Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Is birth work your calling? Do you long to witness and support the awesome power of women as we make life form kinship and transform the world through undisturbed mother centered birth? In your most expansive vision of your life, are you the authentic midwife of your community, walking in total grace, reciprocity, and trust with women through the sacred portal of pregnancy and birth? Then our groundbreaking Radical Birthkeeper School is for you. It's an immersive and intensive, fast paced live program in all things authentic midwifery and self mastery that will give you the blueprint and guidance to launch a life altering, world shaking, radical birth brand and business. Think birth business mastermind, life changing coaching intensive, deep dive into all things birth, step by step roadmap for serving women authentically, and the wise woman initiation that you have been dreaming of, all rolled into one epic program that will change your entire life. It is time to become the lighthouse that guides women home to themselves. Head over to radical birthkeeper school dot com and grab your spot because we are enrolling now, and we always sell out. Say yes to your calling and join us in this revolution of bringing birth back home. W w w dot radical birthkeeper school dot com. Today on the show, I'm talking with my friend Vivian about birth as a catalyst for deep maturation. With her first baby, Vivian had a medicalized birth. And although she free birthed her her second son, she brought him into the hospital two days postpartum. She left eleven days later with a commitment to do things differently the next time around. Vivian's third birth was powerful and glorious, and she speaks about how it even healed her relationship with her own mother.
Speaker 3
Vivian.
Speaker 2
Emilee. I'm excited to be doing this with you today. And, you know, for the back story very quickly, I just wanna share that you are a recent graduate of the Radical Birthkeeper School. And so I got to know you quite intimately in those twelve weeks, and then we went on to do a little bit of coaching together where I got to hear your story. And when I heard it, yeah, I knew that I wanted to have it shared on the podcast, and we'll get into why. I don't wanna give any any spoilers, but, I do wanna preface this to say that I'm just so proud of you, and I'm I'm really I really sincerely mean this. I'm really blown away by your story and your resilience and your willingness to, just really, like, learn and practice trust in your mothering. So
Speaker 4
Yeah. Thank you. Don't look at me crying. Yeah. Thank you so much. I all, thank you for having me, Emilee. I'm so excited to share. And, yeah, it's been, birth, pregnancy. It's been such a, like, a wild journey for me. You know, I started in the system in the medical system, which for me is interesting because before I even had, before I even got pregnant for the first time, I was very resistant to a lot of the allopathic, you know, the system. So once again, like, the like, peeling back the layers of how much we're kind of brainwashed in all these different ways and feeling like I the only option I had was, you know, these, like, going to the OB and getting all of these, tests done and all of that. So when I got pregnant for the first time, I was in a very abusive relationship that I left three months in, and it was, like, kind of like an escape scenario where I just, like, just figured out a way to escape. And, yeah, it was it was pretty it was, like, a pretty dark time, but I knew, there was just something in me that knew that mothering was what was, like, right. What was next is where I was, like, supposed to head. So, moved back to my hometown with my parents for a bit in North Carolina and then ended up moving back to LA. And, yeah, went through the whole rigmarole of the OOBs and all of that there.
Speaker 2
The setup is you are you leave an abusive relationship. You are twenty four. You're three months in. You try to go be with family, but then you wind up coming back to LA. Right? Yeah. And you're just going through the stuff on your own.
