing it. That it that's so how silencing and how totally incorrect, obviously, because then your baby came right away. Yeah.

Speaker 2

And I think the a big thing that we took from the whole experience with having a midwife and also postpartum, just how she helped us or how she went about trying to help us and support us, I should say. It was really disempowering. It was a lot more to do with her and her feeling like she had this purpose in place and that we needed her. Mhmm. And she wanted to feel that. I really I really think she wanted to feel needed. And, by doing that and how she went about trying to help me, it just made me feel really I wasn't confident, and I was I didn't trust myself as much as I should have.

Speaker 1

Mhmm. Yeah. That's such an important piece to, you know, to, yeah, talk about and and reflect on and share with other women. Absolutely. It's something I've I've said often is I would never have a midwife, or anyone be with me in a birth that thought that they were needed. You know? It's like that that Yes. Right? Like, them thinking they're needed is already, the wrong dynamic to enter in a Yes. What should be a space of servitude. Right?

Speaker 2

I really like that. That's I feel that really strongly because I think when they feel like, you know, they wanna be needed, their intentions aren't quite right in a way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So

Speaker 1

So you left so you leave that birth experience kind of being like, Okay. Like, feeling hopefully, very wonderful about your birth, but then as it sounds like as you were reflecting on the midwifery side of it, feeling, I heard you use the word disempowered.

Speaker 2

Not at the time. At looking back, this is on reflection. At the time, I thought at the time, I was absolutely blissed out, just had the best experience of my life. I thought, could it get better than that? And Chris and I would just, it was like a sense of euphoria I felt after that birth. So it was a very positive experience for me in lots of ways. And then having gone through having my second child and going through that pregnancy and the lead up to conception, I really reflected more on our first experience with our daughter and sort of saw it from in a different perspective, from a different, yeah, angle, I suppose. Mhmm. Okay. Yeah. From the time of having her, at the hospital, we were literally checking our watches because they had a minimum amount of time that we had to stay before they would let us leave. And so we were literally just, like, waiting to leave. And then four hours later, we were out of there as fast as we could. So we got home, and I remember saying to Chris, holy like, we could have done that ourselves. And the worst part for all of us was going in the car. And I was like, imagine if we didn't have to leave. Imagine if it was just you and I. Like, we could have done that ourselves. And he was just like, I know. Like, do people do that sort of thing? Like, next time, like, let's just do it ourselves. And Which you

Speaker 1

already did. Right? Like, you you already can birth by yourself. Right? Like

Speaker 2

You know. It's so it's it's kind

Speaker 1

of I always kind of laugh at that because it is. And I've had the same I've had the same, epiphany, you know, and I laugh at it for myself too of realizing that regardless of who you have around, if you wanna birth your own baby, meaning not have the baby delivered, meaning not have it cut from you and not have it pulled from you. If you want to birth your own baby, which you did with your daughter, and and then obviously again with your son, nobody else can do it. So then everybody else is truly just spectators. And so I love how many women are leaving their births realizing, yeah, that they already did do it by themselves.

Speaker 2

Yeah. It's definitely empowering to have that realization. So after we we had that conversation, we never really spoke about giving birth again. You know? Like, it wasn't something that we continuously spoke about. We were just so blissed out. And we just thought we'd had the best experience ever. And instantly, we were just like, we love giving birth. Like, I love giving birth, Chris, it was the most amazing experience of his life. He was on the biggest high himself. And I think he really started viewing women really differently in lots of ways. She obviously changed our whole lives, like as they did, they did talk to their parents. And, we ended up deciding to well, Chris just we just love being parents so much, but he was studying full time again after we'd gone back from our travels and working full time. And it ended up being like I was just I wasn't satisfied. I was like, surely we can parent differently. Surely, this other way that we could, all be together as a family, more, you know, instead of Chris just getting home at nights, and then we'd have a couple of days a week together. And I could see how much she she needed him and how much he would benefit from being around our daughter more. And so we ended up selling all our stuff and buying a van and starting beginning traveling again. So we were in, like, a motor home sort of thing, and we ended up traveling with, our daughter from when she was ten months old, to well, we're still sort of going in now. Mhmm. And she's, she'll be three and a half in a couple of months. So, yeah, life started looking really different after having her, than we expected it to be. I was sort of thinking, you know, do we let's buy a house now. That's what you do. Right? Like, let's settle down, be responsible. We're not gonna be traveling anymore. And then, you know, that didn't happen.

Speaker 1

You came back to Australia to have the baby, but you traveled for seven months and then had the baby. And then at what point I mean, I know a a little bit about what your life looks like now. So at what point do you, like, click back into we're on the road, we're a bus family or whatever whatever however you identify.

Speaker 2

I was spending a lot of time alone at home, and Aya was my daughter Aya was sleeping, you know, a lot as newborns do. And I started being just not I just didn't feel content. And I was like, this isn't for me, staying at home with my daughter isn't for me. I know some mothers just love being stay at home moms, but there was something inside of me. I just was kind of miserable. And I was like, I can't do this. It's not the best thing for her. And so we started looking at different options and stuff then. And then, you know, we sold our car and brought a van and Chris started working on it. And so, yeah, we transitioned into traveling, sort of being on the road full time when she was ten months, but we'd spent a couple of months just going on little trips to see how it all went. And at this stage, we didn't have much money at all. We weren't working online or anything. So it was sort of it seemed a little risky, and we weren't sure how it was going to work or if it was, but we thought

Speaker 1

Like all great adventures.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So So

Speaker 1

we thought it was sort of we

Speaker 2

didn't know if it was going to be something kind of temporary or something long term. So it ended up being obviously a bigger decision than we could have realized but Yeah, so we were traveling for a few years before I even Not a few years probably two years was when I started to think maybe we will start talking and thinking about having another child. Not a part of me was interested in having another child for, like, yeah, two years after having AR.

Speaker 1

A Yeah. Fair enough. I resonate I resonate with that.

Speaker 2

I have, yeah, a lot of girlfriends that are just, like, ready to have babies again. And after a, I was like, woah. How? This is no it's funny though because I'm three weeks postpartum, and I get it now. It's terrifying me.

