Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child since I left my roots back home. Into the wild, I'm good. Into the wild, I'm here. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative. We'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
If you're like most of my listeners, you are devouring these episodes, fascinated by the women's stories and wondering if you could do this too. Do you wish that you had a step by step strategy for how to actually plan and manifest your free birth? Our complete guide to free birth is the number one course for free birth, and we made it for women just like you. It's a self guided online intensive course that will teach you everything we think you need to know about how to birth freely and in your power. We'll take you all the way from unpacking industrial care to what DIY prenatal care looks like, how to pick and prep your support team, what to expect, look out for, and how to shift when more support could be needed. Yes. We'll cover the what ifs, how to prevent complications, and how to orient your entire life towards a powerful birth. So head on over to free birth society courses dot com now and take the first step towards the birth of your dreams. Despite learning in her pregnancy that the baby Amana was growing would be incompatible with life, Amana as a first time mother decided to move forward with her plan to birth her daughter at home. Through this first birth experience, she learned that birth and death are one. Amana shares with us today the wisdom of a resilient woman who has walked through the fires of free birth, death, life, and loss again and again.
Speaker 3
Welcome, Amana.
Speaker 4
Thank you. Thank you. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Excited to have you here, and I know you have lots of stories and lots of different stories to share. Yeah. Let's just dive on in. Take us to the beginning of where you would kind of mark your mothering journey beginning.
Speaker 4
Well, for me, I was one of those people who always I always knew I wanted to be a mom. I was obsessed with babies and birth from a very young age. There are photos of me, like, feeding my next door neighbor who's fifteen months younger than me, like, standing on telephone books and, like, feeding her in her high chair.
Speaker 3
Oh, that's cute.
Speaker 4
So I just always knew I wanted to be a mom. And then I found myself, like, in my early thirties without children, without a a man to make babies with, and put a call out to the universe to and to my soul babies. I knew that I had soul babies, and I asked them to help me find my my soul flame and their father. And I did a forty day ritual and asked him to meet me at this festival and this little butterfly flew in front of my face and led me to him and he yeah. He proposed two weeks later and we got married a few months later and we're open for our soul babies to come through, you know, shortly after that.
Speaker 3
Wow.
Speaker 4
And so, yeah. At that time, I had been attending birth as a birth assistant for a few years already. You know, had witnessed home births and birth center births and knew that I wanted to have my babies at home. And we conceived our first little spark of life, my first little wombly, and I was super excited. And then at six weeks, I started to bleed and had an early birth with that baby. I was sad and, you know, mad. But
Speaker 3
Was that your first pregnancy ever?
Speaker 4
Yeah. My first pregnancy ever.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Did you just stay home and release the pregnancy?
Speaker 4
Yeah. We were actually on our way to, like, our honeymoon in Hawaii. So I was bleeding, like, on the plane and in Hawaii. Oh. You know, that was a little hard dynamically just, like, he didn't understand how sad I was in that moment, but, you know, he was trying to support me in any way that he could. But I was so glad to be, like, in the ocean and allowing, you know, my blood to flow there and remembering that, like, one drop is then the whole ocean and yeah. Then a few we, you know, had this little, our baby altar and we're really calling in our next soul baby and asking them to stay and welcomed in another soul near the new year. And so then I was pregnant again and so happy and just kept talking to that little wombly and asking them to stay. And, I was super nauseous and vomiting that pregnancy, and I found a midwife, a single practice midwife that I decided to engage in care with.
Speaker 3
What's single practice mean?
Speaker 4
Like, the midwife practice that I had worked with before when I was attending first. It was, like, three midwives where, you know, you don't know which midwife is gonna be there, and so I chose a single practice.
Speaker 3
This woman showing up.
Speaker 4
Yep. She's a licensed midwife, and she was within her licensure as supportive as she could be of, you know, non intervention. All all of her daughters had babies and didn't have ultrasounds and things like that. And anyhow, I I was choosing not to have an ultrasound either. Although I'd sort of said to this little woman, like, you know, if that is something that you need, sort of let me know. And when I was around six months pregnant, you know, could feel this little baby moving inside of me, and I started having this right sided pain that I didn't know what it was. I thought maybe it was round ligament pain or something like that just because I hadn't gotten to experience pregnancy before. And then I started having bloody urine. And that's when I decided to go into the medical system and get some testing done. And it turned out I had, you know, like, through my blood, I had an infection, and they did an ultrasound of my, like, kidney and such, and I had a blocked right ureter, which is the tube, like, from your kidney down to your bladder. The tube between those two was blocked. And they said that, you know, if I didn't unblock it, that that would become, you know, more of a problem and that I could have a full body, you know, infection that would cause harm to me and my baby. I wound up then deciding to have a stent placed. Woah. Yeah. It's parkour. Yeah. So I had a stent placed while, you know, in pregnancy, and it was really uncomfortable. But I sort of took that as a sign that I decided to then have an ultrasound for the for the baby. So after I'd been discharged from the hospital, I went back, and I did have an ultrasound. And it was through that ultrasound that they told me that this baby inside of me did not have any kidneys and so didn't have a bladder. And, you know, without kidneys, they don't make urine, and their lungs don't develop. And so her lungs were super small, and I was told that she wouldn't survive once she was born.
