Speaker 0
Into the wild, I'm going into the wild, I am. It's been a wild freedom child, since I left my roots back home. Into the wild I'm good. Into the wild I am. It's been a while, freedom child, since I left my roots back home.
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Free Birth Society podcast. This is a radical space for women who are ready to celebrate their autonomous choices in birth, motherhood, and beyond. Together, we'll learn about wild birth through personal narrative, we'll explore the politics of birth, and we'll analyze everything that relates to our lives as women from a feminist perspective. Here's your host, Emilee Saldaya.
Speaker 0
It's been a wild freedom change since I've left my rules back home.
Speaker 2
Hello, women. Marion joins me on the show today to share her sweet undisturbed birthing stories of her three children. Each of her stories are incredibly unique and a beautiful example of where intuition can guide a woman when she refuses to be influenced by the industrial obstetrical complex. Marian birthed her first baby who was transverse until the very end completely outside of the system in a cabin from the eighteen hundreds in the woods with an unexpected and beautifully sweet new friend supporting her. Marian's second birth took place in a teepee outside of the school bus she was living in with women from her community singing to her from outside in the rain. Her most recent birth is a powerful story of passionate love and how being with a partner that you are in true genuine union with can deeply change the experience of birth. Marian's a trailblazer of her own life, following her own compass in every step of the way. From skipping birth certificates for her babies, to taking one year to name her first two children and claiming radical responsibility in all circumstances of her life. It was really a joy to hear her perspective on the world through her birth stories. Before we dive into her story, I wanna share with you some really big exciting news that we have going on over here at Free Birth Society. You may have already heard that the Radical Birthkeeper School is going to be opening its doors for enrollment in just a few weeks on March eleventh. After running this program seven times since twenty twenty, we have really evolved it into what we think is now the perfect expression of what this program is really meant to be. So RBK twenty twenty four is going to be completely different than ever before. We're making the program way more digestible, significantly easier to follow and absorb the material and more financially accessible than it's ever been. We are only running the program one time in twenty twenty four and the classes begin on April fifteenth. So make sure you sign up on the wait list below and be one of the first to enroll when we open doors. And if you're wondering, well, what if I want a longer, in-depth, high touch mentorship program for learning real midwifery? Then don't worry, women. We've got you. Next week, we're gonna be dropping all of the details about our brand new, one of a kind year long midwifery school. It's called the Matrebirth Midwifery Institute. So stay tuned. You're not going to want to miss this. It's a big, big year, and I want you with us. Check out the links in the show notes to get on the wait list for both of these groundbreaking programs in twenty twenty four, and enjoy this episode with Marian.
Speaker 3
We're on, baby.
Speaker 4
We're on.
Speaker 3
Long overdue. I'm so excited to hear as much as we can in our little session today. I was saying to you before we were recording that I first, you first came into my consciousness in a free birth related way, and I've been having this delightful experience in over the last couple of years where women doing cool stuff in their own fields of expertise or whatever are coming into my awareness through my friends or whatever, or their products, you know, whatever it is, and then I'm discovering that they're free birthers.
Speaker 4
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
That's so fun. I love that so
Speaker 4
much. So Me too.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So first shout out to Ariel who sent me a little goddess ghee care package of your Mhmm. Yummy products, which are gonna be getting slung at MRS this summer. I'm so excited. Yeah. Yeah. Just welcome.
Speaker 4
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here. And, yeah, it's fun. It was fun to make that connection and know that you had already had the ghee and, like, we have the free birth. Oh, I had the ghee.
Speaker 3
I had the ghee. Yeah. Alright. So who are you? Who are you, lady? You've got three rebirthing babies. We've got a lot of ground to cover today. So Mhmm. Take us where you wanna where you wanna start.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Well, my name's Marian, and I, where should I just go into it?
Speaker 5
Like Yeah.
Speaker 3
I mean, like, we were saying that that you have a twelve year old, and so you're one of our OG free birthers, right, that are that'll be on the podcast because many women, are getting turned on to free birth through this podcast. But you, I would say, are are more old school because you, you know, called it in and found out about it, and we're in the, what did you say, the underground Facebook group Yeah. Twelve, thirteen years ago.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
So how let's start there. Like, because you have a twelve year old child, so so who are you before that first pregnancy? And Yeah. How does unassisted childbirth, as it was called then, even, like, come into your consciousness?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So, yeah, twelve years ago is when I became pregnant. My son's eleven, and he, I, at that time, didn't know anyone who had even had a home birth, much less a free birth. And I was not in that culture at all or have that awareness, but I had one like, I had seen a YouTube video of a home birth. That was pretty much all I knew, and hadn't really thought much about it at all before I was pregnant. But I was definitely on, like, a, I guess, I would say, like, rebel pass in a way of notice seeing in those years prior. Like, I mean, I was twenty eight, but I was like, something's not right. Like, something's really fucked with our culture and this whole thing. And I, so I was already just asking a lot of questions. I'm a very curious person anyway. And then right after I was we found out I was pregnant, I was on this raw food email list, and this couple sent this email that said they had just had an unassisted birth.
Speaker 3
Cute.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I it wasn't a birth thing or anything. It just was, like, this beautiful synchronicity, and I was just looking at, yeah, like food stuff. And then, they shared about their unassisted birth and that it just, like, blasted me open into, oh, this is a possibility because I already knew from, you know, day one of finding out I was pregnant that I wanted to have a home birth. I knew, like, I was not gonna go to the hospital. And so so then I found out about unassisted birth. And so I just started searching on Facebook, and I was scared to join like, to like the pages because it anything public that would be shared on the news feed because I didn't want anyone that I knew to see that I was even looking into that because it was so underground at that point. There like, free birth wasn't even a really a word yet. And it was, all of like, it was very secretive. Like, I wasn't telling anybody, and I was just like, okay. Let me look into this. And I I think I read, a couple books. I ordered a couple books, and I got an I ended up getting
Speaker 3
Went to an anonymous address?
Speaker 4
Yeah. I did. And then I got, like, into, these different secret groups, and then I would get, like, invites into because then I I start you start kind of in the public groups, and then, you know, somebody sends you an invite and you get a little deeper and deeper into, like, the more OG, I guess, free birthers and not so much just newbies questions. But what was cool was that because I didn't have anywhere to look on the Internet really or support around me, I ended up in a few groups where there was these rebirthing mamas who had done it several times, and there was also even a couple midwives who were in support of for free birth, like, in the groups. And so, I got to just go on there and ask questions all the time. And I pretty much, like, every day of my pregnancy was studying birth and learning about this stuff and learning from other moms who had done it before. And, yeah, there weren't I don't remember I was a rare person who was, like it was my first time being pregnant and studying that. Like, most of the moms that had come into it came into it because they had bad experiences at first, and then they found that path because of their bad experiences. And so I just remember telling myself a lot. Like, I just have to tap into the wisdom of all these mothers that have come before me and just know that, like, even though this is my first time and, that I have that, like, a whole lineage of women that have done this before me.
Speaker 3
And that you don't need to first be abused
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
To just have a normal birth.
