Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom
Speaker 2
change since
Speaker 0
I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 3
I'm excited to share that the Blood Mysteries School is open for enrollment. This is a one of a kind comprehensive education that blends the sacred and the science of the seasons of womanhood. It's the education that most women don't receive and that all of us deserve. It's led by two powerful medicine women, my dear friends, Nancy Lucina and Kristen Hauser, who who have thirty years of combined wisdom and knowledge that they have poured into this program. This is not your basic fertility awareness program. This school provides you with the tools to heal yourself, self, practices to embody your womb wisdom, and opportunities to practice sharing your unique voice. We leave no stone unturned, including technical teachings about our hormones, herbal wisdom, the archetypal energies of our cycle, tools for leading women's groups and ceremonies, and so much more. Doors are open now to the Blood Mysteries School, but spots are limited, and we sold out last time. If you dream of being the medicine woman of your community, come join us in the Blood Mysteries School. Today on the show, I invite back for the fifth time, the brilliant Kristin Hauser. Kristin, the co leader of the Blood Mysteries School, a womb and sexual health educator, and an experienced free birthing mom and good friend of mine brings the story of her third birth at home surrounded by family. She tells of the joyful emergence of her son, her daughter's excited response, and the healing power of being witnessed by her own mother. Kristen recalls the ease she felt through postpartum, crediting it to her experience as a third time mom and how she drew upon her knowledge of women's sacred times, having the tools to support herself. Kristen speaks to the alchemy of her own womb healing journey and how it shapes her current practice as a woman's health coach, a mother, and a leader within her community. The Blood Mysteries School that Kristen facilitates with Nancy Lucina is open for enrollment now.
Speaker 4
Hello, Kristen.
Speaker 5
Hi, Emilee.
Speaker 4
We're back again.
Speaker 5
Again. Yeah. I think this is, like, the fourth or fifth time I've been on the podcast, which is exciting.
Speaker 4
That is exciting. Yeah. I feel like you're you're on almost every season. And so if you are new to Kristen Houser, go ahead and check out all the other ones. We'll make Mhmm.
Speaker 2
We'll
Speaker 4
put in the show notes all your different stories, and and, it's not just your birth stories that are on the podcast. So happy to have you today because we birthed very close to each other, and that's done. And we're here to hear your latest free birth story of your son, and we're also celebrating the, the doors being open to enrollment for our program that Freebird Society sells that you and Nancy teach, the Blood Mystery School. So we're gonna get into kind of how those are woven together, how you showing up in the world as this, incredible guide for other women has, become possible, right, from this path that you've walked and how free birth we're gonna talk about how free birth, yeah, melts into all of that.
Speaker 5
Yeah. I'm excited. And I'm I know I was just so I like, thinking back on this birth and that we were so close together, I think it was, like, a week or less maybe. You had your baby, like, right after I had mine, and we both had boys. And there were other boys born in
Speaker 4
the community that time too. The whole crew was boys. That was crazy. Yeah. Well, you were mid September?
Speaker 5
My birth was September twenty seventh, and I think what yours was, like, October Yeah.
Speaker 4
Okay. It was October third. So, yes, I remember texting you and being like, we are the last women standing.
Speaker 5
We're the last ones to go.
Speaker 4
Oh my gosh. Okay. Awesome. Well, so I don't know. Where where should we start? Do you wanna give some, context of
Speaker 5
what you
Speaker 4
are and the work you do?
Speaker 5
Yeah. So I think, like, what's what's interesting to start with is, like, the way I arrived at free birth and how free birth has, like, been such an easy decision for me is because of sort of the the muck and the shit that I went through, around my womb and hormone health prior to even conception. So I kinda feel like my babies have been guiding me, like, throughout this process, like, way back. You know?
Speaker 4
Like how
Speaker 5
Several probably at least twenty. Like, twenty or even younger than twenty, because that's when I started kind of having a lot of issues with period pain and, also, like, this kind of spiritual identity crisis and started sort of discovering a lot of the tools that I use today, like, in in the work that I do with women. But it was through that process that, like, I started peeling back the layers and sort of removing myself from the modern medical paradigm. Right? So it's like I had menstrual pain, and what do they offer for that? It's like an immediate well, you can take birth control or prescription pain meds or both, and, like, that's it. Yeah. Have to
Speaker 4
fall down the hatch and see what happens. Yeah.
Speaker 5
It does. Matter. So I knew that I didn't wanna do that, and I was like, okay. This, like, this entire model and system system and way of relating to the body, like, it just doesn't make sense, and it I didn't find it useful. So then I had to find other solutions. So I think the fact that I had already started sort of, like, removing myself from that whole matrix of, pathologizing the body and thinking that something external is going to be what resolves an issue for you. Since I had done some of that work, it was like, well, why would I go to that system for, like, a normal process, that being pregnancy? Right? Like, why would I even engage with that model
Speaker 4
of care? So when you when they suggested the birth control and the other pharmaceuticals, you didn't even try it? You just already knew it was a no for you?
Speaker 5
No. So I didn't try the pain the pain medication was an immediate no for me, but I, I did try the hormonal birth control. I didn't even make it a month, like, on I I think I took the pill, like, five times, and I was like, no. This is not gonna work for me. And then I used the, NuvaRing, which is terrible. You should never use it. But I did for, like, six months, and then I was like I got that sort of flat affect that a lot of women will describe around hormonal contraceptives is, like, I just didn't feel like anything. I just kinda felt like flat or just
Speaker 4
It's like flat. Not a lot of emotional changes. It's exactly how they want us.
Speaker 5
Yeah. You know? It's like, just be the same every day and Shut up. Don't cause any problems. Oh. And don't reproduce because it's there's overpopulation. And, anyways, so, yeah, that didn't last long either. Unfortunately, I was not on any contraceptives when I met my husband, which I'm super grateful for. But, yeah, that was I just it wasn't for me. And I kind of have, like, the leg up that I grew up in a family that was open to alternative medicine, and my dad's a chiropractor. So, I didn't receive vaccinations as a kid. Like, we didn't get antibiotics that often. I mean, maybe once or twice, but, like, that was a really rare occasion. So I kind of already had some ideas about that. And then going through that whole initiation around specific women's issues, like women's health issues, was, like, kind of the last push out of that paradigm. And so, yeah, it was just easy for me to arrive eventually at free birth. And you can listen to my other stories because my first story was not really a free birth, but my set my last two births were.