Speaker 4
Basically, my sister lived in LA as well, and I really was hoping for more, of her presence. But I guess she had her own life going on, so it was really hard for her. And I didn't have much of a community there at that time. So, you know, in hindsight, it's like, that was a really bad idea, but, you know, it it's all good. Yeah. So I, like, start doing prenatals with this this doctor who convinced tries to convince me my baby is, my due date is wrong. My baby is too big. I I should really trying to push a c section on me, told me, like, no. Your due date is a month sooner than you think. I mean, all of the, like, testing you could possibly do, all the like, we have to do so many ultrasounds. We have to do three d ultrasounds. And, you know, I just didn't know. I didn't have any knowledge outside of outside of what, you know, I was being told. So and also just in a really weak, fragile state. My mom would come to to to support me. She would fly out there to support me, but her my relationship with her at that time was also very rocky. So, yeah. So by the time I went into labor, I my water broke. And maybe about twelve hours later, I woke up. My water broke at night. The next morning, I woke up Barely any contractions, like, any not really anything worth thinking of. But went to the hospital, didn't really you know? I I guess it's all kind of a blur at that point. Like, I feel like you're not really told much of anything. You're there you're just kind of, like, run through the system. So what you know, receiving Pitocin, not really being told anything about Pitocin, and which, you know, I went in there with, like, a birth plan of, like, I don't want the epidural. I wanna you know, I just wanna have my baby, without drugs and all that. And, of course, the Pitocin gets you to a point where you're, like, you're you cannot handle the pain coming on that fast of your designs. You slowly get the pain in waves so that when it gets really intense, we've, like, worked up our tolerance to that point. And it just came on so fast. And it was I just remember being, like, looking at my sister and crying and being, like, I think I need an epidural. And she was, like, it's okay. Like, trying to make me feel okay about it. Like, that's okay. And I was just, like, no. I'm so I feel so guilty. I didn't want this. And ended up getting it. You know, they do the whole thing of, like, well, you have to get it now because if it's too late, if you wait too long and getting the epidural and then you know? I mean, this is, like, kind of, like, really sad, but I just remember once it kicked in just being like, oh, I feel fine. I feel great now. You know? And in hindsight, like, oh, that's so cringey. But, you know, in the moment was just like, okay.
Speaker 2
Well, you were being tortured with pharmaceuticals that are intended to wreck your body and then you're given more pharmaceuticals so that you can dissociate.
Speaker 4
Exactly.
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's cringey but it also makes total sense that Yeah. There would be relief when you can numb out from the torture that your body's going through.
Speaker 4
Exactly. And that's, like, not to even mention just, like, you know, many women talk about, like, that experience of being in a hospital with, like, the bright lights and all these strangers surrounding you. Yeah. Not a pleasant experience at all. So, you know, my all the the stuff of, you know, my they told me to push. I I did it. They my baby got taken away to go be cleaned. Like, so we got into our little, like, room where they put us and, Steve has jaundice. And that's when they're like, alright. We need to put him under the lights. And I remember this this this whole this birth story is just, like, so fuzzy to me, the memory of it. I remember I stayed the night and or I stayed I they I just remember at one point, they were like, you have to go, but we're keeping your baby here. And I was like, I don't under how is that even, like how can you do that? And they'll like, I can't stay, and they're like, no. You have to go. We're keeping your baby here. So I was away from him for for one night, and then I think got him the next day. They had him under the billy lights, you know, all the bullshit. So, you know, I am I mothering is, like, just what I'm here to do. I love I love being a mom. It was so, it was so easy to put the trauma aside and just, like, just be in love with my baby. And it was, it melted away, the the hardship. So I I healed well. I didn't feel like postpartum was traumatic at all. I had family here supporting me. My mom and a close family friend came, and they really helped me even though I was just, like, awful to deal with. Just, you know, they were very helpful. And, yeah, I think I was just, like, so in in love. I, like, I didn't really let myself think too much about the experience. And, also, like you said, it's such a standard. You're you know, we're just kinda told, like, oh, at least your baby's healthy. At least you you know, whatever. So, yeah, I just kinda soaked in the joy of motherhood. I mean, it it was rough. I struggled for, like, a while. I ended up moving back to Wilmington, my hometown, with my parents. It'd be, like, eight months after he was born, just being like, I can't I can't do this, you know, here alone. So, there's, like, so much that happens in between there and, getting pregnant with my next baby. But my father passed away in that time. I'm I lived in my hometown for a bit, and then my family kind of had a little bit of a falling out. And I moved, I was dating someone at the time, and Steve and I moved with him to Seattle. And then that relationship ended, and I decided to move back to LA. And then within maybe six months of moving back to LA was when I met Brett. And pretty soon into our relationship, I got pregnant. And at that point, you know, Brett is a very, very, like, holistic minded person like me. So we kind of started it with just, like, very in sync of, like, you know, going through a holistic pregnancy as much as possible. Went to a few appointments, and I remember leaving after I think it was the third appointment and looking at Brett. Well, this is actually I don't think I've ever told this to anybody, but during one of my appointments, the the, the doctor who was, like, in apprenticeship, he wasn't actually, like, a practicing doctor yet. He, like, was going to, like, put his hand inside of me to do all the checking or whatever, and he put his gloves on. And I'm so I'm, like, so disappointed myself for not saying something. But he put his gloves on and then started, like, touching other things around the room.
