Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild, I'm good. Into the wild, I'm here. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Ashley didn't know anyone who had birthed at home, but after a less than ideal first birth, she knew she wanted to birth at home without medical assistance. This is a beautiful story of a mother staking her claim, doing the work, and learning how to fully trust birth, herself, and her child. Alright. Welcome, Ashley.
Speaker 3
Thank you. Thank you for having me on. It, it's interesting for me to come on here because I haven't really told anybody. I feel like I've done something so special and haven't really told my story to anyone. So I've listened to a billion
Speaker 0
Woah.
Speaker 3
A billion of these podcasts, but, I haven't actually told my story to anyone in my real life aside from, like, my very close friend. I guess, well, there wasn't really much talk about pregnancy and birth my whole life. My one big memory of birth was when my mom, had my brother in my grandmom's bed in Jenkintown, Pennsylvania during the nineteen ninety six blizzard, and it was on the news, like, a news company or, like, a news station came into my grandma's house, and we got to be on the news. And that was, like, my only experience with birth, really, that I remember when it was not really talked about. And so I guess I left with home birth being, like, a newsworthy thing to do, but it was really, I guess. That's cute. And then I met Ryan freshman year of college. So I was eighteen, he was nineteen. And, I sounds crazy, but, like, I know we're gonna be together forever. Like, we just have that kind of connection, and so we knew we were gonna have kids one day. So eight years into our relationship, I was twenty six and we had got done moving around. We were in another country for a while in another state, and we finally made it back to PA and decided it was time to start having babies. So Theo, our firstborn, he was consciously conceived. I just remember, like, sex being different. Like, there was this different energy trying to conceive a baby. It was, like, so different. And then I hadn't heard of free birth at that point. I just kind of want so I did get pregnant the first time that we tried, and I started thinking about how I wanted to birth the baby. The default was the hospital. I don't know anyone who's had a home birth, but I've always had a slight I've always had, like, a very strong, intuitive voice inside me. Like, the only example I can think of with, with this type of stuff is when I was in high school, and all my friends were on birth control. And I just wouldn't do it, and I couldn't tell anybody why. I I just knew a hundred percent it would never happen. I would never consider it, and I didn't had no idea why. I could not logically tell you why. Now I can. But at the time, ten ten plus years ago, I just listened to that voice that was like, no. This isn't for you. So when I was pregnant with Theo, I had that same voice telling me, like, you why would you birth in a hospital? Like, they're that's where sick people go. Like, why don't you want something better? So I started researching online, and I saw birth centers. And it seemed great. Like, there was one down the street from my apartment that was, like, the first accredited birth center in Pennsylvania or something like that. Like, they really marketed their home birth feel, and they were like, don't fall for birth centers in hospitals. They're not real birth centers. Like, we're the real deal. Or maybe, like, some articles were saying, watch out for birth center. I don't know if, like, the birth center I went to was saying that, but, I decided to do my prenatal care there. So, I was a pretty, like, good girl about all of it. I went to appointments when I was expected to. We did the birth center classes that they required us to do. I didn't get any ultrasounds because at some point during that pregnancy, there was a girl I followed on Instagram who I still had started following, like, years before because she did a lot of yoga that I liked. And I'm a yoga instructor. I'm just like, I like to watch her yoga. So then she had kids and started talking about pregnancy. And she came out with a post one time about all the harms of ultrasound. And I was just, like, kind of taken aback by it because I had literally called the week before to book my ultrasound. The birth center didn't even tell me to do it. I just wanted to go get it so I could tell our families that we were pregnant. I wanted to, like, have the photos ready and didn't think anything of it. So I saw her post and read her her little blog post about it, and And then I started doing my own research, and it just kind of confirmed it was kind of hard. I had to dig to, like, see anything other than mainstream information or what's expected. But I did read it all, and I just it just confirmed my truth that I already felt. And I just you know, when you sit with something and you just know that it's the right move for you, I was like, I know I'm not gonna get any ultrasounds. Like, my mom didn't get any. Her mom didn't get any. Her mom didn't get any. So why am I getting them? And why wasn't I why didn't I think about this anyway? So her post kind of led me down a different path. The birth center employees were like, the first lady I met with was a lady named Moon, and I was like, wow. They are super alternative. Like, this is gonna be so home birth y and crunchy. And as soon as I didn't comply, and I was like, I don't want a birth I don't want a ultrasound, it was like a they turned their other face, and they were like, well, what do you mean? Why? Like, why why aren't you getting explain yourself? And, I kept a smile. I was like, you know, my mom didn't have any. Her mom didn't. I don't know what how they can improve my experience. I know that they don't improve outcomes statistically, so I just don't see the point. And, I just felt like I was, like, the bad child all of a sudden or something. Like, they they didn't like me as much. Mhmm. But they allowed me to still birth there, not getting any ultrasound. So, I continued through the regular prenatal care other than that. And then towards the end, I got tested for GBS. Or, actually, they didn't even test me for it. It was in my urine. So they told me automatically I'm gonna get antibiotics because it was in my urine. And, then I kinda dove into research over that, and that caused me, like, a lot of stress towards the end of my pregnancy. And I remember, like, asking around, different women that I knew who had had kids, and I was like, did you test positive for this? And a lot of them didn't even know. They were like, oh, yeah. I think I did a antibiotic antibiotics during my birth. I'm not sure. Like, a lot most of them don't remember, like, didn't even know what was in there, what was being pumped into them or whatever. So that wasn't
Speaker 4
Well and most women are on drugs. You know, most women are on an epidural, so they're on narcotics, and it does affect your memory. You know? So It's crazy.
