Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emily
Speaker 1
Saldea. Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. Brandy impressed me with her self awareness, her humility, and her connection to the truth. After a typical industrialized birth, Brandy goes on to have a surprise breech birth in the water at home, then has another child at home midwife attended. And it's with Brandy's fourth daughter that she decides to free birth in the very bus her family lives in. Brandy shares her honest journey and her many lessons in this week's episode.
Speaker 2
What I love about my birth stories as a collective is that, they were kind of I've had four births together, and so they were kind of a stepping stone to where I finally was able to, like, harness that complete autonomy, with my free birth. And I've had a wide wide variety of births, and so I think it's really great that I have those, even though there's a lot of, like, pain associated with my first birth. I feel I can be a lot more empathetic to the to the women that I'm able to talk to, like the women who will come with come to me for advice or just telling their stories. I feel like I can really, connect with them because I've I've felt it. So Yeah. It's really cool. But at the same time, you know, you you think about the trauma that you went through with, you know, whatever your experience with my experience, it was with my first. And it's like, damn. I wish I would have known.
Speaker 3
Of course.
Speaker 2
I wish I would have known, but at the same time, it's it's really important that I am able to, just appreciate my story, appreciate where I was as a human and as a woman whenever I gave birth to to my previous children then. So
Speaker 3
Yeah. So
Speaker 2
I was nineteen whenever I got pregnant with my first baby, and I was in a relationship where we had known each other for four months. And we we got pregnant. And so, what do you do when you get pregnant? Especially, like, we had Myspace. It's social media wasn't a thing really back then, and so I wasn't exposed to, options. Mhmm. You weren't you know, what do you do? You go to the you go to the doctors. So I remember, I had my my pap smear scheduled with my, my general practitioner, and she gave me my pap smear. And she was like, you know you're pregnant. Right? And I was like, yeah. I know I'm pregnant. And she was like, okay. Cool. So I'm gonna refer you to this midwife. And I was like, what's a midwife? And she's like, it's, you know, it's a birthing it's a birthing attendant or whatever. She'll she's kind of like an OB, but she doesn't she doesn't do the surgery side of things. She works out of this OB's office. I'll refer you to her. And I was like, okay. Whatever. Sure. And so I remember, waiting for my first appointment to meet this OB. I mean, this midwife, and this general practitioner calls me, and she was like, hey. Not to alarm you, but we found some precancerous cells on your cervix, which means that you could possibly lose the baby, and I would consider you high risk. So I'm gonna refer you to the OB within that office instead of the midwife. And, I just remember kind of, like, freaking out, because I didn't know what to expect. Like, what? Now I have to go to this OB? So then we we were referred to that OB, and, my partner at the time and I were sitting down at her desk, I remember, and she was sitting across from us, you know, like this, asking us questions and interviewing us to be her clients almost, you know. And I remember her going, so what is your, what is your what is your birth look like? What does the birth look like to you? And I was like, I don't know. Isn't that your job? Like, why just come in and have a baby? And she's like, do you wanna have a medicated birth? And I was like, yeah. What else is there? Why wouldn't I wanna have a medicated birth? And she's like, okay. And that was that. And looking back, I'm like, dang it. Like, that was a chance. That was a chance for me to be like, no. I I don't want a a medicated birth. I don't want an epidural, but I had no idea. So
Speaker 3
know? Yeah.
Speaker 2
I had no idea. But what's funny is later on in my pregnancy, because I was a part of, you know, those, like, due date groups that you that you're a part of whenever some people are a part of. I was a part of a due date group, and I remember some of the women having home births. And I was like, what is this? Oh my gosh. Wow. I wish I could do that. I wish I could I wish I could have a home birth. That's just not possible for me. Right? And, I remember coming to my partner and going, these women are having birth. Like, they're giving birth to their babies at home. We should look into that. He was like, mm-mm. No. That's not happening. We've you know, we're gonna go to the hospital. That's what you do. So, with her birth, I remember I woke up in labor. It was, like, really early labor, contractions every couple of minutes, whatever. And I called the hospital, and, they were like, okay. Yeah. Go ahead and come up. So I went to the went to the hospital, and and they monitor you before admitting me. And, gosh, I don't remember much about her birth, unfortunately, because it was like you you go in, they monitor you, they decide that you're not progressing fast enough, of course. So they immediately hook you up to give you Pitocin. And it's like they come they come at you with the medicine, and they tell you what they're gonna do. You know? Hey. This is what's happening. This is what I'm gonna do. And so
Speaker 3
If you're lucky, they'll say that.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Right. And and and if you're lucky, they they could absolutely just come and and give you medicine, which they probably did. You know, I probably just don't I don't remember much of that. I just remember going, okay. Do whatever. I'm sitting here laying down waiting to have this baby scared to death, not knowing what to expect. So, yeah, the the majority of her labor, which lasted, like, eighteen hours from beginning to end from at home to having her, was me sleeping. You know, I had an epidural, and I just slept and they would come in and wake me up and turn me over and tell me, you know, your baby's heart rate is starting to drop. I really need you to do this or do that. And so I did that. And, eventually, they kinda woke me up and said, okay. You're ten centimeters. It's time to push. I was like, okay. Cool. Let's do this. And I pushed for three hours. I remember in during about the second hour, the nurses and the and the my OB started kinda talking and saying, hey. You know, maybe you should get get a room prepped. We need to start talking about a c section. And, and I'm so proud of myself because I remember looking at my my OB and going, I don't care what it takes. I'm not gonna have a c section. C section is off the table. This is you know, c section is not gonna happen. She's like, okay. Let's just keep on pushing. And so, I I pushed, and they ended up having to use the forceps because the downward downward spiral of all of the interventions came to your daughter's heart rate is dropping. We need to get her out right now, or we're gonna have to have a c section. You don't wanna have a c section. Let's get these forceps and yank your your kid out. So, so they did that. And whenever they pulled her out, she had meconium, of course, and that gave them a reason to admit her into the NICU. So they put her on my chest and, I get her for about a minute, and then they take her away. And they clean her up and they take her to the NICU because, her APGAR isn't as high as they want it to be or whatever excuse, you know, for them to separate you from your baby. And they're cleaning up, and it takes them forever to get my placenta out. And she's using tools to pull my placenta out. And I had a couple of friends there who walked into the room to get their purse, and I remember them saying, when we walked in, there was blood everywhere. She had her hands in you. And I was like, okay. Is that normal? Like, why why? And so, all of that is finished. I'm ready to see my baby, and they tell me, okay. Stand up and let's go to the NICU. You have to walk to the NICU. And so I remember standing up and I blacked out, and I had to sit back down and take a couple of breaths. And I'm, of course, really shaky and, just drowsy and nauseated, and I I'm not in my right mind. And so they tell me that I can't go see her until I can walk to her. And it wasn't until the next morning that I was able to see her. What the fuck? The next morning.