Speaker 4
Right. Yeah. I was like, I don't have to go through that experience. I've and so I was hearing their story. Like, they would share a lot of what what they went through before, and, that was really helpful and really fueled me to be able to make a lot of decisions that supported me. And throughout that whole pregnancy, I never went to a prenatal. I never got any testing or ultrasound. I just, like, did my own, like, ate well and took care of my body. And I I researched all the different testing, but I just ultimately was like, I'm not gonna do anything unless I feel like something's off. You know? Like, if something comes up and I feel like it needs to be looked at, then, sure, I'll open myself up to that, but I'm not gonna just, like, willingly go and get poked and prodded and tested and whatever and bring up, like, more I just didn't I had no desire to do that. So, yeah, it was also, the pregnancy journey was just, like, kind of it was pretty isolating because I was being secretive about my path, and I didn't have, like, in person support. But I was so grateful for the women online that I found.
Speaker 3
You you sound like, in a way, you're just describing, like, a life, a chapter of your life that isn't completely overrun by fear.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Right? Like Totally. It sounds like you were tuning in. You were doing what you wanted. You had a sense of self trust. You had a sense of direction and what you wanted. And, you know, that's that's all very simple except for the fact that the vast majority of of women aren't yet tuned into how to have a pregnancy not run by fear. You know what I'm you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 4
Yeah. You know what's interesting? Because I think I actually had fear, but the fear was of the abuse of, like Sure.
Speaker 3
Getting that That's legit. That's legit. That's motivating. Shit. Yeah. Well, thank god you had some awareness of the reality of of what it's like in there.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I had that fear of, like, I don't wanna go through all of that. And then I had
Speaker 3
my heart. It's normal to feel fear and concern around being abused. It's not normal to feel fear around how do I say this? It is normal to go like, you know, you're in the infinite beyond of of pregnancy and dah, dah, dah. But it's not it's not, I would say, like, the design for us to walk through a biological experience like pregnancy motivated by fear.
Speaker 4
Totally. Yeah. Yeah. I was more afraid of, being mishandled by the medical system, which I had had experiences, you know, not pregnant, but just like when I was younger, had experiences where I was like, I don't think I trust these people to actually attend to me and know what I'm going through and what I need. So I had had enough experiences like that that, yeah, I was just like, I'm afraid of that, and I really want to it was also, like, I knew about imprinting. I learned that at some point along the way, and I also was just like, I really want my child to have a, like, beautiful imprint at birth and come in, and we can bond and not help all of this disruption and trauma. Yeah.
Speaker 3
And so what's your environmental surrounding setup? You're being secretive, but, like, is your partner all down? What's your family dynamic, social dynamic
Speaker 4
Yeah. Up together? Yeah. I didn't really tell that many people that, like, they knew I was having a home birth. I would just say I'm having a home birth, but I wouldn't, like, mention anything else. And then, my partner at the time, he was he had actually had the experience of being at a home birth with a midwife before with a former partner, and so that was helpful. He was a little skeptical, like, not sure you know, not totally on board with the free birth thing, but I just explained what I wanted, and, he supported. And, my mom knew what I was planning, and I she definitely questioned me a lot and just, like, she was like, what about a I remember her asking me, like, what about an episiotomy? I was like Yeah.
Speaker 3
Exactly, mom. What about it?
Speaker 4
She was just pretty clueless about the whole thing, and I Yeah. I just educated her on what I knew, and she trusted me. And, my dad, they're they're not together, and I remember him. He's kinda tuned out, and so he called me, like, around my due time, and he said, so, you're gonna have, like, a lady that comes. Right? Like, what do they call them? Midwife? And I said, no. It's just gonna be us. And because I was so close at that point, and he he said, oh, I'm not gonna tell my sister or his partner that that, like, he was like, I have to keep this quiet because it's gonna stir up so much drama, and so he knew. So I was thankful for that that he was willing to just, like, ignore that and turn the other way. And, but, yeah, I really didn't have other than the online people that I found, I didn't have anyone that I knew that I was talking to that, like, had really any awareness that it was even a valid option.
Speaker 3
Wow. It's so wild. Wow. So much has changed.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3
So tell us your birth story.
Speaker 5
Yeah. So,
Speaker 4
let's see. I with so his name is Banyan, my first. And, with him, I went to forty two weeks. So I care so that was, like, a whole navigation too, like, you know, because I did I made the mistake of telling people, like, my due date. Yeah. And, I mean, I think I told them the due month or I said mid December, but it was not that. And so people were asking, and I was having to shoo them off. And, yeah, so I went into labor, forty two weeks, and, he was transverse, like and I knew that. So he his head was, like I can't remember which side. Like, I could feel him kicking on one side, his feet, and then his head on the other side. He was really cradled in my belly. And I had never been pregnant before, so I didn't know actually what a gift that was because there was no pressure on my service at all. I later found that out with my other
Speaker 3
person. Lemonade. Yeah. That's funny.
Speaker 4
I was like, I had no idea. So I just thought, okay. He's laying sideways, but I really because I had the support of these women online and stuff and learning, I knew that, you know, the baby's gonna come out and, I guess, I'll get worried if a hand comes out first. But, like, right now, there's no reason to worry because I knew that and I have learned that babies will even shift, like, during labor and in those contractions. So I, so, yeah, he, I I'm gonna try to tell the short version and just, like, the snippets because there's two more stories. But, I was in like, the setting was I was in this very old log cabin. It was built in eighteen ninety seven. And, yeah, and I did have a birthing pool in the living room because, honestly, at that time, like, I'd only seen home births with water births, so I didn't even question it. Like, I was just like, oh, that's what you do. You get a pool and you set it up and it's this whole production in your living room, which my second my second and third, I didn't water birth. But, but I did with him. And so I had the pool and, like, the candles and the ambiance, and I labored for quite a while by myself. My partner was sleeping. It ended up being a twenty four hour ordeal. And, I the next, you know, morning because it started at midnight. And the next day, I was just, like, in it, and it was just me and my partner, and that was the plan. But we were supposed to go, we were out in the country. So we were supposed to go into Asheville that day and pick up a mattress that we had ordered. And, so I called this woman. I, like, had just moved to the area. I didn't really have any friends, but I called this woman or I had him call this woman that I had met, briefly, and she just happened to be, like, in the first, like, whatever session of training when was still in Nashville. So she was doing her doula training, and she had never attended a birth or anything, but she was, like, in that vibe. And I we called her and I said, can you deliver this mattress to us? And she's like, sure. And, like, I'm in labor. Sure. I'd love to bring you anything you want.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Right? The mattress?
Speaker 4
Or She yeah. So she came and, that was very unplanned. And when she got there, her energy was just so pure and felt so good to me actually to have her in the space. I didn't have, like, a great dynamic with my partner at that time. So Yeah. It was really nice to have her there, and she offered to just, like, leave, and I said, no. I I love it. I love I want you here. So she was there, and so when things got really She
Speaker 3
must have been so stoked.
Speaker 4
Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3
She was like, I'm like, random new free birthing chick wants her to come over. That's like that's so amazing. She will never forget you.
Speaker 4
Totally. Right as she was going into that work. Like, it yeah. Oh, for me. Yeah. So, yeah, it was kind of my partner went to take a nap, and I was, like, with her for a while. My so I have a thing I have, like, a lot of themes that carry over with all three births, and one of them is that my waters don't break until, like, the end. And so I, yeah. I think my water broke around eight PM, and then, that's when things really got, like, heated. And my partner was taking a nap, and her and I were just out in the living room. We had candles going, and she was just singing me these beautiful songs. She just
Speaker 5
like Oh, I know.