Speaker 4
So I know this isn't necessarily what we're here to talk about, but now I wanna know, like, just to finish that story around in your twenties with the painful periods and turning away from the system that didn't actually offer you anything. Like, okay. So you try the NuvaRing. You get rid of that. And then how do you not that it's necessarily a simple answer, but, like, how do you who who do you become that you fix the pain of your periods and and become this, holistic?
Speaker 5
Yeah. I mean, it was just step by step. It was like, okay. Well, if that's not what I'm gonna do, but, like, I don't wanna live with this pain that I was having every every cycle, literally, like, really debilitating pain. And I just started learning. Like, I just, read a lot of books. I, changed my lifestyle. I made, like, dietary changes, like, got into gut healing. I mean, I eventually went to school for to study Chinese medicine. So it was just, like, layers that I kind of had to move through. And it wasn't overnight, obviously. Like, it took time, and there was this whole sort of undercurrent of exploring my own relationship to just being a woman and how what that was like for me and where I had had some ruptures, in my teens, like, around my relationship with my mother and sort of excavating some of that pain. And I started to see some benefits just, like, over time. So it was a long process. I would say, like, five plus years to to, like, really feel like it shifted, and I was, like, settled in that new platform of okayness or, like, that new reality of not having to live with that pain.
Speaker 4
And you did get out of having hard cycles.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I mean, like I said, it was just, like, an incremental changes, but it was, like, consistently getting better until it was resolved.
Speaker 4
So, yeah, women can go back and listen to your your previous journeys. But for anyone who is brand new and just hearing you for the first time, I mean, give us a little bit of an overview of who you are as you become a mother and kind of kind of, you know, in a short way, catch us up too.
Speaker 5
I can catch you up. So I'm on my, this is my third baby. So, going into my first birth, it was a conscious conception, and I had, I was finished with my acupuncture degree, and I was, like, working as an acupuncturist, like, working with a lot of women one on one. And we were ready and, welcome that baby in, and I got I can see really quickly, had a fairly, easy pregnancy. And it wasn't really until the end of that pregnancy that I started considering free birth because of the regulations placed on midwifery, and I was living in California at the time. And so that was, like, my first taste of well, I guess I could do this alone if I needed to.
Speaker 4
Was there a specific regulation that you came up against that you were like, wait. I don't like that.
Speaker 5
Well, I didn't come up against them, but I was they were in my awareness because I had done some birth work prior to that. So I was a birth doula for a while around that period of time. And so I knew, okay. I hired this licensed midwife. If I birth before thirty seven weeks, like, she can't come. If it's after forty two, she won't be there. If it's, like, water's open for more than twenty four hours, there's gonna be interventions. And and all those things I was not comfortable with. And I was like, well, I don't necessarily wanna be alone as a first time mom, and I'm not willing to go to the hospital for x, y, or z, and I don't want midwifery interventions either. You know? So it's like, I didn't wanna, like, take castor oil or do all these other things that, like, we've we've become accustomed to midwives doing. So it put me in a tricky position. Not I mean, it was good and that, like, I kinda went through that initiation and arrived at the end of my pregnancy and was like, what you know, I'm fine if I come up against one of those regulations. I wasn't concerned about it because I was so resolved internally that, like, I was not going if if that meant my midwife couldn't come, then I would birth alone or with my husband.
Speaker 4
Gotcha. Oh, that is risky business. You know? That's risky business. Obviously, you you did and could and and knew yourself to be able to handle that. But the, like, other side of that is, yeah, navigating potential abandonment is so such an intense thing to play out in real time. It it like, it didn't happen for you.
Speaker 5
It didn't happen for me, but if it had yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Okay. Yes. I I remember this.
Speaker 5
So I wasn't abandoned. Yeah. You were Because my birth was quick, and my midwife was only there for, like, the last thirty minutes, and he came out and yeah. So you can listen to that story. And then my second birth, was about two years later. And going into that pregnancy, I kind of just knew, like, that I was gonna have a free birth and yeah. And that was that. It it was You did. And I did. And yeah. And now she's almost four. So
Speaker 4
Wow. Yeah. And so then you move and catch us up from
Speaker 5
Yeah. So now your
Speaker 4
daughter to this pregnancy.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So, I got pregnant with my third when my daughter was, like, o just over two and a half, and we, we relocated during that pregnancy. So that and that happened, like, in my third trimester, like, during my son's pregnancy, my most recent one.
Speaker 4
Oh, I didn't realize you moved that late in your pregnancy.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Because it was, yeah, it was, like, thirty I think I was about thirty two or thirty three weeks at the time. It was definitely, like, pushing the the limit. But it yeah. It was also it was also, like, a good time to move, and I sort of like, I had an in person practice in California that I transitioned to another practitioner, and it gave me a little more time, like, in flexibility leading up to this birth, which was nice. But it was a big undertaking to move, obviously, during during a third trimester with two younger kids and all of that.
Speaker 4
And you also didn't move down the street. You moved No.
Speaker 5
I moved from California to Kansas. So, yeah, it was a big move.
Speaker 4
Okay. So how is this pregnancy for you? And, you know, let's just kinda get into to the pregnancy for a little bit now. Like, what what were what were the lessons of this pregnancy for you? The big takeaways in retrospect now.
