Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild, I'm good. Into the wild, I'm here. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Imagine a land where women and girls run wild and free, where we're supported to feel, encouraged to express, and where we experience true collective healing. A place where we can play, laugh, and howl under the moon. Here, you can let your guard down and come back to the essence of wild womanhood. Your nervous system finally able to relax in the total absence of men and the total presence of sisterhood. Women call this the magic place. And as female only spaces continue to dwindle, securing land of my own for women's festivals has been a lifelong dream come to fruition. So I'm thrilled to announce and invite you to the second annual matriarch rising festival that will take place here in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina, June nineteenth through the twenty fourth. This is an exclusive wild woman's summer solstice gathering, a week of dancing, nude sunbathing, communing with the elements, singing, and falling in love with what it means to be alive as a woman. Tickets are officially on sale and they will sell out, so head over to matriarchrising festival dot com for all the details and to get your ticket. Can't wait to see you there. This week, we have Emilee, a former labor and delivery nurse turned free birthing mother. After starting nursing school when she was pregnant with her first daughter, Emilee quickly realized that licensure and hospital policies trump all else, and advocating for your patients can only go so far. After her birth with her second son, she removed herself from the medical system altogether and went on to have a wild pregnancy and a surprise breech free birth with her third.
Speaker 3
Alright. Emily, welcome. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4
I'm glad to be here with you.
Speaker 1
So, yeah, why don't you tell us
Speaker 3
a little bit about yourself and who you are and and how you came to be a free birthing woman?
Speaker 4
Sure. So I'm Emily. I'm a mother of three children.
Speaker 5
I'm a former nurse, L and D nurse,
Speaker 4
so that's interesting. We'll talk about that more. But I'm currently just a stay at home mom, homeschooling my oldest child, like so many of us who have chosen that path in the past year and a half. So that's kinda what's keeping me the most busy right now.
Speaker 3
You had your daughter first, and you were quite young. Right?
Speaker 4
I was twenty one. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And then and then you became the L and D nurse. Mhmm. After yeah. Okay. Got it. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So, essentially, I got pregnant when I was twenty, and I was kinda coming out of, like, a really difficult abusive relationship. And, I was actually coming out of addiction. I was addicted to heroin, so that was a whole other thing. But the pregnancy and everything was my opportunity to change my life, and that's exactly the row the route I took. So and being pregnant, I was kinda like, well, I gotta get my shit together, and I gotta go to school and do all these things that I, you know, should do. Were you already clean? And,
Speaker 3
like, is the is the father of the daughter the abuser?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So he's never been in the picture.
Speaker 5
He
Speaker 4
went to jail. And we were very codependent in that situation. So him going to jail, like, forced it. And then on top of that, the pregnancy was my wake up call for sure. Wow. So and, like, my daughter and I have kinda talked about that. I feel like she's old enough to hear, like, the basics of that. But as she gets older, I'm definitely gonna talk to her more about it and, like, let her know that she was, like, my, you know, saving light. So that's that's something that's really important to me and important to my story, so that's why I share that. But along with that, getting out of that, like I said, I felt like I needed to get everything in line. I have to be responsible now and everything. So that's what led me to nursing school. So I started nursing school when I was pregnant with her out of you know, just wanted to be responsible. So I had her at the hospital. It's kinda like your classic natural birth in the hospital as much as that can be a thing. That's that's how I framed it at the time for myself. I lived really close to the hospital at that point, with my parents and, like, two blocks away. So I waited to the last second to go because I still I knew I didn't want a epidural. The idea of not being able to, like, feel my legs really freaks me out. It more than any pain ever could. So I wasn't aware of much. I had read Anna May's book, like, the night before I went to labor, so that kinda like, all the birth stories
Speaker 3
were like gotta read them. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Like, something hilarious. Something inside of me knew. You know? Like, you need to, like, download some, like, legit information. You know? So I read that whole book in one night, and then I went into it the next morning. Yeah.
Speaker 3
I have a I have a girlfriend that with her
Speaker 1
I think it was her third, but it
Speaker 3
was her first, like, free birth. She was in she decided in labor to start finally reading about free birth and taking the course and all of this stuff.
Speaker 4
Isn't that funny? So funny. Oh, wow. It's it really is like, oh, shit. Like, this is for real.
Speaker 3
So you wait till the last second, meaning that were you living with your mom at the time?
Speaker 4
Yeah. And so you were in your mom's house laboring, and she was your support? Yeah. I mean, actually, that day, like, I I woke up having contractions, but I was, like, in total denial, which is what happens every time to me, apparently. And I, like, I literally went to school and, like, took my finals that day and, like, in labor. And then had, like, my friend come over for dinner and, like, breathing through contractions while I'm trying to eat. And I'm like, this is gonna go away. I have, you know, like, I I had finals all that next week. I'm like, I gotta I gotta get through this. And she came a week early, so I was thinking in my mind, like, I have one more week. It'll you know, this is this isn't really happening. And what
Speaker 3
what a disservice this whole, like, EDD thing does for people. Right? Like, a week early. No. She didn't come a week early. It doesn't make any sense. You know?
