Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Are you ready to become the powerful matriarch and wise woman you are here on this earth to be? Wherever you are on your path, Freebird Society has a program perfectly curated for you. Learn everything you need to know to be prepared for a powerful birth experience with our flagship course, The Complete Guide to Free Birth. Join our groundbreaking Radical Birthkeeper School, an immersive, authentic midwifery intensive, and reclaimed birth work as it's meant to be. Take charge of your family's health and wellness and become the herbal healer of your home with our new course, Wild Mother Medicine Chest. Prepare your mind, body, spirit for conscious conception through welcoming your spirit baby home and call your next baby in. Awaken your innate womb wisdom and remove any fear or doubt about your upcoming birth with our sovereign birth meditation series. And finally, gain the simple tools you need to peacefully resolve pregnancy aches and exhaustion, pain with body full of grace, and be able to truly enjoy your pregnancy. Head over to free birth society courses now to join the global sisterhood and elevate your life. This week, we have my friend, Carlyn, on the show, sharing her journey into sovereignty. Carlyn's first experience of pregnancy ended in an abortion in the medical system, which came with it many lessons for her to digest. When her second pregnancy ended in a first trimester early birth, she turned to her partner, the land, and the wisdom of her own body to find her way forward. Her third pregnancy resulted in her sweet daughter being free birthed, supported by her husband and, well, me on the phone. Carlin speaks honestly about how much resistance she had to birth itself, to feeling the pain, and how much stronger she has become on the other side.
Speaker 3
Hi. Hi, girl. Hey. Alright.
Speaker 4
Let's dive on in. I'm excited to have you here. I'm excited to hear your whole story from start to finish because I know little parts of it. Yeah. Yeah. So let's open up with the question, tell me about who you are at the point when you know that you're going to free birth. So let's just kind of start with whatever that part of your journey, you know, brings you to in your mind when you start to because for people, it's different. Right? Some women know in a second as soon as they hear it, and for others, it's like a slow a slow simmer. So tell us about whatever it is for you when you start to steer your life towards, either quickly or slowly, you know, knowing that you are going to free birth your first baby.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. So this is what's crazy is when I think about it, I'm like, wow. Maybe I am somewhere in between. Because when I heard about it, I was like, that is so badass. Right? Like, that is beautiful. That is totally something that I want to do. And then I just went down the rabbit hole. Right? I I think I found Yolanda somehow online because those birth photos are just so powerful. And then it cascaded into finding you, finding the podcast, and, like I'm so funny. I just, like, start from season one. I'm like, okay. I'm gonna start at season one and work my way up. Hearing all of that, and I had a previous history of I had been pregnant once before, and I chose to terminate that pregnancy. So I have this experience of interacting with the system. Right? And then I start to hear all of these stories on the podcast and other stories online. And just, like, affirming the experience that I had. Right? Like, really waking myself up to it because I had this entire way of living my life where I was incredibly dissociated from my body, from the experiences that I was having, particularly the one where I chose to terminate the pregnancy. I went into planned parenthood. You know? No questions were asked. No information was given. You know, I was given, like, the two pills, and then they asked for my blood type. And because I was o negative, they gave me a shot. Oh my god. Yeah. I had absolutely no idea what it was. I had no idea that it was rogan. I had no idea about any of it. Right? Like, I just sneezed. Okay. Yeah. Hit me. Yeah. Like, so but I'm, like, so good girl. I was so good at being so good. Like, following the rules, I was in university, like, all of these things that were so important.
Speaker 4
And yet also choosing an abortion, that's pretty counter to the good girl narrative.
Speaker 3
Well, yeah, I guess. I mean, for me, it was like, I know that I made that decision now, and it wasn't, like, actually for me. I think it was for all of the things that told me that it was inappropriate at that time to have a child. So, like, in those ways, I felt like I was being a good girl. I felt like that was actually the correct thing to do was this isn't the right time. So, obviously, I'm not going to have this child.
Speaker 4
And was it from a different man than who's now the father of your child?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 4
Okay.
Speaker 3
Of why I also did what I did. Just the path that that guy was down, and this was just so random. Yeah. And, you know, hearing all of the stories and just, like, having that affirming experience for myself, there's no way that I'm stepping back into that system. And then even hearing about women who have had, you know, like, they're experiencing early birth, they're experiencing a miscarriage, and they enter into the system, and there's nothing there for them. Right?
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's not.
Speaker 3
No. It's it's actually really shitty. What most women don't understand
Speaker 4
is that if you are beginning the process of miscarriage and you go into the system, they will give you an abortion. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, in terms of the literal, procedures, and, certainly, that's not the language they use, but, you know, it's essentially
Speaker 3
But that's exactly what's happened. Right? Like, all of the experiences I heard, here's some pills. Go home. Like, figure it out. And I was just, like, not going to be in that camp anymore. Like, I was done.
Speaker 4
And with a miscarriage in the system, they would do a a surgical extraction. They would do a a vacuum, you know, and they would vacuum out
Speaker 3
the blood inside
Speaker 4
the uterus most likely because you're going into the ER. You know? And, yeah, it's just it's so gnarly. The whole thing is so gnarly. Okay. So you obviously do not have a positive experience.
Speaker 3
And I do not have a positive experience with that early termination that I chose. And then found you, went down the rabbit hole, and, like, yes. Whole body yes to this. Like, of course, I'm going to now free birth. Right? And then I ended up getting laid off of work, the perfect combination of things for, like, oh, I wanna step into this work, like women's work. I felt so passionate about it. It's so important. How can I offer this to my community? How can I continue to, like, proliferate this message in a way that feels good?