Speaker 3
That wasn't much help kind of asking around to women I know in real life. And, when I went online, it was a mixed camp. Like, it was sort of like the numbers to me, it didn't warrant me like, however many babies now are being born on antibiotics, I feel like, is not good. And at the time, I just wasn't, I guess, strong enough, confident enough in my convictions to say no. So I was like, alright. I'm just gonna do it. Plus, they gave me this paper that was like, if I don't get the antibiotics, I know my baby will die. I might die.
Speaker 0
So I
Speaker 3
was just like, I'll just comply with this. So gross.
Speaker 4
That's some woman centered care.
Speaker 3
I just said yes. They could give me the antibiotics. And that was kind of, like, the last stage before I had him. I assumed he was gonna be late just because of, like, who I am as a person, but he ended up coming early. So we had a wedding that we went to on a Saturday night, and then we got home around midnight. And then I'd say, like, four AM, I started having some mild cramping. And it wasn't really painful, but I couldn't sleep through it, so I was waking up I was sleeping in between the cramps and, I guess, like, a few hours in, I realized this probably is labor, and I wasn't really able to eat much. I didn't even drink much, that whole day. So that was a Saturday night and then into Sunday. I ended up coming into my office, get some, like, last minute things done. If it was gonna be labor, I just wanted to, like, make sure things were fine. So I was running around that day, didn't really eat or drink anything. And as I had, like, the early labor contractions, I would just kinda sit there and they were bearable. And then by, like, seven PM that Sunday night, they they got pretty intense. And I was still in my apartment. Ryan had ordered pizza, which, like, infuriated me. Like, the smell of it was awful, and I, like, yelled at him to get out of the apartment. And then I started throwing up, and I got nervous. I never heard of throwing up during labor, so that panicked me. And I was like, call the midwife. Something's wrong. I'm throwing up. So he called her, and she was like, alright. I'll meet you at the birth center in an hour or something. So we ended up going there. I couldn't really, like, talk in between the contractions at that point. I just remember before we left, I had a moment of just sitting in my bedroom, lights off. I was laying there, and that was my last memory of, like, having any, like, sense of peace during my labor. It was I wish I had just stayed there, but at the time, it wouldn't even have crossed my mind to stay there to birth my baby. I feel there yet. And they they tried to get me to eat a popsicle, and I I did try, but it was just for some reason, I just couldn't. Immediately, once they got the room ready, they gave me a surgical check, and the lady said that I was only four centimeters dilated and I don't remember how many I faced or whatever. But she was like, there's protein in your urine already, which means that you're really dehydrated and depleted. Have you drank anything? Have you eaten anything? And I told her no. So she's like, alright. Well, you can you can go home and keep laboring until you're more dilated or you can stay here, try and get some sleep. So I was not going home at that point. I just wanted I already felt so defeated, like, just from not having eaten or drank anything all day and to be told that I was only four centimeters or whatever. So I just decided to stay there. And then throughout the night, I was just they did turn the lights off and leave. So it was just me and Ryan in the bedroom laying there. And at one point, they came in and they let me get in the tub. I I don't know what time it was, but I stayed in the tub for a while and just kinda labored alone, and Ryan sat in the doorway. I wish he would've just went to sleep. Like, I don't want anyone in my space. I felt bad. I was really, really bitchy to him during my labor. I kept trying to help, and I wouldn't let him touch me. And, like, he was just trying to support me, and I just couldn't. I was kinda just, like, desperate for I would let them help me because first, in my head, like, I could trust them. They've seen birth before. Like, they know what they're doing. I couldn't take the risk of him, like, touching me and making it worse. So I just kept telling him, no. Like, don't come near. So at one point, after I got out of the tub or after laboring on the tub for a little bit, I felt like I had to poop. So I got up out of the tub, and I would kept sitting on the toilet, going back to the tub, and doing that over and over again. And, the lady gave me another check, and she was like, oh, you're you're more dilated now. We can probably start pushing. So that began my two two two plus hours of pushing. Yeah. That was interesting because I thought I was gonna give I have had my mindset on giving birth in, like, on hands and knees position, and I I did not like that position. When the time came, it did not feel good. So I laid on my back, and it was better, but still not good. Eventually, I got to the birthing stool that they had, and that felt the best. So I kinda just stayed there. And at this point, it was morning, so it was Monday morning. So I'm, like, twenty five, twenty six hours in, and, I'm falling asleep in between the contractions. So I'm literally slumped over on the bed and then this sensation will come, and I'm back up and just trying to, like I'm completely delirious. Like, I have no idea what's going on. And, when I was pushing, I feel like I'm forgetting things. Like, I wrote his birth story down, but it all, like, left my mind immediately after it happened. All I remember is
Speaker 0
when I
Speaker 3