Speaker 4
Exactly. She came
Speaker 3
when she came. You did exactly what everyone advises women to do. You know? Like, you intuitively on some level to just, like, kinda not take too seriously, which shaved off over twenty four hours of you focusing on. That's amazing. I've tried to done that.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean and like I said, like, that's kind of what I've done every time where I'm kinda like, this is just prodromal labor. Like, back then, I didn't even know that term, but that's basically where I was at in my head. But yeah. So I waited until my water broke, essentially. My water broke and, like, my childhood dog, like, was licking it off the floor. And I'm like, I guess we better go. But yeah. So we got to the hospital. We parked in the wrong place. I didn't wanna walk around the whole hospital. I was, like, banging on the door where a security guard was, like, being like, can you please let me in the door? And he's, like, motioning, like, you need to walk to the ED. You know? I'm like, no. Because, like, he he did let me in, and I had her within, like, twenty minutes of Oh my gosh. Yeah. And, like, the nurses didn't take me seriously because, you know, I'm a young first time mom. They're a lot and I was quiet. Stoic was the word they used. But so they didn't believe that I was as far along as I was. They were like, well, we gotta get a room for you and, like, making me wait in the waiting room. I'm like, no. Like, I need to be back in that room now. Yeah. I mean, they got me back to a room and they checked me, and they told me I was nine centimeters, which whatever, who even I was probably complete, and they just didn't wanna tell me that. Mhmm. So they did have enough time to put a IV in me and, like, pump me full fluids, and, it was you know, I didn't have an epidural, and that was, like, my goal after reading book because I had figured out the trouble that can bring up for you. But so I felt like I had had my successful natural birth, but now I look back on it and it's like I was on my back. Everyone's screaming at me to push. I had an APJ on me because that was,
Speaker 0
you know
Speaker 3
Oh my god.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Totally unnecessary. I had all this fluid in my body, and, of course, they gave me pit after for the placenta. And it really, like, set me up for a lot of failure with breastfeeding my daughter because I was so swollen. I remember trying to nurse her, and the nurses were like, oh, you got flat nipples. She can't latch on to you and blah blah blah. And I'm like, well, I've never noticed these flat nipples you speak of ever in my life, you know, staring, you know, looking at my breasts my whole life. This has never been a thing. And now, you know, knowing what I know now, I'm like, I was so swollen from all the IV fluids. So and then, you know, she her birth weight was artificially high. So then when I go into the peed a week later and they're like, well, she's down all this weight And I feel like a failure, and I'm crying, and they're you know? Here's some formula. So
Speaker 3
And this and this is a woman you know, this is the natural birth. Yeah. Right? And so it creates so much confusion. Obviously, you figured this out, you know, now, but but so many women are in that place right now today of being like, wait. But I had a natural birth. Why would I be struggling? Is something, like, wrong with me? Right? Like, it just perpetuates the insecurities and the confusion that you you are walking around thinking, like, but didn't I have, like, a good birth? Right. Exactly.
Speaker 5
It sucks.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
And now, like, knowing what we know about, like, Pitocin and its link to postpartum anxiety and depression and all of that, like, I look back on that, and I'm like, well, of course, I felt the way I felt. And there were other, you know, personal factors too. I mean, not having a partner at the time and all that, but that certainly all played into it. And then, you know, feeling unsuccessful because I felt like I had to supplement with nursing. And then I got brushed, and then, you know, she had a tongue tie that never got revised because no one diagnosed it. So, I mean, I went on to nurse her for four years. So we pushed through it. And that's like I talk about breastfeeding a lot, and that's why. Because I'm like, the gifts that I got from it, from persevering through all the bullshit really, like, taught me to trust myself. In that time, you know, coming out of that addiction and out of everything, like, that's what I needed. So Totally.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So then you finish nursing school. What brings you to l and d? How does that all go? Because I know you have some
Speaker 4
whistleblower secrets. Yeah. I I worked for a few years in, like, med surg and oncology and palliative care. I did that. And then we moved out further into, like, a rural area, and I wanted to stop driving into the city. So the job they had open there was l and d, and that was something I had always been interested in just because I am, you know, clearly interested in women's health. You know, I have the whole attitude of, like, I'm gonna go in there and, like, be this shining light for women, you know, who wanna have natural births.