Speaker 3
So Why would they not have wheeled you in a wheelchair?
Speaker 2
They didn't. They wouldn't. I had to walk to her.
Speaker 3
That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2
It doesn't make any sense to me now
Speaker 3
that I'm I am so sorry.
Speaker 2
So, of course, they're feeding her formula bottles whenever I get there, and she won't take the breasts. And so they give, a, the nipple shield, you know, to to nurse her. And she has bruises on her face, and she's connected to all of these wires.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. It was all so unnecessary.
Speaker 2
It was also unnecessary. And I held a lot of guilt about that for a long time because I thought if I what? If I wasn't there, none of this would have happened. But it happened. It happened.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I see women choose guilt over, what's the right word? Choosing guilt of themselves over placing appropriate blame and anger on the people who actually deserve it, you know, which are the people who, systematically sabotaged her entrance into the world, but were so programmed to take more responsibility than than is, even remotely appropriate. Right? Like, you you thought you were doing the right thing and you were being a good girl in our society to, like, go to the hospital and let the authorities have their way with your birth, never knowing in a million years that it was gonna look like that, you know. And I think and I think it's a good point because I think, you know, for anyone listening who feels guilt around something that they didn't know would happen, we actually really need to make an effort to release that and and shift into appropriate placed blame and anger because, you know, it's like it's like, you know, friends of mine who have been sexually assaulted, you know, at a at a bar or on a on a tender date, feeling guilty or mad at themselves because they put themselves in that situation. It's like, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. That's not your fucking fault. You know? It's you didn't know that that was going to happen, and we shouldn't be living having to live so defensively. Anyway, you know? Right. Of course, you felt guilt. I don't mean to invalidate that, but also, like, it's our own you know, we've got it, like, I think a part of our our part of our evolution, you know, as feminists is to stop taking on, the shit that we were victimized by, you know, and just be angry anyway.
Speaker 2
Yes. Right. Exactly. Oh, preach. So yeah. Thankfully, I don't feel guilty about that anymore. Yeah. Good. You know, a lot of a lot of work has been done. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And
Speaker 2
like I said, I'm able to be a lot more empathetic to the women who, who have had similar experiences in what they've been through. So, so she was released from the NICU four days later, which took fighting. Like, I could not get a pediatrician to release her. I remember asking for a good probably twenty four hours, when is the pediatrician gonna be here so that we can go fuck home? So And just
Speaker 3
for the presence of MEC?
Speaker 2
Yes. Well, that and yeah. So there was nothing else wrong with her. Her heart rate was fine. She was doing fine in the NICU, but a pediatrician had to release her. But there was no pediatrician present.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. It's such a scam.
Speaker 2
Oh my gosh. And, Emily, they send me home at two days, so I have to go home and then come back up to the hospital. Can't sleep with her. And, of course, they're feeding her formula bottles. Money, money, money, money, money, money. Oh, you have no idea. It I mean, I do. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 3
It is it is big business.
Speaker 2
We had great insurance, fantastic insurance, and it cost us four thousand dollars
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
To have her. As nineteen year old kids, you know, having, a baby, which god damn
Speaker 3
it. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2
Oh, you know? I I appreciate that I'm able to look back at it now and and I'm so proud of myself for what I've learned and how far I've come now.
Speaker 3
So Hell, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
So that was her first that's yeah.
Speaker 3
So that's your your welcome to motherhood in industrialized, yeah, culture.
