Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild, I'm good. Into the wild, I'm here. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Today on the podcast, we have Jamie, who shares the heartbreaking story of her first two children born in the system, and then the insightful reflections of her experience. Jamie tells us the incredible story of her choice to leave the system and birth in sovereignty, while also navigating her three year old daughter's brain tumor diagnosis and surgery. This is a beautiful tale of a woman finding her voice in her marriage and in her life.
Speaker 3
Alright. Welcome to the show, Jamie. I'm so excited to be doing this.
Speaker 4
Thank you.
Speaker 3
This is a long time coming. I feel like.
Speaker 4
Yeah, really. My sons, I've just turned a year or so. It feels like, you know, just a really great time to sort of close that loop. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So take us take us to wherever you wanna start. This is your third baby. You've had a pretty wild ride over the last couple of years. So take us to, yeah, the start of motherhood for you.
Speaker 4
Okay. So my oldest daughter is almost seven. And when I got pregnant, I was living in Washington, DC, and I was working, in a hospital as an inpatient physical therapist. And one of the incentives that the hospital had for employees was if you birthed there, you would not see a bill. There would it would be free, essentially, anything that insurance didn't cover. And so that was a big incentive for most employees. But at the time, I was, like, kind of, you know, dipping my toes in the water of being, you know, interested in natural birth. And so we sought out some midwives that practiced in a different hospital, and, that felt really edgy for for us at the time. So we would pay the out of network cost, and that was fine. And we actually ended up moving. So we left DC when I was thirty six weeks pregnant, and we moved to Cleveland, Ohio. And, I quickly found a midwife there, and I'd had a couple visits with her. I'd planned to birth in the hospital there with midwives as well. And things were fine. My pregnancy was great. And, at my maybe thirty nine and four day midwifery visit. She's, like, offered to sweep my membranes, and she's like, yeah, I can just tell, like, you're just ready. And I was really open to the suggestion because I was sitting in Cleveland, Ohio, with no family and no friends. And, you know, my husband was at work, and I was just you know, the days were long. And I wanted to hold my baby, so I did the membrane sweep. And I think the next day, I started having contractions.
Speaker 2
And when you're isolated like most women are, this is,
Speaker 3
like, the one woman who's, like, air quotes, caring for you. So to make, what is actually a really manipulative suggestion, but to make it in this, like, you know, kind of feigned allyship, like, you're just really ready. Let me help you. It's so Yeah. It's so gross.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I was thinking a little bit about that. And, like, I think the first pregnancy a woman experiences, it's sort of like that fading out of herself as, like, an individual. And and, you know, people stop really seeing you as a woman, and you would just become, like, this vessel. You know? And so, like, the women in the hospital I worked with would say things like, oh, I can tell you're having a girl because the baby's stealing your beauty. You know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Or Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Or just things that were just, like, you know, people just commenting on your baby or, you know, even grandparents body. Yeah. How's how's my grandbaby? Well, your grandbaby's in my body, and we're both great today. So, yeah, you know, just you become you become this vessel, and you just sort of lose that part of your identity a little bit, or we're conditioned to lose that part of our identity. And so I guess when you have a midwife or an OB who's, you know, their job is to see you every month and and to be kind, you know, that that relationship becomes forged, and I can totally see how women, like, really feel, you know, that sense of, you know, connection or, you know, just desire to be in relationship with with with that person. Mhmm.
Speaker 5
Because they're
Speaker 4
the only ones that are asking about the murder. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Okay. So she sweeps her membranes. Things get started. Sweeps her
Speaker 4
membranes. Yep. Things get started. And early labor was, you know, long and just sort of unfolded over the course of a day or two. And then the second day that evening, it picked up, and, we went into the hospital around eight PM. And I labored through the night. And I was, you know, making very slow progress and it was intense but I was kind of expecting it to be. I wasn't, like, overly vocal or not that that would be a problem but I wasn't really showing any signs of being in distress And then at some point in the early morning, like, maybe three or four AM, the midwives came in and said, we you know, you're falling asleep between contractions, so we're gonna give you a drug called Nubain to help you sleep. It's gonna just help you. And, you know, in that time, like, I hadn't wanted to take any medicine or anything, but, you know, you you just are open to suggestion, I guess, after that point. And so I took the Nubain, and it's basically the the idea is that it gives you about an hour where your contractions continue, but you are basically, like, asleep. And then it wears off, apparently. Wow. So I did that. And the thing that's so confusing is, like, I wasn't complaining about pain. I wasn't in distress. The baby wasn't in distress. I was falling asleep between contractions. So I was already, like, I think that's your body coping well, you know? And when I woke up, I was magically ten centimeters dilated, and they told me I could push, you know, which the suggestion to do that before you're actually doing that is, you know, a big problem. But, you know, once that process got started, I still felt really high. I felt really out