Speaker 3
Like, you wanted to be you you probably like so many women, so many nurses and midwives, like, you're gonna be the unicorn.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's unrealistic. That's it. It it just is. Because you go into the system and all these people have been in the system for years, and they're indoctrinated into their way of
Speaker 3
banking, and there's no changing their minds. And they're who pays your paycheck. So, like, you can only do so much. Like Right. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I and I I figured that out really quickly. So I only worked there for, like, nine months because I felt so uncomfortable doing what I had to do in order to do my job there. And ultimately and this is why I've now I don't work as a nurse anymore, and I won't for multiple reasons, especially with current events. But nurses answer to doctors and the nursing board and hospitals. And that's point blank. But, you know, we you may want to go in there and help your patients, advocate for your patients, and you can do that up to a certain, you know, degree. Mhmm. But if there's any controversial anything, it's over, you know, for for you and and your advocacy. And and it's all because you're working under that license. And, you know, it's not to say that there's not nurses who have good intentions or whatever.
Speaker 3
But they're quite low on the power totem pole. I mean, it's a very, very intentional, very strong hierarchy. Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Nurses
Speaker 3
are are are maybe even on the bottom of the hospital hierarchy. And the amount of abuse that they take Yeah. Both verbal and physical Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, for my previous job I had before that, you know, I was assaulted, by patients on multiple occasions. And it's just the culture. It's just well, you just you know, that's just part of the job. That's just how it goes.
Speaker 3
Damn it. That's crazy. I wasn't even talking about patients. I was thinking of, like, how, you know, your staff doctors. Nurses well, verbal abuse from the doctors, I'm sure patients too, but also, like, you know, not being allowed bathroom breaks, like, being so dehydrated, like, being on your feet for twelve plus hours and, like, I I I've known nurses who they were so overworked and weren't allowed breaks. It was I mean, it's illegal, but it still happened all the time.
Speaker 4
I mean, I I just got a check in the mail for a lawsuit from my previous employer for them not, allowing us enough time to eat. Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Exactly. What what are some things that stand out to you that maybe a woman listening to this podcast who is unfamiliar with the system, what is what are some, like, things you think a mother and a woman should know about l and d?
Speaker 4
Well, I mean, the thing that sticks out in my brain is hospitals run by policies. Policies aren't laws, by the way. But everything is you have to go by the policy, the protocol. It doesn't matter what your wishes may be. Doctors work under they work under the hospital system too. They work in a way where they're operating, in a way where they're trying not to get sued. Like, that's that's they will use every safety protocol. They work to save their ass. That's kind of the whole thing. And they most of them. I can't generalize everybody, but what I've seen is they think they know better than you, and they treat you like that in many cases. And a lot of women will just be like, well, they do know better than me because they're the expert. And they may know techniques and medication and all that kind of shit, but ultimately, you as a woman are the ultimate authority over your body and your baby and your birth. And the doctors don't like this. Any woman who has that attitude, that's that's a issue if anything comes up in birth. Well, it's
Speaker 3
kinda like back to the hierarchy thing. Like, it's it's very clear how the hospital system plays and the doctors are very, very high up Mhmm. On the hierarchical pyramid, and the patients are quite low, which is not technically what, like, their oath is supposed to be about. But how it actually plays out is definitely that the doctor is more powerful. And so when a woman comes in with a whiff of that, it doesn't fit the it doesn't fit how it's supposed to go. It doesn't fit the program. Exactly.
Speaker 4
And, like, that's another thing is, like, birth in the hospital is just a set of, like, check marks. It's like, okay. We're gonna start your pit and then give you fluids and then put your monitors on. And, you know, if things don't pick up soon, we'll give you more pit. And, like, the actual birth, you know, it's like set the table up, get your legs up in the stirrups, take, you know, your catheter out and It's an assembly line. Yeah. Exactly. And it's like I hated it as a nurse because I'm over there, you know, by the mom's head checking stuff off my list and charting, you know, vitals and, you know, what the heart rate monitor says and, like, time of birth. And then you take the baby and then you do the weight and the all the, you know, all the stuff. And there's no reverence for the experience that the mother is having or and the baby and the family. You know? It's just this is this is what we do, and it's because they see it every day or whatever.
Speaker 3
Also, we have abused nurses taking care of the patients.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Like, what is what kind of care is that going to result in? You know? Right. But didn't you say that there was, like that you were taught to tell when you did vaginal exams to tell women that they were not as far along as they really were? Yeah.
Speaker 4
That like, when I was being trained, to do cervical checks, that was that that was one of the things that they said just because it'll make them get into a headspace that they don't want them to be in yet because we need time to, like, call the doctor and, like, set everything up and all that kind of stuff. But, I mean, honestly, cervical checks were why I quit that job because I felt so deeply uncomfortable and wrong doing it. And I don't think I could have even, like, articulated it at the that time, like, why it made me feel that way. But now having had my tube free burst after working event space and, you know, having pregnancies where no one touched me, I realized like none of there's no reason for it. And I think about working there and it's like why why exactly was I having to put my fingers in these women's vaginas when they're in pain? And, you know, like, I feel deep regret and guilt about that. Honestly, that's like a piece that is very difficult for me. And it's because of my own indoctrination to listen to the authorities. You know? It's the doctors saying, like, go check her. I need to go, you know, figure out what my night's gonna be like if I'm on call or not. You know?