Speaker 5
Yeah. I think, I had, like, I had I I kind of went into the pregnancy, and I had just we had just like, my husband and I had just kind of started talking about, like, well, are we gonna expand our family or, like, what are what's our plan? And then my son just, like, was like, yeah. You are. Like, you're I'm coming now, so surprise. You're I'm here. And, but we were really excited about it, and I I don't know. I just had, like, a a pretty easeful pregnancy. Like, I didn't it was just kind of living my life. And, of course, there are little things here and there. Like, I'm sure I was tired sometimes and certain things. But generally speaking for me, I I feel like my my overall vitality increases during pregnancy, and I know that's not the case for everyone. But it does feel like a real palpable thing for me personally. And I think that was maybe one of my big takeaways from this pregnancy is just, like, pregnancy is such a state of, like, vital life force. And in the Chinese medicine tradition, we consider pregnancy to be, like, a state of excess because you have more blood, more water. Like, you have all this, like, all these hormones. So it is kind of this abundance of energy, moving through your system. It doesn't always arrive or feel that way. I know, like, fatigue is a very common experience in pregnancy and, obviously, like, digestive stuff or morning sickness. But I think generally speaking, it really can be, like, such a big expression of life force energy, and I definitely feel like I experienced that with this pregnancy. I think part of what helped that helped with that was, like, I was a little bit I had more space between these last two two pregnancies than I did with my first two. So I got pregnant with my daughter, which is my second, when my son was fourteen months old, and it was just, like, too quick for me personally. So I think for everyone. For everyone. Physiologically, I would say. Yes. Oh. Yeah. So it was just kind of intense, and it felt really good to, like, be pregnant again and have my kids be a little bit older and, like, just have more kind of space for myself during the pregnancy because, like, I didn't have a toddler or, like, a small smallish baby.
Speaker 4
Okay. So anything else about your pregnancy, or it just was pretty integrated, pretty straightforward?
Speaker 5
Yeah. I mean, I I feel like with my last two pregnancies, it's been, like, just part of my life, and I didn't, have, like, any type of traditional prenatal care in my last two pregnancies. I probably I think I listened with the fetoscope, like, once in my last pregnancy. Like, that was that was that. But I did really enjoy like, we had I had a great village prenatal community when I was in San Diego, and we would meet every month. And that felt, like, super nourishing, and we would just, like, sing songs and eat together and talk about what was up for all of us. And that was really, really sweet. I really loved that. And
Speaker 4
Did you attend sisters at the festival?
Speaker 5
And I did attend sister morning stars at the festival, and that was, like, a really sweet way to, like, honor myself during pregnancy and just, like, welcome this little baby in. So, yeah, there were definitely, like, high points like those. But, otherwise, I was just sort of going about my normal life.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'm wondering too how much of, you know, it being so integrated and easeful for you, you know, yeah, has to do with how much you know about or how much you utilize your knowledge of all this women's health. I guess, where because where I'm coming
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4
For me, I had a really hard pregnancy with Sawyer, and I'm pretty convinced it's because I wasn't that healthy going into it. But I know that's, like, arguable because some women eat McDonald's all day and have. So
Speaker 5
I think it is arguable because I've seen it go, like, so many different ways. Right. Of course, I use certain tools, herbs, like, other things, acupuncture, like bodywork. But, I mean yeah. I don't know. I think it is, like, also a constitutional thing. Like, there's so many factors to it.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 5
You never know. Like, I could have another pregnancy, and it could be difficult. It's just, like, sometimes there are there's more to it than just the physical layer. And, of course, providing your body with physical support is a good thing to do, generally speaking. So, yeah, I'm I'm curious to hear about your experience. I know that's, like, not what this episode is about, but I think, also, when we get into the that kind of territory, we're also talking about the baby too. It's like the energetics of the baby and how does that how is that expressing itself through the pregnancy as well. So it's yeah. There's lots of factors to consider when you're, like, considering how a woman is feeling through her pregnancy.
Speaker 4
I I think I literally just worked the entire time and, like, didn't, like, walk in the woods.
Speaker 5
Yeah. And so that's probably a big part of it.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, yeah, it doesn't feel like that mysterious why I got so rocked. But I, you know, I only have my sample size of two pregnancies, which is, like, very, very small of what I did differently between the two. Anyway okay. So anything else you wanna share about about the pregnancy before we get into your birth and and and also anything about, like, what it feels like to prepare to have a third child in your life homework, you know, being a woman who works and runs a business and just that feels
Speaker 5
kind of That feels relevant. I I remember at times, I was kind of like, I'm not giving this baby enough attention or, feeling like I wasn't doing enough to prepare. And I would kind of have to stop myself and and remind myself that that this is just, like, a very normal part of life, and I don't this baby is already with me, like, is me in a way, so I don't have to do something specific all the time to connect with the baby or even, you know, even prepare for birth. Like, I didn't not really do that much at all to prepare this time. Like, besides getting a few things together and, like, talking to my kids about what was gonna happen.
Speaker 4
What's there even to do?
Speaker 5
Yeah. It's like, yeah. It's like, what are like, I don't know what should I be doing. It's nothing. Yeah. So that was
Speaker 4
I remember the middle of the night in the middle of the night, like, very pregnant, like, at the end, turning to Johnny and going, oh, we haven't discussed the birth at all. Should we do anything? I mean, he was like like, what? I was like, I have no idea. I have one thing I should do to prepare. We just laughed about it. Oh, that's different than
Speaker 5
Yeah. It is. It is. Yeah. I mean, that was the same, like, with my husband's because it was our second free birth together and third birth together. So he was just like he's like, yeah. Just, you know, I'll take off work when the baby comes, and, like, that's all I need to know.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 5
So Love that. So, yeah, the preparation part of the preparation was moving to be, like, closer to my family and have a little more infrastructure around us. And that's been really nice because my older two have had, like, a lot more support, than we than we probably would have had in California. So just, like, a lot more adults around to take them places or take the you know, for them to go to their house. And I feel like that was probably a big factor that just made it a little more easy in regards to the postpartum time was that I knew there were gonna be people around to take care of the older two and, like, go do fun things with them when I was resting with the baby.
Speaker 4
Who all do you have? Just your parents, or are there siblings too? Or
Speaker 5
I have two brothers here. Both my parents and both my parents are sort of remarried, so it's kind of like two sets of grandparents in one place. Yeah. And lots of yeah. Cousins, like, other aunts, uncles. So Oh. Pretty my family is, like, pretty central in here in the Midwest. So, yeah, that part has been definitely helpful. Mhmm. And that was, like, a easy way to prepare. It's just like, well, we can we'll be closer to family, and that is, like, in itself preparation. Mhmm. But, yeah, as far as, like, preparing myself for three, I think I went through such a deep initiation going from one to two that I was like, I just know it can't be that intense again having, like, a two year old and a newborn. So, like, it's fine. Like yeah. I'm like, it's gonna be just fine. And it was. It was a lot easier than going from one to two for sure. For us. I know everyone's different.