Speaker 1

Oh, no. You're clicked in. It's on. It's on your face.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So, yeah, I was two years old, and I wasn't Like I didn't have my period again. So it's two years and I just It's the same time. I realized okay I'm probably starting like I'm starting to think about having another baby And then I was like, well, I need to be getting my cycle. And so I sort of really sat with that. And, I meditated on it actually a lot. And then the next month, I started bleeding again. And I was like, okay, I know it's time to yeah, it just felt really right. But by this stage, we were so sick of living in a van. We're just like, it was just the most awesome adventure, but at the same time, it can be really hard. And we're like, we need a break. And we ended up heading over to Indonesia, and we were there for a few months. And I just wasn't feeling that well. I really wanted to feel super healthy and really grounded when I conceived. And I just wasn't feeling very well at all. I think we're we're in really poor air quality. We were traveling a lot, and I felt a little stressed and, well, to be honest. So I was like, I don't want to conceive. It's not the right time here. And our daughter was conceived in Indonesia. So I thought, oh, maybe both our babies will be made over here. And no, pretty soon into that trip, I was like, I I'm not ready. So we traveled for a couple of months and then came back to Australia. We got a a home. We rented a place for three months. It was the whole winter, and it was so peaceful and beautiful out there. And we would just go to the farmers markets and buy organic produce, and we were just really nourishing ourselves. And I was at the point where I was like, okay, We're good. We're good to go now.

Speaker 1

Nice. Yeah. Well, that's so that's so wise, you know, and that is conscious conception is, you know, connecting with that and and really tuning into what feels, like the right time and creating that right time and the action steps towards that right time and and living with consciousness. And, you know, I love it because so many people, you know, we grow up hearing, oh, there's never a right time and you're never prepared and fuck that. Of course, there is.

Speaker 2

You know,

Speaker 1

there absolutely is if you choose to create it, then of course, there can be, a a a quote unquote right time to to call a pregnancy in. So I love that you listened to that and didn't get so, caught up in the the romantic, you know, side of of the, you know, concept that the other baby was born was created in Indonesia or that that was the time you thought you'd do it. And, yeah. To me, that, like, really encapsulates the concept of conscious conception.

Speaker 2

Yeah. That was important to us this time. And with AR, our experience was obviously what it needed to be. It's how it all unfolded, but I wanted to go into this next pregnancy very much as consciously as we could really. I didn't want it to be a surprise again. Yeah. And so what happened around his conception was, I started to feel really incredibly sensitive. I am a really social person usually, and I'm out and about and I love like chatting with people and stuff like that. And I started going really pretty much the opposite and I didn't really want to leave home much. I felt so sensitive to everything going on around me. And I would just stay home. It was we were on a big property, and I would just meditate. And I really wanted to be alone a lot. And so I was but I was feeling really good as well and, like, health wise. And so, yeah, leading into conceiving him, I was praying a lot for his I just we felt he was so ready, and we had for a little while. And we just knew it was our son, and it was just I've never experienced anything like it before. And then we conceived him. And that same night, when Chris was going to sleep, he had this really strong vision of his him holding his son, and he, like, looked into his son's face. And, yeah, it was a really special time when he was conceived for us. So but in saying that, you know, how how long they like, five weeks later, when I don't stop bleeding, I'm still surprised I'm pregnant. I was like, what? You know, surely, it's not, like, surely, it couldn't have been that easy. It has to be harder. You know? That's how I thought in my head. It has to take longer. We can't conceive the first time that we thought we would. You know?

Speaker 1

God. That's such a good point of of the whole it's the way it's been taught to me is upper limiting is just the the ways that we limit our accepting, you know, the highest quality of of our prayers and our dreams.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's too good to be true to the whole concept. And yet and

Speaker 1

he just drifted on down and was like, okay. Let's go. You did your work. You you, you know, you got at me out of Indonesia. You got settled. And it's just so beautiful.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So I was pregnant, And it was from the moment, I really came to realize that I was pregnant, I took a pregnancy, I did do a pregnancy test. I, it was just normal. It was just so less traumatic than our first experience. It was just like, of course, I'm pregnant. Okay, I'm pregnant. Like, it's our son. What do we do now? Like, it was just normal, you know? But then what happened, and I really do want to include this in my story was, I went through probably five, leaving that five weeks until finding out I was pregnant, was definitely some of the most emotionally intense, low points of my life. I think it felt like I was experiencing like a lot of physical symptoms and feeling ill when we were traveling in Indonesia. And then I came home and being in a really quiet spot allowed a lot of things to surface. I then conceived our son, and all of a sudden, I was just on this crazy emotional roller coaster. And I feel like he was showing me things, like lessons that needed to surface. And his like presence in our lives was like encouraging us to grow and to see things that needed to be seen. And it was a really, yeah, I'll just say it was a really like low time where I honestly was just like, how do I be a human? What is this life? And I questioned a lot of things, and I feel like I was completely stripped of who I thought I was. My whole identity sort of began dissolving. And I was just like, what is this life? What is real? Like, who am I?

Speaker 1

And do you think this spiritual this spiritual work was was coming forth because of your son or or just where you were at in your life or or what?

Speaker 2

I mean, I can't know for sure that I really feel like it was coming forth with him

Speaker 1

with, like, and deal with the shit.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Like, I'm I don't wanna hang out here for the next nine months when you Yeah. Deal with it. So I felt very I felt lonely, actually. And since that sort of realization and that feeling I really have come that like loneliness for me was sort of a lack of love for myself, almost like I couldn't be with myself, like I needed to be. And so I've a lot of work on exploring all of these feelings and sort of making peace. And it was definitely the deepest I've ever gone into meditation. And I was meditating a lot in my early pregnancy, like, you know, a few times a day. And that's where I would sort of find a lot of peace and calm. And it took, I'd say like six or seven weeks for me to sort of really come out of this place where I could start. I started feeling human again. Like I could converse with other people, be around people that weren't. Yeah, it was interesting because we work solely online and we document and share our lives really online. And so it was it was an interesting time.

Speaker 1

So then when you were so you're in this position of your job being essentially to be the opposite of what you're going through. Right? Is that your job was to be public and to include Yeah. Your fans or followers in your life, and yet that didn't really correlate to this deep spiritual experience you're going through. So how did you navigate that? Like, did you just not talk about it, or did you include it into your online

Speaker 2

platform? I think I didn't talk about it much, and, I mean, people noticed, though. It was people could sense that there was something going on. But I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't understand what was really happening. There was times when I was like, have I completely lost my mind? Like, am I crazy? Like, what is going on? And I wasn't ready to talk about it. So I sort of really only dealt with it by taking a bit of a step back and doing much less online and and just Good. Giving myself time. Mhmm. So that was sort of the start of the pregnancy that rocked me. Yeah. Wow. And then We in that time during pregnancy, we bought a bus and Knew that we would move into this bus and carry on traveling, during the pregnancy. And I was excited about that. Like, I'm definitely something a traveler at heart or something. And that was my dream pregnancy, really, to just travel slowly down the coast with Chris and Aya and just enjoy being pregnant and just take it really slow. But turns out, you know, building essentially a tiny house in a bus Mhmm. Is actually a little stressful and took took much longer than we anticipated. But when the so we spent a bit of time with, like, my parents whilst the bus got built, and eventually, we moved into the bus. And I'm not sure I think I was about twenty five weeks pregnant at this stage. Oh, wow.