Speaker 3
Oh, that's so, so big. And so that's six months.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And you're also not, like, super well. But does this fit fix like, are you fixed? Are you fine after that health wise, and is it just about the baby? Like, just how do you I mean, this is a giant question. How do you, like, who are you over those next three, four months of pregnancy? You know, the tell me about the choice you made to continue onwards with the pregnancy, and I know in some states, you have the medical support to end pregnancies that late if it's in human life. Just, yeah, tell us about that because it's, you know, one of those just impossible discoveries.
Speaker 4
Right. Right. So I'm I'm in Washington state, and and they did offer for me to induce labor, but I chose not to. I was, you know, so sad, distraught, angry, you know, angry at the world, angry at my body, like, not understanding, like, why do I have this great desire to have babies and then this is my experience. Like, I can feel this baby moving inside of me. And it was a, yeah, a really hard time. And then also I was able to then move forward in those next months and really kind of cherish and hold space and create intentional memories. Now with this little baby knowing that this would be the time that I had with them. You know, went to see different family members, would do things like, you know, read blueberries for Sal while I was eating blueberries and talk to this baby and say, you know, this is what blueberries taste like and just things like that that that felt good. I was lucky enough to have a beautiful community of women that gave me, an incredible blessing away ceremony. Obviously, not your typical blessing away ceremony, but we all knew that, you know, she would die and yet women you know, fifteen women in my community showed up and created this beautiful space and held me and my baby and honored this mother experience that I was going through.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Exactly. Oh, I'm so glad you have that. So it was is there anything more to say about your choice to continue on with the pregnancy and say yes to her her little short life? Or Mhmm. You know, because it's not as you know, as a birth worker, that's not the most popular choice.
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 3
You know, most women in the Western world that I am aware of statistically absolutely choose to end the pregnancy. Right.
Speaker 4
And yeah. Yeah. I mean, I can understand and, you know, honor women that make that choice, but for me, it was like no questions. Like, that was not my choice. I still wanted to be birth my baby at home. From the ultrasound, we knew she was little she was bummed down. And, so I was gonna be birthing her breech at home, and my midwife was super comfortable with that. And she was like, just, like, really beautifully supportive and held me in that grieving space.
Speaker 3
So she didn't hesitate on let's
Speaker 4
do that.
Speaker 3
That's awesome. So a a fetus doesn't need like, a womb doesn't need the bladder for the amniotic fluid? Like, you did you went to term with her.
Speaker 4
Mhmm. I
Speaker 3
guess I didn't totally realize that you could stay pregnant that long. You know what I'm saying? Like, without that
Speaker 4
Without the amniotic fluid and such. Yeah. I mean, there was the, and I it just felt so synchronistic that it was like my that I had this, like, kidney thing to then discover that she didn't have. It felt very like this was her call to tell me. I didn't know she was a girl at the time, but there's the risk when there's not amniotic fluid. Like, there was a risk of cord compression that she might die inside my womb before she got to term or in labor. So I knew that those were possibilities, but she was still, you know, alive and
Speaker 3
It probably isn't the case that there's no fluids. It's probably just that there's not an abundance of it.
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 3
I would imagine.
Speaker 4
Because there's still
Speaker 3
blood and stuff.
Speaker 4
Sure. There's some and, you know, her water wound up well, I don't I never had, like, a sensation of her water breaking the way I have with other births, but and I was in the water when I birthed her. So it's hard for me to say if there was any or not. I I have thought about, like, what would it have been like if I hadn't had that ultrasound. And for me, I was grateful that I'd had it because I would have still had her birthed her at home. And if she was born and she wasn't breathing, I, like, have done neonatal resuscitation. Like, I would have been trying to resuscitate her. I would have taken her to the hospital, I think. And I'm glad that that I knew because that allowed me to just, like, hold her in tenderness and not have, like, those few moments of her being alive be also, like, filled with, like, panic and pain panic and pain and things like that.
Speaker 3
Was she born already gone?
Speaker 4
She was born alive. Yeah. Okay. She she didn't open her eyes, but she was born alive.
Speaker 3
And how long was there a sense that she was alive for?
