Speaker 0
Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child Saldea.
Speaker 1
Saldea. Are you craving a community of like minded women? Do you feel like an outsider in your family or your community? Well, I may have the place for you. We have a Freebird Society private online community that's full of radical and wild women just like you. If you resonate with the topics that we explore on this podcast and wanna belong in a circle of women who support each other in the self exploration of free birth and wild mothering, come join us. You can apply online at our website, free birth society dot com. It's where myself and my team are hanging out these days, and we would love to get to know you. The word that comes to my mind when I think about this week's guest is refreshing. Sabali is a true inspiration to me with her deep sense of self and no bullshit attitude. In Sabali's first birth, she was literally abandoned by her birthing team during her home birth, and therefore eventually transferred herself to find support. So when she got pregnant with her second child, she was already highly attuned to what did and didn't feel right. So halfway through her second pregnancy, she left her providers in the system and prepared for her free birth on her own terms.
Speaker 2
I would say it it does start hearing my birth from my mother. And, you know, I'm the oldest of four. I was born in New York City in Harlem. And, you know, just regular standard now I will say, you know, being born in the eighties, they were introducing new medical techniques to pregnancy. And so my mother did say I think it was, you know, was it with my sister? Me and my sister are only thirteen months apart
Speaker 1
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2
That, yeah, Irish twins. Mhmm. That, I one of us, she was losing a lot of blood, and she was saying that she was actually going into shock, and she kinda saw her light leaving her. Now with me, that's what it was. My birth was that I was, like she was in hard labor, she says, for, like, two weeks straight. And, she still was able to birth all her children vaginally. Those were things that were important to her, and, also what was important to her was being able to breastfeed. And so I always had that kind of understanding on, like, vaginal birth and stuff like that. Very basic, but, you know, according to my mother, it was very important that she did those things. So, outside of, you know, her being in labor for, like, just two weeks and it was this back to back craziness, clearly, she was able to birth easily in that regard. So I always took for granted my fertility, and I never you know, you know, I was over thirty five, and I hadn't had a child yet. And so people were like, oh, well, you know. And I just I just never gave in to that thought. You know? My my paternal grandmother, she didn't get married until she was thirty six, and then she had nine children. Oh my god. Yeah. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be good. Like, if you know? Good for forty five. And maybe it's more of a mentality than anything, but I just said that's not just that's not gonna be me. I'm not gonna have issues with that. You know? So, finally, my husband, I was doing some intern work out in LA because I'm a a chef, and I was doing some some work out there. And my husband kept saying, you need to come back. We live here in, Texas. He's like, you need to come back. You know, we were supposed to get pregnant before you left. So he he's he was very much by the book. So all my children have been planned because I know my fertility. I know when I ovulate, it was just, like, clockwork in that regard. And that was kinda cool because I hear so many things about people who didn't know that they were pregnant. I'm like, how do you not know you're pregnant? But you know? So so my first one was planned, and I purposely planned her to well, I didn't know if it was a her or him, but I purposely planned to get pregnant in the summertime so that I can have a winter baby, you know, because it's hot as hell where we live. Mhmm. And I was like, I'm not yeah. Everybody said that's the worst experience. Well, I found that out with baby number two. Oh, no. But at least the first one, I said, I'm gonna have this baby on my terms the way way I could. And so I did. I had a wonderful pregnancy. It was I still, you know, went to yoga. I didn't have morning sickness. One time, I remember serving my husband dinner, and I got nauseated to the point I had to go to sleep. That was it. Everything else was great. So I was like, this is amazing. So I was feeling a little bit like I was I had too much confidence. You know? I guess I was waiting for the shoe to drop saying this it it can't be this easy. Something I'm not doing something right. When I hear all the stories of, like, preeclampsia and high blood pressure this and, like, you know, gestational diabetes, I'm like, something I'm something's gonna happen. And so I found a midwife, you know, with with looking for midwives. And, unfortunately, in our area, there might be maybe two mid black midwives. Maybe two. And, you know, you know how big it is here. And that was really sad. I didn't need my midwife to be black per se, but I I did need to have a decent connection. Of course. I, you know, I connected with one midwife, and, she she was nice. She was she was a educator, which I love because I always had a lot of questions, and she always helped me with that. But I always had this feeling that she she didn't one hundred percent believe in the process of birth, but it was this little feeling in the back of my head. And what what do I know? You know? I it was my first birth, my first pregnancy. I don't know anything. So I just had to, put my my faith and everything into her hands. But I kept thinking, like, you know, well, if birth just happens, like, I do know women on the continent of Africa birth with, like, just them and their mother or, you know, somebody of the village, and they do this all the time without
Speaker 1
On all continents. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Yeah. On all continents. Not just, like you know? But just the we're not not everybody's running to the hospital. Right. And so, you know, she would be like, oh, well, if this happened, we would have to go to the hospital. If this happened, we would have to transfer. And I'm like, well, one, we're not even there yet. So why are you potentially bringing up the these scenarios?
Speaker 1
And was this a home birth midwife?