Speaker 4
And you had a pretty male dominated kinda job when you got laid off. Right? Like, it was
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah. Techy Mhmm. Pretty Total tech corporate. Right? I love it. I love how many women get converted through the free birth movement to, like, land into their womanhood and into serving women, and it's pretty cool. It's awesome. You know what? I swear it's just like it all happens at birth. Right? You say this so often, and it's true. We just know it in our bones. And as soon as that information is presented like, I get chills even talking about this now because I'm like, how would I have ever have said no? I would have had to have been, like, that dissociated. Like, that like, not in touch with, like, what my body and, like, with, like, every level essence of self is saying yes to. You know? So, yeah, entered the RBK school, and then I got pregnant. And that is the current man that I'm with now. I ended up with an early birth around nine weeks. And that was a few weeks into the school. Few weeks, probably more like, I think halfway through maybe. Yeah. Yeah. And that is actually where, like, I connected with myself and my chosen termination. Right? And, like, kind of processing and understanding how that really wasn't a choice for me. It was a choice for everything else around me. And then as I was losing my child or as that birth started happening for me, there wasn't even a thought in my mind to seek out care elsewhere. Like, I just radically decided to trust my body. And and I don't I don't even remember questioning it once. Like, I just remember going through it. I remember the cramping pretty intensely, and I just remember, like, knowing, like, day one of some cramping and some spotting and then day two with some intense cramping. I was like, okay. Yeah. Like, this child isn't, like, a possibility for me anymore in the way that I wanted it to be. Right?
Speaker 4
And you were already aligned. If that pregnancy had stayed viable, you were already planning a free birth. So the the tilt definitely is still a test for some. You know, some women think they're gonna free birth and then, lose the pregnancy and still choose the system and, you know, whatever, one step at a time. But I think from you, yeah, you were already so on the path that Yeah. You know, early or or term or whatever, it was pretty clear what you were gonna do.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think, you know, what's so insane is just, like, the way that we don't talk about these experiences. Right? Like, I think that's why I love and had such an affinity for the work that you do and the podcast and hearing these, like, anecdotal experiences, right, from these women. It helps so much in understanding what I was going through. Right? I remember trying to figure out, like, looking online, trying to find something, grasp to something, like, what's going on? What can I expect? And I'm so glad I didn't actually find much or anything, right, other than it's gonna happen. Like, you're gonna give birth. There's one way out of this. And it was really, transformational for me, and I'm so grateful that it happened that way.
Speaker 4
Meaning to get to complete the cycle in your own home and and be with this loss entirely.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Totally. And just having my partner there who was incredibly supportive. And, you know, like, even that night, I just just remember knowing when everything was complete. It's amazing, like, once you start to trust yourself. It's like these lights turn on, and you can't help but just, like, trust the no. You know, like, trust what's happening. And so knowing that it was complete and taking, you know, what whatever it was that I collected from that birth and we got to bury it outside under the moon in this yard, It just felt really, yeah, full circle. And, like, how grateful I was for the opportunity to understand what my body and my, like, psyche is capable of. Like, it felt really big. Well, and you get to have an intact experience.
Speaker 4
Like, how how disorienting, you know, to to begin the process of losing a pregnancy and going into a place with strangers and have them suck it out and, you know, often be quite inhumane and insensitive and, even secretive. And, gosh, there's just such a range of horrific stories. It's just so disorienting, I would imagine, you know, versus when I think about the surprise of losing a pregnancy, right, which is always going to be a surprise to a pregnant woman. And orienting around that, beginning the process, completing it in your home, burying the the remains, you know, on the land, being with your partner who made the baby with you. Like, it just feels as sad as it might be for some for a wanted pregnancy. For others, it could be quite a relief. But but for a desired pregnancy, just getting to have such an intact experience from start to finish allows for for integration in a way that the system like, how do you integrate such a disembodied experience? Right? It's
Speaker 3
The only way that I did was through the complete right? Like, almost marrying it again Yeah. In in a complete way. Because there it's just, like, so disorienting, right, and so disjointed. Yeah. It's weird.
Speaker 4
I like your term of of I like the visual of the lights turning on because it really is like that. And then and then the the central voice, like, your inner knowing, your self authority, and there's lots of names for what we could call it. But when the lights are on, life becomes a lot more simple. You know? It's not as confusing. And I think when your self authority light is dull or off, It's hella confusing in there. I would imagine. I've never really got it be that off, but I imagine
Speaker 3
that it's pretty confusing to
Speaker 4
not know, you know, which way is up.
Speaker 3
Yeah. I get chills when you say that because it's true. Right? It can get really confusing when you are consistently outsourcing your choices. You know? And when you're getting bombarded with just, like, authority, somebody else's decision for you, somebody else's opinion, and you're, like, choosing that route, yeah, it gets confusing because what are we doing? We're overriding that innate sense of self. And, yeah, it gets really fucking foggy. Mhmm.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So you have this experience, you're in the middle of RBK, which I'm sure
Speaker 3
is blowing your mind. And you have this pretty prolific experience and and then what happens? Yeah. And then I get through RBK. I start posting circles for, like, prenatal circles for pregnant women in the area. Love that. It was so life changing. I mean, we had a woman who showed up at thirty four weeks, fired her midwife, hired me at thirty six, and, like, free birthed her baby at, like, forty weeks. And it's just it's amazing what can happen when it's just, like, held for you. Right? It's shown. You the path is lit, and there are some women who just take it and run with it. You know? And, it felt really powerful to witness and be a part of. And that's when I knew we were going to consciously conceive again, and I was, of course, going to continue down that path of of, not interacting with the system at all, right, and trusting myself.
