Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea. Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. Over a decade ago, my friend Nancy attempted a home birth in Sweden that was unfortunately sabotaged by licensed midwives. This launched Nancy into healing, learning, and even becoming a birth worker. Finding herself with a new partner in a new country, Nancy describes the beautiful journey of consciously conceiving her son in Mexico and birthing him in her son in Mexico and birthing him in total power and in freedom.
Speaker 2
My daughter came flying down from the cosmos. She just really wanted to be here. I was very much, in some ways, not ready for that, but I said a full yes. You know? I was twenty four, living in Sweden, kinda back and forth between New York and Sweden because her dad is Swedish, living, like, a super typical kind of New York City life of, like, waiting tables, being a nanny, going into school, having three roommates. You know? Suddenly, I'm pregnant and I'm like, okay. What are we gonna do? So we decide to move to Sweden, and we move into this, like, tiny little cabin of, my husband at the time. Well, we were actually not married yet, but, it's this beautiful little cabin that actually his grandfather built. Tiny little thing, like, tiny little town from New York City to the tiniest little town, like, on the coast by a by a little forest in Sweden knowing no one, and I'm seven months pregnant.
Speaker 1
Woah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Super intense, and, like, that's in February. It's like the darkest and coldest of the
Speaker 1
year. Wow.
Speaker 2
So that yeah. That's kinda where where it all began. And funny enough, I already had the inclination to free birth at that point in my life. I don't really know how this happened, but as soon as I became pregnant, I was like, okay. I have to do this naturally. I didn't have any where, like, near the kind of knowledge that I have now, but I just had this knowing inside of me that it had to be natural. So I start, like, googling natural birth and Unassisted Birth by Laura family came up. And I was like, what's this? And so we ordered that book.
Speaker 1
Aw.
Speaker 2
And, you know, my ex husband, he's super open, very onboard with, like, whatever I thought was best. And so we both just, like, dive into that book, and we're like, this is gonna be so great. And I think the mistake that I made was actually telling everyone.
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 2
Right? Alright. And so I I guess I should backtrack a tiny bit. So this was before I Actually,
Speaker 1
but but I also just wanna pause and say, you didn't do anything wrong by telling people the thing that's wrong is that people are fucking assholes, you know, that don't trust you and that get involved in women's business. That's
Speaker 2
the Exactly.
Speaker 1
Piece, which okay. Yes. Of course, it was a mistake to tell people because they're the wrong people to tell. But
Speaker 2
yeah. Right.
Speaker 1
Not inherently wrong to tell people. Right? It's a bummer that, of course, you are received properly.
Speaker 2
Exactly. So I was all like, yeah. We're gonna do this thing, like, at home with just us. It's gonna be great. And then it was like, smash, smash, smash down. You know? Like, no. That's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. And I was super vulnerable, like, pregnant, sensitive, and then kind of somewhat unstable space of, like, moving between countries, you know, and I was just open and vulnerable. And so by the time I got to Sweden at seven months pregnant, I started to have major doubts. And I was like, I don't think I can do this alone. I need to hire a midwife. And, my ex husband was like, you can do it. It's just like when you get on the stage and sing, because I actually was in a little band at that point in my life. He's like, and you're always nervous, but you always do it. Like, he was just so cute and sweet, you know, and I was like, I don't know. I just I think I need another woman there, you know. And so, that was before I even knew what a doula was, actually. And so I was just, like, midwife. You know? I gotta find a midwife. So the way it works in that part of Sweden is that mid basically, home births are, like, nonexistent. Like, nobody hardly ever does them. If they do, they get a midwife who normally works at the hospital who happens to be, like, quote, the most radical midwife in that hospital who can come to your house. So it's basically like bringing the hospital into your home. Yeah. And we found two a midwife who worked with another one in this area, and that's all we could find. And they had normally done, they've been doing birth after birth after birth in the hospital, working day to day in the hospital setting. Everybody It's not midwifery, by the way. Thank you. Because I was I was gonna say, everybody has this view of Sweden of being, like, this super progressive place, which in so many ways it is, and I am so grateful to Sweden in so many ways because of that. However, there's a lot of work to be done in the birth department. Like, now everybody's there. Yeah. Exactly. So true. But they have this thing of, like, oh, it's a midwife led thing. But I'm like, no. It's it's like, they're more like nurses. You know? They are nurses. Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Well, they call them midwives there.
Speaker 1
No. I know. But they're CNMs. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. They're
Speaker 1
nurse they're nurse midwives, which is not
Speaker 2
Right. Which is
Speaker 1
not what we think of when we think of midwifery.
Speaker 2
Exactly. So I ended up hiring them. I think more than anything out of just fear and feeling really vulnerable. I had spent, like, a month at my parents' place, when I was six months pregnant and saying I was gonna do a home birth. I didn't even say that I was gonna do an unassisted birth, and they were, like, you know, like, just every day being, like, it's so dangerous. It's so dangerous. It's so dangerous. Yeah. It really deeply affected me. And so I feel like by the time I was hiring them, I was, like, already just, I don't know, I had given over part of my power. You know? I could see that really clearly now looking back. So I hired them. They're like, oh, we're just gonna sit here. We're not gonna do anything. And I had all these questions for them, you know, and they were like, no. We're not gonna do anything. You know? I was like, okay. This is gonna be great. So I started off in my birth pool laboring. It was a beautiful spring day. It was so so cool because the plants literally had just, like, burst out from underneath the ground. I go on a walk in my labor and, like, see this family of deer in the forest. Like, there were so many magical parts of it. But the midwives are really odd. They were kind of sitting on my couch just staring at me. And, like, looking back, I'm like, why did I call them so early? You know? I know all this now, but whatever. And I was having contractions that were just very pleasurable.