Speaker 3
Like, she's a fucking cow. Yeah. Go check her. Mhmm. Go go finger her while she's in labor and nobody I mean, it's so it's so beyond. Like, when's the last time a stranger had fingers inside of your vagina?
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 3
Like, that is, like, why is that in this one context totally expected and acceptable? And, like, the random I'm thinking of, like, we have so many workers, like, coming to the house to help us with all of, you know, all of the stuff we have going on, and they're just, like, random guys. But, like, if you put a a white coat on him and put him in the hospital, we would all let him finger us. You know? Like, it's fucking nuts.
Speaker 4
It's insanity. Honestly. Yeah. For real.
Speaker 3
Of course, women are numb. Of course, they're choosing to be numbed out. Duh. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Wacky wacky. And and it's so sad. It's so sad of the indoctrination. And I totally know what you mean. I mean, I have my own versions of that being a doula. I wasn't doing vaginal exams, but I was definitely, like, trying to help keep the woman calm while she was getting a vaginal exam she didn't want. You know? I mean, I was definitely a part of enabling
Speaker 4
Mhmm. Assault. Yeah. You know? It's the holding the hands while the legs are up in the stirrups, you know, telling her when to push that whole.
Speaker 2
Honey, this is just something they have to do. They have to get your baby out. They have to
Speaker 3
get your baby out. Yeah. So rare. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So who how do you go from L and D, new mom, into becoming a pre birthing woman?
Speaker 4
I think, like, I've always been a subversive thinker, I guess, my whole life. And I I quit that job, and I went and I actually worked as a school nurse for a little while, which was a whole different world. And kind of transitioning from the hospital to, like, more community health made me realize, like, I really don't ever wanna work in a hospital again. And now that I've had my babies and I haven't worked at the school, I'm like, I don't ever wanna work as a nurse again, period. Because that job is, you know, the vaccine police, basically. So I got pregnant with my son and wasn't exactly sure what I wanted. I knew that I didn't wanna have a hospital birth again. I listened to your podcast. That's definitely a part of the transition from being a nurse, having the hospital birth, and then realizing that there's other options. But I still had some of that medical mindset. So I was like, well, I'm gonna go and use the birth center at the hospital. I went to, like, two or three appointments there, and I was like, this seems like the hospital. It's it's a birth center, but it's the hospital. I I sought different care after that.
Speaker 3
It's like sorry. It's just it's making me think of, like, when people say they're trans. It's like a man in a dress saying they're a woman. It's like, we all know that you're a man, but you're saying you're a woman because you're wearing a dress, and so everyone's acting confused. It's like the birth center. Like, we all know it's the hospital. You can see with your eyes
Speaker 5
that
Speaker 3
it smells like the hospital, acts like the hospital, but it just has, like, a comforter on a bed.
Speaker 4
You know? That's what I was gonna say. It's just prettier. Yeah. It's a costume. Yeah. Exactly. Crazy. Just just furniture and, like, you know, wood floors and all that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Well, they're lying. They're liars. Yeah. It's all a show. Yeah. And that's that's that's the thing there. So I I figured that out pretty quickly, and I was like, this is this isn't for me. I remember going and then taking my blood pressure, and I had been in, like, horrible traffic, had to, like, drive all over the place trying to find a parking spot. So, like, my blood pressure was slightly slightly elevated, and they're, like, giving me all these lectures. I'm like, I live an hour away. I just drove here, you know, in horrible traffic. Of course, I'm anxious.
Speaker 5
So of
Speaker 4
course my blood pressure is high and like I'm like I don't wanna be lectured for things that I understand. Like I know what's going on with my body so I don't need this from you. I found a midwife. In Missouri, CPMs are legal, so I went that route. And she was cool. Like, I really got along with her. She was a good midwife, and she was very hands off and let me make any decision for myself, which, you know, saying let me is even, like, an issue in and of itself. But for the most part, she she was good. I liked her. I enjoyed, you know, talking with her and everything. But when it came down to birth and, like, the idea of having somebody in my house, even though I had, like, you know, built a relationship with her over the months, I she still felt like a stranger, and she's felt like that because she still held this level of authority over me. And the idea of having her in my house while I'm in labor really made me anxious in the weeks leading up to labor. And I had also been listening to Freebird Society and, like, reading. Yep. Yep. So that that was, you know, a little bug was in my my head. When I went into labor, it was overnight, and I decided to get out of bed and go downstairs. My partner was upstairs. My daughter was upstairs sleeping. And being in my own home in the dark and allowing myself to move the way I needed to move without, like, eyes on me and, like, make the sounds I needed to make. Like, I'm a very loud person in birth. And I remember, like, with my first in the hospital, like, having to feel self conscious on some level even though I was, like, in birth land. Mhmm. There's still, like, the self conscious thing happening because, you know, I'm like, I sound like I sound when I have sex, and these people are looking at me. You know? So, yeah.