Speaker 4
Just moments. You know? I I birthed her in the birthing pool and, you know, her little bum came out and her legs flopped out and her legs are moving. You know, my husband was right behind me and I said, like, you know, feel our baby move. You know, baby's alive, and he could he felt her kick. And, you know, she was born just, like, up to, like, here. Like, this part was left inside, and then I gave one more push, and she was born. And, you know, I held her. And when I pulled her up from the water, her eyes were closed, and she took a few kind of gasping breaths. And and then her her soul was gone.
Speaker 3
Wow.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So then in your most recent free birth, did you get ultrasounds, or did you just go full
Speaker 4
No. In my son's pregnancy, I did choose to have an ultrasound to see that he had all of his parts. K. And also knowing that that doesn't mean that he's gonna be born alive or live after that. Like Yeah. But for me, I wanted to know that. In my daughter's pregnancy, my last one, I chose not to, so I didn't know Mhmm. Before she was born if she had everything or not. Yeah.
Speaker 3
That's big work, man. Okay. So your your first daughter is born.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And her labor was super long, by the way. It was, like, over a few days. Because when I went you know, I didn't wanna go into labor. I knew labor meant birth, which meant death.
Speaker 3
Oh.
Speaker 4
So I just, you know, was holding on when I went to labor. I, like, had a glass of wine and, like, took a bath, tried to, like, slow things down. It, you know, happened over three days, and, you know, eventually, I did birth
Speaker 3
birth. Gestation around were you?
Speaker 4
Right around thirty seven weeks.
Speaker 3
Okay. On the earlier end.
Speaker 4
So on the earlier end, which is come more common for babies that don't
Speaker 3
Sure.
Speaker 4
Have the kidneys. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Okay. So then who are you after that?
Speaker 4
After that, I was a mess for a while.
Speaker 3
I'm a a new marriage. It's that's so hard.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We you know, when everyone grieves differently, grief is unique with each, like, experience and each person. And, like, I really wanted to like, I held on to her body for, like, thirty four hours after she was born and, you know, kept her at home and carried her around and slept with her. And my husband had a hard time being with her body afterwards.
Speaker 3
Yeah. On that note, would you actually flush that out a little bit? Because that's not, again, that's not even, like, something that most women know they have the option of.
Speaker 4
Mhmm. And that's
Speaker 3
a really important important thing to know about when you birth at home. So you have this medical midwife that I'm assuming is straddling some sort of legal like like, how does this go? So the so the baby is born. She's she's gone. And you need to get a death certificate. And what's, like, the legal parameters in Washington of keeping a body in home? Like, I only know what it is in California, but did you have like, did you keep her body cool? Was she was someone, like, teaching you how to do all of this? Did your midwife have a ton of knowledge in this?
Speaker 4
Yeah. She didn't have a ton of knowledge. She communicated with, like, one of the physicians at the hospital who, you know, told me. And so because that they knew the baby was going to die, there wasn't, like Right. It was okay for her to be there. And, you know, she handled a lot of the legal stuff that I didn't really have to take that on. And Mhmm. I was allow yeah. Yeah. I, you know, she gave me some, like, instructions of things that I could do with baby, but I I didn't, like, keep my baby cold. I didn't Hartley is what we called her, and I just I held her with me and, like, I gave her a bath and anointed her with oils and brought her out into the daylight for a little bit. And, you know, my dad came and saw her and Wow. Yeah. So and we could have kept her longer, but, you know, after a few days, there is, you know, a smell and I see. Things start to shift and change, and I was ready, not ready, you know, to have. The one thing that you can't do is, like, we couldn't transport her body to the funeral home where we were having her cremated. We couldn't, like, bury her ourselves. We had to have someone come to you have to have some
Speaker 3
A licensed funeral.
Speaker 4
A license to transport a dead body. Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And then you did cremate her?
Speaker 4
And then we did cremate her. Yeah. We cremated her. We picked up her ashes, and we decided to take a road trip down the Oregon coast and down into the redwoods. And, you know, that felt good to kinda be away from our normal space. And, you know, I carried her ashes with me everywhere. I was pumping milk because I wanted to donate. So at that time I was, like, pumping and, like, dumping the milk or, you know, releasing the milk into the ocean or the redwoods wherever we were. And we sprinkled some of her ashes in a couple of places and
Speaker 3
I feel like Wow. What an initiation into that that part of motherhood, that section of motherhood that lots of women won't even ever know. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So then what happens?
Speaker 4
And then, you know, we are still open. We open again to receiving another little soul. Yeah. I mean, we were open to it pretty soon. We never, like, used any preventative measure after that, but, you know, my body was wise. It didn't conceive right I didn't conceive right away. It was several months later that then, another little soul came into my womb. And I was pregnant again and, of course, excited and nervous and
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Having all the feels. I was with the same midwife at the time and I did decide to have an ultrasound to see, you know, we talked about the different possibilities and she was still comfortable with me not having one. But I and at that point, I hadn't even heard of free birth, so I didn't know that was, like, in the realm. But I I chose to
Speaker 3
Also, she sounds she sounds awesome.