Speaker 4
But close. Yeah. Yeah. That's really intense. Okay. So tell us your birth story.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So, this was my longest pregnancy. Still not super long, less than forty one weeks. But, yeah, it was just like like, all of my births kind of begin with this, like, fading in and out of, like, is it happening? Is it not? Really around, like, thirty seven weeks, I start to get, like, useful or powerful, you could say, birth sensations, like contractions that are, like, very sporadic just occasionally every you know, once a day or even once every few days.
Speaker 4
And that happened with all three of your kids?
Speaker 5
Yeah. It happened with all three. And so that starts around thirty seven weeks, and then it's like a few weeks of kind of that. Just occasionally feeling like, oh, yeah. Something is happening. But my method, my sort of way of of that of of moving through that is just like, I won't say ignoring it, but also just, like, not making it mean anything. Right? It's just like, okay. That's what's happening now. And yeah. So that went on. I remember there, like, there is kind of a funny part of the story is I was around thirty seven or thirty eight weeks, and, like, we went and we had just moved, and it was, like, super hot. And I was, like, trying to get the kids outside, and we went on this very short hike. And it was like, oh my god. We were dying of heat, and I was sweating and all this stuff. And I got, like, all these bites, and I don't know if it was, like, from ticks or oak mites or whatever. But it was the most intense, like, itching experience I've ever been through. I'm, like, thirty eight weeks pregnant. I have, like, this huge belly. I'm, like, have hundreds of little welts on me. I don't know if I had an allergic reaction to the bites or whatever, but that really, like, took me under for a bit that like, for a week, I was just like, I just do not wanna go into into labor while I'm, like
Speaker 2
Sure.
Speaker 5
Feeling like this. Like, I wasn't able to sleep that well. I was, like, putting cold or, like, frozen bacon packs, like, packs of frozen bacon on my body at night because, like, I couldn't get away from the itch.
Speaker 4
Oh my god. Was it on just your legs?
Speaker 5
It was everywhere, Emilee. It was, like, on my belly, on my arms, my legs, my head.
Speaker 4
Oh my god. I wonder what they were.
Speaker 5
A lot of people here were like, they're oak mites. They're oak mites. I'm like, I don't know. Whatever. Like, I just want them to go away. So that was pretty intense.
Speaker 4
That is really intense.
Speaker 5
And after that, I was like, I'm done. Like, I'm staying at home. Yeah. And so after that, I kind of really claimed the nest and, was home a lot and just around our new house and getting kind of getting this place to feel, like, nice and warm and inviting. And yeah. So that was, like, the last few weeks of pregnancy, pretty uneventful. And then I hit forty weeks, and I was like, okay. Still pregnant. Alright. And I think all of mine have been born just after forty weeks, like, forty and two or forty and three, something like that. So I kind of knew, like, it's probably coming soon. And, yeah, I woke up one morning, and my son was going to forest school. And so I took him and dropped him off, and I was, like, super annoyed because he didn't wanna stay, and I was like, ugh. And so I walk him up this, like, big hill where there's, like, this little fire pit, and he wanted me to stay with him for a while. So I did, and I had my daughter with me too. And, they do this little sit spot meditation thing, so I stayed with him for that. And so I'm, like, climbing on these rocks, and I'm like, man, I am, like, kinda tired today and just, like, not feeling this. And, eventually, we separated, and he was fine. And I took my daughter home, and I just felt weird. You know? I just felt like I'm not really here, but I, like, woke up still pregnant. Like, I don't know what's going on. And so I was like, I should probably just eat something. I just have this feeling that I should eat. And so and I wasn't necessarily hungry, but I made something to eat for my daughter and I, and we took it outside and sat, like, in our backyard. And then Does your husband
Speaker 4
sorry. Does your husband work outside of the home?
Speaker 5
No. He works from home.
Speaker 4
Okay.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So That's nice. He's working doing his thing. And, my daughter and I are just hanging out, and I'm like, you know, I'm kind of feeling, like, some sensations here and there. I'm gonna let her watch some TV, and I'm gonna just lay down and, like, chill. And so we did that, and I started to just really like, it was such a nice day out, and I just laid under this tree for, like, the longest time. And it was, like, before I had kind of told my husband, hey. I think things might be happening, and I was just, like, totally on my own, kind of in my own little world. And but I felt like, okay. It's getting a little more regular, like, something's happening. And it was kind of that, like, sweet feeling of the beginning of labor where it's like, oh, I'm so thrilled that I get to do this again, and this is so easy. And I'm just like, oh, it feels so good, and I'm just, like, totally in it in in that, like, I can feel the sun and, like, there's a nice breeze, and I just felt really good. And so then, eventually, I had to get up to go to the bathroom or something. And I went in, and I was like, oh, I have some bloody show. Okay. Like, it's probably you know, let my husband know. And then I just had this like, I was I had this feeling, and at this time, it's, like, one PM. Right? It's, like, one in the afternoon. And I I had this, like, flash of insight. I was like, the baby's gonna be here at five. Woah. And I was like I was like, woah. That's, like, in four hours.
Speaker 4
Oh my god.
Speaker 5
And so I I was like, okay. I was kind of trying to calculate it in my head because my husband had to leave to go pick up our son. And I was like, he should probably just go get him now because I don't know how I'll be feeling in a couple of hours from now. So I talked to him, and he's like, yeah. I'll go
Speaker 4
You're gonna be postpartum in a couple hours. Exactly.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So I talked to my husband, and he's like, alright. Yeah. Let me finish up this work, and then I'll go. He's like, it seem you know, it seems like not urgent. And Did
Speaker 4
you tell him the five o'clock deadline?