Speaker 2
Oh, around
Speaker 4
the room. Oh, around the room. And then he put his hands inside of me. And I'm like, you're putting your dirty ass hands that you've been touching the room with inside of me. And oh, I'll never I just the image is, like, so sharp in my mind. I remember just being so grossed out by that. So it might have been then when we left the building and got in the car, and I looked over at Brett, and I was like, I don't ever wanna go to a doctor appointment again. And Brad was like, okay. I support that. And I was like, okay. Then that's that's where it ends. And,
Speaker 2
that was Have you heard about free birth yet?
Speaker 4
I think that was like it coincided. I think it was, like, maybe right before I opted out was when I started I found Freebird Society, and I just was, like, hooked on all the I, like, listened to every single episode and just started doing research and, like, mind blown. I cannot believe that this is, like, a thing. I can't believe that this exists. So, yeah, that really actually, the Freebird Society podcast is, like, what carried me through
Speaker 2
Oh, I didn't know.
Speaker 4
Yeah. What carried me through that the rest of that pregnancy and, you know, how
Speaker 2
I wish I had known you then.
Speaker 4
There actually I remember maybe hours after Sol was born, I looked over at Brett, and I was like, I just wanna send Emilee a message and tell her and thank her for, like she's the reason that I was able to do this. I mean, oh, it's so beautiful. So that was like a beautiful pregnancy. I you know, after opting out, it was just, you know I mean, there was, like, stress and stuff, but overall, it was just, like, a really easygoing pregnancy. Labor was that was, like, that was an awesome labor experience. I remember my water broke. We were at Brett's mom's house, and my water broke. And we actually, no. My water didn't break. I just started getting contractions, and we decided to go back home. And the plan was his mom was gonna stay with Steve so we could just have the house to ourselves. And we go back home, and it's just, like, the dance of of, like, labor. I was like I remember walking around outside and, like, water is, like, coming out and, like, bouncing on the ball and just kinda moving back and forth. And then there's this one part where I was under the blanket. I was really cold just, like, wrapped up in the blanket and having the those intense, like, insane contractions. And, like, I would get that the pain would come on so strong, and I just kind of, like, growl through it or something. And then when the pain went away, I was just in the cosmos, like, totally tripping out somewhere else and very aware that I was, like, what I was doing, what my body was doing for me. It was so beautiful. So drifting in and out of this for a while. And then and I had been, like, going in and out of the bathtub this whole time. And then I remember at one point, like, I was like, okay. Time to move on. It's like, I've been doing this little dance like, this little gentle sweetness in the bed. It's time to move on from that. So I was like, I'm gonna go to the bathtub. Time to go, like, get real. Like, I think we lit some candles, and I told Brett like, the whole time I had, like, sweet gentle music playing. I was like, alright. Time to put on, like, your music was just, like, EDM music. I was like, time to put on something, like, to get me going, which is so not me. That's, like, never what I'm really called to. And at that point, just, like, going through it, the pain lessened at this point. I didn't feel so, like, full of the pain of the contraction, but just like, okay. We're moving to, like, the pushing station. This is all just, like, feeling it. There's no you know what I mean? You're just, like, your body naturally is very, like, giving you all the clues of what to do. So I remember going to sit on the toilet and giving a good push and, like, all his head just came out. And I remember scream screaming of Brett, and I was like, his head's out. His head's out. So Brett comes running over, and I'm like, help me up. So he, like, helps me stand up, and I end up, birthing him fully while I'm, like, hands on the, sink, like, on the counter. And, yeah, Brett caught him. I was just kind of, like, hovering over, and it was just beautiful. And, it was so beautiful. I remember, I think within, like, thirty minutes, the placenta came out and just, like, snuggled in the bed. It was beautiful. It's perfect. And, you know, halfway through the next day, I just started feeling a little bit paranoid about the jaundice. Because, right, that's like the story of, like, well, if your one kid had jaundice, you should, you know, beware of jaundice in your next kid. So I started feeling paranoid about that.
Speaker 2
You didn't know. That's one of the lies they say.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That's one of the lies I was told. So I started feeling really paranoid because Sol was just very tired. I mean, he was very alive, but also just, like, wasn't nursing as much. And I think that I can I can definitely say that I I didn't put the I didn't push the breastfeeding to the degree that I should have and that I, like, wasn't trying as much? I think I was just so tired and happy the baby was there or whatever and, just started getting, like, really paranoid about the jaundice, seeing the yellow. So what we decided to do was find a midwife, someone, like, you know, close by who would just come check him out. And that
Speaker 2
was like LA in the story. Yep.