of my body still. And when my daughter emerged for, like, a a split second, like, I didn't even care. Mhmm. Like, I just felt so high and out of my body, that I just, like, put my head back, and I was just like, somebody else can hold her. You know? And, like, very quickly, like, cognitively, like, brought myself back into it. But, yeah, that was a bummer. And, you know, the the midwife had also asked if I wanted to see the placenta, and I just said, no. You can just, like, I don't wanna I I just was kind of out of it at that point. And, yeah, just high for and not in a good way. Right. So that was my first daughter's birth. And aside from that, like, I left the hospital feeling really victorious. Like I had this birth. You know, I didn't have an epidural. You know, I I got through it, you know, da da da da. I felt pretty good about it. And then when I got pregnant with my second, you know, we wanted we wanted a more, you know, natural, less interactive experience. And so at that point, we were living in Cleveland. I was about twenty five weeks pregnant, and then we moved again to Dallas, Fort Worth area. And we lived in a hotel for about a month. Yeah. It was it was wild. But we lived in a hotel for about a month, and so it was right around my, like, the start of my third trimester, and I started feeling really itchy. I had been seeing the midwives there. I'd planned to birth in a birth center, and I thought, like, I was allergic to the hotel linens or just, like, the climate change. And then right around thirty eight weeks, I finally got tested and did have intrahepatic cholestasis of pregnancy. So I had ICP, which made it so that I was risked out of birthing at the birth center. And, you know, again, we're in a place we just moved to Dallas. We didn't have any community. And so, you know, at that point, the plan was you've reached out of the birth center, so we will need to induce you. And it was right around the end of December, December twentieth. So they were trying to figure out who would do this because, you know, notoriously, inductions can be long and Christmas was coming, and they wanted to make sure that nobody's holidays were ruined.
Speaker 3
How inconvenient of you Yeah. To to have to get induced.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And, you know, just like the staff was kind of at a bare bones point at that point. And so we went to the hospital we had never been. When we planned to birth at this one birth center, there was a really nice hospital right across the street. But when it came down to it, we found out that that was just the hospital that they used for emergencies, and their births were about an hour and a half away. And so we got to that hospital, the hospital we would birth at, and it didn't have, like, any of the you know, they didn't have telemetry monitoring. The the birth center had only done one other birth there. They had just got got privileges there, and so they were very new in the hospital. And the plan was to break my water, start Pitocin, and start some type of, cervical ripening agents. And, you know, I denied having my waters released and didn't want the cervical ripening agent, so I consented to having the cervical balloon placed. And, you know, I think what I should really say at this point is the days leading up to finding out that I was going to have the induction, were really, really challenging. I had had a few, probably three, membrane sweeps before that, so my cervix was pretty irritated. And, you know, emotionally, like, they kind of held this carrot in front of me that said, like, if you can go into labor on your own before your induction date, then you can birth in the birth center. And so I was doing all this stuff at home to try to do that, just jumping through all these hoops. You know? So, you know, this my cervix was so irritated. I was doing, like, sex and nipple stimulation and clary sage and just all the things, and it just wasn't working. And I was like, the amount of fear that I had in my body at that time is actually hard to even explain. But for me, I just felt like it would be such a loss to to have a c section because my body wasn't given the time to do this process that somebody else had imposed that I do. And just that level of fear of once you get you step onto that hospital ride, it's hard to get off, and you kind of become you know, you become a patient. You become, somebody who has to follow their set of guidelines and policies or else there is there there may be something that they can not necessarily do to you, but it just becomes an environment that isn't really that enjoyable to birth in. You know? It becomes a hostile environment. And so when I we got to the hospital, my husband and I, you know, we checked in. We did all that. And then the midwife came to place the cervical balloon. It was in the evening. I think it was, like, eight or nine o'clock at night, and we were going to stay the night there. And so she got everything set up, and she began to insert the little catheter, to place the balloon. And I started hysterically laughing, like, maniacally, hysterically laughing. And it was just so inappropriate and so, out of character that I feel like anybody who had any, like, knowledge of trauma and, you know, just women's health in general would have been, like, hard stop. Like, this is not normal. Let's let's take a break. But instead, they just said, you know, if we can't do this induction, then this will be counted against you as a failed induction. And, you know, there's there's no opportunity to, you know, do this again. Like, this this has to be done now. Oh my god. It was really manipulative and just really awful. And so she placed the cervical balloon. We stayed in the hospital that night, and, you know, I did what I was instructed to do, which was walk around and try to, use gravity to assist with the cervical balloon, opening my cervix. And in hindsight, that just I mean, I don't think there's been a lot of long term study on cervical balloons. I think a lot of people in the natural birth community are holding them up to be a really great intervention.
Speaker 3
Well, because they're not drugs. Right?