Speaker 1

At what point in your pregnancy are you, like, I'm free birthing?

Speaker 2

I've definitely thought about this and tried to remember if there was ever a a moment that we decided, oh, we're going to free birth or something like that. And, honestly, it never feels like something that we decided upon. And I know that might sound silly. It was just I asked Chris the other day, like, did we have a chat about that, that we were just going to free birth or whatever. And he's like, I think we sort of just knew that it was just going to be us. And but the prenatal care, I hadn't seen anyone. Okay.

Speaker 1

So you were just kinda going along with it, or were you like, I am having a wild pregnancy even if you didn't have that languaging, like, were you like, I don't want to go to anyone else for this pregnancy or were you just kind of taking it week by week?

Speaker 2

No. I didn't wanna go and see anyone because I didn't feel like I needed to. And if there was a point where I felt I needed some sort of support that I wasn't getting, I would have, you know, sought out support or help. But I just didn't feel like I needed it at all. And my experience having it previously, I was like, I probably I didn't need it then either. And so I just really was very trusting this time around, and I just knew myself. And I knew I could trust myself. And if I needed anything, I could go and get it, but I didn't need I didn't feel like I needed, you know, prenatal care simply because that's what's sort of done. At this stage as well, I've never heard the term free birth. I didn't know that it was a thing. I wasn't a part of any sort of online communities. I hadn't spoken to anyone who had ever free birthed. So I think I knew what we wanted to do, but like you said, we just didn't have the language. Like we didn't have the terms. Yeah. And the same with like a wild pregnancy. I just thought there was a part of me that once again, felt some level of shame about our decision, like we were doing. I knew in my heart was right, that it would be perceived as wrong. So yeah, throughout the whole pregnancy, I felt apart from that first trimester when I went through a really, I don't know if it was a mental breakdown, a spiritual awakening. I don't know what it was. Maybe both. I was feeling really good, really, really good in myself. Super healthy. Just so happy and well throughout that pregnancy, because I knew that we were going to be having the baby, just us without midwife. I was actually starting to think, when am I going to get to the point where I have to research everything to understand everything that could go wrong and have, you know, is that something that I have to do? Because would be irresponsible if I don't feel like that? I went through a stage of that and I'd never had this feeling where I needed to go and research every possible outcome that could go wrong, or I didn't have that fear that something was going to go wrong. In my heart, it was just like, it's going to be amazing and perfect, and I know our baby's healthy. I just could picture it so vividly. So when I was in the bus, I started to want to mentally prepare myself for the labor, I suppose. And I've been doing that throughout most of the pregnancy. And for me, that was just really like meditating a lot, and visualizing our birth and just the feeling that we just the feeling around giving birth and the environment we'd be in and how it would unfold and who would be there and just visualizing and picturing our baby just being born, just healthy and strong. And that was a lot of my preparation, really. And Chris and I would talk about it a lot in terms of what it would be like. And we'd really just try to raise each other's energy around giving birth and support in just so we felt really confident and supported and excited to give birth. It was also during my pregnancy. This is all later on in pregnancy was happening a lot more. Chris was reading some books that were really resonating with him. And there was quite a bit of stuff about giving birth and raising children and stuff like that. And it really, fitted into where we were at and how he wanted to raise his own children. And so I feel like it was just once again, so many synchronistic things were happening during my birth of my pregnancy that sort of put us in the right direction. And we felt support and support would show up when we needed it in different forms, in different lessons. And it was a real journey for us, my pregnancy, for Chris and myself, truly. And, basically, towards the end of pregnancy, we just felt so strong and confident in our decisions during that pregnancy my decisions and in our ability to birth our son, we just felt so good and confident about it.

Speaker 1

Well, and I love the simplicity of it because, you know, for some women, there's a really long complicated road to choosing, what obviously to us is just normal natural birth, and it actually takes more effort in some ways to add people to it. Right? Like, birth will happen. Right? Period. Like, you know, when no one gets out of birth. If you're pregnant and you carry a viable pregnancy to term, birth will occur. And so, the extra effort is actually to to choose to leave your home or to choose to go out and find people, that you don't know, you know, to attend your birth and to include them and to pay them. And all of that is great if that's what's, intuitive and and that's a person's choice. But I love the simplicity of free birth because it's obviously just birth, and and it's like birth back to basics, you know.

Speaker 2

Like, don't feel like you have

Speaker 1

to have, like, some big explanation of why you chose free birth. I really love how simple it was for you and your partner that, you saw, you experienced birth with midwives, and it, left you feeling, you know, less than with with that particular arrangement. And, and you love giving birth and you have a wonderful supportive partner and, you were super conscious and tuned in with your baby and your body and your health and your family and your family's wisdom and your body's wisdom, and it just wasn't a very complicated decision to just have your baby, you know, and just keep it so simple. I I I'm really appreciating that.

Speaker 2

Yeah. That really summarizes how it was for us. It was just normal. That that word has come up so frequently for me. Just so normal. Why is it so normal? It just feels easy. So, yeah, that's sort of how we prepared for birth, to be honest. And I didn't have any fears around birth. Truly, I was just, it'll be awesome. That's how I felt in my head. Chris felt exactly the same. And he was excited if we were just excited to get to experience, you know, meeting our child, another child that we conceived, it just so incredible. And we were just just felt really excited that the only fears I had and I suppose, like, negative feelings were about how it would be perceived by other people and how I would navigate sharing if I decided to or other people's energy and fears being projected towards us. I was really sensitive to that, and so I kept pretty quiet about what we were doing. I didn't want anyone to really know.

Speaker 1

Well, especially with such a public a public life. Yeah. That's that's perfectly understandable. Absolutely. I mean and it's the Internet, so it's not it's not even, you know, choosing to be public about it in your, like, small in person community in your town or something, which also comes with its own potential dangers and sensitivities. But but the for the World Wide Web to, you know, to know this and to be so open to that, trolling and criticism and fear mongering prior when you're in such a sensitive, and and rightfully so, protective space. And so I'm wondering, like, did because that is interesting with with your job and with with kind of the role you're carrying in your life right now. Did it feel was it challenging to kind of compartmentalize that and keep that out of what you shared, or did it just feel very natural that, like, this is our private piece, and then this is what we share publicly?