Speaker 4
Yeah. She just knows all of these gorgeous hymns and, like, like, medicine songs and Wow. She she's just out there, and she's singing. And we're in the candlelight, and I'm in the water, and I'm just like, okay. This is this is good. And then, I got to a point, I guess, you know, transition. I got to a point where I hit that, like, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I was I was feeling it. And, but I knew I was really clear in my values and the like, what I was choosing, but I I spoke that out loud to her. I looked at her. I remember looking at her and it's like candle lit, and I'm like,
Speaker 5
I don't know if I can
Speaker 4
do this. And she looked back at me, and she's just like, I'll be right back. And she got up, and she went in the other room, and she woke up my partner because she just knew. She was like, oh, yeah. Okay. You're close. And I was so thankful for that that she, like, was able to just hold that sweet presence. And and then, he came out and got in the in the pool with me, and, oh goodness, there were so many little things. Like, I, yeah, I felt down there, and I I thought I was I felt something squishy, and I thought I was feeling the cord. You know? Like, I heard about cord prolapse, and I was like, can you look? And so they shined a she shined a light and saw hair and, you know, my son was just crowning. And, and then, yeah, I just felt so much relief. And then I so there was, like, because it was my fur you know, there was some, like, am I Of course. Gonna be okay. And, and then he came out. I did not push, like, voluntarily because I had learned about the fetal ejection reflux, and I was actually, like, resisting pushing. You know? Like, I could feel him crap, like, the crowning and the and I was just kinda, like, waiting and not trying to make anything happen. And, and he came out, and it was just, like, such a beautiful, beautiful moment. And I'm trying to think oh, so okay. The other theme that runs through all three births is that my once the babies are out, my placentas I don't, like, have contractions or an urge to push or I don't, like, birth my placentas in the in the way that I've heard of. And so after he came out, you know, I went and, like, squatted over a bowl, and I tried to kinda push a little bit, and nothing happened. And I, waited, and, like, hours went by, and I was nursing him. And he was still, you know, attached with the cord, and the placenta was still in me. And, even though I had heard, like, you know, an hour or whatever that you're supposed to get it out, I just I was so in the moment with him and with the baby, like, with the whole thing that I, I wasn't really concerned about it. And then I think we took a nap, and by the time then it had been, like, sixteen hours or something, and I was like, I guess I should probably figure this out. Like, at that, I started getting a little worried. And so I went on the group, and I said, hey. It's been, like, sixteen hours since my birth, and I've tried I was trying, like, smelling pepper like, black pepper to sneeze to to get it out and all these funny things, and I just didn't know. And so I got on a phone call with someone in the group, and she just asked some questions about blood loss and, like, verified that it seemed like I was fine and that it was just kinda, like, lodged, like, hanging out up there. And, and so I asked my partner. He just, like, kinda gently tugged on the cord while I gave a good push, and it came right out. And it was, like, the best feeling ever. So there was a little bit of stress right after that that, I just wasn't expecting that because everything I had seen was just like, yeah. Then you birth your placenta. So, in the next couple births, I did not wait that long and just waited a couple hours and then, and then tugged on the cord myself and pushed it out. So, I'm wondering if there's anything else about
Speaker 3
Okay. Wait. I have a question.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Is this angel woman still in your life?
Speaker 4
Yes. Definitely. So Does
Speaker 3
she go on to become a midwife? Like, what's
Speaker 4
what's She was doing yeah. She was doing doula work for a while, and she attended a lots of births in very, like, hands off, just beautiful, supportive ways. And, now she's actually doing desk doula work. And she's, like, she's working yeah. She's just doing beautiful work in the world. She's working with, moms who have lost children and, creating, like, spaces for them. Yeah. And she also was the one who first told me about ghee. So after yeah. So after This is a very important this
Speaker 3
is a very important woman for you.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. She after I had him and he was, like, a little bit fussy and we were nursing and she was, like, maybe cut out dairy and you can eat ghee and she taught me how to make it, and then I ended up creating a ghee business years later. So yeah. So she catalyzed a lot. But, yeah, she's still in my life and still a really dear friend.
Speaker 3
So then who are you as you have this baby and and learn motherhood and have this birth at your back? What what
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Wants to get said to get us into the next pregnancy? Yeah.
Speaker 4
I feel like having that experience really helped me. It for me, it was, like, such a powerful initiation and the trusting myself as a mom and trusting my intuition and being able to make decisions that maybe would seem, like, radical or whatever to other people, but I feel like it the way that I navigated pregnancy and birth, like, helped me, make decisions from that point forward that were just really clear in my boundaries, really prioritizing, like, myself and family. And, yeah, like, I think it influenced all kinds of ways that I parent after that. And I had I had the other thing that was really cool about my friend, Siobhan, is that because she was in the Matrona class and I didn't really have any friends. Like I said, I just moved to the area. And so she went back to her class and she told them this beautiful free birth story and they all she made a meal train for me and they all signed up on the meal train. Oh my god.
Speaker 3
Women are so amazing.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I had all of these women that were in that field coming and bringing me meals and tending to me and, like, becoming that became my community and that really opened me up to, like, yeah, community and kinda building, like, a village around myself and being allowed to go on to yeah. It was
Speaker 3
You just, like, land into that dam. Yeah. It's so awesome.
Speaker 4
And I was like, bring you bring this
Speaker 3
bring this angel woman to MRF with you.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'll ask. I'll invite her. She and I just randomly met her. We were at a, music festival and I asked to try on her boots because I I liked her boots and I was like, can I try those on? I think I wanna get some of those boots. And that's how we met. It was just like this random Love it. I like your boots and then she
Speaker 3
I mean, boot love boot love is a deep love. That that that actually makes sense to me.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. Good boots matter. Especially if you live in the mountains.
Speaker 3
Exactly. If they're styling and good for your feet, I I love you.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'm yours. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Okay. So then it sounded like maybe you switch partners when we get into the second video.
Speaker 4
So so I had the same partner for my second baby and, was still just trying to make it work with him. And he's he's awesome to co parent with and he supported my birth choices and, like, parenting styles, so that's been great. But, like, as far as a romantic partner, it was just, like, not not a match. So he, yeah. So we we had a rocky relationship, though. And, like, even in my second pregnancy, I was I moved I actually moved out. I left. I moved to a different place on just in friend's land, and I was living this broken down school bus with my one year old banding at the time. And then his dad was, like, living in a, you know, in the area but in a different place, and we were trying to work it out. And, so that pregnancy was pretty pretty rough, because I was just, like, trying to find my ground and figure out if I was gonna be in that relationship and all of that. And I was living in this broken down school bus, and I was due in, like, late June, and it was super hot. And so, I was very clear, like, I don't wanna be I don't wanna have my baby in this bus because I'm in this friend's land. And a friend suggested she's like, well, I have a teepee. I could just put up a teepee for you. And I was like, that sounds great. Let's do that. So, and then that was cool. Like, we didn't have poles for it. So a couple guy like, of my friend's partners went and harvested bamboo. Oh. It was this whole ceremony where people came together and put up this birth tipi for me. And, at that point, I was really clear two things have really come become clear from my first birth, and one was that I I was like, I don't want a water birth. They were trying,
Speaker 5
we'll set up a pool
Speaker 4
or a thing, and I'm like, no. No. No. Like, I'm because what I noticed with my water birth with Damien is that the being in the pool and being set there, like, felt restrictive to me. Like, I wanted to move more. Yeah. I I didn't like it, actually. And so I was like, no. I'm really clear. I wanna be on land and I wanna, like, I don't wanna have the restriction of the pool or the tent. And so that was clear. And then the other thing was that I was like, I really wanna labor alone and, like, spend more time, like, not having other people in my field and really, like, be able to tune in. Because I do feel like with my first, I was kinda looking out a little more than, like, to my friend that was there or to my partner.