Speaker 2
Yes. So I the goal was to have a home birth. We weren't gonna do, like, a birth center or anything like that, so I wanted to do a pool. And and I didn't even actually wanna do, like, a water birth. I was just always told that laboring in the water was very comforting. So I had envisioned that I would labor in the water and then get out, blah blah blah. And, well, long story short, it comes to the the the week. And, I was at the movies with my husband, and I felt, like, a little pop at the top of my belly. Woah. And I was like, what is that noise? It's it literally sound like a little, like, balloon pop. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then maybe twenty minutes later, I felt like a little gush. Uh-huh. Now the gush felt more like like, like, felt like discharge. Yeah. Because I went to the I went to the restroom, and I saw that my seat was wet, but there was nothing else. There was, like, you know, no more water was coming out. And, you know, of course, you know, in my thinking, everything goes, like, either you I was always told it'd be there's gonna be a gush and pop. You know? Like, clearly, your membranes have have burst or that it was gonna be a trickle. Mhmm. So I said, okay. Well, let's let's see what's going on. And I stayed out we stayed out, like, five hours later. So I didn't have any trickle or anything. So I'm like, clearly, that must have been, like, just things are getting going. I don't know. Right? Because I disregard it. And then not in retrospect, you always you need to go with your first mind. Right? I contacted my doula who I had more faith in my doula than my midwife, and I asked I told her what I felt. I told her what happened. And she, being my doula, is like, you should contact you should tell your midwife. And that's where I realized was the mistake. I should have never told my midwife. So I did. And so No.
Speaker 1
No. You should. You have told your midwife. Just the midwife, it shouldn't have had negative repercussions.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yes. Yes. And then you find this all out at the end, but Bummer. I I contacted her, and true to form, she's like, well, it sounds like your water is broken. And if this happened this long ago, then you have to go to the hospital. Like, how the hell do you just start off right there? Like, that's what she says. Like, it happens.
Speaker 1
So many midwives do that. Such a
Speaker 2
And so I I've been, like, that I you know, that started the psychological assault. Mhmm. So then I'm, like, terrified. Like, no. I don't wanna go to the hospital. We worked so hard. Why am I having to go to the hospital? And that's what started the whole downward spiral. So, I at that point, though, I told her, but I'm not feeling anything. Like, I'm not having contractions. I'm not having tightness. Like, that's just what happened. So the next she's like, okay. Well, just go to bed. You know? See me the next day, and let's see. I could I could do a test to see if it has been your actual membrane, blah blah. So then what did happen, I started experiencing bloody show, I guess. And, you know, I told her, oh, I I'm starting to have some bloody discharge. And she's like, again, this I think at this point, these are still just via text message. She's like, yeah. I think we're gonna definitely have to go to the hospital. And I'm starting to get pissed now. Like, we have you haven't seen anything. Why are you saying off the bat, let's go to the hospital?
Speaker 1
Why are you call yourself a home birth midwife?
Speaker 2
Yeah. No. I I realized part of it, it it's it's a money situation too, and and it's easy because, oh, I'm I'm a she she was a white midwife, so I'm a woman of color. What the hell do I know what's going on with my body? Oh, x y z. And I didn't know about all that beforehand. It's like, of course, after I have my birth, that's when all this information comes out, but it is what it is. So I go to the house. I do that little swab test and, the the little test, and I guess they check the alkalinity of of the fluid. And it's like, oh, yep. It's, something. I forgot what it was. She's like, yeah. It looks like we're gonna have to go to the hospital. So x y and z.
Speaker 1
Actually, it looks like you're beginning labor. Like like, amniotic fluid and bloody discharge means that you're beginning labor.
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I I don't know. I think maybe I was two centimeters at that point. And so she's like, yeah. We're gonna have to so and I had to I drove to her home to do this. So I'm driving back home completely upset. I'm crying. And that is like, that was the beginning of this massive flood that we were about to experience. It's called, like, the tax flood. So it's starting to rain in the beginning of this historical tax flood that we had. Oh. And then I'm driving down the street. It's raining and pouring. I'm crying and pouring. You know? And then I get home, and then she texts me or calls and says she spoke to another midwife, and the other midwife said, oh, the ambionic fluid off not the ambionic fluid, but blood's the the pH balance of blood is also similar. And since I had that much bloody show that it probably wasn't. Because the thing is she saw the bag. So from her angle, the bag was still intact. So it didn't look like that, you know, my my bag had broken, that this is just, like, you know, the cervix starting to change and widening, and that's the the pH balances from that fluid, and the bag is probably still in case. So she's like, yeah. You don't have to worry about it. But for me, the damage was done.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
And so what's interesting in retrospect, I was not able to recover from that initial experience. Yeah. No matter all the crazy things that happened the next three days, I wasn't able to recover it recover from it. And so I was you know, I had some relief, like, oh, finally. And then, you know, that's when, like, you know, it's raining now. It's monsooning here. And, like, I'm starting to have, like, surges. And I'm really big on hypnobirthing, so I was really trying to get into my hypnobirthing and the surges and stuff, but my surges overall. And I was in that state from Sunday to to Thursday. That's how I was. My surge is never I never had a pattern. They never normalized. They would just come and go. They would get short, and then they were long. And then but regardless of that, throughout all of that, I kept saying, this is normal. Right? Like, you can do this. Right? Like, isn't it the power well, especially in the first one, I always say that it's longer and there's nothing you typically normal. And then that thing with normal, there's a range in normal. So Huge. You you know, you know, the huge range. So they're doing you know, they're taking my test. They're taking the test of the baby, you know, checking our heart rate. All our rates are fine. Our vitals are coming back. So I'm just like, okay. Cool. I don't know what to expect. So long story short on that, she she they weren't My midwife, Norma Doula, was able to come out to the house on Monday because it literally was flooded everywhere. Wow. And then maybe by Tuesday afternoon, they got here. So they get here Tuesday afternoon. I'm basically been in that state of just kind of surging all night and random craziness surging. And, I remember at one point, I was at least five. And they said, oh, we could see the hair. And and I actually was able I touched I felt the hair. I felt Kamaria's head. I felt everything, and I'm like, oh my goodness. This might happen. And it just everything just slowed down. It just slowed down. And so, you know, she tried to give me things to, encourage me to to to progress and stuff like that. And long story short, what happened was on Wednesday, you know, she basically came to my husband and said, listen. We can't continue this. You know, she's been at this state too long. She's in prodomol. I guess that's what it's called. And, you know, she's having failure to progress, and I'm recommending you guys go to the hospital and, you know, you're saying x you're not. So she wrote out this crude contract saying, I've basically released, you know, my client. I'm telling her that she needs to go to the hospital. She's deciding x, y, and z.