Speaker 2

Yeah. It was a it was a little hard to navigate initially, and then I sort of decided I need to put some, you know, boundaries up here because I need to protect this space, and I cannot let people's fears and fear mongering really, affect me. I I can't. And so pretty early on, I was just like, this is what I will share. This is what I won't share. And there's this is how it's going to be sort of thing. What I also experienced through, you know, having a public platform where we share our lives, and also experiencing pregnancy and needing to protect our space. I also felt kind of sad that I didn't feel like I could share because it did feel like the most normal thing in the world. And I was just, we were healthy, happy, having a baby. And I wanted to be able to share, but I felt like I couldn't because it felt like what we were doing was too extreme. And meanwhile, I would see people online that were, you know, the similar stage of in their pregnancies, sharing all of this sort of stuff about, getting frequently getting scans. And then in the lead up to around the time it was, you know, their due date or whatever, getting all sorts of interventions and things like that. And I was just a little sad that I felt I couldn't share but their stories were just so normal, that it was just embraced and just treated like completely normal. But ours was, like, a little too extreme, which I don't know. Maybe I should've shared

Speaker 1

my world.

Speaker 2

Oh, yeah. Goodness. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. When I started, I started listening to your podcast when I just before we moved into the bus because I remember I was sewing curtains for the bus, and I was at my parents' house. And so I would just have your podcast on repeat, like just going through all the episodes as I was sewing curtains in my parents' living room. And so I think that's probably when they realized that I was free birthing.

Speaker 1

They're like,

Speaker 2

we've noticed

Speaker 1

that you've listened to eighty five episodes of women free birthing. Funny.

Speaker 2

But, yeah, that's they were, obviously, they're just, like, super supportive. But I'm probably I'm pretty sure that's probably when they realized I was free birthing. Yeah. Yeah. With the scans this time around, I was unsure of what I needed it for really like what it would change. And I didn't do a crazy amount of research or anything like that. I just didn't feel like it's something I wanted to do. And also just the name ultrasound. I looked at it a little differently. This time I was like, oh, ultrasound. I was like, that's how I don't know if that sounds good. I Mhmm. Like, is that something I need as well? Like, what would it change in any of my decisions? And it would have changed nothing. And so I decided, yeah, not to have them this time.

Speaker 1

I love that. So you implied inquiry to these choices and then made an intuitive decision because you are an adult, you know, that is able to make those decisions. And and that's, you know, that that's really the what free birth is about. You know, that's what living with authority as an adult is about, that you actually don't have to be well researched. You don't have to explain your decisions to anybody because you're an adult and you get to make your own decisions about your body. It's that's a human right and in most places, a a a legal right. You know? So I love that you're highlighting that you didn't necessarily do a ton of research or read a ton of books, and it really just speaks to the point that, so what? That that doesn't even matter. You that would really, it sounds like, be rooted in justifying your decisions, and you do not need any other, any other reason other than it was intuitive to me, and that is enough. And and I really hear you on the sadness that came with, making the very wise decision to withhold these intuitive choices about your life to the public. You know, you were very wise to make that decision and in an effort of self protection. But, you know, to your point, you know, that you needed to, or that rather that you were feeling really sad, what what witnessing these other people getting, you know, getting to celebrate their ultrasounds and their, whatever, their inductions and their due dates and all of this stuff that actually, you know, holds great, great, great risk that no one's talking about. And yet, we're witnessing an entire culture romanticizing the interventions and the, the just sabotage of normal physiological birth. And here you are, committing to that and having to or experiencing what, you know, most of us experience is experiencing the silencing of that. And it is, it's so ass backwards and it it it's understandably sad. You know? It should be sad because it is sad and, you know, what I am so excited about of you then working through that and and having your epic euphoric birth and now sharing in that and now celebrating that in a different space that's far more appropriate, because you don't have to self protect in the same way and, and getting to and this episode is a part of that just like you sharing your beautiful video on YouTube and, you know, being this public persona, getting to walk in the light of you choosing to celebrate your choices and, you know, and we'll get to that in a minute of how it was received. But, yeah, I I really I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I can imagine that you have gone through a lot by this this podcast and the platform, I couldn't even imagine. I really honestly thought about that gave me strength to truly when I sat with what you are doing and how powerful and important it is, but how much strength it must take. And I was like, okay. I can do this. Like, I can, like, I'm doing nothing to better this. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Hell, yeah. Good. Good. I'm glad. And that's that's what we're all here for, right, is to inspire each other and to share and hold each other's wisdom and inspire each other in our strengths and in and in what we're doing. And so, you know, you've inspired me in many ways, and and it goes both ways. And it's just so, like, this is what it should be. This is how women, lift each other up, you know, is to is to seek the strength and wisdom from each other and to give that to each other, which we're totally doing. So, yeah, thank you for that reflection, and and I'd love to move towards, the birth of your son.

Speaker 2

Yeah. So leading into going into labor, there was actually, I mentioned earlier that I didn't really have any fear about giving birth, but the fears that I did have were around either, one, going into labor early, like, when I didn't feel comfortable, like, something had gone wrong sort of thing, or going into labor, like at forty past forty three weeks or something where I was like, I would start to feel what if I need to see someone, they were my fears about, it all. So I was forty one weeks pregnant when I went into labor, like I started, I knew that labor was got, like, close. And it was I woke up sort of at two am. And I just knew that labor was coming. I was a bit little bit crampy and stuff. And so I sort of got up because I was excited. Like, woah. Something's going on. And I I told Chris, that I was feeling like labor was going to start. And so he sort of instantly woke right up. He's like, should I feel the birth pool up? I was like, woah, calm down. So eventually, he went back to sleep, and I just ate. I was pretty hungry. That's why I woke up. And then I also went back to, so I went back to bed as well and slept for a couple of hours. Actually, before I get right into it, my sister was here. So during my late my pregnancy, Chris and I both had this vision. It was just three of us, Aya, Chris, and I at the birth. That was just sort of a dream of ours. And then a couple of months before giving birth, I started to really think about what it would be like for Aya and if she would like to have some support there. And just because I didn't think I could be completely present in myself thinking if she was asleep in a different room or something like that, it just wouldn't sit well with me because she sleeps with us, and I cuddle her all night. And if she woke up and we weren't there, it would she'd be upset. Mhmm. So just not knowing when I would be in labor and stuff like that, I started to entertain the idea of asking my sister to be at the birth. And so the night before the day before I went into labor, I was really emotional. And I had rung my sister. I just said to her, look, I want you to come out. Like, if you're free, can you come out and just be with Aya a little bit? Because my daughter absolutely adores my sister. Mhmm. I and, like, I'd asked Aya if she could have anyone with her at the birth, who would she love to play with the most, and who would she maybe like to be able to sleep with if she had to sleep with someone or cuddle? You know? And she said my sister. So and I knew she would. But she said my sister's like the yeah. My sister's like the closest person to our family. Like, we're really close with her, so it just felt right.