Speaker 3
Which I do think kind of is the like, that is the evolution
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
That we see that I think is really sweet and understandable and, like, kinda how it balances. You know?
Speaker 4
Yeah. So yeah. So, some friends set up this teepee, and, you know, again, I was, like, over my forty week time, and I, and it wasn't ready. It was like we barely we didn't have anything in there, and I started, having contractions. And we started preparing the space, me and my partner. And and, again, I said, I
Speaker 3
Were you living in the teepee?
Speaker 4
So no. I was living next. So there was a broken down school that
Speaker 3
we were
Speaker 4
living in, and then the teepee was right next to to the And then And then and then
Speaker 3
and then your partner was living elsewhere, but he He was living elsewhere,
Speaker 4
but he came yeah. He was like we were trying to figure it out. And so he was there, and, and I went into labor. And the next morning after kind of having a night thing, I remember, I was out there and he was, like, trying to move a futon into the teepee to just have some kush and, like, putting, like, a compost toilet in there, like, a bucket basically, in there and getting it comfortable for me. And this huge downpour came, and water was, like, flooding into the teepee because they hadn't built a trench around it. And so I'm, like, mid in between contract, I'm, like, taking the water.
Speaker 3
Damn. Hey. That keeps it real. Doesn't that make you appreciate just, like, how far we've come?
Speaker 4
Yeah. And so him and a friend who showed up dug a trench really quick. They resolved it. It was fine. We got it all cozy. And then that next night, that was also this second labor was a longer labor, which is interesting because everybody told me, like, oh, it'll be faster. And it wasn't, but I think it was because I had one really clear intention which I'll share. But, the second night, I remember I was alone. There was a fire in there, and I was just, like, in my groove. And my partner was actually going and just warning some neighbors, like, hey. She's in labor. Don't call the police if you hear screaming or something. And a friend showed up this guy, and I remember he was he's like, hello, Maryann? I'm like, hey. I'm okay. And it's just I remember he was like very, like, oh my gosh. She's just in there by herself in the teepee in labor. But he was chill and he left and that was fine. So the reason why I think, that labor was longer was because I had a really clear intention that I wanted my son there.
Speaker 3
Mhmm.
Speaker 4
And he was eighteen months at the time, and, I really wanted him to be a part of it because he was still breast feeding, and I just, like, felt like it would be a really good bonding experience for him to, like, be in that energy with his new sibling coming in. And so, so, yeah, I think I kind of jinxed the timing because I made it longer because it ended up working out where when she came, it was, like, perfect timing in the afternoon right after he woke up from his nap and the whole thing. So yeah. So I'll go into that. So I had not invited anybody to that birth, and I had even told my partner, like, I don't even really want you there. I kinda just wanna have a bell and, like, ring it if I need something, and you can, like I'll call you in, like, when the baby's actually coming out kinda thing, and you can bring in Banyan. You y'all can come in. And but but I think because it was going on so long, he just, like, started telling people, and so friends kinda started congregating outside, which was not, like, what I would have asked for at all.
Speaker 5
Oh.
Speaker 4
But it ended up being that it was friends who, like, really could hold the space, and it ended up being really sweet. Actually, there was one friend who I I told him to have her leave because she had, like, recently had a traumatic birth experience, and I could just, like, sense her fear. And I just was like, I don't want that here. But everyone else was just, like, out there. And I wasn't I didn't even, like, it was like they weren't there for me. But the moment that I really appreciated was really close to her coming out. I was so I was walking the teepee in a circle. And every time that I would have a contraction, I would just, like, hold on to one of the poles and squat down and, like, cut like, hang from it. And I love that, like, rhythmic just, like, walking the circle. It was such a beautiful place to give birth. And same thing, like, the waters broke on the but it was, like, on the earth, which is really cool. And there's, like, this whole, like, flower field where the teepee used to be, where her like, where she was born, or this, like, little, like, circle of poppies. So, anyway.
Speaker 3
That's
Speaker 4
cute. Yeah. So I, the women who were outside of the teepee were singing, and I just remember like, I wasn't tuned in to the fact that anyone was out there until there was this moment where I'm walking and I'm stopping and, like, being with the surges, and I hear this just light, gentle tapping of rain on the teepee canvas with the background of these women's voices. Mhmm. And they're singing this song that they learned in the metrona, and the verse that I hear is, it's like, so birth my sister's birth. Mhmm.
Speaker 5
Draw your strength up from the earth. For how you birth is what you are. And you're wise in the ways of the woman by far.
Speaker 3
Wow. So
Speaker 4
I had never heard that song until that moment, and then I'm stuck in it. And I'm hearing these there's, like, chorus of my friend of these women singing this to me while, like, my daughter is about to come out, and it was just, like, the most beautiful euphoric feeling that I've really ever had. Like, that that was just it was incredible. And then I felt like I was getting really close, and so I, yeah, rang my little bell, and my partner came in. I love it. He came in and brought my son, and I didn't ask him to do this, but he actually just stood way back, my partner, and snapped some pictures from my phone. And those are the pictures that I sent you a couple years ago. And my son who is eighteen months, like, was so present, and he, her head emerged out of me. And there's this picture where he's just standing there and he's pointing to her head, and he's just saying, baby, baby, baby. And he was just like he was basically like the midwife. Well, he's just like right there, like, ready to receive her. And my partner was standing back taking photos. And I was really grateful he did because those are so precious to me to see, Banyan, like, welcoming his sister into the world, and they have such a karmic connection. They have each other's half birthdays. Oh, cute. Yeah. So,
Speaker 5
And
Speaker 3
is her name Poppy?
Speaker 4
Her name is Maple. Oh, cute. Yeah. Banyan and Maple, my little puppy.
Speaker 3
Did you name all your kids trees?
Speaker 4
I did and not the last one. So I can and actually, I didn't name so because I free birthed and I, like, didn't have to do a birth certificate or anything, I didn't name my kids for a long time. Like how long? Banyan, I gave him his name at his first birthday. What? Yeah. And actually him. We called him Boo Boo. Oh my god. So funny because they would be like, what's your baby's name? And I just feel like, Boo Boo.
Speaker 3
Boo Boo. I named him Boo Boo.
Speaker 5
But, we, Shavon,
Speaker 4
my friend who was there at his birth, said that she had heard of people, like, waiting and just feeling it out. And so I did that, and we had this fun, like, naming ceremony at his first birthday. And, I know his name for a while before that, but I really, like I actually also did you you mentioned, like, you kinda came into a new family name, and I did that too. I had a dream that his last name was Hearth, and then I ended up taking on that name too, and that's, like, our whole family name. And,
Speaker 3
Did did the partner that you're no longer with, does he also have that last name?
Speaker 4
Yeah. He took on that last name. Not legally, but he, like Okay. He he joined the matriarchy. So, and so yeah. So, and then with Maple, I also we we also did a naming ceremony for her at her first birthday, but I didn't even catch any wind of her name until she was, like, six months old. Wow. Which called her? Idea. What did we call her? We just called her baby girl. Oh my god. Very original. Baby girl. Oh. Was
Speaker 3
it hard to get a birth certificate waiting that long?