was on my hands and knees, my water broke and, like, across the room violently, and I didn't know what was happening. And I remember the midwife being like, oh, clear. Good. Like, totally clinical. And I was like, well, what happened? She's like, oh, your water broke. So not long after that was when I got on the birthing stool, and I started to feel the ring of fire, which is the most accurate name for anything on the planet. It was it just literally felt like my vagina was on fire. And I would push him. I would push every ounce of energy I had. I would try and push him out, and I could feel him going down. And as soon as I stopped, he'd go right back up, and I could feel him coming down, going right back up every time I stopped. And I got to a point I remember where I was just like, transfer me. Like, give me the c section. I can't he's not gonna fit. Like, I can feel that he is too big to come out. Like, he's not this isn't gonna work. I completely gave up. And, I do remember, though, trying not to fall asleep because I knew something in me was, like, don't fall asleep because then they'll they will transfer you. Like, they'll think something's wrong with you. So so out loud, I was saying, like, I can't do this. Take me somewhere. But inside, there was this voice that was like, no. Fight. Like, you have to stay awake. You can do this. And then I heard them saying, we have to give her more antibiotics. It's been almost four hours. So if she he's not out in fifteen minutes. Give her more. And I was like, oh, shit. I gotta get him out fifteen minutes. And then I felt rushed, and I felt like I had to meet his time limit. So I got this new wave of energy, and I just kept, like, trying to force him out of my body with, like, every ounce of energy I had. And, yeah, my vagina felt like it was on fire. Eventually, one of the midwives was like, oh, he's got hair. And her saying that, I was like, oh my god. He is almost out. Like, his head's right there. So, again, like, second wind, I just kept pushing. And then so I think there were three ladies in there. And the lady on the ground to my left said something about injecting me with something, which will help with something. Like, I couldn't even tell you what what exactly she said. I was completely delirious. I was in no position to, like, advocate for myself or even ask her what she was saying. Anyway, later, the baby came out. His head came out, and then his body came out, like, in the same two seconds. It wasn't, like, a slow descent once he was actually out. She caught him, the same lady the other lady, not the injection lady. The other lady caught him and, immediately gave him to me, put him on my chest, and I just remember, like, that being the most intense feeling of relief I've ever felt in my entire life. Like, I that is, like, the epitome of relief still to this day, that moment. And just walking away with him and just being like, oh my god. Oh my god. I just kept saying, oh my god. So I sat down with him on the bed, and I think I think they just turned the lights off and left us in there for, like, an hour. They were big on the golden hour. They wanted they talked about that a lot during the classes.
Speaker 0
I
Speaker 3
think they came back after the hour to, like, weigh him and stuff like that. So I guess it was nice to have that hour. I actually, like, don't remember what that hour was like. I'm literally might have slept the whole time. But, once they were back, they weighed him and measured him and did whatever they do. And then it was later that I was reading my birth report. I I did end up getting the second round of antibiotics, by the way. I didn't make their fifteen minute time frame. So, he was born on antibiotics, and I saw on the birth report later that they had given me Pitocin. I guess that's what the injection lady was saying, that she's been giving Pitocin. I don't I still don't know why. I think actually, I do know why because when I I was pregnant the second time, when I went back, I asked them, why did you do that? And they were like, oh, it's just a preventative thing, like, it's routine. So
Speaker 4
Yeah. The why is that they do it to everybody.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I thought there was a specific reason why they were giving it to me, but there wasn't. Mhmm. And that reminds me, actually. I guess they part of it is to help or I guess the reason for it is to help get the placenta out. Yeah. And this is what I remember. The lady coming back in this was before the golden hour, so they didn't leave right away. She, was, like, violently pushing on my stomach, like and it was almost it was, like, worse than later. It was, like, awful pain. I was, like, screaming. I'm a pretty quiet person in pain. Like, actually, when I was in the tub now these details are coming back to me. When I was in the tub laboring, I remember another woman coming in. I could hear her through the wall, the the room next to us, and she was screaming, cursing, freaking out, but she was in and out, and she just left. I I think it was her second baby, they said, or maybe they just said that to make me feel better. But I'm, like, very quiet in pain. I just kinda breathe and count in my head, and I'm not a loud person. But she when she was pushing on my stomach, I was actually crying out in pain, and I was like, why why are you doing this? She I think she told me before, she was like, I just have to push this. I think she said something about clots. Like, we don't want you to have any blood blood clots or something, so I have to do this. And, the placenta came out, so they kinda whisked it away. They tried to get it right out, and Brian was like, wait. Ashley, do you wanna see your placenta? And I was just like, I guess. Like, sure. And I just remember I have no idea. I don't I didn't take a picture. I wish I did. I think I just glanced at it and let let them take it wherever they take it. But, yeah, she gave me the I think it's a fundal massage. Right? She gave me the fundal massage. It was awful.
Speaker 4
It's a pretty bullshit term. It's, you know, fundal abuse.
Speaker 3
Definitely more accurate. It was awful. Yeah. So, they got the
Speaker 4
And, like, how infantilizing that there's something that they have to do to you to save you and protect you while you're screaming out no. Mhmm. Like, as if that's true. It's so Yeah. So gross.
Speaker 0
It
Speaker 3
was twisted for sure. But, again, I think they do that to everybody. Like, that's just that Mhmm.
Speaker 0
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4
For sure. So you so you go home and you have this new baby, and how do you how do you, like, think on your birth? How does that experience land for you?