Speaker 1

And she didn't blink an eye at your plans to birth unassisted?

Speaker 2

Not at all. No. She was just completely supportive, didn't question it like it was at all. She was just like, Okay, that sounds amazing. I'd love to be there. Basically. She did read actually the anime Gaskin guide to childbirth. She read that book, in my last month of pregnancy, I think just to have a bit of an idea of what it's like to give birth maybe. And I think she really enjoyed reading that book, but she was just completely supportive and trusting of everything. So the day before I went into labor, she'd actually come out to spend some time with AS so that Chris and I could have a bit of time together because I was really emotional and I was obviously probably, you know, preparing to go into labor, but didn't really know it. And so she was here. She just was here that night when I went like, when I woke up at two AM, she was here. So we woke up the day began and it was just perfect because she was already here. And we were just like, okay, we're giving birth today. Today is the day. It was nice. It was just easy. So to get everything going, Chris and I went for a really long walk together, and my contractions sort of started getting more consistent and we came home we all had breakfast and we spoke to a a lot about I think the baby was coming and she was so excited and yeah, it was just a really normal day. We had been living in, we got an Airbnb since I was, I think, thirty three or thirty four weeks, thirty three weeks pregnant, we moved into a house. And we rented it for two months. So we're in here, I think, nearly a month before, we gave birth. And we spent a bit of time actually looking for a perfect place. It was really important to us. We just wanted someone very private in nature surrounded by trees and just beauty, really. Because just having that sort of environment, I know that just seemed important to us. We wanted him to be dispersed into just the most beautiful place that we could picture, you know, like a really a space of loving energy. And so, yeah, we we got this place. And a month into our stay here, I went into labor. So, yeah, it was just a really normal day. We went for a walk in the morning. And contractions started getting quite consistent. And then back at home, my sister and, Aya were just playing together all day, and it was just so nice to just come out and be with us whenever she wanted to. And she knew that she could just come out at any time. And then she was just, I knew she was really safe and happy playing with my sister.

Speaker 1

She could relax.

Speaker 2

It was just it was so relaxing. I was just so at peace with where Aya was and stuff like that, which was super important. I couldn't have been present in labor whilst I was also worried if she was okay. But we'd set up a birth pool out on our deck, and it was probably around ten or eleven in the morning. And I said to Chris, maybe fill it up, and I'll probably spend most of my labor out here because I was thinking, oh, might be ages off. I might have a bath or shower if I need to, but it was just so beautiful out there. I was like, oh, let's just hang out out here and, see how we go. So he set that up and we sort of set up a bit of a space out there. And I was getting to a point around that time where I just wanted to really focus more. And I didn't really wanna be, like, chit chatting with, Ayer or anything like that. I just needed to sort of calm down and focus on what was going on. So we just sort of got into it, really. I this labor, I with every contraction, this labor, I was like, I open. I the stronger, the better. I'm opening, I surrender. And there wasn't the fear there that was surrounding like pain and stuff the first time with AI. Like it was, I was scared because it was getting so intense. I was like, where is this going to go? Like, woah, this is too much. And so I think I mentioned I felt like I was holding on a little bit. But this time, I was just determined to be like, just go with it as much as I possibly could. So, yeah, that's what I did. And once again, it's very normal is how I would describe it. I

Speaker 1

gonna be the name of your episode.

Speaker 2

Truly It was normal. Yeah. Labor just progressed, got more and more intense. It was mainly just Chris and I out there the whole time. We were just listening to music. He meditated next to the pool quite a bit, which was really interesting because when he started doing that I remember I sat up I'd had my eyes closed and I was just like, what are you doing? Because my contractions honestly got longer in duration but less intense in a way. But I I I truly I felt like I knew he was he was doing something. And when I looked over, he's like, was meditating and he was really picturing, like, sending me and a baby, like, loving energy and, like, light and just really sending us, his energy and support, I suppose. And I felt like I really felt that it was a super nice part of the labor. But, yeah, it was just really peaceful out there. And every now and then, I'd get out of the pool and just go for a little walk because it really progressed my labor walking. So I thought, like, let's do this. Let's do this, and I'd go for a walk or hang off, like, some gymnastic rings we had out on the deck there. And it got before I knew it, it got really intense pretty quickly. I didn't keep track of time, and I didn't, time any of the contractions or anything like that. We just sort of went with it. So in this time, my daughter is coming out. And so she got to see, like, it was progressing. And I was also somewhat in denial, the whole labor that I was in labor, and this was happening, and I was going to have the baby, I think it was sort of like a way for me to try to be mentally prepared for a longer labor in a way. I was like, I remember saying to my sister, she'd come out, and I was heavily in labor. And I said to her, you know, I'm in labor, right? This is labor. And she was like, she looked at me. She sort of laughed. She was like, if if you're not in labor, this is literally the most bizarre thing I have ever seen in my life. Wrong with you if you're not. So it's like, okay. Okay. This is Layla. I just kept saying to Chris, like, it could be long like, I was just really trying to mentally prepare in some ways for it to be longer and not giving birth today.

Speaker 1

How long was your first birth?

Speaker 2

Fifteen hours. Okay. Got it. And and I said this whole time, I'm like, I know this labor's gonna be shorter. Like, I was guessing around six hours, seven hours. So I don't know what I was doing, but I was in denial to some degree. And How long did you

Speaker 1

wind up being?

Speaker 2

We think about six hours in total. Yeah.