Speaker 4
So you've only attended births outside the system?
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's it.
Speaker 4
And how many had you attended by the time it was your turn?
Speaker 3
Let's see. So I had
Speaker 4
like, five or something?
Speaker 3
Like, five. Five births. That's awesome. At Zephyr, I was pregnant for, like, three of them, which is so special and really cool. And Well, so before we get into
Speaker 4
your pregnancy, is there anything at this point of the story you'd wanna share about doing birth work outside the system? Like, that's a pretty cool it's a pretty cool path that you started with RBK and and then with women's circles and and then just started serving, which, you know, a lot of women ask us, is that real? Like, can you really just take the school and just start serving with no prior experience? And you're a shining example, that we really hope to see more of because, obviously, we don't think women should go to ten years in doula hood. You know? That sucks. Yeah. So anything else you might wanna share about your experience of becoming a mother, and and being this radical birth keeper?
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. I think, like, the the biggest thing was, like, having that circle and having those, like, monthly gatherings being this consistent place for this group of women. Like, it's just amazing the way it all just kind of, like, grows from it. Like, women alchemize that energy, and, like, they band together. And I have seen, like, generations of pregnant women and babies. And it all stems from the idea of, like, the consistent meeting and, like, providing that space. And I think that was probably the it's like a lesson in and of itself. The idea of, like, I'm not taking anything for these women. Right? I'm not doing anything other than holding and creating space where they can be their most authentic selves, where they can learn to trust themselves, and just being that witness. And, yeah, the first birth that I attended, I was fucking scared. I was so scared. But to be able to know that, like, I just trusted her, and I knew her because I'd seen her at least. She visited, like, three of the circles that I had posted. So I'd started to know her. We had started to build this relationship, and it makes such a difference when you're doing this work out of sisterhood. Right? Out of
Speaker 4
It, like, deprofessionalizes it in the right ways.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't doing it because I needed to make money or I was coming from a place of, like, scarcity. I just truly wanted to offer what I had to them, and they were so willing to take someone who is very novice. Right? Like, I'm not there to save you. I'm not gonna know how to resuscitate your baby. That isn't my role here. And just being really clear with that and, like, also accepting that for myself. Right? Like, there is a level of knowing that I don't know. It was like
Speaker 4
That that should never that should never go away. That will actually grow deeper and deeper Yeah. For a few
Speaker 3
It has too. Right? I actually don't know anything, but I'm here to hold that space for you.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And when you do, you get your ass handed to you.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah. Totally. It is a quite
Speaker 4
a big ask. You know? I think it takes a tremendous amount of emotional intelligence and maturity to be willing to serve women without the medical framework because it it requires the birth keeper to really be able to sit in the mystery and in the not knowing that is pretty uncomfortable and can can can be experienced as very scary. In the medical framework, you always know. Right? There's always Yeah. A diagnosis and an explanation. And Mhmm. I'd say physiological birth doesn't really quite work that way.
Speaker 3
Definitely doesn't.
Speaker 4
Okay. So you get to attend these wild births pregnant. That's so fun. And anything you wanna share about your pregnancy? So much.
Speaker 3
My pregnancy was actually really when I look back, I'm like, oh, it was so good. It was so great. But I think I'm in this place of, like, wanting to create all over again. Because in reality, when I look back, I was sick pretty often. Like, my first trimester was pretty rough. I think I lived off of, like, milk, pizza, and, like, sometimes I loved I had weird cravings like frying up liver and butter. I know. Crazy. Yeah. So, like, that first trimester was pretty rough, and then the second was pretty good. But moving into the third from the transition from second to third, I got sick again. Like, I I, like, definitely felt ill, and I was just getting, like, so tired of having to nourish myself. I was not. Yeah. I was, like, pissed about it. I was mad. I It
Speaker 4
is, like, crazy can feel like a full time job.
Speaker 3
It does feel like a full time job. I will tell you that. Because I totally thought I would feel so good, and I'd be eating these big, beautiful, gorgeous plates of food, like, all of the time, and I was so looking forward to that. And I was, like, really heartbroken when that was part of it, baby. Yes. That's exactly what I took advantage of as far as, which is why I think I'm, like, my baby weight now because I was, like, eat all the food I didn't get in pregnancy. But, yeah, that was that was, like, a disappointing thing for me. But, overall, it was very useful. And the only complications that arose were the ones that I would, like, create for myself when I would try to pathologize myself and make things up pretty much. Like, one of the things I made up was that I had, like, hypertension and that preeclampsia was, like, coming for me. Oh. Uh-huh. Yeah. And my cousin, I was, like, watching her kids, couple times a month in the summer while I was pregnant, and she had a blood pressure cuff. And I was like, well, might as well just take my blood pressure to know how I'm doing. This is the worst idea in the world. I recommend this to no one. I've never used a blood pressure cuff before. And it it did nothing for me but allow me to spiral into these, like I had no baseline of, like, what my blood pressure was like. And then so to just, like, take it as I'm transitioning from the second to third trimester was just a shit idea. And, like, some of my numbers were really high at certain points, but I think I would just work myself up and then get that blood pressure cuff on and be like, fuck. Everything's fine. I have great blood pressure, and it's just, like, really high. But I I didn't have I mean, like, the only sign was that that I'd work myself up and take, blood pressure reading that was really high. And, of course, like, my feet started to swell up towards the end of my pregnancy, and that was about it. Those are the only signs that I had any basis to diagnose myself off of. But I think this is the game that I play. Right? Like, I'm actually so healthy and so taken care of and so nourished, and I'm not outsourcing this to anyone. So, like, I've gotta make this scary. Like, I've gotta make this something
Speaker 4
yes. We're all totally addicted to drama, but I think I think to give yourself a bit of credit also, I think it's a lot to especially in your first, you know, term pregnancy to be unraveling, untangling all of the societal conditioning in, like, one pregnancy. Like, it's it's it's a lot, and I think a lot of women create drama to test it.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 4
And, like, that's a slippery slope, obviously, and I've seen that go terribly wrong for plenty. Meaning, it would turn into, like, enormous self sabotage. But I think for others, you know, like, you were just, like, playing with it and testing it. And it's not like you went in and got an induction. You know? Like, you you felt you went to the boundaries of I'm assuming that you went to the boundaries of, like, your stress and feeling fear and, like, you know, gaming things out, and you still chose what you chose. So I I also think there can be quite a bit of, like, lesson and and growth in the deconditioning process.