Speaker 4
And this sweet lady at Irma Rame, she came by. She was like, oh, he he seems fine, but you probably wanna go to just go to the doctor and, you know, get your doctor to look. So we do that, and the doctor's like
Speaker 2
the point of these midwives? Yeah. To just tell you to go see a doctor?
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, they they're just trying to protect themselves. Right? So everyone's trying to It's
Speaker 2
just such a it's all such a farce. Like, a middle midwife would support you and your baby. Yeah. Not tell you to just go into the place that abused you and took your baby from you last time. Okay.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So we go to the doctor and they are like, oh, you need to go to the hospital to get the bilirubin test. So we take him to do that. And when they get the results, the doctor calls, and he's like, you need to take the the baby to the hospital now. His bilirubin's really high. So we show up. Oh, it just gets so dark here. We show up at the hospital. They put us in, like, the pediatrics, I guess. I'm not sure why, but they didn't put him in the NICU. They put him in in the pediatrics. And the the, by the way, like, this part of the hospital was empty. There was, like, no one there. So we have they have just, like, doctors rotating in. Right? So you're seeing a new doctor every twelve hours or something like that. And the first, I think, three doctors we saw, which were all women, were very, like, oh, he's fine. You just need to keep him under the the billy lights, like, blah blah blah. He's fine. And then comes this male doctor who I don't know. You could just feel the energy if he's like, oh, something's wrong. He must have an infection. There must there's something wrong. So they do they they do a catheter to do a urine sample. They, they're do like, taking blood at this point often because they're constantly checking his blood. And I'm trying to remember, like, the sequence of how this happened. I made a really or then they do a spinal tap. They convince? Yeah. They they'll well, it's not even convinced because at that point, you don't get to say no. You especially when it's like a baby. Maybe for me, I could like, but, like, you can't say no. So, like, we need to do a spinal tap.
Speaker 2
And like, fear of meningitis or something
Speaker 4
Yeah. Something pull out? And I even and I even remember this. Brett just recently reminded me that they messed it up the first time and did it twice on my little baby because I wasn't there for the spinal tap. They they could only take one one of us, and Brett went with them. You're, like, day one or day two? This is day two or three, I think. Yeah. Wow. Oh my god. So rough. And, you know, that came back negative, of course, because I knew there's nothing wrong with my baby, and I just made a huge mistake. And then and then I then I made a horrible mistake where I was like, I felt like he was, like, kind of just just like babies do, like, kind of breathing, you know, having, like, those not it's not like that flowing breath necessarily. They just kinda have, like, interrupted breath a little bit. Nothing wrong. Just I'd I did the same thing. And I remember being like, I can't tell if he's like if his, like, breathing is normal. And that that same doctor was like, oh, then we need to do an X-ray or whatever, some type of scan of his lungs. We need to scan his lungs. He must have some type of infection in his lungs. So they do I don't remember what it was. And, yeah, he, like, brings back the scan thing, and he's like, oh, do you see this right here? He's got pneumonia. This is pneumonia right here. And we're like, what? Like, no way. There's no way. And at this point, they had been trying really hard to push antibiotics since we got there, push antibiotics on Soul. And we were very resistant. We're just like I I told him, I'm not I'm not giving him antibiotics unless I have to. Like, I you're I'm not I don't wanna give my child antibiotics. And it's like this guy was trying to find a reason, like, trying to find something. So they he comes back with the skin. He's like, see? We have to give him antibiotics. So that's the point where they put him on IV antibiotics, and they're like, you're gonna be here. You know, we don't know how long you're gonna have to be here. We're just gonna have to see how things progress. I ended up being there total I I believe it was, like, eleven days. I didn't leave the hospital once, of course. I didn't I didn't wanna leave him. So luckily, my free birth, because of how beautiful my free birth was, I felt fine despite being freshly postpartum. Like, I I could handle it. I would not I was not willing to leave my baby. But at at one point in this whole thing, a infectious disease specialist comes to check on the baby. Right? So they call someone in to come check on Sol Ray. And the doctor, with with no other doctors around, this effect infectious disease specialist, is like, oh, you know, like, he's