Speaker 1
I had worked with You called them because it's nice to have women and it's nice to be supported. You didn't know they were gonna weirdly just stare at you. Right. Right? There's there's nothing wrong. In fact, it makes complete sense that women want women around. It's just so freaking hard to find.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 1
Intuitive, you know, great support. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Exactly. So, yeah, we're in this tiny cabin, like, the birth pool takes up, like, almost the whole living room, And I'm laboring in there. I had worked a little bit with hypno hypnosis, and so I was just, like, riding the waves, you know, and, actually, I was feeling pretty good. I didn't have any pain. And I think that was really perplexing to them. And they were like, are you feeling anything? Are you feeling anything? Is anything and I'm like, yeah. And so it kind of slowly over time, they just kept putting me in more in my head, more in my head. Right? And, and then, like, everything sort of progressed really well until suddenly, I had this feeling that my body was really being taken over by this force. And for me, it was a deeply spiritual experience. It started to get extremely psychedelic as well. Like, I was looking at the paintings on my wall, and they were literally melting. And I was like, woah. Nobody told me about this. You know? And I'm looking over at my partner and I'm like and I said the classic thing. Right? Like, I can't do this anymore. And he was he said the most beautiful words, like, you can. The only thing you have to do is be present in this moment right now. Just this one moment. You know? And I was like, okay. And I feel like if I could've just gotten in that zone with him, everything would've ended smoothly. But the midwives this is, like, my most vivid memory of, like, where it all went astray. The midwives face just, like, popped into my sphere, you know, and she hung her head, like, over the birth pool and was like, are you feeling the urge to push? And I was like, and then I started to analyze it all. Right? And I'm like, was that the urge to push?
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
Was that just a I don't know. And she was like because if you're not feeling the urge to push, like, you need to be put you need to be pushing soon. Now it's been a long time, and now I need to check you, and now you need to get out the pool. And and that was just where everything turned. Right? And I wasn't super vulnerable and being, like, opened up by this person. Yeah. And and so I get out of the pool and in this whole thing. Right? And she checks she checks my dilation, and I'm nine point five centimeters out open. There's this tiny piece of cervix. Right? This is, like, such a classic story as well for those listening. Like, yeah, there's a little piece of cervix, and we're gonna just mess with it for so long. Right? And for me, what I I just needed space and time, and I needed to be able to totally dissolve Right. Into the godhead. Like, that's what I felt like. You know? But suddenly, it was, like, all about my physicality. Nothing about, like, what are you feeling, you know? Because I was feeling fear at that moment. I was feeling fear of this enormous force that was moving through my body because suddenly, it was like the birth had turned. Right? I was working with the waves and then suddenly, you you eventually get to that place where it's like, you have to surrender now. Right? And that's where I was.
Speaker 1
Like, what is happening that women are just sabotaging each other like this?
Speaker 2
I know. I know.
Speaker 1
I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It was a a big bummer, to say the least, but we'll get there in a little bit. But so basically, to sort of make a long story short, hours go by, and they're like, you're still at nine point five. You need to, this was quite funny. They had me pulling on the robozo, which is a, like, a big piece of material. It actually comes from Mexico where I'm currently living, and they're like, this is a Mexican technique. You're gonna pull on this fabric while we pull on the other two ends and push with all your might. First of all, I've never seen that done here. I'm like, is this really a thing? I don't know. We work with the ribose in a totally different way here. Yeah. But, you know, so I'm pulling on this thing and, like, pushing against them I'm literally popping blood vessels in my face. Like, it's so messed up. And I'm trying to get that piece of cervix out of the way. But meanwhile, like, I didn't have the urge to push. So I'm going completely against what the body is wanting. Right? My daughter starts to get into this weird position from all this where she's kind of coming wanting to come out like a unicorn. That's all American big o. That's what I tell her. I'm like, you're a little unicorn. So, like, more like her forehead. Right? And then that, of course, starts to become an issue. Right? They're like, oh, she's now in a bad position. You know? And I am just defeated at this point. Sure. And I'm in a lot of pain as well. Like, it had gone from, like, totally riding those waves to, like, oh, this is brutal. Because I could feel it all in my back, you know, and I was really committed to, like, not using any kind of pain relief or anything. But they're like, oh, let's do some acupuncture. And they're like, shoving this needle in my, like, ankle, which was just, like, awkward. And then at one point, she's like, okay. You need oxytocin. You need pitocin because your body your serve your uterus is tired. You know?
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. Let's let's hyperextend your uterus when it's tired at home. Oh. Wait. Meaning, like, you have to go to hospital to get it?
Speaker 2
No. They actually had some with them.
Speaker 1
They get put in labor at home.
Speaker 2
Right?
Speaker 1
That is so dangerous.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Interesting. Right? Like, they did that and I was just so in this, like, weird zone at that point. It was so difficult for me to say no to things.
Speaker 1
Of course.
Speaker 2
And then they're like, we need taking you over. Yeah. And they're like, we need to pop your water.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. No.
Speaker 2
Because she's just, like, she's not coming down and, you know well, you know, the whole typical story. Wow.
Speaker 1
I'm
Speaker 2
like, on my bed, they're popping the water, and it's like this amazing gush and just beautiful. And I'm like, oh, it's really clear. That's good. You know? And then just some hours still keep passing and I'm not because, you know, it had been, like, totally sabotaged by that point. I needed a space to really relax and I'm in Christmas.
Speaker 1
Literally everyone does.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And so then they go in the kitchen and start, like, whispering in Swedish, which at that point in my life, I didn't speak Swedish yet. And I'm like, what are they doing? You know? And I was and I went into the bathroom with my with my partner and I was like, okay. The baby's gonna come. The baby's gonna come. The baby's gonna come. Because I think we sort of understood that they were thinking about the hospital. Right? And we're just, like, looking at each other, like, come on. Like, you know, it was it was everything for us to have that home birth, like, everything. And then they come in and they're like, okay, guys. We need to transfer to the hospital. She's in a bad position, like, you have this lip cervix lip that's not going away, and now it's just been too long. You know? Uh-huh. Now mind you, it wasn't that long. I mean, now that I know what I know about birth, god, births can be fucking long. Right?
Speaker 1
How many hours was it?
Speaker 2
From, like, at that point, it had probably only been twelve.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. Yeah. Wow. Oh my god. Wow.
Speaker 2
You know? And, like, so many time. So many of those bridge. Yeah. And so many of those twelve hours were just, like, beautiful and blissful.
Speaker 1
And you already got to nine within a I mean, oh, it doesn't even matter if it had been forty eight hours, obviously, like, get your get your shitty attitudes out of your space.