Speaker 2
Right. So, yeah, I had I used a nipple shield with her to breastfeed her for four months. It took us four months to wean off of the nipple shield because she you know, of course, you know, they give her the formula formula bottle. She's used to that kind of nipple, and then she gets used to the nipple shield. It took a while to, to figure out breastfeeding with her. But, thankfully, she weaned herself at eighteen months, and and I was able to breastfeed her. And I really appreciated that time with her.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 2
So that we we ended up getting married whenever I was pregnant, Emily, because his dad said he does not want a bastard grandchild. So we get married, and that doesn't last long. We divorce. So that didn't last long. My next pregnancy happened, after the marriage of of after my second marriage, my my now partner, my husband. We get married. We are trying to have a baby. And how old is your daughter? My daughter is six when we have my second daughter. So there's six years in between these births. I immediately know that I do not wanna go back to the hospital, and I approach my husband about that and just tell him, like, look. We're gonna find a midwife. And he was like, I never thought that you would go to the hospital. That would that never crossed my mind. I'm like, yes. Okay. Thank you. So we find this really incredible midwife who, is close to us, and my pregnancy with her was so amazing, so beautiful. My midwife was great. She was fantastic. I remember asking her all of the appropriate questions, like, what happens if this baby is breech? You know, and my midwife was like, okay. What what happens if the baby's breech? You know? That's not a thing in my in my radar. Meaning she would be okay to support you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. She was okay to support me. I remember asking her what happens if I go over forty two weeks, and she was like, you know, we can always smudge the, you know, smudge the data a little bit. We don't have to go to the hospital for those things. So there were there were things that she said that really validated, my trust in her, and I appreciated that. So I'm thirty eight weeks pregnant, and I go into labor. And labor at this time is very consistent, hard to talk to contract hard to talk through contractions. So we think that I'm in labor and or we think that, you know, I'm in active labor. And, I'm doing this for two days, and she doesn't give me any kind of vaginal checks, because I didn't want any vaginal exams. And she respected my space, and she kinda just stayed back and let me do my thing. But on day two, in the evening, I was, like, in our pool because we we thought that it was kind of approaching time for me to, enter transition. And my my six year old daughter was at a neighbor's house, and she comes in with my with my neighbor's little girl, and she's, like, loud and rambunctious. And I remember I'm out of my like, I come out of my headspace. And I'm looking around, and at that time, like, the stove the stove beeps, and so my husband leaves my my side to go deal with, like, the food and activities, just kinda everybody's flurrying around me. And my contractions stop, and I'm just sitting there in the pool. And my midwife was like, Kim, can I check you? Would it be okay if I checked you? And I was like, actually, yeah. I want you to go ahead and check me. And so she checks me and I'm like a two or a three, and I've been doing this for two days. And I just cried, and I was like, why is this happening? And she's like, you know, sweetheart, it's just happening. Your body's doing what it needs to do. You're not in labor exactly right now. So, I'm I'm gonna go home. Call me if you need me. I think you should relax and, just enjoy this time with your family and let your body do what it's doing. And I was like, okay. So, that's at thirty eight weeks pregnant, I go and visit my chiropractors, and I'm getting acupuncture. And I'm so in my head space to try to get this thing going that it's just stressing me out. And finally, my husband's like, let the shit go. Like, it's gonna happen when it happens. And so, at forty weeks and four days, finally, it's Mother's Day, and I'm going to like, my my nephew's dedication, my sister's, I don't know how that works exactly, but he was, like, being dedicated to the church or something. And, so we're there, and I'm sitting next to my mom, and I'm having contractions in church. And I'm sitting there, and it's feeling different. You know? You start feeling them in your cervix. They're a little bit lower. They're hugging your hips. And I'm like, okay. This might be the real thing, but I'm so apprehensive to say anything to anybody because everybody was waiting on me for two days while I was in labor the last time that I'm like, okay. I'm not gonna say anything. I'm I'm in labor. I'm obviously in labor. And so that night, we call my midwife and she comes over and she's you know, kinda checking me out. And, and I'm definitely, like, I'm moaning through contractions and, it just never it never picked up the way that I was hoping. And so that night, she was like, you know, I think you just need to get in bed. Just get in bed, put a pillow under your leg, rest, and, we'll see where you're at in the morning. I'm gonna if you don't mind, I'm gonna stay in the in the room next to us so that I'm here for you. And I was like, okay. Cool. So I sleep inconsistently throughout that night. I'm having contractions probably, like, every thirty minutes, you know, but nothing ever ever really picks up. There's that entire time that I'm contracting, there's not a consistent pattern, a labor pattern, for, you know, what somebody would consider a normal labor. So the next morning, my midwife comes in at like six o'clock in the morning and checks on me. She's like, hey, you wanna just take a hot shower, watch the days away, we'll go take a walk. So I took a hot shower and it felt so good. And we're walking around the block and all of a sudden I felt like I'm peeing myself, like it's a little trickle down my leg. And I was like, I stopped. I was like, I don't think I peed myself, but I think I peed myself. So, yeah, my water's trickling down my leg, and she's like, okay, yeah, let's go test it. And she has these little pH strips, and she tests it. And she's like, yeah, your water broke. Like, okay. Sweet. And so finally, I start my body kinda kicks into gear, and I start really feeling consistent contractions. This is, probably seven o'clock in the morning that this happened. And then I have the baby at eleven o'clock. So I
Speaker 3
have four hours of Nice.
Speaker 2
Active labor. Little tricky baby. She was a tricky baby, and I'll tell you why. The the the entire labor, I am like I feel like a wild animal. Like, I'm thrashing around a lot. Not thrashing, but I feel like I'm thrashing around. You know? My sister was like, I don't think you were as crazy like, I think you were crazier in your head than you actually were. Us observing, my sister was there taking pictures. Us observing, it wasn't as crazy as you thought you were, but I felt crazy. I felt like an animal. And, I was very vocal and very out of control. So I I feel like every lesson every birth gives you lessons. With my first birth, I think it was just kind of my intro to motherhood, you know, and learning to, take charge of my of my own birth myself. With this birth, I feel like it was a lesson of surrendering because I never completely surrendered to, labor, to the contractions. I I never felt like I get could get on top of them. I was trying to control it too much. But, also, I was trying to live broadcast my freaking birth like an idiot because I wanted my friends and my family to see how amazing birth was. Right? What? But I had the computer on, and so I felt like I was being watched the entire time. So it was also a lesson about boundaries and how I birth. Right? So I can totally do that. But for me, it was not okay. So my sisters, like, shut off the cameras, and I remember that's whenever things really started going too. And then, so I'm in the birth tub. We we have a water birth. I'm at home. I'm in the birth tub, and, baby's head starts coming out and it's smooth. And I'm like, I thought that it would be she'd have a lot more hair and it would be wrinkly. And my midwife was like, that's a butt. That baby's breeched. And I was like, okay. And and so I remember, like, I'm sitting there and I took a deep breath. I said, okay. What do we do? And she was like, just keep doing what you're doing. And I was like, okay. And so she was out in two more pushes, and she came out. And, her she's her body was folded for a good, like, twenty four hours, and it was
Speaker 3
so cute. Like a little rubber chicken.