Speaker 1
What a shit, midwife, man. Yeah. And, like, oh oh, really? You're suggesting I go to the hospital for the twenty fifth time? Got it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I and I'm like, you you've been suggesting this this this, like, six months ago. Yeah. Exactly. And that's why I'm like, you know, I, you know, my I I didn't want to be responsible for something that I didn't know. But now I understand it was in me. I just needed to properly educate myself. But, you know, for
Speaker 1
Well and I mean, but to be fair to yourself, what most first time women who have never gone through birth want a woman around. And it is no fault of yours that, you know, the woman that you chose to be with you freaking sucked, you know, and totally let you down. Like, she's positioned as the person that's gonna be great to have with you. You know, I was wondering, why did if you said there was two black midwives in in the area, why did you go did you just not connect with them and you connected with the other one more? Or
Speaker 2
Yeah. So the first one, she she lived kinda further out, and they were saying that was one thing they were saying. Like, you don't wanna midwife that's too far out. And I would have probably gone gone with her, but they were like, oh, you know, it's best to try to find somebody that's, like, within twenty minutes.
Speaker 1
Had I known I was gonna have a week long labor, I could've had Yeah.
Speaker 2
I could've I could've definitely gone there and do that. And then, also, that was the other thing. They were saying I don't know if this is a personal, well, I don't know. Maybe it's something with, birth centers. The birth centers have this rule where your first birth have to be at a birth center. Like, they don't wanna do first time moms at home.
Speaker 1
Oh, so the midwives were not home birth midwives for you, the two black ones that were available?
Speaker 2
Yeah. They had their birth centers, and they travel out. But something there's a rule that they, like, first time moms Gotcha.
Speaker 1
That's so gross. Okay.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. That first time moms need to be at the birth center or whatnot. And so So
Speaker 1
that'd be easier to transfer you?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I guess I mean, that's part of the lay of the land. Right? And, you know, if you're if you're, ignorant in in how your body works and how birthing works, I mean, the all they gotta do is fear monger you and say, like, oh my god. You almost died. And so, of course, then you're like, yes. Transfer me. So, so yeah. So after I mean, immediately after we signed that bullshit paperwork and she left my house, that was the first time I was able to, like, breathe, and I felt calm. Wow. Now at this point, I don't have anybody checking on me and the baby, so I don't know what I'm so calm about. But I knew, like, I'm in every time I started to get upset, I would have a contraction, and I knew that didn't make any sense. Mhmm. I mean, literally, when I heard something bad news, I started to contract. And I'm like, that's not how contractions are supposed to work.
Speaker 1
And did your doula stay with you?
Speaker 2
So she stayed with me up until a certain point because, you know, I I don't I don't know about doula certifications and all this stuff, but she had said that she had to leave when the midwives left because her due because something about her certification. And so she did not wanna be responsible if something went bad, and then she's here. So I just thought Let me
Speaker 1
get this straight. So so
Speaker 2
you
Speaker 1
hire a doula and a and a midwife for your home birth, and then during your home birth, they both abandon you because you want to home birth?
Speaker 2
Yes. Because I wasn't progressing. But at that point, the midwife is like, you're not progressing fast enough. And I'm like, bitch, this is not a nine to five job. Like, literally, the sun is starting to set, and it's kind of like she's like, listen. This shouldn't be taking this long. I'm like, what do you mean this shouldn't be taking this long?
Speaker 1
And you're fine. You know? It's not like there was some
Speaker 2
That was my biggest thing because I'm not gonna be one of those people who, like, if I'm like, oh, maybe I'm in a vicarious condition, and maybe I can push it. We were fine. I felt fine. I just was wasn't going anywhere. So long story short, the next morning, like, I finally was able to get, like, three hours of sleep, and that's when I start feeling the contractions again. And, like, at four or five, my water officially broke, and there was no question. Like, no. Yeah. Right? So we're like, okay. And I tell my husband, let's go. Let's go. And my husband loved him. You know? He's like, oh, we can do this ourselves. Let's go out in the backyard on a banana leaf. I'm like, no. At this point, I'm emotionally exhausted, and I'm just like, I just want to go to the hospital. Just let them do whatever. Aw. And that I'm like, and also the I decided to go to a county hospital. I'm like, I don't even wanna go to a catalog hospital. I just wanna be, like, rolled in, you know, a short from a c section. Let's just do this.
Speaker 1
So when your water's open, why is that the why are you, like, let's go to the hospital?
Speaker 2
So oh, thank you. So this is my ignorance on what the situation was. They scared the bejesus out of me of, like, oh, when your water breaks, you only have twelve hours. You need twelve hours to get there to birth and blah blah blah. So had I woken up the next morning and my water was still intact, I would have still probably gone with the flow. But for me, you know, especially that's why she was pushing that a week ago, why I needed to go. I was under the impression, like, oh my goodness. My water breaks. I have to go. So I that was my own personal ignorance, and that was a call that I made at that point. I'm like, okay. We're just going to the hospital. Water's broken. Let's go.
Speaker 1
Meaning, like, let's have somebody get keep eyes on us. Because, obviously, if you're if your water broke and the midwife was still there, you would've
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I feel like, for someone to monitor you guys to make sure you're okay, basically.
Speaker 2
Yeah. At that point, I feel like, okay. Well, labor's probably not labor. The baby's gonna be here very shortly. Right? Because of you know, I'm already been surging on and off for the last four days, and now finally, the the water's broken, so the baby should be
Speaker 1
good. Tough mama. That is not an easy birth.