Speaker 2
But But I just wanna mention that because, like, they're like, oh, it's been too long. Mhmm. And so, eventually, we get in, oh, this is the part that just sucks. We go so I'm just like, okay. We're going to the hospital, you know, and I'm looking at myself in the mirror, these blood vessels are I just don't recognize myself. You know? And I'm, like, just trying to, like, figure out how to get my clothes on and, you know, I did not have, like, a backup hospital bag or anything. Like, I was totally committed to birthing at home, so I was just, like, scrambling to get things together and my partner was working with me. And then we get out on the grass, the ambulance just pulled up, and I have the urge to push. And, like, it comes so strong that I'm, like, hanging on my partner's neck, you know, and, like, now why didn't I just, like, turn my ass around and go back in my house? I don't know. Like, looking back on it, I'm like, wow. It's so interesting that I just continued to go and get in the ambulance. But it was, like, already just defeated. Right? That that energy, and I was, like, oh, now I'm pushing. So I get in the ambulance, and they go, try not to push in here. I'm like, are you kidding me? Like, we've been waiting all this time for me to finally be pushing, and now I'm told not to push. My husband was, like, in the front. I couldn't reach his hand. It was an moment of deep sadness for me.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Feeling really alone and abandoned. So I ride to the hospital, get out, and I'm like, you guys, the baby's head is in my pants. Like, that's how it felt. You know? And they kinda, like, pat me on the back, like, yeah. I don't think so. You know, that kind of, like, no. Not quite. I get in there and I, like, rip off my clothes and they had a birthing stool, and I sat on that and they're like, oh, like, you're crowning, you know. She's right here, and I'm like, yeah. And that's what I was trying to tell you. They shove more pitocin in me without asking. Then they're like, oh, you're getting a bit swollen. Like, you need to move to the bed to push. Yeah. So I'm, like, on the bed, but, like, laying on my side with my leg up. And then they're like, okay. We're gonna cut you now, like, doing a episiotomy. Right? Without asking. Not like, can we? And so I'm like, I don't know how, Emily, but I had the the something to say no. Mhmm. And I said it pretty strongly, I think. Because the whole my whole labor had just gone inward, inward, inward, and I was barely speaking, actually. But at this point, I was like, no. And thankfully, they listened to me, and I think it kind of shocked them of, like, oh, she's actually, like, having
Speaker 1
Oh, she's there?
Speaker 2
That's a real person? Yeah. And so they did not give me an episiotomy. Thank god. And then shortly, she shot out. I had the fetal ejection reflux, and she was just beautiful. And we didn't know we didn't have an ultrasound in that pregnancy. I said, I didn't know if it was a girl, and it's just a girl, and these beautiful lips and these beautiful eyes, and it was just it was actually a beautiful moment, but followed by just deep sadness, you know, that, in my opinion, really affected our bonding a lot. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And the pitocin, you know. And thank God she wasn't taken away from me.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Thank God they did respect some some slight delayed cord cutting. It wasn't, like, as long as I probably really would have liked. It was definitely, like, five minutes, you know. But then they're, like, pulling on the cord to get my placenta out.
Speaker 1
Of course. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I'm like, okay. I don't know. It was all just happening, you know? And and and, yeah, that was, like, the beginning of my motherhood journey. And they they came to my house a week after that, and they they actually apologized, and they cut their feet in half for me because we were pissed. Like, after I had a little bit of time to process it all, I'm like, why did this happen? And why did that happen? And why didn't we? And why and so I had all these questions for them and they were kind, you know, and they admitted, like, they were scared and, you know, it's all about whatever training that they've had. Right? But They
Speaker 1
should be doing home births. Those were absolute wolves in sheep's clothing.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. So and, unfortunately, it's still light out there. Yeah. In the north of Sweden, they have got like, now there's, like, home birth midwives who don't work in a hospital. You know? But, yeah, it's it's it's crazy.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Wow. Okay. So
Speaker 2
So That spiraled me into a lot of deep deep deep deep deep shadow work, all about my self worth, really. And I think at the end of the day, what it did is that it made me understand, like, nothing external can take away my worth. You know? Nothing that I did or didn't do, because it it was, like, a huge sort of I think for me too, it was, like, oh, all those people that were, like, not didn't have my back about me home birthing were, like, see, I told you it was gonna be day. I you know what I mean? I felt that energy. And I think for me, also, one of the saddest things was that when I tried to express how bummed out I was, they're like, oh, but your baby's healthy. That's the only thing that matters. You know that whole
Speaker 1
You don't you don't matter.
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Speaker 1
You don't matter. Your feelings don't matter. You have a live baby. And also, who's to say healthy? Like, this concept of your baby's healthy is is so, obviously, it's silencing, but it's also not necessarily correct. Like, what is healthy? Right. You know, I mean, alive
Speaker 2
fine. Right? Yeah. Alive. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Speaker 1
We can say we can see that, but, you know, healthy? I mean, I'm sure your baby was healthy, but you know what I mean. Like Yeah.
Speaker 2
There's a lot of assumptions made. Yeah. They mean to say alive. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1
It's so, so painful.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. It really was incredibly deeply painful. I processed her birth for a solid two years, I would say
Speaker 1
I'm sure.
Speaker 2
Of grief. You know? And it ultimately led me to study birth and to become a doula, and I think becoming a doula really helped heal part of me. And because, also, I think when I studied to be a doula, I was like, oh, this system is so fucked up. Like, I didn't realize that. You know? I definitely came in very naive, and so it kinda took off those, you know, blinders Mhmm. And which helped me to heal. Yeah. Because then I realized, oh, I was just working within a system that's broken. I do wanna mention one quick detail that I forgot just because you're gonna get a total kick out of this. You're gonna be appalled. During my pregnancy, in order to be able to hire those midwives to come to my home, I had to go to the hospital and speak to a head OBGYN male and, quote, prove my case of being able to birth at home because I was a first time mother.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. You needed permission from the white man. Exactly. I mean, duh.