Speaker 4
She is. She is amazing.
Speaker 3
And that sounds like exactly what makes sense to choose. Like, you it's not like she violated you.
Speaker 4
No. Not at all. No.
Speaker 3
Like or that you were a victim to all the nonsense you know we always talk about. Like, it sounds like she was a really helpful woman in your life.
Speaker 4
Yes.
Speaker 3
Thank God. Yes.
Speaker 4
Yes. She was. And she actually, right after Hartley was born in our home, she bought a house that was just a few doors down from us, which was really fun. Yeah. I think it was sixteen weeks was when they said the earliest was that they could see whether or not baby had kidneys. And so I did it at sixteen weeks. And then in that, they said, you know, if you come back at twenty weeks, then we can, like, really tell and make sure. And I did go back at twenty weeks. And then after that, no more after that. And, yeah, continued to plan a home birth with with that baby. And and his pregnancy was so smooth compared to Hartley's. And I well, I puked once. I was not puking every day, and that felt really nice. And, you know, again, grateful that baby had all of their parts and also held the knowing that that didn't mean he would be born alive.
Speaker 3
So what was your level of, like, coming up into that birth? Did you feel just everything, or were you fairly anxious? Were you, like, able to drop into some realms of trust and and getting, like, truly excited to have your baby finally? Or what was that like?
Speaker 4
I I was excited. I, you know, I still had, you know, bought baby clothes and baby things. I know some women who experience a stillbirth then choose not to buy, like, any diapers or any clothes or anything until baby is born and breathing. But I that wasn't my path. And I had some anxiety, but also was just really excited and, yeah, hopeful. And, you know, spoke to this little baby and was like, please, you know, breathe right away and cry right away. Like, I, you know, have witnessed enough births that I knew that there's like a, you know, a wide spectrum of what's normal for breathing after birth. But I just was like, please, just don't, like, linger.
Speaker 3
Don't mess with me.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So for him, I was forty weeks in one day, and I woke up to labor early in the morning. And at first sort of tried to stay in bed for a moment and was like, no, this isn't happening. And so I got out of bed and labored on my own for a while and that felt nice. And and then I decided to send my husband a text message that I I figured he would receive, like, when he woke up and turned his phone or his ringer on or whatever. But he forgot to turn his ringer off. So it was, like, five or I think it was almost six in the morning when I I sent him the message just to be like, I'm in labor. Like, don't just stay in the bedroom, come out here and be with me. But I wanted him rested in case it was another, like, long labor. And but his ringer was on, so he, like, woke up and came out and was like, oh my gosh, you're in labor. He was so excited. And I had my little list of things that I wanted him to do, like clean the toilet in case I was puke gonna puke and a few other little things. And, I was baking some bread and had it rising by the fire. This was like the end of the end of December, so really cozy and fireplace and snowy. And he asked if he could take a shower and I was like, yeah, sure. You want some eggs? I made him some eggs. And then kind of when he got out of the shower and was in my space, the contractions just really increased in intensity. And I decided to get in the shower to see if that would help ease the sensations at all. It didn't really they just kept kept coming, but were, like, inconsistent in timing. I was timing them a little bit. And he was trying to get the birth pool set up for me. And I was like, oh, like, this is getting hard. And I decided to just fill the regular bath. And I started wanting to have him close to me and was just like, forget the freaking birth pool. Just stay with me. And and he was like, should I call the midwife? And then he did. And and between when he called her and she arrived, like, my my water broke in the bathtub, I felt like that pop. And he saw the little gush of blood, and he was like, oh, is that okay? And I'm like, yes. It's okay. And she she arrived. I was starting to feel I could feel I was feeling pushy. And when she came, she just, you know, arrived, set her bag down, kinda like looked, and she was like, oh, yeah. Like, I could see baby's head. And seven minutes seven minutes later, he emerged and cried right away, and he had a really short cord. I couldn't, like, quite get him, like, you know, up to my chest. I kinda had to hold him down here, and I felt sort of out of it because I think just it going so quickly, I wasn't expecting that. I was a little sorta out and in within myself and but so grateful that he was alive and breathing.
Speaker 3
How many hours was the labor?
Speaker 4
About six.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. And he was perfect.
Speaker 4
And he was perfect and beautiful, and placenta was birthed super easily. I decided to cut cut our cord myself, and we got into bed. And he nursed like a champ from the beginning, like, loved being attached to the boob, and that was great.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Thank god.