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm telling you, hypnobirthing, I'm like, I just just believe in the surge. So I'm I'm very grateful for the hypnobirthing because I wanted to be able to mentally still be in the game, and that's why I I did hypnobirthing. It gave me those tools. So we get to the hospital. It's standard. You know, they're putting their finger in me. Yes. You're in active labor. Oh, yes. Maybe I was, like, five or six. Oh, you're the, you know, your bag is the water is broken. We're gonna get you a broom. Everything was normal. I would say what happened was at this point, you know, I'm not progressing because I'm on their time now. And they're like, okay. We gotta get you some medicine. And, you know, I just played my husband wasn't there because he poor thing. He was so tired. He wasn't there yet because he had to park the car, and it was just one of those big Mhmm. Conglomerate hospitals. And I kept saying, like, oh, I'm so tired. I just I can't make these decisions. My husband can make these decisions. And I know how my husband is. He's like, no medicine. I know. He's worse than me. So I just kept saying, oh, let my husband let him oh. So at this point, it's, like, one thirty, and they're like, listen. You've been here since, like, five o'clock this morning. You still have no pitocin. You still have no nothing. You know? I had, like, saline solution or something. They're like, we have to get this going. So I'm like, oh, okay. Okay. Fine. So I'm like, what's the smallest amount of Pitocin that you can give me? And I was grateful they worked with me. So I guess they give you Pitocin every so often. I don't know what the schedule is. But I would ask the nurse, can we skip it this time? She's like, yeah. Like, so they really worked with me. So long story short, in this particular, you know, county hospital, they actually had midwives, and I didn't know that. And so my husband had my birth plan, and he was at the nurse's station talking to the OB about my birth plan, and a midwife happened to walk by him. And he's like the midwife was smart enough to say, okay. Regular people don't have birth plans because OBs don't give a shit about a birth plan. And so she came to him and said, I'm a midwife. I'm available. Would you guys like to birth with me? And because of what happened the other day, I was I was a little hesitant to go with another midwife and all the shit that I would been going through, but my husband convinced me, and I said yes. And it it turned out amazing. She was an amazing midwife, but I still didn't understand what it means to be a midwife under a medical umbrella. So she still was she was, like, the best possible medical midwife. Right? And but she was amazing. I wind up still having, vaginal birth, but I wind up tearing. I tore a lot. And, now I realize because I was told to push, and I was very anti pushing. But at this point, I'm like, why am I pushing? Why am I doing these things? Like, I shouldn't need to do that. So but we had Kamaria vaginally, and, you know, my biggest issue was that I I wind up tearing, but I I love that midwife. She's an amazing midwife. But I just understood now. Now I'm in a pace of, like, yeah. I'm never gonna do that again.
Speaker 1
You pushed you pushed on your back?
Speaker 2
I I so they had the the the bed kind of all the way, like, slightly vertical. So I was kind of, like, in a deep squat, but I was still, like, on my back. I wasn't just free. And then, you know, I'm like, my body's gonna push her out. Why am I having to push? And I'm like, come on. Push, mama. And I I even in that point, I still go back to that. I don't agree with that, and I was right not to agree with that. Aw. So And did you get
Speaker 1
an epidural?
Speaker 2
No. No. No. No epidural. None of that shit. Yeah. You were
Speaker 1
just on pit. That's that's
Speaker 2
what you're And and at the smallest amount possible because they let me, like, cut my dosage once, and then they skipped one round. And then they so, yeah, it was just a small amount. So it was it was great. So here it is. My husband's like, you know, now that Kumari is, like, moving and grooving and she she's growing and having a good time, my husband's looking at me like, okay. Well, it's now for another baby. And I'm like, give my I wanna give my body an opportunity to heal and stuff like that. And he's like, okay. You said that back in September. It's now November. Not in
Speaker 1
A baby hungry. Your husband.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, you know, I realized men have a biological clock too. So so I said, okay. Fine. Fine. And I said, you know, that means I'll be pregnant during the summertime here. And I said, every ounce of it, you're gonna get it. You're gonna get it. You're still gonna get it too. So I I had a relatively good pregnancy with him. I did have, like, one bout of major morning sickness that turned into, like it was like, I think I got food poisoning induced morning sickness. And then after that, I never had any other issues. Again, nothing after that. So that was pretty cool. Of course, it was hot as hell, big as hell. You know? Just well, you know, my feet are swelling like sweet potatoes. But, you know, everything is fine, and I decided I was like, okay. Well, we have decent insurance. I'm gonna go to this midwife, this this practicing group of midwives that's in a hospital and let the insurance deal with that. So the best of both worlds. I get there, and I'm starting to feel the red flags again. Like, I there's, like, maybe six of them. I don't get to see the same one. Mhmm. I'm I'm kinda feeling this one. Definitely not feeling this one. I'm telling this one how I feel. She's telling me, no. That's not how it feels. And I'm like, no. No. No. So I'm like, okay. Let's just let's just try to ride this out. And then we get to the, glucose test, and that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And I'm like, okay. So last time, I did my own monitoring. I did my own finger pricking. You know, it it my everything. And so they're like, okay. Well, you have to take the googly gop in this bottle. And I'm like, what is that? Like, we don't what is in here? And they can't tell me what's in there. They don't know what the ingredients are. And I'm like, you're gonna also tell me that there's not an alternative test, which I know you can. I hear a lot of people the point is you need to have the same amount of sugar in your system for this one. No. We don't offer any alternative test. We don't offer any and and I didn't I got and I think this is my age in coming to maturity. I'm not here to educate you sometimes. I don't give a shit anymore. I just don't need to do this anymore. Totally. Before, I would have been like x y z. And and I'm just like, okay. Alright. So then they called me and, like, okay. We need to do another. I'm like, you know what? My new midwife will be requesting from you. I didn't even I didn't even care anymore. And then I at this point, though, I am, like, twenty seven weeks, and I'm like, okay. Well, what the hell am I gonna do? Like, I gotta try to find a midwife. And so at that time, I decided to do, a hypnobirthing refresher class with my first doula. Because my first doula, she was awesome. She wound up coming to the hospital with me the next day and all that with Kamaria. But, I found out that she currently was pregnant too. We were basically around the same, time. And, when she came to the house, I was like, oh, you're pregnant? You know? I was like, so what are you guys gonna do? Who is your midwife? And she's like, you know what? I'm just like me and I forgot her husband's name. We're just gonna do this ourselves. And I was like, what do you mean you're gonna do this yourself? So she she's like, oh, me and my husband are just gonna do it ourselves. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And she's like, oh, yeah. There's, like, a lot of people who do it. And, you know, in all fairness, I remember one time being on Facebook, and I asked I just sent out a message saying, does anybody have a a recommend a a midwife? Like, have any midwives recommendation. And I knew one woman, and I thought it was facetious. She's like, what do you need a midwife? I had both my sons at home by myself. Me and my husband just pulled it up. And I was just I just wanted to roll my eyes at heart. I'm like, bitch, please. Ain't nobody gonna do all that. But now I understand what she means. So, so yeah. So I was like, oh, okay. So she had sent me information on, some women who did consultations on things like that, but they didn't get back in time. They didn't get back in touch with me in a timely fashion. So then I said, okay. Well, what does it mean to have a unassisted birth? And so I was fortunate to find this really well done Kindle book on this woman who had a unassisted birth. And it was very, like, plain Jane, cut to the point, this is what she did and how she applied for the birth certificate afterwards, blah blah blah. And then she, you know, she had multiple children. And I was like, okay. That was my first foray. And then I was like, okay. Let me continue to to do some information. And at this point, I think I had my a conversation with my husband, and I said, listen. I think I'm gonna do this by myself. And that's when he was just like, what? I'm like, yeah. I think I could do this on my own. He's like, I'm not a midwife. And I was like, you know what? You're not a midwife, and that's a good question. So what does that mean? That's when I started doing research, and I came across the Free Birth Society and Indie Birth and a few other people, and I reached out to you for, consultation. Mhmm. And, you know, the the consultation and and going back and doing some research, and then we had a follow-up. And, basically, what I was able to walk away with a very sound understanding is that as what was presented with my first birth, that if these potential situations presented themselves during the labor or after the labor, my midwife would have to transfer me to the hospital. Mhmm. She would have to call nine one one. And I'm like, well, what why am I paying you all that much money for you to simply do the same thing to call nine one one Yeah.
Speaker 1
For us
Speaker 2
to have to you know? Like, I came to the realization that, you know, outside of also, I was very fortunate of finding someone to hold first base with me who also truly believed in the power of birth and and and being able to do this on your own. But in the event these situations presented itself, this is what you do. And so when I, you know, look back on his birth, I realized my what I was really confronting was fear. So what happened was after, like, around twenty seven, twenty eight weeks, I made the decision to do, a a free birth unassisted at home, and I decided not to tell anybody. I didn't and I told them. Me. Except for except for you. My husband kinda knew because I thought I might have to just fake, like, spontaneously. I remember that.
Speaker 1
You, like, you, like, you didn't super tell him your plan.
Speaker 2
No. I didn't because my husband is super analytical, and it's not his fault. But he was asking questions that I did not have answers to. And at this point, it was kind of like, just believe the process and believe me. Sometimes that's not good enough for certain people. And, you know you know, I I am I had this baby in my life, you know, the the life of the baby in my hand, and I just walk away saying, okay. Believe you? Like, he's like, okay. I need a little bit more. What, you know, what is x, y, and z? What is so I I did give him some paperwork to re you know, he, you know, was under the impression, like, you know, similarly to what happened last time, what you need to do to be there to help me. So the day that the baby actually came, I remember about three days beforehand, I was laying kind of like in a vertical I was laying on my back, but I was, propped up. And I guess now what happened was his head went into, like, the birth canal, like, really, like, first, second degree Mhmm. Because I felt, like, the a bump against my cervix. It was like, boom. I was like, oh, what is that? Mhmm. And, at that point, I was still taking my daughter to school. We were everything was still normal. And I realized that we in America put so much emphasis on the labor, on the pregnancy, and we never focused on the fourth trimester. And I was very grateful of listening to the free birth cast, and you had Kimberly Johnson on there. And I so I got that book, and I devoured it. I absolutely loved it, and I recommend it to everyone the fourth trimester because that's really what how we go south. You go as we say, go from sugar to shit like that because that fourth trimester can really kick your ass. And, it for me, at that point, I was so comfortable knowing what my birth was gonna be like. I just I just start focusing on the fourth trimester. Mhmm. So I just focused on, okay, what what is it gonna look like? Who's gonna come to help me? You know? I didn't even think about, like, the labor and stuff. So the day he comes, I'm at, like, the I'm getting my daughter's lunch ready, and I feel a surge. And I have to kinda, like, say, you know, I have to focus. I have to breathe in. I have to do some deep you know, just mental focusing on that to work its way through. And my husband said, okay. I think the baby might be coming. And so we thought, given what happened with Kamaria, it definitely was gonna be, like, that Friday or the weekend. So I Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 1
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 2
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 1
Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait time?
Speaker 2
I did. That's right. I forgot. So I had
Speaker 1
like maybe I introduced you guys.