Speaker 2
A little rubber chicken. It was so cute. And she she's a tourist, and she's so freaking stubborn. This girl is so stubborn, and her birth was so stubborn. Like, it's so funny how I I see the correlation between their births and their personality almost. So so that was my home breech water bird. And after her birth, I felt like such a badass. It was so incredible. So, my mom was coming over a few hours later to, you know, to meet her. And I was up, like, sweeping my house and trying to get you know, I felt like a a powerful woman. Ladies, if you're listening to this, do not get out of bed. I don't care how good you feel. It does not matter what your house looks like. It doesn't matter if if you feel on top of the world. Just don't get out of bed.
Speaker 3
And, like, the truth is that the power move postpartum is to lay the fuck down. Oh my gosh. You know, like, that's really the power move because underneath that that whole concept of getting up and hosting and and showing everyone how great you feel and are, that's actually not powerful. You know, that's, like, not understanding what's going on and centering yourself and honoring your postpartum period at all. You know, I know you know all of this, which is why I'm saying it.
Speaker 2
Yes. It's it
Speaker 3
like, the power move is to lay the fuck down.
Speaker 2
Just do it. Just lay down. Yep. So so I remember, my bleeding lasted, like, eight weeks with her because I just wouldn't. I felt so good. I wanted the world to see how amazing home birth could be. Right? Like, I had something to prove.
Speaker 3
And that right. And that we associate we, you know, all this, like, deeply misogynistic, you know, beliefs that to show everyone how good you are, how great you are, how strong you are, is to not honor that your body needs rest. So interesting. So backwards. Yep. So many women do that, man.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yes. I know. I know. Okay. So how's my last? Yeah. My bleeding lasted, like, eight weeks. Third baby is two years later. So my, like, two and a half years later. She was born my second baby was born in two thousand thirteen. Third baby was born in two thousand sixteen. Her her pregnancy was interesting because, I had a lot of anxiety with her pregnancy. So I was really kind of worried that it would roll over into my labor and my birth. So I worked really hard throughout this pregnancy to get into the right mental space. Lots of meditation, lots of self work, with went into her, labor and and throughout my pregnancy. I hired the same midwife, because I just really appreciated her presence. She was pretty damn hands off for for, an American midwife. I I went into labor again at, like, three o'clock in the morning. All of my labors, I've started at, like, in the wee hours of the morning. So by by this time, I kind of I kind of know that once everything settles down, once once I put Lila to sleep, because she was still nursing, that things would kinda start going when it was time. I'm forty weeks pregnant at this point, and I remember laying in bed. It was, like like I said, about three o'clock in the morning, and I feel fluid coming out of my vagina. And, I just kind of ignore it because I'm tired. I was like, maybe that's just some more mucus because, the previous night, I had some bloody show. I was like, that's probably just more mucus. I have to I have to wake up in the morning and get my daughter to school. I'm just gonna ignore that. And, and then I have another, like, little Braxton Hicks contraction or whatever you wanna call it, and there's more fluid. And I was like, okay. This is probably not just mucus. And so I stand up and I'm I start walking to the restroom, and it's like, it's like in the movies, you know, it just goes. And I was like, woah. Okay. That that was unexpected compared to my little trickle of waters Mhmm. With my second second birth. So, so her water breaks. And, my husband goes, did do you pee yourself? And I was like, no. I didn't pee myself. That that was my water breaking, babe. Call into work. You probably wanna get some sleep. And so, I asked him to stay in bed and kind of keep the kids away from me so I could go into the living room and, be by myself. Because I knew at this point that I turned into, like, an animal. I wanna be in the dark. I wanna be in my cave space. I wanna feel safe, and I wanna be alone. I don't wanna be touched. I don't want you to talk to me. So I set up a birth space to to help help me achieve that. And that those those hours, those early morning hours that I was able to spend in labor by myself was so precious to me. Mhmm. I just remember, like, lighting my incense and playing my music and connecting and and, praying and really connecting with Milo, my third daughter, in my stomach. And I remember, talking to her, like, saying, okay. We've got this. We're in this together. I hope that you're not scared. I'm here with you, and and and I just felt her. You know, I felt her energetically. So from three o'clock in the morning to about nine o'clock in the morning, finally, my my oldest daughter wakes up and she comes into the living room, and she's like, you're having a baby today. I'm not at school. And I was like, yeah.
Speaker 3
Oh, cute.
Speaker 2
She brings me covers and she's, like, covering me with the blankets and getting me water and making sure that I'm I'm fed. And she she becomes this little doula baby for me. And and let me see. This is about nine o'clock in the morning. I'm very vocal, and so I tell I tell her to go get my husband to fill up the birth tub. So he fills up the birth tub. He calls my sister to come over, and he calls our birth photographer to come over. Labor progresses. It's really kind of uneventful. I'm very in my head. I'm breathing deeply. And throughout every contraction, I feel like I am lifted higher and higher out of myself into, like, the cosmos is the only way I can explain it. Look. Whenever I think back at this birth, I am almost looking down on myself is how I remember it. I don't remember being in my body, which is so incredible. And I think it has a lot to do with just the mental preparation, entrusting my body that it's just gonna do its thing. So my sister and my birth photographer arrive around ten o'clock. My husband calls the midwife. She arrives around ten thirty. I, whenever she arrives, about five minutes after she arrives, I start puking. And I know that I'm in transition. It's what I do. You know? And so I'm puking. And as I'm puking, I'm feeling my cervix opening up. Right.