Speaker 4
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Absolutely. Mhmm. Sounds like a great midwife too.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Like, knowing what you know now, do you have any? Well, I guess we'll just move into it. Well, because I I guess you have a couple more pregnancies in between. But, like, what what happens for you in this evolution between your son and your daughter where you don't hire her again and and what Mhmm. Like, who do you become that that is different for you?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I it was after my son was born that then, like, the word free birth and the concept, like, came into my sphere and I was like, oh, okay. Like that makes sense. And, and then I was reflecting on like my mother line and that my mother was an unplanned unassisted birth and I'm like, okay, like, you know, my ancestors did it and just really
Speaker 3
Everyone's ancestors did it.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So I knew I wanted to do that for my next, birth at that at that time. And also it was, like, reflecting back to my son's birth and how because I had expected or envisioned my birth with her present, I sort of held and waited for her to arrive to birth my baby and that and I had some, like, fear around that. And if I had if I had just planned for her not to be there, it wouldn't be the same feeling. I'm just like, okay. The next time, I'm just gonna plan for her not to be there.
Speaker 3
And Gosh. Even just that just that point, you know, which has nothing to do with our critiques of medical midwifery. It has nothing to do with like, that could show up in in that could show up with anybody. You know? It's not even specific to the midwife. Just that is such a big deal to tilt and and have what you need in your home, have what you think you need, have what you think you want just already with you. Just that psychological shift. Yeah. I think I think is, like, not talked about enough because I mean, it it happens with women I attend. It happens, I'm sure, with women you attend. It's it's not something we can get out of if somebody wants someone who doesn't live with them there. Right? It just automatically adds that layer that can very, very it can be so subtle. You know? Sometimes it's really obvious, but sometimes it's really subtle. And it's not until I show up or until, you you know, I hear stories of of whoever, even if it's the sister showing up, that the woman can, like, fully relax. And, yeah, I've been thinking a lot about that lately because I travel fairly far for births or I'm willing to, you know, in the right circumstances. And it's tricky with with that element, and it's kind of, like, hard to talk about, you know, because it's it can show up really subtly. Yeah. But even just that, I think, is such an important shift of why women do choose free birth. It's not necessarily from trauma and betrayal and restrictions of licensure and all this heavy shit. It's also Mhmm. Like, what if I just knew I had everything I needed when I woke up and found myself in labor, you know. And what a liberating, powerful, relaxing concept.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So between my son and my living daughter, I had experienced two early births, one at eleven weeks and another one at six weeks. And my eleven week loss, she was an unexpected pregnancy that I was we were, you know, tracking our cycle. I was tracking my cycle and we're trying not to conceive. And then she appeared and I was super excited and grateful. My son was just over a year, so I was like, oh my gosh. Like, I'm gonna have like two under two. And when I looked up, you know, from my last menstrual cycle, like when my forty weeks would be, it was on my birthday, November twentieth. And that felt like so sweet and beautiful and aligned. I was conceived when my mother was on birth control. So I'm like, okay, like I was that one that like came on through anyway and she's like coming on through anyway. So I was really excited and happy. And my sister-in-law was pregnant at the same time due just like a week apart. And then I started bleeding at eleven weeks and was really, really sad. And, you know, it's hard because people around me like, one thing that we talk about in the lost community, like, some people say to you, it's not gonna happen again, like, when you have one, and it's always, like, f you. You have no idea.
Speaker 3
Like Meaning when you have one miscarriage? Yeah. Of course, it could happen again.
Speaker 4
Exactly. But some people say it won't.
Speaker 3
Which is ridiculous.
Speaker 4
That's good.
Speaker 3
And and eleven weeks is like you've let your guard down a little bit about it. Yeah. That's not Yeah. Just finding out in a couple days later. That's really
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Enough to be truly yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So that happened. We named her Nyla Rose, and, you know, I buried some of her with a plum tree and some rose bushes, and that felt nice. And
Speaker 3
And you birthed her at home?
Speaker 4
I tried to. She is my baby that I I tried to birth at home. I labor, and then I could feel that there was still like, when I reached felt inside of myself, I could feel coming out of my cervix, some of the, like, sac and whatnot that wasn't coming out. And so I, you know, held on to that for a couple of weeks and wound up then eventually trying to use some pharmaceuticals, but those never she still didn't come out, and eventually, I did go into the hospital and have a DNC.
Speaker 3
So you could feel that there was still pregnancy tissue.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
The the medication didn't get it out. Mhmm. Ugh. It's brutal.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Of course. And you spiked a fever, which was your indication to go in. Right?