Speaker 3
I thought it wasn't bad because I imagine in my head, it was like, I don't want my baby to be around bright lights and loud noises. And Mhmm. The birth center, when we walked down to the hallway, nobody was there. Like, there was a little courtyard that my family like, we let our families come visit us in the birth center before we left. We had to stay twelve hours because I was GBS positive, and everybody else could leave within four hours, but we had to stay longer to make I guess, they wanted to make sure the baby wasn't what it didn't colonize with the baby and cause an infection or something. So, we stayed the
Speaker 4
Which if antibiotics worked, why would Exactly.
Speaker 3
Why would
Speaker 4
that be a concern? Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right. So we stayed the twelve hours. And before we left, one of the ladies kept trying to, like, tell me not to shake my baby with this pamphlet, and I was falling asleep. And she was, like, getting angry that I was falling asleep. And And I was like, I can't kiss right now. I know I'm not gonna shake my baby. Like, I thanks for the pamphlet. So we kinda left on bad terms, but other than that, I hadn't slept in two days. I hadn't eaten anything. Like, I was I just couldn't do it anymore with, like, the stuff that they're required to do. That was the only thing I remember leaving with, like, a sour taste in my mouth is the lady kept trying to tell me not to shake my baby when I couldn't stay awake. Other than that, I thought it was fine. Like, I thought, it wasn't in a loud place and people, like, doctors everywhere. I was like, we I had a great experience. And it wasn't until I started listening to the I still hadn't heard of free birth or anything. I started when I was on maternity leave, I had a lot of time home alone with the baby. Ryan was still working, so I was listening to podcasts all day, and I was listening to the IndieBirth podcast. That same yoga girl I found on Instagram, I think, put me onto the IndieBirth podcast. So, I started listening to to Marin, and she had an episode about how birth center is like a sheep a wolf in sheep's clothing. And a lot of the stuff now that I look back on and my experience
Speaker 4
there Yeah.
Speaker 3
I love that episode. It's so good. It's it's just so accurate. Like, everything Mhmm. If you're really sold on home birth as an idea, like, like, but you're really too scared to do it, like, the birth center will really market that to you. Like, they'll make you feel like that's what you're getting. Now that I've had a free birth, I know it's worlds away from what it really should be like. And I started to you know, when you already have something you know inside you is true and you start to hear it said out loud by people, it's like, it automatically resonates. And the thing she was saying, I was like, that is so true. And I just could, like, feel myself awakening to all these, you know.
Speaker 4
Well, yeah. And that takes me back to the start of our conversation that, like, what if there's these women that casually know you that have free birth, like, brewing inside of them or home birth brewing inside of them, and then they meet someone amazing like you who's done it. Like, that's why we share our stories, you know, not because someone might disagree who gives a shit. It's that there's women walking around with, like, this brewing, like, could I birth at home? Like, what what would that
Speaker 2
be like? Do I know anyone who's
Speaker 4
done that? And then boom, in comes Ashley who's like, oh, yeah. I just stayed home in free birth. It was great.
Speaker 0
Yeah. And
Speaker 4
it's like explosion, you know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's so true. And I do feel an obligation to be better at that because of the women who and I know it's not easy to walk the walk that you walk or Maren walks or any of the girls, who I have learned from who online or whatever. Yeah. You're like a certain I I feel like you've gotten so much you've been attacked so much and you've I don't know. I just feel like you're walking by and don't care. Like, I think it's not as easy for everybody, but it would be nice.
Speaker 4
It really is as easy as you make it. Like, you are in charge of deciding how you respond to it. So I'm not acting like I like it. Yeah. But, you know, or anything like weird like that. But it really is as easy or as hard as you make it because your it's your it's your business, how you receive it and how you perceive it and if you take it personal. And it's it's a real it's a real spiritual practice to stand in the fire and and practice these tools and not take it personal. And then when you do, like, get up on the horse and be, you know, like what Brene Brown says, like, be in the be in the arena getting your ass kicked. But I don't know. Yeah. I guess my point is just that I do think it's like when you zoom out, it's harder for our spirits to stay complicit in a system that wants you to be small and quiet than to, like, know that you're committed to a different a different thing.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Well, if it weren't for hearing those podcasts, I think I know I definitely would have gone down probably the same abusive path with my second baby, you know, and sort of bliss of not knowing that there's a better option. So I kept listening to her podcast. She had a lot about prenatal care, and it's it just made me rethink all of pregnancy and birth as not a compartmentalized event in my life, but how I live is how I'm gonna birth, and how I live is how I'm gonna be pregnant, why my prenatal care won't be any different from, like, you know, the healthy choices I make when I'm not pregnant. So I just everything I thought I knew was just flipped on its head, and I kinda started from, like a new slate with the way I approached pregnancy and birth. And, there was no going back from that. Like, I can never unknow things that have that my eyes have opened up to. So, so Theo's a few months old at that point. I have to go back to work when he's three three three months old or so, but we live a block away. So I kept I run home, like, fifty times a day to breastfeed him. Like, he never had a bottle, and Ryan stopped working at that point, so he's home with him. And that part, like, the running back and forth part was stressful because I had meetings with people, but I needed to make sure that I was home for him. But for the most part, like, motherhood was great. Like, I he slept in our bed with us. I kinda just kept my baby close whenever I could, and it wasn't difficult or it wasn't like this really difficult thing that everyone made it out to be. Like, motherhood sucks, and I kind of I've been having the best time with motherhood. Optimal, I guess, would be able to, like, stay home with my babies and when they're all older, be able to, like, reenter work workforce without feeling like I've fallen behind or something like that.