Speaker 3
And so
Speaker 2
I'm just I'm just embracing the puke, you know, like letting other people I'm not in this I'm not in the birth pool at this point. I'm just, like, standing up and my floors puking. I'm like, okay. You'll you'll get that. You all get it. Right? So I feel my cervix opening up, and and I I remember telling them, like, it's time to get into the birth pool. And so I remember having feeling very powerful by not being told I'm allowed to get into the birth pool now. Like, I know that it's time to get into the birth pool. So I get into the birth pool, and I birth her at, like, eleven thirty. So my midwife was there for about an hour. And, again, she's just observing. She doesn't ask to check me. She's she's just there, and I love her presence. In that way, she's very nurturing. She's very mothering and very hands off and, just trusts the process. And I love that about her. So I have the baby. She's, she's my biggest baby at this point. She's nine pounds, six ounces. She has this just like this ring of fat around her head. It's so beautiful. I love watching the the videos of her birth. And, and the postpartum is the immediate postpartum is so beautiful. I just get out of the birth tub. It took, like, twenty minutes to birth this placenta. That's something I forgot to mention with the breech birth, my second home birth. The placenta took probably forty minutes to come. And this looking back, I don't understand why she made this move. But, after I birthed the placenta, my midwife said that I was bleeding more than she was comfortable with and gave me a shot of Pitocin. And at the time, I was like, okay. I didn't feel bad. I wasn't dizzy. I appreciate that she waited until after the placenta was birthed, you know, but I I just didn't understand that. So with this baby, my third third home birth home birth, back at this this birth, there was no placenta. No no issues. You know what I mean? Nothing to look for. And,
Speaker 3
we just stab you with drugs?
Speaker 2
She didn't stab me with drugs this time. I appreciate that. Cleaned up and and left. So that was a super peaceful, simple birth.
Speaker 3
Sounds beautiful.
Speaker 2
Postpartum was amazing. Breastfeeding was amazing. So I breastfed her for two years. And a little after two years, I was done. My husband and I were, like, sexually connecting. You know? And we were finally getting to that groove, and, and I felt sexy, and I was like, you know what? I'm ready to have my body back. So my mother-in-law took the kids that weekend. That that's Yes. Yes. She was about two years old. And It's
Speaker 3
really a bummer that the way we make babies is also how we have sex.
Speaker 2
I know it, Emily. Oh, and something else to mention is we we conceived my third daughter whenever my mother-in-law took my my other daughter. So so every baby that she that we've conceived, she's she's happy. That. Yeah. Because we she lives kinda far away, so we don't get babysitters very often. Anyway, so so we're like, you know what? We're gonna go out. We're gonna have a date. We we're gonna go party. And so, she's gone, and I made the decision to get my nipples pierced. So I get my nipples pierced. That way when she comes back, I can be like, sorry. Look. There's, like, there there I don't know what happened. You can't nurse anymore. And and, that's the night that we conceived our fourth child, was the night that I got my nipples pierced. My god.
Speaker 3
And that's gonna be the title of this episode. Yeah. It's a great title. Wow.
Speaker 2
And so my my my daughter comes back, and I remember she's she has pupupa. And I showed her my nipples and she just looked at me and she was like, what the fuck? And I was like, I got my nipples pierced, baby. They're aren't they pretty? And she was like, yeah, they're pretty. And never asked for milk again. I was like, this is the way to wean your baby whenever you're ready. Stop nursing. But, about a month later let me preface this to say, a month before we conceived this baby, I thought that I was pregnant. And I've always felt another little baby spirit. After Milo's birth, I remember telling Andrew, I don't think that we're done. But at this time, I remember feeling very done before we conceived our fourth child. Fourth child. I was very done. I did not wanna have any babies. We were sexually on point. We were finally in a groove, but I felt this little baby presence. And I was speaking to one of my mentors, my day, and, she's like this really amazing bruja, woman. And she was like, you need to be very careful because I feel like there's a baby coming to you. And if you don't want a baby, you need to be conscious of that. But we were totally not conscious that night. We were, like, trunk off our asses. I was ovulating, and I told my husband that I was ovulating. He was like, yeah. We'll be okay. So we created that baby. So about a month later, I swear to
Speaker 3
God, I feel like men don't understand how pregnancy happens.
Speaker 2
Like, I know. It is funny. And I told my husband, because this is our fourth child, and I am so done. However, I'm not gonna be on birth control. He knows that. He doesn't want me to be on birth control. And I told him, maybe you should get a vasectomy, and he doesn't wanna get a vasectomy because there are also studies that indicate that maybe a vasectomy isn't the safest thing.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. I would never want my my beloved to have a vasectomy. Yeah.
Speaker 2
I don't want any any chance of, like, testicular cancer or
Speaker 3
Not just that, but but cutting. It's so western, right, to just be like, let's just do the quick easy thing. But, like, to cut one of the most profound energetic meridians in a man's body is just whack. Yeah. Anyway, but Yeah.
Speaker 2
He's not asking me to get my tubes tied. You know, why should I ask him to get a vasectomy? It's kind of where we're at. But at the same time, I'm like, you're not very good at pulling out, and there's there's a possibility that we could make another kid. So that's where we're at right now. But, so
Speaker 3
I mean, pregnancy can be avoided.