Speaker 3
You know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. Totally. I agree with you. I think that there is just, like, a level of play. Right? And a level of meeting my edges. And, like, this level of, like, how can I expand? Right? Like, there's all of this physical expansion going on. So, of course, like, I'm just gonna start playing with some of these shadows. Right? Like, these things, these densities that are really coming up for me. And, yeah, I I remember just deciding at one point to screw the cuff, stop. And then if I really was concerned, what would I do for myself? Right? And so it was eat more protein. Right? Like, are you continuing to take care of yourself? What does it look like to nourish yourself? And so, like, I just really got on that train and was, vigilant about making sure that I was eating even if it, like, wasn't exactly what I wanted to be doing at that moment. I was, like, making sure to take care of myself and, like, changed everything. Because I knew I was like, well, what where is this getting me? Right? What am I gonna do? Enter into the system that I have purposely not entered into? So yeah. And that just kind of I think it actually just also opened the doors for my birth and how I set that up as well, like, where I refused to allow myself any kind of out. Right? Like, we have a midwife here locally who some women use occasionally for blood pressure readings or, like, getting an assessment, like, that kind of thing. And I just made sure that I never reached out to her. I remember consciously being like, if I do this, having any kind of backup plan, I don't know, ensures my fate in a way. I felt like it was, it was almost like I would be setting myself up for failure by having some type of backup plan or some kind of out if something went.
Speaker 4
Oh, and it it medicalizes your pregnancy. Like, if you engage with medical midwife, you're medicalizing your pregnancy and that comes with enormous risk, for what you're saying. Like, to just it's a slippery slope. So Mhmm. Okay. So then, yeah, take us into see, we've got the setup, and and what is it like leading up to to birth? And then tell us your story.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Leading up to birth. We live in a tiny house next to my parents. So we were actually adding on a room so that we had enough space. Like, this amount of space made it, like, five hundred and fifty square feet. This extra room. A hospital room's bigger than that. We, like, made this extra room. Like, my husband was, like, making this extra room and, like, he told me later. He was like, I was having conversations with the baby. Like, don't come till the room is done. Yeah. I you know, I never remember feeling like, oh my gosh. I'm too pregnant. I just, like, need to have this baby. I think I remember telling you. I was like, I'm prepping for, like, forty four weeks and an eleven pound baby.
Speaker 4
So how far did you go?
Speaker 3
I went forty one and three. Forty one and two, something like that. Yeah. Just after forty one weeks and a couple days, she decided to show up. We were watching a episode of Jeopardy. And then we turned the TV off, and I kicked my legs off the couch. Because you're a hundred year old dog. Memory I have. That's so cute. It wait. I'm sorry. We have to pause there. Do you guys watch Jeopardy, like, regularly? We used to. Yeah. That's amazing. That's so I know. We're, like, eighty year old people at heart.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Seriously. I love it. Okay. So you're watching Jeopardy.
Speaker 3
We were watching Jeopardy. It ended it's just like that thirty minute time where we'd, like, sit down and, you know, be jovial because it's Jeopardy. And and, I remember kicking my legs up to, like, get on onto the couch and, like, kind of cuddle up next to Brandon, and I had, like, the biggest contraction that I'd ever experienced. And, honestly, I didn't actually experience much in my pregnancy. I didn't really experience, you know, any of the things that women references like prodromal labor or brass Braxton Hicks. I had nothing really at all sensation wise.
Speaker 4
Wait till your next one. Shit.
Speaker 3
Things to stack. Actually, I do have a vivid memory of once where I thought I was gonna be birthing my baby. In my second trimester, I went for a swim in Lake Chelan, and I was doing, like, the breaststroke, you know, with the froggy legs. And I, like, did it so many times. It felt so good. And then the that evening, we went to a, rehearsal dinner and, like, rehearsal, and it's, like, over a hundred degrees. And I started sweating so bad, and, like, I, like, my muscles were so sore. I thought I've my blood had broken, and I was like, give you birth to this baby There you go. On this astroturf. Yeah. But it's not true at all. That was the only time I felt something. Headline, the head the title of this episode does not need
Speaker 4
to be a free birth on Astroturf.
