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Welcome to the Free Birth Podcast, a supportive space for people who are learning, exploring, and celebrating their autonomous choices in child childbirth. Together, we'll unpack truths, share personal stories, and claim our ability to birth freely and intuitively. Here's your host, Emilee
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Saldaya.
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There are lots of different ways to interact with free birth society and our work in the world. We have our flagship course, the complete guide to free birth, which is an incredible online course jam packed with everything we think one
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would want to know to feel confident to birth in
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their power. We also recently released a companion course full of meditations, sacred rituals, and journaling prompts to support in releasing fear and tuning in to your ancient womb wisdom. We, of course, have our private membership if you're looking for a community of like minded, radical, and wild women, and you can apply for that on our website. We offer personalized one on one transformational coaching with the focus on learning the tools to move out of victim consciousness and into self responsibility, which is, quite frankly, freedom. And it's worth mentioning that if you've been drooling over our mother loving retreat in Dominican Republic this coming February, we do have a few spots left open, and you should totally come join us in a magical week in paradise. Find out more about all of this on our website, free birth society dot com. Enough women in my life have made the point to tell me how Rochelle and I were destined to be friends and that we were kindred sisters who shared a mission. So I reached out to her and asked her to be on the podcast. This is our first ever conversation, and not only do we discover our connection, but I soak in the deep well of wisdom. An authentic midwife with a commitment to truth and spirit, Rachel completely blew me away.
Speaker 1
So my name is Rochelle Garcia Soliga, and, yeah, we live in Taos. We've been here for three years. We live on land and we homestead and we homeschool. My daughter's gonna be nine this year. And I'm not going to birth right now. It was funny because for the first time the other day in a really, really, really long time, I had this, like, feeling of I kinda wanna go back to going to birth. I really have not had that feeling in a long time. So it was interesting to track, and I think a big part of where that feeling came from was we met up with this really sweet group in New Mexico called Sembrando Semillas, and it's families who farm and grow food and have acequias, which is like the traditional irrigation systems here. Mhmm. And they're teaching their children about how to do the same. And so we met up with this group, and there's this older man there who lives in Albuquerque and has been farming, growing food his whole life. And he he is seventy five, somewhere around there. And I got to talking with him because someone told him that I was a midwife, and he was like, you know what my dream is? And I was like, what? And he's like, my dream has always been to have a sanctuary for pregnant women. I might cry when I say this. It's so good. So that they can come here and give birth in little casitas, and then and then they can stay here for the first five years of their children's life and grow the food here and eat the food, and we can all be together. And it was just such a precious conversation. This is something that I was telling you, like, why I love New Mexico. His grandmother was a midwife. So this man is seventy five and his grandmother was a midwife and he told me about how when he was born, he was born really prematurely and so what they did when he wasn't on his mother is they would put him inside of the ordinal, like the ordinals are like the traditional ovens, like the outdoor ovens where you would bake bread, and they used it kind of like an incubator.
Speaker 2
Woah. That's so smart.
Speaker 1
Totally. So anyways, it was like after talking with him, like, came back the spark of, wow. Like, I would like to start going to births again. Not right now, but, like, sometime in the time to come. And I realized that a big part of, like, why that, why that spark hadn't been there is because of the climate of attending births in the United States. And I lived in Mexico for a long time. And I know from my lived from my embodied experience what it feels like to attend births outside of an entire system that is demonizing and attacking you. Like, I have that experience, and I also have the experience of what it feels like to work with families who don't have an expectation that the midwife is somehow in control of destiny, or is somehow in control of life. Like, the the felt experience of what does it feel like when everybody actually believes in God or spirit or whatever word we wanna give it, and we're all coming together in this configuration, to to, like, live in love, but not that someone is dished over a full responsibility. And so the the feeling came from, like, wow, what would that feel like, and is that possible for me to attend births again in this country, in this climate, in that way, you know? So, anyways, I'm not going to burst. Yes. It is possible. Totally. So
Speaker 2
That's beautiful. Yeah. I so so resonate with that. And and so give us a little context for your midwifery journey, and then I think because I bet I'm imagining when we get to your work today, there's gonna be plenty to talk about with your postpartum focus. So, give us some context of what your midwifery journey was like, up until you you, you know, stopped attending and and perhaps some more information on why you stopped attending. Mhmm. Because as I understand it, you're a CPM, like you said, which is just a certification that you maintain, and you you have not chosen licensure.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. So I started I got into midwifery when I was twenty two. I was, like, really politically active in my late teens and early twenties. Like, I was the one with the bullhorn kind of thing. Hell yeah. Like, leading Okay.
Speaker 2
I'm already in love with you.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Like, leading, dying to block off street intersections and stuff. And then and then at some point when I was twenty two, I was like, I don't really think I wanna spend my life fighting against something that I don't believe in. I just saw a lot of hypocrisy within activist movement. I saw, a lot of sickness. I just I I just got this download at that time of, like, this is not what I wanna spend my life doing. And probably, like, within, like, a month of me having that understanding, I met this woman who she was actually a Chicana studies professor at my university. I went to Santa Barbara University, and she was telling me how in the nineteen nineties in California, there had been this law passed that denied health care to quote, unquote illegal immigrants. Right? So all of a sudden, all of the Mexican people in, you know, in California couldn't go to doctors, couldn't birth in the hospital. So their response was to create birth circles and to, like, remember, reteach midwifery, and they're like, well, we'll just give birth at home then.
Speaker 2
Right. It's gonna happen one way or another, so we're
Speaker 1
gonna even figure
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it out.