Speaker 2
Right? Like, like, it's not a combination.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like, it's not a crapshoot. Like, you obviously do fertility awareness. You, you know, there's this, like, really, really, really highly effective thing called condoms. Like, you know, it you you could avoid pregnancy. Obviously, I'm just teasing. Okay. Okay. Go ahead.
Speaker 2
So so I get pregnant, and I remember waking up one morning and going, fuck. Fuck. I'm pregnant. And so I called my husband and told him to bring, a pregnancy test home on on his way to lunch. And so he grabbed a pregnancy test, and I take the test. It immediately turns, and we both start crying. I'm crying because I am, like, grieving this life that I had planned out for us. And I know that it's gonna be several years before we get back into the groove that we're in. That's just the way that it works with us. And he's crying because he's so happy. And he was so sweet and understanding, and he didn't make me feel bad about or guilty about being sad about being pregnant. So this pregnancy and birth was beautiful in that I allowed myself the space to go into the dark spaces so that I could shed light on it. So I created very strong boundaries, and I was very forward about creating boundaries. You know, I I whenever I announced the pregnancy, I announced it online. I only told a few people. There were a lot of family members that were upset that I how dare I not come to them and call them first before I announce the pregnancy online, but that was my choice. And, with this pregnancy, I I knew that I wanted an unassisted birth after Milo's birth for sure. I there was no fear surrounding birth whatsoever, especially after my healing second daughter's birth. My midwife that I was using actually moved to Montana. But even if she were local, I don't think that I would have hired her. However, in the head space that I was in in my first trimester, I sought out a midwife. And so I hired this midwife, and she was she was great, but we didn't quite connect. And I knew that I wanted an unassisted birth. I'm not really sure why I hired her, but I also wasn't in a headspace to appreciate my pregnancy yet, and I think that's why I needed her in that moment.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's a process.
Speaker 2
It was a process. It was a process for me. I told her that I didn't want any ultrasounds, and she kind of encouraged me to get an ultrasound in the first trimester. Again, I wasn't in a headspace to fight back. And so I I received an ultrasound with this baby, and I remember getting the ultrasound at about twelve weeks and just sitting there going, why am I even doing this? What am I doing? And red flags finally started coming up. And, I was thinking, I told her I didn't want any ultrasounds. Why am I here right now?
Speaker 3
This is
Speaker 2
the first step of letting go of my autonomy, like, letting go of control of my own bird. And, I had one more appointment with her after this in which she started encouraging me to get another ultrasound at twenty weeks Yeah. And pulling out the doppler and saying, it's right here. You could hear the baby's heartbeat. And, she said at one point because we live in a school bus and we live out in the middle of nowhere. The closest hospital to us is about forty minutes away. She was not she was not comfortable with me giving birth in our school bus so far away from a hospital without an ultrasound at twenty weeks. And that right there was like, I'm sorry. This isn't gonna work. I'm gonna I'm gonna birth this baby in my own terms. So I approached my husband, and, I was like, you know, I I don't want a midwife. I decided I don't want a midwife. What do you think of that? And he was like, yeah. Okay. Whatever. This is you do you. You know that you can do it. I have I have faith in you. And I appreciate that about him so much, is that he was always on board for whatever I wanted. It was never about him. It was always about supporting me. And he later told me that whenever I approached him with that, a little bit of fear, started creeping in his creeping up in his head, you know, because, oh my gosh, we live so far away from a hospital. What if something happens? But he never showed any of that fear. It never came across his face. I never felt it in any way. He was so good about protecting me in that in that way, you know, protecting me from him and his fears, and so I just want to say that I really appreciate that about him. But I remember him going, yeah, let's save five thousand dollars let's do it. I was like, okay, sweet. So this pregnancy was so fucking amazing. It was amazing because I didn't have to pee on any sticks. I just completely listened to my body, and I knew the entire time that everything was gonna be okay. There was nothing wrong with me. I used I used herbs. I used nettle infusions as my, prenatal vitamins because I felt like I got more out of those than I did act like pills. There was just so much about this pregnancy that was powerful and that I, I just trusted myself. So this pregnancy and and birth was all about trust, you know, just trusting myself, trusting the process, not knowing what was coming, letting go of any expectations, letting go of control, and letting the process happen. And that's exactly how it happened. I remember telling my family that I was going to have a free birth. Nobody was really surprised. Everyone was like, yeah. That makes sense. You know? So one question everyone had though was, are there any hospitals nearby? And I told everyone that there was a hospital in, like, the next town over, and it wasn't a hospital. It was just an ER room. But, but that's what I told people to kind of ease their fears. I mean, forty minutes is pretty close. It's not bad.
Speaker 3
It's not like three hours. I mean, there's people on remote islands that have to get helicoptered if there's something. If there's something Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Forty minutes is not that bad.