Speaker 4
So okay. I was very in the the sovereign citizens camp at that time and, was very on the fence of whether or not I was going to get them or if I was gonna wait until they were older and could choose. And, and so I didn't get their either of theirs. But I've had I've done, like, the whole paperwork process for the delayed birth certificates. And, I think it's gonna be a fairly straightforward thing. I know a couple other people who've done it, And I'm planning to do it this year because with my third, I did I did we did just get hers.
Speaker 3
So you didn't get birth certificates, but you're going to now?
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'm going to now. They're, nine and eleven, and I think that, yeah, it's gonna
Speaker 3
Okay. Two follow-up questions real quick. So Yeah. That would also mean they don't have socials?
Speaker 5
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
And so forgive my ignorance, but does that mean you haven't traveled with them?
Speaker 4
That means they can travel domestically. Like, they can go on a flight in the US, but they can't and I tried so I know one family who, like, was able to somehow get passport a passport for their baby without the social and birth certificate. And I thought that I could do that, but I tried to do it, and it wasn't it wasn't gonna work. So
Speaker 3
What changed for you that you weren't gonna do it and now you are?
Speaker 4
I just over, you know, the last, like, eleven years since I made that decision with them, because they were very close to eighteen months apart, I just realized, like, I'm not sure that the pros are weighing out the cons. Like, I haven't been able to claim them on taxes. I haven't, like
Speaker 3
Oh, dear.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Like, it's and I'm just, like, is this really worth it? And I think that I was doing it in, like, a protective way of, like, I don't need to get my kids in the system right away, and they can get in there later. But I did make sure to get, like, a, like, proof of pregnancy, like, forms and stuff like that and got my paperwork so that I would have it so that it would be easier when I was ready to get it. So, yeah, I I just this time, I'm like, I don't I don't think that I need to do that, and I feel ready to get get them for my older kids.
Speaker 3
There's been a there's there's a lot it's a question I get a lot. There's a lot of interest Yeah. In my community around it. And I'm not an expert on it because I did choose to get it because I pretty much was like, the juice is worth the squeeze. Like Yeah. The benefits that my kids slash I get from documenting them and registering them
Speaker 5
Yeah.
Speaker 3
Is worth it. Also, I do live in the system. Like Yeah. Like you just said, like, kinda the irony is, like, the paying taxes. Like Yeah. I pay taxes. My I'm I'm here. I'm here participating in this society, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
Speaker 4
Yeah. You
Speaker 3
know, the whole free birth thing and and, you know, it's like it's like pick and choose, you know, not just pick and choose your battles, but also what's that terrible expression? I I wish I knew a better one, but, like, not throwing the baby out with
Speaker 4
the bathwater. It's a terrible expression especially with
Speaker 3
this podcast.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
But, like, there's lots of wonderful aspects of Right. The society I choose to live inside of. You know? And there is a give take.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I think that at that phase in my life, I just didn't know if I was, like, going off grid and, like, what things were gonna be like. Like, I just and I was new at parenting, so I was just, like, kinda leaning toward more towards, like, that, that radical way. But Mhmm. Now I have a business and I filed that success and, like, you know. So I think I was just kind of young and, like, trying to Mhmm. Get free. And, to me, that just felt like the right thing at that time. And in hindsight, I'm like, I probably should've just gotten got the things then rather than having to do it now. And when I just recently went me and my partner just recently went and got, the birth certificate and social for our seven month old daughter, and it was so chill and, like, not as intimidating or weird as I thought. You're, like,
Speaker 3
while I'm here, could I get a three fur? I actually have these other older kids.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I told them. I was like, so do y'all do delayed birth certificates? And they were like, sorry. We can't do that here. You gotta go to the the capital. Like so I'm gonna be on that journey. But I I feel good about that it'll be fair. I've done all the paperwork. I just hit just send it in. I mean,
Speaker 3
they want you to do it. Yeah. Exactly. If you want to do it, I'm sure.
Speaker 4
They're gonna help me find a way. Yeah.
Speaker 3
Okay. So then big changes between the second and the third. Yeah. We have whole new partners in town. So what what happens
Speaker 4
for that? So, I yeah. A cup like, right after my baby was born, I started Gotta Ski, and that really helped me get out of that relationship and us into a good co parenting dynamic because that was just not a relationship I was really gonna thrive in. And and then what like, I mean, my Maple is nine years apart from my new baby, so I had a big window there. And I definitely, for a while, was like, I would love to have have that experience of having a baby with somebody that I actually wanna be with and that I love and because I didn't get to have that the first time. I had these, like, amazing birth experiences and, like, postpartum support and community and, like, very beautiful mothering journey, but things with my partner, you know, just it was like I didn't I didn't have there was something that I wasn't getting the experience of in that. And so I, yeah, got together with my current partner a little over two years ago, and he's a little younger. And I was, like, getting I'm I'm about to turn forty and so, like, you know, he asked me, do you wanna have well, actually okay. So Maple, the first time that she met him, we're all having dinner, and he and I just we were newly dating. And he and I have been dating for, like, a couple months, and, she looks across the table at me and she says, mom, do you wanna have more kids? And she had never this was not a conversation that we were talking about
Speaker 3
at all. Like seven.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And she's seven and he's there for the first time and I'm kind of embarrassed because I'm like, oh my gosh, We're just newly getting to know each other and this is not, like, something that I'm gonna
Speaker 3
be doing at the moment.
Speaker 4
And so she asked that and I was like, oh, why do you ask? I don't know. And, you know, there was something in my heart that was really like, yeah. I would love to have another baby or two, like, with somebody that I'm stoked to be with. And, and so then she kept asking, like, when he would come around, she would ask him if he wanted to have kids. She was like, really on the case. And then we started talking about it, and then I was getting pretty clear hits that I wanted yeah. That I was ready. And, he was still, like, I don't know. I'm trying to figure it out, but, we conceived and it the due date was, like, a day apart from Maples, like, kinda thing. And Maples was like, the baby's gonna come on my birthday.
Speaker 3
Aw.
Speaker 4
And everybody was like, are
Speaker 5
you sure you want the
Speaker 4
baby to come on your birthday? Don't you want your own? And she's like, she's a Cancer and she's like so nurturing and she's like, no. No. No. This is my baby. I called this baby in. Like, this baby is coming on my birthday.
Speaker 3
Yep.
Speaker 4
And, sure enough, her sister she had a baby sister on her birthday.
Speaker 3
Wow.
Speaker 4
And I remember my partner just told me the other day that I was, like, deep in labor, and I looked at him and I was like, Maple's such a witch while I was in it because I realized, like, it's her day.
Speaker 3
It's her baby too.
Speaker 4
It's her baby. And so yeah. So they have the same birthday and then they have they share a half birthday half birthday with her.
Speaker 3
That's a trip.
Speaker 4
It's so cool. So, anyway, so this time, yeah, my partner definitely didn't have any birth experience or rebirth, like, an awareness, but he knew that I had done that with my other two, and he was, like, super onboarded. Yeah. Trusting of my decision. And, he had a little bit of anxiety coming up when it was getting closer to the birth of, like, holding that role and that responsibility. And he he's really he, like, facilitates men's circles and is, like, deep in men's work stuff. And so, he has a lot of support there, and he asked me if his, like, bro, like, his best guy could just, like, be on the land to support him, but not me. And I was like, I
Speaker 5
don't know. What?