Speaker 5
I didn't. I didn't tell him that. I'm like, yeah. It doesn't feel urgent right now. Yeah. So, anyways, I just went to lay back down, and I was, like, kind of you know, I was floating away anyway. So I was just like, okay. Yeah. It's everything seems fine. And so then he left at, like, two or two thirty. And by that time, I'm like, okay.
Speaker 4
Like, I'm
Speaker 5
I'm in it. Like, it's good, but I'm, like, getting a it's getting a little more, you know, intense. And I was I was alone then with my daughter who's three, and, like, she she knew what was going on, and we were fine. But it was like he was gone for, like, forty five minutes probably to, like, go there, pick up my son, and bring him home. And, then he's on his way so he's on his way home, and I'm like, I need lemonade. So he had to stop and get lemonade. I and and I was like, hurry. Because at that point, it was getting a little more intense. So it's like three PM now.
Speaker 4
It's like, hurry to get this frivolous thing that I definitely need, but hurry because your baby's coming.
Speaker 5
Yeah. That's exactly what it was like. That's amazing. So he did get the lemonade. My daughter started kind of losing it on me.
Speaker 4
Oh, no.
Speaker 5
Well, I mean, we were there together, and, like, it was getting to the point where I wasn't really talking during Yeah. The sensations, and I was kinda starting the whole, like, lean forward or being on all fours sort of situation. And I was inside with her. She needed something. Like, she needed me to help her with the potty or go to the bathroom or something, and I couldn't do it. Like, I physically couldn't do it in that moment, so she started crying. And then I'm like, okay. We're just gonna be here. We're like, I'm doing this. You're crying. My husband Thomas will be here soon. Like, it's all good. So my husband came home. We all had some lemonade, and that seemed to to kind of smooth things over. And then I sort of retreated. Well, I had the thought. I was like, oh, it was so nice to lay outside. And I already had, like, had this whole setup outside. Like, I had a blanket and, like, all these pillows, and I was like, I'm gonna go back out there. And then I, like, took a couple steps, and I was, like, kind of, you know, had another big sensation, and I just hit the floor instead. And I was, like, probably not gonna make it out there again.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'll come out with the baby in a couple days. Yeah.
Speaker 5
Exactly. So at that point, I retreated and went to my bedroom, and I was like, this is where I'm gonna be. And, yeah. So then my husband was kind of getting the the kids settled. And at that point, I was like, okay. I'm staying with it, but, like, this just got really intense. And it was, like, three thirty. And, so then my husband is coming back in with me, and he's kind of trying to navigate taking care of the kids and being with me. And he was like, I think we should call your mom to come be with the older two. And I was like, great. I'm totally down with that. It was not something we had, like, discussed before or anything. But I was like, yeah. That sounds like totally reasonable thing to do. And we had now I'm remembering we had just gone the day before with my mom to, like, a big pumpkin patch, and so my kids had all these pumpkins. And so my mom was like, oh, cool. I'll bring over paint, and, like, we can carve and paint the pumpkins. And I was like, perfect. So my mom came over, and that was a big relief because then Thomas was able to just stay with me.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 5
And that was something that was a little bit different about this birth compared to my second birth. So when I birthed my daughter, I really preferred mostly to be alone. Like, I was just kind of doing my own thing, and I was okay with my husband being a little more in the background or separate from me. And with this birth, at least the last hour or so, I really wanted him close by, and we couldn't just obviously, we would have been more challenging to just have my kids being kind of wherever in the house. So that was really nice. We had my mom there. We both felt, like, really settled in our bedroom. And, my husband started filling the tub up, and he was, like, just getting some towels and stuff like that and being, you know, supporting me. And I was kind of on the bed on our bed, and then sometimes I would walk to the bathroom and then I would come back. I did a lot of a lot of moving around, a lot of walking or bending forward, and taking it like, having the con having the sensations, like, come over me while standing, but, like, leaning forward. I don't know. That seemed to really work for me this time. And I hit, like, a point where I was like, okay. I'm with it, but, like, I don't wanna do this anymore. You know? I'm like
Speaker 4
I'd like to not be.
Speaker 5
Like, this is really intense, and I knew it was gonna be this intense. And, like, now I'm ready for the baby to come out. Yeah. And, like, I could feel him moving, and, it just felt like something clicked or, like, not literally clicked, but, like, it just felt like he moved, and then it was like, okay. He's gonna come out now. And so my husband's like, do you wanna get in the tub? It's ready. And I could see it. I was, like, standing in the doorway facing our bathtub, which is like a corner tub, and it's huge, and it's, like, lovely. And I was like, I can't even walk, like, three steps to get there, let alone lift my leg up.
Speaker 4
Miles away.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Like, lift my leg up over the edge of the tub. Like, this is a hundred percent not happening. So I just went and laid back down and And stared at it. Yeah. And I was just like, no. Like, I'm not getting in there. So I don't know. It was it was it was interesting. That was my first birth not in water, and it was, like, totally fine. But it took my husband by surprise, and he was like that was sort of his he was like, oh, so you're not gonna do that, but the bed was also not in any condition to have my waters, like, release all over it and all of that. So we got some sheets and stuff. And he on one of my trips to the bathroom, he just, like, put down as much extra things as we had, basically. Like, we had a mattress protector on. Yeah. It's like we had the mattress protector on, but, like, not, you know, not for, like, full waters releasing on them. Anyways, that is what happened. So I lay back on the bed, and I'm I kind of ended up laying on my on my right side, but, like, propped up. So and then I was I was feeling like, okay. I'm starting to push. Like, this is moving in the right direction.
Speaker 4
But are you, like, chill? Like
Speaker 5
yeah. I put I was pretty chill. Like, chill as you would perceive externally. I mean, internally, I feel like I was also pretty chill. I I or I was pretty, like like, okay. Like, this is what's happening. I've got it. I wasn't I wasn't freaking out at any moment, or I wasn't, like, thinking I couldn't do it or, I just had these moments of, like, being like, woah. This is, like, a lot, and, like, I'm glad it's gonna be over soon.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I would say that's pretty chill. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.
Speaker 5
But, you know, it's like I could feel that the baby was gonna come out, and and I didn't realize how quickly that would happen.