Speaker 1
Exactly. And when she said the word midwife, it was like I had never even heard that word. I grew up in LA. I grew up a really, like, urban life, and I had not even ever heard the word midwife to this point in my life. And when she said that, it was like all these things clipped, and I was like, that's that's what I'm doing. And then literally within a week or two after that, I had a friend who was having her second baby, and she was like, I know that I just met you, but I feel really good with you, and will you come to my birth? And I was like and her birth was gonna be in, like, three weeks. You know, it was, like, happening really soon. And I was like, okay. And so then I went to her birth, and I was like, okay. It's just confirmed. Like Oh, I I went to her birth and I and I had so much expectation build up around it. And then when I was there, it was like the most normal feeling in my life. It wasn't that it was so beautiful and, you know, it was just this neutrality that I experienced. And then I sold all of my belongings pretty much and went to Mexico. And I studied a lot with midwives in Mexico. I worked in birth centers. I worked with home birth midwives. And and probably in my entire time apprenticing to midwifery, I probably worked with, like, seventeen different midwives in Mexico and in the United States. And the one home birth midwife that I worked with in the United States was a midwife from Kentucky. I lived in Massachusetts for a time, so she was from Kentucky, but she had moved to Massachusetts. And in Kentucky, I I'm pretty sure that it still is at at this time it was. It was a felony to do midwifery. Right? So her understanding of midwifery, I'm so grateful that she was, like, my main home birth preceptor because everything was normal for her because she had learned from a midwife where everything was normal because you don't wanna go to the hospital and you're you're doing everything that you can to protect yourselves and protect your family and protect your babies. So, like, for her, you know, both of her babies were born at forty four weeks gestation. So from, like, the beginning, you know, that was what she thought was normal. She's like, you know, range of normal for gestation is, like, you know, thirty six to forty four weeks. And I was like, okay. And this just became my baseline of normal. Someone's water breaks, just, you know, keep everything clean and keep fluids going and someone's water could be broken for a month, and for her that was normal. So, like, I just learned this baseline of normal from her. And, you know, but what I do wanna say, and I feel like it's important for people who, like, are coming into birth work or just in life is, like, everything of my work, like, started with a prayer, with an intention. And my prayer was always to to understand and to learn about midwifery and integrity with the roots of what midwifery is. And so I I know that she was brought into my life as an answer to that prayer, you know. So I worked with all these different midwives, but I never had, you know, this kind of idealistic, mentorship kind of relationship. I mean, this midwife I worked with was such a beautiful person, but, like, in one year, we went to four births, you know, and I was like, I'm gonna be, like, eighty five if I keep apprenticing with her, you know, and so that's why I didn't continue on that. But and I work with a lot of midwives that I I was not at all aligned with, and that gave me really great examples of what the hell I didn't want to do. Totally. But in my midwifery, like, I always had my midwifery world, but I also have elders. And my elders, you know, like, in the places where we wish we're getting spiritual teachings or downloads from midwives, I wasn't. I did not have those kind of midwives, like, in my path of, like, I wanna emulate her spiritual wisdom. I did not have that experience, but my elders were kind of able to fill in those gaps. And I told you this in the beginning that, like, foundationally, like, how I learned in terms of supporting someone in prayer and ceremony, which is a transference to life is you just support people how they wanna be supported for themselves. Like, that's just It's really simple. It's really simple. And it and but the way that that was transmitted to me was like a spiritual teaching, like, you don't you don't offer to someone, you don't do something for someone, you don't get involved in someone's path in a way that they don't want it for themselves because then you're, like, actually assuming a level of responsibility, of spiritual responsibility for that person. And that's where things get so entangled, and so you just have to know baseline, like, how does someone want it for themselves, and then you support them in that. And so, like, in a ceremonial context, it it's like you listen to what the person is praying for themselves, and then you support that prayer. You're not, like, super imposing what you want for that person onto their life because it's their life. And so that was always the baseline for me. So, you know, we were talking about all the legalities around licensure and like this, and it's like, I really stay out of politics a lot. In the sense of these things to me are so beyond politics. These are spiritual teachings that most of us never received. And the problem with the modern world that we're living in is that, many of us grow older without maturing. You know, we grow older without coming into eldership because we never received right information. So foundationally, like, beyond politics, the deeper level of it is just how to be in right relationship with life. Mhmm. You know? So that's kind of what has always informed my midwifery practice. So I did all those apprenticeships and then and then I was living in Mexico again. I I finished, like, it was my declaration to the universe of, like, I'm done apprenticing because I was, like, done with crazy midwives, really. I was done with the imbalance, ways of being with women that I was witnessing and I was, like, I don't know if I know enough. I don't know. I don't know, but I'm just done apprenticing. And then I had people in the local community where we live start asking me to be their midwife, and I would, like, try to talk people out of it. I was like, you really don't want me to be your midwife. And they would be like, no. We really want you to
Speaker 2
be our midwife. Don't superimpose your own agenda.
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And I
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would be like, no. You really don't want me. And they would be like That's so sweet. We really want you to be our midwife. And then I would talk to my adopted dad, like, my adopted dad through spiritual adoption, and he would be like, if you have people asking you Right. To be their midwife yeah. Then then fear is fine. Like, fear is always gonna be there with you and let fear be there with you, but, like, don't let doubt be there with you and take that as the call. And I was like, okay. So I started going to birth on my own, and it wasn't like I felt ready or something. It was just that ago was this? This was I was in my late twenties, so I'm gonna be forty this month.
Speaker 2
So Oh. Yeah. Congratulations.
Speaker 1
Thank you. So this is I was in my late twenties, and we were in this small mountain town in Mexico. And so, you know, these the the closest hospital is, like, a three hour drive. Right? And it's not like the United States where you're gonna call nine one one and have a air helicopter come in, you know. And these people were like, yeah. We're we're clear. Like, this is what I want. And it was like, okay. And so those are the folks who really kind of then continued to shape me, you know, of, like, they were just clear on how they wanted it and, like, they would tell me what they wanted me to do and then I would just do it. Awesome.
Speaker 2
You know? That is so nice to hear.
Speaker 1
It's kind of like this really innocent I mean, I still feel like that when I when I come into contact with the ways that people relate in the world of midwifery, it, like, it makes me sad. I mean, it it it could piss me off too, but I'm like, there there's the transference of the wisdom Mhmm. Has been interrupted in a profound way, you know. So people would ask me to do things, and I'm like, I you know, I've never done that before. Like, I started having families ask or tell me that they wanted to give birth in the sweat lodge. Right? Like, my husband and I, we we run sweat together, and they would say, like, okay. We wanna give birth in there, and I would be like, okay. Well, I've never done that before, and so then it was just figuring it out. And the sweat lodge is actually a traditional birth house. I mean, that's one of the original purposes of it because it's it's a womb. It's the womb of mother earth. It's dark. It's private. You keep it warm. You don't have to worry about cold drafts. It's the perfect environment, actually. I just hadn't ever done that before, but people started asking me and I was like, okay.