Speaker 4
Because they're not drugs. Yeah. But, I mean, you're basically, like, forcefully prying open Hundred percent. Sacred portal of your body Yeah. And using, like, weight and gravity traction to do it. And so
Speaker 3
And the drugs are coming. Yeah. You know, like it's it's like a bully balloon is this like Yeah. Like illusion of a air quotes natural induction, but Yeah. You know, the system so totally non transparent like a woman come you know, women come in all the time being like, no, I don't want the CytoTech or I don't want the Servedil. And they're like, okay. Well, we have this, like, pretty hands off thing. And it's like, oh, well, that sounds nice. Not knowing that that's not even really the induction yet. Like, Pitocin Yeah. Is the induction. You know, not to say that the other things are not. Obviously, it's all part of it, but,
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 3
It's just pushing off the inevitable drugs.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, at whatever point that evening the the balloon, came out and, you know, then that morning around nine AM, they came to start the Pitocin. And, yeah, I was a wreck. Like, I was a wreck. I bet. And just yeah. It's hard to even talk though now because it's just like, oh my gosh. Like, that level of fear. Mhmm. So, they placed the pitocin. Nothing happened for several hours around three or three thirty. They actually I mean, the only humane thing that they really did at the hospital, is they they disconnected the Pitocin. And they recognized, like, your cells have been flooded with this for hours, and likely the receptor sites are are blocked. And they gave me about forty five minutes off pitocin to walk around, and I actually went outside and and just collect myself. And then they started it again. And then that essentially is allowing the pitocin to come to its half life, which would, you know, make the body more receptive to more Pitocin. And so, you know, after they hooked me back up, then
Speaker 3
That's that's generous that you call that humane.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And, I mean, it it was just like I mean, instead, I guess, the alternative would be just for them to keep ratcheting it up, which I know a lot of people do. And then Oh, yeah. Baby baby ends up in distress, and then it's, you know, the quick c section. Mhmm. I do feel like that was a humane alternative. But, but, yeah, I mean, again, it's I think you've talked about this so many times is it's like we just it's scraps. You know, we're just happy to receive scraps. Yeah. So they started a backup, and then I began having contractions, and I dilated really quickly. I think they started it back at three forty five, and I was complete around six. And at that point, it was shift change, and the midwife that had been with me all day, needed to leave. And the other midwife came on shift, and she was pissed. She was angry that I was still there. She came directly off of a cruise ship from, like, a family vacation. She entered the room and didn't even say hi to me or ask me how I was doing. And with her, a new labor and delivery nurse came on. And so the the midwife that started was the owner of the birth center, and the mid the nurse that came on was an older nurse who had been working in labor and delivery for some time at that hospital, but she continuously commented, I've never seen an unmedicated birth before. And so, you know, she's chatting and asking questions and
Speaker 3
Also, she's not seen an unmedicated birth. Like, you you're getting blasted with Pitocin. Right.
Speaker 4
I think in her mind, it was like
Speaker 3
that's why I'm kind of in the dissonance.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's like when people say
Speaker 3
they had a natural birth,
Speaker 4
and then you find
Speaker 3
out they had an episiotomy and an epidural and Pitocin, and they just mean they didn't have surgery. It's just the the distortion is Yeah. Is mind blowing.
Speaker 4
It's so true. And so the midwife was basically answering all her questions, and it was almost like she was doing a PR job for the birth center because, you know, we just got they just gotten privileges there, and I was just their second birth. And so, you know, I was ten centimeters dilated at this point and, you know, having to have the Pitocin and the continuous monitoring. And, you know, I think with that, it also kind of deserves to be expanded upon is just when people hear that they'll have continuous monitoring, I think they think, well, I can walk around, and I'll just wear those little belly band straps, and that will hold it in place. But what really happens when the baby gets low enough and you're moving around is the monitor loses signal, and so somebody has to hold the little probe on your belly in order to get that signal. And you basically become restrained because they can't get the reading that they feel they need if you're moving around.
Speaker 3
And depending on everything, if you have an annoyed nurse who's busy, there is no one to hold the, you know, the belt on. And so you then air quotes have to be in bed Yeah. So that they can monitor you from the nurse's station.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So my baby was in a position where the you know, they had basically had to be holding it right over my pubic area, really low, like, right above the pubic bone. And it just like, the band can't hold that low. You know? Like, it just wasn't working. And, yeah, and so, she was basically holding it in place and standing over the one side of my bed and having a conversation, a full conversation with my midwife. And, you know, I just at one point, like, I am usually you know, I I've talked a little bit about this with some friends, but, you know, I, yeah, I I had, an up I grew up in a home that had, you know, some violence and abuse. And one of the ways that people who have been abused can stay safe is by endearing themselves to, like, the authority figure or their abusers. Right? So, you know, I always tend to be the person who wants to, you know, have the teacher like them or have my midwife like them might like me because that I know is a strategy that would keep me safe. So for somebody like me or somebody who's been in that position, to speak out and say, you know, please stop talking right now. It's really distracting. It's too much. It's a big risk and feels really scary. But I did, and my basically just said, you know, we need to, you know, ensure that we have a good relationship with this hospital. It's really important to us.