Speaker 4
Wow.
Speaker 5
Right? But I knew it was it like, I knew when I felt that rotation or whatever he was doing, I was like, okay. Like, he is in a basically, like, a straight shot out.
Speaker 4
How would you describe at this point the sensations? Like, what level of pain or intensity how would you describe it?
Speaker 5
How would I describe it? I mean, that's such an interesting question because it's like it's it's so you like, for me at least, birthing sensations or contractions are, like, so unique in how they feel compared to just, like, something you feel outside of that space. Right? So I would say, like, they were all consuming and but I I didn't feel like, oh, they're ripping my body apart or I just felt like it was a lot of of power moving through my body. And, I did need reminders to sort of well, no. I won't even say that Because what I was doing to cope with it or sort of move through it and with it was I was grabbing my husband's hand and sort of asking him to pull against me so I had some sort of, like, way to counter what I felt was going down. Like, I felt, like, all this, like, downward pushing energy, and I wanted something to sort of feel like I could anchor myself against it. And so that's that's sort of how I got through the last twenty minutes or so. Yeah. So once the for me, once the pushing phase happens, like, I feel a lot of relief generally because I feel like there's something happening. Like, there I mean, there's something happening the whole time, but, like, once I actually feel the descent and start to feel like, okay. I know the baby is likely gonna come out soon. That provides me with, like, a little second wind or, you know, some some energy to get through that particular phase. I just like it more, I think, too. I just like it more than, like, the kind of
Speaker 4
Dealing.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Like, you're just trying to, like, okay. I'm I'm gonna get through this next one, and then, like, there's gonna be another one. The pushing feels like a lot more intentional in some ways. So I'm on my side. My husband's got my hand, and I'm sort of giving myself counterpressure at this point, just intuitively, not for any particular reason, actually, just because that's what I was doing. And I really wanted a hot washcloth, and I also
Speaker 4
didn't you're gonna say? I thought you were gonna say.
Speaker 5
What what did you think I was gonna say?
Speaker 4
Say you really wanted a hot dog.
Speaker 5
I mean, that would be really funny. No. I did not want a hot dog.
Speaker 4
Like heard you finish it saying hotdog. Okay. Sorry. Hotdog.
Speaker 5
No. I actually didn't really eat at all during this labor, but it was only, like, three hours. So what can you say? Yeah. Of course. Real.
Speaker 4
Is it total three hours? That's what that was?
Speaker 5
No. I mean, I would say it started at, like, noon, and he was born at five zero nine. So but, like, the only intense part was, like, from three to five.
Speaker 4
Wow. Okay. So you say I need a hot dog?
Speaker 5
I need a hot dog. I was like, I really want a hot washcloth, but, like, you cannot leave me. And so I asked him to text my mom.
Speaker 4
That's funny.
Speaker 5
So he's like and my mom is, like, is she's really cool, and she, like, totally respect my boundaries. And we had closed the door, so there's, like, no way she was coming in without, like, without us asking. So he text my mom. I'm like, just have her bring it. And I had, like, one more sensation, and I was like, oh, you know, I could feel the ring of fire, so I knew, like, baby's coming out basically now. So, yeah, I remember feeling like, okay. I'm just gonna, like, try to breathe into this a little bit, and I was giving myself the counter pressure. And then by the time my mom walked, like, my mom walked in the door with the hot washcloth and his head was born at the same time, basically. Aw. Which was really sweet. Like, she got to see it, and, that was actually really a sweet part of the birth because my, of course, behind her came my two other kids. And my daughter and my son saw that the head was out, and, my son just kind of looked and was kind of hanging in the background. My daughter, she's, like, a little more expressive, and she she goes, oh my god. The head's gonna pop right out at me. And then she, like, ran out of the room, and that's just, like, her her personality. She's kind of a firecracker. But so that was really like, I was almost laughing at that point because she had said that, and then, of course, his body just, like, slid right out onto the bed after that.
Speaker 4
Aw. So your mom and your son stayed for that?
Speaker 5
Yeah. So and and my daughter came right back in and, was really excited about the whole process. So then, yeah, he was out, and he just kind of slid right out onto the bed. And, I picked him up. And he had kind of cried even before I picked him up, so I was had, like I wasn't really concerned about his state or how he was doing. And, yeah, I just held him and stayed in bed for a while. And he latched right away from what I recall. And then it was my husband who was like, you should probably get the placenta out. And I was like, oh, yeah. That's a good good plan. But, yeah, I had started to have some after pains, and I was like, yeah. I think the placenta is ready to come out. So get the we got the bull, and, this was, like, maybe fifteen, twenty minutes after he was born. We're just chilling in bed, and I wanted to get up sort of more upright to to take care of the placenta, and it took me, like, a couple different tries. So, I, like, tried to sit on the edge of the bed, and that wasn't really working. And he had a long enough cord, so that wasn't really an issue. But I was just having trouble getting in the right position. So we tried a couple different or I tried a couple different things, and then it was again, my husband was like, you did it like this last time. And I the way I did it last time was, like, I kind of, kneeled next to the bed, one knee down, one foot up, and then had the bowl right underneath me, and then it came, like, came out really easily. So that felt really good. And while I was doing the placenta or taking care of that, my husband kind of got all the wet sheets off the bed and changed the bed for us. And I cleaned up a little bit, and, yeah, then we got back into bed together. And my mom got us some like, we had just made a big, like, dinner the night before so she could she reheated some food for me, which was really nice, and she made cake. Mhmm. And my kids got to come meet the baby or hang out, like, a little bit more. And, yeah, it was, like, all before bedtime.
Speaker 4
We got all the day's work.
Speaker 5
Yeah. He
Speaker 4
was born just past five.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So he was born at five zero nine. And
Speaker 4
What a trip.
Speaker 5
Yeah. It was just so sweet. Like
Speaker 4
Yeah. You know? Kids around your mom in the kitchen baking the cake.