Speaker 2
But wait. Sorry. Forgive my ignorance, but not with, like, it actually being that hot. Right?
Speaker 1
No. No. Not like a sweat lodge how it smells horrible. No. No. No. It's not like that because you you the sweat lodge, you know, in the United States, it's it's often seen within this only one way of doing things. In Mexico, the temazcal, it's called, is used for a million things including pregnancy care, including birth, including postpartum. And so it's just warm. It's, like, pleasantly warm so that the mom can be naked and feel comfortable. And that when the baby's born, you're not having to think about blankets and think about, you know, all this stuff. It's it's a a huge womb that you're in. So you keep it in that kind of a warm temperature.
Speaker 2
I love that. So, of course, you were like, okay.
Speaker 1
And Yeah. I was like, okay. And then figure, like, figuring it, like, the logistics of it. Like, what okay. How does this look? And then just do it, you know.
Speaker 2
Well, it it sounds you know, this was a beautiful explanation of authentic midwifery, You know, this is Yolanda, my partner, and I talk a lot about authentic midwifery, and, and how how rare it's become in our spheres, you know, from the stories that we gather, and and certainly the births as a as a doula that I witnessed, I I don't know that I could ever really say I witnessed what I would now describe as authentic midwifery, because of this constant centering of the midwife that in a way, arguably, perhaps, it it's believed that it has to happen Mhmm. When you have to be so self protective and you have to manage your relationship with the local OB and, you know, all of the politics that go into, birthing with midwives in the system versus what you just described, traditional midwifery, authentic midwifery of being, you know, coming in servitude, but also with great wisdom, you know, and that's where I think people have a hard time kinda wrapping their heads around, like, so I just show up like I'm not an authority? Like, what if something, you know, this whole just long cascade of of confusion that happens? I think you just did such a beautiful job of of articulating what we talk about a lot. So that's really nice to hear. So you're attending births, the community is calling you, this is just happening, and then at what point, you said you moved to Taos about three years ago or something?
Speaker 1
Well, so then, I mean, we did immigration paperwork because my husband's from Mexico and we did that pretty ignorantly slash innocently. Well, we just didn't know. Right? And that's like a whole crazy thing that I had no idea about. So You're American. I'm I'm from this country. Yeah. And he's from Mexico. And and there's just so much involved in that. I mean, so much time, so much money, so much resource, so much everything. And and it took us three years, and we didn't start the process because we were like, we really wanna go live in the United States. We just wanted to have the option, and we didn't have the option before because as a Mexican person, unless you can prove that you have a ton of money and you pay taxes and you own property, you can't even come to the United States to visit. So we just started the process because we wanted to create options for ourselves. And and the configuration of things was that we ended up getting, these visas that we applied for after three years in the process. I mean, we met a lot of families along the way who had been in the process for, like, ten years and fifteen years and just crazy stuff. And we we got the visas and we were like, woah. And then they say, okay. Here's your visas and you have to move within ninety days. Otherwise, it all expires. And we were like, oh, this is the ignorant innocent part. And we lived in a small community in Mexico. We grew all of our own food. We had clean water. And then I'm entering my third trimester of pregnancy, and we're like, okay. And we lived on three hundred dollars a month because we lived a really simple life. And so then then it's like me, my third trimester self, my husband, and my stepson, and we're like, okay, we're gonna go to the United States. And we we literally had fifty dollars. Right? And and what we ended up doing was we ended up living with my parents in LA. And and it was, like, in this kind of, again, like, innocent slash ignorant way of being. It's like instead of looking at reality as it is, like, looking at reality, like, how I want reality to be. And it was like, we'll go live with my parents, and then I can just, like, nest because I just wanted to, like, nest and be taken care of. And, anyways, it was not that kind of reality, though. So we were in LA for my last trimester and for, like, the first seven months of my daughter's life, and it was, like, figuring out, like, how to do this whole thing of familyhood in the United States. And we scraped together money, and we're like, we have to get out of here. And we ended up going to Southern Oregon, and we were in Southern Oregon. The my thought at the time was, like, I'll join midwifery practices. Right? And that's what we'll, like, do to support our family and like that. Anyways, so we did we moved to Southern Oregon for that purpose. There was a midwife who I met there, and she wanted someone in her practice. And we lived in Ashland. It's, like, very small. Like, okay, we can handle this as, like, a new family, a newly immigrated family, like and there were so many things. And so I started going to births again with my daughter and my husband because they would come and, like, sleep in the car because I didn't want I didn't want to, like, leave my baby to go take care of other mothers and babies. Right? And so, like, if it was nighttime, they would, like, sleep in the car, and then I would run out and nurse or they would put a tent in someone's yard. And we probably went to, like, five births like this. And it was so stressful. I mean, when we lived in Mexico, like, I didn't have a cell phone. I didn't it there was no notion of, like, you're on call because you're just living your life, and everybody knows where to find you. So I didn't have to, like, think or alter my life and people would just come find me, you know. And then all of a sudden, like, I have a cell phone and then I had to learn about texting and I have to sleep with this cell phone next to my head. I mean, all of these adjustments that were just not part of my reality. And And you're a new mom. And I'm a new mom, and I have a date. And my nervous system is, like, from being on call, like, as a new mom. What? Then and then I didn't enjoy the midwifery part at all because it was not midwifery in the way that, like, I understood midwifery. And it not only was it belittling to the mothers, but it was belittling to me. Mhmm. And and so I just felt like I'm not doing this. Like, I'm not I'm not this is not how I know midwifery. This is not the way that I want to be with midwifery. And so at that point, I was just like, I'm just not doing this. And so then I just stayed home with my daughter until she was three and a half. And then through then that time, I was like, okay. I'm ready to go back back out into the world, and then through, you know, how so many different things came together. When I went back out into the world, it was coming out, doing, like, hands on, hands in care for women. So I started to do intravaginal work, and I started to do, like, external uterine treatments that ended up transferring into postpartum care because there was all these complications that women were having in their bodies Yeah. That were the results that I was putting it together of lack of postpartum care. So Of course. Then I developed a whole practice out of that, and I had my own, like, hands on practice in Ashland. And then from there came the postpartum focus piece.