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, actually, so what happened was I had a doula in the beginning. Very sweet girl. I had a doula. And what happened was after I devoured all of this, like, free birth doula, radical doula, I was like, this woman is not up to par. And it was like, I felt so bad because she's so sweet, but I was like, I I need a doula who truly understands this where I'm going now. Like, we I need someone who's comfortable in in a not a hospital at a home setting, yet alone there's not gonna be a midwife there. And so, you know, there was no hard feelings because, obviously, she respects the mother's wishes. But I think it does say something for her. If you are a doula, all of your experience is only in a hospital. You know? I mean, it's it everybody has their work, but I feel like you need to be a little bit more, your exposure, to birthing needs to be all the in between. Hospital, home, midwife, no midwife, OB. Like, you should you to have a better experience to help a mom. So what happened was, yes, you sent out a call asking, like, is anybody, you know, available to to hold space for a mom in in in in the the Houston area. And, yeah. And so what happened is, she reached out to me, and, she's an absolutely amazing, doula. And, also, she's pregnant now, and she's asked me to hold her space for her. So I'm like
Speaker 1
That's so sweet. And how is she birthing?
Speaker 2
She so she's gonna do, like, what I'm doing. She's got a OB and then just, oh my god. Spontaneous.
Speaker 1
Oh my gosh. Okay.
Speaker 2
That's how it happens. So so yeah. So so I I wind up meeting with her. And so one thing is that, you know, my husband, you know, I met let you know, he had to meet with her because he had a lot of questions, and he wanted to know what this looked like. And he needed to feel comfortable too. And he did because she's awesome, and he just was like, you know what? I think you are in good hands. We can do this. Like, I can walk away saying that my wife, Sabali, is with her, and this is gonna be a good situation. So the morning of, you know, I just had a a major surge. It was only that one surge. That was my first time experiencing a surge like that because every other time, you know, I just drink some water because I was like, oh, I'm just slightly dehydrated. So my husband takes the the kiddo off to school. I meet with my doula. She comes in. We're just sitting, talking, having a good time, drinking tea. And she asked me if, you know, could she give me a massage because I was experiencing, significant swelling on my feet. And then she's like, you know, oh, and I could do some, like, acupressure for, like, you know, labor. And we're just I I told her yes. And I'm like, sure. You know, you could try whatever you want. It's fine. So she leaves. I then made myself, like, a nice lunch, and I'm eating my lunch. And I get on the phone. I'm talking to my sister-in-law. And at this point, I'm like, okay. Well, I can't it's you know, I gotta get ready to go pick up my daughter. It's about, like, two fifteen, two twenty, and I feel like another surge. And I told my sister-in-law, I'm gonna have to call you back. I'm like, I really need to call you back. So I'm like, oh my goodness. Like, you know, am I, you know, feeling indigestion? Do I have to go to the restroom? Like, what's going on? And at two thirty one, I called my husband at work, and I said, you know what? I don't think I could pick up Kamaria today. I the way I feel, I just don't feel right being on the road. And, like, if I have a surge, I'll have to, like, pull over. Because at this point, the surges are, like, what, one every five hours, but they were pretty intense. So I'm just like, okay. Let's just not why why take a chance? You know? The baby's probably gonna come, like, on Friday or something. Why why take my chance? So I, no. You know, I said, okay. So I get off the phone with my husband, and it's, like, you know, two forty. And I said, okay. You know what? I'm gonna go take a shower, and I'm going to call my doula back because she was off that day, and she doesn't live very far. And I was saying, I'm gonna take a shower. I'm gonna see if she can come back and simply just, like, give me a brief massage. So I get in the shower, and I text her. And I was like, hey. Do you think you can be back in a little while? I think, you know, I I think I just need, like, some back massages. I'm a take a nap. And she's like, okay. Sure. So I get in the shower, and then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, wait a minute. That's, like, a sizable surge, and that's when, like, I'm feeling my body finally starting to dilate. I could feel the dilation. And that was the part that was so cool that I didn't get to experience any of that because I was so in my head last time and all that crazy shit. But this time, I literally I could feel my cervix pulling, and it's like every time it pulls, like, more bloody show is coming down. It's like Wow. Pop pop pop pop. Pop pop. I'm like, oh my goodness. I cannot believe this. And so that was, like, so cool. I did that for about a good maybe ten, fifteen minutes because at this point, I realized, like, I had to get out of the shower and go to the front door to open the front door for for my doula. So I I get out the shower. I walk you know, I hobble over there, open the door, and and then we're walking our way back. And she's like, I have another surge in the living room, and then we make our way back to the shower. So finally, she's, like, looking at me, and she's like, yeah. I think I'm gonna set up your your birth supply. So, you know, she pulls out all the stuff, and I'm just, like, in the shower. Then I get out of the shower, and I'm just, like, laying over the shower. And I feel that it was, like, maybe five surges. And, of course, this time, I said, I will not be pushing. I do not believe in pushing. This baby knows how to come on his or her own. And that's exactly what happened. Like, she she one thing that I was very grateful for was the counter pressure that she put she did on the small of my back. That made it so manageable. It was just like, you know, it wasn't that big of a deal at that point. I I again, I feel like it was maybe five times I had that experience, and then, like, she could see the head. He was coming down, and he was in call. So I I reached down to and I could feel the stack. I could feel his little head in the stack. And the last surge felt like it took, like, forever because I was just I was kinda squatted, and I was just waiting and waiting and waiting. So then finally, the last surge came, and when he came with that, that was kind of, like, a sizable one. And then he he he when he came out, he hit hit the floor or whatnot. Like, you know, I I was I would and I still hit the floor, but he was, like, maybe two inches above the floor from where we were. And, that's when it the sack actually popped or whatnot, and he was all crying. But it was just amazing. It truly was an amazing, amazing experience, and I loved. And then after that, I guess I had experienced early in the pregnancy some type of sub hemorrhage something or some type of, technical term. And so when, I I thought the placenta came out, it was actually, like, some of the, I guess, the tissue mass from the hemorrhage came out. But other than that, I think maybe I birthed the placenta twenty minutes afterwards. And so here I am. I'm holding him. He latches on immediately. He let us know that he was here. He was not happy. And, like, that's when I can hear my husband's truck rolling, and he told, you know, my daughter, it's like, the baby's coming. Because, again, we thought, like, with Kamaria's birth, this was gonna take a while. And he, like, walks in and he sees us in the bathroom. Oh
Speaker 1
my god.