Speaker 1

It got to the point that

Speaker 2

it got to the point where contractions are just on top of each other. I really wasn't getting much of a break, but I was still really there much more so than with my daughters. I was like in this other place with her and with him. I was really aware of what was going on, and I could have a chat still. And I don't know. And I said to Chris, all of a sudden, like, alright. And I'm done with this. I'm not into this. I don't know about this. Like I don't like this anymore

Speaker 1

He was like

Speaker 2

he was like I think is this I think you told me this is transitioning. I think you're transitioning I was like babe, I'm not in transition. This is like, I've got so much longer to go. He's like, really? He's like, I feel like you're at the end. Like, I feel like he's gonna be here soon. I was like, no. No, that's ridiculous. Well, yeah, I was transitioning. And, not long after that, I was mid contraction. And all of a sudden, I felt like the need to push. Actually, just prior to that happening, Chris had got a mirror and put it under me so I could see. And that helped me so much. It was almost like this shift in perspective where I was seeing things happening. It wasn't just a feeling I was truly actually opening and I could feel myself opening, but to see it with my eyes was amazing and something that I hadn't done with my first. And I absolutely loved that and it really helped me to stay focused. So, yeah, I was mid contraction and then oh, no. Sorry. With that mirror, we saw, my waters sort of come out a little and then pop. And that was so cool. We were just like Chris and I both just like looking into the mirror when that happened, and I remember Oh, nice. Yeah. We that was really cool. And then, yes, not too long after that, I started getting the urge to push. And from that moment of needing to push, I couldn't I could hardly make a sound. I just everything was just silent. And I was so internal. I could just it was the coolest feeling ever. I could just feel exactly where he was and what was going on. And as intense as it was, I it was incredible to just feel your child being born so aware of everything that was going on in my body. And I love that stage of labor. Like, I really enjoy the pushing stage. And, yeah, at that time, my sister said they were actually watching a movie and my daughter doesn't often get to watch movies. And when she does, oh my gosh, she you cannot get her away. She's like just sucked into this little vortex. And so she actually just stopped the movie and said to my sister, oh, we have to go and see mommy now. And so Minna was like, she was like, oh, okay. And they came out and it was I just started needing to push and they needed to be there, if they wanted to see, the birth. So she just knew. And she came out and yeah, we there's a you can see in the video, our birthing video, she was so supportive, and it was awesome to have her there. I just felt so incredibly supported by the people that were there and just so safe. Everything was just right, and it just felt good. And it was probably ten minutes, maybe, needing to push, when he like, his head came out. And I didn't have, like, the ring of fire or anything this time. It was just he was much bigger as well than my daughter, but once again, it was just other than fullness Yeah. Normal. He just he said yes. His head came out, and then Chris and Aya climbed into the pool because we sort of had spoken a little bit about like, we wanted to catch him together. We wanted to like, welcome him, the three of us. And, yeah, he was born into the water and we sort of brought him up onto my chest. And we just met him. And that was that really. It was, it was so nice and so calm.

Speaker 1

Mhmm.

Speaker 2

There was no and just not having other people there like their midwife, just running over or, like, rubbing him and being, you know, just so involved, like, with our daughter. This was just so calm. And we sort of I sat in the pool for a while with him. He just fell back asleep. Like after he was born, he just carried on sleeping. Hey. You wanna, like, say hello or anything? And he didn't. He just wanted to play.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I I and and I hope, you know, people who listen to this will will seek out your your beautiful birth video that you shared, or or maybe we can share it under Freebird Society as well so that people can find it. Because that you know, you're you're you're sharing of that video and taking us to that sacred sacred moment when he's born, was profound to me for a couple of reasons. One, the inclusion of your daughter is so huge, you know, and and like you just described, it wasn't forced. It was just an invitation and she was totally welcomed and, that you were totally open to it. And that she, at a very young age, you know, held the space with you guys, as I have seen consistently. I've never ever attended a birth where children didn't know how to kinda handle it. You know, they just, at all ages, are just so intuitive and so sweet and, and like your daughter, kinda pop in and out, you know, and then, sometimes are present for the actual emergence and sometimes not. But I I love the inclusion of her, because we just don't see it enough. And obviously, the way that hospital birth compartmentalizes, you know, the the whole process, you know, so the majority of children, older siblings are being brought a child to their home and being completely excluded from this massive, massive ritual in a family. So I loved that so much. And then and then the other piece is, when he emerged, I'm totally recalling it in my mind right now. When he emerged, your calmness, your partner's calmness, your daughter's calmness, even the nature, you know, that you were surrounded in calmness, and that nobody spoke, you know, and that the way that he came out and the way that your energy of calm just radiated in in that video. And that he didn't come out screaming, crying, you know, immediately making all this noise or, all of these kind of quintessential things like you think you're supposed to see, when we see in media. That in fact, he was very calm and quiet from what I can remember in those that first, you know, immediate immediate immediate postpartum and that, nobody even said anything. Maybe your daughter did very sweetly, but it was just the epitome of calm transformation of of his transition. Yeah. And that that was my big takeaway was the inclusion of her and the just radiating calmness that he was brought into primarily from you. Like, you were the, of course, central, player in the entire thing, obviously. And then that your family so honored and intuitively knew how to support that calmness that you were radiating first and foremost, and so everyone responded to that. It was just so beautiful.

Speaker 2

Yeah. It was really nice, and I wanted it to be like that for him. I just thought, you know, what is the most beautiful, peaceful way that he could come into the world? And I thought, you know, with his family, in a space of love, like with nature, and just calmly and so was definitely something I thought about going into, giving birth to him that I just wanted it to be a calm space for him. Nailed it. I was grateful that, yeah, it it went like that. It's funny. My part like, Chris is really very calming, relaxed person, and I'm a little more, like, a little more dramatic and sassy, I'd say. And I'd feel like my daughter's like a little dramatic and she was born how, you know, how I'd imagine her being born. And I'd always known our like, our son was just going to be more like Chris and just very calm little guy, and I've just felt that so strongly. So I was like, that's how he wanted to be born, and that's how Chris would choose to be born. And how I was born, like, she I I would have been born like her, like, a little more dramatic.

Speaker 1

That's cute.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And so how

Speaker 2

But yeah. So yeah.

Speaker 1

Can you tell us a bit about the birth of your placenta?

Speaker 2

Yeah. I was a little nervous to birth the placenta because I found it quite hard, with Ayanna, and I wasn't ready for those contractions again. I didn't know it was going to be like that. And I've heard some people speak about just like, you know, it's sliding out or whatever. And it was quite intense the first time. So with him, I was like, not looking forward to it. And we'd gotten out of the pool. And we were in bed for a while. He'd had his first feed there. And I thought, okay, it's probably time to birth the placenta. And so we sort of all went into the bathroom. It probably be about forty five minutes after he was born, maybe an hour. And I just squatted over, like a big bowl. And I just said, like, I release, I release. And then the placenta sort of slowly came out. And that was that. We had planned on having a lotus birth. And so Chris cleaned the placenta, like, rinsed it and, put it into, like, a draining bowl, with him. And I had a quick I had a quick shower with my daughter, and we came out and sort of wrapped up the placenta. No. No. We left it in the bowl to drain and Yeah, I thought we'd have a full lotus birth and that night You know when we were trying to put our daughter to sleep and it was not convenient. Yeah. Totally. Let's just say that. And Yeah. I said to yeah. I just said to Chris then, I was like, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if it's worth the extra stress having, you know, a three year old and it with the placenta still there and trying to navigate how I could care for him as well as I wanted to when I yeah. And Chris really felt like I don't know. It was Chris was like, you told me that it was gonna be difficult, and you told me that you're impatient and that I should try to reassure you that we can get through it. And I was like, I hate you. Stop talking. I take it all back. Yeah. Take it all

Speaker 1

back. But, also, what's the point? I mean, I don't know. I guess, what's the point if it if it does cross the threshold, which it doesn't always? I've known many women who have done lotus birth and and didn't find it inconvenient, and I had the same experience as you. I had intended for that, and then after about, like eleven, twelve hours, I was like, okay. I I think we're done here. And the the logistics of it were not, conducive to to how, yeah, how things needed to be. But so yeah. I mean, I think when you when you cross if you cross the threshold into it being annoying, then is it really worth, like, if the energy is there already that it's annoying? I don't know. Yeah. Anyway.