Speaker 3
Beg on. Beg on. It all worked out. But, yeah, I got, like, the biggest contraction I ever felt, and so I was just like, okay. Hey, Brandon. You want to, like, set let's make sure the birth pool fits in that new room that you got set up. And so we had, like, moved this rocking chair out of it and set the birth tub up. And he is, I kid you not, siliconeing the transition from the actual house that we had lived into this next room. And I was just like, I'm in labor. I'm in labor. This is so insane. And, yeah, the contractions got really intense to the point that I was, like, not able to sleep. And, like, by ten o'clock, I was just in my kitchen pacing back and forth, just kind of like walking the wind and, like, the weather just started picking up like crazy. I remember all of this, like, wind and, like, high rain. And I remember walking outside and just, like, I'm, like, standing in my lawn and, like, the wind is, like, whipping my hair into my face and the rain's going and Oh, cool. Like, all of a sudden thunder and lightning starts happening and I'm like, yes. That's my primordial strength. Yes. I was like I just started bawling, just like crying so hard. Yeah. That was like a really pivotal moment where I was like, okay. Yeah. Like, this is happening. Take me now. Like okay. Side note. I was at
Speaker 4
a birth once where a woman's water broke literally during an earthquake.
Speaker 3
Oh my god. It
Speaker 4
was insane. And we felt it because we were in LA. It was like a good earthquake, and her water So powerful.
Speaker 3
And she was like, did I do that? Like, did you cause the earthquake? It was amazing. Okay. This is the claim. This is what my husband says that Zephyr my daughter and I, like, created this storm together for birth. Yeah. And we conjured it up and because she her name is actually, like, this gentle breeze, gentle wind. And it was like a shit storm outside. Yeah. So, like, I knew I was in labor. I'd gone outside and just, like, was trying to experience that, but the lightning kind of brought me back in. So I started making labor aid. Just, like, trying to do something with myself. It's, like, middle of the night, early morning. I can't sleep. And you know the oven clocks that are, like, so bright and, like, this blue light? I just remember looking at that clock and being like, wow. They're five minutes apart. Wow. They're, like, three minutes apart. Back to five. And then nothing. And then the sun came up, and I tried to sleep for a little bit. And that's when I told, my mom who lives next door that I was in labor, and I told her this so that she would stay away. Because otherwise, she'd come, like, knock on my door and be like, let's go on a walk. And, I did not want any of that. And so I had set this up really deliberately that she was not allowed near our space at all while I was in labor. And as soon as she got the message, she could, like, call whoever she wanted, which ended up being my sister who came over to support her. But she respected your space? She honored it. She respected it. Yeah. And I think that was really big for me was, like, during my pregnancy, sussing out whether or not I was gonna have a problem with that. Because I know that if I had, like, any inkling that she would have wanted to be there or she would have wanted to, like, see, I know that she carries fear with that. I just I know it. She had two hospital births. So, yeah, we probably would have been at an Airbnb or something like that if I felt that she was not gonna be able to honor that. I
Speaker 4
mean, most people carry fear with it. Right? Like, almost everyone. Like, it it's a big it's a big ask to hold that space without fear dominating.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And especially for a daughter. I don't know. Like, I think about now that I have a daughter, like, I would absolutely hold an expectation of what I'd want for her and it's like how scary it would be to have to sit there and witness and have no control.
Speaker 4
Oh, no way. Not for me.
Speaker 3
No. I know that I was horrible. Yeah. Who is well? Okay. Yeah. Okay. No. I didn't get where she was coming from. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. But she's coming from trauma and you're not. Yeah. It's gonna be totally different. Pot your birth and your future births are gonna be totally positive, embodied, intact experiences. And with that, I would assume I'm making this up about you because I know it's true for me. Like, okay. My kid's only five, so, like, I guess things could shift, but I'm thrilled for her to give birth. I don't have any sort of, like it's, like, the most epic thing ever. Why would it be? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, we're not traumatized.
Speaker 3
No. We're not. It's just so great. So great. Yeah. It's so great. I think and then why we do this. Okay. So Truly. Yeah. So then, okay, there's a whole complicated story in this, but my husband actually leaves for a little bit. He has, he's got, like, this appointment that he has to get to for licensing so that he so that we can all have the same last name. Oh my god. Bad timing. Oh, yeah. It was actually really bad timing, but he was like, oh, I'm not gonna go. I was like, you need to go. Just go. There's no way. Nothing's gonna happen right now. It's, like, nine thirty in the morning, and everything had just kind of slowed down for my labor. Right? Like, I was walking around. I was drinking water. I was able to, like, take care of myself. So I sent him off. And I remember he told me later, he's like, your mom texted me, like, three times. Did you just go somewhere? Yeah. Gosh. She's, like, watching through the window for sure. Totally was. But yeah. And then it just kind of slowed down from there, and it's all a blur. Right? Like, that day and for so Thursday night, I get my contractions. We set up the birth pool. I can't sleep. And then Friday day, I'm just, like, in and out of consciousness, like, in and out of the waves of some contractions, sleeping, sleep, wake with some contractions, back to sleep. Is, like, pretty much the ebb and flow of that day. And then that evening, Friday evening is where it, like, really picked up. And, like, yeah, when I think back to my birth, I just think about how much I didn't want it to hurt. I, like, prepped Brandon. I was like, get ready for the psychedelic sensual trip of your life. I mean, they're just like, says the maiden. Yes.
Speaker 4
And then it happens in in, spoiler alert. How did it go?