Speaker 5
Yeah. It was really sweet. And it was, like, such a beautiful day outside. And, like, all my kids have been born on, like, really nice sunny days, which is, yeah, just something that I always recall. But, yeah, it was just a sweet birth, like, so simple and intense at times, of course. Like, if you have a two hour basically progress. Birth, like, it's a lot for your body to move through in in that amount of time. But I will say he was also smaller than my last baby, so it did feel easier in some ways. Like, I I pushed a little bit like, the pushing phase with my second birth was longer, but my daughter was, like, a pound bigger than this baby.
Speaker 4
So tell me about postpartum and what what is that like for you as a mother of three, and how do you how do you as a mother of three and a entrepreneur and, you know, all of this stuff, manage the, maybe manage is the wrong word, like, cultivate the principles of postpartum that
Speaker 5
we know, you
Speaker 4
know, to do and yeah. What does that look like?
Speaker 5
Yeah. Well, of course, like, my husband took time off work, which is really helpful. And then, I had both my parents here helping with the older kids, so helping with the older two, because we're homeschooling primarily, so they're not in school or anything. So they would they had a lot of, like, fun things planned for them to do, so so they were out of the house a lot in those first weeks. And then I had, also had a older like, a friend that I had known in this area where I just returned to because I I don't have a big community where I live since I just moved, but I grew up here. So I have some friends that have are sort of, like, from a different time of my life, we could say. But I had one good friend who was who was, able to come, like, once a week, help out, like, do kind of postpartum doula type of care. And then I also hired a postpartum doula who did, like, body work and food prep, and we had a meal train. And, yeah, I mean, I think being, like, my third time to move through it, I have a lot of the tools just already with me. So whether that's, like, having my steam chair for vaginal steaming or I do moxibustion. So I have all those things already just around the house. So it's just a matter of, like, getting them in the same place and, like, getting my little my little setup. And, yeah, just making it a priority, I think. That's the hardest part I find working with women and just what I've seen is, like, you can always figure the logistics out. It's just that you have to say, like, this time is important, and this is what I'm gonna do about it, essentially. And then you just do it. Right? And so I've actually even returned to work or this is, like, the earliest of any postpartum time that I've returned to working, but it's felt pretty easeful overall. And I think, part of that is just because I took those first six weeks, like, really super chill resting, you know, just being with my baby, being at home. And then, it does get easier than, like, it I do think it like, experience matters. And, right, you move through this a couple of times. Like, you get the flow of of of how postpartum is, and that doesn't mean there can't be challenges. I didn't really have anything come major come up during this postpartum time either.
Speaker 4
Even just, like, the the more subtle layers of confidence, and you're less likely to trip about small things or stress. Like, this the the kind of invisible
Speaker 5
Yeah. Of it. It is. It's like the internal piece because it's you just have more experience with postpartum. You have more experience with newborn infant care or mothering. So, yeah, it was kinda it just kind of I feel like it does get easier in in some ways. Of course, it gets more complex as you have more relationships between children and integrating all of all of those things. But, yeah, it was overall, like, it's just a big priority for me to take the that initial resting period, and I kind of let people know about that. I mean, for my husband, he totally is on board. He understands why it's important, and then we just organize our lives around that.
Speaker 4
K.
Speaker 5
Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, you're the heartbeat of your entire household.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Right?
Speaker 4
So how does this all tie in to your incredible program and offering to the world, the Blood Mystery School?
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah. So Nancy and I have come together to create the Blood Mystery School, and I feel like it, you know, it's the full spectrum of what I kind of the trajectory I went through to arrive at the choice of free birth. Right? It's like and it wasn't even it's like just I mean, of course, it's an active choice, and it's just what makes the most sense given the context of the way I live my life and the way that I the relationship that I have cultivated with my body over time. Right? So I think, like, one of my wishes and desires for the program and for sharing this information is that I think if women do have the opportunity to start to heal some of these, womb, we could say, health issues or, being disconnected just from womanhood in general. If you start to heal this prior to your conception time, then I do think you have a more easeful transition into motherhood. And you're already, like, you're already like I had mentioned before, you're sort of already getting yourself out of that medical model matrix. So, I know, Emilee, you work with a lot of women who are navigating that process. Right? Navigating that process of realizing that obstetrical care or, standardized prenatal care is, like, not what a lot of women want or is not what actually facilitates a normal pregnancy at all. So if you're already outside of that system, then it's like it just makes sense. It just like, free birth just makes sense because you already trust the process of what your body is doing.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's like the word that I feel like encompasses this as embodiment. Like, when you are Yeah. Whole and embodied, you are you are generating your own sense of safety and power and security and approval. You know, all of this, like, is required for real wholeness. And when you are whole, you are not at risk for outsourcing in the same way that we're, you know, groomed to.
Speaker 5
Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And so it's not really about free birth. It's like a free life. It's like
Speaker 5
Well, yeah. I mean, it is about free birth, and it's not it's, like, bigger than that too. Right? It's like So
Speaker 4
this what is this school what does this school do for women that want that too?
Speaker 5
I think it's, like, the fundamental education that Nancy and I and other women who have taken the school already kind of wish that we had to start our reproductive life as young girls. Right? It's like, if we could have had this information when you're thirteen, fourteen, and understood how the cycle works, understand, like, the different hormonal rhythms, you just enter into your reproductive life or enter into conscious conception or conscious contraception in a with a much different frame of reference. So, essentially, it's gonna it frees you from the tools of the allopathic model. Right? So, I mean, so countless women are still using hormonal birth control or opting for pain medication or surgeries. And there we're here to say, like, there is a different way, and you can actually opt to not use those particular models of care.
Speaker 4
And and be healthier for it.