Speaker 4
As long as he yeah. He was like I was like, as long as he can just, like, really stay out of the space and, because he wanted I think he was like, I don't
Speaker 3
text him.
Speaker 4
Oh my god. Okay. Wait a minute. The birth is not him, but that's okay.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 4
This is somebody who, like, I felt really comfortable with and I was like, yeah. If he can, like, hold the space and not be in our space at all, but, like, just be tending a fire, like, over on the land over there, then, I'm fine if you wanna have, like, someone here. He just I think my party was
Speaker 3
Did you just birth in, like, a boring old house this time?
Speaker 4
So this time, yeah, I really would have loved to birth in a teepee again, but we we live on, like, a cliff like, the side of a mountain. And so, there's there was no flat space. So we live in a yurt. Our yurt is, like, on the edge of the mountain kinda thing, and then we built right up until, like, literally this cabin that I'm in right now, is next to our yard, and it's our bedroom or we call it the nest because we were building it as I was pregnant, and it was complete like, we moved our bed in the day before I went into labor. So we were in this this is like our birthing nest that I'm in right now and, yeah, of just a boring, old, brand new cabin. And I, let's see. What are some pieces? So he really he was, like, feeling some nervousness and just wanted, like, someone else, like, that he feels, like, he could, like, fall into if he was having a hard time or something. And I was like, okay. That's fine. I trust it's our friend, Hunter. I was like, I trust him to to, like, hold it down and be be over there. And, so mostly, it was just us, and I really with him, it's interesting, like, with my other partner, with the second time, I was like, I don't even really want you around. Like, I really wanna be in my own field where my relationship with my partner now is, like, so much more intimate, and I really trust him. He's held, like, immaculate space for me going through, like, deep processes before, and I just know that, like, I love having him there. And so I really trusted him to be, like, right there and, like, with me. And so, yeah. So it was, like, a very way more sensual, like, kissing and just, like, being we, like, had this whole setup, this whole birth altar and candles and music, and it was just, like, a very, more, like, I would say, romantic experience. And it and I never even saw his friend, Hunter, really. Like, he was outside, like, tending a fire, like, away from us, and he, like, he wasn't really in the space at all. And, yeah, and so that labor that process was, like, twenty two hours, which is my shortest yet. I'm I'm like, what is with us? And same thing, like, oh, one thing I didn't share about Maple's birth, which I could send you a a gory picture, is that at some point, I felt this little bubble. Like, I never check myself or put my fingers in there or anything during any of my births or do any stuff like that. But I, at some point, just, like, touched down there and I felt this little bubble and I told her dad I ring my bell and I told her dad and he came in and he's like, oh my gosh. And he takes a picture and it looks like I'm birthing a pearl because the bag of waters is like it's like this translucent white, beautiful bubble coming out. And he's like, it looks like you're birthing a pearl.
Speaker 3
Aw. Which is
Speaker 4
yeah. And then that ends up happening again this time where I, like, felt down there and felt something, and I was like, oh, yeah. I know what this is. And we took I took a selfie picture of it, and this time it was more of, like, a blue translucent bubble. And then very shortly after that, my water broke, and then it was probably about two hours until she came out. And I, towards the end, was very getting very tired. And so I was kinda, like, on my ass, just, like, on the sheepskin rug on the floor, and I was tired. And I was kinda, like, pretty over it. And, and then my partner had hung a a a sheet from the I'm sitting up in a loft. So, like, from the beam that the loft is on, he hung a sheet. And, at one point, he was like, said something like, do you wanna get up? And I was like, yes. I definitely have to get up. I know that this baby wants to come out. I'm just resisting it. I'm, like, trying to just, like, buckle down on the floor. And so I got up and I walk over to the sheet to go hang on it and squat. And he starts heading for the door to go, like, switch out the laundry or something, and I'm like, no. Don't leave. Catch the baby. He was just not expecting that I was that close, and he, like, kind of dives back over and because, and I wasn't even expecting this at all. I don't even know why. So I think it was just instinctual that I was, like because I was holding on. Like, I I was, like, holding on the sheet like that and squatting. And, she just flew out of me in one swoop, which was the first time that's happened normally. Like, their heads come out and they're it's like a slower process. But she just shot out like a slippery rocket and he caught her. So I was really glad that because I was like, I couldn't I love the idea of catching my own like, women catching their own babies and I'm all scared physically, like, don't know.
Speaker 3
I don't understand.
Speaker 4
I don't understand either. And so I've never yeah. So it was really great to just be able to, like, hang and squat and then she just, like, slipped right out into his hands and, he just immediately burst into tears. And he said, like, for him, it was, like, when her body, like, came into his hands that he just, like, had this access to all of life and this, like, portal that is, like, it was pretty undescribable, but it was just, like, a very, very magical moment for him. And you could see it in him. Like, he was just instantly crying and, such a beautiful I think, like, a really beautiful imprint on, like, their bonds. And then immediately, like, you know, she was with me in nursing and, yeah, it was it was epic. And then same thing. I mean, because I've lived in this area now and have all these connections, we just had, like, a really amazing postpartum. I feel like the best I've had. You know? I had I've had it good, like, all three times, but this was, just so much support and sweetness and got to really do it well.
Speaker 3
So was Maple bummed she didn't get to be at the birth?
Speaker 4
You know, I asked them if they wanted to be. I gave them the option, and they didn't for some reason. Like, they were like, no. We're okay. Just call us when the baby comes out and we'll come. And, they just happened to be at their dad's when it happened, and so they weren't even here. And, I think it was, yeah, fine that way for me. Like, I like the intimacy of just, like, me and my partner and, yeah. And they I if they had wanted to, then I would have loved to welcome them there, but they weren't they weren't really, like they were, like, we wanna just be right there. So they were they came over pretty much right away and saw her. And then so with this one's name, everybody was like, yeah. Is it gonna be another tree? And I was like, I don't know. It's not really I just kinda Is she even gonna get a name? Yeah. That's the first question. Totally. So, yeah, we waited. It was probably, like, a couple months, and I I had a pretty strong intuition that her name was gonna come to my partner even though my other ones, like, came through me and the like, it was it was very much me that did it. I just was kinda like, I'm gonna wait and see what comes through him. And then if I don't like it, then I'll just veto and Sounds good. And so I, yeah, one day he was just, like, washing dishes or whatever in the yard, and he comes out and he's like, I just had this name just drop in, like, out of nowhere. And, I was like, what is it? And he says marrow, like, the marrow bone. And I just instantly, like, teared up at head shells, and I was like, that's such a deep, powerful, beautiful name, and let's just, like, sit with it. And, he looked up the etymology. It was just, like, really such a beautiful beautiful name and not anything that I'd ever heard of. And, and I could tell that it, like, came, like, in a way that wasn't from him. He was just like, woah. This just came. And I, and, yeah, I just kinda, like we kept looking at her over the next few weeks and just, like, trying it on and asking if there was any other name and, like, nothing else was there, and it was just so clear.
Speaker 3
So if it was like what if it was like, I just got the name. Like, it just landed, and you're like, what? And and he's like he's like, Kathy.
Speaker 4
Right. It's not yet. Just like it's
Speaker 3
a really average American name. Totally. Nope. That wouldn't happen.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I would have just been like, no. No way. He had No.
Speaker 3
I'm not hating on Kathy's. That's a maternal maternal family name for for my lineage.