Speaker 3
Spoiler alert. He, at one point, was, like, asking me if he could touch my body. He was like, can I hold you? Can I touch you? And I'm like, yeah. Okay. Cool. Cool. And he just goes in from my belly. And I was like, don't touch it. Yeah. So that was the end of that. And, yeah, it was a lot of in and out of the birth pool. There was a lot of resistance. I had a lot of resistance to move through, and my maiden really wanted to stick around. She really was like, it's cool. Divine ethers, take this baby back. It's alright. We just wanna cuddle up on our bed with our dog and sleep. Because, like, this is it. Right? Like, in labor, the internal conversation that is going on with yourself is, like, epic and out of this world. And I'm glad that's not recorded anywhere ever. But, I remember being like, you can take this baby back. You can take this baby back. And I remember, like, feeling her in my birth canal, like, knocking, like, knocking, like, she was there. And I was like, no. No. No. And her and I have had this conversation since where, like, yes, I love you. I'm so glad grateful you're here. And at first, I thought it was like this battle between me and this baby, and there was, like, just this flood of realization that it was like, no. Like, you you're gonna be a mother. Like, you're gonna be a mother at the end of this. And, yeah, I think that there was this level of being incredibly scared and, like, this resistance to embodying that and really taking that on and knowing the responsibility that laid ahead of me. It was, like, a really big internal battle. My mother went out. Everything's great. But, yeah, I I do really remember that as being, like, this point of resistance for myself, and I really fought it. And I think, you know, I feel like the physical really emulated what was going on mentally. Right? Like, that conversation, like, that physical aspect of it being hard and, like, of myself having resistance to that pain was really just, like, mirroring that for myself.
Speaker 4
And we're so programmed to resist pain, you know. It's so hard.
Speaker 3
Like, to dissociate, to get to take it away, to take a pill, to get rid of it. To not want it. Yeah. And just, like, knowing that there was even an epidural that could be available to me. Like, I was I took on so many other women's stories as my own throughout that birth, like, pathologizing myself as things were going along. And, like, I think it was just, like, me in desperation Totally. Grasping for whatever and, like, trying to get my husband to, like, buy in. Like, I remember this. Yeah. Like, I remember being, like, something's wrong. Something is just, like, something is wrong. And he's, like, what what's wrong? What's wrong? And I was, like, there's no blood, and I'm in pain. He's just like, okay. That's a good one. Oh my god. And then, like, I have this list of women that he could call, you know. And when I said something was wrong, he's like, okay, okay. I'll just I'll call somebody. Right? And I remember talking to this woman being like, something's wrong. There's no blood. I'm in pain. This isn't okay. And she goes, yeah. It sounds like you're in labor. And I was like, hang up the phone. Like, I don't wanna hear these things. I want somebody to buy in. I, like, really wanted that mark in the desert epidural.
Speaker 4
Although, I will say here for anyone listening, if there's not that, like, this is a great setup, but, like, I am truly convinced if any maiden turning mother could see, you know, thirty epidurals before they themselves gave birth, it would not be tempting. It wouldn't even, like, empty it wouldn't even enter your mind because it's pitched in our culture as a get out of pain free card. And when you actually see it, it's not that at all. And it's so horrific to watch it get done and to watch, you know, the the, essentially, the spinal tap and the the incomplete pain. Oh, I just hit my mic. And the, you know, the mom getting high on narcotics and the disassociation, and, like, it's so freaky. If there's a way for you somehow to witness it, it it really does, I think, take it take it away. But, yes, the fantasy that I I love I
Speaker 3
love seeing like, can anyone buy in? That's so funny. Yeah. I just, like, really remember it. And I, like, remember at one point being like, oh, he did. He bought in. He bought in. And then I look a little bit hard. He's just scrolling, you know, on Instagram. And I'm like, shit. Back to labor, I guess. Yeah. And I think that was, like, also part of the game that I was playing where, like, I had to get out the last of, like, that programming, that idea of somebody can take this for me because there there wasn't anybody too. And, god, I'm so glad. Right. I'm just so glad.
Speaker 4
Well, that's why women free birth is so that when they get dramatic as hell and when they try to sabotage themselves,
Speaker 3
no one's around to support them in that. You know? Yeah. Like, dramatic as hell is a great way to experience it because I also remember learning a lot about rage while I was pregnant. And I was like, oh, I feel like I'll be able to, like, rage in my birth at one point. Like, I'll be able to do that, and I did. Like, I remember being so mad that it hurt. And I was, like, punched the the birth tub, like, the side of the birth tub, and I punched the wall at one point. I was just, like, so mad. Intramaine.
Speaker 4
Totally. But this is birth. Yes. It's a tantrum. Tantrums are great.
Speaker 3
It's like so amazing. I just, like, wanted this peaceful psychedelic thing, and I just got, like, hit with it hard. And, like, the resistance was absolutely there, but at some point, my body was like, you're done. Like, there's no more resistance that can happen. I just remember the first, like, real experience where, like, my fundus pushed down. My, like, head flew back. My back arched. And, like, everything. Like, the force of the world was, like, moving through me. Like, I was the channel. And, like, that was the moment where I had I had no words. Like, absolutely nothing. I was just like, I have no control.
Speaker 4
Was it psychedelic at all, though, for you even though it's also, like, horrible and painful?