Speaker 0
But, during the
Speaker 3
time being, we're making it work, because breastfeeding is, like, not something I'm willing to compromise on. So if I have a job that isn't gonna allow me to do it, I'm I'm back back in with my parents. They're like, we're gonna do something because, there's a girl named Chantelle Quick who came out with an article again, changed my life.
Speaker 4
I know Chantelle. She's a friend of mine. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. She's amazing. Like, I her brain to me is just, like, one of the treasures of the universe.
Speaker 4
Yeah. She's great.
Speaker 3
She came out with an article about, basically, the thought of it was, like, why don't we treat motherhood like an important job like everything else? Like, why don't we prioritize raising our next generation over? Like, why are so many women going back to the nine to five when their kids are six weeks old and nobody cares? So so many things have changed. So many things I thought I knew in my early twenties, like, have just been flipped on their heads since I've started a family. Like, my idea of feminism, I don't think now today's feminism is actually liberating to women at all. Like, the the idea that, you know, we wanna we hate men, but we wanna be men. Like, we wanna go right back into the workforce, you know, taking staying home and keeping a happy family and, like, taking care of a home. That's not valuable. Like, let's just Well,
Speaker 4
that's this is this is feminism inside of patriarchy. Right? So it there it's still so, it's still so patriarchal, you know, this this idea, yeah, of, like, having and the pressures right. Of like, like you just said of had, like, not falling behind in your patriarchal work system that doesn't allow for motherhood and that doesn't support breastfeeding and that doesn't give, you know, years of maternity leave with job security. Like it's, it's, it's still really, really, really quite misogynistic. Even though at the same time, we are where we are, and we do need women to have choices. But those choices are still about trying to survive in a really misogynistic environment. So, yeah, it's complex.
Speaker 3
It really is. So, yeah, Chantelle was basically saying in the article, motherhood is a job. Like, if you wanna succeed at your corporate job, you should wanna succeed at motherhood too. Like, this is, if our if not the most important job in the world, you know, we should be putting women in the best position to succeed at that and feel supported, and then maybe, you know, our postpartum depression rates wouldn't be further removed. It's so clear when you say these things out loud why so many women are depressed, like, early in motherhood, not just from traumatic births, but their motherhood experience is completely, you know, what's the word, like, sabotage from the beginning. So, yeah, I just kind of started to wake up to all these concepts as he was a few months old. And then going into my pregnancy with her, I did not plan to get pregnant. I was doing this really lazy fertility awareness method, thing with Ryan where I was using an app that, tracked my period, and it would estimate when I was gonna be eye bloat based on that.
Speaker 4
And and just to be clear, that's not fertility awareness. Right? Like, that's just yeah. That's just using an app and putting your period in, which is all which is not able to provide, like, actual individualized information. You really would have
Speaker 3
to be
Speaker 4
temping and charting.
Speaker 0
I just said that
Speaker 3
I didn't I never tested my cervical fluid. I've never, like, took my temperature. It was really not totally worth it. But in my mind, I was like, it's safe enough. I don't wanna go back to the pull out days where I'm like, the I'm not icons are gross. I was just like, let's just do this. You know, we're already parents. It's probably, like, ninety percent. We're good.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But I was planning the reason I cared to not get pregnant is because we were planning, like, a love celebration, very similar to a wedding. Just, like, I don't feel the need to celebrate legal marriage. So it was just like a I I never had the balls to do it, but I was just like, alright. People know where to this point. Like, I'm just gonna invite all my friends and family and have this big this big love celebration that summer of twenty nineteen. And then I got pregnant in February, which is funny because we literally had sex, like, twice that whole month. And, of course, that's the month that, like, we get pregnant. So, I had, like, work trips that month. We were so busy. Then my period's late in the beginning of March, and I'm like, there's it's not a possibility. Like, this month of all month is definitely not the month that I got pregnant. But and I had planned this next pregnancy to not even take a pregnancy test, to really just, like, be in my body and feel it. And then I was like, no. This can't be happening. So I went to CVS day five of my late period, got a pregnancy test. It was positive, and I just remember feeling disappointed. Like, I just wasn't happy about it. Ryan immediately was happy because he doesn't give a shit about the love ceremony. He's just, like, doing it for me. And I was like, alright. Here we go, I guess. So, and I had stress around being pregnant because I heard that it dries your milk supply, and I didn't think Theo was ready for that. I didn't he was, a year and, like, three months old at the time that I got pregnant, and I was like, well, shit. What if my milk dries up right away? And that gave me, like, a lot of stress. I just didn't I wouldn't have planned to do that to him so early, basically. So, that happened. And I kinda did the math on her due date and figured she would be born beginning of November. So I remember just thinking like, alright, how am I gonna maneuver this? Like, I know I don't want another birth center baby. I know I'm gonna free birth this baby, but I hadn't decided yet how much I was gonna engage with the system or if I was just gonna do my prenatal care through the birth center. And then, if I yeah, if I was at home and I got two in my own head about it, at least I could go there and not to the hospital.
Speaker 4
So tell me about you said that you already knew you were gonna free birth this baby. So do you remember, like, when you realized that? It sounds like it was even before you were pregnant with Octavia. Tell me about, like, realizing that that's what you were gonna do.