Speaker 4
Yeah. But, yeah, like, not something like banning
Speaker 3
a control. Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. I know. What was funny when we were when she was an infant and we didn't have a name yet and people would ask us what the name is, and he would very seriously look at them and say, Bile.
Speaker 3
And what would they do?
Speaker 4
They were just like, oh, cool. Like, not, like, active. Or or if they knew his personality, they would be like, whatever. What's her name? So, yeah, there was a lot of joking around, like, weird names and stuff. But
Speaker 3
So did he take the the hearth last name?
Speaker 4
He is not. He was very open to her having my, like, you know, my last our family. Yeah. Totally. So that wasn't an issue for him at all, but he hasn't, like, taken that on, which is interesting. Maybe I don't know. He's gonna listen to this, so we'll see.
Speaker 3
Wait. So is your legal last name, Hurst?
Speaker 4
No. It's not. So I haven't changed it legally. But now so, really, technically, Mero is the first one who has the legal last name for us because my other two, their birth certificates are, like, pending, so they will. And then I haven't changed it legally. And who knows? Maybe maybe at some point, that will happen for him, but he's not worried about it, and he's happy with her having the same last name as me.
Speaker 3
And If you guys do a legal if you do a legal marriage, you can get your last names changed for free Yeah. Versus We Like, it's, like, five hundred bucks or something to do
Speaker 4
it Right.
Speaker 3
On your own?
Speaker 4
Yeah. We're talking about marriage at some point in ceremony and, like, do we want a legal do we wanna do a legal thing or not or whatever? And so that's, like, still we're kinda doing things backwards.
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's all good. There's no way. There's no one way. Right. You started you started the whole episode saying you were on the rebel path.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So tell us
Speaker 3
before we close out, tell us about this, you know, cool new program you're cooking up and where women can find you.
Speaker 4
Yeah. So yeah. So for the last twelve years since I've been on this path, I've pretty much been just, sharing and teaching and mentoring, like, anybody who will listen and friends along the way, and I've turned several friends onto the free birth path or taught people about, just like rant like, attachment parenting values. And, recently and I've known for a while that this really feels like my soul work. And, now that my business, Goddess Key, feels a little more, like, stable, and I don't have to tend to that as much. And I have this new baby. I have a lot of excitement into putting some more energy into this work. So I'm starting a website just under my name, Marian Hearth. And I also have an Instagram under that same name. And I'm launching a thirteen week group container that, basically just supports people in navigating decisions through, like, early accepting into motherhood and that initiation. So there will be, lots of stuff around attachment parenting and, obviously, free birth stuff. And I'm just gonna be sharing all the things like breastfeeding, mentorship, and, co sleeping, elimination communication. I did zero diapers on my last two babies. Nice. Yeah. And I tried it with my first and, like, kind of half assed it a little bit and also did cloth diapers, but with my last two, they've never they never wore a diaper from birth.
Speaker 3
Okay. That's that's amazing.
Speaker 4
Thanks. I know this. Yeah. It's been birth? Yeah. From birth. I never ever put a diaper on Maple or Meryl. And Meryl's seven months in, like, going on the potty. Like, we just have a little potty and put her on.
Speaker 3
Take a beat there real quick. So Yeah. Does obviously, different ages, like, they do different stuff, but she's never been in a diaper. Okay. So be honest. How often does she shit and piss on you? Be honest.
Speaker 5
Yeah. And
Speaker 3
and, like, is there any sort of queuing that's going on at seven months?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. So Or is
Speaker 3
it mostly preventative?
Speaker 4
It's so it's kind of a mixture of both. So I I noticed at birth really early on, like, right out out of the womb, the babies will start to squirm and, like, you know, when they have to pee or they have to eliminate, they'll get all squirmy and fussy, and so you can kinda tell. Mhmm. But then so it's still like that. Like, she'll kick and kinda squirm, but then, also, we know her rhythm. So, like, right after she nurses, I know she's gonna pee a couple times. Like and, pooping, she went through a phase. Like, when she was an infant, it was very sporadic and random. So it was like, okay. We're just she's squirting every time she pees kinda thing. But then that leveled out after a couple months and we, went through a nice phase where she would only poop in the morning right when she woke up. Yeah. So, like, right when she woke up, put her on the potty, she'd poop, and then the rest of the day is just pee. Lately, we've had a couple of, like, a couple surprises. And with e c, it just, like, there's ebbs and flows with the whole thing, and you just kinda gotta ride it out. But I can honestly say because I've cloth diapered my first that, like, I got pooped on anyway, like, the blowout diapers or whatever. Not like like, I still there was still, like, crazy messy, like, blow out diaper situations when I was diapering, so not anything, like, more crazy than that. And,
Speaker 3
Well, arguably, a diaper the poop's going in the diaper. Not
Speaker 4
Well, I don't know. Maybe I just have, like, not very good cloth diapers because I feel like it would just, like, come out of the thighs.
Speaker 3
Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. I've only ever known one other woman who this woman, Amanda, who's a free birther in California, who I met her daughter, who's, like, maybe four months old or something. And she just pulled her out of the car seat with no diaper, and it was this little baby who's never had a diaper on her and her little tiny butt in her jumper because there was no diaper and was like, wow.
Speaker 4
Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we're doing. And it worked really well with Maple. Like, you know, I found that it wasn't really any more work than diapering. It just requires you to be more present in the moment and you have to be, like, more on it in that moment. We're at so it's kind of like you you do it. It's like because, Bam, like, he would never stay in a wet diaper. So as soon as his diaper was wet, I had to change him anyway. So I'm really just, like, putting that effort ahead of the thing and just doing it beforehand. And, so now I we were making sounds for her to cue her to go, but now she just knows. Like, I just set her on the potty and she knows or if I hold her in that position with my hands under her thighs and I just say pee, she just
Speaker 3
Hey, baby.
Speaker 4
Pees. And now yeah. And so now I'm starting to teach her sign language. I'm doing, like, the potty sign when I go. So that pretty soon, she'll be able to do that and let me know when she wants to go to the potty.
Speaker 3
I feel like we were doing really good with our boy until he started walking. And then, like Yeah. It's just a whole new world with the walking, and he's so
Speaker 4
On the
Speaker 3
move. You know? Yeah. Doing his thing. I mean, the poop we have, he he's same thing. He just wakes up, poops in the potty. That's fine. That's not an issue. But when we do have the random later in the day poops, there's no, like, he Yeah. There it's completely where whereas, Suniye, my daughter, at the same age, she would come over and get us and be like, and, like, she did not want to poop in her diaper. Yeah. Sawyer just seems like he could care less even though we've done all the same stuff.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah. They're all little different too. They're really Yeah.
Speaker 3
The name of your episode?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Don't really. I, yeah, it's one thing I do notice though with doing the EC from birth is that they tend to have like, there's I remember learning, like, there's this whole, like, urinary sphincter muscle that when babies just go in diapers all the time and they're not having to kinda contract and hold it until they get to the potty, then they start to lose the tone in that. And then they they don't have as much muscle tone there. And so then they're more likely to kinda just go Totally. Uncontrollably. And so when you do it like, I noticed for her, you know, she'll hold like, she'll be, like, you know, holding it until she, needs to go. And she won't, you know, just, like, hold it forever if we're not Of course. Available. She'll just go. But, like, so I think that I think it can help it to do it pretty consistently and from the from the get go. Yeah. You do really have to be on it. And you have to have, like you know, it'd be hard to do it if I was just doing it myself and my partner wasn't on board or a president or somebody like, other people weren't helping with it. So That's constant. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm gonna do, like, a whole thirteen week
Speaker 3
Cool.