Speaker 2
So you were attending birth in in Mexico in this really authentic way. Go to LA, have your baby, pretty quickly go to Southern Oregon, try out midwifery there, but it's whack. You're like, no way. Build the postpartum care, setup, and then you move to Taos Mhmm.
Speaker 1
A couple years later? We moved to Taos in two thousand and sixteen because we never really liked Oregon when we were there, but at that point, my stepson was in high school, and we felt like we had moved him so many times that it just felt like what was best for him at that point was to let him finish out high school, so we did. And then at that kind of around that time was, like, when my class started to take off. And then it was like, okay. Like, he's done with high school. He wants to stay here. Like, now we have this means to leave here by. And so we did. So we put everything in the car, and we traveled, for the summer and checked out a bunch of places. And for us, New Mexico feels, like, really the only place that we would wanna live in this country because it feels like we're not in this country. But with the benefits, like I was saying, of, like, the post office and the public library, like, those kinds of things that I actually really appreciate about being in this country. And so here we are. Here we are for now.
Speaker 2
And I'm getting the feeling that you're intentionally avoiding using the term America or United States. Do you not do you not say those words?
Speaker 1
I do. I mean, I just feel like my life experience has been, like, am I American? I mean, I def I was born in this country. I grew up in this country, but, like, I feel such not a resonance with this place that it feels like it's not my Mhmm. My thing, you know? Yeah. So I just don't that's just not how I think of things. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And so you come to Taos and you just how do you how do you restart serving your community there? What is that like to integrate into this new community, and and what has that look like for you?
Speaker 1
So, I mean, my, like, my postpartum care work then developed into the class, into the training that I teach. And Which is in person and online?
Speaker 2
Or Yeah.
Speaker 1
Which is in person and online. Okay. And so, like, when I teach online, it's like a sick it takes six months to get through all the information. When I teach in person, it's like an intensive for five days from, like, nine in the morning till six at night. And and my class I mean, I feel like the way that I think about my work is like this living entity, and I kind of, like, take care of it. You know? And it just kind of, like, tells me, like, what what I need to do. And, like, the what I'm tracking in it is, like, it's wanting expansion. Like, not in this, like, capitalistic kind of way, but, like, there's this growth that's happening with it. You know? Like, it's wanting to go out in further reaches, and so I'm not really doing hands on care right now. Like, I don't have time, essentially, because all of my work is going to working with students, like, mentorship calls with students, teaching online, developing curriculum, I mean, all that it takes to do what I'm doing. So, for me, I got to a point with the hands on work that it's, like, it's so important, and and there's aspects of it that I totally love. But, like, we're in a crisis. We're, like, in a state of emergency. And if I do, like, this one on one thing versus, like, what I'm doing, it's like their reach becomes so much smaller, and it's not that I think that work is any less important. I feel like it's equally as important, but I can only choose what I can do with my Totally. Of energy. Right?
Speaker 2
Well, and you being the teacher that is mentoring many, many, many lights in the world to serve their community is is it's a numbers game, really. It's
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally.
Speaker 2
Okay. And so, I'm I'm really wanting if you're willing to to ask about your birth experience.
Speaker 1
Yep. Who can talk to? My birth experience was, a very intense initiation into so many things, into so many things because, you know, like I said, like, there's this real innocence of me, like, of my spirit and who I am as a midwife, and I have that expectation that, others are gonna be like that, you know. And so for our birth, we were in LA. And when we lived in Mexico, I mean, I hadn't really even been thinking so much about, like, how
Speaker 2
am I gonna do this or who's gonna be
Speaker 1
my midwife? It was like I did my own prenatal care and I had a lot of midwife friends, and so when we would see them, like, they would do prenatal care for me. And I just kind of thought, well, when it gets to be time for birth, like, I'll just ask one of them to be there. You know? It wasn't like a a thing. And then all of a sudden, we're in LA, and we're in my parents' home, and I knew, like, there was no in hell I wanted to give birth in my parents' home. I mean, like, I love them, but, like, I don't I don't have that kind of relationship with them, you know, in terms of vulnerability and exposure and and naturalness. It's not my family is not like that. So and then and then we're in LA, and so I'm like, well, are there midwives in LA? I mean, I'm so not tapped into the United States reality and the way that midwifery works and stuff. So then my husband and I were like, well, we should just I guess we'll meet some midwives in LA and vibe it out. So we met a handful of midwives in LA and it was so uncomfortable. And I just remember looking at him and he looked like so uncomfortable, like he looked like he was being interrogated or something. Oh, I know. And I was like, what the hell? And so it was just, like, so confusing is really what it was. I'm like, I I didn't know what to do. We we had so little resource. Right? We moved to the country with fifty dollars.
Speaker 2
Right. And midwives are, like, four to five thousand.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so we're, like
Speaker 2
What year is this?
Speaker 1
So my daughter was born in two thousand and ten. Okay. And and I'm, like, this is not like, there's not a midwife here in LA. Now I know some people in LA. I'm, like, okay. If I had to, like, do a redo, like, I know who I could go to. But at this time, I'm like, I cannot have a midwife in LA. Like, I am not finding that person who is gonna be at our birth. And, like, for sure, look at my husband. You know? It was horrible. Yeah. And, I mean, my husband, like, you know, his mom birthed them all at home. Like, he comes from that. It's so it wasn't about that. And he goes to birth Totally. Yeah. It's just like the whole environment was so uncomfortable.
Speaker 2
And the whole concept of hiring a stranger is weird.