fine. Like, he didn't fully say it. Like, it was it was, like, very implied. Like, he's okay. Like, none of, like, none of basically implying, like, none of this is really necessary. Like, your baby's okay. You should be able to go home. So at that point, after he came to visit us, we go and we're like, we wanna go home. We're gonna take our baby home. And that's when they threatened with, CPS. And they're like, no. You can't take him. We're we're gonna call CPS on you if you try to take your baby home now. We're like, we'll give him the antibiotics, but, like, we're gonna take no. We'll we'll call CPS on you. So, yeah, finished out our stay there. It was I remember they, made me sign a waiver to sleep with my baby. They're like, you need to leave him in the little plastic tub, and I was like they're like, it's not safe for him to be sleeping with you. And I'm like, you mean it's not safe for him to be sleeping in his mother's arms? Like, what are you talking about? So I had to sign a waiver for that. And then I guess the end of that experience was when we took him to see the pediatrician, you know, a few days after we were we were released from the hospital, he sat down with us and was like, I want to personally, like, apologize on behalf of basically, like, every everything that just happened was he because he was he was friends with the infectious disease specialist, and he was like, I talked to doctor whoever and, like, what they did to you guys and to your baby was completely unnecessary.
Speaker 2
Did you get that on tape and then sued their asses? But the thing is, like, this is the problem with going into a system rooted in pathology. Like, you and anyone bringing a baby into the system and going, is something wrong? They're gonna be like, well, let me do let me use all my toys to find Exactly. So, like, as far as they're concerned, they literally did right by your family. Like, obviously, one guy apologized to you, but that other dude, it's his job to use everything at his disposal to find something wrong.
Speaker 4
Right. Well, I found it interesting that we had several doctors before him who were like, okay. Just the whole, you know, jaundice rigmarole, and then this guy is, like, determined to find something deeper. Yeah. You're right. He was like it's like a game. It's like, oh, let me find all the way all the all the interventions I can Literally their job. Yeah.
Speaker 2
That's why it's so bonkers that we bring our children there and that we go there. It's it's such a weird, logic, you know, to be like, do everything harmful to find out if we're okay. Right. It's so upsetting, but I get it. Obviously, from your, you know, you had the the jaundice drama with your first kiddo, and we're still working it out.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I you know, it once again, peeling back those layers, you know, I felt so confident in my birth and my pregnancy. And then here I arrived at a point where it was like, oh goodness. So the healing of that comes in the next story with baby Kai. I got pregnant with Kai. No doctors. Nothing like that. Just went through it. So had
Speaker 2
How old was Sol when you got pregnant?
Speaker 4
Two, I believe. Yeah.
Speaker 2
And are you back in North Carolina yet?
Speaker 4
Yes. I'm living at we're living at my mom's house. And, yeah, I got pregnant with Kai. Just I mean, it was a rough pregnancy being around so many people and all that, and, then it was, like, in the middle of all the pandemic nonsense. And that was I that labor was, yeah, shorter. And I remember my water broke around six in the morning, and I was like, alright. Cool. Let's do this. And then twelve hours later, I'm like, what's hap like, nothing's happening. I'm ready for something to happen. You know? And, you know, my mom and her boyfriend had taken, Steven's Soul, so it was just you know, Brett and I kinda we're, like, playing games and, like, writing in our journals together. Like, alright. Let's make this happen. And probably, like, around six or seven in the evening is when, like, the real intense labor starts kicking in. And I remember at one point, I knew I could birth Kai then, but I was like, no. I need to rest. I need to, like, just lay down and rest for a little bit first. I'm just not ready. Like, I'm not ready to do it. I knew he was ready, and I just wasn't ready. So I just remember laying in the bed and, like, same thing going through through those contractions and being like, ah. And, my, my mom's boyfriend, bless him, I, like, told him I was like, I might want a toilet type thing again, like, I had with Soul, but I don't want it to be the toilet this time. So we found a chair, and he, like, cut a big hole in in the chair. So if I wanted to push the head out again sitting on a table yeah. So, I ended up I don't know if I I guess I did push his head out there again, but I think I was kind of, like, leaning against the the this chair when I fully pushed Kai out. And, yeah, that was like a a I really