Speaker 4
Group that each week will, like, really dig into different topics, and this is one of them. And then, you know, birth my whole, like I don't I think that there's a lot of people who aren't ready to free birth or maybe it's, like, not for them yet. But, like, my whole teaching and philosophy is that, kinda thinking of free birth as the default. Like, everyone should learn about free birth and know about this about how birth works and, like, this whole thing be cut even if they're having gonna have, like, a plan to go somewhere else or to whatever birth center or whatever.
Speaker 3
Is basically just, like, not fucking it up.
Speaker 4
Yeah. It's like
Speaker 3
biological birth
Speaker 4
Right.
Speaker 3
It's basically free birth.
Speaker 4
Yeah.
Speaker 3
And then how much do you wanna, like, intervene and fuck it up?
Speaker 4
Exactly. And I think that I I've noticed I've heard a lot of stories about people's, like, midwives, like, being stuck in traffic or people, like, on their way to the hospital house. Or maybe and, like, you have to first learn about just, like, the basic biological birth process and be ready to take self responsibility. And and then, like, you know, are
Speaker 3
ready to do.
Speaker 4
Right. And so I wanna teach that. I wanna, like, talk about that, like, the self responsibility that has to come first before you even start thinking about, like, a birth team or who you're gonna invite or who you have there because, all of a
Speaker 3
sudden confused about the concepts of safety and risk and responsibility and outsourcing. And, you know, again, like we said at the beginning, people are so afraid and and ignorant. You know, the thing that's interesting about self responsibility is, like, you can think you're gonna get out of it by hiring a provider, but let's say in a in an average birth experience in the hospital That's right. You're abused. You are drugged up. Your baby's born on drugs. Your baby's separated from you. You have, trauma, you know, in inherent to the experience. Who's living with that? Your doctor that just abused you and cut you and drugged you up goes home. You know, you and your baby are living with that. So do you get out of it even when you, like, think you can get out of it? Because you still have to live with the story that you gave your baby and the outsourcing and all that. So it kinda goes in this interesting spin of, like because I've had many, many mothers contact me and be like, I'm not ready to take responsibility for my birth. Yeah. I'm like, okay. Great. Except that you're the only one living your life. And so
Speaker 4
Ultimately, it is your responsibility.
Speaker 3
Well, and, like, even you you do you just don't get out of it, ready or not. You don't get out of it.
Speaker 4
Yeah. And what I've seen over the years, actually, you know, when I entered this path, choosing a free birth for myself, I wasn't necessarily thinking that I was gonna start, like, reaching it to the world. I was just, like, this is what's right for me. But the further that I get on this path and the more experiences I have with my own birth stories, but mostly with hearing other people's birth stories, it actually has fueled me to be like, wow. This is so essential to learn this stuff because I I live in a very crunchy alternative, like, subculture, and home birth is very the norm here. And I could tell you at least half of the home birth stories that I hear end up in the hospital.
Speaker 3
Of course.
Speaker 4
And that's probably general. Honestly, it's probably more like three quarters of them end up in the hospital. Of course.
Speaker 3
Well, but they're not divorced. They're medical midwife supervised managed.
Speaker 4
Exactly. And what I hear in those stories all the time is the responsibility being on the other people that were there. Like, the the the stories are always, like, and then they made me do this, and they did and it was their it was other people's fault that I had this experience and so I'm like, my whole thing is like, we have to change the language. We have to totally, like, relanguage how we talk about birth experiences and whose responsibilities and all of that.
Speaker 3
You'll change the language when you grow up.
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3
The language, I don't know if the language really comes first. I think it's it's growing up comes first because saying things like they I had to, and they made me is what a baby says. That's what a little four year old says. A grown ass woman doesn't speak that way.
Speaker 4
Right. Totally. And, like, I feel like that for me and I don't know why, but for some reason, when I was pregnant with my son and I started learning these things, like, I was making that transition from maiden to mother to, like, coming into I'm now I'm now the parent and I don't have to listen to what my parents are gonna tell me to do about this. Because if I, like, was still in my child self, then I would have wanted to appease my mom or my dad and do it the way that they wanted have wanted me to do it or society. And but because I was like, okay. Now, like, I have this child in my womb, I'm I'm now responsible to making, like, decisions that are not and nobody else can make those for me. And I think that's a huge thing that a lot of people miss. And I see it all the time, not just in birth, but, like, in parenting. Like, lots of people, you know, oh, I don't like it that my kids are, like, on these iPads all the time and playing with toy guns. And I'm like, well, why
Speaker 3
are they?
Speaker 4
And they're like, because their grandparents gave it to them for kids. To.
Speaker 2
I don't know how to eat a
Speaker 3
meal without my kid being screened.
Speaker 4
Right. And I'm like, okay. Well, you have to yeah. Like, when did you actually make that shift to, like, you're the parent? Your society is not your child's parent. Your grand the grandparents aren't their child's parent. You're the parent.
Speaker 3
So Or are they? Yeah.
Speaker 4
Yeah. Okay. I have to go. Like yeah. Yeah. Because that's my whole mission is I'm like, I wanna help people, like, step into that. Yeah. Yeah. And I wanna help people before they're pregnant, but Grow. Yes. Exactly. And then, also, before they're pregnant, they're pregnant.
Speaker 3
If you're listening and you know that there are parts of you that are still a child and you're ready to grow up because you're becoming a mom or you already are a mom, check out Marian's work. Join her container.
Speaker 5
Mhmm.
Speaker 3
Thank you. Instagram. Thank you so much. Love the stories. I'm so excited to meet you and your daughters
Speaker 4
this summer. Yeah. Me too. Thanks for this conversation. It was super fun.
Speaker 2
I hope you enjoyed the show today. You can support this podcast by donating to it on free birth society dot com and leaving an awesome review on whatever platform you listen on. The more reviews, the more visibility the show gets, so let's spread the word of Sovereign Birth. We've always got a lot going on at Free Birth Society, and you can find out about all of it at free birth society dot com, at free birth society on Instagram, and opt in to my newsletter below in the show notes. We offer courses on free birth, authentic midwifery, and the blood mysteries, as well as one on one coaching, in person retreats, and, of course, our annual women's festival. Our exclusive vetted private membership is definitely something to check out if you're looking for a community of wise sisters. Together, we rise. We must speak our stories, claim our lives, and support one another. This is the living revolution, and I am so grateful to be in it with all of you. I'll leave you with our epic Free Birth Society theme song, Wild Woman by Aruba Red.
Speaker 6
I honor you for the wisdom you held, the ancient traditions of plant medicine and womb magic. I feel the spirit of the ancestors as I place my hands upon my belly. This sacred portal will be honored, eons upon light beams of survival, withstanding the eradication of our burning our wild women to paralyzing us and drugging our babes. Strapped down in a clinical white bed drying up the milk from our breasts, keep your needles. My family will never again be doomed to chase those dragons all prison. We reject your fear. We choose love. Everything with intention. Death, ascension. I will fly and bring her back from the star.
Speaker 7
To the star. From you, I will not hide. They could not bend your spirit away, so please teach me your way. I'm begging to learn from you while I'm running. I still run, run, run, run, run.