Speaker 3
I actually realized it when over my maternity leave when I had just had Theo. So I first heard of free birth, actually right before I had him. That same girl, it always comes back her name. Her name on Instagram is being dot Celine, if anyone wants to follow her. But, she had just had a free birth at the end of August of twenty seventeen or, like, right before Theo was born. And I was just like, woah. She had the baby by herself at home? Like, there was nobody there? I was just like, I don't know. Like, maybe that's a little too much. Like, I don't know if I could do that. It wasn't I when I first saw it, I was just like, that's not for me. Like, that seems a little crazy. And then when after I had Theo, I started listening to podcasts, and I started reading more. So and then I found your podcast, and then listening to stories of other women who had free birth just solidified it. And I was just like, this isn't crazy. This is something in me was already telling me, like, drawing me towards this. This is what I need to do. And then hearing the stories of other women just solidified, like, this isn't a crazy choice, and, this is really, like, my truth. This is when I sit with the possibility of need for rebirthing, it feels right to me. And I just kind of knew because of that. So, it was actually before I even, like, went back to work that he was only a few months old.
Speaker 4
And did Ryan skip a beat or was he, like, all in?
Speaker 3
He definitely skipped a beat. We didn't talk much about it until I was actually pregnant again, and I know that he wasn't, like, gung ho about it. He had a lot of questions, and that's where the course that you guys had we bought the course, and, it's just, like, extremely comprehensive. I'm, like, still not all the way through it, but I did wanna know about, a lot of, like, red flags that could happen, although super rare if I'm putting myself in a good situation. I knew it would make him feel better. Like, okay. If cord prolapse, so rare, but if it happens, here's what we do. Hands and knees, butt up in the air. Like, he felt better being prepared. He I guess there's a pressure on him because if he was the only one home and something went wrong and he didn't have any idea how to respond or what to do, he felt like he was the one that killed our baby or something. He never said that, but I feel like that's where his hesitation came from. And I told him, I don't want you or need you to do anything. Here, listen to this course with me. We, we've listened to a lot of the videos together. And if he can say I'm passionate about something, he's never really fought me on it. Like, I didn't feel any resistance from him once I was like, here's what I'm doing. You can listen to these resources if you wanna feel better about it. He listened to the resources, and he I think he felt better about it. But he also probably knew I was gonna do it regardless, and he just decided to have my back instead of making it a problem. So, he initially wanted to know more. We bought the course. He knew more, and then it wasn't we never really had another debate about it.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
So how when you were organizing around your prenatal care and who's gonna be there, tell me a little bit about, yeah, just like what that pregnancy looked like and
Speaker 3
So I didn't go for an appointment. I wasn't I remember posting in the private membership, a question. I was like, what do you guys think? Like, should I do some like, an appointment or two through the birth center? Because for work, I needed somebody to sign off that I was pregnant, like, some some doctor to confirm to my work that I was pregnant so that I could get paid maternity leave. And, I was like, should I just go to the birth center? And then that way, I'm like, on their books, if I get my head at home, I can still go there into the hospital. And somebody just like blunt as hell. They were like, that sounds like bullshit. Like, why don't you just if you're gonna do this, do it all the way and, like, be confident in your choice. And I was like, yeah. You're right. So I did end up at twenty eight weeks, I tried to go in, just get them to sign the form, and I wouldn't have gone back. I didn't go back, But it was funny. So, like, that experience at the birth center, I feel like it's worth telling. So it was, like, I was twenty eight weeks in with Octavia, and I made my appointment. They were confused why this was my first time coming in, and Mhmm. I was just like, I don't feel the need to. Like, I'm I'm not gonna do any ultrasounds again, and I don't feel like they're like, alright. Well, you're gonna do the gestational diabetes test right now. You're gonna do the, they they had, like, four tests they wanted me to do immediately. And I was like, no. I'm actually not gonna do any of those either. I was like, I'll do the blood one. I don't mind to have my blood drawn, but I'm not gonna do I'm not gonna drink that stuff. I'm not gonna whatever else they wanted me to do, I was like, no. And so the lady leaves, and, she comes back with, like, the owner of the birth center, whoever the lady the head honcho lady is, and she's like, you can't you can't, turn these things down if you want a birth.
Speaker 0
And I
Speaker 3
was like, well, do you wanna know where I'm coming from? Like, are we gonna have a conversation, and do you care to converse with me or no? And she was like, you know, your decision is your decisions, but why don't you just have a home birth? And I was like, I I don't know. I don't can't afford a midwife. And, really, at that appointment, I wanted them to sign the paper, and I wanted to talk to one of them to see if there could just be a woman I could call if I had questions during my home birth. Like, if I could just have a relationship with one of their midwives where I could just call them if I had a question, like, if they could just be my community, like, my real life community or something, even if I'm not using them to birth there. And the conversation never went there because, they wanted me to do a they wanted me to do a pap smear or something. They wanted me to do all kinds of things. And, the lady, before she brought that honcho in, she was like, well, I have to do this test and this test. And she, wanted to do the Doppler, and I was like, no, I'm not doing Doppler. So she got the fetoscope, and she was, like, trying forever to hear the heartbeat. And I was like, oh, she really does care. Because we were having a conversation for a while about how I wasn't gonna do all these things and I could see her getting kind of flustered. But then when she was using the fetoscope, she was trying really hard. And I was like, you know what? Maybe she does, like, woman to woman care about me. She wants me to hear my baby's heartbeat. Maybe she does care. And then we went back to the desk and she was even more flustered. She was like, I don't know what to write down for heartbeat now. And I was just like, holy shit. Okay. I need to get out of here. So she brought the, she was the whole time, she was just frustrated because she needed to write down numbers on her form and
Speaker 4
she Exactly. Get it.