gave in to, like, the the the roars, like, the lioness just, being really loud, which is really nice. No one else in the house seemed to mind so much. My mom was so sweet. She just kept kind of popping in with just so much loving energy just to check on things. Like, it wasn't disruptive at all. It was just such love and then leaving respectfully. And, as soon as the baby was born, she came in and just, like, helped with cleanup. And I remember getting up being like, I need to go take a shower and starting to faint. My mom was like, no. You need to lay down. And then I wasn't prepared for how intense the contractions are for, like, for the placenta. The it I just didn't experience that. I mean, I don't I don't even remember birthing the placenta really with seed. And then with soul, I just it kind of birthed within you know? But the contractions I remember just, like, having Kai there and being, like, still having just these insane painful contractions and being like, oh, no one really warns you how bad that can be. So we're just, like, desperate to get the placenta out. And then, like, within a day, kind of seeing some of the little signs of jaundice on this in on Kai. And it was just so easy. I, like, really, at that point, had, I was just in, like, such total trust of all of it, and and it was very easy to be, like, keep him on the boob as much as possible and get him out in the sun. And I didn't stress about it. It was it was like, okay. There's a little bit of yellowness here. There you know, that's okay. Keeping you on the boob, getting out in the sun, seeing it, but just, like, knowing, like, this is this isn't this isn't as scary as, like, I've been led to believe. And I and I and I went into it knowing I'm I like, I'm not gonna give into this. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give into, like, the the fear around surrounding jaundice. And Also, the bilirubin lights are synthetic sunlight. Right. It doesn't
Speaker 2
it makes actually make any sense when you when you're a home birther. If you're, like, a c section woman in the hospital and you're gonna be there for five days and you're not gonna go outside and get sunlight, okay. Maybe, I guess. I don't know. Probably not. I still wouldn't do it. But still, you know, like at home, it doesn't actually make any sense
Speaker 4
to Makes no sense.
Speaker 2
Go in for synthetic support when it is, it is imitating everything we have. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Exactly. So, yes, at that point, it was just like, okay. Well, I get it. I like, it sucks to have learned the hard way and seen, you know, especially with Sol Ray, what he went through. Brutal. Yeah. I mean, Brett and I still just, like, we get really weepy about it if it comes up in conversation. He's sitting there playing with us, and we're just like, sweet thing. Just fucking torture, man. That's what it's torture. It's torture what they do.
Speaker 2
We we are learning the hard way and then we speak it and we'll teach it to our sisters. Absolutely. There will be women who hear your story who do not go into the system for support around jaundice.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 2
And then, hopefully, they just don't have to learn the hard way.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I I, actually ran into a situation, a couple weeks ago. I was selling at the market. I was selling my products, and, I have, like, a little sign that says book a session with me that I put out. And, you know, often people just, oh, what kind of sessions do you do? So this woman stopped. She's asking me, and I was like, oh, and I do birth work. And she's like, oh, so you're a doula. And I was like, oh, it's actually actually guiding I'm a radical birth keeper. It's guiding women who are more interested in autonomous birth and really just want support as they, you know, trust them themselves. And we kind of dig into it a little bit. And I was like, oh, well, you know, there's a lot of trauma that surrounding, like, the conventional, birthing system. And she was like, well, I had three babies in the hospital with epidural. So should I am I traumatized? Kind of. There's, like like, a little bit of snark to what she was saying, and I was like, oh, I've also had, a baby in the hospital and had my epidural, and I and I've and I've had a free birth with no nobody else there. And, yeah, there's a huge difference between the two. And but my point being is, like, as much as I carry, sadness for what my hospital birth gave me, I do appreciate being able to share that contrast. And, like, I I did do that, and I do know how, like, awful it is. And especially when you experience the other side of it and you're like, oh my god. It can be this? Birth can be this? It doesn't have to be that? Like so I I it is yeah. The learning the hard way does give us a richer story to share, and, you know, she kinda backed off at that point and was just like kind of like that. Alright. I respect you. You know?