Speaker 3
Wow. There comes the fucking honesty. Like, sweetheart, this is not about you. This is about my job, my business.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It was it and I was just like, oh my god. And so, you know, I at this point, I was ten centimeters. I was instructed to push, and I didn't really have an urge to push, so I was sort of going through the motions. The doctor, the OB GYN, who was overseeing the the midwives was in and out just sort of, like, you know, looking at the clock. And at one point, the midwife said to me, your baby's not being born because you're not trying hard enough. And then she took both of her hands and put them inside my vagina and left them inside and, began pushing down on the floor of my vagina. And I screamed out, like, get your fucking hands out of me. You're hurting me. And my midwife or my doula didn't do anything, and my husband didn't do anything, and the nurse didn't do anything. And, she just kept them there. And I I just had to leave my body. You know? Like, I Totally. I was pushing my baby out. It had it was going on four hours of pushing at that point, and I I know that I was running out of time, you know, their timeline to, you know, what was what was an acceptable amount of time for me to be pushing. And so, yeah, I just I I couldn't I couldn't do anything else, and I just kind of left my body and just, you know, focused on the work, that I had to do. And, yeah, that really sucked. You know, so my baby was born. It was a really tough labor for me. But, you know, once she was in my arms, it you know, my focus was just on her completely, and, you know, I feel really lucky that, we both got through that, you know, with with with just what we came through with. You know? Because I know it could have been worse. It was really bad, but it could have been a lot worse. So, yeah, that was, that was her birth. And then you've talked about this a lot, but kinda shortly after she was born, I jumped into a doula certification training. And one of the first assignments was to, use a birth experience, use your own birth experience, and sort of process it. And so, you know, I shared the part about, you know, me screaming out that I was in pain and asking the midwife to remove her hands, and I said my doula didn't do anything. And my instructor's response back was, do you think that your doula was supposed to be an advocate for you? That's not a doula's job. And so, yeah, I had to, like, revise the assignment, and then I just I couldn't, so I quit the training. So yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I I think that it took us a lot of work together, my husband and I, to to work through that, specifically, you know, me processing what had happened and, you know, just healing from birth and then healing from the trauma of birth.
Speaker 3
And did you feel like, I'm curious of of how it affected your relationship to him.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Right. Yeah. It really took me a long time to be able to touch that part of my pain. Mhmm. And so there was, there was a three and a half year gap between my second and my third, and it wasn't actually I conceived Zev my third in October. And that December, I went to a training with Rochelle for innate traditions. She held a circle during part of the training and opened the circle to anybody who wanted to share about their birth and just any parts that needed to be healed. And I see you know, I think at that point, you know, it had been quite a bit of time. But just, you know, the the pain just came out in such a way, like, I was shaking and crying. I was ten weeks pregnant, and it was the first time I really spoke those words out loud and just said, I'm so hurt that my husband was in a room with me. And, you know, his job was to get help you know, his job is to help keep me safe. Like, that's you know? And so it was, yeah, it was so painful to feel that. And when I came back from the training, you know, we had to face that because it had been unearthed. And, you know, I I really had to push hard and just say, like, what happened? And he just said, you know, I thought that it had to be done. I thought what she was doing had to be done, and I was really scared. And I didn't know any better, And I should have trusted your voice instead of somebody else. And I'm so sorry. And, you know, it was so painful to heal that, you know, so necessary but so painful. You know? And I think that part of reclaiming reclaiming, like, I am the authority. Like, I said no. I am the authority here. And really, really saying it in such a way that, like, we both knew it was true was really the springboard to, being ready to consider free birth. Mhmm. And so, you know, when I began my pregnancy was that was my third. I was working in a birth center. My my physical therapy practice had changed from working in a hospital, and now I was working with pregnant and postpartum women doing pelvic care in my office was in the Burke Center. And so I was attending births with those midwives as a doula. So to rewind, we, we moved. Oh, wow. We left Dallas Fort Worth when my daughter was about, six months old, and we moved to California.
Speaker 3
Okay. And so in California just gonna see how many kids you can have in how many states.