Speaker 2
Look at
Speaker 1
our life. You realize that we we weren't even allowed to get our own credit cards without our husband's permission until the beginning of our lifetime in the eighties? Like, of course you needed a a male per you know, a male's permission to, do something against the grain. And Yeah. Also, of course, that permission was fakely given and you wound up at his institution anyway. I I I You know? I mean, it's all just such bullshit. I know. Okay. So then let's let's get into the juicy stuff. Let's get
Speaker 2
into the
Speaker 1
epic beautiful free birth that is about to come. So then we get into there's this ten year gap between your daughter and your son. So briefly kind of fill in that ten years for us, for what's relevant to get us into this next pregnancy. You're doing some birth work, you're kind of, grieving and hashing out your birth, coming to a better understanding of what happened, and and take us kind of through that decade.
Speaker 2
So I'm, like, just slowly exploring the doula work. I'm diving very deep into my womb, I would say, to my innate power, my wisdom as a woman. I'm becoming a woman, I think, over those years, really. Like, moving from the maiden to mother. Right? Then took me a long time, I think, with my daughter to really move from the maiden to mother, because it was such an I was so young and I didn't feel fully prepared and then the whole shock of, like, everything that happened during the birth. But it was this ten year period of, like, deep deep exploration, traveling around the world, understanding that there's just different ways to live life. Right? My You and your partners. My partner and I eventually split. We're amazing friends now. Like, it was, you know, we have a beautiful relationship, but it was time to part ways. Can't really get into that old story, but, yeah, that we'll just say that. Eventually, I meet my now current husband, as I'm traveling through Mexico, with my four and a half year old daughter. And we start a life together, and it was so crazy, Emily. As soon as I met him, I heard this voice that said, this is your spiritual partner and the father of your next child. And I was like, woah. Woah. Woah. Wait. What? Because I didn't I mean, I actually didn't feel ready for that yet. I was just like, okay. I'm loving life at that point and just being really free and backpacking and, you know, finally really, like, I think feeling like the strong woman that I am. You know? And so I was a little bit like, oh, really? Am I gonna get in a relationship with this guy? But it was just the guidance was so crystal clear. And then shortly after that, I think he began to realize, like, okay. I'm supposed to be with this woman too. But he tells me very clearly and very seriously one night, just so you know, I'm never having kids. You're like, great.
Speaker 1
Never come inside me. That's how that will happen.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right? And I'm like, okay. Okay, babe. That's fine. And, you know, I I tried to believe him, but I had this I would you know, those oracle card decks that you can, like, consult when you're wanting a question? I had this one that was made of fairies that my daughter and I would share. And I'm like, okay. What's up with this guy? And so I pull a card, and I get the card son, s o n. Woah. Little boy. You're this card means that you're gonna have a little boy or that someone you know is or some it was about a little boy. Right? And I'm like, what? Card doesn't make any sense for this guy. What is what was that about? Okay. Shuffle, like, redo, same card. I'm like, okay. This is weird. I'm just gonna let this go for a while. And then, like, two weeks after, I'm like, I I'm gonna just ask that card deck again because I got that same card. I got the same damn card.
Speaker 1
Wow.
Speaker 2
So I'm like, wow. It's so clear that there's this baby boy, like, hovering around me, and that's when my spirit baby began to make himself known to me. And I just knew, like, in the bottom of my heart, one day this guy is gonna be the father of this boy, and he just doesn't know it yet. And I'm gonna be okay with him not wanting kids, You know? Like, I never wanted to pressure him. Frankly, I wasn't like, oh, I have to have another kid either. I just felt that boy's energy after some time hovering over me, and it was just this beautiful spirit. You know? So the years go on, and then, like, I start to kinda talk about this spirit baby. I'm like, okay. So there's this baby who wants in, and and and my partner was, like, beginning to slowly kind of open up to the idea of, potentially being a dad. I mean, he had already become an amazing stepfather to my daughter. You know? Say that. Yeah. Like, amazing too. Not just, like, oh, distant kind of a dad. No. But,
Speaker 1
like, loving it.
Speaker 2
Just loving, super involved, and just I'm like, you're a dad. You know? And then it was it was a while. Like, he had to really work through some major fears around becoming a father. And, you know, then, eventually, we were like, okay. Let's open the portal. I had this really powerful experience during, a ceremony where the virgin of conception came to me.
Speaker 1
And she No big deal.
Speaker 2
No big deal. Yeah. Like, full on, just super clear, she's here with me. She takes out a star from her chest. She opens up her chest, takes out a star, places it inside of my womb. Woah. Yeah. I watch my baby grow from that star. I watch him being born. I, like, pick him up to me. I watch him change through all his phases because I stay the same, but go from a baby to a man. Right? And I'm just like, holy shit. This is so powerful. And after that meditation and that ceremony, I I asked my husband, so, like, did you have any intention for the day? And he said, yeah. My intention was to make contact with our baby. And I was like, well, I received him. Like and that for me was my spiritual conception of my child. Totally. And so then it was like, okay. It's on. Like, when is he coming down physically? Right? And still my husband, he's like, not quite yet. Not quite yet. Not quite yet. Right? And I'm just, like, getting more and more fertile and, like, my womb is just, like, aching. You know? It's just crazy feeling. Right? When you have that deep connection. At one point, I was, like, sitting at my table doing something very mundane. Like, I was not in a meditation or anything. I was writing something for work maybe, and I get, like, blasted with this crazy energy, and it was my son again. And then he tells me his name. My name is Elijah. Like, here's what it means. It's basically, you break it down. It means, my God is I am. Like, it's all about this I am presence. I start channeling this written piece from him, and it's all about this divine I am I am. And I'm like, Brandon. Like, he came to me again. Like, it's it's time, you know, and I was so just ready. Finally, we start to try to conceive, and I was so sure that this baby was gonna come on that first time. Right? And he didn't, and I was devastated. I was like, what the hell? Like, I've been talking for years, you know. And so then it starts this whole other process of deep surrender. Conscious conception is crazy, you know. It's like it really puts you it tests you as well Because you have to let go. Like, once you open that portal, you're just like Right.
Speaker 1
Conception doesn't mean, oh, I'm gonna be pregnant now.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly.