Speaker 4
Yeah. I spiked a fever and it, you know, started to smell. You know, the tissue was starting to rot inside of me. And then I had the fever and was, you know yeah. Wanted to go in and have her removed the rest of the way. So that's what I did. I you know, when I went in and I said I wanted to keep the, you know, the baby, they were like, well, we have to send it off to pathology and whatever. And I was like, no, you don't. Like, I can keep it. And I asked to speak to the house supervisor and, you know, it wound up that then the doctor didn't really want me to be allowed to keep it. But Yeah. She, yeah, she took a sample and I was able to.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. My understanding of because it's not really a DNC anymore. It's vacuum. Right. And so the vacuum goes into a machine. So did something did you not have that? Because with, like, the things I've seen when I've been with women who have abortions
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
You know, like a tube, I'm forgetting the word, Goes into the cervix, vacuums up the contents. Yeah. Thank you. And then there's like a like a machine that it goes into. But is that not what happened for you?
Speaker 4
I that's a great question. I mean, they called it a DNC, and I wasn't awake during the procedure. So I can't tell you what happened exactly.
Speaker 3
Were awake. Woah. That's intense. Okay. At eleven weeks. Wow. That's kind of unusual. You were totally sedated?
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Wow. And was it in a clinic or a hospital?
Speaker 4
A hospital.
Speaker 3
Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So we don't know then.
Speaker 4
So I don't know. And but they, you know, had it, like, a Tupperware.
Speaker 3
Yeah. They say d and c still everywhere even though that's not really in first world, that's not really no one's no one's scraping. That's not
Speaker 5
it it you
Speaker 3
know, it's a vacuum now.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
But, obviously, I wasn't there, so maybe it was that. But, yeah, anyway, I've just I've been in the room and seen it, and I've always thought because women I've been with women who've asked for the baby, the pregnancy tissue, whatever, and they're like, it doesn't it, like, physically can't work that way given how they extract it. Anyway but so you were given something? Like, was it notable? Like, what what what was that like?
Speaker 4
Yeah. I it was like, you know, there were some blood clots and it was like, you know, a sac with placenta e. I I had also already passed some in my in my early birth labor. So I couldn't notably, like, necessarily see Yeah. Baby.
Speaker 3
Because also at eleven weeks, the range of when the when the fetus stopped Stopped. Living could have been at five weeks.
Speaker 4
Absolutely.
Speaker 3
And that's another thing, you know, obviously, you and I know that, but I think it's important to share because, you know, women women we have such lost knowledge on on this whole topic. And, you know, and the lost knowledge really contributes to over engaging in the system, over not saying in any way saying that you did. But you know what I mean? Like, just not knowing anything and so you go in and just do whatever and you don't even know what happened to you and, you know, so many women have that experience. But, yeah, that at any point from the spark of of pregnancy I mean, it can take at any point in the pregnancy, not even in the first trimester, at any point in the pregnancy, you know, fetus can die and it can take months before you release, which is intense. But because we're in the free birth world, like, I know lots of women who've done that where it's taken, you know, them at all different trimesters, months, which is so different than what we would think, you know, when you see a doctor. You, like, get that out as soon as it's figured out.
Speaker 4
Right. You know, a few months go by and we we do conceive again, and then that pregnancy ends at six weeks. And that was, you know, uncomplicated and was able to birth that baby at home. And then I was sort of just like, oh my gosh. Like, maybe we're not gonna get this next baby. Like, maybe maybe my son is my only living child and sort of coming to terms with that. And also, like, feeling like this soul and spirit was there that my daughter was, you know, going to come and, you know, had some moments with universe being like, you know, now is the time. Like, I'm in my mid thirties. Like, and then near summer solstice of twenty nineteen, I guess, it would have been. We conceived again, and it was my daughter. And I was super nauseous and puking again like I was in Hartley's pregnancy, puking, puking, like, you know, get up to go to the bathroom and I'm puking, roll over in bed. I'm puking. My husband's right. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Brutal dude.
Speaker 4
My husband, like, even, like, wrote me little love notes on, like, the back of the toilet seat, you know, like, you're amazing, you know. Bought me, like, a knee board because I was always like kneeling at the porcelain throne. Yeah. That sucked. But, you know, it was what it was. I was grateful to be pregnant. The one thing that I did decide to do in this pregnancy in the medical system was to get the ten week maternal blood test because I wanted to know if baby was a boy or a girl. I went through some sort of some grief with my son expecting he was gonna be a girl and having him be a boy. And so anyway, I just did decide to do that one blood test and then nothing else after that. So her pregnancy was hard, yet I was, like, you know, knew knew she was a girl by blood also, and I was just, like, so grateful that she was a girl, that she was growing in my womb. And it was reminding me of Hartley's pregnancy. So there were, you know, I was like and it was hard. I was like depressed just because I was nauseous all the time. It was hard to be like,
Speaker 0
you know, I'm
Speaker 4
happy because I'm pregnant and yet I'm like miserable and puking and nauseous and just like and it paralleled Hartley's pregnancy in that way, which in moments, I was like, you know, does this mean that this baby also doesn't have kidneys? But I, you know, was like, probably she does. And, you know, I think it was a little harder for some people around me, you know, people asking, are you sure you don't wanna get an ultrasound to know? And I was just always curious. I I just I didn't want to. I I knew the harms of ultrasound, and I even had, at that point, you know, like, felt bad that I did that with my son. I didn't really understand the harms on the same level when I had my ultrasound with son with my son, but at that point, I, like, really did. And I really just didn't I was like, they wouldn't change. I wouldn't I wouldn't I wouldn't then choose to induce labor. I would still carry that baby. I would still wanna have that baby at home, and I would still want to birth her at home even if she was gonna die. So it wouldn't change my path, so I just chose not to.