Speaker 4
How many states? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So we moved to California, and then, yeah, a couple years later, I got pregnant with Dev. Okay. And then I was working in that birth center. I was renting office space there, and I'd attended a few births with the midwives there as a doula. And, you know, I they were really, from, you know, my perspective, really respectful of the birthing process. You know, a lot of times, they just sat at the edge of the tub and just watched and didn't give any instructions. They didn't put their hands in the water. They just stayed quiet and just, you know, let it unfold. And that was the type of birth that I felt like I wanted. And so when I got pregnant, you know, my thought was I will birth with these women because I I know them and I trust them. Yeah. I guess at that point, I also started listening to the Free Birth Society podcast, and I just started to want an individualized experience. I wanted to go through pregnancy without I guess, I started to see my body as really sacred, in a way that, like, I didn't want people to be touching me in a way that I you know, to to check on me if I felt I was fine. I didn't want people to be putting their hands on me or or trying to listen to the baby or just doing anything that that I didn't want done. And so I thought Yeah. You know? And just realizing that anytime somebody, you know, came into my space, they were either giving or taking away energy and imprinting, you know, in my energetic field. And it just made me really wanna be selective about who I was allowing in my space. My hope was that I could work with these midwives, but skip all of the prenatal ritual of, you know, what we now call prenatal care. I didn't wanna do any of the weights. I didn't wanna do any of the testing. I just wanted to meet with women once a month and have a conversation about how I was feeling emotionally and how I felt the pregnancy was going and ask questions if I had any and then leave. And then when it came time for, you know, my birthing day, I just wanted to have a woman be present and just, you know, be a witness and then just use her if I needed her. And I think I thought I could have that individualized experience because I knew these women, and they knew me. Yeah. I that just isn't possible. The midwives are just so heavily regulated, and they've really just put so much of their, you know, they've leveraged a lot to be able to be, licensed, you know, and to have that education that they've worked for that, you know, they're not really willing to risk, you know, losing their license to allow for somebody to have an individualized experience. And so my thought
Speaker 3
was It's not where their priority is. Right?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of there's a lot of fear, I think, but it's also just yeah. I mean, I I know that they have to just they have to make a living. They
Speaker 3
Well, they choose this.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's part of it too is just that, you know, they maybe thought that they were getting into something and that it might be different. And then when you kind of get deep enough in, you realize you're you're too far along to turn back. And And
Speaker 3
it's a really different paradigm. I think that a lot of midwives are like, okay. It's it sucks, but I'm just gonna serve who I can, and that's still better than Yeah. Not being an option. But Yeah. It's it's a totally different perspective because, okay, what about all the women you're leaving out and all the women you're pushing even deeper into the system that aren't actually based on individual, you know, presentation or or the mother. Like, it's such a lie. It's such a lie that this medical midwifery centers the mother. Like, if if you had a birth where your midwife where you felt like your licensed midwife center centered you, you just got lucky. You just had a pretty straightforward birth and
Speaker 2
you probably went along with
Speaker 3
all the industrial testing and screening, you know, and this whole thing is so political and it's so, you know, there's it's so complex with the with the licensure. I mean, California is where I'm most familiar of, like, the the pressure on a birth center midwife to navigate the relationship with the fuck up. And when I say fuck up, I mean, you can't do anything that the hospital's not, like, cool with because you you rely on them for your business to stay open. So it's such a it's such a lie. It's it's a it's a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I I really I feel like you really touched on it there where it's just like they they maintaining the relationship with the transfer hospital, and the, you know, the medical authority that oversees them is just, yeah, it it really Most important. It's yeah. It's it's a lot. So,
Speaker 3
I mean your midwife literally said it to you. How crazy. I mean, I appreciate her transparency. But
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So I scheduled my first prenatal around seventeen weeks, and I my plan was just to go in and just, you know, talk to them and be upfront and just say, I don't wanna do any of this stuff. You know me. You know, I I'm ready to take responsibility here, and these are the things that, you know, I will accept, and this is what I don't want. And, you know, can we work together? And I got to the appointment and was given the intake form, and then the intake form was a form basically outlining that I would consent to any blood draws at any point or else risk being dropped as a client. So, basically, they they can do that test whenever they want. And if I didn't want them to, then they wouldn't have to offer me care anymore, which was just, like, okay. That's and and then having to sign that. And when it was my turn to go back to the room, the medical assistant giving me the vaginal swab to swab my vagina for chlamydia and pee in a cup. And I'm just thinking, I'm it's me. Like, I work with you guys. Like, you know me. Like, why do I have to do these things? Yeah. Before I could even talk to the midwife to to tell her what I'm done with and what I'm, you know, I'm willing to consent to. And so that first visit, you know, I really wanted to just see, you know, to talk about it because I had come from my previous pregnancy, which was a high risk pregnancy, you know, quote unquote with the ICP. And there was a lot of fear still that that would repeat and that I would have another experience with that in this third pregnancy. And so, you know, having a relationship with midwives to have, you know, testing or treatment if I needed it felt important. And it just felt really violating to have to, like, sign away some of my rights and autonomy just to be able to get into the door to see this woman. And so, yeah, the appointment was pretty straightforward. I think, basically, what I said at that point was just, like, I I just basically I I want a birth I or I want a labor at home and basically just show up here when I'm pushing. And I don't even want to come to any prenatal appointments, you know that I don't have to come to and I if if I have some concerns about icp like I I would love to have your support if I need support around that And, yeah, it just kind of became clear that that wasn't gonna be possible. The midwife that I saw was actually really amazing. She said, Jamie, like, you don't need to treat your body as if it is, that you have to be concerned about it now when you're not even having symptoms. Like, you don't you don't need to act like, that's gonna happen again. And so I don't know. That was just sort of something I needed to hear, I guess. I I hadn't really ever considered that I could just carry on and make a choice to get treatment if I, you know, started having symptoms again. And so when she said that, I was like, oh, yeah. That duh. Like, of course. And so we left that appointment, and I think in between that appointment and the next appointment, we basically had just decided, this is not gonna work. And, you know, I don't want to I don't wanna be going to appointments. I don't want people to be touching me. I don't want to have to, you know, be constantly in a state of, like, explaining my choices. I just want to do this alone and, you know, just in a way that really felt good.