Speaker 2
It's not, and it was never in my it was never in my thoughts to even worry about how far away it was because nothing was ever gonna happen. Why would I go to a hospital? I wasn't gonna go to a hospital and, honestly, by the time I needed help, what what was gonna change, really? So, that whatever. That didn't bother me. That wasn't a thing thing in my in my thoughts. So with her birth, we asked my mother-in-law to come stay with us, to help our daughters out if they needed, any kind of attention and care. And to be completely honest, I didn't know if I wanted them there. My children were present at each other's births up to this one, but I knew that I don't like being watched by anybody. I wanted my partner there with me, for support, and that's it. And so, like I said, we have we live in a school bus, but we have a cabin shell that's what we're gonna renovate into a home. So my mother-in-law made a, like, a camping spot in our cabin shell to take the kids to to sleep in while I was in labor. So at thirty eight weeks, I, woke up one morning and my three year old was, like, laying across me, and I pushed her off of me. And as I pushed her off of me, my water broke and it was and so I was like, I looked over at my husband and I was like, hey. Don't, you know, call into work. It's something's gonna happen. And it was a Friday. And I remember being really appreciative that it was a Friday because my mother-in-law didn't have to take off of work. My husband, I I actually told him to go into work because he he works four miles down the road from us at the local automotive shop. And I was like, yeah. Go go tie up loose ends. I don't wanna be watched. I wanna be here by myself. So that entire day, I was I was alone. I was alone that entire day because, my husband went into work, tied up loose ends, came back a couple of hours later, and was like, okay. I'm gonna go grocery shopping. I'm gonna do a week's worth of laundry. He got all of the laundry done, and he just he he did all of that stuff just to stay out of my space and to prepare everything, make sure that we had lots of clean towels. That was another thing that I really appreciated too, was the cost of this birth was, like, fifteen dollars. We went to the Dollar Tree and bought a plastic shower curtain to put over our bed. I didn't buy a birth tub because, well, there was nowhere to put a birth tub. Like, we live in a fucking mess. And, I didn't buy a birth kit. I didn't feel like I needed any of that stuff. We bought a tape measure. We bought a fish scale to weigh the baby, and I had some Chucks pads and some diapers for myself, and that was it.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
So, oh my god. That was so amazing. I just I appreciated that so much.
Speaker 3
Well, and it it helps it kind of integrate as a normal as a normal part of your life when you're not, you know, dropping five thousand dollars and doing all this prep. And there's nothing inherently wrong at all, you know, with if if if you choose to have women there and and you pay them with money, like, that's beautiful and awesome, you know. And, yeah, I think there's undeniably something that's just, like, it's so normal to just be pregnant and then just have a baby and, you know, and not make it this whole thing.
Speaker 2
Like, it wasn't a thing. Exactly. It's just like, okay. We're gonna have a baby. Let's do this. You know? So, so like I said, my my water broke that Friday morning. It was about seven o'clock in the morning, and my husband was gone for most of the day to let me kind of get into the birth headspace. So I was entering the birth headspace preparing my, you know, my space, my bus, and nothing ever happened. I had a couple of those, like, normal Braxton Hicks contractions that I've been having since, like, eighteen weeks. So I knew that nothing was happening. And I was like, you know, it's daytime. It's daytime. Something's probably gonna gonna kick into gear at night whenever it's dark. And sure enough, that night, my mother-in-law took the kids into the cabin, and I started having contractions, like, every fifteen minutes. I never wanted to time them because I just didn't want to, like, medicalize this earth. I just wanna be I did not wanna be heady. Yeah. But I did notice that they were changing a little bit. I could feel them more in my cervix, and, I felt like something was probably gonna happen that night, but I was exhausted. I was so exhausted because I was very heady during the day. I was like, okay, my water broke. Something's gonna happen. Let's prepare everybody and everything around me to to do this. And, it just exhausted me. So I kind of had a talk with myself, and I was like, I'm okay if I don't have this baby tonight. I need some rest. Let's get some rest. And my contractions stopped. And I fell asleep, and I had a good night sleep. So I woke up the next morning, and my husband's like, okay. No baby. What are we doing? And I was like, we're not doing anything, but, you know, mama can take the kids. She can go to the park, keep them away, keep them occupied. I'm just gonna keep doing me. You know? So and that's what I did. Contractions were I was not in in active labor whatsoever, but they were more present. And I started getting frustrated around this is the next day. This is on a Saturday. Around, like, three PM, I was getting a little frustrated. And I was like, okay. Nothing's happening. I really would like something to happen by now, but I know that something's not gonna happen until it's dark because that's who I am. And so I, I told my husband, I was like, we need to get out of here. Let's get out of this bus. The the space is prepared. I just need to leave. So we went and we, like, got some ice cream and we drove around and walked around the store to get a a salt lamp. I wanted to, you know, those Himalayan salt lamps because they're so great for postpartum. You could keep them turned on at night and still change diapers without having to turn on lights. Yeah. Exactly. So while I was walking around the store, I finally would have to stop and breathe through contractions. And, I was like, okay. Yes. Things are finally happening. So, so we headed home. Again, my kids were kind of excited and asking me when we were gonna have the baby and, distracting me. So contractions didn't really pick up again until everyone fell asleep at, like, nine o'clock that night. This is Saturday night, so it's been several hours since my water has broke. And it's just kinda continuously leaking. I never get a fever. The baby's moving fine. There's no discoloration in in the in the waters. I I'm confident that everything is perfectly okay. There is nothing wrong. Why would there be? My water just broke. So I asked my husband to go ahead and go to sleep because I felt like I would probably need him in the early hours of the morning, so he fell asleep. And whenever he fell asleep and I was alone in the dark by myself, contractions picked up. And he woke he said he woke up to me around ten thirty that night, at the end of the bed covered in a rebozo. I had this rebozo that my mentor, her grandmother made, like, clutching my my I have this, rose quartz necklace with a little mother Mary talisman that I used whenever, I used to mentor under my thing. And so the Revosa is over my head and I'm sitting there moaning, like, in a little cave and he, he woke up and he was like, okay, cool. Things are happening, and he jumps behind me and just starts squeezing my hips. And we do that for hours. And, again, it's it's really kind of uneventful. Things just progress the way that they progress. There's more mucus. There's more waters. There's more moaning. And I'm laying on my bed. And it's funny because throughout this entire pregnancy, I only ever imagined giving birth on our bed for some reason, and that's where I ended up. So I'm on on my hands and hands and knees on the bed, and, I can't get comfortable. It hurts to be on my hands and knees, and I'm starting to get really tired. So I'm laying down in between in between contractions, And I I just remember I can't get comfortable. And I remember thinking this is where water would be really nice so that I can just float in the water. But we end up having the baby at four o'clock that morning. So, I recognize my transition. I start throwing up, of course. And as I'm throwing up, I feel my cervix, like, melting away. I don't know if you do you remember that feeling? Did you throw up during transition?