Speaker 1
It means, oh, fuck. I'm not pregnant yet, and I wanna be,
Speaker 2
and so here's the work. Exactly. Yeah. So for those of you out there who might be going through that process, like, I see you and I feel you because it was there was some hard moments. How long? I eventually it's really, it was only five cycles. Mhmm. It's not that long. But there was a break in between because he had traveled and so we were away from each other. So I would say the whole whole process was probably a year. And I I worked with flower essences to really help me, like, ground into that and clear those emotions of, like, not being able to surrender, and that really, really helped me. So I just mentioned that as a little tip. And then eventually, I was pregnant, and I knew it. I just knew it. Like, we had done a meditation and I was like, I'm pregnant. And, like, he he was just like, what? And I'm like, yeah. Yeah. No. I'm I'm pregnant. And he's like, oh, I don't know. You know, he's like still kind of not ready. Right? And I'm like, I wanna take a test. And I and I look back, I'm like, why did you have to take a test really? But it was I was just so damn excited. Like, I just felt like, that's funny. So I run to the store right next door and I take a test. I'm like, I knew it, you know, and and that began our journey. We were on the coast of Mexico at that point, and then we moved to the the mountains, the desert, three months after I became pregnant, so, like, just after my first trimester. And then I began began to really think, like, what do I want for this birth? And it was so weird, Emily. I don't know why, like, free birth wasn't, like, the first thing that I thought of. The only thing I could think of was how I would feel in my birth, and then I was like, okay. Well, like, am I gonna, like, try to meet midwives around here? And then I was like, wait a second. Yeah. Wait. No. I totally don't have to hire a midwife. I don't know why it wasn't, like, immediate, especially given my past experience, especially given all, like, the experience as a doula. Definitely by hand like, by by far, hands down, the the most peaceful birth I had ever been to was an accidental free birth. Breach, nonetheless. You know what I mean? And so I'm like, duh, Nancy. Like, you're not gonna hire a midwife. I'm like, okay. So how's this gonna go down? I had heard that it could be really crazy to try to free birth here
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And then try to get your baby's passport and all that stuff. So I was like, okay. I'm not up for a super stressful postpartum. I knew this time around too, I wanted to do some really beautiful traditional postpartum stuff of, like, staying in for the forty days and just being really mindful. So I did not wanna bring any extra stress of, like, trying to prove to somebody that this was my baby. So I start to do the rounds and try and get to know the midwives around here, and I'm just super transparent with them. And I'm like, alright. Here's the deal. Like, I don't really want you to come to my birthday. I do want you to help me with some paperwork though. And so that began that that was and ultimately, what I ended up doing was hiring someone who was okay with it. She did trust my, you know, ability to birth without her. And and, you know, there were some things that I I did, maybe I didn't have to do. I felt like I had to do because I knew the process after speaking to a lot of people, especially as being, like, an ex pat in Mexico, trying to get my baby his US passport would have been really hard if I had no prenatal records.
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's what Nicole said in her episode.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. And so I was like, well, shit. I'm not getting a little. Exactly. So I'm like, I'm not getting an ultrasound. I feel really solid about that. What am I willing to do? Yeah. You know, to prove prove it? Okay. Well, really pay off. Exactly. So I'm like, I'm willing to go to a couple of of visits if they use the fetoscope and not the doppler. And I'm willing to get my blood work taken so that an actual lab can, you know, you have that, like, seal of the I don't know. Some official thing. Right? And so that's where I made my compromise, but I really did not like those visits. Of course. And actually, my midwife was super duper sweet, but I'm just like, why are you here? Like, this is not what I need. I need I needed emotional support and spiritual support. Like, physically speaking, I was taking care of myself by going to, acupuncture a couple of times a week and by going to some a chiropractor every once in a while and by getting a massage. Like, that is what felt like self care and prenatal care for me. You know? Going to the checkups was like, here's how much you weigh, here's your fundal height, like, I don't know. It just felt It's
Speaker 1
a trade off.
Speaker 2
Like, of course,
Speaker 1
you didn't wanna do it, but you were playing the game to get the thing you ultimately did want, which was an American passport.
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Speaker 1
And not and not having a headache. So you were doing what you needed to do to set yourself up, like you said, for for more ease postpartum. So Yeah. I mean, I think that's relevant
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. Or fair or whatever. So I continued like that in my pregnancy. And, also, something else I did was I actually made I made backup plans, and I made peace with them. Or not maybe I didn't make peace with them. Okay. Let me back up.
Speaker 1
I liked the idea of making peace
Speaker 2
with them. Exactly. No. Totally. But what I felt like in my first birth, I never ever ever imagined that I would ever birth outside of my home, and it was a massive shock to have ended up in the hospital. So I was like, okay. This time around, I'm actually gonna see. Okay. Who would be my plan b? Well, plan b would actually be to call the midwife. Okay. Who's what's plan c if I had to go into the hospital for something? It would be this total asshole doctor that I ended up going to meet. It was, like, part of me facing my fears, ultimately. Oh my god. Was he an asshole? I'm like, I can't even tell you. And everybody was like, oh, this is the most alternative OB GYN that we have in this town. My my husband was like, what the fuck was that? When we left, he was just like, for real? I'm like, oh, babe, like, this is this is this is totally, like, how it goes in the birth world. He was just like, are you kidding me? So anyway, this guy was just so not alternative, and and it was great though, because, like, I had him in my head as, like, if that's plan c, I'm so not going to plan c ever. You know? And, for me, preparing for a free birth was a mix of, deep, deep, deep spiritual surrender, like, listening to the guidance of my spirit baby and my higher self and really feeling like this is what was best for us and educating myself about what truly is the thing that I would feel uncomfortable with, you know, if there were something happen. For me, my ultimate fear was my baby coming out and not breathing somehow. And so I just educated myself on that. I ended up doing a course with Karen Strange. It was an online course. And I was like, okay. I'm gonna just be prepared to feel like I can let that go. You know? Like, I can know how to resuscitate if I want. And that just totally let my mind go. After that, I was like, okay. This is fine. I'm in this. This is totally nothing's gonna happen. I did some rituals around, like, writing down some of my worries and then, like, burning them. And then I had this, like, little container on my altar that ultimately became my birth altar of, like, putting in what I did want to happen, like, you know, the positive affirmations of it, and I just put them there kind of as prayers. Mhmm. I'm, like, I'm letting this go, and I'm handing it over to the divine. You know? And then I just began to just fully let go of, like, plan b, plan c, and all that shit in the last trimester, and it was just, like, me and my baby, and this is what we're doing. I ended up, having my a good friend who also is a doula who I worked with on the coast. We did a few things together, birth and a little course together, and I was just like, I really want a feminine presence there of someone who's already given birth to She had an amazing free birth. Her baby was breech, and this was some years ago, and nobody would support her. So she was like, fuck it. I'm gonna do it on my own. And so I was like, okay. She's so on board with free birth. You know? I just felt really, really comfortable with my birth team. So flash forward to I'm in labor. It was funny because I had, like, sort of thought I was in labor a few times and then stopped, and it would always come in at night at, like, two or three in the morning. I'm like, oh, maybe this is it, and then it would just I would eventually fall asleep, so it wasn't in it. Right? That had happened for probably three or four days, and I think I was actually already beginning to open.