Speaker 2
And, like, we're not here to tell other women they have trauma. Like Exactly. That's a silly e a defensive way, you know, of course, for her to take it. And also in the at the same time, it'd be very easy for me to argue that when a mother baby are birthed on drugs, there is inherently trauma to the systems, to the nervous system, to the, you know, physical, spiritual, you know, all of it. And and and also someone who doesn't wanna look at that is not, is not a good candidate for that conversation.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It was like quickly. I see what we're doing here. I'm not you know? And I'm like, I I make it a point to be like, I'm not here to convince anybody of anything. I'm just Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2
So, you know, things that stand out to me about you and about your, like, maturation process beyond these births is, you know, what you've what you've shared a little bit with me around navigating your oldest son and his his challenging years and his anger. And that's one thing that comes up if you wanted to just share anything around that because so many women are out there navigating big, big anger and confusion with their sons and possibly daughters. And, you know, people don't really talk about this stuff, and it's not it doesn't feel like a, yeah, like a welcomed exploration, I think, in in the public eye. Also, this beautiful repair and rewrite that you've done with your mother is so cool and so inspiring. And I think of how many women are out there currently struggling with their moms and that your story kind of, you know, can offer this, like, hope in that the story is not done.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing I didn't share that's really interesting in the story about my mom is during my first birth, at the hospital, I remember in the throes of the pain before I got the epidural, I looked over, and my mom was sitting in the corner of the room with headphones in on her tablet, just like doing something on her tablet. I was like, my sister's there, and a childhood friend is there with me, and I'm just and I just remember that image and just being, like, so hurt. And at this, you know, at this time in my life, I I have an awful relationship with my mom. And, and I remember referencing back to that many times to remind myself of, like, you know, I have a terrible relationship with my mom and kind of telling myself, like, this might never heal. And, you know, I think a lot of us tell you know, how could this ever be healed?
Speaker 2
What was your evidence?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Exactly. And I wanted to have that evidence because I I enjoyed the victim feeling of that story. And the the real healing moment for that to to totally, like, bring that full circle in this beautiful way was, during my my, labor with Kai, my mom, you know, she didn't she doesn't necessarily agree with she doesn't disagree. She doesn't she's kind of ambivalent. She's she's got the mindset of Vivian Deloitte's gonna do whatever she wants to do, so I'm not here to tell her what to do. I just need to support her. But she, like, held space like no other. She I you could I could just feel the energy of love. No judgment. No, like, fear. And, you know, my mom kinda tends to, like, dip into that side, you know, and it was just pure. She was there, like, in every way that I needed her, but she wasn't overbearing. Oh, it was so beautiful. I just have such a, yeah, it just brings me, like, so much joy to think how that healed and how like, the the contrast of that. Yeah. The healing my relationship with my mom has is something I'm so proud of. I talk about it at least once a day or I I every time I'm with my mom, I, like, I just, like, gaze at her, and I'm like, I you're my I just I'm so blessed. I'm so grateful to have a mom like you, because I realize you know what it is? I realize I'm just like her, or, like, or I'm intimidated I'm intimidated by the the things about her that, that maybe I want to become more like but struggle with. You know, my mom's always been a presence. And most of my life, I was, like, very introverted. So, I think a big part of it is accepting the truth of, like, how much I am like my mom and, and really, like, looking at for her at her for all of all of her beauty. And it's like you you things are what you put energy into. Right? So if I sat there and focused on the moments that annoy me, which I used to do all the time, the things about her personality that would maybe annoy me, And I don't do that anymore. She does something that annoys me, I just kinda brush it off or make a joke. Like, she's the one who taught me, like, have a good sense of humor about stuff. Like, laugh in, like, the serious dark moments. Like, bring it if you're annoyed so now she says something that annoys me, I just, like, say a really funny joke or something. Like, we find we found this way to communicate. So even if we're, like, not in the same place, we can still be loving and at peace. So I'm actually learning that, like, she is I think, she practices without thinking about it a lot of things that people spend years trying to learn. A lot of, like, Buddhist philosophies, she she has figured out without, like, studying it. She's just naturally there. I'd say I'm like, wow. My mom is just way more than I ever gave her credit for. So, yeah, that's really beautiful. And Steve oh, my Steve. Yeah. He went through a period three to five of, like, rough, I mean, anger to the point where, you know, my mom and her boyfriend and everyone was like, you know, Steve's needs help. He's got like, it's bad. He's got real serious issues. And I guess my the number one thing I've I've I've changed is realizing that, you know, our our children mirror our our our sense of self. You know, how much we love ourselves and how much we care for