Speaker 2
Yeah. He's like, what's going on? And I'm like and I show him he's like, the baby is here? Oh my
Speaker 1
I never realized this whole time of eight months. I never realized he wasn't there for the birth.
Speaker 2
Yeah. No. He was at work because we really looked like because I you know? Because it had I called him at, like, noon to say, oh, no. It's going down. You need to be here. He would have left work and all that stuff. But we really was just like like, oh, yeah. It's probably gonna be Thursday night or Friday Mhmm. Or something like that. It literally was like, what, forty five minutes. Because I called him at two thirty one. They came in at, like, three thirty five, and I was already holding the baby nurse.
Speaker 1
Oh my goodness. Oh, and thank god your doula made it.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she was I I feel like now I'm like, maybe that acupressure she was doing really kinda set things in motion. But, but, yeah, it was just like I was able to just, like, let my body just work. Like, I didn't really need to do anything. I didn't need to Other than that's why I did the hypnobirthing because, you know, when you're having that sensation, it can be alarming. And so, therefore, you don't want just the fear to set in, and then now you're kinda scared for what I just wanted to allow my body to do its thing and not let my mind get all in it because I know what happens when my mind gets all in it. And, that yeah. So that's kind of how it worked. It was, and it was really, really wonderful. And, that's why I'm like, maybe I wanna do this again. And so I, you know, I don't really go around telling too many people about it because I don't think a lot of people even understand, like, what do you mean you didn't go to the hospital? What do you mean you didn't have a midwife? That's some you know, I I was there too. It's kind of hard to wrap your brain around it. You know? It's so unfortunate in this society. But just even f even now. So because of this, and I had told you, I had launched my own prenatal village here. And so I've had some women that have come in that I've talked to. And just being more of a reference because I think not a lot of women are going to do a unassisted birth. Right. But there's still so much information to glean from unassisted birth that still empowers a regular hospital birth. Totally. You know? So I I've been fortunate to be able to share that story with women and and being able to let them know. And so even with my doula from the first one who did my hypnobirthing refresher class, I recently saw her after all these months. And, you know, I let her know. I was like, you're the reason why I decided that I was gonna do a free birthday. And I also and I realized, like, talking to you, let me also understand. I need to go with my first mind. My first mind told me that I don't need to do this, and I'm not gonna compromise myself. And I'm not gonna compromise for other people's feelings, and that's why I didn't leave I didn't tell my mom. I didn't tell my sister. I didn't tell anybody. You know? And I didn't want to tell people and especially them, and I'd be like, oh, we're gonna be praying for you, and we're gonna I I just I don't need fear projection.
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 2
Like you know? So I I just left it. The only other person outside of it was my, children's pediatrician. I did let them know because I'm very, very good, friends with her, and she also is a believer of a holistic natural approach to things. So I did tell her, like, this is what I'm gonna do. Because I also think from her her perspective as a doctor, she also needs to know that women do this.
Speaker 1
Right.
Speaker 2
Like, you know, like, we're all women do have babies on their own term and on their own account and things like that. And I wind up getting his, you know, birth certificate, like, four months later. And because of it, I really took a very, like, f fuck the system type of approach. Like, why do I need to go do all of this right now? I don't have to do all of this. But they make you feel like you have to get this work done. You have to get this paperwork done, and we need to get this, like, you know, testing done. If my baby if I hold my baby and after a day or two, he was looking bad, he was limp, he wasn't doing x, y, and z, I would have immediately gone to the doctor. Of course. Like, you know? But, Of course. He was perfectly fine. But, you know, sometimes, like, well, you don't know. I think I do know. I I know a little bit more because, you know, at the end of the day, unless it's something drastic, everything else would have been fine. And and he's perfectly he's perfectly fine. And so yeah. We're doing well. So but, yeah, it's so fun. It's so great. It really is. I love telling my birth story to the point where, like, my husband loves telling my birth story for me. And then, like, I walk into the room, and I could tell he's told my birth story because people are looking at me like, oh my goodness. This woman is amazing. You did what? Oh my god.