Speaker 3
And the sounds are, like, one of twelve very intimate things that you're doing and sharing. Right?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. And I'm, like, a a more introverted person anyway. So, like, anything anything like that makes me uncomfortable just by default. So then it's like we're going deeper and deeper into the layers of birth and, how intimate it is. And I don't I don't want people there. And like I said so being in my house and being able to do that and not even having my partner or my daughter there for the majority of the labor, I was in that, and I was like, this is what I need. Like, I can't I can't call the midwife. I don't want her here. And it's definitely like the whole thing where people talk about, like, oh, like a cat, like hiding away in a closet or something. I started, like, getting that image in my head when I was, in labor. And I've always, like, had this connection since I was a child to, like, feline energy, I guess. And I was, like, envisioning that, and I was like, I need my little nest. I need to be alone. I need to be able to focus and go to this other place without prying hands or eyes or you know? So I labored by myself through the whole night. You know, I got in and out of the bath and walked through the kitchen and held on to the countertops and just made progress that way. And then, like, right as the sun came up, I was like, shit's getting real. Like, I better go wake him up. You know? So I went and I woke up my partner, and I had my son about ten minutes later. So,
Speaker 3
yeah. Hey.
Speaker 4
It's just funny because, like,
Speaker 3
the whole time
Speaker 4
I was pregnant, I had this, like, thing in my head, like, oh, he's gonna, like, hold me and help me through this. And, like, I think we did that through one contraction. It was, like, the last one. That's funny. I had him in the bathroom on the toilet. Nice. Yeah. So I I got in there. I had that last big contraction where he did, like, rock with me through it. I was loud enough that I woke my daughter up. So they're both, like, standing in the bathroom door because we have this tiny little house that, like, no one else can even fit in the bathroom with me. Pushed his head out when I was on the toilet, and then I was like, better better get off. So I just caught him myself, like, right leaning in front of the the toilet there. And it was a sweet moment. Like, my daughter got to see it, and she said, yeah. She was like, you did it, mama. And that was really, really sweet. And there's lots of tears and happiness. And he latched right on. And it it was feeling the confidence that I felt after that knowing that I had allowed myself to listen to my intuition, which in my nursing career and life in general, I was always like a very naturally subservient type of person just because that was, like, kinda how I was raised. You know, you need to listen to authority. You need to do this and that. And, like, it's easy to push your intuition away when you have that mindset. Hell, yeah. So, yeah,
Speaker 3
it's the point. Uh-huh.
Speaker 4
So knowing that I was able to, like, get through that in this moment where everything was so intense really allowed myself to, like I I feel like I got deeper into who I really am. And in doing so, that led to my next pregnancy where and also, like, I decided that's when I quit my job. I was like, I'm not I'm not going back. I'm not doing this anymore. I'm going to focus on my home and my children. And, like, that's what I had always wanted, but I didn't have the wherewithal to, like, allow myself to make that choice and prioritize it as a matter of, like, maturing as a person. Because I just, like, wrote this post about this the other day, but, like, you know how people will say babies bring abundance. And I never really understood that until I had that birth because, like, maybe I don't have, like, financial abundance because I quit my job. But that is the, like, definition of abundance to me because now it's like I made the choice to be frugal and to shift things in my life so I can be home with my children, so I can homeschool my daughter through all this fuckery that's going on out in the world. And I was able to get there because of that birth, honestly. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
So Really? Yeah. I mean, I think, fundamentally, it's why birth has been so co opted and stolen. Right? Like, if women were walking around feeling powerful and feeling, you know,
Speaker 5
like,
Speaker 3
I think that raw, primal, wild motherhood doesn't allow for bullshit. Mhmm. You know? Yeah. Something happens. Exactly.
Speaker 5
Where you
Speaker 3
just, like, can't handle it anymore.
Speaker 4
You know? I've seen that with so many women. Yeah. I mean, it's like your blinders
Speaker 5
are off all
Speaker 4
of a sudden. Because you realize, like, what you really are, like, what lives within you.
Speaker 3
And that you're powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Like, internally resourced and
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So then you breastfed no problem. That's huge. Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That was, like, a totally, yeah, different experience. And and that's why, you know, we had the undisturbed birth, so breastfeeding, oh, you know, it was just easy, which I'm grateful for for sure. And then
Speaker 3
did you, like, tell the midwife?
Speaker 4
So we called her, like, right after, and she did send, like because she was actually at another birth, so she won't have been able to make it anyway.
Speaker 3
That's funny.
Speaker 4
It's kinda funny. She sent a coworker, who I I don't even know if she was actually a midwife. I think she was, like, a midwife in training to come and check on me. So they did that. They helped clean up and everything. And that's nice. Yeah. And and that was fine. So my middle child, Rowan, he was seven months when I got pregnant again without my cycle. So I thought I was in the clear and clearly I needed to learn a little bit more about fertility awareness and all that. I I remember, like, I know exactly when it happened. And I remember thinking, like, oh, I think I might get my period soon. Wow. Because I was cramping, but it was ovulation.