ourselves is is they witnessed that, and they it's so interesting. Like, you can't. There's no lying in this. There's no deceiving this. Like, your children are reflecting what it is you are feeling. It's energetic. It is not. You can tell your child one thing, but they know, and they feel it. And you really have to do the work to heal your wounds, to help them see you in your light, and then they can find more playfulness and step out of that anger. And now we've you know, Steve and I have this really I mean, it's not perfect, but we we we found this really these really beautiful ways to help him through his anger. We do, like, birthing meditations where he goes outside and he puts his feet and his hands in the dirt, and he he he does this thing where he goes, I release this energy. I release this energy. And, if he's, like, really angry, he, like, goes and yells into a pillow or, you know, we we've, like, come up with a you know, we try all kinds of stuff. But I think we're easily triggered into, responding a certain way when, you know, maybe we're embarrassed or maybe we're just, like, shocked and we're or we're, like, dis disrupted by our child's anger. But it really is true when they're, like, meet them with love. Meet them with love, like, even when it feels impossible because a child acting out really is just a child who needs connection. Like, it sounds so simple, but, you know, we're adults who get caught up in in all of it. And if Steve can, like, work past what we were seeing with him with his anger, I really believe in all children, and I'm, like, very hopeful because it was it was bad. And I really had to go deep, see that I will you know, especially we had, you know, three years of it being just me and Steve. I was a single mom, and, he heavily is influenced by my state. And even to this day, like, if I'm sick, if I get sick, he's it really affects him. You see a huge change in him. He gets you know? So, yeah, we have to do that's like we we owe that to our children to do as much personal healing and personal growth and learning a lot of the tools that you taught us in the RBK school, because that's actually like, seriously, so much that I've learned in the radical birthkeeping school has completely changed my entire life. I mean, every relationship that I have, it has completely changed. It has completely changed the relationships in the peep amongst, like, the people in my life outside of me just by what I've learned, changing my behavior Yeah. Realizing I can't change anybody else, but what I can do is change myself, and then people will kind of start paying attention and following suit. And it's been so beautiful.
Speaker 2
I loved having you in it. Well, tell everyone how they can find you because you have your own podcast that you're rocking, and you have all sorts of stuff going on.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I have a, I I'm an herbalist. I sell, skin care and herbal remedies. It's Mama Pachamama. You can find me at Mama Pachamama on Instagram, Mama Pachamama dot com, the Mom Pachamama podcast. I'm really milking I'm really milking the Mom Pachamama. And, yeah, it's all just, like, holistic, organic, all the things that, like, that I stand by. I, you know, I have a you know, some of my history before birth of, like, healing myself from childhood illness and things like that. So I just really stand by holistic modalities for healing, and I'm just all about that healing. So you can find me on there. And, yeah, I just finished the radical birthkeeping school, which was just, I I mentioned this to you, but I wanna say it on here that that was such an important thing to me because I have trauma associated with school in general. I didn't do well in school growing up, and I always felt forced on me. And so for the first time in my life, I invested in my education in something that, like, brought me light and joy. And so I came to the school being like, cool. I'll learn about free birth and, like, I'll learn about birth. That like, that's that's and, oh my god, had no idea. I didn't even, like, look into what the school was. It was just kind of like a, I think I wanna do this. Okay. I'm like, that's literally what I was like. I wanna do this. Okay. I wanna do it. And I would do it a thousand times over again. It has been the most healing healing that wound, the education, learning wound, and, the best investment I have made in my in, like, financial investment I've made in myself, and so many beautiful women I met through there. And, like, talking with you and Yolanda has been it's insane. Like, I you just don't know you don't know until you know. So you can have women tell you about how amazing the RBK school is, but until you experience it and immersed in it and, man, if you guys do it in person, that'll just be like
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, I wanna do level one probably won't ever be, but once yo can come to the states, level two in person is definitely a fantasy I'm still holding on to, but, obviously, it's not looking like it's not looking good out there. Yay.
Speaker 0
Alright, girlfriend.
Speaker 4
Hi, Emilee. Much. Thank you.
Speaker 3
Thank you.
Speaker 2
You too. Mwah. Bye. Bye. And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching. Learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, the complete guide to free birth. Don't miss the radical birth keeper school if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise and the revolution starts inside each of us. I'll leave you with our Freebird Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 3
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. Magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love, everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the star. Wild woman, she still lives in Sahar. Wild woman, from you, I will not hide. They could not burn