Speaker 3
I mean, that's such a good point. Right? That's such a important decision making aspect that I I, you know, I I would like to see more women consider. Like, what would knowing any of this change? And if if it's nothing I mean, I guess you could argue for, like, the preparation of it. Right? Like, the the emotional, literal preparation has value for some people. For other people, it would just be a stressful, horrific Mhmm.
Speaker 4
You
Speaker 3
know, time knowing. Anyway and then you also have the reference point now of a healthy son.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Which is so helpful.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So for her, I'm just like so excited and, like, waiting for birth to come and for the nausea and puking to be gone. I know people kept being, like, second trimester, and then people are, like, okay, third trimester, and it just continued. So brutal. Wow.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I
Speaker 4
yeah. But it just it was what it was. And, you know, she's my fiery baby, and that was, like, her expression of fire from within. Yes.
Speaker 3
Anything else you wanna say before you tell the story about, like, choosing free birth and not having the midwife and how does your partner feel and just is there anything else to kinda prep this setup?
Speaker 4
Not really. I mean, my husband was a little bit nervous and yet he trusted, you know, trusted me and was supportive of the supportive of the choice. And, you know, he kinda felt the same way that, you know, the midwife is there just seven minutes before our son was born.
Speaker 3
Like, you
Speaker 4
can do this without her. Like, no biggie. You know? My main thing's like, okay. You know, you're gonna have to, like, wipe my poop and deal with the blood and, you know, and he's like, okay. Okay. I can do that. Yeah. So So at least he can do. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, like, tell a ton of people that that was my plan. Most people assumed I was gonna have a midwife present, and I just sort of allowed that because I didn't wanna deal with talking about it with a lot of people. Yeah. We knew that this would probably you know, if this baby survived that this would be my last pregnancy and birth. I turned forty this year and, you know, I'm super grateful to be where I'm at and have these two living babies. Yeah. So I had, you know, been in the birth world and for a long time, and I really did want photos and video of this birth because I knew it would be probably my last. And, so I did invite a couple women in my community to be at my birth that are dear friends to mine, one to take pictures and one to do video. Hartley and Odin had both been born in water. So I really sort of envisioned this birth as a land birth or a dry birth and created that space in my living room and had mirrors and artwork of women and women with babies and photos of, you know, my mother and my grandmother and my other grandmother and yeah. Really enjoyed preparing the space and preparing for labor. I was forty weeks on March sixteenth of twenty twenty, and that's sort of when COVID came into the whole sphere. And so, you know, as I approached that time is when that was all happening. And then I definitely, you know, felt some fear initially when I didn't understand and didn't know and had this, you know, precious new life inside of me. I my son was born just one day after forty weeks, so I sort of thought I would, you know, birth her before that. I thought she was gonna be a Pisces and she was not. She stayed in until forty one weeks and a couple of days. And and, oh, we had done some work with my son. He was three at that time, and he wanted to be present at this baby's birth. I'd showed him lots of videos and talked to him about it and told him, you know, what sounds I would be making might be making and things like that. We did invite my mother-in-law to come and be with us so that she could be sort of his person if in the moment he decided he didn't want to be there, that he could be with her somewhere else. And so she was staying with us at the time and I went into labor early in the morning again. Woke up to really strong contractions that were, yeah, fierce and strong, and I I never really found a rhythm with them. I got out of bed kinda right away. Tried different yeah. Like, tried different positions. Right? Nothing was nothing changed the sensations. They just kept being strong and consistent. I didn't time them at all. I woke up my husband a little bit later and he was present with me and, you know, held me and was just with me during them, and that felt good. We called my friends, Ricana and Clementine, and they, you know, entered the space really beautifully and didn't I didn't feel I've enjoyed their loving presence, and and labor continued to progress. And I then when I started sort of feeling the pushy feelings, I had them wake up my mother-in-law, and she got my son. And they came out into this phase. And he was really sweet and, you know, like, oh, mama. And he was just right there with us.