Speaker 3
Well, you didn't wanna do it alone. You wanted to do it with beautiful sisters, but that wasn't available. Right. Right? Right.
Speaker 4
And yeah. And I I guess I thought that I could be the exception because they knew me, which is just yeah. I mean, it's it's naive, I guess. So, yeah. So we I came to the next appointment, and I basically just we told her that we're gonna just have a home birth. And we didn't feel the need to explain any further, you know, that it was not gonna be attended by anybody else. And, really, I wouldn't have felt comfortable telling them anyways because, you know, I wanted at that point, like, I wanted to be protecting my own energetic space and just didn't wanna hold anybody else's fear. So we went to that next appointment, and then we, didn't go back. And yeah. And then just pregnancy was really beautiful. So, yeah, the my pregnancy just became really beautiful and really enjoyable. I decided that I was gonna close my physical therapy practice at the birth center, just because by nature of that work, I was being exposed to a lot of other women's stories about their birth injuries. And I just kind of knew that it was time to make space for myself and that it wasn't probably that great to be holding those stories as I was preparing to work again. And so, yeah, right around the time where I closed my practice and just sort of started to shift my energy towards caring for myself, you know, and nourishing this pregnancy. My second daughter, Lizzie, started having neurological symptoms, and so she I think, like, they started out just, she would lose her balance and start vomiting. And it was always sort of tied to her having, like, a virus. So the first couple of times it happened, I took her to the emergency room, because she couldn't stand and was throwing up. And they sent us home. They just said it was viral. Don't worry about it. The next day, the same thing. And then a month later, another episode. So, you know, I had taken her in through three three times, and each time, it was basically a doctor just telling me, like, no, this is fine. Like, you're you know, I know you read some stuff on Google, but, you know, this is this is normal for children and, you know, just that sense of, like, something I knew something was wrong.
Speaker 3
Just wanna go away. Normal.
Speaker 4
Right. I mean, honestly, though, Emilee, like, nothing would have prepared me for the amount of gaslighting I would receive as a mother.
Speaker 3
Oh my god.
Speaker 4
You know, just people not believing mothers. Nothing would have prepared me for this. But so that her symptom started in December. And April, after four hospital, like, emergency room visits and doctor's visits, I finally took her back, and I was just I said, I'm not leaving. There's something wrong. I know there's something wrong. And so they finally did a workup, and she had a brain tumor. And, they admitted her to the hospital. They did a brain biopsy. You know, we were there for a week, and I wanted you know, this was April. You know, I I wanted to fall apart, and I wanted to, you know, just fall apart, but I didn't. And instead, I found some strength to create some boundaries for myself that, you know, I my husband's gonna need to stay with her overnight, and I'm gonna need to go home and rest. And
Speaker 3
Right. Because you're pregnant during the
Speaker 4
entire I'm pregnant. I'm pregnant and and really just in my third trimester, very pregnant. And, you know, needing to just, recognize that, like, we were in the system. We were interacting with doctors and, you know, neurosurgeons and neuro oncologists and just doing doing all these things, and then recognizing that, you know, my pregnancy was separate and that, you know, my my daughter, Lizzie, was sick, but I was well. And I was in a state of health, and really getting clear on that differentiation, was sort of the only way that I could go forward. And so, yeah, she we got the diagnosis. We decided to take a trip, to Mexico to celebrate, just our health and our lives. We came back. She had brain surgery May twentieth, and when she was discharged, she was completely dependent. She was three and a half. She needed to be carried. She couldn't walk. She couldn't sit upright. She couldn't go to the bathroom by herself. Just completely dependent. And
Speaker 2
And how pregnant are you at this point?
Speaker 4
So this was May twentieth. My and I gave birth about eight weeks later.
Speaker 3
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So it was it was just so much. But, yeah, we just I mean, that's the only way through it is just to keep going. Right. So, yeah, we leaned into our community, and they really showed up for us and took really good care of us, brought us meals, and, entertained my older daughter and just gave us the space that we needed to help Lizzie heal, and she recovered so beautifully. She's just so resilient and so strong.