Speaker 1
Sure.
Speaker 2
And then I remember, like, the night before I I went into, quote, real life or whatever you wanna call it, I was so grumpy. And I was like, I'm so done being pregnant, but I was only thirty nine weeks pregnant. And I'm like, dude, Nancy, you can't I mean, you're always telling other women to, like, relax even at forty two weeks. Why are you, like, suddenly so done with being pregnant? But I think it was actually because I was. I was almost done with You're actually done being pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. And I somehow knew it. Right? And And
Speaker 1
it's so common for women to get really cranky right before
Speaker 2
right before the process. Totally. And, and I had gone to my friend's house who had just moved into this new house that they had built, and it was sort of supposed to be the celebratory thing, and they had some champagne. And I was just, like, grumping on the couch, you know, like, I'm sorry, guys. Guys could see your face
Speaker 1
right now.
Speaker 2
Like, negative Nancy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's my alter ego for sure. And she, my friend, was so funny. She's like, I just so you know, like, I had a dream about you, and you gave birth, and you were standing up, and it was eleven fifteen in the morning. And I was like, okay. Well, maybe that'll be tomorrow. You know? But I was just and they were like, it's fine. Just have a little bit of champagne. You know? You'll probably go into labor after that. So I had a little bit of champagne, and, and we went home and whatever. And then the next morning, my water broke, And it was seven thirty ish, and it was so cool because my water didn't break my last birth. It got broke. And and so I had never felt that, and I was like, oh, and it was funny because I wasn't I was actually peeing on the toilet and then my water broke and I'm like, oh, woah. Like, either I really lost control of my pelvic floor or like How do you know what I mean? Just collapsed. Yeah. Exactly. I was like, oh, shit. That's not good. But then it became clear, like, no. That's not pee. And I turned to my daughter who was brushing her teeth getting ready for bed. I'm like, I think my water just broke. And she's like, oh. And she was so adamant about being at the earth. She's like, if you don't take me out of school when you go into labor, like, I'm never But
Speaker 1
so it broke the night before?
Speaker 2
In the morning. I had woken up.
Speaker 1
So she's brushing your teeth getting ready to go to school?
Speaker 2
Yes.
Speaker 1
Gotcha. Okay.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so then and then she's like, well, what should I do? Should I still go to school? And I said, yeah. It can be, like, so long before I actually go into labor. And I had heard stories and, like, after being in in your group, and, like, hearing all these stories, this is not something I came across as a doula because all the births were so managed. Right? I didn't realize, like, oh, sometimes people their water breaks and people go into labor, like, four or five days later.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
You know? And so I was fully for me, that was not a fear. Like, I was like, whatever. I it could be, like, a few days from now. I'm not I don't know, Violet. You know? I was like, and I don't want you to I don't want you or Brandon to be, like, staring at me like, okay. So is anything happening yet? Is anything happening yet? So I'm like, just go to school. Let's just pretend like it's a normal day. And so I go downstairs and I'm, like, leaking and I'm, like, what do I do with this? And so I'm, like, putting a pad thing on and, like, I'm like, okay, I gotta get my snacks ready, my rehydration drink, like, I had all these plans. Right? I had this very particular incense that I wanted to light that was supposed to be, like, for a good birth that somebody had gifted me when I was in Brazil. That's sweet. And before they, they were like, I know you have a baby coming eventually. Like, they just felt it and they're like, this for you, you know. So there were these plans that I had, and then I go to Brandon and and I'm like, my water broke. And he's just like, okay. Well, what does that mean? And, should I, and I'm like, no. Let's just, like, pretend like it's a normal day. And he's like, okay. Well, I have one work call at eight thirty and then another work call at ten thirty. Like, he had, like, three calls planned for that day. He worked from home. And I'm like, just go go go on. You know? My friend who was gonna be my doula, she actually was planning on coming to my house around ten to do a cranial sacral treatment on me. Yeah. She's amazing, and, I just love those. And so I call her and I'm like, well, my water broke and but let's just keep the plan for you to give me that treatment. And I think she somehow knew that it was coming closer than I thought and she's like, I think I'm gonna eat breakfast and maybe I should head over, like, a little bit before ten. I'm like, well, let's just be in touch. Like, I'll let you know. And then I, you know, shower and do all these things, and I go upstairs, and I'm just, like, being with myself. And suddenly, labor's just gone. And it's nine nine twenty. You know? And I'm like, oh, woah. It's on and it's strong. Like and I called the bus driver of my daughter's school. I'm like, sorry, but you kinda need to turn right back around. Because I felt like it might be really soon, you know, because it was so the contractions were coming, like honestly, it felt like they were just a minute apart.
Speaker 1
I love that you had the bus driver's number.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that they could turn around.
Speaker 2
No. They were all on board with the plan.
Speaker 1
Oh, it's so cute.