Speaker 1
Yeah. It is. Totally. And yeah. The whole thing. And then and then, like, the way that they were asking me questions, I felt like I was being interrogated, you know? And I was like You were. Yeah. Like, why is this person who I don't know, like, ask asking me these really personal questions and then they felt like
Speaker 2
And not just, like, loving you. Totally. Yeah.
Speaker 1
So with the whole thing was awkward. Right? But I I didn't have this, like, language and understanding to, like, talk about it in the way now. It was just, like, weird. It was just weird. It was being in it and not having the outside perspective. It was just being in it.
Speaker 2
Oh my god. Okay. So what did you do?
Speaker 1
So so then I was like, well, what can we do? So then, you know, I had worked with so many different midwives and clinics and blah blah blah. And there had been a midwife who I had vibed with, okay, at a time when I worked in one of the clinics in El Paso, Texas. Mhmm. So the clinic that I worked in in El Paso, Texas has since closed down. It was pretty horrendous in terms of midwifery care, like, really violent, abusive, like, gross. And this woman who I had met within that setting, you know, now in retrospect, it's like, well, compared to what was happening there, she was amazing. She was like this lightworker. So, you know, in this state of being, I was like, well, maybe she can come out. She lived in Colorado, her kids were older, and she had the means to leave her family for a couple weeks at a time. And she was like, I'll come out, you know, and go to your birth. And I was like, well, great.
Speaker 2
Just because she liked you?
Speaker 1
Well, we I mean, we were gonna pay her, like, my parents helped us come up with the money and I told her that we needed the midwife and she knew me and so, yeah, it was like she liked me and, like, we're paying her and Okay. Whatever. So, anyways, we set it up with my friend who lives down in Trabuco Canyon, right, like, in Mission Viejo, California, that we're gonna go to her house to birth. This is the setup. I go to pick this midwife up off the airplane, and when she came into my presence, I was like Oh, no. Not right. No. Not right. And I could feel it. Flew there. And she just flew there. And we have no money, and my parents are paying for this. It's so entangled and enmeshed and dysfunctional. Ugh. It's like all of the family stuff is, like, coming up through the pregnancy. Right? So and I'm like, oh, fuck. Because here I am and I have no resources of my own with my newly immigrated family and I I I I can't handle being in her presence. And then then when she's in my presence with my husband, she's like, it's very belittling. It's not at all comfortable. And then I had a dream one night, and the dream was was like in my dream, I'm like in the pushing stage of labor, and I was completely in this altered state. And because I was in such an altered state, I didn't even realize that someone was, like, giving me orders from the outside. And and kind of when I tuned in to what was happening, I I saw this person here, and I realized that they were, like, telling me what to do. And once I saw them and tuned into them in my dream in my dream, I told them, get the fuck out of here. I screamed at them, and then they left. And then when I birthed my baby, it was like I didn't have to push. I just breathed my baby out, and I lifted her up, and it was a little girl. And then I was given her name in my dream. And so then fast forward to labor, I had a four day labor. My baby was totally posterior. Like, I felt like I had a knife in my back the whole time. Brutal. And mostly, what was most important is the fact that I allowed this woman to come into my space, like, knowing from the beginning. And it was bad. It was really bad, you know. And it wasn't just me. It was, like, the what was going on for my husband during labor, what was going on for my friend whose home we were at, and the energetics of my labor felt like a spiritual war. Like, I felt like I had to protect myself and so did my husband. Like, my husband fell asleep at some point on the couch and took a nap, and he said he remembers waking up and he saw this midwife, like, throw an arrowhead at his chest. So he too felt like he was in this protective mode the whole time. And so, you know, there's so many things I could say now in retrospect. Right? Like, now retrospect, I'm nine years out from that and nine years older and nine years wiser and and chiseled from that experience and from motherhood. But when I was in it, in that vulnerable state of being and, like, the intense level of pain that I had going on, it was like, do I kick this woman out of my space? Do I kick her out, which is what I wanted to do, or do I have her stay? Because I I started to get into fear, right, because it's just all the old stuff shifting up. So I didn't kick her out. I called another midwife in who I had met through my CPM certification stuff, and I loved her. She came in. She has, like, ten kids, and she's one of those midwives who just, like, had such a beautiful presence. And she's, like, came and she came. Oh. And I mean and I didn't, you know, there was, like, I didn't pay her. I just called her. I was, like, I'm fucking having such a hard time getting a pen. And she came and she just sat with me and she's, like, honey, I'm gonna sit with you till you have your baby in your arms. Good. Totally. And so, like, and but it was, like, so late. Like, I'm into, like, going into the fourth night of labor when she comes. And and at some point in labor, I, like, go into the bathroom because I I it was so long, and I was, like, I get why women would wanna die in labor. Like, I get it,
Speaker 3
you know. Totally.
Speaker 1
And I get it. Like, this is why you wanna die. I mean, they're gonna go absolutely insane or I'm gonna die. And I was like, I just want all these people to get the fuck out of my space, but it was like, I had no language at this point. I was just, like, in in my thing. And so I went the underworld. Yeah. I went into the bathroom. In my body, what I was doing was, like, I was going to escape everyone. And I got into the shower, and I was just, like, in the dark, and I just needed to be alone because it was so overwhelming. And that midwife who I couldn't stand followed me in there. And I got to this place inside of myself where I was like, that's enough. That's enough. I got like this. And then right when I got there, it's like my baby's heart tones went down to forty, and they weren't recovering. And we kept trying to do all of these things, and they weren't she was not getting back up above forty beats per minute. And this is one of those things that in retrospect, if I would have kicked everybody out, what I feel confident in happening is, like, none of that actually would have been like that, but I didn't. And to me, you know, when we talk about all of our stuff comes up in labor, it's like really what's coming up in labor is, like, the way that our nervous systems have been patterned in relationship to our own upbringings, and my patterning is going into freeze. I went into freeze mode, you know. I just shut down is what I did. And And
Speaker 2
it was the midwife that you that was disrupting you who was also taking heart tones?