Speaker 3
Oh, thank god.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yep. And then, yeah, July, my birthing month came around, and she was mostly back to, you know, her presurgery, you know, level of function. And, yeah, Zev's birth was just so amazing. The rest of my pregnancy, I just felt so healthy and so grateful. Like, we had just been through hell, and it really put things in purchase into perspective just on how grateful and precious life was, grateful we were and precious life was. And, so, yeah, July came around, and we had some friends who were road tripping from Canada. I was an athlete growing up as an internationally ranked ski racer. And my ski coach growing up in Canada was coming through this way on a road trip and asked if they could stay with us. And we you know, I really wanted to see them. And it was, like, right around the fourth of July. And, like, of course, come stay with us. We've got the space. And so him and his partner and his partner's teenage daughter and then their dog all came to stay with us. I think they got here on the the fifth of July, and we, you know, we went to the beach. We went to the pool. We, you know, did whatever. And I was just feeling great. Like, I, you know, it never occurred to me to, like, not have them come because, you know, I guess maybe a little bit of denial, but it just never occurred to me. So on the night of the seventh, my husband and I went to bed, and we, you know, we're sleeping. And then around one thirty in the morning, my husband got up and went down to the kitchen and started making some tea for me and brought it upstairs and woke me up to give it to me. And he's like, yeah. I was like, what's this? He's like, well, you're, like, moaning and having like your I think you're having contractions. And I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 3
So, like, I was kind
Speaker 4
of angry that he woke me up, you know. That's cute. It was so sweet and, like, he was just kinda doing what we had planned to do, which was, like, in labor, he was going to, you know, bring snacks and drinks. Mhmm. And he thought it was go time, and I hadn't really, like, you know, whatever. So, yeah, it was really sweet. So I drank the tea, and I was still just like, okay, I'll drink it. And we laid back down, and then I did start noticing that I was having surges, you know, kind of rhythmically and that they were intense, intensifying. And around three thirty, I think my waters opened. And at that point, we just got out of the bed, and my husband went to the kitchen and just started making some food. And I just started entering that labor land, and it was just oh my gosh. Like, compared to my previous experience, it was just, like, actually the most beautiful thing that's ever happened to me. I I had some women that, you know, I had planned to call and invite over for support and just witnessing. But as it was unfolding, like, I loved being alone. I loved it just being my husband and I. Mhmm. And it just I felt so connected to what was happening and just so good. And I remember just, you know, a wave washing over me, and I I think mostly I just labored in sort of like that wonder woman pose Mhmm. And just feeling like the power, like, roll down from above, you know, down onto my body and then, you know, down through my feet and just, like, that power. Wow. Like, I'm so glad I experienced that in my life. So grateful to have felt birth in that way. And, yeah, it was I mean, it was quick and it was brief. His his birth was just a couple hours, and, you know, I think I maybe labored for about an hour and a half. And then around five thirty or, you know, five forty five or something, I think I got into the tub, and it was just starting to get light out, and everybody was still sleeping. And about twenty minutes later, Sag was born. And, you know, at one point, I reached my hand down into my vagina, and I could feel his head. And I'd never done that before in in my labors. You know, I'd never put my hand on my vulva or in my vagina and just connected with myself and the baby in that way.
Speaker 3
But, no, not with everyone, like, staring at you and being all up in it.
Speaker 4
Right. And, honestly, like, one of the things, like and I haven't heard anybody ever talk about this, but one of the ways that I felt most, alleviated that sensation of, like, burning as the baby, you know, came close to emerging. One of one of the things that felt really good was just rubbing my hand, back and forth over my labia. Mhmm. You know, in between the surges and just that immediately brought comfort and took that stinging sensation away. And nobody had ever told me that. And that, you know, I done doula training and I've been to births and I
Speaker 3
We're not allowed to we're not allowed to talk about touching our vaginas.
Speaker 4
We're not allowed to. Yeah. And and when everybody's around, you're not gonna do it. Yeah. Exactly. But yeah. Like, it took the pain away from me, and it felt so good. And, you know, yeah, it's so effective, so simple. And, yeah. And he he emerged really quickly. There was just a few really strong surges, maybe a handful, four or five, and and he came out. And I think the first surge brought his head, through to his shoulders, and I could feel that there was a cord around his neck, but his shoulders were born. So I I didn't feel any rush. I just felt at ease to just let the next sensation come and birth the rest of his body. And then once he was fully out, I just unwrapped the cord from him and brought him up, and it was just so beautiful. My husband was just like, his response, you know, was just one of the most beautiful things in our marriage just like you did it. I'm so proud of you. And, so I needed, you know or I don't know if he needed, but I had the sense that I should give him a few breaths, and I did. And, that just felt so Your
Speaker 3
husband or the baby?
Speaker 4
Both of us. Yeah.