Speaker 3
So, she brought the head lady in, and she was just, like, had a home birth. And I was like, I don't know. I can't afford to work. So I was hoping I was hoping once Damn, dude.
Speaker 4
It's so crazy. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And she was straight up. Like, she I I'm not accusing them of lying or anything that or trying to be acting or anything because she was just like, we need to keep a relationship at the hospital, so we have to abide by these rules. If you don't wanna abide by the rules, you can't birth here.
Speaker 4
Some midwifery,
Speaker 3
Yeah. I was like, so you work for the state, not women, but that's fine. Mhmm. So that was my one and only appointment there. They did end up signing my form confirming. I was pregnant and confirming my due date, so I got my paid paternity leave. But I never went back there. Never the lady the head honcho lady gave me her name and number, and she was like, think about it. Call me back if you wanna keep coming here if you have any more questions, whatever. So I never called her. So went home. The rest of my pregnancy was, like, very boring. Both my pregnancies were super boring. Around so she was due, technically, November fourth. She didn't end up coming until forty one weeks and four days. And at that point, I had I had told too many people my due date at that point by accident, so everyone was, like, bothering me. They're like, well, what do you mean? It's almost two weeks. And don't you think she's gonna be born or, like, the baby's gonna be stillborn by now? I'm like, what? No. I I know this the numbers on that. It goes from, like, four in every thousand to, like, six in every thousand or something every ten thousand or something. But, you know, if you read it, that's a fifty percent increase. You get, like, super scared when it's really still so minimal and so rare that that would happen. I still felt no fear about birth. Even when I was pregnant with Theo, I felt no fear about birth. People would ask me, if I was scared, and I was like, no. I genuinely was never scared of birth. And even after I had you know, Theo's birth was not bliss. It wasn't euphoric or anything. It hurt a lot. And I remember a lot of those sensations. Some of them I don't, but I remember it wasn't fun. I still wasn't scared of birth. I still have this exciting feeling about going into birth. So with Octavia, forty one weeks, four days. Around six AM one morning, I started feeling kinda crampy, and they were every hour or so. Around ten AM, I started to feel them more strongly, and I kinda stayed in bed for them. And I was like, I'll just sleep through them. I was
Speaker 4
And sorry. The plan the plan was just you and your man?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was just gonna be Okay. I needed him to stay with Theo just to keep Theo out of my hair. I had a Theo, my really only stress was about Theo being in my space when I was trying to burp. So, I told Ryan, just, like, offer me water sometimes. Stay with Theo, and if you hear me, like, giving up, just remind me, like, I might be in transition. That's all I wanted him to do. Those were my three things I asked him to do. So, I started to have those sensations in the morning. I was lying in bed through them, and I every time I got up, they got stronger. And so I was like, alright. If I wanna meet my baby, I just need to get up and, like, go into the pain and not be afraid to get things going. So, I had no sense of time after this. I remember not wanting anyone to know I was in labor. I just didn't want that, like, nervous energy out in the universe. I just wanted to tell people when there was a baby and that was it. But I ended up having to have Ryan text my boss to tell him them I was in labor so that they knew why I wasn't at work. So, that was it. We didn't tell our families or anything that I was in labor. So, I didn't never checked myself. I don't even know how checked myself. I never crossed my mind to, like, see how dilated I was. I just remember the contractions getting stronger and stronger, and I would kinda just walk around the apartment. Every time a wave came, I would stop and hold on to a table or the sink or whatever and just kinda sway my hips and count, and that's how I got through it. And at one point, Ryan took Theo to the park, and I turned on, Yolande and her, like, little sing song voice. There's, like, a meditation track or or an affirmation track on the, complete guide to free birth course that I bought, and I played that for a little bit and just tried to get in a zone. And, around one around one PM, she was born, so it was about four hours of active labor. But the last handful of contractions that I have before she was born were, like, incredibly intense. Like, I didn't even know that a body could feel that type of sensation. It was so ridiculously different from the sensations I had with Theo. There was I had no control, and it made me feel kind of panicky, not scared, but
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
The last couple of contractions were like, it was like being on a roller coaster, like, not knowing what's gonna happen next. I was like, I don't have any control over my body, and I didn't recognize what was going on. And it made me feel a little panicky. So at that point, I was making these noises, and I was, like, looking out to the sunny afternoon out of our bathroom window. And I was like, our neighbors definitely think I'm crazy. Like, I'm being so loud. None of them said anything, but, I definitely felt like those last few contractions were, like, something I had never felt before. And I guess that's what FER is. Like, you know, when the she was just coming out whether I liked it or not, and I think that panicky feeling came from me being like, I'm not ready. Like, it's happening too fast, and I didn't I wasn't ready for her to come out yet, but she was coming no matter what, and so I was just along for the ride. During one of those last few contractions, though, I did intuitively kinda, like, feel down in my vagina area, which I never thought about doing beforehand. I guess I'm kinda squeamish. Like, I'm not that type of girl to, like, have a mirror down there and watch everything going on. I, like, no, I wouldn't think to do that, but I kinda felt down there, and I felt, like, this gooey stuff when I saw my mucus mucus plug. So I just kinda, wiped it off in the sink, and then half my water broke, I would say, because then another big water gush came in the next push. Both my pregnancies, basically, my water broke, like, right towards the end. So, the water was clear. I remember