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Well, everybody took heart tones. The other midwife took heart tones. I mean, I took heart tones, you know. And we waited, you know, even we were doing things and waiting, and they just her heart tones weren't recovering. And I feel like I also got into this place inside of me, like, that was enough. Like, whatever that configuration was that was happening at that home, like, I couldn't do that anymore. And and this is how it transpired. And so we ended up transferring to a hospital in Mission Viejo, and I have no prenatal paperwork, right, because I do all of my own prenatal paperwork, so I was treated like, you know, a horrible, negligent mother. Yeah. And her heart tones weren't recovering in the hospital, so I had a c section Oh. Birth. And and then when she was born, I mean, she had passed all of her meconium in utero, and she was born, like, with very low heart tones and no breath at all. So Oh. She was intubated and ended up going to the NICU. And it really like, the whole thing of it was like a manifestation of, like, a worst nightmare. I mean, every aspect, you know, the way the the who the freaking Obi was who did the surgery. I mean, she was like a creature from the underworld. She was like cross eyed, and she came and she told me, your baby has I u g r. Okay. While I'm while I can't move on the table and I tell my husband go with her and I'm in this place by myself, totally vulnerable, Your baby has I u g r and she doesn't know who the hell I am and that I even know what that means and I'm like, no, she doesn't. And so then she's looking at me, well, how do I know that? You know? Yeah.
Speaker 2
You stupid little woman.
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I'm like, no, she doesn't. And then I'm like, I better just, like, focus and pray because my body is open, and I'm, like, actually dependent upon these people. So I'm not engaging with them until I'm out of here. You know? And the whole bit. And then, you know, because we didn't have prenatal paperwork, it was like they sent in a social worker, then we're in the NICU. I mean, I was like, what NICU. I mean, I was like, what what then whose life is this? Like Wow. Whose life am I am I playing out here? You know? And and like that. So we were in there for, like, three or three days, something like this. And that was how birth unfolded, you know? And that that midwife, she, like, left. And at some point in time, I got three months postpartum. I wrote her a letter and, you know, it was, like, very short. I was, like, midwife is to be with woman, you know. This is not midwifery. This is not midwifery. I don't know what you think you're doing, and it's not like I blame her. Like, oh, I have this experience because of her. Like, I don't believe that. You know? But I could I mean, I could have had the same experience, but you can still be loving in the experience. You know? And I told her, do not do not try to reach out to me again. Do not talk to me. I'm not trying to have a conversation with you. There's no conversation to be had. And I just left it like that. And then, you know, like, did my own processing do my own processing around that because I feel like that's a lifetime of of unraveling of what that is. And I've gotten a lot of information from it, you know. It's like there was a there was a lot of wisdom to be harvested in that experience for sure, you know. And that's how birth was. That's how birth was. And What a crazy year you had. Oh my god. Yeah. Crazy fucking years. Right. And and then just trying to, like, come into a sense of self after that because in Mexico, you know, I was a midwife and we ran Senorani and we had a whole ceremonial community and we lived on Sundance grounds and then here we are in LA. Oh. We know no one. We know no one. Okay. With your parents. With my parents. We have no money. Oh. And so then I it's like, who
Speaker 2
am I? Totally. Stripped of everything.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Who am I? Where the fuck am I? Like, how is this my life? What? What? Yeah. All of it. You know? So it was it was massive. Like, not just for me, for my husband too.
Speaker 2
A nurse. Wow. And then just rebuild over the next decade and
Speaker 1
yep. Wow. Did not see that story going there. Yeah. Me either. I mean, you know, and and it's one of those things, like, I had so many dreams leading up to birth, you know, and they were all kind of informing me. Like, in in a dream, like, my daughter's heart tones had bottomed out, and in a dream, there is that disruptive presence. And once I told it to get out, then I was fine. You know? And and I feel, like, in retrospect, if I would have told her to get out, then I would have been fine. Not to say that labor would have been easy or any less painful or anything like that, but, I feel like it was a a choice point, you know, like a choice point in destiny or whatever where we wanna give it, and and that's how it went down.
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, and like you said, that your nervous system is coming to yeah. Has that pattern and, you know, and how we how we pull drama to us in all these different ways. Like, I I I had a fifty two hour labor in around forty eight. Everything was totally fine. Mhmm. And I decided I was free birthing, and I decided I probably have a swollen cervix.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
I just made it up. Didn't have one, and I transferred myself to the hospital. Mhmm. And, they, you know, I asked for an exam, went through the whole rigmarole because I don't I didn't have prenatal care either. And, and then, you know, I got really lucky with the staff and and was somehow able to really navigate the war of being there in transition, as it turns out. And and I I did go home, while I was pushing and had the baby at home, but had, you know, a good hour and a half thereof, you know, and then coming home being like, okay. That's a lot to process later because I did that to myself. Like, I did not need did not need to just, like, create this whole dramas thing in my birth where I pathologize, you know, what was happening. Totally different, of course. Mhmm. Wow. So many lessons. So much to unpack. Wow. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
Well, thank
Speaker 2
you for sharing that. It's a really powerful story.
Speaker 1
Totally.
Speaker 2
Man, like the fucking underworld. Yep. The cross eyed OB. Totally.
Speaker 1
No. Yeah. For real. Uh-huh. Wow. And so many, I mean, so many terrible things that were said. I mean, I don't even repeat it often because it's like, I just, you know, I get back to thinking, like, I can't believe that people are like that, you know. I mean, at one point I don't ever go to hospitals or have this kind of stuff. And at one point, like, I felt really weird. Like, my husband had left with the baby, and I felt like like like this all of a sudden. And I looked to the woman next to me who was, like, the anesthesiologist, and I was like, I feel really weird. And she was like, well, I just gave you an injection of something because your blood pressure was going low, but she didn't tell me. So then I'm having this response that I can feel, and I I grabbed onto her hand because I was so freaked out, and I had sent my husband with our baby. Right? Because then you have to choose. You're like, do I want support or should you know? And I'm like, go. Because I was like then mama bear mode and just go fucking with her. And the woman, she hits my hand and she she says, don't touch me. And I was like, okay. And I was like then I got really clear about where I was. I was like, I just need to, like, really focus. I just really need to focus to get myself out of here.