Speaker 2
Feel like I'm birthing at home, you know. I need
Speaker 1
my girl there.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so they're like, no problem. And they're like, well, she's in her class. Like, they're singing this song right now that, like, should we interrupt? I'm like, no. You need to actually interrupt and bring her back because she would kill me if she'd been driving her, you know? So, like, okay. She's on the way. I run downstairs. My husband's in a call with, like, a coaching call with this guy and I'm just, like, wrap it up. Like, I'm motioning to him, you know? And he's, like, okay. And he's trying to tell this dude, my wife's in labor, and the dude's just like, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And, you know, wrap it up. And so I'm, like, whatever. I can birth on my own, you know? I'm like, these people know that it's on now. I text my doula, like, it's on. Just come when you can. I go upstairs. I had hung this, like, you know the silks that you perform on? You also did this for your birth. Right? Those silky things that the circus performers use. My daughter actually is in circus, so I hung a silk up from these beams that I have. I'm living in this kind of warehouse space temporarily, so it's perfect. And I could put all my weight on that and I hung it right in front of my birth altar, and I'm hanging on that and just, like, swirling my hips every time the the wave comes. And I'm just crying, like, by this beautiful tears of, like, openness and joy and, like, sweetness of just feeling my newborn so close and, like, just just kind of disbelief that I'm finally here after all these years of having this spirit baby with me. Right?
Speaker 1
No. I felt the exact same way.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I still don't even know if it's actually the boy, Elijah. Right? Because I didn't do any ultrasounds, but I'm just having this feeling that it is him. Right? And it's it was just a really beautiful moment. I had a birth playlist on, that I just loved. I worked on it for a long time. It was, like, ten hours of music. I was fully prepared to have a long birth, put it on repeat if I needed to. Well, that was not the case. My birth was extremely fast, but I'm working with it. I'm rolling my hips. I'm kind of using my sounds a lot as well. And then suddenly, everybody comes into my space all at once. They all sort of arrive at the same time, which is probably around an hour and fifteen minutes before the baby was actually born. It was interesting because although I deeply love all three of those people and I am glad they were there, it did change the energy for me, you know. And I was like, oh, okay. Like, there people are looking at me, you know. And I'm like, oh, weird. It was different because it almost like the sensations became a little bit painful after that instead of just pleasurable. And I had to I had to work for a few contractions to open back up to not let them be, like disruptive. Yeah. And they were. I mean, they weren't doing anything. Just the act of being Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1
And and they do bring their own energy. It does it does change it. It's side note. When when doulas and and whatever women say that they attend free births and that they, you know, don't change the space and that it's still a free birth, I'm like, you're so wrong. Yeah. To not know that you change the space when you enter a birthing room is is incorrect. You know, it's it's actually potentially dangerous. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. And I did learn a lot from that too as a doula, just reminding myself of that. But they were great. You know, he was doing the incense for me, my husband. My daughter had prepared this beautiful snack plate and Oh my god. And watermelon and these screwy lina cookies and
Speaker 1
Oh my god.
Speaker 2
And my friend who is a professional photographer let us borrow her camera, and my daughter took on the role of photographer. I knew I really wanted pictures, and she did an amazing job, and I didn't feel her as a distraction with that. So I'm still kinda doing what I'm doing at my birth altar, and then my sound start to get, like, crazy primal in my mouth. Like, there's some pictures of me. My jaw is just, like, so wide open. You know? And I knew I was gonna I had a feeling in my pregnancy. I was gonna work with sounds a lot. I work as a sound healer as well, so it was, like, just so innate in me to use my voice. And that was super helpful. And then suddenly, I'm like, I need to take a poop. And, you know, it's like, why didn't I know that that was the baby? I mean, I know that. When women say that, they're like, like, often it's because you're in like a alternate reality. I know. I know. I know. And so I'm like, I gotta poop you guys. So I go poop and then I go back out and then I gotta go poop again. And it just goes on like this. Right? And I'm like, maybe, yeah, maybe we should fill up the pool because I sort of had this idea that I was gonna birth in water. Although, I wasn't attached to it. I was like, it can be there if I want it. And the I think I was moving I was moving so rapidly through the phases of labor that I didn't really recognize them. Mhmm. And but I think now looking back on it, I think I was in transition when I went to the bathroom the last time. And I and I and I did poop, like, a little bit each time, but it really was the baby's head coming down that was, you know, making that happen. And Brandon's like, you need to wash your hands. And I'm, like, hanging over the sink, like, I don't know I don't know if I could wash my hands. Like, it was, like, so dramatic.
Speaker 1
Oh my god. I could totally see that. That's so funny.