Speaker 3
I know the baby. So, yeah, I
Speaker 4
just I put my mouth on him and, sucked out a little bit of the mucus and then gave him a few puffs of air. And yeah, and then sent my husband to go get our daughters, and, you know, everybody had stayed sleeping. And the only thing that was I found out after the fact is that my husband had been in and out of the room, and he'd seen Nigel, my my ski coach, our house guest, you know, getting up early and taking the dog out and stuff like that. And Josh saw him and, like, looked him in the eye and said the baby's coming soon. And Nigel didn't know what he was talking about. He just thought that he meant, like, you know, Jamie's close to her due date. Mhmm. And we hadn't talked to our friends about, like, our birth plans because, you know, we just had kept that really private. And so we saw each other, like, once more before that was born and Josh is like, no. The baby is coming, like, imminently. And and it's like, right now, I was just like, we're just like, oh,
Speaker 3
You know, like, we had no idea.
Speaker 4
Like, you know, so so, I mean, I think what I love so much about this story is just like this this teenage girl woke up in this house. Like, we had just really met her, and
Speaker 3
then this woman had her baby. Hell, yeah.
Speaker 4
I'm just like, you know, yeah, birth just happens. You know, life goes on. You know? So, yeah, that I think that's just a funny part of the story. But, yeah, I got out of the tub. We cuddled in bed for a little bit. I think I latched and breastfed him a little bit, and then I could just tell that the placenta was ready to be worn. So I tried to stand up on the side of the bed and sort of do that Captain Morgan thing, and I just couldn't really feel like I had a good connection that way. So I went to the toilet and birthed it into my hand, and then put it into a bowl and brought it over to the bed, and we just stayed there for several hours. Mhmm. And, yeah, I just really I think just not being interrupted in that time was really, like, one of my most cherished, memories about that because in the hospital births that I'd had previously, like, there's just so many things. You know? Like, we just have to take your blood pressure. We just have to take the baby's vitals. Like, you know, we just have to do this. We just have to do that. And just to be able to just integrate in such a sacred way, I I mean, there is no comparison. Yeah. It was just so beautiful. Mhmm. And then, yeah, just part of, like, our birth prep was just that my husband was going to, you know, just provide his support in a way that allowed me to stay in bed and rest.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
And so, yeah, I was able to just stay in bed with Zev for the next six weeks. And, you know, just, yeah, I'm just so grateful for that time. And, yeah, I just I mean, I I would love to birth again. I don't think we'll have another, but I would love to birth again just to experience that power.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
What a freaking ride. Yeah. I know.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And and It was.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And just I told you this prior to the recording, but I'm just so blown away by your clarity and, you know, this situation with your daughter while you're pregnant. I think for a lot of women, they would lean even more into the system and they would lean, like, the the desire to be supported even if it was manipulative. But, like, even, you know, like, even if it wasn't, like, the the cleanest support, I could really understand why going through such a scary time
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
A woman would lean even more into her midwives even if they're not really what she wants, blah blah blah. And Right. That really stands out to me that yeah. Just that that wasn't what you did and that you were finding your clarity in the midst of probably the scariest time of your life.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I think, you know, at one point, I it you know, I reached out to the community in in the free birth group, and I just said I I would really love to to have a woman walk with me in this time. And, you know, my friend, Kristen, she's been on the podcast before. You know, she said I'm here. Like, that's you know, I'm here in any capacity you need, and, you know, she had just given birth recently too. So, it was just really yeah. It was nice to to be surrounded by women, who, you know, could just be in this with me rather than, any type of provider who was limited in how they could really care Mhmm. For for me. So, yeah, it it was great, and I, you know, I I think what I loved is just the part where you take responsibility for yourself. And part of that for me was, you know, being impeccable with how I was, managing, like, my energy. And so, you know, I would walk as much as I could and listen to the podcast, listen to your podcast, and just that was my prenatal care that was being around that story medicine and being outside and breathing air, you know, was one of the primary ways I take care took care of myself, and I loved that part. I cherished that part of my pregnancy so much. Mhmm. I'm just it becomes so polarizing when you see the difference between what is at a hospital, like, there are sick people at a hospital, and, people who need, you know, medical care. And then you can look at yourself as a pregnant woman and just, you know, you can see yourself, in a state of vibrancy. Yeah.
Speaker 3
It's beautiful.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Well, I'm so glad that your daughter is is doing so well, and and I'm just so proud of you. It's such a beautiful story, and we'll have to reshare that that video of you in the tub again. Yeah. Alright. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4
Thanks, Emilee.
Speaker 2
And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching. Learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, The Complete Guide to Free Birth. Don't miss the radical birth keeper school if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise, and the revolution starts inside each of us. Our opening song is by Shyla Rae. And now, I'll leave you with our Freebird Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Redd.
Speaker 5
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding, the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love, everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