Speaker 2
Holy fuck. I mean, that is hell.
Speaker 1
That is hell.
Speaker 2
Being being in the presence of other women who are so abusive and shut down that you're not even able to grab a hand. I mean, that really encapsulates the fifteen years of witnessing hospital birth, you know, in my life of just women abusing women, of course, men too, obviously. And and and same with licensed midwives, you
Speaker 1
know, the the I do know. Fear
Speaker 2
yeah. The fear mongering and the sabotage and, you know, these women, midwives that I would know on a personal level, who I do know on a personal level, that somehow believe they're going to be able to be the one unicorn midwife that is a totally licensed in the system midwife that doesn't sabotage birth or abuse women, you're fucking kidding yourself.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
It's so painful.
Speaker 1
Mhmm. Wow. Okay. Mhmm. So I mean, it's like the hierarchical model of care. Right? It's like it's it's a top down model of care that that doesn't work, and it doesn't work on a fundamental level because anytime there's hierarchy in our care, it throws off our nervous system. And when our nervous system is thrown off and we go into a stress response, it affects all of our biological functionings. And so just as a baseline, I mean, that should be, like, day one of any kind of medical midwifery, whatever. Like, hierarchical care, top down care, authoritative care doesn't work. It can't work with our physiologic design because it disrupts it.
Speaker 2
It it it I guess it doesn't work if your goal is to serve women.
Speaker 1
It doesn't work if your goal is for health and wellness. For health and wellness. But but, you know Right. If you're not if That does work pretty darn well. Yeah. You know? Right. And so right. So then that paints the picture clear. It's like if your goal is to create sickness and disease, then the hierarchical model functions perfectly. It is a fucking spot on plan, okay, if we get down into it. The development of how, care is, quote, unquote, it is a perfectly designed plan to support dysfunction and disease. Yes. And dependency. Independency. Yeah.
Speaker 2
Like the Stockholm Syndrome of abusing a woman in the system, having her believe the lie, you know, that she needed all of the abuse and sabotage and intervention she got, so then surely she will return. You know, because they saved her, you know, the the classic narrative. Right. Yeah. And I think the pain the pain the one of the most painful spots for me in my life right now is witnessing women who believe that they are going to be any different in authoritative care.
Speaker 1
Like them in that position. Yes. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2
And it's maddening. It's like they totally missed the point. Mhmm. But they don't know that they've missed the point because they and and and really what it is is I know a lot of young midwives who haven't done it yet for five, ten, fifteen years.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And so it's still really easy to be like, no, no, yeah, I'm totally not gonna, you know, do active third stage management and sabotage, you know, the the sacred, you know, three foot halo. I'm totally not gonna do that, you know. Well, okay. Let's talk in a year after you've, you know, worked at this birth center for a year, worked at, you know, whatever, this practice. I think that that's the painful, you know, and kind of back to a lot of the themes of what you brought up, like, it's painful to me and it's not my business. It's not my spiritual journey to get involved with that, you know, and and my job is to be in my business and to hold my space, and and to take from that that I'm not doing that, and that is obviously the best that I can do is to not engage in the systems that are inherently oppressive and abusive, and so I'm not. And that's been the most profound tilt in my life of, like, notable transition when I left the system. I thought I was working against, but realized I was actually enabling it
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And fully left that and and have gone into the totally uncharted waters
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Of serving women authentically.
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
And it's it's uncharted. No one's I didn't apprentice with anyone to do this stuff. I haven't had anyone show me the way. It's been just kind of bits and pieces of collected wisdom from groups of women and, you know, like you like you've just said so much more poetically than I could of what what authentic being with women looks like, and, yeah, we're really as I've really become this collector of stories, you know, because I do coaching with women and with this podcast, and the the heartache every day of hearing stories of how midwives, women who are claiming that title but not embodying that title, you know, are are genuinely harming women, and women are emerging from their birth experiences feeling less than, and feeling like their midwife, you know, was centered, and their midwife was needed, and their midwife, took something from them. Like, oh my god. Every fucking week, a woman tells me how the midwife caught the baby and she didn't want that. Mhmm. You know, that that I mean, I I know recently, a woman, a member told me she specifically was her third baby, last baby, was very important to her that she caught her own baby, told her midwife that. Midwife said, of course, totally, six thousand dollars, let's go. And then took that moment from her, you know, and that happens all the time. This, like, heroine. Yeah.
Speaker 1
I know. I mean, it it's that the the fundamental, like, the spiritual teachings of midwifery, like, were interrupted. Right? So now there's this it's like a veneer Mhmm. Of midwifery, but without the teaching. And I didn't find anyone to give me those teachings. I already know those things. I actually didn't need somebody to teach me that. I just had to, like, remember who I was. Yeah. Stop looking outside and be like, I don't need somebody to teach me how to be respectful to life.
Speaker 2
Exactly. And the women teach you everything. You know, every birth teaches you how to shut the fuck up. Yeah.
Speaker 1
And I will say that there is something to say about the acknowledgment of the way that our respective lineages have been interrupted in terms of the transmission of midwifery. Because, for example, like, you just said something and it made me think of this thing. So, like, my adopted dad I was adopted in my early twenties, like, in a spiritual way, and my adopted dad was a medicine person, a medicine man. Like, his life was dedicated to ceremony and healing, but, like, in a really traditional sense. And he told me he said, when when for him, when he's running a ceremony, right, because we are positioned in a place of authority. It doesn't mean it has to be a top down authority, but it means that people are looking to you as a living example. And because you're positioned like that, you have a certain responsibility. Yeah. And so he said, me in this position, when I'm running ceremony, he said, I cannot say anything to anyone that's gonna make them feel anything less than who they are. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And and that is not really just about the ceremony. I mean, that's, like, transferred out into life, and it's about when we're in these vulnerable times in life, ceremony and birth and death and and all these times when we are most vulnerable, it is our responsibility just to to make sure. I mean, this this stuff really moves me because
Speaker 1
Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's like the core of what the freaking problem is.