Speaker 2

I really agree for us. I agree with that. And and we ended up he was had his placenta attached for just shy of three days. We went with it because I just felt like, you know, I wanted to give him that time. But at the same

Speaker 1

Oh, so he talked you

Speaker 2

back into it. Oh, so I guess Chris was like, how about we Chris was like, how about we try to get through tonight? And I was like, easy for you to say. Yeah.

Speaker 1

I'm like Exactly. You're like, I'm bleeding. I'm breastfeeding.

Speaker 2

I've got like three year old like attached to me as well and we got through the knot and then The next morning straight away when we woke up, I was like, okay, I think I want to burn the cord. Like, let's burn the cord. I don't think I don't want to do another night like that. I just didn't feel like I could care for him as well as I wanted to. And as best as I could, you know, I just it was just harder. And then the day came and Chris was like, well, maybe we could just try to get through today. I think the day would be easier. And so it was, and we got through the day. And I was like, well, we could just go tonight as well. And Chris, like, yeah, we could get through tonight, then it might be only one more day. But I just didn't want it to be like that. I didn't want it to be something I had to get through. You know?

Speaker 1

Why was it so important to him?

Speaker 2

I just think that he his from his perspective, I think he views like our children or babies in general as just like we just have to completely honor them and they're just like the most divine Things in this whole world like we like our teachers in our ways and like he was sort of thinking like maybe we need to give him that time to like it would be the most gentle way for him to come into this world, but from my perspective, it was sort of like, yeah, but like it's stressing me out and I'm his mother and maybe it's not the best thing. Like, maybe anyway, so we got it was, like, two and a half days into it. And Chris had cleaned the, umbilical cord the night before, and he put a drop of, like, Frankincense oil or something in the water. Anyway, his umbilical cord got so hard. Is that normal like completely rock hard?

Speaker 1

Yeah

Speaker 2

Yeah, and so I just thought it was honestly dangerous. It was nearly ready to come off.

Speaker 1

Yeah,

Speaker 2

but he kicked it during the night. It didn't come off, but it was bleeding. And that's the first time he'd ever cried. And I got out of bed realized it was, his navel was bleeding and I was just like, absolutely cannot keep doing this. It did not feel right. I got Chris up and I was like stressed. I was like, this is the first time he's ever cried. Like, I cannot this, I can't. And so I ended up cutting his cord, like it was completely dried up and, instantly, honestly, the energy changed. I just was so much more relieved. He was relieved. Like Chris even noticed that I am like, our son was like, something changed. And Chris just said to me straight away, he's like, oh my gosh. You made the right decision. That was exactly what you needed to do.

Speaker 1

Yeah. I mean, it's as if you knew because you had just birthed your baby as if you had a maternal instinct that, you know, should have been centered. But yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I think as well, like, in Chris's defense, like, I'd said to him, like, look, this is probably gonna be something that I would, like, be like, okay. Let's not do it once we'd started.

Speaker 1

Right.

Speaker 2

Maybe. And I was like, can you try to support me through it? Because I think, you know, I'd like to do this and stuff. So Chris probably had that in his head as well. Like, no. You told me that let me through this.

Speaker 1

But that's interesting because it's not it's not like it's it's birth. It's not like you were like, in transition, if I say go to the hospital, you know, tell me you know, it's like it's too perpamento. Like, you can be fluid with that. But, yeah, I hear what you're saying that his his intention, he obviously thought it was gonna be the most peaceful thing and you had already prefaced this with I might, wanna back out and and help support me to do it. Yeah. So it's not it's not to dog on him, but at the same time, like, of course, you knew, and that is motherhood to be constantly flowing with what is available. And and, you know, and then and I just did an episode on this. Lotus birth does sound very romantic, and I really resonate with the concept of it. But in practicality, it's just not for everybody. And that's just true, you know, and and it is so beautiful and wonderful for some families, and it's also a total pain in the ass for other families.

Speaker 2

I totally agree. And I wouldn't personally probably choose to do that again, especially because I think we'll have one more child and, I couldn't imagine doing lotus birth with two kids. I know that some people do it, though, and having great experiences, but I was just like, wow. No. You're obviously not doing it.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think, you know, do you know, having a very it's all about doing whatever you do with reference, you know. So you said, you know, that your husband thinks, you know, babies are the most, whatever, sacred and, you know, light beings that we need to be gentle with and absolutely. A hundred percent. And there's I don't think a cord burning ceremony, you know, where your daughter and you and your husband and and then, you know, eventually now your son because he'll be older with with your third, you know, you guys could absolutely do a very, very beautiful sacred ceremonial, ritual where all of you hold the beeswax candles over the cord and and you thank the placenta and you tell the baby what's gonna happen. I mean, that is so peaceful and and beautiful and and where's that line? You know, it's not, I mean, I just did an episode on this. I even think throwing your placenta away in the trash can be done ritualistically and with with reverence and with honor, you know, if you don't have the option to bury or even the desire, like, whatever you do Totally. You know, can be done with with total love and and respect to this sweet little soul. And and, you know, you already know this, but I'm just gonna reinforce this. You did give your baby the most peaceful, gentle entry into the world that is literally possible. So you did that. Absolutely. Regardless that you could burn the cord or even even if you had cut the cord or whatever, you know, your intention with Lotus Birth was to give him the most gentle and peaceful entry, and you a hundred percent did that.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I I so agree about what you're saying about the energy surrounding, like, how you do what you do and your intention. And, yeah, I think that for us, the energy of doing the lotus birth and how much, like, additional stress that caused, it was just not worth it for us Totally. In the end. So yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, after we sort of sorted out the placenta and came down to the kitchen, and my sister was making us dinner, and we just literally carried on living our lives. Right. I was like, it was dinner. And we told no one that, like, I'd gone into labor or anything like that, which was also just so nice to not have anyone, you know, waiting to hear if he'd been born or anything like that or, like, checking in. So, yeah, that night, we just sort of let our parents know and, yeah, we had dinner and we went to bed. That was it. Oh, I love it. Oh, it

Speaker 1

really doesn't get any better than that. That's so good. And then I guess the last thing we're we've gone on for a while, so I'll I'll just close with this question. The last thing I was I was curious about was how has it felt to be open about you know, you shared your birth video where there's clearly no midwife, and it's clearly an outside at home, you know, birth. And, it seemed from from what little I saw, it seemed like the response was wonderful, but how has it felt for you, behind the scenes being the actual birthing woman who's put this out into the world? What what has it felt like for you?