Speaker 3
It doesn't feel like too many people?
Speaker 4
It didn't. Right. No. It felt really good. Yeah. There was in my earlier labor, like, my mother-in-law came out because she heard us, and and I didn't like having her in the space then and asked her to, you know, go somewhere else, and she did. But at that point, no. It felt I was glad that she was there and that my son was there. And I had, you know, like, a a mirror a big mirror, and I wound up, like, in front of this full length mirror, and I had this, again, of circular mirror down below. And I was just sitting on the floor with my husband behind me, and so I enjoyed he's tall. He's six nine. So What? Yeah.
Speaker 3
Woah. That's really tall. I'm five one,
Speaker 4
so that would be hilarious.
Speaker 3
Are you kinda tall?
Speaker 4
I'm I'm, like, five seven. Okay. So tallish, but not tall like that. Yeah. No. Yeah. I know. I asked universe for a tall I had no idea he was gonna be quite so tall. But yeah. But so I really enjoyed having the mirror because even though he was behind me, we could have, like, the eye contact through the mirror, which felt really nice. Mhmm. And I started to feel baby emerging. I was not ready for it. I had my I held my hand over her head and over over me for several contractions as I, you know, sort of allowed the stretching and just, like, woah. You're just, like, busting through. You know? Yeah. Well, I went into, like, around two, and she was born a little before six AM. So four hours. Fast. Uh-huh. So I, you know, held her and held her, and then eventually, I was like, oh, okay. I gotta let her come, and I released my hand and her head came out. And, then she did her little turn, and then she was born up to, like, kind of her belly button. The cord was sort of, like, lassoed around her. And my husband helped me to kind of hold her so that I could unloop the cord. And then her little button legs fell out and I, I pulled her to my chest and we all cried. And I looked and was like, oh, you really are a girl. And everyone was just there and in love and in awe, and she was breathing right away. And it was magical and beautiful.
Speaker 3
Sounds like perfection.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And then just a few few minutes later, I could feel the placenta ready to birth. I had this little pie dish pie dish that I wanted to birth it in. So I just, like, went I was holding her, and I just went onto my knee. I don't know. I was on, like, a painting cloth. We had a painting cloth on our carpet.
Speaker 3
A smart idea.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
That's a really smart idea. Like a big canvas kinda. Yeah. Mhmm.
Speaker 4
And we had it, like, it was huge, so we had it doubled over, and Mhmm. It was enough to stop anything from getting to the curb.
Speaker 3
That's better than a tarp.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I don't I wouldn't I wouldn't wanna be on a yeah, and flippy and mhmm.
Speaker 3
K. Learning all sorts of tips. Okay. I love it. So full sentence. Easy.
Speaker 4
Easy peasy. Then everyone, you know, helps me and baby to move to the bed. My husband is, like using a washcloth to get like the blood off of my feet and things and they do a fresh squeezed juice for me. And I had decided that with this cord, I wanted to do a cord burning. So I got four really long tapered beeswax candles and we did that in the bedroom. I'd asked, my friends, Clementine and Rickanna and my mother-in-law to each hold one. So they each held a candle and myself. So the four of us women there held the candles, and my daughter was, like, awake and looking at the fire. And it, you know, took just a few minutes with those four candles to to burn the cord, and then we were she was separate from her placenta. And she latched beautifully and nursed, and life was life was complete.
Speaker 3
That's so sweet. I can picture it. So tell me a little bit about from her okay. So that was twenty twenty, you said? So that was only two and a half years ago or something?
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Right? So Yeah. What is life like for you now as a free birther, a birth worker? And then I know you also do work with bereaved mothers and parents. So we can kinda end on that note. Just anything you wanna share about your work and who you are now.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I I mentor and support women in the seasons of pregnancy, birthing, and mothering through conscious dialogue. I really love incorporating ceremony and ritual, somatic experiencing and movement in the care that I provide. Some of it is in person and some of it is virtual. And and, yeah, I have unique offerings for women who are experiencing, you know, early birth loss or infant loss and to navigate those waves of grief and be able to connect with someone who has, you know, walked a similar path.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. And what's your website?
Speaker 4
It's w w w dot birthing nova dot love.
Speaker 3
Awesome. And we'll put that in the show notes also.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Anything else you wanna say before we wrap?
Speaker 4
I guess well, I also I have a podcast called the heart of the soul, which also has stories of birth, life, and death, and remembering what it means to be wild women walking upon this earth.
Speaker 3
Beautiful. Alright. Thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 2
And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching. Learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, the complete guide to free birth. Don't miss the radical birth keeper school if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise, and the revolution starts inside each of us. I'll leave you with our free birth society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 5
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored. Eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the star. Conscious inception. Conscious conception.