Speaker 1
You know? But this is why for me, it's like a spiritual problem. It's not a political problem. It's a spiritual problem. Because when someone's coming to us in their most vulnerable times and we're positioned as this authority figure because of what we know, because of who we are, we have a responsibility to only exalt that person even if they're in the biggest shithole of their life. It doesn't mean that they're gonna have, like, a beautiful experience necessarily. It doesn't mean that it's gonna be all good, but that we can continue to be the reflection to them of their godliness. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So that when they're in their shithole, they have a thread to cut out on. Exactly. Yeah. And and so I had those teachings, you know, and I could, like, take that and
Speaker 1
have it wake up that memory inside myself and then fuse it together with midwifery. But, like, just people in general on the planet don't have that. Right? They don't have that spiritual maturity and then they don't have that and then it's coupled with them being in some kind of position, and it's totally dysfunctional because when we're in positions of quote, unquote power, it comes with more responsibility. Anytime we have privilege, we have responsibility. The two go hand in hand, you know. And so it's dangerous is what it is. I mean, that's what I wrote to that midwife who was at my birth. I'm like, that's dangerous. Like, you you can we cannot do that. We cannot come into people's spaces in these highly charged, volatile, vulnerable times and do anything else except for reflect, like, the highest form of exaltation of that person. So dangerous and so disrespectful and and so harmful. So I am passionate about that in terms of, like, when I talk to students in the realm of postpartum care, I'm like, this is not to, like, frame you as the expert Right. And then have, like, you telling mothers what to do. Right? This is, like, how to reframe it so that mothers and families are positioned as their own experts, you know. It it's Whether they know it or not. Whether they know it or not. Right? And so then you're we're helping people to remember. That's what it is, you know. And yeah.
Speaker 2
Oh, sister. I see now why everyone said we needed to know each other. I so feel your heart, and it's so so powerful to hear you speak, and and I just resonate with everything you're saying. And it's it's the prayer in my heart, and and it's I've had such a similar, but obviously very different, you know, journey to these same you know, to arrive at these same deep deep knowings and try to actualize it in my life as well. Mhmm.
Speaker 1
I feel like what I feel called to say is just this part. It's like, in order to understand, right, that's like we have to understand, like, how do we get to where we are, you know, and we have to acknowledge, all of us, like, the disruption in our respective lineages and and the collective lineage of humanity in order to create a healing, I feel like, is what is required. And what that requires is for us to do all of us to do our own inner healing work. Right. It's like we all have to be engaged in our respective ancestral healing and then the collective healing in order to be able to understand these kinds of things that we're talking about and apply them to life. Right? Because these are the things that at one point in time were, like, part of the fabric Right. Of all of our cultures and ways of life. And so because they're not, then we have to, like, up level the ante Yep. In terms of what we're doing to take care of ourselves in general and then in these positions of power.
Speaker 2
Right. And hurt people hurt people. Right? So, if we're not doing the work, I mean, I've seen so many midwives go through, you know, what they would experience as a scary birth, and then not do the work, and just basically shit that on to the following next hundred births. Yeah. You know? And and I get it, but how totally irresponsible in these positions, absolutely, of power and of of authority. Yolanda always uses this line, about we always talk about how to be an authority in, but not over. Totally. You know? And it's so ignorant to act like we're not an authority. If somebody is asking you, you know, to be at the birth to be at their birth or to be a part of their postpartum, really for for for any reason, you know, there there is a reason for it and it's often, especially if you're in the birth world, it's obviously because you have wisdom and you have, and you have a knowledge base that that they would find helpful, you know. So, I mean, I know so many birth workers who are like, oh, I don't change the space. I don't take any authority and, you know, nothing changes when I get there. It's like, well, you're totally wrong and how irresponsible to not know because it's not bad. You're being invited there. So so take that, hold that, but there's a way to hold it, like you said, with maturity not in ego and and that's, you know, that's like the sickness that's happened with midwifery because of patriarchal, you know, government mandated capitalistic professionalism. You know, it's been totally just, like you said, interrupted is the perfect word for it because it's it is something that we can and are reclaiming. It it exists. You know, authentic midwifery is in our bones, you know, and it's it's actually, like, the journey inward, not outward to find it. Right? Okay. We have traversed many many lands. Alright. Well, thank you so much for this connection time. I've I enjoyed it even more than I thought I would. Yeah. And, I'm gonna come see you in Taos if I'm invited.
Speaker 3
Yeah. You're totally invited.
Speaker 2
Alright. Anything else you wanna say or share before we close?
Speaker 1
No. I think that was good.
Speaker 2
Well, I guess, for anyone to find you, if you could give people your your info.
Speaker 1
Yes. My website's Innate Traditions, I n n a t e, traditions dot com. And I teach online about once a year because the program runs six months, and then I teach in person. So, like, the next in person class is in Taos, and that's the end of August. And it's always extra special when it happens here because it's happening out of our home. Mhmm. And we make lunches for everyone, and the land in Taos is just amazingly beautiful, so it kind of potentizes everything that's already potent. And we end with ceremony here on the land. We run sweat for everybody as closing. And, you know, we just make it so that we have two hour lunch breaks, and we live just like a mile and a half from the Rio Grande. And so people go down to the river, and they swim on break. And so it's that's like a learning retreat. You know? It's, like, really intensive, but it's, like, living in community as community for those days. And so everyone leaves here with, like, a whole new, package of of information and ways of being and relating with the families and mothers they're working with, but also just, like, really recharged and fused with all of our cells recalibrated.
Speaker 2
That sounds so nice. So people stay in your home?
Speaker 1
They don't stay in our home, but people stay, like, around. Like, we set people up with neighbors, and there's tons of local Airbnbs and like that.
Speaker 2
And you still have some spots available?
Speaker 1
Mhmm.
Speaker 2
Okay.
Speaker 1
Awesome. Eight spaces available. Mhmm. Innate traditions. Yep.
Speaker 2
Awesome. Alright. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 2
That's it for today, everyone. Join us next week for another episode of the free birth podcast. Thanks for joining us, and remember, your body, your choice. Lots
Speaker 1
of love.