Speaker 1
That's cute. Yeah. Amazing. So good. I love your story. It's just, you know, it's it's just like, it's it's so powerful. It's so it's so, you know, embodies self authority, and it's so simple.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things where it is so simple. And, you know, I know that for certain women, it's just not gonna be for them, and it it doesn't have to be. But I will say that I think we really need to talk about, like, fear. Like, fear has such a a crippling effect on on so much. And for me, that was this that's what my this free birthing was. Mhmm. I I was free birthing fear. I'm like, get fear out of my life. Wow. And, yeah, once I address that fear, it really broke broke me free from from a lot of things and just being more adamant about my my my life. And, so I'm just I'm very grateful. I'm grateful for the platform that you've created for women. You know, while I decided once I decided to do this, you know, I started listening to the podcast, and I start listening to the women who had all these different types of amazing free unassisted births on their own autonomous birthing. Mhmm. And I'm just like, this is something we can do. Like, if you if you're sick and and you need to you know, if you have a actual medical history, then you need to be smart about it, and you need to go to the doctor, and you need to get yourself monitored. But for a lot of women who are truly healthy and nothing's wrong, there's no reason you need to be running back and forth to to an OB to manage your birth. There's nothing
Speaker 1
Well, yeah. And I mean, I would even add actually that a lot of women that I know, have already been risked out by the system, and and they still wanna have a normal birth. Right? So that that's like the real shit, is that it's up for each woman to decide, how they wanna categorize themselves, you know, like
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I just interviewed a woman today who has tons of health issues, would never be able to find someone, to support her in a normal birth, and she's free birthing.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
Because it's it's up to each one of us to determine our own our own everything, our own assessments of our own, you know, risk calculations.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. But it's just, you know, this this space that we are are going getting into, it could be scary, you know, because, you know, what if God forbid of, like, you're not allowed to, had a have a at home birth or an autonomous birth. I mean, I think from what I understand, they're trying to pass that legislation in this in India and say that you aren't allowed to, birth on your own. And to to think that somebody has to manage this this experience is just so heartbreaking. Again, some women are like, yeah. I don't care. Let let them manage it.
Speaker 1
It's already, yeah, it's already illegal in a couple countries.
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's just insane. But, you know, I also say that, you know, if you wanna do it, you so while I agree with you, Emily, on, like, the woman's autonomy to make that decision, I do feel like you do need to be properly educated simply from the point of growing up in this society, we don't even know our own bodies. So you just need to play if you're gonna say I'm gonna do an autonomous birth, just do the spend the time to educate yourself on what it means to just birth. Right? Like, what your body is.
Speaker 1
Yeah. But, again, I mean, I'm gonna play devil's advocate to say a lot of women. What about the fifteen year old, you know, that burst in the bathroom and didn't even know she was pregnant? Like, you actually don't have to know anything and then you'll still you know, I I've had women on this podcast who very intentionally didn't do research because they wanted to have, they didn't want it to be a heady experience. And, I think that's kind of the point really is that every woman needs to find her own comfort of what of what she needs to to to have in order to feel comfortable. And so, you know, for you, it's whatever amount of research, you know, for another woman, it's it's very little research, you know. So, it's that's really what, to me, is that birth happens. And so if we're choosing an autonomous, you know, self authoritative, you know, taking responsibility birth, then it's up to us to decide what we need in order to create an optimal, container, you know, in our hearts, minds, and spirits. And and what's so fascinating is, through this podcast, I've interviewed women of all walks of life, of all different, you know, countries and different backgrounds, and a lot of women have actually told me, I didn't wanna research. I just wanted to be in my instinct. And the cool thing about birth is that it will happen regardless of what you know in your head.
Speaker 2
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Right? And so, even someone not knowing maybe all the stuff that you or I know, that doesn't equal that they would ignore an obvious complication or that they would ignore, you know, birth is an an an instinctual thing. Right? So we don't actually, you know, arguably have to know everything to, still know how to respond in instinct.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Absolutely. I I so I do I definitely definitely agree with you on that because I know depending on certain it's kind of like what I was saying earlier with my husband where he had certain questions, and I'm like, I just can't answer that. I just know. Mhmm. That's the best that's the best answer that I can give you. I just just know.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
Yeah. But I I I agree I agree with that with, just being able to empower the women with birth. Like, I mean, I wonder what that really looks like. Like, if we were truly empowering women in everything, yet on their own terms and especially with birth, what that would really look like, and what type of families and communities and society would would look like from that.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think something that we can do in the women listening to this podcast is is not putting our own the you know, not putting the stuff that we needed to do to get comfortable with it on anyone else. Right?
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
You know, so even that, you know, just for us to decenter ourselves in other people's lives and, you know, center the woman always in her own life. And when we do that, I mean, we can just do that with our friends. Right? And that's something that has taken me a long time to learn how to do and it's not how we're raised and and we're just we're obviously so raised to be like just clouded in judgment and and, you know, projection. And, when we don't do that and when we look at the sisters in our lives, and and see them in their power and see them in their self authority and believe that they know best, even if they don't know they do, you know, that will be reflected to them.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. And and if that was a a perspective that we all like like you said, like, if we all just had that perspective in this general society that even women who may not feel that way, they would know that they felt supported in the decisions that they made and could reach out easily.
Speaker 1
Well, not we can do that. You know? We can do that as as our small communities, and and it's contagious. And your story and sharing your story is a huge part of that because so many women are gonna hear this and relate to it. And, you know, I know so many women that have been abandoned by their midwives and doulas, in labor. You know, it's just heartbreaking and how that, you know, informed your your next pregnancy and the choices you made so that you didn't have that experience again and and that you gave birth, you know, on your terms and your power, and then you did. Right? So what a beautiful example.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Exactly. And I did I did it ex I mean, it I wouldn't change anything. Mhmm. It was just so quick. Now I would say as I was in it, I was like, I can manage this. I'm like, but I don't know if I can do this for seven hours, but I can manage this.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Of course.
Speaker 2
Well But thank Yeah. It was great. Thanks.
Speaker 1
Thank you so much. I'm happy we were able to do this. It was a long time in the making and came at the perfect time. And It really did. Thank you
Speaker 2
so much. Again, just Emily, I just wanna say from my heart, thank you for being the warrior goddess you are and and providing the space and and fighting for the space to to for us to continue to utilize the space. And and just I just send you so much love and strength and energy your way for continuing to fight for us.
Speaker 1
Thank you. It's it's really felt, and I love having you in our community. And and, yeah, we just gotta keep on keeping on. We're doing it.
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you.
Speaker 1
I'm very inspired by you. Thanks. That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots of love.