Speaker 3
I think that this is the point where it did just, like that's where I entered another world. Right? Like, that's what I finally like I guess that was my spiral into the underworld, and then there I was just, like, in it. And I remember I had a vision, and I'm still unsure of who was there. But it was like this woman, and I remember seeing her feet, and she had on, like, this white nightgown. And, yeah, I even remember somebody else's hands with mine when my daughter did emerge, and my husband wasn't in the room. So, yeah, there was definitely, like, the psychedelic aspect to it, like, where somebody was with me. I was visioning. I was definitely not in in that realm. There were pieces of me that were not, and then there were pieces of me that were. Yeah. I had moved into the bathroom after, like, those feelings, like, where I was just getting my ass kicked. And those were the waves, like, where the backward arch, my head would fly back, and, like, my fundus would just push down. And I remember, like, kind of getting down on my knees and working with those waves. And I remember feeling down, and I felt, like, this bulge coming out. And I yelled to Brandon that I was birthing my bladder. I was like, it's my bladder. It's, like, blocking the baby from coming out. I haven't peed. Like, this was full transition for me. And, like, that's when he called down the list again because he was looking. He's like, it looks white. And I was like, it's my bladder. It was definitely my waters. They had never broken, and it's funny to look back on it now and be like, yeah. Totally, Carlin. It's your bladder. But there's, like, no rational side to anything that I was saying. The entire birth
Speaker 4
never gone through it. It's insane.
Speaker 3
This is when I think about, like, how can how would I have consented to anything if somebody never told me? Like
Speaker 4
No consent.
Speaker 3
There it's yeah. It's bullshit because that was just so crazy. Yeah. It was, like, not in my body at all. So, like, all of those projections came through and But also
Speaker 4
you have no reference point for a bag of waters bulging through your vulva. Like, it I actually it makes total sense that you'd be grasping at, like, what might seem like a more logical thing, you know, if it's not, like, if you know the birth landscape. But I don't think I mean, you are not the first woman who has called me and told me,
Speaker 3
my bladder is coming up. Really? That's so validating. I love that. It's alright. Amazing. Yeah. And, yeah.
Speaker 4
And then I was on
Speaker 3
the phone with you. And you'd you'd call us back after god. This was early morning for me. Zephyr so we got through Friday evening, and we're into Saturday morning when I really started going through, like like, this FER style, like, pushing, like, where my body was just doing it all on its own. I had no control. And I was on the bathroom floor on my on my knees and just, like, working with those. And I remember hearing your voice on the phone, and I was just, like, roaring. And I remember you saying, those are the sounds that are gonna bring your baby here. And it clicked. I was like, oh, yeah. I'm in labor.
Speaker 4
Oh, really? You only had a five minute birth.
Speaker 3
So really, I needed that reminder twenty nine hours in. You know? Yeah. And, just, like, remembering I think what was really nice about the presence of you, right, like having a woman there in any sense was just, like, the reminder just, like, being the mirror for me. Yes. You are in labor. Yes. Keep doing this. Yes. Relax when you when you can, and then bear down when you feel that. And it was so great to just, like, have that as I was actually just, like, moving through it and experiencing it. And just, like, having that mirror was, made such a difference.
Speaker 4
It's orienting. Right? Like, that's what we need usually at that point is Uh-huh. For someone to just orient us because it is so disorienting to be getting thrashed around that hard and to not know what which way is upside down and just Yeah. To have someone just be like, this is what's happening. I I feel like I needed that so bad in my first birth and didn't have the right person to, yeah, to orient me. It's it's really hard to do. Right?
Speaker 3
Yeah. It totally is. Yeah. That orientation, yeah, I'm so grateful for. And, I mean, she at that point was was like she was crowning, really. I remember my husband being like, your legs are purple. He's so worried about my legs. And you're like, maybe you can get up and shake them. And I'm like, no. She's like, crowding. She's like, right here. No way. Yeah. And I just remember relaxing into it and her little head coming out, and then her body was just, like, the next natural wave, that I had. I didn't have to bear down with that, and she just slipped right out and into my hands. And I remember just, like, bringing her forward to me. Yeah. It was really, really special to see her, like, look at me. And, like, looking into those eyes and being like, I know you. Like, I've known you for forever. And then she starts crying. And I swear there were other hands. I mentioned this. Right? Like, I swear there were some other hands there helping me. And I don't know whose they were because my husband had left the room to go get the right receiving blanket. He wanted, like, just the right blanket to, like, wrap her up in when she came out. And so his story is he heard some baby cries, and he was like, what's their baby? And then he's like, it's my baby. And then he was, like, running into the bathroom to find us, and I told him it was a girl. Okay. And then this is the this is an interesting part. Do you remember me wanting to, like, suck and spit?
Speaker 4
Not really.
Speaker 3
Okay. I remember being like, we've gotta we've gotta, like, bring her up to me like I had to, like Even though she's crying? Yeah. Even though she's crying. Yeah. So this is so this is a very interesting thing. Right? Because I think it's just videos that I've seen of women sucking and spinning, but I had never actually seen it in person. All of the births that I attended, nobody did that that I had seen. And so she was crying bright and beautiful and didn't need any of that.
Speaker 4
And interestingly, more if if a baby is going to, be supported by by something more often than not, it's not gonna be a suck. It's actually gonna be a blow.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like a breath.
Speaker 4
To ex yeah. To expand, not to contract.
Speaker 3
Mhmm. Yeah.