thinking that was good. And then the next contraction, her head was starting to come out. And Ryan had opened the bathroom door, and he was like, are you good? And And I was like, yeah. There's just, like, a head coming out of my vagina. She's gonna be born soon. I knew she was a girl. I knew both babies were the genders they were for some reason, like, without a doubt. So, her head was coming out. I could feel the hair, and the next big wave, she came right out. It took, like, a little bit of a conscious effort for me to push a little bit, and her whole body came out. Then I got in the tub. She was crying. She was perfect. She was, like, pink and, crying right away. Her little umbilical cord was wrapped around her like a beauty queen sash. I kinda just, like, unwrapped it and held her to me. And I got in the tub and held her close to me, and Ryan and Theo came in because he could hear the baby crying. And he looked at me, kind of, like, concerned, and he was like, are you good? And I was like, yeah. Why? And he was like, there's a lot of blood on the ground. And I looked over, and there was a pretty big pile of blood or puddle of blood. And, there was also, like, a pile, what I know now is meconium, but he'd be like, well, what's that? And I didn't know what it was. So I was just like, it's just a blood clot. And I said it, like, really nonchalantly because I just wanted to think it was not a big deal. I didn't wanna get my own head about it because I know blood clots are not supposed to be that big. And, I just, like, didn't wanna I was shaking, so I didn't wanna start to think I was hemorrhaging or I didn't wanna, like, get my own head after having such a perfect birth, and now I'm gonna start to overthink everything. So I wasn't comfortable in the tub. He put a pad down on the bed. I went and laid down, and, we called this woman, Terry, who I met through the private membership. Another Philly girl that was in the private membership put me in touch with her, and she's not a midwife. She's just a lady who, like, attends people's birth sometimes. And she came over, like, an hour after Octavia was born, and, my placenta came out, like, right before she got there. And she was like, oh, yeah. That's a normal amount of blood. I guess I'm just not used to the same blood, so I thought it was, like, a crazy amount. And she was like, that's meconium. And, I was like, alright. Great. And then for some reason, I was worried about my placenta being I had never felt a placenta before. My last night, I didn't even see it, like, that I can remember. And she was like, no. Perfect, Senna. Everything looks great. Your baby's pretty big, but other than that and I was like, to me, she looked so little compared to my two year old. I was like, that is the tiniest baby I've ever seen. What do you mean? And she weighed her, and she was nine pounds, one ounce. She said I looked fine. I had, like, a very tiny superficial tear, and I didn't need to do anything about it. The only thing I would say that's kind of it. She came in and checked and left, and that's but she basically she came in and made me feel better about everything. She didn't touch my baby. I placed the baby in the weight thing, and she kinda just held it up and, she wasn't gonna check me. I asked her to, and she she just did what I asked her to do and then left. That was literally it. She asked if she could do anything else, and I was like, no. She just left. And the only thing after I had Octavia that caught me off guard was the afterbirth pains. Like, it they were they were like active labor contractions. I could I talked through them, and it kind of, I couldn't really enjoy my time with the baby because they were so bad. And I nobody told me about that, and I was just like, I didn't have that with Theo, and, I just remember feeling so frustrated. Like, I hadn't resisted any of the pain in my labor with her. I just remember I I remember dreading, especially those last two contractions, like, waiting for them to come and, like, dreading them, but knowing I was just gonna go into it full force and, like, let it destroy me. And I was, like, prepared for that during labor after I had her and the pain was still that bad. And I just remember, no. Stop it. Yeah. I was just like, this should not be this way. I'm now resisting it, and I think that made it worse. But I was so mad that I was still in pain after I had her. Yeah. And they lasted for, like, two days. The two two days or maybe almost three. That was the only thing that really was not great about her birth and really made me laugh. Yeah. But, hopefully, next time, I'll know how to prepare for that. I think there are some, like, tinctures that you could try, so I'll try and be, you know, for the next time. But they both breastfed, like, immediately. I've really had, like, a really easy road breastfeeding. I've never I sometimes feel bad for saying that, but, like, I never have had an issue with breastfeeding. I'm still breastfeeding both of them. And it's kinda my only tool when they're obsessed. So when I'm not breastfeeding, I don't know what I'm gonna do, but for now, it's
Speaker 0
been great.
Speaker 4
Totally have that thought. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3
It was just very boring, uneventful birth, and, I feel like it was the most straightforward birth I could possibly have had. And doesn't sound like an exciting story, but I'm happy for all the rest of my birth to go that way too. Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Awesome. Simple is good. You know, we need to, like, undramatize birth when we can. There's, plenty of dramatic birth stories, and those are interesting in a in a different way. But I think a a pretty straightforward free birth story is, like, incredibly important to also talk about so that women know that that can be there. And it, like, opens up the it creates the possibility for other women when they know that this is a story that happens.
Speaker 0
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time.
Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 2
And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching, learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, the complete guide to free birth. Don't miss the radical birth keeper school if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise, and the revolution starts inside each of us. Our opening song is by Shai La Rae. And now I'll leave you with our Freebird Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 5
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons or your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