Speaker 5
Obviously. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I
Speaker 4
don't know if that's obvious. Like, I feel like I'll I don't know that that is you know, that that might be, like, a stretch to believe, you know, that you are having such debilitating I mean, I know it's true, but, like, that you were having debilitating cycles, and then you cleaned up your life, figured yourself out, did healing, and now, you know, have have totally functional cycles. Like, yeah, women just really need to hear the possibility of what happens. Like you said, when you put those when you put those models down and get into what else is out there and what's way older and more wise and and, you know, in our in our ancestry way before allopathy. That really is a road map to health and women's health and sovereignty. Right? Like, altogether, it's just really it's exciting. It's exciting to see what the women have done with this program beyond, you know, getting this because getting the fundamentals from you both because you add the spiritual side to it. You add a very scientific approach. There's there's all of this, you know, alchemizing in this program. And the majority of women that are taking it, it seems like, already work in women's work. And so they're using this education to fill in a lot of the gaps that other programs offer.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So a lot of the women who have come through the program, we had a great first round, and, like, just so many powerful women in the container with us. And, yeah, for a variety like, they are in in in there with us for a variety of reasons. Some are birth workers or radical birthkeepers who are sort of adding additional support to women that they work with throughout their reproductive life. And then, of course, there are women who are on their own personal healing journey around, like, really wanting fertility support or to heal endometriosis or PCOS and, want to attend to that in a more holistic way. And then, yeah, we have also women who are approaching it more from maybe they have some of the basics like what you were talking to. Like, they have some of the basics there, but they wanna take their teaching or, facilitation practice sort of to that next level. And so that would be a per that, like, this program would be, like, a perfect fit for them as well because we are providing you with a lot of the foundational stuff. And then I get into, like, all the details around hormones, healing very specific or challenging period issues, and even getting into, like, fertility outside of the model of assisted reproductive technology or, you know, something like that, which is also like a whole other realm, but it's it's one that's, like, becoming more and more of an issue. And I feel like women do want alternatives to, like, yeah, the model of care there is just really extreme.
Speaker 4
It's so extreme and not, like, accurate. You know? Like, how good
Speaker 5
Yeah. It just, like well, yeah. There's, like, that whole thing, like, just getting the infertility label right away. Right? And then immediately, you go to hormone treatment to sort of manipulate the body to respond in a particular way. It's just, like, so against our physiology, as to what we're actually capable of. And given the right context, like, so much healing is possible. And even the most challenging fertility issues, like, I've seen resolve. So, yeah, I hope that women who are listening will really understand that with some of this foundational knowledge, like, with this level of understanding around the hormonal side while also addressing the spiritual and energetic pieces that not only can you have so much healing potential for yourself, but you'll be able to offer so much to your community.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's so needed. I'll never forget a long time ago being in in my LA social group, and I was sitting around. And I think I had left LA and then had come back and was now pregnant. That's what it was. And I was sitting with a bunch of women who didn't have children yet, and I was telling them how I used FAM to Mhmm. Prevent pregnancy for for how for many, many years and then how I used it to create pregnancy. And all of them were smart, you know, smart women, and none of them had ever heard anything about it. None of them had ever heard about some real you know, what now to us is, like, very, very basic understandings of our body. And I'll never forget it because it was a long time ago. And, yeah, I guess I was newly pregnant, so it was, like, you know, almost six years ago. And being so shocked at how at at what a lack of basic knowledge of our body and the lie that our uterus is so mysterious and unpredictable that we should be afraid of it. Mhmm. Right? Like, as if pregnancy can happen at any time, as if, you know, PCOS is out of nowhere, as if the only answer to, you know, endo is to get rid of your uterus. Like, these extreme, you know, totally ignorant and inaccurate, belief structures are what, are what many, many, many wonderful, brilliant women are still swimming in, and they don't have, not just not just the foundational knowledge. But but what I'm speaking to is the women listening is, like, you're you're that bridge. Like, you learn this stuff whether it's from this program or somewhere else. Learn that stuff if you're drawn to it so that you're the one sitting in those groups going, oh, yeah. No. This is, like, how you do it. And you change those women's lives. And then that's how this happens, and that's the ripple effect, so that we can get off pharmaceuticals and and our whole you know, just like the whole addiction to the the allopathic models out of control.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah. It is, like, an important thing to know, like, that some of these things, they aren't hard to learn. Right? It's not that it's like it doesn't it's it's not super complex, but you do have to, you know, put the time in to do it. And it's ideal to do it in the company of other women who have experience doing it because then it makes it fun and easy. And, yeah,
Speaker 4
that's definitely bit of a of a program is you two have done all of the work to consolidate it into a program that women get to just participate in and not that it's not work to learn, but, I mean, that's that's what's so exciting about this
Speaker 5
is you
Speaker 4
created the the body, you know, to Yeah.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So it's not like obviously, you can learn lots of things just by reading books and doing all kinds of other self discovery. But what we've created, I feel like, is really unique in in just the way that we've brought things together and, not really not left anything out as far as, like, spiritual and energetic and physical and embodiment. And, also, like, a really great part of the experience that I think Nancy and I really kind of felt through the program was just the relationships that the women create with each other and, like, how how important that is. As you know, like, when we talk about, circle and or coming and being in live events together like the festival and such, it's the relationships that you build with other women that sort of start to transform your life. And yeah, I mean, that is that's also, like, a really essential part of the program.
Speaker 4
Mhmm. Beautiful. Well, anything else you wanna share before we wrap?
Speaker 5
I would just say that for, yeah, for my birth and pregnancy experiences, it's been such a joy to experience a part of my body and system that once felt like so much pain and heaviness. And now to see how that's been alchemized and transformed into something that just brings my life, like, so much ease and grace, And then, obviously, my children, like, were born from that as well. And that definitely, like, gives me a lot of strength, and I just, like, hold on to that possibility and wanna provide that hope for other women as well.
Speaker 4
Mhmm. Yeah. Beautifully said. Alright. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 5
Thanks, Emilee.
Speaker 3
And that's it for today, my sisters. Check out everything we do, including one on one and group coaching. Learn about our private membership, in person retreats, and more on free birth society dot com. Our online courses are on free birth society courses dot com, including our flagship course, the complete guide to free birth. Don't miss the Radical Birthkeeper School if you're ready to become the authentic midwife that women are searching for. Together we rise, and the revolution starts inside each of us. I'll leave you with our Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red
Speaker 2
I honour you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our power by design. I will not allow the separation of our young to be forced upon me. My sisters will no longer birth in captivity. The picket line redefined from burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed, drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all your poison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star. Wild woman, she still lives inside. Wild woman, from you, I will not hide.