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. But I didn't feel that.
Speaker 2
The it it was it was like I could I could feel it opening. I could feel her descending in my vagina, and the cervix just kind of melted away. That's true. Really drop. And so whenever she really dropped, she kicked the top of my uterus and kinda came through really fast. And I was like, okay. Here we go. So I get on my hands and knees. And as I'm on my hands and knees, there's a couple of contractions where I feel like I'm pooping all over the place. And I told my husband, am I pooping? And he's looking and he's like, no, baby, you're not pooping. And it was so sweet. And, and then, the next contraction, there's like two more contractions and I do start pooping. And this man cleans up the poop with his bare hands. I was like, why didn't you grab a Chuck's head, babe? And he's like, I wasn't thinking about it. I just knew the baby was coming, and I didn't want her to fall in the poop. So I just I just I just cleaned up the poop with my hand, and I was like, you're so amazing. That's so great. And, and she comes out. She comes out in one contraction. I'm not gonna say push because I never pushed. Throughout the entire thing, I let my body take over, of course, and you feel that fetal ejection reflex. And I'm just breathing through it, and I remember holding my vulva and holding my bottom to make sure that, you know, it's it feels nice. And, and she comes out. And whenever she comes out, this entire pregnancy, I swear she's a boy. But, Emily, with all of my pregnancies, I swear my children were boys, and I have four girls.
Speaker 3
Oh my god.
Speaker 2
So so she comes out, and I hear my husband. Like, he's crying, and he's holding her, and he's behind me holding her. And I hear her cry, and I remember I hear her cry, and so I think, okay. She's okay. So I just lay down for a second. Like, I don't
Speaker 3
Oh, I bet.
Speaker 2
Oh, god. And that that first, like, breath of thank god this is over, I felt like it lasted forever. Mhmm. But it was probably just a couple of beats. And my husband was like, hey. What do you want me to do with her? And I was like, hold on. Just hold on. Just hold on to her, please. Give me a second. And I I just rested. Then I turn over, and I remember I turn over, and I hold her in my chest, and I wept harder than I've ever wept before at a birth. All of my births have been pretty emotional but relaxing. But this birth, for some reason, was just so incredibly emotional. And we're laying there in all of my waters and the little bit of blood and the poop together on this plastic shower curtain on our bed, holding each other and crying. And this baby is so cheesy because she's thirty eight weeks. She was my earliest baby, and she was the cheesiest baby I've ever seen. Like, there's just it's it's coming off on me. And, god, it was just it was so beautiful. It was such a beautiful birth. So that's four o'clock in the morning. Placenta comes probably twenty minutes later. And this part, I really appreciate as well because with my other birth, the midwife took care of everything. She, you know, would take the placenta. She, inspected it to make sure everything was, coming out okay. So my husband wasn't involved in any of that part. But this time, my placenta was birthed, and we're sitting there, and we're inspecting it together, and I'm able to tell him what to look for and how everything works. And he's, like, fascinated by it. He's looking at it too. And so whenever my placenta is birthed, I'm like, okay. I really need a shower. So he takes the baby. And I go and take a shower, and I come back to a completely clean bed with him laying on the bed with with our baby. And it's And then Oh, this is just the best thing ever. And, and that was that. We called my mother-in-law and our daughters into the room around six thirty, and she's able to witness us burn the cord, which was really beautiful, and she really appreciated being a part of that. And, and like I said, that's that. You know? There was really nothing else to do. We were laying in bed, and we stayed in bed for as long as we possibly could. And, it was just an incredible experience. And if I ever have another baby, I don't want another baby. But if I do, it's gonna be that again. I'll you know, I will always and forever have a free birth. I can't imagine it any other way.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful. Okay. I have to ask, how is it living in a bus with four kiddos?
Speaker 2
It's exactly what you would expect it to be. It's pure chaos. But I tell people all the time, you know, we've we've lived in homes with children, and it was pure chaos. They are always right under you. They are always screaming in your face for something. We live on two acres of land.
Speaker 3
Right. They're outside a lot. I'm sure.
Speaker 2
They're outside all the time. Right. They wake up and they go outside. And, if we need to get out, we can get out. It's it's challenging at times because my husband is six four, so he doesn't have much space. But also there's five women around him. There's a lot of estrogen, and he couldn't he couldn't be a more perfect, like, girl dad.
Speaker 3
He Yeah.
Speaker 2
So well, and he just loves them so much. You know, like I said, it's challenging, but I feel like every family has their own challenges, and it's just a different kind of chaos than anyone else Yeah. Experiences on the daily. So Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Well, thank you. It's nice to finally connect and just hear your growth and your grace and your maturity and your wisdom and like you said at the start of this conversation, just you've really, you know, like so many women on this podcast, you've really taken taken your your lessons and and applied them and grown from them and and used them to create more and more beautiful experiences in life for for your family. It's so it's so awesome.
Speaker 2
It is. It's really, really amazing. You know, I I really I think it's great that women who are pregnant with their first babies who choose free birth are able to harness that part of them in the beginning rather than having to build up to it. That's such a beautiful thing. But, but, yeah, this is my journey, and this is where I was supposed to be. So
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 1
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