Speaker 5
Oh my
Speaker 3
god. So yep. It totally takes you by surprise.
Speaker 4
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was like, with my first two, it was like a situation where I knew I was pregnant the second it happened. The second he pulled out, like, I'm pregnant and I know it. But with this one, it was not that way because I wasn't even in the headspace where I could even comprehend having another baby again so soon. So I didn't even find out till I was, like, seven or eight weeks. All of a sudden, I was just like, I can't stand the smell of chicken cooking. Like, oh, here we are. Okay. Okay. So you find
Speaker 3
out you're six to eight weeks pregnant. Your kiddo is nine months ish. Mhmm. And how does that go?
Speaker 4
Well, I was I was surprised. I was sad, honestly. Because I I and it was because of him. Like, I felt like I was taking something away from him, like, his babyhood and, like, our you know, I was anxious about our breastfeeding relationship and my milk supply and all that. So there was definitely, like, a grieving period where, like, I didn't even tell my partner for probably, like, three or four days because I just, like, had to, like, be with it in my head myself because I didn't want to tell him when I was still feeling, like, sad about it. Yeah. So it was, you know, more of a transition for me than than him, for sure. So because he was like, well, great. Let's do it. I'm like, yeah. It's it's not that easy for me. But, you know, I moved out of that, you know, fairly quickly into being grateful and excited and happy. But at the same time, having to deal with the breastfeeding thing with my older baby. So we kept going and everything was fine for a little while. And then I started realizing, like, he was getting really, like, pissed when he was nursing out of frustration because there wasn't much there or I don't know if, like, you know, they say the taste changes and all that. So he was about ten months old when that started happening. So I just supplemented him with raw milk and called it a day and kept nursing him, though. And he was eating a lot of food at that point too. So we cut nursing. He eventually was just dry nursing, which he was happy to do that. I was kinda like it was, you know, all the hormones were making everything really sensitive and everything. But it was really important to me to allow him to do what he needed to do because he was so so little. Like, if he was, like, two or three, I might have been like, okay.
Speaker 3
Get about it. Yeah. You could, like, literally go forage your own food at three.
Speaker 4
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So
Speaker 3
Yeah. But you're trying I mean, it's an effort to retain his babyhood also Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Which is totally understandable. Yeah. And stay connected in that way.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Totally.
Speaker 4
Knowing the new baby would be there soon, I wanted to get as much snuggle time
Speaker 5
with him
Speaker 4
as possible too. Wow. So
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. So tell us tell us that this new birth story.
Speaker 4
So this pregnancy, I, I just it was a wild pregnancy. I never saw any sort of practitioner. And I think for two reasons, I went that route and that first thing, you know, with everything that's going on in the world in the past year and a half, like, I did not want to be subjected to any sort of, like, craziness in the hospital or having to be you know, even if I got a midwife and then eventually had to get transferred or something, you know, which is what would have happened because, you know, spoiler alert, my baby was breech. So I would have had an automatic c section, and I didn't want my baby seeing my face for the first time covered up and no. Yeah. So
Speaker 3
Sure. That's great. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So that was that made the decision really easy. I I think I would have gone that route anyway, but it was kind of like, I don't even need to think about this. And also with having had my middle child so recently and going through that pregnancy, like, as much as I said, you know, like, I enjoyed my midwife. She was, like, a cool person or whatever. You know, I go to these appointments. She takes my blood pressure. She palpates my belly. We listen to the baby's heart rate. I'm like, I don't really need someone else to do that. Like, I can do these things myself. I'm perfectly capable. I felt like I was going into this pregnancy with, like, more wisdom than I had in the past. Like, obviously, my path wasn't to have my first few wild pregnancies or, you know, my first was in the hospital. Like, my path was to, like, work my way up to this. And I was able to because of my previous experiences. So
Speaker 3
And I'm not up, but, like, work your way out. Yeah.