Speaker 2

I think the biggest thing for me was giving birth to him and then just feeling so reassured that I've made the right decision. And that was the biggest thing for me. Just I felt I could trust myself, and I was right in doing so. And so I wanted to share from that place in where I felt really confident in my decisions in how we decided to birth. I I knew what we'd done was right. So then when I was to share, you know, other people's opinions couldn't really affect me so much when in in myself, I was, like, standing really strong and in our decisions, and I knew we'd made the right ones. So I wanted to share from that place, and I was completely overwhelmed with The response we had from showing that video. I've never had anything like that before just literally thousands of women messaging me, emailing me, just saying, basically, how grateful they were to see such a calm birth and that they didn't know birth could be like that. And It just was really reassuring and also just it's so nice, you know, it's It's nice to feel supported. It was a really great experience going through, pregnancy and just keeping it really private and stuff, but also It's nice to have support networks and it would have been nice to have so many, you know, like it and so it was just it was reassuring that we were doing the right thing. And that it could you know, if it could help someone else have a more gentle birth or empowered birth, then it was just like, woah, that's really cool. I'm stoked that we could do that. But yeah, it feels good to just own something as well. This is like our story and our experience and it's important and the more that I'm learning about birth and my own experiences And I just, I don't know if there's much more important things to talk about than how we birth our children. And I just think it's incredibly like healing as a society, and that trauma begins often at birth and that we can, like, heal that together. And it's so important. It's so, so important. So it's nice to be sharing things that I feel are truly, you know, impactful.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Paradigm shifting. Oh my god. I mean, it's it's why I'm in this work. I mean, you just birthed a future man, you know, in your power, in your instinct, you know, breastfed him and and gave him a gentle entry, the the what's the right word? The consequences of not birthing future men in a gentle woman centered, environment is so fucking dangerous. You know? Like, it's it's why I do this. You know? It's it's, yes, it is impactful. It is paradigm shifting. It is actually imperative to our emotional and and physical survival on this planet to move out of the warrior, you know, paradigm and into a matriarchal, you know, love, health, balance, peace, you know, all of the stuff that that we're working towards and that we know about, it absolutely starts in birth and and in pregnancy, and it's cyclical cyclical. Right? Because when a woman, feels centered and powerful and and able safe enough to be in her instinct and in her intuition, and supported to be in that, she will, she will mother in such a way that actually supports the biological imperatives of, you know, of of not just survival, but of thriving.

Speaker 2

I so feel that.

Speaker 1

Yeah. It's a very big deal, and I'm I'm so grateful to you, and to to all women who are willing to be, vocal about these choices because we're up against a lot. We're up against a lot, you know, and a lot of fear and a lot of a lot of, ignorance and, a lot of, you know, just blatant misogyny. And so, you know, women like you are our lighthouses that you were, you know, willing and able and in an environment and and all of this stuff that you had, the family dynamic and and everything to birth in a beautiful, powerful way, and then share that with the world. And I really like what you just spoke about how you said after the birth, you were so, secure in your decision and knowing that it was the right one that you felt ready to share, and that's exactly right. And that's that's what I felt in my pregnancy, and and I talk about this with Yolanda a lot, that when you're really solid, period, when you're really solid in your decisions, in your life, when you're truly in your power and in your authenticity, when you're really comfortable with that, nothing shakes you. Right? Because

Speaker 2

you

Speaker 1

make the trans the transition from living, you know, for outside validation to having actually figured out how to cultivate it within yourself and within your family dynamic and you did that. Right? You did the fucking work. You sat with that darkness and the intensity and the all of the stuff that this, you know, bright sun brought into your life in that beginning part of your pregnancy and, you know, all of the work that you and your partner have done to create the life that you have, and the birth that you did and, you know, all of this, it's like, of course nothing can shake that now because you found your truth. Nobody can tell you that what you did was irresponsible because you are living in the aftermath of birthing in power. Right? And so now you're fucking unshakable. Right? And so you now have

Speaker 2

completely,

Speaker 1

rebirthed yourself as a powerful woman in the world. Not that you weren't before, but that you eve you are even more so. And this is why birth is so intentionally oppressed, harmed, and sabotaged, and, you know, drugged up and and kept, from our hands. Because if women were walking around in the masses feeling like you and I do, holy shit. Right? Like, it would be fundamentally destructive to patriarchy because we are living, right, in in our power, in our truth, in our authenticity, and radiating that life to the people around us. And that is inherently dangerous to an a culture that, that that is actually systematically created to keep that light down in women. And so I'm so appreciative of you telling, your story today and and so excited for where the story will go around the world, because it is it is an important story. And also, as we've said, the theme of this call, it's also the most normal birth story, because that it is normal. Right? It is normal to birth, beautiful, optimal, wonderful birth. It's normal to feel great after birth. It's normal to heal after birth. All of this stuff, you know, needs to be re remembered by, by women around the planet that what you experienced and what I experienced is normal. Is it common? Nope. But is it normal? Yes. And that's what we're reclaiming.

Speaker 2

Yeah. It's, definitely something that even now having gone through that experience that I'm just really honestly starting to come to terms with myself, just like the layers of my own conditioning and how I've perceived, birth and motherhood and all sorts of things. I'm really still just seeing how deep this goes, how, like, the fear and conditioning and silencing of women. And it's it's yeah, it's definitely it's full on. So I am yeah, I'm super grateful this for the experience myself, but also for, yeah, things like this podcast and stuff where people are sharing their stories because it's so important that we do that. Otherwise, you know, the message doesn't really spread and Right. Yeah.

Speaker 1

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, and congratulations on your beautiful son. And I'm just in awe of your intuition, and, it's just so beautiful. It's so, so beautiful and so normal, and and thank you for your voice.

Speaker 2

Oh, thank you so much, Emily. And, yeah, it's been it's so nice to talk to you on here.

Speaker 1

That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.

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