Speaker 2
And he's just like, okay. I'll help you. And then I'm like, I need to get in the pool. So I go get in the pool and, which was just this little kiddie pool, you know. And it wasn't even, like, halfway filled up at that point. But I did have, you know you know, the, quote, birth pause where you're, like, already open, but you're you're not quite pushing. I think I had that for, like, three minutes, maybe. And so I'm laying on my side because there's a little video of it, and they're pouring the water on my belly, and it just felt so good with a little glass. And that at that point, I was just, like, peace. You know? And then and then he starts to really come down, and, man, was it so different than with my first. I feel like with Violet, it was like this slow, slow, slow pushing and then the fetal, you know, reflex and it there actually wasn't pain in the pushing for me with her. It was the most pleasurable part, really. But for him, holy crap. It felt like this freight train moving through me, and it really caught me off guard. I think it was the only time where I lost my center, and I just said out loud, like, what do I do? And and and my friend, my doula, was like, whatever you feel. And I was like, oh, yeah. Okay. And so, like, I stand up outside of the water, which is so funny. And, only thing I can say on repeat is, oh my goddess, Please help me. Oh my god. Please help me. I was literally praying to the goddess. That's the only thing I could do in the moment because the sensations were so incredibly intense. And I did have that ring of fire as well, which I didn't experience with Violet. And I I felt like my ass was going to break. I think and I think there was some fear that came up for me there. Of course. Around tearing, and I was like, I don't wanna tear, like, all the way to my butt, like, oh my god. And why can't he just come a little slower? Like, it was just so fast. And at that point, my husband intuitively just started to hold because the head was already starting to come out and just started to hold there. And he started to tell me, just work with the power. Like, this is power coming through you. Just work with it. Nice. And it's so interesting. And I say this for anyone listening who is a birth worker as well. I feel like you you think you're gonna remember it all when when you're in labor, like, as a birth worker of, like, it's just the power coming through. You can work with it, you know, like, whatever things you've told to other women as well. But, no, you're just gone. You're just it's just happening to you, and you're this portal and suddenly and it's great because your mind lets go. Mhmm. And it's amazing, Emily, because in this moment of this ten hour playlist, my own hypnosis recording comes on that I made. Yeah. Because I I have, like, a set of nine hypnosis, and I put a couple of them on my playlist. But, like, what are the chances of it coming in that moment? So he was born to, like, my voice. That's cute. Yeah. And the whole thing of that I was saying to myself was surrender, like, oh, you know, all the things I kinda needed to hear. And then after kinda screaming to the goddess, he just eventually shot out. It was so incredibly fast. And I I mentioned earlier that one of my fears was that he wouldn't he would come out and not be breathing well, and when he was screaming, it was like, woah. Hi. You're welcome. Okay. Wow. You're really here. You know? And I just, like, grabbed him and I was like, I love you. I love you. I love you. And petting his head and then I oh, and it was really cool because actually my husband and I caught him together. And we didn't really have a plan for that. I just told him How could you? Exactly. Yeah. But, like, we had talked about it in the pregnancy of, like, maybe you can catch him or maybe I will. It's just gotta flow. You know? But he sort of had the head, like, as it was coming out, and then I grabbed the body. And and that felt really, really special to us, I think. And then, yeah, he was he was there with me, and and he was screaming, and then I felt his little balls. I was like, it's a boy. You know? It's Elijah. It's my spirit baby. And, eventually, we moved to the to the in front of the birth altar, and we laid there all as a family. My Julie got some awesome pictures of us, and then I felt the placenta coming pretty quickly. I think it was within twenty minutes. And I just sat up and, like, held him in one arm and was, like, catching my placenta with the other hand right in front of my birth altar. And it was a really special moment. I I put my hand on my placenta, and I just felt this energy coursing through me. You know? And I just felt so much gratitude. And then, eventually, we moved all of us to the bed with the placenta, and we did a, like, partial I I wouldn't call it really a lotus birth, but, like, it was four hours before we we cut the cord, and we actually did the cord burning ceremony Nice. Which was super sweet. And we all took turns holding the candle underneath, the cord, and that took probably about twenty minutes to separate. And that felt really good for us. Mhmm. I didn't feel drawn to doing, like, a full lotus burt. I really felt like the cord was, like, in the way, and it was, like, bothering the baby. Yeah. It was kinda sticky and cold, and and yeah. I don't know. It just felt really, really perfect what we did. That was, I guess, you could say the end of that birth story. And then I I did the traditional forty day postpartum, we call it in Spanish. And
Speaker 1
Did was he born at eleven fifteen?
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah. I mentioned that because he was born at eleven eighteen, and I was standing up.
Speaker 1
That's awesome.
Speaker 2
Oh, and at one point, I remember during this maybe was also close to, like, transition period. I remember looking at the clock and it was eleven. And I was like, okay. If my friend is right Yeah. I got fifty more minutes. I kinda hope she's right. That's right. Because, like, even though it was going so fast, it was feeling intense. You know? So, yeah, that was that was it. I had a super sweet, like, forty day postpartum.
Speaker 1
And did you do the closing of the bones?
Speaker 2
I did. And, actually, one of the reasons I really wanted, my friend and my doula there is because she has an incredible knowledge of traditional postpartum, things that they do here in Mexico, and she just has a really beautiful energy. And so she she did that with me. She did a closing of the bones and, Multiple times or just once? It was only once, actually, and I'm thinking of having another one. Yeah. The like, there's, like, these phases. Right?
Speaker 1
Exactly. I learned from Nioli who is, like, kind of famous for teaching this, I guess. Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And she
Speaker 1
lives in Brazil now, but she's from Mexico.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And
Speaker 1
I believe, if I'm correct, that in in our workshop, she said, that it could be done multiple times at the different stages of postpartum, which feels really good. Right? Because you, like, digest it at different
Speaker 2
points. Absolutely.
Speaker 1
Who you are closing up at three days or two weeks to who you are at three months is
Speaker 2
Exactly.
Speaker 1
Be different. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yep. For sure. For anyone listening, god, that rest was just absolutely incredible and feels so essential in my opinion. Like and I really was so thankful that I had it so dialed in. I didn't really talk about that, but, like, during my pregnancy, I worked a lot on the postpartum stuff. You know? I had arranged a food train, meal train, people coming to bring me food for the first six weeks. I had, help in the house with cleaning. You know? I don't know. I had, like, a big thermos to always have a nourishing beverage by my, you know, table. Like, just super simple things like that. I felt really that felt incredibly, empowering for me to prepare all of that for myself. It was also one of those things where it's like, okay. Birth is birth and it's totally unpredictable, but postpartum, in some ways, is unpredictable too. But, like, I can really plan for what I want and how I want it.
Speaker 1
There's some things we can do. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that felt really powerful to me Yeah. And important. And I'm incredibly grateful that I did that because six months postpartum now, I really have a lot of energy considering I barely fucking sleep still. Yeah. But I'm amazed, and I really do think that it's because I took such good care of myself. I worked with my placenta too. I made all the things that you could make from your placenta, capsules and tinctures. I buried part of it. I did a homeopathy. You know, I really, like, went the at length to, you know, care for myself in that way, and and I don't regret it at all. That's beautiful. Guess I could share that. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's beautiful. Well, thank you.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 1
Pretty awesome. Yeah. Really special story. And then, you know, for anyone listening, we're gonna have Nancy back on another time to talk about postpartum in more depth, because you have quite the story. But being your own authority doesn't end with birth. Yeah. And that you had quite the journey of relearning that or learning it to a new level in the six months that followed your son's birth. So that deserves its own episode because it's super important and very relatable. And and and, you know, we we do, we cover birth stories on this podcast. We don't cover postpartum journeys enough, and yours is really one I would like to record and and share, so more to come.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Awesome.
Speaker 1
Thank you, girlfriend.
Speaker 2
So much.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the Free Birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