Speaker 4
You know? Exactly. Dodging all the bullshit in the middle. But, right. So that pregnancy, it, you know, it was wonderful to not have to go to appointments to just feel into, like, what the experience really meant for myself without, like, other voices or ideas or opinions being injected into my experience. So that was really freeing and realizing, like, I can do this. This is not this is everything that everyone ever did before, you know, the last, what, like, two hundred years or whatever. So there were things I had to work through about. Like, my baby or my placenta was interior, and so I didn't feel her move until I was, like, twenty three weeks pregnant, which my first two, I you know, I remember I think with my first, I remember feeling her about, like, fourteen weeks normal. And then with Rowan, my middle child, like, I felt him at, like, ten weeks, like, at a you know, when they say you can't. And I was like, no. I know what I'm feeling. So I was kind of expecting that to happen again. Like, oh, I'm so in tune with myself, and I'm gonna and so I was like, what? What's happening? That was, you know, anxiety producing for sure. Like, I I had to sit with that every night because I would, like, lay down to go to sleep and be like, well, this is normally when I would feel the baby. Mhmm. When everything's quiet and I'm alone and and I'm not feeling it. So I had to go to that dark place of being like, well, it's still early. And if something's wrong, then something is wrong and your body will take care of it and trusting that too. Yeah. Which, you know, it it does take a lot of inner work to get through that. But everything was fine. I did. I will I will say, like, even once I was feeling her and, like, everything you know, I started feeling better. I wasn't having morning sickness anymore and getting into the part of pregnancy that's kinda, like, smooth coasting for a little while. I did have this sense that, like, something is different about this one. Like, not wrong, but different. And I felt that way the whole the whole time. The breach? Yeah. Yeah. She was breach. And I didn't I had I think, maybe somewhere inside of myself, I knew knew that, and that's what I was picking up on. But, like, I would palpate my belly. I would listen with the fetoscope. And, like, I was hearing heart rate low and, like, the way my belly felt, like, I was like I I had convinced myself she was the way she was supposed to be. And now that I think about it, I'm like, well, I did have, like, that bump over here on my left side and, like, it felt like my belly was really tender to the touch. Like, it felt like I had a bruise almost. But now now that I know she was breech, I'm like, well, that was her head, and that was, like, her bones on her head poking my belly. So yeah. Yeah. That so she was a surprise breach. I did not know she was breached.
Speaker 0
That's what
Speaker 4
I was just gonna ask. Wow. With her labor, her labor was also different. And, like, in the sense that my first two, the contractions built and built and built, and my water broke very close to the time of birth and had the baby. And with her, my water broke first. I went into labor with her on the evening of Mother's Day this year on the new moon and everything. And I woke up with contractions, like, at midnight. And I went and I took a bath. And as I got out of the bath, I realized that my water was breaking, and there was it was pink and everything. So I was like, well, I guess this is it. I was I was thirty nine and four, at that point, and I had been going through prodromal labor for days. So I was like, well, this is it. So it was kind of the same thing. It was the middle of the night, and I just worked through it on my own. But my contractions were really irregular and spread out. So, basically, like, if I was in the warm water or if I was lying down, They didn't go away, but they were, like, ten to fifteen minutes apart. And when I had them, they were really strong, but they were all over the place and spread out. So I'm like, well, I better get some sleep because this isn't going anywhere right now. So I was able to get a little rest. And then when I got up in the morning, I told my partner what was going on, and he kinda took the kids. They did their thing so I could rest. And while I was resting, I'm like, I started getting, like, anxious. I'm like, this I want this to, like, start picking up. So I realized, like, anytime I stood up, it was like gravity. I instantly started having more contractions. So I was like, I need to go take a walk. And, thankfully, it was nice day in May. We live on six acres of property in the woods, so I took, like, a nature walk with my daughter through the woods. And, like, I started out on that walk being, like, totally, like, chill and fine, and it was probably, like, a fifteen minute walk. And by the time we were done, I was, like, literally hugging trees, like, holding on to the trees, like, telling myself, yeah. Like, let the earth take this for you, that kind of thing. I'm like, I need to get inside. Like, I had had this idea too, like, while I was pregnant about, like, giving birth outdoors. But, like, in that moment, I was like, I need to walk up that hill and get the fucking house. You know? That's what I did. And I laid down in our room just, like, blocked the windows off and, laid in the dark. Because at that point, I was like, I just wanna be alone. I wanna rest. Like, it was kind of the denial thing. Again, I was like, I'm just gonna lay down and maybe, like, I'll feel better. You know? But it was, like, from the moment I laid down to her birth, it was, like, less than an hour. So I had been in labor for, like, sixteen hours at that point, but it was really, like, I took that fifteen minute walk. I laid down for half an hour, and then I had her. So it it just, like, took off at that point. But my partner had, like, gone outside because he's like, well, I know you wanna be alone, and it might be a while. He was way down where our chicken coop is, like, messing with the chickens, and I got up out of bed. I'm like, where where is he?
Speaker 3
Where is everybody?