Speaker 4
But for anyone listening, I mean, if you're if you're well, I've never seen a birth ever that I felt needed a suck. Mothers should do whatever feels right to their you know, with their babies, of course. But, we had an interesting thread about this in the membership, and a lot of women were very, vulnerable in admitting that they did it because they had seen videos of it on Instagram, and it felt performative. And in retrospect, they didn't think their babies needed it. And, it's pretty interesting how things trend.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, I actually love that I didn't do it. Because what I ended up doing was, like, I licked the side of her face. Yeah. Exactly. I was like, ah, yes. Like, baby. And I just remember counting all of her fingers and toes over and over again. Like, five. Okay. Five. That's normal. Right? Like Oh my god. In the in the middle of the night, the first
Speaker 4
couple of nights, this postpartum I just had, it would be, like, sup with the low Himalayan Himalayan salt lamp on and, you know, you're, like, tripping for days. And Oh, yeah. Kept thinking I saw a sixth toe, and I kept being like, wait. Wait. Wait. Hold on.
Speaker 3
And we're counting. Right?
Speaker 4
It's just five. Okay. That's so weird.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Totally. Yep.
Speaker 4
I forgot about that. Okay. Yes. I love that I got to hear her first cry. That's really a special a special memory for me. I remember laying in our guest room, laying on my side listening and getting getting to hear that. Yeah. So sweet. And you
Speaker 3
gave her you gave us her birth time, which was so lovely to have that as well. Like, there are just some things that are nice to have that additional woman there for. And then, god, then I just was like, let's take me to the bed. I just need to lay down and relax with her. And I did for a little bit. I'd say, like, a good half hour, forty five minutes, and then I got up and tried to squat over a bowl near my bed, for the placenta release, but there wasn't that didn't really work for me. So I walked to the bathroom, and I had, Brandon turn the lights off, and we were just sitting there. I was sitting on the toilet. He was holding baby. And, I just gave a little tiny tug on my cord, and my placenta just came out and then a bunch of pee. Oh, yeah. So it's, like, such a relief. Oh my gosh. It's like the best feeling ever. And we did a lotus style birth, so I had, like, this beautiful wood bowl that I put her placenta in, and I put salt over it and some herbs, and we were just enjoying that beautiful time together. And it was so lovely to, like, call my mom and my sister over and be like, we did it. Here's a baby. You know? Actually, the way they got called over was kinda traumatic. Brandon was like, baby's here. We need help, which was Oh my god. Brandon. Jesus. It was super messed up because I remember okay. Like, when you're sitting there after birth, like, you're in shock. Right? Like, there's this level of shock that's happened to me. I didn't I thought I would, like, cry and bawl, but it was, like, no. There was just, like, this shock element.
Speaker 4
Yeah. No. That doesn't happen till day three.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Definitely happened day three when my milk came in. I was like balling and Of course. Flowing from all orifices. And I just remember, like, you know in those movies where somebody's high and, like, everybody's moving around and it's just like a blur? Like, that's totally how it felt. But I remember the look on my mom's face. I was like, she was worried. Like, is everything okay? Like, what's going on? And then Brandon was like, the message I sent, like, wasn't a good one. I was like, oh my god. It all makes sense now. It's because she was, like, relieved and, like, happy and sweet and yeah. It was really nice. They helped us clean up, and we were just able to lay there and enjoy our time.
Speaker 4
That's ideal.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It really was. And then eventually, I think after a couple days, I finally just kind of, like, snipped the end of that really stiff cord off because it was just getting awkward and pulling on her weirdly. But yeah. That's it. Yeah. And nursing was, like, no problem at all. I she latched right away after birth, like, after I I remember licking the side of her face and bringing her down to my nipple, and she just immediately latched. And what a phenomenal feeling that is to have your baby latch to you like that. It's such a connection. Yeah. It's like magic. And it was, yeah, it was so easeful. We haven't had a problem at all, which I'm very, very blessed to say.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. And now you're getting ready for another one, you think?
Speaker 3
Oh, man. She's fourteen months, and I'm starting to feel that creative energy again like that. I wanna channel it differently. I'm like, k. Pump the brakes. Let's channel this. Totally. Start a business. Yeah. I wanna start something so that you don't have another baby because I want a little bit more time, about two years. And then we'll see.
Speaker 4
It's nice to take a beat in between nursing and pregnancy again to, like, just have your own body
Speaker 3
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Attached. You know?
Speaker 3
Totally, like, have my own body back. But it's amazing how just, like, as a Right. Yeah. We're still nursing. Yeah. We're still nursing. I know it's starting she's like yeah. She acts a lot like a two year old, so I'm just, like, waiting for some of that separation to come. It's like I'm already feeling it. Like, I feel like she's more like eighteen months, and we're working on that idea of just, like, leaving that part of the relationship entirely, and I think that will just naturally happen in the next few months for us. But it's amazing as a woman how I'm starting to feel that separation, and I'm and I'm already creating that fusion again in, like, this new way. So I'm exploring that and what that looks like and
Speaker 4
As if we're designed that way.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Who knew?
Speaker 4
Thank you. Love it. So proud of you.
Speaker 3
Yes. Thank you. I am just so elated that I'm here speaking with you about this. I remember finding this podcast forever ago and, yeah, just to come full circle and be here with you and It's pretty cool. To, like, fully embrace this. Yeah. And the the womanhood and the women's work, and it's it's what we need in this world. And I'm humbled to be a part of your your lighthouse and everything that you are.
Speaker 4
Thank you, girlfriend.
Speaker 3
I love you. Love you.
Speaker 2
And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching. Learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, The Complete Guide to Free Birth. Don't miss the Radical Birth Keeper School if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise, and the revolution starts inside each of us. I'll leave you with our Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 5
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging out babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back to the star.