Speaker 4
I'm, like, waddling outside, like, yelling. I'm sure our neighbors heard me, but I'm like, you need to get up here. And by the, like, the time it took him to walk up to the house, I was in the kitchen on my hands and knees. Like, I had no, like, choice. Like, my body was just like, get on your hands and knees. He, like, walks in the door, and I'm I'm there on my hands and knees. And, also, at that point, I had just taken my pants off, and I realized, like, the wetness I was feeling. You You know, I was just in my head. I was like, you know, it's my water's leaking more. But I had meconium, in my underwear. So and it was, like, thick. So I I was kinda, like, shifting in my head to fear at that point. But at the same time, I was like, I knew I knew my body. I knew my contractions were at the point where I'm like, this is, like, happening now. So I just need to focus on birth, getting the baby out, and I can't, like, let fear cloud my my job right now. So I got, like, tried to get in the bathtub and have the water birth and all that, but my body was just like, you need to sit on the toilet again, like what I had done with my son. But at the time, we were redoing our bathroom downstairs, so there was no toilet. And the only other one was upstairs. So I was like and and this was probably, like, less than five minutes before I had her. So I was having, like, super intense interactions. And, like, that walk up those stairs was, like, the hardest work physical work of my life, honestly. Because I almost had her at the bottom of the stairs. My partner was, like, underneath me, like, getting ready to catch her. And I was like, no. I need to sit down on the toilet. So I got up there and pushed what I thought was her head out on the toilet. And then I fell down and it was a butt. And my brain, like, took a minute to really, like, comprehend. Like, I was like, what am I feeling? Like, I was so, like, lost in, like, this other world. And it it really I was, like, truly confused for a minute. And then, you know, it dawned on me what was happening. So I I got off the toilet, and I felt I was kind you know, between the meconium and the knowing she was breached at that point, I I was like, I wanna get this baby out. I wanna get her out. I wanna make sure she's okay. But then I felt her rotate. And, like, just feeling her wiggling around was, like, such motivation to me, like or for me because I was like, oh, she's here. She's almost here. So she was complete reach, so her legs were all the way up. And I had just read, like, the day before. It's kinda like my first birth. I had read spiritual midwifery, and I was reading about breech babies. So I'm sure somewhere in my, you know, psyche, I knew she was breech. But I the thing that had stuck out was, like, you don't touch the breech baby when they're when they're emerging. So my partner, like, went to go, like, get her legs out, and I was like, don't touch her. And he he listened, and we were able to get her out in one more push. So it was just two pushes. And, you know, she was my smallest baby. She was six point eight pounds, but I brought her to my chest. She took a second to adjust, but then she immediately just started crying, like, softly and latched on, like, no big deal just like with my second. Yeah. So it's just a variation of normal. Like, I I got really into, like, after I had her, like, looking folk tales up and all this, like, folklore that surrounds breech babies and trying to you know, I think it's, like, three to four percent of babies are breech. And, like, at this point in time, like, almost all of them are c sections.
Speaker 5
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
So knowing, though, it's like it's it's it is just a variation of normal. And in most cases, it requires nothing. It requires hands off care.
Speaker 5
So
Speaker 3
it's a variation of normal that comes with its own set of unique risks or, like, possible complications, but just like a head down comes with its own unique set of risks and possible complications. Like, every just like twins, variation of normal comes with its own set of possible risks and complications. Right? Like, it's all just it's just so Yeah. Variations of normal and and complications and emergencies are all so confused in industrial birth. It's confused
Speaker 5
on us.
Speaker 4
Entangled with each other. Yeah. And, like, that risk is something that every person needs to assess for themselves. So you know?
Speaker 3
Yeah. I love I love Yolanda. Something she said a long time ago to me, and, I mean, I'm sure she has said it publicly too, but, someone asked her about a breech birth and she said, oh, well well, if if I knew my baby was was breech, then I would even more so commit to birthing at home because it's that or surgery. And it's like, yeah. Yeah. Those are not that's not a good option. Like Exactly. Lactic unnecessary surgery for a variation of normal is fucking insane.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. They're not trained in it anymore. So that's that's just doctor.
Speaker 3
I think it's more than that. I think it's more than that because how much training do you need to watch a baby come out. Right? That's true. Your husband literally had zero training, and he did a great job.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Exactly. He's proud of that too.
Speaker 3
Deliver your baby. You know?
Speaker 4
Like Yeah. It's all
Speaker 3
it's all weird, but I don't think it's just that it's no training. I think it's, you you know, everything works off of incentive. And so the question is, like, what's the incentive to bring vaginal breech back? What's the incentive? And there isn't an incentive if you think about the money.
Speaker 4
Yeah. The money and then the risk that they
Speaker 3
are consolidating. Culture now. Right? So the culture is, like, providers who do breach or who allow breach to happen in their presence Mhmm. Are vilified, and Mhmm. They're they're ostracized.
Speaker 4
And it's
Speaker 3
quite it's quite the cultural taboo.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Which
Speaker 3
But I love that. I love surprise breaches because it proves the point. You know? Yeah. Normal, and we've had a couple other surprise breach stories on the podcast. And
Speaker 4
Uh-huh.
Speaker 3
It's just so great to be like, yep. There you go. Not that big of a deal.
Speaker 4
Right. Like yeah. I got her butt out and then, you know, had my realization that she was a breach and then just gave birth like any other birth. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4
Oh, thank you. And
Speaker 2
And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching, learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, the complete guide to free birth. Don't miss the radical birth keeper school if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise and the revolution starts inside each of us. I'll leave you with our free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 6
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons
Speaker 5
all your
Speaker 6
poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the
Speaker 0
star. Conscious conception. Conscious conception. Wild woman, she still lives in inside. Wild woman, learn from you while I'm running. I still run, run, run,
Speaker 5
run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run,
Speaker 0
run, run, run, run, run, run, run,
Speaker 5
run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run
